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Melissa Lummus from Netflix’s The Mole - Episode 38

JBS Show·podcast_episode·1h 5m·analyzed·Aug 2, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.027

TL;DR

Melissa Lummus discusses pinball, poker, and Netflix's The Mole on JBS Show.

Summary

Jamie Burchill interviews Melissa Lummus, a Nashville-based pinball player, commentator, professional poker enthusiast, and recent Netflix contestant on The Mole season two. The conversation covers her entry into competitive pinball post-pandemic, her work in film and ESPN sports betting production, her casting on The Mole, and how she manages multiple identities across poker, pinball, and entertainment.

Key Claims

  • Melissa started playing competitive pinball in Nashville in 2021 after the pandemic

    high confidence · Guest directly states: 'I got involved in the Nashville tournament pinball scene after the pandemic' and 'I think I've been back every week I've been in Nashville since that time in 2021.'

  • She got her first pinball machine (Dr. Dude) in 2019 and housed it in her apartment building

    high confidence · Guest states: 'I actually got my first machine in 2019. Which one was it? Dr. Dude' and describes neighbor offering the machine to her.

  • Netflix's The Mole initially planned to label her as a 'competitive pinball player' but changed to 'poker player' in the edit

    high confidence · Guest directly states: 'they were planning on labeling me as a pinball player um as like a competitive pinball player and then would have been awesome...but then a couple weeks before it came out i got a call and they were like hey we want to give you a heads up when we actually got into the edit it makes more sense to directly translate your poker skills'

  • Melissa is not a professional poker player; she plays home games in Nashville where organized poker is illegal

    high confidence · Guest clarifies: 'I am not a professional poker player it is not how I make my money' and 'Poker is not legal in an organized fashion in Tennessee...it's home games.'

  • She works in film production as her primary occupation, not poker or pinball

    high confidence · Guest states: 'I work in film production' and has worked for ESPN on sports betting shows and other production work.

  • She applied to The Mole after mentioning it unprompted in a CAA meeting, was contacted by casting within a week, and went through 2-3 months of audition process

    high confidence · Guest describes: 'I sent in an application and moments later I got a text message that was like hey just casting from the mole can we jump on a call...it was like two or three months of an audition process'

  • Melissa plays pinball regularly at No Quarter in East Nashville, a strikes format tournament venue

    high confidence · Guest states: 'I play at no quarter of the most regularly in East Nashville. It's about five minutes from my house' and describes Wednesday night tournament format.

Notable Quotes

  • “I got involved in the Nashville tournament pinball scene after the pandemic...I immediately felt at home. I think I've been back every week I've been in Nashville since that time in 2021.”

    Melissa Lummus @ early in interview — Establishes her commitment to competitive pinball community after discovering it post-pandemic

  • “they were planning on labeling me as a pinball player...but then a couple weeks before it came out i got a call and they were like...we're gonna call you a poker player”

    Melissa Lummus @ mid-interview — Reveals Netflix's editorial decision to reframe her identity despite pinball being her original descriptor

  • “I am not a professional poker player it is not how I make my money...it's something I do do very regularly that doesn't often get a lot of talking points or attention.”

    Melissa Lummus @ mid-interview — Clarifies misconception created by The Mole's labeling and discusses imposter syndrome in poker community

  • “My comfort zone has always been in all of the lead up that goes into the making of a show. And now you get cast on a show where you're a contestant and you're on camera.”

    Melissa Lummus @ discussing Mole experience — Reveals her production background and transition to on-camera talent

  • “I was represented at my old job in production by CAA...and I remember an early meeting...they were like, what's a show that doesn't exist anymore that you would have loved to have been a part of...and I was like, the Mole...this is before the Netflix reboot”

    Melissa Lummus @ casting story — Documents serendipitous manifestation of The Mole opportunity directly after expressing interest in it

Entities

Melissa LummuspersonJamie BurchillpersonWormhole PinballorganizationThe MoleproductNo QuarterorganizationSpace City OpeneventTexas Pinball FestivaleventGame GalaxyorganizationNational Pinball LeagueorganizationESPNcompany

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Melissa has integrated deeply into Nashville pinball scene post-pandemic, attending tournaments weekly since 2021 and serving as commentator for National Pinball League streams on Broken Diode

    high · Guest states weekly attendance since 2021 and commentary role; Jamie confirms watching her streaming work

  • ?

    event_signal: Multiple pinball festivals and tournaments mentioned as venues where Melissa and Jamie interact (Space City Open, Texas Pinball Festival, Chicago Expo)

    high · Both discuss attending TPF, Houston Arcade Expo, and Chicago Expo; Melissa uncertain about full schedule

  • ?

    community_signal: Nashville pinball community has welcomed Melissa as regular; No Quarter venue integration with adjacent Hubba Hubba karaoke bar creates social hub structure

    high · Detailed description of No Quarter venue, Wednesday tournament format, karaoke integration; Jamie's earlier guest (Jason Eddie) vouches for venue quality

  • $

    market_signal: The Mole's editorial decision to rebrand Melissa from 'pinball player' to 'poker player' despite poker being hobby/home-game only reflects show's framing choices around contestant identities

    high · Direct quote about Netflix's last-minute decision to change descriptor; Melissa's clarification she doesn't play professionally

  • ?

    community_signal: Melissa's background in production informed her comfort on The Mole set; she maintained crew relationships despite being talent, revealing production experience wasn't disclosed to other contestants

    high · Guest states: 'I was not able to disclose at the time to the other cast members that my background is actually in production' and describes knowing crew names/roles

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.196

0:00
Hello, my name is Jamie Burchill, and you are listening to and or watching our podcast called Wormhole Pinball Presents.
0:10
Today, I'm very, very excited to be joined by two great individuals. Today, I'm really excited to be joined by a very special guest. And today, I'm very excited to be joined by two awesome guests all the way from Arizona.
0:25
Hello, and welcome to the Wormhole and our podcast we call Wormhole Pinball Presents. In an interview series, we started to highlight those in pinball and arcades, and today I'm excited to welcome back to the wormhole a pinball player and commentator. She's also a professional poker player and recent contestant on season two of Netflix show called The Mole. Of course, I'm talking to Melissa Loomis. Welcome back to the wormhole, Melissa. Thank you, Jamie. I'm always excited anytime I get to do anything with you and the wormhole crew. Oh, my gosh. It's an extended family for me. not only have I met you here at the Wormhole but I've met you at Space City Open and at TPS so seeing you in a bunch of places we shared a mic together and I helped you behind the scenes in this year's which you could still see on YouTube shameless plug uh where you commentated with Aaron it's true yeah I'm uh born and raised in the Houston area so although I've been in Nashville for about 15 years now I still go back I see family in Houston this still has like a big part of my heart. So it's been awesome to find a pinball family down there too. Yeah, you can. Well, speaking of pinball families, you're going to be watching over and competing with two of our own soon in Nashville. I'm talking about the Jonee girls. Uh-huh. You are right. Those kids have really grown up in front of our eyes here. And this family is the first family of pinball in Houston. So do me a favor, take care of those kids for us. Okay. Keep them out of trouble. Don't you worry. I love those girls. You know, those were some of the first people I met too. The first event I did actually with wormhole was when y'all did the space camp weekend a couple of years ago. So I got to meet the girls and Elizabeth and they're just so sweet and so welcoming. So once I found out they were going to Belmont, I was like, don't you worry. You always have someone here. I'll take good care of them. Didn't you go to Belmont? I did. I graduated.

  • She has a film degree from Belmont University (transferred from Baylor) with minor in theater

    high confidence · Guest states: 'I graduated...I only did my last year at Belmont. I actually transferred there from Baylor...Film and digital media with a minor in theater.'

    • CAA (Creative Arts Agency)company
    Second Cityorganization
    Dr. Dudegame
    Belmont Universityorganization
    The Apprenticeproduct
  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Melissa's initial imposter syndrome about poker community was reversed by positive outreach from established poker players post-Mole casting

    high · Guest states: 'I was very nervous...my imposter syndrome immediately went off' but 'it has been honestly so sweetly the opposite...people reach out and invite me'

    • 2:18
    I feel cheating when I say that because I only did my last year at Belmont. I actually transferred there from Baylor.
    2:24
    But I am a Belmont grad, so I can claim that. What does your degree say? Film and digital media with a minor in theater. But it says Belmont on top, doesn't it? It sure does. All right. We have a lot to talk about between pinball, poker, of course, your entertainment background, and the mole. But let's start with pinball, right? Because most of the people here are going to, you know, they love pinball. Yeah. How long have you been involved in the Nashville pinball scene? I got involved in the Nashville tournament pinball scene after the pandemic. So I've grown up playing in arcades. I actually got my first machine in 2019. Which one was it? Dr. Dude. We got a Dr. Dude back there. I love it. Excellent, right? I love Dr. Dude. I have a neighbor in my building. I live in like a loft building in Nashville and one of my neighbors is a collector and he was getting a new machine. Didn't want to sell the dude yet. It was his first one. And he said, hey, I know you play pinball. Do you want to do you want to take care of the dude for a while? You want to love housing pens? Oh, absolutely. So I spent a lot of my 2020 just hanging out with Dr. Dude, man. And so on the other side of all of that, I had a friend that was in the tournament scene here and said, you know, we do have tournaments. And to be honest, I was a little bit intimidated at first. I was like, oh, no, no, I just play for fun.
    3:59
    And they convinced me to go and it couldn't have been a nicer group of people to stumble into. I immediately felt at home. I think I've been back every week I've been in Nashville since that time in 2021. one. That's, that's the community, right? That's what we love about them. And yeah, where do you play often? I play at no quarter of the most regularly in East Nashville. It's about five minutes from my house. It is my cheers bar, if you will. But you know, we're lucky in Nashville where we have several venues for great pinball. Game Galaxy, Almond Smyrna is a great place. They've got like 300 machines. It's a little more of a drive. So I'm not there as much. But, man, you want some variety. Spend a day at Game Galaxy. We've got Game Terminal. We had Eastside Bolto recently. So we're definitely not in a shortage of pinball where I live, which I'm very grateful for. That's awesome. We had a private event here last night and we do Reynolds. shameless plug number two and we had a country musician from that plays out of nashville his name is uh shout out to jason eddie and and he goes he came in and he grew up playing pinball and we had a private event here and he goes have you ever heard of no quarter i said well funny enough yes i have and he loves no quarter he talks about it all he spent 10 minutes telling me what a great place it is. It is. It's really just the sweetest people. And we also now we're connected in the same building to a bar called Hubba Hubba, which is a tiki bar that does karaoke. So it's become this whole thing on Wednesday night where you can go, you can play a tournament. It strikes format. So if you get out, you can walk next door, watch or partake in some karaoke, come back to no quarter. And it's just this kind of sibling relationship between the two places that's, I mean, it's all of my favorite things in one building, basically. I love karaoke. I'm terrible, but I don't even care. I don't give a shit. I'm just going to, I'm going to go. I'm going to keep going, especially, you know, whatever it is.
    6:13
    It's all song choice. You know, you find something everyone else will sing with you. It doesn't matter if you can sing a lick.
    6:19
    What do I spend? What did I sing? We have a Christmas party here that's a big blowout at the Wormhole, and I sing Neil Diamond's I want to kneel diamond stupid socks. It's so good.
    6:31
    It's so dumb. When you make your way to Nashville, we can hit all the stops in one for you, Jamie. Wow. We thought we had a, uh, we thought we're going to Nashville to pick up that pin we were talking about earlier offline. So that could happen by the way, that could happen before. Are you going to TPF? And, uh, are you going to Houston arcade expo or expo? Those three? um i don't know yet to be honest okay um i'm hoping to i'm kind of figuring out my schedule on the back side of all the madness which we'll get into later but i'm sort of recalibrating and trying to figure out what the rest of the year looks like but i'm just trying to see if i don't go up there if i could see you yeah yeah definitely keep me in the loop yeah because i'm going all three because i'm a glutton so you know i'm crazy so we're gonna go all three but of course we're stream in two of them and the uh the expo we just chill so that's just really fun i can't wait to go to i've never been to chicago expo so i haven't either it's uh it's on the radar it's on the maybe list right now and i'm really really hoping to be able to get up there i'm gonna try to like couple it with some work maybe uh do a little bit in chicago and swing it that way so if anyone needs anything uh email me yeah there we go uh real quick uh national pinball league they stream on a broken diode channel on Twitch. Is that right? Yes, that is correct. Um, we streamed again for the first time this weekend. Um, Daniel Curran and Bonnie Aldrich Curran are the geniuses behind that on the tech side. They started our first streaming channel this past year, um, which has just been an absolute blast. Um, there's a few floating around Nashville, but that's who I do the most commentary with. We did go on a little bit of a hiatus for a bit due to just schedules. And Daniel had an eye surgery. So we all agreed, like, take a little bit of a mini break. But we actually just kicked it back off on the Summer Classic this year. So we'll be back in action. And it's a great time. We really all enjoy it. It's a great channel. I really love you guys. And I love watching. And it's fun. You guys do a good job. Good stream. Thank you. I can take very little credit. I kind of show up and do this. I talk to people all day. But I'm very grateful for my friends that are more technically inclined that can pull off that. I had to learn all this shit. I had to learn it. I had no idea what I was doing. It has taken me a lot of hours, 10,000 hours. I don't know. But it's taken a lot to figure out this. Well, you got it down. You definitely got it down. We always love watching you all as well. Well, the two rigs is awesome at TPF. Wasn't that awesome? to amazing horn god that was so fun i was such a good rig mover for you and aaron it was so fun all right let's talk poker okay um how did you start playing poker okay so this is a very i've been excited to talk to you about this um so i grew up playing in my family my granddad who i was really close to that was like his game him and his buddies got together at their house every week and played poker so i learned when i was like five betting with different matches a game oh my god how cool is that and uh we would sit around and you know some families play monopoly or go fish like we played poker and we would bet with little candies or whatever it was um so i grew up with a love of the game um always played in my family and then when I moved to Nashville, I found a home game here. Poker is not legal in an organized fashion in Tennessee. Okay, like in Houston. Exactly. So it's a it's home games. But I've been playing on the same home game for years and years and years. And it's just a hobby of mine that I love. The funny thing about it is that, well, I do want to clarify this. I am not a professional poker player it is not how I make my money no no no not for you it's um that kind of came out in the show with a lot of the media there right they did the funniest part is that um so we don't pick our own titles on the show right um we go through we film everything and for the entirety of me going through the process of the mole through casting through filming through the edits they were planning on labeling me as a pinball player um as like a competitive pinball player and then would have been awesome i know i was so pumped man i was so pumped um but then a couple weeks before it came out i got a call and they were like hey we want to give you a heads up when we actually got into the edit it makes more sense to directly translate your poker skills because that's kind of what came out in the game so we're gonna call you a poker player um and i'm like well you know i said you could call me whatever you want to spell my name right if you can thanks for having me um you know but it has been funny because it is a love of mine. It's something I do do very regularly that doesn't often get a lot of talking points or attention. So it's been really fun to kind of dig into that. Would you ever play in like a WPT or World Series event? Oh, absolutely. And you know, it's been a silver lining in all of this. Like, to be honest, I was very nervous when I got that call that said, we're going to call you a poker player because my imposter syndrome immediately went off. I was like, well, this is an organized thing. People do this for their living. And all they have to do is Google me and see that I've not played in these like organized tournaments because I compare it to pinball, right? I'm like, someone says we played pinball tournaments. We go to IFPA. It's more the merrier. But I'm like, cool where do they play who are they with sure um so i was very nervous that the poker community was gonna come for me with a pitchfork going yeah who are you and it has been honestly so sweetly the opposite i've had a lot of people reach out and um invite me to come play tournaments if i'm in their city um come play their tables and so that's been a really really like redeeming and wonderful part about this is because now I'm like, yeah, well, I would love to. I would love to go try one of them. Would you go to Vegas or Biloxi and play in some cash games occasionally? Yeah.
    13:33
    I've actually played a lot in Canada and Calgary. I have a lot of really cool casinos, and I've done a good bit of work up there.
    13:41
    And that's one of my favorite things to stumble into and play some cash games there. So I do like playing for money. I just love the game through and through. But, yeah, this may have all now led to where I'm going to go play a tournament. Good. Yeah. I'm sure the Biloxi nugget would love to have you. How far is that?
    14:05
    It's a couple hours. All right. Well, let's get into the camp room. I did one of a girl that plays regularly, and she played in, like, the World Series of Poker, like, ladies' events and all that. She reached out and I was like, you know what? Maybe I'll come do a ladies event first. I'm doing my pinball intimidation all over again.
    14:25
    That imposter syndrome is real. So I have therapy sessions that I give outside of these podcasts. You just send me 50 bucks and we'll talk it out. I don't know. Perfect. We'll figure it out. We played online poker during COVID. and we did poker stars and we had about 65 people in the league uh and we played three day three days a week because we none of us were doing anything and we played three days a night uh ten dollar buy-in two buys two buy-ins and uh didn't hurt feelings right you don't get that but then when you're when then when you're down 500 for the month you start getting upset but uh Oh, yeah. It's such a fun game. And it's so translatable. And honestly, it's been so sweet because I was really close with my grandparents in Lake Jackson, Texas, which is like an hour south of Houston. That's where I grew up. I know exactly where it is. Yeah, right down 288. Yeah, I lived in Pearland forever. Oh, yeah. You're a neighbor.
    15:30
    Yeah, I went to Brazoswood. I grew up in Lake Jackson. I was very, very, very close with my grandparents. And so I've missed them a lot going through the excitement of this show because I just kept thinking, like, man, they would be on cloud nine to get to witness this. And it was really sweet because I felt very close to my granddad. Like, I was like, he did this. He's pulling some strings somewhere. He's like, now we get in my game and they're getting my poker game.
    16:00
    Yeah. Professional poker player. I was like, I went to Janine. Why when it came out, we started watching, right? And I was like, Janine, I don't know if she's a professional poker player or not. And I was like, well, it says it right there. I was like all right well we just go with it Yeah And you know the funny thing with those titles is a lot of them aren what we do for our occupation OK but like there several other people where you know it may not be their job It is like what became relevant to the game play. For me, I work in film production. So from the beginning, they were like, we're not going to say that it's going to be confusing. You know, we can't put you on a TV show going, she works in TV.
    16:49
    And they thought it would be fun to kind of never acknowledge that and then let people search around on the Internet and find it out and make their own conclusions on like what that might mean for my role in the game. OK, so let's talk about the, you know, industry, entertainment industry for a second. You've done a ton of producing and writing. How did you get into the entertainment industry? How did that happen? Yeah, so I was like a full-on theater kid growing up. I had asthma so bad. I did the allergy shots. I had the inhalers. So I was always very into video games and theater. Anything you could do indoors was my world. Don't talk video games with me because we'll be here an hour. Perfect, perfect. We'll do that on part two of the podcast. We will. We'll totally do that. Yeah, we absolutely can.
    17:43
    But yeah, so I grew up in theater and then ended up going to film school at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, and have worked in that field ever since. I mean, on and off, I've always bartended as well, done all kinds of side jobs to make it happen. But the goal was always to work in film. I'm trying to think I did like comedy at Second City I worked at Chicago for a bit did like improv and sketch up there and built like a digital archive under their archivist at Second City most of my most recent film experience in the last couple years has been with ESPN I do a lot of like this sounds crazy I do a lot of comedic writing in the sports betting world specifically for ESPN. That's awesome. And you can do that all the way from Nashville, even though they're produced up in Bristol all the time? Yes. And I travel to Bristol. I've been up there as well. But especially post-pandemic, a lot of our industry has been a lot less tied to being in a specific spot. Sure. So, like, I worked for a production company in Nashville that we actually made two seasons of a show for ESPN called Better Days that's all about sports betting. And it's almost like a drunk history type thing, like real people that have these insane sports betting stories that are part historical, part reenactments. And I got to be head writer on that and lead story producer. So I would travel up to Bristol to work on the parts with talent. But most of it I got to do from here and it's all behind the scenes. So it's been, you know, really funny because that's that's my comfort zone. My comfort zone has always been in all of the lead up that goes into the making of a show. And now you're on you get cast on a show where you're a contestant and you're on camera. That's was that weird?
    19:53
    It yes and no. I absolutely loved it. it helped me realize like oh like I don't have to solve all the problems now you know people are coming up like oh do you need an ice cold towel and I'm like do you need an ice cold towel um but the funny thing was you know they I was not able to disclose at the time to the other cast members that my background is actually in production um so we're on set and I feel more at home with the crew right like I'm like got all my inside jokes with all of them and I remember at some point a couple weeks in and someone was like I feel like you're the favorite with the crew and I remember just being like well yeah because I know all their names you know what I mean And that's not to say that's not to say any kind of like disrespect. It's more so like my brain is used to stepping on a set. And if there's 15 people in the camera department, I know all of their names, all of their backgrounds, because that's part of the job. And you're comfortable there where it's such an intimidating world walking on as talent. And it's just this sea of people with things pointed at you, you know, cameras and audio and everything else that what I wanted to say at the time is like, I'm not the favorite. I just can't turn my brain off from being one of them.
    21:27
    That's a nice trait, though. It's a nice trait. You know, knowing that it's important to people, you know,
    21:35
    Mic'd up by the same people every day, you know, and it is overwhelming. So no one meant it intentionally. It's just like it's a different muscle. It's a different perspective on it all. So let's let's now that we're talking about the mole, let's just talk about it. Netflix season two.
    21:51
    I was a huge fan of season one original on ABC hosted by Anderson Cooper. So when they brought it back to Netflix, I was like, that's a done deal. I have to watch this. Right. and then I saw you on season two and I went, well, that's a definite win. I'm definitely watching this, right? So how do you get cast on this show? How does this happen? Oh, my gosh. So this is great. So I love to hear that you're a fan of the original because I was as well.
    22:22
    You know, season one. She was a really good mole. I remember her vividly. She was a really good mole. Yeah. She was having, like, anxiety about being the mole. Do you remember that? Yes. Yeah. She felt like she was betraying everyone. She was such a good person. They it was. Oh, that was a great season. I don't know where you could find it, but if you could find it anywhere online, it's pretty good season, too. You can you can order the DVDs, which you can play in your PlayStations at home or Xbox if you happen to be an Xbox fan or Xbox. Yeah, like I loved the original mole and that era of reality television is so fun to me because there were no rules yet. There was no formula. It was so chaotic. And it's just normal people stepping in to this kind of new genre.
    23:17
    And so no followers, nothing like that. They just they just pick regular people, you know? Yeah. And they would put them in situations that like now seems so crazy. Like they had people in their 70s just legitimately bullfighting, just like, we'll see what happens. Not that you can't, you know, but it's like there's more of a formula now, which I love the chaos of that. So I was a big fan of the original moles and I was represented at my old job in production by CAA Creative Arts Agency.
    23:56
    And I remember an early meeting with that team. They were like, what's a show that doesn't exist anymore that you would have loved to have been a part of in some way? and at the time like queen's gambit had just finished and so many people on our call were like queen's gambit queen's gambit all these like very cinematic things and i was like you know what i would have liked to have been a part of the mole and this is before the netflix reboot and everyone thought i was doing a bit because it was so not in the realm of anything else we were trying to do. And I was like, no, I'm not kidding. I wish that show would come back and someone needs to reboot it. And it was kind of a non-starter. So fast forward. Um, and I knew layoffs were coming at the company I was with. And it was like my last month there. And we knew our department was basically getting laid off. So I had already started kind of looking at new jobs. And one of my last meetings at CAA, they were like, all right, industry news. Actually, Netflix is renewing. So they had rebooted it and they did season one. They were like, they just announced they're going to renew it for season two. They're bringing the mole back. And it almost started as a joke because sure enough, like within the week, my whole department got the call that we were losing our jobs. And I was like, no big deal. I'm just going to go on the mole. That's my plan. Everyone's like, what's your plan? I was like, I don't know. I'm just going to apply for the mole. Um, which I'd never applied for a TV show on my entire life. I specifically did it because I loved this show. um I sent in an application and moments later I got a text message that was like hey just casting from the mole can we jump on a call we jumped on a call it was like two or three months of an audition process a lot of zoom interviews um physical testing um psychological testing like so much and the whole way through I was just so thrilled to be even like getting an email with the title the mole in it that I never thought about what would happen if I actually got cast and then I did um and three weeks later I was headed to Malaysia so oh my gosh big believer in say out loud all your biggest stupidest goals and dreams because it happened. It literally just happened like that. I have a three to five minute story that I might tell you right now about how I almost made it on The Apprentice. I want to hear it so bad. Are you sure? Because it's like three to five. It might take five minutes for me to tell this story. Don't care. Take ten minutes. I need to hear this story, Jamie. All right. So I haven't told this in a long time, so bear with me. See if I can remember it totally. In 2004 after the second season of The Apprentice. They did with Donald Trump. The show went around the U.S. for a traveling audition. It came to this big hotel in Houston for a casting call, if you will. And I watched the hell out of The Apprentice. I don't know if you did, but it was a top ten show on NBC. All my friends and family heard that it was coming to Houston, and they pushed me to go to this open audition. They're like, you got to go, you got to go. It's a great story. It's once in a lifetime, right? So I go down to this hotel and I wait in line for like five hours. And the line starts moving. And when you get inside the hotel, you had to pick a line. You had to say Donald Trump's Apprentice or Martha Stewart's Apprentice. And I think it was her first season as a Martha Stewart Apprentice, right? um let me preface this real quick hold on before okay ladies and gentlemen this is before martha went to jail and before donald became donald okay so just don't send your emails it's not political it's just it was a television show okay so they put us in two lines depending on who you're going with and then they sit us at a table of 10 people and there's a producer and a camera and there's like 50 tables so i mean they're just spitting people out right and they ask us we're instructed to give our name what we do for a living and why we were here for donald trump's apprentice and not martha stewart's apprentice so pretty simple question right in casting right so everyone goes around and they're all telling their name and what they do and how much they love Donald Trump, right? It's just Donald Trump. Love him, love him, love him. And I'm like, none of these people are going to get on this show.
    29:04
    Okay. I've got to stand out or this is over. And I just wasted six hours of my life, right? So they get to me and I, I, this is terrible. So I go, hello, my name is Xavier Virgil. I'm a partner in an IT staffing firm. I'm interviewing with Donald Trump over Martha Stewart because I really don't think I could work for a woman at this point in my life. And then I looked at a person next, like it's his turn. Right. Now I don't believe this. I don't believe any of this. Okay. I had to be a little outrageous.
    29:38
    The table erupts on me. Right. How can you say this? What's going on with you? Right. You should be embarrassed. And I, the producer looks at me and says, please explain.
    29:50
    And I'm not really proud of any of this, but I go, listen, I live in the real world. I'm a recruiter. I can get a woman candidate to take about 10 to 20 percent less than a man candidate. And if that's the case, how can you say that they're equal? I'm sorry. And oh, they're hammering me, hammering me, hammering me. And this contestant across the table, Melissa, I could see her. She's like shaking. Right. She's like, I work for HP. I work for Carly Fiorina. And HP at this time had just bought Compaq. You grew up in Houston area. So Compact was like huge, right? So just I'm playing this new persona. I go, Carly Fiorina will be gone in two years. Write it down. And they're just yelling, table erupts, right? So by the way, she was fired in two years later, but that had nothing to do with Jamie. No way. I'm just being an idiot. So finally, the producer asked us to go around the table, and we had to hire someone at the table and fire someone at the table. out of nine people i was the only person fired so no surprise i mean they all fired me so the producer goes to me who do you want to hire and fire and i go i i can't see any of these people making it so i'm not going to hire anyone so i guess i would fire them all because they live in fantasy world so we get up from the table and i'm like okay at least i have a story to tell you know that this is over uh everyone's giving me dirty looks and the producer says can you please come with me so i go into the side room and i fill out this application right it's 2004 so i had to fill out application so it's just long have ever been arrested so i thought it takes me like an hour and a half to fill out this application i finally get home and i don't hear back and i'm like wow i have a good story And I get a call on Super Bowl Sunday for me to come in and meet with another producer, one-on-one with closed caption or whatever they call it, you know, okay, to California and their production. Because it was, do you remember Mark Burnett? Mm-hmm, yeah. It was his show. So I'm going to be like telecast to those people, whatever. So I don't want to go on the show. I don't, I got bullied to go. I don't want to move back to New York. All right. Because I have a family here. I've got two kids and a, you know, a business that's doing pretty well. I have no interest in this at this point. But Janine's like, got to do this. It's such a good story. Go back and just dial down the rhetoric. That was her advice, right? Just dial it down. I was like, okay, I'll dial it down. So I go, this is a long story. I told you I sorry No I love it I in I invested All right So I go in for round two and cameras and all this crap And do you ever go into like a meeting and nail it and just know like I won that business or I won that interview That interview is mine, right? Yep. That's how good I did. right?
    33:01
    Bliss, I nailed it. And then I walk out of the room and I'm like, shit, I nailed that. Damn it. So I get a call two days later and they're like, thank you so much. That was great. We'll get back to you. I get a call two days later. We want to fly you to California last round before you meet Donald Trump. We are so excited about you. Right now. I know it's not the last round. I'm sure there's like 10 more rounds. Right. But The producer's telling me this, so whatever. So I couldn't sleep that night. I'm like, I don't want to work for Donald Trump. I don't want to do any of this. And my wife, I finally go, please, can this dream die? This has been a really funny story. Can we just let this die in the wind? And so I called the producer back, and I used this line. I wrote it down because I used this line. It's my favorite line to tell someone, no, I'm sorry the decision's been made.
    33:55
    It's a good line, right? because you can't that you know because they she spent like 10 minutes going no we think we love your personality uh new yorker in houston you got two areas that you know yada yada so that is my long ridiculous story of almost being flown to california to be in the whatever of i just that we cannot now go back in time and watch you be on a 2004 version of the apprentice it was a 2000 and then i think martha's show only lasted like one season it was a disaster it didn't do well oh my gosh and then everyone everyone that knew that story was like virtual that could have been you come on jamie that should have been you right it's like smart play though in knowing how casting works because i mean you're so right and like even if it's not true in what it is just you have to have something to stand out and they have to have something to work with um yeah because they were like i love donald trump yay i was just like yeah this is gonna work guys you guys are just you just wasted five to six hours of your life it's houston it's hot even in the winter it was hot yeah like what separates you it's it's so funny too because even though it didn't like end up in the final cut of it through the entire process that thing for me was competitive pinball truly like from the whole casting process even through filming like that was the thing that netflix was so interested in because people didn't believe not they didn't believe but like so many people hadn't even heard of this world you know they're like well we've heard of pinball but what do you mean you play pinball tournaments like what does that mean um and honestly i joked for a long time that i felt like the only reason i even made it as far as i did in casting was because people were so interested in hearing about like yeah like you gotta talk to this melissa girl she's it's pinball. Yeah, they're like, tell us about this corner of the world that we have not heard about yet, you know? Yeah. But yeah, that's really funny. I am happy that you set the boundary when you knew it was time to end it, but that's a great story, and I wish we could watch it. Well, thank you. I was worried about telling it, and just people sending me IMs, Jamie, that's enough. That's long enough. You're interviewing Melissa, not you. So I'm going to get a real question. What? So you didn't follow through on The Apprentice, but is there a reality show now that you would follow through on if they were like if they came a Colin?
    36:53
    Yeah, Big Brother. I would go on every season of Big Brother forever. And old guys get screwed every year. They get screwed. And I've had it with it. And now I'm an old dude. I'm 51. and I'm sick of it. And I just get in better shape, lose a couple of LBs and let's go because these youngins, man, they're ruining one of my favorite shows. Are you watching? Yeah. Are you watching? Yeah, I'm watching. She's a nightmare.
    37:27
    Yeah. It's a whole thing. And now we have to get another one of us pinball players on a show because my pinball didn't make it into my show. So now we got to do it again. We got to get one of us on these network shows to spread the gospel, you know? I know. That's the joke, right? How do you know someone plays pinball? They open their mouth. They start talking to you, right? Because they're so damn addicted to it. All right, back to the mall. If anyone hasn't seen the show, too bad. We're going to talk spoilers. You can skip this chapter marker, okay?
    38:00
    My cat's freaking out. I'm going to get her real quick so she doesn't meow over our audio. No worries. All right, first question about the mole. How nice is Ari Shapiro in real life? Is he as genuine as he seems to be? Because I liked him from NPR, so he just appears to be authentic. I am obsessed with Ari.
    38:22
    Also, so we didn't know who the host was going to be until he walks out in that first mission. No kidding.
    38:29
    Yeah, for real. Like we had no idea. So we didn't we had heard rumors that maybe Alex Wagner wasn't back, but it wasn't confirmed. So we're standing out there. It's our first day of like filming as a group. And Ari comes through looking like this handsome debonair, almost like Bond villain. And I had never seen what he looked like. I didn't I'd never seen a picture of Ari. So I didn't know who he was. And then he opens his mouth and he's like. hello i'm ari shapiro and i was like i can hear you like i have heard you say i know he's like a voice in the gods to hear his voice and as someone who's trying to do media i'm like oh my god this guy's voice is so great it was incredible i was immediately so excited um yeah he's great and i loved ari i thought he was he did such a good job on the show because he didn't try to like the mole is such a beloved show and people get really attached to the hosts and he didn't try to be anderson he didn't try to be swagner he found like his own version and kind of persona of doing it um that i thought was so great and we all were very attached to ari like i think he's just one of the most fascinating people i've spent time around and i think he was really attached to you guys because the exit walks were real. That wasn't, that didn't seem scripted to me. That seemed like he was just walking you out and saying, man, I'm so sorry. You know, he really like he cared. Truly like he truly did. And, um, I have a fun story I can share about, um, my exit walk actually, because, you know, he has to be very like neutral with us. He's very kind to everyone. Um, but he's very neutral kind of until you get eliminated and then you're like, you're staying in the crew hotel, you see him more. So, um, the night of my elimination, you know, he walks me out and then there's, there's a good, like probably five, 10 minutes before I actually get in the car and he turns to me and he's so excited. And he's like, I have been dying to tell you, I called one of my best friends and I told her about you. Um, because his co-host is Juana Summers who plays in the IFPA. Um, she is a competitive pinball player. She's one of us. And she did this big article, I believe in the New York times about like the community that she found through competitive pinball. So he watched all of our audition tapes as like research basically. Um, and, and saw that I played pinball. and when he was walking me out he was like I called her and I was so excited to tell her that um we have a pinball girl in the cast um and so we really bonded over that too because he's like you have to come to DC we'll get martinis we'll all go play pinball together um but yeah so it was fun because he definitely had his version of himself on the game but then once you're out of the game he could kind of hang a little more um and it's just like an absolute sweetheart like i cannot say enough good things about ari i knew you would say that and i was hoping too because i was hoping you wouldn't go i such a jerk and i would have been so devastated i would have been like oh no if he were i would be like yeah ari did a good job yeah he's good He did a good job.
    42:10
    He did okay. I love him. He's just the best. So obviously you didn't think Sean was the mole because you were eliminated. He really was a fantastic mole, wasn't he? He was incredible.
    42:27
    There's several things that go into it. I think in the beginning, one, it's really hard because the less information you have, the harder it is. You know, one question I've gotten is like, would you do it different? And I'm like, probably not. I just had a blind spot. Like I had not at that point in the game worked with Sean at all. So, well, you know, I had first down a building separately. You're on separate teams. You know, it was, you played. Yeah. I'm looking back. It's, it's not, you know, that's like the fun of that game is there is an element of just situational circumstance to it where you know what you do know but then there's also this pile of what you can't know and what you don't know um and especially in the beginning that's what'll get you but sean was so committed to this kind of goofball, scared, stay-at-home dad, and he never turned it off, ever, ever. My wife, episode two or three, she goes, that guy's the mole. I go, no way. Look at him. And she's like, he's a bumbling clown. There's no way he's that. There's no way he's that bumbling.
    43:44
    Yeah. That was her phrase. But, you know, she got lucky. I don't, I mean, she's just watching. Yeah. But but also it's like he he really did embody that, like, you know, because we're filming. But it's also long days of travel. It's long days of meetings. And like every everyone kind of had their on camera. You turn it on and then not that you're different off camera, but even if someone was just like, OK, now I'm just tired. I'm just going to sleep in the van on the way home. There's some kind of ship, right? Sean never missed a beat on this kind of character he was playing. He never turned it off. Wow. And, you know, him and I are really tight. Like, he is just an absolute sweetheart. But he's like, y'all have no idea how exhausting it was on these, like, 15-hour days to even in the break where we go drink a bottle of water. I have to play this character. He can never turn it off. he can never let his guard down because the game's ruined, right? Yeah. So I thought Ryan was the mole.
    44:56
    Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just convinced that she was doing some shenanigans on the raft right in the beginning. And I was like, this, you know, but congrats to Michael for winning the mole. What a great player. Yeah, he was fantastic and very strategic all the way through. You know, like the thing with the show is they can't ever really lock in. Like they can't make it easy. The fun of it is the audience gets to play along. But I will say like Michael locked in on Sean like fairly early and never wavered from that. So even in the moments where it may look like he's messing up, like he was so strategic that everything was always on purpose with him. You know what I mean? And like there was never there was never a mess up. That was an accident.
    45:48
    He just played a really, really good game. And I was very I was close. Once he focused on Sean, you could really see that Michael was like, all right, I got to throw the scent because I'm on the scent of Sean. I got to throw people my way or Moon's way or anyone to kind of like get them off the thing. how I saw you had an Instagram live with Q the other day is he another authentic great guy yes Q is like he is one of my closest friends from the cast for sure and I think that in Malaysia him and I bonded a ton because we just were in the same headspace going through the experience which is that we were just very grateful to be there even on the hard days like we were just having the time of our lives but also we we were we were like this is tv and we have lives at home right so we want to make sure that however we go through this show and this game that we still can like hold our heads high when we get home um and so him and i were a really great support system for each other when things got really tough because and he's so funny he's such like a pet talk giver you know he's like youth football coach so especially at the summer when things started to get just really like oh we've been here for two months it's getting wild he's always just like i have this message that makes me laugh so hard it's like the day before finale and he's like girl you've made it two months you can't get crazy on me now don't get crazy now like you were about to get on a plane just head held high like keep it together um and i just loved him for that he's he's hysterical we did laugh a lot about his back-to-back elimination oh that hurts feelings that hurt feelings for me to watch because then i thought when he came back i'm like that's such a mole thing to do to bring him in right and give they would give him the answer to three people and And then I started thinking Q is the mole, and I was like, no way. He's too sweet. We knew something was going on, too, because, you know, the whole cast is there for the full two months. No one goes home to America. I was going to ask you that, yeah. Yeah, we're all there the entire time. But we are, like, the eliminated players are kept completely separate from the ones in the game so that it doesn't, for good reason. Totally, yeah. because they don't want to ask you who you voted for right yeah it's over yeah um but when q went home the first time and you can kind of know by like timing we're like man no one's come back you know what i mean like it's been a good amount of time like he didn't join us after his first elimination um and that was very different and weird and fishy we're all kind of like what's going on And then you know a couple days later Hugh comes online with us and he just like he like girl you are not gonna believe what just happened and uh it not it not funny at all but it was funny like he had such a good sense of humor about it that it let us all kind of laugh about together like he's just like the odds of that happening like getting to go back guessing it right doing all that earning all that money for the pot and then just immediately going home. No, that hurt. That hurt my feelings. I felt so bad for him. But I would invite him to the wormhole and play pinball with that dude. How cool would he – I would love to hang out with him and play some pinball. You will. He's always competitive, right? You know he's not going to let anybody just win. Yeah, I'll call him. I'll bring him to Houston for sure. Any excuse I have to hang out with Q, I'll take. That would be so cool. I would geek to meet him because he was my favorite. because when they when niche all right this is we're getting real into it but when he drained that pot 59.5 q lost his mind and it was so real he's like what are we doing here like why are we here truly yeah everything he did through that summer was like so sincere and you know a question that he's gotten a loss to a lot too because like they'll ask me are you really a poker player and I'm like, well, I play poker. I also grocery shop. I wouldn't say that's my job, you know. But so he got a lot of that going like, Hugh, are you really a bus driver? And he's like, yeah, yes, I am. Like he drives the city bus for the city of Pittsburgh. Like he's got he's like a hardcore Steelers fan. He coaches youth sports like he is that guy. So the way he went through that game and he's also got four kids, which are just adorable and great. So in his mind, he was like, I'm giving up a summer with my children to try to win this game to change our lives. And he took that really, really seriously. And it was great. It was wonderful. It's what you want from a show like The Mole. You don't want just a bunch of people trying to. Yeah. No offense to Hannah, but you can't fill it all with Hannah's because I'd be like. I mean, do you talk to Hannah? Do you talk to any of them? We, uh, so we have a group text that all 12 of us are on. Um, so yeah, we've talked basically since we got back last summer. Um, you can hear my cat meowing again. Um, she, so we've all talked on that group text just about every day for the last year because we filmed it a year ago. Also, can you believe I kept that secret for a whole year, Jamie? Well, no, you had an NDA. That's why the NDAs work. It was so hard. It was so hard. Um, but yeah, so I, we all talk as a group, obviously, like some of us are closer in individual ways than others, but it's a very like family dynamic in terms of this crazy experience that we all went through as strangers. Um, yeah. So we're, we're all in touch, But Q, I talk to, you know, there's some I talk to more than others. And I definitely talk to a lot. Sure. So, I mean, was this an adventure of a lifetime? Absolutely. Right? I mean, the wildest dream I could have ever had was your favorite show comes back from the dead.
    52:37
    They put it on Netflix. They let you go on it. and then you spend two months getting paid to play games in this like beautiful region of the world. Like it, it still doesn't feel like it actually happened.
    52:54
    It's so awesome. I'm so happy for you that you're on the show. Congratulations. You were absolutely great. I was like telling everyone and their grandmother, you've got to watch her. She's so fantastic. And then unfortunately you didn't make it past the third episode, but that's not your fault. I thought you were so great on that episode too. I mean, you were really going down trying to find the red pots.
    53:18
    It's okay. Everything goes how it's supposed to. I ended on a high. I got to do some really incredible things. And also with the way production goes, everything takes longer in the beginning. So of the two months we were there, there was only two and a half weeks that I wasn't in the game. um okay yeah so you know i the timeline feels different when you watch it back but um yeah it's like i basically got to do the show and then also have some time to go sightseeing yeah did you get to do some sightseeing when you got eliminated or i did i did um it was still very contained and um production still had kind of approvals but we did have sort of a buddy system where we had like one person from the cast we were kind of generally allowed to do stuff with um so mine was andy and uh sweet though yeah so andy and i had a lot of adventures in malaysia where like we went and saw barbie together in malacca malaysia which is like a unesco world heritage site and I'm like this is the strangest day ever and I absolutely love it um yeah so it was great it was such a good experience did you look up pin map in Malaysia I did so here's a fun of course I did um I did not find any in Malaysia but when we left to fly back to the U.S. I had an eight hour layover in Singapore in the Singapore airport with Sean and Q and Hannah but Sean and I were there for the full eight hours and pin map said there was an iron man in the Singapore airport that airport is like the size of a small city and Sean and I together because he also loves pinball he's come and played with me at no quarter um he goes to the pinball hall of fame in vegas a lot he lives in vegas he's never done like an ifba tournament but i wouldn't put it past him to start soon because he loves to play um we spent about two and a half hours walking around the singapore airport trying to find this iron man machine which it turns out we finally found this like tiny arcade room that was closed for construction and there was not a pinball machine in it um but there had been an iron man so that was our last adventure on the whole trip was sean and i trying to track down an iron man from pin maps did you did you go to pin maps and say there's no iron man here i'll say pin map excuse me i should have been like i came all the way to singapore to play this specific Ironman.
    56:17
    Yeah, so I didn't get to play any pins there, but I definitely brought some people into the hobby with the amount I talked about it to my fellow cast members. So awesome. We could have a catch reunion at the Wormhole if they ever are in Houston. If you come home, you can totally... That would be awesome. I'd host the hell out of it. We'll put a flip frenzy on there. Yes. How fun would it be? that would be such a fun stream well at this point i've gotten to play now with sean with niche and with ryan so that's a you know a third of the cast right there and ari would join us for sure and right in the word oh yeah let's do it all right are you ready for our final segment our exciting rapid fire question game that we call the hurry up thanks to our discord channel and donovan wade for helping me write a few of these questions are you ready for them yes I am ready. All right. Best reality game show with over 20 seasons. The Amazing Race, Survivor, or Big Brother? Big Brother.
    57:20
    Which of these original pinball themes would make a great movie? Monster Bash, Cactus Canyon, Total Nuclear Annihilation, or Galactic Tank Force?
    57:33
    Monster Bash. Although Cactus Canyon is one of my very favorites, and I'm glad that they just remade it. Monster Bash for a movie. That would be a good movie. You should produce that. That would be fun. I would like my name in the hat for Bride of Frankenstein.
    57:51
    That's pretty cool. All right. Stern's World Poker Tour. Raise or fold that machine? Raise. Nashville Hot Chicken or Memphis Pulled Pork?
    58:04
    Nashville Hot Chicken. That's pretty good. Come on. Titans or Predators? Titans. We'll let us see. Follow-up question. This comes from GoBills on our Discord channel. Should the Tennessee Titans be allowed to wear the Houston Oilers throwback jerseys? I believe so. I believe so, and I love this question because I feel so personally attached to it as a Houston girl that is now a Nashville resident. I joke that I followed my football team and I am absolutely thrilled to see the Oilers jerseys back alright could they be allowed I don't know but am I happy about it as a Nashvilleian? Hell yeah alright did you buy a jersey did you buy one of those with the Nashville Titans? I have not but I have actually produced three jobs for the Tennessee Titans in this last year since I've been back from the show Well, you have to. Okay, so you had the answer that way. Well, I love them. I can say no to a job. I just – and I really love Will Levis. I really believe in him, our new rookie quarterback.
    59:16
    Oh, you're all in. Smart guy. You're all in. All right, worst Nashville tourist, a drunk country music fan or bachelorette party?
    59:26
    Drunk country music fan. Okay. Yeah. Favorite non-poker card game? Ooh, Jen Rummy. You get to choose one game for the final round of the Tennessee State Championship. What pinball machine do you get to pick?
    59:45
    Centaur. Yeah, Centaur's good. All right, last question. What are your pinball high score initials for anyone visiting the Nashville Arcades?
    59:55
    MLL. if you're at the insider boards my name is Melvira because I'm a huge Melvira fan so MLL are my initials and Melvira is my Stern Insider Connect thank you so much for hanging with me today that was fun I really appreciate you and it was great catching up with you where can people find you online Melissa Instagram is the easiest at mel.lumis that's L-U-M-M-U-S that's where I keep up with things the most Honestly, a broken diode on Twitch, which we are now resurrecting and occasionally the wormhole pinball when I'm in Houston.
    60:34
    But yeah, Instagram is the easiest way to do it. I'm very excited to have done this. It's always a pleasure talking to you and I feel very honored to be a part of the extended wormhole family. Absolutely. You know, we love having you here and we love having you on stream. And so three chances to see you, if I don't go get that machine in the next week, is going to be either Houston Arcade Expo, then the Chicago Expo or TPF in March. So we've got multiple chances to see each other soon. Absolutely. And I'll probably come see my family in Houston and hit y'all all up as well. Well, you have an open invite. I'd open the joint for you. Thanks. I'll bring Q, so I'll make it worth it. Oh, well, then I'll definitely open the joint for you. That would be awesome. All right. Thanks again, Melissa. I really, really appreciate it. Big thanks for coming for you, and I can't wait to watch what you've got next. It's so awesome. What a great story you're writing. I really appreciate you all a bunch. Bye. See you soon. Bye.
    61:40
    Well, that was fun. Not to sound like Stevie Wonder, but isn't she lovely? I mean, she really, really is. Okay, need your input, listeners and viewers. I'm switching to two pods a month.
    61:52
    And I got a little excited and just kept going and going and recording and recording. But I need to pace myself because I know myself and I'll burn out. So I don't want to do that. So not going to have a podcast next week. But I'd love to put them out like Friday morning every week. And I'm shooting for two, potentially three a month. But two is really what I really prefer. follow us on all the socials especially instagram we have like 1200 plus followers on instagram and i'd really like to get us to 1300 and follow us on youtube because youtube we have like 8500 so i don't know what we've done on youtube over instagram but let's make that happen and uh i really am going to be taking this new camera for a spin uh the osmo pocket 3 so documenting again some cool stuff not only with the wormhole east museum but the wormhole itself our vault and uh some more places all right one more story okay i owe my friend john spates an apology and i hope he's listening to this and i want to share why i owe him an apology and they're fixing sword of fury so that's what you hear in the background for over a year now john spates has wanted to do something really cool for the monday night stream that we have and we stream on twitch the second and fourth Monday of every month, and we stream a game. We have a $2 buy-in fun 1X tournament, not IFVA, and we're just clowns. And we do this the second and fourth Monday again. And we have never duplicated a game. And with over 200-plus pins, I think we're going to be in really good shape to never duplicate for quite some time. So John wanted the ability to put headphones on a player and then listen to our commentary booth live. So basically put the headphone on the player, players all the way over there. They can hear us. We can get tips. We can bust their butt, all that good stuff. But I couldn't figure it out because the lag was terrible between Bluetooth and this. And then one day John goes, what if we just got a long-ass cord for this headset? And I couldn't find the Audio Technica cord and all this, but finally we figured it out. He went to Guitar Center, and we found these long cords. And finally, on our Rick and Morty stream that we just put up a couple of weeks ago, we had the long cord and the long headphone. And it was awesome. It really transported me back to our original streams, which another shameless plug you can still find on YouTube. But it's more a camaraderie. And some of the players didn't want to wear the headphones. Some did. And it really turned out great. So go check that out on YouTube's coming up. But I think that is still on our Twitch channel. So thank you so much. It was a great stream. And I apologize again to John for being resistant. I was. I was resistant. I didn't think it was going to work. And he's a hell of a producer and a hell of a friend. He's the best. And I really appreciate you, John. Thanks so much. And it turned out great. It really did. It was awesome. All right. I've kept you long enough. Remember, our number one rule at the wormhole, don't be an asshole.