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Not Salty About Peanuts

BlahCade Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 14m·held·Nov 13, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

BlahCade reviews Zen's new Snoopy Pinball Party and $9K Skillshot Effects virtual cab partnership.

Summary

BlahCade hosts Chris Friebus and Jared Morgan discuss Chris's recovery from voice strain, a visit to a Gottlieb restoration specialist's workshop, Zen Pinball's new Snoopy table and partnership with Skillshot Effects for a $9,000 virtual pinball cabinet, and gameplay impressions of the Snoopy title. Key concerns about the Skillshot cabinet include missing physical plunger and accelerometer tilt functionality despite high price point.

Key Claims

  • Snoopy on Zen Pinball Party is the best new table produced so far in the Animated Heroes collection

    high confidence · Chris Friebus, episode host, stated this as his opinion after gameplay

  • Skillshot Effects cabinet lacks physical plunger and accelerometer tilt functionality at $9,000 price point

    high confidence · Chris and Jared identified these missing features during cabinet review; they called it 'unacceptable' for the price

  • Banning Collection second auction earned $6 million, below their $7 million target

    medium confidence · Jared cited Vice story about auction prices and totals

  • Skillshot Effects cab comes with 96 FX3 pinball games pre-loaded

    medium confidence · Chris noted package listing '96 different pinball games' with Jurassic Park tables addable separately

  • Snoopy table's kite-eating tree obstruction is a design flaw that blocks visibility of playfield elements

    high confidence · Chris and Jared criticized tree element for covering upper playfield lanes and making skill shots harder to execute

Notable Quotes

  • “For $9,000, we can't get a physical plunger? Yeah, we can't get a physical plunger, and we can't get accelerometer tilt. That is just unacceptable.”

    Chris Friebus @ ~1:06:00 — Articulates the central complaint about the Skillshot cabinet's feature gaps relative to price point and competitor offerings

  • “I'm calling it the best of these new tables that has been produced so far.”

    Chris Friebus @ ~26:00 — Sets strong positive expectation for Snoopy table before live gameplay demo

  • “It ejects the ball without any flashing light or sound... That's design 101 when it comes to pinball. Seek out the Red Baron and bring him down. You shouldn't be surprised.”

    Jared Morgan @ ~43:00 — Identifies missing feedback on ball ejection as basic design error in Snoopy table

  • “Multiplayer raised! Not Multiplier, Multiplayer... That needs to be re-recorded.”

    Chris Friebus @ ~52:00 — Notes voice-over error in Snoopy where 'Multiplier' is mispronounced as 'Multiplayer,' affecting clarity

  • “If you have a design element like that, it needs to be visible at all angles... it looks good thematically but if it obstructs a playfield like an actual gameplay element then for my money it's not good.”

    Chris Friebus @ ~48:00 — Establishes principle that theme elements must not compromise playfield visibility and gameplay clarity

Entities

Chris FriebuspersonJared MorganpersonJohn GristpersonDolbypersonZen StudioscompanySkillshot EffectscompanySnoopy on Zen Pinball PartygameSkillshot Effects CabinetproductBanning CollectioneventBlahCade Pinball Podcast

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Zen Studios released Snoopy on Zen Pinball Party, described as best new table in Animated Heroes collection with improved layout, rule set balance, and call-out guidance over previous entries

    high · Chris: 'Spoiler alert, I'm calling it the best of these new tables that has been produced so far' and 'the layout and the actual play and kind of the basic rule set, it's better than what the other ones have been'

  • ?

    product_launch: Zen Studios partnered with Skillshot Effects to create licensed FX3 virtual pinball cabinet at $9,000 price point; cabinet features 52-inch playfield monitor, custom interface, and pre-loaded 96-game library

    high · Chris: 'Zen announced a new partnership with a virtual pinball cab maker, and that is Skillshot Effects... they have gone in licensed uh with FX3'

  • ?

    product_concern: Skillshot cabinet lacks physical manual plunger and accelerometer-based tilt functionality; hosts identified this as major design flaw for $9,000 price point competitive with new Stern machines

    high · Chris: 'for $9,000, we can't get a physical plunger? Yeah, we can't get a physical plunger, and we can't get accelerometer tilt. That is just unacceptable'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Skillshot cabinet features plinth-based design with 52-inch monitor, integrated control interface in lockdown bar, LED light strip underneath, and rakeable playfield to match company's skee-ball product line aesthetic

    high · Chris noted 'nice modern flair to it in terms of cab design... it's on a plinth' and 'they've integrated that into the lockdown bar not as a panel'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.222

0:00
blockade pinball podcast this is the blockade pinball podcast i'm your host chris freebus aka shut your trap joining me as always halfway across the world it's jared morgan hello everyone how you going uh doing much better now so uh we we didn't do a show two weeks ago um as you know we're kind of on this every two weeks schedule for the most part now uh because my voice was gone oh gone right yeah this is what happens when you uh you know you go back to the amusement park and you're having to talk for eight hours a day with a projected voice and uh yeah used to projecting over the crowds like that that will do it yes um it's it's surprising if i've had a busy meeting day like if i've been on video calls and stuff all day um i'm finding at the end of the day my voice is my throat's really sore and i just don't want to speak anymore yeah the the interesting part is i'm still like dealing with the effects i mean i've had my voice back now for a week and a math easy um but like my basically my tongue is what feels like it's sore it's like and it feels like it feels like you know like weight lifting sore you know what i mean your tongue is being like lifting 50 exactly that's what it feels like it's like it's not painful but it's like wow it's just doesn't feel flexible i'm feeling the burn but it's funny because like you know we you know when you're sort of locked away at home you don't really have to get out there and talk to people like talking is it's highly overrated well and there's a certain uh
2:06
a certain manner of talking that i wind up doing where it is again i'm very much projecting my voice but it's also being that you laugh at everything and you're you know just being extra with how you're speaking and you're speaking just non-stop that i don't know that there's any way of really preparing for that i think it's you just got to be match fit really and it will be hard It would be really hard to essentially act for that long. Right, right. I mean, I'm sure theater people go through it all the time. Oh, yeah, for sure. And this exact same thing happened to me the last time when I first started at the theme park. So, it's part of the course. You'll be right. You'll build up your strength again in your time. Exactly. Now, if I could just build up the strength of the jokes that I used to have. oh well have you lost your game no i mean there's there's certain banter that's came back rather easily but uh there were certain jokes and situations that like come up enough that you just had a quick one always at the ready and i'm having to relearn what those quick ones are so you actually like throw out a bit of a dad joke here and there to make them really smile genuinely. Pretty much.
organization
Zen Pinball Partygame
FX3product
Apple Arcadeorganization
VB Cabscompany
AtGamescompany

gameplay_signal: Snoopy table presents difficulty challenges including hard-to-execute upper-left flipper shots, frequent drains, and obstructed visibility of playfield elements due to kite-eating tree design element

high · Jared: 'it's not as easy as the other ones'; Chris: 'a lot of drains. It's not super easy' and 'the kite-eating tree is obstructing the lights'

  • ?

    product_concern: Snoopy table contains voice-over mispronunciation where 'Multiplier' is recorded as 'Multiplayer,' requiring re-recording for clarity

    high · Chris: 'It actually says Multiplayer... That needs to be re-recorded. Because you will hear it. If I've heard it, you'll hear it multiple times'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Chris articulated core principle that thematic design elements must not obstruct critical playfield visibility; referenced Williams table solutions like mirrors to work around obstructions

    high · Chris: 'if you have a design element like that, it needs to be visible at all angles... looks good thematically but if it obstructs a playfield like an actual gameplay element then for my money it's not good'

  • $

    market_signal: Skillshot cabinet priced at $9,000—equivalent to new Stern machine—but hosts question value proposition given missing features compared to competitors at lower price points

    high · Chris: 'It's the price of a new in-box stern' and 'you can literally go to eBay or like Alibaba and get a knockoff for like an eighth of that price'

  • ?

    restoration_signal: John Grist's Brisbane-based Gottlieb restoration workshop contains original Gottlieb test rigs, custom-made test fixtures for multiple games, and advanced diagnostic equipment for pinball board repair

    high · Jared: 'he had a Gottlieb test rig that Gottlieb would use themselves to plug the boards in... he's made up his own rigs for other games'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Dolby at Zen Studios recently promoted to designer role; first promoted designer role handling full title from design through release; Snoopy table appears to be proving ground for new designer capability

    high · Chris: 'Dolby was featured in this latest Pinball Show episode... He's one of the designers that's been with Zen for a little while and just recently got promoted to designer'

  • ?

    technology_signal: FX3 update added button remapping feature allowing controllers to use shoulder buttons instead of trigger buttons for improved accessibility

    high · Chris: 'one of the bug fixes that came with this update... they did make it so that if you're using a controller, that you can remap the buttons to use the shoulder buttons rather than the trigger buttons'

  • ?

    content_signal: BlahCade produced live gameplay footage of Snoopy table for podcast episode, providing community first-look at new digital title with detailed feature analysis and design critique

    high · Chris: 'Zen just put out another The Pinball Show, and they had some things in that episode, specifically introducing new table, which is Snoopy on Zen Pinball Party. We will be playing that live here'

    • 3:37
    Yeah, because otherwise you get a lot of people taking photos like this. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. And you're like trying to... And then you go smile and they go... Really? So people have a hard time actually smiling when they have their photo taken? Sometimes. It depends. You get other people that are just like immediately just like total hands and everything. But I mean... And that's what I'm saying.
    4:03
    There's... there's it is a performance and yeah you've got to play to the crowd um yeah so yeah and sometimes you can tell that the people are like hiding in their shell and you just need to crack it open and they'll come right out and other times you're like nope that person is a brick wall and we're not getting anywhere so we're not even gonna try we're just gonna take this shot and move on exactly alright I've got an interesting thing that happened this week so Force 2 is actually off at the service place at the moment it is complete from my perspective now it just needs to get power conversion and other things so it doesn't burn down my house which you know these African pins would do if you just chuck them straight onto power because number one they're configured for 110 volts um so you got to do the quick power conversion but there's so many other things wrong with this one underneath the play field that yeah you gotta you gotta spend the money on these ones um but it gave me because i had to actually drop the table off at um john grist place john is the specialist for gottlieb here in Brisbane pretty much. I got to see his workshop and this guy has got some amazing stuff in his workshop. Like he had for a customer, he actually had a Ms. Pac-Man which I'd never seen before.
    5:31
    But when you go into his workshop, he's actually got all these original test rigs and one of them is a Gottlieb test rig that Gottlieb would use themselves to plug the boards in. and work out which lamp matrix faults it had. Wow, that's pretty legit. So it was like, it was, like, you know, you know it's legit when you can match the font on the interface. It's like a, almost like a keyboard matrix interface with keys on it that you can press to actually activate the lights. Wow. And it's screened, and it's got, like, that Gottlieb font on it of the 70s and 80s, and it's like, wow. this is unobtainium stuff this guy has. He's made up his own rigs for other games, which is essentially when you're making up a test rig, all you need to do is basically take the back box, the back box plate where all the lights are, and then just replicate the boards on there and then just connect them up to bulbs and stuff like that to test transistors. That's essentially what you do. But he's got a whole pile of these set up in his workshop. it's quite incredible. So it was a real treat to go and have a look at this place and see what John's got,
    6:51
    why he is that good at fixing up machines. So yeah, that was pretty cool. So one of the things we were planning on doing last time was talking about the second wave of the auction that happened with the Banning Collection.
    7:13
    and I've misplaced the link that listed all the final prices because you couldn't go to the website anymore, but I think on Pinside they got addressed. But there was a Vice story about it. Oh, yeah. And they were talking about what the projected prices on some of these things were and everything. And I think the highest priced thing, and I wish I knew what the table was, but it was, I think, $42,000. 42 grand sorry i have a banging blind here no worries um um yeah 42 grand yeah so i'm very curious to know what that was i'll have to i'll have to look it back up wondering if that was that magic girl or not uh it probably would have been something pretty rare and unique yeah um well you'd hope so hopefully it wasn't something like a twilight zone where someone just went Nothing. Right? Nothing. I have to have it. They did say that all total, I think they earned $6 million, which was under what they were hoping.
    8:18
    Under? They wanted $7 million at least. I think that's how much it was, like, what they were in the hole for.
    8:27
    Wow. Okay. Yeah. Jeez. Yeah. But now it's going to be a weed farm. A weed? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's time to grow the wacky tobacco. That's right.
    8:41
    Anyway, so that was initially what our thought was, but, I mean, it's also, you know, time passes and people stop caring. So it wasn't exactly hot news anymore.
    8:53
    Instead, today, what we have hot news. So Zen just put out another The Pinball Show, and they had some things in that episode, specifically introducing new table, which is Snoopy on Zen Pinball Party. We will be playing that live here. So you can, for those of you without the old Apple Arcade, you can get a sense of what this table is like. Spoiler alert, I'm calling it the best of these new tables that has been produced so far. I'd probably agree as a TLDR. Yeah. I mean, it's still, it's still simplistic in terms of there's not deep stacking of modes or anything, obviously. But the layout and the actual play and kind of the basic rule set, it's better than what the other ones have been, as far as I'm concerned. Again, I might be biased because the theme does hit me.
    9:54
    Yeah, see, I'm not even really super engaged on the theme. Right. But I can still tell it's just a better balanced game than the other ones.
    10:05
    So anyway, we'll be taking a look at that. We are also going to be taking a look, and I think maybe we'll start with this, Jared.
    10:16
    Zen announced a new partnership with a virtual pinball cab maker, and that is Skillshot Effects. now this is a company that apparently has been making uh an in-home ski ball uh yeah i don't know whose home is big enough to hold a ski ball table but oh i've seen them my people people that have basically one up yeah yeah they they i've seen some ski balls sitting right next to rk1 cabinets yeah um so yeah so anyway uh they have gone in licensed uh with FX3 is basically. So kind of the same deal that VB Cabs had in terms of licensing.
    11:02
    So I'm going to bring up what the cab looks like here. There we go. There's our website. And as you can see, it has kind of got a little modern flair to it in terms of cab design. It doesn't look like your traditional boxy cab. Yeah. I think it's on a plinth there's a word yeah a plinth hmm it's kind of unusual there's a reason why it's on that plinth yeah 52 inch monitor for the playfield that's big I don't know what the back glass is but that's a back glass monitor also say about 20 um don't know if there's any other information oh look video we can watch that we play that a little bit huh and that's it's got a you can kind of see this is their custom interface designs they have volume controls right on the top back button view it's the obvious place to put it yes and I like how they've I like how they've actually integrated that into the lockdown bar not as a panel that then takes up real estate that should be a it's right here a little note and they're nice and flat so it's not like you can accidentally hit the buttons and see how they've got a nice inset for the monitor it's got that actual playfield slant on it it's got actually a rake on the playfield which really does make a difference to perception yep in the game so they've they've taken some some design cues probably from other digital pinball tables let's be honest um but it's got the bones of something pretty nice and it looks really nice like it's a nice looking cabinet yeah it is a nice looking cabinet and uh what's the other thing oh i know that it also they send it with one of those little tiny controller interfaces with a full keypad so that if you're doing dealing with because it's hooked up with steam i mean it's obviously yeah this is steam based um so that you can still you know do all the basic functions anything that's not going to function with this you know interface here this interface is basically just for you know obviously once you have a setup pay people can come play voila they're done it really is designed to be used with fx3 they've done some integration that allows you to adjust volume and they've got view buttons and stuff in there so they kind of keyed that part of the panel just to fx3 yeah yeah okay those are the good points oh it apparently comes with comes with back glasses oh custom back glasses right well i mean i don't know if they made them themselves or if zen did i would zen when you come out with pin effects please for the love of god provide back glasses animated back glasses would be even better with approved art on them right so that it so it makes the licenses happy. Because I would think that, and this is something that when we get a chance to talk to Mel, I'm sure we'll want to address, but if they can do the video screen for the DMD now, they can certainly do full-size animated back glass. And where it would be really cool is, and I think this may be a stretch, but with our alphanumeric tables that don't have the DMD area, like Funhaus, fills up basically where the dmd was right yes but you do something like space station and it's got the four slots i think i'm correct it's got the full glasses basically where the displays are right so i would love it if they could start reproducing the back glasses in that manner and have them and you have to do that way but the main thing is is to not make us have to provide back glass so that every single time a new table is created that then we have to go through that whole rigmarole and everything. Anyway, just saying. If you can do it for these guys, do for us at home, too.
    15:14
    That's right. Yeah. So, the things that I'm noticing here, and I'm sure this stands out to you, too, Jared, no manual plunger.
    15:25
    No. And that second flipper button, that is for nudge. Yes, that's not for your second flippers. for nudging.
    15:37
    Which it's unfortunate but okay. I guess the nudge factor I can kind of understand because that's kind of like if you look at what AtGames has done with their Legends pinball, that's exactly what's happening.
    15:58
    And I think maybe that's it. I think that's another reason why. It's because of the plinth. would make it very hard to twist the table and actually make an accelerometer register. Right. The unfortunate part is how do you register an up nudge?
    16:20
    You can do side-to-side nudges, but how do you register an up nudge? I don't know. They need to be some sort of switch on the lockdown bars. Honestly, that's the obvious place to put the buttons or switches, like integrate it into the lockdown bar, because the lockdown bar wouldn't be coming off like you would have traditionally on a pinball machine. So if you were smart, you would actually devise a system that had micro switches in the nudge bar, and that would be where the tilting would happen. And that's the logical place for it. you can still have the game on a plinth or legs or whatever, and the nudge bar becomes your interface. Now, that would be the smart money. That's what I'd do if I was designing one. Yeah.
    17:10
    So those are the two obvious things. We don't know what this is running on in terms of PC video card specs.
    17:20
    I'd speculate probably because they're accessible at the moment, probably like an NVIDIA 1680 or something like that. Possibly. But it's kind of a bummer that they're not... I was looking all over their website and I couldn't find any mention of this.
    17:39
    But because it is Steam-based, obviously you're going to be able to run any other Steam game on here that you want. And in that eventuality that when PinFX becomes available on Steam, I want to know what the video card is because it would suck if it's not up to snuff for the new thing I don't know I'm hoping they're not using something like one of those small form factor gaming PCs inside it, you know the ones that are essentially like an Alienware or like a ROG 29 or something, you know one of those smaller form factor things that are all in one that would make sense from a build a materials perspective because it's easy enough to get those, but that would limit your upgrade possibilities Yeah Um and the reason why I say that that a shame that we not finding out that information at the most I don know Maybe we need to fire off an email and be like, hey, guys, fill us in. But the huge sticking point to me, the price tag.
    18:47
    Yeah. It's probably $9,000, folks. Yeah. It's the price of a new in-box stern. I think that's my biggest shocker, is that for $9,000, we can't get a physical plunger?
    19:07
    Yeah, we can't get a physical plunger, and we can't get accelerometer tilt. That is just unacceptable. And so, do you think this has anything to do with the licensing agreement that they have with Arcade 1UP? like hardware wise the actual cost no in terms of their license with Arcade 1UP does Arcade 1UP have a deal where it's like hey yeah you can license this to everybody else but the nudging and the manual plunger are ours to you know software wise I wonder because the thing is that I don't think that the build that they've got in Arcade 1.0 obviously is the Android version. It's a custom build for them. Yeah, this is the Steam build. Custom interface. And with the Steam build, I can use my accelerometer. Obviously, with my pin sim, I have physical plunger. I have the ability to use accelerometer.
    20:18
    Yeah, you do. I don't know. It's just a weird choice. That's all I'm saying, that this isn't here for that price point because there are many other digital pinball platforms that have those things.
    20:36
    That's right. Like, you know, about 2% of the cost of this as well. They do have solenoids for the flippers, but there was no mention of solenoids anywhere else on the table. So, again, that's something that maybe we need to reach out.
    20:57
    You've got to understand, folks, the pinball show, it came out yesterday. We're reacting to it now, so we haven't had time to actually reach out and communicate.
    21:07
    That's right. So we're sort of, yeah, it's pretty fresh, pretty fresh news. This is just us reacting. Yeah. Reacting videos. Man, that's why I should title these videos, Jared.
    21:20
    Chris and Jared react to anything. Just react, because those apparently get all the hits. Yeah, that's right. Anyway. Everyone wants opinions. Right? Even if they're lame.
    21:32
    That's right. Of course, we just aren't. I mean, like I said, I think the design factor is interesting. It sets it apart from looking. I mean, you're not having to deal with pinball legs or whatever. It also means you don't get to adjust anything. But I'm sure it's of a standard pinball height, so there's not much adjustment that you normally would be doing anyway. There's a nice neon or LED light strip underneath it too, so you get that stuff underneath, which is nice. Again, that's why they wanted the plinth, although they could have easily worked around that with legs and just putting a skirt underneath the playfield as well. But this is at least making it their own, you know what I mean?
    22:17
    Jared's got to do the speckle wipe. No, this is... It's making it their own, and obviously you can see here with it right next to the skee-ball in the background. It goes with their product line. You know what I mean? So there's a design aesthetic. It's definitely toned in. Oh yeah, it definitely is.
    22:39
    So if this is basically... So if you are a slingshot fan, then this will fit nicely in your game room. Yeah.
    22:50
    And I'll bet you the price of that skee-ball isn't cheap either. So I'd say you've got pretty deep pockets if you're using this as your arcade room supplier. Well, if you can afford that loft.
    23:02
    Yeah, that's right. That's pretty good. Loft in New York City. It says also 96 different pinball games. The only things that are missing from that list are the Jurassic Park tables. Okay. Which you can still add in on your own. So I'm assuming that this comes preloaded with them, maybe?
    23:26
    I think, because it says right out of the box. So it looks like you get a license entitlement to those tables. It makes sense. Again, that's what VBCabs was doing also.
    23:37
    Yeah. So anyway, hit us up. Let us know what you guys think about this new entry into the virtual space. obviously it doesn't cost Zen a dime to do this isn't taking anything out of them this is them being commissioned or signing a license that's about the scope of it this is another example of how you actually license that program correctly right to conform with the EULA so they've done it it's I don't suspect that the price is reflecting any license engagement. No, I feel it's building costs.
    24:22
    It's really building, because there's some premium materials used on that. It looks like nice wood. Well, because they said that they're also not using the cheap buttons. I mean, again, buttons. We're talking the difference between a couple of bucks and, you know, $8. A buck. Yeah, that's right.
    24:40
    Ultimately, that's not what you're dealing with but i mean a 52 inch screen though that's pretty mega that's big that's bigger than most digital pinball builds most of them are doing the 40 inch screen right yeah that are almost put into like a wide body or super wide body scale yeah as well which is interesting and again video cards aren't cheap right now so they're not we've seen i was this is what i was wondering if they're using a good spec pc in there and uh like a nvidia 3 3000 series card then that's about you know two or three thousand dollars right there at the moment because of you know processor shortages um so you know there's a fair chunk of change caught up in that but then you know maybe add on $1,000 for the screen. Yeah.
    25:39
    So, you know, you got about halfway there to $8,000. So, yeah, you know, I can see why it is the price it is, but I can't see too many of these walking off the shelf. Yeah. When you can literally go to eBay or, like, Alibaba and get a knockoff for, like, an eighth of that price and get a pretty decent spec for that. All right. Moving on. I promised a report on the beer. It has been cracked open. It was consumed a little bit by the wife.
    26:18
    Turns out she hasn't had a drink of beer in many a year either. So it was not like the flavor was, you know, or not the flavor. The tongue was of the educated variety. Yeah, the connoisseur variety.
    26:36
    But her initial impression, tasted like Coors Light. To which I went, wait a second. What happened to the hints of pineapple and mango, I think they were saying. And she's like, I don't know. Tastes like Coors Light.
    26:55
    Okay. There you go. See, if they could somehow get some of this stuff down to me. I drink enough craft beer. through Netherworld, that I could probably give it a somewhat more different critique. Right. You might actually have the palate. To me, it's like the people that do the wine tasting, right? It tastes like grapes. I'm like, yep, that's wine. And not sitting there going, oh, it's got a nice earthy tone to it with hints of whatever. Yeah. I can taste that it was definitely, the vines were definitely growing on the shady side of the hill. Boy, that's a Ponce kind of comment, right?
    27:38
    Yep. Oh, my God. All right. So that was that. Oh, all right. Let's get into the Snoopy gameplay. Yeah, all right. Then we'll get into the giant logs that were thrown onto the speculation fire.
    28:05
    That's right, in the latest Pimble show. Yes. So let me get my phone ready to do a little Snoopy action here. I'm going to apologize for the volume again, because I know that last time it was rather loud. Super loud. Yeah. So drop your volume down now. And if you're listening in the podcast, here's your chance to go now and have a look at the YouTube channel and look at this episode, which you'll see in the show notes. So just go to the show notes, click on that, and you'll get the link directly to the video. All right. So here we go. Snoop Pinball. As you can see, I've already gotten two stars on it. I haven't gotten beyond that. I've only played this a little tiny bit. But let me just fire this up and let you see what's what. like first thing it hits me i really love the cell animation they're using this yes very much like the bobs burgers south park style um that they've they've done obviously not with that particular artist artistic side it's very faithful to peanuts yeah i mean especially here with woodstock and that and that nest um yeah that's that's really really on point good choice of what to make 3D versus what to make cardboard.
    29:24
    Yes. Essentially. Yeah. From what I'm understanding, this is based on the 80s? Version of? Yes, the 80s comic strip era. Which, I mean, I did grow up reading that. So. Oh, I don't know. You probably didn't catch what they just said. Every single time you launch the ball,
    29:45
    you get Charlie Brown saying, everybody has to leave home which is just really odd to me yeah you know there's another call out in this game when I was playing it which was odd as well and see if you can get it see if you can get multiple and listen to the call out that's there okay there's another call out that I know that has to do with when you get the bonus multiplier Okay, so right off the bat, though, it said we had our call-out. It said shoot for Snoopy's doghouse for main modes. Thank you, Zen. Here we go. Thank you for... This is instructions to the player. Yes, you're paying voice actors. Oh, that'd be... And it doesn't cost much to actually have them tell you to do something, and there are call-outs throughout the game to tell you what to do.
    30:43
    So let me... Yep, it's great. let me see if I can it's so good to hear that sort of guidance so there we go hey look at that doghouse turns then you launch again it was a dark and stormy night we get to do that um I'll just do dogfight for the sake of doing dogfight the thing that right there is the thing that I dislike about this table what's that and that is it ejects the ball without any flashing light or sound yes so did my question work out yeah Yeah, and that's a real surprise. You shouldn't be surprised.
    31:18
    That's design 101 when it comes to pinball. Seek out the Red Baron and bring him down. So this is your classic hit the magnetic ball kind of action, except there's no magnet. Seek out the Red Baron and bring him down. Hope to play with. Yeah.
    31:37
    Gee, that's a... I hate that Red Baron. Don't worry, you'll get him next time. That's how you drain. And I'm going to say, this game, a lot of drains. It's not super easy. It's not as easy as the other ones that are in the Animated Heroes collection in Send People to Party. So there's that call-out again, everyone has to leave home.
    32:02
    There must be meaning behind that. It would be interesting to speak to the designer about it and why that call-out was there. Right, speak to Dolby. Dolby's the one that designed this one.
    32:14
    Dolby was featured in this latest Pinball Show episode. Yes, it was. It was actually good to hear from one of the designers and have them participate in the show quite as a mid-roll. He's one of the designers that's been with Zen for a little while and just recently got promoted to designer.
    32:37
    So good on him. Congrats, Dolby. Yeah. So I kind of like the idea, actually, if this game here, the Zen Pinball Party, is being used as a proving ground, you might say, for the new designers.
    32:54
    Oh, without a doubt. It's a chance for them to actually cut their teeth on a release from Soup to Nuts and see how it performs. So yeah, I have no doubt that's exactly what they're doing here. Lock the ball!
    33:09
    Do you have... Here's a question for you, Chris, when you're playing this game. How do you find the shot off that upper left flipper? Very difficult. Really hard? Very difficult. Really hard. Yeah. I just cannot... I cannot get the timing on it. Okay, I'm going to try... I'm sure I would be able to. Oh, shoot. But it is seriously hard to get the timing on it. Yeah.
    33:31
    I want to try and raise the multiplier to show what I'm hearing and see if this is what Jared was talking about also. So let me try and do that. The skill shot is very difficult to nail, because you can't see one of the lanes. Yeah, that's the other complaint I've got about this game. It's like the kite-eating tree is obstructing the lights. At that particular view, I'm sure if you change the view, it's made flatter, you won't be able to see it. The thing that I find is that if you have a design element like that, it needs to be visible at all angles. like it, you've got to have it visible so a lot of the time, you know, in some of the Belly Williams tables, they had some destruction issues in the rollover lanes, like for example Theatre of Magic book they did to work around those, put mirrors up there so you could actually see them, which is a nice sort of cheap work around, in this case it's really quite impossible because the tree is rather opaque, and it covers a huge amount of upper playfield area looks good thematically but if it obstructs a playfield like an actual gameplay element then for my money it's not good it's not an effective thing to put in there oh my god I like the really clear scrolling light patterns on all the shots you need to take, they're very obvious which ones you need to shoot so it's really good feedback Again, we've talked about that with just insert lights in general. That it's nice when that embraces traditional pinball design.
    35:17
    Yes. Because that makes for better light shows. Well, it does make for better light shows, yeah. And we're seeing this more in these newer tables now. You know, we've actually got inserts with text on them. We've got more light shows like this that actually have clear, like you really know what shot to take. It's very much a, there's no doubt what you need to shoot. And the voice call-outs also help as well. I just realized Jared can't hear any of what I'm playing. Everyone has to hear me. I can't at all. So I'm just going to have to tell Jared when to shut up so that we can actually hear what I'm trying to highlight.
    36:00
    Okay, one more for collecting the Multi...Multiplier. Then... I think everybody will hear what it says. Here we go. Multiplayer raised! Right, so it says Multiplayer raised. Not Multiplier, Multiplayer. Multiplier, yeah. No, it says Multiplayer. Multiplayer, yeah. a multiplayer raise. It's like, no, that's the multiplier.
    36:34
    Yeah, that's the one that I was... It actually wasn't the multiball. It was that call-out that I went... So there was something a little bit lost in translation.
    36:46
    Yeah, I think someone misread the script there. That needs to be re-recorded. Because you will hear it. If I've heard it, you'll hear it multiple times. Yeah. So yeah that upper left flipper is a bear it really is and those drains I telling you Flipper is a bear It really is It so hard to get it And those drains I telling you man this is a side table. And me playing on the phone, I'm not nudging. No.
    37:17
    So, you know, the whole nudging mechanism is tricky on mobile. It's probably better if you go to an Apple Arcade with a joypad. Yeah, and oh, by the way, folks, one of the bug fixes that came with this update that added this, they did make it so that if you're using a controller, that you can remap the buttons to use the shoulder buttons rather than the trigger buttons.
    37:47
    Oh, that's good. Yeah. For those people who are triggered by shoulder buttons. Yes. You're welcome. All right. This is tricky because we're trying to... Stupid dog! Do exactly not that. Avoid Lucy. You don't want to hit... You don't want to get Lucy.
    38:06
    Yeah, so I'm trying to... You want to get that scrolling lame. Wait for her to disappear there. It's funny, you know, that scrolling... Ooh, nearly got it. You just... Sly borked. Yeah. There we go. Ooh, there you go.
    38:24
    And then we've got to catch it again. Let's see if we can get this one. Oh. Oh, pricks. There you go. There we go. Up to the tree next.
    38:40
    Stupid dog. I'll hit her instead. And that was... I botched the mode. And that's the thing. These modes look deceptively simple, but they're not really. You do have to think about what you're doing in them. Hit the home base saucer. Okay, so again, there's nice, where it's like, it told me to hit the home base saucer. You know, look for something. You just activated... Oh, and then out the drain. You just activated something.
    39:09
    Go and shoot it. But unfortunately, and this is again where the game gets tough, do you think it stays lit?
    39:16
    No. Everyone has to leave home. It does not stay lit. Lock the ball! In the case of me hitting the home base button, well, now we've got to hit the baseball again a couple of times.
    39:29
    Because I'm going to show you the upper playfield. It's a little draining. Because the baseball is how you actually access the upper playfield. Yeah. Isn't it? Yeah. And that's one of those ejects that if you don't raise your flipper, it's a center drain. Yeah, you've got to tip catch it or tip divert it.
    39:53
    Snoopy! Supper time! Oh, look. Time to feed Snoopy. Yeah. So, you know, basically your lane chase. There you go.
    40:06
    So you shoot a lane, then shoot the kennel. And that's how you feed Snoopy. That was nearly a shat's pass.
    40:15
    Oh, that was... Well, suddenly my phone is slowing down. Oh, you must be overheating. Yeah, I think I'm overheating. You have a thermal issue with your phone. Which is okay because it's game over It's game over So we're going to let it live at that Be game over Anyway It's a peaceful table It doesn't feel frantic No I don't really think there's much Hurry up mode action The call outs are pretty good And the Shots are varied as to when you need to take them and what you need to do. So those are all positive design choices in my book. It's actually a fan reverse Lawler. You can think about it. A fan reverse Lawler, interesting choice. Well, because the flip was on the left-hand side, not the right.
    41:15
    So, yeah, it's an interesting... I think it's a solid first design from Dolby. I think he's done a really good job. And like I said, of the four, or now this will be the fifth, of the five tables that have been made exclusive for the Apple Arcade Zen Pinball Party, I think this one so far has been the most enjoyable to me and offering the most gameplay.
    41:43
    Here's the interesting thing. I gave the iPad to the kids the other day. Oh, yeah. I got them to try it. and it was interesting.
    41:56
    Let me just close my window because this blind is blocking me. There you go, solved that problem. So I gave it to Sienna first and I let her just explore the tables. Got her to play Snoopy first because it was the newer one and she said, oh yeah, it's really quite hard. I'm having trouble actually getting the flipper to do what I want it to do.
    42:27
    Admittedly, I'm using this on a hand-me-down iPad Air 2. So it's not one of the most powerful iPads out there. And it is old now. It's updated to the latest software, but it's still an old hardware configuration. so I gave it to Zach next and he gave Snoopy a go once but then he just immediately just ignored them and went straight to William Spinball and started playing all those tables instead so I said it would be really good if you could actually give me the feedback on the other ones because I'd like to talk about it on the show and he goes oh ok So he reluctantly went back and played some of the other ones. But you can see he just wasn't into it at all. He wanted to play the Williams tables. He wanted to play specifically the getaway. Granted, you've taken your kids to a pinball arcade, so they're familiar with the real things too. They are familiar with the real things. He was more gravitating towards the original tables.
    43:36
    Sorry, the Williams tables, not the animated heroes. And he's 11. a lot of those tables are very young. Yes. So they would probably appeal more to Sienna's age group. And this is interesting, right? Because this is clearly what Zen's going for. The animated heroes tables appeal to a certain age group.
    44:02
    And the other tables in the collection appeal to older kids like Zack. and again the difference between my kids age is two years so cns8 is x11 yeah so it's not a big age difference yet the taste in games is really really different so it shows that the strategy here seems to be a sound strategy to actually include different titles for different strokes for different folks and start appealing to all ages yeah yeah that's right so that demonstrates that it's definitely true. There's something in there for everyone.
    44:42
    Okay, so that was Zen Pinball Party. Like I said, it's good to see that they're actually addressing some of the fan feedback in a semi-timely manner. I mean, obviously, there was a big patch for this, so why not throw that into the patch, mainly being that they said there were general bug fixes, but again, the controller support was a big one, I know, for people.
    45:06
    Yes. So it's good to see they were addressing that. Other thing that happened in this latest pinball show,
    45:17
    they had Dolby interview two of the gentlemen from Spooky Pinball. What? Yeah. What? Yeah. Now, it was done under the auspices of, hey, it's Halloween, and you guys have a Halloween table. Let's talk about that for a little bit. But I believe it was the last episode. Me and Jared were talking about how, you know, with that video screen coming up, it would make sense to team up with a more independent pinball designer like Spooky, where it would be beneficial to both parties to do digital pinball. raise the profile of spooky and then also give zen you know some of these licensed real world tables to to mess with uh and here we get this interview yeah i mean interesting it was like throwing a couple of very large speculation logs on a speculation fire um yeah a slowly burning speculation fire so now it's raging. Yeah, because it's not like Zen has had... I don't believe they've had anybody conducted interviews that have been made public to everybody from Stern. Have they? No. No. No. Never. They've not ever put another pinball company's stuff and put their label on it. Yeah, because we were saying, if you paired up with Spooky, if you paired up with american pinball because let's face it stern does not need zen they don't they're doing just fine they've got their own thing going on there yeah um and they they are well and truly cemented in the marketplace now and they might they might still be feeling burned with farsight um so to where again it becomes well what are you offering us but i think zen is also looking at this from the point of, hey, this is a two-way street. You've got to be offering us something, too. Yeah, absolutely. Beyond just the name, you know. So there's where it was like, yeah, American Pinball, Spooky,
    47:40
    who a Dutch pinball, although I don't know if they're really producing anything beyond. But anyway, you get what I'm saying, where these smaller companies might be more lucrative to attach yourself. We've got the Aussie guys down here, Haggis. Oh, yeah, Haggis, exactly. Who have released, who will be releasing Fathom.
    48:02
    And currently have Celts. Yeah. Or Celts. Whatever you like to call it. Celts out there. Which apparently is quite a surprising sleeper hit for those people who actually play it.
    48:15
    So, yeah, they're doing all the right things down here. I also found it interesting because in the show, Rose was wearing a Viking costume, and they asked, she was like, oh, what's a table that I would love to see? I'd love to see a Viking table.
    48:33
    American Pinball just announced Valhalla. They did, yeah. So, I don't know how many Easter eggs are getting thrown or lobbed into these shows, but the quinkity. It seems to me that there's... It seems just a little bit too coincidental to ignore. Yes. You know, I didn't actually pay a lot of attention this month to the back wall. The back wall didn't really change from last time. It didn't, no. It didn't really change, but they didn't need a back wall this time. because I think we can pretty much assume from that interview,
    49:12
    FX will contain some real-world boutique manufacturer pinball machines. Now, the interview that they put up with the pinball show was a truncated interview. It was very much. I did not watch the full interview. Jared, you said you did. Was there more info to be gleaned from the full interview?
    49:33
    Yeah, so the section that you saw included in the pinball show just focus on the Halloween table and the design, the design approach to that table. Yeah, how it came about. How it came about, which was fine. That made up about four minutes of the 26-minute interview.
    49:52
    So the 26-minute interview touched on things like, you know, how is there a pinball scene in Benton, Wisconsin?
    50:01
    The short answer is not really. is there like how hard is it to like keep staff and actually find the right staff there in Benton and the answer is it's difficult there's a fair bit of churn so they get they they go from oversubscribed like too many people to not enough people so it's hard to keep the staff levels at a constant there they also said though that you know if you want to get into pinball move to Benton The reason being is that if you kind of rock up within reason to Spooky Pinball and say, hey, I want a job, I want to make a start in the pinball industry, chances are you'll get a gig there and it could actually be the start of a career in pinball for you because you start off on the production line, you cut your teeth there. um you know bug i think um said that there's around 15 different jobs that need to be done in the business probably ranging from you know assembly line worker to sort of running the show which is sort of what um bugs doing now that he's graduated high school when he's like graduated high school and he's like holy crap i'm so yeah he's like literally like they started the business when he was just a teenager um i remember him being on spooky pinball podcast show um talking about it and um you know i i stopped listening to the show about three or four years ago but like he he was growing up with pinball um and while charlie his father was like spinning this business up from nothing basically and building into what it is today were there they pretty much went from i think rick and morty was 750 units and they doubled the amount of pinball machines for this um current run of um halloween the kaiju ultra and helen yeah the ultraman and um and the uh the current one that they got on the line here that they featured so that was sort of like interesting a little bit of inside baseball stuff really that they were talking about but the really interesting part came towards the end of that video and that was when they started talking about um so they they flipped around the the interview and and spooky started asking questions of zen oh like comments on stuff was in and one of those things was so they only really this is this is what they're saying in the video I I think this was more a bit of a for the benefit of the video this is how they spun it but they were saying that hey you know they were introduced to Zen Zen's fx3 product oh you know just by chance about you know four or so months ago now what wait yeah they had no clue about Zen pinball prior to that apparently so yeah i call shenanigans okay go on shenanigans on that um so and um i think i'm sorry i've forgotten the the the the other person on the the interview you might be i remember chris his name i don't but um but he was saying that he's the one who found it and then he went and showed Bug this, basically what FX3 was all about. And they openly admitted to saying, wow, like the way that you do theme integrations has kind of inspired us about what we could potentially do in the future for our tables and how we actually integrate themes. And they were acknowledging that while, you know, they can't have, in the case, they actually identified JAWS actually, as a table that really blew them away at how good the theme integration was. Like they were commenting on the fact that, you know, the shark swims around, jumps out of the water and really sort of makes a big appearance. Now, and they were going, you know, while we obviously we can't make a shark jump out of the water on a real pinball machine, we can think about the type of ways that we could do something similar with mechanisms in the play field to actually really more tightly integrate themes. and they made an open comment that said look based on what we saw from your collection of catalog and how you integrate themes it has inspired us for the next table that we're producing so we're really basically going to be taking a lot of the integration sort of cues that you've done in a lot of your digital tables and we're going to be putting that into the way we think about designing the next table which apparently they're even more excited about than the current ones they've got let me swipe my screen um so so there is the bit to me that sounds like um cue the commercial cable collaboration they are going to be working closely between Zen and and spooky pinball the next table that they produce I have a feeling will debut physically and digitally that my call okay That what I got from this interview It sounded like the fact that they were openly admitting that they were going to basically steal some ideas from Tim in their next tables is like, hmm, that's very interesting. Imagine if you were doing a collaboration of sorts, right, where they're just trying to figure... Let's say that Jaws is the collaboration, okay?
    56:06
    Wherein they're looking at, oh, hey, Zen can do anything because it's all animated. We want to figure out how to do a mechanical version.
    56:16
    And that's how it gets... Like, you want the mechanical? Here's the mechanical version. You want the more fantasy? Here's the Zen version, right? So it's not necessarily that Zen is having to replicate what physically would happen on their machine, but it's the spirit with which it happens. So on Zen, you do have the shark coming up and swallowing or whatever. And on theirs, it would be something where it's, you know, who knows, let's say a scoop pops up and, you know, to capture the ball, that kind of thing. Exactly. Right? But it would make for, it would make it like what you're saying, to be able to do a, say, day and date release, where you have a digital version and you have a mechanical version. The two are separate, not competing with each other, But the layout is virtually the same. The licensing would be the same. The artwork would be the same.
    57:06
    And that means Zen wouldn't have to have the physical product and mapping it all out, you know, kind of thing to, again, do that one-to-one ballplay integration. It's an interesting idea of how to get around that idea of, oh, if we put it out on digital, it's going to cannibalize our market share.
    57:29
    Yeah, which the thing is with spooky pinballs, and this is a good point that Dolby raised in the interview, is like he's never played one because they're just not available in Poland. Right. So, you know, from that perspective, and we've said this countless times before in the show, you know, getting your product into a good quality digital pinball designer like Zen and allowing people to play the game without having access to it necessarily. That's one marketing strategy you can use to sell tables. Now, the problem with a lot of the spooky tables is they often sell out in two hours. Exactly. So very few people are going to get their hands on them. Very few people. The only reason why I've had the luxury of playing spooky tables is that Netherworld seems to be a fan of them and they get them in. apart from that I would not have had a chance to play Rick and Morty at all which would have been a real shame because I really love the table but you know their back catalogue is large enough now that they could have a spooky pinball section in FX and imagine also I'm sure spooky felt a little bit of the hurt of not getting Godzilla?
    59:04
    Yes. So imagine if you have the licensing acumen of Zen backing you up. Yeah. Then that's the other thing that was touched upon in the... You can infer from that last part of the Zen interview with Spooky is the fact that wow, the licenses you've been able to get and the way you integrated those licenses into the product is incredible, is what they were saying. And it's like, yeah, well, here's Spooky's gateway, basically, into licensing that they would not be able to get their hands on. Because they were saying that the Sterns, they tend to go to Columbia TriStar or Marvel or whoever, and they've got those relationships. But for someone like Spooky to get anywhere near those, you know, it's, you have to sort of go kind of cap in hand begging to go and get anyone to speak to you even. But the thing is that Zen's already got that relationship built and, you know, it's easy for them to go in and just, you know, have these conversations. So, you know, this is the advantage of working with someone like Zen. Yeah. I'm glad that they, though, paid attention to the integration of the theme. and I'm assuming also how the gameplay itself goes, because the one knock that I've had on any of the spookies that I've played, and it's even me looking at the Halloween table, I don't care for all the upper playfield stuff that they do. To me, it ruins the flow.
    60:39
    Yeah, you've told me that you're not a big fan of upper playfields. I'm not a big fan. In the previous episode, yeah. The only table of theirs that I really truly liked was Total Nuclear Annihilation. Yep. Because of its simplicity. Its simplicity, but it was flow, flow, flow, and fast, right? It was. So, again, if any kind of collaboration comes out of this, it would be nice to be able to tap into Zen and be like, hey, what do you think about this? And then have Zen go, well, you know, if you did it like this, then have them go, oh, okay, we'll figure that out. We'll work out the engineering on that, sure. Exactly. So, like I said, let's keep our eyeballs peeled on this. Let's see if Rose's Viking wish has anything to do with American Pinball's Valhalla.
    61:32
    Again, that would lead us to getting Oktoberfest, maybe, and Houdini. Hot Wheels. Is Hot Wheels... Oh, so Hot Wheels is American. I'm correct. That's all the same company, right? Sure is. Yeah. Okay.
    61:47
    I've played all three of those in person and they're fun tables I've not played Hot Wheels I've played uh Oktoberfest and Houdini um yeah uh something else I'll just throw this out there we didn't me and Jared didn't even discuss this uh but I kind of want to get your take real quick on it Jared uh Stern they announced a new Jurassic Park pinball that oh the pin yeah are they still calling it the pin yeah they are okay uh well it's it's yeah it's yes they are this one designed by uh uh dead flip and in terms of the layout and the shots and everything it screamed late 80s early 90s to me williams yeah which isn't a bad thing No, it's certainly not a bad thing at all. It certainly looked better than other efforts that I've seen in this budget-minded attitude of when Stern has put these things out. The interesting thing here is that Deadflip, he was basically brought in to try and reinvigorate the design, the standard design they're using for the pin machines. because they've recycled the same layout countless times now. Okay.
    63:14
    And I think it was getting a bit old, and they needed to rethink how they actually do this table. And this one, you know, it's got some different stuff in it. There's actually the dinosaur head that actually spits the ball out. Right. And there's what you would think for this price point, which... Five grand. I'll put out there. It's five grand. So it's actually pay an extra one and a half or about that, and you can get a pro Jurassic Park, which I know what I'd rather buy. Right. And it's not the pin.
    63:54
    But for someone who just can't reach. If these were $3,500, this would be a whole different discussion.
    64:02
    Yeah, absolutely. That would be a very different discussion. it would be, yep, I'm having one of these for the game room.
    64:10
    But it really, there's not enough difference in price to actually differentiate this one with like a pro version of Jurassic Park, which is a far better game.
    64:23
    So it's good, again, that Stern is bringing in different designers and different ways of thinking about how they market their product. but also just introducing fresh blood into the design team as well. And, you know, Deadflip did create that pinball machine of his own.
    64:45
    He'd been designing a whitewood for ages now. This is not that machine. But who knows? It may pave the way for him to actually get that design produced as a layout that Stern could potentially take or at least an adaptive version of it because it looked like it had some really interesting shots on it.
    65:07
    So who knows what the future holds for Deadfoot. I mean, he's put in a lot of effort up until now to get to where he is. So good on him for this opportunity.
    65:17
    Ultimately, it seems like what we're seeing across pinball in general, whether it be at Zen with these other independent or indie studios, is what I'm going to call them, as opposed to being the two majors with DJP and Stern. um a lot of fresh blood young minds uh doing approach and not just i mean yeah it's great jgp hired uh steve richie but it's also like steve richie's long in the tooth you know he's very set in his ways um and you're going to get a certain style out of him as opposed to bringing in people who are like, well, why do I have to follow these rules? Can't I shake things up?
    66:05
    So, like I said, it's interesting time that with pinball that obviously it's on the rise, big time, just based off the prices you can tell that.
    66:17
    We're having, like I said, at Zen alone, what is that, three or four new designers? Then you get somebody like, yeah, if you're getting Deadflip in there at Stern, I'm sure Stern has, well, they got Keith Elwin. who had come in.
    66:30
    Yeah. You know, you're bringing in fresh perspective, fresh ideas. You've got, with what the guys at Spooky there were saying, how they were like, you know, we had the basic layout for years, but that whole upper playfield thing went through like 100 different iterations. Iterations. You know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you think that Lawler or Richie would ever think to do, even if I'm not a fan of the upper playfield that they do, would they ever have gone there no so it still is a good thing uh you know to have this um it almost reminds me in in a sort of kind of roundabout way it's like with the halloween and the kaiju tables it's almost playing homage to um pinball circus um yeah it's stacked crazy play field hype thing.
    67:27
    I almost think that it's got a few nods to that concept game that's out there. This is a good thing. I mean, those mini playfields aren't super complex in what they offer,
    67:42
    but they still get the ball. It's still, again, from a player's perspective, you really feel like you've achieved something if you've got that ball up the top there, and you've actually gone through and done everything on those upper play fields like that is a really clear progression for you as a player and that's a that's a cool thing you know yeah that's why that's why i always say that i was i'm not a fan of ems because i'm a fan of multi-ball and ramps uh yes because i see ramp i want to hit ramp i see the possibility of earning multiple i want to see what that multi-ball mode is like. I'm going to go through lengths to try and achieve those things. Yeah, if you throw playfields at me, I do want to see what happens when the ball goes up there. You naturally want to explore it. You do. And see what happens when you get there.
    68:41
    It's good. I really do think they're onto something there. We'll see what happens. I think that we as primarily digital format for our program, what our focus is,
    69:00
    it's certainly we keep on seeing these inroads to how the real machines can come and visit us in the digital format. And I think that that's only going to get stronger as we go along. So we're trying to get Mel on.
    69:17
    It's scheduling. It's hard. He's busy. He's a busy guy. Yeah. And to that end as well, we are having more and more difficulties trying to line up as well. So it's tricky to try and get time. So that is certainly something that we're working on. And just kind of see if we can just have a general casual pinball conversation with Mel. Because I think all these things that we discussed today, a lot of it he'd be agreeing with us on, even though there's things that you'd have to obviously shut his mouth about.
    69:52
    Yeah. He'd have to clam up tight. I can't call it. Yeah. Yeah, so we'll see where we go with that. Hopefully that'll be coming up within, I don't know, I'm hoping within the next month, month and a half, that we'll have him on again. Hopefully, yeah. See where that goes.
    70:10
    Beyond that, okay, I hate doing this. Buzz has been bogging me. Bogging me? Bugging me. Bogging you. It's been bogging you. Bogging you. I'm in a bog about this bug.
    70:22
    So on our YouTube channel, folks, I really want to pass the 500 subscriber mark. We're at like 491 right now. We've been at that number for weeks.
    70:35
    Probably months. I don't know. All the same, I just want to pass that 500 number. So if you're a fan of our show, just do us the favor. Go ahead and just do the subscribe thing. you know us we don't bug you about this we it's not the first thing out of our mouths we don't have little animated things and all that crap that interrupt every five minutes um that's right just i'm just trying to push past that so even if you have to make dummy accounts go for it i don't care or you know if you're a more of a podcast listening prefer to digest this from an audio just jump over to the youtube channel and and click subscribe for us yeah uh and then not only will you get notified that there's a new episode out, you'll know that there's probably an audio one falling pretty shortly thereafter. So, you know, it would be good forewarning for you. So there's our rare pitch that we do.
    71:31
    But like I said, I watched that number and I'm like, just pass, just go past it, please. You know, we're not going to get one of those cool nifty little plaques anytime soon because that would be two more zeros was on the back end of the 500. So, we're not going to get there anytime. But, no, we have realistic expectations. We definitely have realistic expectations. We know the show. I don't know. You know what we should do, Jared?
    72:01
    What's that? We should do a true crime podcast based around pinball. Like, who done it or something? I don't know, because the true crime things are all the rage. Yeah, that's right.
    72:13
    There was one ball on the table. Could they murder the score? I don't know. I don't know how those things go. I don't listen to them. I mean, it doesn't help. I was just watching, there's a show with Steve Martin and Martin Short called Only Murders in the Building. And it's about, they were huge fans of these true crime podcasts. And then there's a murder in their building. And they were like, well, hey, we actually live here. why don't we try solving this and so then they create their own true crime podcast and fumble about doing it and i i can feel the the struggles when they were like we've got 11 fans um yes the struggle is real yes where i couldn't understand the struggle was when all of a sudden they got a sponsor who forked over fifty thousand dollars um yeah that'd be nice yeah we still haven't really felt that yet no no no that'd be a nice feeling to get though it would be we're happy getting you know early access to like the stupid table that we've had for the past week yeah that's nice it is nice it's very nice actually yeah alright that being said I think we're going to close this one out again thanks for your patience for you know letting my throat clear up and give us things to talk about in the meantime until yeah I think it's worked well you know what were you going to say I was going to say I think it's lined up well with the pinball show so we actually had some actual news news to talk about true that you know until then we'll contemplate what to talk about but I'm sure it'll be about one of these things Jared stuff and things until then buh-bye see you later