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BDYETP 94: Potter Vs. Predator | Halls of Shame | Uncanny X-Men Review

Bro, Do you Even Talk Pinball·podcast_episode·2h 0m·analyzed·Jun 29, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Harry Potter plagued by hidden AI art; Predator underwhelms with licensing gaps and Pinball Brothers' unreliability.

Summary

Kevin and Nick from Buffalo Pinball discuss two major 2025 pinball releases: Jersey Jack's Harry Potter machine (three tiers, $10-15k) and Pinball Brothers' Predator (starting $11k, ~$15k with tariffs). The Harry Potter art controversy dominates—the playfield artist admitted using AI tools without informing JJP leadership, creating visual artifacts (extra dragon eye, four-fingered hands). While gameplay is widely praised, incomplete code (v0.7) and reliability concerns temper enthusiasm. Predator faces skepticism: weak voice acting for Arnold, blurred footage, high pricing, and Pinball Brothers' poor track record on Queen and ABBA undermine excitement despite impressive playfield design.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack's artist Jesper Abels used AI tools to blend and enhance complex assets without full disclosure to JJP leadership

    high confidence · Jesper Abels statement read on podcast; artist admitted to using AI after initial JJP denial

  • Harry Potter playfield code is only at v0.7 and JJP has poor track record completing games (Pirates took 7 years, Godfather still incomplete)

    high confidence · Kevin cites JJP history; notes code incompleteness as reason to wait before purchasing

  • Predator pricing could reach $15,000 in US due to Italian manufacturing, shipping, and unknown tariffs added to $12,500 MSRP

    high confidence · Kevin calculates total cost including tariffs and international shipping

  • Pinball Brothers cannot secure Arnold Schwarzenegger likeness rights, resulting in blurred face and poor replacement voice actor

    high confidence · CEO statement on Tell All News and Loser Kid podcasts; gameplay footage shows blurred/cropped Arnold face

  • Harry Potter has no wire form returns to in-lanes and features unusual drop-target in right out-lane for ball save

    high confidence · Kevin describes playfield mechanics; notes rarity of this design outside street-level games

  • All three Harry Potter trim levels (Arcade $10k, Wizard $12k, Collector's $15k) have identical playfields and core gameplay

    high confidence · Kevin confirms playfield parity; differences are cosmetics (Invisiglass, shaker, topper, armor)

  • AI artifacts visible in Harry Potter art: dragon with extra eye (from gill misinterpretation), four-fingered hand

    high confidence · Bumpergeist forum analysis; hosts visually confirm artifacts in playfield images

  • Pinball Brothers made Queen and ABBA; Italian manufacturers have poor track record (Pedretti butchered Funhouse, limited hits)

    medium confidence · Nick's critique; examples cited include Pedretti work and generalization about Italian pinball quality

Notable Quotes

  • “Pinball is a work of art. But still, for the sake of a joke, you're melting down over expensive toys.”

    Kevin @ Early segment — Frames community dynamics and the intensity around collecting/pricing

  • “There's a four fingered hand right so like there's like yeah like one of the hand has only four fingers on it”

    Nick @ Art controversy discussion — Concrete example of AI artifact in Harry Potter art

  • “The dragon has, like, an extra [eye]. It's supposed to be like a gill or something, like a breathing hole or something on the side of his head. And when they fed it through the LLM, it turned into a second eye on the side of his head.”

    Kevin @ Art analysis — Demonstrates how AI misinterpreted original art element

  • “They finally you know they're like well we're gonna try Queen we're gonna try ABBA and they're like oh maybe we should do the game that everybody wants us to do”

    Kevin @ Predator intro — Shows Pinball Brothers' hesitation and pivot to Predator after Alien's success

  • “I've never actually seen the movie Predator, so the theme does nothing for me. I like that it's more of an adult theme.”

    Nick @ Predator reaction — Reveals indifference to theme but acknowledges target demographic appeal

  • “It's not a good sign when you're touting that your flippers work correctly. Right? Like that's a low bar.”

    Nick @ Predator criticism — Criticizes Pinball Brothers' marketing of basic mechanical function as feature

  • “Italians don't know how to make a pinball machine.”

    Nick @ Predator segment — Sweeping generalization about Italian manufacturer quality

  • “AI tools were never used to generate full illustrations or replace the handcrafted work, but rather as part of a much larger creative process”

    Jesper Abels (read by Kevin) — Key admission of AI use after JJP's initial denial

Entities

Jersey Jack Pinball (JJP)companyPinball BrotherscompanyHarry PottergamePredatorgameJesper AbelspersonJoe CasspersonDavid ThielpersonKevin Manningperson

Signals

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Harry Potter art controversy created vocal split: gameplay widely praised, but AI use triggered discussions of artistic integrity and game value; secondary market depreciation concern moderates purchasing enthusiasm

    high · Kevin notes 'overwhelmingly positive reception' until art controversy; hosts advocate waiting to play before purchase; James (collector) passed on purchase despite Alien ownership

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Playfield design comparison: Harry Potter praised for complexity and unusual mechanics (no wire in-lanes, drop-target ball save); Predator noted as impressive initially but undermined by execution concerns

    medium · Kevin praises Potter's layout rarity; notes Predator's geometry appears 'janky' in gameplay footage

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Harry Potter playfield art uses AI-assisted generation for asset blending and composition, resulting in visible artifacts (dragon extra eye, four-fingered hands) without full disclosure to manufacturer leadership

    high · Jesper Abels admitted AI use; Bumpergeist forum analysis identified specific artifacts; dragon eye clearly visible in playfield images

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Predator licensing gaps reveal constraints on character likeness rights; manufacturer forced to use proxy voice and blurred imagery; contrasts with Harry Potter's comprehensive movie asset integration

    high · CEO disclosures on podcasts; gameplay footage shows blurred Arnold; Kevin notes lack of character assets compared to full movie representation in Potter

  • $

    market_signal: Both major 2025 releases face pricing pressure and market skepticism; secondary market depreciation ($2-3k loss) cited as deterrent; consumer behavior shifting toward play-testing over pre-orders

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.363

0:00
All right, coming up on this episode of Bro, Do You Even Talk Pinball, we've got Potter versus Predator. We've got a new segment, Hall of Shame. And then we also have a review of the Uncanny X-Men. All that and more coming right up. Double Super Jet Pod!
0:30
I want targets I can hit, and I can shoot. I can go as far as my life. That's right. Nick Lane and Kevin Manning of Buffalo Pinball. Boom shakalaka. Welcome to episode 94. We've done 94 of these. Brody, you even talked pinball for Sunday, June 29th, 2025. I'm Kevin. That's Nick. Nick, how's it going? It's going. It's good to be podcasting. Yeah. We've had some life stuff going, but it's good because now we've got two new pinball machines to talk about. Lots of other good stuff. We've got a ton of giveaways to do. And why don't we jump right into thanking our partners to kick it off.
1:28
All right. Do you want to do the honor? I would love to. All right. Big shout-out, big thanks to the premier, the king of the castle, king of the hill, top of the mountain, flipping out pinball, Zach Money.
1:43
Over to flipandoutpinball.com, the best place to buy a pinball machine, best service in the industry, and just a downright good guy, Zach Money. He's got all the pinballs you can need. He's got used games these days, too. You want to do a trade-in with Zach, go for it. totally there to hook you up.
2:01
I can't say much more. I mean, I'm blowing a lot of smoke up Zach's ass here, but it's well-deserved. He's also delivering on the goods with some giveaways this month, so thank you, Zach. Shout-out to our other partners that we love. We've got Pinball Life, pinballlife.com, for all your pinball parts needs.
@ Artist statement

  • “I'm being an adult. I'm using some restraint, waiting to see, get my hands on it and see where we're at code-wise.”

    Kevin @ Harry Potter conclusion — Reflects cautious consumer stance due to code incompleteness

  • “Alien is fun. I own an Alien. Pinball Brothers did not make Alien. Highway Pinball made Alien. So they've proven at no point that they're capable of making a good pinball machine.”

    Nick @ Predator criticism — Distinguishes Alien's manufacturer; emphasizes Pinball Brothers' weak portfolio

    • Nick Lane
    person
    Bumpergeistperson
    Vuvufperson
    Mina Limaperson
    Highway Pinballcompany
    Buffalo Pinballorganization
    Tell All News podcastmedia
    Loser Kid podcastmedia
    Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
    Jamesperson
    Pinball Lifecompany
    Pinsideorganization

    medium · Kevin cites secondary market losses; recommends play-testing; notes this is 'all manufacturers' and 'most of them' dynamics

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jesper Abels as lead artist brought illustration/character art expertise to full playfield design; AI use suggests potential skill gap in traditional pinball art production

    medium · Artist statement admits using AI for visual complexity pursuit; playfield artifacts suggest limited traditional pinball art background

  • $

    market_signal: Predator absorbing unknown tariffs and international shipping adds ~$2.5-3k to $12.5k MSRP, potentially reaching $15k US retail; pricing strategy appears unsustainable given Pinball Brothers' market position

    high · Kevin calculates $11k base + $1.5k trophy = $12.5k, plus tariffs TBD and shipping; comparison to lower Stern/JJP pricing

  • ?

    product_strategy: Harry Potter code incomplete at v0.7; JJP historically slow to complete code (Pirates 7 years post-release, Godfather still unfinished)

    high · Kevin notes code version; cites JJP's historical pattern; Vuvuf crash reports suggest stability issues

  • ?

    product_concern: Pinball Brothers' track record: Queen and ABBA machines under-performed; company known for reliability issues; Nick dismisses firm as capable of producing quality machines

    high · Nick states zero confidence; notes Pinball Brothers made neither Alien (Highway) nor acclaimed titles; generalization about Italian manufacturers' weak hit ratio

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Predator cannot use Arnold Schwarzenegger likeness or close-ups; licensing limited to non-actor elements (chopper, Predator figure, environment)

    high · Pinball Brothers CEO statements on Tell All News and Loser Kid; gameplay footage shows blurred/cropped Arnold face and replacement voice actor

    • 2:19
    Multimorphic.com, maker of the P3. We've got Comet Pinball. You want LEDs, Comet's got you. We've got Titan. Titan's got some sweet silicone rubber. They've got balls, tools, all that good stuff. And pinside.com. You know, throw the code Buffalo in to Titan. I think they're the only one that's got a code these days, and you'll save 10%. And I said pinside.com, but another shout-out to pinside.com. I mean, what would we do in our lives without the drama of how people melting down, losing their minds with what another adult says about pinside? What would you do? That's a great place to displace all your anger and childhood emotion and trauma. I mean, you could literally go anywhere else on the Internet right now. But, I mean, why not Pinside? It's way more comedic to get upset about a toy. And I don't mean to, you know, I denigrate pinball and I call it a toy out of justice. It's more than a toy. To me, pinball is a work of art. But still, for the sake of a joke, you're melting down over expensive toys. There you go. Here's some air horn for all of our partners. Thank you, guys. All right. It's been a while since I used the soundboard, so that was for Nick mostly. Let's talk about some of our giveaways. Let's jump over here.
    3:39
    So we got 14 entries in chat so far for the giveaways. The first three are from Flippin' on Pinball, like Nick mentioned. We got an officially licensed Godfather pinball banner, $149 value. That's pretty sweet. Nice, yeah. Pretty badass in your game room. Featuring last week, Chris Franchi Art.
    3:59
    Then we got a Mandalorian shooter rod accessory. God damn. You know what? Martha was supposed to be in chat. Okay. Oh. This is when we got thrown off. Last week I had it rigged. I told her to get in the chat, hit the win, and now she's doing stuff with her family. I wanted that. Oh, family. Shooter rod. Come on. I know. And this is like a good third-party shooter rod. Spoiler, we got Modsy Don't Need coming up with a really bad shooter rod, aftermarket shooter rod. This is a good one. It still feels like a pinball shooter rod, right? It's a ball, and it's theme-appropriate. Good job, Stern. Yeah. And then we've got some, if you've got an Avengers Infinity Quest, get yourself some art blades for your Avengers Infinity Quest. Or just, you know, stick them on your wall or whatever. I don't know. Do whatever you want with them. So those are the three from Flippin' Out Pinball. We've also got Pinballers. Sorry, Pinballers, B-A-W-L-E-R-S. They've got a shooter plate for Elton John Pinball. And what's cool about this is, like, normally you have to take your shooter rod out to install a plate like this, but they got a cool little, like, notch cut out, and then you just pop the piece in. So that's real clever. Yeah. So, Nick, you can talk a little bit more about this. No, I just want to thank Pinballers. Pinballers helped me out with my Speak Easy saga. And he was also kind enough to send me a bunch of swag if I wanted to give it away to, like, club members. but I figured, like, let's do the Alan Johns stuff on the stream for anybody that has a game. Looks pretty damn cool. So great guy. He's really helped me out. So I just want to – it's more or less a thing. So you can look him up on Pinballers. That's P-I-N-B-A-W-L-E-R-S slash arcade-cabinets.com. I would just look up Pinballers on Facebook. It would be my recommendation. Send him some likes. He's a good guy, and thank you for your help. Yeah, so if you want to get in on those, if you've got a Prime sub, drop it to us this month. And then, or you can regular sub too if you want, but that'll get you two entries. And then hashtag win in chat. That'll get you in it to win it. If you don't want to sub, donate Prime. That's fine too. Hashtag win will get you in either way. You'll just get double the entries if you are a subscriber. So thanks for your support, and good luck. All right, let's get into some news. Here's the tip. It's the latest pinball news. Show hunt. It's on fire. All right. We've got two hot new pinball machines to talk about this month. First up is the long-awaited, much-rumored, and speculated Harry Potter pinball machine by Jersey Jack Pinball.
    6:39
    They came in three models, a collector's edition for $15,000, a wizard edition for $12,000, and an arcade edition for $10,000. yeah so it's got we'll talk about the art is the whole thing but the cabinet art is for the collector's edition is by Mina Lima they've done a lot of the graphic art and design for not only the movies they've done some books and in the amusement parks too so looks really cool and then the standard edition is more of your traditional like movie character kind of art very kind of dark and gloomy. I think it looks really cool overall, like the overall vibe of the arcade and the wizard edition. Sorry, I'm getting the... Everybody's got different names for their different trim levels, but yeah, I think it looks pretty cool. And there's some extras you get on all of the higher tier models, but what's cool is that all of the play fields are exactly the same. So you can get the arcade edition for $10,000 and then you're getting all the same gameplay features of the upper levels. The Arcade Edition, you don't get Invisiglass, you don't get a shaker, you get a trans light with just the light at the top, not all the way around, no topper, and I think the armor is just basic black armor. That's a pretty good deal. How much is the Arcade Edition? $10,000.
    8:07
    That's pretty good. I like how they went with not changing any of the gameplay stuff. Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty stoked. and I'm considering getting one of these. I want to play it first, but if I get one, it's going to be the arcade, because for me it's like, I'm not a Harry Potter enthusiast. My family are. I've talked about it on the show before. My wife and son are both into it. But for me, I have no personal connection to the theme or anything, so it's not like we're, I must have this, and I've got to get the top-level trim or anything like that. It's got all the gameplay in the arcade edition. That's the one for me, if I go for this. But like I said, I want to get out there. I want to try it, give it a shot, and see. All the reports are that it's pretty good. People are saying they really like it. The layout looks pretty insane from a stuff-on-the-playfield kind of perspective. I like that they have – he's got an unusual in-lane-out-lane configuration. It's more like JGP Pirates.
    9:06
    But on the right-hand side, there's a little drop target that can pop up and save your ball if it's going out there if you have that lid, so that's kind of cool. There are also no wire form returns to the in lanes, which I think is really interesting. And I can't remember the last time, aside from like a street level game, that we've seen that from a manufacturer. So that's cool to see.
    9:29
    I don't know. Nick, what are some of your initial impressions of Harry Potter? Yeah, I mean, this is a theme that does nothing for me. Well, it's got kids in it, so you're out. All right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so my money is safe.
    9:45
    Yeah, to be perfectly honest, I've really not been paying attention to this release. So from what you hear and understand, Kevin, people like this game. It's like the gameplay is good and people are happy. Yeah. Because this is like a big theme, right? So pinball people are never afraid to tell you when they don't like something. Yeah, so up until like the art controversy thing happened, it was overwhelmingly the most positive reception I've seen for a pinball machine. People were losing their minds for this. There was some, you know, obviously there's always critiques of games and things like that, but universally it was pretty much loved and admired.
    10:23
    They've got like all the movies. All the movies. Was it six movies? Five movies? I don't remember. I don't know. They got a lot of movies. All the movies are represented.
    10:34
    It's Joe Cass on code, which is cool. and they brought back David Thiel for the sound. So they're really like, they were trying to check all the boxes with us. I love David Thiel. Chat, what do you think of this game? Has anybody in chat played it? I want to hear from somebody in chat who's played the game. There's a look at the different models.
    10:56
    It's a cool looking game, yeah. Yeah, so I guess do anything else before we want to talk about the art? Kyle Boss has played it and loved it. All right. That's sweet. All right, let's go to the art controversy. So I did this show notes like a week and a half ago because we were going to do this podcast last week. So I've really not – there's been an update to this controversy since then, but let's kind of start where the controversy began. Kevin, you've been following along on this? Yeah, I was up until a point, and then I couldn't take it anymore. But when it initially dropped, I was like, oh, this is interesting, and I wonder what's going on here. Oh, yeah, we can follow up because one of the artists actually did comment.
    11:43
    So there's somebody on Tilt Forums, Bumpergeist, who went through and, like, picked out a bunch of the art and compared it to the original assets and found, you know, pointed out different things where it appeared that AI could have been used to interpret this art in some way. to me on the initial look it definitely has that kind of vibe now that this has been pointing out I can kind of feel it all the art kids kind of got like this wavy like uncanny valley kind of look to it that isn't I don't know once you see it it feels AI but it's also like when I look at something a four fingered hand right so like there's like yeah like one of the hand has only four fingers on it yeah that's what I'm here Yeah, so that's weird.
    12:38
    Yeah. But the other thing is, well, the big thing was that dragon. Yeah, let's see the dragon. That's the one that really, like, Nightmare on Disney. There's a better one. I think there's a better one if you scroll there that will really get up on the screen and let people see. Oh, yeah, here it is. There it is. Look at that. The dragon has, like, an extra. So I'm guessing that's not right. Yeah, so it's like. It's supposed to be like a gill or something, like a breathing hole or something on the side of his head. And when they fed it through the LLM, it turned into a second eye on the side of his head.
    13:17
    This one's pretty bad because it's low down on the plate. I think it's right by the upper right flipper. So it's right there.
    13:25
    So, yeah, it's sad because some of these, like, he kept going and pointing out more and more things that were more of a stretch. But, yeah, some of the initial analysis was really kind of damning on this.
    13:40
    Yeah, this is pretty bad, to be honest. Now, you know, AI is a tool, right, that can help you. But, like, that is, like, seems sloppy, right? That's, like, not even reviewing what you used it for. And if people are able to figure this out and point it out. And, you know, Pinball Machine is, what I said earlier in the promos, Like, it's a piece of art to me. And Juicy Jack had hyped it up, and they had even talked about in the promos about being hand-drawn art. Well, clearly, when you have this AI that's being used, that's not totally the case, right? Like, this is not purely hand-drawn art. And, in fact, there's some abominations in the game.
    14:20
    Maybe I'm getting ahead, Kevin, but so what had happened when this first came out is, like, somebody reached out to Jack, and he's like, no, no, there was no AI used. It was all hand-drawn. So the Jersey Jack team just denied it. You've got people calling Jack a liar and the team a liar. And I'm reading this, I'm like, I'm guessing, like, they really believe it's not AI. Like, I bet the artist duped them, right? The artist probably used AI and didn't tell the team that he used AI. And then fast forward earlier this week, it is the case where the artist came out and he did not tell the JJP team that he used AI. So this guy kind of cheated. He kind of half-assed it or used it. And even if he's using AI to not catch that issue on the dragon, it's just, like, really sloppy. So it's, you know, is this going to – are some people really bothered by it? Should you be bothered by it? That's up to the consumer. But it is an unfortunate thing for, like, this highly anticipated game, especially if the art piece is really important to you. Yeah, and this initially – I first heard about this in the Buffalo Discord, And I was like, well, that's weird because, you know, I use AI at work and I've used it to generate images. So I know, like, it definitely has some tells and things like that. And I see it as a useful tool.
    15:41
    And, you know, for me personally, it's not something that would dissuade me from buying the machine. To me, it comes down to, is the game fun? You know, are the rules there? Is this something that I'm going to want to have in my collection? So that's to be determined once I play the game. one element like this wouldn't be enough. I'm not, like, it definitely is, AI is definitely like a copy and paste machine, like, and it steals from artists and all that stuff, and we're in this crazy time right now where everybody's trying to figure out copyright issues and all that, and it's just, you know, the AI companies are just sucking up everything out there to train their LLMs, so it's definitely a gray area right now, but I don't know. Everybody's definitely got opinions on this, And one of the things that was pointed out in the Discord was that, like, when video games have been found to use AI like this, there's been full-on revolts. And I was like, weird. I haven't been, like, involved in that. And I was like, well, I wonder if that would happen for pinball, too. And it has definitely happened, at least for a vocal group on Pinside and in the forums and things like that. why don't I go ahead and I'll read this statement from the artist. I think it's interesting enough to read, which also, like, I'm a writer, and I've used AI to assist with writing and, you know, creative brainstorming and things like that. And some of the language patterns it uses are so obvious, like, once you start using it. And I'm, like, 99% sure the guy used AI to help write the statement about. You actually just hired me to do the art. If you can use AI, I didn't know that was an option. I could have come up with something. It's like, come on. All right. So this is from Jesper Abels, the lead artist on Harry Potter. Well, for the – I think he did the play field and also the cabinet art for the arcade and wizard edition. He says, as one of the artists behind the new Harry Potter pinball machine for Jersey Jack, I'd like to take a moment to openly address recent conversations surrounding the artwork, particularly around the use of AI, to share some insights into the process, the intentions, and the creative decisions that were made along the way. AI tools were never used to generate full illustrations or replace the handcrafted work, but rather as part of a much larger creative process that also included hand drawing, painting, digital composition, and licensed assets. I made the creative decision to pursue complexity over simplicity in the visual design. That was my call, and I stand by it. The reason is simple. We wanted to deliver something that hadn't been done before, Something that brought unique dynamic poses and compositions to life, scenes that represent not only moments from the films, but the emotional and narrative core of the entire Harry Potter story. So that's not only, but also a construct that AI uses that all the time. So that was one of the tells for me.
    18:34
    Our goal wasn't to replace what's already out there. We wanted to give fans something completely new, simply something immersive and visually rich, where the art serves the gameplay and storytelling at every level. We believe that taking this risk would result in a more rewarding experience for the player. To be transparent, we did use AI tools sparingly and intentionally as a way to support the visual blending of certain elements and create harmony between complex assets. Every instance of AI was guided by my own artistic vision and layered onto handcrafted designs. It was never about replacing the human element as it was about enhancing it. Let's see, do I want to keep reading this? That said, not everyone involved in the project had direct knowledge or understanding of these technologies. The leadership team at Jersey Jack Pinball was not involved in the technical art pipeline, and understandably, they were not in a position to explain or defend these tools, as they were unfamiliar with the specifics of how they were applied. The creative team took on that responsibility, always with the intent of delivering the best possible product.
    19:38
    What the audience sees is the final product. what you don't see is the countless revisions, changes, feedback, technical restrictions, and approval that went into making it all come together. It's honestly a wonder that we were able to create something this complex and detailed. I'm incredibly proud of what we achieved as a team. The people at Jersey Jack Pinball gave everything to this project. It wasn't just a job, it was a passion. Yeah, it's not just X, it's Y. That's another speech pattern, language pattern that AI likes to use. Fueled by a deep respect for both the Harry Potter universe and the game of Fimball itself. We did everything we could to bring something magical and memorable into the world. At the end of the day, this machine was made for you, the players, the collectors, plans, blah, blah, blah, blah. There you go, Jesper. So that's the statement from the artist. He kind of fell on the sword and admitted to using it and that it was him and the creative team alone that were aware of this, I guess. So, I don't know. Take from that what you will. for me it's still I still want to play the game and see how it plays and the big thing with the other thing holding me back from buying it right now is that the code is only at .7 something and DJP which we'll get into later doesn't have the best track record for completing their games in a timely fashion they did finally finish Pirates but it was 7 years after the fact Godfather is still waiting for a final code update I think they did finish Avatar I think that's complete and you can get all the way to the end. Yeah, for all 50 owners, congratulations. You got a game that's maybe done? I don't know. But it's not. And, you know, stuff like Wonka, Joe Cass went over time on that in his own time and finished that off. Early games like Hobbit and Wizard of Oz had great code, and some of the best pinball moments was like killing the dragon, killing Smaug in Hobbit, things like that. So I'm holding out. I'm being an adult. I'm using some restraint, waiting to see, get my hands on it and see where we're at code-wise. I did see there was somebody, Vuvuf, on Instagram. I follow him. He's a really high-level player, and he's been playing it out at the East Kogi in California. And he's crashed it a couple times, so that's not super encouraging. So I would want to see those issues. resolved before we get into it. Not that I'm nearly as good of a player as he is, but if those issues are in there, I don't want to potentially run into a game that has those issues. I know what you mean, Kev.
    22:15
    I'm proud of you. Alright. With pinball all around, like all the manufacturers, I kind of just feel like, play the game. Well, most of them. Unless you're getting something like a super boutique game. Wait, play it. They're going to be around. Try it out. Get your hands on it and see if you like it. Because with the way the prices have been dropping on the second-hand market, it's like if you end up not liking a game, you're going to end up losing $3,000, a couple thousand dollars right off the bat if you don't end up liking the game, right? True story. Yep. There you go. Any other thoughts on Harry Potter or should we move on? Let's move that. Get the train rolling. All right. The second pinball machine revealed this month is another long-awaited one. and has quite an interesting history when it comes to pinball. Predator, so originally, you know, if you remember years and years ago, it's got to be like 10 years ago now, when Skid B, I remember talking about this on some of our first podcasts,
    23:17
    Kevin Kulik was going to build a bunch of Predator pinball machines in his basement but didn't actually have the license. Well, bring it back around. Here we are again. Pinball Brothers giving it a shot this is the game this is the license everybody wanted them to do because they're the ones who did Alien and they're like well we gotta have a Predator machine to go with our Alien right so they finally you know they're like well we're gonna try Queen we're gonna try ABBA and they're like oh maybe we should do the game that everybody wants us to do so they decided to go ahead and reveal Predator after like two weeks of teasers that were driving everybody nuts they were like let's just get on with this and show us the game and here it is, it's Predator it's starting at $11,000 US dollars and then there's a trophy package you can add to that for another $1,500 so that puts us at $3,000? Yeah no, $12,000 $12,000, okay I can math, yeah so if you want 12,000 MSRP for the top level package um no that's 12.5 no i can't math okay 12.5 um and then there's also the the thing with the pricing on this is they're also doing you have to pay shipping to the u.s on it because these are being made in italy i think and then shipping from the distributor to your house and then they're also imposing tariffs on top of that which are unknown at this time so So you're looking at probably around $15,000 to get this to your door if you want the top-level package in the U.S.
    25:04
    It's pretty crazy. And what they've shown of it, like, when I originally saw this play field, I was like, oh, that's pretty cool. Like, look, it's got this cool, like, wire farm that kicks around under the flippers over to the Gatling gun on the left-hand side. It's a wide-body game. It's got kind of a jungle feel to it overall. There's no characters from the movie on the play field itself.
    25:28
    Lots of skulls. If you like skulls, this has got you covered. There's an image of the Predator. You can see the Predator's arm in the apron, which I kind of like, and it's got a little screen there that displays the characters that you kind of see on his arm when he's in the movie.
    25:43
    There's a helicopter. There's the Predator figure in the middle that you battle during the game. It's got some cool sculpts. I like this on the left. The hut-looking sculpt is really well done.
    25:58
    So, overall, I think it was an impressive first look at this art package. But once they started showing some gameplay, it got real weird real fast. I don't know if you saw some of that early footage. I didn't get to see any of it. Yeah. So, I think it was Nitro Pinball on Facebook posted some gameplay footage. And it showed Arnold saying, get to the chopper. It was his face, and he was saying the lines. It was his quotes from the movie.
    26:24
    And everybody was like, cool, Arnold's in it. But then the CEO from the company was on podcast saying, we can't show Arnold.
    26:37
    I'll give a shout out. It was on the Tell All News podcast and also on Loser Kid. I listened to both of those. And he was saying, we can't show close-ups of Arnold, and we have all of the rest of the movie, all the call-outs and everything, except for Arnold. So they have somebody in the game that kind of not really at all sounds like Arnold, and it's pretty comical and it's pretty bad. So they do the Get to the Chopper clip, so they ended up showing gameplay footage of their own on YouTube, and they have this weird, like, really bad voice actor, and, like, Arnold's face is blurred out and cropped. Oh, shit, I want to see this really badly now. Yeah, it's bad. You thought, give your impressions of your first look at this, and I'll find that.
    27:24
    Yeah, I don't know. I agree with everything you said, Kev. I mean, like, it looks fine. I didn't think it looked bad. I was like, oh, this looks fine. And, again, like, I'm not remotely interested in buying a game from Pinball Brothers and getting their jank and the amount of cost. I've never actually seen the movie Predator, so the theme does nothing for me. I like that it's more of an adult theme. So that's good.
    27:45
    I think one funny thing is that a couple weeks ago they were showing off how they've improved their flippers. There was like this short video clip on Facebook. And I wrote a snarky comment. I'm just like, it's not a good sign when you're touting that your flippers work correctly. Right? Like that's a low bar. Like before you even think let's build a pinball machine, how about you get flippers working right that feel good? And then you can try to branch out and do other stuff. So it was a weird flex or brag, in my opinion. It just did not seem like it's a great start. All right, I found the gameplay. I'm trying to find the part where it tells you to get to the chopper. I don't think I'm going to be able to hear. I might have to switch over my audio. Yeah.
    28:27
    Let's see. I'm just kind of scanning through the video here. This is good content, you guys. I forget where in this video it takes place. I should have had it queued up but it was pretty bad it'll be worth it though it'll be worth it I'm guessing it's a two minute video well yeah exactly maybe we could just run maybe it's not in this one because it was in they did two versions of this video and the other one was longer here I'll turn the sound off for the front show So they've got like the main theme You can see some of the gameplay footage and things here There's the predator Maybe it's not I bet they intentionally didn't put it in this video because they have one with commentary and then one without Hi everybody Anyways I'll put this in chat. Somebody find the time stamp and send it back. You can help out at home, and then we'll play it, and then Nick can enjoy.
    29:45
    Okay. All right. So, yeah, even, like, so our buddy James, we talk about him on the show all the time. He's, like, a huge movie buff, was totally stoked for this Predator game, and then it came out, and he's not getting it. Amazing. Oh, wow. James isn't getting it. Wow. There you go. And he's got an alien, too, and he's like, I'm going to put it next to my alien. It's going to be great. Like this guy got a huge massive wall full of movies Like I never met somebody who is more into movies than this guy But between the pricing and the lack of assets yeah
    30:19
    Well, the other thing is like, Alien is fun. I own an Alien. Pinball Brothers did not make Alien. Highway Pinball made Alien. So they've proven at no point that they're capable of making a good pinball machine. Yeah, they made Queen and Nava. Right. So I have zero confidence. If they had made amazing games all along, and it's like, okay, it's a cool theme, I like Alien, it'd be fun to go with it, I'll take a shot. But, the fact that, you know, there's so much in the air. And then they showed this gameplay footage, and it looks, the geometry looks kind of janky, and it's like, it just didn't do it. So,
    31:01
    I don't know. I think sales are going to be slow on this one. Especially some of the videos. Here's a real hot take, Kev. Yeah. Italians don't know how to make a pinball machine. Oh.
    31:11
    Give me some other evidence. Give me evidence of a game that they made well. What's a great Italian pinball machine? Mexico 86. I said great, Kevin. You guys like the music.
    31:24
    Amazing. Yeah, I don't know. They've kind of butchered some of the Bally Williams classics too, like Funhaus. What are the other ones that Pedretti has done? It hasn't been great. That's been great Alright, Gorn says Zachariah had cool stuff Okay, you can't even name a game Sloppy says Farfalla I mean, like, no one's losing their shit over Farfalla Are they? Yeah, I mean, they're fun enough Like, their hit ratio, even if I give you that Is like 10%? I don't even know, that might be generous Chrissy's got my back on Mexico 86 Let's go What's weird, Kev, is like Why isn't Arnold in the game? He's been in no less than two pinball machines. He's in T2. He's in T3. He's in Last Action Hero. So clearly the guy is not a problem in being in a pinball machine. What's the problem? Money is probably the problem. Yep. I am sure it's the money.
    32:25
    Yep. Who cares about Arnold? We'll just blur him out and sound a little like him. Nobody's going to care. Yeah. it's definitely a matter of they can't afford him but you know people are then speculating you know how they ended up adding Ripley into Alien they're like well maybe they'll do an Arnold edition of Co-op it's like no I wouldn't bank on that you'd be lucky if this company's around three years from now right this is going to sink them yeah I think this feels like it was a make or break point for Pinball Brothers even in one of the podcasts they were talking about You know, were they happy with the sales of the other games? And he sounded pretty hesitant about, you know, the success of the sales of ABBA and Queen. Well, yeah, you made ABBA, and then Queen should have been a hit. But the game fucking sucks. I know. Like, you can't just slap it. It just goes to show, like, yeah, theme is super important, but you have to have something of a game in there to back it up, right? Like, ugh.
    33:31
    Yeah. somebody buy predator so we can come play it i'm not buying this one i'm out um okay there weren't just two pinball machines announced this month there's also whatever the hell this thing is i'm glad you had this in the rundown because oh yeah oh yeah look at it look at it what the hell is this so speaking of ai let's talk more about ai because everything i've seen from this game, Screams AI.
    34:01
    This is Defiant Pinball. They made t-shirts and stuff. And there's more AI on this page. It's a natural extension to make t-shirts to full-fledged pinball machines. That's usually the path. Let's manufacture a pinball machine.
    34:15
    322 is where... Oh, let's get to the chopper. Okay. Thank you. We were almost there. Alright, ready?
    34:21
    You're a hero, luxury wagon. Alright, here we go. I'll back it up a little bit. I think the commentator is talking a little bit over the top of this, but you're going to hear it in the background. Here we go. The better things we get. Now we start chopping multiple in the jungle. Oh, God!
    34:47
    God, get to the top now! And there will be a number of jackpots lit, It is mainly in the upper part. Oh, so bad. It's so bad. It's like the one line everybody wants to hear from Predator, right?
    35:06
    I want that audio isolated and the original to really, like, maybe next pocket, maybe we can work on this. The original audio from the movie and what they have in the game, we can analyze it. I'll put it on my soundboard and we can just play it whenever we want. Some people were speculating that they just took Arnold and slowed him down so they wouldn't get, like, the AI copyright strike or whatever, but I don't know. Yeah.
    35:32
    All right. Thank you for doing that. Back to whatever this is. Nick, tell us about how you got introduced to Wild River Rumble. I can't remember. I was just scrolling on Facebook, and I was like, what in the God's name is this? because I saw the Translight. I was like, okay, that looks like, is this an alt-translight for Whitewater? No. Is this Whitewater 2? No. It's called Wild River Rumble. It does look like AI just was like, hey, can you make an alt-translight or alt-universe game for Whitewater? And then I'm reading this, and they're hyping this game up. And then the best is we can read this, but I want to just – sometimes I spoil the joke. But, okay, why don't you start from the top? Because the joke is at the bottom. Okay. You got to do it. This post was 100% AI written, too. This is, just remember, this is a pinball shirt company. They do maybe AI pinball shirt art, probably. I think they're in Australia. And now they're going to make a pinball machine, allegedly. I didn't realize they were Australian. A new Australian pinball manufacturer is stepping up in the absence of Ballarama. Pour one out for Ballarama. Noice. And Fathom. A good start. What more could a man want? Bump a bit, bump a bit, noise.
    36:56
    We watched that at the club two weeks ago. After we got done with our Thursday frenzy, we put it up on the big screen. We put it up on the five speakers on the club and just watched the video of the guy from Ballerama taking out Pimol parts that he was going to make for a prototype machine. And, yeah, it went over quite well. Okay. So here's the post. an homage with heart from the rapids of memory to Rumble of now. Remember, I said from X to Y, that's also AI. It loves to do that.
    37:26
    To all the folks who supported us, shared our work, or even taken a moment to smile at Wild River Rumble, thank you. Has anybody seen this machine before?
    37:36
    Who's supporting them? Sorry. I've definitely smiled at it, but it was not in the way that they want. This design is a personal tribute to one of the most iconic pinball machines of all time, Whitewater. We grew up with it. We admired it. And like many fans, we wish we could make something that gave us that same feeling, but with our own twist. Wild River Rumble is not a clone. It's an homage built with love, respect, and an avalanche of creativity. It's not X, it's Y. Right? It loves that. By the way, it's made by such respect that AI wrote this. Exactly. And also, I like how they used we. Who's the we? How many people? Who is behind this company? They have one review. It's not even rated yet. This just looks like it's such a show. Okay, go ahead. Continuing on. New characters, fresh scenarios, and a style that's unmistakably Defiant. Okay. Because they're Defiant Pinball.
    38:31
    We'll never get the license to make Whitewater 2, and we don't want to. We want to make something inspired by it for a new generation to enjoy, remix, and laugh at. including two Bigfoots and just one of them barbecues. Mission accomplished. We're really laughing at it. Also, yeah, we want to make something inspired. You want to rip it off. Got it. You can't get the license, so you're going to rip it off. Okay. Exactly. Noted. Let me interpret it. There we go. For the doubters, he may be talking to us here. Absolutely. AI. AI knows about Nick and Kevin from Buffalo Pinball. That's okay. Not everyone has to get it. For the believers, we're just getting started. Boy, are they.
    39:11
    Defiant Pinball. Quote, from burnt coils to blazing trails. That doesn't inspire confidence. No, it doesn't. Wildly burning coils. Our first original pinball concept. Defiant Pinball presents Wild River Rumble, a white-knuckle river journey, a secret underground wrestling match, a TV survival show gone off the rails. Wild River Rumble is our first original pinball concept. High-energy chaos on the water with characters as bold as the shots you'll need to survive it. Can I stop you right there? Okay. Let me go back. Let me just read this sentence. Wild River Rumble, trademarked, is our first original pinball concept. Get the fuck out of here! You're ripping off the... It's a clone! It's not original, you dummy!
    39:56
    You're like, come on! We just talked about how it's like Whitewater, and then you're like, oh, it's the original pinball concept. It's not an original pinball concept, okay? Anyway, you can't give the license to Whitewater 2, so you're ripping this other Teemu thing off. Here we go. Okay. Here we go. Okay, meet Snoke and Sam, legendary River Guide and part-time reality TV host. Alongside his realist instructor, Sharon Stoner and Cindy Crawfish. Oh, my God. Oh, so reference from the 90s? Like, oh, that's really – this is for the new generation, kids. You remember Sharon Stone and Cindy Crawford? Oh, but it's Cindy Crawfish. You get it? I get it. Because they're in the water. You guys like that kind of humor? Yeah. Oh.
    40:37
    It's for the new gen. All the kids out there. Kids love it. Sam must navigate a cast of clueless contestants upriver to a hidden area where Bigfoot and Yeti are set to clash in the ultimate forest grudge match. Our dream to bring this fully to life with the help from the pinball community and pros who know what it takes to make a great machine tick. Until then, here's your first look at what we're building. We're not building anything. They want people to build this for them.
    41:03
    Here you go. Here's our concept. We're going to rip off whitewater. Can you just build it for us real quick? Yep. So let me just read the end. Wild River Rumble TM is a trademark of Defiant Pinball. There's no way they actually filed a trademark for this. No way. A division of Defiant Corp. All artwork copyright Defiant 2025. All rights reserved. Can you copyright AI-generated art? I don't think so.
    41:28
    Let's just take a quick scroll through this Facebook page while we're at it. What are you guys doing in Australia down there between Ballarama, this, and then Haggis? Like, you guys are not exactly batting 1,000 right now. Look at that. This is all AI. And they got blew up in the comment. Oh, I bet. Our AI slot. Yeah, like, what is this?
    41:52
    It's like a power outlet stuck to the side of a tree with no holes in it. Not copying the classics, but using generative AI. That does it for us.
    42:04
    Great. Look at these AI-generated models wearing their shirts. What is it? I want to see what the thing said, the original. White water rafting gets me wet every time. I kind of want that.
    42:21
    I'll see you wearing that at the next tournament. I'm going to church. Oh, my God.
    42:29
    Oh, it's horrible. I like how they're showing, quote-unquote, sketches to show their artistic process, but they're also just probably using AI to generate these, too.
    42:44
    The guy from Punny Factory is probably like, man, they're doing it over there. He's probably jealous. Here's some more AI slop for you. That's terrifying, by the way. What the fuck is that? It's supposed to be marionettes wearing it? Why would you do that? It's really bad. It's so weird. Yeah, super weird. Anyways. I think there's not even a person behind it. I think they let AI create a website and just, like, set it wild. It's like an AI agent just doing this. Yeah, I got one of those coming up in Mods You Don't Need To that I think is all AI, too. So it's becoming a problem, everybody. Your media literacy has to be on point in 2025 when it comes to AI garbage.
    43:24
    All right. So, you know, people love when we dunk on these garbage companies. So I'm glad we have another one. Well, Slappy White asked who this is for. I think it's for podcast content creators. I think it's for Slappy. I think somebody, the universe is giving us a gift.
    43:40
    Thank you. Okay. That's it for that. McLean, you got John Wick Code Update. John Wick Code Update came out. Stern issued a whole bunch of code updates this week. And as soon as the John Wick Code Update hit, people were like, what does McLean think about it? So how much time have you put in on it? What are your thoughts? How much time have I put in on it? I've played less than 10 games on it, so not a lot. This is a hot, hot, hot take. Let's just back up for a second. So last month when we did our podcast, we reviewed John Wick, and I think I was pretty happy with that review, right? I've owned the game, spent a lot of time with the game. I've said previously that it was my favorite game that came out from Stern last year, despite the fact that it was incomplete. I really liked kind of what was there. I liked that it was a brutal game. It was not a baby game. You felt like you were really battling the machine, which you don't get that from a lot of pinball machines. Iron Man is a game that I love because it feels like the game fights back and you're battling it, right? And I think there's no better theme than John Wick where you want to feel like you're in a fight as a player.
    44:45
    So the game has been in limbo for a long time. I mean, I can't remember the last time it got, like, really any kind of update that had any kind of changes in it, maybe December or prior to that. So, you know, with Tim Sexton leaving and no updates, it's just we didn't know what was going to happen to it. There was speculation that maybe Ray Day's on it, blah, blah, blah. No idea when the next update came, and then it dropped. So this is like you're starving in the desert and somebody offers you water. So, of course, you get excited about it. But to me, instead of being handed water, there was like a little – the water was laced with like a little piss in it. So, my hot take, I might be in the minority here, and I understand. Like, I understand. But, like, things that I liked about the game were changed. So, here's the thing.
    45:34
    The rule, the foundational fundamental rule on what made this game unique was the fact that they had enemies that would populate on shots. And you cannot complete or get credit for that shot. if there was an enemy there, right? So let's say a shot is lit for a mode. There's an arrow that's flashing. You're like, oh, I'm going to hit that shot. However, if there's a blue dot there and it's flashing, you need to hit that shot first, clear the enemies. There could be one, two, or three. It doesn't matter how many are there. You hit that. You clear the enemies. The shot's still flashing, though, okay? You didn't get credit for the shot. You got points for killing the enemies, and then the screen does an animation depending on how many enemies are there, which, you know, they bragged about doing. And then you've got to hit the shot again, provided no enemies populate on that shot, and then you get credit for the shot. Now, here's what I liked about that. There's no other game that I know of that has done that. That seems very thematic of John Wick. You're battling these enemies. Okay, like, I've got to clear that first. I really like that. It's kind of maybe hard for people to understand that, just step up to the game and never seen that in a game before, that, hey, why am I not getting credit for it? I feel like I'm not making progress. You've got to learn the enemy system. It's not hard. It doesn't take long. You just got to pause and just understand that's not like everything else out there, and that's not a bad thing. And what's interesting is that in the forums, and the time I spent in the forums, there really wasn't a complaint about that, right? People in the forums wanted maybe the way the behavior of the enemies to change, for example. The other function of enemies is that to get to kind of the boss battles in the game, you've got to kill a number of enemies and you can fight them. The problem is that the number of enemies were, like, radically different. Like, there was, like, one scene in, like, the catacombs. There was, like, 34 enemies you had to clear, and then, like, John Wick's house was, like, maybe, like, 19 or something. So it wasn't consistent, and the enemies weren't maybe populating enough so that you can kill enough of them to really get deeper into the game. I mean, you would have a good game if you got to fight two boss battles, and you'd really have to almost play in a specific way. So that definitely needed to be adjusted. But, again, I'm going to go back to this. Most people really liked what was there. They liked that this was a brutal game. They liked that it was something different. It had some soul to it. So in comes MVK, Mike Valinor, is it? Vinicore. And they put out a video a couple days ago talking about the changes. Now, they've done good things to the game, which I'll get to. But right out of the gate, they're like, we took away enemies, blackened shots. It's like, what? Like, dude, like, come on. So what do they do with those little inserts that are in the play field specifically for that now? It's just bullshit. It's just a shot multiplier. Okay. I like shot multipliers, but, like, you made this game just like anything else. It's a copypasta. I'm going to make it like every other game out there. The only thing that makes, like, you didn't have to do that. You didn't have to do it. You could have made it so if you want to progress further into the game, again, like they did reduce the number of enemies you got to kill to go to a boss, but they also changed the way the enemies populate. So it really hasn't changed that in my opinion. So it's just as hard to go through the boss battles.
    48:54
    What it has changed is it's easier to now get through the modes because the enemies aren't blocking shots. But here's an idea.
    49:01
    Just make the modes less shots if that was a problem before of getting through the modes, right? Keep the enemies there blocking it. It really made you feel like you're John Wick and you've got to keep your head on the swivel and be like, oh, shoot, there's an enemy blocking that shot. I've got to hit it. Also, the enemies in the old code had armor, so if they were not flashing but were solid, you had to hit them a couple times to clear them. They kind of get stronger over a period of time in the game. And then you also, in the old code, you can make the enemies easier to defeat by hitting certain shots that would bring in allies to the game. So each ramp was an ally and it made it easier to clear the waves of enemies. So it was good. There was nothing. It needed to be tweaked a little bit, definitely. But you didn't need to get rid of that system. I was surprised when I read some of the comments on YouTube that people were like, oh, yay, the enemies are gone. However, in the owner's thread, I think it's 50-50 or even, like, greater than 50% of people are like me and have that sentiment about it. So, yeah, that's – man, I'm pretty bummed about it. It's turning out to be a soulless game. Is it a baby game?
    50:07
    Yeah, dude, it has a different feel to the game, too. So they made it even easier to get into multiball. So now it's just a multiball fest.
    50:16
    You're in multiball very easy. Like, you can get into multiball, like, two shots in this game now. Wow. And then the multiballs, they definitely seem to have extended the timer on it. It used to be that you would get a multiball, and the timer didn't stay very long in the multi-ball, and it was harder to get into multi-balls. I would say it was, like, normal to get into a multi-ball, or maybe even a little bit easy at the start of the game. But it was fine. There was nothing that needed to be adjusted there. So, again, just the feeling that I get playing it now, I kind of lean back as a player, and I don't feel like I'm fighting the game or the game's fighting back at me. I just feel like I can relax a little because I'm in multi-ball. And when you're in multiple, let's be honest, you're safe. It's a safe period of time. When the ball stays flashing, it's a safe period of time. So that's what they've done. So it's just really this, like, okay, starter mode, get in multiple, get in multiple, right, starter mode. It's just that rinse, wash, repeat, take away some of the brutality of the game and make it a baby game. So it's definitely going down the baby game track. They did add in getting perks from beating modes, which is nice. That should be in there. It should be a reward. So that's good.
    51:28
    He constantly created, what is it, I don't know, multiball. They made it better with hitting jackpot shots. So they added more stuff in there, but, again, I don't like the direction it's going. So it's MVK on the code and Lonnie Robb. Oh, boo. Boo. Dude, I'm really bummed. You know, Tim had something here. I'm really bummed that the game wasn't finished by him and the artist of the designer could have finished his original vision, and now we're just getting this kind of copy-pastas. I'm sorry I'm being so hard. Look, I might change my mind months from now. The game's not done. So bear with me here.
    52:04
    But this is just panning out like anything else. It's like the Wings of Gold. It's taking away some of what made it unique. You know what I mean?
    52:13
    They also totally took away the dance club area. That's a pretty large real estate in the game. The dance club area used to be able to shoot it back there and based on switch hits so it would populate more enemies on the game, which you want to do that because it gives you progress towards the boss battles. Now they change it to hitting stand-up targets to populate enemies, which, again, I don't like that move. But there's no reason to go in the dance club area except for me to start multi-ball, and that's just something that's lit by hitting the stand-up. So, again, they just totally got rid of that area. It's this large part of the area where it's kind of cool, the dance club area. There's just no use for it now, pretty much. except for me that multiple where you can build switch hits, but it's just, I don't know. I'm not optimistic in terms of what this team's going to do. I think they're just going to, like, let's do whatever other game we do and just get done with this game and move on so people will shut up about the game not being done. Right. Total bummer that Tim's not there. I'm a little crushed now. And the other thing is, like, it's so weird to change the enemy behavior on that because that's such a fundamental part of the game. The game's been out for a year. People have bought the game and decided to keep the game or buy the game. Like, I bought the game a couple months ago based on the fundamental rules that were in the game, and now you've just totally changed that. Like, come on. It's like a different game at this point.
    53:37
    Yeah. People are going to say I'm overreacting and stuff. And, again, like I've already said at the top of this, maybe I'm the minority, but to me they were fixing things, at least based on the owner's thread, that the owners weren't asking to be fixed, which is kind of bizarre.
    53:54
    All right. Well, I'm looking forward to trying it at the club. We got one at the club, so we'll get some time on John Wick and play the baby game for myself.
    54:05
    All right. You're up next. Talk to us about what's going on at the club. All right. So we've got two club events that I want to highlight to the listeners because it's a great chance to come to the club or come in town to the club. Number one, we've got the announcement of a tournament called Whopper Jr., WPPRJR. And that is going to be a – it's a – okay, so it's a match play, three hours, 45 minutes, no finals. It starts at 6 o'clock, gets done at 945. This is the week of the Beast, the tournament that I'm banned from. So the Beast start – I'm not banned from the tournament. Jeff Teels is a great guy. I love Jeff. The pocket two people are terrible people that banned me in Buffalo Pinball. But the Beast starts on Thursday. So if you're going to go to the Beast, if you come a day early, like that night, right, like head over to Nickel City Pinball Club. We've got spots for 40 people. Registration is up. You can go over to our Facebook page, search for Nickel City Pinball. Is it Nickel City Pinball Club? I should know the name of my club. I'm pulling it up. There you go.
    55:24
    Nickel City Pinball Club. You'll see public page. Go there. It's under events. There's a sign-up registration link. Come out. Say hi to Nick. Say hi to Martha. Say hi to Kevin. Say hi to – we can try to get Jay out there. It's going to be good. So get some points before you get some points, hence Wofford Jr. And then we've got also – just so happens I didn't plan this. This is kind of how it lined up on the calendar. There's a max match play tournament the following night on Thursday. So the Beast is also going on that night, but if you wanted a break from the Beast and wanted to come over and check out the club, that's another way to check out the club. I've had a number of people say they want to see the club, so here's your chance, everybody.
    56:04
    There's a tournament on Wednesday, a tournament on Thursday, and then on Saturday we're going to do an open house from noon to 10 o'clock. It's only $20 to come to the open house. It's a hell of a deal. All the games are on free play. You can come by. I'm going to be there all day. You can say hi to Nick. Again, we'll see if Jay will set up a booth, and he'll sign up autographs, but no promises. So, plenty of opportunity to catch up with your friends from Buffalo Pinball and check out the club.
    56:31
    All right. We also have another reason maybe to come in town for it is a EM repair clinic on July 12th, which is a Saturday. so Mike Hale from Past Times Arcade he is known for being highly skilled in terms of fixing EMs he's going to do this is a long class from holy shit 8am to 5pm it's a full work day baby that's more than a full work alright so 8am to 5pm you can come into the club and I think there's only room for 10 to 15 people so it's going to be an intimate thing you'll get to learn how to repair an EM. So we need people who know how to do that. Check it out. Sign-ups are now live. Again, you can go to either Buffalo Pinball, actually, Facebook page. The link to the event is there, and also Nickel City. Check it out. Sign up. That's Saturday, July 12th at the Nickel City Pinball Club.
    57:31
    I won't be there. I'm going to be out of town, unfortunately, in Sobel Cabin. Yep, yep. Bummer. We'll catch you on the next one.
    57:38
    Yep. Okay. I'm speed running this because after this I've got to go to the bathroom. I've had three glasses of water and coffee.
    57:46
    Here we go. I was out in Vegas for work last month, and it's funny when I'm out there, everyone's like, oh, Nick, there's a pinball museum. Are you going to go to the pinball thing? I was like, I probably should. So I avoided it last year when I was out there, but I bit the bullet, and I went to the Vegas Pinball Hall of Fame, and I had already been conditioned that this place is very disappointing and it definitely lived up to my expectations. So how do I describe it? They've got a lot of games there, a lot of games, right? So plus one for that. However, I would say 50% of the games are just like turned off. Maybe 40% of the games are turned off.
    58:33
    The games that are working, there's always like something wrong with it. Always something wrong with it. They're clean. They're definitely clean in the game, so they're not dirty.
    58:43
    Some other bizarre thing that I saw there is, like, they would have a game that was just on the floor. I don't know if they don't have, like, a back area or a workshop, but the game would be on the floor. The play field would be up. There's, like, a theater of magic. It was just, like, up and tools were around there. This is when they're open, right? Like, Kevin, if you're running a business, do you think it's a good idea to have a play field up in the air, like, tools around with the general public there? Do you think that's a good idea? I mean, leave your soldering iron. What could go wrong? Yeah. So there's that nonsense.
    59:13
    They had Pinball Circus, of course, which they brag about. And, of course, was that thing ever working there? It just can't play. So who gives a shit?
    59:22
    Yeah. I mean, they just had, like, junk in the corner. Like, just literally, like, junk. There would be, like, corners of the place where they just, like, threw stuff. It is a – the place is a joke. I mean, as long as you know you're walking into a joke, you can go there. But it's very disappointing. There's no entrance fee, so maybe that's a saving grace. It's not like at least you don't have to pay to get into the door, and then you're, like, swindled because you can walk around and say, okay, well, this kind of sucks. You can play a few games. They had a Kong there, and the Kong wasn't working right. I think the pop-up diverter, the log diverter wasn't working. So, you know, it's just like from brand new to games that are decades old, just not working. Were the bathrooms working, though? Because there's a lot of pictures in this thread about that's what I was saying. I didn't go to the bathrooms. I mean, the bathroom was clean in that photo. I didn't go to the bathroom, which is a remarkable thing for me to say. You weren't there long enough to have to go to the bathroom. That says a lot. Yeah, yeah. But yeah it lived up to its disappointing height I was not like more shocked it was just like okay I see what people are saying I not surprised Here we go Yeah It crazy too because they did all that fundraising a couple years ago to keep their place open And people donated crazy amounts of money. And, yeah. If you want to go in and get yelled at and play Broken Machines or not play them at all because they're off, you might be able to go to the bathroom. There you go. Pinball Hall of Fame in Vegas. Yeah. I was golfing with clients on the golf course right across the street from everybody. It's like, oh, there it is, Nick. There it is. So I was like, I couldn't avoid it. Well, they have this huge sign. The sign looks amazing. Yeah, the building's great. And it's got the huge pinball really big on the front. So you do a good job getting in the door, right? But then it all kind of falls apart from there. No, they were like, now here is Rush Pinball. It's like, okay, maybe update your sign? Exactly. From five years ago. Yeah. Yeah, dude, they're chucked out. They're definitely chucked. I didn't see anybody get yelled at. I saw the million signs about no running and stuff and kids misbehaving, which I got to say, I don't have a problem with that. Kids are terrible. They really are.
    61:34
    If I was there, I'd probably be yelling at kids, in all honesty. Nice. All right, quick, before we, this is right at the end of the news, quick plug for Pin Glass, because I know people were shouting for Widebody. They do have Widebody. it's up for pre-order now at a reduced rate it's uh normally $1.99 you can grab it for $1.79 uh on pre-order um so I've got a couple sheets on order and then all now all of my games will have pin glass um uh yeah I've got it on let's see it's on my p3 right now it's on Tron, Doctor Who,
    62:14
    and Godzilla and I've had it for a couple months now looks great plays great again this is one of those products where it's like a no-brainer 100 recommendation uh it's a superior product it's got the cool uh beveled edges uh no sharp corners and um it's cheaper than all the other non-reflective glass options so uh pin glass plus 100 recommended for me and uh looks great you're gonna like it if you're looking for an ar glass for your pinball machines all right uh oh nick's gone. We lost him. It's bathroom time for next. So I guess I'll do my game room updates. What do we got?
    62:53
    Oh, okay. Step one is, so if you're a fan of Scott Denise and all of his sweet jams that he does in his pinball machines, he released these kick-ass cassette tapes with his pinball machine soundtracks and other jams. So I recently got this boombox that I reworked from a family member and cleaned it up, got it working and I was like, might as well get some cassettes for it. So I got Final Resistance on cassette. I got, he did the soundtrack for Arcade Legend. That's what this one is. I got this one, it's called System of Parts. It's got a bunch of the Rick and Morty songs on it and this Breakcore set that lived up to his name and got eaten by my tape deck. I got another one of those coming, but this has got a really cool remix of Russian Tom Sawyer on it. I was like, oh, this is badass. And I was really jamming to it, and then it started playing backwards in my machine, and I got to hear all the satanic messages that were built into his music. So it's at scottdenesey.com. He's got a coupon code. It's called TapeMediaRocks20.
    64:15
    TapeMediaRocks20. it will save you 25% if you're looking to get some cassette tapes so I never thought I would buy brand new cassette tapes in 2025 but here we are there is something about playing music intentionally but I know that that's why people like vinyl a lot because you're like taking the music putting it on making a choice to listen to it not just like throwing stuff up in the background like I generally do with Spotify and things like that so it's pretty cool so I would recommend those support Scott he does cool stuff Mr. McMahon am I getting HP yeah we talked about that earlier I'm curious want to play it first want the code to get finished and just want to see if I get one I'm going to get the arcade edition so there you go there's the speed run of me and my thoughts on HP so oh yeah here's the website of Scott's stuff cool stuff over there scottdenesey.com he's got all sorts of good stuff shirts and pinball stuff.
    65:14
    Alright, so what else is in my... Oh, I got a Switch 2. So that was cool. I've been playing that a bunch. I got Switch 2 Mario Kart.
    65:25
    I've also been playing Zelda Echoes of Wisdom. So I kind of keep switching back between that and throwing through rounds of Mario Kart.
    65:34
    Quick thoughts on that. I was running my original Nintendo Switch from 2016 or whenever that came out. I never got like the OLED or the newer versions of it. So it was a huge upgrade for me from that to this. I mostly got it because we're going on a trip in a week, just over a week. I got like a 13-hour flight ahead of me to Hawaii. So I was like, well, I might as well grab this, and then I'll have it on the flight. So I'll be playing tons of games on that.
    66:02
    Yeah, highly recommend if you like Nintendo games. And it's got some cool third-party support. It's got several pumpkins on there now. I've already played through that on PS4 or PS5. So I'm not grabbing that. But there's a new Tron game that came out that is on all platforms that I've been playing on there too. So it's cool because you can play all your old Switch stuff and the new games as they come out too.
    66:26
    So that's fun. I sold my old Switch and I got this cool Tron joystick. Oh, yeah, there you go. I always kind of wanted one of these. They made these arcade replica joysticks for the Atari 2600. And when I traded my system in, I was like, oh, man. So I got some cash plus the trade towards that. So that was cool. Another cool Tron piece for the game room. And I got a new Neo Geo game. So I know you guys know I've been, you know, when these new releases come out. So there's, like, indie games that come out for the Neo Geo. This one's called Gladmore. It's, like, Ghouls and Ghosts, Ghosts and Goblins, those kind of games. Really cool. graphics and gameplay on that.
    67:09
    Those games are your style. It's also on modern platforms, too, if you just want to play it on your Switch or PlayStation or Xbox or whatever, you can do it on that. It's way cheaper than playing it on an EOGO, but I love that I have this machine from the 90s that I can get new games for in my game room. It's pretty sweet. So check out Gladmore. I recommend it.
    67:29
    Nick, what do you got coming for your game room? What's new in the game room? Nothing new in the game room Which is It's okay All your new stuff's in the club You're doing all your stuff in the club, right? Yeah, I did like a Flurry of activity in the club A few months ago So Just, you know Chilling out right now for a bit Although I did see a game that I wanted to buy yesterday But I don't think I should So The club is full right now Which helps If the club wasn't full It might be a different story but I'm glad it's full so it saves me there.
    68:06
    What do I got? I mean, for video games I've been playing this game called Disco Elysium, which is not a new game. I've been playing it on my Steam deck and highly recommend it. It's one of my favorite games of all time. I haven't gotten through it yet, but it's almost like a philosophical RPG, which is very kind of text heavy. Like it reads almost like a story. It's also a crime drama. It's really weird and hard to explain, but it's a very unique game, and I saw so many good reviews, I finally picked it up and did not disappoint. So, definitely recommend that game. What was the name of it again?
    68:46
    Disco Elysium. E-L-O-Y-S-I-U-M. Yeah. You say it like a philosophical game, and you've got me. I was like, that sounds like right up Nick Lane's alley. Yeah, it's like political philosophical. Nice. Alright, let's get to Let's get to a great new segment That I like I saw it was on here and I was like, alright, here we go New segment called Hall of Shame Which, it sucks that we have to have a segment called Hall of Shame But this is when we call bullshit out And things that should be shamed So the first one is a game And that game, going into The very first segment The very first thing to go into Brody even talked about Hall of Shame Is Godfather Pinball No, no, no, wait, wait You got that? Yeah, I do have that. Where is it on my list?
    69:33
    Oh, here it is. Yeah, okay, so Godfather Pinball. What the fuck, guys? What the fuck, Jersey Jack? Your quote-unquote premium product? Your premium product, $12,000 out of the gate, new? You don't? The game's not done? There's a bug you can't get to the final wizard mode? The timers are still running? What are you guys doing? Who gets to, like, the one-yard line and quits there? That's insane.
    70:00
    I just lost a lot of respect for this company. They used to be a sponsor back in the day. I am, you know, I mean, Stern's bad enough.
    70:09
    We're going to be throwing their stuff in the Hall of Shame very soon, probably next episode. Don't worry.
    70:15
    We'll come to there. But two years on Godfather. I feel like a schmuck for buying the game out of the gate. I feel so stupid. I trusted you guys. Maybe I shouldn't have trusted you guys because of what you do with Pirates, but up until that point, Pirates was really the only game that wasn't finished. Right, Kevin? Yeah, I think so, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I gave you guys a chance.
    70:37
    I love Keith as my favorite designer. I like Eric's games. I buy it. And you can't remove a fucking bug in the game? You can't stop the timers? We complained months ago. Take two seconds and finish your game. I regret buying that game, Kevin. And I love the game. I'm glad I have it. But I regret buying it because I could have just waited and gotten, like, collector's edition for the price I paid or the edition I have for several thousand dollars less. But now I've paid asking price for a game that's two years later not finished because this company doesn't care. You clearly don't care. You don't have a premium product if you can't finish your product. So Godfather goes in the hall of shame. Shame on you. Shame, shame, shame. Get the meme up, shame. Very disappointing, guys. Very disappointing. You should be ashamed of yourself. So everybody who put so much work and love and effort into the game, you went to shows to promote it, you did videos, all that work and you can't fucking finish it. Sick and tired of that. That's why I'm like big hiatus from Jersey Jack games until you prove that the game is done. So there's that. Yeah, that's one of the reasons why, well, A, I got out of it when I did because I could see they're writing on the wall with the prices hanging on it. Yeah. And then B, it's like it's causing me to hesitate buying new games because I want to see if they're going to get it finished. So it does have an impact on the buying market for sure if they don't know you're going to stand behind your product. How many people are you going to piss off, right? Like it's going to catch up to you one day. How much does it cost to go in and finish a game that you've had two years to finish? I mean, it should have been finished the day it launched, right? But why not do that? Like you guys are hurting. I'm saying this to help you. You guys are hurting yourself. You're definitely hurting yourself.
    72:14
    Do you think people who listen to this podcast and they think, oh, should I buy this game? And they hear Kevin say that Harry Potter's crashing. Harry Potter's not done. A game, Godfather, was made two years ago. We got like 3,000 listeners. You think there's some people that listen to this and say, oh, maybe I don't buy this game until it's done? That's the smart thing to do. I would not buy these games until they're done. I would not buy them until they're done.
    72:35
    Certain usually finishes them. Jersey Jack is now in very bad territory where Harry Potter is far from done based on the code that it's at. And they've got a game sitting for two years, and then Pirates was seven years. So spend your money how you want, but the market's crashing. I don't see any reason to pay asking price for these games. You're a beta tester. You're going to get problems, and you're going to get mine not even get finished. So be smart with your money, okay? Buy a game that was made three years ago that's done now. I'm trying to look out for you guys, but done with the bullshit.
    73:09
    Hall of Shame. Now that I'm fired up with Hall of Shame, I've got a person to throw in the Hall of Shame. I'm being nice. I'm not putting this person's name. I see what it is. This person stole $100 from me. Whoa. Yeah. Whoa. So we've got somebody that is a dishonorable person. It's Gizmo23 on Pinside. All right. So I bought back in April, I bought speakeasy from this gentleman. I gave this person a $100 deposit. All right. And then so here's the deal. I paid asking price for this guy's speakeasy. It was like $1,500 best offer. I was like, dude, I'll take it. Because that's being reasonable. This is how I operate. I was like, I don't play games with people. I either want it or not, like, not trying to play games. I had to pay $500 to go get this game picked up, okay? So this game is an expensive game.
    73:59
    And I was like, look, I'll even give you a deposit. So I give him a PayPal deposit. So then, like, this was three weeks later I was able to finally pick it up.
    74:08
    The person picking it up, I gave them $1,500 cash. I forgot that I had put the $100 deposit. It took me maybe like three weeks later to realize that, and I reached out to the guy on Pinside. Ignore me. Put it in a text group. Ignore me. All right, this is well over a month ago. I was giving this person time before I lit him up. So the next step is to go on Pinside and line him up too. But, yeah, Gizmo23, dishonorable person, sold $100 to me. By the way, this person also said that the game was working 100%. It was not. I had to pay a tech over $100 to fix this game for me. Kevin's probably shown the inserts on the podcast. I was just pulling it up now, yeah. He had not great pictures, and I take responsibility for not asking for better pictures for that. But this person just, I can't believe somebody would steal $100, but here we are. Look at this. Look at the insert repair on this game.
    75:06
    I should have asked for better pictures because I didn't notice it, but that's the worst. There you go. Oh, dude. So bad.
    75:13
    Yeah. So, yeah, Gizmo 23, not a good person. Hall of shame. Congratulations. You made the segment. Yep. Number one. Enjoy the $100, and you must need it more than I do. I don't know. Exactly.
    75:27
    All right. It's time, ladies and gentlemen, for everybody's favorite segment. Mods you don't need. Paraparaparaparap. All right.
    75:38
    Sorry, Nick. I did the insert illustration. Joe, did you have a blindfold on? Because that's pretty good That's pretty good Alright, we got four mods you don't need for you Thank you for everybody who submits these Because you're doing You're doing everybody a favor with this So, this one I found A few months back You remember we found that Godzilla alternate translate, do you remember? With the anime girls on it Oh yeah, it's hot stuff Well, it's not real The same quote-unquote vendor has this one, too.
    76:17
    What does this have to do with Godzilla? Oh, my gosh. It's Anime Girl lounging back, some Japanese characters on it. It doesn't even have the name of the game. It says Godzilla Destroy All Monsters Melee. That must be a video game or something. It would be pretty cool to have all your machines in your house with, like, the same kind of style, right? all of them. I hope he branches out from just Godzilla. If you're into horny alternate back glasses, this guy's your man. It's only $100. But also, it also has nothing to do with the game. Exactly.
    76:52
    At least the people with the, you know, they sexualize the back glasses a little bit more. Okay, but at least they try to remain in the theme of the game somehow. Yeah. It's like World Cup soccer where it's like the good-looking referee women. You know what I mean? So it's like, instead of Doggy Saga, you got the lady. Okay, whatever. This is just like some random anime person with the name of the game, and that's it. That's all you get. Okay, I want to know if it was translated as just anime butts for no reason.
    77:27
    Oh my god. Alright, so it's, Matt, you don't need number one. Okay, number two, remember when we talked about, let's jump back here, and for those who jumped in, we're doing giveaways soon, Hashtag win in chat if you're not already. 2x entries if you're a subscriber of the channel. So remember, we got this Mandalorian shooter accessory from straight down the middle. Nice. Officially licensed. Not obnoxious in your hand. Well, this guy says, hold my beer because look at this guy. Oh, come on. You got to load for me. Come on, Facebook. I had my big setup there. All right, let me reload it.
    78:06
    Oh my god, what if he took it down because he knew the cycle was coming up? No, there it is. Can you imagine trying to plunge that thing? Okay, so alright, yeah, this is definitely a mod you don't need. It's kind of good. It's a nice sculpt, but dude, do you play pinball?
    78:30
    Do you play pinball? That for sure will not break. Yeah, definitely. These little tentacles are... This is for the guys who buy the pinball machines, set them up in their game rooms, and then never play them. Wait, you're supposed to play them? Yeah. If you never play your pinball machine. Actually, you could break this one just by walking by it and running into it by accident. But for those listeners at home, it's the eye thing from Dungeons & Dragons with all the little eye tentacles around it. And it's the shooter rod. And it's really bad. So there's another mod you don't need. This one came up We were talking earlier about AI and people who We think are AI agents So this is I've seen this guy on Facebook So this is his profile picture Barry Barry's not real Barry doesn't exist Stern Pinball Please consider a score shield Anti-cheat kit for pinball Detect when playfield glass is removed Monitor coin door openings Log button presses outside of gameplay Disable score saving if tampering is detected Optional photo capture for high scores Works with Stern spike and SAM systems No What's the other one? Water, white water Designed for arcade tournaments and private collections Here's your hardware overview Microcontroller Arduino, Nano or ESP32 Don't read this off Kevin This is like A list of 20 things for this stupid idea.
    80:06
    Wi-Fi, Bluetooth module, SSD card for logging, vibration sensor for aggressive shaking. Aggressive shaking. Oh, that's so fucking stupid, aggressive shaking. Okay.
    80:20
    This quote-unquote guy got lit up in the chat. Love solving problems that aren't actually problems. Not just cheating affects you. People telling him to fly the flappers better. Why do we think the people who would pull the glass to cheat aren't also going to bypass a glass detection switch? Does anybody really care that much?
    80:43
    Yeah, so this image is also AI-generated of the score shield. I don't know why this exists or why it exists, but you definitely don't need this. Yeah, RLM says, wait, I can't take the glass off during a tournament anymore? You cannot with this system. That's right. It will detect you if you try to take the glass off. The cops are going to come if you take the glass off and pull you away in handcuffs. You're out of here. You're out of here, buddy. Pinball cheater.
    81:08
    Off the glass. I'm going to be with you. Some of these tournaments get won, though, Kevin, that you've got to realize. When somebody's not looking, they take the glass off, and they just give themselves all the multi-ball jackpots, and they do all the stacking, and that's it, and they win. Happens all the time. All the time. I've been to a tournament where that hasn't happened, really. That's true. It's really a scourge. That's how Martha won the flip frenzy on Thursday.
    81:30
    She's amazing. So you should get, you know, the glass-off skills. You got to have them. Okay, last but not least. All right.
    81:38
    For those who've played Star Wars, here you go. I can't be the only one who hates the left-lane drain bias in this game. So I made the adjustment post to equalize the drains, left to right. I think some others have made one, but I wasn't a fan of the cosmetics. Just me. Not sure if I like the black or blue-black mix better. Clear Titans both ways. I think I'm leaning towards blue-black mix. I'm also thinking about changing it up and doing R2D2 posts instead. Anyone had an interest if I did a run of them. So, cheater.
    82:09
    If a quote-unquote left lane bias, you know, just stuff a sock in your left out lane if you don't want to go out the left out lane. Why are you doing this?
    82:20
    So, if you're listening, they 3D printed a post and put a rubber on it, and then it's got a little bracket that screws into the play field, hopefully to an existing hole and not putting a new hole in your play field. Cheater. Could also be going into new holes. To block the left out lane for the quote unquote left out lane bias. I have an idea. How about you just go fucking do a puzzle? Okay. Pinball's not for you. You cheater. Cheater. Here you go. Here's a little video. I'm sure you can't video.
    82:52
    You can see it. There it is. Cheater. Dude, they definitely put a different post in there, right? Yeah. How did he not? There can't be two holes there, right? Yeah. And you can make it look like R2-D2 and make it even bigger.
    83:07
    You can make it cheat even more. Yeah. That's great. You know, I think what pinball needs is you can only drain down the center. Yeah. That's it. Left lane bias. What the fuck? I mean, I've said a lot of things about this game, but who cares if it goes down the left more? It's got to go out one of the three ways. Yeah. It's got to go out one of the three ways. They're not like when they're at the factory, like, did we check for the bias? Are we good? Is it 50-50?
    83:34
    Well, that's not a problem. You cheater. You're cheating. Pinball's not for you. Stop being a fucking baby. Stop being a baby. Be an adult and learn to lose. Learn to get better, okay? Either learn to lose, okay, and you suck it up like a man, or you choose to get better. Stop being a baby. Or don't buy that game if you don't like how it plays. Yeah.
    83:56
    Okay. That's all I got. I think we did good this month. Oh, we really went through that. That escalated quickly. You put cheat mods on a game and Nick gets fired up.
    84:06
    All right, let's do a review. Let's do our intro first. So here we go. We'll be right back with a review of X-Men. Let's go.
    84:26
    All right, bringing it home with a review of The Uncanny X-Men. This is released by Stern in 2024. Game design by Jack Danger. Software by Mike Gizavat and Wison Cheng.
    84:47
    Artwork by Zombie Yeti and sound by Jerry Thompson. Launch pricing, MSRP is $0.007 for a pro, $9,700 for a premium, $13,000 for an LE. Now those are running about $6K, $8K, and $10K per the pin side pricing. So, yeah, prices have tanked on this. I remember the initial look at this game. People were losing their minds. They're like, oh, my God, look at the layout. It's doing cool stuff.
    85:16
    Couldn't wait to get their hands on it. And then they got their hands on it, and things happened, which we'll get into here.
    85:22
    Nick, why don't you kick it off with the rules? Have you played this with a new – so this is in the batch of games that got new code updates this week. Have you played this since or no? All right, so we're going to do a couple caveats up front.
    85:36
    I've played this game quite a bit. All right, we've got one at the club. It's been out for a while. I have – I played, like, one game in the new code, and I wasn't really paying attention to it. I don't know the rules super well. I mean, this is a game – so this is, like, I guess old code. The code got updated this week. So we don't have an opinion on that. So just take that with a grain of salt.
    85:59
    I know the rules well enough that I just shoot the shots that are lit, and you can progress through it. Let's be honest. All right.
    86:06
    So what do I think about the quote-unquote old rules? They seem fine. I'm sure the owners will have more of a problem with them, and probably rightfully so. So don't let my saying the rules are fine, the old code, stand for anything. It's just shots lit, hit it. Some modes let you pick the modes in the game. Some modes are more difficult than others.
    86:30
    I don't know the game that well. So I'm sorry, this is not going to be the greatest review. I'm going to put that out there. I just, to be quite frank, part of me just doesn't care to learn the rules that much on this game. I struggle. We've been reviewing so many games that we like that we have to kind of talk about a game that's hanging out there that we've played enough but don't love. So, sorry for the shit review, but I don't know the rules well enough. It's very much shoot the lit shot kind of deal. It's got stuff where you go back into, you go to the future, and you're stuck there. And they revamped that, I believe. I think they shortened it.
    87:09
    I don't know. There's rules. There's certain sections of the play. If you're like midtown, uptown, subway, you hit them enough, and then it goes through a multi-ball. And there's other, each might actually hit those shots enough, and that's another multi-ball. and I believe the danger room on the left this is where I'm going to get crucified for getting this wrong if you hit like X amount of spinners or ramp or pump bumpers I think you can increase the scoring in the game so that's the one thing I really like I like that kind of lower left part of the game I never this was always like just a bread and butter type of shoot the lit shots game to me I didn't hate the rules, I didn't love the rules, it was like wallpaper.
    87:53
    Yeah. Did they nerf the danger room? Do you get your ball back if you drain when it's in there now? My God, dude. Well, there was a thing in the danger room where I think later in the game you can activate a target that would give the ball back, but that rarely happens on the old rules. RLM says the danger room is now the baby room, which is hilarious, right? Of course they did that. They're babying every game out there. The one good thing about – I'm kind of veering off a little bit, Kevin, but the one good thing about X-Men is that the games I've had on it have been all over the board. Sometimes I've had really long games, and sometimes they're just brutally short. So I do like that. It's more of like a function of how the game plays, but also that could be accomplishment rules when you start babying it up and put ball saves in there and just hand-holding. But yeah, that's too bad, man That's too bad that they put an auto-ball save And made it easy Of course they did Every game is They just make it fucking easier And they just They're catering to this group of pinball players Who just want to play a game for like an hour long And they don't want to get better They come with a detail To cover the word danger And now it's just room Baby room It's not a baby room Baby room Yeah Somebody in chat, please Photoshop that We've got to put it in Discord and Buffalo Pinball. It'll be on the thumbnail of this when we put it on YouTube. We'll just say Baby Room. That was the cool thing about this game. I know. I really like that area because it was kind of like, okay. That's the whole point. You can go in there. You accomplish something. It increases the scoring. But it was dangerous. Yeah. I like that kind of being frantic. God, they don't want to make pinball like you can lose the ball anymore. They're taking away all the excitement for pinball. Well, because then you've got people making left-drain bias mods.
    89:50
    They just put them all on the wall. They're all cheating. Yep. Yeah. All right. For fellow listeners, sorry, I didn't do a better job on rules. You'll have to forgive me for this one. Yeah. I think for me, well, owners have had this and sold it. It feels like there's just not enough meat on the bone when you have this in your home collection. I feel like it's fine when I play it at the club. because I'm not digging super deep into the rules, right? I'm playing competitively, going head-to-head with people. And I think in that situation, it seems fine, which aside from like the weird geometry issues, which we'll get into later. But from a rules perspective, I think it's okay from, you know, not, we're not talking like ISBA finals level play, but in your local leagues, tournaments, things like that, this game is perfectly fine from a rules perspective The biggest thing is like it feels like you can get to that You go to the past and then to the you go back to the present And then it like that kind of like all there is to do it And that not that hard to get to from my understanding Cause I've done it. Like my son played it the first time and got there. So it's like, I'm like, is that all there is to do? I think that's all there is to do. Maybe they're going to be adding more. So who knows? Yeah. I mean, I, when I've had longer games on it and I certainly have, it just felt very samey to me when I was repeating the same multi-balls. Like, there was nothing really exciting about the game from a rule perspective.
    91:12
    That's just, I guess, that's all I thought about. The problem with reviewing this game is that, and we'll get to it when it gets to, like, quality and gameplay, like, there's such a stumbling block there that it's hard to even really roll up the sleeves and get into the rules of this game, right? This game is very frustrating. so it's like first you gotta like be able to play a game right and it shoots well and you like it like okay and then you kind of like get the shots and you're like okay what's going on under the hood on this game for the rules perspective I can't get over the first hump we'll get there let's talk next about the art Kevin oh I know you want to talk about this art so you can take it yeah no like look I've been as you guys know I'm not a huge zombie yeti fan I think he's very talented but I don't find his art great on pinball machines however I think this is his Wheelhouse. I think, like, comic book games,
    92:04
    comic book pinball machines, is Zombie Yeti is your guy. I wouldn't pick anybody other than Zombie Yeti. He crushed it on. He delivered on this. He got the assignment. This is where, this is what you use him for. So, very well done.
    92:19
    The pictures always looked oversaturated. Didn't like it when you first saw the reveal, and then you get in there, and you're like, okay, this is good. I was trying to find certain things on the playfield when I was over our Rochester Pinball Collective, I was talking to Curtis about this, and we were like, where is this shot in the game?
    92:37
    Just staring at the playfield for so long. So the one problem with it, when you throw so much shit on a playfield, it's hard to play pinball sometimes because you're just trying to find where certain things are. And one thing a pinball player field should do is help communicate the rules to the players and where the shots are. Because there's so much text on there and stuff that gets lost. But I'm going to kind of shrug my shoulders and just say, okay, it's a comic book game. This is probably how it should look. It's hard for me really to criticize the art. And in fact, I think it's good overall. Yeah, I agree. I think it looks great. And to your point, like, Zombie Eddie just does an amazing job on these comic book themes for sure. So I think this is among his best. You know, he does have like a very busy pack style. I think, honestly, I think there's a strategy to that because if you, like, made this playfield just a whitewood, there's really not that much on this playfield. I think his art does a good job of distracting you from how little there actually is on this playfield, right? It makes it seem very vibrant, packed, lots going on, but there's just, like, a whole lot of empty space in this game. So it's a way to kind of take away that first impression of, like, oh, there's nothing going on here. To be fair, I mean, it's like Godzilla, right? Like Godzilla is like, it has about as much on Godzilla, although I would say it actually has more than Godzilla because the danger room adds more into the game. So this game is like, in terms of what's on the play field, it's like slightly more than Godzilla, I would say. Yeah, yeah. But you're like, Godzilla is a good point. I think Godzilla, if you took the art off, too, it would look, like, pretty bare. But, you know, the mechs on that are cool where they are. But, you know, people, when they, you know, pinball buyers, when they see a new game, they want to see something packed and loaded, and they want to feel like they're getting their money's worth. And I feel like the zombie Eddie art helps contribute to that first impression, good first impression. You know what I mean?
    94:40
    Yep. Okay. Sound. Ew. sound not great on this game uh it's got some really bad voice acting uh this is this is no surprise right yeah it's like it's like if you played the old x-men game and heard all the terrible call outs on that game they're like let's do it again what did everybody hate about that game it's it's it's i mean there's some truly atrocious calls on that so it's better than that but that's saying next to nothing right um it's crazy too because like these are disney licenses. You'd think they'd be like, no, you have to do the call-outs better than this. These are awful.
    95:21
    They get the job done barely. It's very middling. It's not commendable. It's just like, okay, I guess it's good. Let's move on. I remember when D&D got announced and they had actual good call-outs and voice actions. They're like, oh, finally, they heard the feedback from X-Men and they did it right. It's like, okay. They just do good call-outs on all your games.
    95:47
    Otherwise, the music is kind of forgettable. I don't really like – there's no real standout audio moments to me on this game. Is there anything that jumps to mind for you? Not at all. I mean, the music is totally forgettable, and I think that says it all right there, right?
    96:04
    Let me contrast that with John Wick, great soundtrack. I get that music in my head, and you kind of bop along to it. There's nothing. it's just I can't even I can't recall the music in this game Kevin even though I've played it dozens of times yeah if you wanted to push the nostalgia button like they just came out with the X-Men 97 reboot on Disney and it had the from the 90s the theme song like if you put that in there people would lose their minds the X-Men fans you know what I mean the people who grew up watching that on TV I'm sure it was another thing where it's like you know like much with like King Kong they're like well we'll just do our own original kind of thing and then we'll just put our own music in here and it's a money saving technique too so um yeah i mean there was some opportunity to kind of like put some noteworthy things in here and it just didn't happen you could also hire the the voice actors from that series because they did a really good job and they're they're pretty iconic in this this world and none of that really made it over here unfortunately um toys wise um this is one of those things where i feel like the saw the reveal and you saw all the cool things like the ramps that collapse and the fingers that flip the ball back and the raising and lowering sentinel head. It was like amazing.
    97:25
    Gotta have the premium. Gotta have the limited edition to have those things. And in reality they just kind of make the game super frustrating. I feel like when I played the premium or LE if the ramp collapses and the ball goes out of control, you're like, what the hell's going on? I just got punished for making that shot. I do like that the game kind of fights back a little bit, so it does make it more punishing and kind of adversarial, but it's also like this game, the shots are hard enough on this game as it is that I feel like it doesn't need that. It kind of is working against you. It makes the game less fun in my opinion. And the rising and lowering Sentinel Head is kind of like I could take it or leave it.
    98:07
    Yeah, totally take it or leave it. They said, I think, and I saw this in the code too, that the ramps don't break as much now, so they've toned that down. Maybe more of a baby game. Also, it's like a feature that you pay for, so now it's only used sparingly or once, right? So, I mean, again, I don't know. I think the consensus is the Pro is the fine version to get if you're going to get this game.
    98:30
    Yeah, the Sentinel head, I like that his little mouth opens when he gets damaged. That's kind of cool. I think that's fine.
    98:37
    But other than that, this is a review of primarily the Pro, because that's what we have the most experience with. And it's a head, and the mouth opens when you damage it, and that's your toy.
    98:51
    It's got magnets, right? Yeah, which makes sense for Magneto, right? They don't seem to do much, though. Yeah, they just kind of re-divert the ball a little bit. It is on the Pro, right? I think so, yeah. It kind of like does the power thing. It does very, it does, now that I think of it, it doesn't seem to do much, to be perfectly honest. It's so, like I'm doubting it's even in the Pro right now, but I think it is. In the original Stardust Man game, it was really cool to have the ball would get grabbed there, and then it would do the multi-ball ball lock and then spin out from there. You know, like Twister?
    99:28
    Bring it back, it's old. Yeah, go ahead. But it's now sloppy white, I guess, for the new code. And now he just breaks the ramp and you drain. The Sentinel says, oops, I'm sorry. Sorry.
    99:43
    Same thing. You know, now the new code, the finger pops up from the drain and boops the ball back in for you. It says, sorry. Oops. You drained. You didn't mean to drain, did you? Yeah, no, no. You want to play pinball forever. If you're not having an hour-long game without really engaging with the game, then what are you really doing? What are you doing? Yeah.
    100:05
    Okay. So, yeah, I think the toys are cool on this game, especially on the stepped-up one. They made some interesting mechanical interactive features. I just feel like they don't really add to the game that much, right?
    100:20
    Because I feel like that's what people always want. They want these things, these toys, these things that interact with the ball, and they're on here. but I don't know. It just seemed to make the game less fun, which is unfortunate.
    100:32
    Okay. Gameplay. Sorry, I skipped over display and lighting. Let's talk about the display and lighting. Oh, the display is bad.
    100:42
    It's like there's something with Marvel games and Stern lately where Avengers Infinity Quest had really bad animations too. That was way worse. This is better somehow. Yeah. I would say. It's an animation theme license. Like, there should be good animations in here. And there's just not, unfortunately. It's just comic book panels. There's no animations. Which I guess if you're doing a comic book game, do you have to animate it? It can just be some panels that you show? I mean, it's all a stylistic choice, right?
    101:12
    Yeah. I remember watching some early gameplay footage of this, and they may have taken it out, but there's some really bad. Even though the drawings themselves were really poorly done, which is sad and unfortunate. Because the art on the play field and the rest of the machine is really good, right? Just have Zombie Yeti do it all. I know he works hard and he's got a lot on his plate, but it would be nice to have that. Because that's what they did for Foo Fighters. Zombie Yeti did all the back box art, I think, right? All the animations. And even if it wasn't him, they did a much better job of kind of making it feel like one cohesive package between the play field and the screen. Here, there's a big disparity between the quality, in my opinion. Okay. All right. Anything with the lighting? There's some cool, like, on the premium LE, there's some cool, like, lighting effects. You know, but it's generally, like, turn the whole play field one color or the other. Some more dramatic lighting moments and things like that. But nothing real incredible or outstanding. Yeah, I think the lighting seems perfectly fine. You know, it doesn't have the expression lighting kit. So, you know, it's interesting now that you have Stern games that have them and don't have them. The ones that don't have them definitely are always going to feel like they're lacking a little bit in terms of lighting, right?
    102:30
    I don't know. I mean, obviously, that's a build of material cost, so you've got to factor in there, and it's up to the designer to do it. But it does make games of VOD that seem a little weaker in the lighting department. You can't help but notice it. Yeah, it doesn't even have the spots for it on the cabinet, right? So you couldn't add them if you had. No, it's just like, you know, Kong is a game where it chose not to do it. this is another game that shows not to do it. Yeah. Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense on the music themes, but it can add cool enhancements to other games because Wick has it, right? Wick has it, yeah. It looks good on Wick, yeah. For sure. Okay. Gameplay. Why don't you go? I feel like you were hinting at this before, so why don't you take it for the gameplay? Yeah, let's just combine quality and gameplay into one because this is where the soul of the discussion is, and this is where the problem with the game is.
    103:19
    I first played this game, I think I was in Dallas back in November, and I really liked it. I really liked that this was a unique layout and something different. I want some novelty. I want pinball designers, both from Rules and the physical design, to do something different once in a while. You don't have to always do it, but let's see something unique. And I do like this layout. Like, I do like what Jack Danger was going for here. I really like the danger room. I really like the unique shot paths of the game. And the ball does kind of move around the play field, even though the shots are back pretty quickly, especially compared to Godzilla. It doesn't delay. So it keeps the game moving.
    104:05
    Some are really surprising in terms of the ball being able to loop around or go over to the – like, you hit a side shot, and it loops around and shoots around and goes in the danger. Like, there's cool things here. I think this is, in some ways, a really good layout. Like, really good layout in some ways. And, like, my first impression of this was like, wow, I think this is pretty good. I want to see more. I want to play more.
    104:29
    So much that we got one at the club in January. And at that time, I was still kind of hot on that game. I was talking to John from the club, and he's like, I'm thinking about getting an X-Men. I was like, yeah, I kind of, you know, I played it once. I kind of like it. Like, I think that would be cool. It'll be nice to have one here.
    104:46
    And I remember reading on the forum, somebody said this, and I think it said it best. It seems the more you play this game, the more the game seems to fall apart, like almost like literally.
    104:56
    I feel like every time I play the game, the game gets more janky, and it really starts showing the problem. So here's my understanding of the situation, number one.
    105:07
    This game was released, like it got pushed up six months in development, so it was rushed. I could be wrong here, but that's my understanding. Chat, you can confirm. Yeah, I've heard similar things, yeah.
    105:19
    And I think that maybe the prototype shot great and worked great, but I think maybe tolerances are pretty tight on this. So you get into the production line, and then something's just off a little bit on the parts, and that's when the game starts falling apart. A lot of shots just don't really work. and I've played Cabin four different – I've played two different pros, a premium, and I played an LE, and they all play differently. The best one I played was up in Cabin Fever in Toronto. That one was being pre-dialed in, although that also had problems, like the ball was flying off some of the wire forms. It doesn't happen at the one at the club. The one at the club has a nasty right flipper hop, so it's really hard to hit that sentinel thing, and it's very frustrating to hit the shot. These shots should whip around and be smooth. We haven't really tried to fix that, but it's just annoying because you shouldn't have to. People have had to fix the left flipper hop, but I've actually not really seen that. I don't know. Some games had to fix it and didn't. But it's just like they all had different problems. The one in Dallas would go up one of the left ramps but then just kind of not make it all the way and kind of get stuck and zigzag and fall off. The one at Rochester Pinball Collective, the shot to the left of the Sentinel head was getting rejects left and right. And believe me, the people at Rochester Pinball Collective know how to work on games, and that's the best they can do with that. So it's just not one thing that you just fix and the game's working great. They all have these issues where the game plays very janky, in my opinion, which is a shame. Like, if they had spent more time on this and this could have been something special and it could have been maybe one of the best shooters out there, but instead it's a jank fest. So it's too bad. I like the idea of the layout. I love the danger room. But playing it, especially the one that we get to play at the club, is just an exercise in frustration because of the jankiness of it. Yeah. I played it at Expo for the first time, and I had a very similar first impression. and it was like the first time you shoot one of those shots and it does like a loop-de-loop and crosses around, you're like, well, that's amazing. That's something I've never seen a pinball do before based on a layout. I was like, that's really cool. And then you try different shots and see the different interesting ball paths and things like that.
    107:45
    But, yeah, it feels like as soon as things move a tiny little bit, this thing falls apart gameplay-wise. and I mean CERN has issued its own fixes for like the plunge like most of the time the plunge doesn't even work right and get all the way around that's right we didn't even talk about that that people have had problems yeah that's like a notorious problem that people have had and then people installed the quote unquote fix that CERN sent and it helped or didn't help you know it wasn't even a really great fix for that so super frustrating for owners I'm sure people got over this game real quick, and they were calling for updates and fixes and code and all sorts of things, which is a shame. Yeah. This game is, I'm going to be honest, this game is quite a mess. And I'm really – one thing that Stern, I would say, usually does well is their games always kind of shoot well, right? Like, they get that part pretty good. Maybe there's minor things here or there. This is the worst example of any Stern game. It almost doesn't feel like a Stern. and it feels like a third-rate, third-party kind of game with all the jankiness to it. Yeah, it's a shame.
    108:52
    Obviously, we've done a lot of Marvel themes, so it's like, well, here's a theme that didn't get a game. But, you know, just wait another two years, and they'll do another Marvel theme, and we can try again with that one, I guess. Yeah.
    109:04
    Lastability, I feel like this is, you know, all of these things kind of, like, take a huge hit on the lastability factor, and you've seen that in the second-hand market, right? a lot of these hit the market. Prices took a dump. People are having a hard time selling them.
    109:21
    Maybe things will get better since they're working on code again, and they have switched up the team, I think. They have different coders working on it now.
    109:30
    But I don't know. It's one of those things where it remains to be seen. And even if they do fix the code, how much time are you going to spend tweaking this layout all the time to kind of get it to play where you think it should play?
    109:41
    Yeah, I mean, that's my thing. this game could have the best rules of any pinball machine. And I, it's just like the way it plays is such a non-starter for me that that's why I don't, that's why I'm not spending a lot of time talking about the rules that really dig into it because it's just a exercise in frustration to play this thing. Yeah. And, uh, so quality, we talked about, you know, that, that was all part of the gameplay discussion. Uh, joy factor. Where are you at for the joy factor on this one?
    110:06
    It's, it's, uh, it is just an exercise in frustration to play this. Um, it's too bad. Again, I think that this is a pretty damn good layout. There's something there. I like it. So I think that makes it even more disappointing. So, yeah, my joy factor is it brings me no joy. It brings me just frustration and disappointment, and it's kind of sad.
    110:28
    All right, let's put a number on it. We'll take over and look at our key. Zero to two is a burn-in. Three to five is an expensive nightlight. Six to eight is a solid game. Nine to ten, get your wallet out. Where are you at on this one? I'll give it a five and a half. Yeah, I was going to say, I was originally thinking six, but I'm like, is it a solid game? I don't think it is. So I'm going to put it at a five. I feel like that's kind of where it belongs.
    110:54
    Yeah, unfortunately. There's a lot of potential here with the layout. You know, it was just kind of all fell apart when it came to production and the long-term viability of this game. I mean, hopefully they get the code somewhere where it can help, but it's just kind of a mess, this game, unfortunately. Can I highlight, Kevin, that none of the games that started – Yeah, you froze. We'll put it on pictures of the game.
    111:40
    There's something that happens when we get to, like, just before two hours where this always has been happening. So I think it's, like, the Internet's way of telling us to wrap up the show. And good news is we're to the end of the show, so I'll throw it over on. on this one. And we'll say, uh, don't forget if, uh, if you want some Buffalo pinball merch, you can go to Buffalo pinball.com slash, uh, and, and check out the, uh, the merch tab at the top of the page, get yourself some sweet, um, shirts, stickers, swag, all sorts of stuff like that. Look, look at all, you could be looking good. These guys are probably not even AI. I don't know. They're just like the default, uh, um, models in the, in the store. So you can get yourself a mug, stickers, shirts, all that good stuff.
    112:41
    Follow us on social media. If you haven't, we're on all of your favorite platforms. The email is talkpinball at gmail.com. If you want to send us some feedback about the show or have questions or comments, always love to hear those.
    112:57
    You can support the channel by subscribing or sharing your Twitch Prime with us. It always gets you more entries into our giveaways when we do those. And we're going to do those right next. So if you haven't yet, hashtag win in chat to get in to win. We're going to pull them right after I wrap this up. PayPal. You can drop us a PayPal donation if you like. Bufflepinball.gmail.com or if you want to support us, you can do so by reviewing us. Giving us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform. We would appreciate it. All right. So here we go. You had all show to get in. Let's do our giveaways. And then stick around because we got episode 28 of Topper Talk. So don't go anywhere. Even if you don't win, there's content worth hanging around for. Alright, we got 28 entries. So the first one, let's see. I'm going to move you over here. And then actually, I got to move this over here so I can show everybody.
    113:54
    So you can see what we're doing. Okay. So we're going to draw number one. This is going to be for we'll do this for the pin brawlers pinballers B-A-W-L-E-R-S shooter plate from Elton John. Here we go. The winner is Silvergun360. Silvergun360, congratulations. You are the winner. Just let us know if you're hanging out and you accept. We will give that to you.
    114:28
    Let's see. Are you back? You're back. You did. I didn't. okay Nick came back he's here so Silvergun let us know if you're in the US we will hook you up he's here they said Nick has no audio we can't hear Nick so Nick says it's got to be US only I don't know why he's falling apart okay let's do these giveaways for the we'll do the Avengers Infinity Quest Art Blades next I'll see we'll draw an entrant it is Buffalo Pinball no I reject that I think that's I always do a test to see if I will if make sure everything's all set up right and it has never picked me it's picked me this time so alright let's pick another one Wee's8015 You get some Adventures Infinity Quest Art Blades. Congratulations.
    115:38
    We can bring those to the club. That's an easy delivery. Alright. The Mando Shooter Rod from Flippin' Out. Thank you, Flippin' Out. We're going to go ahead and draw a winner.
    115:53
    Mr. Mike Man. Got a Mando Shooter. Congratulations, Mr. Mike Man. And then for the Godfather pinball banner, here we go.
    116:12
    It is Digital Jedi. Woo! He did it. Congratulations, Digital Jedi. Those are all of our giveaways. we will either Nick will connect with Silvergun to give away that the Elm Giant shooter plate and all the other ones will connect you with flipping out a pinball to get you okay Silvergun send an email to buffalopinball at gmail.com with your mailing address to claim your prize. Okay?
    116:55
    Nobody can hear or see Nick, so I'm relaying on his behalf. He's in the U.S. So, buffalopinball at gmail.com. Silvergun, send to that, and we will hook you up. Everybody else, we will send to our good friend at Flippin' Out Pinball. Alright! Just as the stream is falling apart, we're going to pass this along to our friend Goran to wrap it up with another episode of Topper Talk, where he's going to talk about the hot new stern toppers, the expression toppers. Don't miss this one. Stick around for that. In the meantime, enjoy your summer. We will see you in a month or so for the next episode, and have a good month in the meantime. See ya. Bye.
    117:51
    And a topper there, here a topper, there a topper, everywhere a topper. It's critical to the gameplay experience, you must buy one now. It's your monthly fill of toppers right now. Topper Talk with Goran.
    118:07
    Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Topper Talk with Goran. The part of the podcast where Kevin and Nick give me about three to five minutes to talk about everything happening in the very active and profitable topper community. Now on today's episode we'll be talking about the new Expression Light toppers from Stern Pinball. So, attend to the office and talk about that now. Okay, so here we are in the office. Let's dive right into the topper. So, here it is. It goes on top of your game, obviously. Who would have thought?
    118:32
    And so, this is the Stern Expression Light topper. It's part of the Expression Light ecosystem, so I guess that's the lights on the inside of the cabinet.
    118:43
    I think the speakers are now part of it as well. It's all these interactive lights, additional interactive lights with the game, essentially. So you have this interactive light strip is what's being added, and then these plates that can be added that are essentially the topper.
    118:58
    Right now, with what they've released, I'm not the biggest fan of them. I mean, I like lights. I like interactive lights, so I guess that's cool. But you've got the Star Wars one right now, which just repeats Star Wars above it. It feels cheap. Or you can do a stern pinball topper as well. I'm guessing these are maybe more meant for arcades to attract people over to the games, which was the initial intention of toppers in the first place. But the other thing I'm very unclear about is the pricing. It sounds like it's $400 just for the blight strip, and then to add the plate is another $100. So you're $500 all in for a topper, which is quite expensive. To compare, the Guns N' Roses one from JJP was like $250, $300, something along the lines of that. Uh, this, it just, this isn't my favorite thing. I also don't know, I know that they can easily be swapped, but I don't know who's swapping toppers between games or who wants to have a stern topper on top of their game. I don't know. Not for me. Um, you know, but, but I mean, I like lights, so they're cool. I like that part of it. Uh, and yeah, you can kind of see how the edges change with the interactive light. So, yeah, this is the new thing that has just come out, and those are my initial thoughts on it. I look forward to seeing what games they add, see if there's different art variants that are maybe more interesting than what's been released so far. Thank you for tuning into this episode of Topper Talk with Gorin. Tune in to the next podcast for another episode, and as always, get out there and buy a topper. Thank you for coming to my Topper Talk.
    120:42
    you