You pass through this door into the realm of Shaggy and Norton. Beyond it is another dimension. You're moving into their world, a pinball and arcade games. Both EM and Solid State. You have just crossed over into the Topcast Zone. You're listening to Topcast, this old pinball's online radio. For more information visit them anytime, www.marvin3m.com. Flash Topcast. Welcome to Topcast tonight. We're going to be speaking with a guy that's a pinball book author from Australia. He's written three books called the Pinball Compendiums Volume 1, which is a pinball game from 1930s to 1960s. Volume 2 from 1970 to 1981. Volume 3 from 1982 to 2005. So we're going to give him a call right now. Give Michael Shaloop from Australia a call on the phone right now. Michael, can you hear me okay? Michael, I can hear you. So we got Michael Shaloop on the line. Michael, what part of Australia are you from? Sydney. You're in Sydney. Probably 20 minutes south of Sydney. Okay. And you've done the three volumes of the pinball compendium, what the 1930s to 1960s, the 1970s to 1981 and then 1982 to 2005. That's right. Those are your babies right? They're my babies' babies' babies. Yeah. Tell me about those books. What made you decide to do this? You've been in pinball for a long time, right? You were born in 1962. You're like the same age as me. And you got into pinball pretty early, right? Well, I started playing, you know, the first recollection of pinball machine was back when I was probably six years old. And the first machine I played was cupidol. And that's when my fascination started for the syllable. You asked about the books and why I wrote them. The one thing that I think was lacking in a lot of books is not many pay tribute to the people behind the scenes like the designers and the artists. The only book that really come close was a book, probably one of my favorites by Roger Sharp called Pinball. And I just saw with my books, I'll just take it one step further and actually interview everyone that I can that has worked and been involved in the industry. Yeah, we just had Roger Sharp on the show. We interviewed him just a couple days ago. And yeah, that book is incredible, but it's really hard to find. Well, what he done, and I just wish I was around when he was around, because I think that was just, his book just, well, I have enough a lot of doaways for me, because it just really inspired me to do what I ended up doing by with you all this people play. So you've got like 300 games in your collection? Yeah, it's close to 300, but the men that's got the biggest collections, probably my friend Alan's, hey, he's got close to 2000. Yeah, we talked to Lee Fedwick, of course, whose help in Alan, open up the Australian down under Pinball Museum, right? Yes, that's correct. And you're working with him too? Oh, it's like I'm helping cohort mate, it leaves the person that does all the restorations in that. Lee and Alan are under, yeah, we're the ones that picked the games out. So it's a big thing, we've been, there's been something that's been in the planning for many years, and slowly it's all coming together. Is, yeah, you guys have property purchased, right? Well, he's bought the property, but I think he's trying to look now, actually getting somewhere that's more, a bit closer to where the theme parks are. I'm not really sure, he's had that, as we speak now, he's having meetings with different people to try and get a better location. And once that's established, well then the building will go up and hopefully the dream will become a reality. And now are there going to be some of your machines in there too, or just all Alan's? Yeah, yeah, it'll be, yeah, but at the end of the day, quite even, when I went to your house, you've probably got a mini museum in your basement. But at the end of the day, how many machines can you really set up and enjoy? So I've come to the conclusion that look, I can have maybe 20 machines set up at my house. Now the unfortunate thing with in Australia is we don't have tornadoes and cyclones, and that's where we don't have any basement. So there's no houses here that have got basement. So we're very limited to where, and how many machines we can actually put in our houses. Is that because the water level is too high and you dig down, you hit water or why no basement? Yeah, we get nothing, but it's like we have to get in, you're right there in Sydney, but we don't get snow, we don't get anything. So all you listen to is the beautiful part of the world come down and visit this one, but you know, fantastic. I'm going to come visit and knock on your door. Because that you might say welcome, buddy. Yeah. The thing is, it's for him. So a few years ago, when I met Alan, I've met Alan for many years, but my guy had mischrains. I remember one of my babies was a 1952 cyclist, with the animated background for the baseball one, and I loved that machine. And look, I even mornocked out. A minigame. A lot of machines that Alan didn't have, and I think it looked, and these are machines really that you should go to a museum. They should be free for them to enjoy. So you're talking about the 1952 Williams pinball slug fast. Yeah. It's a pinball machine. Yeah, but it's got the running man unit. Yeah. With the guys going around the bases. One of my favorite games. How popular? And another one of my favorites in that area was the Silver Skates. The Williams 53 Silver Skates. Right. How popular is baseball, though American baseball, in Australia? Well, what makes it popular is the, well, it was a machine that never looked, that's a machine that I'd go out from the States. Oh, okay. That machine, that could be the only one here. I don't know of any other slight person, Australia. Gotcha. Yeah, and baseball, baseball as a sport is not big in Sydney or in Australia. But the fact that he's a pinball machine that's got back-line animation, especially baseball. Yeah, baseball's were popular in the 60s and the 70s and we said them, but we're talking about more of the 60s, more like a grand slam, 64 grand slam. And that was a few of those around. But none of the early machines ever come to Australia. There wasn't like good distributors there that would bring in stuff in at that, you know, in the 50s and 60s. Not in the early days. So, Godly, Godly, but even late 60s, it was all Godly. Sydney and Australia was all Godly. But distributors, I think Godly had the whole world market and they had distributors alive at the place. But most of the machines in Australia were Godly machines. Okay. So, now, most of your machines then you bought in the States and then you had to import them into Australia? Yes. Now, what are you going to do about the voltage conversion, you know, the 120 volts versus 220 volts? Okay. What we do is we use a, it's called a step down transformer. That steps the voltage from 240 to 110. And that's what the engine machines worked on in the States at 110. All machines up until I think 60, 64, but Bailey had a multi transformer that could be tapped for 240 end 110. Now, I think machines from 65, 66, I think Bandwagon was one of the first to use this transformer. All four was another one that we can just tap into it. But Godly's up until the sevens, we've got to put down a step down transformer. I got you. Okay. Cool. Well, let's talk about your books some more. Like, I noticed most of the pictures in, I got in front of me, I have the 1930s and 1960s one. Great book too. I mean, all color, 100% color. And great pictures. But it seems like most of the pictures are your games and Allens games, right? Yes. Yes, all the games, those games, probably three collectors in Australia, Alan Tate, myself and another gentleman, Jason Douglas. I didn't want to, there's I think only two machines of memory that I had to get fired is because the machines were actually buried, we couldn't get fired. I think that was Minstrel Mann and instrument, it may be knockout. Okay. So how long did it take you to put this book together? Well, all the, initially, when I started writing the book, I was just going to write one book on pin more machines and depending on the information I'd gathered, I thought I can't take the, the published, I said, look, we, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm maybe going to be two volumes and then we had to do it again into three volumes. So the overall things, probably, and five, six years in my life. Really? Wow. And I noticed that I, I believe the, the distributor, the, what, the Schaefer publishing or whatever, they were kind of required you to put prices on everything. Is that, is that why there's prices on everything? Yes, quite yes. They, they like that. They like to turn everything kind of into a pseudo price guy, right? Well, they, look, I was, look, that was just, look, that's an area that I think looked, and at the end of the day, and this is something that I wrote about this in every three book, what it is a pin more machine work. And so many of pin more machines work what someone's ruined the pay for it. Right. Yeah, of course. You might, you might have a knockout. Well, what's that work? You might look at a, a prize guy to, what a Larry's or, or, they in a particular prize guy, well, they might only put, it's only worth a thousand dollars. But then you might want four thousand for you. So it's probably only give you four thousand. Well, that's what it's worth. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's a great book. I mean, because you also have a lot of factory photos in there and a lot of, like a lot of pictures of the designers. You know, I mean, it's, it's really, really a nice book. I mean, you really did, really did a great job on it. You know, I mean, did you have fun making it? Well, a lot of fun, quite. But the most fun was actually meeting the people at the time. And that's why I've, yeah, for the last, you know, I've been going to the States since 2000. And I go to meet the people that's like, you know, I tend to pimp or expel over a year, it's like a family get together. And over the years, and maybe a year, quite a lot of time over the years. And I think you're doing a fantastic job, even with your videos and your talks. And, and now this is just fantastic. I hope you come back to Pimple Dream a lot because you bring in regenerating an interest in this fantastic game that I know billions of people around the world have enjoyed. I hope you come back and visit me in the fall again for the next expo because I should have things a little more jelled. You know, I got like 100 machines in my basement, but I didn't have, you know, when you guys came, it was a little bit of an disarray. Disarray, I would like to, you know, when next time you guys come, you're, are you going to expel again in the fall? Yes, yes, I look, yes. Are you going to be taking it and becoming a little more emboggling walking into your basement? I couldn't believe some of that maintenance. If ever you want to donate any of those pleases to the museum, they're clever. It would be more than ever to take them off your hands. I love it, how you see that. Yeah, I'm sure you can. And those bowling games are fantastic. Yeah, I get America's the place, so that's where Pimple's here. Pimple Capital, the world Chicago, and it's just been a dream, even as a kid, I remember playing a Pimple machine called Target, pulled it with a 69. Yeah, got me, got me. Right. I remember playing it, I remember coming home and I got, and my uncle was a carpenter, so we had all this bits of timber at home, so I got a bit of a board, and I remember getting the nails, like I put them, and I set it out, and I put them in the middle, where the target's well, I actually put little nails in, I got two little pegs, and then as I was playing it, this thought, what you had come to me, I wonder who designed this game. I must have only been maybe 10 years old, and well, when I done this, when I made this little Pimple machine at home, and who would have thought that many years later I'd have been privileged to get to know the disorder of that machine at Khrinsky, and I mean, over the years, I've really got to know Lina, who's house, and her family, and it was just an honor, and it's like a dream come true, and people often say to me, what's your highlight? What's your highlight? I do it all these books, I often say, one of them was reading play Harrel, of course. Oh, yeah, of course. But the one that really, I really feel most honored in doing, and something that's very, you know, someone's getting emotional about it, the one thing is seeing, actually I was the one that inducted at Khrinsky in the Pimple Hall of Fame. Oh, you convinced Peasack and Burke that that was the right thing to do? Well, this man worked, actually I've got to get on to Dena, and to all you, the listeners of the Australia, Ed Khrinsky designed a lot of games, he still doesn't get credit for. I don't know if people are aware that he worked at Keeney in the 58 to 64. He was at Keeney, so all the machines that were manufactured by Keeney, like machines, like Doe Carth, a few of others, but he designed all those. Okay. Now Keeney went out though, like in the 60s, right? Well, look at it, when Khrinsky left, because he was the sole designer at Keeney, when he went to Gottlieb, Keeney was out of business. Right. They may have longer had a Pimple of his honor. Right. Yeah, I mean, when Khrinsky went to Gottlieb in 64, that's when Pimple stopped at Keeney. Right. Right. Well, so what is your favorite era? I mean, do you like games on the 50s or 60s and newer stuff? What's your favorite era? Oh, quite a hub. I love every year. There's part of me. I love playing the old 50s machines. I love Queen of Hearts. I love the 50s, but I love the 60s as well. I love King's and Queen's Buckaroo. I geese, litching. I love those. But I love the 70s as well. I love King Pinel de Rato, Jacob Hagar, something, Jake. But the 80s, I'm not very keen on the 80s, but I love the 90s as well. You see, I'm just like you, this is amazing because I tell people that my favorite era is the 50s, playing the Woodrails. Even though I wasn't even born in the 50s, and I have no recollection of ever playing a Woodrail, you know, any time in the last five years was probably the earliest I ever played a Woodrail, but I think they're just what they did with them. They're so cool. The artwork and they did so much with so little and they're great games. I mean, strategically from a gameplay perspective, they're really great games. And I like the 60s stuff too. 70s stuff. Yeah, it's okay. 80s stuff. I really care for much at all. And then again, I start liking it again in the 90s. So I'm pretty much just like you. Yeah, which is cool. I mean, I've been going through my Woodrails. I've got a whole slew on them. I'm trying to get them all juke up for you when you come in the fall. So they'll all be ready for you. So you can play them. Oh, thank you. I've got to have a couple of it. Actually, you're very good on your bowling machine. That's a... Yeah. Now, do you have any bowling machines? I don't. Alan's got a few. They just, they just again take up a lot of room. Yeah, they're sure good. But they just look, I love all games. I love, I love the gun games. I love all types of arcade games. I'm just... And that's... I love the wood in here. So that's why it's... Look, I had a couple of very rare gun games, which Alan's got on there. Even the Chicago, all my cranes and that balance there, all at Alan's now. And this is all for the museum. It's all worth, hopefully. And they'd all be working and probably will have one of the biggest collections in the world. There'll be great times in that up and that time, and I'm really looking forward to doing, you know. Do you really think you can get 800 machines? You know, I mean, I read your kind of your web thing, and it said that you were talking about 800 machines at the museum. Is that cool? Well, I know Alan's got over 15, 150,000 games, including mine. So, yes, imagine that Joshua Clay, imagine close to 2,000 the shame set up. That's including all the countertops, all the small arcades in that. A lot of pre-30s and all the 40s as well. Are you helping them restore those? I mean, that must be it. No, no. I'd be more helping him once on the technical side. That's where I can really help him with the repairs and leave Philbig. But for one man to get 2,000 machines with his nearing possible, once the building starts getting directly, I'm going to put in different paper lines. I've even suggested bringing you back, Joshua Clay, when you tell me that your expertise, I was going to be going. Yeah, there you go. Sure, yeah. You know, I can't. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to come out and spend like two weeks of holiday visiting you guys, and I'm going to fix 1,000 machines. Oh, these fantastic, right now. I get to spend 10 seconds on each game. I'm fixing it. Yeah. And I'm looking, Joshua Clay, I don't know if I just mentioned this to your listeners. Look, I'm working on one more book on Pimble. I'm going to do another book on Pimble, I'm showing this. And what is this one? Well, the reason behind this one, I've become a good friend to Valve and got over the years. And I used to always say, Valve, do you got any photos for me? And probably out of just that tracking, you know, my favorite section, my favorite chapter in the three books will be the chapter on the Pimble Pioneers, which is involved in two. Okay. And Valve, and again, gave me some beautiful photos. There's a photo with him and his father, another photo in the boardroom, another photo, I think, in 1952, a couple of distributors. And in that section as well, I've got a photo of the Ginsburg brothers. Nothing that's the only time anyone's ever seen the four brothers together. Really? Yeah. That's it. That's the next section. So anyway, after book three was just had gone to the shiffer to get into the process of becoming a book, Valve and Gaze and Gizmi, like another 40 photos. Again, no one's ever seen these before. Right. There's a lot of these are brilliant. I've got other more photos of Harry Mab, the men of the Inventor, the flip-up. I've got all these photos. I think in what do I do with these photos? I thought, well, I can probably put another book together. But this book will be more about, see my three books, Clier, and not about the pictures. Everyone says, oh, how do you pictures are smaller? Well, unfortunately, my books were not about the pictures. They were more about the interviews. So that's, so this book that I'm working on now will be more about the pictures. Where you can actually look at the play field. Like, I was trying to show someone a picture of Popeye. I'm just using that as an example. I haven't got my book. That's really the play field photo. It's a terrible photo. You can hardly see the machine. So now, in this book, you'll be able to see the play field and the backlight. It'll really bring it to life. Plus, a lot of photos are behind the scenes. From Alvin, I've got a few more from Gensberg, which was so Chicago-Corn in Genkau. That'll just make it a bit more interesting. So, you know, I understand that the Chiffler is an easy publisher to work with. Is that true? Yes, yes. Some, yes, they're very, they're very, very good. I mean, if somebody wanted to do a book, and they basically had a concept, and they had the photos, and they had the text, I mean, is it, you know, do they do a lot of the work for you, or do you have to actually lay the whole thing out, and, you know, and hand them photo-ready art? I mean, you know, how much do they help, really? Well, they, they said, they said they have people that are so interested in the book. There's a couple of places in, in volume 2, for example, I felt that some of the photos are really small, and there's a lot of wasted space. I call a lot of, like when you say a lot of white, I call that wasted space. I like to see, I like big photos, Joshua Clay. So, but other than that, they were fantastic, they were. If someone out there, any of you read it, whether they want to do a book, I've been more, or whatever, they're very good to work with. And who comes up with the pricing information? Is that something that you had to come up with, or do they have their own research team? Um, the pricing on the bottom of every game? Yeah, you know, how they do that, they put the price on, you know, like every picture has, you know, basically has a price associated with it. Okay, well I, I, um, okay, I've done some research, but see, when you, and the prices, and this is what I've stayed in the book, these are class 1 machines. Right, right, fully restored work. Even if some of those may not be a class 1 game. So, it's hard to, you know, like, people say this class 4, class 3, class 2, class 1, and which, and it could be thousands dollar difference between, between the games. So, I, I, uh, I went to a couple of websites, um, classic pinball, um, boardens, what boardens, right, um, herb-silver, pinball, um, there's a season that, yeah. So, what are all these different types? What they were asking for their class 1 games, I had like 20 sites, and I just got an average, and that's where the classes come from. Okay, I was just kind of curious. I know that, you know, if you, uh, the Schiffler, uh, company, you know, they put out books on a lot of different books on a lot of different subject matter, you know, all collection based books. And that's one thing that they always seem to require is that everybody have pricing for, for everything. You know, they, they like to make their books like a price guide type thing. You know, I guess that's kind of an angle that they take, you know. Um, which, which is, look, some games is very hard to come with the price. Well, um, oh, yeah, it was absolutely a lot of research. And then some people criticized and said, look, yeah, you, you can, why over the top, this is a machine that I picked up. You know, look, look, I know people that have picked up on a guy in Missouri that picked up a mermaid for $100. I got my mermaid for free. Yeah, well, I'm just saying, so what's the machine worth? If you want it to free, what's the worth $100, $100? I think it's worth $10. grain, I don't know, what's that about? What's that? I think it's worth $10. Yeah. And, well, my buddy Mars will just put into their credit and ship it straight. I know why. And we've caused too much for shipping. The shipping would eclipse the value of the game. I just don't think it's worth it, Michael. I, I'm sorry. I just don't. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, it's why I understand. I'm teasing you, of course. Of course. Yeah, so, you know, I, I really enjoy the books. And, you know, when you, when you came to Expo, you know, you're like kind of an icon, kind of an icon of expo. I mean, you know, I always see you at expo and you're, you know, every time I turn around, you're right there. I mean, you're like, I, you must not sleep the entire time you're in Chicago, you know, you're, you're, because you're everywhere. Every time I turn around, I see you and you got, you know, big smile on your face and you're talking to somebody, you know, it seems like you're having such a really good time. Well, I think that's what that's what expo is all about. I say that the family gets together with, and I look for the scene everybody, I look for the scene you again, I look for even a showberg, a pin game journal and just, it is a lot of fun. It's just good to catch up of all the people that I've interviewed and, and, and, and, and, and see, it's also enjoyable to sort of a new people to come to me, it's a new people to enjoy and people, at the end of the day, I don't make, you know, like people tell me how much money you made out of the books, but quite I've made nothing out of these books. Oh, really? But I'll never write the books to make anything out of them. It's a, it's a passion. It's something that I, you know, I've loved pinballs all my life. I've genuinely loved pinballs all my life. You know, I'm, you know, there's, there's, if you write a book, there's no, right, there's, when you write a book, there's really no money in any, there's no profit incentive at all, huh? No, I'll cry. You know, one of this, one of the disasters, people say, well, about your first book, the fighters, or yellow, this and that, originally, Shufa wanted all the photos done on slides. So I actually hired professional photographers to go and take photos using slides. So, so, and, and the same amount of money I thought, what I'll do, I'll develop all these in one at once, and I'll save money on, on getting them developed. So anyway, I took them all to this photo lab, and when they come, like, they've probably 99% of the photos were at disaster. Really? It was very expensive. I merely had a, anyway, so, so most of the photos in there, I ended up, well, probably over half of them were, I just went on a quick course on photography, and I, and I took me on photos. Yeah, but that was anyway now. It's all digital. You can, they can use digital, they can, it's a lot easier to take photos, and you can actually see what you're taking, and if it's out of focus, that's okay. So you can really take it. It's a lot easier now to photos in that way. Right. What kind of camera do you use for this stuff? I've got a Nikon, I've done it at the model, but it's a, yeah, it's a digital. And it's a digital. But it's a digital, right? A digital camera. Yes, digital camera, yes. Is it like eight megapixel or type thing, or is it higher or low? It's six, so it's got all the gimmicks you can really zoom in close and it's really nice photos of five pixels and that. Okay, we're going to take a break from our interview with Michael Shalube, author of the pinball compendiums, and we will be right back. Okay, we're back with Michael Shalube, the author of the pinball compendium volumes one through three books. Now you also run a pinball repair business there in Sydney, right? Yes, yes. I run a company called Pinball Master Sales and Service. Well, let's tell me about that. Yeah, well, that's something that's, yeah, I nearly probably over 20 years now. I just, I'll go out and, you know, go and repair people's machines, and I help them get machines. I've got a lot of people that I can get machines from. So I help people track down those, those games, they played maybe near miss spend you for if someone's after actually, when you rang earlier today, I had some guys that were supposed to be with six angels arrived here, but they just born an Adams family, which I've got a, I've got a few machines in the garage. Not really for sale, but if someone wants a particular machine, they can come over if I've got a whole lot of sell it to them. So that's something I do. I've done a lot of repairs over the years. Actually, I was talking to someone today, which I've done a repair today for a gentleman, he's actually got a TV show where he's like Andrew Denton, it's called Denton Live. So next time Gary Stern comes down, I'm going to try and get him on TV in Sydney and try and promote Stern Pinball here. Wow. So do you specialize mostly in like AM repairs or solid state repairs? No, I do everything. I do anything from the, I can do from the 50s, all the way through to the lowlands. Okay. And as far as the pinwall scene in Australia, I mean, how popular is pinwall there? Well, it's probably not as popular as it is in the states, but it is very, very popular. And are there a lot of machines in people's homes? Yeah, yes, a lot of machines. There's a lot of machines here. I think the interest with pinwall machines, especially in the 70s, pinwalls were everywhere. Like you couldn't go to any shopping mall, there's a lot of them using a lot of snooker, snooker holes, lot of pool holes, I mean, bowling centers, laundromat, they were everywhere. So people, especially in my age group, would have would have played pinwall machines. The unfortunate part now is there's not many machines down on location. So a lot of people are buying and putting them in their homes and I've got the pleasure. I go out and, and some of us, I help them trade down these machines, especially if they pay them as it's had their miss spend you, I could go a lot longer, go, he wanted a king cool, because that's a machine he used to play the corner shop, well, I helped him trade one of those down. So that's a machine. Well, he should have sent his face claim when I delivered it, which is like a little boy, you know, giving him his first first bit of candy, so excited. Now, are machines expensive there, or are they about the same prices they are here? Probably in the same price, but there's a lot of machines coming into a square from Europe, Europe, but I don't know how, where they're getting all these machines from, like there's this same many machines in Europe. Look, I've already even brought out a couple of containers from Germany, and I've waited them here, but, but around the same price, maybe a little bit more here. Okay. So the wood rails for sure are a lot more here, because wood rails, client looks in a wood rail, pay more the same for now, the stride for years. Really? 100%. They just not around. Huh. Now, you said you have like 300 games in your collection, but you're only able to set up like 20 at a time? Yes, yes. Okay. And of your 300, are they, you know, what percentage do you have restored versus just, you know, versus just storage? I probably, in store, probably a third of them will be probably stored, restored. Okay. And just put away, but the other, I've always kept the best machines. It's like the machines that I've got in my collection, they're all in, if not class one, they're being classed to the condition. Okay. And you buy a lot of parts from the US, you know, like pinball resource or whatever, to restore them, or can you get a lot of stuff locally? Oh, they make you get nothing. There's nothing locally, and the couple of companies that do sell parts, they're just in family price. So, yes, pinball resource we find is a great source of spare parts. Well, we've got another gentleman in Chicago, pinball life. He does, rubber is very chavng, he's got a lot of cheapness. There's probably a 500, 600 percent marker from pinball life's prices by time they get over here and people start selling them. So, what retailers are there in Australia to buy parts from? Is there anybody? Yes, there's a place in Melbourne, dump action in newsrooms, there's Mr. Pinball in Melbourne as well, there's a place in Pinball Mania, and I'm happy days in newsrooms. There's a few different places around that retail and sell parts and all that. Okay. All right, and I mean, if you go into these, any of these shops, is it all going to be like 90's machines? They're not going to have any electromechanical stuff. Yes, but no electromechanical, all monies machines. Right. Probably now, probably just the last, probably mostly all stern machines. Oh, really? Yes. So, stern is a big importer in Australia. Oh, yes, yes, yes. The family guy, actually the family guy and prior to the Caribbean, and like hits down here, which is great for pinball. That's what I was only thinking about today, because I'm thinking of what we've got to get Gary to go on to and help from. And a lot of people today, it's probably like the states that would be buying machines, bringing you. Right. Right. Yeah. There's a new market there. There's people that have actually buying machines, probably distributed on my tag in Straitheim. And now, be connected with a new used to come W.W. If only. Sure. Yeah. I always thought that was kind of goofy, you know, to, you know, write a check for $4,000 US and, you know, bring a new pinball machine home. Man, it just seems so extravagant to me, but, you know, kind of looking back on it now after, you know, you've seen it happening for a few years, you think, well, you know, maybe it's not such a bad idea, because it seems like you can always get your money back when you go to turn around and sell the game, you know. Well, this is, you imagine a few years ago, you know, I feel that maybe five years ago, you could have been picking up many of your madmases or cactus canyons or, you could have bought all of them, but look at those today. Yeah, people are trying to get between $8,000 and $9,000, they're trying to make sure that's the change. Right. Right. So you're, you basically work full time doing pinball repair in people's homes, and? Yeah, yeah, but I work for myself. I, say what I try and do, I just put in a big day, you know, and, yeah, just going to do repairs and all that. And now I'm actually starting, I'm putting the four book together for that, but there's a lot of work out. I've actually, I've written the book. And you're just assembling it. Yeah, so let's just take a lot of time. Is the layout the worst part? Yeah, well, well, the worst part is marking all the photos and then marking where the photos are going to go in the book. It just takes a lot, a lot of time. Well, that's why I was trying to figure out, like, if you were doing a book, I mean, do you actually like set up like pieces of cardboard that represent a page and like, you know, glue the text on there and then, you know, set the photo where you want it with a little caption. And then is that how you actually lay it out or is it, or is that too low level? You'd see it's more electronic, you know, you're using a page maker or something like that. I mean, how do you do that? Now, I just, I give, I give the text, I give the photo, and they, they prefer the layout all that themselves. Oh, they do. I mean, like, three books, I can lay any of that out. Okay. I was kind of curious if that, you know, how much work they make you do, you know. And then, so how many of your books do they print and how many of you sold? I don't, it's something I don't want to know. They don't tell you. A million of each bar, I don't think it's that high. So I don't know. Because I'm just kind of curious how popular pinball really is. You know, I, it's, you know, because we're in it, you know, you want to say, oh, it's real popular, but, you know, it's just, it's really hard for me to evaluate, you know, in the mainstream population, how, how much popular appeal pinball really has to the masses. You know what I mean? You know, I, I am a, well, I think most of the people that collect machines or have any interest in pinballs will probably have my book, but people who, who probably have an interest, but they know that the book's out there. There's a lot of people here when I do pinball repairs, I always carry my books with me in people's house, you know, books and they normally at first glance, they love the book, they end up buying because that's how I distribute in Australia, the books are insanely priced. Really? Well, the, the distributes, everybody, it's all about money, my time, they miss, my book in Australia, people are trying to get like 140 to 180 dollars a book. Really? I mean, you can go on, I was looking online today at Amazon.com and there, you know, 30 to 50 dollars depending on which volume. Yeah, I know, I know, but so you think how can, that a lot of Australians have been buying and from Amazon? And someone, because I never had volume, surrounding just got volume, because I sold it just after Christmas last year. Yeah, people, I just tell you, you'll get an Amazon, they ship them out. So people email me all the time, I'll wake, wake up on your book, I'll just have to look up, I'll make a stock and you can get a few different Amazon. Right. That works out a lot safer. Yeah, and even Jim at the Penn Game Journal, you know, he sells them too and his places are really reasonable too. You know. Jim, yeah, Jim's, well, Jim, I gotta say, Jim Schelberg has helped me out over the years, and like he supplied many photos for, for book three, he's just a great guy, Jim. And, you know, if you don't listen to this, I'll thank Jim for your help, I really appreciate him. I've always to bug him all the time, but actually, I even rate hands though, I remember rate hands are one of the few days he had off, and he's had to have in the game a golf in his cell phone ring. He says, who could this be? You know, he could like, he's shallown, what are you doing? You know, so I was very persistent to get the story. So I think a lot of people just gave up and just gave me stories and photos and all that. Well, you know what, I was reading in one of your books that you were one of the last people to interview Harvey Heise, who worked for Gekko. Yeah, just before he died, you were like the last person that interviewed him. How did that go? Well, it was very, look, on you, Harvey was very sick, weeks prior. And I remember I actually rang him and I stayed through his door to Janice. The book was, you know, the book was nearly ready. It just had gone the print and I rang him the toll frame in his store to look, he's not doing too well. I said, look, Janice, I just want to confirm your address because the book's going to, you know, I'll live the book, having a couple of weeks and I'd love you that to see it and let me know what you think of it. And the next time I rang him, the tell of the book was going to be sent out. She said, yeah, that's what I heard that Harvey just passed away. Wow. And when I was doing the interviews over the fine, he was just a wonderful gentleman. So you did that in a while. I think all of us from maybe you can look at Steve Kordek, Norm Hark and Wayne Neum, you think, what a great bunch of people. Beautiful, beautiful, and I'll just, again, it's a lot and I'm privileged to be able to put them, yeah, part of the high tribute today, tremendous and fantastic work in the industry. Yeah, and of course Harvey was the game designer for Genko, which Kordek actually worked at too. And what were Kordek words for Harvey? Right, at Genko. And of course, Genko, when it was in 1958, they got bought out by Chicago Coin. So that was kind of like a mini-genko history. But they were, they did some amazing arcade games during the 50s too. Are you a big arcade game collector to EM arcade? I like, we've got most of the gang games, the Fortune Teller and the Shrine, Madurama. We haven't had the other one. Jet Pilot, a couple of Jet Pilot. Yeah, I got a Jet Pilot. I'm Modorama's car hard to get. I really love to find one. Man, if anybody out there is a Genko Modorama, please contact me. Don't call Michael. Call me. Now we need one for the PMO museum. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I need one for my PMO museum and my basement. In the other one is Space Age. That's the other one I want to try and find. Yes, I've got pictures of that, but I, yes, yes. That one's really hard to find. You know, same cabinet, the Modorama, the Jet Pilot, in the Space Age, they all use that kind of... That's fine cabinet. Yeah, that same kind of jukebox on leg type cabinet. It's kind of cool. I really think those games are really neat. You know, but you know, all those Genko, do you have any of the Genko baseballs, you know, the High Fly or the Champion baseball or any of that? I'm not a few. I've got a few, the mainly the United and the Williams ones. Right, right. I think we've got two Genko, or maybe one Genko. Okay. Okay. We have, which one, I'm just trying to think of the one, um, starts like it was the United, I've got one of the Genkais. The big one. It would be the really big one is Champion baseball and the one that's smaller, more pinball size-ish is High Fly. Well, I think we've got a Champion, but that hasn't got the animated unit hasn't. No, well, it has, yeah, it doesn't have the animated unit, but it has a little player of the play field. Yes, I've got the Champion, and that's got the side where the ball comes up, and then it's got the big, and it rolls down, and the big bat hits it up. Yeah, it's like a, it's not made on the play field, and it actually hit it over the fence right exactly. Right. Right. Is that yours or is that Allens? Well, it was smaller, I'm not sure whether I saw it, so I'm looking I'm not going to look at whatever it is, it's kind of beginning to me, it's not even anyway. Incredible game, that one's really hard to find, and I think the High Fly was a lot more popular because it's smaller. Yeah, yeah, the Champion baseball is a monster, man, that thing is big. Well, believe it or not, Clyde, that Champion baseball was actually all priored in Australia. Really? It come from a company called Golden West in Melbourne, and that machine was out on location. It's up to recently, Takteh? Oh, my God, no, God, I just want to be back in the, probably back in the late 60s, and then it was put in the storage and I ended up buying it. Oh, I got you. So how have you... Probably probably 80, 87 out by put that machine? So how long have you been actually actively buying machines? Probably 80, five. Wow. So you were ahead of the curb, you were buying stuff before pinball collecting was really a big thing. Well, yes, yes. By look, Clyde started, I remember what it brought me first, too, in the matter of a month. I'm just one of the topic collectors, I just collect everything, and then I started collecting criminal machines, and then I was on a go to try and get as many push-up balls as I can. Within six months, I've got close to 50 machines. But you have to remember, it's not like the states, push-up balls are very hard to come by there. Oh, wait, I'm sorry, push-up? Push-up, man, do you all currently get to manually push the balls out? Oh, all right, manual ball load games, right, yeah, pre-1967. So you don't call them push-up balls? No, I've never heard anybody call them like that. I always call them manual ball load. I've also heard people describe that as spoon loaders, because it's kind of like a big spoon that lifts the ball up, but I've never heard people call them push-up. No, maybe that's a local Australian term. And maybe it is, buddy, it is, because people say you've got any ball push-ups for sale. Oh, okay. Yeah, I wasn't sure what you meant when you said that. The other thing you said a while back that I didn't really catch was, did you say something about snookers? Snooker, snooker. What is that? Snookers, um, gullies. Oh, okay, okay, all right, all right, okay, sorry, that's my bad. You know, they call that here too. Okay, I'm sorry, that was my fault. So yeah, I just, yeah, you know, we got, uh, you know, social differences here, and even though, you know, you know, what I mean, you guys have different terms for things that we do. You know, so I'm just trying to figure it all out. Snooker, it's not very big in the state, because you have a more yad ball and line ball, that's, um, Right, right, that's definitely more popular here, eight ball and nine ball, right? Yeah, for sure. So what other stuff are you now, do you collect any video games? No. No, none at all. But I do have one of those videos, the main, that's got all the video's on there. So I, I had one video game that's got like 300 games on it. Right. But no, I don't collect video games. Okay. And do you repair? No. No, I don't. No, I try and see, well, clear of that claim. Yeah, no, I can't blame you. I try and steer clear of it too. So the, um, your, your pinball master's company, I mean, are you, is there enough in-home repairs that like keep you busy full time there? Yeah, yeah, there's, um, there's a lot of, there's not many people here that can actually repair the electro mechanical machines. Um, a lot of people can repair the non-East, um, and the IDs, but I get a lot of work, a lot of, a lot of, a lot of people with, uh, any mechanical machines, there's probably any two people in Sydney now that can repair, that go out and can repair the electro mechanical, there's not more noise cars. Wow. So do you work through, you get a lot of references from those shops that you were talking about before or, or, uh, wherever is it, just like people see on the, on the web and they call you? Yeah, people have seen me look, um, look, I do, I do repairs as a couple of, uh, high-tales that I got pinball machines in them and, uh, uh, uh, uh, that, that I get in on, on my service car. Um, and sometimes people go in there and they, um, they simply, like, I've got me card in there, so they may have a pinball machine and they give me a ring and so, look, look, look at that machine, it's not working. But, but 90s machines, right there, they're, they're very reliable and, you know, maybe the bridge wrecked the fire or could we just, the wires come off, nothing, nothing major. Um, and, and the electro mechanicals, when I shop them out, and when I, you know, I go right from, they tend to work, I work fantastic and, and, and give very little problems. Right. Okay, cool. All right. Well, uh, I'm going to let you go. Is there, I mean, is there anything else you want to add? Anything we didn't cover? No, just, I made it fantastic. I really, this is, um, this is what I do, Clio. I'm out, you know, to try and spread, yeah. We've heard about pinballs and try and help people who live there. Try, try, try loads and, um, enjoy the game. And, and I think you're doing a fantastic job and, uh, I really appreciate, uh, you put them on your shelf. Oh, well, cool. I appreciate you giving me a ring up and, uh, and, and, and, and, and, in Tarnalus. So the next time you're coming back to the States, it's going to be for Expo again, huh? Well, I might, I might be there. I might, I might go and say, Paisak, um, in a couple of months on. Well, if you go see Paisak, you know, make sure you come up and, uh, see me. I'm only about, I think I'm about a three hour drive from Paisak. Okay. Well, I might come and say it. Okay. That's all right. Well, I won't come and say it. You coming up in the summer or something? Yeah. I want to get a suit of point. Oh. If you go to Cedar Point, you make sure you call me. I'll go with you. You know what? I'm, okay. That's, that's a, 100 percent will be done with Cedar Point. You know, I'm only like two hours from Cedar Point. So, I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there. Yeah. I, the Cedar Point's like, for people that don't know, Cedar Point is like the premier amusement park, especially if you're into roller coasters. And, and the whole United States, it got an amazing collection of roller coasters there that just, you know, or just unbelievable. Uh, that, that place is, you know, like people say, I'm going to Disneyland and I'm going to Disney World. And I'm like, man, you know, those parks, they're, they're all about fluff. You know what I mean? They're all about fluff. If you want real substance, you go to Cedar Point. You know what I mean? So, have you ever been in it? And they've also got a 60, and they're like a bit of a muslin, and they took my, right, right. Where they have like, um, the Rackhole the World Series. They got a, the parallel there in the 1937. Yeah, but they have, and they've also got, um, the Chester Power, the whole Shwashing Gang. Yep, yep, yep. And then they have the, oh, it's fucking, yeah, they're probably, you're watching the horses race around the track. There's a couple of, um, muted sky, fortune telling the shrieks. There's a lot of, um, interesting pieces there. Yeah, and they also have their old time arcade too, where they've got, uh, lecture mechanical gun games, and they've got, uh, lecture mechanical pinballs, mostly 70s EMs. Yeah. You know, like they got fireball and 4 million BC and old Chicago and, man, they got all kinds of stuff there. I really like going there. We, me and Norm, we always go every summer we go there. We take, uh, you know, I've got a, uh, a 13 year old kid and he's got a 15 year old kid. And we always kind of, we always go. It's, it's great fun. I love going. Oh, well, look, I'll, I'll, I'll see you. I'll definitely, we're definitely going, so I'll be fantastic. But are you the top juice day in the front, so in the front row, okay? You mean on, on a roller coaster? Yes, yes. I, I don't, I pretty much get in wherever they tell me. You know, I have no preference. You know, we're, we're, they say, sit. I don't know. It doesn't go on anything. Alan Thai, he said, good enough to get. Oh, is he going to come with you in the summer? Yes, he'll be, he'll be with me. That's fine. You know, I mean, some of the roller coasters are a bit, um, you know, they're a bit daunting. I mean, uh, they get that one that's, I, it's like the highest one in the world. Oh my god. I mean, it's, it's, what is it? Zero, zero, zero to 120 miles and 40, two, four seconds. Oh, yeah, the dragster. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I, uh, my, I was fantastic. Yeah. It's all you like that one, huh? Oh, yeah. I, I, I go on everything. Yeah. Ha. Good for you, man. All right. We've got to do the drags that together. Yeah. Will you make sure that you call me when you're in town? I definitely, I'll really look forward to seeing you. All right, Pico. All right. You think it, I want to, I want to interview you. You're going to be in the next book anyway. So I want to, I'll told you. Light over that. What I want from you for the next book. So I, eight. All right, Michael. For the listeners, I'm Joshua Clay, who I have a special section in the next book, which I, the car. We'll show them, and I can already bet it. Great. All right, man. Okay. Hey, thanks for calling, and I'll, and I'll talk to you soon. Might I look forward to a client? Thank you very much. All right. Take care. Bye. Say it, buddy. Bye-bye. All right. That was, uh, Michael Shalou, the author of the three books, the pinball, compendium series, 1930s and 1960s. That's volume one. And then 1970s and 1981. That's volume two. And then 1982 to 2005. That's volume three. And he soon to have, and he was just telling us about it. He's going to have a new one out from, um, that's additional pictures that he got from Alvin Gottlieb and some other people. So it looks like he's going to have a fourth, fourth volume coming out. Again, I'd like to thank Michael Shalou for talking us tonight on Topcast. And I'll see you all later.