hello my name is jamie virtual and you are listening to and or watching our podcast called wormhole pinball presents and today i am very excited to be joined by my co-host donovan wade thank you very much and a very very special guest ian jacoby of nudge magazine hi guys thanks for having me welcome to the wormhole virtually ian uh i almost said his name wrong we just did it before and i had a panic attack right in the when i click start amateur i'm an amateur you have you have not been to houston or the wormhole or houston arcade expo yet have you no and i want to go so bad it's just you know it just hasn't lined up with schedule wise but um i dude i know everything i hear is like that would be our scene for sure like you guys like to you guys like to have fun down there for sure. We like to party. We like to party. We like to play pinball. Yeah, we like to have a lot of fun, but I mean we have a lot of great players here too on the competitive scene. I think it's a really good balance of competitive pinball and having a lot of fun. Yeah, nobody takes it too seriously. A lot of people don't take it too seriously. Some people take it seriously, but it's cool if you take it seriously. It's also cool if you don't take it seriously. Yeah. totally so my i'm a little my i'm a little off because this is not my normal mic so bear with me everyone today if i sound a little different it's because i think you sound right it's not my mic and my whole process gets derailed but we're gonna get back all right so as always these interviews are very informal and so with the two of us we'll just go back and forth i'll start us off if you're okay how did nudge begin nudge was born out of covid uh i was a pinball player in really i got serious about it in when i moved to minneapolis because i worked as a bouncer for a while and on my walk home from doing that uh there was a spot called tilt or lit uh is what it's called now, but I would go there and just like blow off steam. And that was when I was like, Oh, like pinball, you know, it's the same thing that everyone says, right? Like pinball is more than just kind of like flipping at it. There are things to do in it. Um, and so I got excited about it. And then when COVID hit a couple of years later, uh, I couldn't play at all. Like I, so I had PlayStation pinball, you know, I, I don't, I didn't have one in my house at the time. um so i had like playstation pinball and i wanted an outlet for all the pinball stuff that i was still thinking about um and so i just we i was on my way to move to detroit at the time um with my significant other and that's just was what i did to fill my free time i wrote a bunch of like articles that people found a little annoying and sort of funny and that's kind of how nudge started So what was your like original vision for the magazine, like some non-negotiables that this magazine has to have this or I'm not going to do it? Yeah, that's great. Well, I was talking to myself, so that was a really easy conversation to have. Sometimes. So the Nudge Aesthetic, the best way for me to put it is I think it's a skateboarding magazine from the 90s, except for it's about pinball. you know um i loved that era like i'm a big guy i'm 6'4 275 right now and this is the lightest i've been in a while uh and so i was never a skateboarder because it was like that was gonna mess me up so bad but i love skate culture and like i thought if i could love skate culture and not know shit about it like someone could do that for pinball it's like pinball is actually easier to get into than skateboarding because you can see how cool it is there's like movie themes that are right there that you're already familiar with and like it just seemed like arcade culture to me in general and skateboarding cultures seemed similar like they're dirty but I like that and it's like full of kids with like nothing good to do you know nothing good going on so like they're getting into trouble and go to the arcades and stuff and um so that was the aesthetic I wanted like photography wise we shoot all film um you know that's that's really important to us it's actually funny it's become less important to me but more important to my designer so i sometimes i'm like hey could we do this digitally he's like absolutely not um so that was a stupid thing that i said we had to do that we definitely still do um but otherwise you just like see it in the layouts and the humor and like i don't take stuff too serious like in my own life so uh even though i love pinball i take it really seriously like i think i think when people don't understand pinball is when they don't get how important it is in our lives because like dude for me pinball was like my release you know like oh yeah my job sucks or whatever like i you know so i would go to i would go play pinball is like that was my and i just asked this question for an article that we did recently and like why do you even play pinball and overwhelmingly the word that came back was escape like people are like i escape into pinball and i'm like hell yeah that's so cool like and so that that like we take it and we take it seriously but we don't take ourselves seriously you know like that's the vibe oh that's awesome and you're right it is an escape again and it's a cult we call it a cult yeah because it's really become a cult and when we go out to dinner with my wife we have to limit our pinball talk to like 15 minutes or i'm just i see it glancing and i'm like i'm gonna lose this go to pinball come on uh it happens i know i'm sure it does but i'm gonna to make sure it doesn't happen i'm already doing a pocket that's good for you yeah so i i gotta at least uh pay attention how about that and not bombard her with pinball talk no life is about balance too it is it is it is and she's been so sweet god bless you jenny uh are there any other magazines or publications that kind of you touched on the skater but any in particular that you could mention that kind of does the layout design the writing style yeah i mean big brother for sure and those are hard to find like good luck finding them but there's a really great documentary actually about Big Brother magazine I think it's on Hulu but that definitely that style of humor there's some boy I'm blanking on the name now but there's a really great super mean music magazine in the 2000s but they would write like you know all these bands suck and then they would just like break it down and i always thought that was funny like in nudge one we have an article that is called why your favorite music pin sucks you know and would i write that article now like now it would be harder for me to do that honestly but when i was starting out it was like i don't know that's kind of funny i think to like rip on everyone's like if you if you can take it and like you'll dish it to everyone i feel like we're just having a good time then um but yeah so just that kind of that sneering tone of Big Brother was a huge touchdown for us, for sure. Those things can be fun. I know I remember here locally, I used to have a guy that would do, you know, why your football team sucks. So who are some, you know, we know you, but who are the other people that are behind the scenes at Nudge? And I know sometimes you reach out, you know, and ask for submissions. Can anyone submit ideas or photography? Absolutely. Yes. To either one. I'm happy to work with people, even if it's your first time writing something. I think sometimes those are the most unique articles we get because someone feels compelled to write it. So, yes, absolutely. But we I'm so lucky at this point. It's like we have a network of photographers and artists like illustrators and comic artists and designers just like from all over but I guess Brian Moen, B. Moen is the designer like if you've ever held a physical copy of Nudge, yeah word that's cool yeah and I know you guys do but just maybe your listening audience isn't as it's okay I have, look I'm like a show I have mine like here, like right next to my back. That's piss poor marketing on my behalf. I need a better picture. What can you do? Put it back in the back? I was just going to hold it up like this. Like they do it like Regis and Kelly or whatever. I do want that photo from you guys for sure. Well, I'll do it. That was just, I need like a producer. Yeah. So anyway, the guy who designs the magazine, I have a lot of input into that. but the guy who I just like trust implicitly is named Brian Moen. We work together. It's funny. We were in bands together. We were in a band for a long time called Larks, which is kind of how we started to know each other. And then after that now have done, he's a great graphic designer and I like to write and take pictures. So natural pairing there. And then as far, yeah. And then as far as like contributors, Eric Frick, who publishes under the name Rick Brewster, It's funny, like, I think it's an open secret, so it doesn't really matter. Oh, you just outed him. Yeah, I did. And it's good because he always writes the articles that get us in the most trouble. Like, the ones where I always have blowback that I have to respond to are always from him because it's always, like, IFPA stuff or about whoppers or things that I don't really understand too much. And then Gina Kolechia is, like, an amazing photographer and writer. She's done a lot of, like, features for us, too, but I just think her photography is amazing. We've had – you guys know Gene Wong from San Francisco, also a really great photographer. Ida Kruitzer from New York. Like, we literally just, like – I could go on and on and on. We have so many great people. Oh, that's awesome. And it's good to give them a shout-out because they're busting their ass and they're doing good stuff. Oh, and they're not – they're getting paid basically nothing. Not quite nothing, but they're doing it for the love of the game. Yeah. And it's so cool how many artistic people are just drawn to pinball. Like, we had... Oh, wow. Why am I blanking on her name? She's like, let me just grab it. Sorry, I did this on purpose. No, I really didn't. I just have stoner memory. Like, that's the problem here. like a real editor would be able to give it to you oh yeah duh elizabeth weinberg um who dude she's a so in pinball she's like a tournament director at waltz in la and in real life she is one of the most in-demand portrait photographers in the world like she shoots for like vogue and the la times and like dude she did the in nudge three the photo shoot in there that's like the interview between her and Tyler White another friend of mine who's a tournament director out there um we were just like wouldn't it be cool if you guys interviewed each other and took each other's pictures and like dude she obviously didn't take her quote to do that photography she basically did it for us because she likes us it's like what zine do you know like pinball or otherwise that can get a photographer like that it's like she did it because of pinball you know because she really messes with pinball. Again, the cult. We keep going back to the cult of pinball. Exactly, yeah. What article did you get in? Do you feel got the biggest public reaction or interaction from so far? Probably the Twippy controversy, I guess. People like that one. They said it was like actual journalism, which if that's true, it's more of a – You mean your Twippy timeline? Yeah. Yeah, that was good, by the way. That was good. Yeah, thanks. It was good. If that's the standard for what journalism now, that's more a critique of, like, the state of journalism than it is. No, yeah. But it was a hot topic, and I get it. We had Colin on. Yeah. I think he did a great job explaining it, too. So, I mean. My thing was just, like, dude, these are all people. Like, whether you agree with what they're saying or not, like, just know, like, Colin is a guy that's cool that just does this because he loves pinball. Yeah. He's not getting paid like I'm not getting paid. Exactly. Yeah, totally. Totally. And also, I wanted to recognize, like, some of the creators that kind of felt slighted because they don't get recognized ever. Like, as you can be like, oh, Twippies, it's the Twippies. It doesn't matter. It's like, well, it does matter, actually, to some people. Just like we say, oh, pinball shouldn't matter that much or should. It's like, who are you to say? Whatever. Right. I wanted a guy's darn Twippy. I wanted one. I told Colin off-land, I really wanted one. We were never going to win one. I think I've won all the stuff we're going to. We won the pinball awards, whatever that was, and then this is the degenerate awards Oh that cool though That the one you really care about most degenerate publications look at you very nice we won we won the canada pinball oh you did yeah we did oh man well congratulations that's thank you i don't know what happened there has he sent you a plaque or anything we're gonna get no no no we got a shout out and a guy who didn't know who the hell we was announced our name what was that guy's name well his name you Whatever. I don't know. That's hilarious. Watch this. Look at that. It lights up. Color? No, no color. Sorry. That is... I'm just kidding. Shout out Pinball Degenerates on Facebook. There you go, Pinball Degenerates. You mentioned in your non-negotiables the love for photography. Where did this passion come from? Is this something that you've always been involved in? um photography no definitely not uh it's a more recent it's not recent i guess well dude that short answer is aesthetics yes like aesthetics are important to me and so in that way uh i knew i had to control my aesthetics like i wasn't going to use stock photography um because dude people can tell when you fake it like it sucks like i didn't want to do something that felt cheesy or like halfway, I want to do it all the way. So like, even though I'm not the best photographer, I know I taught myself how, and at first I was just using literally a disposable camera. Um, so it's like, you don't even know, like what you see in the viewfinder is not what's even on the lens. Right. Uh, so it's like, I was just doing that for a bit. And then, uh, my exes, you know at the time my girlfriend's dad was like hey i got this canon rebel pro do you want and like a couple lenses like you should just use this and i started doing that and yeah you learn you learn pretty fast especially when you have to pay money for film rolls you're just like i don't want to waste anything um so yeah that that that's it like it's not a good like oh i was always in love with taking nature photography it's just like dude pinball machines and are so photographable like they have their own light sources like it looks so dramatic and good like you can be a knucklehead just go out there with a literally go out there with a camera uh doesn't even have to be that good a one and just like start shooting and you're gonna like what you come back with for sure yeah yeah that's what i kind of want to ask you next is you know why do you think pinball and photography go so well together. It's beautiful. Yeah, man. And like the art that goes into pinball, I love. So another contributor of ours who I definitely have to shout out, Ryan Tanner Petsch, who also does homebrew machines. He did Garbage Land or Trash Land. Just a big homebrew guy. Really inventive, beautiful stuff. Check out his Instagram. but like you see how much art is in it from just like actual play field art to how the lights work to the music that goes into it is like that's what I mean when I take say I take it seriously I do think a pinball machine is an expression of art just as much as like a book or a movie is like it's and it's funny to see how they kind of get translated like movie wise right or whatever the original ip is like when it gets translated through pinball like how that story manifests that just really interests me so we need to do a better job photographing our some of the machines that are coming right like coming soon what kind of tips should we do like nap does the three pictures or what kind of pictures do you think would be best for us like coming soon to the wormhole yeah like what are some tips for common mistakes that pinball photographers make i love that um i think if there's a really notable mech in it that photographs well and even if it's funny um i'm thinking right now about and this just popped into my head but like the frankenstein uh i took a really great just direct flash like picture of so if there's a mech or something notable i always look for that um you want to find interesting angles so like people are so obsessed with just like how do i get the backbox and the play field in this it's like that's never gonna look good you gotta like make some decisions so um oh okay if you if you come down i mean you can do that too like that's fine like and i think that should be like if you guys are showing a new game right you probably want almost like a stock photography like three quarters turned this is the game like this is the cab art this is whatever the back glass how it looks that's cool but i just mean like the front facing just like you're showing kind of it looks like a dumb light box then like get in low like get in low you get you guys can take the glass off but like even if you can't like get in low to the glass kind of show that like it's about the ambience as much as it is about anything else and i would say just like get specific like be don't just be bland with it like if it's a mech then that if it's like one of my favorite things to do is just look at pinball art and like shoot the one you know the one little piece of art or whatever it is that i find compelling or funny or interesting um yeah sorry yeah all these are long answers but uh it goes what i like talking about what i like talking about you know you're doing good man well to kind of riff off that for a second like what are some machines that you think have exceptional art that you really enjoy and what are some ones that are kind of like like an eyesore you're making a word no that's fine you can't use clip air yeah uh well yeah barbe barbecue comes to mind is like the easy one to shit on but there there are others for sure i think in general what i like is diversity in art not like in a political way but in a like how shit looks way like i don't want every and zombie yeti would tell you the same thing i think zombie yeti's cool i don't want every pin to look like zombie yeti did it um and that's what's awesome it's like i think stern's going in that direction i love how john wick looks i know that's a polarizing game right now i think randy martinez killed it i think the color scheme is really interesting to me that like, I love that it's kind of black and purple and like has that neon cityscape in it. Like to me, that is one right away. Like I haven't obviously shot it, any of that stuff, but I actually was kind of drawn to it. Um, it looks cool. I mean, look, but how it's today is Wednesday of Stern launch week, the eighth. So we haven't really seen shit yet. So I don't know how anyone can have an opinion until they've seen it and flipped it. But, you know. Definitely. But, like, art-wise, we can tell, right? Yeah, we can tell. It looks pretty cool. Yeah, I think it looks dope. Yeah. And then, like, historically-wise, I mean, my favorite bottom third of a play field is the shadow. I think it's so vibey. Like, even the inserts for, like, the modes, like, having it be that green. It's, like, green and, like, kind of a cream, almost, like, white look. and there's all that sort of like art deco vibe to that bottom third with that really cool taxi cab between the flippers. Yeah, but Alec Baldwin up top. Oh, I love it. Dude. Dude. I love it. Look at that. That's Peacock, Long Island. I'm telling you, I love Mass Peacock, Long Island. That's my hometown. Well, then that's your boy, dog. We claim the Baldwin, but Jiminy Christmas. I mean, I like the alternate translate with the guy with the face. That's a better one. The Oric translate. I actually like the original one. I think what we wrote about it was we said Alec Bedroom's bedroom eyes if your bedroom contained a stone cold psychopath. That's funny. How about an American psychopian? Oh yeah, totally. But he has that, I don't know, I dig it. I'm a stand for that game. if you could do uh an interview with anyone at bimball and um but dead or alive who would it be well dead it would be Python Anghelo um and alive well i have an idea and i can like say it here i don't think i've said it anywhere publicly but one thing that i really want to do is get the Richie brothers together on a gun range and we'll just like have the most swear words in a pinball interview like of all time that's that's my dream so um you need to make that happen I think it would be fun don't you think like Mark Ritchie Steve Ritchie like those are some salty bastards like that would be so fun I think do you uh do you have any uh pinball hot takes or unpopular opinions that you'd be willing to share. I love that your questions are always just like, how can I get him in trouble? Here's what he did. I'm going to tell you. Here's what happened, right? We do a script, and he filled it with tough questions. I love it. And he's going to ask these tough questions. I put them right on him. No, I love it. 80% of the script, I gave it to him. I told you. The opinions of Jamie Birchall and Donovan Wade do not necessarily reflect those of the wormhole. so yeah all right go ahead ian i'm sorry no it's great that you're like go ahead just like get yourself in trouble let me think um hmm i'm trying to think like some knee-jerk stuff that i a lot of my opinions are pretty dude maybe i'm a sheep i don't know no let me think i mean as far as games i like that's never going to be controversial i'm trying to think about games i don't like, that I really don't like. I'll give you mine. Yeah, give us yours. I am an American pinball fanboy. I love that. He is. I love all their games. Absolutely. I mean... He loves them. Oktoberfest is my favorite game. Dude, Joe C. from Pinball Degenerates just publicly said that he actually thinks that barbecue is a good game berries barrio's barbecue is a he said it was a fun shooter he said he played it for an hour we have people that came back from tbf and they said they liked it yeah some people i kind of liked it well there you dude this is the this is the dirty like that me and tim both went through and we met david and uh anyway okay here's here's a here's an opinion that people won't like i think metallica is really fucking mid like i don't like it that much um yeah i could see that i think a while to like metallica and like i think the artwork is lame looking it looks i get that it's like their guy and stuff but um i i i think it kind of looks like a it's like eighth grade like notebook drawings um there you go did you get what you want it you got him not metallica i was like what can i do that'll like give him a good sound but so but that is that he's gonna he breaks everything up you know who he breaks all of our little tidbits up and anything you say gets back out in a real canon will be used against me on instagram no i love it it's cool like i yeah i just i don't it's i i stand by that i don't like to play in Metallica that much. So sorry. There you go. How did No Days Off come about? Nice. I love that. Well, it started actually because I'm a basketball player and when I would shoot free throws, it was like my annoying thing on Snapchat to like, I would just like shoot a free throw, make it and then say No Days Off, which comes from famously Bill Belichick during a Super Bowl parade, tried to get the crowd to chant no days off and no one wanted to do it. Everyone's like, no, like take the day off. You won the Super Bowl, you psychopath. And so I thought I always thought that was really funny. Like and so tone deaf, like that Bill Belichick thought like everyone would want to chant no days off. So that's how it started. And then for me, it's like I love pinball so much. It is it's kind of like tongue in cheek, right? Because it is not a job at all. But you're just like, no days off. Like, I want to play every day. Like, you know, no days off. I love it. You should make a T-shirt. You know, you know how I got into all this video work? How? So when I first started playing pinball, you know, you're not that good. So if you get your name on the board, you know, you put your name in it. I was pretty impressed. So I started taking pictures of them. I posted them on my stories. And it got to the point where people were just like Oh jeez another you know Picture of a high score or whatever so I was like alright I'll show you guys so I started making like Little videos to go along So That's cool And the rest is history I found him he's this little wet dog And chain me to a laptop Make some videos The greatest love story ever told So we really you know we want to talk about some of the things in the magazine and online. So we really liked the recent shots from MGC It looked so fun So how would you know none of us have been there before How would you sell us on attending MGC 2025 Yeah Um it so fun because it not just pinball. Um, it's everything. I mean, the pinball component is really strong. They run two or three really fun tournaments there with good players uh rachel ristow runs it who i'm sure y'all are familiar with yeah we had her on the podcast oh yeah okay of course i should know that um but yeah so there's that going on but then at the same time there's like literal wrestling like professional wrestling happening mixed with like the coolest cosplay you've ever seen mixed with like literally they have land parties going like the whole time with like just like you can play old school land like doom with people and like so it's just this crazy mix of like everything you could ever want and it takes up three stories of the convention center in downtown milwaukee and just like takes over it's like all nerds like all nerds in wisconsin and the surrounding states like you know uh at the at this spot and it's just it's so fun yeah the the pictures are always great because there are people dressed up like playing arcade games like i'm just standing alongside sweaty mega man while he's like doing his weird little you know on tapper or whatever he's playing but uh yeah it's it's a party and it's really fun and it's relatively cheap like compared to going to kind of other big cities i i would say it's kind of a value play anytime you're hanging out in the midwest uh and you can fly into chicago it's not that long overdrive totally look no if you're if you're coming you're hitting up chicago as well absolutely yep you know cal had some some pretty good stories he was telling us about mgc oh man and the if you guys come and we're like a vendor like if you brought a game or two and just like hung out like the vendor party on saturday night is ridiculous it was so fun um because basically on saturday night because it's a crazy weekend they had 30 000 people over 30 000 people i think uh over the course like four days um so it's crazy but so on saturday night like after they've had their biggest day you know they're still open sunday but that's when they're kind of packing stuff up um they have this vendor party and it starts with boy i'm gonna forget the man's name but who this guy i gotta give him his flowers but whoever started mgc is just like a dude who's my age and a huge nerd obviously and he gives a speech and and it was like the most weirdly moving like it starts and he's just listing off all the things that went wrong and you're like okay this kind of sucks he's just like we almost didn't do this for this reason this reason like i haven't wanted to do this thing for three years but then by the end he's like but we did it we're gonna make money and we're gonna be back next year and he's like giving this like braveheart speech and then he's just like and then they turn all the games on and everyone's just like going nuts so uh did he ask you to drink some kool-aid shoes it felt it felt awesome and i really actually i wasn't supposed to be there but uh they i kind of snuck in with you know i was kind of scrolling through some of your instagram stuff the other day and i know you did a recap on your hard body shoot really cool yeah thanks shoots that you've done before that really stick out as memorable and why that one for sure uh i love the art direction on that so we just that was a funny mix of a lot of things uh my friend had a hard body obviously you've seen the back glass to that the original back glass it is ridiculous uh very evocative though and like fun to play with right and i think it's so funny because i think there's an uncharitable view of that photo shoot where you can be like oh these guys are like sexist or it's objectifying or whatever what's really funny to me is the people who are the most positive about that shoot are like women like who really dig it and what i think and hey this is probably the thing you pull that'll definitely get me into trouble but i think maybe what pinball manufacturers don't get about kind of like that stuff is that like women want to have fun and they want to like pinball too it's like when you call them like fuddy duddies and treat shit like it's 1970 you know it's like like everyone who was at that shoot was like having fun and got to like have their say and like we were just making fun content you know so it was like i i just wish that there was a little more um like i think if people kind of listened for like input and like internalized it they'd actually be able to get away with stuff that they couldn't otherwise right because like it is a fun shoot and it's sexy and it's funny and it like references the original but like it's still punk enough and we're like doing our own thing so that is definitely one that that stuck out as a success to me i i look forward to doing some more of those we have i have a torpedo alley like sitting right here and that's obviously ripe um i think the back glass there's a there's a legend about it that so there's three women and they're all wearing like stretch pants and then there's a guy who i think originally was also wearing stretch pants and then it looked a little too it was the 1980s wasn't ready for how that looked and so they airbrushed it into different pants and so i want to go back and give that guy the like big juicy butt he deserves you know to have and and and let him wear those stretch pants so that's that's one that i'm looking forward to in the future uh in your recent article with dalton eli uh you mentioned that nearly half of the top 20 players competitive pinball players in the world are 25 years old or younger what can we attribute to this explosion of pinball to be i think specifically with those guys they had access to pinball well no i don't know dude i don't have a clean answer for this i'm really interested actually i i mean the the trite thing to say is that they're rebelling against this like screen culture and stuff like that i don't know if that's true but i do know that pinball is a hard game and it takes good reflexes and it takes and it takes young eyes and these guys have the time to do it you know it's like think about yourself when you were 19 years old like actually pinball would have been one of the more constructive things i could have been doing with my time um in comparison to what I was doing um so I think their nerves and their reflexes are kicking our heinies yeah well you know and like they understand they can pick up rule sets quick you know like I think that's like a young like elastic mind so uh in terms of like elite play I just think it makes sense that a lot of young people are up on top and in general I do think that maybe not as young as 25 but I would say people under 40 like are flocking to arcades because it's a place to hang out like we miss those like yeah we're seeing that at the wormhole and we're totally seeing that you know demographic if you will yeah demographic i've got my own theory on this i think go ahead i kind of think you know i think back to when i was you know teenager or whatnot and you really obsess over things back then like word it is totally you mentioned skateboarding i was totally in skateboarding that's all i did all i thought about i just read the magazines i was out on my board whenever i could be and i think these kids are the same way you know that they find something they've got the time you know and they can latch on to it and they just kind of obsess over it whereas you know we got jobs we got to do this we got to do that we got families and whatnot but these kids have nothing Good for them. Good for them. Good for studying. No, I feel you, though. That is something. It's like, dude, you listen to that album over and over and over again. That's true. You know, I must have listened to 10 100,000 times, and it would have been better if I went to the arcade and worked on my pinball skills or something. So another article that I was reading is the R game is too easy, and I listened to the Buffalo talk about that on their podcast. I just want to talk a little bit about that article. I mean, you mentioned how some of these games, these modern games, they are just really long. I mean, we saw, you know, at TPF, we did the Wizards and the Classics tournament, and a lot of people from here didn't want to play in Wizards because it just takes too long. Like, the games are just, they just go on and on and on. I mean, you had mentioned some solutions in the article. Is there any, you know, thing that you would suggest for this? Yeah, well, I mean, right, a lot of people pointed to District 82 and saying how hard they set up their games. I don't think that's necessarily the answer, because then it's just like you're not getting to the stuff that you're supposed to get to in the game. Like, that's its own sort of weird thing. So I think that in general, pinball, we're seeing a diversity of how we build games and how they play. Like, I think you guys know, like, I think Labyrinth plays different than a Stern, like, in a cool way. And that's really good for both companies. And I know, you know, not to be like, oh, insider rumors, but I've talked to some designers at Stern. And I know that that's going to be a style that they explore going forward. That's not something that they're shying away from is like even early 2000s, kind of harder era sterns. And so maybe that's the way forward is that there are sort of competition machines that we think about them as like these are the ones that are usually designated in competitions. They're shorter players, either because they're kind of random, like in classics, or they're set up hard with tight shots. Yeah, I 1,000% agree with you. Maybe Jurassic Park is not a good competitive game. Exactly, yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that because people love putting quarters in Jurassic Park. But maybe Labyrinth, here's a good example. Labyrinth can be a long player, and they made it very, very, very, very difficult. and it's upsetting me because it's so difficult now. Oh. Because the ball saves. Everything is so hard, and they put everything off, and now I just put four games on it, and I only had one good score. Yeah, yeah. Sounds like maybe you're angry with yourself. They're ruining this game that I love. The thing, we have trouble with it, but we get somebody like Jack or Wesley and people in here, and they'll play it for 15, 20 minutes. no problem oh yeah well but that's yeah that's a very it's interesting you're right to think that's a good intellectual exercise though is what is the threshold on which a game is like where's the line where's the median line that we want to draw it because obviously a competitive pinball player is always going to be like on a different level you know they're playing every week they're playing with good competition they're kind of just psychopaths in general um yeah you don't need those people like necessarily driving the bus but at the same time dude that's your core demo like the people who are going to be pinball buyers in the future are the 30 year old competitive players right now because they're like getting that taste they don't have the money yet but they're like getting that taste i'm in that i'm in that group i just want to make sure i don't I bust their butt, right, or butt. I bust them and I go, hey, thanks for the 20 minutes on Labyrinth. I appreciate that. But they know that I'm joking, right? I don't want to do that, you know, make them feel bad. Well, we got some people that are. But some people will make them feel bad, but I don't want to make them feel bad. No, whatever. I mean, dude, you know, you hate us. I'm doing it in jest. I was going to say you hate us because you ain't us, you know. I'm 2,500 in the world, man. uh rapid fire this is donovan's brain child okay and so bear with us because it's starting to really we really like it so i'm gonna let him take the first question rapid fire you you've seen how it works it's not real okay all right and he's gonna start off with a doozy right off the bat question one multi-morphic more video game or pinball machine my answer changed at mgc pinball machine most iconic minnesota musician bob dylan prince or husker do i gotta say prince but only because i'm afraid of everyone uh if i said anything else yeah those minnesota prince fans canceled uh better aquatic game jaws or fishtails i'm gonna say jaws i know that's corny but dude fishtails is always hard for me that thing is so close to you that if you're not dialed in you know i'm not you got it most memorable role in fargo william h macy as jerry or steve beshamy as carl steve beshamy yeah i concur what theme would you not want home pin to get a hold of uh samurai champ blue it's an anime i love that's never gonna be made anyway but see that a cop body cop okay you i give you i give you one uh what do i star wars i I mean that would suck Yeah you don home fin star wars yikes and that could happen who knows better mustache robert sharp or brewer hall of fame raleigh fingers robin youn uh terrible wispy mustache uh raleigh fingers absolutely absolutely it's more stylized exactly maybe the amount of wax that he must have put in that thing to make That's curveball spin, too? Yeah, the guy at my gym that has a Salvador dolly curled up. Really? Yeah. Good for him, dude. That's a hell of a look to rock at the gym. That's wild. I bet you he's a badass. Is he a badass? Not so much. I think I already know your answer on this one. Dirty Donnie's art on pinball machines, yay or nay? Nay. Let's get some confirmation here. Oh, no. I mean, damn, dude. Dirty Donnie you seem like a cool dude And I love you but No I don't want your art I'm sorry That's okay you don't have to apologize Bubble hockey or foosball Foosball alright sorry Best Pool themed game there's a lot of Pool games which one do you like 8 ball deluxe Who would win a Arm wrestling match He wrote this one okay Jersey Jacks, Eric Minier, or Wormholes Donovan? Wormholes Donovan. Pick that, Eric. He's got that dad strength, though. I don't know. That dad strength. Don't back off it now. Yeah, you already said it. I thought you were alpha when I answered that question. Now I'm like, I don't know. He's already cutting down on his mind. Cheese curds. What are they best on? them they're best by themselves by themselves yeah uh headphones in competition yes or no oh man yes i'm a huge proponent of it what are you listening to we have nudge mixes so i'm going to promote those for sure they're awesome they're full of indie rock and punk and where do you get it where can you download this uh uh if you go to our website it's like the you you'll find it right there. Otherwise, search Nudge Magazine on Spotify. It'll come up right away. I think on the first one, which is the one I most promote, there's like, I don't know, 55 people listening to it now. Go pump those numbers. That's always so interesting to find what people listen to. Erin, she listens to Norwegian death metal. Word, yeah. I never would have gotten that. I'd like to hear somebody who listens to something nice and airy, like a Bell and Sebastian or something like that. So I brought my headphones today. I'm going to listen to the Yankee game. But I'm going to try to listen to the Yankee Astros game. I like it. Dude, I just think that element of it, for whatever reason, I was new to wearing headphones, and it literally felt like putting on training wheels on a bike. I was like, this is so much easier. Why can I focus so much better? So I'm always better if I'm talking to people. If something else is kind of going on, it just helps me focus. I don't know. Yeah. We have a lot of smack talkers here, so sometimes that helps. It does help because we got to, especially with me, they like to give me a lot of. I give you a. And maybe if I put the headphones in, it would be like I would put them in and go. And then I start wearing gloves and a headlamp and then pin shades. And I think I'll be set. And I think that we had fingerless, fingerless gloves. I had a league, and Tim was in my group one time, and the whole night he's in my ear. Oh, I know. You don't want that. All right, that was funny, and thank you so much. I appreciate your time. Where can people subscribe, find Nudge Magazine, all that great stuff? Yeah, if you go to nudgepinball.com or Nudge Magazine on Instagram, or Facebook. Those are the best places to find us. We got a new issue coming out in June. We still have physical copies of issue three and issue... I think we have a few of issue two left, but you'd have to really hurry on that, down to maybe double digits on that. Oh, man, that's awesome. That's it. Thanks so much. Like I said, I'm a fan of y'all. I had to strong arm my way on this thing because I was I was such a fan of how this is going. You guys are putting out great interviews and super fun vibes. I appreciate it. We're really having a lot of fun here in Houston. Give us our flowers. Here we go. No, I'm just saying we've got a good thing going in Houston. We're not Seattle or Portland or Phoenix yet. Phoenix is kicking some ass here from our boy Kale. Yeah, for sure. But we need to have you come here to Houston. That would be really cool. And how you could really start one day is to come to the Houston Arcade Expo. I think that that would be a really good thing. Next year, let's make it happen. Yeah, make it happen. Come to the Houston Arcade Expo in 2025 and come to the Wormhole and let's kick some ass. Yeah, let's. And just have some fun. I'm going to take pictures of all of it for sure. Yeah, absolutely. That would be really, really cool. What a pleasure. Keep up the good work, sir. Thank you so much, Ian. Thank you. Bye, Ian. Bye. That was so much fun, and I'm sorry. Big game was off the whole time. Oh, idiot. I need a producer. Phil looks kind of dim. Yeah. So how did you initially get in touch with Ian? As I said before, you know, the first time I saw Nudge was at Travis and Clint's house. They had it on their coffee table, and I thought it was really cool. Like I said, I love the aesthetic. We started following him on Instagram. We started our Instagram stuff. Love his posts, love No Days Off, love all that stuff. There's something about holding a magazine, isn't there? There is. There really is. I think I wanted to get into that. Why is this? I will never be a person who can read a book on Kindle or something. I got to have it. Same with a magazine. And all these bookstores are closing, but I go to the one in River Oaks, and it's always packed on the weekend. I think there's a lot of people that still really love physical media. Do you have any magazines, subscriptions of the kid? Thrasher. Did you? Uh-huh. And Transworld. You know what I had? Sports Illustrated for kids. You probably didn't have that when you were... No, no, no. My dad got me a Mad Magazine. Mad Magazine? When I was a kid. Okay. And I had... Oh, my God. I probably had Mad Magazine for five to six years. I was in college when I finally was like, I got to stop. What about Cracked? Did you read Cracked, too? I didn't really read Cracked. But Mad... Oh, man. Mad was fun, too. I was a spy. Oh, I loved Mad Magazine. All right. Sorry. How many times did you re-watch the episode with Rachel and Dale from Electric Packet? Re-watch? I never watched it. I listened to it. How many times did you re-watch it? I listened to it probably two or three times. Did you? Yeah. Yeah. So we need to do something with them at least once a quarter. Absolutely. So I don't know how that's going to look. Yeah, we got to figure something out. Give us some ideas, people. What do you want to hear? um like a round table or something but i don't want to talk just like gun or no gun on wick or crap or any of that you know that's just i play people do that there's other people that all right so we'll figure something out uh john wick coming eureka heights well it's so it's there do you know what's don't happen to it the prof issue they had a trough issue. Oh, really? Yeah. I guess it's a well-known issue with CGC. No, not John Wick. You're talking about Pulp Fiction. I was like, wow! Two thanks. There's a Pulp Fiction at Eureka Heights. The trough did not work. They re-sent the trough. It was supposed to be in league tonight. They were doing it on boxing yesterday, but Chicago Gaming quickly sent the trough, So we'll have that up for this Friday's 3X at Eureka. So there will be. Now, John Wick is coming to Eureka Heights. Already on order. Should be here in a few weeks. So Eureka Heights is doing some really good things. We've got a league tonight. Let's give a shout-out to the league leaders, if you do not mind. After three weeks, Lee Baslik, Miette Tronet, Jack Revenue, Travis Hanna, and Wesley Johnson round out those top fives. Great players. So we did ask Ian who he wanted to interview. My question to you, sir, who's your holy grail? Oh, geez. You know, I've really been lucky. I've met a couple of the people that I really enjoy following in pinball. You know, Nick was here a couple of weeks ago. So who's next? Who's your next fanboy? I thought this was a layup for you. We were texting about this last night, and I'm a big fan of Jeff Teolis. I like his podcast. I like his opinion. We already had Teolis on. I know you did, but you're asking me who I was. So you want to have Teolis on again, and you just do the interview? No, no, no, no, no. You just, you know, you asked me who I was. Oh, no. No, no worries. I thought you would have said Jack Danger. Jack Danger. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. That's who I thought you were. Absolutely. Okay. Mine's Jason Sudeikis. Oh, yeah. Because he's a pinballer, man. I got to talk to Jason Sudeikis on Zoom and then get him to the Wormhole. He would do it. Well, listeners, watchers, viewers, email us at WormholePinball at pinball.com. I think I know someone who knows his sister. So maybe. Such a New Yorker. I think. If you don't live up there, you just don't get there. He's from like Kansas or something. Yeah, he is. He's from Kansas. Yeah. I know someone who knows someone. Did you happen to read the Texas Monthly article written by Tim and Christine and the Wormhole and Wormhole East Museum? Absolutely. Yeah. Great article. So if you haven't read that, go to Texas Monthly dot com. And Dwight Cameron Silver, who is a friend of the podcast, if you will, friend of the Wormhole. Friend of pinball. And loves pinball. Did two articles, one for Houston Chronicle. More about Space City. That was about a year and a half ago. And then felt that he wanted to dedicate an entire article to Tim and Christine, and he did so. And it's really – oh, it's a good read, man. I shared it everywhere. So go check that out. Tex Ludley is a great magazine. Yeah. I'm excited. I know it's on there now. When I see it in HEB, that's going to be pretty cool. Yeah. I hope we make the magazine. Are they on the cover? I don't think so. Oh, wow. That'd be great. So I'm more and more excited about the museum every, every, every, every day. Thanks so much, Donovan. Please subscribe, all that crap, Discord. You know, if you do want to be on our Discord, wormholepinball at gmail.com. I am taking a two-week break. All right? I'm taking a two-week pinball, not pinball break, but a two-week podcast break. You on vacation? No, I just need a break. I've done a lot of podcasts. You have? So I think two weeks is fine. What is this, 27? Yeah. Wow. Thanks, Evan. Wow. So take it easy, Jamie, all right? And then I've got Jessica DiNardo of pinball fame coming up in two weeks, and then Texas State champion Alice Young. So I'm trying not to bother Erin Winnick-Anthony, but I'm seeing if she can make those two podcasts as well. So those would be great. If anyone wants to recommend someone that we should interview, I've got a couple more lined up in June. But other than that Let me know as well Calendar, here we go May 10th, there's a 3X at Eureka Heights Brewery Go check that place out They got the pulp And they're getting that John Wick Pro Stream's coming up May 13th Tune in to Twitch We're going to do Ghostbusters I know, you're excited I'm enjoying it now I'm getting more into it Now that I can hit that ramp You gotta hit that left ramp If anyone plays Ghostbusters and doesn't hit that left ramp, you're getting $20 million. I can't hit the one on the right, though. You don't need it. Just left ramp nuts. Thanks, Colby Lewis, for loaning that to the wormhole. Once in a while, we get people that want to loan a game to us and let us stream it. He has a beautiful copy of Ghostbusters, so thanks, Colby. May 20th is our Monday 3X. Then May 27th, Erin Winnick-Anthony is going to be streaming live from the wormhole, The Bells and Chimes. Space Camp Finals. If you haven't had a chance to listen to that last podcast with Danny, we got a lot of compliments on it. You did a great job. Erin did a great job. Oh, thank you. She was very interesting. She really opened up. She really did. I think she felt that she was in a safe place, and I hated interrupting her and going to her, but I do. I have that tendency to belittle this hobby. and I got to stop doing it. You know, when I say, hey, this stupid podcast or this. We're having fun, dude, and we're doing good stuff over here, and there's more and more coming here in Houston. So continue to check us out at all the Twitch, YouTube, all that great shit. Absolutely. Thank you guys so much. Donovan, thank you, sir. No problem. God bless you. Good night, guys. Good night.