Triple Drain discusses CLE Pin tournament experience and chaotic James Bond pinball reveal.
Summary
Triple Drain Podcast Ep 24 covers the hosts' experience at Cleveland Pinball Expo (CLE Pin), where Travis competed and took second place, and discusses the James Bond 007 pinball reveal by Stern. The episode explores tournament format concerns (particularly tiebreaker selection and reverse-order finish incentives), tournament strategy insights, and confusion around the Bond game announcement, including leaked/mock-up images showing potential mechanical score reels and speculation about a $25,000-$30,000 price point for a rumored 60th anniversary limited edition.
Key Claims
The Cleveland Pinball Expo used a random number generator for tiebreaker game selection rather than seeding advantage
high confidence · Joel and Tom describe Neil losing a tiebreaker on a random-draw tiebreaker format at CLE Pin, contrasting it with preferred bus driver selection model
Travis finished second place at CLE Pin, losing to Carlos in finals on Attack From Mars
high confidence · Travis confirms second place finish; hosts discuss Carlos's 8 billion+ score on Attack From Mars in finals
James Bond 007 images leaked from 007.com or 007fans.com, found via Google image filter searches by pinball community members
high confidence · Joel describes pinball community members using Google filters to locate high-res images on James Bond fan sites
Keith Elwin confirmed in a stream chat that leaked James Bond cabinet mockup image is inaccurate, particularly regarding button/coin insert appearance
high confidence · Joel reports Keith Elwin appeared in Pinball Network stream chat, subtly indicating the leaked image is not final/accurate
Keith Elwin revealed mechanical score reels will be used in the James Bond 60th Edition, not digital display
high confidence · Joel states Keith Elwin directly told him 'score reels are mechanical' and there will be mechanical score reels in the backbox
Free Play Florida tournament format uses reverse-order finish for game selection, which incentivizes players to intentionally lose
high confidence · Joel and Tom discuss Free Play Florida format where last-place finishers pick the next game, encouraging strategic underperformance
Stern delayed initial James Bond Pro run from April to first run availability, adding confusion to the release timeline
medium confidence · Travis mentions initial April Pro availability was later deemed inaccurate by George Gomez on Facebook
A pinball news video shows James Bond gameplay of approximately 6-8 minutes with a score over 1 billion
Notable Quotes
“I hate taking second place though... I've never won one that's like in the fields Joel.”
Travis Murie@ 10:25 — Reveals competitive frustration and identifies Travis's goal of winning a Storm Pro Circuit event
“When everybody has the opportunity to play the same games over and over and over again you get dialed in to the bounces to the tilts to understanding where all the shots are.”
Travis Murie@ 10:59 — Explains tournament strategy depth and why players become increasingly skilled at specific machines over multi-day events
“It's been weird... bumpy... there's a lot of customers out there that are very confused just because it hasn't been the normal reveal.”
Travis Murie@ 26:21 — Distributor perspective on chaotic James Bond announcement affecting customer clarity and sales messaging
“The score reels are mechanical like they there are going to be score Mechanicals.”
Keith Elwin (relayed by Joel)@ 21:51 — Direct confirmation from designer about mechanical score reel implementation, contradicting mock-up image assumptions
“Does that look real?... look at the start button and the coin insert buttons... they're blank.”
Keith Elwin (relayed by Joel)@ 21:09 — Keith Elwin's subtle indication that leaked image is a mock-up, not production-ready cabinet
“You don't want to see anybody literally throw in their hat like I'm done with this game... I'm purposely sucking at this game so that I have an advantage next game.”
Joel — Identifies the perverse incentive structure in reverse-order finish tournament format
event_signal: Travis Murie finished second at Cleveland Pinball Expo, defeated by Carlos in finals on Attack From Mars after dominant qualifying play on Quicksilver and Corvette
high · Travis: 'I hate taking second place though... I've never won one that's like in the fields' and hosts discuss Carlos putting up 8 billion+ on Attack From Mars
?
leak_detection: Multiple high-resolution James Bond cabinet images leaked from 007.com/007fans.com prior to official reveal; community used Google image filters to locate additional mockup showing mechanical score reels
high · Joel: 'they literally messed around with the filters on Google... they were basically searching for photos... from the 007.com or it's like 007fans.com' and describes 40th anniversary image leak
?
announcement: Stern officially announced James Bond 007 pinball on Thursday with high-resolution photos (Pro/Premium/LE versions) and brief video content, followed by Stern Insider podcast with George Gomez
high · Joel: 'it was officially announced... Thursday... involved was a bunch of high-res photos and a pro feature a premium feature at an Ellie featurette'
?
design_innovation: James Bond 007 will feature mechanical score reels in the backbox instead of standard LCD display, confirmed by designer Keith Elwin
high · Joel: 'Keith actually reached out to me later he's like the score reels are mechanical like they there are going to be score Mechanicals'
$
market_signal: Community speculation on James Bond 60th anniversary LE pricing ranges from $25,000-$30,000 based on used Elvira 40th Edition secondary market pricing ($20,000+)
Topics
Tournament Format Design and FairnessprimaryJames Bond 007 Pinball Reveal and Announcement ExecutionprimaryCLE Pin (Cleveland Pinball Expo) Tournament ExperienceprimaryLimited Edition Pricing and Secondary Market DynamicssecondaryDistributor Perspective on Game ReleasessecondaryMechanical Score Reels in James Bond DesignsecondaryCompetitive Pinball Strategy and Player Skill DevelopmentsecondaryCode Quality and Post-Launch Updatesmentioned
Sentiment
mixed(0.55)— Generally positive about tournament experience and community (CLE Pin, UK Open), but frustration with James Bond reveal chaos, distributor confusion, and tournament format issues. Travis expresses competitive disappointment with second place. Excitement about Bond game mechanics tempered by uncertainty and potential high pricing.
Transcript
youtube_auto_sub · $0.000
network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right I think we're good yeah Travis you're pointing you can hear me Travis you good please don't act like you can't hear me of course I can hear you Joel we just did sound checks before we even hit it but I just I would not put it past you Joel dude you're in the comfy too man I'm ready I'm ready we're ready to go I'm in the zone tonight let's do this wonderful Tom you ready [Music] Tom I'm glad you're ready man appreciate it um well yeah here we go we we we're three guys foreign triple drain well you know I I gotta give it to us you know we've oh crap Travis what I see your hands in the air Joel what is going on I'm not muted I'm not muted I know you can hear me okay Tom and I we are freaking fired up Tom's brought the sound board uh we danced during the intro and you're just sitting there with your arms crossed just like staring uh just keep it up just keep it a professional no like no what I was noticing was I looked at the time and it's 9 29 we said we're gonna record at 9 30. somehow the three of us all showed up at 9 22 with working equipment we had the shortest pre-show conversation we've ever had oh I get it I understand now why you're yeah you're upset you didn't get to make fun of me for like 15 minutes before we started recording Tom and I really just want to start recording without you and now you're showing up on time you're actually ready to go I don't know what's going on but 24 episodes Travis I'm glad you finally figured it out so congrats man yep thank you okay all right well um yeah last time we recorded the three of us all recorded in the same room you know um Travis was ripping them on my bed um it was it was good it was he was eating physically eating on your bed yeah yeah crumbs Galore no it was a good time Cleveland was a good time that what was funny is we recorded everybody left I was still awake I was like I'm gonna start editing this and you know when you're immediately listening to a conversation you just had I got about halfway through and I'm like what am I doing it's 1 30 in the morning so I stopped woke up the next day finished editing it that day which was a Sunday morning and I think um Zach actually had it uploaded like later that day which is pretty awesome so Props to Zach for doing that that was a good time it was a good time recording in person um the audio quality sucked but it was it was still an enjoyable experience props to raid a for just showing up at the hotel and and there we go and given his two cents and then uh I mean holy crap how long and then Monica I forgot I had to hit the button again yeah Monica stole the show right at the end um so way to bring her into that there Travis so yeah hey that was your mortal enemy apparently last weekend yeah are you gonna congratulate Travis well I was just saying this now that that's thank you Tom that was Saturday night I appreciate it that's why you're my favorite one I know yeah I'm top three so son yes you are Sunday rolled around and um yeah me and and Tom we're we're just there to be supportive and had a great have a great time uh Neil was still in it Travis so we're talking about CLE pin this is the the Cleveland pinball Expo there was a tournament there uh Travis had made finals Neil um Neil got out what first round but so he went in unfortunately yeah he got out what was strange about that is he was actually driving the bus but he was in a tiebreaker with uh Shannon Stafford hey Shannon uh but uh the weird thing is in that tournament is you're basically your tiebreakers you you don't get to pick it's just random draw so kiss got picked Neil was like well okay but I would have picked something else and then he ended up losing yeah I remember that there was a few tie Breakers and I remember that even the day before there was a tiebreaker and everybody was surprised like wait what you know not the highest seed the high seed isn't picking it's they literally ran a random number generator It sped out a number and they're like oh you're playing turtles so um yeah I mean I could I could see that for something where you know the tournament is random draw the entire time but you know when you're the bus driver you should be the bus driver yeah at a herb at a herb event especially if it's a storm pro circuit event I would much rather have somebody be the bus driver because they earned it they they played skillfully the whole time to get there and they deserve to have that advantage so to me yeah I do not like the random number generator but not taking anything away from Shannon because he played amazing you know I'm just saying the the format so just you know that way you don't end up on Cosmos right right for people considering running tournaments you know it's just something to think about in the future well Tom isn't free play Florida they're still running from my understanding because we had a bunch of competitive players yeah just text us this past weekend or maybe right before this past weekend talking about the free play Florida format right so it looks like apparently they're still going to do what they did last year which is it's reverse ordered finish so Joel what that means is if you take last in your group you get to pick the game the very next time I try to like even the playing field every round it's just well yeah and it just doesn't make any sense because it encourages you to actually lose like you you might have to actually lose on purpose I've been in a tournament before to where after winning the first game and I had a bad first ball I was just like why is there any point to to playing this out and trying to scratch and Claw my way to a second or third place when I could just go ahead and just wait and just get my game pick for game three and so I mean there it looks like they're going to do this again it is but at the same time though the ability to be able to pick your game because you're picking that game because you believe you can win that's I mean that's the reason why you're picking it so it's just kind of one of those things that I'm very surprised that that format is still going to take place again and so just like Tom and I were talking about a second ago with Lee pin I mean it's if you're the bus driver let people be the bus driver but whenever you're in a herb event I I personally don't see any value in making It reversed order finish because then it's just you know to me it's just you you take away hours upon hours of qualifying you take away any incentive to be a bus driver you take away any incentive to really be a high qualifier you know because they're still incentive to even if you're not the first seed in your group to beat the second seed in your group since you usually get to choose you know your position next yeah so I remember we talked about this on a previous episode that I doubt you ever want to be in a tournament where you're deciding whether or not you want to play well or not you know if if it's if it's in a if it's in a situation I mean yeah you don't want to see anybody literally throw in their hat like I'm done with this game like I'm purposely sucking at this game so that I have an advantage next game like that just seems kind of counter productive but no I there was a lot that I learned not only participating in the tournament but also watching the tournament and one thing that I've always been impressed by when watching tournament streams was in my mind I'm like how are these guys so good at these games you know they're just they can just step up to these games and they just know the shots that can just play them what I totally didn't take into account was Travis you're playing you're you're in finals on Sunday you got there Thursday so essentially from all day Thursday all day Friday most of the day Saturday you're playing the same nine games over and over and over again so you guys are learning that game you're under saying that game so it's not like you're walking up fresh I mean you you know that game uh you know over the course of playing it so many times so that when finals comes around it is very clear you know if Carlos Carlos was had top seed we know what Carlos is going to pick based off of the killer scores that he was putting up on Attack From Mars while Travis you had the number one spot in Quicksilver for days so it's like okay if Travis actually had the choice to pick a game he's probably going to take Quicksilver because he had the number one score that nobody was able to beat until the very end that's a that's a whole nother thing but I that's something that just from an outside Observer I didn't realize I didn't realize it is very clear that normally as the days goes on everybody gravitates towards certain games that they become more comfortable with you guys know this so if you're picking against another you know particular opponent you're probably gonna do you want to pick the game you want or do you want to pick a game you know they don't want and there's way more strategy there than I than I think I had ever given you guys credit for so that was pretty cool but hey I gotta give it to you Travis come Sunday you know Tom myself Neil we're all just observers Monica we're all rooting you on watching and um yeah you made it really far so I don't know if you want to kind of I don't know talk about that but yeah your Sunday experience I mean it was fun in general I hate taking second place though that's uh I think the second time this year in the storm pro circuit event it took second so I've never won one that's like in the fills Joel it's totally in the fields like I really want to win very badly but you know the reality is is Carlos he just played outstanding I mean yeah it's like when you walk up and you are at like 8 billion on ball three on Attack From Mars and you're in third place yeah at the time it's like okay you know everybody there can play at that point anybody that makes finals can play but especially just like you were talking about before when everybody has the opportunity to play the same games over and over and over again you get dialed in to the bounces to the tilts to understanding where all the shots are I mean it it makes for a very fun and competitive environment it makes it a lot more fun knowing that you have to blow up a game more times than not in order to survive that format because yeah if you're playing a match play tournaments random random draw everything you may not have to blow something up because then oftentimes people are going in cold they may not know the balances you know what have you but when you're dealing with tournaments like this it's and you could even see this if you watch the UK open and I think this even happened at a pinball at the lab which was interesting because that wasn't a herb but at the same time they've got to play those games and so you get to know the balances you get to get to figure out what you want to do and so yeah it just makes for a much more fun finals in in my opinion and and I like that I like the atmosphere of knowing okay this player is picking this game because they believe they can win at that game and the rest of us got to try to play catch-up and you know that's that's what's fun about it that's what makes competitive pinball a lot of fun well what I thought was fun was come Saturday when you're like I've got to get in all of a sudden you shifted to Corvette you were just focused on Corvette you're like I gotta get that up so all of a sudden you just are playing Corvette and you blew it up like you blew it up and you're like done I'm done let's go to dinner I'm good so I thought it was funny that come the next day it was like you just dominated on Corvette any time that you guys played Corvette you just blew it up and it was just one of those like okay don't mess with Travis on Corvette got it just like Lowe's was blowing up attack from Mars you know everybody starts I don't really honing in on certain games which is pretty incredible it it's one of those things too and Tom can attest to this that qualifying you realize that you have space to make mistakes like it's okay you can re-cue and I myself I made a crazy tactical mistake all weekend long playing the way that I did in qualifying I talked to some other people about this about the the choices I was making and just basically how my Approach was I decided to change it up a little bit now I'm going to go back to the way I did things originally because it it cost me it cost me getting into Classics and then it cost me a great position in Maine to where I was down towards the bottom so I don't want to do that anymore but Tom can test this that after qualifying when you get into finals then that's when you have to turn it on because you got no more recues you got no more voids you have to put up a score and you have to be strategic you have to be skillful and you have to understand where you want to go with the game you know you understand what the game is going to to give you at that point and so you know what your plan of attack is going into there and oftentimes it might shift too if somebody puts up a crazy ball one yeah it might shift a little bit but yeah that's what all goes into it that your mindset just changes and you want to get the win well I mean now that I'm a tournament player I totally understand what you're saying I can really relate to you and I mean My Oh My tournament experience yes it is me verse all the other people but it really it just felt like it was me versus the game and every time that I finished I was just like I can do better and so you want to buy another ticket you want to try again and sure I was comparing numbers specifically against Monica I just picked one name that I knew that was on the list that I felt like I could pass and it was I mean it was a lot of fun but I'll be very curious next time I have a chance to play a tournament and actually go head to head because for you to have an amazing you know Ball 2 on Corvette now every now all of a sudden everybody is changing and trying to adapt to try to and it's you are I mean it's you versus game but it is very much you versus the other people so congrats on the second finish I think it is funny Monica had finished third the night before so I know we were joking around it's like he better he better finish third or above or it's gonna be a weird ride home so I mean wait well done sir well done yeah yeah thank you kind sir I appreciate it yeah for all the for all the listeners no I was tipping my cap oh that's an aggressive tip yeah you know I'm an aggressive guy Joel you know this I I apologies to all the white Knights out there for Joel Rogan I was not meaning any violence towards him just now oh no I'm still worried about yeah we're still so okay we've had a lot of conversations about that the reality is we enjoy poking fun at each other we understand though that we should let the other person finish with her saying before we interrupt with our hilarious quip you know because I know we're also witty no no all those out there keeping score at home I know some of y'all don't realize this but read the titles to our podcast yeah they're all they're all hilarious most of them might be at your expense but they're all hilarious exactly you know typically what happens is I edit the podcast and I'm like I want this done I want it out and I take all of about 10 seconds to think of an episode name so if you the two of you want to you know submit a thought you know towards the episode title oh listen I may not type it in but I'll listen thank you I appreciate it so there we go so clip in it was an amazing tournament experience I you know congrats to Carlos I mean he blew it up he had a great weekend it was a lot of fun really cool seeing those people and shout out to Chuck war and his crew streaming the thing it was it was fantastic so just all around good time yeah we got to mention uh this weekend was the UK pinball open and uh what a freaking amazing tournament Neil McRae put on in in London we're gonna give them some Applause right now there we go there we go unfortunately I had not had a chance to watch that but that will be something I will have on the third monitor this week as I uh as I work but it should be a good time so moving right along to number two James Bond the Bond 007 we still don't know the exact the official I don't think we know the official name of the game but it was officially announced so I know we discussed this when we were at Cleveland it was announced that that Thursday the Thursday later and basically what the announcement involved was a bunch of high-res photos and a a pro feature a premium feature at an Ellie featurette and that's it we don't have any other you know we don't have anything else from Stern no announcement on um on when the game will be streamed um there was a Stern Insider podcast that was a good time listen to that highly encourage that but um yeah it's been weird it's been like from you know for Tom and I it's been one thing like how interested are this game is this a game that I'd potentially buy Travis has been a whole nother experience now that you work for a distributor this is is this your first game reveal since you've been with the pinball company yep so what how was it that now being on the other side how'd that feel stressful these past couple weeks it's been really stressful just from the um I guess the initial release getting delayed and then all these leaks getting out and then you know not really having it doesn't feel like we've had an official I guess an official reveal you know even though it technically was just because everything's just been so discombobulated this whole entire time like my camera going out yeah no signal there he is but no so it's yeah it's been interesting um it's just it's one of those things that it's definitely it's it's been bumpy let's just put it that way and so we're we're just kind of like all the other dealers just kind of waiting back and seeing okay you know they put it out there that the Elwyn game is coming but we don't know what it looks like besides the one leak that got out and I say leak I don't even know if somebody grabbed that from the James Bond website or if they released it you know I I'm just I'm so confused at this point with what's what that I'm just in a set and wait and let's just see what ends up coming out next apparently Google found it like I there's some there's some smart people on pinside but they literally messed around with the filters on Google and found a way to like they were basically searching for photos on I think it's 007.com or it's like 007fans.com or something that's where the first two high-res image leaks came from of the pro and premium and they were just messing around with filters and all of a sudden boom there's there's a picture of the Keith Owen 40th game now or 60th game now what I think funny is I was doing a stream so this came out on a Wednesday that Wednesday night on the pinball Network I was doing every other every other Wednesday I do a chatting stream and we're we're gonna go in and talk about Bond well like an hour before we started that chatting stream that picture shows up so we're all just trying to wrap our heads around it and we're really like is this for real is this and from what I heard it's like yeah that's they pulled it straight from the site that they pulled the other the the other photos from so here we are in my stream chatting about it the it was me Craig Bobby Hottie with Frisco pinball and Dave Dennis so the four of us were all talking about Bond and we started saying a few Con well one of the things in in the podcast that the stern Insider podcast that they announced Gomez was talking about having score reels in the backbox and we're like okay that's crazy scar reels score railed manual score reels in the backbox yes well this picture you're looking at the picture and it just looks like a standard Stern cabinet and then in the little LCD screen it showed on the LCD screen score wheels and we're like are these are they literally making digital score reels like what is going on well then out of nowhere I look over in the chat and whose name do I see I see Keith elwin Keith elwin has appeared in our chat and he said he said does that look real and then he's like look at the start button and the coin the coin insert buttons I was like what and you look at the photo the start button is blank and the coin insert buttons are blank and it's like he goes does that look real and so that was kind of a straight from the straight from him basically like he didn't say it but he was basically saying like this is not I don't think the the image is like [ __ ] slap by Keith Elwin I think he just yeah right direction and he's basically what I'm guessing is that's a mock-up I totally think it's a mock-up so I don't know if we can trust the artwork I my guess is and and Keith actually reached out to me later he's like the score reels are mechanical like they there are going to be score Mechanicals so I don't know if if that means the entire backbox is going to look different or if they're going to stick to the standard form factor but instead of having an LCD monitor they'll have something else physically in that same spot to show the score reels don't know but I would just say the one photo that's out there that is going around it's I I know for a fact it's not 100 accurate and that's straight from Keith Helen which is pretty incredible so I don't know with that said though from I mean where are you guys at with that are you guys I I just it seems like a lot of people I mean they want anything and everything Owen so are you excited about it but also because of the worry of the price point are you trying not to get your hopes up too much or I don't know what are your thoughts on the Keith Ellen 60th game I'm I'm excited one of my friends is getting one okay do you is that a fact like you know for a fact somebody's that is a factual fact okay is District 82 getting one or is that no God no all right all right they got to keep police force yeah I I think I'll be out on the 60th Edition just because of rumors of price thirty thousand dollars or something I mean yeah it could be anything yeah I I mean it sounds like there's no set price for it right now yeah from my understanding but uh you know I I think this is going to be very Elvira of 40th Edition yeah NFL viruses are going to be all over the board but there's I saw right now on Facebook right now there's two new inbox elviras that are set at like 20 plus 20 000 so your twenty twenty one thousand dollar even used so if if that's a bar I mean I I think there's good chances Owen game is going to be 25 I mean I don't know Travis from a distributor standpoint are you like how do you even I don't you don't have to go too far into it but it's like how do you sell the game for a hundred thousand if I could okay okay I like money Joel so there are three three Stern Pros for an Elvira 40th Edition well yeah it's it's a good game the thing is the price the pricing for the next L1 game that's coming out that's the 60th anniversary we honestly we have no idea we there's no information yet or anything like that I'm sure that information will start coming out soon enough whenever they uh they reveal the game in full but I mean right now we we have very little information on it besides that it's obviously probably going to be pricey I mean if there's not that many units and it's a 60th anniversary and it's being touted as the fourth tier of this game or the fourth version I guess you could say I mean yeah it wouldn't shock me if that price point does push above twenty thousand dollars that being said I have no clue what it looks like nothing more than what you guys have talked about here yeah it's crazy and I would say I mean the the reveal came out on Thursday and what did they really do I would say the videos it was great seeing high-res pictures it was great seeing you know some high-res video and and seeing some of the shots and it answered a few questions overall and then we actually saw the Le I think the Le I really I like the colors that are used in that the powder coating is cool but it was a surprise that that that gold finger is not was not the game so it but then in this turn Insider collect the connected podcast George basically was like well depending on sales maybe maybe gold Goldfinger would happen so everybody's hearing that they're like all right they're gonna do just like Elvira 40th Edition where a year down the road boom here's another Le version that's gold gold it's like are they and so people are already annoyed or upset about that even the the concept of the potential of something like that but I don't know I know I'm not I mean I'm just kind of a I'm I'm hoping Zach with flipping out it's going to get me a pro that I can stream I'm looking forward to playing that Tom I know you said you're in a pro from Zach yeah we're gonna route it at Lumberjack Johnny's there you go so and then I mean Travis you're saying they're selling but it's it's been a weird reveal it's just been a weird weird reveal I mean here's the reality of it it I firmly believe right now there's a lot of customers out there that are very confused just because it it hasn't been the normal reveal and so those of us that are firmly in the pinball Community online just you know consuming all of that we're we're kind of more in tune with all right this isn't the normal Cadence of the way that Stern puts something out it just feels like there's just a lot of bumps right now and everything so when you're trying to Market this game to people outside the industry it's kind of I don't know it's kind of strange because you know it's like hey here's the game it's been revealed but hey the game's not going to be be available for you for a few months from now and now that it all sudden went from well home buyers wouldn't be able to get their Pros till April to all of a sudden now it's been slammed back up to the first run so yeah well it's just yeah it's confusing and there's been and I could understand uh some people's complaints out there that they're that they are confused with what's going on because you know there's a fourth tier game coming they don't know when they're going to get their Pro they don't know when the premiums will be out they don't know if there will be another delay you know it's just it's a crazy time right now and this isn't this isn't the normal release that we've seen before and that much is apparent so my only thing is is with James Bond me personally I I don't know the theme at all like I I've watched maybe now two or three minutes on YouTube of what James Bond is nice so so I'm very much not in tune with the theme so I couldn't even tell you until I start doing my research if this matches up with what the movies are I don't know have you two watched James Bond before I of James Bond and but what I will say is he's like I said Roger Moore stuff haven't you no I'm like I'm definitely I think the first one I saw was like uh what was a golden eye and everything after that so but what I will say is uh when I did the stream I had David Dennis on and he is actually like a huge James Bond fan and so he was like no this is very you know it's very clear every bit of art that you're seeing was pulled straight from movie posters they have assets they have I mean it is very authentic to the Sean Connery James Bond so if you happen to be a huge fan of the Sean Connery James Bond this is perfect or you're loving every bit of it so I don't know I I would say the the official reveal or what we've seen from Stern so far was fine it answered some questions but still it's weird though like Godzilla Godzilla came out and if you hadn't placed an order within the first I don't know 48 hours you're waiting a year plus before you're gonna get your game and rush it was a similar thing like I felt like there was this this this Rush essentially to you've got to commit ASAP or else you're going to be waiting forever but it's just weird like right now it's this weird thing of I think everybody's gonna wait everybody's everybody's waiting until I don't know when I mean the initial thing was a pro run in April but then George Gomez on Facebook was like I don't think that's accurate so how much truth is I don't know and we're just we're in a holding pattern and um but what I would say I mean we're waiting for a stream but we did get a video I think it was pinball news pinball news or something had a video and it's it was what it was how long was it I mean it was kind of long it's 25 minutes long 25 minutes but there's one ball wasn't it no no no no he whoever was playing it they played a game I guess in the first six or eight minutes and they put up a GC of a little over a billion within six to eight minutes if I remember right and then they started it started another game afterwards so this was actually it wasn't the best camera angle it looks like a camera was kind of held you know shoulder kind of above you could see both the back the the scoreboard and this is totally like old school Tom graph is on YouTube 15 years ago 10 15 years ago there you go and you could hear it and so I don't know um Travis I know I think you were like I watched it all what were your initial impressions of what you saw from that video so I'll say this when it comes to code and everything I mean Lonnie's on the code I believe Mike is there with him and historically speaking we know what's happened with the last two games that Lonnie was on when it comes to stranger things when it comes to Guardians those games did not come out with any type of fleshed out code they had a long ways to go and Lonnie eventually got there with it Guardians is a fun game stranger things is a very fun game and so I kind of when I realized that they were on this game I went into this with the expectations that okay the code probably won't be as far along as some of the other games we're used to seeing I mean when it comes to an Elwyn game we're used to it being fleshed out more than usual more than the normal release when it comes to a Tim Sexton and Raymond Davidson game we're used to it being fleshed out a little bit more so my expectations just based on the history are in check with that but then I've also heard different people comparing this to Godzilla I mean I think Carrie Hardy put out a video comparing it to codzilla and and now I've heard others starting to talk about that as well and I just I don't know if they're seeing a completely different game than me I don't know if we just have different tastes in gameplay but I just I I look at this game and I don't believe it's on a Godzilla tier I wish it was I wish every game was Godzilla tier because my kids college would be paid for by next month I mean I wish but you know so just just being in reality right now when I look at the layout it's an intriguing layout to me and I think we talked about this based off the very first pictures that we saw that I told you guys I felt like the left side was kind of awkward for me just because you don't know where that left shot underneath the flipper where that was going and it's really not going anywhere except for rebounding into that Scoopy jacked right yep so it's like a backward scoop thing and then the left orbit shot is your ramp shot which I generally like that shot but my big worry for that is is well when you start having flipper fade are you going to get half ramps and sure [ __ ] that's what we saw in the video that there started being half ramp so I I don't know that could be game setup it could be flipper fade I don't know what that is but the left side does concern me a little bit just because it just it doesn't seem like that there's much there compared to the right side but again you're just looking at design that's I'm sure a code can put that together and give you a reason to start going after drops give you a reason to go up the middle a little bit more but the right side though I'm very intrigued by that I love that there's a shot in between the side ramp and the right ramp like I love that especially considering it goes all the way around orbit wise yeah yeah I think that's a badass shot so it's just I'm curious to see how different people how different people play this game though because it's so left hand dominant and that's usually people's off hand yeah how are they going to approach those shots on the right hand side and we'll after watching this the ball doesn't drain yep did you guys notice that the Paul yeah it looks like they've ever dreaded a freaking film this I mean maybe they did maybe they did yeah they flew him over um no it's well even the initial video it wasn't draining whoever shot that initial video they weren't hitting any shots but yet it was like there was magnets in the Playfield that refused to let the ball go to outlanes which is just that's crazy to me but that's the way it seemed like well I definitely say a key fundamental that I feel like I learned way late is as soon as you introduce horizontal movement on the play field that's when the ball is in danger so to me it was like I never had to worry about using an upper flipper and to shoot a ball across the Playfield until I realized after watching a few streams and hearing some people be like dude don't take that shot unless you have to because that's a dangerous shot and it's very clear that the layout there's a lot to shoot horizontally with that upper flipper so I know initially we kind of had some conversations of this could be a brick Fest or this could be a very dangerous shooter because in even the the scoop on the left you know you're hitting left and falls in the scoop we're like where's that going to shoot if that thing shoots just straight across the Playfield that could put you in danger so it was surprising that this first stream that we're seeing seems to be the exact opposite where it seems to be a very safe game so I see what you're saying and I I still it's a unique layout I'm really excited to shoot the thing but so I would say okay at least at least there wasn't anything there that was like awful that I saw um the artwork I like in the high-res photos that I've seen the artwork's actually grown on me a lot I I I've been starting to really enjoy the Playfield artwork but I will say there were there were two things that really stood out to me watching this stream and it was the LCD screen what oh sorry yes no it wasn't quite the camera Ango really didn't Zoom too well into those inserts but no it was the LCD what was on the LCD screen and then the audio and just talking about the LCD screen it seems very early in code like I know Stern with Stern Insider connect is all about putting four scores on the bottom so you have that but it's just black boxes and then pretty much the entire time was just Bond video just going and then they had their left side of the screen every time you'd hit the diamond spinner it was just diamonds flickering and then every time on the right side of the screen if you hit the pop bumper it was like bubbles popping so I heard a lot of bubbles popping and I heard a lot of a very annoying Diamond sound and then the James Bond tune for 28 minutes so I all I can hope is this is just super early on maybe it was like we've got to get something so this is playable when we have it at that show that it was supposed to be at but it just I really I I mean the more that I've played or the longer I've streamed I realized how little I actually look at the LCD screen so that it's I mean a games that have a great LCD screen or a great layout to me like rush rush actually is a fantastic shout out to rayday because when you look up you know exactly where the information is that you need to see so as you're playing you look up boom I know what's going on with that or I know what's going on how far am I boom boom boom he's the layout there is wonderful well done but this game is just like I I don't know I don't know I'm not excited at least where the code is right now but that is something where they absolutely have time to improve on that and then you know I went on a rant about how I felt about the Woody spinner and the Bow Peep Loops Bell man that diamonds like in the bubbles I mean it's just please I really hope I don't know I don't thoughts on that thoughts on no that's you hit the nail on the head I mean it's definitely the something's got to change with that I think it's it's one of those things that okay so since people are comparing us to Godzilla let's go ahead and go there then whenever we talk about the Godzilla call outs we all celebrate how quirky it is and how campy it is like shoot the lamps like shoot the lamps yeah that's my spirit animal I mispronounce words all the time so that's that's awesome right there you want things that endear you to the game and whenever you're looking at James Bond and you get that diamond sound over and over and over again yeah I I don't know I I don't know if that's an audio thing I don't like who it's hard to tell off the video it's very hard to tell at this point but yeah it's the bubbles and stuff like that I'm not really into I don't know maybe diamonds and Bubbles are a big thing with James Bond I mean I'm guessing they take a lot of bubble baths or something like what what am I there's an underwater scene I don't like no I don't is that what it is I don't like popping bubbles is yeah well it's just one of those things it's it's obvious that it's very early code the problem is is that whenever you're dealing with very early code it takes you out of what a game should entirely be because there's all these things that have to come together to make that game just go and we're talking design we're talking shots we're talking sound we're talking giving you a reason why I'm hitting the shot given that feedback the audio feedback to you that hey this is a jackpot hey this is the perfect shot to hit all those things really come together and you know the reality is is looking back again when we look back at the history of everything none of us really got that from stranger things I mean Tom you probably remember this in disc 2020 that was the first time I remember this yep the first time we all got to play stranger things and there was a lot of people playing it once and just being like I have no clue what I just played yep like it just and it gave that Vibe and Guardians the same thing happened and this is back in I think 2017 at this point or late or early 2018 somewhere right around there but we all remember like the uh the yondu where he's like yeah whatever it is yeah it's it's like okay you know guys we we have to figure this out here but yeah that's um that's what's concerning with this and I I see this game clear as day it's definitely following that trajectory right now which it could be good could be bad depending on the way you look at it because again Guardians and stranger things ended up getting very well fleshed out I mean stranger things got multiple code updates yeah over the years and so updates yeah yeah and I could see this game definitely following that pattern as well since it's the same team behind this but again as much money as these Games Command right now the last thing that you want is the software to be lagging behind the design that's that's the very last thing that you want in order to push this product out in order to get it out quickly and efficiently and at the same time too if Stern's going to keep producing all these other bangers I mean let's look Godzilla it's the number one game of all time for a reason and it's still the cells just Crush yeah everything so you're still going to have people that are getting into pinball and they're going to discover that game early on so the rest of your games that you're bringing up they too they have to be up to Snuff they have to be able to hold their own weight and so I don't know maybe James Bond it might be that game come next spring but I don't know if it's going to be that game this fall just based off the history of how the software and how this code gets developed what if it's like Monsters where just shallow or just stays shallow yeah I mean first impressions are everything though too I mean you know what like you were alluding to Travis but um you know when monsters came out it was like oh my God the artwork's amazing and then like people got the game it's like this is it like yeah code's gonna get deeper it's got to get deeper right and never did oh yeah we all kept swimming in the shallow end it happens yeah you are in it there it isn't a shallow end it is a kiddie pool that you are in and stay in it and enjoy it yes and I but you know some people love that game and that's fine and and I know we've had the same conversation with Toy Story that if they've designed the game that they needed to but I also know that there are plenty of people that bought Toy Story because it was Toy Story Pat Lawler they're all in they get it and then now they're trying to sell that 12 000 Plus game and they're sitting at 11 000 I mean people are losing money on Toy Story and that's weird I mean that's there's very few games that people are losing money on these days and obviously nobody wants that with Bond especially with such significant price increases that have been put in place but Tom did you own Guardians and stranger things day one did you ride it from the beginning no actually I played them out on location I didn't like them just like Travis was alluding to before uh okay I hated Guardians the first time I played it um yeah I absolutely hated stranger things the first time I played it I was hitting that demogorgon and I was like what the hell nothing's going on the game I get you man that's what he felt yeah that's what he really felt yeah no but you know um But as time went on and I got to play more fleshed out code the games really grew on me and that's when I wanted to own them and you know both games are in my my front room you know yeah so but uh yeah I mean I I appreciate them now but at the time when they first came out I thought no this is not what I'm expecting machine it's weird it's just a weird this is the first I mean I know when Godzilla came out it just blew her like everyone was blown away and so we were all sitting like good luck good luck to whoever's releasing the next game and then I think rush really just really surprised people I mean really surprised people and came out you obviously ever die hard brush fans like Tom that are in regardless but then Ray day and Timmy what they did with the code really people are like holy crap this game is something this game really is something so here we are I'm not saying it's a dud it's just this is the first time that we've had a reveal that just seems lukewarm and people have a lot of faith in Gomez myself included I'm excited to play it I think I I I'm excited to feel the layout and see how it flips but because it is Lonnie I think people are like all right well buckle up it's probably going to be a little while before this game really gets to where it's where it's gonna end up and um so you know what hey if you're not getting your game till April next year it may be better you may actually enjoy it more when you get it because they have more more time to flush it out so we'll see still no announcement on stream we did talk about like would it make sense to have it at Expo and we kind of all said maybe not because if this is where the code's at maybe you don't want people to have a first a bad first impression yeah I think a lot of people would be disappointed if it wasn't at Expo but if it's just not ready probably not a good idea that that happened with Batman 66. right yeah it was like under it was like a museum piece you know you could you could stare at it the super alley with the Rope around it you know kind of thing but uh yeah it'll be interesting to see if there's a bunch of them on the showroom floor or not and I don't I don't mind that at all either if they just have an Ellie there just to show off or a premium there just to say hey here's the game even if people can't play it I don't mind that necessarily just because if the code isn't ready then it's just not ready but if you feel like it's ready for go time and you want it to be played by people then by all means put it out and the people in the market will have their say you know they'll they'll speak with their uh with their bank accounts well you know when you turn the game on it says what Co where they're at and obviously we're Stern they listed as 1.0 means feature complete so if there's an insert on the you know like Godzilla just got to 1.0 and that's because there was an inter dead center that said king of the monsters there was no king of the monsters wizard mode yet so now that now that every insert on the game has a it's feature complete that's 1.0 so I think everybody would take a whole you know everybody would just take a big deep breath if if we learned that James Bond code is at like 0.55 or something you know but if they come out and it shows that it's at 0.87 or something 87 it's like wait what this is you're almost 90 you know I don't know it's I mean it it's a tough thing and the thing with code and with coming up with rules is that there's Stern has and this goes for every other company as well everybody has different teams and so you're going to have different teams they're going to have different strengths different weaknesses they're going to work together in different ways so it it's just one of those things that I think obviously we're in the era to where you're dealing with games that are designed by Keith elwin and the rule set is by Keith elwin I mean just a tremendous mind so you get a tremendous gain you're in the era of having Tim Sexton and Raymond Davidson be able to figure out a rule set figure out a code and get it fleshed out quickly and efficiently from a high level understanding of what makes pinball fun and so it doesn't mean to say that nobody else knows how to do that because lots of people's games are fun there's some Dwight Sullivan games out there that are fun just like we talked about where Guardians and stranger things went they ended up being fun so people just work at different rates different speeds and I think that's the one thing I would tell everybody out there that if they're seeing this and they're thinking okay the code is Bare Bones just keep that in mind it's not an excuse it's just the reality of what the situation is and Stern has always shown that they'll they'll put a game out when it's ready to go out they just put it out and sometimes the code will be more fleshed out than other times but that being said me as a consumer yeah I would love for the code to be no it doesn't have to be near Complete because of course you can make adjustments but I would like it to have some depth from day one I mean I can't imagine buying a game on PC or console to where it doesn't feel like the game's complete you know and that's me just spending sixty dollars let alone trying to spend seven thousand to twelve thousand dollars man yep no I I the only thing that I know for a fact though is I feel like there is depth in this game just because of inserts when you look at the inserts it looks like there's seven main bosses seven Mini Mini Engine uh there's it looks like there's a lot of inserts on this game so there's there should be a good amount of code here but how long that's going to take I don't know so for all you Bond fans hopefully we can all be patient through this whole thing maybe this game will get fleshed out sooner than later but you know if you're an Le buyer it's probably a weird feeling are you out what are you doing and I you know I feel bad for you kinda because I mean if you're an Le buyer I don't know it's hard to I I try to relate to Tom and that's about as much as I can relate to with with the with the elitist I'm getting a pro I know oh yeah yeah you're a man of the people the game's gonna get complete eventually regardless I mean Stern they haven't abandoned a game completely since what like WWE Maybe I mean the game's gone to 1.0 right oh you haven't played WWE Joel no then no yeah but that being said like this day and age I mean these games do get complete eventually so it's like yeah if you're in on an Le be confident about that I mean be happy with your purchase and yeah like I said maybe maybe the rules that might not be as deep A1 it might not be deep come the third month but it will get there eventually yeah yeah I don't know any other thoughts any other thoughts on the on what we've seen so far on bond let's play it and see how it is let's wait and see yeah I mean so but Tom just alluded to something I think is interesting so Tom since you usually get Les yeah what convinced you to go the pro route this time around since you obviously you're routing the game but you did decide not to get an Ellie so yeah I I just didn't think there was enough in the game to justify the cost jumping up to a premium or an Ali that was that was just my thinking So and I've bought I mean I bought Pros on the past but um just looking at the game you know the the magnetic uh bond that brings the ball around um and then what was the other feature oh the ball lock like ball locks they're cool yeah but they don't really interest me all that much like if I don't know I mean we we all know it's the it's the it's the mirrored black back glass I know at the end of the day Tom yeah you want to do this to yourself in your pinball machine and that's why you buy the Le's for that let me tell you the mirrored back glasses are really and cool I I know they really are I I mean I get it I understand why they don't sell them separately because everybody would buy one they are really amazing yeah they are amazing well this this touches too on a interesting subject when it comes to Les let me interrupt you just a second Travis what if they made what if they made mirror back glasses for pro and premium games like like as an after buy everybody would buy them yeah they'd buy them yeah I just made you a ton of money but but One Less Reason to upgrade from a premium to an Le exactly yeah because everything else reflective glass you can buy you can buy it you can buy upgraded speakers you can buy a Shaker motor um it's just that is truly the only thing that you can't get Mom just just go on pin side you can join everybody else on how to like just bomb out a business with these ideas bad but so but what I was going to ask you though what could Stern do at this point to entice people to get Les even more since there's been a price jump and I've talked with this with some others that basically they like to have what I guess signatures autographs uh certificates what do you know do you get HD glass raise my hand you're a good okay yeah yeah and then so what else is there okay yep the back glass HD glass right Shaker Shaker motor powder coatedpowder coated okay is there any upgraded speakers so this is perfect then so you as an Le buyer what other items could be added to this in order to entice you to want to accept it at the price point where it's at currently thank you not just Bond but any future like many maybe thought would be a collusive Topper exclusive yeah kind of like else could have it that that's an alley so like the attack from Mars remake they're Ellie exclusive topics that is huge look at the uh the Batman super Ellie yeah you know that it has the Batman and Robin with the what do you call that the beacon with the bat signal yeah no that's a bit well I guess I did have that but the like the beacon in the middle or whatever the red light Tom like you like left the camera's just freezing up and just gibberish all right we'll see we'll see how that sounds on audio but no one no Tom can't afford an Ellie anymore he's got a place for internet so an exclusive topper that was my you know there's already people that are like if you're paying that you should get the top or you should get the banner truth is most I mean Tom's buying the banner and the topper regardless but if it was exclusive buying banners you have a you have a banner I can see behind you I won that freaking thing you're not gonna buy a rush Banner uh I traded My Guns and Roses uh Banner for a rush okay yeah but you'll get the topper you're gonna buy whatever what if they they threw a banner in with the entire team signing it oh yeah like like I think that would be cool I wish they would do something like that because I like the idea that they have the credits on the game and everything that they're given you know credit where credit's due to the entire team I would like to have a banner if I get an Le of everybody's signature that worked on the game like to me that would be pretty cool to put up in the game pretty cool they do yeah yeah there you go there you go Stern right I mean you say that though and I I'm pretty sure all the Ellies are sold out right now of James Bond so it's not it's not like they're sitting on a shelf they're not they're not sold out Joel everybody they moved out to Distributors have them okay I want to dispel this this group think that always happens the Les do not sell out day one they're sold out through Distributors and dealers but there's always like I keep seeing post on Facebook and everything that talks about how you know everybody's put down their deposits and there's all these long lines and everything like that it's like no that's not reality not not every company out there every dealer out there has a list of people I can tell you straight up we don't do that you know and it's not saying that that's a bad thing or a good thing I'm just putting it out there that hey here's the reality of it these I mean somebody just bought a Mando Le new in box just three months ago yeah think about that from from a distributor that still had it so it's like everybody thinks that these games get sold out instantly some of them might like a Godzilla like some of them might be very very hard to find or might be priced a little bit higher but a little bit they're always out there if you search around you'll find one yeah some may be yeah price tires usually the case but no you're you're right it's not like all the Les are already in somebody's home you know they are if you really want one you could probably find one oh yeah like I can tell you straight up we've we still have some LDS left so it's like some people still still do it just it depends but honestly if I was a huge Japan fan I probably would have gotten Ellie but I'm not yeah no it's a pretty huge Bond fan Tom why am I not yeah why are you not I just yeah I just haven't seen a lot of the movies that's all he doesn't like popping bubbles and you don't like diamonds the diamonds I don't I don't really like martinis okay no wait I do I just remembered guys I take it back we did watch more bond in just a couple of minutes I forgot the loser kids sent us that video of uh what was it James Bond getting attacked by a snake yeah or something like that and I was very confused because he was shaving while he was in you know the bathtub or whatever but he had like less of a beard and what I can grow so I didn't understand what was going on in that scene it wasn't his first take that's the problem he shaved it off in the first take and then when he went to kill the snake I don't I don't why didn't they CGI his beard on there CGI back then what are you talking about they could like glued it on there or something right Godly these lazy movie Producers nowadays peace well yes James Bond wait and see we'll just I don't know I'm excited I'm still excited to see it but I will say now that this reveals kind of out of the way and we're kind of waiting and seeing one game that I am actually excited for is galactic tank force I don't know why I saw a little bit of the art yeah I saw a little bit of the art at the um what was it the super awesome pinball tailgate party or whatever I saw just a random picture of it and it looks campy and like to me I don't know I like humor in a game so I I'm still I can't wait to get my Galactic tank force lunch box that's really what I'm waiting on and uh you know and go to work with it yeah of course thermos in it yeah I'll make myself a sandwich put it in the box and immediately take it back out yeah hey it could be a great game you know it could be it could be looking forward to it American pinball makes tanks see that they do they do yeah a tank of a game usually yeah I had a Hot Wheels and it I mean it had some issues at the very beginning but they helped me through it immediately and after that like it you know it worked perfectly fine and it was a fun game overall so yeah I look forward to seeing what a galactic tank force will be maybe it might be something campy like attack from Mars I hope so and it's Dennis Nordman so it's it's you know he's made some great unlicensed games and let him run with I don't know I'm I have I'm really like I'm genuinely looking forward to the game no no idea what I'm gonna see but I hope I hope it's good and uh yeah we're just I don't have no idea timeline there too what do you want to see Joel what do you want to see like I want fun audio I want it to be campy I want it to be humorous you said attack from Mars that's a great example like that is what I'm finding you know I don't like super serious games so things already called Galactic tank force if this is galactic it's in space tanks when you think of a tank it has Treads why do you need a vehicle that has treads in space like already caught on a moon base yeah which sounds good I don't I this is this has ever seen the Mars rover Joel geez yeah but it didn't it Rover wasn't flying through space it was in the Rock I don't know anyways why do you think that hold on why does this tank have to be flying right now let's fly it's not a lunar tank force it's galactic I'm thinking sorry I'm just thinking we don't know we don't know what's the definition of Galactic maybe maybe we're wrong is this a word you didn't learn in Oklahoma I mean no it's it says relating to a Galaxy or galaxies yes especially the Milky Way I don't know maybe it's like a giant tank Joel I know it's very Milky Way maybe when tanks fly yeah do you think Dennis Nordman goes walking into David fix and he's like here's the deal I'm ready to go this is my get what do you want what do you want to what do you want to do I love tanks and I love space let's do it you know and they just goes I don't know and I don't care because if the game's awesome I'm million dollar decisions like yeah if the game's awesome let's do it and then he goes to Christopher Franchi Francie do you want to draw art for Galactic tank force he goes let's do it let's make the lunch box he's in he's in I'm in I'm ready to go I'm ready to go I think it sounds really fun I I really hope this is the number one game coming out I hope I hope you see Godzilla right there at the top and right below it Galactic tank force because why not I mean to me it's just some of these lights I mean I get it licenses sell I totally understand it but if this has a chance to really just blow us away way I'm ready you know load it up I'm ready that'll be great so I'm just I'm more confused now than ever but yet I'm more intrigued yeah there you go there you go American pinball if you need me for marketing apparently I'm ready I just I don't know did they come up with Galactic pink that's what I'm saying I like tanks I like space let's do it it's gonna be great it's gonna be great so yeah I don't know or it could be awful it could be so bad yeah it could be terrible but you know what I'm excited like I'm excited to see I don't know new pinball is always fun so well there you go there's some fun stuff there I will let every transition exploding tank well the thing is too if it says Galactic tank force yeah that infers that there's more than one tank correct yeah do you ever see a tank on a solo Mission I don't think so I mean the bf'd up if it did right I mean I did that back in Call of Duty but that's about it Fury Fury with Brad Pitt yeah check that out Fury movie is it based off Galactic tank force is that what you're saying it's not in space you know just Chuck that rocket into space I don't want to watch it then if it's not based in space no I'm all in on this I just hope this straight down the middle guys are doing like a commercial for it and we see Zach and Greg and with the tank helmet yeah so okay who would mess with the galactic tank force though like who's the antagonist in this story we really need I want to flesh this out real quick because you guys got me intrigued no listener wants this no it'll be another one who are you fighting it'll be it'll be either generic aliens what are you gonna fight in space I mean we have established there might be another human Empire out there Tom we don't know yeah have you ever seen Moon fall I just totally ruined that movie for people but still it's like you know I don't know I'm ready though I just supposedly we're already living here so we don't know I don't know I don't know she could be a alien I mean probably am I don't know based on how poorly he knows the English language all right so no we're trying to figure this out Joel okay we can't figure it out well we know what title we know dinosaurs no we could break this down it means Milky Way right no like the Milky Way galaxy it's just talking about it's in it's relating to it sorry let's break it down tanks in space done done no that's broken multiple tanks in space nailed it I'm ready level up your tank you think that's what happens like you get like Photon phasers oh helps yeah what are we doing today that'd be badass they they better have like a better be like next Generation to where you have like a thing you could shoot and has a laser beam that points to where you're going at with it oh it's like a laser pointer you know the more you guys I want it I told you I'm excited I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing this game and I'm either going to be impressed or very let down and that's fine so we can level up our contact that's what we're gonna do we can level up our tank and then you can get more stuff now oh wait wait wait wait if it's a tank force what if we're not actually the tank but we're like the commander of the tank force oh Lord so we basically positioned I mean you know it's a fantasy world Joel we're just going to go along with this yeah I don't know man I don't know I don't know I'm doing stuff here Joel everybody else is like gtf all this and that we are fleshing out the game for the listener right now we're figuring this out you give me a generic theme it's like what do you want do you want a castle do you want some Cowboys do you want no give me Galactic tank like yeah that's there's Cowboys in the keep no yes yeah let's just throw them all in there we're fine we're getting Cowboys versus Aliens again with my tank all right okay well I you know hey I hope we hear more David are they done talking about no listener once a year three guys literally make up stuff we're just making it up we're not we're not making up stuff I see people put rumors out all the time that I need a flat out false and I watch all the pinball run with it so I mean we might as well just go with this okay all right uh all right you guys heard it here first Joel said that in Galactic tank force they're going to be a team and you can level up the tanks the flying tanks it's got a laser beam pointer in it I think franchi actually shows up to your house every time you hit start with his with The Lunchbox with The Lunchbox yep yep and um I'm dead seriously if they I I even if the game is awful if they sell a lunchbox I will buy it this game can't be awful Joel I I I'm just I'm just saying there is no reason I will not buy that lunchbox I'm just it will happen because I want somebody to be like why do you have a lunchbox oh that's a pinball machine you don't own it no the game's awful so why do you I mean just I just want it you know it's gonna be awful yeah I don't know what I'm just saying because it's awful I'm buying the launch box it could be amazing I'm telling so here's the transition we're done we're moving out of this we're transitioning into the next thing the reason I'm bringing this up is my favorite game which is sitting right next to me is total nuclear Annihilation it is on license theme it's sitting right here I have TNA merch I made a custom TNA hat like I am all in so that's an unlicensed theme and it's incredible so maybe Galactic pain Force One day will sit right next to it I don't I don't know I'm gonna predict the future here what that I'm gonna like Galactic thing for us you're gonna sell TNA you know why I won't sell Tina not Denise he's going to show up to his house and kick him Square in the nuts too when that happens there's two reasons why I won't sell TNA reason number one is I've sold it before I've sold it before and I know what it feels like and I wanted it back and I got it back so I'm not making that mistake again and reason number two judge dreads and two Starship Troopers the reason I'm embarrassed number two is my name is now officially in the game yeah thank you for the jazz hands Travis yeah I know I'm late to the party Tom's initials are in the rush code Travis's initials are in the Led Zeppelin code oh which you didn't know which I didn't know I'm like what are you talking about right now I came into our group chat I'm like Tom and I are over here you know with our names in a game how you doing Travis he's like my name's in Zeppelin I was like ah crap but actually we defended Travis's on her there yeah thank you Tom thank you so I mean huge shout out I think Ray and Tim were involved in getting both your names in there but I know Scott Scott is an awesome dude super nice and I've been working with him or talking with him for for quite a while now and um yes at the end of the day what's what's what's happened is Scott is working on new code or adding he is constantly adding to this game so being that spooky has these literally on the line are about to be on the line he's trying to put more in the game so one thing that he actually quoted in the game is a jukebox mode so if the game's in free play you can just walk up to it hold both flippers in for five seconds and boom you now have a jukebox with arguably some of the best music in pinball if you just want to watch out yeah this is just rock out you can't so I think that's awesome but what's really really cool is back I don't know a year plus a while ago I was actually watching Chuck work on straight down the middle play big games and he has a custom rom in big games where when he hits the spinner I saw on one of the other displays it was counting it was count big game big game yes it was counting how many spins or spinner rip like when he ripped the spinner how many spins you actually get and I was like that is awesome so he's like oh yeah the best I've ever had is whatever 41 or 70 whatever it was it's just like it was a game within a game so at the time I saw it I immediately messaged Scott and I was like Scott I don't know if you know this but in some of these older games there are people that make custom roms and they add that feature of a spinner rip like feature and I think that's awesome you know TNA has a left spinner you should add that to your game and he was like not a bad idea I'll put it on the list and as time went on I I randomly would bring it up here and there in conversations with Scott and Scott actually pulled one on me because he said hey I don't think I'm going to be able to get it in the game I was like oh okay that's that's you know it's fine it's his game I'm not and then lo and behold I'm actually doing some beta code testing for him and he shows me that he did put it in the game so now it tracks your when you hit the spinner you'll see see on screen it'll say spinner rip and it will count how many you have and my name Joel Bob is the default spinner rip so I'm officially in the game you're welcome everybody to do this stuff yeah it's released it's beta codes it's out there right now you could go download so what you're saying is Joel is you beat Scott down enough with your conversation just that he finally I was thinking the same thing I need to get rid of this guy I'll just put Joel Bob in the game just warm out just I gotta put it in the game no he's um it's been really cool like I actually I've I've done some other stuff with him and he's such a nice guy super humble I mean I love his game and yes it was it was really neat I mean he asked some other stuff he's like hey yeah one thing that TNA also has is when you hit the mystery award it'll flash like scroll through mystery Awards and a bunch of them you can't get like their jokes um like game over like their jokes so he's like do you have any suggested you know mystery award stuff so he's he's all about making this game as fun as possible so Props to him even now I I don't know if Scott will technically ever be done with the TNA code it's like clearly his baby and he continues to want to make it even better and better um I actually replaced I replaced the um the the display up in the core the upper area where it now has two extra LEDs so we added more lights I mean it's just he's constantly adding to this game so I don't I wanted uh I wanted to say that so thank you Scott if you happen to be listening absolutely I mean thank you so much for putting that in game I think that's awesome otherwise hey if you update your TNA and you see my name now you have something to beat so have fun so now what we're saying is because we have our initials or our names in different games yep do we have a triple drain logo no on any of the codes or anything I I mean yeah if anybody from Stern wants to put one in let me know I will make that graphic for you as soon as you want and you can you put it in the game well that'd be great yeah might as well just beg just big now yeah yeah please chance with I don't know somebody please I don't know what game do we need to chill I don't think we're going to be on the bond one probably deep root I don't know but hey well speaking of logo speaking of logo this is actually kind of a big this is where we're going to get a little chilly um when we formed triple drain it was kind of like let's do this well my undergrad was graphic design I literally over like one evening just kind of put together a logo for us real quick tried to put together something so that when the first episode came out it seemed somewhat professional and we've been rolling with that logo we actually have merch on silverball swag with that logo I think we've sold like five shirts and two of those shirts were Tom and I but that's fine and for the people that did buy it thank you I think that's incredible thank you thank you for the support in buying that logo but I as an artist somewhat have always been somewhat embarrassed of it and wanted like wanted cooler merch I I really wanted cooler stuff well Jackson gee Jackson gee actually did all the yagpen art and yagpen was a really awesome tournament up in up in Canada and I saw that art and it blew me away I was like who is this artist this is all new art in the pinball world and and I immediately reached out to him and I was just like hey is there any way you listen to Triple drain and he and he responded back quick like yes I actually really enjoy the the podcast is fantastic so we started up a conversation I started talking with Travis and Tom and I was like guys would you be willing or interested in putting in money towards actually designing some official triple drain merch and we were like sure let's do it so it wasn't cheap Jackson definitely worked with us on that it wasn't cheap but we are happy to do it and I will tell you he blew us away with with the with the final result so now we actually have a new logo as well as a really cool graphic of us being like a three-headed Hydra which you know if you look at each head it's kind of clear Who's Who and overall I love it I'm stoked I'm currently working with Will at silverballs Chronicles to get everything figured out so by the time this podcast airs it should be there if you go to silverball swag I say silver ball Chronicles I am so sorry for insulting that website by saying that all awesome podcast but silver ball swag silver ball swag if you go to silverballswag.com and go to Triple drain you should see all of our new stuff so we have the Hydra shirt we have our normal logo both white and full color if you guys see anything and there's any particular apparel that you want if you want a triple drain shower curtain let me know I can make that happen but um overall I don't know you guys you guys are basically like Joel you you you work with Jax on this and I was happy to what an awesome dude to work with but I don't know your initial Impressions by seeing even just the sketches and stuff that he he had sent in I liked it I liked it also yeah what I'm realizing is I was the picky one I was the one like what about this could you tweak this and I don't know I just I respect the heck out of them so one for his patience for working with me and two I mean just the overall final product he produced is fantastic so if there's any other content creator whether it's in pinball or not definitely reach out to Jackson gee gee Jackson gee otherwise just check out his website the guy actually has some really amazing art a lot of retro stuff like older movies um stuff that he's recreated there's like Deadpool stuff X-Men stuff uh Star Wars Jurassic Park whole bunch of cool posters and stuff so check him out he's also working on a pinball Focus clothing line that he hasn't uh announced yet but when he does I will definitely mention that um so he has other pinball related apparel that he's gonna make so definitely check out that merch uh feel free to buy it if you if you do you know wear it tag Us in it or whatnot but hey any support would be awesome but um truthfully I just want more Jackson Gee artwork out in the world and I'm just happy that it happens to be triple drain specific so there you go there's shill number one um and I'm I'm trying to figure out Travis is very particular on his hat and Tom is very particular on his T-shirt so hopefully we're gonna get you know nice quality apparel for everybody to enjoy chill number two show number two patreon patreon we we've talked about this a lot we've we've actually talked about this a lot and if everybody if anybody listening right now Tunes out I understand but the truth is that the doing the podcast takes time I mean the three of us have to coordinate a time we usually record for yeah I don't know roughly two hours after the podcast is over I usually edit and it takes at least as long for me to edit it normally at an additional hour on top of that so another two hours of editing plus an additional hour so I don't know minimum every episode we're looking at like five plus hours worth of work and it's fun work it's fun work I know I enjoy it Tom enjoys it Travis he loves it well and I will say when we have people that come to us in a show or at a tournament and say they enjoy the podcast or the message we get emails or Facebook like truly that means the world to us when we hear people say we love what you're doing or we've enjoyed your or we've you know we're laughing with you guys like or you can laugh at us I don't care but if we're bringing joy and positivity into this hobby I'm I'm happy I'm a part of it and happy to do the work and what it is is patreon is a website that that's meant for creators for a way for you to support them um so feel free to go if you go to patreon.com patreon is p-a-t-r-e-o-n if you go to patreon.com and search triple drain we're gonna be the only triple drain pinball podcast it's right there and you have the ability to basically select a tier and it's just a financial amount whatever you want to throw us or support us with Travis's camera went out again so whatever you were gonna say Throw Another Dollar in so we can actually get this guys some working equipment but the truth is that's what that's perfect timing all this equipment we bought out of our own pocket even just buying a paying a good artist for Quality merch all that came out of our pocket and you know we're happy to be a part of this podcast but hey if anybody listening wants to support us in that what we will tell you is any money we make it just goes right back into the podcast so whether it's for better merch or to improve the equipment that we have or anything like that that's our goal right now so any money that we make on patreon truthfully step number one is just pay off the bill that we just accumulated by designing new merch but once we get through that we'll be honest we'll be you know we'll be happy to share that so the goal is not to try to put Travis's kids through college yeah but but my thought is like I would love to do a giveaway send somebody a comfy you know or try to get how do we get Keith elwin a triple drain shirt so you can wear it at the next tournament is that you know that kind of stuff it's just we want to have more fun but at the end of the day we're already putting forth a lot of time needs more l e yeah Tom needs more yes but it's just it's hard to justify putting in more money into this which is it's fun you give us money Tom buys Ellie please give us money so we can keep yes so we can keep having a good time but so it's there patreon.com triple drain we already to be honest this has gone live already we we did a Facebook announcement it was on pinside and we already have I think we're currently at 13 people and yeah you're just paying Joel and I to deal with Travis then that's good I think that's a valid reason I think it's valid reason so 13 people that is awesome like I was so humbled by seeing that even in the first two days it's it's it's absurd like even the the fact that there are 13 people that would support us what I will say I mean we don't usually share numbers on tpn but I know this every one of our podcast gets well over 2 000 listens and that's awesome like it's absurd to me that there's 2 000 plus people that want to hear the three of us talk like that doesn't make any sense I don't want to listen to Travis talk could be the same five people just hitting play just over and over again I don't know but it's and it's across the world which is insane to me so if you're listening and supporting and enjoying this show I'm thank you thank you for listening to us Babel but here for the Die Hard fans feel free feel free patreons out there how I told myself is I have a few podcasts like a collected Gamers podcast is one of them the pinball show is one of them that every single time it hits my pod catcher I basically drop what I'm doing and I'm listening to it and if we happen to be at that level for you guys feel free to join the patreon that's all I can say um there's my shill there's my pitch and I Travis has a quite a weird what are you just I just I'm making sure that your pants aren't like too tight right now right now I I I'm it's absurd to me that I'm sitting in a basement in Indiana Travis is in Wisconsin not Travis Thompson Wisconsin Travis is in St Louis Travis is literally sitting in her closet he's in a closet okay and the three of us are rambling and there's 12 over 2 000 plus people that want to hear it that's crazy to me I think it's awesome so thank you for all of our listeners and supporters I think it's incredible what what Joel is trying to tell everybody out there thank you that's what he's trying to say I think I did yeah it is Joel away yes I just I'm just I'm worried for you right now you're getting so fired up right now you're like what people can't see you got like a giant smile on your face while you're saying it it's awesome you're in total disbelief I I mean I enjoy streaming Tom you've streamed some major some major tournaments and when you look down and you see that oh you know close to 200 or 200 more people are watching your stream and now all of a sudden people are gifting Subs like that's something streaming and twitch does incredibly well you can do bits you can do Subs you can like support the stream thank you for these this seven plus hours of entertainment that you've been giving me today it's a it's awesome that it's built in podcasting there isn't anything like that so that's where patreon steps in and it just I'm telling you it's yeah it's the three of us looking at each other and rambling so when we get that outside feedback it's always surprising to me it's always surprising the pinball industry happens to have some pretty cool people in it I think that's what you're saying yes and yes yeah yes about cool people yeah 99.9 outside of David Dennis they're all really cool which yeah somebody actually asked that they're like what what happened did something I defended on inside feel free to check it out I mean you know about David Dennis you know Thomas as a streamer that streams large tournaments it is incredibly humbling when you get that type of feedback yeah absolutely it's awesome makes me feel like you have friends so we'll have to tell Travis what that's like makes you feel good wow I've been nice to you Joel for like at least the past two minutes you've been on a good you've been on a good behavior the last two two episodes but hey Tom get get your uh your little thing ready okay you ready wait one's oh he's gonna cuss me okay go ahead yep okay [ __ ] you Joel oh we missed it it only works when when you put whatever anyways all right so that's my that's the end of my shill so yes check out our merch on Silver ball swag check out our patreon patreon underscore yeah just search triple drain you'll find it there are other patreons out there for other cool podcasts like collected Gamers and silverball Chronicles made one too so yeah just support however you want if you don't that's fine we'll love you just the same um so that's Point number five point number six I'm handing it off there's a number six well I forgot the number six but look at the last one I'm handing it off to Tom Tom you got something big coming up next week yeah the pinball Super Series at District 82 pinball it's gonna be awesome six tournaments a lot a lot of pinball Thursday through Sunday uh starting Thursday night at 5 p.m so there's a knockout tournament there's a bunch of Knockouts and match play tournaments but uh it it's something you really gotta check out so basically uh we're all playing in these tournaments and it's a series so the depending on how well you do um over the six tournaments we add up basically points towards uh your your ranking in each tournament and you can win money so there we go actually Eric is paying out the top 20 people uh and the pinball company is helping out by uh uh helping pay the top three people as well uh in the series so it's it's really cool and you'll be streaming it Fox Cities I will definitely be streaming it on Fox Cities Pinball on Twitter fantastic I think there will be around 88 to 90 Whoppers is that what it is for first place estimated place and I think there's like 150 152 people signed up something like that with a bunch of people still on the waitlist I think it was something like 45 or 48 of the top 100 players yeah or signed up for this it's something crazy like that I mean that's like a it's like a major right there yeah there's gonna be some tough competition no that sounds awesome that sounds really so I I know basically anybody from Thursday Friday Saturday Sun I mean there will be plenty of awesome high-end pinball to watch on Twitch so Fox Cities pinball check it out show them some love throw them those throwing those bits and those subs and all that should be a good time I know the two of you obviously are playing in it so good luck with that and um I wouldn't exactly call it playing but yeah well no now you're talking about Tom I'm gonna win all six tournaments I kind of figured that that's what I was saying I don't know why everybody else is even showing up geez all right well I think that's it I know we wanted to record a quick one really just to a quick one hour and a half just to uh yeah share our thoughts on clipping Bond we wanted to mention Super Series and all that so um yeah and it mainly does sell our merch we really wanted to do it yeah yeah yeah we're hoping we're [ __ ] on the heartstrings and everybody's like do I do I really need that cup of coffee right you don't need that cup of coffee Tom needs his Le you don't need coffee Tom needs Azle we just I think no we just we're gonna go down we have 13 we're gonna go down Pages send us uh send us an email to uh triple drain at gmail.com let us know uh what you guys think well what is funny is uh on patreon if you do unsubscribe to somebody you have you're supposed to give a reason why I can't wait for the first reason to be like Tom doesn't need an elite [Laughter] all right well let's roll Let's uh wrap it up um unless Tom did you have anything particular you want to say I can I can hit the button if you need your cue no I'm I'm good I I I already talked all right then we'll just do the outro [Music] Travis has given me the evil eye Travis is confused yeah I am Joel so Joel for sure you know which twitch stream to watch this upcoming weekend or tournament pinball right okay all right I'm just gonna get ahead of this okay I just gotta take your steal your thunder call D'Python Anghelo streams tournaments on IE pinball okay I get it I just didn't realize that what was it pinball lab or whatever that was pinball at the lab pinball at the laptop equals Carl D'Python Anghelo that's what I missed so somebody's like you gotta watch people at the lab I said what's the stream and Chuck work comes in with his quick whiff equip of like oh what a sad day for somebody not to know who Carl D'Python Anghelo was I'm like oh come on yeah yeah so yes got it got it I got any other dig you want to make no I wish you knew like super series I'm just making sure you knew yeah yeah you know what to watch hey wait hey feel free to plug Travis something that I can see your content you can see me on there no Travis where do we see your content what do you have to plug on this shitty podcast that's not that unplugged okay yes I plug triple drain every single time yeah have you noticed out of the three of us I'm the only one that plugs listening to the show Travis well that's like come over there you've got a super series and being like hey guys have you heard about Super Series and they're like we're here we're already freaking here okay well you word it like that it makes sense but still you know uh okay all right I'm gonna try that but I'm gonna do it to Luke all right hey have you heard about Super Series yeah Tom feel free to plug man uh I think I already did but uh you can find me a five cities pinball oh and uh on Twitch YouTube Instagram and Facebook all the things yeah all the all the stuff but yeah I will not do Tic Tac good yeah at least and then I uh I stream for the pinball Network every Wednesday night from 10 to midnight Eastern to Standard time and then yeah check out the chatting streams we had a really fun chatting stream it's on YouTube about the bond reveal that was a good time then I stream for flipping out every other Thursday I do this silly podcast and I have my own podcast just in the Primo podcast that I haven't done in a while but hopefully we'll record an episode sometime soon but if you don't know burn that bridge well if you don't know when Stern releases a new game they don't talk to Media for a month like that's their new rule so if everybody's going where's the bond info a month it's like they there's a word for that but well that only makes sense because they're trying to get you to buy their all access Insider connect which I did with nature you get a cool coin need Shivers is better wait you got what you get a coin you get like this little it was like gold it was a cool coin you missed out on the coin yeah I didn't get a coin I got a coin is this like the 39.99 thing yeah yeah maybe it's like new I used to be a member maybe if we get enough patreon money that we can pay off our art Bill and then we'll put that towards and then maybe we'll put that towards Insider connect accounts for all of us so we can stay on top of the news you know yeah that sounds like a great idea yeah all right well um thank you Travis for being here and uh Tom you get the last words hey uh see you later
medium confidence · Tom references 25-minute video from pinball news showing first game with GC just over 1 billion in early balls
Lonnie Moore's previous two code projects (Stranger Things and Guardians of the Galaxy) shipped incomplete and required extensive updates
medium confidence · Travis states Lonnie's work on Stranger Things and Guardians came out without fleshed-out code, improved over time
Used Elvira 40th Edition machines are selling on secondary market for $20,000+, suggesting James Bond 60th could reach $25,000-$30,000
medium confidence · Joel notes two used Elvira 40th boxes listed at 20k+; Travis speculates Bond 60th pricing based on comparable LE models
medium · Joel: 'I saw right now on Facebook right now there's two new inbox elviras that are set at like 20 plus 20 000' and Travis: 'I think there's good chances Owen game is going to be 25'
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product_concern: James Bond Pro initial availability shifted from April to first run, creating distributor confusion and customer uncertainty about delivery timeline
high · Travis: 'it went from well home buyers wouldn't be able to get their Pros till April to all of a sudden now it's been slammed back up to the first run' and 'George Gomez on Facebook was like I don't think that's accurate'
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competitive_signal: Random tiebreaker selection (random number generator) and reverse-order finish formats identified as problematic, removing seed advantage and incentivizing intentional underperformance
high · Joel/Tom discuss CLE Pin random tiebreaker drawing and Free Play Florida reverse-order format that encourages players to 'literally lose on purpose' for game selection advantage
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sentiment_shift: Community confusion and frustration with James Bond reveal execution, described as non-standard, bumpy, and lacking normal Stern cadence
high · Travis: 'It's been weird it's been like from you know for Tom and I it's been one thing' and 'there's a lot of customers out there that are very confused just because it it hasn't been the normal reveal'
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code_update: James Bond code is in development with Lonnie Moore; historical pattern from Stranger Things and Guardians of the Galaxy shows incomplete launches requiring extensive post-release updates
medium · Travis: 'Lonnie's on the code... historically speaking we know what's happened with the last two games that Lonnie was on... Guardians... Stranger Things... did not come out with any type of fleshed out code'
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personnel_signal: Travis Murie now employed as distributor representative (The Pinball Company), providing insider perspective on game release challenges and dealer communication
high · Travis: 'now that you work for a distributor this is is this your first game reveal since you've been with the pinball company yep' and discusses distributor impact of reveal chaos
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content_signal: Pinball Network streams weekly Wednesday chats hosted by Joel; Zach from Flipping Out with Friends securing James Bond Pro unit for streaming content
high · Joel: 'every other Wednesday I do a chatting stream' and Travis: 'I'm hoping Zach with flipping out it's going to get me a pro that I can stream'
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event_signal: UK Pinball Open organized by Neil McRae in London, praised as well-executed with streaming coverage and multiple tournament formats
high · Joel: 'this weekend was the UK pinball open and uh what a freaking amazing tournament Neil McRae put on in in London'