TOPCast 60: Michael Schiess

You're listening to Topcast, this old pinballs online radio.

For more information visit them anytime, www.marvin3m.com.

Flash Topcast.

Welcome to another episode of Topcast, the pinball internet radio show.

Tonight we are talking to a gentleman that has opened up a pinball museum in San Francisco.

It's called the Lucky Juju and the website is uju.com.

And this gentleman has opened it up as a nonprofit under the umbrella of the Neptune Beach amusement museum.

And we're going to talk to him tonight about how his museum differs from the Tim Arnold pinball hall of fame and Las Vegas and what he's trying to accomplish and how he's doing things a bit differently than how Tim Arnold is doing it, how he got into collecting and what is the emphasis of the museum.

Special guest.

So we're going to talk to Michael Sheath of the Lucky Juju.

Yes, the Lucky Juju.

What a name and we're going to find out about that name.

We're going to ask Michael about that name and how he came up with the Lucky Juju pinball museum in San Francisco.

And also we're going to talk about the second annual Pacific pinball exhibition which is coming up October 3rd, 4th and 5th of 2008.

And his show is very electro mechanical pinball oriented.

And in 2007, the first year was a phenomenal success.

And he hopes to follow it up again in 2008 to have even more games.

Last year he had like 300 electro mechanical games, undisplayed and available for play.

And this year they hope to top that.

We're going to give him a call right now and see how he's doing.

Hello.

Mike.

Yeah.

Hey, it's Clay.

Are you ready?

Yep, I guess so.

Okay, would Michael tell me about the Lucky Juju?

Let's just start with the Lucky Juju.

Since you know, that's like the central focus of this and what everything comes back to is the Lucky Juju.

Give me the history of this and how you got started in doing the Lucky Juju and why?

Okay.

It started when I was taking a break from work.

I finished my house and I was starting to rent it.

And I wanted to do something artistic.

And I decided that I was going to build interactive art.

And I was working on that concept when all of a sudden I realized that it had already been done.

I wanted to do interactive kinetic art.

And then one of the more I thought about it, the more I thought, well, hell, that's pinball.

I was always into pinball.

I even had a pinball machine.

So I thought, well, heck, why don't I do this?

What would be to maybe get pinball machines and re-seem them?

So I started looking for older pinball machines.

And I happened upon this lady who was close to here who had about 36 machines.

So I started emailing her and finally ended up with 12 of them.

And then I went back and haggled some more and I got the rest of them.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

I said they took them one by one and re-seemed them.

And these are all like electro-mechanicals from the 70s because that's the era that I really liked.

Okay, wait, wait, wait.

But wait, Mike, most people start out with like one game and maybe go to two and then maybe go to three.

And you're saying you went from zero to 60 in like 3.4 seconds.

Well, I had a Gulf Stream.

Okay, that was my first machine and I had that just because I was like that machine.

I had that one for about six years.

I went to that many machines because I had a different purpose in mind.

I wasn't going to do some art with it.

I had this grand idea and I was going to make a real artistic statement by taking old machines

and coming up with my own crazy bizarre theme for it.

And I picked some real winners.

I got Jubilee and I picked some ones that I thought at the time had really crappy artwork.

Yeah, I mean Gulf Stream.

That I didn't like the artwork on and I didn't know that much about which ones were really great players or anything like that.

So that's why I bought so many.

I was going to fix one up just as is and then I was going to take another one because this lady had

doubles of several machines.

So I was going to fix one up to make sure how it worked and everything and then the other one was going to be an art project.

Well, as much as I tried no matter how much whiskey I drank, I just could not get the sand paper onto the play field.

I just couldn't do it.

I kept looking at him and going gee, these things are too precious and I just couldn't do it.

So then I said well crap, what do I do?

I got all these pinball machines and I don't have any place to storm and I hate having them fit their collect and dust.

They should be played.

I didn't want to do it at my house because I didn't want to subject my wife to that kind of terror of having pinheads come over.

So that's where I decided well, I found a place, a friend of mine,

turned me on this little shop that was an upholstery shop and it was empty.

It had been vacant for a year.

So rent was like 500 bucks a month.

So it was enough room for 19 pins.

So I got 19 of them going and I moved them in.

It's kind of funny, I went to the city and I was going to do it all of a shit, get a business license and everything.

But then they said oh yeah, for pinball, any coin op amusement machine, you got to get a business license.

And then you got to get a license for each machine and it's $60 per machine per year and it's non-transferable.

You know, it goes with the machine.

So I just kind of went, ugh.

So I said oh, well thank you, you know, I said you're not at least.

So you can open up a pinball parlor and I said no, no, no.

And I left and I went ahead and put all the machines in there.

I took all the coin mechs out, put them on free play and I put a donation jar out.

And that's kind of how lucky Gigi started.

I didn't do any advertising.

In fact, I was actually kind of hiding from the city of Alameda because I didn't want the

athlete, I didn't want them to come down and go you know you're running this without a business license.

Because there's no way I could afford it.

I don't, you know, no wonder that our kids went out of business.

So I ran it like that until the fire marshal showed up and

inspected me and at that point the city found out that I had, that I was indeed, you know,

running a pinball parlor.

Wait, wait, wait, Mike, how did the city, how did the fire marshal find out about you?

I mean, what, I mean, were you just like spreading the action of the whole building?

There's other businesses and you know, it's kind of a weird old building.

So they were just making the rounds.

They make the rounds every two or three years and they just happen to come in and

they didn't care about a business license or any of that thing.

All they wanted to do was inspect it for fire.

So you know, they came in and did their thing and then they made a report out and sent it

to the city and that's when the city went, oh, you know, so the city all of a sudden,

you know, when I get this thing, oh, well, it looks like you've been doing business and so,

you know, you got to cough up this amount of money for however many years you've been doing it

blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, well, what if I was a non-profit, you know?

And they go, oh, if you were a non-profit, you wouldn't have to pay anything.

Well, I've been working on my non-profit thing and right when I got the letter from the city,

about two days later, I got approval from the IRS as a non-profit and they did it retroactive

for almost a year retroactive from when I asked.

So it was with much pleasure that I see Roxette copy of the 501 C3 and mailed it to the city and

the city basically had to leave me alone. And what is a 501 C exactly?

Oh, 501 C3. It is a tax exempt non-profit status. It's a tax exempt status that the IRS affords

any entity that is the follows under the guidelines for the 501 C3 which basically it is,

it can be a religious organization, it can be a community benefit, a public benefit entity,

it can be an educational facility, it can be a museum, it can't be like a social club.

You know, they have limitations. If you do it, if you, you know, like this, there's a train club,

it's a kind of a hobbyist train club, they collect trains and they form to 501 C3. I kind of

looked at how they did it. And basically what it is is you have to do something that benefits

the community that you live in. So I was already doing the art shows along with the pinball

and I was doing some free community work like letting some community groups in and I've given

lectures on pinballs how they worked and the history of them. So I sent them all that material

and they granted me the 501 C3. How difficult was that to do? I mean is this the same thing

like that Tim Arnold did and I mean how long did this take you and how much work was it?

Yeah it's exactly what Tim Arnold did. In fact, Tim Arnold and I have talked about this a little

bit. He had got his before I got mine. It took about a year and a half to two years and

it's filling out a lot of paperwork and you know you have to register with the state. You just

basically have to go through the whole process. Some people you know hire the lawyers and in fact

there's a lot of nonprofits out there now and it's almost it's become a business almost

not almost it has become a business. A lot of people are making money off the nonprofits because

it's hard to do it's hard to run one. I pretty much do it. I've had a little bit of help and we

have a board of directors but basically the same way Tim did it which is you know you sit down

you fill out the forms and you submit them and I remember Tim had a little glitch with his and

they sent it back and he had to you know fill in some more forms and you know correct something

and they sent mine back once and basically it was because I hadn't signed something. So I you know

I was but I first got a back of that. Oh crap they're not going to give it to me but then I read it

and I said oh okay they just want me to sign this form here so I find and send it back and then

another three months went by and then all of a sudden I get the letter you know so once we had

that then we were able to actually charge admission and that was real key to making the thing work because

the donation thing was it was great but it did work financially because a lot of people you know

when you ask for donation they you know they'd feel like well I don't really want to put anything

in so I'm not going and so I couldn't force people to put money in I could give them a dirty look

but that was about it. So going to going with the 501c3 allowed me to put up a sign that said admission

and I didn't have to get a business license at least pay you know pay the all the fees that they

wanted and I could legally ask for admission so that finally made it financially feasible because

before that we were we were basically losing money. So were you covering the $500 a month and rent

and the electric and so on and so forth? Yeah we're up and you know we're in parts all that.

Yeah. Now you're early open a couple days a week right?

Actually we're open three days a week now we used to be just Friday and Saturday night and then we finally went

to Sunday and eventually our goal was to open up every day except for Monday.

And what you're at? You're in what Alameda California? Yeah Alameda California it's on the

east side of the San Francisco Bay area we're right next to Oakland it's actually an island.

Okay and in the only reason you picked this location is just because the rent was cheap.

No I live here. Okay. All right. I didn't want to have to travel too far.

You know because we've got an EM pinball club here in Detroit and we had and kind of like a clubhouse

and we lost it you know and at the time it was it was basically free and you know we were going

to we were looking for a place to rent but it was just it was just turning into a huge hassle

finding somewhere that was a big enough B everybody would access to and C we could afford to pay for.

Yeah well there wasn't any we at that point it was just me and you know my whole purpose

at that point was besides having all these machines that I just didn't want sitting around

collecting dust there was no place to play pinball and it kind of there was there was a friend of mine

Mac who's kind of infamous in the in the Berkeley Oakland area and he had this basement thing going on

and he would do it every Friday night in fact he still does it and it was it was such a

cool scene but the problem was is that you couldn't tell anybody about it you had to it was purely

it was a kind of scene it you know it was it was his house his basement and so the rule was you

couldn't tell anybody about it you had to bring them down there and that way you you were responsible

for them so wasn't really open to the public and so I actually talked to Mac and said hey look

you know what I really like what you're doing here but I'd like to make something that the public

could come to so you know would you mind if I do that now when I'm just going to put out a donation

jar and ask for donations and try to pay for the rent with that and he said he said yeah go ahead

you know I think that's a great idea but I don't think it'll work and you know then it turned

out to work pretty well and he was pretty happy because it took kind of took the load off of him

well when you say like you mean just every Friday night he essentially has a pinball party

yeah basically and why how many machines does he stop for a while because he had a he got married

and had a kid and and that's kind of taken up a lot of his time still but he was he was close

for about a year and a half and that's kind of right when I was starting to open up so actually

we took up the slack because there were people that were used to going to max and now they were

then they started coming over to the juju and they didn't mind you know kicking in the five bucks

and supporting it you know now with Mac did he have any donations no you just basically brought

some beer or wine or something else and can you have can you have alcohol at your place no

not anymore we used to do that and then we had some neighbors they called the beverage control

people on us and I had to go to court on that one well what do you mean can you explain

with that can you explain that one well basically every month the other way I was getting people to come

to check out pinball with I started this kind of a unique building it's inside but there's

these glass windows around the whole space so I had all these machines lining and you got to kind

of imagine it's just wide enough for two rows of machines with about six feet in between them

so you can get people can walk back and forth really easily but it's just nothing but machines

and on one side there's windows and so from the outside you're basically looking at the back of

a bunch of machines which you know I thought well that's kind of a waste so I I started I built

all these panels to put into the glass wall and what I do is is that hang hang artwork up in there

and put it up into the window around the whole thing facing outward that I have these art shows

so people come and look at this look at the weird art and then and then they they wanted to

to pay make a donation and go in there and play pinball and that's what really made it take off

for us because up until that point we weren't really making the rent so after we did that we got

a lot more people interested in the pinball but what was the deal with with the alcohol the I mean

what was I'm sorry I kind of skirted that question didn't I well with every art opening you know

usually serve alcohol right wine or whatever and we never would sell it we'd just buy some bottles

and cheap bottles of wine and you know we'd have that for people and she got a funny because

we weren't even selling it and we still have people bringing their own beer you know and it was

all cool all the neighbors upstairs started getting tweaked because they they had just had a kid

and I've done all these favors for them and everything but I guess we were getting a little

noisy or down there and even though we had an understanding and it really wasn't the kind of

place that you should be bringing up a kid and they started complaining and we just basically said

hey look you know we're not going to go anywhere you know you guys might think about going somewhere

because you know every the the noise here it is the better we're doing you know I'm not going to stop

that so they figured oh the way to get rid of us would be to call up the ABC and have them bust us

and then they also call the cops up on us well you know for making too much noise well the cops

basically kind of looked at them and said what are you guys doing here you got a kid and you're living

so kind of backfire on them they had to leave I went to court over the charges and they were dismissed

but basically I said yeah it's it's too much to risk at this point to get busted again

because I think we kind of lucked out it's it's a gray law about even though we weren't selling

alcohol they call it the bottle club I guess if you have like a some kind of form of entertainment

and you charge for it and you don't sell alcohol but you let people bring it in it's basically

encouraging a nuisance I guess so that's that's how that went down so for private parties we can

let people bring in liquor but for when we're open to the public we have to tell them now

huh now what the artist thing you know how do you get artists to display their their wares at

at a pinball place I mean it seems really kind of odd well basically they they usually get a

hold of me and show me some of their work and if it's strange enough or cool enough then then we

make arrangements to to show it it's got to be pretty much flat art because it goes in between a

window basically they can go online we got two websites they can go to and send stuff in

a lot of it you know would amount they come by they come by for a show and they go on that's

pretty interesting and I tend to show people that don't get into galleries you know like there's

a lot of photographers that that takes some pretty interesting pictures and a lot of it I try to

tailor to have something to do with either pinball or the circus or amusement or

there's some facet of that you know science fiction you know any of that stuff that appeals to

to I guess kids that never grow up like me now where did the lucky juju name come from

well that came from she that goes way back uh give it to you tarzan movie where um where the

you know the the uh blana is marching through and he's got you know uh the natives are carrying

his stuff and they they stop and they go on and he goes well what's wrong why why are you putting

this stuff down they they they point and they go oh that's for us bad juju we don't go and he goes that's

nonsense so that's where I heard juju the first time was that that tarzan movie and then I looked it

up and juju turns out to be this west african belief kind of like voodoo but it doesn't have any

evil connotations necessarily it just happens to do with luck and she I don't know it just

sounded so cool I couldn't call it the lucky mojo all right all right no no did you ever realize

your dream of you know of taking a pinball machine and and re-arting it as it may be well

you know yes to a certain degree I have um I'm still working on and actually a full size pinball

machine that I that's going to be re re done and it's um she do I want to spill the beans now

probably not oh come on oh uh but I I am still working on that and I have several other ideas

that I've already been working on and the whole concept behind that is I don't want to ruin a pinball

machine I I'm I decided that I'd only do ones that you know the play field was really worn

so the one I'm trying to work on now is a hot shot it's a you know got leave for a player

right 1973 yeah and so you know I know the pool thing on that it's kind of a thing I think it's

Gordon Morris and artwork um and that one of my favorites and um I didn't really like the pool

themed games I mean some of them are good but um that one I just thought I always see a lot of

pinball machines where I thought you know the artwork has nothing whatsoever to do with the play

and the action on the play field or on the machine like for example um um

an example of a machine that does have good follow through on that end in other words uh

form follows function it's like quantike you know the Williams I think what 73 right um

it's the whole theme is striking it rich right now you're in that you're in the Yukon and you've

struck gold well what do you got on the play field you got this little flop machine real and if

you line them up right and then get the ball in the in the center pocket it gives you you know

uh two extra balls in a game and 5,000 points or whatever you all of a sudden you know you don't

even know what you did most of the time and you get the the ball in there and that saucer and it

gives you all this you know it goes crazy and uh I always loved that you know because it was like

see that's just what it says it's gonna do and also another one is like fireball a machine that

a lot of people can't stand but really as far as the art and what the machine does it's perfect

it it on the on the on the back glass it's hurling balls and on the play field it's it does the same

thing right and I I think that's really important I think that's that's what's lacking in a lot of

the machines um that are really fun to play but just you know the artwork doesn't match up

now yeah that makes sense but tell me now tell me about though the weird Donnie in the helicopters game

you have that in your museum right yeah actually we're gonna have an opening on June 6th

um that's one that Wade Cross and Dirty Donnie did Dirty Donnie's um an artist uh he's actually from

Canada he's been living in the Bay Area for quite a while um and he and Wade hooked up on some

other project and Wade Kraus is one of the few people who actually can uh reproduce a play field

and it's been licensed uh through Steve Young and Gottlieb to uh and he has permission to reproduce

play fields um yeah I've got I've got a Gottlieb knockout play field right here on the wall

looking at right now that that Wade did yeah Wade is just amazing I mean he uh do you like it um

I do when I don't there's some things I like about it and some things I don't um I say overall

the quality is excellent but some of the manufacturing techniques that he did in it I question

well you should um you should write him because you're uh you're a mythrow yourself you know um

but you haven't installed it yet no I have not installed it yeah um well like one of the things

he does just real quickly is he didn't like the quality of the plywood so he actually you know um

got plywood and then bought walnut veneer veneer I think it was walnut or some harder wood

and laminated it on top of the of the high grade plywood just to get a hard surface

which um you know so he actually started off with better um plywood than the then the the pinball

companies we're using yeah this one has a birch top a birch top and back so okay um

yeah uh so he and uh dirty donny got together for that project uh donny hand painted the play field

uh weighed um he basically reproduced a king pin uh got lived king pin play field and um

then donny uh went ahead and painted it and another another person raw did some of the metal flake on it

and then weighed also does uh backlasses and so he uh took uh donny's backlasses on and screened that on glasses

and that's kind of how they uh made them money to be able to produce it as they sold the backlasses

they made about I think 30 to 40 backlasses installed them and I bought one of those

yeah yeah when these guys you know I I mean I'm never going to install this knockout play field I

bought it just because a wins anybody else ever going to make them and b you kind of want to

support these guys when they do it and see it it was you know frankly it was priced pretty

fairly I thought I'd be honest with you I don't know how he does um I he's um he's fortunately um

um doesn't have much of an over because he does it all himself um and and he has a day job but um

I'm really hoping like that he's going to be able to to get this going on on a bigger scale because

he's able to do what you know I don't know anybody else that they can do this he takes a play field

um like the visible pinball you know about that yeah I was going to I was going to ask about that

yeah I know you know the only other guys doing play fields are the guys in Canada like when I needed

a mermaid the mermaid project done um the guys in Canada did that you did because you did that one

right and how did you do the play field when you reproduced it well I uh Tim Arnold had a new old

stock mermaid play field which was kind of an interesting story where he bought back in Lansing

Michigan when he was living here he bought a mermaid from a guy that I guess was just trashed

you know in 1951 Gottlieb Woodrail mermaid and as he's pulling out and he bought it for like a

hundred bucks and this is back in the probably the 70s and as he's pulling out of the guy's driveway

the guy comes running out of the house with the box and his hand going wait wait wait stop stop stop

and Tim's like whoa you know what's this all about and the guy hands on this box and it's got a

brand new NOS mermaid play field in the box wow so so I went to I flew to Las Vegas and once summer

and I brought a laptop with me in a HP 4600 scanner and I scanned the play field then and you know

I had been sitting on the project for a long time because I wasn't sure if I wanted to spend the

money to do this it's you know it's a lot of cake you got to put up to get it done and um and it

was it was a by a man it was a boatload of money and I wasn't sure that anybody would buy him I mean

I didn't know how many people needed him how many mermaids are out there for that matter you know

yeah so I see you know so you know I basically threw another guy I contracted to have these made

and you know gave him the artwork and you know they you know they awarded the inserts from

Formos they got the I think they got the wood from like Russia or something when the playwoods

is I would say of equal quality to what Wade's using um you know they they did overall they did

pretty good job um you know there's I'm kind of a good you know have criticisms of both

about both come about both Wade's and the Canadian guys but you know overall they're both

doing great work and I mean that criticism are really small to be frank you know they're just

little picky nitpicky things yeah yeah um because I believe Steve Young went ahead and and okay the

um the knockout yep gave it his blessing um so he did get the he did get licensed um

and I know he just did a limited run of those and you know part of the problem is

getting a good original you know to base everything on um yeah and he didn't have um I know

and in one part he was making the circle too perfect and and Steve had a point out he was no

they're they're actually not that perfect uh you know and so you had to correct that so it did

go through a couple revisions and um the thing is that Wade I believe what he does it's different

from everybody else is he actually uh creates the um the files that that where the artwork and the

cutting pattern are matched and um from what I understand the Canadian guys are working off of

art files because they're doing they're basically doing the newer machines like fathom I believe and

right yeah so they still have the actual uh film that was used for silk screening right and once

you have that then all your whole placement is pretty much already done because it's got to match

the artwork whereas if you've got to scan the artwork and then match it up to a CAD file you know

that that takes them a little bit of doing you know and um he's he made this me the way he's

done it because he did it for me with the with the visible pinball machine um what I did with I

handed him a strip down surf champ play field and he pulled the artwork off of it and all the

whole patterns front and back and then I got that and took it to somebody else to have the

uh have it cut out of plastic well first we did a wood mock up to make sure everything was okay

and then made some corrections and then did the first plastic uh cutting and then we ran off

four of them and I took him back to Wade I put the inserts in and then he silk screened the black

outline artwork on it and it all it all matched up you know perfectly and then when I put it all

back together the damn thing plays faster and better than a rebuilt new one well then just to let

people know what you're doing here is basically the visual pinball is a clear pinball machine and

basically you constructed this thing out of a out of acrylic right uh you're out of um uh part of

it the play field is one type of plastic and then the the cabinet is um it's acrylic yeah

and what was the what was the thinking behind this and and and how long did it take you and how much

did it cost yeah the numbers aren't you know that one yet uh I tell you it took about a year to do

it I'd say it took about you know we didn't we weren't pan ourselves and in fact they got a lot

of squaring up to do with Wade I mean that's the great thing about Wade he he just like the project

that he and I just worked on it and you know the idea is we're gonna sell one of these well we

haven't sold one yet but um the idea behind it was um and it's kind of the the idea behind the museum

and it's how we differ from what Tim's doing um Tim is more collection minded which is great because

that I don't have to do that I'm more science art and history minded behind pinball and a big part

of that would be pinball mechanisms and showing uh people kids and adults how these things work uh

and so the the the ultimate um exhibit would be in my mind to have a clear pinball so that's

that was the first thing I concentrated on was you know what if you could have an electro-mechanical

pinball that you could see everything working while you played it and at first I just did a clear

play field and then I realized well that's great but you really can't see everything so then I

thought well see how much harder would it be to build the whole thing out of clear plastic

and it was hard but um I was amazed how well it's held up I mean I've I've been taken

in the round um I had it at this uh big maker fair out in uh San Rafael I mean San Matale

and and I've taken I was at the Pacific pinball expo last year um and now it's going to be living at the

uh at the juju's new uh exhibit room but it's great because people kids look at that and they just go

wow you know this is how they work well what what's that switch to and what is this transfer what

to hexat and you know what it does is it gets them interested in how they work and gosh what do

you what do you know we're gonna have more scientists and less lawyers what how much does this thing

weigh hmm it's uh it's I I can move it and set it up by myself is it more than a regular pinball

yeah it is it's uh I'd say it's about 300 pounds as opposed to 250 okay and in just a ballpark

what do you think this cost you to make about 20 grand to 25 really that much huh well

now actually probably more I mean that's not really including all the labor and all the programming

um that basically all the programming you know it I'd say you know the first one

is always going to cost you a heck of a lot because you got to put all this initial work on into it

who wants the other program you can crank out a few like we did crank out for a play field

um and I can go back and I can crank out more cabinets and it'll be cheaper because I've

already got the program but that program that first program cost you a bundle are you talking

about are you talking about a CNC router program or something correct okay okay and so basically

Wade did manufacture this for you uh Wade did all the programming uh for the play field

and for the cutouts for the head and the light baffle uh the mechanical board for the head

and the light baffle for the head and then my brother Christian and I we built science exhibits

for the exploratorium he and I and another friend uh did the cad work for the cabinet

and uh and the mechanical board and all the other all the other stuff and so we um Wade

did all the programming and artwork for the plastics and the play field and the glass

of the back glass which is basically just plastic with the black outline artwork on it

and um and then we assembled the whole thing

huh in the shop and so like you're talking about the the light insert panel on the back glass

where that's behind the back glass that's all clear everything basically everything is clear

in the game yeah yeah everything's clear uh in fact it's um it's almost too clear uh

it's uh i'm not gonna say it's hard to play because i play surfchat that's you know that's a

really fun game um so i know how i know what everything's supposed to do but if somebody never

played that before they'd probably kind of get well you know it's kind of a little overwhelming

because even though the information is there so what scores you know how things score and stuff

like that not having the artwork there it's really distracting you know with the um thing through

and um and the ball moves quite a bit faster on that plastic play field now do you have um

so the play field basically is the black key lines on it and i know what you mean i played white

woods and key line play fields and and and and and they're weird to play they just it's not

the same kind of pinball that you're used to right yeah yeah now do you imagine one that

that didn't even have wood there that you could see right through it so it's even it's even stranger

and the lights are a little more intense too oh yeah now do you how do you like to like the

the bottom cabinet in the bottom board do you like anything um well it's got all the standard

lights of course it's it's basically it's the whole machine exactly as it is only everything's

reprodu everything wood is reproduced in the same thickness uh of plexiglass uh but we did add in my

my brother christian is a neon artist so he meant he bent up a big long um you of white phosphorus

coated neon which we put in the bottom of the underneath the mechanical board and uh it's

not it's actually on a dimmer and everything so you can adjust the the brightness of it and it

lights up the whole thing so that actually really helps for the uh exhibition part of it you

know for showing people all the mechanisms because they're now they're all they're all lit up

from below so you can clearly see everything okay now tell me about um the lucky you said

something about a lucky juju exhibition room yeah we um the juju started off as one room and then

we got a little storage room which became the shop then we added on another room it's I guess

us playing pinball they're kind of drove the other people out um and so we got another room and

in that room the first room was electro mechanical machines only the second room I decided well

people want newer stuff so I put some eighties late seventies and eight early eighties solid state

machines and then we got a third room um and mind you these rooms are small there's maybe six

machines in the in the second room and then in the third room I said out what to help they're

really screaming for twilight zone and these other machines which I swore I'd never have

but um I have a couple really cheap so I got twilight zone and Adams family and then some other

machines came in so I put some DMD machines in there because at all point you know hey you got

to represent the whole era so that was uh the three three errors that I thought we could

dealt deal with I'd like to deal with earlier machines but the truth of the matter is anything

with a push up on it they don't get they don't understand you got to push the ball up and I we

have a lot of kids come through here and you know I'd be burning out coils right and left if I put

those in so the last room I decided okay if I'm going to do the history of pinball a little short

version of the early stuff that's where to do it so I said okay I'm going to put the clear pinball

in there I've got this other kinetic pinball art piece that I did and then I've got a lineup of

I've also got Wade and dirty donnies helicopters machine and then I put in a ballet bumper

and then a Humpty Dumpty I'm getting that on Friday somebody's going to loan it to us

and in the middle of that I'm really honored that we got Russ Jensen's Metro

and you know Russ Jensen was an incredible pinball historian okay if you look on the IPD

geez sure I think more than three quarters of the pictures seem to come from him and

when he passed away last year a lot of people donated money and they managed to buy his his

favorite machine from the family which was Metro and this is mainly the work of Rob Hawkins

and Don Muting who did the pinball collectors resource right and Tim Arnold had the Metro for a while

and then it went to Pinagogo and it was there for a bit and then I just picked it up from

Pinagogo and it's going to live at the the Lucky Juju's exhibit room for a while

now these machines do you own all these machines generally speaking or do people loan you machines

I own I own the lion's share of them and I have a few machines that are on loan

Dan Miller's loaned a couple machines and Larry's Arterian is always extending the loan of

machines to us he has a pretty incredible gotley Woodrail collection and a wedgehead collection

and Dan Miller he led me a DMD the pinball magic and also the a real favorite that stern

Orbiter one right right yeah so now but your original intention was to stay a lecture mechanical then

yeah yeah that was the original intent and I tell you I've kind of held true to the one

that I wanted to do which was I want to make it I wanted to separate the sounds I just the

one thing that I was used to drive me nuts was when I'd be playing an electro mechanical and they're

you know listening to those sweet chimes and bells and there's some electronic machine going

you know crazy or talking or some such crap and I just that you know not that I not that

they don't like that the electronic stuff I loved it I do electronic music in my spare time

but I just didn't like to hear them to get it to me it was just like yeah you know so

so I separated them so in one room it's nothing but chimes and then the other room you can get

your electronic fix but I just I keep them separated and that's one thing that I'll I'll always do

and we actually do that at the expo which can I talk about that for a second?

well wait before we get to that yeah we'll come to that in just a second but you know one

thing that we touched on we didn't really talk about was the dirty donny game um that you know we

talked a little bit about that now is this machine that you have actually his or or they're

multiple maids of this of this game it's one of it's one of a kind it's um yeah there's only one

and it was based on the 73 Gottlieb kingpin which is a good drop target game and he

and where did he come up with the what is the artwork theme on that?

well uh do you know the band helicopters the Swedish rock band well that's that's what it's

based on um I to be honest with you I don't know if they asked them him to do that or not but um

oh I know what it was they asked him to do the album cover they asked dirty donny uh to do an album cover

for the band so he did that and the artwork is is based on um I'm not sure if you remember Ed

Big Daddy Roth from the um 60s and 70s yep he did um rat think yep yep okay that kind of art you

know with the monster uh the monsters driving a Ford you know right that kind of stuff yeah

with a big shifter in the air and all that stuff yeah that's kind of style it is and the

helicopters band really wanted that so he had done their cover he basically took that cover and

trans transfruted into a back glass with the help of Wade and then they went ahead and finished

the whole thing with um with the play field and they didn't stop there though it's kind of neat

Wade went ahead and modified the play field he put in I think four or five big holes in it with uh

with covers and dirty donny's trademark is the shrunken head and he actually makes these little

model shrunken heads that you can buy and he paints a lot of shrunken heads and they're they're

classic they look really cool so Wade modified the circuitry so that you have to go do certain things

and it lights up a shrunken head from underneath the play field and it's pretty cool effect

because it's uh it's an actual little model or a little rubber shrunken head and it's underneath

the play field and the the hole we cut out about an inch and a half in diameter and it's

covered with clear plastic and you can't see anything until it lights up and once it lights up

there's this shrunken head under there and you know it it almost looks like a hologram but it's

actually the 3D you know shrunken head so you write up uh I think four or five shrunken heads and

when you get to the last one then the um siren on the top the spinning flashing light siren

goes off and you win an extra ball but it's really hard I mean it's incredibly hard to do it

wow well now what's this other thing that you uh you also made like an aluminum trailer with

pinball machines in it that you bring to some of the shows what's up with that

oh that's that's the little juju and that was um uh spraying out of an idea that

this one one person who's been helping me through this um

help me work in the little the lucky juju since it's inception and his name's Jim Gruber

and he's just one of the people just really like what I was doing and just started helping me run it

and um he's always coming up with these ideas and this was another hair brain idea he said hey

look why don't we put some pinball machines on a truck and take them around you know and try

and you know get people to play pinball like that you know it's like we're always trying to get

people to come to the juju so we were jamming on that and then all of a sudden this um this old

Spartan manner um just kind of appeared you know the guy wanted uh about 1200 bucks for it

and it was like a 1947 Spartan manner um it's like an air stream only better uh they're a little

better built um but it's 1947 so it needed a lot of work but it was just what I wanted because I

wanted to gut it you know so it took us about a year and a half and uh we actually popped the body

off we we took everything out and we got it down to a shell on aluminum shell and it's built like an

aircraft so it's got um it's got bulkhead aluminum bulkheads in there and we actually you know

took the body off the frame and it's a metal frame because the floor was shot so if I should

say I reinforced the whole metal frame with the help of of another person Dylan Kelly who did a

lot of the welding then we put in a new axle uh so that so it would uh wouldn't jar the machines

too much we put in a battery box so that we could put 12 batteries in there and an inverter so if

we ever wanted to go camping and play pinball we could do that we wouldn't need electricity

and then the last thing we did was we put in four hydraulic feet and that was really cool um

so those welded into each corner of this whole thing all things about 25 feet long it's about

um seven feet tall on the inside probably less than that actually it's about six and a half feet

tall and it doesn't go it doesn't curve drastically like an air stream it goes up the walls go

up straight and then they curve over it looks like a big silver loaf of bread that's that's kind

of leaning forward like it's in a hurry so when I uh I've got all the machines and I have to

strap them in the back so that I can tow it otherwise it's it's too heavy on the tongue as a

tow vehicle so uh I push them all the back and it's and it holds six machines and then when I show

up uh you know wherever I'm going to put it I I unhitch it and then I go inside and I push a button

and all the hydraulic feet come down and it lifts the whole thing up and it levels itself

and it does it pretty well I mean I rarely ever have to correct it and so it's up on all four feet

so it's not on the wheels and there's no it's not sprung in any way and it's really solid

and everything's level so then I push all the machines into place and uh and uh and uh

there's electricity I plug into their juice and I'm good to go and what are the six machines that

you're running in it well right now because I take it to a lot of schools and um you know I'm trying

to try to get it on you know the educational thing through pinball trim outer space so I've got

um let's see you walk in the door for if you see his uh sky lab and then a Apollo and then 2001

and then I've got outer space and then I've got uh space Odyssey and then the last machine in the back

is Mars Trek that was sky I was waiting for you to say Mars Trek it was really waiting for that one

well I tell you the one I'm working on right now that we're restoring down at the at our storage

is rocket three oh you're the ballet game yeah yeah that's a pretty rare game

not a Tim Arnold said it and I just said man that's that's a cool game yeah it's really rare

yeah I know and it's so weird because we're a 501 c3 we we run a little thing in Craigslist we say

hey you know why don't you donate your machine to us and we'll give you a tax write off so we

actually get we've gotten a few machines that way and it's great um and some of them get fixed up

and they go right into the juju like um uh the guy I have a name Paul I think uh gave us a umbraeon

you know and it was a great chip little little wear on the play field but you know didn't really

have to do anything to it and went right in there and people love it uh rocket three

that was like cat like one of your road trips that I've seen on the DVD where we had to go up

in the northern California into some backwards territory that you wouldn't you wouldn't believe I

mean I couldn't make this stuff up and me and Dan Fonds another uh juju regular helper and he and I

you know took us a whole day to go up there but this guy you know called I wrote me an email I'm

saying yeah I got this rocket three and you know you just kind of you go world can you send me a

picture now I don't have a camera I'm gonna well uh you're gonna donate it and yeah I'll just give it

to you guys so should we go up there you know well yeah we finally get there and we see it's out

on the porch let me just go oh shit yeah the things probably you know a real turd and we just bet

I don't know how much in gas and whole day going out to get this thing and and and it's just like

all the paint is just totally flaked you know on the on the side of the cabin I'm gonna oh shit

so we go okay you know we go up there and we look at it and the back glass is pert near perfect

and the play field was was you know didn't have it the the wearer you know and and all the plastics were

there and I was just kind of wow you know wow that's great so uh we thanked him profusely and loaded

it up and so now we're in the process of painting and thanks to your DVDs by the way yeah yeah yeah

well that's that's pretty cool I mean so you get you put a thing on Craigslist and how many machines

do you think you've had donated that'll probably at least 20 wow that's pretty good now how many

machines is the juju own well the juju doesn't really um what the juju is is me uh and I

and actually the juju is not the nonprofit the nonprofit is an Neptune Beach amusement museum

and it's actually we're changing the name to the Pacific pinball museum and the way it works is

um I still own all my machines and I just lend them to the nonprofit and the nonprofit gets to

generate money off of them for the for the museum effort that's that makes sense so basically

um they any machines that are donated to the museum those belong to the museum but the juju is

actually because I started it and I didn't start it as a corporation I just started it as a as a

sole owner so all the machines that I buy um they still belong to me at some point I will donate

them all to the museum but this point um machines donated to the museum belong to the museum

and my machines I'm just loaning to the museum right that's pretty much how Tim Arnold's doing it too

yeah yeah real similar in fact it's funny when Tim and I first met um uh he I was staying at his