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Backbox Pinball Podcast

Pintastic New England·video·48m 49s·analyzed·Sep 13, 2022
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Backbox Pinball hosts share podcasting strategies, community mission, and industry lessons.

Summary

Lauren Gray and Rebecca Salem, co-hosts of Backbox Pinball Podcast (launched 2019, expanded 2021), deliver a seminar at Pintastic New England on podcasting fundamentals. They discuss their mission to highlight women and underrepresented voices in the pinball community, covering practical topics including format selection, guest management, editing challenges, sponsorship ethics, and audience building. The hosts emphasize the importance of defining your 'why,' understanding your listener, finding unique value, and maintaining editorial integrity despite financial pressures.

Key Claims

  • Backbox Pinball Podcast started in 2019 with Lauren Gray solo, Rebecca Salem joined in 2021

    high confidence · Lauren Gray, opening remarks at Pintastic New England seminar

  • Lauren Gray has a six-year background in radio before starting the podcast

    high confidence · Lauren Gray, personal background section

  • Rebecca Salem came from a social work background and women's pinball leagues in Austin, Texas area

    high confidence · Rebecca Salem, personal background and mission description

  • Backbox Pinball's listenership is almost 50% male despite targeting women in pinball

    high confidence · Lauren Gray, listener demographics section

  • The podcast ranks as the number one hobby show in Pakistan and scores high in Czech Republic

    medium confidence · Lauren Gray, international listener analytics discussion

  • They aim for two episodes per month but sometimes fall short due to personal challenges

    high confidence · Lauren Gray, frequency and consistency discussion

  • The hosts hired a professional editor (Jen) which significantly improved production quality

    high confidence · Lauren Gray and Rebecca Salem, editing challenges section

  • They have two sponsors: one providing merchandise, one providing momentum; they also have Patreon supporters

    high confidence · Lauren Gray, sponsorship and listener support section

  • Lauren lost her ID at the airport during travel to the event

    high confidence · Lauren Gray, sidebar comment during community section

  • The pinball community they participate in is notably diverse compared to the larger national pinball population which is predominantly white and male

    high confidence · Rebecca Salem and Lauren Gray, community diversity discussion

Notable Quotes

  • “We really enjoy what we do. A little bit about us. As I said, I started the podcast. I do have an audio-radio background. I did radio for about six years.”

    Lauren Gray@ 1:58 — Establishes Lauren's professional radio background as credential for podcasting expertise

  • “We have an amazing editor, Hi Jen. She's great. I found her because she edited another podcast that I listen to, that's romance novels. If you're interested in romance novels, come talk to me.”

    Lauren Gray@ 11:07 — Demonstrates the practical value of hiring professional help and shows how cross-industry networking led to finding their editor

  • “Editing sucks. It's awful. It is very time-consuming... that is the reason why podcasts fail or podcasts go dark.”

    Lauren Gray@ 10:17 — Identifies editing as the primary barrier to podcast sustainability

  • “Our community, it's very white and very male. I'm just going to say it. I'm like, it's a lot of white dudes. We love you all.”

    Rebecca Salem@ 16:06 — Directly addresses demographic imbalance in broader pinball community as motivation for their podcast's mission

  • “It's a side hobby. It's a hustle, but I can't pay my mortgage... You cannot survive on this.”

    Lauren Gray@ 23:52 — Realistic perspective on podcast economics and financial sustainability

  • “I want our content to be available to everybody for free and if you like it so much and have extra money that you want to give us we'll take it we'll take it”

    Lauren Gray — States their philosophy on paywalls and content accessibility, emphasizing reaching audiences with limited income

Entities

Lauren GraypersonRebecca SalempersonBackbox Pinball PodcastproductPintastic New EnglandeventJenpersonJeff ParsonspersonDave O'NeillpersonSarah Axl Rose DenisepersonBells and Chimesorganization

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Podcast economics are unsustainable as primary income source; hosts must maintain day jobs despite significant time investment in production, editing, and guest coordination

    high · Lauren: 'I would love to make my living being a pinball podcaster, but let me just break that down for you. You cannot survive on this. I mean, it's a side hobby. It's a hustle, but I can't pay my mortgage'

  • ?

    business_signal: Sponsorship model mixing merchandise, community supporters, and Patreon tiers; hosts maintain strict ethical standards on sponsor selection despite financial pressure

    high · Lauren: 'I had to turn down a CBD advertiser... that's not legal here in Texas also like my job... but you know you do you man... there's lots of other podcasts that will take your money'

  • ?

    community_signal: Backbox Pinball actively highlighting and amplifying women's voices and underrepresented communities within pinball through deliberate podcast mission and guest selection

    high · Rebecca: 'I was really excited to get to bring that lens to pinball... getting to do our podcast around the community that we get to be a part of and like bring that to the light so that way other communities that are structured similarly get to see like, oh yeah, your community looks like this, our community looks like this'

  • ?

    community_signal: Austin/San Antonio Texas pinball community characterized as notably more diverse and inclusive than national pinball demographic, with active women's leagues and diverse player base

    medium · Rebecca: 'The community that Lauren and I are a part of can also be considerably more diverse... I feel like we have a lot of female players and I feel like we have, I think, a lot of diversity in the ethnicities and races'

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.146

0:00
Backbox Pinball co-presenters Lauren Gray and Rebecca Salem, take it away. Thanks so much. Thank you everybody for being here this morning. There was lots of partying starting yesterday, so we appreciate you being here this early. Yes. Thank you. We're awake. We are presented by coffee and carbs.
0:37
But thank you so much to David and the wonderful people at Fantastic New England. We were invited to come and speak to y'all about podcasting, and we were really stoked about it. We got really excited. We did. We felt extra special. Literally, we planned minimal things. We just got invited. We got invited. are these your arrangements? And we're like, we're going to show up and see what happens. We'll be there. And, of course, we wear our sparkle jackets everywhere. You can't see it off. We had our sparkle hats as well. We wore those to TPF because we like sparkle. We're just a little extra. Just a little bit. So, you know, are we presenting?
1:15
There we go. Yay. All right. So building a podcast in your community. We're going to talk about what we do as podcasters, but also podcasting as a whole, because you can really kind of wedge in whatever your thing is. You're probably here because you like pinball, but if you have something else that you're interested in, this can apply to that too. As David said, we're the hosts of the Backbox Pinball Podcast. We started the podcast back in 2019. I was solo, and then I got my amazing co-host in 2021. It's almost our anniversary. I know. What's the first year's paper, right? I don't know. I'm going to have to get you something special. Don't worry. We can make posters. We're going to make posters. Yay. We can make posters. but we really enjoy what we do. A little bit about us. As I said, I started the podcast. I do have an audio-radio background. I did radio for about six years. I missed it. I thought I should start a podcast like every other person in the world. I was like, I should start a podcast about what I'm into. So I started the Backbox Pimple podcast. As I said, I bought on Rebecca. It's something that we really enjoy. I'm from San Antonio, Texas, which is, oh, God, it's so hot here. it's a wonderful place it's in south central texas very far from the new england area uh rebecca i am from austin it's like an hour and a half slash 90 miles um north of san antonio and i got my start well we started getting into pinball and i played in women's leagues lauren was one of the first people that i got to meet and got to know so jumping onto the podcast with has been really fun and I sang a song and then I won because she did a contest because she bought the level of extraness that I live every day she said I was like girl wrote me an original song it's not an original it was from the little mermaid but you put your own lyrics to it like somebody wrote me a song I was like no dude has ever wrote me a song so you got extra special points so I'm just saying thank you yeah so all right that's who we are in a snapshot Podcasting 101, what this seminar is not. If you ask five podcasters, if you get us all in a room, we are going to have five different answers to the kind of gear that we use, the kind of platforms we use, how we do our podcast. I love that stuff. I could talk all day about gear and platforms and mics. Rebecca doesn't dig it. That's not her, that's not her thing. But we wanted to let you You know, if you have those questions, come find me after the seminar or email us. Also, don't go there right now. But if you go to our website after this weekend, we're going to have a podcasting 101 link that you can click on. If you want to find out the gear that we do use, the platforms and things like that. That could be its own separate thing. Like that could be its own separate seminar. It's just talking about podcasting gear. So we're not going to talk about that here. But if you have questions, feel free to reach out.
@ 27:12

  • “You need to be able to put your head on the pillow, and I'm like, I took that man's check, and I feel good about it.”

    Lauren Gray@ 24:37 — Emphasizes ethical standards for sponsor selection despite financial pressures

  • “We tackle tough issues that maybe other podcasts don't want to do, and that's okay.”

    Lauren Gray@ 18:33 — Identifies willingness to address difficult topics (mental health, trauma, neurodiversity) as differentiator

  • “It's not a show about women in pinball. It's a show about people in pinball. Like they just want to hear good storytelling.”

    Lauren Gray@ 18:11 — Reflects on how their mission evolved and broader appeal of quality storytelling transcends demographic targeting

  • “When you're thinking about, when you're starting, it's going back to the why and for us, why, um, you know, we wanted to tell the stories of women and our friends in pinball.”

    Rebecca Salem@ 23:12 — Articulates core mission as foundation for content decisions and ethical stances

    • District Coloring Knives
    company
    Patreonproduct
    Julie Dorsersperson
    Jordanperson
    Tee'd Offperson
    ?

    design_philosophy: Backbox Podcast intentionally addresses difficult and taboo topics (mental health, sexual trauma, neurodiversity) that mainstream pinball media avoids, as core differentiator

    high · Rebecca: 'We've had episodes dealing about mental health. We've had episodes dealing about sexual trauma... there's a place for the hard stuff, and it's something where I'm very comfortable with having tough, awful conversations'

  • $

    market_signal: Professional podcast editing services command significant cost but provide measurable return in production quality and host sustainability; outsourcing editing allowed hosts to focus on content

    high · Lauren: 'We decided to hire an editor, and that has made a world of difference for us doing our show. It's not cheap. There's a reason why they're kind of expensive. But for us, we wanted to focus on content'

  • ?

    community_signal: Lauren Gray transitioned from solo radio/podcast work to co-hosted format with Rebecca Salem, marking strategic partnership to expand content and mission reach

    high · Lauren: 'I started the podcast back in 2019. I was solo, and then I added my amazing co-host in 2021... I call it Backbox 2.0 when Rebecca came on a year ago'

  • ?

    product_concern: Podcast editing is identified as the primary failure point for aspiring podcasters; time-consuming, difficult work that causes shows to go dormant if not properly managed

    high · Lauren: 'Editing sucks. It's awful. It is very time-consuming... that is the reason why podcasts fail or podcasts go dark. Editing is really, really hard'

    • 4:10
    And that's a shot of us, by the way. Our friend Julie Dorsers, she's so sweet. And the platform we use, it takes snapshots of us, and we just had so much fun with that. Oh, my gosh. It was amazing. Yeah, I love Julie. She's so sweet. All right. So you want to start a podcast. Do you want to start a podcast?
    4:30
    We've been singing Frozen, and then we also followed up with Let It Go. That's for a different slide. Yeah, that's for a very different slide.
    4:38
    Why do you want to start a podcast? Are you bored? You really want to talk about what you're into? You really need to know your why, because that why is going to drive you after about six months and you're editing and you're trying to find guests and you're doing all these things like, why did I do this? So your why needs to be really, really important. It should be something that really drives you, but you should have a why. It could be, I want to share something about my hobby. I want to share something about myself uh for for me when i started the podcast i wanted to tell the stories of women particularly in the pinball hobby now we expand that because our tagline is a podcast for lady pinballers and their friends so we have we have guys on the show although we do get dubbed the lady podcast which i'm like it's fine uh but we we do like to have that that's kind of our mission and our drive is to highlight women and people who identify as women in the hobby.
    5:34
    Who's your listener? They will ask you this. It's like kind of a sales thing almost. Like, in your mind, who would be your ideal listener? Like, what would your listener look like? What would your listener be into? You know, for us, our listener, I was like, she's a mid-30s woman who likes pinball. I was like, that was our ideal listener. but literally like any warm body yeah like i'll take anybody we had people listening to us in like what pakistan yeah i have no idea who they are we are the number one games uh hobby show in pakistan like three months ago and i'm like i i like i like wanted to do a call like to the people listening to us in pakistan please write us if you can i will use google translate to i just want to find out more about you. We also are really like scoring high in the Czech Republic. I don't, I'm assuming it's some kind of VPN thing, but who knows? We could have a, like a hotbed of like fans in the Czech Republic and Pakistan. Like if you can get into metrics all day, that's another slide. But, but just imagine who you're talking to, because when you're doing a podcast or you're doing audio, you want to have a conversation with somebody and you need to imagine what that person is that you're reaching out to. So that's kind of when I think, when I ask, you know, who's your listener, imagine who that person listening to is. And I look at it as I'm talking to the girls I play pinball with, you know, I talked to my fellow bells and chimes members, like if we're sitting around a table just chatting, that's kind of in my mind how that works for me. What do you bring that's unique to the community? And I think that's really important. It's kind of going back to the why, like what makes your podcast different? There's so many podcasts about video games, There's so many podcasts about pinball. There's a lot.
    7:24
    But it's great. But what makes yours stand out? Like how is yours different? Like I'm looking at Jeff Parsons over there, and he's one of the reasons why I started this podcast. But he highlighted players, and he highlighted competitive play in his podcast. We were on a panel, or I was on a panel last night with Dave O'Neill, and they talked about classic pinball. Like you have to have like a hook or what's your thing. Like there's pinball news. There's pinball history. there is competitive pinball there's like a fixing pinball like you know it's there's a million different podcasts so like doing a podcast that's unique and different is super duper important because I could listen to news podcasts backwards forwards left way like the news is the news and like I could get a bunch of different takes on the news but I want to listen to something that's different and unique I only have your people are only going to have so much time in a car or on a plane or if they're going to spend the time listening to you make it special and it's that moment i also want to say you and your friends are very interesting you are very interesting but maybe other people may not want to download your podcast if it's just you and your friends telling inside jokes for two hours you can do that you anybody can start a podcast it's fine but you may not get the listenership you were hoping for um so you need to make sure that you know who your listener is, but also, you know, what are you, what are you doing for them? If you just want to record you and your friends talking, I mean, that's fine, but I don't know how many downloads you might get. You know, if you do you, you live your best life. So, uh, how do you, how, how do I start a podcast? I don't know, Lauren. I joined your podcast. You did join. I literally joined and I was like, I need to, I like, what do I do? I just should need to show up right so the frequency and it will like i'm going to start a podcast the podcast will be every two weeks i will release it on fridays and that totally changed uh i released it when i could get to it uh when i could get to the editing we do try to strive for two episodes a month that's our goal ish um but for those of you who listen to our show you may have caught our last episode was like we hate May. May 2022 can go, you know, whatever. Because we had some personal challenges and our listeners are awesome and gave us a lot of grace. But sometimes life happens. And we'll talk about this in a later slide. But when you have sponsors and things you do are sometimes answerable to like, why don't I have content? And why am I not producing things? But in an ideal world, you should stick to a schedule. Like I want to push my podcast on X day, you know, every other week or once a month or whatever. It's strive for consistency. And especially that'll be beneficial if you do want to get sponsorships and ads and things like that. Which is another slide. Yeah, this is another slide. Editing. I will tell you, and anybody who has podcasted will tell you, that is the reason why podcasts fail or podcasts go dark. Editing sucks. It's awful. It is very time-consuming and it's and I am an audio nerd so I'm like I heard a breath no and I'm sitting there editing and it and sometimes you just have to to let it go like you have to just let that go um but I will tell you that is the hardest thing about podcasting besides maybe content but even then editing content because if it's something you love you can like think of all kinds of things to talk about uh editing we actually decided to hire an editor and that has made a world of difference for us doing our show. It's not cheap. There's a reason why they're kind of expensive. But for us, we wanted to focus on content and we were getting enough money and we're like, we can make this kind of work. We have an amazing editor, Hi Jen. She's great. I found her because she edited another podcast that I listen to, that's romance novels. If you're interested in romance novels, come talk to me. But it is the reason why podcasts fail. So set some realistic expectations for yourself.
    11:20
    It's just hard. Editing is really, really hard. And you want to produce a quality product. We talked about this on the panel yesterday. You know, like where do you draw the line? And you know, we don't want to sound overproduced, but that's your product. It's this thing you're presenting. You want it to sound as nice as you can, but sometimes you don't have time. Yeah. And then, especially when you're working with guests who have different technological setups, and then you find out that your software doesn't work on cell phones, which isn't an expectation that, I thought that we had to communicate, but we've done a couple of cell phone episodes, and we're like, no, this audio quality is poor Jen. We love you, Jen. Yeah. We're sorry. Now we have expectations. Yeah. So you got to but I will say if you going to go into podcasting learn how to edit and give yourself the grace I use that word again but to be okay with it may may may be coming at 95 not a hundred So he said it really great yesterday, which is start a podcast and then just don't listen to the first few episodes. Yeah, no, don't let's go. I can't listen to like the first 10 episodes. I loved all our guests and it was wonderful, but I hear like, you know, I was, I was baby, you know, baby steps and it was I'm like, no, it's so cringe. But now it's like a completely different set up. We're almost at 100 episodes at this point. So hearing the first five or 10, you're like, oh, no, I can't believe I did all that stuff. Part of me wants to put them in a time capsule and we'll just hide them over here. Or we can just bury them. Yeah, that's fine. Bury the time capsule.
    12:52
    Finding a format, it's different. Some people, God bless them, if they want to talk for an hour by themselves, it's hard. It's like playing tennis by yourself. Like, it's tough. So you'll see a lot of podcasters want to find a partner. But for me, when I found Rebecca, it was really important because you have to find somebody that matches your energy, that can work with your schedule, that, you know, you can sometimes, like, have arguments with and it'll be okay.
    13:20
    And, you know, finding a partner is hard. So people like to do it by themselves. But then you have to produce content for 30 minutes to an hour by yourself. And then some people then, well, I'll have guests. But that's a whole nother, you know, thing. The whole scheduling. I can only record on Mondays at 3.30 in the afternoon. I'm like, I have a job. I'm like, okay. So you have to kind of work with that. So guests are this weird, unknown thing that you have to work with. You work with their technology, their schedules. Sometimes guests are really excited to come on. All of our guests are amazing. But then they get there and they freak out. I'm like, it's just us. It's okay. And they're like, hello, I'm so-and-so. I'm really excited to be here. I know they're just nervous. So we really make a point of trying to make it conversational and fun. And I'm like, this isn't live. It's okay. We can get it in post. It's going to be fine. The threat level is very low. It's a pinball podcast. We're going to be okay. So creating that safe environment, but that's also, like, if you're going to do a guest-driven show, you have to deal with that. And I wanted to tell those stories, so I knew I was going to have that issue. it's just you know that's another thing as a podcast host that you're going to have to work with you know you're gonna have to work with these guests and make it work and they all want to be there they're just nervous and you have to deal with that sometimes and you never know what's going to come up so being able to handle everyone like empathetically and safely is also really important yeah I could some stuff pop up that we didn't I think expect to pop up like we've had some hard issues and some hard topics and sometimes it takes like you know and it's nice to have a conversational situation where you can kind of take a break and be like, okay, we can take a break, we can relax and move forward. So expect the unexpected whenever you're working with guests, whether that's background noise or, you know, unexpected stories or, you know, getting really sent off on a tangent, which is fun. And that's one of the reasons why I brought Rebecca on, because I was doing this by myself with a guest and having another host in there to help me make that guest feel more comfortable. Or if there's a tech issue, I can work that while she's talking to the guest. It's made it a lot easier. I call it Backbox 2.0 when Rebecca came on a year ago. It's been a lot of fun. But podcasting has its challenges. And you have to create a format that's going to work for you and for what you want to do as a storyteller.
    15:45
    What can you bring to your community? And there's a lot of different communities for us. So with the Backbox, it's the pinball community. But within that pinball community, Rebecca and I address a lot of issues that maybe involve women, involve people of color, just a lot of different things. I'll be honest. Our community, it's very white and very male. I'm just going to say it. I'm like, Lauren knows me. I'm like, it's a lot of white dudes. We love you all.
    16:16
    The community that, and every community is different. The community that Lauren and I are a part of can also be considerably more diverse. There is a like there is I feel like we have a lot of female players and I feel like we have, I think, a lot of diversity in, you know, the ethnicities and races of people that actually show up to our leagues. so when we were looking so that was one of the things that I really wanted to what I was so excited to do whenever I joined the podcast was to really showcase the diversity and the multi levels of talent that just isn't necessarily seen by the major pinball population our community is amazing and wonderful and wholesome it's just not necessarily seen as much and whether that's females and like women in the you know pinball workspace which has been awesome to get to see um you know and I come from a social work background so I deal with all of these issues from eight to five every day so I was really excited to get to bring that lens to pinball um and so getting to do our podcast around the community that we get to be a part of and like bring that to the light so that way other communities that are structured similarly get to see like oh yeah your community looks like this our community looks like this and we get to really showcase what that looks like to everybody, which has been really fun. It has been really fun, and Rebecca does have that lexicon, that vocabulary, to kind of tackle some of these issues that maybe I didn't. So Rebecca brings a lot to the table in that sense. But, you know, we went back to that ideal listener, you know, 30-something lady that plays pinball. I will tell you that our listenership is almost half men, and that blew my mind. I'm like, guys really like our show, and it's great. And a lot of the people who interacted with us are guys. And they're like, yeah, we love listening to all your stories. And they're like, oh, this makes me so happy. You know, because they kind of see beyond the, oh, it's not a show about women in pinball. It's a show about people in pinball. Like they just want to hear good storytelling. And really, like a podcast, that's what it's all about. You want to be able to present something that people are going to enjoy listening to, whatever that story may be. And, you know, Rebecca talked a little bit about what the community looks like and some of the things that we can address there. And we do tackle tough issues that maybe other podcasts don't want to do, and that's okay. I'm sorry. Spam. I lost my ID at the airport. That's been a joy.
    18:45
    If anybody has gone to the airport and has found Lauren's ID, that would be great. You could mail it to me here in Sturbridge. That would be great. But, you know, understanding what your community looks like and maybe ways you could highlight different parts of your community, and that's really important to us. and we want to make sure that we're creating spaces for everyone. And that's the thing. It's like, you know, people have this idea that, you know, pinball looks this certain way, and we're like, no, no. There are people out there that are different, that are unique, and we just want to highlight those people, and that's why we're here. And then as a podcaster, what are your strengths? Like, Rebecca and I, we're super chatty, and we're not afraid to have uncomfortable conversations. I can talk to a wall. Yeah. So when people listen to our show, we're a very conversational podcast. There are some people that are all about numbers and metrics and want to have something that's a little tighter, a little different. Rebecca and I are like, we just want you to hang out with us and chat with us. But know what your strengths are, especially for you in a podcast. For me, I'm the tech person for the show. I do more of the tech. Rebecca organizes the guests. She's kind of taking that over, and I do scheduling. We find out what our strengths are, and we play to those, especially if you have a partner. If you're doing this by yourself, you have to have all the strengths. But it's something you can work on. It's definitely there are challenges I've overcame as, you know, doing podcasting. Lauren, strength is email organization. Oh, my God. If you listen to the show, Rebecca, I put the emails in folders because that's what you do, because I'm not a monster. But Rebecca thought I deleted all the emails, and I'm like, no, I put them in folders. I thought you deleted things. Yeah, I put them in folders. They're on the left. See, look. Currently, her email notification says at 22,482 unread emails. It's horrifying, Rebecca. It's just horrifying. It's fine. I can't look at that right now. That is not her strength.
    20:37
    So kind of deep diving a little bit into, you know, this was supposed to be fun, y'all, when we have episodes that are, like, maybe not, like, so, like, what you would consider fun or, like, lighthearted. We've had episodes dealing about mental health. We've had episodes dealing about sexual trauma. we've had a lot of different topics that are they're they're no bueno that's not fun it's not a fun conversation but it's still an important conversation to have I feel like when you get to work into podcasting like I am all for the light-hearted happy podcast and that's great I love a happy podcast also if you look at my podcast history it's 90 true crime so that being said there's a place for the hard stuff and it's something where I'm very comfortable with having tough awful conversations I do that every day so getting to I don't love it I don't but I but I feel that it's been a great journey with you I remember we were record what episode are we recording and it was a hard I remember was a really hard one for you was it the Lyman episode it was the Lyman episode uh with um Sarah Rose Denise yeah that's the mental health episode that we did, we talked about suicide. And it was incredibly difficult for me because that's just not, I didn't grow up in that world where you talked about your feelings. I'm like, no, we don't talk about our feelings. And having Sarah Rose Denise there, she's a mental health professional. Having you there, it was interesting for me because I almost felt like the listener. Like, yes, I was talking, but you guys were really facilitating that. And having this platform, because we do have a decent listenership and we know that people, you know, download our stuff, we felt it was important that we tackle issues that are kind of tough. And that was a really that was a really hard episode. It was a hard episode, but the feedback that we ended up getting was actually really amazing. I had multiple people approaching me saying this was a really like tough listen, but I like I didn't understand why I felt terrible after this event when I didn't even know the guy. And going through all of those experiences with other people and realizing that, you know, they also probably came from a similar background where like you don't talk about this kind of stuff. And was it my favorite episode to record? No.
    22:56
    It was hard. it was not fun, but it was something that was worthwhile. So whether or not that's something that you want to incorporate into whatever you're doing as far as content creation, like that's up to you. Um, but I know that I think we thought it was valuable and we wanted to include it in what we were doing. Yeah. So when you're thinking about when you're starting, it's going back to the why and for us, why, um, you know, we wanted to tell the stories of, of, of women and our friends in pinball. And that was a story and it had to be told. And a lot of people weren't tackling it because it's tough it's like it's neurodiversity man yeah it's a thing it's a thing i should have taken my meds today well not yet it's fine you can't take adderall with coffee it ends really poorly you get real jittery so that's like a two o'clock activity two o'clock so yeah all right uh ethics and listener support uh give us money like please support us you know because i would love to make my living being a pinball podcaster but let me just break that down for you you cannot survive on this I mean it's a side hobby it's a it's a hustle but I can't pay my mortgage you know what the housing markets are doing there's no way it's pretty cheap but oh no but we do have sponsors we have two sponsors one pays us the merchandise one pays us in money and then we also have supporters through patreon but you have to have a line in the sand there needs to be you have to know what your ethics are I not going to tell you how to live your life but you know the point where you like I don feel good about this Like that line like don feel good about this I don't want to take money from this person. I don't like what this person represents. I don't like who this person hangs with. You need to be able to put your head on the pillow, and I'm like, I took that man's check, and I feel good about it. But sometimes we've been approached by people that have, and I'm like, no thanks. like you know that you do you uh but that's just not gonna it doesn't jive with our message yeah like it's not but you know there's lots of other podcasts that will take your money um you know i had to turn down a cbd uh advertiser who wanted to advertise with us i'm like cool cool um but that's not legal here in texas also like my job and i was like i can't but you know you do you man i'm like that's awesome like i was like thanks for thinking of us but uh come back in like 20 years yeah exactly after I've retired I'm like I'll be your kid uh as in sponsorships uh again you know feeling good about who your sponsors are going to be having to work that in we do our own sponsorships district coloring knives knives knives um knives they like us yeah people are like knives and like okay it's it's not like really like a connection because usually your pinball there's a story what's great about the knife sponsorship is it's a story it's a listener who liked us so much that he wanted to sponsor us. And like half of his employees play pinball, and they've got an Iron Man in their shop. And he was like, we'll give you money for your podcast. And we're like, okay, well, you seem cool. You like pinball. And so like when you can find a sponsor that like jives with you, like it's perfect. Right. It just happens to be knives. That's what they sell. And I got to ship my knife off. Our listeners get like 25% off sharpening services, which is really nice. I feel like we're breaking into an ad right now. I know, right? I'm really sorry this has turned into an ad for district coloring. We digress. But one thing I do want to address is Patreon and paywalls. We have Patreon sponsors. We have, like, a $5 level, and we just introduced the chartreuse board level, which is $25 a month.
    26:28
    If you want to go behind a paywall, and the idea of a paywall is essentially people pay for your content. They would pay, you know, $30 a month or $5 a week or however you sort it out, and then they would get a special link to your content and they can go and listen to your content because they've paid for it. I have feelings about that. Maybe it's because I came from a radio background, but also I want our message to get out. So I feel like if I put it behind a paywall that I'm not going to be able to reach all the people I want to reach. But if you have a... Especially if your people in the population you're trying to reach are limited on income. Yeah, it's... Or spent a bunch of money on a pinball machine. Yeah, I just bought this thing. Like we get it. It's very expensive. it's an expensive hobby upon reflection i may have tried to find a cheaper hobby but i love it i'm here but it's the idea that um i want our content to be available to everybody for free and if you like it so much and have extra money that you want to give us we'll take it we'll take it so because running a podcast is not cheap you have to think about all the things you need you need software you need internet um we pay the editor that's a whole separate thing we have to pay to have our content up on a server. We pay for a website. Like, there's all these things that add up. And there are cheap ways to do it. There are very cheap ways, but, you know. You have to get a really nice microphone. Yeah. Or you get Jordan to decide to start a podcast, and then he gives you the microphone that he doesn't use. I was really excited about Jordan starting a podcast, and he upgraded Rebecca's mic life, which made me, the audio person, really happy. I'm like, this is so beautiful. You sound so nice. But, again, paywalls, I have feelings about them. But it's something for you to think about if you want to start a podcast. We have mutual feelings about that. And we agree on our perspective on paywalls, which is important in finding a co-host. Yeah. But if you're starting a podcast, it's something to think about. But if you throw up the paywall at the beginning, how are people going to find your podcast? Just marinate on that. Just think about it.
    28:32
    Listener feedback. Love it. so much. Actually, it's, I would say 95% awesome. Like our listeners, I had somebody I met, Tommy, I don't know if he's here, but he came up to me last night. He's like, I really like your show. And thank you so much for coming out to New England. It's so nice. Here's a koozie. You know, it's, we love meeting our listeners. Is that the picture of me with a biscuit? Yes. So in this picture, I love this picture so much because Elizabeth Dronay, who is kind of like the queen of Lady Pinball in Texas. She runs all of the women's events in Texas. She's amazing. And she was kind of yelling at us at the women's event at TPF. And Rebecca almost missed it because she wanted that biscuit. And I'm literally yelling at her on the phone. I was like, you need to be here now. Where are you? And she's like, I'm hungry. I was awake until 3 o'clock in the morning. I came in fit in that women's tournament by the way. I was thrilled. It was amazing. So back to feedback. You're going to get it. People are not shy and keyboard warriors are not shy about telling you how they feel, especially if they don't like something that you say or something that you do. It's a bummer.
    29:44
    I like my hate out on the front porch. I'm like, tell me who you are. But it's worse when they hide behind fake emails with no pictures and just spew all this venom. And I'm like, why do you got to be like that? I'm like, I'm sorry that your life is so hateful.
    30:00
    I'm like, you need a hug more than anything. But you're going to get listener feedback. Most of it's awesome. But there's going to be some that's not going to make you feel really good.
    30:10
    Taking the moment to think about it. Like, don't immediately start keyboard-warrioring back. You're going to get feedback. There is some feedback that is negative that you will get to learn from. Like, I remember learning, I think, that I was using inappropriate terminology, I think, in a spreadsheet. and I was like, you know what? I didn't realize that this is not how a community says this. I will take that into consideration. Like, I will take that and I will change how I'm doing things. And change is hard. And it made me upset. And I talked to Lauren about it. And it took me like a week to recover from that feedback. But it was good feedback. And people, you know, when you get good feedback, that's not just spewing venom and spewing hatred. Like, if people are going to take the time to give that to you, take the moment to like look at yourself recognize if you've got any biases or you know where you're feeling hurt or if it's like that I am a perfectionist and you told me my audio quality is garbage but I know it's not and then you listen to it and you're like oh I hear the cat walking across the keyboard I will make sure to close the door next time um you know but taking that feedback accepting it cooling down not keyboard wariering not turning it into something that you're going to spew about on your next podcast, like, and recognizing that change that you need to make. Yeah. That's, that's turning the feedback into action. Like, how can we make this actionable? And sometimes somebody's just like, I don't like you. And I'm like, well, I don't like you either. You don't write that back, but you can say that to the email or to the message that you get. I'm like, I don't like you either, but I'm like, if you don't like me, stop listening to the show. But yeah, whatever. It's, it's just hard. You know, we're, we're all people. We all have feelings. We all have you know little souls that don't want to be crushed and you're like and it's your podcast is your baby i'm like what do you mean my baby's ugly i'm like why are you saying that horrible thing about my baby um lauren you know some babies do look really weird right no all babies are beautiful all babies are beautiful they look like really old i can't even which is beautiful in its own right but it's sometimes they look like little weird aliens anyway all babies are beautiful people are going to say not nice things sometimes don't write back immediately if there's stuff that's actionable within their feedback, you know, take a time, take some time to listen and, you know, maybe, you know, act on that feedback. Don't take it personally. Like, it's hard not to, but don't take it personally. Somebody's just having a bad day. But sometimes I save the extra spicy ones. I'm like, I'm gonna put that in a special folder over here. And if you send me another spicy email, I just may block you. But, you know, just try to take the feedback. Yeah, I'm like, look, this person super hates me. But, you know, listener feedback is important. Whether you get that feedback through your website, whether you get that feedback through social media, it's tough, but sometimes it's really quality stuff.
    32:59
    And speaking of social media, people, like, I'm going to make a podcast that I'm not going to talk about, that I'm not going to advertise, that I'm not going to tell anyone about. And I'm like, who's going to listen to it except your mom?
    33:13
    My mom is cool, Lauren. Your mom is awesome. But you have to, if you're going to do podcasting, you have to get on social media. You don't have to do a lot of it, but you need to advertise and put yourself out there somewhere. For us, we were on Facebook for a while. We are strictly now on Instagram, and we repost on Twitter. But Instagram's kind of where we sit because we're both picture takers. We like the imagery of it. It's a lot of fun. We've had a lot of engagement. But you have to do social media. I have feelings about social media. It can be a cesspool, quite honestly, but also it's a needed evil if you're going to be doing content creation. You have to have it. You don't have to go whole hog and then make a Pinside account and go nuts. And, like, I was thinking about it the other day, and I was like, to Pinside or not to Pinside, Lauren? It's tough. Because I feel like I don't even have a Pinside account, you guys. I'm a terrible, terrible person. I lurk on the forums. I don't have a Pinside account. And Jordan does all the pinball buying, so not all of it. But he handles that. You know, but you have to go and engage our listeners. I love, like, you know, hashtagging and all those things. But the people that follow us on social media, like, they knew the whole entire email debacle.
    34:22
    They know, like, I have a preference for waffle fries. And so now I get pictures of waffle fries from places because I feel the waffle fry is the best fry. We found out how many unread emails Colin McAlpine has. Yeah, Colin McAlpine reached out and he's like, I have, like. It's, like, over 100,000. Yeah, I was like, Colin, you're a monster. How can you do this so well and then have this? I don't even know you. So this is your task to sign Colin McAlpine up for cat facts to just add more and make me feel better about my 22,000 emails. But it's your listeners, and it's funny because you share so much of what you do and what you're interested in and your hobby and yourselves, and particularly for Rebecca and I because it is a very conversational podcast that we do.
    35:02
    People come up to us and tell me facts. I'm like, how do you know that about me? Who are you? I was like, are you a stranger, stranger danger? and then I realize, oh, they're a fan of the show and then we talk and have a good time and I'm like, oh, okay, don't make it weird. You're going to meet fans and strangers are going to approach you and they're going to be nervous. Like that guy yesterday, Tommy, he was a little nervous. But you have to make it cool for them. This is like, I hate saying this out loud because it makes me sound weird, but they feel like they're meeting a celebrity. I am the least celebrity person you will ever meet in your life. Says the girl covered in sparkles. This is true. Fair, that is a fair assessment. I just like sparkles. You can't see it, but my shoes are also covered in sparkles. But it's for them. It's a big thing. They're like, this is this person I listen to, and they're like a part of my life, and I know all the stuff about them. Just don't make it weird. Don't, like, for the listener and also for you, it's like, you know, this is a moment for them. And take a picture. I always hand out swag. Like, we love swag. So, you know, I'm like, here, have some stickers or a thing. Yeah, there's some koozies and stickers, like, right over there. Yeah, we do have some for our folks that are here today. We have free stuff. I know. I see koozies in the back. Oh, nice. Yes, they already started. I love it. Pick up a koozie. And if we run out, just let us know. But making it fun, your listeners are your family. It's an extension of your family. They feel a part of you and of the show and a little bit of ownership. So just make it fun for them. Make it a moment. And, you know, we try to take pictures and we'll put them online. And sometimes listeners turn into guests. It's true. I got approached by Sammy Bacon at Expo and she was super excited and she showed me the earrings that she had won from you and then lo and behold like we had her on as a guest like what a month ago yeah about a month ago we recorded a show with her and uh she was so much fun and that it was a she and I had met at a Battle of the Bells thing and I was like oh here's a back box prize pack and and she's like you know wore the earrings and all the stuff and I was like you're so awesome and she's like we should have her on the show we should so it can happen so listeners you could come up to us and if you You know, we think you're cool. You could, like, come on the show. I'm pretty sure we think you're cool, though. Yeah, you're already cool, but, you know. Because you listen to us, so therefore you're already cool.
    37:07
    So kind of wrapping up what we've been talking about, finding your why. Why do you want to be in podcasting? Why do you want to do this to yourself? Like, and take away what little free time you have to produce this content for pinball lovers or for whatever hobby or community that you're a part of. Building your community. Meet people in real life. And for Rebecca, Rebecca's very big on traveling to shows. For me, it's more of a challenge because of my work and the way my life is structured. But I'm trying to get out there a little more. But for me, I'm much more engaged on Instagram and the social media and things like that. On the note of traveling, thank you, Valli, for taking care of the cats. I don't know if you're watching this, who I met through pinball.
    37:50
    Your cats are there. I know. My amazing friend Valli is watching our cats in our house while we're gone. she actually reached out and she was like, so when are you going to Pentastic? And I'm like, why? And she's like can I come watch the cats and play pinball? And I'm like yes, yes you can So you can meet cat sitters along with other cool people. Valley's awesome though Change is okay your podcast, it grows it morphs, it can become something different and that's okay it's okay, change is I don't want to say change is good because sometimes change sucks, but change is okay, you have to embrace that Like for me, my show went from me and a guest to me and Rebecca and a guest. So it can change, and that's all right. Don't be afraid of the hard things. Don't be afraid of having the tough conversations or kind of dealing with stuff that's not fun because, you know, we're grown-ups. Got our big girl panties on today. You've got to deal with the hard stuff. It's tough, and it's not always fun, but you have to do it. And engagement, engagement, engagement, engagement. You know, talking to people in person, talking to people online, talking to people on social media. engaging because you never know where you're going to find a new listener. We try to, you know, go across, you know, we'll talk to women in gaming. We'll talk to women who do console gaming. We go to like different events and, you know, I'll meet people. I'm like, here's my card. I do a podcast. Listen, it's fun. I promise. Even if you don't know a lot about pinball, we talk about things besides pinball on our show. But engaging your listeners, however, however that is for you or whatever that looks like for you, is a huge part of being a podcaster. And I know this is like a not traditional how to do a podcast seminar, and we didn't wanna do that, you need this microphone, and you need this and that. We wanted to kind of talk about the big lie. We didn't wanna be your Google. Yeah, you can Google all that. I promise you, there's like tons of pages and websites and YouTube channels that talk about the tech part of it and the how part of it, but we wanted you to engage with your why. So please. the soul of your podcast. Yeah, go. What's the soul of your podcast? Oh, man. Oh, that would have been a good title. Yeah. Ah, reflecting. Dang it. All right. Is it as good as my tamales of the Northeast comment? Oh, my God. Also, two things. One, I'm looking for a really good lobster roll. I'm, like, very excited about that. Two, I also need a ride back to Boston on Sunday. You and me both, girl. Yeah. But we want to thank, again, Dave and Derek and Nancy and all the amazing people here at Pintastic New England for inviting us up here. We were so excited to be here. If you have questions about podcasting, I love answering that stuff. You can visit our website, backboxpinballpodcast.com. Our email is backboxpinballpodcast at gmail.com. But we also want to say thanks to our peeps, District Cutlery, Forever the Flip, and Patreon. We were like, we're going to make it slide. It's fine. But thank you so much to them as well. But thank you for everybody for being here today. Thank you for those of you listening out in internet land. So we really appreciate it. And we've got some time, I think. Yeah, we can take questions at this microphone up here, our audience question microphone. You can just ask us questions, whatever you want. It can even not be about pinball or podcasting. We're like a little talk about a cat. Yeah.
    41:01
    Since you talked about not being on pin side, Rebecca, the only way I'm discovering pinball podcasts, which is more than I can listen to, just by checking the podcast channel on Pinside and seeing announcements of podcasts. So I might be missing some episodes from you if you're not posting them. You know, I think that exploring, looking to Pinside, and making something on Pinside is something that we could look at. It also comes down to, I think, the amount of time and commitment. Again, it comes down to that feedback and that vitriol that sometimes you can get. vitriol aside for the moment what is the if i just uh am a hardcore pinballer so what i'm doing online is in the world of pinball online like pin side uh how am i going to discover your podcast what are you doing well we didn't we didn't talk about the tech part of it but this would be in that conversation um if you go to anywhere where you can listen to podcasts because that's where we're at, Spotify, Apple, you know, podcast, whatever. There's like 12 of them. There's like a million of them. Whatever podcatcher you use, if you type pinball, you'll find us. If you type backbox pinball, we'll be the only thing that pops up. But all you have to do is type in pinball. If you are putting together a podcast, it's really important to make sure that your podcast is available on all of the different platforms. Apple is our, over half of our listeners come from Apple. um we do have a like people use spotify um amazon like uh google there's a there's a bunch of just search podcasts and if you know us just put in backbox pinball podcast and you'll find us sure once i once i've discovered you then i can track you but yes um actually my preferred mode is just downloading the mp3 so there are certain podcasts i would listen to a lot more if they would make them available for download, which a lot of them don't. Yeah, if you can actually listen to our episodes on our website, you can just go to our website and play it from there. Our content is mostly not downloadable just because of the way it's structured on our server. But yeah, you can just go to our website and click and listen to our episodes that way. If you don't want to use a podcatcher, you can do that too. Yeah. So what I'm saying is I'm not looking to listen to podcasts as my agenda and say, what podcast could I listen to? Going to Spotify or something and say, what podcast exists about pinball? I'm starting from the pinball side. Yeah. What can I do in the pinball hobby to have more media inputs? You know, like I chased down all those zines back in the 90s. Yeah. So what do I do now? Well, I'm starting from the pinball side of it. No, I understand like the foot in the door, like this is your foot into the door to the podcasting thing, like the podcasting like the chicken and the egg thing it's like what came first the pinball or the podcasting and for you it's coming in from that pinball side of things and then meeting that podcast need no i appreciate that thank you yeah any other gonna come to the microphone if you have a question because we're recording it or yell really loud no no no we're recording we're recording we're gonna play it back on youtube later thank you for walking down here We appreciate that. That's why I don't do the AV stuff. Like, just yell, it's fine. And then I'm like, they're not going to hear you if you yell, and they're trying to record it. So it's a journey. It's a process. What's the basic lowest cost to get into a project?
    44:42
    Zero. You can spend. You're sponsored, so I didn't know. Yeah, so it just depends on what you want it to look like. You can use earbuds that have a mic. you can use your phone and you can use a platform like anchor anchor is free um anchor has their own spots put in it um it depends on how much you want to spend like i'm a nerd and i like love like tech so i spent a lot of money um you know buying things and doing things but honestly and this is the and it's funny i didn't put this in here but this is the advice i always give to people who ask me about wanting to start podcasts the hardest thing about starting a podcast is starting the podcast because you want it to be perfect. You want it to like be this perfect thing that you're starting. The hardest thing is making that first episode. And I'll tell this story real quick. Heather Smith, who is the owner of Titan Pinball down in Dallas, they do amazing bands and rubbers for your pinball machines. I had been wanting to do a podcast for like six months. And then I was at an event and I met her and I said, I was like, you should be a guest on my podcast. And literally in my mind, it's like, what are you doing you don't have a podcast and I'm like you should be on my show I'll reach out to you and I'll email you and then I'm like oh my god I have to do a podcast now like for real I said it out loud I made it I you know I put the intention out there um but just getting started um but again you can if you get started and then you're like well okay I really like this it's kind of like when you start any hobby like when we start pinball I really like this I went to this pinball thing and it was cool uh you know maybe I'll go to a couple more usually you don't start out buying. Yeah, you don't start out, I'm going to buy the Jersey Jack LE pinball machine, you know, and spend like a small fortune. Like most people don't start at the hobby there. They kind of slow roll into it, but zero, zero is the answer. And then once you get started, you know, you can add and, you know, do different platforms and things like that. And if you have questions, you know, feel free to email me, but for everybody out there, it's zero. You just have to have content and a desire to do it and getting started. So when you have 10 people listening or you've got 10,000, it's the same cost? Yes. Now, the bigger, more people you get, you do run into things, you know, bandwidth and things like that. And sometimes that's when you like go to servers, but it doesn't matter whether you have zero or 10,000 listeners. You can spend nothing on making a podcast. If you have great content, you know, the listeners, if you build it, they will come. But if you build it, they will listen. They will listen. So I, you know, I think it's a disadvantage sometimes when I talk because I'm like, you know, I'm like, I needed a mic and I needed a laptop and I needed this and I needed that. I was like, no, you could do this. And a great example of that, and I talked about her last night, is Mrs. Pin. She is so much fun. Sarah Line is one of, like, the most genuine people I have ever had the fortune to meet. And she does a fun podcast and she records it on her iPhone. That's it. She's like just her and her iPhone. And like one of the first episodes is her watching a video of Jack Danger eating a hot dog. It's like the funniest thing, but that she just didn't. She just recorded it on her iPhone. And it's not we did that in Houston. And that's what we're doing here is we brought we didn't bring any. Well, Lauren brought a bunch of fancy equipment, but we didn't bring like our podcasting equipment because you can get away with using an audio recorder on your phone. And that's what we did in Houston is we gathered tons and tons of interviews, stitched it all together, and it sounded great. Like, it sounded really great, and it was super fun. And, you know, I know I think that's what Jeff Teolis was doing at Expo. He was just running around with a phone and just, like, sticking it in people's faces. Like, you can do that, and it's fine.
    48:29
    You can totally do that. Last call for questions? Okay, thanks very much. Thank you.