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67: Yo, Enough Timers!

Pinball Party Podcast·podcast_episode·50m 11s·analyzed·Mar 27, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Host criticizes pinball timers as antiquated mechanics while expressing frustration over industry communication and vaulting practices.

Summary

The host of Pinball Party Podcast delivers a passionate rant against timer mechanics in pinball modes, arguing they create unnecessary urgency and anxiety rather than fun. He discusses Stern's rumored sale, the frustration of unclear release timelines and vaulting strategies that create FOMO, and expresses enthusiasm for virtual pinball as a way to demo machines before purchase.

Key Claims

  • Timers in pinball modes serve no purpose outside of tournaments and high-volume locations, and even then the justification is weak

    medium confidence · Host's opinion based on personal experience; calls for listeners to justify timers in competitive play

  • Jurassic Park's generous timers and unobtrusive design make the game more enjoyable than games with constant tight timers

    high confidence · Host describes specific gameplay experience with paddocks modes and missile shot urgency

  • Stern's lack of transparency about release dates and product pipeline creates market anxiety and prevents informed purchasing decisions

    high confidence · Host provides detailed personal examples of being frozen on purchase decisions due to uncertainty about upcoming releases and vaulting

  • Expression Lights for Foo Fighters has been delayed; initially told it would come out 'pretty quick' at MGC last year, but still no definitive release date a year later

    medium confidence · Host recalls conversation with Tanyo at MGC approximately 50 weeks ago

  • Stern's potential sale could either improve transparency and planning or worsen the situation depending on the buyer

    medium confidence · Host acknowledges this is speculation but explores both positive and negative scenarios

  • Virtual pinball simulations have directly led to three confirmed hardware purchases: Iron Man, Walking Dead Pro, and Metallica Pro

    high confidence · Host states 'I have boughten... how many games? Three. I can instantly think of three games'

  • Video game publishers are more transparent about release timelines than pinball manufacturers, even with similar licensing constraints

    medium confidence · Host compares video game announcement practices to pinball industry practices

  • There should be a pause button in pinball machines, similar to home video game consoles, except for specific game themes designed for difficulty like From Software-style games

Notable Quotes

  • “I am so sick of timers in pinball. I struggle to think of any reason to continue to have them in modes.”

    Host @ early — Core thesis of the episode; sets up extended argument against timer mechanics

  • “I've never been a time where I've enjoyed a timer in a mode. I've always hated it.”

    Host @ mid-early — Personal conviction statement; emphasizes consistency of viewpoint

  • “Why don't we have a pause button in pinball? Holy shit! I wasn't even planning on coming up with that.”

    Host @ mid — Spontaneous design suggestion; reveals frustration extends to lack of quality-of-life features

  • “It's almost like a FOMO built in to a FOMO hobby. I don't want it. I've had enough.”

    Host @ mid — Articulates intersection of timer anxiety and broader industry uncertainty

  • “I wouldn't think so. Sure, you can always do the fear factor and say, oh my God, it's terrible. They're going to sell out and then they're going to charge us all this money. Probably not. Maybe they suddenly have a bunch more money to work with.”

    Host @ late-early — Balanced perspective on Stern sale rumors; acknowledges both risks and potential benefits

  • “I have no idea and it's it sucks for me personally. I would just like to know. I don't have millions of dollars to just make fuck up decisions on pinball machines.”

    Host @ mid — Personal economic vulnerability; explains why lack of transparency damages customer confidence

  • “There is many times where I'll just straight ask Zach, hey man, have you heard this rumor? Because I want to buy this from you but I'm hesitant. He will shoot me straight up 99 out of 100 times.”

    Host @ late-early — Endorsement of Flipping Out Pinball's reliability; positions them as trustworthy amid industry opacity

  • “I have boughten... how many games? Three. I can instantly think of three games I've boughten specifically because I've tested them out first on virtual pinball.”

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyJersey Jack Pinball (JJP)companyZach SharpepersonBad PennyvenueElectric Batvenue/podcastJurassic ParkgameFoo FightersgameGodzillagame

Signals

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Host articulates strong design philosophy opposing timer mechanics in pinball, arguing they create artificial urgency without gameplay value in home environments

    high · Extended section comparing timers to camping in video games; specific examples with Jurassic Park, Foo Fighters, Godzilla

  • ?

    product_strategy: Host expresses frustration with Stern's unclear vaulting strategy and lack of advance notice, creating market uncertainty and FOMO for buyers

    high · Multiple examples of not buying games due to vaulting fears; mention of sudden announcements via email; comparison to video game industry practices

  • ?

    business_signal: Unconfirmed rumors circulating about Stern Pinball potential sale; community split between fear and optimism about implications

    medium · Host: 'There's, you know, rumors that Stern is going to sell, right? Rumors, probably some legit'

  • $

    market_signal: Game values fluctuate sharply based on surprise announcements (e.g., black and white variants) and vaulting news, creating uncertainty for owners

    high · Host concerned about Godzilla value tanking if black/white variant announced; discusses timing purchases to avoid losses

  • ?

    content_signal: Host's podcast gaining enough reach that community members text him privately seeking insider information about upcoming releases

    medium · Host mentions frequent texts from listeners asking 'Should I buy this?' and 'Is this actually gonna come out?'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.151

0:00
Good evening ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight's entertainments. Yeah. Heath Ledger. God, just killed it. Dark Knight. He plays the Joker. Have you heard of it? It's a good movie. Figure it out. I'm a little aimless this time. I didn't play too much pinball this week, but there was pinball news. Pinball news, there's stuff coming up and a few things to hit record about so I've hit record and we're going. I am so sick of timers in pinball. I struggle to think of any reason to continue to have them in modes. Aside from tournaments, yeah, or on location, I guess, if you're like Electric Bat, when you have so much volume, or Bad Penny, incredible, St. Paul Arcade, hey? Hey, man, thank you for the shout out, Bad Penny. I guess, you know, we're shouting each other out. Let's just keep that train rolling. But yeah, Electric Bat.
1:14
Go check out their Electric Bat cast last week. Fucking phenomenal episode. Great job, Cale and Rachel. Huge fan. Big fan of the show.
1:23
To the point of timers in pinball. Unless you're them and you maybe do need to create some space in, hey, Joe Schmo's been playing Godzilla for six hours. Susie wants her turn. Sure. Your tournaments so you don't, I guess, I don't, I'm even struggling to think of a reason in tournaments. Please write in pinballpartypodcasts at gmail.com of why you would need a timer in a mode in tournament. I'm thinking what I was about to compare it to is like camping in a first person shooter in video games. For those unaware of what camping means in video games, it's if you're playing a first person shooter or you know like a League of Legends or Dota or something, I'm not sure if camping, whatever that's called in there, I haven't played enough of that, Heroes of the Storm a little bit. Camping is essentially you're hiding in a spot in the video game either behind some barrier or somewhere where people don't go often or it's unseen to a certain extent and And you're just sitting there, camping, waiting to snipe someone or shoot someone in the game, not in real life, maybe. Camping is looked down upon to a certain extent because if you're not moving around in certain games, deathmatch, team slayer, whatever you'd like, where the goal is to kill each other, other teams, if you're not moving out in the open to try to get kills, you're essentially taking opportunity away from the other person to score points, to kill you, all that stuff. So it's frowned upon in so many words in the zeitgeist of video games. Camping is looked down upon. So the only thing I could think of for a tournament would be you don't want to stop timers because maybe someone would camp, you know, trap up with the ball. But really, what would be the point there? Unless you're just, I don't know, a nihilist or something and you're like, I'm just going to join this tournament and trap the ball and sit there and just waste everyone's time. I applaud that, mind you, from a certain point of view. You know, like, that's fucked. Good work. But, uh, yeah, I can't... Timers and modes in tournaments. Uh, okay, I don't see the point there either. Uh, from playing pinball, one of my favorite things about my favorite game, Jurassic Park, is that the timers are very unobtrusive mainly for let's say that you remain paddock modes hunting a dinosaur to the layman you start a mode and then you're hitting the rescues to capture the people and then you get the dinosaur out of there it's a mode you hit a couple shots and you hit a final shot and ta-da you did it it's fantastic the timer is so generous and if you do not do it in time it kind of just I don't say doesn't matter the stakes are low you have a lot of time you can set up your shots and if you drain you just continue to go and you're trying to accomplish said goal and that fits my play style one of them overall of don't Cause hurry up all the time. I think what makes the missile shot in Jurassic Park stand out so much and why it's so great aside from it's a severely well-designed shot, the urgency, the trap up. I hesitate to say genius because it's overused. In the world of pinball, it is a shining example of a pinball moment or something to do. But it's because in contrast to the rest of the game, it's very... I was about to say relaxed. Judge me on the word I use there, but Jurassic Park, in general, the timers are somewhat relaxed. So that mode stands out even more, makes it even better, better, you know. In the world of, to use that word, in the world of geniuses, no one's a genius, right? I mean, you have no difference.

medium confidence · Host's design philosophy suggestion; compares to Dark Souls, Sekiro, and Black Knight: Sword of Rage

  • Distributors often don't have reliable information about upcoming releases and Stern doesn't communicate timelines clearly to them

    medium confidence · Host mentions 'All the distributors don't know. They say that Stern doesn't tell them.'

  • Flipping Out Pinball (Zach Sharpe) is consistently reliable and honest about what information is or isn't available regarding upcoming releases

    high confidence · Host provides specific endorsement: 'He will shoot me straight up 99 out of 100 times'

    • Host @ late — Concrete evidence of virtual pinball's commercial impact on hardware sales

  • “If I could turn off timers right now in every game I would play, I would do it instantly. And if I could pause it to grab a coke or take a piss, I would shake your hand.”

    Host @ mid — Summarizes core desire; expresses willingness to accept being wrong if timers removed

  • “Just tell us like, what is the plan? Do you make more money off of home buyers or location? Just tell, who cares?”

    Host @ late-early — Appeals for basic business transparency; frames as mutually beneficial

    • Star Wars
    game
    Black Knight: Sword of Ragegame
    Iron Mangame
    Walking Dead Progame
    Metallica Progame
    Iron Maidengame
    VPIN Workshoporganization
    Tanyoperson
    MGC (Midwest Gaming Classic)event
    P3company
    Doc Mondayperson
    Eau Claire Reboot Socialvenue
    Nudge Pinballcompany/operator
    ?

    technology_signal: Virtual pinball (VPIN Workshop) functioning as effective demo tool that directly drives hardware sales; host cites three confirmed purchases

    high · Iron Man, Walking Dead Pro, Metallica Pro all purchased after virtual testing; host encourages others to use virtual pinball for this purpose

  • ?

    community_signal: Widespread community frustration with manufacturer opacity regarding release dates, creating anxiety and hindering informed purchasing

    high · Host notes 'the amount of conversations that happen, whether it's a pin side, or pick a forum, or text, about the unknown'

  • ?

    event_signal: MGC (Midwest Gaming Classic) upcoming in two weeks; historically used as announcement venue for new releases

    medium · Host references MGC visit approximately 50 weeks ago; mentions upcoming MGC in two weeks

  • ?

    product_concern: Host criticizes widespread adoption of timers in game modes as outdated mechanic that diminishes home player experience

    high · Extended rant comparing timers to arcade-era necessity that no longer applies; argues timers harm rather than enhance gameplay for home players

  • ?

    venue_signal: Small local pinball community; host and Doc Monday coordinate visits to Eau Claire Reboot Social; limited machines nearby

    medium · Host mentions living in same town as Doc Monday; notes Iron Maiden closest location is 1.5 hour drive to Bad Penny

  • ?

    operational_signal: Distributors lack clear information from manufacturers about upcoming releases, creating information vacuum that harms the entire distribution chain

    medium · Host: 'All the distributors don't know. They say that Stern doesn't tell them. They don't know. No clue.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Growing frustration among home buyers about industry opacity, with effect on purchasing behavior (people holding cash, afraid to commit)

    high · Host notes people are 'just afraid to buy stuff they don't know'; mentions constant hesitation in purchasing decisions

    • 5:39
    So that game where that needs a timer, of course, because it's a part of the difficulty, it's a part of the challenge, all that. But seems like every pinball mode has a timer to just say, hit these shots within 20 seconds or else it stops or started over. And I struggle to find the fun in that. Maybe more so that now it's a home environment, that it's just not necessary. Like the timer in Mario, not super necessary. It's okay. Maybe back in the day it was like an antiquated thing from arcade. You know, it's like having a coin door in a machine at home. It's not necessary. Pinball, they don't make separate like a home video console pinball version, so I get why there's a coin door and it's not the same thing. But maybe, you know, you'd want to have the player on location play only a certain amount of time for quarters, you know, in pinball. And so you'd put timers in so things would end. Yeah, and it's... I don't like it. I don't want it at home. I don't find any benefit. Pick a game. What game? Um, you, what game? Oh, Foo Fighters, okay, we can talk about Foo Fighters. There's one, right? There's modes, hit the lit shots, and a timer, when it's done, the mode's over. Okay, I mean, why you... I'm at home and like, alright, you better hurry up and finish this mode in 20 seconds, or else... Um, I get the fact of maybe ixnay the timer, but say, hey, if you do finish it rather quickly, you get more points, but where's this urgency coming from? Like if you don't play the game fast enough, the game's gonna fucking explode or something. Why? I want to play the game. I want to play the mode. The mode, pick a mode that's awesome and let me just play it until I lose my life, drain a ball or the game is over. The timer escapes me. So yeah, I'm sick of the timers. We don't have timers in multiball. You could trap up three balls and just fucking sit there. Like the guy in the tournament who's just trapping up to chill out, but that's not a epidemic, right? Unless, I mean, if you, if there's a guy that does that, kick him out of the tournament or like be like, nah, that's just Steve. He's weird. We let him in because he pays, I don't know. Timers. I, yeah, it's strong enough that I wrote it down. And ever since I've gotten into this hobby of buying and doing this and becoming stupid about it like all of us, there's never been a time where I've enjoyed a timer in a mode. I've always hated it. Godzilla, something, where like the modes are diverse, the kaiju battles, they're all diverse, like cool, hit the stand up targets, cool, hit the ramps, whatever. Oh, and then you have a timer. Why? Why do I have a timer? Who fucking cares? Keith, do you give a shit if I play this mode in under 20 seconds or not?
    8:44
    Well, or just have two modes of the game when you start. Points or progress, which I've seen, you know, the conversation come up on Pinside recently, which is a very well, a good way to articulate that progress versus points. It's just very succinct. It's just so obvious when you see I'm much more of a progress player, so a timer to me only harms my enjoyment of the game. Unless it's like if you're speed running like in a video game, sure, you know, where you're marrying progress with time points in a certain way. Tim Kitzrow, Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, Laser Los.
    9:55
    www.WillyWickPinball.com I'm not timed. Get fucked. I'm gonna go take a piss. And I'll come back and keep going. Fuck, why don't we have a pause button in pinball? Holy shit! I wasn't even planning on coming up with that. Fuck. How many times? Anyone listening, have you been playing a game, you're in multiball, you're in something, and something happens. The oven timer goes off. The fucking mailman's there who wants you to answer the door Sign for a package or just to say hello and you don't want to talk to him, but he's there or
    11:00
    someone calls work calls because you know you're playing pinball during work your boss calls someone but you got a fucking game going You got a billion a half and in Godzilla and you're like this could go places
    11:13
    But these timers are just pounding me rectally filling me up with bullshit I don't... yeah, timers. Holy shit, remove the timers or just make a progress mode or a tournament mode where you want the timers in there for the gluttons who just want to be... yes, turn my anxiety on. Yeah, fuck yeah, oh god. You have enough anxiety trying to find these games, trying to maintain value in pinball, trying to sell before they lose too much, trying to find the game Tron that you want, trying to find this anxiety all over the place, not knowing which releases are coming up because Stern won't tell you, JJP won't tell you because of licensing or whatever. You can't really plan your money because you don't know what's going to come up. I'm not buying a Ghostbusters right now because they might vault it any fucking day. I'm not buying this game because they might vault it any day. It's so unclear and on top of that when you get the game you start the mode and you better fucking hurry up or else it's like almost like a FOMO built in to a FOMO hobby. I don't want it. I've had enough. Please turn off these fucking timers or at least code me a little bit Let me try it and then like no okay I was totally fucking wrong I don know I would love to be wrong I wouldn't, but I'm saying I'm open to it. If we remove timers or have the option and I'm like, you know, okay, this game is not fun anymore.
    12:47
    But if I could turn off timers right now in every game I would play, I would do it instantly. And if I could pause it to grab a coke or take a piss, I would shake your hand. Let us pause the game just like you can at home on a console, a game console. Unlike Dark Souls. My God, just a game like Black Knight Sword of Rage, don't let you pause it. You know, get fucked. That's awesome. Make it so certain games you just can't. I'm saying that in reference to games like Dark Souls, Sekiro, Bloodborne. From software games, games where not being able to pause a game or going into the menu actually you can't pause it, which is... it adds a layer of difficulty but also at the same time strategy and pleasure to those who want that challenge. So certain games make it a... yeah. Black Knight Sword of Rage. Can't pause it. Awesome. Want the game even more. Or a game like Star Wars. It's like Star Wars should be a different theme for the type of game it is. That type of game is like kind of a brutal, fast, fun, awesome thingy. Kind of like Turtles, you know, which the theme doesn't really match the gameplay in a certain extent, but you get the point. If it's a very family-friendly theme, of course, put a pause button in there. No timers. If you're coming out with, well, you know, Nintendo property Stern pinball games, you know, Put a pause sound in there that mimics the game you might be making. Put... use that. God, collecting coins? I'm just thinking now of Mario. Ehh man, collecting coin sound in a pinball game. Ah! Okay. I've gone on long enough about timers in games, but I really don't see the point. I can't think of a single good reason, aside from when the majority of them aren't being used, To put a timer in a game, or in certain modes that accentuate the hastiness the designer wants you to take that shot. God damn. And while speaking of like a tournament mode and the pinball machines I was watching some of the women's finals over the weekend, turning on Twitch here and there, when you're eating, watching a couple games be like, oh that games from like the thirties I don't want to watch that you know how you do. And then you come back and it's like Godzilla. It's like, oh, okay, I'll watch this. So I'm going through those motions. And you know, okay, to be fair, and then I'm like going back and looking at other videos because when you see an old-ass game like an EM or some shit, I'm like, I'm not gonna watch that. I don't... fuck off. I'll go watch another tournament video where I do some other pinball shit. You ever notice, and you probably do, the people in the audience, audience is not the right word people tournament players in pinball who are waiting their turn and you see him in the background sitting in a chair hanging out you ever seen sadder looking people or more bored as shit people just fucking sitting there The That's what I hear when I see them slouched over. Like, the look on their face is just of absolute boredom dread. I just want to fucking play. Why am I wasting my goddamn time just sitting here?
    16:10
    That's the joy you see when you're watching these pinball tournaments from people behind. So, maybe find a solution to that. If you don't want to miss out on a future episode of Pinball Noise, please consider subscribing but if you still haven't done so, please do so now. Rayder Craney and Stephen Fowl, Lefton Publix So some news, pinball news, not personal pinball news because who gives a shit? Sometimes I play pinball and I enjoy some games and some games I don't. There's the weekly news on that. But so there's, you know, rumors that Stern is going to sell, right? Rumors, probably some legit, I mean, and then, oh, this is bad, this is bad, this is going to happen. and um... I wouldn't think so. Sure, you can always do the fear factor and say, oh my God, it's terrible. They're going to sell out and then they're going to charge us all this money to do all this shit. And you know, you see some of those posts. I don't fuck know who cares. Probably not. Maybe they suddenly have a bunch more money to work with. Maybe they have better inroads into licenses, more influence. People can open more doors. There's a whole positive side to all this if Stern sells. Maybe they can be like, we should start telling the customers when shit actually comes out. Maybe they'll have a better plan of, hey, we're going to release a game. Let's go back to Foo Fighters and say, hey, we got Expression Lights coming. Cool. When? A fucking year or so. So you can make an informed decision. I remember going to MGC last year, which is exactly 50 weeks ago, I think, because I'm going in two weeks or a week and a half, so let's say it's roughly 50 weeks ago. It's a fucking year ago. Foo Fighters was out there. I remember asking Tanyo, I think, hey, man, when is Expression Lights coming out? Oh, yeah, probably pretty quick. You know, nothing against him. Great, dude. Here we are. A year later, they were announced. Eles De La Picada Is it ever gonna end for RollSUIT? Do you know why you gotta teaches? It's because we are free. Otherwise, informations are gonna runs out of our denen. That's all I gotta say. Don't you trust you going to talk about changes to FINAL FIGURE on your pinball often? Be serious… Just… You decide… after you lose your name, for you don't have the factor of the pen approximately, this is important to some of you that better now and will eventually die in the zone. One reason for a Chinese cop, is probably to… They ask the US ب Bunny to him the droit serv juилс що You're worth less because you're vaulting and all these things. It is it does not feel good as a buyer and same goes to not just Stern anyone else that there is nothing about that that feels good at all and I get there's licenses and I get that's a thing but even then just say that just tell us it's we're adults most of us and can usually understand how how things work if you describe of have some sort of cadence have not just random like Like, suddenly announced via, like, uh, an email that goes in your promotions folder in Gmail. Like, Hey, Stern, a new announcement, a whole big fucking thing. Oh, sorry, what? You know, uh, that's, uh, that's odd to me. Looking at other commercial properties that have licensing and all that. Video games, closest counterpart. I mean, it's just, what are we doing here? Plus a lot of the lifeblood in the history of, of a lot of employees of pinball machines are video games. We're gonna always, we're gonna use that all the time. What's the next closest thing? A pool table? What? Fuck. It's a table with felt on it. Some balls. Done. There's no more research.
    20:35
    So, video games usually, the rare ones are the ones that come out and they're like, and it's available today! Or like, and it's next week. Like, oh, that's fucking great. Oftentimes, like, yeah, hey, this game, it's coming out in two years. It's something we're working on. Okay. That, cool. Well, I know that in that sense, I'm going to save $60 for the next, you know, Mario or whatever it may be the next Tears of the Kingdom. Nah, not Tears of the Kingdom. The next Zelda.
    21:06
    Breath of the Wild was fantastic. Tears of the Kingdom. It was too much in the past. So, yeah, Zelda, let's get back to just regular Zelda. It's too much.
    21:18
    It would be nice to know when things are coming out or that, hey, we do have a plan. At least we know there's what, three cornerstones? But imagine being someone who's somewhat new to the hobby in the head. Oh, Stern has three cornerstones coming out this year? What in the fuck does that mean? A cornerstone? Oh, we have three major titles coming out this year with popular licenses. Makes more sense than cornerstone. There's just so much ambiguity that I'm not sure who it serves. It definitely does not serve the consumer in any fashion whatsoever. I, it doesn't, I could say it speaking on behalf of myself and plenty of people who do this, it is so frustrating and even people in the know from like media or you know this podcast stuff or whatever, some of us know some stuff or hear stuff and we, those that spread it often end up not because you know you burn in bridges and all that. That's even people that somehow know we don't even fucking know half the shit and I'm anyone listening I promise there's there's sometimes but I would say 90% with no idea and it's it sucks for me personally I would just like to know I don't have millions of dollars to just make fuck up decisions on pinball machines. So like right now, here's a very real world example of... so MGC is in two weeks. Midwest Gaming Classic. I was about to buy a game. I was gonna buy a Foo Fighters because Expression Lights don't know when they're gonna come out. All the distributors don't know. They say that Stern doesn't tell them. They don't know. No clue. Okay. Am I gonna find something at MGC that might be announced because it's the second quarter of the year? No clue. Okay, should I save my money? Maybe. Um, no, there's hints from other games that are coming out. Okay. Uh, and then P3 haven't really gotten a chance to play that. So don't know. It could actually be great with princess bride or final resistance, which will be there. Okay. Don't know. So not going to spend money yet there. JGP has got something coming out later this year, which is gonna be pretty fucking great. Probably going to spend some money there. Uh, God damn. You're just like frozen with like, I don't know what to do with what should I, what should I do? Cause I have no idea. And the market won't even tell you. Is, Stern selling. Are there games coming out that I should maybe want to wait for? It's not like, let's say I bought a game right now. Foo Fighters. Let's say I bought another Foo Fighters, right? 10 grand. Let's just roughly say. Expression lights and all that kind of stuff. MSRP. 10 grand. Cool. And then find out in a couple weeks, oh, actually, Expression Light kits, they got delayed again. It's like six months. Ah, fuck, man. And then, suddenly, Matrix comes out. Fuck me! Now I gotta somehow sell this thing that people don't want because Expression Lights aren't... Because I want this other game that... Ahhhh. So you just have to time shit. And that sucks. It seriously sucks. Or Metallica, heavily rumored to be, you know, what you guys are doing. I would love to know, like, is it actually gonna be a different game? Is it... Is it gonna be the same game? I'm up for that. I've been working on that for a long time, but I got to get that game. Because it's just not good. It's not. It just doesn't feel good. I'm not alone. I'm not alone, because the amount of conversations that happen, whether it's a pin side, or pick a form, or text, about the unknown and the values and Stern selling and all this stuff you get people just not spending money then You see all the games listed for sale like people are just afraid to buy stuff They don know like when am I gonna be blindsided by suddenly a black and white Godzilla gonna come out next month Shit! And now people want that, and mine's suddenly just tanked in value. And again, it wouldn't be a big deal if it was $50, $60, comparatively, but it is.
    25:24
    So, a long-winded answer to the if Stern sells is that bad, I, it could be, it could also be fucking great. Get some, not quality control, but, uh, well, sure. I don't think they have a problem with that, but get some people to plan this stuff out better or listen to the customers a little more on this stuff. And like, tell us like, what is the plan? Do you make more money off of home buyers or location? I just tell, who cares? I mean, you're, Stern is clearly keeping that close to the vest so that when they do sell, they know the information. I mean, that's why, but do you think it would hurt your sales for the customers to just know your plan? I'm using Stern, but pick anyone, JJP, anyone. I'm just picking on the big guys. Would it hurt us to just know, oh, this is what our business is about, this is where we make more of the money, this is where our focus is, we plan to do this, we plan to do that? I'm going to be so nice for, imagine how nice it would be for me or someone else doing a podcast or making media to just have a general sense, just a general sense. But the gatekeepers are either distributors who also sometimes are making very shady decisions that the quality control of the sales reps, let's say, or the enablement from these pinball companies to these distributors is fucking downright criminal on some of them. So you can't really rely on distributors. You can rely on flipping out pinball. I know that to be true because I rely on them for everything new and used and even honestly to talk about what's coming up.
    27:30
    There is many times where I'll just straight ask Zach, hey man, have you heard this rumor? Because I want to buy this from you but I'm hesitant. He will shoot me straight up 99 out of 100 times. He's like, I have no idea, you tell me. And there's times where I have told him. And he's honest about it. So yeah, I mean, again, this is not a marketing ploy If you'd like to buy me any of the March And that's all, man. Take it easy. I'm a lot of frustration and not knowing and being uncertain. There's been so many sales or, hey, should I buy this? Should I buy that? What do you think? Have you heard how many people have texted me on the side? Is this actually gonna come out? Because I'm gonna wait to buy it until that comes out. Or I don't know if I'll sell it until... It's all the time and it's constant. And it's something that if Stern does sell, maybe they'll fix that or just, yeah, be more mindful of what helps the used market You have my thanks for continuing to support our viewers. Also on our second show here at the bar you will find hundreds of great friends and family like us team members who have partnered this great network for about one and a half years and hope we put as much design that best interests you as possible. If you are not signed up for absolutely nothing the official π курс is up on our website 2 sometime out now. We'll have to wait and see. Nothing to do with Stern now. As I segue, complete whiplash into virtual pinball, something I did a little more over the weekend, which I've done in the past. And I encourage a lot of you to do it because it's the closest you can come to demoing a pinball machine if you can't go on location. Virtual pinball. It's awesome. Is there licensing and weird shit in there? Fuck yeah, there is. But, you know, life finds a way. I have boughten... how many games? Three. I can instantly think of three games I've boughten specifically because I've tested them out first on virtual pinball and been like, yep, I want to buy that game. And I know a few that I've like, oh yeah, no, I don't want that. The ones that I have for sure boughten because of virtual pinball are Iron Man, Walking Dead Pro, and Metallica Pro. I'm John Popadiuk, and I'll see you next time.
    31:32
    The guy is fuck quality. Virtual Pinball Machines. It still works in visual pinball. It's just that they make their own tables. VPN Workshop dot com. And then from there you can get links to their stuff. Shoutout to VPIN Workshop. They have some high quality stuff. They have a TNA, Total Nuclear Annihilation, Game of Thrones. They actually have a Spike 2 game in there. Iron Maiden. And it's, it is so good. I really encourage you guys to check it out. If you have any interest in virtual pinball, they make some of the best stuff out there. And please email in to pinballpartypodcasts at gmail.com if you have better or equally good suggestions that VPW tables. I have like a pack of, you know, hundreds of them. Some of you have probably torrented them the same, you know, you've heard of torrenting. And uh, but VPW have been, oh god, just the best. I wish they made all of these. Um, is this the one, the TNA that they did like per Scott Danesi's like blessing? You have to get the music separately? Actually, I'm not sure, but I remember seeing a stream of that. Uh, but that table is great. Yeah, the Iron Maiden one. God, I played it this weekend just because I wanted to play Iron Maiden. And you know where the closest place I could play Iron Maiden was? Bad Penny, but I didn't want to drive, Bad Penny, St. Paul, but I didn't want to drive an hour and a half I'm a fan of the game because I've played it for a long time. I was playing on a PC and I was playing Iron Maiden Pro. I don't feel bad about it because I've owned that game thrice and I've put in my time. So sue me. They don't include the music with it, the license or anything like that. But maybe I put in my own custom music that I would have done here as well, like Metallica I'm going to be doing some custom music that I would have done here as well. Like, you know, Metallica, Slipknot. And before you stop listening, I'm going to always say Slipknot. Slipknot, ah, there is some good Slipknot out there. If you, as a sound guy, it was also rated, well, their song, Before I Forget was rated by I think best mixed metal song of last 10 years. It was something like that, but rightfully so. Like it was. Remember the actual accolades it got. Before I Forget is a phenomenally well-mixed metal song. Not to get on a tangent, but why not a little bit. Mixing metal is... You're mixing speed and a lot of distortion with, I mean for Slipknot, growling vocals and a lot of mid-range and low mid-range shit to get all that stuff to stick out and actually sound good and energetic and not limit the shit out of it. Before I forget... Before I forget to mention, before I forget the song by Slipknot, again, you're at the gym, you're gonna do your third set of squats, you're doing a heavy set of five, and you're pretty taxed, but you're like, all right, this is the one, put that song on, skip like 10 seconds to really get into it, and there you go. Now you can squat the fucking planet Earth. It's no problem. You also want to kill someone at the same time, but that's what you need when you're squatting heavy. But yeah, Slipknot has some good shit. Wait and bleed. Oh God, back in the day. I agree from afar. It's like Slipknot. It's a bunch of fucking clowns literally and some guys banging on kegs of beer. Why do they have three drummers? They don't need them. But yeah. Anyway, get VPW, Iron Maiden, jam some Slipknot in there. Jam some snot. Any snot fans? If not, Google snot and not what comes out of your nose, but the band snot. Fantastic band from the 90s. I recommend My Ball's Your Chin, The snot song? And your life will just get better if you listen to that. Put in some Slipknot, put in some snot, put in some Metallica, put in some, uh, what, uh, probably some Pantera, Primus. You know, anything that would be at OzFest in the 90s, you're going to want to put in, well, early 90s maybe because it's Iron Maiden. You get the point. So I played a bunch of virtual pinball. VPW wanted to say how great it was on this podcast. I ran into Doc Monday from Nudge Pinball at the local arcade as well, randomly. I like that him and I have this thing of we're like, sometimes we let each other know like, hey, we're going to, we live next to each other. We live in the same town. So for us, there's not a lot of pinball people around. Sometimes we'll be like, hey, heading down to Eau Claire Reboot Social where they play pinball sometimes. I like it almost better this way that we're both, we keep to ourselves and we do our thing. It's awesome when I see him there and hopefully vice versa.
    36:22
    But yeah, like nine times out of ten when I go there to play pinball, he's there. Or I think when he goes, well, no, he goes a lot more than I do because I do this dumb shit, record this and do this. But yeah, it's always great to see him there. Now we have like some tournaments.
    36:37
    Yeah, anyway, it was great to see you, man. I think you're listening, but you know that. I went down there, we played some Godzilla together and then Star Wars and I had such a long Star Wars ball too that he had to go in the middle of it and he had to forfeit the rest of his game. And for me it was the best Star Wars game I ever had and I know a lot of you are like that's nothing for score, it was like 4.5 billion. Got through everything, everything, but again I wasn't point chasing so I'm defensing here, I wasn't, but for me that was my personal best. I got through everything except for the, uh, like to qualify the, the Jedi multiball, is that what it's called? Right? The, the wizard mode? Everything but getting the Jedi Master stand up things somehow. Uh, damn, it was so close, but yeah, that was a lot of fun. Anyway, ran into him and started talking about, hey, what are you doing for MGC? Oh, you know, he's planning on going down. And then I was like well would you like a ticket And he said well what do you mean And I said well one of pinball parties best fans drew emailed in saying hey I have a couple tickets to MGC. I can't go. They're nonrefundable. Would you like to have them? Big fan of the show. And I was like, yeah, man, that is so fucking kind of you. Are you serious? And anyway, Drew, thank you. I know I thanked you via email, but I just wanted to say it again. You did not have to do that, and amazing. It's going to a good cause. Going to Nudge Pinball, Doc, so we can go down there. But yeah, so gave a ticket to Doc. Thank you to Drew. I had the benefit of being, I guess, kind of a nice guy because I gave it to him. But no, it was Drew. It wasn't me. I didn't do shit. Drew gave it to you. So again, Drew, Nudge and Pinball Party owe you a debt of gratitude. So, planned out going to MGC, probably gonna go separate because he's staying with a bunch of cats.
    38:34
    But yeah, Doc Monday from Nudge Pinball will be at MGC. I will be there as well, but I'm not gonna wear like a pinball party shirt or do any of that dumb shit. So, I'll be around if you wanna say hello. I don't know, maybe. I'll be popping around. I think Doc will as well. But yeah, so met up with I'm with Doc, played some pinball, started to like Godzilla more again. Damn it. I don't know what it is. I do know what it is. What I historically haven't liked much about that game aside from everything just does everything when you make a shot. The droopy flippers don't feel as snappy because of just the geometry of the flippers in the game when I'm much more of like a trap and shoot a ball that goes a thousand miles an hour like a Steve Ritchie or Foo Fighters or something like that. This is my thing where Godzilla's a little more controlled chaos, a different type of flow. But I'm even though I've owned it three times, I'm fucking I'm retarded. I, I, I, yeah, I've somehow always alluded the strategy in that game to like make progression. I'm your host, David Van Es, and I'll see you guys next time on Pinball Podcast. Bye. I got one shot and I got five things. Good. I hit that, what? It doesn't feel like you did much. But I'm learning to appreciate it for what it is. Because every time I play that game, after then I go play something like, again, Star Wars or something fast. Oh god, that just feels right at home. So, yeah, it's not like, oh I didn't understand Godzilla or the hype or suddenly I'm just damn fucking stupid. No, I just, it's a different type of game. I think it's a much more different type of game than some may give credit for. Where the more I play it, the more I'm dumbfounded that it is the world's most popular rated game. I can't assume a newbie would enjoy what's happening in that game. So I kinda love that this is still up there onric.annheim, which is awesome. He stole every crisp top gun item from the yard with his original 대� обще standardized invertstab Нет crocodile 미친쪽에 닥다대 나오니ente 였기 human. And he accurately sais that muffins arent 없다. Because I onion lower stu Grandation prints with red金eto. L 나�айт ale All that to say, I'm seeing some bright spots that I didn't see before. All right, it's the evening. I just wanted to turn on the old podcast machine, say hello, bitch about timers, you know, in pinball and give another thought to Stern maybe selling is actually a good thing. Yeah, for those who've been through being bought by another company or vice versa, there There is tons of times where that is a big, big, big win or video game companies when they're bought by others. There's both sides of the coin, but we'll see what happens. And if anything, you know, it's exciting to see what does happen. If there's one last thing I can ask Stern or others of, if you can't give, here's our plan for the year or more clarity on where's the business more important to you, is it the consumer? Is it the location? Yeah, that's what we do right there, drying out cans and tap water or shield magnets. Oh, you can't get that from anything else, do you? I know you can, but they tell you, to come to a store and get a flashback, read that 10 times and then pull it back in. te. Yeah, agreed, cool, buddy. What do we do next? We now have 30-second questions that everyone for tackling the Hong Kong interest, I believe is really important for us. Question one if Hope is online. Hey, hope is live. Yeah, but before we do that, here's our trick. We can now ask you two questions that anyone can compose and then you can pick out which you think are the concerned answers from 200-one-unless answers and bring us back in to the special Cult prep room. We'll think about that and see what so far so far. It would just be nice to know that stuff. So from me and from Doc, thank you to Drew, big fan of the Pinball Party Podcast. Apparently, I don't know why. Thank you for the tickets to MGC. We will be there in a couple of weeks. Thank you to all the patrons that subscribed since the last time. We get a few every time we do some of these deep dives. So the deep dives are going really well. They're a lot of fun. It's a chance to just really narrow focus on a game and just talk about that game only. The history of the game itself, the designers, the trims, everything about the game, our history of it, our first impressions, our long term impressions, the reviews of the game, notable mods for the game, the outlook and how many owners are out there of the game And kind of almost more importantly to me and Zach who are doing it, what's the current used market of that game? And for those that are listening to those, him and I all but obsess over used market value of games, both from doing it so much ourselves and just having a morbid curiosity of watching prices fluctuate. So I can say with as much certainty and sales that we've done, not flipping games, but just done it, I can assure you that we know what we're talking about from an experience standpoint of doing it, not just guessing or browsing pin side and just, oh, we know what the value. Yes, that's part of it. And we're hyper browsing and that's ridiculous on our end. But from actually living it, dealing with the used market sales and trades, both from pin side and Facebook and And Craigslist, thank God Craigslist has somewhat died down. We both dealt with complete fucking psychopaths in the trading and selling world to Richies, to Pores, I don't know if that's, that's not the right vernacular, but you know what I'm saying. To people that only want the best deals, to people who know what they have, you know the landscape of it out there. But yeah, we go deep dives into games and we focus on the market value as well of where I encourage all of you to join those who haven't. It's a great community. We'll do these deep dives. We do them weekly. We miss a week just from work and stuff. We're going to try to get these out. Next time we are tackling Star Wars, Stern's Star Wars, and that was actually per a request on Pinside. I think I was in the Star Wars forum talking about how much better the pro is than the premium. And I stand by that. Fight me, you know. And someone said, oh, well, two things. Someone first said, well, if you like it so much, why don't you own it and keep it for a while? Like, yeah, OK. Well, you clearly don't listen to the show. I'm never going to keep a game. But on that, someone said. Hey, why don't you do Star Wars on the next deep dive? And I said, fuck it, why not? So Patreon exclusive deep dive. Next up is Stern Star Wars. To everyone else, really appreciate the listenership. Please go rate and review. If you can just scroll with your thumb, go down, hit five stars or one star. Again, don't give a shit. It would just be nice to get some more stars on there so I could say, Mom, look it. Be proud of me. Dad, do you love me? Things like that. All right. Thanks for listening everyone. We'll talk to you later. We'll talk to you next time. Drive safe. Sleep well. All that. Kiss your kids. Bye. So I hear that we're related That don't mean you get the time from me I've been fine since the day you left me I've been fine since the day you left me I've been fine, so separated Doing the best I can on my own Now you wanna get to know me What makes you think I owe you anything?
    47:42
    You can't change that I was lonely Or headstrong enough to face it on my own I don't say this all for Mardik I don't wanna see you at my door All I know is this for certain I don't need you, need you anymore If I ask you where I came from Could you give me all I need to know? I had no face to place your name on Fake memories are all I have to show And I could care less if you feel bad Nobody asks about your thoughts anyway So I hear that we're related It's about the most you'll ever hear me say I don't say this on the Mardik I don't wanna see you back for more All I know is this for certain, I don't need you, need you anymore. So I hear that we're related Is that what the most you'll ever hear me say? Not hiçẫ� chæmç 타 nh 주는 clickerão xq a абsun lowkey www.youtube.com