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SSS Ep 5: Lighting with Cameras

Mystery Pinball Theater 3000·video·1h 16m·analyzed·May 27, 2020
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.039

TL;DR

Pinball streaming camera comparison reveals lighting quality matters more than hardware cost.

Summary

George and Manu from Mystery Pinball Theater 3000 conduct a detailed technical comparison of four cameras (Sony a6400, Razer Kiyo, Logitech C920, Sony Handycam CX405) for pinball streaming, demonstrating how lighting dramatically impacts image quality across different price points and sensor types. The episode emphasizes that proper lighting is more critical than expensive camera hardware, showing practical examples of lighting setups ranging from budget LED panels (~$25-30 each) to professional PIN Stadium Xtreme LED strips.

Key Claims

  • Proper lighting is more important than camera choice for pinball streaming quality

    high confidence · Manu repeatedly emphasizes that 'after any recommendation I would give of a camera, depending on the person's budget, I'd say make sure you light the table properly' because people focus on camera specs instead of lighting fundamentals

  • The Sony a6400 performs significantly better than cheaper webcams due to superior sensor size and low-light capabilities

    high confidence · The a6400 is described as 'the cream of the crop' with better sensor and low-light performance; it shows sharp focus and handles auto-exposure better than competing cameras throughout the demonstration

  • Twitch affiliate accounts are limited to 6000 kbps bitrate while higher-tier streamers like Jack Danger can use 8000 kbps

    high confidence · Manu states: 'video bitrate, we're outputting at 1080 at 60 frames per second at 6,000, which is the maximum that Twitch allows...For affiliates, correct...If you're Jack Danger, then you can get eight'

  • Webcams use fisheye lenses with tiny sensors that keep subjects sharp in the middle but soften at edges

    high confidence · Manu explains that webcams 'use this really round, I would call it almost a fisheye lens' resulting in 'play field is nice and sharp in the middle, and it usually softens up on the way to the edges'

  • Logitech C920 operates at 30 fps despite marketing claims of 60 fps capability

    medium confidence · George and Manu discuss the C920: 'The 920 is at 30, yep...It says 60, but...I don't think it actually does 60, is the problem'

  • PIN Stadium Xtreme LED strips significantly improve playfield visibility across all camera types

    high confidence · Visual demonstration shows dramatic improvement in image quality, reduced reflections, and better ball tracking when PIN Stadium Extremes are activated across all four cameras

  • Budget LED panels (~$25-30 each) can provide professional-quality lighting for pinball streaming

    high confidence · George demonstrates that two articulating LED panels with diffusion plastic at ~$25-30 each create excellent lighting that rivals expensive PIN Stadium strips in practical application

Notable Quotes

  • “after any recommendation I would give of a camera, depending on the person's budget, I'd say make sure you light the table properly. because you'd be surprised what amazing results you can get from lighting, lighting, lighting, lighting.”

    Manu@ 1:41 — Core thesis of the episode: lighting quality outweighs camera hardware investment

  • “I feel like, for the Playfield cam, I feel fine dropping it down to 720 because there's no way you're looking at 1280 by 720 pixels in that little...area, which is why...that may be about a little under 33% of what you're sending to Twitch, which is 1080.”

    George@ 5:16 — Technical optimization for streaming playfield cameras at lower resolution to reduce processing load

  • “The a6400 is like, what reflections? ...The Handycam is there, but super subtle...The Razer Kiyo. Like, you can still see it there...the Logitech 920...I actually can't see it on the Handycam.”

    Manu@ 23:03 — Demonstrates how different sensors handle reflections under controlled lighting

  • “Notice it's there subtly for the Logitech 920. It hasn't been there at all for the A6400. The A6400 is like, what reflections? ...you defeat that with lighting.”

    George and Manu@ 22:55 — Key insight that proper lighting eliminates reflections better than expensive hardware

  • “The 920 is killing it at 30 frames per second that is great...the Razer is Barnyard far the worst...the handycam is the best I think out of the bunch”

    Manu@ 31:55 — Performance comparison showing cheaper cameras sometimes outperform premium-branded options

Entities

ManupersonGeorgepersonMystery Pinball Theater 3000organizationSony a6400productRazer KiyoproductLogitech C920productSony Handycam CX405productPIN Stadium Xtremeproduct

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Active pinball streaming community participating in technical camera/lighting discussion, with named contributors (Jedi McMuffin, Fliptronic, Eon Flux, Jon Hey, Pinsomniac) asking detailed questions and sharing equipment configurations

    high · Multiple community members mentioned by name engaging in real-time chat with technical questions about camera specs, mounting solutions, and lighting setups

  • ?

    community_signal: Significant engagement from pinball streaming audience during technical demonstration, including tier-3 Twitch subscriptions and raid events (Colorado Pinball raiding with party of 23)

    medium · Multiple viewer interactions noted: 'Flipstream, subscribing at tier three...Flipstream, you're amazing', 'Colorado Pinball raiding with a party of 23...thank you so much for raiding'

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball streaming community actively sharing camera equipment configurations, technical knowledge, and troubleshooting advice across Discord and streaming platforms

    high · Multiple named community contributors mentioned as helping with camera questions; George notes 'the community around pinball is amazing' and references Discord discussions about cameras and lighting

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Professional pinball streaming setup requires careful consideration of glass angle, camera positioning relative to playfield surface, and lens focal length to minimize reflections and maximize playfield visibility

    high · Manu explains: 'the glass and the playfield angles are not the same...if you think about how the pinball machine's glass is angled, it eliminates reflections based on where you don't be...we get them close to the flippers, basically'

  • ?

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.230

0:00
Hello, and welcome to episode 5 of Second String Silver Ball. My name is George, and with me tonight I have MPT3K, aka Manu. and Manu, what is going on tonight? What is it that we're doing here? All right, so this is something that we kind of wanted to play around with, but George, I really give you kudos for putting this together because this is ridiculous.
0:42
Cameras, there's a lot of conversation about cameras and what camera is good and what camera is terrible.
0:50
And so George and I got in conversation about this a lot. We have different kinds of cameras we can use. We can go from webcams all the way up to like super expensive overkill, you know, DSLRs, mirrorless cameras, whatever.
1:04
And there was a conversation that came up in my Bay Area Slack group with, you know, because of the current situation, everyone's streaming now. And so I would give a recommendation of what camera to use.
1:18
And, oh, am I still here? Yeah. Okay, good. I feel like I disappeared for a second. I would give recommendations of cameras to use, and always it would end in, but make sure you're lighting properly.

  • Camera positioning close to player height and toward flippers reduces reflections better than center-mounted positions

    high confidence · Manu explains: 'we're trying to get the camera as close to above the player's head as possible...we're going to boom the cameras out towards the player, which also helps with reflections'

  • Razer Kiyo has persistent performance and software quality issues

    high confidence · George states he was 'nothing but disappointed with it completely' despite being a Razer product fanboy; notes the software is 'the most bloated piece of crap ever' and backwards compatibility was abandoned in newer versions

  • Sony Handycam CX405 is the cheapest 1080p60-compatible camera for Elgato Cam Link

    high confidence · Manu identifies it as 'the cheapest, best camera that outputs 1080p60 that's compatible with your Elgato Camlink' and notes it can be found on eBay pre-pandemic for $80-90

    • “we're trying to get the camera as close to above the player's head as possible without obscuring or making it just really weird...we're going to boom the cameras out towards the player, which also helps with reflections”

    Manu@ 27:29 — Best practices for camera positioning in pinball streaming

  • “I was nothing but disappointed with it [Razer Kiyo] completely...the Razer software is awful...the most bloated piece of crap ever.”

    George@ 35:28 — Critique of premium brand (Razer) hardware and software quality issues

  • “Two LED panels like this should run you what 50 bucks each? Oh no they were 30 I think 25...a heck of a lot of light.”

    Manu and George@ 33:14 — Budget lighting solutions are highly effective and affordable

  • “If you have the 922, you can do 1080, 60. Yes. It says 60, but... I don't think it actually does 60, is the problem.”

    Manu and George@ 24:08 — Camera spec discrepancies between marketing and real-world performance

  • “Don't Panic Flip mentioned he was running 720 by 60 for the playfield, which is interesting...that might be another fun stream to check out at some point would be what kind of quality differences do you get?”

    Manu@ 4:31 — Reference to alternative streaming resolutions and potential future technical exploration

    • Elgato Cam Link
    product
    Don't Panic Fliporganization
    Jack Dangerperson
    Jedi McMuffinperson
    Fliptronicperson
    Eon Fluxperson
    Pinsomniacperson
    Jon Heyperson
    Pull My Focusorganization
    Twitchorganization
    Razercompany

    design_philosophy: Emphasis that lighting quality and camera positioning are more important than expensive hardware for achieving professional pinball streaming results

    high · Core message repeated throughout episode: 'after any recommendation I would give of a camera...I'd say make sure you light the table properly...you defeat that [reflections] with lighting'

  • $

    market_signal: Webcam pricing inflation due to pandemic work-from-home surge; prices have skyrocketed from pre-pandemic baseline but expected to normalize

    medium · Manu notes: 'because of the current situation, everyone's streaming now' and 'prices on webcams and microphones have skyrocketed...These are as close to what I think standard pricing is or at least what it will be after the pandemic'

  • ?

    announcement: George has built custom counterweighted boom arm setup for playfield camera using improvised counterweight solution (handsaw attached via string)

    medium · George explains: 'I needed to find something that I could counterweight the boom mic arm with...the only thing I could find was a chainsaw. So there is a not-plugged-in chainsaw attached via string...It's a handsaw...I will post a picture to the Discord later'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Sony a6400 significantly outperforms cheaper webcams in sensor quality, low-light performance, focus reliability, and reflection handling despite 10x+ price difference

    high · Throughout testing, a6400 shows superior sensor performance: 'The a6400 is like, what reflections?...The A6400 super sharp...it hasn't been there at all for the A6400'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Logitech C920 marketing specifications inaccurate; claims 60 fps capability at 1080p but operates at actual maximum 30 fps

    high · George: 'The 920 is at 30, yep...It says 60, but...I don't think it actually does 60, is the problem.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Razer Kiyo camera has persistent performance issues including poor frame quality, bloated software, and backwards compatibility problems despite premium branding

    high · George states: 'I was nothing but disappointed with it completely...the Razer software is awful...the most bloated piece of crap ever...they switched from their OG version to a new version, and they didn't offer backwards compatibility'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Emerging focus on affordable LED panel lighting ($25-30) as alternative to expensive PIN Stadium Xtreme strips ($350) for achieving professional streaming quality

    high · George demonstrates budget LED panels achieving comparable results to premium PIN Stadium Xtreme lighting; Manu explicitly states 'we're not endorsing for you...go out and get pink stadiums...but who has 350 bucks just kind of convey it'

    • 1:35
    And Dice, welcome to the stream, and two, go ahead and take notes. Please do. Yeah. So the short story is after any recommendation I would give of a camera, depending on the person's budget, I'd say make sure you light the table properly. because you'd be surprised what amazing results you can get from lighting, lighting, lighting, lighting. I could say it a hundred times and people just go, no, it's the USB. It's the bandwidth. It's the fact that the CX-405 is a crappy camera for doing play field stuff. And I'm like, so, yes, you know, there's, you know, there are tests we can do. And thankfully, George has many cameras and has tried many things.
    2:27
    Correct, sir? Yes. Yeah, we have played around with a lot of tech. And not just us, mind you. It also, I feel like, is a lot of the people on Discord who are also on the stream watching right now. So people like Jedi McMuffin and Fliptronic, who's on, by the way. Hey, guys. Hey, Dice.
    2:48
    And yourself. There's Pinsomniac. Omniac. There is, um, Eon Flux, uh, Six, who was on today helping a ton with camera related questions. So the, the, the, the community around pinball is amazing. And that's just the discord I was talking about. I'm probably forgetting a dozen people, but there's also then tilt forums and on tilt forums, you'd be surprised how much conversation goes around cameras and lighting and, and all of that jazz. And I tend to, as I'm reading, I feel like I'm hearing the same things you are, that it comes down to the camera or bandwidth or something else like that. But I think maybe what we're going to see here in the very near future could prove a little different from that. Yeah. You mentioned Eon. Yeah. They're hardcore. Definitely at the level of like Pull My Focus, which is my YouTube channel, which all we talk about is Exposure triangle and iso and this and that and we uh and we have i'd say maybe a third of our 115 episodes is about lighting we'll do three episodes not about lighting and another episode about lighting because lighting cameras don't work unless you have you can't see your eye for your for that matter, your eyes don't work unless they have something that reflects the light off of. Cameras especially so. So let's get into it then. Okay. Make sure I can see chat also. So I'm going to bring up. Yeah, bring up a window on the, like on another one. Make sure to turn the audio off so we don't get an echo. Definitely. So yeah, I was actually surprised the other day when Don't Panic Flip mentioned he was running 720 by 60 for the playfield, which is interesting. That's not something I was planning on messing with tonight, but that might be another fun stream to check out at some point would be what kind of quality differences do you get? Because if you're outputting to me at, let's say, 1080 as opposed to 720, but your play field is, A, rotated counterclockwise to what the full 1080 is, and of that 1080, you're using a very small bit. To me, that means that the computer is re-rendering that image and doing a lot of interpolation across the video to basically, there just isn't that many pixels in that much smaller of an area, which is why I feel like for the Playfield cam, I feel fine dropping it down to 720 because there's no way you're looking at 1280 by 720 pixels in that little, I would say it may be about a little under 33% of what you're sending to Twitch, which is 1080.
    5:29
    So that would be kind of a fun one is to see how differently either, I don't know if it's the NVIDIA video card, which would be doing that image interpolation, if it's the CPU, if it's OBS, whatever that is, if it creates a better or worse image because of that. So do we want to jump over to the other screen or do you have anything else you want to go over before we blow everybody's minds? Well, I'm looking at the chat and I'm feeling a couple of things. Global cop. annoying when people have auto focus on is constantly hunting yeah it's called focus breathing and um you know the the depending on the manufacturer and the depending on the quality of the auto focus um it could get really annoying or it could be pretty damn good canon cameras tend to have really good auto focus um uh but either way we're gonna turn that off right you got the play field when you're talking about the play field you got one point of focus yeah it's not basically yeah it's not moving you have basically one point of focus unless it's george and he moves the machine halfway across the town by the way i found out why the tilt bob wasn't triggering i still had the uh the piece of plastic that ghostbusters came with that drops a a middle post in that puts it in the middle and it had rotated in such a way to where it fell and it was holding the tilt bob at just a perfect situation where i would really have to move the machine in order to get it to tag something so i wish i could i wish i could blame my loss on that but i don't think i can i think i wish i could bro i wish i think you can all right so watch the playback i there are a couple times where i moved it thinking i was going to get a double danger and i i only got a single and i think in one instance it had actually stopped the tilt bob from moving at all. And in that instance, there's one where I moved it probably a good 8 to 12 inches, and I got nothing out of it. And I just kept playing.
    7:40
    So. Let's see. Jedi McMuffin. Well, my thought is with a Cam Link 4K, it has to handle receiving uncompressed. So if I reduce the source camera to 720, it should leave some... Yeah, going back to, are you outputting at 720 or 1080? And Jedi, that's exactly why I do the play field at 720, because there's no way we're displaying anything close to 1080. We're not even displaying anything close to 720 when it actually gets put onto the display, because we have shrunk it down so much that I thought, why not alleviate some stress on USB and drop it to a lower resolution that's being pushed to the computer.
    8:26
    And then I also want to talk Global Cop. I had a tilt-bob cam forever, and you'll see people giving me crap that my tilt-bobs are in Chicago because I had a camera on them, and people didn't believe it was the camera. It was the tilt-bob in the machine I was actually playing. So we'll bring a tilt-bob cam back at some point, and you're absolutely right. In that last match, a tilt-bob cam would have been super helpful. But I'm really struggling not to switch us over to the super cool screen. Yeah, so we've got four cameras set up, all on auto settings right now. George, can we – we need to let people know what your lighting situation is right now because I know your lights are off right now. Yes, lights are off right now. So this is going to be cameras all set to auto, and it's going to look a little funky because we're not doing any external lighting on the playfield short of my two massive lights that are lighting me up, not the playfield directly. But we do have four other lights that we will be turning on. Colorado Pinball raiding with a party of 23. That's amazing.
    9:37
    Snow and Paul, you're awesome. My hat's off to you, and thank you so much for raiding. This is a non-standard stream for us, though. There's going to be pinball playing, but it's not for the purpose of actual pinball. What we're doing tonight is going over different cameras and how those different cameras for a play field show how they work and then how lighting will affect those. In fact, we were just about to switch over to this other view.
    10:06
    So, Georgie, let's do it. Okay, cool. Switching over. that should be gone now awesome yeah the a6400 is going to be like the cream of the crop as far as what we're going to deal with tonight because of its sensors and also because of its ability to its low light capabilities basically George bought a nice camera for pinball streaming but also an amazing camera for him to go out and take shots of the family and of things this is a beautiful camera to own and you can be done. So, but this is the big, this is the big boy right here in terms of how we're dealing with stuff. Okay. So that's the a6400. Normally, by the way, if you guys have been on my stream before, there's a camera on me that focuses on me and then blurs out the background. That is the a6400 with the lens that I currently have on it. That is a 35 millimeter lens with no zoom capability and an f-stop of 1.8. So that is the Sony a6400. Did I say all those words right? Is it an f-stop of 1.8? Is that right? Yes. You forgot to mention that you abuse Boca like it's going out of style. Boca is amazing! That's a different thing between you and me, bro. That's all good. It's all good. Okay. I also saturate my playfields, and I play around with the colors all the time. Fliptronic agrees. Boca for the win. Yes. Also, Global Cop says, HDR, please. I don't understand that request.
    11:42
    Well, no, we don't have any HDR capabilities on the stream. Twitch doesn't even have HDR capabilities, but I feel you, Global Cop.
    11:52
    Just looking at the play field, I'd like something between the Kyo and the Logitech. Yeah, 1.8. Those are rookie numbers. You need to step those numbers up. Okay, cool. So moving to the right, next up we've got the Razer Kio. I was a huge fanboy of all Razer products. I had a Razer laptop, I have Razer keyboards, I have Razer mice, I then had the Razer microphone, and I went out and also, just to complete the set, got the Razer Kio camera webcam that was supposed to be able to do 60 frames per second at 1080. and I was nothing but disappointed with it completely. That said, I still use it for work meetings and whatnot and and I wanted to get a different perspective for tonight so I threw it on here. Now I interrupted you, I feel like you were about to say something. I was about to say I never even heard of it. So this is great. Okay. It's got a little ring light too, doesn't it? It does, yeah. So I can turn that on like that and then notice you can see the circle now on every camera. So we're going to turn that back off. Oh, that's too bad. Cause I wanted to tell people that George is such a completionist. He's not lighting. He's not putting all the cameras on one machine. He went out and got four Ghostbusters. I'm lying. I'm lying. Yeah. Let's just do that really quick. I, I have four hands. Uh, the razor is supposed to be 60 frames per second at 1080, but I don't have a lot of control over the Razer, unfortunately. That's quite the commitment. Right? Okay, so off to the right, guys, we have the Logitech C920, and if you've done anything ever with webcams, you've probably come across the Logitech C920. It's the staple of relatively inexpensive webcams. It does 30 frames per second up to 1080. I've got it set to 1080 and 30 frames per second. So that's this guy over here. It's currently listed on Amazon at $194. Right. And we're throwing out – yeah, sorry, continue. Because of the current situation.
    14:01
    Yeah, guys, these prices that you're seeing here right now, these are either actual or guesstimates. I didn't want to put what the prices are currently because the prices on webcams and microphones have skyrocketed because everybody went from working in an office to working remotely overnight and everybody needed webcams. So all the webcams are sold out everywhere. These are as close to what I think standard pricing is or at least what it will be after the pandemic. Fliptronic is asking, is the a6000, a6400 price, is it body only or do you get a kit lens? No, that is body only price. For $1,200, I think you get the other lens I have. And then the lens I have on it was $450. That was the 35mm 1.8 f-stop.
    14:53
    Yep, as Jedi McMuffin confirmed, who has the exact same camera and lens, I think. Okay, so moving off to the far right, we have then the Sony Handycam. HDR CX405 for $175. Honestly, you can get it way cheaper on eBay pre-pandemic. I got two of them for about $80 to $90.
    15:15
    Same here. Okay, cool. So same thing. Normally those are a lot cheaper, but on Amazon right now they're $175. And I don't think that was all that much more expensive than what they were pre-pandemic. They were between $150 and $175 brand new. So Flipstream, subscribing. at tier three. They've subscribed for two months. Flipstream, you're amazing. Thank you very much for that. And for that flex, right? I'm using that all the time now. That weird flex, but okay.
    15:50
    I have saved that. That day, I clipped it, Flipstream. I clipped it, and then, sorry, there are no sounds apparent that normally automatically play on stream. I lost my cached credentials and we came down to the wire trying to get everything set up for this. So, Sari also coming in awesome with those emotes. Dab it away. Also, I really like the rainbow there.
    16:15
    I want to mention real quick, AM Black is mentioning, I just want this out there. $150 will give you other options for Handycam-type video cameras. And that is true. Yep. By the way, these are the cameras that I had access to, and I thought it was nice because they were at different price points, I thought, but there are a lot of other cameras out there. And this is just an example. You can find often, I think, something similar. And I think a big part of what we're going to see is how lighting affects each one of these. So without further ado, should I just throw a quick game on so we can kind of baseline no light performance here.
    16:58
    All right. So while George plays, I'll just give you guys a little more insight. All cameras, we check them, and they're all set to auto.
    17:08
    And when George says no light, we do have the Penn Stadium Xtreme, which are the LED strips. George has augmented lights also. I think he has two other LED panels, and he has two giant ambient LED kind of holes that not only lights the table with really nice ambient light, but also lights the talent, which is the person in front of the camera.
    17:35
    Usually. So what you're seeing is auto settings on every camera. I'm going to scroll through. Fliptronic said, did you guys see my previous message asking about video bitrate settings? No, I didn't. So video bitrate, we're outputting at 1080 at 60 frames per second at 6,000, which is the maximum that Twitch allows. That Twitch allows for affiliates. For affiliates, correct. Yeah. If you're Jack Danger, then you can get eight.
    18:14
    Oh, is that how that goes? they get an extra $2,000? Yeah. God. That's really good to know because I always compare my camera, I feel like, to Jack, who always looks amazing. I had no idea he had an extra, what is that, 25%?
    18:34
    Yeah. Ann says, I have some Canon ones. They work same as Sony. Yes, that's correct. I think the Sony, the CX-405 we were talking about, That's kind of the cheapest, best camera that outputs 1080p60 that's compatible with your Elgato Camlinks. Cross the board, it's compatible with a lot of stuff. Wait a second. Manu, Flipstream asked a really good question. He said, how are you doing a vertical down mounting? Do you have a crossbar or an arm and counterweight You don want to know He does have a counterweight It his daughter Zoe No. I sent a picture off to Manu beforehand because I needed to find something that I could counterweight the boom mic arm with because there's a lot of weight up here. Like it was threatening to fall down and the only thing I could find was a chainsaw. So there is a not-plugged-in chainsaw attached via string to the other end over here. I took a picture. There is no joke. It's not a chainsaw. It's a handsaw.
    19:49
    And I will post a picture to the Discord later tonight afterwards showing you this entire ridiculous setup. But I apologize for interrupting, but I had to mention that because that was really fun setting up. That's a smart observation out there, guys.
    20:08
    Let's see. Dice, I don't know if you're being serious or not. He said, I'm going to lurk for a smidge while we get to face cams. That's the real meat and potatoes to me anyway. We're not doing face cams tonight. Just play field. Just play field, yeah.
    20:23
    Logitech is the one that I have. that's wolf man what's up wolf what's up turkey yeah um by the way he can improve okay so yeah wolf we get we're getting there because wolf man says by the way he can improve that logitech um so it doesn't look so washed out so once again these cameras are all set to auto and uh they tend to ex with the exception of the 6400 and possibly the 405 the sony the two sony cameras deal better with less dynamic range. Yep. The webcams, they're webcams.
    21:00
    They have tiny sensors and big old fisheye lenses, so they're going to do as well as they can without dialing them in. That being said, we always dial in all our cameras, including the CX-405. We're going to dial those in. Okay, so do you guys want to see this now with the extremes turned on?
    21:19
    I don't know why I'm waiting for an audience response there. We're going to turn on the pin stadium extremes, which, by the way, if you have a pinball machine and you don't have pin stadium lights, that's fine. Pin stadium lights and pin stadium extremes are very nice because they're long LED strips that run up and down the length of the pinball machine and, you know, give you really good general illumination. Yep. You fired them up? Yes. So I want to say tooth. No, no, no. I have not fired them up. I thought you said you were going to fire them up. Yeah. So two seconds here. I wanted to point out two things. One, Fliptronic wants to see everything at its bestest ability. And we'll do that at the end. We'll get there. In the meantime, I want to keep it at auto while we do a couple different lighting scenarios.
    22:09
    And then once we get everything turned on, I think we can go back in and kind of configure it to show everything at best. But I do want to point out, you can kind of see a reflection right now on the KEO, the 920, and the Handycam, where you can see the racks I have above in my garage here where I store a bunch of stuff. Watch what happens when we add additional lighting to the reflections.
    22:39
    Wow. So I'm so glad you pointed that out, George, because a lot of people say, I can't get rid of the reflections. And the first thing I think is you're not using enough light. You defeat that with lighting.
    22:53
    Yeah, which is interesting. Notice it's there subtly for the Logitech 920. It hasn't been there at all for the A6400. The A6400 is like, what reflections? The Handycam is there, but super subtle. but it's actually quite evident still with the Razer Kiyo HD.
    23:15
    Like, you can still see it there, but it's almost gone completely on the Logitech 920, and I actually can't see it on the Handycam.
    23:24
    So, now that we... So, this is what Pin Stadium Extremes will do for you in these four different camera scenarios. So, let's play another game. Also, another thing to point out, Manu, might be, and it was something that you taught me about a long time ago, which had to do with what's in focus and what's not across a long play field having to do with the lens, right? Something along those lines. I'm not using the right words, but you have them. George, real quick, are you running, the Logitech is running at 1080 60, right? The 920? The 920 is at 30, yep. 10, 820. If you have the 922, you can do 1080, 60. Yes. It says 60, but... Okay, continue, sorry. Yeah, I feel you, man.
    24:21
    I don't think it actually does 60, is the problem. Yeah, I'm feeling you too, yeah. As far as the focus distance and stuff like that, So with the webcams, webcams are built so that the subject is in the middle. Because if you look at, there's not a lot of glass in a webcam. So in order for them to get this wide field of view, they use this really round, I would call it almost a fisheye lens, and they're doing stuff in there. So generally speaking, you can tell someone's play field is nice and sharp in the middle, and it usually softens up on the way to the edges. And that's an artifact of the tiny distance that a webcam has to put it to glass.
    25:13
    I have two other things I think we may have addressed. So originally, because we had everything set to auto, the lesser, I feel like the non-Sony cameras, when the lights flashed, made it really difficult to kind of follow what was happening. It's almost, I don't know if it was auto adjusting like light sensitivity while that was happening. And maybe if you had that set statically, it wouldn't be a problem. But as we add more light, I feel like we're getting rid of some of the negative effects there. But I'm not watching at the same time I'm playing, so maybe that's actually not the case. And the second thing I wanted to maybe bring up discussion around is, does the ball at the pin stadiums, does it look more fluid in any of these screens than it did without the lighting? All right. Throw up another ball. Let's see.
    26:06
    So we're looking around. Yes, Jedi. no push-ups today okay yeah flipstream would would be cool if the a6400 fo V was similar to the yes but we mentioned in the beginning you know George has the lens set I think he has the prime lens on there so yeah I have the the 1.8 that That is totally my bad.
    26:39
    Let's see. Angle of camera versus angle of play field is another thing worth mentioning. Yes. Where is Aeon from? Because they seem to have a lot of knowledge about... I know Canada is a country, not really a location, but I think somewhere in Canada.
    27:05
    Yeah, there I go. I go away and I come back again. It's like every 30 seconds. I will talk about that real quick.
    27:16
    George and I both... Am I back? I'm back. You're back. You're back. We both agree that... Oh, Edmonton. I love Edmonton. We both agree that when you rig your camera,
    27:29
    we're trying to get the camera as close to above the player's head as possible without obscuring or making it just really weird. So we're not going to put the cameras in the middle of the play field. We're going to boom the cameras out towards the player, which also helps with reflections, because if you think about how the Pimol machine's glass is angled, it eliminates reflections based on where you don't be. So we get them close to the flippers, basically.
    27:59
    I've been keeping my play field lens pointed perpendicular to the glass. Yeah. I kind of instinctively do that. I haven't given them the thought actually yet. So I try not to because perpendicular to the glass I feel like is a different perspective. I want to give people as close to my perspective as possible. No, no, no, no. We mean that, George. Okay. You keep it closer to you, right? So think about how the glass is and then the camera is like here.
    28:33
    You know what I mean? Yes. Not, yeah, not the center, but we're talking about the same kind of thing. Okay. Maybe I was thinking, yeah, okay, cool.
    28:43
    Aeon says the glass and the playfield angles are not the same. That is correct. They are different angles. Oh! That is the point. Yeah, okay. They are definitely different angles. It gets shallower as it gets closer to the lock bar, and it gets more wide as it goes out. Not so much here or here, but right there. Yeah. Anytime you can throw in a Tommy Boy reference, I feel like I should.
    29:10
    All right. So we're going to move on to... Yes. Okay. So turning off the pin stadiums. God, that Sony a6400 is like, I don't care. Yeah. You see that, guys? Yeah. That's where money gets you.
    29:28
    Okay, cool. So now this is without any of the external lighting. and now we're going to switch over to, I have two LED lamps set up at a slight angle on one side of the playfield, illuminating it from the side. I'm going to turn those on now.
    29:46
    Jetta McMuffin. No, I do not typically use an A6400 on the playfield. Okay. Barely an inconvenience. So this is instead of dual illumination from the Penn Stadium extremes on both sides, which, by the way, sorry, there's a light over here on me. This is two LED lamps. They're both from the same side, which is the right side of the play field, lifted up and angled down to kind of put light into the play field from one side.
    30:20
    Wow. So from that angle, it's getting a lot of light from one side. That creates this kind of cool contrast, right, because you're creating harsh shadows. So you basically, he's setting his key light, right, hard on one side, right? And then the extra, everything else is just fill. It makes this nice depth.
    30:43
    MPT-3, are you drinking wine out of a coffee cup? Man, Jedi must know you really well. It's like Johnny Carson used to do.
    30:57
    Trade secret. So let's take a look. Now notice, see how much depth that creates actually for the ball. Now the ball has this nice kind of hot shadow on the play field, which is kind of nice. I mean, part of the reason that George and I were doing this is because we wanted to be surprised also. We wanted to get some, you know, we're like scientists. We want to actually be surprised by what our outcomes are.
    31:26
    If you look, you can see the razor is still blurry. the Sony A6400 super sharp and I think that has more to do with frames per second if you're running at 30 good luck look at the smoothness of the handycam right now as I do this back and forth even the A6400 isn't dealing with smoothness very well the handycam is the best I think out of the bunch the Razer is by far the worst the 920 is killing it at 30 frames per second that is great yep the 920 is actually quite good and this this is this is the kind of stuff that you know we want to what well fed what is a hot shadow quit making stuff up at pt did i say hot shadow you said hot shadow whatever it's a hot shadow it's a it's a you know a hot shadow is one that doesn't have like a lot of softness on the um on the edges exactly it's a shadow with a six pack because it's not soft ah nice okay all right uh okay so i'll keep playing here and you guys can keep trying to figure out and talk about the differences Oh my god. Don't bring my play into this though because it's awful right now. No. MT3K, you're a hot shadow. Thank you. Thank you, Wolfman. Hell yeah. So this is the kind of lighting that I see people starting off with, right? They won't go out and get pink stadiums, and we're not endorsing for you to go out and get pink stadiums. This is not, the show is not sponsored. We love Scott to death, but who has 350 bucks just kind of convey it. Two LED panels like this should run you what 50 bucks each? Oh no they were 30 I think 25. There you go. I was upping it because I was like okay and you but it's a it's a heck of a lot of light. George can I ask you are those panels um are they diffused? Do they have diffusing diffusion plastic They do have diffusion plastic. And I can play with the warmth of these panels.
    33:46
    And I have them hooked up to two little arms, so I can kind of, like here, this is me repositioning this one. Yeah, they're articulating arms. Thank you for the word.
    33:58
    There we go. But I'm going to drop that down a little lower, because that is right in my camera. Yeah, the Razor is like stop motion right now, so we're seeing what we're getting. And I have that exact same issue with the Razer, even in meetings. It just, it has never worked well for me, I guess. I have never enjoyed the Razer Kio.
    34:22
    And I don't know if this is version one and it's problematic, because I've had this Kio now for at least a year, if not two. I think I got it shortly after they released the Razer Kio. Hey, CNK, what's up? CNK? Hi. All right. Which light do you want to add now? Oh, actually, what I want to do is really quick, just so that way people see the difference. This is two LED frames. I'm going to turn these guys off. Let's put – this is just one LED frame. Let's see on the front. Let's see what this does really quick.
    34:59
    Those things are powerful. They're like little 1Ks. I've got them turned up all the way, too. isn't there a firmware update for the kio that fixed some stuff uh that flipstream flipstream that might be a possibility and uh the other issue i have with razor is in order to to use razor effectively i feel like not even they they work out of the box but their software is awful If you have to install the Razer software, it is the most bloated piece of crap ever. And on top of that, they switched from their OG version to a new version, and they didn't offer backwards compatibility with all their products. When I said I was a Razer fanboy, I mean it. The laptop, I had the Nostromo gamepad, which is a programmable 16-key gamepad. We had Nostromos all the time, yeah. I had the keyboard, the mouse, the headphones, the microphone, and the camera. I had the entire setup, and the only cool thing was the integrated light stuff you could do, where a color would move between all the devices. That, to me, was the only cool reason to have a Razer. The Razer, the software, I feel like is awful and bloated, A. B, their mice, I constantly, regardless of the computer they're plugged into, as I'm using them I have to unplug them and plug them back in. Wow. Alnonymous says buy more cams. Yes. So yeah so there's the Razer right? Yeah that was one light. I really quick want to throw the extremes back up. Now you guys have seen what two lights, what one light are like, now here are the Razer extremes. What's the what's the difference? Can you can you turn them off and on again? Yes. Just turn them off. So without razors? Not, sorry, without extremes. Without extremes, sorry, without extremes, and now with extremes. Off. Off. On. Right? And now really quick I'm gonna turn it off and now I'm gonna turn these two guys back on. Alright, so these are the two LED panels and you're absolutely right to me. I feel like I'm seeing the shadows that are cast because these are coming from just one sub. Now, remember, everybody, these are set on auto, so they're going to change themselves based on how much light they're getting. Yep. But in most cases, I'm not going to say for the A6400 or the 405, but the Razor and the 920s are going to have to work a little less. Let's put it that way. Okay, so I'm going to turn these both off. Hey, it's Dog. Thank you so much for the kudos on the videos.
    37:54
    How many LEDs are in those boxes? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. So 154 is that right 80 plus I don know 18 times that by 8 Minnesota Pinball We mentioned before that George just threw a prime lens on the 6400 144. If he moves the camera back or if he changes to a zoom, it'll get the full play field. But we're getting the gist of the 6400 right now. Yes. Yeah. Unfortunately, I didn't have a larger arm for the 6400. And as you said, I don't have a zoom lens on it right now. So we get what we get and we don't throw a fit, as I like to tell my daughter. Right. So flip stream, exactly that. Pretty much the same aside from the unidirectional shadows. Beautiful.
    38:56
    And now, sorry, go ahead. MET3K, remind me which one you use. Hey, it's Doug. Which one what? Just because I'm trying to keep up with everybody. but I'll be happy to remind you.
    39:12
    CNK, it's all about depth. Attack from Philly. A small field light will knock out the shadows. Basically, the extremes are acting as the field.
    39:23
    If George uses the LEDs, which he does, he also uses the extremes. The extremes are not the key at that point because they have a really long, wide dispersal of light. The LEDs are very sharp on the play field.
    39:46
    I use the 405. Yep. I also use the 405 for the play field. I use the A6400 for me. So who's ready to see what all of the lights look like? Because we can Tim the Toolman tailor this. And at the same time, this is what we're about to see here in a second is what I use normally, which is all four lights at once.
    40:17
    All right. Tell us when you do it so we can see the change. Here's the bottom one and the top one. So now this is all four lights at once.
    40:32
    Now I want you guys to take a look at some really good – this table we picked, It wasn't a mistake to pick this table. The Ghostbusters machine has that beautiful, detailed zombie yeti artwork. But there's also that cityscape in the background that just gobbles up light.
    40:50
    I have this right here just to my left. Oh, my God. Yeah, sorry. I'm interrupting, but A.M. Black says, George, can you put a light behind you to the left? And I have these two massive LED lights about each about maybe five feet away from me, lighting me up from both sides. But I now have a crappy camera looking at me. That's also happens to be picking up the playfield camera right, right, the playfield light right there. Can we just see that one on? All right.
    41:21
    Hold on. Give me a sec. I'm anonymous. Do you mean to this side? or yeah it's got to be to this side because it's going to be really hard to put the light over there you continue continue doing your thing okay anonymous um you said i just used one led panel um how big can you just let me know how big it is like is it a can you tell me how big it is anonymous because you know brothers got to know right um let's see holy moly at a6400 no wonder A6400 showing some grain now Yeah it's going to show grain because they're all on auto So they're all going to A6400 is actually fighting against all the light now Because it's sensor is super sensitive Wonder why the Razer has such a bad frame rate We talked about that a little bit earlier Where there may be a firmware upgrade for the Razer That'll fix that Hey I'm doing this all for you here Okay Hey, anonymous, it's running 1080p 30 to keep up resolution. I don't know if, Ian, that's what you were looking for. Interesting. I wonder why the Razer has such, yeah. As I've mentioned before, I have been super disappointed in every Razer piece of equipment I've owned with the exception of my keyboard, which is my all-time favorite keyboard. But I've had their laptop, the first Razer. So I had the Razer, the 2014 version of the Razer 17-inch Pro series laptop, and it died and never turned back on about two months after I got it. And it was just, I was mid, it was my work laptop, and I was working on something. It stopped and it just never booted. And then they had me send it back and they just sent me a new laptop, which was great in terms of customer service. But I also had to pay for shipping because they weren't willing to get me a replacement laptop within 72 hours of shipping. It was going to be a two week process and it was awful. Their mice, I constantly have to plug and unplug across multiple pieces of hardware. Their microphone was kind of a joke. honestly and I feel like this camera the Razer Kiyo camera doesn't work well on a on a bus with other with other USB devices if that makes sense right now I have it I have to have this hardwired directly into my laptop I can't have it going into a hub it just doesn't it doesn't handle it well huh I'm looking at the LED light that Alonimus uses wow that's pretty cool yeah so he he's basically got the equivalent of your two leds um in one light in one light yeah okay is that correct me if i'm wrong anonymous um now uh this likes warm lighting 5k all the way Did you just describe a cam link? Jedi is funny. I found that only certain. Yeah. That's a whole other conversation about USB bandwidth. Yes, it is. Yeah. So, okay. So, George, what I want you to do now, and I know it may be easy, it may not be easy.
    44:56
    We're going to go through and we're going to dial in the cameras, each of the cameras one at a time. Okay. And I guess maybe we just start from left to right. I don't know. Okay, cool. Whatever's easiest. Yeah, so the A6400, does it really need any dialing in right now? Well, you got some, you got some, maybe something that you could do, I don't know. I've got nothing. It is set to, I have it set to movie mode right now, so it's not even, I honestly, I can't override anything, and it's amazing. It's just nailing it, right? I'm very happy with the A6400 the problem I have with the A6400 as a playfield cam is that I feel like the 405 is more buttery in terms of smoothness by the way I'm going to have to turn this off now because that is Eon I hope that's what you were looking for was to see that light behind me like that Fliptronic do you think there's any risk putting three cam sources and a mic on one hub that connects to the PC via Thunderbolt 3. I don't think there's anything wrong with any of what you just offered as long as it provides the power that all of the things need. Thunderbolt 3 definitely has the bandwidth.
    46:12
    I have no experience with that. My machine does have Thunderbolt 3 on it. I have no experience with that, so I guess your mileage may vary.
    46:23
    Tech from Philly. It's crazy how cheap these setups can be now. Yes, we had a talk show set on a school bus years back, and it was so much more expensive to set it up. Okay, so I'm going to adjust the exposure manually now and turn off low light compensation. On which one? This is the Razer Kiyo. Okay, Razer. Yep, I'm going to play with the gain just a hair. It seems like it should come down a bit.
    46:51
    All right. I'm going to adjust the white balance. DRI is rating with a party of four. Welcome to the stream. Hey, DRI374, thank you so much.
    47:01
    My hat's off to you. Thank you. This is a very weird stream, and MPT3K can describe kind of what we're doing. Yeah, really quick for those who just tuned in. We're going through four different kinds of cameras that George happens to have on hand. We're not making any endorsements for any of them, but there are three of them he does use. and we're seeing what their auto settings look like and dialed-in settings look like, all based around how much lighting that you have on the table because the argument is one camera will look better than the other because of other reasons than lighting. A lot of it is lighting. A ton of it is lighting, so we're going to show you guys. Right now he's dialing in the Razer KEO.
    47:46
    That looks a little better. Yeah. Okay, so there goes the KEO. Now I'm going to dial in the 920. Okay, so he's going to the Logitech C920. And we're dialing these in. We're mostly using maybe Windows drivers to set exposure and focus, maybe gain. Yeah, I got to adjust the exposure down a notch. There's not a lot you can do. And then let's go to cane and bring that up just a hair.
    48:17
    So maybe like that. anytime that you can have 60 frames per second, you should use 60 frames per second, especially on a play field camera. On talent and on DMDs and stuff, 60 is not, it doesn't really help. It doesn't hurt, looks great, but you don't really need it. And now let's play with the Handycam. So that's the 920. I think that's as nice as I can get that. I actually have a lot less I can do from the computer on the Handycam, but I can adjust the saturation up, which, by the way, so this is where it sits normally without adjusting anything on camera. And I'm just going to pump that up. Outer orbit. What's up, outer orbit? Oh, this is great. Christian, this is – Christian works in the video industry, actually. He used to work in the video industry. Oh, cool. And he runs outer orbit. And he and I have never had this conversation, but I think there were some doubts from him about the CX405. So, you know, see for yourself which one looks better, and then buy the one that you want to buy.
    49:25
    We have the A6400, we have the Razer KEO, we have the Logitech 920, and we have the CX405, which is the staple of pinball streaming. Anonymous, back in my day, all we had was Logitech, and you could only adjust the last webcam you plugged in. you kids have it easily now. That's not how anonymous sounds though.
    49:47
    What do you guys think? Do you think the warmer colors on the Handycam? I feel like that's kind of nice, but everything else is definitely cooler. I think I'm just going to put it back so we're comparing apples to apples, I guess.
    50:01
    Okay. I mean, there's not a ton I can do with the Handycam either. And then just to confirm... You know, the Razer got better. It's still crap, but it got better.
    50:14
    Yeah. You got to play. You got to play. I got to play. You guys tell me what you think here as I'm playing. Not on my gameplay, mind you. This is all just for the cause.
    50:27
    So you guys are talking about 4K. Yeah, the RF800 is a 405, basically. Yeah, that's true. Owl, I completely agree.
    50:41
    Oh, Owl? Handycam is the best one. Is there, Fliptronic, is there any positive slash negative aside from flicker to go to higher or lower shutter speed? That's a terrific question. Terrific, yeah. On your YouTube channel, one of your videos talks about that specifically. We talk about the exposure triangle and how, you know, ISO and f-stop and shutter speed all affect each other. For us, generally speaking, we're going to change the shutter speed. See how the inserts are flashing?
    51:20
    If your shutter speed is set wrong, those flashes can turn into just flashing. By the way, it's actually flashing like that. That's how Ghostbusters tells you the status. and shutter speed is actually greatly affected on your DMD because you could wreck your DMD and I'm talking about the regular Williams type DMDs not the LCD sterns if you have the wrong shutter speed there is the handsaw, I probably shouldn't be nudging like that oh god, please don't destroy your four Ghost of Musters machines yeah so I'm not saying the handycam is the best You know what I'm gonna say I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the Handycam is the best for the value you get. It is an amazing 60 frames per second. If you dial it in and you don't go all auto, sometimes I'll even set the focus. you know yeah auto focus will breathe sometimes in real determinants and the focus will breathe that people get so mad and I'll go in and I'll say point two three point four dial it in hey MPT 3k have you gotten better at blacks black night sort of rage next question we love pinball says the razor is the worst Ah! Attack on Philly said, hmm? Ah, I'm happy to hear somebody else, I guess at least, not that I want a product to be bad, but somebody else have maybe a similar experience with Razer products. Attack on Philly says, I think the Logitech colors look the best. That is me dialing those in independently. Yeah. I mean, it's still a valid claim. If you don't go with, you know, auto and you have an eye like George, you can dial it in to make him look good. I mean – And I do that. Every stream, I turn up that saturation. Like it comes at – it shows it at 150. I don't know. I guess maybe it's because it's a 255, so it must be storing it as a – oh, my god, as a binary value, like doing binary bit-based calculations. because you can do a 32-bit int in terms of, you can store, it's eight different bytes, and you can store a set of on and offs for that and get up to the number 255. So as you're moving the slider, you're moving between zero and 255. If you want to know, I think, why you have those values to go between on a computer. And it always starts at 150, and I think you can move it up to, I typically, I like to put it, depending on the machine, this machine's actually a little too colorful, So I'll move it up to like 175, 180 when I stream it. But some machines, like Total Nuclear Annihilation, just are amazing with extra saturation turned on. They look awesome, I think, in my opinion. Now, I've definitely had people call me out for unrealistic colors, like, oh my god. But I don't know. I have really bad eyesight. Everything's blurry and super colorful to me. So I'm okay with it. Wolfman never Wolfman always makes me laugh he says I check the exposure triangle diagram and then I set everything to auto okay so you guys got to see this I feel like at all of the dialed in settings I'm going to play one more and then we can start removing things and see what it looks like in low light with those same dialed in settings kind of work our way back down I'm really looking forward to that. So you guys will get to see how these cameras deal with low light dialed in, which should be very illuminating. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Now, a really good question here is, Manu, you're going to put this on your YouTube channel afterwards. And what I kind of want to do is post this along with pictures of my setup right now. I think that would be really helpful to see all of the lights and where they're positioned and how bright they are and kind of the mounting equipment and then also see this ridiculous thing. And just for funsies, I do want to show you the fact that we have counterweighted the boom mic stand with a handsaw because that's just awesome. So how will people be able to go and see those things once you've posted this video to YouTube? I'm going to edit those into the video. So you can see it. Maybe in this section right here, but I'll edit those. You send me some shots and I'll edit those into the video so you can all see it. That's going to be on Mystery Pinball Theater 3000 on YouTube.
    56:15
    Okay, probably, let's see. Auto-orbit, auto-orbit. I have such a hard time dialing in that CX-405 thing in. I do auto-focus on that too. Christian, just take it home with you. And just fool around and just hit the buttons. George actually showed me yesterday in our dual stream of Ghostbusters. he showed me before the show how to do something i never thought i could do on the cx405 and so i was like thank you so that's what we're doing these these kind of things about because i don't want you to go out and spend a thousand dollars on a playfield camera you don't need to think about it your final delivery guys is six megabits per second to twitch yep at 1080 what are you doing Like, even Jack Danger with his eight megabits per second, that's, that's, he's not gonna go out and get a red epic to shoot a 60 frames per second play field.
    57:18
    All right, yes, and go to outer orbit, because it's awesome. All right now I turning off the LED cameras here Sorry the LED lights leaving the Penn Stadium extremes on Swizzle Fish welcome to the stream Boom. So George's augmented light LED panels are gone. All we have... Now, I've got to go back in and dial in the exposure. If you remember, the first thing I did, dialing in and getting everything set correctly, was to actually disable auto exposure and kind of dial it in the way I wanted it. So now I've got to go back in. Oh, you're actually going to adjust them now? I got to, right? In order to show what it can do, I guess, at low light settings.
    58:03
    Right? What do you guys think? Is that a thing we can do? It just takes a sec. Oh, I got to turn this up now. All right. I'm trying to keep up with the chat. Holy smokes.
    58:12
    Yeah. TLDR. Lights fix 90% of the problems. Thank you, Aon. they really really do and I've said that so many times Jedi I hope all of the crap I gave you about lighting and wanting more lighting and I'm like I have four lights on the play field I want to increase it to six I hope that makes more sense now after watching this or maybe it doesn't I'm going to have to go back and watch this again just so that way I can take a look at actually how it helped or didn't help as much as maybe I thought it was but I have been such a brat about lighting and I feel like that's because of mp3k and everything you've taught me about cameras and lighting so far hopefully this looks a little bit better by the way fliptonics is best to use the lowest iso your lighting lets you get away with 100 turn of this yeah well look I you're not going to find the iso on a c920 um but yeah right um Hey, it's Dog. Is sound through the internal mic of the camera? No. Typically, we're going to use a microphone. We're going to use a separate USB microphone. George has a separate USB microphone. I have a little separate USB microphone. Most pinball spinners are going to use a separate microphone. Yeah, that's not the topic. But really quick, what microphone are you using? Because you sound amazing, Manu. Well, this is not what I use for pinball.
    59:45
    This is a condenser. This is like a $200 connector microphone. Okay. But what I use for pinball, believe it or not, is it's a $29 USB microphone.
    59:56
    It's like called a Fifine or something, and it's got a gain dial on it. It's $29. Well, it was before the pandemic.
    60:04
    But I've seen a lot of people use Blue Yetis. People use different type of... Yeah, I'm using the Blue Yeti X. and I'm in a garage which I think if I don't sound awful really says something about the microphone oh boy well only one exposure system can be manual can be unmanual right I'm sorry I didn't scroll back enough to see hey this is awesome thank you Swizzlefish um oh okay flipstream you you got them um god that 920 looks amazing can i just throw that out there for the cheapest of the bunch at 30 frames per second with lighting i'd like the color looks really good i don't know how it looks as i'm playing like i i'm assuming it just looks like a decent 30 frames per second and the a6400 and the handycam look kind of buttery but oh by the way how does the and i'm sorry i'm interrupting as you were going through chat but how does the keo look after the settings changes i feel like it got better like even here with my hand moving it doesn't look as awful it has got better it's still in last place but it's a much better last place than it then it then it and then it looks on its auto settings um we love pimble says it would also be interesting to compare the c920 the 922 with 60 frames per second yes it would It would. I sold my I gave my 922 to my brother who promised me that he would start streaming Warhammer 40K and and has yet to ever actually do it. I sent him I sent him two cameras. I sent him my Razer microphone, which I just bashed a little bit ago. I sent him hardware for mounting everything and a laptop. He's got a terrible brother. He's going to do it one of these days because he's amazing at it. I feel like, we love pinball, I feel like many streamers start with the C922 because they see the 60 frames per second, 1080, and their eyes, they just fall in love. And then if anyone asks me to buy that camera, I say, please run for the hills, don't buy that camera. And the reason I say don't buy that camera is because it is a USB hog, and it doesn't play well with other things you're going to want to add unless your machine is insanely beefy. But all that being said, yes, I would love to see a comparison between the two. That would be something that we could probably do at some point. Yeah.
    62:42
    Okay, so now I turned off all of the external lighting, and I'm going through and cleaning up the Logitech right now.
    62:50
    I'm going to go through and hit up the Razer, the Razer Kio. Let's go in here. Wait a minute. Flipstream, I don't know if you're correct. We love Flimble. 922 doesn't do 1080p 60, only 1080p 30. Correct.
    63:07
    Which one does 1080p 60? That's the 9, sorry, I thought you said 920. No, the 922 does 1080p 60. It's supposed to. But we don't think it actually does. I don't think it actually, yeah, I don't think it achieves it. Written on the box it says 1080p 60. but neither George or I really if you really if you put it up against a 1080p 60 like the 405 okay so um here we go the handycam I never took off of auto exposure because it just does a great job I didn't have to dial it in um so it's on auto exposure 920 I turned up a little bit the kio I turned up a little bit and the a6400 is also on auto exposure so I didn't mess with that and so now we're playing without any external lighting this is just the game by itself oh jedi you've got the same microphone that's cool cool um so there's a lot of chat which is this is terrific there's a lot of chat about alternatives you can get um cheaper things this is great this is where we want we want this kind of mix and exchange of information because george and I, we love facts. I mean, why use facts when you have your feelings to take you through life? No, no, no. We want to use facts. But I feel, yeah, but I go research. Okay. Apparently my other camera was kind of helping out or my other light was kind of helping out a little bit. Wow. Look at that. So, so, so what are we looking at right now? There is no lighting on this game. Wow. Yeah. I mean, besides ambient lighting, essentially in the room.
    64:52
    So we've completely lost the webcam. They're gone. The Razer and the Logitech. When the general illumination is not happening on the table, if you saw that at moment when the game was over and it was just flashing little bits, the 405 and the 6400 are still visible. Specifically, the Razer and Logitech are not set to automatic ISO. They're still set to static and I'm dialing in the settings, if you remember. So both Sonys are set to auto, which is why they're showing the play field at no light. So the Razer and the Logitech 920, I have set to look really as good as I thought I could make it by manually setting those. I could go set them to auto, but I think they look awful at auto.
    65:34
    Like the camera just doesn't do anywhere near as good of a job as Sony does of auto detecting what the auto will be. But, you know, after I play a ball, I'll switch the Razer and Logitech over to auto so we can see that.
    65:45
    Outer orbit, yes. Thank you for the clarification. I just jumped into the last part. That's true. Flipstream says you should really do 720p60. The Logitech is likely to improve in quality. You may have a point there, Flipstream.
    65:59
    Not this one, but a different one. A different one, yeah. Hey, it's Dog. MPT3K, please remind me which mic you use. It's called a Fifine. It's from a company called Fifine. F-I-F-I-N-E. Just look it up on Amazon. I don't remember the model. Sorry, but it's the cheap one.
    66:17
    We Love Pinball, I think 50, yes, yes. We Love Pinball said flip stream, I think 60 frames per second is more important than 1080p. Correct. We agree. Yep.
    66:28
    We Love Pinball says I can test it for you guys. I have both cameras. Terrific. That would be great. Yeah, that would be really cool. Is We Love Pinball in the Discord? Are you in Discord? Yes, he is. And he has his own Discord. By the way, We Love Pinball also streams. We have battled We Love Pinball. He destroyed me on Jurassic Park. It was a wonderful time. Oh, I remember that.
    66:53
    Let's see. The C922 doesn't do 1080p60. I have one. It's a minor upgrade to the C920. I definitely bought the 922, and I feel like on the box it said it did 60 frames per second, but I think in actuality it never gets there. Yeah. I mean, I agree with you. and flipstream I'm gonna go take a look at it because it's in a box somewhere in my house I use the 920s or I don't use a webcam at all Brio does 1080p 60 Brio was a whole different conversation Brio Minnesota pinball do you really need more than three cams total I think it's nice to I okay so this is this has been a recent change for me I've started adding in a fourth camera uh to do like on black knight i'll zoom it in on the night so you kind of get to see what they're doing um on attack from mars i had it on the the actual the big ufo i like i pick something i try to find on each game where i can kind of zoom in on it on it uh i have uh the mod on ghostbusters not installed yet it's the last mod i have yet to install uh that will actually make the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man during the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man mode actually start walking left and right. So I would put it on there for Ghostbusters. And all of that said, the other place I would put it if I didn't know where else would be to actually mount it inside with a light. So that way I could show the tilt ball, which I used to do back in the day, but it's a real pain in the butt because getting light under the playfield consistent usually requires batteries and that requires remembering to charge the batteries on the lights, which is really irritating.
    68:45
    Okay. What else was I, oh, we were going to go back through and set the Razor and Logitech to auto. And then I think we've kind of run the whole gamut between these four cameras.
    68:59
    I think, I think Flipstream is blowing my mind. why do I remember 60 frames per second for the 922? I also remember that. Maybe they changed their marketing.
    69:16
    They're blowing my mind. I'm not seeing any history of 60 frames per second being claimed for the 922.
    69:23
    Maybe just made it up then, apparently. Wow. 922 has 720p with 60 frames per second. Okay. Oh. Okay.
    69:37
    Marketing. I bought a couple of Blackmagic micro cinemas for around $600 on eBay. Okay. That's out of orbit. You know what, Christian? I got to come down to the shop and just see what the fuck that you put together.
    69:59
    You need to start that another quarter of a second earlier. and continue pressing it after the K. Just FYI, because I heard the F and I heard the K. All I missed was the U. What the...
    70:17
    In that shop. What are we doing now, George? Okay, so now everything is set to auto, and we're back to no lighting on any of this.
    70:30
    So there's no external lighting. all three. That's right, I'm not supposed to do that because of the handsaw. Oh boy.
    70:39
    So there's no external lighting. I am going to move this back that way, just in here. Yeah. I gotta tell you, the 6400 and the 405 are the only ones really surviving. The 920 is doing decently. Now, the 920 looks like every beginner streamer's stream. Yep. Really quick. Now, just to show you guys what happens here. Everything is on auto. Let's plug it all back in. So this is all four lights on the play field. Let's play the next ball like this because I have a feeling the action is going to get a lot smoother if I can keep a ball going.
    71:20
    Fourth camera is a luxury. Attack from Philly says. Absolutely. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. We love Pimlicis My playfield capture I'm currently using The 4K Handycam From Sony Cool And Winradio Sorry if covered Was there a Capture card Recommendation Instead of Well Okay I'm gonna stop you right there We're not talking about Capture cards today That's I think we talked about Capture cards in a previous Episode of Second Street Super Bowl That you can find On Mr. Pimple Theater 3000 YouTube channel? Yes.
    71:58
    Do you want to throw up a link to that playlist or to your channel as a whole? Yeah. That would be cool to get people there. I'll throw it up directly to the playlist. But yeah, when that would that's a long conversation.
    72:16
    And we're happy to have that. I think that's a link to a playlist. I think I did this right. Christian sent me a photo on Facebook.
    72:29
    What are you sending me? Out of orbit, you're sending me stuff secretly in the chat. Oh, geez. I wish I could share. Oh, my God. I wish I could share this with chat. You're not moving that rig. You're not moving that rig, Christian. That rig is not going anywhere. Oh, I thought you meant my rig. And my rig, if I take the handsaw off as a counterweight, is going to fall and destroy everything. Which, I can't wait to see the full video once I send you all the pics of how this is set up, because this is definitely embarrassing. But at the same time, I'm kind of proud of myself, because I came up with this very quickly. And the number of cameras up here right now is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Yes.
    73:18
    So I just want to say this, and I think this is the last thing I say before we wrap it up. Okay. Because, I mean, I don't want to wrap it up. I would love people to have a conversation and chat and everything.
    73:29
    Everybody who's here right now, who's sticking around, who's stuck around for the long haul, we're all in this to get the best dreams possible. So we're all going to have input on this discussion. We all have different access to different cameras. We all have different skills.
    73:49
    So it'd be great if, you know, there's George's Discord. We have a StreamTech channel on there. We talk about this stuff all day long.
    74:01
    George and I just wanted to share some of this information and discover stuff on our own about lighting and play fields. And what do you got, George?
    74:10
    Nothing. Honestly, ditto everything you said. There's an amazing community around pinball on the Discord that we have. If you hit, in fact, I'll just throw that in there. If you guys want to jump into the Discord, if you're not already there, lots of wonderful chat. You can click that link to join that's going on there. At the same time, Tilt Forums, I just found recently, and it's amazing, lots of great conversation going on Tilt Forums. Manu, did you have anything else you wanted to go over tonight? No, I'm ready to watch this again. Okay, cool. Awesome. that was super fun I can't wait to go back and watch it myself so that way I can hopefully learn because while I was playing I really couldn't look to see what the differences were so I'm kind of excited to go back and see what those differences were anyway you guys my name is George and with me tonight we had Manu from MPT3K if you have not given him a follow you need to do so if you guys want access to this video once it's up on YouTube go check out Mystery Pinball Theater 3000 I think Manu put a link up we'll make sure to get that link up on Discord to this video once Manu has gone through and done some editing. Otherwise, throw follows out to everybody. Lots of content coming out right now. Everybody has a bunch of extra time, and for the people that don't have extra time, they're just doing it because they can. Lots of fun pinball, lots of games, and lots of good times. You guys have a wonderful night and a safe and fun Memorial Day tomorrow. If you're in the U.S., if you're not, just enjoy your Monday. Talk to y'all later.
    75:42
    Thank you. Tokai Kosuke Jos出来