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The Pinball Show Ep 152 BONUS: Inside Pinball Manufacturing w/Greg Bone: What Companies Do It The Best, What Titles Can Be Problems, & More

Pinball Show Patreon Feed·podcast_episode·24m 53s·analyzed·May 9, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Tech expert Greg Bone rates pinball manufacturers on quality, reliability, and support—declaring the hobby's current state the best ever.

Summary

Greg Bone from Flippin' Out Pinball provides an extensive technical and operational review of pinball manufacturing quality across multiple manufacturers. He discusses how Stern's NodeBoard system, once controversial, is now widely accepted; praises manufacturers like Barrels of Fun and CGC for reliability; identifies Spooky, Jersey Jack, and Pinball Brothers as having improved significantly; and highlights persistent issues with certain manufacturers' customer support and communication. Overall, he conveys confidence that the current era represents one of the best times to purchase new pinball machines due to improved quality control and responsive manufacturer support.

Key Claims

  • NodeBoard systems at Stern are now proven to be excellent, a dramatic reversal from 4-5 years ago when community opinion was negative

    high confidence · Greg Bone discussing the evolution of Stern's NodeBoard technology and community perception shift

  • Less than 5% of Flippin' Out Pinball customers feel comfortable soldering transistors on older circuit boards themselves

    high confidence · Greg Bone, citing direct customer experience at Flippin' Out Pinball

  • Stern games are the easiest to deal with out of the box among all manufacturers

    high confidence · Greg Bone stating from operational experience at Flippin' Out Pinball

  • Barrels of Fun games have experienced virtually no issues other than minor cosmetic damage in shipping and occasional servo problems in toppers

    high confidence · Greg Bone discussing Barrels of Fun machines from his stock

  • Jersey Jack Pinball games have improved significantly, with Elton John requiring minimal fixes after initial data cable issues

    high confidence · Greg Bone comparing JJP's current reliability to past reputation

  • CGC games are built like tanks with high durability at high-play locations; Pulp Fiction had early trough board issues but otherwise performs well

    high confidence · Greg Bone reviewing CGC reliability from operational experience

  • Spooky's Scooby-Doo had significant switch issues early on; Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Looney Tunes have had fewer quality control problems

    high confidence · Greg Bone discussing specific Spooky titles and manufacturing improvements

  • Haggis Pinball uses superior bill of materials (equal or better than CGC) but has experienced playfield bubbling/delamination issues in shipping and very poor communication with customers

    high confidence · Greg Bone discussing Haggis-specific manufacturing and communication challenges

Notable Quotes

  • “four years ago, five years ago, people would have written in on their quills and everything because...they would have said, screw you, Greg Bone, you don't know what you're talking about. NodeBoards are the devil. But I think the majority would actually agree with you now.”

    Host (not Greg Bone)@ 0:42 — Illustrates dramatic reversal in community sentiment about Stern's NodeBoard technology

  • “getting a pinball person to even solder a transistor nowadays, I would say maybe less than 5% of our customers would feel comfortable doing that”

    Greg Bone@ 1:32 — Justifies shift toward plug-and-play board systems and validates manufacturer design philosophy

  • “I can think of one. Subpar. I'm not saying they're not subpar. Where's my power supply, Greg?”

    Host@ 2:57 — Host implies one manufacturer has poor support/communication; Greg acknowledges and somewhat retracts his blanket praise

  • “You should never, as a manufacturer, give the excuse of, I wish we could give you this part for your machine that's two months old and has never worked. I want to give you that part, but we're too busy putting those into other games that aren't selling.”

    Greg Bone@ 17:02 — Strongest criticism of a specific (unnamed) manufacturer's customer service and parts allocation priorities

  • “I had to dig a little deeper and really that's what greg bones there for ladies and gentlemen this is kind of unacceptable sort of thing dig and he will advocate for you”

    Host (Zach)@ 17:55 — Highlights Greg's role as customer advocate and his willingness to escalate to manufacturer management

  • “I almost have seen no games that we can't get working. It's just, you have to be willing to troubleshoot.”

    Greg Bone@ 19:12 — Conveys confidence in modern reliability and that most issues are fixable with proper troubleshooting

Entities

Greg BonepersonZach MinneypersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyBarrels of FuncompanySpooky PinballcompanyChicago Gaming Company (CGC)companyPinball Brotherscompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Haggis Pinball experiencing playfield bubbling/lifting issues during shipping, requiring full playfield swaps or warranty returns

    high · Greg Bone reports multiple instances of plexi lifting from playfield surface, comparing to legacy Stern/JJP practices of full playfield replacement

  • ?

    product_concern: Servo-based components in toppers (Scooby-Doo, others) experiencing failures; servo systems inherently finicky across manufacturers

    high · Multiple mentions of servo issues in Scooby-Doo topper; Greg notes servos are problematic in general across RC and pinball applications

  • ?

    code_update: Stern NodeBoard 8 and 9 boards underwent design changes resulting in dramatic reduction in failure rates

    medium · Greg states he sees 'almost no NodeBoard 8 and 9 failures at all' and suspects design change, but uncertain of specifics

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community sentiment on Stern's NodeBoard system has inverted from highly negative (4-5 years ago) to widely positive consensus

    high · Host notes that 4-5 years ago community criticism was intense; Greg confirms modern majority acceptance

  • ?

    industry_signal: Multiple manufacturers (JJP, Spooky, Barrels of Fun, CGC, Pinball Brothers) showing improved customer service responsiveness and parts availability

    high · Greg systematically praises manufacturer tech teams' responsiveness; Stern parts team specifically noted as 'stepped up their game'

Topics

Manufacturer quality control and reliability across different pinball companiesprimaryNodeBoard technology evolution and community perception reversalprimaryCustomer service and technical support responsiveness by manufacturersprimarySpecific game issues by manufacturer (Scooby-Doo, Elton John, Pulp Fiction, etc.)primaryParts availability and warranty support processesprimaryPlayfield manufacturing defects and delamination issuessecondaryServo reliability and topper-related component failuressecondaryDistributor role in customer advocacy and troubleshootingsecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.78)— Overall optimistic about pinball manufacturing quality and support, but with significant criticism of one (unnamed) manufacturer's customer service and communication. Greg expresses confidence and trust in most manufacturers' improvement, though acknowledges Haggis Pinball's serious communication issues. Tone is professional but candid about problems.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.075

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. Thanks again for the ongoing support as a Pinball Show Club member. Enjoy this exclusive TPS content and make sure to visit the Pinball Show Club Discord to chat about the bonus material. Yeah, and I would say four years ago when you say that the NodeBoard system is fantastic,
0:34
four years ago, five years ago, people would have written in on their quills and everything because it was four or five years ago, and they would have said, screw you, Greg Bone, you don't know what you're talking about. NodeBoards are the devil. But I think the majority would actually agree with you now. The NodeBoard system utilized by Stern Pinball and even some other manufacturers with the Node systems is proving to be pretty awesome. It is, and I understand. Especially the universal stuff where you can swap them, 8, 9 and stuff. Yeah, and I guess, you know, let's go from a cost perspective.
1:05
You know, if you were an older guy, Bally Williams, or you were an older tech back in the day, you know, obviously a lot of those guys have skill to pull a board off it, you know, re-solder, you know, a new transistor. Yeah, something on there. All that's fine. But, you know, in today's age, especially, I can solder, obviously, but I'm not going to do any board work. No. Nor do I want to pull a board like that. Now, again, that was more cost-effective for a $0.39 part than what it is to replace a $300 board. Well, honestly, getting a pinball person to even solder a transistor nowadays,
1:38
I would say maybe less than 5% of our customers would feel comfortable doing that. Do you think it's fair? Yeah, very much so. And with as many new people as what we have going into the hobby, uh it really they they were to me it was very forward thinking yeah we need to plug and play stuff yes yes and no matter cost just the simplicity to be able to do that it's just astronomical so of all the stern games certain is probably the easiest to deal with um and out

A manufacturer refused to provide a replacement power supply for a DOA game because they claimed all supplies were allocated to new production, leading to a $1,500-$2,000 loss for Flippin' Out Pinball

high confidence · Greg Bone recounting a specific customer service failure involving an unnamedmanufacturer (implied Deep Root or similar based on context)

  • Stern's NodeBoard 8 and 9 boards, which were previously problematic, have been redesigned and now show almost no failures

    medium confidence · Greg Bone noting a shift in failure rates without confirming exact design changes

  • “I think now is one of the best times ever. Well, there you have it, people. If you're looking for a brand new pinball machine, make sure you always go through flipping out pinball because it's not just me, it's not just Nicole, but you're getting a piece of bone with it too.”

    Greg Bone / Host (Zach)@ 24:40 — Core thesis: current era is optimal for new machine purchases; frames Flippin' Out Pinball's value proposition

    • Haggis Pinball
    company
    Ice Cold Beercompany
    Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
    Rebeccaperson
    AJperson
    Tomperson
    Scooby-Doogame
    Looney Tunesgame
    Texas Chainsaw Massacregame
    Elton Johngame
    Pulp Fictiongame
    Aliensgame
    Ripley's Believe It or Not!game
    NodeBoardproduct
    ?

    business_signal: Current pinball manufacturing represents highest confidence level for new machine purchases in Greg's tenure

    high · Greg: 'I think now is one of the best times ever' and 'no hesitation to buy any pinball machine, really, for the most part'

  • ?

    product_concern: One major manufacturer failed to provide replacement parts (power supply) for DOA game and prioritized new production over warranty support, resulting in $1,500-$2,000 loss for distributor

    high · Detailed account from Greg and Zach of power supply refusal, communication breakdown, and eventual escalation to manufacturer management

  • ?

    industry_signal: Haggis Pinball experiencing systemic communication issues with customers and distributors; poor responsiveness despite premium manufacturing

    high · Greg: 'communication has been honestly piss poor at times from Haggis Pinball' and 'what people in the threads talk about'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Shipping remains a major source of pinball damage; more problematic than manufacturing defects in some cases

    high · Greg: 'we probably have more problems with shipping' than manufacturing; shipping issues more frequent than playfield problems

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Flippin' Out Pinball acquiring new manufacturer partnerships soon, expanding service offerings

    high · Zach mentions 'we've got another manufacturer we're going to be selling for, another manufacturer, too, here soon'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Manufacturer parts allocation strategy created tension: prioritizing new game production over warranty parts for existing machines

    high · Manufacturer excuse: 'all of our power supplies right now are going into brand new games' for warranty claim on DOA unit

  • ?

    technology_signal: Industry moving toward plug-and-play board replacement systems; soldering skills no longer expected from customer base (<5% capable/willing)

    high · Greg: 'less than 5% of our customers would feel comfortable doing that' re: soldering; validates manufacturer shift to modular boards

    • 2:14
    of the box they're probably the best i would say from my experience yes i totally agree and not to give it to any manufacturer you know again i could probably rate i won't from you know most problematic to the least yeah to the least problematic but something hands down across the board is every manufacturer that i deal with um whether you go all the way to something like pinball brothers or something every manufacturer i deal with has been absolutely amazing about you know just fixing
    2:47
    and repairing and helping people troubleshoot their games. Wait a minute. You don't say, but think about that statement just a little bit. I can think of one. Subpar. I'm not saying they're not subpar. Where's my power supply, Greg? Oh, I did skip something. I forgot about them because we don't sell many of their games. Actually, there is one. Okay, that's it. Yes. I apologize to the entire public. So you're going to give Stern a thumbs up. Nicely done over there, the engineering team at Stern Pimble and the tech team.
    3:21
    Yeah. Barrels of fun. You've told me that those games have been tanks so far. Oh, I've had absolutely no issues. The only issues that I have literally had out of that game has been a few minor cosmetic things that probably happened in shipping. And then there were a few issues with literally just the board for the topper. nothing with the game there has been absolutely no issues that's coming on our end with i saw on pin side a couple people had some servo uh servos go bad and they just you know with the
    3:55
    little the little characters yeah and they swap and they're good to go so that's and servos are finicky anyways man i do rc cars and stuff and servos can be a little problematic anyways like uh i don't care how good you get or what you get they can still be a little problem yeah jgp's got much better over the years i always told people out of the box you're gonna have a little bit more tinkering on jjps but now yeah uh elton john's we've had a lot go out and not a lot of issues with elton john at all so that's good no yeah a few things few data cable issues with that you know again simple things you know that's the thing is people come in they think oh my god my
    4:27
    game is just disastrous this isn't working and this is doing this and this is that and you know again when we have a lot of brand new people into the hobby um they just don't know really at all what's going on and my favorite thing out of new people is i've got a lemon i've got a lemon oh my game is just doing all these crazy things when are we going to determine this illumine it's like not even close it's two switches brother let's chill out a little bit yeah and why are you holding a hammer put the hammer down oh my god some of the things people i won't even get into
    4:57
    that of what they attempt to do on their own uh but yeah like it like ends up being a data cable or a loose connector or something you might have a bad io board or something um but that's still kind of rare you know you just it's small simple things on you know it just takes troubleshooting and it's not that bad people are just not used to that you're and that's this hobby you're so into that world now cgc still making tanks those damn games are so good oh man have you had to mess with any pulp fictions really only thing on pulp fictions i think they ran through a bad batch
    5:27
    uh and this was early on it wasn't anything like it was they were kind of bad out of the box after a few plays sort of things but uh trough boards uh oh that's right yeah yeah opto trough boards were were just bad on a few of those um but other than that man even some you know high play locations are holding up pretty solid you know something coil something might go bad like i said that's real high play stuff uh but man no built like tank like no no real issues really come out of that um everything's just minor tweaking and adjusting oh that's actually good to hear
    6:02
    I'm pretty impressed We have not shipped enough Looney Tunes or Texas Chainsaw Maskers quite yet Do we have some some issues with Scooby in the past I think so Yeah Scooby with a lot of Switch issues And again, you know, Spooky's been very good. AJ over there has been very good about, you know, working with people and trying to help figure that out. And some of it's, you know, you get into that. There's the Switches and everything are weird where it goes into that ball lock over there with the mystery machine.
    6:32
    So some of that takes a little more. Like stages. Does it stage a ball over there? No. Yeah. stages the ball and does some weird stuff over there and honestly i'll be completely honest with that one's kind of out of my realm i always have to rely on on you know aj over there to really um you know start messing with that and really help dive into people with that stuff yeah because sometimes spooky games have some quirky issues that is hard to kind of it's not it's not as easily identifiable it is and in every game has that spooky tends to be a little more um with that
    7:05
    But again, you know, AJ's usually on there. It might take a little bit of time, but he fixes that. Even the Scooby-Doo toppers, there's been a couple of them that anytime you're using servos, you're opening doors again. It's like, oh, man, you've had a couple topper issues. And I would assume I haven't had any Texas Chainsaw come in. But Looney Tunes, there was a ball getting stuck between like a target and a thing, but they had already were right on it, created a fix for that. It's like a little plastic thing or something that goes over that. I know we got a couple of those in for people that were having those problems and stuff.
    7:37
    But, you know, that was literally the only complaints that I've so far kind of seen on those games. So I kind of think that they've taken, you know, some of that, you know, criticism into consideration on some of their stuff they need to fix. And I think the quality control is a little better on this game, at least from what I've seen. You know, not too many things. Not to say there's not problems out there. But, you know, from what I've seen, these have probably been their least problematic games. All right, well, hell, while we're at it, why don't we go through, what about Pinball Brothers? They're almost akin sometimes to spooky.
    8:11
    Like they need some adjusting. Maybe a little better in spooky. Yeah, hit or miss. Like some of those early, man, when you got into those early Aliens, those, they definitely like, you know, you're. The LVSVs. Yeah, that was kind of crazy. Right now they're pretty good. Ripley's pretty good. Yeah, they're not bad. They're not bad. I think less problematic than those early runs for sure. And again, though, man, like any problems you have, because I'm not as familiar with that system and everything. So, you know, it's one of those things where I have to put it out.
    8:42
    Yeah, that's almost like a direct. You facilitate the communication between customer and them. Yeah. But again, they are very quick to. They're good. Yeah, very good. And I'll tell you what, man, I know a lot of people haven't bought these and it's not really pinball, but ice cold beer. Like those guys over there, Tom over there. They are so quick to help customers out. I mean, again, I know everywhere. The retro arcade remakes, yeah. Yeah, they've done so good about getting people parked out. Those were finicky at the beginning, and they were shipping poorly about a year ago. But now, much, much better.
    9:13
    Oh, yeah, much better, much better. And there's still issues that pop up. But, again, they're very quick to take care of it. I think it's maybe some of the repeat problems that they maybe saw early on. and now they're so used to it. They're like, okay, this is what we need. This is what we do. Let's get this out. Calibrate this. Do this. Because there's some calibration and stuff you have to do on those too that I think people aren't used to. But, yeah, man, I mean, again, I know that there are times when the ball gets dropped by some of these manufacturers or, you know, something's going on where they're a little busier and they don't get to
    9:46
    people. And time zones sometimes. Speaking of time zone, Haggis. I'll speak on behalf initially here so Haggis was a weird one because the bill of materials and what they use is almost second to none in the industry some of the materials they use are better up there with like CGC better than CGC some of the details that they put into it however we've had a handful of issues with certain games
    10:21
    that have involved things that are not easy to fix. The good thing is the boards and stuff, that's all pretty simple because it's fast. They're in the US and all that, so the board system is all that good. We've had a couple of play fields that hybrid system they use, it's like the polycarbonate or plexi or something. It's a great idea where they reverse print it, but they still put it on wood so it has a feel of that um and the clear and whatnot so they shoot well but in shipping whether it was when it shipped at the time of year it shipped there was like a uh
    10:57
    the plexi would lift like a bubble it would lift up a little bit from yes the playfield in in like a little spot so we had a couple of those and what we had to do is they're in queue for swapping out an entire play field kind of thing. Almost like back in yesteryears where Stern or JJP, mostly Stern would do that. They'd swap the whole populated play field. So we're in queue for that. We've had a couple of them that we've actually tried to make right,
    11:28
    and we just refund the whole game so that people don't have to wait for them. I've had one, two now of those couple. We were able to get the top plexi instead of waiting for a populated play field. just getting it to me and I do a topside tear down and swap it out so it's good as new. Sometimes you can just adjust some of the posts and stuff and it goes flat. So that's been the big issue. Other than that, they're just simple adjustment things for the most part when it comes to Haggis. And just communication has been honestly piss poor at times from Haggis Pinball.
    12:02
    I mean, that's what people in the threads talk about. It just, it clearly that it is what it is there. I mean, no sugarcoating that. So there but that a whole other podcast as to the perceived mess that that company has found itself into Agreed and I just leave it at your conversation It is the truth
    12:32
    Yes, it is the truth. Even if you like the people, I mean, you know, stuff holds up well until you have one of those big issues come up and then it's tough to, tough to manage. Yeah. And then we'll see here, which other, we even see it out. Some of the bigger manufacturers, we do. What about play fields in general? That used to be a hot topic discussion five years ago. But are there really play field issues now? They do pop up. It's not like they're – They're not eradicated, but they're not like they were.
    13:03
    Yeah. And again – They're almost rare occasions now. There are rare occasions, yes. It's nothing like it was at all prior. It's really not an issue, but, I mean, it does happen. It still happens. I mean, I don't think that you're eradicating – And for the most part, manufacturers have been able to swap out play fields or give blank play fields if it's something kind of minor, if there are play field issues that do pop up. And you and I are flipping out pinball.
    13:33
    We have replaced stuff as well. Yes. And that's the thing. It's like, you know, we run into these same problems with our own games and everything. You know, it's just kind of luck of the draw or whatever. I mean, I think it's like any car or anything else. you know you get a car like buy anything a tv and it not work right computer like things don't happen um you know it's just about the the service that you get in return and again for the most part it's like you said you know if it's you know something not too bad or something with something even like a play field you know most time they're pretty good about you know giving you a blank
    14:04
    play field or something um you know you could swap out or do something but it's you know it's hit or miss and everything else is just you know they take care of you and on the shipping side shippers still do what shippers do and we we ship a lot of pinball machines but they fuck up a lot of pinball machines yeah honestly like that that we probably have more problems with shipping yeah yes yeah yeah of being any kind of major event it's like i said before for the most part you know again play fields happen but it's not very it's pretty damn rare um most things are very
    14:36
    like node boards node board eight nines were a major problem there used to be a lot of swapping out of those. A ton. Now, I think that they switched that board. I don't know if it was a design. I don't know what they changed up on there, but I see almost no NodeBoard 8 and 9 failures at all. Don't jinx us. Yeah, I better not. We get a Cabinet 1 issue every now and then. Yeah, well, we ran through that for a minute. The NodeBoard, yeah, is that 1 or 0? 0, whatever. No, 0.
    15:06
    0 is your main board, ain't it? Yeah, I think it's 1. Node 1. Yeah, we had a few of those for a while where, again, it was mainly what would happen is I think there was a transistor on there that would burn out and it would cause shaker motors to run. Whether the shaker motor was causing that or the chip itself was failing, we saw that for a brief moment. But again, that's what happens in manufacturing. You don't know what you're going to get. People blame these manufacturers and get pissed at these manufacturers. And it's just like you might have a bad batch of something and you just work through it. As long as they're good at replacing it, you might be down for a day
    15:36
    or two. They're usually pretty quick on shipping. That's something else. Stern's like every manufacturer has been amazing. Stern was a little slow on their shipping, but now they're, they've really, I got to give it to, to Rebecca and the parts team and stuff over there. Like they have really stepped up trying to get the, if they got it in stock or they got it getting the, you know, replacement warranty parts out the door. Um, they've really up that game. So again, downtime isn't even that bad anymore. If you have an issue. No, it's really not. What about this scenario? What about if one of our customers has a location and they open up a brand
    16:09
    new game and it's just dead upon arrival because it's got a bad power supply and going back and forth manufacturer over i don't know a month or so and the customer rightfully so gets really frustrated and says hey zach i'm just kind of tired of this shit maybe i should i just is there any way to return this i'll just keep with my sterns and my jjp cgc stuff and i say you know what i don't blame you at all let's return it i'll pay for the 700 something dollar shipping out of my own pocket because the manufacturer sure as hell isn't doing what they're supposed to be doing And then once we get it and we need a power supply and we ask for it and they say, well, all of our power supplies right now are going into brand new games.
    16:48
    Well, this was a brand new fucking game. What do you mean? Go pull it out of a – I almost said the game. What about the – you ever face anything like that? I did. We got it back. We did get the power supply. Come on. We did. You should never, as a manufacturer, give the excuse of, I wish we could give you this part for your machine that's two months old and has never worked. I want to give you that part, but we're too busy putting those into other games that aren't selling. What? What are you doing?
    17:20
    And I know that some people got that same excuse from the said manufacturer. and once I finally got a hold of them myself after we took that game back and I attempted multiple emails which they said they never received um I tried at least a phone call with a voicemail didn't get anything did another phone call a voicemail uh did get someone on the line at that point uh and i got that same excuse uh until i kind of i had to dig a little deeper
    17:55
    and really that's what greg bones there for ladies say this is kind of unacceptable sort of thing dig and he will advocate for you yeah because it was one of those while i need to speak to my boss and i said well you can let your boss know about this that's right because i know who your boss is obviously and greg motherfucking bone yeah and like uh your boss is fully aware of this situation that you guys have completely dropped the ball on so uh you know i lost do whatever you need to do fifteen hundred two thousand dollars on that deal god yeah you can't sell it new yeah it's it's
    18:28
    absolutely stupid but we we take care of people i mean we really do and again don't don't be freaking calling wanting a damn game return or something stupid just because you got a damn bad cable like don be doing what point do we call it a limit greg yeah it takes a lot like listen and that the only reason that that game came back is simply because we could not obtain the part at the time and the manufacturer was not being responsive to this customer so there was nothing
    18:59
    we could do other than do that. So it wasn't that it was even a lemon. It wasn't that there was anything that we couldn't fix. That was just a different scenario. Because that's what I tell people, like literally when they come in with that shit, I'm like, I almost have seen no games that we can't get working. It's just, you have to be willing to troubleshoot. And a lot of it's not hard troubleshooting. Like some things have taken some time and it's been kind of hard to track down. And some of, you know, like I've, you know, Stern Engineering's had to get involved, you know, where they're taking the guys who design these things to kind of dig a little deeper and figure stuff out.
    19:35
    But they do it and we get it resolved. And you work hand in hand with Stern and JJP more so than probably most distributors, I would guess. Oh, I feel like that. Yeah, especially with Stern just because we sell so many of their games. And some of the other manufacturers, like I said, you know, some of them, they just kind of deal with direct and I don't hear anything from them. Um, and everything, but Stern, yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm on a pretty good, you know, basis with all their texts and everything. I'm trying to get stuff done and just bouncing things off of them when we have issues. And again, you know, everything's a little different.
    20:05
    Sometimes their protocols and stuff change on what they can do and what they can't do. Uh, you know, different issues, different topper, you know, you think, oh, I dealt with this with one topper and this light was that, well, Greg, this is a different scenario now because you know, the way this topper is built, we can't access that led, we can't do this. So now you're going to have to, you know, return it for, you know, an RMA to be able to get it, you know, repaired and that sort of thing. Whereas, you know, on a previous topper, I was just used to being, you know, LED part number, whatever, to have it replaced on that board. So, you know, things change. But again, that's part of just staying in communication with those guys and working with them because I just try to be that front line of defense.
    20:41
    I don't know everything. I certainly, like I said, don't know some of the things like Alien and some of their board sets and what they do. But, you know, I try to be that front line of defense. And I always tell customers, too, like if I have to direct the manufacturer and say, hey, you know, I don't really know what's going on here, you know, we'll get JJP involved. And I want to be CC'd on all of those emails because I want to see what the fix is and what the solution is because I might have another person with that issue that now I can just immediately say, hey, this sounds familiar.
    21:13
    Let's try this, this, and this and see if that works, and hopefully we get you back up and running. Very cool. And then we think we've got, for the listeners, we've got another manufacturer we're going to be selling for, another manufacturer, too, here soon. So it's a whole other learning curve for you, Greg. Oh, it's always a learning curve. How is the job of tech and warranty submissions working with manufacturers? Is it a pain in the ass job? Is it a busy job? Is it cobwebs in the corner?
    21:44
    How is it going over there? You seem pretty damn busy to me. Oh, man, I think it's phenomenal. I mean, again, anything pinball is great. But, you know, it's just kind of you're playing detective and working, you know, just wanting to help get these people up and running. Because, I mean, I know how it is. You know, it's just setting there and saying, oh, my God, I just got this game, and now I can't get it to work. There's nothing worse. No, and just be able to help people get it. I just know the excitement. Like, it's still pinball, man. And sometimes we take it for granted just because we've been in it so long and we've got a lot of games. But just especially somebody's first game and how excited they are,
    22:15
    uh it's just it's always amazing to help those people and it's just i don't know it's rewarding it can be taxing it can be tiring god man sometimes people are just not receptive to you trying to help them or manufacture anybody trying to help them so you know there's trying times and then it just gets frustrating especially you know if you're going back and forth with a manufacturer and a customer and you're trying to troubleshoot a game but you're just not getting the results as quickly as you want yourself. Again, no fault of anybody's.
    22:46
    It's just an issue that no one's seen before that you're trying to work through. Like, it could be taxing. Well, yeah, you do a lot of work with the customer, the first line of defense, trying to work through any issues. And then you've got such great contacts at each manufacturer to work with, with the customer. And then if you need to, you'll dispatch and find a local tech that can go out there. And then you work with those local techs throughout the country as well. So you have a lot of contacts and a lot of people that you deal with. And I think it's nice for customers are flipping out pinball whenever they get to text, email, call, or whatever it may be.
    23:21
    And there's Greg Bone on the line walking them through it. Oh, yeah. Some people love it. Do they know, like, any of them watch the videos or anything? Oh, yeah. Some people do. Some people always end it with, hey, I watched your show, by the way. I want to see more videos. When are you guys recording something? That's right. So in closing, would you be comfortable agreeing that the current state of pinball, you are the most confident in recommending people getting into this hobby, the quality of the games and the troubleshooting?
    23:57
    You're the most confident now than you've ever been with pinball manufacturing tech working through stuff than ever before. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think so. just because Stern's kind of always been about the same with everything, but I think some of these other manufacturers have kind of really upped their game a little bit on taking care of stuff. Again, a little less problematic, but their techs are very good at everything. They're so responsive in getting stuff done, getting parts and everything. I think that, yeah, no hesitation to buy any pinball machine, really, for the most part.
    24:31
    Some games I wouldn't want to route just because I wouldn't want the issues in repairing and tinkering, but yeah, I think now is one of the best times ever. Well, there you have it, people. If you're looking for a brand new pinball machine, make sure you always go through flipping out pinball because it's not just me, it's not just Nicole, but you're getting a piece of bone with it too. Always with the bone. That's the new tagline.