That cop said we can just like bust people and stuff. Because we're like... Petifans? Yeah, cool. We're petifans now. Beware the long arm of butthead. Beware the long wiener of beaver. Coming to you from beautiful Hubsky, New York, this is the Slam Phil Podcast, the show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett, here with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. Yep. And you're on camera this time, and you're making faces at me, trying to get me to strip in the intro. I'm trying to show off the new game room. He's got a Batman 66 back there. And this is episode 153, Clusterbuck 3. 3. Season of the Witch. Does anyone get that reference? No. I say to search for pinball. No. Season of the Witch. It matches Halloween. Halloween. Halloween 3. Come on. Season of the Witch. We do have some famous friends and fans of the group. I'm going to first bring up the one who just talked before, Mr. Franchi. Hello, Mr. Franchi. How are you today? Excellent. Sorry. I couldn't resist the trivia question. His co-host with him, Dr. Pin. I will call him. I call him Mr. Penn because he really is the Mr. to the beautiful Mrs. Penn. My best friend. Hello, Dr. Penn and Mrs. Penn. I think that – Hello. There we go. They forgot the one you – Hi, Plantil. Hi, Plantil. Hello. We have some other guy that does a podcast with you, Ron. Oh, my God. I don't know how he even puts up with you like I have. The incredible David Dennis. The guy who finished in the top six in the trivia contest at Expo. First time. First time I've ever done that. There were a couple of examples where I literally guessed and made my way through, but you and Zach really killed it on that thing. But thank you for such a warm introduction. I'm glad that I could class the joint up here a bit. Dave, did you rent an office to do this? Actually, this is a Zoom background. This is a Zoom background. That's an incredible Zoom background. It is. It's beautiful. There's a whole lot of nothing going on there. Oh, yes. Perfect. All I have is a bunch of financial books back here and a lightsaber because I'm classy. It's the anti-Francie room. Francie's house is like a TGI Fridays of cool pop culture shit. Yeah, it's like a five-year-old threw up in his background. Put Baby Yoda back there. Baby Yoda back there and everything. I'm sure they're going through everybody. Who else do we have on? We have Zach, our world-famous Zach. David Dennis will be coming on eventually. No, he is here. The other David. The Dennis Crease will be coming on. We have the pinball princess. Yo. Yo. That's all. Jesus Christ. Hi. We're competing for shortest intro. Yes. I know. And we have somebody we competed against, Ron. Oh, yes. That is correct. Yell out, Mr. Computer. I want to hear how he loves the – he's actually – he has – I've been listening to their podcast more and more lately. I have a little bit – you know, I have so much free time now. I listen to every frigging podcast. But theirs has really grabbed me, the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. Where has it grabbed you? Everywhere it can. Okay. One only came on so far, so I'm a little disappointed with that. Well, you got Scott. I talked to Josh, and he's going to be coming on a little later. But, yes, you get the co-host, not the host. The better half. No, we get the better half because the co-host is always better than the host. I don't have to do the editing, so it's easier. Never do it. Never will. Never done it. Anybody else we have missed so far? Anybody else we have missed? Yeah. Introductions with. It sounded wrong, but I guess it's right. It is right. It sounded wrong. Yeah, just say the weirdest anyone else we have missed. Is that correct? Okay. Never mind. Hello. See, notice how he tries to make me look bad. You just talk weird. No one talks like, no one makes these expressions you do. It's Bruce-isms. Yes, they are Bruce-isms. So, everyone, what do you want to talk about in pinball today? Guns and roses. I want to talk about Puny Factory. Talk about Puny Factory. Puny Factory. Puny Factory, Rob. That barely qualifies as pinball. I want to talk about what Steve Ritchie is doing. Led Zeppelin? Did you guys see the hair? Yep, the hair was awesome. Yeah. Well, let's go over the issues with JJP Playfields. Well, how about Stern Playfields? It ain't much better than what I see. How about my Gottlieb Playfield from 1982? Well, it's Gottlieb. They didn't care. They didn't care at all. God. But as everyone looked on Pinside for the big chip. Is that the call? Is that what the thread is called? The big chip? The Guns N' Roses with a probably about three-quarters of an inch to three-quarters of an inch chip right on the play field. Yeah, it's not too good. Don't we need to come up with like a term for this? Like it's got to be better than Chipgate or the play field affair. We need some sort of scandal name. Mirco sucks. I think that's reasonable. So wait a minute, so it's Mirco does their playtools? Yes. So wouldn't it just be the Mirco affair? Well, how many of them have had many issues? This is now the third JJP pinball machine or fourth that have had issues? I think they started with Pirates. I thought it started with Dialed In. My Dialed In is just fine. You wouldn't know that, Bruce. It's the greatest game ever. Greatest theme, anyway. Greatest theme. What's the story with Stern? So does Stern have a different plate field manufacturer than J.J.P.? They actually have, I think, two right now. Ooh. And who are they, Mr. Inside? I know one, but unfortunately, I still have... Contacts? Yeah. And you can't give them up? Okay. I cannot give them up. I do know one, and I still know the person who works there. I cannot confirm nor deny. It's not Mirko. No, no, no. Okay, okay. During that Jack Danger video where they did the tour, weren't they manufacturing some of them in-house? That's what I thought. They were, but I don't think they were getting the quality that they expected. And I think they had the time resources at the time. You know, playfields are tricky, and now they're doing direct playfields with inkjet. It's a little more fun. But unfortunately, I know the manufacturer, the one company who makes the machines for them, and they're not that great. And that's all I'm going to say about that. Is it an issue that they just print them, clear coat them, and like five minutes later just start pounding components into them possibly? Yeah, I think they get a couple days at least out of it. There's a couple, maybe up to two weeks that they're sitting on those racks. Should it be longer? Who knows? Now, is this a problem with just pinball in general, where the velocity of the ball and the flipper strength has actually increased traumatically? So I've always thought if I play a 90s game, it seems kind of slow and floaty. But if you play a new game, it just seems to be rocket shipping across the play field. So I don't know if that increased velocity actually has an impact, especially when you get air balls and hitting posts. and you saw Ryan C.'s picture where it had the post that was gone by Slash head, and I was just wondering if that's something that could be going on. I don't want 90s games that you played. If you play my Johnny Mnemonic, you will find it's faster than any stern I have. Yeah, my AFM is smoking. Zach had mentioned that one, truly. Right, Zach? It's too fast. It is too fast. Actually, that is tearing itself apart, but the play field is still okay. Yeah. Everything except the ink is ripping apart. Yeah, that thing is, that AFM is the fastest. It's faster than brand new Chicago Gaming. I always thought it was interesting that how many companies use the Williams Flipper Mech now? You have Chicago Gaming. You have JJP. You have TNA. I was going to say Spooky. And there's another one. American uses it. But JJP doesn't use it the right way. Well, they all use the WPC Williams Flipper mech, but none of them feel like WPC Williams Flippers ever, which is kind of weird. But as far as back to what Scott said about speed, I mean, I think a properly maintained Williams game is as fast as any CERN. So I see some of the streams, I don't know, the Guns N' Roses I've seen were kind of, they seem floaty to me. Very. That's just, that's just compared to what I'm used to. Well, Zach's actually played one, so, Zach, what do you think? I mean, it played the exact same way that a stock dial didn't place. I don't have to say. Oh, bad. Okay, I understand. Oh. Floating. The flippers are weak. All the left shots feel weird. You know, that sort of thing. It has the same, like, left orbit and left ramp placement as dialed in, too, so it's like it's really noticeable. Like, it's definitely not a speed demon. I have found with Jersey Jack, at least, well, the one I own, I had to crank it all the way up to maximum pitch and then crank up the flipper power to almost max, and then it plays good to me. But that's a preference. Do you think rather than the gameplay itself that it really comes down to manufacturing process? Like, are they over-torquing posts? It's just, I think it's as simple as it's just a different clear coat. The diamond plate, add all the toxic stuff you can't use anymore in it, and it works better. I think it literally is as simple as that. Literally just the more poison you pour into the clear coat, the better the clear coat is. Well, also, they could use a probably better clear coat, but I think it would be cost prohibitive. It would probably cost way more and take longer, and they're not going to do that. Any chance they can contact Deep Root on their manufacturing abilities and their hammer test? Deep Root is happy to license their innovation. That's true. Has Mata Playfield yet? Where's the pin bar? I forgot. Don't mention Deep Root around Scott. He might go crazy. I never heard him go that crazy on a podcast before. Oh, yeah, I know. That was actually really good. Oh, my goodness. The play field doesn't come chipped, but it does come pre-dimpled. All playfields dimple, though. That's the funny thing. Everyone, oh, Williams don't dimple. Bullshit. My AFM is dimpled, so it doesn't look like it's dimpled. It's so dimpled it's a crater. Yeah. I talked to somebody about this whole thing, and they're a wood person. They said that you used to be able to treat the wood with formaldehyde or something, and they don't allow that anymore, and that's something that hardens the wood. That would also prevent a lot of these problems. Not the chipping, obviously, but the dimpling and whatnot. Plus, also, the ink that they're using now is not good with formaldehyde-based stuff because it is so eco-friendly or trying to become eco-friendly that actually does have chemical problems where they mix, and then they put the clear over it, we've actually seen on other products that we used to do, it would actually haze very badly. Interesting thing is I went to an XFL seminar with Pat Waller back in the mid-2000s. So this would have been when he was at Stern. Well, you are old. Yeah, thank you. And someone asked about, even then, they were asking about play field quality, comparing Stern to, like, the Williams playfields. And what Pat Waller said was that the wood that is used now, the wood that Williams used for their playfields was, like, the highest hardness level that you could use. I don't know what the unit of measure is there, but there is some kind of scale. And they used, like, above furniture grade quality wood for their playfields. And he seemed to say that, like, Stern doesn't do that, and you can't even really do that anymore. Like, it's not even available, what they used to use. And that's just the wood. That's even, I'm not even talking about clear coat, just the hardness of the wood itself. The layers are different, though, between. Oh, I can tell you, and they changed, they used to use, what is it, seven-layer ply? Yes. And then they went to nine-layer ply, which somehow is worse. I'm not a wood expert, but I guess that's not as good or something. At least that's what I've been told. like when I had my T3 if you pulled the playfield out and you looked at the plies on it and you pulled out say if I pull out Nerdy Harry or one of my Williams games, the cross section looked the same, like seven layer ply, they looked almost exactly the same the wood, and if you take out like my dead pool, it looks totally different, so they've totally changed the way the playfields are made that's another thing like we talked, one of our gimmicks was check your out hole like the first year of the podcast. If you notice, like, Bruce's little Lord of the Rings over there made in, what, 2003. I'm sure if you look at the outhaul of that, it has nowhere. And that game's been played a shit ton. Shit ton. If you go... Yeah, just check your outhaul there. Yeah, check your outhaul. Just check base right in there. If you go, if you will find, I don't know, a Deadpool or something that's been on location, or a Batman, or something that's been on location for, like, a year, you're going to see wear in the out-hole area. Yeah, it's just, yeah. I'm looking right at it right now. My Batman is chipped right at the out-hole. Yeah. Are the manufacturers, I know some of them are, like, around posts and things are putting less artwork on what's anticipating it to, like, to basically chip. It seems like they're not even anticipating it. Like, it seems to help somehow, you know, like, not having art. Everyone except J.J.P. now is putting no art around the posts that I've seen. They do pool. I think the crushing of the, you know, I think if it's going direct to wood or wood coloring, it's less stress than having art on it. It's just the weaker bond is the ink. That's the bond of the ink, so you're screwed. How about Spooky? They don't seem to have these. Well, except for my T&A, of course, which has chipping around almost every post. Well, like Alice Cooper, there's no art around the posts. Yeah. Yeah. They got away from it. So given where we are right now with the playfields as they are, hopefully they come up with a fix, but do you guys think that when you get a new in-box game, you should just immediately put washers around the posts or do something to help prevent this from being an issue moving forward? Is that like our new normal? If you get here, say that. Don't say that new normal crap word. But even if you don't see a pool on your shipping. The chip that says it drastically affects the player is purely cosmetic. I mean, that's kind of the question. is there's, if I buy a car, there's going to be natural wear and tear. You know, there's going to be scratches and scrapes. But chipping around the post, I guess if it's small, I don't really care. If it takes a 10-inch strip of my plate, then I care. Yeah, I got pooling around the Batman right here. I can show you. It's pooling around the bottom lower post. Do I care? No. It's a pinball machine. When it takes away beautiful Christopher Franchi's art, that's when I get pissed. But if you see a chip there, what would you do, Bruce, to fix that? Would you put a washer over it, or would you re-clear it? I'll try to actually clear it with just a small heat, you know, try to bond it and clear it to the wood that's underneath and live with it for a while and then deal with it afterwards. I would try to prevent the chipping to get worse. Yeah, that's all I could do with my TNA. I put the large clear fender washers, like the kind you would usually use to protect plastics. I have them under the posts. But it's hideous looking. Well, when it happens, yes. No, afterwards even. The fix is not even appealing. And when a manufacturer like JJP, where you spend $9,500 or $9,750. No, no, $9,500. You got to say it like that. Sounds better. $9,000. And you get in the, you know, when you complain about your shipping and they send you these washers. That's kind of like an FU to you almost. Well, this is like buying a Porsche and spending all the money on a Porsche. Yeah. And getting like, I don't know, a Kia instead. Hey, I own two Kia's. Stop it. I don't know. I love the Kia. Gremlin, that I'll approve. The Kia is not the same as a Porsche price tag is all I'm saying there. I mean, I just think that this is it. Like, especially knowing we ordered a Guns N' Roses, and now I'm, like, sitting here going, what the fuck? I'm not going to deal with that. Like, are you kidding me? No. I mean, we have some pooling under our post in Wonka. Does that make you feel? I mean, it is what it is. Yeah. I mean, if I have to put a washer around it or I have to re-clear it, you know, I will. but I've been keeping an eye on it, and so far I haven't seen anything. I mean, and we play the shit out of that game, so it's not like we don't use it. But at the same time, you spend twice as much on a J.J.P. game, you expect better quality, in my opinion. I mean, just like a Porsche. And listen, if the fix is that I have to get a new play field that I have to repopulate, F that. That is way too much work. No, what you have to do is when you get a new in-box game, you need to immediately stop it, take all the components off, Get it re-cleared, then put all the loggers on, and then you're all set. It sounds like we're getting to Ikea. Ikea level where they ship you everything and you assemble it yourself. But no directions. And then you have to do it yourself, and there's no fucking directions. And your husband, you know, tries, but his hands aren't quite as small as mine are. So really, who ends up doing the work? But the problem is this. If you take off the post, what if you do more damage when you're taking off the post? Because it grabs the clear and pulls it off. Now, oh, great. Now I've done more damage for trying to prevent damage. Why aren't they just making these things right? I just don't understand. I mean, I guess this is like the plight of America these days, but why aren't they just doing a better job making these things just because of cost? Cost. I think the market has changed, right? Like years ago, it was an operator's market. Yeah. So what if it chipped? Because you were going to get rid of the thing in 24 months, and then the next guy can work on it. They still didn't chip, though. Yeah, they didn't chip, though. It's like back then they didn't care. They didn't have WPCs with chips around the post or anything. Yeah, I would say that there's probably a difference with the manufacturers, but, I mean, how many of those have just all ended up in a dumpster and we don't even know, and it's just the survivors that have survived? Now, wait a second. I have another question that we'll bring up. What about now the older games that had the wider posts? Is that spreading out, the pressure when these guys are screwing these posts? What do you mean the wider posts? Like, you know, the old Bally and Williams posts that are, you know. They still use those. Well, I know Jersey Jack uses those. I might dial them in, they're used. Okay. The posts on the slingshots of Jurassic Park are the larger star posts. Okay. Because I have on the Batman, I have the smaller ones. That was one of the original arguments. It's like, oh, no, but I can tell you on my T&A, the shipping around the post, they're all the wider posts, every one of them. So girth doesn't necessarily help. Oh, my. Oh, yes, it does. Oh, my. Wait a second, wait a second. I didn't hear Mr. Dr. Penn bragging there after that. I don't need to. My wife did it for me. Oh, okay. I think especially in, like, right now, for Stern, your chances of getting pooling, chipping are going to be increased because of the way they're just cranking out the games. If you believe what Gary Stern said, they're 5,000 games behind. Excuse me, 5,300 now. Oh. Aren't even new Sterns having pooling issues, though? Like, yeah, in that same pin side thread, there was pictures of Avengers. One, like the entire side rail looked like it had major like chipping. It was so like, whoa, okay. It's even beyond what you would say like, oh, come on, quit complaining. Just put a washer open. No, this was just like, damn, dude, you got like a lemon or something. It's like the quality control too. I mean, like how are these getting out of the factory is my question. Like is nobody looking at them to say, hey, oh, oh, wow, that machine is completely, you know, jacked to shit. Well, there's some rumors that it happens after the fact, right? Yeah, it depends on when it develops. I mean, if it looks fine when you're there and it happens later. Like, my TNA when I first got it looked absolutely fine. And how many test plays do you want the factory doing in your game before you get your new in-box game? Yeah. You know, do you want to have 200 plays everywhere when you get it but no pooling? Like, that's going to be annoying, too. Yeah. We have thoroughly tested your game, hence the craters on your play field. Enjoy. We've thoroughly vetted. I suspect whether or not they're all actually tested. When Jeff Rivera got his Ghostbusters LE, like, you couldn't even fit the ball into the scoop. And that's really how bad it was. He's like, there's zero chance that they actually tested this. They may have said they tested it, but it was probably a rubber stamp that they moved on. Well, and also, I'll say, just for being in the IT field, it depends on the tech. It depends who does it on the line. I'm sure they have people at Stern on the line who are kick-ass and catch every issue. And then they have people who don't. You know, it's that simple. It's the same thing, like, when we work with vendors at my job, say you get a certain tech, works with you on a project, kicks ass, like, we're going to work with that company again. And the next time you work with them, like, oh, we can't get the same tech, you're going to get this other person. And they suck. It all depends who's on the line and who's looking at it. But, I mean, my TNA, I had to do more adjustments on that than any other new in-box game I've ever purchased. And when you look at it, it's like, well, what kind of adjustments? There's nothing on the – I had to adjust every single stand-up. I had to adjust because they wouldn't register correctly, every single one of them. I had to adjust so much on that game to get it working right. Dennis, mute your same microphone when you're sitting there. I'm sorry. I must have switched the audio when I plugged things in. I thought we were still on my Yeti. Let me fix it. I apologize. No, no. But Dennis, Chris will now join us. So now we have the bonding of Zach and Dennis. Oh, Jesus. Dennis joins us from This Week in Pinball. Not This Week. What do they call their new show? You were wrong. Yes. I know. I was stating it right off the bat. As soon as I said it, I was like, fuck. the gamers and also he is on the TPN main show. What do they call that show now? The pinball show. It's not the super awesome pinball show. It's just a regular pinball show. There's nothing awesome about it. It's not super awesome because Zach's always singing. Oh, God. He did again today, too. Oh, I'm so sorry. Look at poor Dennis. He looks defeated. Was it a really bad episode? It's been a lot. Yeah, I was like, oh, God, you guys have webcams on. I fucking look like that. You don't have to have it on if you don't want to. Well, the public won't see it, so it'll be all right. He's drinking his dew. He's slamming that dew. He's slamming the dew. Sorry. All right, so I should be back on the real microphone, so I should sound better. Yeah, it's because I plugged in the webcam. Look what Zach Vinnie has done to this poor man. He looks absolutely defeated. What happened? Was it like a... And if I think you look great... It's a 20-minute market trend segment? What happened to you? Bye, bye, bye. South, south, south. I just realized he looks a little George Clooney-ish. That's true. That's true. We had a touch on the clear coats. We had a touch on the clear coat issue. Oh, great. That's what we're talking about. Oh. Isn't that great? What's your view, Dennis? Are people overreacting? Is there a problem? No. Well, obviously it's a defect because it used to not be a problem. And so now that people are experiencing this, I completely sympathize. I think whether or not it's an overreaction just comes down to how much it bothers you. I would never go out and tell someone, don't buy a new game because the clear coat is pooling. If you can live with that and enjoy the game, then go forth and multiply and buy what you want. But if it does bother you, I would suggest not buying versus just going through and trying to do all these play field swaps. You'll just be miserable. Yeah. Oh, I mean, my Tron, it has chipping, actually, in the pop bumper area, which I noticed when I did a teardown with the ramps. And that was like a first run Tron Pro from, what, like 2011? Really? They didn't have Mylar in the pop bumper area? That's what bothers me. No, it's around the posts. So there's like the Zeus stand-up target, and around those sort of posts that have been screwed down, there's Playfield chipping around there. And, I mean, I just don't ever talk about it, and nobody ever notices. But it's there. I mean, you know, now, you know, what did somebody pay originally for a Tron Pro, like $3,500 US? Well, now you're paying for a Pro almost $6,000, and you're having more of these kind of issues. because they've swam upstream in the market, people are now demanding more. They demand better clear coats and they demand better art like Christopher Franchi and they demand better things like that. And when you do that, now you're playing in a different area where you have to deal with the issues that come from that. It's no longer just a random person who enjoys pinball that's buying the machine. It's like the fancy family that needs a fancy toy for their fancy game room. And, you know, there's no scratches in that game room. Well, it's also a COVID world. Everyone's buying them for their home. It's not like location pinball. I don't know. I'm just wondering if they would really do anything. How many people actually complain? Because basically, if you complain loud enough, they just send you a play field. And for them, that would probably still be cheaper than trying to change the play field, how they do the play field, how they do the clear coat. It's probably still cheaper just to, if you complain enough, yeah, here's the play field. If it's less than 1% of the people that complain, like, who cares? I mean, you can't go by what you read on Pinside because that's just a very... The bitches. Yeah, well, a very vocal crew there. You know, some people just don't care. you know is it going to hurt me like if I sell TNA well yeah because there's chipping I'm going to have to bring it up like hey look chipping what still plays great I don't think the average home buyer the non hardcore collector notices this I think that I don't care how immaculate their game room is I don't think they know any better to think oh maybe this clear shouldn't be pulling up around this post I don't think they think about it that way I do think the manufacturers are trying to solve it but I'm not sure it's a priority to solve. I think that's where you see the experimentation of, hey, let's receive the art away from the posts and see if that stops the chipping sort of stuff. And that long term, they would rather not have the reputation of having shit quality, but I don't think it's impacting their sales enough that it's a, well, you know, all hands on deck. We got to solve the mystery of Cleargate. Cleargate. Well, what about JJP? I mean, you have the company that their whole gimmick is high end. you know, we make the high-end shit. We're not Stern. We make, you know, the most feature-packed games imaginable. And we have the issue. Is it more of a problem? They've never admitted the issue. Yeah, they've done the least to try to address it of any of them, too. Like, at least with Stern, you can see that they're trying things even if it's not working. That's what I can tell for Jersey Jack. Like, they're using the same play-by-manufacturer. They're not changing the art. They're having the same exact issue on the next game. Yeah, that's real shitty. And like Stern, often they'll send you a fully populated playfield for you to swap out. Jersey Jack, you're lucky if they send you a blank playfield. Mm-hmm. Yeah, fuck that. Sorry. So when they talk about like guide rails, right, like they've shown those in like Deadpool and a few others, that they're either over-torqued down and they draw a whole line, they dig in. And a lot of people just say, well, why don't they just put a couple of frigging washers under there? Is there a reason why they don't do that? Does it change the geometry? I mean, I know some collectors. Probably also costs. In the new game, they tear it down. They put the washers under the guide rails, specifically to protect this, and the game seems to work fine as far as I've seen. It's probably cost. Think about it. How many washers per how many games? Yeah, but a washer is like a cent. Yeah, but guess what? When you put in how many guide rails are on them a game, and you multiply that by how many washers are needed. So even if you need 200 washers, that's $2. Gary Sturt is going to take out stuff that is $4 per game. Well, $2 per game, not $4 per game. Poor Brian Eddy. Yeah, Bruce, do the math. Putting a washer on each post also is labor-intensive. I mean, it's not just buying it. And that has to double the time as opposed to just drilling that sucker in. And what happens if you get the bad sack and they put them all in except one? And they're like, oh, you missed the washer. Are you going to take that off? Nah, just let it go. Well, you could just determine which posts are most visible because, you know, there's a lot of posts that you can't see once it's fully populated. Like the sling posts, you know, are very, you know, obviously visible. And why don't they just make clear plastic washers? That way people wouldn't bitch about it looking ugly because the art would show through. Well, they do have those. That's what I have on my TNA. They're just Lexin washers that you typically use to protect plastics. but they're perfect for that, actually, because they're just a little bit bigger than the bottom of the post, and you put them underneath, you can still see the art. But, I mean, on TNA, it's easy, because it's TNA. It's easy to take apart. I have to imagine on other games, it's probably a pain in the ass to take apart. Cost-wise, though, also, what's the intangible cost of the bad PR from this happening over and over and over again? If one person doesn't buy a game because of this, that's a huge loss. That's thousands of dollars. Well, for Stern, judging by the fact they literally can't keep up with the demand, I would say not much currently. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, what was the interview with WGN? Would Gary say that they're 5,000 orders behind? Yeah. It's 5,300, actually, Dennis Creasel. I respect your precision. It was actually Bruce's. I was just going by Ed Ed Robertson. Ed Ed Robertson said that. Oh, snap. I love that. I respect your precision. I've got to write that one down. That's good. That's a good one. That's a good one. Bruce-isms. I like that. That's a T-shirt. All right. One of Doom and Gloom. What can they do to fix this problem, Bruce? Or should they even bother? Does it matter? Oh, they have to fix the problem. Do they? Until the outcry gets so loud. But it's not going to if it's just Vince. No, the problem is going to be this. This is how it's going to have to be fixed. When they have another bad game go down the line that doesn't sell much. The problem with Stern is they have so many catalog games that they can actually use. Like, say if Stranger Things, we all know that's kind of a turd. But they had so many other games behind it that they can resell and do stuff and keep the line going. That's all the Gary's worried about, keeping the line going. It has to be where a game has bad quality and doesn't sell before they really will address it, because that's when it's going to hurt their bottom line. until it hits their bottom line, business as usual. We'll take the one or two hits and just go with it. Yeah, but I mean, what part of that is that it's more than just the clear coat? It's more than just the need for washers. It's the art. It's the game itself and how it plays. At what point is it going to be enough for just a really great game to need to be better quality? Wait a second. Now, hold on. You knew there was pooling. I'm going to go right after you now. You knew you had pooling under Wonka. And what did you do right after that? You purchased another pin from JJP. What did that tell you? I cannot vouch. No, but I cannot vouch for my husband's decision. And really, happy wife, happy life is a thing for sure. But there needs to be like a little rhyme for husbands being happy too. And that's like for real, right? Okay, so why did he make that decision? First, he got me drunk on Blue Raspberry Smirnoff Flushies, and then we purchased Guns N' Roses. That's how that went down. But you're bringing up the point of, like, you know, hey, when's it going to change? But you're inhibiting the problem. You're saying, oh, it's okay. Yes, yes. I'm not saying it's okay, but I was also not the propagator of this purchase. And so while I did not necessarily argue against it, I also did not argue for it as well. I was Switzerland in the JJP purchase. That's also like my second child. So, Dr. Pim, what do you feel? I was honestly just getting a coffee, and I came down to this. So what did I miss? He saw Guns N' Roses and said, yes, buy it now. Yes, yes. We were talking about you guys have pooling on Wonka. Yeah. But it's very minimal. It is minimal. It's on one post. You know there's a problem with that. Right. And you still bought another JJP. So are you encouraging the problem? Yeah, in a way, for sure. Yeah. If people keep buying these games, you know, they're not going to be impressed to fix it. But at the same time, for me, like I said, it's not a huge issue. It's not like I'm not going to buy the game because there's pooling around a post. Because I know how to fix it. You know, obviously, if it was shredding at the play field, I would think twice. And if the game itself was like a hot fucking mess, I would bust a cap in somebody at JJP. I mean, don't get me on the phone with somebody from Comcast or Time Warner Cable who is, like, incompetent. It's scary. Because I will seriously throw shit down. It's true. Or Jen at JJP's list going, I hope this never happens. I hope this never happens. Christine in the play field. We would like one with Slash signature, please. A complimentary hat. All of that jazz. Yeah, that guy who got that one game. That's going to be pretty cool, huh? Heck yeah. Complimentary hat. Yeah, he signed a standard. So some random person gets a standard with Slash signature. That's cool. Go ahead, John. The random package is almost like a standard. Like, there was the signed katana on one of the Deadpools and stuff. Like, almost every game now, there's some random guy who gets, like, a giant loot package with that game. Did we ever find out who got Spooky's 2000th, you know, extra stuff in his game? 2000th extra stuff. They made the 2000th game of Spooky's production, and they said a bunch of stuff, and nobody ever heard anything like, who got it? I had a look like a random operator just like, get stashed. When you say a bunch of stuff, you mean like a pack of cigarettes and shit? Maybe. Their exact wording was like a bunch of memorabilia and stuff. So Jersey Jack, like, contact Mirco at some point and say, guys, need to do better. Well, Mirco publicly, when they had their issues with Quicksilver and other stuff, they kind of, like, blew everyone off. Like, this is what it is. You've got to deal with it if you want our product. I mean, are they the only people out there who do this? That's the question. Like, is this like a monopoly situation where there just aren't any other companies who do it? No, I've seen Stern does different companies. But also, I mean, you've seen this issue on Sterns, too. Like, recent Sterns have had similar problems. So it's not. They've all had issues. Bring back the chemicals. Get some good hazmat suits to put those down. I'm not kidding. We're all wearing masks anyway. I know. The first with the clear and the art chip that I was aware of was actually spooky with about 100 of their TNA run. Yes. Yes. Yes. Accounted for. Thank you. Thank you. No, you were. I'm later than that because I learned about it when I was buying. I was like, they're saying they were giving out washers, and I'm like, do I need one? And Spooky never has publicly confirmed which ones were bad. People finally figured it out that you can tell by where the art was printed. But because on the later runs like mine, they receded the art away from all the posts. I have bare wood there. Do you think it's usually the machines that are kind of the first off the line that have this issue because they haven't had enough time to cure, or is it even later manufacturers? I don't think it's a cure issue, but I don't really understand Clear. Let me throw this out, and this is stolen from Nick Baldrige, who's quite brilliant and much in the way of pinball. What about the idea of abandoning Clear and going back to lacquer? Some states will not allow it. California will definitely shoot that right down on you. Okay. If it's manufactured there or you just can't own it? Sold. Sold. I'm waiting for Jersey Jack to start licensing from Haggis instead. Yeah. No, in certain states you cannot sell products that actually have lacquer in it. There's now three states. Oh, is it because of the volatile organic compounds in it? Exactly. It makes sense. I hadn't thought about that. Good point. That's the problem. I mean, right now in the state of California, they cannot develop commercial film anymore. So processors and that kind of stuff for film cannot be processed. You can do that? Oh, yeah. Do people still use film? I hate to say, but yes, they do. What's up, man? He's from Rochester. Yes, I'm from Rochester, home of the – but what's that Red Room? What are they doing in that Red Room? Did you see that post? No, yeah. I've seen that on the Internet. Yeah, that's classic. Yeah, there is. Why don't you explain that, Bruce? What do you mean? What's the show that we're talking about? Stranger Things? Stranger Things. They have the people who are developing film, and they have a red light in the room. Oh, my. And that was to actually see what you're doing when you're developing, so it doesn't overexpose on the negative of the film and processing the film. And people on the Internet are going, why are they in a red room? Well, not old people like you. No, not old people. We're millennials. Listen to me right there. Hey, I'm a millennial, and I know what a darkroom is. But to be fair, I took film photography in high school, so I went through the whole process of trying to unload film in that stupid dark bag where you have to do it by feel. Oh, yeah. Huge, skinny ass. Holy crap. Pulling the film out of the canister and wrapping it around that metal spool. Oh, my God. And I have, like, no dexterity, so it was a nightmare. And it can't touch because if it touches, you'll ruin the negative. Zach, you know what a red room is also, right, for development? I do, but my school, it costs it out having film classes. That's depressing. Yeah, when I went to school, yeah, we had film. Like, if we saw, if us little kids got to watch anything, you had to bring the projector in and actually put the reel on and all that because I'm old. Man, you're old. Yeah. Man, I thought I was cool for seeing a laser disc in the wild. I love laser discs. Yeah, in my elementary school fifth grade science class, we watched some series about surviving on a desert island or something. I don't really remember what it was, but it was on laser disc. Bruce, remember when the hot school technology was when they invented a film strip that would turn itself? Yeah. You always wanted to be that guy. Beep. Hit the button. Beep. Please change your film when you're doing it. I think we've beaten to death the whole Clearco thing here. Well, here's this. I do have a solution for this. Oh, yeah, solution. If the, yeah, if the problem is that everybody can't keep their hands off the new shiny, all we need is a couple of dud licenses and a few more Brian Eddy games. And then nobody will buy. Nobody will buy. and then they'll go, we might need to take a look at this. He was expressed by Christopher Fratch. He may not reflect those. The Slam Hill podcast. Okay, we're going to each have a vote on this. A vote? Oh, goodies. Here we go. When will be the first pinball show that people will be fully allowed to go to? What do you mean by fully? Yes, click the buy. mask are okay over 75% capacity oh when do you feel that will happen not next year 2030 it's going to happen I'll go with Scott 2022 something in 2022 I'll say Texas Spinball Festival 2022 that's what I would go with too yeah are they going to survive though They already said if they cancel again, they already have the dates for the next year. He already said that. But will they survive? That's going to be the big question. Have you seen Ed's Facebook page? He's surviving just fine. He's floating in inner tubes out in the Gulf of Mexico. He doesn't give a shit. I've talked to Ed. He's very much going to do it in 2022 if it doesn't happen next year. Yep. My vote is Pinburgh. I think Pinburgh will happen with at least 75% capacity. In 2022? Yeah, I think so. 2022. 2022, okay. Not this summer. Next summer. That's pretty far out. My vote's for TPF as well. This year you think it's going to happen? No, no, 2022. Sorry. Okay. I'm going to be really hopeful, and I'm going to hope 2021 New York. Yeah. Oh, very good, because it's so small. He's doing one year today. But then everyone's going to go there, and then EMs will have a comeback. We didn't say it was going to be a good idea. I said it might happen. Anybody else? I'll vote Expo 2021. Okay. So that's in the fall, right? It is. That Expo is so big. It is. You Americans are all risk takers. That's the thing. There will not be another major shutdown ever at any state level. There's no will for it. Oh, you don't have a state. Unless you're in New York. Well, I'm not talking New York, though. I'm talking Illinois. I know. They're already talking again. And vaccine deployment will most likely be at the mask level before then. So I think there will be people that will tell themselves that combined with masks that they can pull it off. Okay. Anybody else before I give mine? Give it. Give it. I going to be optimistic boys and girls This is Bruce This is Bruce This is Wednesday I am going with Allentown 2021 No No way No way I'll take that bet all day long. That's literally COVID land. That's like the most crowded, the most likely to get COVID show. What about that farmer's market? They are not wearing masks there, Bruce. I know. And guess what? They're still open now. Dude, come on down to Pennsylvania. It's rough down here, man. Oh, you've got to come, you know. Come on down and get infected. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Leave off. Technically, New Yorkers are discouraged to go back into Jersey or Pennsylvania right now because the rates are back up. Yeah, and my family lives in New York, and they just said, hey, you're yellow again. And I was like, oh, Jesus. It's bad, you know. It's just. Yeah, Allentown, no way. I don't think Allentown's going to happen. No way. I hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong, Bruce. I think eventually they're going to say, because if they shut down the economy again, we're screwed. We're all screwed. There won't be another, because there won't be a bailout. Just like there wasn't really a bailout the first time. But now everyone knows no one will save any businesses, so they can't afford to do it, is the thing. The thing with like an Allentown or even a ReplayFX, because I do think ReplayFX happens in 2021, was Bruce's condition of the 75%. I just don't think that they'll be able to, that's the part that holds me. I think they'll have the show, but I think it will be reduced. Especially depending on the states. It's like Florida or one of those insane states where everything's open. You know, they'll still have it, but maybe no one will show up. Yeah, I mean, we're here in Kansas. I mean, no one cares, but, I mean, we're everything open. But then at the local level, we are still putting mass gathering limits in place because that's one of the least controversial things. I care. You have Dorothy. Oh, she's gone. She's gone. That's us. Oh. Okay, so in Canada right now, David Ennis, what are your rules up there? Well, each province runs their own rules. Okay. I'm in, like, Canada's main, right? So we're a very rural area. We had two cases yesterday. We have an outbreak in the province in one area. We've got 25 cases. It is very northern in the province. Everybody in the province, regardless, anywhere is wearing a mask. You can't have more than, like, 50 people in a building at any one time, but most people aren't going anyway because we're all hyper-paranoid. Is everything open? Everything is open just as it normally would, yeah. Okay. Yeah, so if I wanted to go to a restaurant or whatever, it's no big deal. I sit down, I take my mask. If we had 100 cases in my area, people just wouldn't go out, and then it would be reduced to takeout only. Now, in Pennsylvania, hold on. I'm going to bounce around a little bit. In Pennsylvania, is everything open? everything for the most part is open, yes. Some restaurants not for sit-down dining, though. No, I mean, I'm talking about personal. Like, you know, mom-and-pop restaurant didn't want to open that stuff to them. What I'm saying is every industry allowed to open. I think so. I think so, yeah. But there are still a lot of places that you can't go in and sit down. Yes, I don't have that. And everything is, like, reduced capacity as well. So, like, I don't know. If they get to a certain amount, you can't go inside wherever it is. the restaurant, the store, the wherever, until people come out. Right. Yeah. Mr. Franchi, where you are? Everything open? You guys haven't heard about our governor? Oh, we got you beat. She closed down. I don't think I could even use the bathroom in my house. No, I think everything here, for the most part, is opened up. They have, you know, like all the restaurants, like you can only sit in every other booth. Yeah. You know, everybody's got markings and things like that. And even, like, there's a guy's got an arcade here, and he put up, like, those, you know, shitter walls in between each game. You know, the, what do you call that in the back? You know, stall. Stall walls. Yeah, or plastic liners. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, the Michigan Supreme Court deemed that all of the guidelines that she laid down, saying that you can't do this, you can't do that, wasn't justifiable. It wasn't backed by any laws or anything like that, so they kind of revoked everything. But, you know, now again... Then they went back to an old law in 1943, I think it was. Well, what they're doing now, though, is they're like, they did a mass testing of people, And then they said, oh, my God, there's been a spike in COVID. Well, of course there's going to be a spike if you test a billion people, you know, as opposed to not testing them and not registering any, you know, new cases. So, you know, everybody's panicking because of that. So who knows? I don't know what the future holds. I know. But right now everything is pretty much opened up. So, David, I mean, sorry, David, Dennis, Griesel, everything open in Kansas? Statewide there are no limits. We have 105 counties. They all make their own rules. So some of the more urban areas in particular have cracked down on bars and restaurants specifically, usually reduced operating hours. They're not allowed to go to 2 a.m. anymore. For example, I'm assuming the theory is that the drunker people are later at night, the less compliant they are with the masks. Plus, a lot of our cases are coming from bars. But that's yet entirely locally decided. The governor gave up, the legislature stripped her power to institute mass bans without their approval during a special session in the summer. And she did sign that into law to keep our emergency order in place. It was the compromise that happened. So the governor actually has very little power at this point. Scott? Yeah, so I'm in Utah, and I actually, I was watching a news conference with our state epidemiologist, And she literally said, I quote, I don't know what to do anymore. It's because she's recommending, you know, basic stuff, masks, social distancing. Dr. Pitt and I both are anesthesiologists at hospitals and we are used to these type of cautionary measures. But we're in the West and we have this. you'll put the mask on when you tie my hands behind my cold, you know. In some ways, it's kind of frustrating because I'm trying to balance this. I want to be able to not starve the economy by keeping things open. And things are open here. But you have to find some balance of finding reasonable precautions so you can actually keep going. But we have 1,500, and we are regularly in 1,500. and our state only has 3 million people. I mean, if you're looking at a hot spot, why don't you come to Utah and hang out? Now, we have four of us that live in New York State, which is myself, Ron, Zach, and Steph. This state is still not 100% open. Seven months later, there are still businesses that are not allowed to open. Yeah, but your state also has one of the lowest number of cases in the entire country because you have people who are listening to the recommendations. Not anymore. We're going back up again. But still lower than almost every other state in the continental U.S. And we still have our economy is actually now the third worst in the United States. But you're alive. That is true. I mean, it's not always the, guess what? I know. Unfortunately, if you don't have a, say if you don't have a job, like I don't right now because of COVID. What do you think it is? Because Dr. Penn and I have talked about this a lot as well, but we know that the world right now is in a very bad place. How do we help pinball in this world? Just to kind of bring it back to the topic at hand. I was getting that topic. I was really getting that topic, saying you still in this state cannot have arcades open. We just opened our movie theaters three days ago. And that even sounds like a mistake. But guess what? 40 other eight states have them open right now. What is going to be the thing for pinball in this state? Literally every pinball parlor in the state of New York or in the world is suffering right now. How do we make it better? Well, Bruce, you're bringing up a great point in that really my job is it's COVID proof. I have a job at the hospital regardless of the entire state could be on fire. I will show up to work. And this is the challenge with people who are enacting guidelines or enacting recommendations because it totally depends on how it personally affects them. And so this is what I've been talking with my friends, especially the people who have businesses that have been adversely affected, is that there are – there's no – it's not a light switch situation. It's more of a dimmer switch. You need to figure out how you can have minimal impact on people's businesses but also take reasonable precautions so you don't overwhelm the system. And this is the challenge that people who are not personally or financially affected, they're going to err on the side of extreme precautions, don't go anywhere, don't do anything like that. But my friend, he's actually the nephew of Donny Osmond, he hasn't performed in six months. And he's out of work. He sold his house. And they are living on subsistence just because there's nothing. He can't do anything to earn money. And so we need to be sensitive to all the small business people out there who need something. something. And so whether or not that's a reasonable limit, hey, we really want people to wear masks. We want to have those plastic sheets between the pinball machines. We want to have a hand washing at every station. And please, if you're not eating, please wear a mask. Then you will get some traction. But right now, nobody is willing, just like a lot of things, nobody is willing to have any sort of reasonable compromise on finding a goal that will at least help. Everyone wants a perfect solution. There's no perfect solution, but there are reasonable compromises that people can make. Guess what? The way I look at it is this. If you don't want to go out, you still don't have to go out. But give the businesses a chance to try to make a living. Just try. Yeah, cutting them off at the knees and then the thighs and then the dick and then the torso is really not a one compromise. Yeah, there's nothing worse than a Canadian, you know, observing from afar. But our government has spent, both nationally and provincially, has spent a lot of money and a lot of effort to encourage us to do those things that are right, while providing a lot of subsidies to small businesses to pay rent, for large corporations to pay rent. And, you know, we have a program where the federal government will actually pay 75% of the wages of any business that's closed. That's the way it should be. I agree. Yeah, that's the – oh, I mean, back to Bruce's question about, you know, business and survivability. That was the issue. That's the American failure on the response, federal on down from the get-go. Yes, totally. So, you know, it's the decision was made to not invest enough money to actually subsidize the businesses that were being asked to close. So you put them in the Kobayashi Maru. It's a total no-win scenario. You either needed to pay them to stay closed, which we didn't put enough money into remotely at all, so we failed in that regard, Or you have to let them open to let them try and earn a living, which in some states still is not possible because the state is not allowing it. And that's – so in terms of how you help, I mean, in the case of New York, honestly, your amusement industry needs to lobby better quite frankly. We know that's happening in other states. Here's the problem, though. My money is being spent instead of trying to help the businesses out. Our governor is suing when he loses a lawsuit. He is appealing every lawsuit. Instead of using that money to maybe help these businesses, he is fighting with the people to try to help them. And the way that our government has sort of considered it is for us at our level as sort of individuals and myself as a small business owner to take on a bunch of debt, it's easier for the federal government to take on that debt when it comes to, you know, pushing out loans, T-bills and stuff and spreading that out over a 20, 30, 50-year time horizon. So it's putting it on their credit card instead of mine. And in the long run, you know, we'll see how that plays out. But that's what's keeping, in the short term, people alive, right? We have to keep everyone alive. I agree with that. But how do we help pinball out? And it's the same boat, David, here in the U.S. Only the federal government can deficit spend. States aren't allowed to do it. There are a couple exceptions. Yes, New York has an exception to the rule. Most states are not allowed to deficit spend under their constitution. So normally that's where people complain about, you know, there's a big debate in the U.S. about federal debt and all that. But the bottom line is they are allowed to borrow at will. If there was ever a time, it would have been to combat a pandemic. But and there were small sums. That's where CARES Act money started to come into play. But very little CARES Act money as a proportion going to businesses. I mean, here in Kansas, we got four hundred million dollars. but the share that the businesses got I don't think was that great because we had to draw from that same pool to pay for the pandemic public health response. And the hospitals also drew from the same pool. The worst part is the airline industry is still getting bailouts and bailouts because it is an important thing in a lot of things, and the hospitals and everything else. I'm glad that. But with pinball, how do we keep these places going besides either, A, getting a chance to get infected if you want to go to the place, B, buying gift certificates and that kind of stuff. What else can we do to keep pinball going? You're the expert, man. I mean, you've been through this closer than any of us. So what do you think you should be doing? I think everything should be allowed to be open. And with masks, everything. I think it should be a harder, stringent cleaning. It should be on the responsibility of the government to help offset that cost thing of it. Like cleaning materials. Every, you know, here's what New York did do well, and it wasn't the state level, it was the county level. If you owned a business in Monroe County, which I was business then, every month they would give you 1,000 masks free. Now, the cost of 1,000 masks is $212. You would bring your license, your food handler's license, to the government building, and they would give you 2,000 masks to give out. that is the help part which I don't see at any other major level yes I agree with the nurses and everything like that the hospitals, give them everything they fucking can because they're our front line people that's the biggest thing we need but for pinball and for other businesses we need more of that stuff maybe for pinball people if you have extra Lysol wipes send them to the locations so they don't have to spend the cleaning material maybe, and maybe they can keep their business open a couple more weeks, and maybe then people will see their cleaning and procedures where then, oh, hey, I feel a little better about this. You know, at least some places maybe are not cleaning, and it's going to happen to every place. But at least if they are cleaning and trying to make it better, you will have a better chance of not getting COVID. So maybe we, instead of giving them money, maybe help them out in other ways, like with masks. Send them masks so they can give it to every person that walks in the door. Send them cleaning materials. Send them anything else they can use the other ways, so maybe it will help offset their costs in different ways. And you think that's enough? Well, it might be a help. But the thing is, in your state right now, the only thing our governor has done great is businesses do not have to pay rent right now until January 7th of 2021. The problem is they're still on the hook to pay it backwards. And that's where I think we need to address that issue. No one's addressed that issue. It just keeps on getting pushed off further and further. Yeah, I'm assuming they're probably pushing because they're hoping that there would be a state local bailout from the federal. And obviously that's become very politicized because that's where you hear the debate of, well, we don't want to bail out the blue states. Yeah, and that's all. Red states like ours are in the same boat. Oh, they all are. We're pushing off on the rents as well. And I agree with that. It should be that way. We need more helping out the smaller businesses, which are going to be our pinball arcades. But in this state, I can't even open it. Right. The reason why I asked you, Bruce, if you thought it was enough is because, well, here in Kansas, like all of my area pinball places are open, but the attendance is terrible. Oh, it's terrible. People aren't going in to play. They've even socially distanced the games out. They're all running at like 50% game capacity voluntarily from their own volition, but they're not. The coin drop is terrible. People aren't going in and playing. So in a way, are they scared or do they think that they're not being cleaned or is it just the the contact, you know, touching a machine? Now, I don't. Here's another thing I don't understand is originally they said, you know, contacting a machine was bad. Now they say it's OK. Now they're still up in the air about this. Well, we keep learning new things about the virus. Exactly. But the problem is we don't get updates. No, it's it's very confusing. I mean, the mask stuff was confusing to people. Well, what about what Nick Schell did? You probably know about it. With the air, he had the whole air filtration thing he's put in place. And that's something that I, you know, Nick is, and I do agree with Nick on this, is I think a lot of people didn't really think about air circulation for a long period of time because there was all this obsession about droplet size and the close, and now obviously, especially as the air dries more and more. I just read a study this last week that is now indicating that it seems to be that the COVID contagion rate It goes up 7% to 8% for every 1% decrease in humidity, which is consistent with the behavior of other viruses. That's why the fall surge was inevitable. We knew once the air dried, it would spread more easily. That's why we jumped. That's why we went out of business. In our case, in response to your question, Bruce, most of it doesn't sound like it's so much a fear about touching the machine because they've got the sterilizing wipes and whatnot. People aren't even going into the restaurants except to pick up food. A lot of people are just really uncomfortable with the notion of sitting in there for 30 minutes or an hour, breathing the same air as other people. It's scary because they're all, everyone who's eating has taken their mask off. So, you know, they're just little germ factories if a single one of them has COVID. Now, I know of a place that, I'm not going to mention their name, is open with their pinball, and they're doing not that bad. They're actually saying it's helping them survive. instead of being closed, of course, you know, because you're getting no money in. But our restaurants are actually picking up up here where it's actually, it's, as you said, it could be a germ spreader. I feel it's more like weddings, family get-togethers, because that's when I think everyone relaxes a little too much. They start hugging. They start, you know, kissing people. Yeah, and they just really go off the deep end. You're kissing family members. My mother's brother's sister's mother got me pregnant. Only for celebrations, David. But I think that's the super spreaders where we've seen. But for pinball, how do we make pinball survive besides being home? I feel like, honestly, in another two years, it might be home only. You're asking not how we get pinball to survive, but how we get public pinball to survive. Right. Yeah, exactly. I thought a simple solution in Asia where they just put up shower curtains between all the stalls. Not the stalls, but you know what I mean. All the pinball machines. And I think that the perception of safety is going to lead people to do more. The challenge is location pinball is already struggling competing with home market because unless you have a good operator like you, Bruce, being able to maintain the machines, Half the time you go and the machine plays horribly. And I'm like, I got great playing machines at home. Why am I going to go somewhere else to play? So they're already struggling with that. And on top of that, if you have the perception of just those 99-cent shower curtains that you can get at any sort of store, if you put those up, I think that does increase the, okay, at least they're trying to do something. They're trying to limit the air circulation. And that would at least make me a little more comfortable to go back. being able to have them open and show that they're doing something. If you go into a restaurant that looks exactly the same as it did pre-COVID, I'm going to assume that they're not really doing much. But if I go into a place and I see, okay, they're doing something seriously, they have those dividers up, they do something like that, then I'm going to be a lot more comfortable. But you're right, the legislation has to be there that allows them to open up and allows people to make that personal choice. So we have one of our favorite places down here, the Pinball Gallery. And I was so nervous to go the first time that we went. And we went, when do you think that was? Maybe a few months ago for the first time? I think it was three months ago you guys went. It wasn't three months, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we were really, we have been very cautious. I have shower curtains hung up in my classroom. I mean, I am very, very anxious about all of this stuff. But we went into Pinball Gallery, and I swear they have every other machine off. They are cleaning visibly all the time. They have hand sanitizer next to almost every machine. They have plexiglass hung up in front of the, like, cash register window. Everything even that can be is, like, touch-free. So even just how you pay, you can just use Apple Pay so that you don't even have to touch a register or a little keypad nasty thing. Yeah. No scenario is safe, right? I mean, 100% safe. But as Scott was saying, if they're showing that they're trying and they're doing their best effort, then you have to support those businesses. Right. Well, and not only that, but like when we went in, now we've gone back probably three times since then. And I feel completely comfortable. Every single person is wearing a mask. If someone isn't wearing a mask correctly, meaning, you know, if it's like under your nose, they are asked politely to fix that. I just feel like it's okay. If I feel safe, I feel like that's saying a lot. Yeah. Do you think that machine should be now using what – has anyone ever heard of PayRange? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. PayRange is an actual app that you put on your phone, and you can make your pinball machine receive credits. You can pick a game on the app and play it if it's local and if it's set up for it and actually not – it's touchless for payment. Do you think maybe we should have that more on pinball? It's a nice thought, Bruce, but you're still touching the buttons. Yeah. I agree, but at least when you're not touching the money. So we install a pay range and it dialed in. Then you can only play via Bluetooth. Yeah, but I mean, but you're not touching the money, and people are all afraid about the money part of it also. Yeah, it decreases risk. It decreases risk. It makes people feel more comfortable. Would that help? No. I mean, how much is that going to cost operators to install that? That's the whole question. It's about $100 per machine. Why not just go free play and then just charge like $5, $10, whatever to get in? Where's the pin bar? Where's the pin bar? But I think maybe that's the way to do it. Maybe we all go away from the coin drop. Maybe we go for already an hour or two hour set time or maybe the whole day time. One of our locations, a newly opened location, is doing that. They're doing what Chris suggested, the let's just rent out some time and let people come in. The reason why I agree with you, Bruce, and Dr. Penn, that pay range would make things safer because you aren't handling the money. But because you're still touching the pinball machine, I don't think you overcome. I don't think it's worth the investment. No, I don't either. I don't think you overcome the mental barrier of I'm touching germs just by removing the money from the equation. No, I think that's why it's just important to make sure that you're, as an operator, cleaning in between and that you're making sure that, you know, whether it's spaced with a separator or a divider or a shower curtain, whatever it is, that you're separating. Or a machine off, even a machine off. Right. And that's what they're doing at the pinball gallery. Yes, we did. I feel like having hand sanitizer available for customers and making sure that you have bathroom facilities where people can go and wash their hands. I think that even just having those things makes me personally feel a ton better about going to do stuff. But that's the way to make sure that location pinball survives. It's just making sure that it's there when you get there. We're talking about, like, how do I play on location to keep the business alive? Well, you know, the lefty Canadian basically says, well, what if the outbreak is bad enough and you just pay me to close? and then I'm there and alive when, you know, things turn around. You know, that's where we have gone. We locked down so hard, even in my rural province and sort of in the larger cities, that we were able to open fairly well and our mitigation of, you know, the shower curtains, et cetera, you know, lasted for a good five or six months and the caseload is still down. Now the caseload is ticking up, and when we do have to slowly lock down, we're starting from a lower baseline. The stepping on rakes, sadly, that you guys had done for five months has really put you in a situation now where, well, if we can't close and we're doing our mitigation, it's a no-win scenario, right? I don't think there's anything that you can do at this point than what you're doing already. but I think there's other ways we could help and I'm not sure I'm trying to maybe I think part of the issue though Bruce is unlike in New York in most of the US these facilities can operate now yeah I agree so if they're still struggling if they're still struggling I don't know how you to me it's the mental barrier of the percentage of people that are too uncomfortable to go out in the midst of a relatively broadly uncontrolled pandemic within the United States Here's the funny thing I have. This is the problem. Next door to us was a fancy, high-falutin' restaurant. Very nice. You know, plates are between $25 and $35 per person. What type of cuisine? Italian. Okay. And they have a line out the door every night waiting around to get into this place during COVID. And they're looking at my place going, oh, there's germs probably in there. but they're all hanging out in front of this place three feet or four feet from each other, not even separating, to go into a restaurant. What is the difference in perception? Because the problem is everyone's blamed, and it is a good example, where if people are going to a bar, inhibitions do go down a little bit. We've all seen it. You know, bars are a hot spot or a, you know, a flare-up area. And when people get drunk, their inhibitions go down, their masks come off, and it's more of a chance to get sick. I wonder what the percentage is of pinball places that actually have alcohol slash bars as well. It's a pretty good amount. I know mostly in New York it is a high amount. Because here it's not, like, I don't, getting a liquor license in Pennsylvania is, like, basically donating a kidney. You have to go out. You have to buy the license. No, I mean, it's crazy, and there's only a certain number per area. So the town where we live was dry until about 10 years ago, which is just obscene. So I just wonder how many pinball places actually sell and or – It's probably 50-50. You think so? Yeah, because the Kickback Cafe is not and other ones, but, you know, New York City, Jack Bar and all those other places. They're actual bars. They are actual bars. or in our case even if it's not an actual bar most of the places serve food and at least uh beer yeah light light alcohol so i don't know if there's a real answer to say we'll just how do we get this fixed or anything like that but it's just a it's a big topic and i think it's just going to get worse in the next three months where we're going to see a lot more location pinball go to the wasteland maybe we shouldn't be too hasty because the sooner this clears up the sooner we find a solution, the sooner they open the borders, the sooner Teolis will be back in America. Oh, God, man. Is that a good thing? That's a bad thing. COVID. Well, the thing is about this that worries me, you need the location pinball for the younger people. Because I know everything looks rosy now with Stern selling all these games. They're selling it to middle-aged dudes, like tons and tons and tons of them who want games. there won't be a next generation of middle-aged dudes who watch games if they don't get to play them on location. Of course, you could make the argument that the new generation of middle-aged dudes won't have enough money anyway in 30 years or 20 years to buy games. We had a lot of walk-in people in our place, and we were actually getting more and more younger people playing in our league and that kind of stuff, or people who were coming in going, wow, I've never done this before. And that will not help pinball at all, unfortunately. Well, Gary Stern has said it time and time again, And the way to grow pinball is have more pinball on location. And good pinball. Like, I've been in the hobby for three years now. And I was at a hotel that randomly had one of those sketchy arcades in the basement, like, back in the 90s. And I was like, holy crap, there's, like, an arcade down here. And I played some machines, and I'm like, man, that'd be so fun. I'd love to buy one of those for 500 bucks. And then you discover, oh, that's not how this works. and then you buy some pinball machines on Pinball Arcade and you say, well, if I still want to play pinball and I've played some of these on the digital versions and then six months rolls by and you're like, wow, you know what, I still really want to play pinball. Well, then you get rolling into buying your own machine or buying a used machine. And unless I was able to sort of bump into this place in a hotel, that's going to all go away. Now, getting off that Let's get off this a little bit Because I think we've been beating this to a dead horse Get off Do we want to talk about Dennis' light switch? Oh yeah Put your arm down Look at that thing, he's got one of those dial dimmer switches I haven't seen one of those in like 20 years That's probably because I've got all of my houses Wow Dennis the Secret Santa is going to send you one of those slider ones I think that's actually wired to the fan the ceiling fan you can't see there you go my poor little dial so much judgment that's the closest I'll ever get to dialed in there you go so bad come on over you can play it at my house COVID free guaranteed now we need to get stew on this no we don't need to get stew on here God, you are so anti-Sulich. I hate that guy. He beats all my scores. I am not a fan. I'm not a fan. But you invite him over and let him beat you. So has anyone seen the Guns N' Roses standard stream that happened? I think it was Friday. Yeah, I watched about an hour of it. So what do we think for those who have actually seen Guns N' Roses standard edition? I think it looks great. I still hate Guns N' Roses. I think it looks like it shoots better. Yes. I think it's more flow. Yeah, speed. Mountain flow. And the whole upper left that has nothing in it, they took care of that by putting a large sculpt there. Is it worth $67.50? You compared to Hot Wheels, what do you think, right? There's not a whole lot in Hot Wheels either. But that's $6,000. Yeah, I'd take a gun to the Roseville Hot Wheels. Yeah, I mean, compared to a Stern Pro, I mean, it still had the cool lighting. I mean, sure, the Hot Rails are just white. They don't change colors. But it looked like it still had some pretty kick-ass lighting going on there. It definitely looked like it shot better. I want to see an Avengers Pro more. I want to see more Avengers Pro. Avengers Pro for sure, yeah. Everyone's got their Ellie's out. The Ellie's great. Oh, the Ellie's great. Don't get me wrong. I have one local. We were just there two nights ago. We were playing the piss out of it. Zach got five out of six stones. Of course. Six stones? Aren't they gems? So Zach, what do you think of Avengers? I'm still trying to figure out the rules. I like Zach doesn't understand the rules. Yeah, that's a problem. I'm the guy who sees Star Wars day one and is like, this looks so complicated, I have to have it. And I'm playing Avengers and I'm like, I am lost here. Me and Zach are actually talking to each other while he's playing going, okay, now you've got to go for this. And I'm still lost. I'm like, man, this is a complicated game. Wow. I actually want the mode where you're playing as Thanos and you are trying to kill people. That's what I want. There you go. Ooh. Like a Friday the 13th where you're Jason. Yeah, exactly. That would be great. Yeah, I like that. You hear that, Stern? Actually, you hear that, Spooky? That's a perfect game for you. Friday the 13th, you are Jason, and you must kill all the teenagers. Halloween's better. Michael Myers is better. I agree. I agree. I would much rather see Halloween. Okay, you're Mike Myers, and you have to kill the teenagers. Notice how you changed the plot there. The baby. Damn, God. What a nightmare. You're killing the teenagers. Oh, wait. And then the music, the Halloween soundtrack. I wonder if we can get more, like, pin announcements, like, with October coming around. Because usually if we get a stern sometime around Halloween, right? It's going to be later. Well, it was in December last year. Yeah, I've been still thinking they're going to hold until January. I mean, too. Most people seem to think it will hit December, so I'm probably wrong, as I usually get almost all the release predictions wrong. If they're 5,000 behind, they want to catch up. They don't want to catch up too fast, but they want to get it down to probably about 1,500 to 2,000. I don't know how they're going to create it. If they delay the game and finish the code first, that would be weird. I always think back to that last Clusterbuck, where Josh Sharpe was on and explained it's about keeping the line busy. And if Stern's line's busy, there's not really a need, in a vacuum at least, to go to the next game. But, again, I don't know what their license arrangements are like. If Led Zeppelin's like, you know, you're only going to have a year and a half to sell if you release it in February, then maybe they need to do it just so there's enough time to actually get some sales. I mean, I don't know. I don't understand that side of the business. So you're saying Steve Ritchie's doing Led Zeppelin? Is that an exclusive we're hearing from? My spies. I know Steve Ritchie's doing it, and we know Tim's on code. Yep. Because they're kind of joined at the hip at this point. Do we need to rent out all the water towers around Stern and paint saved monsters on it? Oh, I think you'll never do that. Damn it. The problem is the coder who was originally on it. He doesn't like going backwards on games. He did it at Ghostbusters. Yeah, Ghostbusters. I think he was forced to. He was forced to? Why would he be forced to? They weren't going to make more of them. I think the backlash that they had on those games. Backlash? They don't care. No, their sales are up. Year on year, their sales are up. Monster sales aren't up. It gets back to the clear coat thing. If you're still selling, who cares if people are ultimately unhappy with it? I know distributors that still have LEs. Yeah, but Ghostbusters, they sold a shit ton. There was no reason for them to go back and do that. I don't see it. I don't know. But he has said, publicly he has said, I do not want to go back to older games with code. Well, no, we all want to look to the future, not back in the past. Unless you own that game and you're not happy with the code, then you're saying, we're just going to have the code updates. Yeah, but I mean, I thought that they had, in the case of Monsters, they were pretty upfront about that it was going to be a simplified rule, kind of an Iron Man-esque, that was my vibe from how they described it back when it was coming out. Iron Man rules were good. I agree. I agree. And having played Monsters as much as I have, I just, the code for me. It's lacking. It just doesn't, like, I feel, I don't hate it. I feel nothing. Yeah, I don't even enjoy it. I have a game. Aw. It's always like, I have. Wait, wait, Bruce, Bruce, I got to stop you here. Did you just say Iron Man code was good? It's Lonnie Ropp. Yeah, you realize. Me and David are thinking of the same thing here. That's Lonnie Ropp, you know. It was tweaked at the end by Lyman. Oh, okay. Oh, the tweet. No. Lonnie has one. He's tweaked it more. I mean, that's like giving Dwight all the credit on Star Trek when most of Star Trek is Lonnie's code. No, it's not. It is. Dwight himself has said in interviews, do not credit me for that. He has no credit because it was all there. The problem was Lonnie's rule sucked. We had to switch all the stuff that we had in half to make it better. No. Okay, well, when we interviewed Dwight, he's the one who said, don't give me credit on that. He said what he said, don't give me credit. The medals were in the game from the beginning. They just weren't implemented yet until he came in. Yeah, and when is Lyman ever going to get done monsters to tweak it? Yeah, when's Lyman going to do this? It works for all the other games, you know. Because Lyman sees that train wreck, and he's still working on his other train wreck, which is called Elvira. I do have a question for you all, getting the talk on code. Do any of you think that Lyman will ever be put on a non-boutique? Like, will he ever work on a pro again? Or is he just going to be on expensive stuff? Expensive. I don't think he will. That's one of the justifications you spend the money on the expensive game. It's a Lyman game. Look, it's the draw. I mean, these last two also have been themes that he liked personally. Yeah, it's true. He wanted to do a haunted house theme, so they gave him that. It's actually just like the next time a theme comes up, it happens to be a mainstream theme that he likes, and he'll be like, can I do that one? And he'll be like, okay. The biggest reason I have this right behind me is because of that code and somebody's artistry, both. It's awkward how you're rubbing that. I thought that was the couch. I'm rubbing it both ways. Was it the piece of couch, the drawer? I thought that's what it was. No. I fear that Bruce is right, but I do think that he is. I mean, think about it. Lyman's not been on a pro premium LE model since Walking Dead. That is true. And they've heavily advertised him on these boutique games as one of the main strengths. Like, this is going to be a Lyman game. But does anybody but us really care about that, though? Yeah. It seems like the teams are set, though. It doesn't seem like they're mixing that much. It seems like, you know. Lyman is the mixer of it all. Yeah. Think about it. Francie was with him on Batman. That's true. Then now it went to, for the other four, Elvira. He's going to be the oddball where he's going to pick what he wants. He literally is the head programmer there. Plus, they have kind of more set teams. You have Timmy's with Steve Ritchie because I don't think anyone there wants to work with Steve at this point. So they're joining under the hip. Then you have the Keith team, which has been, I think, unprecedented. The exact same team working on three straight games now. They've never done that that I know of at Stern. Was it the same artists, too, for the Elwynn Games? Same artists for two of the three. Jurassic Park was different. It was the Mr. Crap Dude. But all the code has felt different on all the games, too, which is Mr. Crap. But then you have... Mr. Crap Dude. Mr. Crap Dude. You have, you know, Dwight just seems to be working with Borg most of the time now. Which, you know, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Hey, if it makes games that sell, who cares? Did Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Think about it. That's died off the face of the earth. It's still right. The last two Dwight Lord games have both sort of fizzled. Yes. I don't know enough about it. My sense wasn't that TNNT has done poorly for them. That one did good. I think, obviously, Avengers being the hit that all Elwins are means that a whole bunch of attention has now shifted to it. I think they were kind of clever, though, with the idea that you can get Turtles for $100 less. Avengers had the price increase, and Turtles holds up the old price until the start of the new year. Talking to Zach earlier today, it sounds like Turtles are on back order. Oh, what's the store Avengers, though? Look at people over at Avengers. I think Turtles is a hit, is my point. I don't really. Let's think back to last year where you had Munsters, which I think started really strong, but it was kind of flashed in the pan. There's no long tail on the sales for it. And then there was Black Knight, which I don't think did well for them at all. And then you had Jurassic Park, which is their one big hit. But this year, I think Turtles did well for them, Avengers is doing well for them, and there's still so much pent-up demand for Jurassic Parks as well. I just think that it's just been a really big time. The usual test to see what does not do well for them is whatever they're offering as the game in their tournaments. Yeah. Which is Black Knight premiums and Stranger Things. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, Stranger. But the thing I know is the local op that's running Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Stranger Things, here's the weird thing, is Stranger Things is pulling in more money. Yeah, I've heard it does well on the other side. That surprised me. Okay, but the turtle is really brutal. Like, the one I have, I'm playing co-op. That's the problem. People are going up to it and just put their one dollar in, and one minute they're done, and they're looking at people going, I'm not going to put another dollar back in this thing to play it again. Oh, wait, like right next to Stranger Things. and they'll play a little bit with the Stranger Things. Yeah, honestly, I was training faster. Tell us about the glider, Scott. Yeah, the glider is, I don't know, use that and forget it. Like, I have zero understanding on why you use the glider, actually. It just kind of blocks the play field, especially in the streams and the overhead shot. And you can't move it all the time. I thought watching, originally watching the promo video, I'm like, oh, cool, you be able to like move this thing every time you hit a ramp and you don hit it But then I hit the button and it didn do anything It doesn always it not always active which is weird Very weird I got the premium because the one thing I didn like is on my X that spinning disc it was like a drain monster It, like, had a radar lock on the left out lane. And on Turtles, it spins one way on the Pro and it spins multiple ways. It spins both ways. Both ways. Okay, multiple, two ways. Yes. Supercrucism. It spins all the way. I try. Always, always spins, yes. Because all the way is all of them. That'd be a cool lock if it spun horizontally, flipped over, and caught the ball under it. It'd be cooler if it went upside down, actually. I'll be expecting that mech from your game, Zach. I'm a champion machinist. I want a ball lock that's like an orb that 360s and does Death Blossom from The Last Starfighter. That's what I want. Death Blossom from The Last Starfighter. Where's the pin bar? Where's the pin bar? Is it bad I knew what Death Blossom means? Hey, that has a Halloween 3 tie-in. Do you know what it is? No, I don't. The Last Starfighter? No, I've only seen Halloween 3 twice. The Navigator of The Last Starfighter. Under heavy makeup, he's the bad guy from Halloween 3. Oh, the old creepy guy. The old guy from, he's also in Robocop. Dick, I'm very disappointed. So right now, there's 14 games on Stern Pinball's site that can be bought and are assumed not, are still available. Assumed in production. You mean including, like, different versions or 14 unique titles? Titles. Wow. Really? Avengers, Turtles, Stranger Things, Star Wars, the newer with the better artwork. Yep. The cardboard. The cardboard. Yep. Elvira, Jurassic Park, Black Knight Sword and Ring, which is a little deceiving because you only get premiums. The regulars are out. Monsters, Beatles, Deadpool, Iron Maiden, Guardians of the Galaxy is still up there, regular Star Wars, and Batman. Yeah, the Guardians are supposed to hit the line in November, I believe. Yes, they are. And then Batman's hitting it in December as well. Interesting. So you can actually get those again. I can confirm the Star Wars comic ones were supposed to hit in October. Why would you confirm that, sir? And I can confirm they have. And why would you confirm that? That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. Is Stu getting his first game? Is Stu getting his first game? I cannot confirm nor deny. Wow. Star Wars, now known as Avengers, but with easy code. Ooh. All I know is I'm scared when Zach says he doesn't understand the code. Then I know I have absolutely no chance of understanding the code. I mean, granted, I can put up good scores without understanding it, but I have 2,300 million scores sometimes. I think Avengers needs the glove in the corner to be gone and put a screen there, like what JJP is doing and have the second screen to tell you stuff. Yes. You can see it and use it. Just tell me what all my gems do, just like cycle all the time. Thank you. Yes. This Jim does this right now on this shot. If you move it to this shot, it does this other thing. Like Dr. Pin and Mrs. Pin, you really want the screen on the side. Is that incredible to see and look at, or do you not look at it all the time? No, it's awesome. It's awesome. We check it out all the time. I mean, it definitely tells you where to shoot, and especially when you have to shoot the scoop to start a mode, it's very helpful because there's a big arrow pointing exactly where you need to go. And also when you start mini wizard modes and stuff like that, there will be a lot of information on the screen. So it's helpful. It's not like it's something I'm referring to all the time. But I am. See? And that's the jumbotron on Guns N' Roses is great, too. It's like, oh, what am I doing? You look up, you look at the screen that's down in the play field, it's like, shoot the right ramp. And I'm like, okay, I'll shoot the right ramp. I think that is needed now on CERN. So, Bruce, tell us. They just put, like, a little person in the coin box that came out to tell you. There you go. Or Elvis. Tell me. Elvis, remember the Elvis doll thing? The dancing Elvis from the Elvis machine? He can talk to you. He can tell you what you're supposed to shoot. The thing is distracting. It's basically a full-size talking Owen mannequin that just stands next to you. There you go. Blame her. So, Bruce, how was Rick and Morty, man? You just got that in, right? Yes, still in the box. Oh, Jesus. What are you waiting for? He's waiting for the clear coat to cure so it doesn't get chipper. It shoots too hard for him. Now, Bruce, historically, you've been fairly concerned on build quality out of Spooky. Oh, yes. So explain to me, if you would, why you've ended up with a Rick and Morty. Because I love the fucking theme. Oh, my God. Themes sold that game for me instantaneously. I am a big Rick and Morty. I actually, here's the funny thing. One of the guys from the bar gave me a giant-sized Rick and Morty. He's three feet. It's Rick. I am going to put that right on top of that friggin' pinball machine Looking at you I really want a lot of Morty But it's just I cannot wait But it will be open next week And me and Zach And then we'll get Ron out here So he can play some new games Yeah I don't get to play new games anymore in my area Because there's no show Are we streaming this unboxing? Probably on Facebook Unless Zach wants to bring his stuff over but we don't even know if we're going to have internet at this place we're opening it up. It's the new house. Oh, I was going to say, where are you going where there might not be internet? It's not going to my house. The cave. Ooh. It's not going to my house. It's actually going to a friend's house. Ah. Because he owns half of it. Oh, okay. Bruce is the, he's the king of the half-owned games. That is. Look at all these games he has. And I mean, I mean no judgment at all, Bruce, but that is the weirdest fucking thing I've ever heard. is this halves-y thing on pinball ownership. Oh, no, hold on. How many halves do you own? Yeah, how many halves do you have? Can't you just trade them in for, like, a full one? I could. Well, with me alone, he had half a Dragon Fist, half a Quicksilver. Yep. I have a half of a Gamitron with Zach. So, Zach, do you have any problems with owning half games? I wouldn't have a Gamitron if we didn't have half a Gamitron. Thank you. I don't like to give up for the body on our own, so. No. Ron, did you have a problem with halves? With me? Not with Quicksilver because it was in my house most of the time, so it was fine. Okay. And the dragonfish, you didn't care because you already had one. I didn't care because I already had one. See? You're like, well, we got the Amatron, it went to my place, and I'm like, okay, I need to room here, Bruce. Yeah, nice. I got my place, but I still have the Amatron. The beauty is that Bruce knows how to fix the shit, so if anything goes wrong, you know, he doesn't have to learn it. Also, Zach actually, Zach is the man. Zach is the man. We've talked about this before. Zach can fix EMs, electrics, anything, you know, solid states. He's the man. Sorry, other men. You're just boys now. Yeah, you're boys. Zach, can we come over and make my Captain Fantastic not suck? Oh, no, we can't make Captain Fantastic not suck. I thought I heard you say you had a great game on Captain Fantastic. Yeah, yeah. It was awesome. It was a great game. It was a great game. No, Chris, I can do exactly. I can fix your game in two minutes. I just go underneath the play field. And no, no, no. and cut the flipper coil wires to the upper flipper. Done. Oh, yeah, Elwin already told me. I know, but you'll still have the flipper still hooked up. You'll still have the inkling to flip with it. And you cut the wires, you're done. If it comes rolling down, it hits the sling and it bounces into the outlane. So if it's rolling down, sometimes I'll just hit the flipper and let it ramp off down onto the left flipper. It's very easy. Just connect the sling, too. I just need to unplug it. So is that the fantastic one of those games that it's really not that good but totally sold because of the theme? Probably. Well, not so much. Well, yeah, the theme because, you know, I was, you know, big into the Tommy movie when I was a kid and all that. But just the artwork is so pretty. It's more like a decoration of my house. You know, it's on right now, and I haven't played it in, like, three days. Like, just because it looks nice lit up, you know, and it's my only EM, too. Say it, Dennis. Say it. Have you been able to find Hitler in the back glass? Yes. I found all the stuff, but unfortunately I do have the star version that's got all the hands on it. You didn't say what I thought you were going to say. And you can find out more about the artwork of Captain Fantastic by listening to Silver Ball Chronicles. Chronicles. Bally, was it part one? Yes. Now, I've got a question for everyone here, and I want to go one at a time. Hi, Mr. Chiolis. Welcome. Why, hi. How is everyone? How you doing? Doing good. Here's a question off the bat. No context. Okay. Well, hold on. Welcome, Jeff. We were just looking at playfield pictures of Led Zeppelin before you came, but we had to take them off. Yeah, you missed out on it. Damn. By the way, yeah. You know, because it is Led Zeppelin. It's no ELO. Give me a break, Bruce. What's with this early morning bucking? I'm too old for this, all right? You are too old. Bucking days are way over. We know that. Your beautiful wife just said no to you. Boom. Now, I have a question for each person. I'm going to go around the room. If you had unlimited money, what would you want next in your game room? Can you about that for a few seconds? You've got to call out a, you know, don't just let people shout out answers. I am going to right now. All right. Dennis, since you're on my one side of my machine. Jurassic Park premium. Premium? Okay. Scott? Scott? I would actually take an Iron Maiden premium. Okay. If you had to twist your arm, you mean. Yeah. I got you. Hey, I'm an Iron Maiden fan. I told you. I snuck out at 13 to go to an Iron Maiden concert with Guns N' Roses opening. Yeah, your one act of rebellion ever. Oh, hey. You're crazy. Okay, fine. I've seen him eight times, so I love Maiden myself. Mr. Franchi. new in box creature from a black lagoon that's acceptable we'll take that David I would go with an L.E.U. Batman 66 with the topper the greatest topper of all time probably one of the greatest art packages aww yeah Kevin O'Connor knocked it into the park Kevin O'Connor did the play field I only did the characters he did all the rest of the stuff That's because of the jokes he's making. Oh, okay. Well, because a lot of people don't know. They put a few with the whole thing, and I'm like, no, I didn't do the playbook. Okay, Zach. Now this should be good. Alien. Alien. Dr. Penn. Jurassic Park, Ellie. Ellie, ooh. Mrs. Penn. I got a real Jones-in, Brucie. A hanker for a hunkin', a hunker for a hanker. I've got a hankering for some serious, like, mint condition Harlem Globetrotters. Nice. I have the perfect one for you guys if you ever want to buy it. Oh, my God. We totally do. It's called Inked. No, it's not called Inked. Oh, my God. We'll get to that in a few minutes. But I do have one for sale. So if you guys are interested, I might be selling. All right. So we'll talk later on that one. We'll have a chat. Steph. I still want a Metallica, man. Premium? Pro? Yeah. Okay. Or LE. You can even go LE. Master of Puppets. Yeah, that would be cool. It's so hard for me to think in terms of unlimited money because my collection is still two games, so I don't even have my baseline. I can't even, like, think outside the box. This is Dream World. Yeah, think outside the box. Dream World. Dream World, I have 300 machines at least, so. Mr. Chios Let's hear all 300 It's a game that hasn't been made yet But in honor of our national holiday today It's the Ed Ed Robertson 50th birthday edition Pinball machine Oh my god, what a spark up there Alright, no, no, no Wow, brown nose or what? No, actually, it's funny David Dennis and I have the same one It's Batman LE, I think that's the one Well, you've got a Batman behind you right now I can see Bruce And a nice shirt. He's wearing his Pinball Profile World Tour shirt. Very nice. He is. I do. Yes. Did you know Jeff Chialis won one of those here? I think he said it once or twice. I'm really, you know, it's hard to, you know, get the feel of it. Mr. Ron Howlett. I'll actually say an Iron Maiden premium. Okay. And for myself, I'm going to surprise everyone and go with what I've always been saying. I want my Avengers. the Infinity Quest. I want a... I would love to have an L.A., but a premium. A lot of Keith Elwins on here. You can get an L.A. You said any amount of money. Exactly. So I go L.A. I do like the artworks growing on me on the side with the glitter. And you said I had any amount of money. I'm going to take a new-in-box attack from Mars also. Oh! Oh, wait a second. Hold on. I know what I want. I want a Q. A Q? I know where there is one. There's only six. Yes. There's only six. Oh, wait. Can I change mine to Pinball Circus? Yeah, you could. Yes, you could. No. I love that elephant. Everyone loves an elephant. So, did I miss? Wait, I'm going to change mine. I want a deep root. Where's the pin bar? A super alley deep root. Why did I have to say the pin bar thing? Oh, it's the best line ever. It's like now everyone's, it's Hulk Hogan saying pin bar, not me. Yeah. We should ask Stu McVicker maybe. Stu, what would Stu be picking? He wants Zingy Bingy. Come on. WWSD. What would Stu do? What would Stu do? What game does Gene Simmons want? Yeah, what game does Gene Simmons want? Surely Stu wants a pristine 1978 Playboy. Hold on. Hold on. Yes, I'll tell you. I want a New Inbox Jokers. New Inbox Jokers? Oh, there's Stu. He wants a New Inbox Jokers. He loves that game for some reason. He does love that game. I don't think he's doing this on a Sunday morning, too, because here's Ron and Bruce, and I know Bruce is a big Jets fan. Jets are playing, but it doesn't matter. So he would rather do a – I don't even care. He would rather do a fucking watch his New York Jets. I actually can watch them today because they are on our local channel because I don't get to see New York Jets games because they're only in their local area because they're that bad. And they're playing the Bills in the Meadowlands today – not the Meadowlands, it's actually called Giant Stadium. And, yeah, I'm not going to be able to, I can't even stomach that team right now. Yeah, Spurs, I would take a Kiss LE. Which one? Thanks, Dean. But wait, if you take that out of stock, then that's less money in your pocket than someone else could buy it. Yeah, so look at it that way, Gene. No, I'll sign it and then sell it for $50,000. Because I'm Gene Simmons of Kiss. Hey, Gene, Gene, I have a couple questions for you. before you get off. I heard you're trying to sell your house in Beverly Hills. Congratulations. $22 million when you bought it 20 years ago for $1 million. That's right. That's the kiss way. That is the kiss way. I'm going to sign all the countertops. Yes. This is where I had sex with this person. This is where I had sex with this person. I'm leaving the panty room intact. Gene, Jane, why did you turn us down on Silver Ball Chronicles to read our outro? Why can't we get you on to do that? You didn't pay me enough money. Come on. He's contracted. He's contracted. He's only with the Slamshell Podcast. We lost Stewie because he had a little flaky flaw in his licensing, but we nailed it. Flaky flaw? Yeah, flaky flaw. Yeah, that's right. You didn't ask me what my favorite game is. No, I did not. What is your favorite game, Stewie? Family guy, L.E. It doesn't even exist. That's funny. So, what else are we going to talk about, kids? I wanted to talk about... Inked. I'm going to talk about... Inked. CPR. What the hell is CPR doing? I know. Let's do anti... Let's... Yeah, CPR. It's... Now, wait a second. Let's... Let's... But rethink kits have always been a great success in the history of pinball. Especially with CPR. But titties! They're terrible. Titties. Titty kits. That's what they should be called. Titty kits. CPR's Titty Kits. You may have a boob here and a boob there, but you can never be boobed without. Well, is it at least, like, really good art, you know, like the 70s? No, they're Photoshopped. It's terrible. And how much did he want for that kit? $3,000? $3,000 for a kit. Badly Photoshop your titty. Badly Titty Photoshop your Harlem Globetrotters. Only, like, what, $2,700, $2,900? It's terrible. And titty your Playboy, which seems kind of doesn't really make sense. And titty your Firepower, although the titty is a little more subtle. It's only on the plastics, but I'm going to be straight up. It looks like it's sock photos from a porn or something. That's the kind of game Steve Ritchie wanted to make. Firepower, the porn version. Why Harlem, though, right? Why Harlem? No, this is awful news. I have not heard of this, and I am very upset. I mean, honestly. Did you see this yet? This is Dr. Dr. Pin just showed me. And honestly, OK, I would not be a huge fan of this, even if it weren't on Harlem. But truly, you just heard me. It's like it's like my my holy grail right now. And I just and I just am not super excited about the fact that they're doing this. Can you send them a 3-hour book calendar and show them that it's 2020? Yeah, exactly. I just sent a link to you there. They should have Woe Nelly as their cover photo on Facebook. Hello, this is Gene Simmons, and I trademark Titty Kits, so don't use that. We have a new addition to us. Hello, Joshua. What's going on? What's going on, man? You're from the Loser Kid. Now we've got the whole Loser Kid podcast on. Yes. I joined at the right time. I turn it on and all of a sudden I hear titties, titties, titties. I'm like, what? Did I click my favorites? Yes, you did. Yeah, you came in for titties 2020. What's next? I think it's going to be the first game that comes with Western Saloon Door so you can put it back in that adult video room, you know, where the other people can't see it. It's beyond the beaded curtain. I haven't seen this bloodlust for firepower yet. I'm sorry to make you raise your eyes. Thank you, Steph, for telling me that. They used to do that. Was it in, was it Banning, California, in the Museum of Pinball, whatever they call it? They'd have this separate room where they had, yeah, they had, like, the sexy girl in there. Yeah, the sexy girl and Big Bang Bar. Like Franchi said, it was literally like the saloon doors. Like, you went in through a curtain to play these adult games. I don't even think you can get these in Utah. They're outlawed You can't wear your mask, so don't worry about it You're good, yeah No booze, no ink but you can wear your mask I know Scott told me he was trying to buy one and it says specifically right in the fine print when he went to go check out it said cannot ship to Utah so he is no longer converting his Playboy to a Playmate Now we gotta ask Josh You're gonna buy the first Deep Root game with the Bible studies and everything down on it, you know? Fire and brimstone. Say it right. Fire and brimstone. Yes. Are you going to buy that? I've got to see it first before I jump on it. Are you going to buy it? Well, if I can be the devil and collect souls, then yes. Yes. That's a good idea. That is a good answer. We do all these, like, Black Knight from the Black Knight's perspective. Yeah, we need more bad guy games where you're the bad guy and you kill innocent people. Well, CPR has another one coming out October 30th, and then another one on November the 6th, so you still might get that opportunity. Yeah, and now I'm committed to looking just to see, are they all going to be conversions, the Titty Edition? So given that... The Canadians are really bad up there. Well, I'm getting to CPR, actually. CPR is about five hours from me in Halifax, the largest city on the East Coast here. 400 people or 500? It's like $500. It's like $500. Yeah. Give or take. I've been there. That's why. I've got a question. I don't know if the sled dogs are in or not, right? I've got to ask Mrs. Penn, though. If it came out with, like, a fireman calendar conversion kit for, you know, would you buy it? For the ladies, yes. Yeah. Only if you were on it. Wow. I'm not a fireman. I didn't know. I didn't know. No, that would not interest me whatsoever. Yeah. So I pulled up CPR's website, and there's a new one that was just posted three hours ago. It's called Blood Lust, and it's got similar vein, like a vampire chick with blood coming down her chin. It's a conversion for 1980 Williams Firepower. But my thing is, they're selling these for how much? $2,500 for this one. Okay, here's the real question. What's the chipping on these? What's the clear-cutting and what's the chipping? Yeah, the chipping? Yes, then I will buy it just so I don't have to hear about shipping anymore. Oh, I agree. They're mirrored back glasses, though. Is it just the decals, or do you get the full play field, the full? You get the full thing. You can get it on the top. Have you seen the toppers? No. No. You will scream in absolute grace when you see them. Now, my favorite thing on Bloodlust is if you go there, and as you will, of course, you want to put it in your shopping cart, you have an option. You can either go with original black and white plastics or pimped. They literally call them pimped plastics? They call it pimped, gold, black, and white. Yeah, inked, flaming, and bloodlust. I mean, are they actually selling these things? Yes. Well, here's the thing. They're offering them. CPR has changed over from that old school printing on the play field thing, and now they've gone to, like, print-to-order direct print. Yes. So they can just have an inventory of these on a digital version and then just print them willy-nilly. Yeah. What I assume here is... They also offer custom plans now, too. Right. Because you want to get your own custom one done. I'm thinking, like, someone made these for their own stuff, and CPR's like, will you let us sell these? See, I think that's exactly what happened. They're converting Paragon. Did you hear that? No. Yes, they're making it into a Stormy Daniels edition. Oh, my God. Wowzers. Hashtag scissor flippers. This Blood Blast isn't half bad. I mean, you look at the play field, it's not as bad as Playmate and... No, it's not. Playmate is pretty... The plastics are where the titty are. Yeah, exactly. That's what I thought. But there's Satan right there in the middle like you wanted for Blood Blast. So if you're looking for that Satan game, there you go. Amen. David, I think you're right about that they're now doing direct print. They're now having to screen, so they're able to do, like, one-offs a lot more easily. But why are all of the, like, when I see this, I see Inked and Playmate and Bloodlust. To me, it seems political. Like, we're sending a message that we want the old ways back. Why else are they all like this? They're all like this. Did Dave Blaketon buy the company or something? He loves that kind of stuff. Franchi would know. So when I sold... Python started this. Yeah. I picked up a... It's Swankarama Pinball. I had a Raven, right? So I took the Raven, I fixed it up, and pulled it into it. Seriously. And then I sold it online to basically our Craigslist or whatever here in Canada. Kijiji? Yeah. Buddy picked it up, and he comes in, and I'm like, man, this is the cheesiest game in the 80s, And, you know, I can't really put it in. First of all, it's not very good. Second of all, it's not really appropriate to have in my living room where all my other pins are. So I'm selling it, and he's like, oh, man, I saw this Translate online of this Army girl in a bikini, and I'm changing that Translate. And I'm like, all right, man, this pin is for you. You're in. So there is, sad enough as it is, there is a market for it, man. There's going to be. No, I'm not judging the markets for it now. But this is a company that's known for doing reproductions. They're going into conversion kits. They surely aren't naive as to the climate that now exists, the evolution of pinball. But all of this reminds me of those European Translight sites where it's all sort of like soft core porn. Yeah. And that's not what CPR's reputation was. So to me, I'm just curious, why are they embracing it? Because you've launched three, and they're all softcore porn. They are. CPR, master of the titty kit. I'm just saying, yeah. It's like a Rama pinball. It ain't swanky. It ain't my pinball. To me, it seems tone deaf. Well, but think about it this way. I mean, we're looking at the used market right now, and the used market has exploded. Prices for the used pinball machines are through the roof. And so if you can buy an 80s pinball machine for two grand versus, have you seen, what is it, not Creature from the Black Lagoon, but Congo? Congo's up to almost six grand now. It's like we're getting out of hand with these prices. Maybe they're trying to capitalize on the market because three grand for a conversion kit on a $1,000 to $2,000 pinball machine might be appeasing to someone. That's not. First, how many people are going to do all this work to it? Not many. Yeah, true. Or how many people can do it? First, can do it, want to do it, and then the theme, how many people are really going to want to have this in their house? I mean, it's not Fraggle Rock, let's be real. No, that would be a great theme. That would actually be a fun theme. So I wonder if, like, I called them up and I was like, hey, I really want a Fraggle Rock pinball machine, just like, you know, hypothetically. How many tits do you want on that? Well, the average straggle, the average straggle schmuck has four tits. So you do the math, okay? But if I wanted them to do that, would they do that for me? I think if you pay it up, oh, yeah. I want the total recall three-tit version, if you have that one. I already said that. They actually have a form on this website where they'll say, if you have an idea and you want to work with us to do what they're doing here for the other ones, please contact us. So they're up for it if you got the money. Okay. I realize it's 2020, and it's horribly politically incorrect to do all this stuff. But if nobody's doing it, then there is a market for this. Exactly. And if they're buying it, that's the bigger market. How many do they have to sell to make it worth their money? You know what? We're all high in moral and all that kind of good stuff there. What are the most searched websites in the world? Hold on. Hold on. You just said us. I'm not in that high in moral trap. I was just going to say, Pornhub is his, like, homepage. Come on. We can't be naive to think there isn't a market for this crap. It's not. It sounds like nobody here, all of us, are not interested. I'm not interested in the artwork, but I think the theming idea is a great idea. Yeah. It's just the taste. I think it has some serious potential. I just wonder about, like, the people who they're designing these for. Like, who the heck are these people? Who's doing the market research on these? Right? I mean, I'm skeptical. I think there's a market for re-theme. Oh, I've been to Amsterdam. It's really bad. There might be a market for this kind of stuff. I don't know. Maybe. I would think there would be more of a market to re-theme to, like, themes people like, though, not this generic stuff. Yeah, but there's no – Well, yeah. There's no reward without sacrifice. So, yes, I mean, they would actually have to invest some resources, unlike this. I'm surprised people are deep-rooting this. You could get, like, you know, like the Sherlock Holmes CPR re-themed kit and stuff, all those, like, non-popular themes. That would be a great idea. Go Disney style, just grab some stories that don't have, you know, you get the built-in. But instead we just get tits. Looking at what all comes with these kits, I am curious, where is the pin bar? Yeah, exactly. I mean, look at the toppers. I posted them in chat. Look at how. Yeah, that first one's my favorite, the cabbage patch. You're sure there. I think they take the Zac Stark button out and they put a fleshlight in there. Yes. Now, I have a really bad thing now. Hold on. I have a really – CPR has actually gotten one further, even worse, than these three kits. They are now making Nugent playfields. And we know how politically – Oh, my God. They are playing – I better give them a call. I know. They are making Nugent playfields. So that is so unpolitically correct. I think those are market for douche games. They're not, like, sought after. They're not bad. It's Mike Coven of Sea Witch. Sea Witch. Yeah. Sea Witch is better. They made every classic Stern all the time. Whoever would put that guy on an interview. God, you know, that's really ballsy, too. I got an Easter egg for you guys. If you look at the Beatles and you go down right between the flippers, there's all the song inserts. and each one's titled a different song. Right above that, there's a record player with some records. If you look at the lid, it's a flip-top record player. If you look at the inside lid, the brand name of the record player is Cuban. Oh, nice. There you go. And that was from George Gomez because I was going to put Gomez on there, and he said, no, put Cuban in there. That's cool. That's respect. I think he said that on the expo video. That was pretty cool. Yeah, you did. Yeah, I always do stuff like that. On the Guardians of the Galaxy, there's a nod to, oh, God, I forget his name. Who did the artwork on Batman 89? Name some big pinball artists. He's one of the big ones. Perez. Nope. Kevin O'Connor. Nope. Oh, my God. Samba Yeti. No. No, no, no. Yes, Ferris. Paul Faris. So on the 89 Batman, in the inlanes, the two inlanes, he's got the Batmobile coming in on one side and the Batwing coming in on the other side, sort of following the travel lane. On Guardians of the Galaxy, I put the good spaceship and the bad spaceship in those same areas, just as a little nod to Ferris. Is it hard to get Easter eggs in? Like, does the manufacturer say, hey, what's this? Or do you just try to pass it? And it's like on the Beatles, like just for no reason whatsoever, if you take the left orbit plastic off, underneath there, there is an actual beetle, a beetle bug. And on the back of his, you know, shell, it's got like a British flag painted on there, and it says made in Robert Englunds. And I don't even know why I put it on there, but I did. But they didn't question it whatsoever. They're just like, why is there a bug on here? They didn't say anything. But they didn't say anything to Presley or Rachel Bass or anything like that? No, they said nothing. Well, they didn't know. You know, they didn't know who they were. It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission, right? Yeah, yeah. Even on Guardians, underneath, you know, in the shooter lane, there's a ramp. And if you take that ramp off, underneath it, it says, you said it were the Guardians of the Galaxy, bitch, or whatever that line is from the movie. Now, you know, it's a Marvel product. They're huge, and I'm putting the word bitch on there. And they didn't, I don't think they still knew that it was going to be under a ramp. It was just visible on the art, and they approved it. I think on Avengers, I think there's an ant under one of the ramp flaps or something that's under there. I think Zombie Eddie showed that. It depends on what you do, because on the monsters underneath the stairway, I put the Grandpa's Play Ghoul magazine. You know what? You've got to check out these CPR ones. What are their Easter eggs? Oh, God. People buy them? They should have a counter for everyone they sell So they should definitely win And they should have celebration when they get to double digits Well by the way Gene Simmons you need to trademark Kitty toppers right about now Already done Of course They're available on kissonline.com Right now Hey kids I got a boogie Sorry I couldn't say very long And also too with COVID I can't be in this large group You know it's too big It's outside my bubble the Canada border. It's been closed, so it is good to see all of you. We're Skyping, and I can see Franchi and Scott and Dennis and Bruce. It's nice to hear everybody's voice. I hope everyone's doing well, and thanks for the invite. Baby, you just says bye-bye. Bruce, your headset seems to be muted, even if you're... He's pumped it, he did. See you later, Smith. Jep Hewitt was left. Okay, let's get those Zeppelin pictures back up. Yep, back up. But Nugent, you know, that's pretty surprising that they actually made that play field. Eh. Yeah. Eh. What's the word? Whatever. I'm scared to sort of admit this, but one of my best friends is the drummer for Ted Nugent right now. Oh, I'm fine. I have no problem with that. I like the pin. I don't think there's as much controversy redoing things that already exist. Yeah. But, I mean, does CPR continue? It looks like they're going to have two more games out in the next two weeks. If someone's actually just already, like, done this art because they're doing these conversions and so CPR isn't having to pay the artist to come up with this stuff, then, I mean, I guess so. Why not? It's not costing them anything. They only have to. Does it look good for that company? I don't think particularly. But CPR is not like a normal manufacturer. Most people are only turning to them to, you know, clean up their games, you know, I'm trying to – it's like – it's a parts place. It's not like a – it's not something that's really consumer-oriented to the masses. Are they taking any heat for this, or are people just mumbling? Yeah, because, I mean, I think they're getting the heat that we have here, right? That's – we're the, like, you know, the podcasters and the folks on Pinside and stuff. Nobody else in the audience. But at the same time – I've seen a little on forums, and some of it is, yeah, the kind of cheesecake art nature of it. And, again, they're not selling the games outright. I think more of what I've read in terms of complaint has been in the Mrs. Penn vein of why are you taking a classic hit like Harlem Globetrotters and turning it into this? Yeah, why don't they do this like Stellar Wars? Yeah, yeah. What about Stellar Wars? Or Pocahontas? Where's the pain bar? Where's the Orbiter One conversion? That's what I want. Yes. I'm making a conversion kit for Hercules. Xena. Yeah, that would be cool. Bugs Bunny. Her please, her please. That's exactly what I thought of. So, yeah, I just don't think this is the time or place anymore for this kind of stuff. I hate to say it. It's just. You know what? This might be the perfect time to bring this up. Wanting to do a Betty Page pinball machine. And the reason why is because she's an idol to as many women, I think, as she is men. It's a very different scenario with her where people don't look at her and go, oh, that's smut. There's women who consider her a hero and, you know, like sort of a feminist, you know, idol and different things like that. So would that go over? Would something like that go over these days or would they just blanket it as like, you know, no, that's smut and that's unacceptable? Well, there's a line between classy and trashy, right? Thank you. I think that that could be a flop, depending on how you costume Betty. But you'd have to have the center page or the centerfold Betty page on there at some point, right? I mean, it's not, like, going to be a fully clothed Betty page. Yeah, I guess so. I don't know. I mean, yeah, I think that that would go over like a box of rocks to the head, honestly. I agree. I think if she were still alive and you were to work with her on the pin, that could make it acceptable. But given that she has passed away, it would be seen as a man coming in and finding a way to do pin-up art. Would it count if I worked with her in the past because I did when she was alive? I don't know. Does she tell you that Will is a pinball machine? I do have a sign. Maybe if you work with a family, though. You're a wonderful fellow. So if I'm a wonderful fellow, you can't be mad at me. Draw me like one of your Batman girls. Oh, do you? Put me in the picture. Later on, we'll go into that 1912 Model T. You have not lived until you've had a phone conversation with a 75-year-old woman about pubic hair. Let me tell you. Oh, okay. Let's go double the advocate. Was Elvira the newest one? Proper. What? Proper. I didn't see public blow back to it. I don't think it was proper, though. Again, now in 2020. As I say, it was acceptable. I was on record. Why is it acceptable in one, now I'm going to be a devil's advocate, why is it acceptable in one circumstance when it's not in another? Because Elvira owns it. She had creative input. She was basically a major influence in that. It's not, oh, let's take this lady with pretty titties and put her up. No, that's part of her act. She has the power. She's the one in control. When you're just taking someone out of context and without them really having the explicit consent and control, that's when it gets dicey. But because of Elvira's character, because Cassandra has that control over it, because it's done with her blessing and her input, it's fine. but how do we not know that these models were done just for this for the part in most of the cases it's because I mean we're talking you go back to things like Paragon and stuff Save the Slave Girls sort of things and it's an all male team doing it it's a male fantasy and there were commercial reasons for them to do that but as Steph noted when you have someone who is it's about them, it's their content they want to be sexy It's not an issue about whether or not something looks sexy. It's about who's setting that definition. Is it a man coming in saying, this is how I want women to be perceived? Or is it a woman saying, this is how I want myself to be perceived? That's how I interpret it. But don't forget, most people don't see both sides of that, though, either. Sure. And that's the problem I'm having. Not the problem I'm having, but the problem I'm trying to bring up is people can see Elvira, and they don't know that she was behind it all. You know, most people from outside that know from pinball that she's very involved in the game, she does all the speech, she does that kind of stuff. If they're just looking at the pinball machine, and that's why they had the nudity or the inserts for both the original two Elviras, where it covered up her cleavage, and now they see it again, and it's 2020, and they don't know that she's behind it, is that still a good thing to show? I'm sure someone will take issue with it I mean considering that someone made a boob cover up for her in the first two games which I personally think is hilarious yeah they actually have the sweater model you know where it just covers up everything up to her neck you know I mean isn't art always going to have a degree of controversy when it's in a risque field though I mean you're never going to make everyone happy Christopher can tell us more than anyone that you can't please everyone all of the time with with the creative work. Well, according to Bruce, you can't please anyone any of the time. Is that true? Yeah. That's my favorite Bruce-ism. It is. And it works, doesn't it? That's how I live my life, Bruce. People tell me, Dennis, I hate everything you've done. I said, I can't please anyone any of the time. So we just have to accept that. Franchi makes the best chalupas in the industry. But I guess going back to what Franchi's saying, though, Could you do any female that has passed away? Like Marilyn Monroe. I mean, Marilyn Monroe is very, I think you could do that very classy. Do you think there would be something for that as well? Well, the problem with her, I think, is that a lot has come to light since her death about how she was manipulated by the system and all that. So that's not quite the same. Whereas Betty Page was, no one was telling her what to do. She just did it. She was in control. Yeah, it was what she wanted to do was her freedom, you know, and that's why I think so many women, you know, look up to her. It's odd that women would be able to gravitate to a pinup. But, you know, I mean, her hairdo, like she just set so many trends and all that. That's why I think that might be the only case where you can take something. Well, and Elvira. There's probably a few more out there. But that's why I always thought that Betty Page would work, because if you understood, you know, Betty, you know, if you read a book about her, read her biography or like that, you'd understand that she's, you know, she's basically a mirror of Elvira. She was in control. She was doing her thing. That was what she wanted. So, unfortunately, you're always going to have the people that, yeah, yeah, Marilyn was just pushed around and, you know, here, wear this, dye your hair, change your name. That's not really being in control, you know, unfortunately. And unfortunately drugged half the time to do her stuff that she had to do. You know, she was. And then she was put on a pinball machine. And then taken off. And then taken off. So, yeah, it's just, I don't know. How many do you think CPR is going to make of these? There's no reason to stop. Less than five. Yep. I mean, they have, what, like eight blank spots right now? Yes, underneath, yeah. Unless they're shooting blanks with the rest of them. I can't see him selling. I mean, just given the price and everything and that you're turning a classic like Harlem or Firepower into some nothing theme, I think that they sell less than 10 of any of them. This is the 70s grandpa who back in the, like, he's 70 now, but was collecting Playboys in the 70s. I mean, it really is in that vein. It's a very targeted audience. audience. I don't really see anybody really under 60 buying these things. Get off my lawn, you bastards! Give me that Playboy first. I mean, even for that sort of collector, I think it would be, for a lot of them, it might be a bridge too far to take their 78 Valley Playboy and turn it into generic Playmate. Oh, no. They would buy another one. I think they would buy, you know, it's the guy who buys a, who wants to fix up an old car. They specifically look for that project car, and then they do it themselves. I'd rather buy a Harlem Globetrotters if it was a rat. Restore it to a Harlem Globetrotters. You're going to go through the trouble. Yeah and that where I think most people in the hobby will be Because you bringing back a piece of history then You not tarting it up I think somebody did this conversion themselves and now they just posting it on the website Did they? Did they, though? We don't really know. It was bad. I just imagine someone who's just like, I bought Photoshop, and here I am. Yes, that's what it looks like. Maybe I could sell it, but I'm not actually going to do it myself. I've never owned a Harlem in my life, because I'd be like, where are the sound roms? Where's my inked sound, Ron? I should be able to hear that tattoo gun going when I start that start button. Where's my Beavis and Butthead game? That's what I want to know. Where's my Beavis and Butthead kit? That bridge has well passed. No, it hasn't. No, no, no. Ron, Bruce, Chris from Cointaker, and myself, we're going to get something going here. We're going to get this thing made. It's going to be back on the air again next year. Maybe after that, if it's a big enough hit. Yeah, that's what they've got to wait for. That's the thing. Ron, what would you convert to a Beavis and Butthead? What would you be willing to sacrifice? A willingness to sacrifice? Stars. South Prairie Bay. Gilligan's Island. No, Stars. Gilligan's Island. I like the place field. If you go to Gilligan's, it'll still suck, though. Yeah, exactly. Stars is a great game, and you'd want to go back and play it more and more. Oh, different rule set. We come up with a new rule set. We got a cool toy. Oh, so you're going to do a full V-Theme with bent rules. Yeah, bent rules. Yeah, Mike Judge has to come in, you know, do the voice. You know, come on. Were you voiced by one of a kind game? Yeah. Hey, well, that happened for Metallica, but, of course, James Hetfield was the one who asked for it. So, yeah, he voiced it. But I don't know. And the other thing is, you know, if they actually did a Beavis and Butthead pen, my only question would be, like, is Mike Judge doing the voices? Is he on board? Because if he isn't, then I have no interest. Because he literally is every voice. So if you don't have him, what's the point? yeah but you know you've got a bounty of shows that you can tap from and then just rent them out for a couple hours yeah no but just rent them out and say okay now say something really pinball specific you know you know just get a handful of those and then send the TV stuff you're like a pinball wizard or something hey baby she drained his ball what the hell you've been pulling my plunger boy, you know, it just... It's gotta be a great game, too. Ah, you got a jackpot. You're gonna score. I scored. You're the boy that's been whacking off in my suit, man. You know, that's... The problem is, what would be, if you were gonna make the D.Va-Symbody game, what the hell would be the wizard mode? What would be the whole rule set? Rules? Where we go, we don't have rules. The whole point is to score. Yeah, that's exactly it. I mentioned this when we had Keith Elwin on, and he was like, Well, it had to be a couch. And I'm like, ah, perfect. You can just repurpose the mech from the Spins and Spinball Party. You're in. There's got to be a switch mode. Is it a wizard mode or is that a frenzy? Yeah. Well, the switch mode is totally just a butthead just giggling. Well, it has to be Cornholio mode or Cornholio multiball or something. It has to be. Absolutely has to be. But what would be... You see action button for frog baseball? Action button. Because what do they do in a video game where they have the console game, the whole point was to get to a GWAR concert. Yes, it was. That was the whole thing. And it had two alternate endings. There's one you got to watch GWAR. There was another one that you could actually get on the stage with GWAR. Then there's the Atari one that me and Bruce played, which is just the button masher. Which, if you get to the end, Bruce, do you remember the two options you have at the end of the game? Yes. It was to go... No, I don't. Not fully. Not enough to explain. Destroy Earth was one of them. and the other one was Visit Uranus. And the planet turns around and it's just a big butt and they fly into it with their toilet spaceship. Yeah. Exactly. Why am I laughing? What the hell? That's the best option. Yeah. Well, we tried both of them. I got it on film. I'm telling you, as heartbroken as I am, I still would have rather had Venture Brothers. Who? Venture Brothers. Who are the Venture Brothers? The Venture Brothers. You guys never watched Venture Brothers. It was on Adult Swim for like 17 years. It was so awesome. And they didn't get the last series or the last season. Yeah. But it's hilarious. Oh, well, it's very well done. Too bad. Hey, guys, we've got to run. You've got to run? You've got to take care of that stuff, man. I know, man. You know, this toilet paper, like, quarantining thing is just really, really getting me. Could be dairy. Could be dairy. It could be. It could be, yeah, like a nut allergy, maybe strawberries. I'm not sure. We'll see. But we have to, I know, we've got to go run and, like, actually see if our children are alive and, like, you know, minor details. I'll send you some pictures of a nice globetrotters I have for sale. That sounds like such a good plan. Thank you guys so much for having us on. That was a lot of fun. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Wailover. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Team America World Police. I want that game. Yes, we do. I want that game. Yeah, that would be fun. That would be funny. Shit on your chest, multiball. Freedom is free. You have to get all the songs. Yeah, you have to have the whole soundtrack. America! Fuck yeah! What would be the raunchiest game you can think of? That would be up there. It would be. That's right, Gary. I would like another South Park with all these seasons, not just the first three. Like, you know, really. In a play field that doesn't suck? Yeah. It's got to be its own. It's got to be within the universe. A totally all-new story for South Park. They could redo Family Guy. There's so much controversial topics that they've done on that one. Do you think we should go back to maybe a Family Guy where they did multiple artworks? multiple... You mean Family Guy and Shrek? Do you think we should do that on multiple games now? I still think it wouldn't be a bad idea when they are doing an original theme, like a dialed-in, and then saying, at the time, here's dialed-in, we sell it for six months. Meanwhile, we work on the new art package and display setting for the licensed version we got, and maybe sell that for a few hundred more to pay for the license. I kind of wondered if that would work, but otherwise it seems like it's just better to move along than to keep reusing the same playfields. I mean, people complain that Metallica and Guardians are too close to each other. I don't know. But they didn't reuse anything off either game. It was just the designer just saying, this one worked. I'm going to do a little tweak to make it better. Yeah, that was the Borgs all look like Borgs sort of thing. Yeah. Wasn't there a conversation that Dialed In was going to be rethemed? Yeah. I think that's why people like me just make up a dream of it. I think I was wishful thinking. No, it was conversation. It was conversation. Who the hell would own that game, Dialed In? Dialed In is awesome. Well, if you can convert it to Playmates. I'd buy a Dialed In. Playmates now. Playmates with a Dialed In. Oh, I would convert it. With a scantily cut girl, you have to hit her. I'm waiting for the CPR CD kit to save my Dialed In and make it a better game. Wow, imagine what the cell phone could show you. Oh, my. Oh, my gosh. Like texting would come across the cell phone instead of the cell phone. You're actually logging in the porn hub. You're looking at your porn hub. Check dial 1-800-PHONER and talk to girls live. Can you imagine the ticker going on the bottom of the screen and all kinds of stuff? Oh, God. Ron Jeremy not arrested anymore. Freed. We have found a theme We have found a new theme For Dialed In Poor Dialed In Best shooting game No it's not Oh please people Everyone Get on my side Tell him he is wrong I got some great research For my Lawler episode With Ron on Chronicles When we start talking about Dialed In Some great quotes From Mr. Lawler Obviously I haven't been able To play Guns N' Roses yet, but I do agree with Ron. I think Dialed In's Jersey Jack's best playing game. And I've played all the others. Oh, God. Zach? Zach? What? Help? Hey, Bruce, I'm with you. I wouldn't have Dialed In. I thought I was going to be interested, and I played it, and I walked away. Me too. I think every Jersey Jack since Dialed In has been better than Dialed In. Thank you. Wow! They're great, but they're better. I played Guns N' Roses and Dialed In and I'd go for Guns N' Roses I played Wonka I like Wonka It's not that bad We got to change our opinions on games Games kind of suck We have to change your opinion on games you like Have you ever thought about maybe liking Dialed In and then just hating it? You're kind of a bad girl sort of thing Yeah, bad girls is great Yeah Exactly I'll take a bad girls Okay so Franchi Getting back You said you played Guns and Roses Did you play the standard edition About an hour and a half ago We were asking about the standard edition Yeah Or worse than the LA I've not played the standard edition I've only played the LA So I have nothing to compare to I think I played the standard edition The pro edition of Avengers though Yeah Did you like that Yeah Yeah It was lots of fun. You know, I'm not here. You guys are going to go into all the details of the code and all that kind of shit. I kind of hate code. I love the monsters. What does that tell you? I'm like you, Christopher Franchi. I'm like you. What I look for in a game is is it fun? Is it interesting to look at? Has it got a lot of toys and fun junk in it and all that kind of stuff? Does it make your three minutes worthwhile or are you just too busy trying to grab points? I don't play that way. so while I can't hold on Chris hold on you said three minutes you're giving yourself that much time come on I thought we were talking about sex we were talking about guns and roses so he's probably got five multiballs going so he's I noticed that too before it became a thing I'm just like what's with all the multiballs but I mean I don't mind it was fun but yeah Avengers yeah Avengers is good it's definitely Certainly, you know, pinball enthusiasts will truly dig it for many reasons. Are you saying the shots are very satisfying? You feel very satisfied once you walk away from the game? I mean, did they not get out of the park with that game or what? Yeah, I mean, it's a home run. Or was it a swing and a miss? I got a new one to add to that list. 110%? I'm just going to say this, which is what Kaneda says every five minutes if he listens to me. That's the sense. I'm just going to say this. I'm just going to say this. Party pal. What? Of course you're just going to say this because you're about to say it. So. Oh, man. World undercloth. Did you know he coined that phrase? Yeah. Okay. Reach will be. Reach will be. Okay. We know Ron's dream theme is definitely Beavis and Butt-head. Of course. What do you guys have as a dream theme? Think about it for a few seconds. I've got a list as long as my arm. One. I'll go first while everybody's thinking. Monster cereals? Yes. I would love Conchoculo, Frankenberry, and Blueberry. Definitely Beavis and Butthead. Betty Page. Halloween. What else? There was more. Damn it. I never think of these things when people ask, and then I'm sitting around at home, and I'm like, oh, damn it. Fucking goddamn bastards. What else? Oh, it's just a little. Rocketeer. I think Rocketeer would be fun. Pee-wee. Pee-wee Herman. I'm good. Move on. Someone else's turn. Yeah, Spaceballs. Spaceballs. Oh, there you go. Home Runs. Drop the bat. Dark Helmet. I just love that movie. My wife and I last night actually watched John Carpenter's The Thing. Okay. You know, a little more obscure, but... Mr. Creasel. If I was to do dream horror, I'd do Halloween. If I was to go and, say, take a theme from the 80s, like a Ghostbusters, I'd say do Die Hard. If I was to say do sci-fi, I'd say do Dune. And I would say, if I wanted a comic, I want Wonder Woman. I like your Die Hard. That would be really cool. I think Die Hard would have sold gangsters back in the day, and I think it still would. Does Dune still have, like, sting on it in his underwear or something in the artwork? No, I'm thinking with the new movie. Oh, the new movie, okay. If the movie's successful, I could actually truly see Stern going in and saying, let's do Dune, especially if they decide to do more than one movie. Joshua. Fifth Element. Ooh, Fifth Element. Oh, Fifth Element would be great. I love Fifth Element. Remember, it was supposed to be the Star Wars of my generation. Yeah. Joshua. Joshua's kiss beats the Phantom of the Park. Oh, wow. They can't all be winners. I tried that. They wouldn't give it to me. I still think, I really want to, I don't know. I think Legend of Zelda. I think we haven't really done the video game avenue for a while, and I think Zelda would do gangbusters just because you look at the numbers on the top franchises, and it's one of those top ones. Would you be willing to voice Link for us? Yeah. Josh, are you a big Zelda fan? All the way, man. I have every game that's been made. I've got a tip for you then. Go to your local Hallmark store, and they have this really cool metallic gold Zelda cartridge Christmas tree ornament available right now. I think I've shared on the Eclectic Gamers Facebook page before, but one year for Halloween, I dressed up as the gold cartridge as a kid. What game was originally supposed to be Zelda? Gladius. Gladius. Scott. I want a Rocky III. Go, Adrian! Well, there is a pinball in Rocky III. Well, there is, actually. So I was watching it last night when I was on call, and, yes, it was interesting because I wasn't into pinball when I first saw it before. And when Pauly's walking through the arcade, one part of me died because I know those kind of arcades don't exist anymore, that fun night activity that people go to. And I saw all those, and I thought, you know, I've played the Rocky pinball machine, But having the Rocky 3 would be – the problem is if you want to be all of the Rockies, then some of them are good, some of them are bad. You kind of dial it into the one show that you go back to all the time. And having a Clubber Stephen Lang LE version would be awesome. Hey! He's a wrecking machine rock. Yeah! And he's hungry. Yeah, I'm a little surprised. Why did you pick three? Because most of the time when I hear people talk about Rocky, they either talk about Rocky IV, because you've got to be communism, or Rocky I and II, because Rocky I is the classic. Rocky I and II, so because I had a lot of time on call yesterday and I watched Rocky I through IV, one captures that 70s feel. Like, that was me growing up. Like, I totally got that. But three, it seemed that that was, I don't know, it was probably when I was a teenager. It was in that moment where, you know, it's still a story and he fails and comes back. And I don't know, it just seems like it's something I still think about in life, is trying to maybe finding a flaw in your personality that you didn't know you had there. You know, like when Nick was setting up all those opponents that weren't that good, but Rocky didn't know it. And so I think that... We're getting really deep into Rocky. Yeah, this is really deep. I didn't realize it was this deep a movie. But really, Clover Stephen Lang was, he was perfect for that role. Mr. T, obviously. I love Mr. T. And that film itself made his career. Do you have a prediction? Pain. Pain, yeah. The best is when Mickey's like, he talks about, I want to fight him. He's like, he's a wrecking machine and he's hungry. That's the best line. Do you ever notice when he throws the bottle at the Rocky machine that it has no score windows whatsoever? You don't actually see the score displays until it breaks because it's a problem? Yep. What game did they use? It wasn't a Rocky. Oh, I used to know this. It was an old Gottlieb, but I don't know which one it was. I know there's people on the call who know. I feel like Zach should know this. Can I phone a friend? Zach knows everything. I don't know anything about Rocky. Oh, okay. That's my only blind spot in the world. Oh. Oh. We found Zach's one weakness. It's a Gottlieb. Come on. Yeah, sorry. It's a wide-bodied Gottlieb. I know that really narrows it down. Gottlieb made a lot of wide-bodieds wrong. Is it Paragon? Uh, Haunted House. No. Black Hole? No. Bruce knows it. I know it. That's what I'm not saying. Yeah. Pink Panther? It kind of fits with Slam Tilt in a way. Alien Stars? Not a wide-bodied, is it? Man, that's an 80. Stars? People, if they're still listening to the podcast at this point, are shouting it out. How'd they not know that? They are not. Your listeners don't know anything. Oh. Again, the opinions of... I know you've told me in the past. Yes, I have. I have said it. Say it. The penis game. Oh, my God. Force 2? Seriously? It's Force 2. It's the penis game. So they just put penis in Rocky, is what you're saying? I didn't even remember Force 2 was a game, so I would never have guessed that. Oh, you were better for it. I'm sorry for reminding you. Zachariah. Zach, your pick. I think it's Scooby-Doo. Scooby-Doo. Or two. Or? I haven't seen any of the ones, so I don't know. Maybe they're good. He wants the Scooby-Doo where they're actually not ghosts and they catch them at the end. With or without Scrappy? Oh, without Scrappy. It's Zach's choice. I'm just saying. Oh, no. If there's, like, some mode where you just, like, make fun of Scrappy, that could work. A Scrappy bath toy. Or, like, would you drink on the outlanes instead of, like, Medjie laughing at you at Scrappy? Does Daphne pull off the mask and it's like, it's Gary Stern. It's Jack Geronimo. I can smell the liquor from over there. Vodka, here we come. Okay. But it's like this time for Dennis, the funniest Venture Brothers episode is when they have the Scooby-Doo type of people in there, the mock-ups. Oh, that was a good one. And Fred was like this abusive guy who was like driving Daphne around. And Shaggy was freaking out because he's like, am I the only one who's understanding this dog? What's going on? It was a great episode. Miss Steph, your pick. see most of the themes I would go for will never come to pass because I don't think JRPGs and anime are that mainstream that's why they only have a section in a bookstore usually with that in there you know you never know if they want to like make an anime theme like if they want to do Fullmetal Alchemist or Sailor Moon I'm in um assuming that I can actually buy it mainstream going band pin I'm still down for Linkin Park what JRCG would you want? I was going to say the top grossing franchise of all time is Pokemon and they have an anime that's 92 billion dollars it's a big market that people underestimate it's very dated, Cowboy Bebop did incredibly well in the US Aesthetic the Pin at that point, Helsing would also be Aesthetic the Pin I'm going to I have that one on DVD. Oh my god, DIY. Yeah, I love it. I'm going to add on to David Dennis' thing, and I'm going to actually state instead of just Spaceballs, it has to be all Mel Brooks movies. Each mode is a movie. So you even have Blazing Saddles, you have Frankenstein, Frankenstein. I think they have a new pinball company, it's like Spooky Pinball, but it just makes only Mel Brooks. Oh, that would be incredible. Oh, Magic Blazing Saddles the movie. That would be, oh my god. Yes. I'm surprised that Blazing Saddles is in a homebrew or something by now. Oh, my God. I'd laugh my ass off just listening to the beginning parts. And if they put that on TV today now, it'd be a four-minute movie. Done. They cannot do that movie. They cannot do that movie. That would cost me a $400 handcart. Yeah. Nice. Fuck yeah. Of course, Bruce, you only want it if you hit the start button and he says, excuse me while I whip this up. Whip this out? Ludicrous speed! No! All these, the great one-liners. What are you? Surrounded by assholes. He's got them stuck to blow. What are you, chicken? Colonel Sanders? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. Thank you. He was just in a coal mine. Look at his hands. Look at his arms. It's pronounced I-gore. Yes, I-gore. Walk this way. Those are some wonderful, nice knockers. Well, thank you. The all black and white art on Young Frankenstein. Black and white art package on Young Frankenstein. Just rip off monsters. We're Jews. We're Jews in space. Defending the world. that's just a great song at the end of part one the first art critic you know Orson Welles can be narrating the game part of it that's perfect we got the pork and beans frenzy you know where everyone's setting around the fire yeah yeah every bit of that is still better than David's frickin' Attenborough the producers you know oh it'd be great I'd be loving that but that'd be everyone's got their dream themes Some may come to pass, some may not. Thank you. What? What? What's going on? As far as, I was asking some other people this, I want to get your guys' opinions, because you're a well-rounded bunch. And I grew up with, like, alternative music, so sometimes I think I might be skewed, but I kind of think that the Ramones would make a good music pin. Am I the only one? No, I agree with you. Yeah? Yeah. That would be awesome. It would have to be a deep, Richie, kick-in-the-ass kind of game. Yeah, they're very... Fast flow, fast flow. They kind of reach a lot of different people. Even my parents know Ramones songs, even though they don't know who's singing it. It's like the Beatles, though. The Beatles, people hear their songs and they don't realize it's the Beatles. I think it's the same way for Ramones. Heck, they just had the Ramones song in the new Spider-Man movie. I think it's classic teenager. it speaks to that generation no matter what generation you are. I think it'd be great. Yeah, they're like kind of the forerunners of pop punk. Yep. Also, we could just have Rock and Roll High School the pin at that point because wasn't that the movie? Yeah. I vaguely remember that from my childhood. Then you'd have to have PJ Souls up on the back glass and not the Ramones. They'd be in the background. I'd go for just straight Ramones. Imagine, I mean, if you designed like the Ali Supreme where it was all black and it just had that presidential seal logo, the Ramones logo on it. Yeah. How sweet would that be, you know? I mean, if we're going to go all black, isn't that going to be more Spinal Tap, non-blacker? The answer is, how much more black could this be? Spinal Tap would be. Well there's also going to be A life size Stonehenge toy Stonehenge It'll be just about It'll be just I mean I guess 18 inches is still too tall To have clearance but I mean But you're not as confused as them are you It says right here 8 inches high I would be more upset if I weren't so heavily Conceited Hey, remember how somebody came on before and said, like, you know, the Jets are going to lose to the Bills right now? Are they winning? They're winning 10-0. What? Wow. Yeah. Well, what quarter is it? Second quarter, almost half-time. Oh, plenty of time to blow it, Bruce. Don't worry. I guarantee they're going to blow it, but, you know, it's just funny how some people. Well, they're playing the only true New York team, Buffalo. I love my Jersey Jets. Yeah, okay. As long as you know their Jersey Jets, that's fine. Who would win between the Jets and the Lions? Oh, Jets would lose, definitely. You think so? They're the only 0-6 team right now. Oh, you know, I think the Lions actually have, they came one game from being a complete zero goose egg season. They won one game. No, they won two. They're 2-3 right now. No, I'm talking about right now. They had a season, a full regular football season, where they only won one game. So is it Jets? I think the Jets has 0-16. No, they have not. They've done 1-15 against Kotite, was their coach, and they fired him, and I danced the joy dance after that one. Rich Kotite. After they fired him, it just led to a renaissance, and they started a team perennial winner. They actually made it to the AFC Championship a couple times. Wow, that's wonderful. But they lost then, didn't they? Yeah, but at least they made it. Oh, that's a good attitude. That's the kind of attitude a fan of a loser team would have. Yeah. What are you, a giant? I don't watch football. Yeah. I'm a Yankee fan, see, so anything other than a world championship is just failure. It's just complete failure. I have a world championship. Oh, you do? Yes. The Jets are 1-0. That's true. That's true. I mean, you weren't alive when it happened and never got to see it, but that's fine. Doesn't it have that one moment of Joe running off the field wagging his finger? You got it, baby. That's all I need. Doesn't actually the San Francisco Giants combined with when they were originally New York have more wins than New York Yankees, or am I wrong on that? No. No. Yankees have like 20, what is it, 27 world championships? 29. 29 championships. 29? I think it's 27. I think it's 27. Hold on. Snap the other big Yankee fan here. I'm sure she'll set me right if I'm wrong. My ability to trivia is not anywhere near yours. Well, I can name all their championship winning years. I can do it very quickly, and you can just count them up if someone wants to know. 27, you're right. The only reason I remember 27 is because when we were going for it back in 2009, that was Girardi's number. David's face is totally Why are we not talking about hockey? I love hockey Oh let's go 23, 27, 28, 32, 36, 37, 38 39, 41, 43, 47 49, 50, 51, 52, 53 56, 58 61, 62 Oh wait a minute Someone just put it up in chat in front of me Well I was right so far Damn it 77, 78 96, 98, 99, 2000, and then what was it, 2009? Yes. Is that the last one? No, hockey rules. Devils, baby. Rangers. I used to be a Red Wings fan when they were good. Between you and Keeler, us Rangers fans have to talk shit with you all the time. Rangers. What is it? What is it? 1940. Oh, that's not the last year they won, you idiot. I know, but guess what? It's going to be 54 more years before you win it again. You're almost halfway there. I bust out my wife all the time. What's up? What's up? Woo-hoo. Hey, three cups? One cup in the past 70 years. I'll take that any time. Man, who hasn't won since the 40s? Oh, well, no. No, they've won. He's trying an install that would have worked in 93, but doesn't work now. Yeah. But guess what? It still works. Because you still have not had a championship in 27 years. Me? Like, I'm on the team. I never understood the sports thing where you're a member of the team. The team doesn't give a shit about you. They'll leave for another city if they get you. You're halfway to your futility of what it was before. Bruce, do you hate Mark Messier? I hate Mark Messier. Mark Messier is awesome. I hate all the people. He's the savior. And guess what? My wife is the hugest Rangers fan. She has a tattoo of the Rangers. I have a Rangers jacket. Does that count? You have a Yarmir Yager tattoo with a mud flap hairdo going on? I hate Yager, too. But I hated him when he was in Pittsburgh. You hate a lot of people, Bruce. Bro to our baby. Bro to our best goalie ever. Martin, you need to open your heart to kindness. Yes, open your heart to kindness. You let the hate flow through me. Yes. Your hate doesn't make you powerful. Yes. Yes. Yes. I was going to say, you guys are all talking about, like, your teams winning all these championships. Come move to Utah, where we've had one team combined out of all the sports we have won one championship. Okay, but there hasn't been a real team. When you name your team the Jazz, that's a problem right there. Okay, they are not the Jazz, sorry. Real Salt Lake is a real team, and they took on David Beckham and the LA Galaxy, one of the hardest. It's like if the Jazz won against Michael Jordan. Wait a second. Wait a second. They need to have them. Wait a second. What about the soccer? That's pretty bad. That's bad. That's pretty bad. But still, David, our rugby team's awesome, okay? Yeah. And don't get them started on lacrosse. All right, hold on. Checkers. Two guys from Utah here. What should they change their name to? Because Utah Jazz makes no sense. They were from New Orleans originally. So they were the New Orleans Jazz. New Orleans can change states to Jazz. And Jazz is, you know, yeah. Yes. Okay. It's easy. It makes sense. But the Jazz. Wait, no, actually, we'll swap with New Orleans and we'll be the Pelicans. Oh, what a terrible name. That's a terrible name. I remember when I was in high school and they started having expansion teams and it had some of the worst names, like Orlando Magic. Like, really? Just Magic? Just Magic. Or Miami Heat. Like, okay, we literally couldn't think of anything, so it's hot in Miami, so we're going to call them the Heat. Okay, but New Orleans could be the Paper Clippers. Yeah, the New Orleans should be the Voodoo. That would sell a billion jerseys. Nice. Jurassic Park was a big deal, so we just went Raptors. We're like, ooh, yay, Steven Spielberg. That's actually a good name. That's a good name. No one do Voodoo like you. Yeah. Name your team after an animal or something. Don't name them after a Carl Weathers condition, like heat or something. Unless it's the typhoons or something or a hurricane. Yeah, we didn't make fun of the pelicans. Cyclones, hurricanes. Yeah, that's fine. The Moncton Beavers. Don't name them after animals that are stupid. No, you've got to do it. It's one name after cute things. Like Miami Dolphins. Think about that. You're a Miami. Baltimore baby seals. Miami Dolphins. You are a football player, and you have this cute little seal that looks like Flipper on the side of your helmet. How embarrassing is that? Think about it. Flipper, Flipper. They could change the name to the Redskins. That's available again. Yeah, exactly. All the Canadian teams would beat the crap out of those seals. Why didn't they name the Redskins, rename them the Sunbirds? The sunburns? It would work well. We have a town here in Utah called Beaver, and their mascot's the beaver, so we go watch high-flex, you know, the beaver beavers. The new NHL team for Seattle's name is Kick-Fucking-Ass. What is it? The Seattle Kraken. The Kraken? Actually, that promo video was really good. It was real. I was like, wow, I want to follow this team. So bring it back to pinball. No, don't fuck this up. When I go to Allentown, the Allentown show, they have a minor league baseball team there that has one of the best names I've ever heard. Iron Pigs. Yes. The Allentown Iron Pigs. We have one of the best ones here, the Albany River Rats, and our logo was this big rat that looked like horrific Chuck E. Cheese, right? Yeah, that would look you up. Yeah. Yeah, it looked like it. It was the devil's team for the longest time before they changed. And they moved to, like, Florida or some shit. Boo. Like I said, we're going to end this up by singing to Dennis. All right. What are we going to sing to Dennis? So you can hear what real voices the singer sounds. The Pina Colada song, the official song of the Spoon Kill podcast. How about the Macarena? Oh, God. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. She was a showgirl. Oh, yeah. A few years ago. Where's my Barry Nail on tape? She was a show. Now it's a disco. But not for Dennis. She's getting ready to disconnect from the call. Today's TPS, I think Zach tried to sing Radiohead. I'm not quite certain. Oh, my God. I'm just a sweet transvestite. Now, that would be a good theme. Oh, yeah, Rocky Horror Picture Show. I tried to bring that up earlier when Scott was talking about Rocky the movie. Oh, I know. Yeah, you know what? Awesome. I can't name names, but I'm going to say that. I spoke to a very high-up pinball person, and we were talking about themes, and I said, Rocky Horror, and they said, Too Gay. And I'm like, Really? What? No way. The only part would be, the hard part would be probably still in main day would be the, what's his name? Tim Curry? Yeah, Tim Curry's themes, you know, with the outfit on. That would be a little hard to show off in a. Well, that would be the only hard part. But, yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah, it would be like, we're gay, or like, you know, him dressed up in drag, you know. Yeah. Some middle America would be going like, no. That's a spooky game. Yeah, I agree. That's a spooky game, 100%. Well, I listened to George Gomez do an interview, and he said that he worked on Satan's Hollow, and that game did not sell as well because of the whole Bible Belt thing. In the South. Yep. It had his joystick on it, the official George Gomez joystick. That sounded really bad right there. Yeah, you're talking about George Gomez. It's true. It's the GORF. Satan's Hollow and Tron joysticks are the same joystick. That's George Gomez' design. That's the one where you have to cup the bottom? You play with the trigger really well. Well, the trigger's right on the stick. Exactly. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. All right, Ronnie, wrap this up. Yeah, I think it's time to wrap this up, Bruce. Okay. See you later. Bye. So let's say hi to friends of the show. Hi, Zach. Zach's here. Hi. Hi. Hi, Steven Bowden from Foma Bonus. Who is busy at a tournament, I believe. Oh, we did get one letter. Do you want to talk about that now, or do you want to talk about that next show when we have a real show? So this isn't a real show? Did you just insult all the guests? Why don't you ever say hello to me? by insulting, you know... Yeah, well, he told me I can't. I want to, but I can't. I'm slightly offended I never get a hello. Well, I'm not allowed to say too much on your show because, you know, I feel like he's held back from plugging our show, and you stole Stewie from our show, and now you want to steal Gene. What the hell am I supposed to be? Am I supposed to be happy about this? No, not at all! I can come back whenever you want me to, Bruce. Whenever you want me to. I'll be here for you. Bruce, there's plenty of face over at the super awesome studio. Come on. I love that. I love that. And their ratings are way higher than ours, too. Yes, they are. We get 27 people now. I got to say, though, it feels pretty legit to be on the Clusterbuck. This is pretty cool. You're not the coolest podcaster until you've been on with Slam Tilt and Clusterbuck, so I know we've made it now that we've been on here. You are now DK. We're Slam Tilt. We don't fuck here. We don't fuck around here. We don't fuck at all. We're getting close to awards season. Super awesome pinball show and Loser Kid. Both are the ones scoring all the major interviews. Is this going to be a bloodbath? Is this going to be the media war we've been longing for? All we care about in this, all of us, the only thing we care about is Twippies. Christopher Franchi, Christopher Franchi. Oh my God, I do. Twippy so bad. Promise me, if we win, you come up on that stage and you break our Twippy for us. Yes. Absolutely. Here's the deal. You can't win because we just recorded with Jack Danger. And we're recording with him on Wednesday. And there is a little shout-out to you guys at the end. Okay. Just remember that it was done all in good fun. All right. Oh, my. Okay, well, whoever wins the Twippy, I want you to come up and, like, have a peel-off vest like they do in, like, the 90s basketball things and have the Tim Curry outfit. Yes. I'll do that. I'm going to quit. If I don't win it, I'm going to quit. Well, what we need to do, we need to pool together, Because here's the problem is that we're all going to have, like, all of our friends voting for us and all that, so that we're all going to have these little chunks of votes, and then Canada's going to fucking win again. So if we can pick, you know, a name out of a hat and everybody vote for that podcast, we might have a chance. If you notice, we always tell people not to vote for us. Nope. Everybody's going to vote for Chronicles, and we'll all be done. There you go. Wow, that's shortish all around. What the fuck is that all about? Loser Kid, can you do me a favor? You're interviewing Jack Danger? Yes. Ask him when those, what are they called? If Dennis knows where I'm going, ask him when the video capture cards are coming out for the CERNs. Yeah, when's the video capture cards coming out with his name on it and the higher price and everything? I can't wait to see how much they're going to cost. Yeah, I have to do that. I still don't understand why they don't make them themselves. I don't get it. Well, I've got to put my branding on there so I can make more money. CERN is producing them in-house. Actually, they have produced them in house. I have one. I got the first batch that they sent them out for sale, to flip them out at least. And so Zach sent them out to a whole bunch of streamers and sold some. And they were all shipped by the time Stern tried to pull it back. So the ones that went out, went out. They're fully functional. It's a done product. It's not. No, it's not. It doesn't have a sticker on there saying. Right, right. Yeah, there isn't any branding on the board. There's going to be a lot more money. I just don't understand why it's taking so long. They're waiting for it to die down. That's the only thing I can think of. It's going to die down. Because when it comes out and it's like $100, you're going to be like, whoa. You can wait another 12 months. No one's going to forget that they were for sale for $40. They're going to be $149.99. We're ending in the typical slam tilt way. That's good to end. Yeah. Yeah. I thought the typical slam-to-way was the eBay listings. Where's the eBay listings? No, that's only when you come on for the regular show, which you'll be on soon enough. Anytime. And if anyone actually still has this show on at this point, it's amazing, because we're at... What about Game You Like, Game You Hate? Well, Bruce could name the same game twice, so... No, he does. I know. Let's look on a sheet. No, no, no. I always say Dialed In is bad, so don't worry. We got that covered. My favorite slam-to-way is a bad game. is where you guys went and stole every segment from every other podcast. Yeah. That was just the episode. I think Ryan C. was on that. I think that was his idea. Oh, that was fucking classic. I got to get him, Fred. We're like, how are you going to top this one? And we're like, oh, we're just going to steal every fucking segment from every other pro-life show. Yes. That was pretty good. Though I'm going to guess your best show, listener-wise, was probably your Lyman interview. That is correct. Yep. That is correct. I mean, he's actually said if we want him back on. And then Head to Head got him on right after that. After he hadn't been in an interview for 10 years. we got him. We're like, yeah! And then like two weeks later he's on head. I'm like, god damn it. Damn it. We can't get any exclusiveness here. Nope. Oh well. Maybe we'll get the ones on together one of these days. The ones? Wait a minute. Now there's more than one. There's the ones. The ones. Ray and Keith. Yes. The one's number one and the other one's the one. The one. There you go. Boy, it takes a lot to get, you know. But if you have the one and the one, you also need the number two. Oh, that's a great idea. One plus one. You said number two. Duty. Duty. Actually, Bruce, one in the one I've already trademarked. Sorry, you can't use that either. Ooh, my wife's has got me good things. Kit Kats. Mint dark chocolate. Minty dark chocolate Kit Kats? And pecans. Did it say Kit Kat duds? No, yeah, duos. Duos? Duos. I thought it said duds. I thought it said duds. You know you're a northerner when you call it a pecan. Becam. No, my grandparents are from the south, and they called them Becams. Define south. Georgia. Okay. I thought you were going to say southern Jersey or something. No. Okay. All right. Yes, the southerly realms of Trenton. Yes. The Pine Barrens. All right. With that, thank you to all our listeners. This has been episode 153. Until next time, say goodbye, Bruce. I don't know the fucking name. Okay. You've only called me on for two and a half hours. I have not done shit. That's been way longer than two and a half hours, but yes. Okay, say... Hold on. Everyone else, say goodbye. Yeah, goodbye, guys. Goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye. Say goodbye to me fucking for once, you bastards. Parting is such sweet sorrow. I miss you all. Quick, let's go for another five hours. No, no, no. Can you fly? Oh my, my. Oh my, my. We can move it if you try. Oh my, my. Oh my, my. We can move it if you try. Oh my. Oh my. Oh my. Oh my. Thank you.