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Ep 81: Wheezy!!!

Final Round Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 7m·held·Jun 2, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Hosts defend John Wick's reveal and criticize toxic social media discourse while debating game quality subjectivity.

Summary

In this winding episode, hosts Jeff and Martin discuss the John Wick pinball machine release from Stern, emphasizing the importance of actually playing games before criticizing them online. They critique the toxic social media environment in the pinball community, share personal experiences with various pinball games (especially praising Jaws and Rush), and explore subjective vs. objective assessments of game quality, theme relevance, and pricing at $20,000+ for limited editions.

Key Claims

  • John Wick pinball was kept secret well by Stern until one week before announcement

    high confidence · Jeff: 'They've always been criticized of having all this stuff leaked. This time, well done, Stern, right?'

  • The John Wick film series contains 439 total deaths across four films: 77, 128, 94, and 140 respectively, with the majority by gun

    high confidence · Martin provides specific kill counts: '77 kills in the first film, 128 kills in the second film, 94 in the third, and 140 in the fourth. 439 deaths in these movies.'

  • John Wick pinball LE costs over $20,000 AUD in Australia

    high confidence · Jeff: 'it is still here in Australia for an LE over $20,000 Australian'

  • Elliot Eisman is the designer of John Wick pinball and it is his first game

    high confidence · Martin: 'Who was the designer? Elliot Eisman. Yes, new. Well, he's done a lot of their... He's a mechanical engineer. So, first game, yeah.'

  • Tim Sexton did the code for John Wick pinball

    high confidence · Jeff: 'And good on Stern for really, in the last few years, stepping up what Jack Danger has done, what Elliot has done... And I don't know. Again, I see it at a lot of locations in North America already... And yeah, congratulations to Elliot, to Tim Sexton, who did the code on this game.'

  • Randy Martinez did the art for John Wick pinball

    high confidence · Martin: 'I thought, oh, that looks pretty cool... But you know what? I think this is the best art he's done... I'm very impressed with it.'

  • Stern plans to release at least three cornerstone games in the year discussed, with Tron and Metallica rumored

    medium confidence · Jeff: 'In the year in which Stern has already promised us three cornerstones, at least, There's some vaults that we're expecting to see. The big rumors are Tron and Metallica.'

  • Tim Sexton and Raymond Davidson designed the rules for Rush pinball

    high confidence · Martin: 'Who did the rules for it? Tim and Raymond Davidson. Oh, bullshit. You two are fucking geniuses, legends...'

Notable Quotes

  • “Please, for the love of God, play the fucking game before you make any comments.”

    Jeff @ early segment — Core thesis of episode—criticism of people judging games without playing them

  • “Your opinion is valid. It's actually not. It's not valid. It's just an opinion. It's not truth. It's not fact. It's just your view.”

    Martin @ mid-episode — Frames the debate about subjectivity vs. objectivity in game assessment

  • “It's like saying what your least favorite blowjob is. I mean, it's still a blowjob, right?”

    Jeff @ mid-episode — Humorous analogy defending ranking games while acknowledging all are valuable

  • “I don't hate one fucking person in the world. And I got to tell you, it feels fucking great.”

    Martin @ mid-episode — Personal philosophy statement on avoiding toxic behavior and hate

  • “This is a show so it's show marty it's not necessarily exactly what i think it's it's close enough but we're putting on a show”

    Jeff @ late-mid episode — Meta-commentary on podcast persona vs. genuine belief

  • “Is John Wick a better game than Ollie? A hundred times better. But Ollie has some sentiment to me because it's the actual machine from Papa in which I beat the living shit out of Zach Sharp and turned it into a t-shirt.”

    Martin @ late episode — Illustrates emotional attachment to games vs. objective quality assessment

  • “The question you're asking is, is emotionally John Wick better than these games? And it's not because emotional is very subjective and it's based on memories that you have and how you felt about a machine at a particular time.”

    Martin @ late episode — Core insight about separating emotional from technical game evaluation

  • “I play games to think, how can I do in this game in a competition, and where can I not exploit, where are the shots that matter to me to get the points, to bring in a mode, to add a multi-ball”

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyJohn WickgameElliot EismanpersonTim SextonpersonRandy MartinezpersonRaymond DavidsonpersonJeffperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: John Wick pinball officially revealed by Stern with minimal leak; hosts and community getting first looks; now appearing at locations across North America

    high · Jeff: 'I see it at a lot of locations in North America already. That's one thing I like about Stern is they release a game and they're out on location.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Elliot Eisman brought on as first-time lead designer on John Wick; mechanical engineer background stepping into major release

    high · Martin: 'He's a mechanical engineer. So, first game, yeah... your first game? Holy crap.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Post-announcement social media complaints about game quality from people who haven't played it; hosts push back against unplayed criticism

    high · Jeff: 'one thing that is in common with a lot of the comments... none of the fucking people had played the game they just they bitched on it before they played it'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Discussion of gun imagery constraints on John Wick playfield; speculation that Lionsgate licensing may have limited representation despite high kill counts in films

    medium · Martin: 'If Lionsgate didn't want it, okay, that's fine. There's another thing, too.' Discussion of 439 film deaths but minimal gun imagery on playfield.

  • ?

    industry_signal: Stern successfully kept John Wick secret until announcement week; praised for avoiding leaks and managing reveal marketing

    high · Jeff: 'They've always been criticized of having all this stuff leaked. This time, well done, Stern, right?'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.204

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. it's player versus player and player versus machine welcome to the final round
0:39
Look at us. Almost regular, but at our age, nothing is regular. I'll tell you what is regular, Jeff. Your annoying Canadian accent, my wheezy smoker's laugh, and my stupid, over-exaggerated Australian accent. That is regular. You are going to get that every episode. That's right. According to one of our fans. Cut. You know, trust me, we love getting feedback, good or bad, at FinalRoundPodcast. What is it? Fuck. FinalRoundPinball.
1:13
FinalRoundPinball at gmail.com. Please send it to us. We will respond. We will read. And sometimes we'll cry when we read some great, great comments. And basically, Martin just gave you the synopsis of not one, but two hate-filled emails from people you've never met. It was awesome. I know. Again, it's one of those things. Even the emails like that just make us laugh. So be as fucking toxic as you want. All you're doing is making us laugh hysterically with my wheezy smoker's laugh.
1:51
How about that, eh? Yeah, right. Crikey. Bonza, mate. You fucking cunt. You got any shrimp on the barbie there, eh? oh fucking oh fucking so i think the i don't know what the title of this episode is going to be but it'll be along the lines of fucking hell social media just social graces are just fucking gone people are just cunts most of the time these days and there's no need for it and john wick is case in point can we let's talk about the release of john wick pinball jeff what did you thing because apparently according to everybody it's a fucking piece of shit well there's there's uh one thing that is in common with a lot of the comments that came out about john wick and and of course some of them were negative actually many of them were negative but the things that were in common with every single one of them none of the fucking people had played the game they just they bitched on it before they played it like i i'm not saying your view isn't how you feel fine Great. Awesome. You want certain things? That's cool. Please, for the love of God, play the fucking game before you make any comments. I can't make any comments other than, hey, this is a broken record. I want to play the game. Okay. Can I give you right now? By the way, we need to do a full disclosure, too, if we're going to be talking John Wick. We'll get to the social media stuff there, but we never give disclosures. People listening, they're listening with their, I assume, small children in the car when they listen to this program. we want to let you know we're going to be talking a lot about John Wick. So full disclosure, Martin is going to have a raging heart on this whole episode. It's Keanu Reeves, baby. Boner alert.

  • Jaws is Jeff's least favorite L1 (Lwin) game, but he still considers it excellent

    high confidence · Jeff: 'Jaws is my, first of all, listen carefully, I love the game Jaws. It is my least favorite L1... It doesn't mean it's a shitty game.'

  • Social media and online communities have become more toxic and divided since around 2016 in the North American pinball scene

    medium confidence · Martin references previous guest Jeff Rivera's analysis: 'he kind of really broke it down talking about the tribes that people are in... And it's really happened in North America here since really 2016.'

    • Jeff @ late episode — Reveals competitive player mindset vs. casual/fun player perspective

  • “Rush, I play the shit out of because it's fun.”

    Jeff @ late episode — Example of fun factor driving home play vs. tournament performance

  • “holy shit, this is the best sounding game I have ever played”

    Martin @ final segment — First impression of Jaws pinball sound design

    • Martin
    person
    Jawsgame
    Rushgame
    Led Zeppelingame
    Godzillagame
    Jack Dangerperson
    Keanu Reevesperson
    Zach Sharpperson
    John Borgperson
    HashManperson
    Greg Silberperson
    Jeff Riveraperson
    Star Warsgame
    WrestleManiagame
    Twilight Zonegame
    Lionsgatecompany
    Final Round Pinball Podcastorganization
  • $

    market_signal: John Wick LE priced at $20,000+ AUD; hosts debate whether theme/design justifies premium pricing and whether it's in consumer zeitgeist

    high · Martin: 'it is still here in Australia for an LE over $20,000 Australian... you've then got to give value for money, right?'

  • ?

    code_update: Jaws noted as not at full code yet; hosts speculate rules may improve with updates

    medium · Jeff: 'now, let me change my mind, because it's not even close to full code. So I'm sure that could change.'

  • ?

    content_signal: Final Round positions itself as not an outrage podcast; hosts emphasize balanced opinions and comedic tone vs. click-driven negativity

    high · Jeff: 'Some people, honest to God, are outrage podcasts... I just can't subscribe to it. And I can't. I really don't want to put my name or my stamp on it'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Stern has promised at least three cornerstone games in the current year; Tron and Metallica rumored as next reveals

    medium · Jeff: 'In the year in which Stern has already promised us three cornerstones, at least, There's some vaults that we're expecting to see. The big rumors are Tron and Metallica. So we'll see those hopefully soon.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Post-2016 rise of pinball community tribes and forums centered on venting and negativity; people finding agreement through critical discourse

    medium · Martin references Jeff Rivera's analysis: 'People are venting and finding their tribes... it's really happened in North America here since really 2016.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Complex rules games (Led Zeppelin, Star Wars) praised for depth but criticized for steep learning curve; trade-off between immediate satisfaction and long-term reward

    high · Martin: 'the criticisms i've heard of those games are that they're really difficult to go up to for the first time and understand what the hell is going on'

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: John Wick gun imagery constraints likely due to Lionsgate IP licensing; hosts accept limitation despite thematic relevance

    medium · Martin on lack of guns: 'If Lionsgate didn't want it, okay, that's fine.' Contrasts with 439 film deaths, majority by gun.

    • 3:37
    I do have a thing for Keanu that's going to be true. Okay, but I just want to back up your point. A couple of amazing things have happened since we last spoke. Obviously, Eurovision, which we'll get to later. But one thing I'm going to mention, which is going to be a massive, I think, massive case in point. I got to play, for the very first time, Jaws Pinball. What version? Ellie. Ashman? Yep. And Ray. Danger Ray. I've got to tell you, I think it's possibly, possibly, Elwynn's best game. Wow. Somebody's come around. Because, hey, hey, I'll tell you why I came around, Jeff. Get this. This is going to be a real puzzler. Guess what? I fucking played it. Yeah. I mean, I played it. And, okay, do you know what I think it is? Here's what I'm going to tell you. It's as cool and as exciting and as inventive a layout as Godzilla, but with, I think, personally, in my view, just better rules.
    4:39
    That's not true. Just different rules that are better suited to me and what I like. There you go. That's what I've said. Wow. Now, this is funny because we're recording this on Saturday, basically Sunday, let's say, May 19th. And I'm about to see Mr. Elwin next week on Thursday in Chicago at Stern. And I'm glad you like this game because I know you've been critical of Godzilla. It just wasn't for you. Do I think Jaws is a great pinball machine? Listen carefully. Yes, I do. It's my least favorite Elwin game. No, and that's exactly right. This is what we say, everybody. By the way, that's saying, like, you're ranking Beatles albums. They're all fucking great, but you have to rank them. And I was thinking about Jaws. I'm like, what do I rather play? And right now, it's not there. Now, let me change my mind, because it's not even close to full code. So I'm sure that could change. Yep. What is there already? And this is why we say, look, these things are subjective. And this is what we're going to talk about, John Wick, shortly. Don't worry. It's not going to be one of those fake things where we say we're going to talk about it, but we never actually talk about it. We will talk about John Wick. But I think the point is, just because you think something doesn't mean, first of all, everybody thinks the same thing, and B, your opinion is valid. It's actually not. It's not valid. It's just an opinion. It's not truth. It's not fact. It's just your view. And it's all very different. And that's what I say. I've said many times, and someone accused me of the fact that I shit on new pinball machines that come out. That's actually not true. I try to give a very balanced view of machines, and I say, as you've said, it's just not for me. It doesn't mean I think it's a shit game. I've never said that Godzilla is a bad game, ever. It's just not for you. It's just not for me. It is still a fantastic game. I know everyone talks about how amazing Twilight Zone is. It's not for me. this it's it's all subjective people and i guess the problem i'm seeing now on social media is who's trying their hardest to be the biggest fuckwit is really what i'm saying here's the thing that i find and you've listened to pinball profile you've listened to head to head you've listened to final round these are our things that we create content on if you listen to us i mean this is the closest thing to an opinion piece show that we have or that I have ever done. Pinball Profile is a lot of rah-rah. Here's things I'm promoting. Here's things the guest is promoting. Final round, are there opinions? Yeah. Are we coding it with trying to make you laugh? Yeah. Are we coding it with your smoker's cough and my Canadian accent? You bet. You bet, eh?
    7:28
    But this is not really an opinion piece. And the one thing all three of these podcasts have in common, at least for me, is I'm not an outrage guy. I mean, some people, honest to God, are outrage podcasts. And that's their lane. That's cool. That's awesome. That's great. Maybe that's your YouTube thing. If that's what you want to do or when it warrants it, great. Fill your boots. I just can't subscribe to it. And I can't. I really don't want to put my name or my stamp on it until, again, I've played the game. So as I just said, Jaws is my, first of all, listen carefully, I love the game Jaws. It is my least favorite L1. That doesn't mean it's a shitty game. You know, there's a Venn diagram there. Make sure you get in the right spot there. It's like saying what your least favorite blowjob is. I mean, it's still a blowjob, right?
    8:18
    Did you hear that, Keith? See you on Thursday, buddy. Make it count, buddy. Pay attention to the balls once in a while. No, no, and speaking of balls, I mean, the ball isn't in the shark's mouth. Were you able to get over that? Were you okay with that? Made no difference. Oh, but it means all the world. No, I know. I love your nerdy voice. But it's not that. This is the thing, right? And you said it earlier and I'll say it again. These opinions are your opinion. So I get that it's important to people. So even though I said before, you know, it's not valid. It's valid to you and I get that. It's just an opinion. Like what we're saying now about other people's opinions. it's just an opinion about an opinion right so it's still just only our view you make up your own mind i just think that there's so much hate and negativity at the moment like as we started with that email that came to us which is just hilarious but just stupid and unnecessary why so hateful why so much why is there so much hate in your life what's happened to you as a person that's led you to this point in your life where you have to constantly be negative. I'm not saying that you need to be toxic positive, which is now a thing, toxic positivity. But what I'm saying is just have a nice cup of tea. Just relax a bit and just think it's only pinball. And also, it's just pinball's meant to be fun. So let's just have fun with pinball. Am I wrong? Our last guest, Jeff Rivera, on episode 80, by the way, this is episode 81, he kind of really broke it down talking about the tribes that people are in. People are venting and finding their tribes. Oh, this person agrees with me, too. So there are forums now for that. And it's really happened in North America here since really 2016. You connect the dots why that's the case. and hate is just easier to uh relate i guess or displeasure or just the visceral stuff and the reason we i use the word hate i'm not saying the other things the wick and all that is all hate but uh the email we got might have been but and it just it blows me away because this person has never met marty yourself or myself and just went on and on about us honest to god yeah i don't understand that blind hate. And I say that because I was with somebody and we were in a restaurant and they're like, oh shit, that's my lawyer's husband over there. And I don't want to see them. And I just said, wow, you know, I can go anywhere in the world and I do travel a lot where I don't have to worry about, oh, I hope I don't see so-and-so. I'm not friends with everyone. There are some people I'd rather not be social with, but I don't hate one fucking person in the world. And I got to tell you, it feels fucking great. It's good, isn't it? Oh, it's good. It's too much energy. Yeah. I mean, I got shit loads of people that hate me, but I don't hate people as well. You're right. It's just, it's not a, it's not a good way to be. And I know we're not going to change the world with this podcast. And I know that some people may look at this and think, well, it's so hypocritical because you guys shit on everything. like i was i was at a dinner last night hi james and jackie hi james you know james i do and i was saying what you're going to understand is that because basically what he said is i feel like we've already caught up i'm like yeah but what you've got to understand is that we're putting on a show so it's show marty it's not necessarily exactly what i think it's it's close enough but we're putting on a show we sort of rattle on some things just because we think it's a bit funny but I don't think we really wanted bad things to happen to people and I think people want bad things to happen to us and I don't know whether the punishment fits the crime. I can say that about a lot of things in pinball over the last few years for sure. Correct. It is what it is. I mean, more than anything else, we laughed. We had a very, very, very good laugh. but not about not necessarily about john wick so let's talk about john wick because obviously it was revealed uh since we last spoke and first thing for me and i know you are a bit of a bastard sometimes because you don't tell me all the stuff that you know right like if you know a game's coming out you don't tell me so i assume that you knew john wick was coming out i didn't i had no idea until a week before when they went you know john wick coming soon i went oh shit i had no idea it was coming. I think a lot of people were in that boat, probably. Well, well done, Stern, right? You know what I mean? Like, they've always been criticized of having all this stuff leaked. This time, well done. Sure, okay. I saw some criticisms about the way they laid it out. Remember the kind of 80s computer screen where they showed at this date, this is going to happen, this, this, this, this? Yep. I saw some criticisms. Oh, it should all be in one day. I'm like, why? Who am I to tell Stern how to market? Or any pinball company how to market their game. Just sit back, have a drink, and watch it unfold over a week. Here you go. Okay, first impression. That's another thing. We're not in the first impression business, right? So I think there's also you want to be the first if that's a thing. Okay, great. Awesome. Cool. Whatever. The first impression, which is weeks after the fact you're on final round, was, holy fuck, I really want to play this game. Yeah. Looks pretty cool. Yep. My actual first response was, huh, that reminds me of Ghostbusters. But that's unfair. I think it was just the... City skyline? Yeah, that building, whatever it is. Is it the Cosmopolitan? I think so. Yeah. Okay. Just so you know, side note, as soon as it was revealed, how many movies do you think I'd watched? Zero. How many do you think I'd watched now? One? Three. Oh. Yep. I've still got the fourth to watch. I saw the first Flipping Through years ago. And my son wanted to see the fourth one that came out, so we went to the theater and saw that. And it's not like I missed storyline or any kind of, oh, there's a plot twist. No, you're not. No, you're not going to be mentally challenged with these movies. They are awesome. Can I just say? Fucking awesome. That is the boner talk. Though I don't have that much of a boner for Vecano. In fact, I could count the number of movies he's been in that I've watched on one penis. So that's 13.
    15:11
    Stop that wheezy smoker's laugh. Fucking made my day. It really did. Thanks, Don. So I'm not really that much of a big fan of Keanu. I also understand the limitations of his acting ability. Well, see, there's another thing. I saw a critique saying, oh, it should have been Keanu voicing. And I'm like, no, it shouldn't. I've watched the John Wick movies. He kills more people than there are words in a movie. Like, he cannot speak. Correct. And I love, by the way, I love the guy. Like, I actually like the man more than I like the actor. I think everything I hear about him, I think he's just stand up. And by the way, we count him as Canadian. I know he lived here for a prominent part of his life, and he's been all around. wasn't born here. I always thought he was Hawaiian. Fuck it, we're taking him. He's Canadian. Sure, fine. I don't care. You can have him. Okay. But what he does in that movie just absolutely suits him. I've not really delved into any Wikipedias or any background, but I would imagine that it was written for him. Like they've gone, okay, if it's a counter-review and we're going to make a movie based on his ability, this is what it's got to be. And just, I mean, the kill count. The kill count is just fucking just through the roof. See, now that's the thing that kind of surprised me about The Outrage was because when I think of John Wick movies, I certainly think of him basically on a revenge tour. And stupid me, I actually didn't think of the guns because the last movie I saw was episode four and a lot of the duels and the great fight scenes are just that. It's combat. It's not guns because guns pretty much end right away. Like those kills are super super quick And also it was the car and the exciting car chase scene which oh wow they gotten the game which is a really cool mech So believe it or not when I think of John Wick Guns is actually low on the list for me Okay. Having recently had these movies in my head, Guns is number one. Really? I haven't seen two and three. Oh, okay. Well, there's shitloads more kills than the others, right? I was going to tell you the kill count on each of the films, but I won't. Why not? Okay. Well, I will. 77 kills in the first film, 128 kills in the second film, 94 in the third, and 140 in the fourth.
    17:32
    439 deaths in these movies. And a dog. Wow, yes. Spoiler. So I would say, and the majority of those are by gun. So in actual fact, the thing that was starting to really just get me a little bit fatigued was the martial arts scenes. It's like, fucking grab a gun and shoot the fucker. You know what I mean? Like, I just...
    17:58
    What I love the most, and you know, I'm a very peaceful person, listener. So, you know, I'm anti-gun in real life. On movies, I want guns, right? And what I loved about this, I love John Wick, is he doesn't shoot these people once. Oh, no. They've got to have at least three bullets in them, minimum. Boom, boom, boom. Yeah. Oh, fucking hell It is intoxicating I get it I understand why people are saying Why are there no guns On the playfield Or as the shooter Why are there no guns I absolutely I'm there with you brother slash sister I'm there with you Am I losing sleep over it Is the question I'm not Because there's still shit loads of violence in the videos Well, that's the thing. The videos show all that kind of stuff. So if Lionsgate didn't want it, okay, that's fine. There's another thing, too. The first time I saw the art without hearing any piece was like, wow, well done, Randy Martinez, who gave us Mandalorian and has done a lot of work really with Star Wars and stuff. So here's kind of outside the box doing John Wick. And I thought, oh, that looks pretty cool. I like the color scheme. It looks good. I'm looking forward, again, looking forward to playing this game. But you know what? I think this is the best art he's done. It is really, really good. I'm very impressed with it. It's one of those things where it's busy, so there's a lot for your eyes to take in, but it's colourful. This is what I always say. There's a couple of things that you've got to understand. There's the theme, and then there's the theme integration when it comes to the art. And what I mean by that is it's something as simple as an insert that's an arrow having some art around the arrow that integrates the theme. So it might be something that's a little bit ornate. Do you understand what I mean by that? Wow, you're getting deep. Well, I am. Well, obviously, I'm in the business, right? But it's more so that there's two things you've got to factor in. You've got to factor in the theme that you're trying to represent and how you're now using pinball art to represent that on the play field. He's just done a bang-up job. So, well done. It's funny you say that because for me, again, my first impression is I don't really look at that thing at all, the integration. And I think the more I would. First impression, I don't. First impression is like, wow, I like the Translate. Wow, I love the cab. The play field looks – the play field, honestly, what I'm looking at is the shots. I'm looking at the ramps. I'm looking at the bash toy. I'm looking at how they've integrated the drop target and the pop bumper there. And just, man, it looks pretty cool. So, again, I can hardly wait to play this game. Yeah, I'm absolutely in agreement with you. Because I'm not obviously all that familiar with him. But who was the designer? Elliot Eisman. Yes, new. Well, he's done a lot of their... He's a mechanical engineer. So, first game, yeah. Yeah. So, fucking hell. I know. I would say for any game, well done. But your first game? Holy crap. And good on Stern for really, in the last few years, stepping up what Jack Danger has done, what Elliot has done, and finding new blood, if you will. This guy's obviously put in the time from the mechanical side and to step up to the big leagues, if you will. Pretty cool. In the year in which Stern has already promised us three cornerstones, at least, There's some vaults that we're expecting to see. The big rumors are Tron and Metallica. So we'll see those hopefully soon. And yeah, congratulations to Elliot, to Tim Sexton, who did the code on this game. And I don't know. Again, I see it at a lot of locations in North America already. That's one thing I like about Stern is they release a game and they're out on location. I think if you can do that, that's a real strength and certainly strikes when the irons are hot, so to speak. Yeah. So, look, again, if we can go into a little bit of more, let's think about this strategically, right? So is John Wick a good thing? Oh, boy, you're asking the wrong guy because... No, I'm not asking the wrong guy. No, you are. I'm asking a guy and, well, not proven, but just trying to see whether you think, in your opinion, as a podcaster that has an opinion podcast, in your terrible Canadian accent, do you think John Wick as a brand is a great thing? Without any explanation, and my only choices are yes or no, the answer is quickly yes. Mine is a no, but also I hadn't seen any of the movies, so that's why I wanted to, oh, my God, get this. get educated. Stop me, right? And make up my mind. What I don't know is, is John Wick in the zeitgeist? Is it this theme that everybody knows about, everybody talks about, everybody loves? I don't know whether it is. And the reason why I say this is, again, hi, James. This is based on a conversation that I had last night over dinner. Oh my God, this dinner It was amazing, by the way. Jackie is just the best cook. Anyway, the question was pricing because pricing isn't going anywhere. They are not going to reduce their pricing. It is still here in Australia for an LE over $20,000 Australian. So if the pricing isn't going to change because you've now priced a lot of people out of the market, and there's 1,000 LEs, by the way, and I still think that they're available, what is it that you need to do in order for people to be comfortable with $20,000 or whatever it is in US dollars, like five US dollars. But you've then got to give value for money, right? So you've got to look at the game and think, well, what are you giving me now in the play field and in this machine that warrants $20,000? Is it the theme? Is it what you actually put into the play field? and I can ask you the question but for me personally I look at this game and I think yeah actually you've done a good job to make me look at that machine and think fuck there's a lot more in that than what I would normally get from a stern maybe just maybe twenty thousand dollars is okay I still think premium the premium model is your go-to model well you get the same rules as the LE. So in that sense, yes, it's a different art package. By the way, I love all three art packages. Sometimes you come up with a machine and you're like, eh, I really don't like such and such version, but I like the other ones. I like all three on this, so good job on the art. Again, the LE thing is a different, you know, I'm not a FOMO guy. It's a different breed. It's, we kind of jokingly talk about the whales in pinball that have to have it and feeling special and all that kind of stuff. So I don't have that mindset. I know I have an LE, but I don't think I would ever have another one. Guess if money was not an object, sure. But common sense, am I going to get that value back? hmm because all that aside that that's not the question i ask myself about uh a boot uh that's not the question i ask we gotta take a time out here marty needs to go have a dart the question i ask myself is not is 20 000 worth it is a friend of mine we'll just say his initials are js we're uh talking and when it comes time to getting a new game, we both agreed that, okay, to bring in a new game into my home, into my collection, it has to be better than my worst game here. Okay, yeah, you and I have had that conversation before. Yeah, so... Led Zeppelin, obviously. Well, sure. Well, fuck, is John Wick a better game than Joker Poker? A hundred times better, but I also want that kind of older style game. So I have to compare era to era. Correct, yeah. You know, and we'll see. You couldn't let Joker Poker go. That is such a good game. My wife, it's her favorite game. Yeah. Yeah, no. That's like, it's not apples with apples. Yeah. It's, yeah. Is John Wick better than Ollie? A hundred times better. But Ollie has some sentiment to me because it's the actual machine from Papa in which I beat the living shit out of Zach Sharp and turned it into a t-shirt. So I have to keep that. And it's just other games like that. I got a grand slam game from the Louisville Arcade Expo that I haven't even really set up. Is John Wick better than that? A hundred million times better. Of course it is. But I like the baseball theme of this. So the question you're asking is, is emotionally John Wick better than these games? And it's not because emotional is very subjective and it's based on memories that you have and how you felt about a machine at a particular time. on paper absolutely John Wick is better than all of those games you know I say theme it doesn't matter to me but I guess it does because it's kind of the tipping point it might be I have a I'm looking at a rush machine right here is John Wick better than rush it could very well be but what theme do I like more rush not even close oh again I when I was over at hash man's I played rush again because I've not I don't really get to play that much as you know and it's your boy John Borg you love a good Borgie I do love being Borg'd but oh my god Rush is great it's great it is just great it's the game I play more than any other game and I have 10 more because it beats the living hell to me I have it set up tough I haven't even come close to completing it and I'm not saying I'm finding new things but it's just a It's a fun grind. Some games are really grindy, but this is a fun one, too. Who did the rules for it? Tim and Raymond Davidson. Oh, bullshit. You two are fucking geniuses, legends, because that is what makes the game. It's a good layout. It's a Borg layout, so you know what you're getting. But it's the rules that make you feel something. You feel so much through that game. those two people right now love you guys well that's funny you should say that and they also did led zeppelin another game i have in here the criticism i have heard tim and raymond are friends of mine but the criticisms i've heard of those games are that they're really difficult to go up to for the first time and understand what the hell is going on i have to agree with that criticism that being said owning it or playing a game a lot of times you get to learn it and oh my god the rules actually make the game zeppelin as much as i love steve ritchie the rules totally make that game if there's anything you like about it it is the rules well i know i know people like hashman obviously says and greg silber you know they love led zeppelin so i even though i play it and it leaves me unsatisfied. I've still got to objectively look at it and go, well, these people have got good-tasting machines, so it must be a good machine. It's just one of those things I said before. It's just not for me, and I think it is that. It's that accessibility. But I think if I had a, like Star Wars, because, again, I played that, and it fucking just beat me to the ground. But if I had those games at home and I could spend a lot of time with them, I'd probably fall in love with them. But as a turn-up-and-quickly-get-satisfaction, no, you don't get it immediately. I think these are a slow, long burn, these games. That is a really good point about Star Wars. It's funny. When I play pinball, I really play for one thing and one thing only, and I am probably in the minority. So I'm saying this, fully aware of this. I play games to think, how can I do in this game in a competition, and where can I not exploit, where are the shots that matter to me to get the points, to bring in a mode, to add a multi-ball, to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, which is not what most people do. So that being said, I do not play Led Zeppelin ever just for fun, but I look forward to it so much when it's in competition. But me turning on my Zeppelin machine, I can tell you right now, I don't turn it on unless I have a league night. Rush, I play the shit out of because it's fun. I hold my breath in competition. It's also a great competition game, but that's a game, again, And Godzilla is great for all of the above, but probably I fear it a little more in competition because in big competitions, they're going to really bastardize the game and make it super sling out, gone, no posts, hard settings and all that stuff. So it's probably more of a fun factor for me than a competition game. But there is a real difference in these games. Star Wars, for example, you just gave a great example. I would rather play that for fun and to learn it and go into it, then see it in a competition and go, oh, shit, because you just don't know what's going to happen. But for fun, sure. I'll put two other games into that that I think, and everyone will hate me for saying this, but there's one game in particular that I love because I am good at it in tournaments and everybody else is shit at it in tournaments. That is WrestleMania. And so it is, I would say objectively, not a great game. but because i love the designer go on you're editing the show i'm curious if that'll stay we haven't agreed on whether i'm editing your fucking editing i'm going five weekends in a row you're totally doing it okay whatever anyway so it's one of those things objectively it's it's not the most fun game but because i tend to beat everybody when i play that i love that game right Okay, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the thing with a WrestleMania game. If you know the game, there's a ring on the top, and the ball's in there a long, long time. If it's not in there, you get it back up. You want to do tag team, blah, blah, blah. Get back in the ring. So that's the kind of not fun factor, I think, what WrestleMania sees. Go back to Jaws. My first impression of Jaws, and I want to note, is, holy shit, this is the best sounding game I have ever played. The sound of the reel, you know, just everything, the clips, everything wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I look forward to when the code becomes full because there's just so many opportunities there. But right now I'm like, okay, I play a lot of the pro. There's a lot of stop and go action and I'm like, I like the speed of that left orbit shot that flies down as long as the post's not up. but if the post comes up, okay, we're stopping again. The fin comes up. I want to see a little more quicker pace because it seems like a real fast game to me, but then it slows down by both posts, really. But still, that game could be my favorite game by the time all the code's done, but it's still a winner. Hmm, interesting. Okay. Let me tell you what my first, my favorite game of recent memory is. You ready? And I played it last night, and we had a big, long conversation. I just went, this game has not aged badly at all In fact it has aged better Do I know it That is Yeah of course you do It a recent game Should I guess Yeah go for it By Stern? Yep.
    34:08
    Foo Fighters? Yep. Yeah. Fucking hell. And it's one of those things, you know, you said, oh, I reached out to Keith. I was thinking last night, oh, do I reach out to Jack Danger? But I don't know him that well, so I wasn't going to go randomly. But I wanted to just reach out to him and say, hey, mate, I just want to let you know after all this time Foo Fighters has just absolutely aged so well. It is still so much fun. It's just a great game. I agree and that's another one that's both competition and fun to play where I look forward to that being in. Jack Danger, if you're listening, that is Marty Robbins in Australia reaching out with an audio handshake and just saying congratulations on Foo Fighters. It's a masterpiece. Well, I remember playing at TPF thinking, and I said to Jack Danger at the time, game of the show. I just thought it was. But, you know, you have those things where you ask yourself, is it a stayer? Is something going to last over time? And yeah, it really has. I think it's an absolute classic. Well done. Any other thoughts on John Wick? Because I have one more. Well, yeah. No, the only thing I say is that I look forward to playing it. Gun Gate, I totally get why some people would be angry about it. I also think that it's difficult for me to be in the position of everybody else because guns are not important to me. And I say that. How dare you, you son of a bitch. We've just lost everybody in Texas. Way to go, fuckhead. Thanks very much. No, but, you know, I'm not wanting to point fingers at anybody, But, you know, I come from a country in Australia where we had a gun massacre God knows how many years ago at Port Arthur. And after that massacre, we then had all guns revoked. So we don't live in a society where everybody's got guns. And I've been to America many times and particularly some states where they have guns. And seeing people with guns makes me really, really uncomfortable. but what I understand is that those people they have their guns to make themselves feel really comfortable do you know what I mean like that's just a really weird opposite way I look at the guns and it makes me uncomfortable they look at the guns and that's what makes them feel secure that's not right or wrong that's just a different culture so I can understand why people are going well hang on if guns are so important to the culture of America why are you not putting it on the playfield I logically understand but from a country that doesn't really care too much about guns, it doesn't bother me. I'll share my gun story. There's kind of two. So, I have never fired a gun. I have nothing against them. I've just never had the opportunity nor desire to do either. I have been offered. In fact, going to Texas Pinball Festival, I was offered to go to a gun range, and I just, timing, I probably would have if I had the time. I just, I didn't. So, that opportunity happened a few times. when the pandemic happened and I was worried about the haves and have-nots. And I'm saying this fully aware that I wasn't mentally in the best state during the pandemic. I really didn't take it well. Listen to the episode in which we did the Pimberg show. I was really worried about what state of the world is and when will this end and what kind of life is going to be for my kids, blah, blah, blah, to the point where I said to Anne, I said, do we need to get a gun? Wow. Okay. I was really worried. And we kind of beefed up security at the house after that bullshit that happened on Pinside years and years ago. Oh, I know what you're talking about. So I was like, oh, fuck, is this gun time? So I fully was aware of that. I had one other thing. Again, Louisville Arcade Expo years and years ago, and Chris Warren, if you're listening, you remember that. And drinking at a bar after the show, the bar closed, and some guy who we were drinking with was, I think, a firefighter. And he said, ah, the bar's closed. He goes, I got a full bar upstairs. And there were a bunch of us, and we're like, oh, are you sure? He said, yeah, come on up. We go up, have a few pops. I go, this is great. I go to the washroom. I come back outside, and I see a guy with a gun in the hotel room and kind of displaying it. And I'm like, okay, I'm drunk. it's 3 a.m in the morning see ya i'm out of here and he's like no no don't worry it's not loaded i'm like yeah 3 a.m hotel room kentucky gun i know where this story's going or it just doesn't look good like i don't want to be in that situation see ya i'm out of here yep so i guess there's a fear in that sense for me when it comes to guns that's all yeah that's as much as i guess I was trying to say, as much as people feel that it is their right to have guns, it's my belief that guns aren't important and those opinions are equal. Sure. But they're opposite. Hey man, teach your own, right? The laws tell you what you can and can't do and those with guns I'm sure are law-abiding citizens that have their permits and all that kind of good stuff and safety checks and blah blah blah, fine. great awesome we do have one gun right here and we're going to use it right now because it's time to play who will marty kill you didn't think i was gonna bring it up you're fucking doing it you bet we are and hell yes one gun marty oh god do you want to know who's in the groups i hate this game i genuinely do but keep going let's go let's get this over and quick i done as possible. Quickly. How many messages have you said, hey man, when are we going to bring that back? Like, it's my shtick. It's me. This is what people love. Marty, just admit it. You fucking love this. And especially with a gun in hand.
    40:13
    Okay. Alright. Bring it on. In room number one, you have actually a bunch of people. Okay. We've never had a group versus a group. Naked or clothed? I mean, I think that needs to be established up front. Clothes. Just make it safe. All right? Okay. Not as exciting. I said there's only one gun. Okay. No other pistols have been whipped out. So... Sure. In the one group, you have the people who are livid that there are no guns on the John Wick artwork of the game. Okay? That's in group one. In the other group, you have the people who are fucking livid that Jaws doesn't eat the ball. and to help your decision the only people in these rooms are people that are adamant about that without having played the game first well i mean that was assumed i mean everybody went up in arms about that yeah look i think i think i can narrow down the question really is who do i think is more ridiculous people that thought jaws didn't need the ball versus those people that didn't have gun on John Wick and it's easy. By the way, we know people on both sides and they're friends of ours. We do know, but again, it's just back to me and my personal view and what I think is more ridiculous. And what I think is more ridiculous is Jaws eating the ball. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. But I totally understand that John Wick should have guns on the playfield. I totally get that. Jaws, no, I don't. It's a fucking, oh my God, it's a fucking shark. Sharks Guys, can I just say, oh, you can tell I've been drinking. And you're in Australia where sharks are actually quite prominent. I've been to Perth. I've been to, I don't know how much they're on the Sydney side, but Perth, oh, my God. No, somebody actually got attacked off the coast of Sydney very recently by a shark. Really? Did they have a gun and shoot the great white? No. This is my point. My point is, of all the sharks that I've seen in all the nature documentaries, all of them, I have never seen a shark eat a ball from a pinball machine. I've never seen that happen. I don't know. Am I missing something? Like, is there actually evidence that shows sharks eating fucking pinballs?
    42:37
    Is that a thing? So you asked the question earlier. No, it's not, of course. So I know which group you're. Sorry to that group. Joe Chervino, we loved you. Yes. Sorry, mate. Ridiculous.
    42:51
    Anyway, by the way, that's why I wanted to clarify. These are friends of ours. Joe is a good shit and does wonderful, wonderful things with the Jennings and his pinball degenerates, so we're just poking fun at you, Joe. And a t-shirt with Marty killed me is on its way.
    43:08
    Okay. You asked earlier, is John Wick a good theme? and I gave the quick yes or no answer without explanation. And I said, yes, because it's topical. They've made four movies. It's obviously very successful. So that was yes to me. I will ask you in 2024, 2023 and whenever it came out, is Jaws a good theme? Okay. Again, you must have been listening to this conversation that we had over dinner last night. Oh my God. The apple crumble was just the best. Can I just call it out? Made you forget about those good old cigarettes, eh? For a while you were like, I'm going to jump on this one.
    43:49
    Oh, what a fucking cunt. We actually had this discussion last night. Almost exactly. And that's why I think I brought it up. It was a John Wick theme versus Jaws theme. And here's why I say that Jaws is still a good theme. It's because, forget about the movie, a shark, a killer shark, is a good theme in itself, which is timeless. There just happened to be a movie that was a good movie that depicted this. Understand what I mean? Whereas John Wick is a time-appropriate theme. It's only a recent thing, and it's more about the actual movie itself, whereas Jaws is a good movie, but it's a fucking killer shark that doesn't eat balls. People, just understand. It's never, ever eaten a fucking pinball. Groundbreaking movie. Certainly put Spielberg on the map. and what he did and what he was able to do when the shark didn't work, all that kind of good stuff. Does that movie get made in 2024? Because let's think about that. The idea of the shark doing horrible things, dog, children, people, it certainly caused havoc in the fake town of Amity, New York. Does this movie get made this year? Because if it does, people are like, oh, they're trying to kill an endangered species.
    45:09
    like so people are so adamant let's let's fucking kill it yeah well yeah you know what interestingly there was a there was a an article that just stumbled across my desk was like you know the top 10 movies that could never be made today and one of them was free willy and they're like oh you know you couldn't do a movie about an endangered killer whale i'm like oh okay i guess you maybe you could you couldn't and it's exactly that but also i i argue today's cinematography is pretty good it's really really good at the moment particularly tv we are just in the most amazing renaissance of tv at the moment just everything that you oh but don't get me started oh don't get me started on tv shows that don't get renewed for a second season oh you just you fuckers which one hurt you well okay let me let me name a few the peripheral shadow and bone lockwood and co There's some more that I need to think off the top of my head But there's just a lot of Oh, Night Sky Oh my god, people Night Sky with Sissy Spacek Is just one of the best TV shows ever And they didn't renew it for a second season It just I don't Do you know what? Let's bring it back to pinball It's like Stern releasing a game with unfinished code And saying Sorry, we're not going to finish the code Ouch that's what it feels like you've told us the first part of the story we already know that there's five books that have been made, just fucking make this shit oh, frustrates me yeah I can't think of a show where it ended or it's like, oh, I guess the only one that comes to mind but it wasn't one season, it was two Mindhunter, the David Fincher series, I was like, oh, I want more yeah, I watched the first season of that it was great the second season's even better but it's yeah interesting okay I just don't think Jaws gets made I mean fuck you and I both love Disco the movie Saturday Night Fever doesn't get made in 2024 first of all Disco is over but do you remember like Travolta's character rapes the woman in it like she no doesn't mean like it's fucking horrible and you're like whoa oh okay revenge of the nerds revenge of the nerds that's a total that can't get made absolutely because uh doesn't he wear a mask or something like that he does he's dressed up as day yeah he's dressed up as darth vader so she thinks she's having sex with her boyfriend but she's not it's it's not consent listen i remember was it 84 i remember that movie coming out going and i'm 14 i don't even know anything about sex i'm like whoa that's kind of i don't even know if it was done for comedy or revenge because the movie's called revenge i don't know but it was just i was a There's no kid who even knew that. No, I know. The times have changed. And this is the challenge. I know we're digressing, but we're looking at things today that were made 20, 30 years ago with the lens of today. And it's just not fair that it was a different time and people have repented. So, you know. But that being said, there are some things that happened 20, 30, 40 years ago that probably we didn't see coming as, oh, shit, you know, that was offensive. That was wrong. and we've since learned and now, you know, clearly feel that and realize what's happened. I'm wondering what we're doing today that 10, 20 years from now, people are going to be like, you can't do that. And by the way, the answer is this entire podcast. I was just going to say, we would be canceled. They would say, look, we need to edit out all the offensive stuff. It would be literally, hi, welcome to... Goodbye, see you next week. Thank you. So, yeah, I don't know. It's just, it's a crazy time that we're in right now because AI is about to take over, just in case. I think if you remember, years ago, I brought up the topic of AI, way before, oh, gee, I was before everybody else. It's taking over, guys. It's absolutely taking over. And so people don't realize it, but our lives are about to change significantly in the next 12 months. kind of the way in 94, 95 when the internet came on, you know, it really changed things and once it became more popular and people got past the dial up shit and we got faster internet, you can't remember what life was like before that. Things like encyclopedias were your go-to physical books, but now you don't need any of that kind of stuff. Anyway, yeah, AI is where we're going for sure, but a little secret. I'm not actually Jeff Teolis. This is the AI version of Jeff Teolis.
    49:59
    And you picked an AI version with a terrible Canadian accent, and my AI has got a wheezy smoker's laugh? What? Yeah. We programmed that in. I am not Jeff Teolis. I am, according to one of the funniest things I've seen on the Internet, and again, taking a shot at me, from Stacey Borg. Stacey Borg called me, and I laughed. Not Jeff Teolis. us Jeff T. Oldest because, Marty, I went to a pharmacy, a drugstore, if you will, a drug mart, like a CVS in the States, kind of thing, Walgreens, shoppers here in Canada. Chemists, we call them here. Sure, chemists, yeah. And they looked me up and down and said, yeah, we're giving them the 20% seniors discount. And I didn't ask for it. They didn't ask me about it. They just looked and went, yeah, yeah.
    50:53
    I wanted to cry because I not 55 but I also went 20 That like 10 bucks on this order I good with it I good What do you mean You not 55 You're 54. I mean, it's not like you're 40 going, oh, they thought I was 54. You're literally only one year away. However, I know what a barrier it is to have to come to terms with the fact that you get a senior's discount. my partner refuses to get a discount because of that stigma so anyway really whatever wow i embrace it being the i'm not a cheap fuck by any means i'm very very generous but uh where i can save a buck yeah hell what the hell yeah yeah it's it's like it's like oh i'm really worried about my age but i'm also really fucking cheap oh the dilemma here and then when i got the discount because this happens every thursday i saw it and i went thursday must be your busiest day isn't it and they went oh yeah oh my god you've become that person and then i said well it's the one good thing about turning 55 okay see you later see you next thursday oh my god yeah just yeah yep the discount is is worth it it's real i remember my grandfather years and years ago when he turned 65, because that's the general age of retirement. He proudly wore this shirt all the time because he got it on his 65th birthday. And it just simply said, where's the discount?
    52:35
    So when I told my aunt, my grandfather's daughter, she said, oh, your grandpa will be so proud. I'm like, I kind of felt that. Yeah, it was good. So the equivalent for me is when, oh, wow, is when you turn 50 in Australia. Oh, wow.
    52:53
    Oh, when you turn 50 in Australia, you get sent a bowel cancer kit. Oh, no. And so when I, sorry, they've now sent it to me three times because I refused to do it. I would rather die of bowel cancer than admit that I'm older than 50. You know what? If three strikes and you're out, so what happens your next birthday? They knock on the door. They whip you around and shove a finger up your ass. So you might as well just do the test. By the way, as a male over 50, and there are many of us listening to this program, get that checked out. Get that checked out. It's one of the easy detection things. That's just a little PSA. We lost a media member here in Canada that died at 57 from prostate cancer, and I just thought, oh, that's first of all terrible, but secondly, fuck, that's easy detection for a lot of people. I know. It also didn't help that during the week a friend of mine actually messaged me and said that she's got bowel cancer. Sorry to hear that. Yeah, I'm still not going to do the test. Do it for your loved ones. Cancer sucks. Fuck cancer. Go fuck yourself. Yeah. There are a lot of options there. What am I doing? Am I getting tested for cancer or am I fucking myself? Am I doing these things at the same time? What's going on here? gentle fingering it's not gonna it's not that big of a deal so let's move on so funhouse remake what do you reckon about it i actually played the 2.0 version and hello mark silk the voice of it mark was kind enough to let me play his machine and uh i enjoyed it i i found it very different than the funhouse i knew it looked like funhouse mark did a different version on rudy that was fun I realized, okay, I've got to learn a lot of the rules. Like, I remember very well the left ramp was extremely important, which is kind of something I ignore, really, when I play Funhaus. So, you know how I feel about remake games and classic layouts, obviously, because I have put an order in for one of these such games. So, I like seeing games I love that now offer you a second code, and I'll play Funhaus. But not only that, you've actually now got new cab and playfield art from Flyland Designs, Brian Allen, whom I've met. He's a super, super nice guy. Okay. It looks great. It actually looks great. I've seen Brian's work before. In fact, a good friend of mine, Miles. Hi, Miles. He has a cactus canyon and bought the art. So what he does, actually, I didn't know this about Brian Allen. For a lot of those different translates, he's got Fishtails, you mentioned Funhaus and stuff like that. He actually gets it licensed. And I think, if I recall, when Miles got Cactus Canyon from Chicago Gaming, he purchased that translate either through Brian or through the Chicago website. So good on Brian for doing that. Yeah, he's done some fantastic translates. I think Monster Bash, when he did, was fantastic. So what's really interesting is that Flyland Designs or Brian, he actually sent us head-to-head. He actually sent me some stickers and posters and stuff, and some of the stuff he does is just out of this world. It's one of these things, you look at this person, you think, how come he hasn't done a pinball machine before? Well, now he has, and it just all is right in the world is what I'm saying. So well done, Brian. It's different, though, doing a Translate and then working with the Playfield. So they are night and day, because I've seen a lot of different alternate translates by Brian and other artists. But the play field, it takes a special touch. So I can't recall seeing the Funhaus 2.0 play field art, the new one. Pedretti, right? Yeah, have a look. I mean, it's similar art to the original, but he's just embellished it. Where there was negative space that just had like a block color of blue, he's actually texturized it or added some intricate details into it. Like what I said before about there's theme and then there's theme integration art. That's what he's done. He's just elaborated on the integration of the art and where there was blank spaces, there's now intricate detail. He's done just a phenomenal, phenomenal job. I actually have this feeling, and I could be wrong, but I have this feeling that he has done play field art for a homebrew game. And I am talking really slow like this. Because you're typing on Google or having a dart.
    57:38
    He did the art for Breaking Bad pinball. And it looks phenomenal. I saw that. That one does look good, yeah. Funny enough, it was really funny is that I've actually just Googled it and found out that it was head-to-head pinball that actually shared the image. So whatever. Wow. Funny. It looks amazing. The memory goes when you're a senior. Well, correct. Your memory goes completely when you're dead from bowel cancer. that's just oh jesus that's like that really dark you know okay if we're going dark uh when john wick came out people were in outrage i don't know if you saw the post i put in our little vodka i'm like again they announced john wick and before the anything was shown any artwork i said does the ball go in the dead dog's mouth people were like oh how can you do that i'm like fuck first of all i didn't kill the dog It's a funny joke. And second of all, the dog didn't even have a name. So if it was really that important to him, he would have given the dog a name. So, anyway. The last bit, and this is all for you, Marty, because you're going to have to inform me. I know ABBA is out there, the former 50th anniversary winner of Eurovision, which is obviously a huge, huge show in all of Europe and South Europe, known as Australia. Yeah, we have a new winner.
    59:10
    Who won Eurovision? It was won by a non-binary individual called Nemo with a song called The Code. Thank you. Was it 1.0?
    59:23
    Well deserved. There are three aspects that as an act you can lean into. First one is the novelty side of it, whether you will actually just do a novelty act that will make you laugh. B is actually create a genuinely good song and 3 is whether you're going to put on a good visual show and there's obviously combinations of all of that what I will tell you about Nemo everybody that watches it you might not necessarily like the song it's a bit of breakbeat drum and bass sort of song and a bit of opera here and a bit of there and it's a boy in a dress just so you know non-binary so that might be a bit off-putting for some people but there's this thing that happens with this spinning disc in the middle of the stage where, I don't want to spoil it, I want people to watch it, where you just go, holy crap, you won it as soon as you did that. Sweden was robbed. Sweden was robbed is what I'm going to tell you right now. Which country hosted it? Sweden. Oh, they were the winners last year? They were the winners last year. So an act called Marcus and Martinez had a song called Unforgettable. Again, the staging, the staging for this thing is just like you've never seen. But the reason why, okay, Eurovision Short, it's the same thing every year where the acts that you loved, Australia didn't even qualify for the finals. I thought you told me recently, and again, I've never seen the show. I've seen some highlights. I thought Australia was no longer going to be in Eurovision. No, they were worried about it. So what's actually happened was they used to have almost like an Australian idol where all these acts would compete, and the act that won would then represent Australia. They got it wrong so many times That the last two years they've just sent an act And the act That they sent this year Came second in one of those qualifying things A few years ago With a fantastic song So they were a group called Electric Fields And they had a song called 2000 and Whatever Which was a great song This time they had a song called Milkali It means one blood In the indigenous language And it just wasn't as good unfortunate. Has Australia ever won it? No, we came second. Dami Im had a song I can't remember what it was called, Sound of Silence? Might do now. And it came second and it was so close and it would have come first but people are still very anti-Australia being in Eurovision. For sure. There's Israel. So that was the big controversy of this year was the fact that Israel competed this year and everybody was protesting. Russia hasn't been in Eurovision for the last couple of years obviously because they invaded a country. So what I'm saying is If you just turned on Eurovision and you watched it And you can watch it on YouTube Everyone's got all these recaps and the full shows It's just fun to watch But behind the scenes There's just so much shit going on And so many people protesting Israel being there There was an act that actually got Who's the governing body of all this? How are they non-biased? They're called the European Broadcasting Unit No EBU, the European Broadcasting something. I can't remember. Anyway, so it was a bit of a mess, but still very, very entertaining. Croatia, for the second year running, got robbed. They probably should have won. I remember the one last year. It was fucking awesome. Yeah, remember? That was that cha-cha-cha. This year was just as bonkers crazy, but really, really good. It was just entertaining. one thing i love about eurovision every year is that it's the time of the year that ryan and i chat the most because we both love eurovision so much i wish it was a bigger thing here because i hear your passion i've heard others talk about it there was a time when i religiously watched american idol yes yep sam and i can tell you when i stopped watching it and i've never seen an episode since it's when adam lambert didn't win i do you know what if you had stopped right then, I would have said to you, I bet you it was when Adam Lambert lost. I was like, that is the most entertaining singer I have ever seen, and just different takes. I mean, you could tell he wowed Queen on the spot, to the point where he's been touring with them ever since. Do you think he suffered for not winning? No.
    63:41
    Jennifer Hudson would be another one. Chris Daughtry would be another one that losing might have been the best thing for them. But then there's been success stories too. Kelly Clarkson. Yeah. Carrie Underwood. Yeah, for sure. But there have been some duds too, for sure. But anyway, okay. Anyway, there you go. Are we done? Yeah, I think we are. I will end this by saying you probably won't hear from me for a while because I'm doing a lot of traveling, Marty. Yeah, I know. But is it all pinball travel or is it work travel? None of it's work travel. Yeah, it's all pinball. Pinball leisure. So, again, recording this on May 19th. I'm in Chicago on Thursday the 23rd or whatever it is. I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba for a little tournament that they're running there. The people are wonderful. They've always supported my pinball profile events and other events I've run, so it's nice to be able to go back and spread the love, so to speak, and check out their fine venue. So that's Manitoba. And then I go to the Rochester Pinball Collective for their sixth annual stomp event in Rochester, New York. Looking forward to that. Then I'm off to California for a couple of weeks. The World Championship is happening. IFPA 19 at Jim Belcedo's wonderful place. And there was a stream just recently on Aimless Pinball. So I got to check out some of the machines. And wow, this is going to be a lot of fun for the 80 of us that are coming from all over the world to this great event. So there for a week. Stay in California for a week when my wife and kids come down and we do a little bit of sightseeing, traveling, all that kind of good stuff. And then I basically come home and leave immediately for Edmonton for Yagpin, Canada's biggest tournament, a huge match play tournament, and looking forward to going to that for maybe the fifth or sixth time. So five weekends in a row. I've kind of laid low for a little while. I did InDisc and then didn't do much for a little bit, but it comes in gangbusters right now. And then since the last time we talked, The Beast went on sale and quickly sold out. That's for August 1st to 4th in Buffalo, New York at Pocketeer Billiards. So busy, busy time. We've got Papa coming up in September. I've got Pinberg the week before.
    65:58
    The Beast. So just there's a lot of go, go, go for this guy. So we'll see. If the show doesn't come out till July, Marty was editing. I'm editing and there's your competitive pinball talk for this episode at least everyone it's fun it's really it's tiring that's the thing a lot of these tournaments are really really tiring especially the multi tournaments multi day 15 hour days pacing has got to be the thing I really concentrate because just playing all the time you can go through an hour or two hour stretch where you're just wasting your time your money, it's best just to walk away and maybe grab a nice meal, reset, do whatever you can. But I'm sure we'll talk about that in future episodes. Yeah, good stuff. Well, if you do need to email us, yeah, do it, eh? Come on, eh? Hell, buddy.
    66:57
    Oh, we actually had some good emails, too. I mean, we had the big dicky. They were follow-up emails. Yeah. Oh, we love people emailing us. All people emailing us. You will make us laugh regardless whether you intend to or not. But email us at photoaroundpinball at gmail.com. None of the other social media stuff we care about. So just do that. Or message us via Facebook. That also works. So there you go. Hey, we didn't talk about the young ones. It's great. Alex Moss liked my rebuttal. Thank you, Alex. Thanks, Alex. He's a good guy. Hamish. And hello, Hamish again. Hamish is just a legend. Yeah, the cult. So thanks for the emails. We will be on, I guess, Instagram as well somewhere. our final round pin probably, and our Facebook group. So thanks for listening to our fine little show. We appreciate it, and we will do it again soon. That's it, Marty. Okay, bye, everyone. Bye, everyone.
    67:57
    What a cunt.