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Ep 57: Deeproot to the Future!

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 34m·analyzed·Apr 5, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

LoserKid hosts discuss streaming setup, podcast crossovers, and detailed Twippies awards analysis.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson of LoserKid Pinball Podcast discuss podcast sponsorships, their recent streaming ventures with Twitch/OBS, appearances on other pinball podcasts (Final Round, Slam Tilt, Pinball Players), location play experiences, and provide detailed commentary on the 2021 Twippies awards across multiple categories including music/sound, homebrew machines, theme, locations, and toys/gimmicks.

Key Claims

  • Guns N' Roses won best music and sound effects at the Twippies with 42% of the vote

    high confidence · Scott Larson reading Twippies results directly

  • Sonic Spinball won favorite homebrew pinball with 22% of the vote

    high confidence · Scott Larson reading Twippies results

  • Rick and Morty won best theme at the Twippies

    high confidence · Josh and Scott discussing theme category winners

  • Logan Arcade in Chicago won favorite pinball location

    high confidence · Scott Larson reading Twippies results

  • LoserKid Pinball Podcast won Twippies for excellence in podcasting

    high confidence · Josh Roop direct claim with full disclosure

  • Zach McCarthy hit Black Order Battle Royale challenge in 17 flippers on Avengers

    high confidence · Josh Roop discussing Karl DeAngelo pinball slash competition results

  • Karl DeAngelo previously ran a Jurassic Park pinball slash competition with $1,000 of his own money for prize pool, current Avengers competition has approximately $1,700 pool

    medium confidence · Josh Roop discussing Karl DeAngelo's streaming competitions; noted 'Don't quote me on that' for $1,700 figure

  • Scott Larson received second COVID-19 vaccine dose on Thursday

    high confidence · Scott Larson personal statement during episode

  • Josh Roop had not played location pinball for a year before attending Jeff Rivera's birthday party tournament

    high confidence · Josh Roop personal anecdote

Notable Quotes

  • “And it's really, I think I know with the Jurassic Park one, it was his own money. He paid like a thousand dollars, his own money for the reward.”

    Josh Roop @ mid-episode streaming section — Highlights Karl DeAngelo's personal investment in pinball community events

  • “Your brain is an organ in your body, just like your liver, just like your heart, just like your kidneys. And there are so we are grateful that our bodies work really well most of the time. But sometimes they don't.”

    Josh Roop @ mental health discussion — Shows hosts' commitment to community mental health support and normalizing seeking help

  • “Vaccines work. I mean, seriously, I've seen that work. So be so devastating to many of my friends. And one of my friends at work ended up getting a double lung transplant because COVID hit her that hard.”

    Josh Roop @ vaccine discussion — Personal medical authority making evidence-based public health statement

  • “It's funny because like we talked about play fields. Like everyone talks about play fields, right? And then at the end of it, it kind of went silent. And Jeff's like, and guys, that's not going to make it. That's not going to make it because that's not – you guys took a left turn and then you U-turned it and then you went on a corkscrew.”

    Scott Larson @ Pinball Players Podcast crossover discussion — Humorous reflection on podcast content creation and editing constraints

  • “It's hard to compete on a – because it's really a different level, right? Yep. um yeah so next thing is favorite homebrew pinball machine”

    Scott Larson @ Best Music discussion conclusion — Notes the unique advantage of having a real band member involved in game design

  • “I'm in the dad ramp mode name category and so I would say that the one that people really wanted was Guns and Roses. I'm going to vote with my heart, though, and say that Avengers was immediate buy for me.”

    Scott Larson @ Best Theme category discussion — Shows the distinction between popular vote (Guns N' Roses) and personal preference (Avengers) in awards

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonZach MinneypersonKarl DeAngelopersonraydaypinballpersonRyan McQuaidpersonJeff Parsonsperson

Signals

  • ?

    content_signal: LoserKid Pinball Podcast has appeared on multiple established pinball podcasts (Final Round, Slam Tilt, Pinball Players) in consecutive months (January-February-March), indicating rising profile and acceptance within broader podcast community

    high · Josh and Scott discuss appearances on Final Round (Ep 25), Slam Tilt (Ep 160), and Pinball Players Podcast (Ep 67) with commentary on genuine relationships and mutual support among competing shows

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball podcast community demonstrates collegial relationships and cross-promotion despite competitive dynamics; hosts no longer identify as 'new kids' but as 'middle age' of podcast scene

    high · Scott notes 'these guys genuinely are approachable' and 'friendship is genuine it doesn't feel forced' regarding other podcasters; hosts describe themselves moving out of startup phase

  • ?

    technology_signal: Low-barrier entry to Twitch streaming using repurposed old smartphones and free OBS software democratizing content creation for casual podcasters

    high · Scott describes using two old phones and laptop with Streamlabs OBS, notes 'just download the app and you can network everything together' and emphasizes minimal upfront cost due to existing equipment

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Karl DeAngelo's Black Order Battle Royale qualifier competitions are generating high engagement with multiple streamers competing; Zach McCarthy's 17-flipper completion represents current competitive benchmark

    high · Josh describes $1,700 prize pool, monthly-long qualifying round, and mentions Zach McCarthy's result 'just two days ago, which is just insane' and notes current competition between Escher Lefkoff and raydaypinball

  • ~

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.284

0:00
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. We are on episode 57. I am Josh Roop, and with me, my co-host as always, Scott Larson. And Scott, we have quite the treat today. We've got a couple of news items we want to discuss and just kind of shoot the breeze as we do. But before we do, let's talk about those friends of the podcast. Okay, first and foremost, flipping out pinball. If you are looking to get in the pinball game and to up your collection, please check out Zach and Nicole Mini at Flippin' Out Pinball. They will be able to cater to all your pinball needs. They even get trade-ins, too. So if you don't want that hot new title and you want something that's – if you want to get that Batman 66 that they're no longer making, go ahead and contact them. Next, This Week in Pinball. If you want to get a quick synopsis of all the news in pinball, check out This Week in Pinball. The Twippies just came out, so we are going to talk about those today. So it's always good to check out the news there. Also, another resource, Pinball Supernova. Just looking on there today. And there's a lot of different things that you can do on there. There's shop, contact, tips, videos collection. There's also other stuff. So check them out. Another resource that is good for pinball. Next, Flyland Designs. We talked about it before. If you want to update your Bally Williams game from the 90s, He has some alternative frames in there. We have Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars, Released Whitewater. He also has a couple of fun ones that are an amalgam of all sorts of Bally Williams' greatest hits.
1:35
And so if you want to order that, I just ordered a Art Blades to put in my Medieval Madness. So it's just fun to have a different look for an old game. next if you if you have that uh pinball translate that's been laying around that you want to get up and uh make it look awesome in your room check out lit frames litframes.com our friend brad hunter over there has a great and economical way of illuminating that translate and it's easy to swap them in and out and so if you just want to get one frame and swap them in or if you want to make a collage on the wall go ahead and check him out and tell him we send you But also, pin shades if you want that polarized lens that works really well on location pinball. It actually works great to cut out the glare. If you're not playing at an elite location with Invisiglass and everything, then it's a good way to step up your competition. Next, if you are looking for a blog, my buddy's website, thepinballloft at thepinballloft.com. Just go ahead and check that out. He's always, the latest thing that he did, which is pretty awesome, he has a collector's edition of Guns N' Roses. And he decided that his ears were not exploded yet from all of that sound, so he even updated the sound bar on his Guns N' Roses. Pretty sure it rocks the paint off the walls when he plays that. Next, if you are looking for a way to up your pinball game, check out Ray Day Pinball. Great resource. Ray's a great guy. good friend and also happens to be the world's number one player so if you want to hop on and figure out how he does it he really does make it a lot a lot easier than it looks or than it's than it is for me anyway um so it's a good way of figuring out how to blow up your game and josh i hear there's another streamer that jumped on uh recently you want to talk about that yeah for sure so if you haven't heard carl d'angelo has done pin clash again uh this is the second round. The first one was Jurassic Park. And right now they're doing qualifiers. So if you want to attempt this, it is the least amount of flips finishing the Black Order Multi-Ball, or the Black Order Battle Royale. That's what it is. I decided, hey, I have two old phones. Well, I have my phone, I have an old phone. I'll figure out this jazz on my laptop, and I did. And now I'm streaming. So if you want to check us out, we're at LoserKidPinball on Twitch.tv. So just look up Loser Kid Pinball, and you'll find us there. You'll find me. Yeah, actually, ironically, how I started following Josh doing it, and I may get into it. Who knows? I was actually watching Raymond. Raymond just hopped on and said, Raymond's coming on. So I was watching Ray Day, and he was actually playing this pretty awesome retro game that he started building online when he was like 14. Nice. And it's Banjo-Kazooie, which I'm totally old enough that I have no recollection of this video game. But it's pretty awesome. And he actually made a pretty deep rule set for it. So I was watching that. I happened to be at work doing nothing. And then he sent it over. He's like, and next, hang on and we'll send it over to Loser Kid Bed and Hall. I was like, oh, I guess I need to ask Josh about that. Well, it was pretty cool, too. So it was funny because the first stream that I did was just – well, you can see it. I mean, there's no background. There's no – it's just seriously the play field, my laptop camera, and then the camera directly on the display. And I was just like, I want to see if I can even attempt this. And so when that worked out, I was like, well, I'll put a little elbow grease into this. So I spent the next night. And Streamlabs OBS is fantastic. It's very easy. so i sat down and and just kind of threw threw together a a template for loser kid and i was like boom that's good and i've done that a couple times i think i figured out the delay in the microphone because if you ever if you have watched the first couple episodes i i talk and then you can see me talking on the screen and then you don't hear me for like two three seconds so but um yeah it's it's pretty fun i've you know i've always wanted to stream i've i've thought that'd be really fun to do and with the advances in technology and we if you don't have an extra android phone i know people do apple so like obviously you're not gonna have an android phone laying around but i think smartphones been around long enough that we have a couple of them in our in our dresser or wherever you hide your extra dead phones pretty sure i have a nokia 95 somewhere. Exactly. And so I was just like, well, if I can use these phones and I mean, they make it really easy. You just download the app and you can network everything together. And boom, it was, it was something I could try without sinking a lot of money into, cause I already had the equipment. So I was like, let's just do this. Let's see what happens. Boom. Okay. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about a pin clash. I mean, we talked about it before and, uh, but you know, he's throwing something else out there. So tell us about the competition and how people can get involved. So if you want to get involved, all you have to do is you have to record what you're doing. You don't have to stream it, but you do have to record it and upload it somehow, whether it be to YouTube. And it's just the Black Order Battle Royale. So you hold in the flippers and you select challenge and boom, you're there. The secret or the trick, if you've been watching these, is you shoot that mystery scoop or the mystery target, depending on which version you're playing on. And you got to shoot it twice. And the first one will give you ant-man and then the second will give you wasp and wasp will give you a two ball multi-ball and doubles the values of all the shots so it's really nice because if you're used to making that black widow uh pot belly hawkeye shot you can knock this out pretty quick um if you're not used to that then i don't know what to tell you but it essentially takes if you don't have that going you have to hit every single shot before it advances you to the next black order member and so it's really fun. I figured to get qualified, it's free. So like, it doesn't cost you a dime if you just want to see, Hey, can I do this or not? And I suggest if, if you have the stuff to do it, just do it, you know? And how often is that for Carl to put this on? Right? Yeah. And that's really, I think I know with the Jurassic park one, it was his own money. He paid like a thousand dollars, his own money for the reward. And so, um, I think it's up to $1,700 this time. Don't quote me on that, but I think it's awesome that Carl puts these on, especially in COVID and all that stuff. and he's picking games that have uh like he could probably do those with turtles if he wanted to because that's got the uh i don't know what to call it the the time racing challenge but uh he's picking games that um will have objectives that could be obtained later on and so you're qualifying for the rest of this month i know people are complaining that avengers is being streamed way too much well guess what it's it's gonna happen till the end of the month and so and then in june the top 24 will compete for the money and whatnot. And they're just calling it. It's not even competing. People are saying they're donating to the Escher Lefkoff fund, which makes sense. So it really, it's down between Escher and Ray Day at this point. Actually, no, sorry, ZMAC. ZMAC did it in 17 flips just two days ago, which is just insane. But it's a really cool run. If you haven't checked that one out, go check it out. Let's talk a little bit past the streaming though. I want to talk about, If you guys haven't been checking out or following us, it's not just Loser Kid we've been recording with. We recorded with Final Round in January. If you didn't check it out, it's Episode 25, Winter Kids. Really, really fun being on with Marty and Jeff. We appreciate them having us on and talking about the Twippy Zen and whatnot. And then in February, we joined up with Slam Tilt Podcast on Episode 160, which was a glutton of problems, which was a hoot. I mean, Slam Tilt is like the original podcasters. They're up there. They've been quite some time, and they've spurred all these other podcasts. It was really cool to be on one of the original ones. And then just recently, we were on Pinball Players Podcast with Jeff Parsons and Joe Lemire. If you haven't checked that one out, that is episode 67. I can't remember the title of it, but it was a really fun episode.

“I think it's awesome that Spooky took home this award. Yeah. I mean, it really is a great theme. Like Rick and Morty is obviously doing something right because of how much influence they have in pop culture right now.”

Josh Roop and Scott Larson @ Best Theme category — Recognition of Spooky's Rick and Morty theme winning popular vote

Joe Lemire
person
Jeff Riveraperson
Zach McCarthyperson
Martyperson
Jeffperson
Eric Priebeperson
Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
Pinball Supernovacompany
Flyland Designscompany
Spooky Pinballcompany
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
American Pinballcompany
LoserKid Pinball Podcastproduct
Twippiesevent
Black Order Battle Royaleproduct
Winchester Mystery Housegame

sentiment_shift: Post-vaccine rollout, pinball community showing renewed interest in location play after pandemic slowdown; Josh Roop's first location play in a year signals broader return to in-person play

medium · Josh states 'for the first time, ladies and gentlemen, that I have been out and playing on location in a year' and later 'We're getting to that point where it's like we've been so pent up for so long. It's time to start getting out'

  • ?

    awards_signal: Twippies 2021 demonstrates voting patterns across multiple categories with data-driven percentages; shows geographic bias toward East Coast locations and established IP themes

    high · Scott references specific vote percentages (Guns N' Roses 42%, Sonic 22%, Rick and Morty winning); hosts note East Coast venue dominance and surprise absence of Pinball Hall of Fame despite its comprehensive collection

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Tension between pure thematic appeal vs. mechanical/gimmick integration in awards categories; hosts debate whether toys/gimmicks are distinct from theme integration

    high · Josh and Scott discuss Guns N' Roses instruments (guitar picks, drumsticks) as either theme integration or toys/gimmicks, noting 'you could say that now' regarding how categories can be interpreted

  • ?

    manufacturer_signal: American Pinball (Eric Priebe) and Jersey Jack recognized for distinctive approaches to theme integration; Spooky Pinball winning for broad cultural appeal of Rick and Morty IP

    medium · Hosts praise Avengers' 'amazing integration' and Guns N' Roses' instrument incorporation; note Spooky's Rick and Morty success linked to character's prominence 'in pop culture right now' and appearances 'on commercials for sodas'

  • ?

    product_concern: Hosts identify confusion and subjectivity in Twippies categories, particularly best theme and toys/gimmicks; prefer Pinball Industry Awards' more specific criteria

    high · Scott states 'Best theme is very subjective it becomes absolutely yeah it it very personal it's not' and 'everything was almost overthought' regarding industry awards; notes these issues stem from different voting populations

  • ?

    venue_signal: Pinball community venues showing strong geographic concentration on East Coast; West Coast locations underrepresented in awareness and recognition despite existence

    high · Discussion of Logan Arcade and Sunshine Laundromat dominance in Brooklyn/Chicago; hosts surprised Pinball Hall of Fame (Banff, California) absent and note 'we don't hear about them as much' regarding Portland/Seattle locations

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball podcast community showing explicit commitment to mental health support and destigmatization; hosts modeling vulnerability discussion about Jeff Rivera's personal challenges

    high · Josh emphasizes 'very pro getting help if you need it' and compares brain to other organs requiring care; notes 'life takes precedence over pinball unless you're working for Stern' acknowledging work-life balance importance

    • 9:54
    It was really great to talk to these guys. We talked to them behind the scenes, but we were always like, hey, we've got to record an episode. What did you think of it, Scott? Did you have fun doing final round, slam till and pinball players? You know, the best part about it is that these guys genuinely are approachable. And it's we feel like we're we're starting to get into the middle age of podcast. So we're no longer that we're no longer the new kids out there. But at the same time, you have to realize that in any industry, there's going to be some sort of competition, right? like us against them but it really behind the scenes on on the podcasters that we've reached out to they've been more than welcoming to us and it feels that the the friendship is genuine it doesn't feel forced the reason why these people are recording is because one they have a passion for pinball and two they have someone they can talk to about pinball i mean let's be honest this is this is a niche kind of weird hobby that kind of is yeah it's a little bit that way in that it's not like it was when I was a kid where there were arcades everywhere. It's hard to find arcades unless you're going to a bar. So it's just different, and it's fun to be able to interact with people who have the same sort of passion. And just for them to be super supportive of everything we do because we are supportive of everything they do. We're fans too. We're listening to other podcasts, and it's fun to see how they do things. And then just bring our own thing. Yep. Well, it was really fun, too. Like it's like you said, it's different with every other podcast. Like what Jeff and Marty do with final rounds, definitely different from what Slam Tilt does or even pinball players. But it was really funny because there's a part that that Jeff had cut out. He cut out what? Twenty twenty minute conversation between Joe. Oh, yeah. Geez. Yeah. You guys just went off. It was like, oh, this is never going to get in there. Well, it was really funny because like we talked about play fields. Like everyone talks about play fields, right? And then at the end of it, it kind of went silent. And Jeff's like, and guys, that's not going to make it. That's not going to make it because that's not – you guys took a left turn and then you U-turned it and then you went on a corkscrew.
    12:09
    But it was awesome. So it was really fun to be on those. And I don't know. It just – it's fun. It's fun going on other podcasts. It's really – it just reinforces that pinball really is a community sport. It's a community effect. I I went out to to Jeff Rivera from the pinball podcast. He had a birthday party on Friday night. And this is the first time, ladies and gentlemen, that I have been out and playing on location in a year. Just because I, you know, I feel a little obligated and and rightfully so that, you know, my job, I'm exposed to sick people all the time. And I felt that it was kind of my obligation to be to be a leader in saying we need to do things appropriately. Now, that's not saying that I wouldn't go down. OK, this the we don't have as much location pinball here in Utah. And I've been so crazy busy over the last year. So I think there are ways of doing it safely. So I I'm not taking the high road and saying that anybody who plays location pinball is being reckless. what I am saying is there are intelligent ways of doing it, like going and wearing masks and doing all that. It just hasn't really fit into my schedule. And we've been so busy at work and really at home trying to maximize my time with my kids. It just hadn't bubbled up. So it was great to get out and play on location, though, because the locations do need it. And in this location, it's about an hour away from my house. So to do it is a commitment for me to hop in the car and drive down because it's at a bar. So I'm not bringing the kids. So that's the reason why I haven't been doing a lot here. But it was a lot of fun. It was just different. We had a quick tournament. I didn't take last in every group. So that was good. Just took last in two out of three. So it was still fun. and that's what I did over the weekend. Nice. And I wish I could have went too. I texted Jeff and said, hey, buddy, I'm sorry, I'll miss it.
    14:25
    I'm three hours away. He said we'll catch up. But it's funny because, you know, people gave us crap about having Keith always on, but I think Jeff is tied. We've had Jeff on three times. Yeah. And I'm like, we should have him on again because it's been a while. It's been since, what, February of last year? Yeah, it has been. Legitimately, Jeff's been going through some, that he has been very open with, you know, some personal challenges and just trying to solidify things. So as as everything, pinball takes a backseat when you have other things that bubble to the top. Amen. And life takes precedence over pinball unless you're working for Stern or something. But, you know, that that is that's just something that to be aware of. And as we've said before, very pro getting help if you need it, talking about, you know, talk about your feelings, talk about things that you're frustrated with, talk about things that are going on. And if that involves getting a counselor, if that involves addressing your mental health, you know, your your brain is it's an organ in your body, just like your liver, just like your heart, just like your kidneys. And there are so we are grateful that the celestial architects set it up. So our bodies work really well most of the time. But sometimes they don't. And there's a reason why my job is medicine and my job is to help the body when something goes sideways. So, again, just want to make sure everybody feels the support they need. And it was just good to see him. And I think things are stabilizing a little more. So we'd love to have him back on. It was good to see. My kids are actually heading down south at spring break. There's actually right outside Vegas. uh our utah has saint george and that's where my in-laws live and so they're going to go down for a few days i didn't get the time off because the hospital's still open so we um so i'll be up here and i'm actually planning on doing a pinball night with jeff so cool that is awesome well you'll have to yeah i wish i could be there man it's yeah well yeah i know it's and i'm actually working Saturday. Otherwise, I'd probably try to sneak away for a weekend. I don't blame you. Yeah, we're getting to that point where it's like we've been so pent up for so long. It's time to start getting out. My second shot's Thursday, so I'm excited about that.
    16:46
    Life is feeling like it's starting to get back to normal. I don't know where you guys live, and if it's getting back to normal there, I know like Teola set up in Canada, they're a little bit slower in rolling out the vaccines. So I hope for those that want it, I hope you get it. I'm excited. I'm excited that life is getting back to normal. And I'll make a plug. Vaccines work. I mean, seriously, I've seen that work. So be so devastating to many of my friends. And one of my friends at work ended up getting a double lung transplant because COVID hit her that hard. She was a healthy nurse. Yes. So, you know, it just I don't want to make this political. I'm just going to say from a medical standpoint, vaccines work. Please go get it. So, yep. Well, let's move on. we got our three topics we want to talk about today. I know you're chomping at the bit to at least get to one of them. Yeah, I know. Great. Okay. But I, I think we should, we should save that juicy tidbit till the end. Cause you know, people come for the rant. They do.
    17:45
    Let's talk about Twippies first. Okay. So Twippies. So let's do a quick rundown. Do you want me to just run them off real quick, Josh? And then we'll come back and say any surprises, anything, you know, how did you feel? Yeah, Let's just do a quick run of the list. So let's start with best music and sound effects. So that was, you know, we'll just talk about in category. So best music and sound effects. I have everything in front of me, Josh, and I'm sure you're familiar with it, but you may not know the percentages because I have the percentages pulled up. What was your gut feeling on what should have won and what? And I'll tell you what did win. OK, so are we going with best music first? Best music and sound effects. So it's a combined category. This one's hard because, I mean, obviously Guns N' Roses has fantastic music, but it's not technically music made for pinball. But you could argue Slash made specific riffs for the game. So I don't know. I think GNR did walk away with this one, and I'm fine with it just because Slash had put more music into it additional than just the songs. And if you've played GNR, it's not – like you don't actually start in a song. You have to work into getting a song. So, yeah, that's my pick is GNR. Yeah, and that's – it was the overwhelming favorite, 42% of the vote. Yep. So it's kind of hard when you have an iconic band where a band member who makes the music is also involved in the design process. Yeah. It's hard to compete on a – because it's really a different level, right? Yep. um yeah so next thing is favorite homebrew pinball machine now this is challenging just because unless you're familiar with all this stuff you're not going to know like what is out there because you see them on pin side but you don't really you know it's it's not like you're gonna see uh a high volume of these things so you know and i'm just gonna scramble these a little bit So there's a Mad Max rethemed pinball machine. There's a Legend of Zelda linked to the past. There's an Aladdin one. There's a Crazy Mansion by the Pinball Amigos. There's Steamboat Willie.
    20:00
    There's Sonic the Hedgehog. And there's Dragon Ball Z. Have you followed any of these things, Josh? Because this is a tighter category than I would have anticipated. I've followed a few of these. I was actually kind of shocked to see some of these on the list because I didn't know they existed. But that's the thing, though. I don't follow the homebrew very closely. I follow Sonic Spinball because I think that is a fantastic game, and Ryan McQuaid has done a lot to it. I was super impressed with The Crazy Mansion. Is that what it's called? Yeah, The Crazy Mansion by the Pinball Amigos. Man, that one is insane. Like, don't get me wrong. Like, I like Spinball, but holy crap, those guys have done something special with that. Right. So those are the top two, and it's actually pretty close. What did you think won? Sonic. Yeah. I think it had more exposure than any of these other games. It did. And really, if there's one theme, you're right. That's going to translate so well to pinball. Anybody who grew up like I grew up playing Sega Genesis. I had a Nintendo Entertainment System. And actually, I never bought the Super Nintendo, but I did buy the Sega Genesis, which had Sonic the Hedgehog. So it was 22% of the vote. But there was a lot less votes in this compared to the other categories. And I think it's just because people didn't they didn't know as much. And I don't even know if I had an educated guess on these things. So, OK, next one. Best theme. So this is actually going to be different. So what do you I'll just rattle them all off.
    21:41
    Avengers, TMNT, Stranger Things, Hot Wheels, Guns N' Roses. heavy metal rick and morty heist and ranger in the ruins so this is a weird like category to me because what constitutes the best theme like okay what sells the most what's the most integrated into our society it's just it's a weird especially since there's a best theme integration category as well isn't there yes theme integration yeah and so it's weird to me that there's like a best theme because it's it's all very subjective i guess a lot of these are subjective well okay i'll I'll put it this way, though. Best theme.
    22:20
    I would argue in seasons past that Star Wars was on everybody's must have theme list. Yeah, that's true. Now, I will say if you talk about theme integration, some people love the game, some people didn't. So it was a it was a little different when it came to what the theme people wanted versus how it was integrated. Yeah. And you could argue the same thing about when you talk about Pirates of the Caribbean. It was it was an immersive theme integration. But one of the knocks on it, we're talking about JJP one, one of the knocks on it is that, well, it's doesn't have any of the movie assets. yeah it just had like yes it's a pirate it's it's pirate and it's linked to pirates of the caribbean but it doesn't have the same amount of volume so anyway i would say that that's the argument on that so of those what what would you say is the best theme and then we'll talk about who won honestly the best theme is either guns and roses or avengers infinity quest just because they're so predominant in our culture right now. Okay. Is my opinion Okay Like and I would have personally I think I ended up going with turtles because turtles is the perfect thing yeah and that why that your dream thing yeah that why i like the problem is his best theme is very subjective it becomes absolutely yeah it it very personal it's not and i think that's the problem i have with the twippies is like with the pinball industry awards everything was almost overthought you know what i'm saying like does this deserve that like it has to me we all kind of gave even though there wasn't a criteria we all gave it criteria to follow where with twippies it kind of is like it is popular vote so yeah but i i actually think that um that they're really different award categories yeah really and and the uh the pinball industry awards i think is great and okay full disclosure we won the twippy for uh um oh sorry i'll let you edit that okay uh we won the award for excellence in podcasting and we are extremely grateful for that however it's a different it's a different selection criteria it's a different people voting and i totally get that that twippies this is this is the ultimate pinball fan participation so jeff's done a great job of letting definitely letting the people decide what's going to be so yeah i you know what best theme i i'm in the dad rock category and so i would say that the one that people really wanted was Guns and Roses. I'm going to vote with my heart, though, and say that Avengers was immediate buy for me. Like when I found out it was Avengers, I just told Zach, I called him and I had heard the rumor the night before. I actually was pretty blindsided, but they said, well, the rumor is this. And I said, OK, if it's Keith Elwin game, put me down, put me down for the L.A. But I totally get that there are people who love Rick and Morty and that's what won. It was slim between that and Guns N' Roses. So I think it was the hipsters versus the dad rock guys. Well, and I think it's awesome that Spooky took home this award. Yeah. I mean, it really is a great theme. Like Rick and Morty is obviously doing something right because of how much influence they have in pop culture right now. Well, they're actually on commercials for sodas or whatever it is. So that surprised me more than anything. Yep. Okay, favorite pinball location. I'm just going to call this out because all these locations are good. Logan's Arcade won in Chicago because why not, right? It's between Logan's and Sunshine. Those are the ones that I hear so much about. But every single one of these I'm going to call out because I want to give airtime to. Logan's Arcade, Chicago, Illinois. Old School Pinball Experience, Sao Paulo, Brazil. Pinball Palace in Brunswick, Georgia. Jack Bar, Brooklyn, New York. Sunshine Laundromat, Brooklyn, New York. The Pinball Lounge, Oviedo, Florida. District 82. uh, DePierre, Wisconsin, mom's organic market, college park, Maryland. Seriously. There's gotta be some, some four 20 going on there. Uh, Fort Wayne pin, uh, Fort Wayne pinball wizards world arcade in Fort Wayne, Indiana. And my parents basement on Avondale estate, uh, States, Georgia. So yeah, a lot of East coast location. Yeah. All I, yeah, all of them. Yeah, really all Illinois, Is Illinois or Indiana probably where the line of demarcation goes? But, hey, pinball is an Eastern sport, so we're an outlier in the West. Yeah. I'm kind of shocked that Pinball Hall of Fame didn't make that at all. That's actually a good point.
    27:17
    You know, I never thought about that. Because you think about it. If you talk pinball and that new massive location. It looks great. Yeah, it looks great. But, I mean, that has got to be the ultimate location, right? Like it's got every symbol. Yeah. Okay. The ultimate location is out of Banniff, California. Yeah. But they, you know, they can't turn the lights on all the time. So, yeah, I would say that they're going with places that they are that they're familiar with and they're playing. So I'm actually a little surprised that more people from the Portland and the Seattle area didn't get their locations in. But I think it's because we don't hear about them as much. There's still a lot of people and a lot of podcasters. We're actually kind of an outlier in the West. Most of the podcasters are back East podcasters. And so they've been to these locations. They've talked about them. We've been like Free Gold Watch. Yeah. Oh, exactly. There's a couple West Coast ones. I'm surprised they're not on there. But let's move on. Yeah. Okay. Favorite pinball publication or article? I feel so bad because like Jeff Patterson is embarrassed that he got this. Yeah. Okay. But at the same time. And it's yeah. So Guns N' Roses pinball deep dive. And it's come on, Jeff, you deserve this game, this award, because that was an amazing. I actually. But third to that, the third vote was the Deep Root pinball platform, pinball, pin armor ecosystem future games and future plans such a great article and so accurate okay um all right next best toys and gimmicks okay i don't get this one at all i remember this one distinctly okay uh you know okay the challenge how do you define a toy or a gimmick i don't know when i think toy gimmick honestly what comes to mind is pat lawler i think of adam's family with the thing hand i think of twilight zone with the battlefield i think of i think of something that's not conventionally in a pinball that is maybe specific to that machine yeah i think it seems like peripherally involved in the gameplay it's not just like a barbie doll that you've glued under the glass or a troll's doll you stuck in roller coaster right right yeah okay so it's that so it interacts with play at some point but um it's like newer stuff Groot or Sparky from Metallica like they are called Bash toys yeah you you absolutely you you could say that now so this is Guns and Roses by Jersey Jack and I will say that okay I I think that uh Avengers has you know they have some really cool things in there I think the subway's cool and all that I think just putting in all of the instruments into the play field with the drumsticks and with the guitar pick or the guitar lock and the spinner that's a guitar pick. And then you have the bass on the left side that has the different ramps. I mean, that really is a pretty amazing integration that Eric did there. But to me, that's theme integration. That's not toys and gimmicks. Yeah, okay, but I would say that that's a toy in a gimmick is part of theme integration.
    30:45
    See, then you start muddying the waters on that. Okay, well, there's 1,800 votes in this. I can interpret it however I want. This is where I felt like Pinball Industry Awards got it right because they gave it to Stranger Things. Even though that might not be Herald as a fantastic game, that projection system has never been done on a pinball machine. Yeah, that was cool. yeah well actually i i thought the black light effect was was really cool yeah if i got and oh my gosh that pinball topper looked really cool and yes it was straight out of the 80s which of course it is but it looked really cool and like i'm not a huge fan of stranger things i know people are starting to warm up to it i knew it took a year and a half or whatever it's been but like it has a bash toy the demogorgon is a bash toy like it just it maybe that's why i have a rough time with this category because like don't get me wrong guns roses is a fantastic machine but there's nothing i look at that play field and think that is a fantastic toy yeah okay so that's just me all right so you're hate mailed okay uh so favorite pinball virtual event i'm just gonna say this out it was uh the virtual pinball expo by chicago i think they did a great job they they won with 27% of the vote and they were 11% over the next guy. So, and pin clash was next. So I would say that that was pretty amazing on the fly being able to, well, not really on the fly, but able to retool it. So that was pretty awesome. Yeah. Best theme integration. So same players. Yeah. Guns and roses. Hands down. Absolutely. Yeah. I would, I would argue that if you stripped off all of the cosmetic paint on a game, and walk up to it and say, what do you think this is? If you walk up to a stripped down Guns N' Roses, you're going to think it's Guns N' Roses. Yep. Okay. Favorite website. Is there any other besides? Like, don't get me wrong, Jeff Patterson. We love This Week in Pinball. I use Pinside more than any other pinball website that's out there. Yeah. You know, the top three on here are what I go to a lot. Pinside, hands down. Um, it's even with all the drama on pin side, it's still a great resource this weekend. Pinball, uh, again, great resource to summarize all that drama on pin side and the internet pinball database. I mean, it's, it's so great. Now I will say there's, there's obviously some other honorable mentions that I'm just going to run down. So pinball news, tilt forums, pop a pinball, pinball magazine, John's arcade, Buffalo pinball and fun with bonus really actually great um great sites and i just want to make sure everybody knew about them but yeah the top three are going to be the juggernauts so yeah well and the thing about pin side i actually never see the drama but i use there's 10 tabs on there yeah i'm saying i just there's so much information there it's hard not to go to pin side because if you need to know something about a pinball machine that just popped up on craigslist you go to pin side or internet pinball database. You know, it just, there's so much I find on pin site. It's hard to say that there's any other site that's above that. Right. So best rules. Same player, however, I'm going to do an honorable mention and say Heist, Heavy Metal, and Ranger in the Ruins by Nick Baldrige. By the way, anybody who knows who Nick Baldrige is, he is a crazy savant who does all these bingo games. and I guarantee if anybody actually had access to his game, they would be amazed by what a savant he is, but because he's in Virginia and it's kind of a niche area, I'm glad he got some votes, but let's talk about best rules between Avengers, GNR, Rick and Morty, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Stranger Things, and Hot Wheels.
    34:35
    It's Avengers. Is there really any other thing? I mean, honestly. The rules on everything else are great, But the problem is, is Keith is pushing the bounds of what rules can be. It's hard. It's kind of hard to compete with the best player ever when you're trying to do the rules integration, because he has such a great finger on the pulse of, OK, this is a great rule set and it's accessible. like his okay even if i can can stumble through his rules you know what was that even a even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the in the cupboard every once in a while um but he he's able to take it to an excellent level so even the top players in the world love the rules so yeah and i yeah um total fanboy for his rule sets which is why i own every one of his machines and i you know i have Maiden Pinball coming this summer. Okay. Best animations and display. I'm fine with this one. GNR. The display. You could just say display. They have so much on there. It's not even close. Between GNR and Rick and Morty, because Rick and Morty was great too. Yeah. I would agree with that, but that's when you have to take into the content. Having that much concert footage is just unbelievable. I agree. Well, what did Eric say on our podcast when we interviewed him? Did he say it was like two terabytes, four terabytes? Yeah, it was so much that they're never going to be able to watch any of that stuff. When they mail you a hard drive, that is a ton of content.
    36:19
    And professionally shot. Guns N' Roses was the highest earning concert of the year until they shut it down. So, yep. Okay. Favorite pinball YouTube channel.
    36:34
    Straight down the middle. Down the middle. So, you know, Zach, what is that? Four years running? Yeah, it's great. You know, I will say there are a lot of great options out there. And I'm just going to run through these two straight down the middle. TNT Amusements. I mean, who is not pulled up Todd Tucky and I watch something. Papa TV. Obviously, if you're going to look at rules, you know, Kerry Hardy, Pinball Moz, Flippin' Out Pinball, No Coin Drop Required, Marv Loco, and Hurry Up Challenge. So all of these deserve at least honorable mentions. Well, and the cool part, too, I don't know if you caught that this year, but if you made the top 10, regardless if you won or not, you still get a plaque as honorable mention for top 10. And that's pretty awesome. That is really cool, Jeff, to do that this year as well. Best call-outs.
    37:24
    Rick and Morty, baby. yeah and the funny thing is i so we don't have a rick and morty around here so i've only been able to see it online but i i hear everybody who plays it they laugh so hard at it which is what a great way of doing it right yep and i'm fine with rick and morty oh absolutely no perfect yeah it's it's a lot better i don't know the only other one that you could probably go with is is probably guns and roses because that was all custom call outs as well too yeah you know yeah Yeah, exactly. But I'm biased, though. I like Mark Silk. His work on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, man, is great. Okay. I would say all top three are pretty amazing. You have Rick and Morty, you have Guns N' Roses, and TMNT. And so, yes. And I guarantee if they just turned on the mic and let Mark just go to town, he would come up with even funnier call-outs than what they were able to allow him to do.
    38:18
    That's the secret. Did you know that's the secret? Godzilla is supposedly rumor, and Mark Silk is doing the Godzilla voice. He's doing the Godzilla voice? Yeah. That's the rumor we're starting. But can he do that? He's not really a dinosaur, so can he play a dinosaur? I don't know. Kind of weird. Okay. Best pinball mod. Okay. I don't know if you guys listen to Kerry Hardy. He went over the Twippies, and he kind of pounded this category. And the problem is now that I've listened to him, I kind of agree. Like it should be in a modification to the pinball machine. And the one that won this was this. The Stranger Things UV kit. Yeah. Yes. And so the problem is, he's like, you go to Stern's website and it's an accessory. Like it's, you find it under accessories. It was planned to be with the game. It was never a modification modification for the game. Yeah. Okay. I don't know. Okay. I will say though, talk about anything that changes the game. Okay. Yeah. Changes. And really, if you look at all this stuff, it's all amazing so the stranger things uv kit if you own a stranger things why on god's green earth do you not have this in your machine yeah like it is amazing and get the topper too uh well can you argue though like when we were talking with martin on on final round he said when they got to australia they were already equipped they came with the light kit so technically it's not a modification at that point yeah i i don't know you could technically say toppers are modifications I just don't know We start getting muddy waters I'll call it, I'll say yeah, that's good So you have the interactive Backboard display by 86 pixels, excuse me Avira House of Horror, the Garga, yeah All these things Yeah, the Pirates of the Caribbean ship sculpts Yeah, I, those things Are amazing by the art of I don't know how to pronounce This guy's name, he's out of the country Loire but it's it's pretty amazing the red smoke witch mod we need to get this guy on i i talked to him about a year ago because i got on the list for the red smoke witch mod 2.0 by steve and i have all of his mods i that reminds me i need to reach out steve sorry i we've i'm really i i do follow up sometimes it just takes a while so you know there's some other things on there so yeah pretty awesome stuff um yeah the measle mods is on there for the adventures avengers infinity quest uh pin stadium lighting flipper cooling by you know creature from the back room black alley creation so all good yeah favorite pinball stream streamer i mean come on it's dead flip i mean it's uh he's the one everybody recognizes four years in a row baby and that's so it's great like dead flip does good for the community like he obviously streams stern stuff he is on the forefront of showing games he's been doing it the longest and so well it's hard too because it's like he gets all the prime content like buffalo pinball might follow up because they got guns and roses right out the box and so they would be the only one that's comparable to having resources like dead flip does so i don't know but you're getting the personality too so and god bless rb flip france those guys I turn them on and I watch them. I have no idea what they're talking about, but they're, it's fun to watch someone in another country enjoying it. So yes, it's fantastic. So I had no shock that that flip one. Yeah, it was good for him. And, and Hey, Zach, many still on there flipping up in ball. So, yep. Okay. Best light show. And come on guns and roses. No chance. Like no one, no one ever has a chance on that one. Yeah, I agree. Favorite pinball topper. Yeah, so Rick and Morty took it away. I don't know how I feel about that one. It is a free topper. Yeah. It's a good topper, but do you feel like there was other toppers out there that were better this year? No, I just didn't think there was a lot of great toppers this year.
    42:21
    And I'm a topper guy, okay? I actually bought the Jurassic Park topper. I bought the Avengers Infinity Quest topper.
    42:30
    Okay, there wasn't a Black Knight topper. Yeah. Well, I mean, technically Turtles was because it had the moving eye, but it didn't talk to you because it's the Technodrome. I just – I don't know. I had a hard time with that one because it looked like a Walmart display. And I feel bad because, like, speaking of toppers, like, it's fantastic that Rick Amore was free or it came as a thank you for all the games selling out within, like, four hours or whatever it was. But you look on the opposite end of the spectrum because Turtles – I was in on a Turtles topper until it came out $1,000. yeah that was that was kind of a lot it's it's hard to justify 20 of the games so and i i felt like that was searching for the ceiling because i think they found it because i didn't buy it yeah i didn't buy it either and i actually buy most of it and i actually i ordered a led zeppelin one because it has the interactive search lights which looks pretty cool yeah um but yeah i yeah that was that was a dud for me but you know buy it now and you can sell it on pin side and for 3 000 in two years or whatever yeah uh favorite pinball podcast i mean okay uh good for him uh chris took it canada yeah so um he's he's entertaining i mean there's obviously there's a reason why people listen to his show so well and let's go back over the like streamer youtube podcast these guys have won it four years in a row yeah uh they've been around for a while they've got quite the fan base. It's, it's funny to me because we saw a lot of drama. There's always, for some odd reason, there's a lot of drama with the pinball podcast. There's not, that's not odd. It's well, it's self-generated. Yes, it is self-generated, but I really did want to see super awesome. Take it. I feel bad that they put a lot of that effort in. Yeah. It was certainly the most well-produced show. It probably should have been in its own category because it wasn't just, Chris and Chris talking.
    44:28
    Frenchie put a lot of time editing and really polished the show. What we do is more of an afternoon chat. You call up your buddy and we're talking. They put a lot more into refining it. Maybe it should have been a different category.
    44:46
    They took a second. It was good. I want to reiterate, this is all favorite. This isn't the best. The problem is, for some odd reason, people think that these awards are justifications for either how they run their podcast or it's a pat on the back, essentially. Chris Franchi put a lot of work into that show. It is amazing how much editing he put into that show. Nothing to take away from Kaneda because he's been doing this for five years. He's obviously doing something right because, let's be honest, you've got the percentages there. Kaneda was like 900, almost 1,000 votes versus 350 from Super Awesome Pinball Show. So he has quite the following. He is doing something right. Okay, best artwork. I don't agree with this one. I would say this suffers with Zombie Yeti having two options. Okay, I can see that. And so it suffers because I think he did an excellent job with both Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Avengers. And really, if you add both of those together, that's 34% of the vote. So if you're talking best artist, it's going to be Zombie Yeti. Yeah. However, Jersey Jack with Guns N' Roses, they got, I don't know the guy's name, and I'm sorry about that. But they were able to put together a comparable package that was an excellent package. I would argue it should just go to Jeremy Packer anyway but all three machines look fantastic all top three, Guns N' Roses, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Avengers so I still think Ninja Turtles hands down well that's what I voted for best play field gameplay and layout we're almost done kids Avengers Infinity Quest I mean it is the layout yeah i agree uh game of the year hold on there's one missing from this category that we never talked about best artwork no wait uh rookie of the year oh yeah you're right it's not on here i don't know why it's not on here but ken cromwell won that one and that was awesome good job man that is you did a fantastic job with the marketing i know it probably isn't just you but it is awesome that you took home that award yeah well guns and roses that release was the best release I've ever seen.
    47:15
    Okay game of the year Guns N Roses This one is obvious Yeah and this seems to be I actually think the last two categories nailed it The best play field, gameplay, and layout I think is Avengers And the game of the year is Guns N' Roses Because of the whole experiential thing So, okay Alright, I don't really have anything else to add on that we only spent 20, 30 minutes on just talking to him. Yeah. We talked way longer than we were planning on it, but that's okay. Okay.
    47:50
    Give us your thoughts too. In the comments. When we post this episode, tell us what you thought. If, if we're close, if you agree with you disagree, I just, I felt like for most of these, these were on par. I was very impressed with how many were taken home by Jersey Jack pinball. It's awesome. See Eric being recognized for the work that he's putting in. And great job, Jeff. Great. Yeah. And Jeff should get an award for an award show. So. Yeah. And I agree. Yeah. So. Okay. Let's move on to, let's talk rumors really quick. I know the pinball show, I know that we're releasing this after they did their show this week.
    48:28
    But last week they talked about the next title rumor. And it wasn't hard to not see where this is coming from because it was kind of alluded to on the Twippies. If you saw this, the mayor of Back to the Future had said, is there another Back to the Future pinball machine coming? And they said, like, to be continued. So let's talk Back to the Future.
    48:53
    Obviously, if we go timeline, Brian Eddy's next. He'd be in charge of Back to the Future. Does that do anything for you?
    49:03
    Okay, so we are just going off. we really don't have back any spoilers out there or any leaked information. We're just going off. Who is the next person in line? And it's got to be Brian Eddy since stranger things was his last one. And we are assuming we haven't heard anything different that he's still in the rotation. So that would make sense by him. The big challenge with this is with theme versus theme integration. It's all going to depend on what assets they're given and how they're going to be able to integrate this. You're not going to be able to play the Jurassic Park card, which I thought was an excellent choice in being part, basically being a side character in the in the Jurassic Park story. story so you have this parallel thing going on and so it's associated with it and it's relevant but it's not necessary that you're ned driving to the docks or you're ned trying to go in and steal the the canister of the embryos or so they could have easily gone down that road and that's what ghostbusters did with okay who brought the dog um and it worked really well with Jurassic Park because it gave them a lot of flexibility.
    50:30
    Josh, do you think that approach will work with Back to the Future? No, I think this has to be a theme integrated game. This can't be just some side quest of the series. I guess you could go that route. But with Stranger Things... You would feel left out, though. You would feel that you were shortchanged by the story if you're just interacting with Hildel High as opposed to actually being one of the characters, being Marty, being Death or whatever. I agree. I think, but if you look at Stranger Things, Brian Eddy did theme integration very well on that game, regardless of how you feel about the gameplay or the actual game itself. The theme integration is fantastic on that game. So I think Back to the Future going to Eddy is a good choice when it comes to theme integration. I think that if you're going to do this, you do the first movie. I feel like the second and third movie were good, but the second movie, so half the story is just pretty much recapping what happened in the first movie. And so – The second movie is look at the cool stuff that's going to happen in the future. The stuff that we think about with Back to the Future is, okay, I want a hoverboard or, hey, I want the self-lacing Nikes or, hey, I want all this kind of stuff, which is fun and gimmicky. But that's really all it was. It really didn't tell the story very well. Back to the Future is a perfect story if you just use the first movie. Yep, I agree. I think there's a lot of meat on the bone for this game, and I could see a lot of wonderful things. There's a lot of people that have talked to me about this being their dream theme, which kind of shocks me. But I did not grow up on the Back to the Future movies. I remember watching them growing up, and they were fantastic. As a child, I thought they were great. And I've bought them all since and have rewatched them within the last year or two. And they're good. They're just not my cup of tea. And so what I'm more intrigued about is to see what Eddie produces for a play filled this go around. Yeah, I it has to be just the first movie. I really the the other ones, the the other ones were a money grab. They didn't feel if you do a critical examination of the story, it's kind of like the Matrix. The Matrix was the perfect one off story. and when you start getting into third fourth fifth sixth um it it's it just feels like hey we made a boatload of money on this and so let's rewrite something and make it you know extended so i don't know i think they have an opportunity to knock it out of the park as we would say i so i hope so but it also depends on getting the licensing you have to have the delorean in there Yep. You have to have Michael J. Fox. That's one of the biggest complaints of the Data East one. Yeah, you have to have Michael J. Fox. Christopher Lloyd, you don't have to have Christopher Lloyd because I know that there was a licensing issue on the Adams family with his likeness and Fester. Yep. On the virtual pinball machine. So they actually had to change that so it no longer resembled Christopher Lloyd. but you have to have Michael J. Fox you just have to yeah and there are other things in there the two things you have to have Fox you have to have the DeLorean well and this is what's funny is like I know that they mentioned this like people have mentioned this last year but when are we going to get to the point where we're actually going to see titles that aren't being rehashed that's already been done before like Turtles had already been done by Data East you had Avengers have already been done by Stern I mean they're obviously all better upgrades of those titles but Back to the Future has already been done before we know that Godzilla is coming because spooky pinball was pretty forthcoming with Stern getting that license anyway I mean whether or not they actually make it or they're sitting on it we just know they have the license because that was public airing but regardless like there's a lot of pinball machines that are coming back out there technically rehash i mean jurassic park is another data east rehash so is this just easy low-hanging fruit or is this this is the prime time to do it it's the prime time to do it okay it's it's the dad rock stuff where um all the people who are growing up and that is their nostalgic sweet spot is arcades and 80s movies and that's why guys in their 40s and 50s are feeling like you know what now i can i can afford some of these toys and so they're starting to do their own stuff so this is the stuff they're going to collect um that's that's probably actually why beetles didn't sell as well as it could have because it was aiming for the 60s to 70s world even though it's a great game well and i even talked to operators and they say that turtles is the best earner on location i mean these are just also still relevant though i the they have been able to re to ride that theme on nickelodeon multiple times yep so it's you know it's still there. But yeah, the reason why they're milking these 80s themes is because the people who are buying it are in that demographic. Yep. Well, I think we've touched on that long enough. I'm excited regardless to see what happens. We don't know for sure if it's back to the future, but listening to the rumblings, it sounds like that's what it is. And we're excited. I'm always excited to see a new pinball machine yeah so no absolutely let's move on to the last one this is what people showed up for the uh we should do i've been watching a lot of wrestling movies like we've been watching young rock on nbc which is fantastic if you have not watched that you should go watch if you're a fan of dwayne the rock johnson are you serious there's a show called young rock yeah so it's about his it's he says it's pretty accurate besides the stuff that happens in the future it's all based on like the rock running as president and he's rehashing the stories as a child to relate to the American public that he is like them, essentially. And so we watched that. I watched Fighting With My Family. If you haven't watched that one, that's a really cool one about Paige. She was in WWE. She talks about how she got involved, and she's from London. And Dwayne The Rock Johnson was actually in London recording Fast in the Curious Six, and he had saw a local news article on this, and that's why he decided to make this movie.
    57:30
    It's fantastic. So that's why I'm like, when we were on Pinball Players, and I was like, dude, I've had an itch. I was like, that's why we should do the intro for you versus Robert Mueller.
    57:44
    Okay, so where do we start? So, Josh, set this up. I sent you the release that was sent out to the people who ordered the game and they're not releasing anything publicly. They've stopped talking to anybody except for the people who they have the money from. Yeah. And so they sent this release to them. And why don't you go ahead and recap this gem of a PR release? I'm going just to kind of boil this down. I don't want to read this all. it's essentially saying like like scott said we are no longer telling the public any of this information we're going to give it directly to the people that bought these games the first paragraph is stating they still haven't got their uo licensing for the u.s and the ce licensing outside the u.s is still becoming a problem with them there's at this point they're thinking they're at least a month out if not more so we're looking four to six weeks they're not a month out they're not it's just they're not i'm sorry but you should have had this done like what were you doing for the last three years okay seriously okay i'm sorry i'm i can't even get past the first paragraph okay if you come out swinging like i'm gonna do things like stern and i'm gonna be competing with them and we're gonna be doing a faster better and having better uh you know we're having cheaper games and we're just gonna flood the market and take over this is like figuring out that you have to put a third prong on the plug.
    59:11
    This is the stuff that they want. So when you buy it, it doesn't burn down your house. That's why homebrews don't do this because it costs too much money. You're like, well, if you're tinkering on it, fine. But if you are planning on selling thousands of machines, then you have to make sure that they are safe. and there are these licensing regulations that if you want to stamp on your box that this is safe and yes we've gone through the certification of it and it's not going to shock you as soon as you hit it then that's what you do and guess what stern does this four times a year like this is not one thing my understanding though it's per model so with stern yes with stern no sorry like Not per theme. It would be per the Spike 2 system would have to be UL listed. Okay. But everything that has Spike 2 is UL listed. Okay, fine. But you have to do this. This is part of your job in making something. I mean, it's just such a clown show that they don't even – it's like a kid who's smoking pot and saying, dude do you know what'd be really cool if we made a pinball machine do you know how to do that no but it's totally easy right it's like a ball and a plunger and a flipper we're cool what you have to have two flippers okay fine we'll put two flippers in there maybe some pop bumpers or something or we'll call them jets because that sounds cool but seriously the fact that they are It is beyond comical at this point, just the ineptitude that it trickles top down.
    60:59
    And it just blows me away that that's the first thing. And so, okay, so we're going to jump into the next paragraph. We continue to appreciate many of the vendors being able to get timely stuff out to us. Unfortunately, some vendors are having issues. Guess what? Your company is having issues. You can't make a stupid machine. Okay? And if you're having a hard time, you can't even eke out. So they were planning on doing 160. So they had orders for 130. So they were planning on building 30 extra games. And now they have scrapped that too. Okay, so we are just making 130 games because guess what? Nothing ever breaks in a pinball machine. So these are perfect. Yeah. I this is a ball being catapulted around inside this this little glass case with plastic parts and rubber bands. Like, what do you think is going to happen to all this stuff?
    62:00
    Well, and what's weird to me is at the end of that paragraph, it says it doesn't make sense now to make more Raza machines than what we're ordered. Because if you remember originally from the release that was two months ago, it said we've had 130 on order, but we're going to make 160. yeah and with this paragraph it's saying like we don't have enough parts we can't get the parts that are ordered for the 130 so we're going to just do the 130 and call it quits for the day okay josh so i i'm gonna give you a quick economics lesson okay okay okay if i'm gonna build a car okay how about this i'm gonna build a stealth bomber how much does one stealth bomber cost okay i haven't a clue these are made up numbers okay so don't go and google these cost a billion dollars to make a billion one stealth bomber okay okay do you know how much it costs to make two stealth bombers i would assume two billion 1.2 billion do you know how much it costs to do three 1.25 billion because what you have is you have economies of scale okay there's a reason why toyota is able or ford or whatever is able to sell cars based on very little um upfront cost because it's spread over thousands of models okay yeah so i'll do the pinball analogy josh how much does the star wars license cost a million dollars okay yeah so how much does it cost to make one Star Wars pinball machine? A million dollars plus 3,500 parts. Okay. How much does it cost to make two? How much does it cost to make three? Exactly. Okay. I get what you're saying. I'm getting it. And so if you have no clue about manufacturing economies of scale, and you think you're going to save money by making 130 machines, as opposed to making a thousand machines if your machine's good you will sell a thousand machines yeah you will but the fact that they have no faith in this pos retro 90s feeling game that's not even that good and they're only trying to run away from it so fast that they don't even want to make the more than what is contractually obligated here's the thing i don't think it's that i think the problem is Deep Root has been around for at least three years now.
    64:37
    Robert Mueller came out swinging with Head to Head and on Eclectic Gamers and was very bold and upfront.
    64:50
    And at this time, when you listen to those interviews for the first time, there is almost a sincerity there from Robert Mueller that you believe what he is saying. and as time went on we gave them time we gave them a year we gave them because they hadn't taken money now they've taken money in orders and then a year later they're like the five days of deeper is coming so we're like oh we finally get to see this and then that gets canceled you know we're going to do that next year and so two years go by and covid happens which is understandable No, no. COVID rescued them. Do you think that they were ready for Texas Pinball Festival, the five days of Deep Root, before COVID happened?
    65:40
    So my point being, no, they weren't. No, they were not. There's no chance. That's like saying, oh, I was driving in to turn in the turnpaper. It was totally done, teacher. but guess what i got in a car accident so i couldn't actually make it there but i totally have it and a year later the teacher's like wait did are you ever going to turn that paper so but the point i'm trying to make here is is we believe these people to so much because we thought they knew what they were talking about all the fancy words the quad assembly the we're going to pump it out. We're going to do it bigger, better. And so we're like, fine, you're not taking money. I'm interested. I want to see what you produce. And so as time has went on and they've backtracked and they've backtracked and they've lied and said, Hey, I didn't say that, but you're on record. It's right there. Yeah, exactly. Red flags start going up left and right. Boom, boom, boom right so the biggest red flag to me is when you have six industry professionals quote unquote come into your place of business and then when they go to leave your whole operation comes to a screeching halt where we were going to release these were we're not going to that's actually the bad part they weren't professionals yes they were these are people that have never built in the industry yes in that in the pinball media yes but these are people that have never built a pinball machine though so you know okay actually that's the one thing they have in common with robert muller that's terrible yes i agree but my point being is that's when not little tiny lawn red flags come screaming up that's when someone sends up the red flag on a on a flagpole and puts lights on it. And it's so bad that you have to NDA those six people that came to your building. They're not allowed to say anything, but whatever they've said has halted your operations. You need to take a better look. I think that they have shot themselves so many times in the foot that when it finally came to orders, people didn't trust them. Shocker. Now, if this happened a year ago, let's say COVID didn't happen. I know people wish it never did. Let's say COVID never happened. Let's say everything's actually on track. Let's say Deep Root unveils Texas Pinball Festival 2020. It's been two years at this point that they've been talking and saying, hey, we're going to do this. And they finally unveil and they're ready. They've got games in boxes. I guarantee that 130 would have been over 1,000. People are dying for a John Papaduke game. People are dying for something different.
    68:34
    People are frustrated, not to take a stab at Stern or JJP, but there are underlining issues that aren't getting resolved with these companies. And when someone comes out and says, hey, we're going to do it better than what Stern's doing, and we're going to do it better than what JJP is doing. Let's just be honest. It's the play field issues.
    68:56
    When someone hears that, that's music to their ears. Like they want a game that they don't have to take the glass off of. It's plug and play, which you're not going to get with pinball. Like people wake up. Doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. Even Williams games. I know everyone covets them, but they came off the line having to be worked on. So let's say 2020 TPF games are in boxes. I just, I think the problem is, is there's so many red flags at this point that I am actually shocked that they were able to convince 130 people that they were going to do this. And I think they had the momentum. They had everything right. They were telling us the sweet little nothings we wanted to hear. They were showing us the designing team we all wanted. You know, Dennis Norman, Barry Osler, John Papaduke. I mean, these are big names in the industry.
    69:52
    And so it's like it all felt right. But as time went on, it just got worse and worse and worse. And so I truly feel terrible for those that decide to gamble, take a chance on this company because I feel like we are at Zidware 3.0. We're not at Zidware. We're actually looking at Skip B right now. Dude. It is so bad that – so I actually read a book over the last month. It was Malcolm Gladwell's book. It was talking to strangers, and it talks about the truth default that we have in that – and it wasn't really saying it was good or bad because on some level, you have to accept what someone is telling you is true. But he went through and talked about all these instances where people ended up being like a big spy or even talked about Bernie Madoff, and he talked about all these things. and he said there were red flags and experienced people had questions about these things but the truth default made them rationalize why it wasn what they seeing And this is the you know this is the the children fairy tale the emperor new clothes. And if, if you don't know it, it's a fantastic story. And I think about it all the time where I'll sum it up. It's a guy who comes in to the King and he says, I can make this magical clothes for you that the only people that can see it are wise and so he pretends to make this clothes and so the guys so the king is wearing underwear and of course everybody who looks at him sees underwear but no one wants to say it because they don't want to look foolish yeah and until finally a child so he's walking outside and the child looks and says hey he's not wearing any clothes and then everyone's like it kind of breaks the spell the the collusion that everybody has to say, no, no, no, it's totally fine. He's wearing something. I can see it. I'm wise.
    71:59
    So this is the challenge that we have with Deep Root. There's not four flags. The entire company is a giant red flag. The entire company. I'm sorry. And I have said, I hope to be loud wrong. I hope they pull a Gene Cunningham out of their hat And they make 150 or 130 of these games like Big Bang Bar and prove me wrong that they can do it. But Gene Cunningham still lost money on the deal. He did. He still – it pretty much bankrupted him after he did it. It bankrupted him, but he was committed to do it, and so he did it. So I feel that this is going to be that side project that eventually is it's so far out there that it's just never going to get done. Yeah.
    72:52
    Let's let's. So the third paragraph kind of reiterates what it says in the second one, that they're not going to be making more machines past the 130. They're kind of waiting on parts. There's no there won't be any updates till mid May is what it says. But here's the thing that just boggles me. Do you think there'll be an update? I don't. Well, here's the thing. This is what blows my mind. Let me read this verbatim. I'm not going to do this verbatim. They're going to offer financial relief to those games that were bought. No, no. If there are delays. I am going to do this verbatim because it's so ludicrous. Nobody actually with any sort of PR department would write this. With current lead times on the certification and parts, there will not be any significant updates in the next six weeks. Our goal is to update. Our goal, by the way, I would add parenthetically, well, it's been their goal to make machines, is to update in mid-May. And at that time, if games are not immediately ready to start shipping, to offer some financial relief for the delays in the form of a return of store credit, discount of the Raza purchase, or allow customers to rescind Raza purchases for a refund with nominal interest. Okay, I want to break this down for two seconds. Return of store credit. What store credit? What are you guys selling? Yeah. Raza is the very first product. You want a magic girl? Like that doesn't shoot? I know Kerry Hardy has already said this, but I totally agree with what he said. There is nothing else you're selling. I don't want to buy $6,000 worth of pin pods. Are you guys even pushing those out the door yet? There is nothing else you guys are selling. Yeah. The warehouse is empty. And guess what? There's no warehouse. And if you're not pushing out Raza's, I guarantee the ship is halfway under the water. No one else is going to want store credit. A discount of Raza purchase. Okay. So they're already probably losing money at this point because there's no chance 130 machines is going to make up for three years of lead time. So what does that mean, though? Like they're going to give you part of your money back? You know what? It's probably an IKEA game. They send it to you and you assemble it yourself. And then you go and get your CE certification and the UL certification. You get it yourself. That's part of the fun. Okay. No, no. This is the one that blows my mind, right? Allow customers to rescind their purchase for a refund with nominal interest. Oh, okay. Excuse me. So is it negative interest?
    75:30
    This is how I took it. And Robert Mueller is the lawyer, so he can educate us on what is said. But my thought process is you bought Raza for – what is it? $6,000 on the pro? Sure. Okay. We're going to go with $6,000 because I can't remember exactly. okay i i'm going to give you a refund but there's interest involved in that so i'm going to give you five thousand dollars back because you bought the game but you no longer want it so we're going to take a little bit off the top because of you know that i don't know what game we're holding on to it's like like is like it's a like a restocking fee that's exactly what i was thinking because i wonder what the i wonder what the the limitations on nominal interest because i guarantee they're not paying you a percentage back you're not going to get uh like 110 percent of your down payment yeah i just that one blows my mind unless you're going to give me more money like i'll cancel my rasa and you pay me seven thousand dollars yeah or ten thou i just but a restocking fee is exactly what that sounds like to me so you're telling me i took a chance on your company. You're not delivering on your product. You took my money. And after all that, you're going to shortchange me when you give me my money back for refund. Oh no, that's not happening. Okay. So I just Googled this and invest a tote investopedia. Okay. What is nominal interest rate? It says nominal interest rate refers to the interest rate before taking inflation into account.
    77:09
    So they're expecting the inflation on their machines to go up? I don't know. Normal interest rate refers to the interest rate for taking inflation into the account, the federal funds rate, the interest rate. So that sounds like to me, because when you originally purchased the game, the pre-orders were $6,000, but then it was like, we're going to have an extra 30 games and they're going to be $10,000 a pop. So maybe they're saying, we'll give you back your money for the $6,000 instead of the $10,000. I don't. I have no idea. Like, okay, that could be taken two ways. That could be taken, well, the interest rate is 1%, so we're going to give you that back. Okay, that's not going to happen, by the way. I've seen into the future, and I've seen how this ends, because it's ended this way for about five other attempted startup companies. That never happens. All righty. Last paragraph pretty much just says those that are on the mail list that are not Rasa customers are not going to be getting those extra machines because they're not going to have them. If people cancel, then you might have the opportunity to buy a machine because we'll make the 130, but it's going to be first come, first serve.
    78:15
    I would love to hear from anybody who actually has the money down and still is planning on keeping their money in because it's obviously someone who has more money than they care about, and they're taking that long shot that it's going to be made. Well, what's weird to me is it says that they're going to offer these at the original price. So why the heck did you even jump the price by $3,000 for those extra 30 units? I have no idea. It's just so confusing. That's the problem. Like you look at the – do you know what it's like? It's like listening to my child describe a story where – okay, and I was there. And then the dragon came, and the dragon had like a princess outfit on, and there was like unicorns and sparkles. And then we were in the desert, and it's just non-sequitur. There's so much stuff going on that doesn't follow any timeline of a reasonable business.
    79:22
    So this is my thought process. This is the gospel according to Josh. This is not 100% accurate. But considering the people that have reached out to us and saying, hey, you're pretty dead on with your description on what's going on at Deep Root because they've seen behind the curtain, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is what happened. Robert Mueller loved pinball. He's said that emphatically on This Week in Pinball. He loves pinball.
    79:50
    And he saw an opportunity to get into a market that seems like it is booming and it has room for growth.
    79:57
    He has some money, so he figured, hey, I'm going to hire these designers that I love, Barry Ousler, Dennis Norman, anyone that's willing to accept the call that I send out. So he hires J-Pop. He hires these other designers, and he figures they've made pinball games. All I've got to do is throw money at this, right? I'm going to throw money here in Texas where I'm at. So first year's down. He's liking what he sees. He's starting to see product, and he's just kind of let the kids play off on their own, right? He goes back to work where he needs to be taking care of his law firm business. And the second year rolls around, and maybe Pinbar popped up at this time, and he said, this is a great innovation. Let's keep going with this. He's getting starstruck by the fact that all these innovations are coming, and this is going to redefine Pinball. We're going to make money just off the patents alone. And this is a guy that's a lawyer, so patents are his bread and butter. This is a fantastic idea. And he gets just more and more roped into this. Well, the problem is the public starts demanding, hey, we need to start seeing product. You're talking this up. You're excited about this, so obviously something's going right. We want to see as well.
    81:15
    And so Robert starts visiting the factory more and more because deadlines are showing up, but nothing is being met. and he starts getting frustrated because you don't have a George Gomez. You don't have – You don't have a general. A David Fix.
    81:33
    And these kids – I keep calling them kids because this is – I relate this to a playground, right? Like dads come home. Yeah, but I wouldn't say – I would say that is undermining the professionality of these people. The people who he hired, they actually are professionals on that level, And they are probably working at what they are told to do. But what he doesn't have is any sort of idea how to manufacture anything. So you don't have a manager to your workers. Let's put it that way. You show up, your workers aren't doing their job because they're being left to their own devices.
    82:09
    I would say they're doing what you hired them to do. That's what I would say. But no one's making these games. He doesn't know how to – he hasn't transitioned from concept to manufacturing. and that's the hardest part.
    82:22
    So now he is at a point where the thing that he's throwing money at, he's running out of money. And so he's got to start making decisions of, if I want to keep this going, I've got to start making money somehow. And that's entered this year, the last six months. And that's the decision for the pre-orders. Even though you said, I'm never going to take pre-orders, the decision for all this other stuff that you just have said you'd never, ever do. And the problem is, is you figured out that you've dug the hole so deep, but there's – the only person to blame is yourself. And I feel like this is – this could either be the closing chapter for Deep Root or we're going to see it drawn out like highway pinball.
    83:09
    And it just – it's sad. It's sad that a love for the hobby – because I guarantee that he loved this hobby three years ago. That's why he did this. I think right now he just hates it. I bet he doesn't go and look at a pinball machine anymore because it just brings so much angst from what has happened. Okay, I'll tell you what the next press release is.
    83:37
    Due to COVID and the ongoing challenges of manufacturing machines, we have decided that we are going to close up shop and we are no longer going to pursue deep root pinball we thank all the fans and all the uh all the support that we received over the years and the people who believed in us unfortunately these were situations outside of our control and so we unfortunately we are a victim of covid and this is going to um you know stay safe have fun at pinball all the best bobby two socks yeah if it's not that it is going to be an on-running story of of trying to buy time to pay back the customers that invest now this this is a this will be this will be a bankruptcy this is we're getting closer to the event horizon in the black hole where everything just gets disillusioned and dismembered it's just not going to happen there's no chance i think the other thing that really hurt them is dennis norman left before they took pre-orders as well i think that's that was kind of the nail in the coffin that was as dennis creasel said on on the pinball show that was the canary in the cold right that that yeah so here's here's the question how is this different than highway pinball um the only difference between this and highway pinball is highway pinball sold a game yeah everything else is exactly the same exactly and it's going to be it's going to be an interesting part of history that the problem is is this is strike three for papaduke right like you made did where persona non grata there's no chance yeah i just i don't see and ironically do you know who comes out looking the best from all this american pinball yeah american pinball because they saw the potential in John Papaduke and they said, okay, let's jump in. Let's resurrect this magic girl thing and let's make pinball. This sounds awesome. And they got in and they immediately saw what a dumpster fire Papaduke was. And he said, no, you're out. We are going to retool this. And wait, how long did it take for them to get Houdini up? I thought it was only like five months wasn't it was pretty quick as soon as Joe Balser was on they knocked it out yeah so if you want to see how it was done right look at American Pinball whether or not you love the games I think they're a different set of games and it's fun if you're looking for a different flavor that's awesome they have three very different games and they've made three different games after they cut bait with uh with john poppadoog but ever since that they are sinking like the titanic right now and guess what they're playing near my god to be with the four dudes in tuxedos yep i just man it's it's a sad story yeah really it's it the i just don't see anything else happening at this point it's just it's it's done yeah And that's the problem is that I really wanted it to work out, but I felt like I was the only one looking at the emperor's new clothes and saying he's naked.
    87:11
    I think a lot of people in this industry has felt that there's just too many red flags, and there has been. Yeah, it's wishful thinking is what it is. And maybe, sadly, this is the closing chapter and… It's done.
    87:27
    But what's the future for pinball then? I think it's unaffected I actually think it's unaffected so you think that these companies that come in with starry eyes and stuff like that I know that we've talked about this in the past JJP did not have a great start American Pinball was a decent start but they tripped over some hurdles as well Spooky had a if you haven't watched things go bump in the night the Spooky Pinball story I have so much respect Charlie Emery KT, Bug, your family is awesome. If you haven't watched that documentary, it'll give you a better respect. I don't care what you think of their product.
    88:11
    They did it right. But my point being is a lot of these companies that are permanent fixtures now in the pinball industry, the way that they started isn't defining how they're operating now, except for like Spooky did a really good job, and they limited themselves. If you're a pinball company, you're trying to get in, like Haggis, you guys are doing a good job, I feel like. Your product is properly priced. You're trying to resolve issues that we're seeing in the pinball industry. My point being is this whole we're going to churn out 1,000 machines first year or we're going to start producing like Stern, it's not going to happen. my recommendation is if we start seeing companies trying to make their way into the pinball industry here in the next few years you're gonna have to put your own machine you're gonna have to put your own money in and then hopefully sell a machine yeah and like i said that's why i admire charlie and katie emory from spooky pinball because they ate like box macaroni and cheese for that first year that's all they had in their house that's still awesome mac and cheese it's It is, but they remember being like, what are we having for dinner? Oh, never mind. We don't have to ask. And it's because they went on with a business style that suited them, and it still suits them. They are truly boutique pinball. They sell at most right now is $750 for machine units. That's Rick and Morty. And so I just, I feel like if you're going to want to come into this industry, you, you're not going to start off at Stern levels. There is no way. And anyone out there that is listening to this, I promise you, there is no company that's going to come in at Stern levels. If they tell you that they are lying. That's a red flag.
    90:05
    Stern is a, it's a manufacturing machine. It is a juggernaut. That that has been able to finally tune their process and so they can fly through so many games a day. So.
    90:21
    So I guess I guess what I'm trying to say, let's let's wrap this up is just deeper. It's probably going to be gone before we know it.
    90:29
    It was it was quite the fryer cracker gave us a big boom. Nothing ever else happened. Yeah, I'd like to say it was a fun ride, but after a while it just felt like it went to the weeds so fast. It was like a drag racer that popped the tire and immediately flew into the stands. Yeah. Man, I really just kind of dragged on. I apologize. We kind of rambled. Yeah, that's okay. We actually have a – so we do have a big interview coming up. We're trying to nail down the logistics, but it's taking a little longer to find the right time to record that. And so that's why we did this, just to recap and want to talk about different things. but anyway um it's hope you enjoyed it uh we enjoyed talking pinball and if you have feedback i really i i sincerely want to know what other people think about deep root i sincerely want to know like am i am i uh am i just this evil troll out there because it seems that i i don't i don't like being this guy but i just i have a hard time having any positive vibes for this company well that's what sucks too is like we we've tried to be positive i mean i don't think we've said really a negative thing about deep group up deep root deep root yeah deep root up until the they took pre-orders and we had zach and dennis you know i i think once we actually gave them the huge benefit of the doubt until they had the the baby launch with the six the deep six and And then they pulled the plug. And that's when I just said, okay, you're done. Yep. Yeah. And so it's hard to be positive with them. So also let us know, Back to the Future. Is this something you're interested in? Again, we have no idea. That seems to be the rumored title.
    92:19
    But, you know, let us know. And, again, congratulations to all the Twippy winners and all the Twippy nominees. I mean, seriously, that says something right there too. So, anyway, we hope to have something coming up here in the next – well, we will have something in the next two weeks. but we're hoping it'll be this awesome guest. So we'll, we'll let you know.
    92:39
    Again, if you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast. You can find us at facebook.com slash loser kid pinball. Same with Instagram and Twitter. If you want to get ahold of us the old fashioned way, loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com or do me a favor. I know you're listening right now. If you're driving pull over, if you're sitting at home listening to us while you're trying to work sneak away onto your browser go to twitch.tv slash loser kid pinball hit that follow button i'm not on a super tight schedule at this point but we're gonna just have some fun with it i'm not a fantastic pinball player so you can harass me whatever you want to do we want to get to that 50 followers i think we're 20 right now, so move around there. Go on, hit follow. It helps us out. We're still going to give you great content here on podcasts. We're still aiming for every two weeks. I know it's been... I mean, technically it was only two weeks because we did the Pinball Players podcast, but for us, it's been a little more than that. I do apologize. We have some really fantastic interviews lined up. There's one that Scott doesn't even know that I've been working on that I'm very excited about. I hope it comes to fruition.
    93:53
    Keep your fingers crossed, guys. gals so all righty scott okay all right see you in two weeks be excellent play lots of pinball shut up and sit down
    94:24
    We'll see you next time.