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Ep 20: The Boys Are Back!

Final Round Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 28m·analyzed·Nov 5, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Ryan C. praises Guns N' Roses as exceptional; discusses Celts' deep rules and fun factor.

Summary

Final Round Pinball Podcast Episode 20 features hosts Jeff Teolis and Martin with guest Ryan C. (Australian podcaster and Head to Head co-host) discussing recent game experiences. Ryan delivers an exceptionally glowing review of Jersey Jack Pinball's Guns N' Roses, praising its light show, animations, shot design, and overall experience as the best pinball machine he's played in years. The episode also covers Haggis Pinball's The Celts, which Ryan describes as having the deepest single-level ruleset in pinball with fun, accessible gameplay. The show concludes with a comedic "Slam the Steve Ritchie" game show segment comparing Stern's Star Trek vs. Star Wars.

Key Claims

  • Guns N' Roses has sold extremely well already.

    medium confidence · Ryan C. discussing post-release reception and market performance

  • The Celts will be the deepest single-level game rules-wise currently available.

    medium confidence · Ryan C.'s assessment after extended playtime with the game

  • Jersey Jack's animations are miles ahead of competition, particularly Stern.

    high confidence · Ryan C. making direct comparative statement about JJP technical capabilities

  • Light shows on pinball machines don't translate accurately to video streams due to auto-balancing and camera limitations.

    high confidence · Multiple hosts discussing Guns N' Roses and Melbourne Silver Ball streaming experience

  • The Celts sold well without having shown the final version at trade shows or having major IP licensing.

    medium confidence · Ryan C. noting sales figures based on conversation with Damien (Haggis Pinball representative)

  • Steve Ritchie is expected to be the next Stern designer to receive a game release.

    medium confidence · Jeff Teolis speculating based on pattern of recent releases from Keith L. and John Borg

  • The Guns N' Roses playfield features big, fat shots that are not tight/brick-fest prone.

    high confidence · Ryan C.'s detailed gameplay observations from hands-on experience

  • The Celts playfield has very responsive diverters that feed shots perfectly to the top flipper.

    high confidence · Ryan C. describing specific mechanical/shot feeding mechanics observed during play

Notable Quotes

  • “I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since playing, and I haven't had that feeling in pinball for a while.”

    Ryan C. @ early in episode — Sets the tone for extremely positive Guns N' Roses reception; notable because Ryan is known for black-and-white assessments

  • “JJP embarrass everyone with how good their animations are. It's embarrassing how far ahead they are.”

    Ryan C. @ during Guns N' Roses discussion — Direct comparative statement about Jersey Jack's technical superiority in animation/visual design

  • “The light show is something you can see in pictures and videos of, but they will never be able to give you the same experience in real life.”

    Ryan C. @ Guns N' Roses review section — Key insight about limitations of streaming pinball machines with advanced lighting; explains why firsthand experience differs from video coverage

  • “It's going to be probably the—I don't know, somebody can try and correct me if I'm wrong—it's going to be the deepest single-level game there is out there, rules-wise.”

    Ryan C. @ Celts review section — Major claim about The Celts' ruleset complexity; invitation for community correction suggests confidence but acknowledges uncertainty

  • “It is silly fun. That's what it is. It doesn't take itself too seriously.”

    Martin (Marty Robbins) @ Celts description — Summary of The Celts' design philosophy as accessible party game rather than tournament-serious machine

  • “I don't want to play another game right now.”

    Ryan C. @ Guns N' Roses initial reaction — Demonstrates obsessive-level engagement with Guns N' Roses; unusual for Ryan's typically measured assessments

  • “Streams don't do it justice. Light shows will never translate on video as they do in real life in a dark room.”

    Ryan C. @ discussing streaming Guns N' Roses — Core technical insight about pinball streaming limitations affecting audience perception vs. firsthand experience

Entities

Ryan C.personJeff TeolispersonMartin RobbinspersonGuns N' RosesgameThe CeltsgameJersey Jack Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Guns N' Roses has sold extremely well post-launch with widespread positive player reception; community enthusiasm already high

    high · Ryan C.: 'from all accounts, this game has already sold extremely well. So many people are raving about it'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Guns N' Roses features exceptionally well-designed shots that are large and forgiving without being trivial; not a 'brick fest'

    high · Ryan C.: 'The shots are big and fat and not tight. This is not a brick fest. I wouldn't say the game is too easy though.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Guns N' Roses light show represents significant technical advancement; 200-600 LED counts across regular/LE versions; not overpowering despite intensity

    high · Ryan C.: 'the light show is something you can see in pictures and videos of, but they will never be able to give you the same experience in real life... Regardless of the crazy light show, it is somehow not blinding'

  • ?

    design_innovation: The Celts features responsive diverter systems with precise shot feeding to top flipper; responsive orbits that feel excellent to execute

    high · Ryan C.: 'the way to feed it is to hit the right orbit. A diverter will pop up, and it will actually feed perfectly to the top flipper, and you can hit that shot on the fly'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: The Celts features exceptionally deep single-level ruleset with multiple rule paths selectable via clan choice; designed for competitive depth within accessible framework

    high · Ryan C.: 'it's going to be the deepest single-level game there is out there, rules-wise. I don't think anyone else has put that much thought and effort into the complexity of the rules for a single-level game'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.265

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. It's player versus player and player versus machine. Welcome to the Final Round.
0:58
not only is that bullshit i had so many people reach out to me saying i agree with you led zeppelin is shit and i had to say hang on i didn't say that i didn't say led zeppelin is shit i said stairway to heaven is shit yeah it's only like the number one song voted in classic rock history hey listen i don't come to you for uh music advice all right i come to you for australian takes of what the hell pinball is on that side of the world and i enjoy that so we are going to be music free on this program are we i actually i actually know that we're not but anyway but i've got a question for you yes sir when was the last time you had a three-way oh yeah ann's not listening i can tell you um 1999 well all I'm saying is dust off the cobwebs we're having another three way joining us we've got Ryan C g'day lads how you going hey Ryan when was the last time you had one no comment I think Ryan wins anyway how are you buddy I'm good things are picking up in Australia we're almost free to do whatever we want. But before we get started to pinball, I just hot off the press. I have a quick story to tell about what happened this morning. So I was dropping my kids off at school and I'm the type of dad who is just super unorganized and I'll forget something. I'll forget the kids like a book or to pack their lunch properly, the vitamins, whatever it is. Like every time I drop them off at school, I do one thing wrong. So I drop them off at school today and they're about to get out of the car. And I'm like, damn, I think I did it. And I look at my five-year-old's hair and I forgot to tie it up. So it's all messy. I'm like, damn. I'm like, do you have a hair tie? And she responds with no. And I'm looking, I'm like, there has to be one on the floor. There's a hundred hair ties in the house scattered around. So I'm looking around the car, couldn't find a hair tie. I'm like, I've got to MacGyver something together. So I open up the boot and I see my little pinball fixing bag with all of my tools and stuff. And I'm like, I've got to have an elastic band or something in here. I didn't, but I did find an oversized pinball rubber. I thought this is where it was going.

  • “The subwoofer they've got in there—and when you get multiple multi-balls and that music starts—it sounds so good. And I was sweating at one point.”

    Ryan C. @ Celts audio/experience discussion — Emotional/physical response to The Celts' audio design; praise for small manufacturer's technical achievement

    • Haggis Pinball
    company
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Star Trek (Stern)game
    Star Wars (Stern)game
    Steve Ritchieperson
    Melbourne Silver Ballvenue/event
    Keith Johnsonperson
    Eric Meunierperson
    Damienperson
    Head to Head Pinball Podcastorganization
    Final Round Pinball Podcastorganization
    Franchiperson
    Damien (operator)person
    Iron Maidengame
  • ?

    design_philosophy: Jersey Jack prioritizes maximum technical quality (animations, light shows) as brand differentiator rather than cost optimization; sets quality standard internally rather than relative to competitors

    high · Ryan C.: 'I think they're saying, "What is the best that we can do?"' vs. Stern approach of 'How good can we make this look without going over budget'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Ryan C.'s glowing assessment of Guns N' Roses marks significant positive sentiment shift toward game; community using Ryan as litmus test for quality

    high · Jeff Teolis: 'I was taken aback because I've never seen you be this glowing about a machine. And you're a bit of a litmus test for me'

  • ?

    technology_signal: The Celts successfully integrates playfield-mounted screen for shot guidance; players naturally learn to reference lower display despite decades of habit looking to backglass

    medium · Ryan C.: 'The lit shot can be seen displayed on the mini screen... It's going to take a while for me to look down for instructions, but I think more games should have it'

  • ?

    content_signal: Pinball machines with advanced light shows and animations do not translate accurately to video streams due to auto-balancing, camera sensors, and lighting physics limitations; firsthand experience significantly superior to video

    high · Ryan C. and hosts: 'light has to hit your eyes', 'auto-balancing lights didn't seem that way on stream', discussion of planned Guns N' Roses stream on Melbourne Silver Ball as real-world demonstration

  • $

    market_signal: The Celts achieved strong pre-release sales without showing final code at trade shows or leveraging major licensed IP; suggests player demand driven by game design quality and word-of-mouth

    medium · Ryan C.: 'to sell how many they sold without showing the final version, without having some IP that you know, little kids dance to, it's' [positive implication]; Damien figure indicates sales figures discussed

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steve Ritchie expected to be next Stern designer to release a game based on recent release pattern (Keith L., John Borg precedent)

    medium · Jeff Teolis: 'it looks like Steve Ritchie will be the next to give us a game from Stern. Kind of makes sense. He's probably next up. John Borg gave us one, and Keith L. won.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Australian pinball community gaining momentum with venues like Melbourne Silver Ball hosting streaming events and tournaments; Ryan C. noted 'Things are picking up in Australia'

    medium · Ryan C.: 'Things are picking up in Australia. We're almost free to do whatever we want.'

    • 3:31
    It was used, and my kids were just like, no, Daddy, no, please don't. And the school bell started to ding, and I've just sent you a picture in group chat of what I did. And I don't know if I'm the first person ever to use a pinball rubber and tie their daughter's hair. It actually looks all right. That looks good. Is it one pinball rubber or have you got three pinball rubbers in it? Yeah, I tried the one small pinball rubber and she was crying because I was like pulling her hair too much. So I got an oversized rubber, wrapped it around three times and she wasn't too happy about it. I haven't picked her up from school yet. We're recording just after I jumped her off. So we'll see what happens with that. Anyway, I just wanted to get that out there. Hilarious. Wow. Oh, darn it. Forgot your shoes today. Give me those Kleenex boxes. Those are fine. Come over here.
    4:22
    No one will make fun of you. Class. Dad of the year. Wow. Here's a trough assembly. Stick those under your feet and walk around on those. I don't know. Oh, Ryan, Ryan. Thanks for coming on the show. By the way, did we get Franchi's permission to have you on? Because I would hate to be called dickheads if you were going on his show. So are we okay there? Is that all right? I didn't ask Franchi. But he did ask me to come on the show before you did, so I probably should have asked him because Franchi is the gatekeeper. I guess so, isn't he? Yeah. Ryan, it's good to have you back on. I like having you on. I love hearing the two of you guys, kind of the old head-to-head days. Appreciate you coming on together. You guys have a great chemistry, and I'm here really just to fuck it up. The point of having you both on right now is because of something we're going to talk about in a second. you guys did the stream on melbourne silver ball for the kelts and that's a game that's obviously wonderful from haggis pinball we saw the expo video i saw it in january which was a lot different than the game i a lot of people saw in chicago expo so it's really come a long way we'll get to that in a second but that's kind of like two games in a row you've reviewed ryan because there was that one this weekend but even before that you actually got to play guns and roses did you see that martin i did happen to see uh an online review of it um and and i have had a side conversation with ryan about this because ryan obviously we've spoken a lot over the years and if you say to ryan hey have you played this game is it good i've said you know ones and zeros with ryan it's very black and white he'll go yeah it's great or no it sucks i've never heard him saying this game is awesome. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since playing and I haven't had that feeling in pinball for a while. I think the reason for this is the design team, as wanky as this sounds, has created a new experience in pinball. Do you want me to keep going, right? Oh yeah, keep going.
    6:26
    The light show is something you can see in pictures and videos of but they will never be able to give you the same experience in real life. I played maybe 10 different songs and the experience and the mood of the song sets is different on all. There's no copy and pasting going on.
    6:50
    Regardless of the crazy light show, it is somehow not blinding. That is bullshit. And I never lost track of the ball. The lit shot can be seen displayed on the mini screen and Slash and crew always have a call out telling me what to go for anyway. no no we're not even halfway done the shots are big and fat and not tight this is not a brick fest i wouldn't say the game is too easy though game times are not too long and not too short blah blah blah blah blah let's go the summary from all accounts this game has already sold extremely well so so many people are raving about it that it's natural internet reaction proportion of people to want to drag it out in the cloud where it's sitting as always pimple is personal we all like machines for different reasons make up your own mind when playing it but also make sure you have 15.5k before you do just in case. Ryan, I hope that Jersey Jack, when they heard that, they sent your daughter a bunch of hair bands.
    7:44
    Translucent as well. Translucent. Which is the in thing. It's an amazing game, and I haven't played it since. I have been able to get it out of my mind. I didn't play pinball for a couple of days because I just didn't want to play Jurassic Park. I've been obsessed with Jurassic Park, and I didn't want to touch it. I still want to play it again, and I will buy one. Eventually, I'm not sure if I'll buy one straight away or just wait for the dust to settle a little bit. Do you still think that the animations on the screen are next level? JJP are miles ahead of the competition, but this just takes it that step further?
    8:17
    JJP embarrass everyone with how good their animations are. It's embarrassing how far ahead they are. The thing is, they don't need to be. There's so many things on that machine that are so much better than other machines, but I don't think they need to, if that makes sense. Like, Stern are able to have pretty average animations. Like, let's face it, people are like, ah, Black Knight is this, and it's the best, and ah, it's like minimal effort stuff. It's like, how good can we make this look without going over budget? JTP is just, well, yeah, next level, as I said. As you did say. But I think the thing of it is, you say it's probably too much, but that's when you're comparing it with another manufacturer. I don't think JJP are. I think they're saying, what is the best that we can do? Yeah. So what's your point? My point is that... No, your point is you don't think they have to go that far, whereas they probably think they do have to go that far because they just want to set a new standard, not compare it to other standards. Especially with the frequency of games for JJP. Listen, we're not making fun of Guns N' Roses at all. We're making fun of Ryan. The Guns N' Roses game is freaking amazing. I'm dying to get my hands on that. It's just Ryan blowing his load all over that review. The point is, I think you're right, Martin, that they look at it and go, holy shit, we've got all these assets. We've got the lead guitarist designing the game with Eric. We can do anything we want. And if it costs a little more, the customer will pay for it because they're getting what Ryan saw. I did talk to Ryan actually the day he played it, and maybe you did too, Martin, and he was pretty glowing about it. Like he said, I don't want to play another game right now. We're kidding, and we're obviously ribbing our buddy here, but that's his real reaction as far as playing that game, that there's nothing else like it right now. Yeah, I just hope they're setting the standards high for themselves, as you said, Marty. I hope that it doesn't come at a cost that they don't need to have, if that makes sense. I feel like they just need to be better than Stern at a couple of things. But I'm saying they're so much better than Stern at a couple of things, like the light show and the animations, which is fine as long as it's within their budget, so to speak. I don't know if I'm making sense. I want them to continue on this path. I just don't know if it's sustainable because Guns N' Roses is that good. Well, so obviously I'm taking the piss because that's kind of what we do. But I was taken back because I've never seen you be this glowing about a machine. And you're a bit of a litmus test for me, and we'll get on to Kelts later, because I always know that I'm just going to get the black and white version from you. It's good because of this. It's bad because of that. And you just get the facts really easy. It's really easy to get the facts from you. Because this was so glowing, I was like, oh, okay. maybe this really is that good yeah Ryan's more wham bam thank you man but no not this time he put out rose petals he's got candles lit he's got incense going I mean he's really got this he went to bed big time with this all I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing which I probably didn't do is that I also don't want to put the machine up in the clouds that when you play it Marty you're like I didn't feel the same thing that Ryan felt so I don't think it's a good game but I have talked to people that did read what I wrote and went and played it, and they were like, I felt exactly what you felt. This game is amazing. Streams don't do it justice. And Marty, you might get to play it this week. We might get to play it this week. And that's the thing. You're going to get to experience what the machine is like in real life, and you can convey it and talk to the people that are on the stream, but light shows will never translate on video as they do in real life in a dark room. So you will do the best you can to convey how awesome the game is, if you like it. But the people that are watching aren't going to experience the same thing as you. Yeah, so hopefully this Wednesday night, Australian time, which is probably going to be before this podcast airs, but we are going to stream, hopefully, Guns N' Roses on Melbourne Silver Bowl. The day that game was released, the first thing I said when I saw the light show, and we had Keith Johnson on, and he talked about, I think, the 200 in the regular, 300 in the next level 600 in the super le or whatever jersey jack calls that what do they call that one the collector's edition thank you i said you know i don't know if any streams will really do it justice so you've seen it firsthand and as you had said to me ryan the lights are not a problem i mean it seems like it would be based on the number that you hear in there and and maybe just the way a stream looks but that'll be neat to see it on melbourne silver ball how it translates Yeah, I mean, and you messaged me, Jeff, during the Cal stream, and you said, oh, hey, there's a little part of the GI that might be out. And I opened up the stream, and yeah, it kind of looked like that. And then I looked at the game in real life, and it didn't look like that. Like, the game is perfectly lit, but on the stream, you know, with, like, auto-balancing lights, it didn't seem that way. So that's a mini version of the Guns N' Roses, not issue, but, you know, as I said, no one's going to be able to show exactly what it looks like because light has to hit your eyes. Well, I did like what I saw in the Celts game. It looked fantastic from Haggis Pinball. You streamed it, Marty. You played it. Ryan, in 6,000 words or less, give us your review of the Celts. No words with less than two syllables. Go. I have to preface it by saying that I'm mates with the guys that are making it. So I'm not going to say, even if I didn't like something and I'm unable to not like it because these guys are my friends. So like if I was best friends with Eric Meunier and Keith Johnson, you'd look at my GNR review and be like, ah, he's just friends with them. So I just want to preface it by saying that like I like Damien, I like Greg, I like Scott Seisman. I know them. They come to pinball meets and we have beers together. So my review, I guess, or what my thoughts are is the game has come a long way and I really feel sorry for them that they couldn't show the game at Texas or wherever they're going to fly the game to because if people play the game, they'll have fun and they will buy it. But they can't do that at the moment so they still watch us on the stream playing the game and it's fun, man. It's a fun game. It took me a while to learn the shots. I think the first three or four games that I had were absolutely pathetic. But the rules, it's going to be probably the, I don't know, somebody can try and correct me if I'm wrong or you guys can try and correct me, it's going to be the deepest game, deepest single-level game there is out there, rules-wise. I don't think anyone else has put that much thought and effort into the complexity of the rules for a single-level game. That doesn't mean it can be a successful game. Like, TNA is an extremely simple rule set. It just does one thing over and over again, but it does it very well. CalSTRS does a lot of things. There's... Marty, you can back me up here. There's so many different ways you can play the game. Yeah. and what I like about it is when you start the ball, you pick a clan and that clan will give you a boost, either multi-ball scoring or clan battles or the Highland Games. So at the start of every ball, you get to choose which way you're going to play through the game as well, which is very clever. We always used to talk, Marty, about when people play games, they want to know what it's like, because they'd like a comparison, like, is it like this, is it like that? in terms of rules, there's, you know, picking a character before you start. You know, you've got Game of Thrones, Star Wars, you've got that kind of system there. In Multi-Ball, there's a creature-style jackpot thing where you hit certain jackpots and then you need pop-bomber hits to get the super jackpot. A lot of thought has been put into the code. Can I say, watching the stream, and I watched for over an hour, the game even looks more different than when I played it in January. I know that January one was definitely different than the Expo one. And the thing about everyone playing the game is you could legitimately see every single person was having fun playing it. Is that not what you want in pinball? Absolutely. So when I was down there for two days before setting up the stream, because I took my big rig there, and Ryan sent me a note saying, is it good? And I just said to him, it is silly fun. That's what it is. It doesn't take itself too seriously. It's got that, obviously, the cartoon look about it. it's got the scottish highland theme but it's just designed to be fun and i've said this before it is a great party game one of those games where if you've got people you're playing against because you can understand the rules quite well you're never too far away from your opponent so it lends itself to be an instant competitive game amongst your friends i have played it so many times and people have attempted to explain the rules to me. And to be honest, I totally disregarded it because I'm like, oh, I don't really want to play a beta code version. So this is the first time I was stepping up to it properly and digesting the rules. But one thing I want to talk about is the sound. And I'm not sure if this translates as well on stream, but the subwoofer they've got in there, and when you get multiple and that music starts, it sounds so good. And I was sweating at one point. I know we're in a small, small confined room, but after multi-ball and I finally drained and it got back to the normal relaxing high-end music, I was just like, holy shit, like what a rush. That is amazing for a little company like Haggis to be able to produce that in pinball. It's really good. I did see you guys laughing a little bit too. And you were saying trying to digest things and you were playing it. Are you trying to blow it up? Are you trying to play it for competition or just have fun, which I think most people do when they play pinball? It's got some good pinball shots. Those orbits were awesome. Oh, yeah. When you can rip that left orbit three, four times in a row, it feels so good. Yeah, and there's a diverter up the top, and the ball actually diverts pretty perfectly. When the top scoop is lit for a super jackpot, the way to feed it is to hit the right orbit. A diverter will pop up, and it will actually feed perfectly to the top flipper, and you can hit that shot on the fly and it's so fast. It's kind of like the equivalent of hitting the upper spinner on Iron Maiden and then hitting a loop. That's the kind of feed you get. Is it safe to say, because if I were to step up to it right now, I don't know what to do. Okay, pick a clan, sure, great, fine. But once you get into a mode, it's so self-explanatory. First of all, you've got the screen also on the play field. I was having no problem following along. I almost have to retrain my brain to do that because I remember when I was playing Alien and I was like, what do I do? What do I shoot for? And I remember Marty was like, it's right there, like literally in front of your eyes. You get the ball trapped up. You don't even need to look up. Just look down. But it's something that, you know, I've been playing pinball for, you know, almost 30 years on and off. And I never look down for instructions. It's always up. Yeah, well, 30 years ago, you were staring at the strikes and spares back class. You weren't looking down at all. that's why i was so bad at pinball when i was a kid but you admittedly you got good at practicing with one hand oh what is that like a sound effect that you've got in front of you with a button or are you actually i have no idea what you're talking about no idea what you're talking is this is this why we don't have videos you have to hear this it's it's like it's like reaching around to um reaching around to turn a pinball machine on on a on a spike machine like how many times do you go for the the switch underneath where it's it's all the time because your brain just like doesn't work that way and that's what it's like for me looking at the instructions it's going to take a while for me to look down for instructions but i think i think more games should have it do you know what i found that game was reminding me of i don't know if people will make this comparison or not i doubt it but the flow of kelts reminded me a lot of fishtails believe it or not just the importance of i can see that there's no upper flipper right in fishtails but just the the lower horseshoe kind of reminded me a little bit of the boat uh the different shots you had to make you know the importance of the orbits and stuff i i don't know there was just i have a fishtail so i just kept watching it i'm like okay the playfield's nothing like it but just the energy and the need to hurry up things i don't know there's maybe it's not certain shots certainly reminded me of that and uh when i think of fishtails i think that is a simple simple game to learn but yet so much fun so it was less about the shots just the simplicity of being able to learn the game and having fun you'd mention tna i think of that with kelts and with fishtails well funny you say that because you know they at virtual pinball expo expo part of the presentation from Haggis was the Q&A that they did. And a lot of them mentioned how much they love fishtail. So maybe there is some homage to it there, I guess. But I'm glad to hear it from Ryan. As I said, my litmus test, he will always speak the truth. And as you said, because you're mates with him, if you didn't like it, you'd probably just go, yeah, it's good, and leave it at that. From all accounts, I had a chat to Damien. It is selling well. Good. And like the figures that I got were like before I know he dragged it to shows in beta form and stuff but like to sell how many they sold without showing the final version without having some IP that you know little kids dance to it a fucking you know like ah this little girl I was playing Stay Away to Heaven I chose the longest song and she asked me. There's nothing like that that's making people buy games, right?
    22:21
    You fucker. So. Hey, Marty, did you hear what this asshole did with Jesse Jay's Pinball Adventure last week? No, what did he do? Oh, best friend there listening to his friend's podcast. Okay, let me enlighten you. What happened was they do this little thing where they talk about what would be the shittiest theme for a pinball machine. And they've had things in the past like office space, Groundhog Day. But this last week, Jesse came up with an idea of kind of Australia 2.0. And Ryan's shitty theme was little Jeff Teolis getting excited to stairway to heaven by dancing with a girl. Thanks, Ryan. No, it's not just that. It's your entire childhood. It's people teasing you at school because you had no friends.
    23:07
    Just all of your lonely day. Lonely day multiple. It's got it all. What a dick. Oh, boy. Well, I thought that was a cute little game that you play. I don't know how the votes are going to turn out. We'll have to listen to the next edition of Jesse J's Pinball Adventure. But in honor of your stupid games, I want to bring back a stupid game. It was a head-to-head classic. So, boys, let me just tell you, you want to win this. Do I need to get my flyers up on screen? Is that what it is? I'm sure you've already got the flyers out already. Let's be honest. They're at your disposal right there, Marty. You remember the old show that you did that was a totally original show. It was never ripped off from any other podcast. It was called Slam the Top 100. I don't know where the word slam came from. I just random, I assume. We're going to do a different version. I will be the game show host, if you will. You will be the two participants. We're going to twist it a little bit because apparently, this is all rumors, no one knows for sure, but it looks like Steve Ritchie will be the next to give us a game from Stern. Kind of makes sense. He's probably next up. John Borg gave us one and Keith L. won. So, yeah, I think Ritchie's got to be next. So let's do Slam the Steve Ritchie. Okay.
    24:22
    Okay. All right. So we are going to each give you a game, and you have to give us 60 seconds to praise that game. Then the next person will do their game. Then you will each have 30 seconds to slam the other person's game. I have two games. Ryan, you're our guest. Pick game number one or game number two. Game number two, Jeff Deolos. Game number two, Ryan, you are going to be selling the praises of Steve Ritchie's Star Trek. Oh.
    24:53
    Marty, you, by default, get game number one. You get Steve Ritchie's Star Wars. How great is this? Star Wars versus Star Trek. It's like a battle that's been going on forever. Are you a Trekkie or are you a Star Wars fan? These nerds have been battling it out for years at Comic-Cons. Now we're going to do it in a pinball version with Marty and Ryan. Who wants to go first? Ryan, you're the guest. You can pick. I will go first, and I will talk about how amazing Star Trek is. Okay. 60 seconds on the clock. Go. Star Trek. Steve Ritchie's best design. Steve Ritchie is known for having a lot of original designs back in the day. And then somewhere in the 2000 era, he started to kind of hone in. And first he did Spider-Man. Absolutely amazing design. And then he did Star Trek. And side by side, they're very similar. But the difference is Star Trek has fatter shots, right? A lot easier to shoot. Probably the smoothest game ever made. and the repeatable warp ramp shot. There's nothing better than hitting the left orbit and coming that shot. You can start a mode and hit a nine-way combo to finish the mode, and it is that amazing. Light show, perfect alley model, very unique. Marty's favorite game. I'm going to be interested to see what he says about the game. Software, yeah, software is like a solid B+, but everyone loves a good shooter, and there's nothing better than Stern Star Trek. I rest my case. Okay, Marty, the game is Star Wars. Go. Okay. So first thing about Star Wars is the theme. How awesome is this theme? It is the dream theme of everybody. So already I've won because it's Star Wars. But also it's got an original John Williams music. It's got a 4.25-inch color HD center-mounted play field LCD display. That's a flyer. It's got color-changing LED. It's got a high-fidelity sound system. It's got the Spike 2 electronic system.
    26:58
    That's important to you. Yeah, I know. Go on. It's got an interactive, molded, exploding Death Star with nine LED super laser array and internal illuminated LEDs. Rest my case. It is a fantastic game. How does the Death Star explode? What does it do? It lifts up and it explodes. How does it explode? Like into multiple pieces? Yeah, of course it does. It's not two pieces that just crack in half, is it? It just cracks in half. Oh, okay. listen i don't want to be a judge in this i'm just curious but besides the flyer it's the shots are really really satisfying um it it looks great it shoots well it's got a great audio package as well it's a very very underrated game i know it's sort of a bit polarizing but it's just one of these ones that's just grown over time i love it now okay marty ryan went first to praise his game you will go first to take your shots at Star Trek. Okay, first of all, the shots are too easy. And Ryan has been probably the biggest critic of that, saying, oh, it's just an easy game to play. Second of all, the art is terrible. It is awful. And at the time, it just got absolutely panned by everybody. But probably the biggest criticism I have of it is that the rules are just a bit blur. Like, the modes just hit the colored shot. That's just a bit boring. So it's too easy. It looks terrible. No, it's a terrible game. Man, you're committed. I'll say that.
    28:25
    When you're in a contest, you are committed. So, Ryan, you're up. I assume he's never going to be streaming Star Trek again on Melbourne Silver Ball because it's obviously garbage. But anyway. The scariest thing about this segment is just the conviction in Marty's voice when you know he's lying. It's just like, wow, this guy is really good at lying. I don't know. When Marty talks to me and gives me a compliment now, I'm like, does he actually like me or does he actually hate my fucking guts? No, Ryan, that's not true. I think you're amazing and you have fantastic hair.
    28:59
    That is not true. You can't see on the Skype call here, but Ryan looks like, I don't know, pubes gone wild. I look like Cameron Diaz in There's Something About Mary. But instead of one handful, just an elephant-sized load in my fucking head. Bucket full all over your head. It's like you were hit with a mayonnaise truck.
    29:25
    Did you shit on Star Wars yet? No, no, not yet. There are so many things I can say about Star Wars. I've watched people play in public, and they enter the TIE Fighter mode. They don't do anything because it's not obvious. Moving the multiplier around, you know, the people that know how to do it, people that don't, it creates a massive divide. But instead of doing all that, I'm just going to read a message. And I'm renting pinball machines out at the moment, and I've never had a message like this. Usually it's like, hey, Ryan. 30 seconds is up. I've got 26 more seconds on my clock. Go ahead, Ryan.
    29:57
    I'm having so much fun. The kids love it. I love it. And this is a guy who had Iron Maiden, and he just was fucking obsessed with the game. And I've got this guy, single-handedly got this guy back into pinball, and then I gave him an array of games to choose. for his next hire and unfortunately he chose star wars and after one week this is the message that he sent me g'day mate it's damien with star wars i've tried and i've tried and i've tried but it just doesn't do it for me the iconic theme music with the orchestra does my head in turn the music off then it's the constant suffages to choose missions that video mode dodging asteroids fucking sucks you just start to get into it and then there's too much bullshit stop start stop stop, stop, stop, stop. Ryan, buddy, I just don't like it. I don't want to play it. And that says something because I fucking love pennies. Is it possible to change it for something else? I will pay you. Please, I just can't play this game anymore. He had like 40-something more days on his rental, and this guy was begging me, and I was like, I feel for you. Don't worry. This guy is willing to risk COVID-19 just to get it out of his fucking house.
    31:08
    Okay. Okay, I don't want to be biased here, but we will put that up to a vote, all right? Actually, screw you, Marty. I'll put it up to a vote. I'll set up the poll tab. Who won Slam the Steve Ritchie? Was it Star Wars or Star Trek? I've got to find some GIFs. I want to get the GIF. I want to do complimentary GIFs, so I'm going to get the GIF for Star Wars of that incredible explosion of the Death Star. It sounds fantastic. It is amazing. It honestly is. It just makes the game such a great moment. Do you want me to do a picture of the Death Star blowing up, or do you want the rejects from the backhands into the Death Star shot on the premiums and LEs? Your choice, Marty. Whatever one you want. You know, take your pick. But just with Star Trek, make sure you have a gif of every single shot being able to be hit every single time because they're so easy. I heard you slag the art on Star Trek because the art on Star Wars is outstanding, go on it is much better than Star Trek's art, that is for sure, and that's saying something so Gary Stern apparently, this is what people say he walks over people when not walks over, he walks up to people Gary Stern walks up to people when they're designing games and if there's a toy like Balrog for example in Lord of the Rings you know, it's that classic example where it's like well, make it come out. If you're spending money on this toy, make it come out. And Keith Johnson was just like, well, it doesn't really make sense. He's like, well, there's the bash the Balrog mode. And in other games it makes sense, like Deadpool. It's like, well, we've got this little Deadpool in a spring at this little area. Make it a couple of shots and give it the gimme multiple. So in Star Wars, was Gary Stern on holiday? Because in the premium and the alley, they've got this amazing hyperloop. Is that what it's called?
    32:56
    Well, is that the thing that blocks the flippers? It doesn't block the flippers. It never happens. It's like Getaway. It's so fucking amazing. People love when they hit the shut-in Getaway. It whizzes around. Woo, whatever. You can laugh at it, but people love that. And people would love that Hyperloop, but it's the tightest shut in the game. It never happens. It's such a fail. It's such a fail in design for that machine to go out, regardless of people that have it in their collection for a long time that say, anyway, my 30 seconds is up. I'm just ranting about Star Wars. It could have been so much better. You've still got five seconds. Are you sure? Oh, that was fun. That was good.
    33:35
    This is not a carryover to episode 19 at all. It has nothing to do with the last episode. And he's shitting on stairway to heaven. Anyway, the point is, it's good to have Ryan on the program. Ryan and Marty, I have talked to both of you in the last couple weeks about a show I'm in love with. I don't think it's ready to have a pinball machine yet, but God, if they ever do, sign me up right now. and the show is, which all of us have seen, is on Amazon Prime. It is The Boys. How great a show is that? Okay, so I've got to just give you a massive thank you because a friend of mine, Eric, you know Eric that streams on... So he was the one that said, you know, you really got to get into the show The Boys. It's really cool. I watched one episode and just went, nah, it's just not for me. And that was, I don't know, that was probably four or five months ago. And then I was talking to you during the week and you said, oh, my favorite show ever is The Boys. And I was like, and you went, no, no, no, no, no. Give it a go. Keep watching it. It gets better. And oh, my God, does it get better? There's jaw drop moments, like genuine jaw drop moments. But then there was also a lot of moments where I had to actually cover my eyes and mute the volume because some of the stuff is so graphic, I just didn't want to see or hear it. Ryan was early into The Boys. Ryan saw it a long time ago, didn't you? Not a long time ago. I think I finished up about two weeks ago. And I was really sad when I caught up because I was catching up to two seasons of The Boys. and it was like a daily thing where I'd watch one episode, go to sleep, watch one episode, have nightmares. And when I finally finished, I kind of sat there and I'm like, I don't want to watch anything else. Like I got into a really good routine where it was making me really happy and I was looking forward to watching this show. And all of a sudden I had to watch, I don't know, whatever junk was on Netflix. It's like playing Guns and Roses. You don't want to play Guns and Roses. I watched two seasons in three days. so i spread it out over a few weeks i never wanted to go more than two episodes a day because there was a lot to take in and we haven't spoiled anything nor will we we really want to endorse this this program it is the official program of final round and the secret word that they use in every episode last week we had zach on and he talked about the secret word well our secret word happens to be in the boys anyway that show is just there's just so much to take in i remember watching it with ann and and saying look let's give this a go everyone's ranting and raving about the show she's like superheroes uh i'm good i don't need to see that superheroes is just a backdrop it's not a superhero movie at all i said forget superheroes they're more like the mafia for crying out loud these are this is if superheroes were the worst people in the world and that's the premise then that's safe for me to say and go from there it is something to see absolutely watch it and season two i i made this comment after watching the first episode of season one i said to jeff i wish i could bring it up and quote it but there's so many messages that we have it will take me an hour to find it but it was along the lines of it's like after season one the producers sat down and said you know how we had all that extreme violence that made people feel really uncomfortable can we do a lot more of that in season two and your response was yeah they did and how and just a side note like i think seth bergen uh is listed as a director or a producer executive producer yeah so it is also extremely funny there are a lot of laughing moments it's not just all by guts yep it's funny it's the acting it's the story writing and god if anybody has the balls to make one of these pinball machines. Oh, spooky. Please, spooky. Spooky. I'll give you my money right now. What? It's not going to be ready for four years? I'll give you my money right now. Yeah. Do you know what? Besides the fact that there is a lot of swearing, a little bit, yeah, an incredible amount, just the premise of it lends itself to a pinball machine because you've got the superheroes and you've got the boys so you could potentially pick a side, but you've got strong visual characters that you could have as toys, as modes, as multiballs. I mean, we obviously know what the Switch Frenzy would be, like the Switch Frenzy in Sopranos, I would imagine. No, I think the Switch Frenzy would be fisting the gills, Switch Frenzy.
    38:21
    Yay. Spoiler. Yeah, okay. But, wow. I mean, I just think of Walking Dead and the multi-kills. And the multi-kills certain characters could do in some Switch-friendly mode all would be spectacular. Oh, to have the assets for that. And the reason I say, I kind of joke, okay, could this be a pinball machine? I'd love it. But you think they made Stranger Things off a Netflix show, and they basically made that after two seasons. They had all the assets. The fact they fucked up the game is a whole other story. sorry it just doesn't shoot well i love stern love stern they can't all be winners right every company's got one that goes not every hole's a goal gary stern was also on holiday when that was produced there was there was no standing over brian eddie's shoulder to to validate any of his designs hey again brian eddie has made spectacular games one of them's got to be his worst right so that's how it works but here's what i'm going to say i haven't i haven't played uh well i haven't played any other pinball except for the stuff that i've got at home and and now kelts in a very very long time but i know people that own uh strange things and they've said code has massively improved the game and we know that that can happen i always use the walking dead as the poster child of code making an ordinary game great people have said stranger things has now become a much better game through code and it's not just the demogorgon now being a bash toy a lot of other things in the code have now made it a much more enjoyable game marty you could have lyman's best code ever in a game but if the shots aren't there i'm sorry the shots weren't there with walking dead they they were they were there but the game was so brutal that you just couldn't enjoy it and they just they made the code more accessible so you could get into more of the game and therefore get used to the shots and get better at the shots in Walking Dead and I think that's what's happened with Stranger Things. I'm going to reserve my judgement until I get to play it again soon which I will. November 8th is when they're going to be relaxing the lockdown rules even more and I'll be able to travel more than 25km and go to somebody that's got a Stranger Things. This is the thing though Marty, every game from CERN it's never a throwaway game and games that come out that don't have good codes, eventually they improve the code and I think it gives you a false sense of like, oh well it's getting better and it's better and it's better but the base that it was built on is so low that it's never an amazing game and I don't think Stranger Things, I could be wrong and games like Guardians of the Galaxy and Star Trek which we all love, except Umani, it never has that X factor and regardless of it getting better, they're competing with themselves and there has to be But by default, there has to be amazing games. There have to be games that are a bit mad. They can't all be amazing because you're comparing them against other games that are better, like Jurassic Park. Okay, whatever.
    41:26
    Give me satisfying shots more than anything else, and the code will get there. You gave a good example of Guardians. Guardians, the code was terrible when it first came out. It got a little bit better, then it got great. Is it still outstanding? No, but it's good for most people, and myself included. but every shot on that game is great. I don't feel that way about Stranger Things, unfortunately. And, you know, when you've got... It's not even about the bash toy. It's about that left ramp and possible rejects and stuff. Every game has issues, right? I mean, when people first got Rick and Morty, weren't they concerned about that upper left orbit? And then they tweaked it, and now it's good, you know? But they changed the game for that. I don't believe they've done so on Stranger Things. I'll give you what I think is still criminal, that they haven't gone back to do code is monsters because monsters shoots extremely well it really does it just doesn't have the code that exploits its potential but now that game is so far removed from you know when it was released i know they probably can still manufacture it they probably aren't manufacturing because the demand isn't there and the demand would it be there if the code was different perhaps because you're right that is a crazy good shooter game but we knew that was all you were going to get in code dwight said that was it he wanted it simple you do it once you do it twice that's it but uh you know if he's gone if he's gone back to ghostbusters and he's gone back to game of thrones he can go back to this whether they're manufacturing it or not well i wonder if ghostbusters will be vaulted and that's maybe why i did it because it's certainly a theme everyone loves the art is great never know the code obviously has improved and People like the game a lot more with the recent code. So anyway. Who will win these awards for 2020? There's so many great games. And we're getting close. Now we're in November. People are going to be starting to talk about Twippies. Of course, you two guys created what I think is a better award, the Twippies. It was the best of the worst on head-to-head. It really was. And we were having this discussion recently saying, maybe we should have final round awards. We can tell people what we think is the best. So nobody votes. It's just us. To get that kind of endorsement from two veteran podcasters. And Ryan, you know what? If we have a split vote, we're going to throw you as the third guy to throw in the vote. We think that highly of you, but we don't want to do twerpies, Ryan. Twippies are already taken. We're final round. So I was thinking the roundy. So here you go. You get a roundy for best art. What do you think, Ryan? well I mean you only have two words in your name so I don't think the finalies the finalists the foundies maybe the reach aroundies I like that but how about the reach The reach Here you go Who wouldn want to win a reach The winner of Best Design, Keith Elwin, you get a reach-around.
    44:28
    You know what? He has not accepted one of his Twippy Awards. It obviously is not an award that means much to Keith Elwin. I mean, it's great to get that kind of accolades from people, but maybe for a reach around yeah he definitely would want to reach around for sure what do you think christopher franchi would do at the moment for a the best podcast reach around he would he's gagging for a reach around please please please any awards i want yes we take bribes so get in if you if you want to reach around if you're that desperate for a reach around we will make sure it happens for sure yeah these these votes can be bought not like any other award shows but these ones can be bought absolutely we should have an award for wanting to win an award more than anyone else that would be a good reach around wouldn't it fuck there's a few candidates aren't there what's that award going to be called is it the gagging gagging for a reach around award yes i think so i think so oh there could be some some good photoshop fun with this i think already on it we already know what the trophy's gonna look like ryan it is good to hear from you again i appreciate you coming on the show you know we're going to get you on every few episodes too it's always good to have you and marty back bantering once again uh i'm excited to see and correct me if i'm wrong you kind of talked a little bit about it and gave some dates but i thought i read australia has zero new cases of yeah i think maybe three days in a row now maybe for victoria so yeah so the lockdown has worked. It has worked. There's fear because now that we're able to get out of the home and everybody is out of the home. In fact, I caught up with Ryan at a bar a few nights ago, which just felt so weird. Even though I got in trouble for entering the bar, Ryan. Yeah, we made a booking for two because you can't just rock up to places yet because people are just... Everyone wants to go out. they still have capacity restrictions. So we booked for two people. It was late at night. I think it was 11 o'clock. I messaged Marty and said, hey, I'm around the corner from your place if you want to drop in. Marty rocked up. And what did the person say to you, Marty, when you walked in? Nothing when I walked in. But I sat down. And then she comes over and she goes, just want to let you know that we are now one person over our COVID limit. And there's a $30,000 fine. and you're now putting us over the limit. It's no big deal. Everything's okay. Don't worry. It's okay. But just wanted to let you know that you are now one person over and you should have come and seen us at the bar when you walked in, which I did. And that's when you got out your wallet and said, here's $30,000 on me, all right? Should anybody slap your wrist? We're not talking about my wallet, are we, Ryan? Oh, my gosh. I have to tell this story quickly. Marty's a stylish guy. You look at Marty dressed up. I mean, your sponsors speak for themselves. There's money rolling in. It's Marty getting it. Let's be honest. He's the eye candy of the show. I get it. All right. Marty, yeah, I think he looks well-dressed. Marty offered to pay for all of the gin that he drank the other day, and he took out his wallet, and it was the biggest. Have you seen that episode of Seinfeld? The Costanza wallet? Yep. The Costanza wallet. He has a fucking Costanza wallet. He has receipts from when he bought a donut fucking six months ago. He keeps it all. Marty has a Costanza wallet, and I think this needs to change. I think for his birthday, we need to buy him a slim wallet. I have officially, yesterday, emptied my wallet. So I'm back to normal. But here's the thing. You know when your wallet gets too big because it's in your back pocket. You sit down and you go, Frank, there's a big fucking pile of receipts in my back pocket. And I've just shifted my vertebrae. Because of this whole COVID thing, I don't have my wallet on me to know that it's getting out of control. Okay, look, I have a problem. Okay, I'm seeking help. I'm going to Costanza Wallets Anonymous, and I'm seeking professional help. So I should get through this. I know we're going to be putting up the poll, Ryan, for your Star Trek versus Star Wars battle between you and Marty. but we actually did just have a poll and we're almost done our most underrated pinball game and want to get your thoughts on it. Okay, round two. So we had Barracora versus Mustang. Now, Barracora was Jeff's nomination. Mustang was mine. Mustang got through with 60% of the votes. What do you think about that, Ryan? Mustang is a good game. It is like all the other games we've been talking about that was launched with average codes. and got better. And it's not in anyone, like hardly anyone has it. I'd love to see the numbers on how much that game sold because it is rare, very rare. Do you think it's a more underrated game than Barracora? I think so, yes. I think Mustang might, I don't know, it's too early to say that it might win this whole thing. Depends on what it comes up against in the next round. Okay, so the next one we had Batman Forever versus Alien Star. Don't fuck this up, Ryan. Batman Forever was my nomination. Alien Star was Jeff's nomination. Alien Star threw with 62% of the vote with its one shot. Oh, that's how good the shot is. I thought it might have been more than that. It's the power of themes, right? Batman. Oh, I love Batman. Just a side note, if anyone wants to sell me their Alien Star before Alien Star wins this thing, I don't want to pay inflated prices. Contact me. I'll even buy it from the US. I want Alien Star. Thank you. Did you get a Stargazer? I've had a Stargazer for, I don't know, a year and a half or so. it's just being restored it was getting cabinet restored so yeah I've got a stargazer I mean as soon as you get the stargazer then like well what's the next unobtainable game that you want and Alien Star never came to Australia I know of one that someone imported so it's all kind of like where they call it grey importing or you know just importing it after it comes out but none of them ever came to Australia Ryan when you played that with Ron Howlett at TPF back in 2018, you realized how great that game was, and much like Guns N' Roses, you didn't want to play another pinball machine after playing Alien Star. Am I correct? It's the power of a good spinner sound, man. And knowing that it's 50k a spin. Points, points, points, points, points, points, points, points. It's good. Alien Star, I think he even said it on this show, or maybe it was pinball profile. Hard to tell. He, by the way, four years going strong on that. Not like had to add that called it quits after two. Anyway, the point is, no reaction from Marty. Oh, I guess you can't hear a single tear. Anyway, do you want me to say something? Because it took us a year and a half to realize that we had a quality product. Four years, you're still going to find it. So, keep going.
    51:39
    Wow. Oh, what's that word they use in the boys every other line? Anyway, But anyway, Elwynn was saying that Alien Star was the game that won him the New York City Pinball Championship. I mean, because you're never out of it with a game like that. So next were both your games. So Demolition Man versus Jackpot. This is probably... When I was listening back to the last episode, it sounds like I'm saying Jackpot. I'm not. I'm saying Jackbot, just so you know. Demolition Man versus Jackbot. Demolition Man got through with 51.5% of the votes. closest we've had so far. Should have been the final. But that just goes to show, Ryan was saying, you know, Mustang might win. Well, it depends on what it goes up against, because Demolition Man versus Jackpot, I mean, we were discussing it on the episode and after, and I really couldn't pick between the two, because I think they're both great games. Well, look at it. It was a coin flip. What do you think, Ryan? Well, everyone knows my love for Demolition Man, but I love Jackpot as well, but they're just completely different games. I mean, one's a complete flow fest, The other one is just a risk-reward kind of game where you're not bricking shots, but you're hitting the visor, you're hitting underneath the thing, and it comes back. Completely different games. Did Sandra Bullock vote on that, by the way?
    53:02
    So the last one was the Sopranos versus NBA Fastbreak. These were both my nominations. Sopranos safety through with 71% of the vote. Right. NBA Fastbreak will always be like a bit of a black sheep because of all the things you mentioned last time, Marty, that the scoring kind of unconventional layout doesn't mean it's not a fun game. And if you're in Australia or if you're in Victoria and you want to play Sopranos, I believe, Ryan, you've got one to be rented. Is that right? Yeah, I will pick it up. Well, by the time this airs, I have it available to rent. And it's not in family mode if you want to rent Sopranos.
    53:36
    Do you know what we should do really quickly here while I've got you two on? I think of the Sopranos. It's a game with Stugatz, the boat. What is the best pinball machine with a boat on it? Is it Sopranos? Is it Fishtails? Is it Pirates of the Caribbean? We won't include them all, but what is the best game with a boat on it? Well, I mean, Fishtails, it looks like a boat, but it's just a decal. Pirates of the Caribbean surely would win on toy innovation. Like the fact that you can load a ball into a cannon and shoot another ship is absolutely amazing. But can you beat the fact that on Sopranos, when you get a ball in the boat, you can make a girl have a screaming super jackpot orgasm? Great. So the semifinals will be going up this week and you will be voting Mustang versus Alien Star. So Mustang being mine, Alien Star being Jeff's. And Demolition Man being Jeff's will go up against Sopranos being mine. It'll be interesting to see. Will one of us have nobody in the finals? That could happen. Or will it be Jeff versus Marty? It could. I'm looking at those. The way you guys are greasing up Mustang. Holy cow. Come on, GM lovers. Vote. All you guys who wanted Corvette to beat Mustang in the round one, come back. Come back. Vote Alien Star. All right, Ryan. I know you want to get out and go to the beach and pick up your daughter from school. She's in the principal's office crying right now with her hair, yeah, with a used pinball rubber in her hair.
    55:16
    Was it a black one or a white one? Because that does make a difference. It's black. So you can't see the dirt. It's fine.
    55:23
    Gosh. All right. Thanks, buddy. We'll look forward to hearing you on Jesse J's Pinball Adventure. Thanks, Marty and Jeff. See you later. Say it with a little more. You sound like you're crying there. He's worried about what's going to happen when he picks up his daughter. I can understand. Yeah, probably. See you, buddy. Thanks, Marty and Jeff. See you later.
    55:46
    No, no, you don't need to add Ken Laffer. That's not the show. See you, Ryan. Yeah. There we go. There was Ryan C. I don't need to ask you what we learned. Nothing. We learned nothing. We learned absolutely nothing from Ryan. So thank you for nothing, Ryan. Hey, 20 episodes. They're not all going to be winners, all right?
    56:09
    But I've got to say, it was because we're now out of lockdown, I've now been able to see Ryan in person twice. It's just so good to be able to catch up with him. Yeah, it was nice to see you guys at Haggis Pinball and the entire staff there. Very, very excited to see Kelts. Really, I knew a lot of people bought the Clan Haggis and that kind of package and supported Haggis in that way, But when I heard Ryan say that some games were sold, that's good, and I'm not surprised. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going well. They're very happy with the response. You can go to YouTube and look up Kelts Pinball stream. It's on the Melbourne Silver Bowl YouTube page. So the whole stream is there available for you to watch, including I had to fix up some audio sync as well. Just a weird streaming thing. Just sort of midstream, the audio was out by about a second. so I had to fix that up in post. So it's now uploaded and I've fixed some of it. Is Melbourne Silver Bowl sponsored? No. They're not. Well, don't worry, Marty, you're getting your paycheck because we are here at Final Round. It's time for our sponsor of the week. Here in North America, school's been on for a couple of months and the kids are back with their big backpacks. And, you know, you can get a lot in those backpacks, but they're kind of cumbersome and, you know, they wrinkle your clothes. Don't you think, Marty? Absolutely. But you and I, we carry wallets. Well, when we have wallets, sometimes you put a little too much in there and, you know, it can break at the seams. Have you ever had that happen? No, I've never had that happen, Jeff. What solution is there to this problem? Lucky for you, Marty, it's the Final Round Fanny Pack. Oh, thank God. Yes, you can hold all your gin receipts and submit them later to the TPN for reimbursement in your Final Round Fanny Pack. You know what else goes in there? What? What goes in there, Jeff? Do you have a Walter Day trading card, perhaps, Marty? Well, yes, I do, Jeff. I got one last year. Well, I just got mine, so I think they would fit well in the fanny pack. Absolutely. They would fit particularly well if you happen to give one to someone who then denies ever receiving one. My wife, by the way, backs me up. You never gave me one, you son of a bitch. I gave you one. I promise you. This is the Spots of the Week. Don't fuck it up. It's the flat-around pinball fanny pack. That's what we're trying to sell here, for God's sakes. I can tell you now, if I had a final round fanny pack, I would be able to fit enough of my trading cards that you would always be able to get one, no matter where I am. Do you know the origin of the fanny pack, by the way? No. You tell me the origin of the fanny pack. How dare you? Here I am in Canada. You're in Australia, and it was invented by an Australian widow. Her name was Melba Stone, and she was inspired by... What do you think? A fanny? How about the pouch of a kangaroo? Thus, the final round fanny pack. Act now and we'll throw in a kangaroo ball sack.
    59:09
    There you go. Oh, cashing in these spots of the week. Thank God. I cannot wait for my official final round fanny pack to arrive. You know, we were talking about swag last week, shirts and shit. I think a fanny pack would be badass. Would it? No. Yes, of course it would. the final round, the official fanny pack. Absolutely. So, buy it now. Yeah, that was Melba Stone. It was the one who invented it, 1962. You went to school with her, didn't you?
    59:38
    We're not proud of everything that comes from Australia. We're not proud of Mel Gibson. No, but we all have our own assholes in every country. Again, you've got Canada as well. You're not proud of everything from Canada. Are you proud of Celine Dion? Are you proud of Lake Beba? There you go. You made a joke about kangaroo or lake kangaroo, whatever it is, which actually exists. I know. I can't believe it. There is a Lake Bieber. Whether it's actually named after Justin Bieber, we don't know, but I'm going to assume that it is. There you go. So Canada sucks. By the way, The Boys, the show that we love, is filmed in Toronto. Just thought I'd point that out to you. I got Josh Sharp onto it, too. There are good things about the show as well. Okay, so the good news for you, the last two weeks, thank goodness, And maybe, maybe, maybe we are turning a corner in certain parts of the world, but lockdown has been tougher in some places, not so much for Australia. So you've been able to be out and about in Australia over the last couple of weeks. Yeah, that is true. I know where you're going with this because you're going to therefore assume that now that I'm out, I'm going to be more drunk than I have been previously. Is that the case? No, no, not at all. I would never, never think that. I actually drink more at home, usually because when I'm out, I drive. I don't like to do Uber or public transport. So I drive everywhere. So I've got to be responsible when I'm out. Can I tell you how much Marty hates public transport? When I was there in January, we were going to, I don't know, downtown somewhere, the casino. We saw certain, I can't remember where we were going, but I didn't realize that the public transit in Melbourne was free, or at least in the downtown area. Is that correct? Yeah, the trams in the CBD, we call the Central Business District, are free. so marty is on the public transit and just the disdain on his face i snapped a billion pictures oh fuck you can guess they're going to be showing up on the final round facebook page you're damn right i didn't know when i would be able to use them but i'm posting them now baby just look at how disgusted marty is i did not know you did that oh yeah no i don't have a problem with public transport but you know i like the comfort of my car yes so i also like the music in my car so i like to drive everywhere zeppelin obviously not every kind of music but you know cardi b wap has been on rotation the last couple of weeks oh what a classic you know all kidding aside we actually have a lot of similar tastes don't we we actually do but someone did make a a comment on our post about that. It kind of, it is the thing that we, I would say we argue the most about mainly because we are both so much into music so there are going to be some things that we like and some things that we don't. The biggest divide obviously is that you are more into rock music and I am more into electronic music. So if you look at the Venn diagram the middle bit that overlaps is not quite large but when we do find something that we both love, we enjoy that moment. Case in point, Two Tribes by Frankie Goes to Hollywood. The first time I suggested to you, I think this would be our final round theme. It kind of reminds me of the old head-to-head feel. And it's actually one of my all-time favorite albums, Welcome to the Pleasure Dome. And I played it for you and you're like, absolutely. That was the first choice we came up with and we both loved it. Yeah, isn't that funny? And I remember when you were in Melbourne and we did that big drive around the mountains really fast in my car. and I played you the 13-minute version of Welcome to the Pleasure Dome. It was such a good moment. Yeah, that was pretty cool, especially at the high speeds. I mean, I said a lot of Hail Marys. I'm not going to lie.
    63:20
    So did I. And I was driving. Yeah, yeah. Jeez. That was fun. So anything else in the last couple of weeks? I know you had a dinner with friends, the bar with Ryan. And, yeah, it's kind of nice to be out and about. Our friends in Europe, especially Britain, I mean, they're in major lockdown. We're seeing it here. And by the way, I want to point out, we are recording this. It is Sunday night for me, Monday morning afternoon for Martin. So when this comes out, the U.S. election will have happened. Whether there's been a decision or not, hopefully, when we're praying to God, there's no civil unrest. But I don't know if you heard this, Marty. Walmart originally pulled guns off the shelves because they were worried about reactions to the election. Jesus. Yeah. Yep. It's a divided nation. that is so again our wish is that whatever happens people just accept what's happened whether you like it or not just somehow come together just come together seeing people at each other you know whether it's stern versus jesse jack yeah because that's the biggest war at the moment but just i don't know somehow let's find some common ground and be people once again It's been a weird four years, and I say this because of the divisiveness. And to me, I don't care what you voted. I really don't. I know who I would vote for. First of all, I can't vote. I'm Canadian. I know who I want to win. And if you are different than me, that doesn't mean, oh, we can't be friends. That's the dumbest thing ever. I don't expect anybody to have the exact same opinions that I do. And people are so divisive, like, I can't be friends with you if you like this or if you don't like this. Fuck, I can't make that hardline decision. I can't do it. Yeah, as I said, it's not my country, so there's not much I can do about it. But we're all watching. As I said, whoever gets in, good luck to you. Just try and bring people together. That's all I want. Plus, people are probably a little tense, too, because it's not just the election, but it's coronavirus, right? I mean, you are now relaxed. You've seen what it's been like the last few weeks. Do you know what would have happened this week? Do you know where it was supposed to be this weekend? No. probably very likely at the sanctum for the 24-hour battle that takes place over daylight saving time right okay now i say that that's where i was the last couple years maybe i would have done it one more time but now that i'm thinking about it for future years i don't know if i can do it again could you do something like that well we obviously have that up at a netherworld in Queensland and I don't know. I don't know. I could do the 24 hours. What I just fear is how I would feel after the 24 hours. I think that would just wreck me. I am obviously of a certain vintage and I don't think that my body holds up like it used to. So I probably wouldn't. Death by pinball is what it's called here and I think it really would be death by pinball It is definitely rough right after that because you kind of get your second wind I seen people try to take little power naps How do you take a 10 5 power nap Some people can do it I'm sure meditation would help. But the first year, I don't know. It seemed to be okay. Painful, as you mentioned, right afterwards. I think Jack Danger did a 24-hour stream once, and he was rough for three days after. And I was like that, too. And that wasn't even a stream. that was just playing pinball and being able to sit down, not nonstop talk like Jack did.
    66:47
    So I did it last year, and last year I hit the wall hard with like five, six hours left. And then you're so tired you can't fall asleep afterwards. And in my case, I had to fly home. So 24 hours became really 44 hours probably. Pain.
    67:06
    It's funny you should mention Jack Danger because that's the comment that keeps standing out for me is He did his 24-hour stream, and then I was watching streams after, and he was talking about what his body went through. Admittedly, on his stream, he didn't sit down the entire time. It was his choice to stand up for the 24 hours. And he was just saying his legs and his feet, it took a week for them to recover. Yeah. No, I think my 24-hour days are done. And that's not a knock on the tournament because it's fun. It's a great place to sanctum. But it's tough to do. It really is, and I think those days are done for me, the 24-hour aspect, because I know what it's like just for a normal tournament, and that would be your pump and dumps. Another thing that would be coming up this month would be Free Play Florida, and that's kind of a late November event. And you can rest. You don't have to play nonstop, but it is a pump and dump, and you can play as much as you want, and usually the more you play, the better you do, and that will help your scores. So if it starts at 10 in the morning and you can qualify until midnight, that's really 14 straight hours you can do it. You're probably stopping for a bite to eat, but you're in queues, so there's a little bit of downtime, but it's a grind, grind, grind. And that's day one, and then there's day two, and then there's another day. It's just, I look back since it's been a while, since we've done tournaments, and just think of the physical grind of some of these events. You've been to Pinburg. That is really well-timed. You know when you're going to play, but you're standing up a lot of times, the hard cement and whatnot, and it's a couple days of that. Yeah, it's amazing what we do for pinball. Correct. Well, we've actually got an event coming up that had originally been cancelled, but now that Australia has really done well with the virus and being able to get on top of it. So Pinfest happens in Newcastle every year, and Newcastle traditionally was the home of pinball. That's where Hankin came from. Newcastle is about two hours north of Sydney so Pinfest is on and that's on the 21st and 22nd of November and it's interesting they're limiting it to 70 people and they're doing multiple sessions per day so they still will be able to get people through but in a more restricted capacity which is a good way of doing it Was it more of a show, an expo type thing than say a tournament? Well yeah, the first time I went which I think was probably about four years ago. They did run a tournament at the time, but now it's just a show. That's kind of neat. I mean, if you can kind of bring people in a few hours at a time, bring in an ex-group, you know, you reserve your times. You can social distance. I assume masks will be in place if it's indoors. Yes. You know, that might work out for the vendors as well and the participants. Fingers crossed. I hope it does. Yeah. I mean, they're doing social distancing rules, so you can only play one player game. so you can't play multiplayer games. So, yeah, I think they're doing it well. I had mentioned that to a few friends of ours, well, you know, Jim and Dina Lindsay of JDL Pinball, and they're in Germany, and Tobias does a lot of tournaments there. He's the country director, and he does a lot at the wonderful place in Fulda, but they don't do the one-player game, and I was kind of wondering why they don't. I mean, when you're competing, it's kind of nice to go back and forth, you know, player to player, or four-player game or two-player game, but we have to make some changes in 2020. Why not just do one-player games? I think that's a good compromise, you know, with what we've got in front of us now. Correct. So there you go. Pinball is starting up again here anyway. Yeah, and it has been doing well online too. I know you participated in a little competition. You probably have a few more cracks at it too. Tell us what you're doing with Carl D'Angelo's Pin Clash. So thank you, Jeff, for giving me a nice little nudge to enter the tournament. So the Pin Clash tournament is going to be an online head-to-head tournament that, as you said, Carl D'Angelo, i.e. Pinball, is putting on. We are going through the qualifying phase, and I did do a qualifying round. It wasn't a great score. I think what you've got to do is to qualify. I think 35 people have registered for the tournament. Only 24 can go through. And so now everybody is streaming their Escape from Nublar times, and it's the top 24 times we'll get through, the top eight get a buy my run on my first night was three minutes 38 which is not considering some of the the times that i'm saying i think the best last time i looked was about two minutes 15 seconds so i i look today uh there are two people under two minutes and uh escher lefkoff and raymond davidson and that is tonight as of sunday night so yeah you might want to get back to it and by the it's 43 people that entered to get into the top 24 so you might want to have a couple more cracks at jurassic yeah i've got i've got i think three weeks to do it i'm currently sitting in 15th yeah so you know it's all for fun for me if i get through i do if i don't i'm okay but i'm streaming anyway so i might as well just try to get some some good scores the beautiful thing about well just this tournament and the way we're qualifying is, you know, when I was streaming, I had these runs where I was really close to getting a mid two minute score, which would have been obviously amazing. And I had two shots to go and then just absolutely bombed and missed it. What that does is it says, oh, I could probably do two and a half minutes. So it keeps me going. So that's just the fun of it. Did you feel a little bit of that competitive adrenaline in you knowing that, okay, I got especially because it is a timed event. Did you kind of feel that rush that you once felt in tournaments? No, not really, because... You were drunk.
    72:56
    Well, besides that, no, it's more like, think about the qualifying for Pump and Dump. You know that how you know you've got to get your score up. But you've got another chance. But you've got so many more chances, so you don't feel the pressure on that individual game. Until the last few hours, you know, that... That last hour, that's when you're probably going to feel it because you're right. Pumping dumps, I never feel like, oh, I've got to do it here. Whereas the pop a ticket format or what we see it in this, yeah, there's always pressure. Yeah, that's right. What is your best time, by the way? I had no idea. I cannot remember. I think it's low three minutes. So I think maybe three minutes, 10 seconds, which right now would still have me in 15th. The next time up from me is 3 minutes and 12 seconds, and then 3 minutes and 4 seconds from Derek Price. One thing I do like, and it doesn't matter whether you have a Jurassic Park Pro or a Premium or an Ellie like you have, Martin, Carl has done certain setups to make them all kind of equal. Well, that's right. I mean, the main difference, well, particularly with Jurassic Park, there's two main differences. One is you've got the dinosaur that moves, and the raptor pit or whatever cage whatever it is is a different mech but with the escape nublar challenge it behaves the same on each machine so you don't get the barrier that comes up and it doesn't lock the ball and come back so it really is the premium and the pro is having the same experience so well chosen so that's pin clash i think the qualifying is done mid-november and the big event in december so we'll watch for that with carl d'angelo's ie pinball on twitch that's going to be a lot of fun and it's amazing to see how many streamers there are there are a lot but i also believe that you're more involved in this as well is that correct i will be doing a little something with that uh kind of what i do if i was at a tournament really talking to some of the competitors so yeah that's gonna be neat for me doing it from a remote standpoint i can do audio but now they want me to do video covid hasn't been nice to me let me be honest i haven't cut my hair in seven months it's not a good look i know we've all seen it why do you think i do podcasts all right yeah exactly i can fake the voice wow that guy sounds clean cut but let me tell you my highlight of the last fortnight and it is as recent as yesterday i have seen one of the best videos i've ever seen and think you know what i'm talking about and this is pinball in slow motion wow oh m god it is just spectacular there have been a few i mean we noticed it because of the variety that we saw at pinball expo we talked about punchy the clown how we enjoyed that little stop motion thing, what we saw in Spain. And, of course, Todd Tuckey's been doing great videos for years and years, a lot of humor and little inserts here and there. Jack Danger did a good job at Stern. Everybody, all the Zoom calls. But this, my goodness, this is something. Videos are really stepping up. There was the Tilt Pinball show as well too, but I like what we're seeing, a lot of creative people out there. Yep. So if you want to see this, the YouTube channel is The Slow Mo Guys, the title of this video is how a pinball machine works in slow motion and the machine that they're doing it on is willy wonka i mean there's so many things that i was just surprised by one is how much the ball travels in the air you really can only see that in in slow mo but the other is when the flippers get to their upright position how the actual rubber around the flipper actually comes off the flipper bat and you can't see that unless you're playing it in slow-mo it happens so quickly so guys watch this video is what i'm saying it is just amazing just the the video quality the audio quality the fact that they take you on a journey of the ball going into the plunger lane going around they take you on almost like they're following the ball as it's going around the machine cutting to all these different scenes it's just oh my god it's amazing the separation like you said on that flipper bat. I've put on super bands before. I know how hard they are to get on. I can't believe there's that much separation once it happens. But yeah, it's really cool. Great videos. Everyone who's doing these things. Now, this is an email that just came in. By the way, if you want to email us, it's finalroundpinball at gmail.com. You can also reach us on Instagram.
    77:43
    Finalroundpinball podcast. Fuck, are we? Final Round Pinball Podcast on Instagram, which is right off the tip of your tongue. Yep. Just do it now. Final Round Pin. Please go to it now so I don't have to repeat it ever again. Final Round Pin on Twitter. Final Round Pinball Podcast on Instagram. Sorry for the lack of consistency. We want to hear from you because when we do, we respond immediately like we did with Greg Silbey. Absolutely. We responded straight away. I'm looking at it now. July? August? when is this email? 25th of August. Listen, we've been busy, all right? Our Gmails were in lockdown. What did Greg say? So Greg said that he loves the show. So that's all I really read until I went, yeah, it's great. I know. That was all I needed too. No, really what he was saying is that he's excited to hear that I get excited about Excel sheets and graphs because he does too. And so he was asking himself some questions about pinball and he said, with no one else to talk to during lockdown here, so he was talking to himself, which is the greatest year in pinball, which year was the most prolific, and why isn't Game of Thrones Pro in the top ten? It's his favourite game. He said, so since you've been running a bit short on your podcast times recently, he says, I mean, come on, where are the gripping four-hour marathons that Head to Head used to put together? Forget it. No, no, God. He said, I put some stats based on pin side and thought I'd share with you, in case you ran a material on your show, it's got a graph and everything. He said, more jokes at Ryan C's Genitals expense, please. Easy. My little pecker, my little pecker. Of course, Greg, we just saw, I hope you saw it, with Haggis Pinball, with him doing the great code. So he really likes Game of Thrones Pro. That kind of makes sense when you look at choosing your clan. Why is that? Oh, yeah, yeah, I guess so. I think somebody made a reference on your stream too, actually. Right, okay. But the thing with Game of Thrones really is you've got to pick your house at the start of the game. This is more like Doctor Who, where you pick a different doctor at the beginning of your ball. But it gives you different skills. Like it might help you with video mode or it might help you with multiball or multipliers. Yeah, I think one of them makes clan battles easier. One makes the Highland Games easier. One gives you greater jackpots in multiball. Where do you think about Game of Thrones pinball and the pro specifically? I'm not a fan of the premium or the LE. I definitely like the pro. I like the speed of it. You and I both like Steve Ritchie games, but the code that Dwight did recently to change it, I liked it before. I like it even more now. Game of Thrones is one of my all-time favorite games. There you go. Said it. And it's funny because the layout is kind of simple. Really? Yeah. I mean, it's a Steve Ritchie, so it does what it says it's going to do. Three dropped harbors on the bottom left. You've got a few stand-ups on the right, a bunch of orbits and a couple of ramps. One little bash toy that is certainly important for the super jackpots, but compare that to, say, a Keith Elwin game. You're not going to find an orbit shot on Keith Elwin games, or not so far anyway, really. Maybe upper orbits, but not the long ones that go left to right or right to left all the way around. But that's what makes the Steve Ritchie games Steve Ritchie games. The importance of those shots, the speed, the flow. I don't know. It's just one of those things where I think the sum of its parts are greater. I just think that I love the code on it. I loved the code before they put the new code in, so I was already ahead there. I just think the code integrates really well with the layout. Are you a big video mode guy? No, not at all. I mean, I like some video modes. Indiana Jones, I love Fishtails. I think Lethal Weapon 3 is kind of funny. But when a video mode is just, meh, like Game of Thrones, why bother? Unless they were planning on doing something else. but I mean people shit on the art but it's the video mode I mean it hardly ever happens but it's just like why bother everything else is like fun it's fast it's yeah I again I think you could take out that video mode and it would be marginally better but the thing about Game of Thrones and a lot of people don't do this one of the most fun modes slash multiballs is winter has come multiball everyone thinks that when that winter has come or winter is coming thing happens It's a bit of a, you're just in the way. But if you actually go for all of those shots and then you qualify for Winter Has Come, it's a really, really fun multiball where, and if you don't hit your shots, your flippers start going funny and they freeze. It's kind of cool. You know what? I don't even know if I've ever done that. Yeah. When I had it here and I was streaming it, I used to always, always go for Winter Has Come multiball because I just found it so much fun. Good game. But let's go back to, so what Greg has done is he's done a bit of a spreadsheet that talks about rankings of games and how many games came out. And just to give you some stats off the top of my head on what I'm looking at. So 1980, there were 23 games that came out. I know Gottlieb used to do one a month back in the EM days. I think this is from 1977 onwards. So solid states onwards. Yeah, so 1980 had that many games released. The next was 1995 with 19 games. Really? Yep. Think about that and then how quickly after that they just all disappeared. Correct. Wow. Then you've got 81 with 18 games, 79 with 18 games. But then he's also ranked it based on average pin side rankings per year, which is really interesting. and the year that's got the highest average ranking, admittedly, it's only with three games, 2013. Hmm. So what came out in 2013? I hear you ask. What came out in 2013? Wizard of Oz? Was it that year in ACDC? Yeah, let me have a look.
    83:53
    It's a great spreadsheet. I'm opening it right now. Holy cow, Greg, you guys were in lockdown. Yep. Tron, Avengers, Wizard of Oz. so maybe Avengers brings it down a bit. No, no, no, I tell a lie, because that was Avengers The Pin, so that was the little, the home one. Oh, yeah. I know a guy who owns one. I've never seen those ones, because it was Avengers and Transformers, and they were pretty much the same pin. The detail of this spreadsheet, I know we're not really giving much across on a podcast, but you're a spreadsheet guy. How long would this have taken? It would have, to get all the data, would have taken a while, and then some pivot tables. That's sub-time as well. But basically what he's saying is also then there's a count of how many games each manufacturer has released since that time. Bally with 80, Williams at 71, Stern 58, Gottlieb 46, Data Race 24, Sega 17, Stern Electronics 14, and then it goes down to some of the smaller manufacturers. I'm blown away by this. Yeah. So the reason why it's taken us so long to respond to this is because when you look at this spreadsheet, it goes... There's four tabs with 400 lines each. Yeah. So, I don't know. Greg, if you're listening, which I know you are, I think we could make this into a bit of an article. So, I think we should do some sort of editorial around the games, the manufacturers, and put some graphs up there as well. I think that's a great idea. It'll never happen.
    85:24
    No, I'm saying this while I'm saying Greg to do it, not us. Yes, yes, that's exactly what we need to do. We're not doing anything. No, absolutely not. We do a show once every two weeks, and it's begrudgingly every time we're like, oh, fuck, are we going to do this thing again?
    85:39
    And then we see the paycheck from the sponsors like, hey, yeah, we're ready. Yeah, we're definitely going to do it now. Here we are. This is good. This is what we live for. We actually do. It is fun to talk to you, Marty. It's, wow, 20 episodes already. Yeah, I know. Pretty impressive. Which is 40 weeks. So we're nearly going to be doing this for a year. Did you think when we started it would last this long? Did you see an end date to it? No, not at all. I knew that it would last because, and I think we've mentioned this enough, that in between episodes, even before we were doing this podcast, we spoke nearly on a daily basis and we still do. So it's just like, well, we're recording whilst we're having a conversation. so I knew it was going to last because we never are short of something to say. Here, let's peel the curtain back a little more. Many times when you and I do a show, we don't type out show notes. We don't type out our questions we're going to ask our guests. It's all, we might have a few written down like a couple of point form things here and there. I have no idea what you're going to say. You have no idea what I'm going to say. And the one kind of rule we do is when we have a guest is just make sure we don't kind of ask two questions in a row so that we don't trip over each other. and it's funny that we just get, you know, I think when we first started out, it was a little more structured. So anyway, the whole point of me saying this is we asked Ryan to come on. He goes, are there any show notes? And you and I both laughed like, what the hell are show notes? Show notes. I remember those. Well, we used to have quite extensive show notes for head-to-head because we were reading out the news of the week. So we had to make sure that we talked. But with us, I don't know, I guess probably because we talk so much, I just look back at our Facebook chat log and go, So, oh, yeah, don't forget to talk about this. I know it's going to come as a crazy surprise to everyone listening right now, but our sponsor of the week was just off the top of her freaking head. Oh, how dare you? It's not true. No, no, no. No, I mean, sorry, pardon me. We were paid. That company that's been trying to send us those fanny packs have been knocking down our doors for weeks. They gave us typed copy, and we said, no, no, no, let's come from the heart. Let's make it more personal. Any jackass can read a commercial. Anyway, that's what I do for a living. Anyway, the point is we can talk sincerely about our love for the final round fanny pack this week's sponsor of the week. Thank you very much, Marty. You know what? We made it through the whole show without shitting on stairway to heaven. It's been a good show.
    88:05
    I think all the wounds are mended now, and I'm glad lockdown's over and hope everyone's safe and sound. Again, not knowing what's going on in different parts of the world. We just are thinking of all of our friends everywhere, and thanks for listening. Thanks, everybody. We will speak to you in a fortnight. which is two weeks. My name is Geoff Teors. My name is Martin Robbins. Thanks, everybody. Stay safe.