I don't know if you noticed but kids are playing very very good pinball. Yeah, because they're not worried about world events or paying their bills or anything else going on. And these kids are coming in here and they whip my ass and they're really good pinballers and congratulations to them. I thought years ago wouldn't it be great if like anytime you tune in to Twitch you can see streaming pinball and here we are and that's kind of the case. Do John Youssi a subscription model coming to pinball? I see one coming? I gotta hope not. That'd be terrible. It's coming to Insider. Is it? I think so. Hello and welcome to the Wormhole and our podcast called Wormhole Pinball Presents. I'm your host Jamie Virtual and today I am joined by a very special person from the great state of New York, Buffalo Pinball's own Nick Lane. Welcome back to the Wormhole, this time virtually, Nick. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, you were here just a few months ago, right? Just a few months ago and you kind of got a behind the scenes tour not only the wormhole but you got to see the vault i got a i got to see the vault that was i felt special indeed um it was nice of tim to give me the tour of that i i so the vault is just a storage facility that we have it's just a staging area that we're going to use like a technical center if you will for the wormhole and then for the museum coming up yeah so you guys have been you guys have been publicly talking about the museum because I didn't know um I was talking on my podcast I didn't know if I could go into that oh yeah you can we can go into it as much as possible it just it's just a tease for everyone because we're probably not going to open until the end of 2026 or 20 yeah but no I get it cool yeah it's it's what do you think about what we have going on here in Houston I I love it I mean uh you know I need to spend more time in Houston I I think one thing I really like about you guys is that I sense a lot of passion, right? And it's always fun to be around people who are passionate about something and they're good people. It's fun to be around that kind of energy. And that's exactly what I experienced there. So it was cool. It was cool to say the least. Yeah, thanks, man. Yeah, we're addicted, dude. You know, I say Tim is a really, really great cult leader. And he's got us just flat out addicted over here. So I was going to end the podcast with this, but I want to give you a quick thank you to you and Buffalo Pinball crew, if that's all right. Sure. I'm going to ask right off the bat, calm you down, and then we'll go into the questions. But when you guys really, really supported Wormhole Pinball in the beginning when no one knew who the hell we were, right? Every raid you gave us on Monday night, we were on absolute cloud nine. we'd go from like eight viewers of people in our league to like 58 and we were just so nervous not to fuck it up and lose those viewers but it really motivated us to get better better equipment better sound rig setup everything so thanks again nick it meant a lot you got to kind of see the rig stuff that we got going on here it's impressive to say the least yeah yeah no happy to do what we can to help and um i'm glad it worked out and i'm glad to see where you guys are at well you know thank you very much as as always these interviews are very very very informal just two people sitting back bullshit and so let's talk about how buffalo pinball started and how'd you meet kevin main and how'd you guys decide to start streaming all that crap yeah um so officially it started in 2013 i think that's when uh the website went up i had the first uh quote unquote official, actually not even quotes, official tournament in April 2013 in the house I was living in at the time. People even brought games to my house, and that is the first IFPA pinball tournament that I'm aware of in Buffalo, because there was nothing before that. There wasn't a scene. And that was just me being a guy who moved to Buffalo in January 2011, bought an Ironman pinball machine three months later I was down at my first pinball tournament in Papa or actually Pinburg in 2011 and just looking at the competitive scene and saying I want that in Buffalo so it took me a couple years to get there the first tournament was in April 2013 first league was in Fall 2013 and how I met Kevin is maybe like a year prior to that there was a like a Western New York coin off collector Facebook page, I believe. And I had met some other folks in the community, got into that group. And what I noticed is that everybody was, was pretty open and friendly and, um, they would open up their collections to maybe parties or events. So I had, I had ordered an ACDC pro. I said, look, I'm going to be unboxing anybody who's welcome to come over and play that. Kevin showed up and, you know, hit it off with Kevin, pretty much like-minded. And, yeah, just started talking to him. We both worked at the university at the same time period, even though different departments. Kevin and I would go and grab lunch. We'd get tacos on a weekly basis. And then, you know, formed that friendship with Kevin, grew the league, and then, yeah, and here we are with so much going on. any past stream that like how did when did you decide to stream like what was your first term do you remember or so the the streaming of brody even pinball the the origin of that our first stream was i think late january 2015 or early february 2015 and at the time the only people that street were streaming was the papa folks and jack danger they were the only ones who were doing that. The reason we got into streaming, and we always thought it was like, oh, it's cool to stream a tournament. But a couple months prior to that, we were doing a local event called, you know, How Do I Pinball? Or I think we called How Do I Pinball? And it was in person. And we've always been about how can we help introduce pinball to people? How can we make it accessible? we didn't we brought a TV down there we even had a PowerPoint showing people skills and somebody wrote to the group event on Facebook and said I wish I could be there in person to see this and I remember talking to Kevin why don't we just do a stream this doesn't have to be in person to show people how to play pinball so that was the goal and that was the format from the beginning was a different week we would have a different guest on to make it interesting, but really it was the tutorial in the beginning. And we just wanted to show people how to play pinball and how to play a different game every week. And like this, you know, we kept it casual. I mean, we always had our friends on. And, you know, there's people that have been tuning in since 2015 that still tune in today and, you know, got to meet them and know them. It's just absolutely remarkable. yeah i mean it is remarkable if you think about it just from a little idea an acorn grows this you know buffalo pinball it's just it's really it's fantastic congratulations thank you what do you think of the current streaming landscape there's a lot of us now there's there's there's a lot and that's awesome i mean i i i thought years ago wouldn't it be great if like anytime you tune in to twitch you can see streaming pinball and here we are and that's that's kind of the case, you know, and, and I don't feel a need to stream pinball anymore. I mean, that my need to do that and to kind of evangelize pinball and to show off pinball and to get people into it. It's like, I don't, I don't need to do that. Like there's everybody else's it's great. Yeah. Um, so, uh, we've, we've definitely backed off from it. Um, we're going to be doing a bro show on Elton John on Friday, but we just, we've gotten really busy. Um, there's so much streams out there there's not this need anymore per se but we do it when we're free and there's like a new game where we're excited to show something off the need is that we miss you right that's the need uh and now i get it life gets in the way right um i'm at a point in my life where i'm really busy so this is hard as well but um i still have the passion for it right i still love it so So, you know, the need for you is there. It's just, you know, do you have the time? It's the time. I mean, I wish I had an exact count, Jamie, but we had, I think one time I looked at it, we had to have streamed over 150 unique games, right? Like it's a lot. I know. So I wish I had the time. I really do. And the other thing is that any time I do a stream, whether it's just streaming a game or we do Brody Even Talk Pinball, which I absolutely love, I want to give it my all. I want to 100% be present, be there, be enthusiastic. I never want to kind of go limping into a stream where I'm exhausted or stressed out because nobody wants to watch that. So we made a commitment to just doing it when we're up for it and it makes sense and we can put on a good show. Now, the podcast we do every month religiously. Yeah. I absolutely love the podcast. I can talk nonsense and pinball quite a bit, but only once a month, though, because sometimes I wonder how much they're talking about. And we're talking, of course, referencing the Bro Do You Even Talk Pinball podcast that you can get everywhere, right? Yep. I've been a fan of that podcast for a while. Have you ever said anything on that podcast that's gotten a lot of backlash? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Yes, yes. How do you deal with that? We don't have to mention what you said. How do you deal with it? Usually humor is the best way to, like, usually I find it funny. Right. I haven't gotten there yet. We haven't said anything yet. Yeah. We've been good boys over here at the wormhole. I love when people can, like, I love when we can say something like, I don't like this game or I don't like this about this game, and I see a comment on YouTube and somebody's like, that's cool. well, I like the game, they don't, but I like to hear differing opinions. I love those people. That's interesting to me. Tell me what I'm missing about a game. Tell me what John Youssi in a game that I don't. You don't have to agree, and I can appreciate what John Youssi about it and understand it. But I laugh because you asked that question. There's always something going on. There was somebody commented on our last podcast a few days ago, and they called us shills because I said I'm probably going to get a John Wick. And he's like, you guys are shills now. You're not going to get this game. And I was like, this is a weird comment. I don't know if I'm going to get the game or not. I haven't played it yet. Right. Like in your mind, like is Stern calling me up and giving me money to say that John Wick's a good game? Like, it's just I think the bizarre comments that trip me up sometimes. I have this recurring thing when I talk to people in the pinball media world, right, on the interviews, that how do you deal with criticism? That is a constant question that I ask people because this is like therapy for me because I don't deal with it well at all, so I can't read them. And we don't get that much comment, so we're good. I uh like I said like me and Kevin will just like this is just crazy town I think um some comments about if somebody ever says we're disingenuous I think one thing that we're really good and bring to the table is that we're we're very authentic about everything man look there's there's this is a low stakes thing right like this this is not my livelihood um there's not there's not really any money to speak of on the table we have little sponsors but really the joy is to connect with my friend Kevin Manning and just talk like it's just him and I talking and inviting other people to hear our thoughts in real time. And, you know, those thoughts are sometimes developing in real time. We're talking through that and we're trying to make each other laugh sometimes or joke around because we have a good rapport. And then that's all it is. And most people really appreciate that. And that's why I love doing it. And I think one of my favorite aspects of the podcast is that we'll do it live and i can see the the chat on um from twitch and also youtube and they're interacting with us right like i'm seeing comments come in and asking that's an interesting aspect because no one really else is doing a podcast that way yeah i i love that i mean i i read everything can't react to everything but sometimes there's really funny comments that that will make us laugh and and and i love it it's like they're the they're the third person in the room during those shows engaging with your audience. I just had Jason with the Pinball Party podcast on, and he does that very well as well. Yeah, he's great. It's a difficult skill. It's a difficult skill. But all right, let's switch gears. We followed your tribulations with the pay-to-play and subscription model for your big buck hunter. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do John Youssi a subscription model coming to pinball? Do I see one coming? God, I hope not. That would be terrible. It's coming to Insider. Is it? I think so. Every time you go, every time. So they if I were Stern and this is terrible but I just a businessman I can help myself sometimes you know code updates would cost you a couple of dollars I think you would have add to the code We'll take you to 1.0, Stern, but 1.02, which is the special little thing that we just dropped for 007, that's $59.99. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think most people will appreciate that or like it, especially because a lot of the games that start shipping, it's just not complete. And then you get into an argument what's complete or what should be there. Or at least Insider Connect, they're going to charge you $4.99 a month for Insider Connect to start using this. Interesting. I wouldn't pay for that, to be honest. I don't see any value behind it. I'm going to probably pay for it because I'm an idiot, and I click, and I have it like right here is my – I put the QR code, and I get addicted to it. We don't have many Sterns here, though. We only have three, four. You guys are not big Stern fans? What's the reasoning behind that? We don't want to be a Stern-ament. We want to have a good mix of games. You know what I can do? Do you want to see it really quick? I put a new camera in here. I can show you the entire new one. Please. I always want to see your tech toys. Dude, I'm geeking. All right, here we go. Can John Youssi it? I see the camera. I'll talk to the camera so that people can see. I'll zoom it around. This is our new PTC camera. Isn't that awesome, dude? I think I'm over here. You can see me like an idiot. Then I can zoom over here. We just put Champions Pub in. Where the hell is this zoom? look at that shit dude I mean is that shit amazing I don't know what more do you want and then I got the back camera all set so I've got the thing locked in I appreciate that you guys one quality I like is people who don't mess around you guys don't mess around either do it or you don't well listen there's no reason to do it if you're going to fuck around I think that's right. Let's do it right. OK, and then and that's why we suck so bad in the beginning, because we were just effing around. You know, I've got this funny story of Phil Grimaldi telling us bit by bit. This is how you stream pinball. Right. He ripped it off completely from Jack Danger, gave a whole list of everything to do. Grimaldi sends it with everything we should do. Did we listen to him? No, we didn't listen to them. But that's how you get better is you fail yourself, right? And I'm not trying to get a motivational podcast, but when you F up, you go, shit, I don't want that to happen again on stream. And you get better and better and better, and that's just what we're trying to do. That makes sense. Let me ask you this. Did you watch the, I think it was last week with Tim Sexton's video about why he's not playing in tournaments and that discussion about tournaments in general and whopper farming and all that good stuff? I did not, but it was a discussion on our Discord. Okay. I was just curious what you guys thought about that or if you've delved into it at all. Like that tournaments are becoming whopper farms? I mean, he had multiple criticisms. I don't have them kind of all laid out before me. um what what's your from like your perspective what do you guys try to achieve at at tournaments what's what's your what's your mindset what makes for a good tournament yeah great question i want a balance of partying and whoppers all right if you are an extremist on either side it's going to be well the party guys just stay outside but i mean the extremists that want that we're here like we have a tournament this weekend the pinberg golden ticket tournament uh for the last spot of pinberg i'll ask you some pinberg questions later and sponsored by barrels of fun and we have 52 people coming in here on saturday to get one golden ticket they're going to be serious we're not having a dj that day right we're going to be serious but i think a regular 4x let's have some fun yeah but a major tournament all right that's a little different but the the whopper farms and how we have to frame tournaments like we get some great players that just don't come in anymore because there's not enough points for them which is fine by me i don't care all right you're too good anyway kick in my ass what approach gives you the best turnout when you're maximizing Whoppers or you're partying more? We're maximizing Whoppers. That's what the market wants. I know. When it's not a revenue model for that, I think we'll have to do that at the museum, obviously, if we want 120 to 150 players for the museum, which we'll be able to do because we'll have 125 machines. but they have to be perfect right i mean you can't have jobs so that's a whole other thing but yeah i think you're right i think i don't know i think electric bat arcade does it really well in phoenix the party i mean they get 120 to 130 people on a league night so they're partying but they're Whoppering. So what do you think? I always, you know, my thing is how do I, it's a balance between not Whoppers for me, but a balance between keeping the people who like to come out engaged and then making it accessible for new people. My thing is always like, I don't ever want to forget about that person who had the courage to come out to their first pinball tournament or their new. I don't want them to feel blown away or alienated or walk into a 12-hour tournament that some people do to maximize Whoppers. I think that goes overboard, right? Yeah. But kind of to your point, I think that the ideal situation is if you have several tournaments a month, that you have a variety. You have a variety of maybe maximizing Whoppers to appeal to that base. You have something more casual. I think I was talking to you guys when I was down there about the team league that we ran. And I don't know if Tim passed it along, but I sent him our rules for the team league or kind of the format that we had for it. But that was like, to me, team league wasn't for whoppers, but we had the most people playing in our team league and kind of the regular events that happen in a month. And I like that because people wouldn't come out. They're too intimidated to go out to a tournament. but if they're part of a team, then they'll come and get dragged out, and now they're suddenly playing competitive pinball, and then some of those people will go on and feel comfortable enough to get a little more serious and play an official IFPA tournament. So I think that's great. It's like stages all on the way. We had, when we were up and running, we had a team league. We had a league that occurred in homes. So you get to see these amazing collections, and then we would do maybe a larger monthly tournament where, honestly, we have four hours of match play. I think that's the max for match play that I would run. It's like you don't want to burn people out. And then the people who qualify, well, mentally they're going to be there all day. Those people are fine. They're all in. They're playing 18 and 36. They know they're playing in all six. Exactly. So I think that's the blend. But I've never tried to maximize Whoppers ever. And any time that – I don't play in tournaments as much anymore. I just don't get the chance. But I remember years ago somebody would run a 12-hour tournament just to maximize Whoppers. It's like, man, there's nothing I want to do for 12 hours. But there's also a market for that kind of stuff because people will sign up for 24-hour tournaments, which blows my mind. I was thinking about doing that here, which is crazy because John thinks that we can do it. I don't think I can physically stay up 24 hours. I tried to when I was a pledge, and I snuck out. So I just don't see me being able to do it. But we did a lot more quarterlies. So what we would do, we would have our monthly 4X and then two Monday tournaments. That's it, that we're open. And then we'll do a quarterly, and they would be more serious, like a Whopper farm. And we did it in like August here. We had 65 people in here and we're disgusting. It was disgusting. It's gross. People are gross. And sometimes and it was just too much. So we're like, you know what? Can't do that here in August. That I can assure you. And our Super Bowl every year is the Bayou Bash. It's in November. Excuse me. It's Halloween. It's Halloween party. and everyone really goes to the nines on it. So when we go to the museum, I think the Bayou Bash, we really want the Bayou Bash to be like a major. That's cool. It's going to be hard because you guys are going to be a museum that's open to the public, right? So when are you going to get time to work on the games and getting them 100%? Yeah. It's going to be a problem. them. Open to the public and maybe these games are not open to the public on this day. You'd have to set some aside or something. What made Papa work well is that facility was only open for tournaments. It was only open for Papa and Pimberg and then the Pittsburgh Pinball League. They would do their league there, but they had so many games. They were able to control the environment and those games were just ready. You still got to work on them, But that's the one challenge I think you guys will have to do because when you get games open to the public, those games are going to get beat on. I know. I mean, do you want – well, do you want Magic Girl beat on? An original Magic Girl beat on? I don't think so, right? So, I mean, this is the delicate – this is the problem, right? This is the issue. You know, you've seen Tim's collection and you've seen even some of the crazy European games. So that's going to be the issue of how often is the museum going to be open, and is anyone just able to come in and just beat the hell out of them? You should talk to the guys who are, what is it, past times out in Ohio? Yeah. Rob Burke and see. I don't think they're doing any tournaments there that I'm aware of. Maybe they are. But see how they're handling it, right, and how the games are holding up and getting a lot of play. These are great questions, and we've got time to figure them out, thank God. but that's also above a lot of my pay grade. So we'll try to find out. That's good. You don't have to worry about that then. I just stream, and I like to stream. There you go. I like to stay in my lane. Yeah. Nick Lane, no pun intended. You've been a longtime operator, and John Spates and his partner, Taylor, are now operators. Any advice you give to someone that is moving into the operation world? Let me do my best to give some advice. I haven't thought about the advice perspective. We do it on a small scale, number one. So we're not – this is probably more advice for somebody who's doing it on the side. This is not their main source of income. They're doing it for fun. And that's what he is. Yeah. I would recommend making sure that the venue that you put it in, you like the business owners and you think you can get along with them. I think that's important that they're understanding. When I would do contracts to a place, I would say, hey, let's try it here for six months. If it doesn't work, you're not going to want to have this game here taking up space, and we're not going to want to have it there either. I think you want to give yourself an out because you're not going to want to have a game parked someplace where it's just making no money. It doesn't make any sense. So make sure you do that. Make sure you have insurance just for yourself. Like if the pinball machine catches on fire, burns the place down, like you don't lose your livelihood. We, you know, we do contracts. We're pretty serious about it in terms of just being professionals and good communication. And then, yeah, make sure you at least do a 75-25 split minimum. If you could do better and get 100% and try to argue that you're bringing in customers or you're going to run events there, then good on you. Don't do 50-50. Charge at least a dollar for games minimum too. Don't try to undercut somebody down the road who's charging a dollar and think you're slick and do 50 cents. Like, you know, these games are so expensive. It takes so many plays just to recoup your cost on it. It's brutal. How many do you have out right now? I only have one location now. That location has eight games. It's Masuda Chow's. I used to have five of us in the business. We're down to three people. Two of them exited during COVID. But we also lost, I don't know, three or four locations, maybe even five locations, and just really downsized the business because that's what COVID did to it. I like it now, though, to be honest, because it's not a heavy lift. I go down there once a month to collect. The other business partner would go down another month and check on it. So it's not eating away at my time. It a little bit of revenue that I can put towards the pinball hobby and towards maybe the purchase of a game for myself And the funny thing is if you want to make life easy on yourself you put these games at a place where more casual people play, not pinball people, because casual people won't be calling you up and saying, like, this lights out or this is not 100%. I don't miss those calls. They can be a pain in the ass. Yeah. I mean, we love them because at the wormhole, we need them to be a pain in the ass because we're not open to the public all the time. And we're really tournament, and we want them to be perfect. But when they go over to some other places, I think they can be a pain in the ass. And rightfully so, right? You want them to work, right? If the fucking in lane doesn't work, right, or the scoop at Deadpool doesn't work, I went to this place and the scoop at Deadpool doesn't work. How do you play that? Yeah. That's tough. I think the, I think what you want to do, if you're going to have pinball people, then you want to make that a place where you're having leagues and tournaments and you're like, all right, I'm really going to pay attention to this place. I'm really going to drive pinball people there. You don't want to fall in that middle ground. It's like pick, pick, pick one extreme or the other. That's a good call. You're a, uh, tell us a little bit about the, the pinball collective that you guys are working on. What was, you know, we didn't, we, we should have talked about that right after. See, That's why I'm not a good podcaster. I could have segued right after the wormhole into your collective, but I didn't. So I'm kind of being tight-lipped about it because I am doing something that is – maybe there's something like this out there, but I'm leaning in one direction where most people aren't doing right now, and I'm pretty excited about that. So I would love to come back, and we can talk about that more or show the space off. I have something, too, that we're working on that I can't talk about. Yeah. I'm hoping, Jim, I'm hoping like end of fall. Okay. I think we'll be up and running. Our surprise is up around then, too. Yeah. So that'll be good. We'll go back on the podcast at the end of the fall, right before Christmas, and we'll make announcements together. That'll be fun. I'll talk about it a little bit. I'll give you a little bit. So, I mean, this is going to be like an annual membership kind of deal. My demographic are folks that have overflow games that look at this and say, oh, this is fantastic. I don't want to sell a game. I'll put it at the co-op. We'll put it there. And I've found people like that, and they're super excited. So it's going to have kind of that exclusivity. I probably charge like $1,200 a year for it just because less is more to me. with these, you know, somebody would have like, you know, basically not 24 hour access, but seven, you know, most, most of the day, seven days a week, key access card, get in there, play these games. It's going to be this, this kind of private club vibe. Right. And we will, we will do tournaments there. We will have tournaments open to the public at least once a month, if not more, I'm hoping to bring the team league back. So once that opens, I want to get back to running tournaments again because we only do the home league, and we've only done the home league since COVID hit, and I lost my other location. So I'm really looking forward to getting back into tournaments. I'll probably be calling you about streaming advice because I've got to get kind of up to speed with what people are using now to move mobile rigs around. So I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, next year at this time, hopefully we're doing a lot of the kind of stuff that you guys are doing, streaming our monthly, weekly, or team league. Awesome. We have a nice booth set up. So I can't wait to get back to that place. It's been too long. We're going to stream Tech Nights now on Wednesdays. Yeah. It's a whole different audience. Yeah, totally. I was talking to Momoto about it. She's like, this is great. And then she joined, and then I can fool around with the cameras and run this while they're teching. And I got this new mobile camera. I actually did a video on YouTube. No one's watching it. It's really just for us, but on how to set up my rig, how long it takes. It took like 20 minutes just to film the thing. That's important. Yeah. That's good. No, that's awesome. And you actually told me a hell of a lot more than you probably wanted to. So thank you very much. Yeah, I've said that. The only thing I haven't said is kind of the direction I'm leaning in. So we'll see. Okay. Maybe I'm not so unique or special in that, but I'm pretty excited about it. Wow. I think it's really awesome. And if you need help setting anything up, not only a phone call away, but I'll freaking fly to Buffalo. I love it up there. Thank you. So I'm going to be up in New York this week, but not in Buffalo. I'm going to be in Manhattan next week. All right. Well, let me know if you ever come to Buffalo. All right. Last, we have this rapid fire round question. You ever heard of what we do this? We could go through and we just rapid fire question at you. This is Donovan's baby. Donovan was supposed to be here today, but he got stuck in traffic. There was an accident. And which is a good thing that Donovan wasn't here because I think he was really, really nervous to talk to you again. We were we were on the stream together when I was. I know, but he got nervous. He gets nervous. Donovan has three fanboys, Rachel and Kale of Electric Backcast. OK, he was tongue tied during that podcast. and you. So he was very worried. So it worked out that he's not here. Does Donovan get upset that I don't like American pinball games? No, but Donovan got a big kick out of you playing Galactic Tank Force. Yeah, I saw that. That's great. He's like, this is great. I'm going to put this up. I heard on that that I was listening to Dave Fix was on a pinball magazine and I guess they're actively telling people not to use that game in tournaments. I've never heard a manufacturer say, don't use our game in a tournament. It will break. I don't want to kill him, but we've got it dialed in. Nice. I know. Nice. God bless you. You should do a stream on that and all the things you guys had to do. I'd watch it. Yeah. You know what? That's really actually a very good idea. The issue is going to be to get my tech, who barely talks to me, to put a camera in his face and go, okay, sir, let's go. But there was a lot. I mean, you had to do virtual locks, right? The lab is a – I know this game like the back of my hand because I actually really, really like it. And I was pissed that it didn't work in tournaments. It wouldn't hold up. What was it doing in tournaments? So he wasn't clear on that. Okay, so anyone that knows GTF, you hit the left. You have to hit air, A-I-R, to light your multiball, okay? You don't really want to hit the dude in the middle. If you're hitting the dude in the middle, you're not going to win anything in the tournament, right? It's too dangerous. So you're going to try to light air, and you're going to hit mode shots. Sometimes the mode shot doesn't work, but it's fine. And what really doesn't work is the lab shot in the back of the thing. I should almost even zoom into the fucking thing and show people. But it's the lab shot. The lab shot sucks it all the way up into the multiball. And there is a huge magnet in the back that the orbit hits, then drops it into the lab. Sometimes the magnet doesn't work. It's a big-ass magnet, too. And then sometimes the air, when you drop it into the lab shot, it doesn't suck it all the way up. It just sits there fucking bouncing, right? And then sometimes it would go all the way up, and it wouldn't register. And then it does a ball search. And that is a code update. So to be fair to David Fix, David came up to me. He saw me wearing the wormhole shirt at TPF, and he goes, hey, how's Galactic Tank Force? And I'm like, well, you know, he goes, it's all going to be fixed in the new code update. So it's a software issue then. It was a major software issue. They also had major problems in between the scene cutting. Like you would go from this Empress lady to somebody else and go, you know, like 30 seconds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they fixed that. The shooter rod issues, we had to sand down the shooter rod. Even the shooter rod didn't really work properly, but we fixed that. we were really working with Maurice, but he apparently doesn't work there anymore. So when are you guys getting the barbecue game? No. I don't see that happening. Unless Christine wants to buy it. Christine bought this machine, so she gets a lot from us. You know what is really funny? One of our guys came up to me, and I was playing it the other day, and he goes, you know, out of all the machines here, this one costs the most? GTF? Yeah. Yeah. It looks nice. It does look nice. It looks nice. It does. They sent the wrong screws, did I tell you that? No. For the top, when we put the topper on, you know, the turret, I got the wrong screws. But they sent it, okay? I don't want to bash Buffalo Pinball. Don't suck me into your bashing Buffalo Pinball. That's right. That's how it happens. That's how it happens. I see you trying to do it for me, and I'm being positive. All right, good try, Jamie. Well, see, this is what usually Kevin is the instigator. Kevin knows me well enough. The stream will start off nice and calm, having a good day. And then, you know, like a puppet master or whatever, he hits the right keys, and then suddenly I just blank out for two minutes, and then I get people losing their minds at me. So that's how it goes. It's a winning formula. Great. Well, thank you for this. I already said earlier that I don't do well with criticism, so now I'm really effed. So this is great. All right, let's go to Rapid Round and wrap this up. Rapid round is just Donovan has like 10 questions. Rapid fire. All right. Best game of rules of pinball. Best rules. Best rules. Or code. Best rules code. Wow. I'm stumped. There you go, Donovan. There you go. That is a good question. Start off the rapid fire, Donovan. Best rules. Dude, I have no idea. I have no idea. I like the simplicity of World Cup soccer, and people are going to yell at me about that, but I like the simplicity of medieval madness. Yeah? These are games that I can get on play. I don't have to know, oh, he didn't hit his triple multiplier with the X on the I can't deal with it, man. I'm just not smart enough. So to me, hit the guy in the middle, and these make more sense to me. But I'm not that good at pinball. I'm 2,700 in the world. All right, let's move on from rapid fire. Better buffalo food, wings or pizza? Buffalo pizza. Buffalo pizza is terrible. Don't let anybody tell you differently. It can't be good, right? You're from the city, right? I'm from Long Island. and my father worked in Manhattan so I grew up going to Manhattan. I'm from the Bronx. Buffalo Wings, we don't call them Buffalo Wings but Wings are the best. People in Buffalo are under some weird delusion that they love their pizza but it's the weird pizza that... I like New York style pizza, right? Thin crust. Fold it up. Buffalo is the weird thing where... I'm going to decide you piss people off. You guys, Chicago deep dish, fine. Yeah, Janine and I are from Chicago. And then you get the, like the, I like the thin crust New York City style. And then Buffalo like meets in the middle. It's like cake or something. It's like, it's like a midsize. I don't know. It's not for me. No. Like a Sicilian. What is this? Is this a Sicilian? It's like thick. It's a little thicker. Okay. It would be like a pan pizza that the Italians would make. And they, they started selling it called Sicilian pizza. Yes. That's probably it. It's fine, but it's not real New York. I mean, New York is like Sicilian once in a while. Give me, give me thin crust. I don't want to just eat dough. Foosball or bubble hockey? I would go bubble hockey, yeah. What is the worst part of living in one of the snowiest cities in America? Just not being able to go outside. No sun, really. Being trapped indoors. That's why I have so much pinball machines. There you go. Better city, New York, Manhattan, or Toronto? New York, Manhattan, or Toronto? No, I mean New York or Toronto. New York or Toronto That's an even one for me See that's a Donovan question Because he knows he's going to piss me off Yeah Best playing card game of choice Best playing card game of choice It's like Texas Hold'em I guess I don't know why you put that there I'm going to have to ask him about these rapid fire We're going to have to talk You really stumped me though The question on the gate, I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight. It's like, what's the best rules in pinball? It's a good question. It really is. All right, there you go. Better reason to visit Texas, TPF or the wormhole? Oh, man, the wormhole. Thank you, sir. Nick Lane is playing in the finals for Pemberton. You can choose any game for the final match What are you picking Last one I leave it on that one I would go Iron Man There you go Nice and quick No one's up there for – dude, I don't want to see somebody play a game for 15 minutes and get demoralized. Let's just go. Let's get it over with. Did you watch the IFPA 19 this weekend? I did not. What did I miss? A lot of waiting. I hate waiting. They just wait a lot. I'm going to get in trouble for this. like the kids they wait in between each flyer god forbid he tilts that's 20 minutes right and then it's just it's just a long time they were playing long playing games that was the issue and they're playing long playing games they're just they're so smart first of all we have a kid i don't know if you noticed but kids are playing very very good pinball lately yeah because they they're not worried about world events or paying their bills or anything else going on like they're What's their biggest worry? Like, what time is ice cream? It's easy. If I was, like, 14 years old, I'd be amazing. Oh, if I could go back and go to be 15 years old right now, I'd do it in a heartbeat. There's really nothing worrying me except that, you know, I moved to Orlando. Wah, wah. That was hard. Okay? I mean, life is fucking hard, man. And these kids are coming in here, and they whip my ass, and they're really good pinballers, and congratulations to them. but they can play these games. So we have this tournament this weekend. I'm shifting, but we've got this major tournament, Barrels of Fun, Pimberg, Golden. We've got Banzai Run, right? And this is what the pros do. So Banzai Run, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but you light your riders, and then you can go up top, have all their beautiful. Well, they light one rider, which they can do off the skill set. They'll light the green dude, and then they won't hit the green dude when they go up top ever. And they'll just keep going up top, and then they'll get the stunt, and then they'll just do it again. And that's the game. But they can play that for 30 minutes on one ball almost. I mean, it's just unbelievable. And so what do we do? Well, we're trying to do everything we can. We're doing this, and we're not lotting lock, and we're not doing that. But they'll still get around it because they're that good. and so we bust their balls a little but in the serious tournament you just leave you just walk out the door for a little bit i hate long playing games and tournaments i just i despise them at this point yeah we got to fix them tonight we got to make sure because they can play the sterns that we have are foo 007 is playing hard we're okay with double o but foo is going to be in deadpool they can play those for a long time well what do you guys do to make them harder Well, you've got to take all the rubbers off. Yeah. We'll let him have one big move, but you can't have another big move. I'm okay with a big move, right? Yeah. Not until two. I think you need – I mean, like, moving the game is part of the game. It's part of the skill. Like, you don't want to – I don't like when games have – I don't like when they set up in tournaments where you just – you cannot touch the game. Like, that's, like – that's too much. That's too much. It is too much. Being skillful, being able to move the game and not get a warning, that's an art, and that's a thing that you can get good at and should be rewarded. But, yeah, I'm with you. It's tough. And some of the ones behind me, like Cosmic Princess, that's a Stern Australian. We just streamed that. They can play that forever. Forever. Because that's just left spinner all day. So we've got to figure out what to do with that tonight. So it's stressful because, you know, we've got Robert Byers and Wesley Johnson. I mean, I can name all these Texans that are coming. Garrett Sheahan, they're going to come and kick our butt. There's so much you can do. What do you like tournament-wise? 7-5-3-1, is that your favorite? I like match play. Yeah, 7-5-3-1. Match play is fun. I think what's good about match play, and not just trying to do a ticket and try to get the high score on a machine, is that it makes the game more dynamic, right? Because if you only need X amount of points to beat a player versus trying to get a high score, then you change your strategy up. You're constantly changing on the fly because you're not only trying to do well in the game, but you're trying to just do better than the players that you're with. So you're going to play it differently than just trying to get a high score. Yeah, I like that. I like that, too. I had one of the best players in the world on, Dan Lee Peck, and she said the same thing. She said she loves 7531. She'll go down swinging. That's the best format. I think the, you know, I still don't have a game in mind for best rules, the pressure of finding the best. But I think what makes a good game rule-wise is multiple paths to choose, multiple approaches. Like, I despise linear games. Right. Linear games are very boring. They're not interesting. I like the idea of choice, and there's not one right answer, right? Like, that's cool. Those are the best games, in my opinion. They are. Oh, you know, it's the best games to stream because we can go, oh, isn't that interesting? He's going middle. He's going to go middle here. He's not doing this. Oh, isn't that interesting? She's going to do this. I don't know. You're right. All right, Nick Lane, talk to me about one of the original people in Pimberg. Are you excited that it's coming back? And do you think it'll eventually get to where it was before? Or at least quote? Yeah, so one thing that Tim said in the video, which I totally agree with, you know, like, he said, like, Pop is coming back as well, or Pembroke, but they're like these tournaments in name only. You know, they're a totally different venue. They're using routed games, I understand. You know, Kevin's going to Pembroke, but to me, it's not, it's not Pembroke. It's just, it, I know what Pembroke is. I have the distinction. I've played in every single one of them from 2011 on, and there's, I think, only like 36 people that did. And I love that tournament. I miss it immensely. It's devastating that it doesn't exist because it was just such a fun format, Jamie. And you just get to see a lot of – every year it's like a reunion. You get to see so many people will come out for that, a thousand people, right, came out for that. A thousand people. You just got to see, like, friends in the community. And I miss that. And, like, we would come down with a van of our friends. they would get out from work, even people who aren't serious about pinball. It was perfect. So, yeah, you can call it Pinberg. You can have a lot of the same people involved in it, but it's just not the same to me. Can it get to where it needs to be? I don't know, man. I don't really know how it fell apart. It's such a bummer because they use dedicated games. I mean, those games that they used were just for Pinberg, just for Papa, and that's what you kind of need to really run a good tournament. It's an immense project to pull off. Yeah, thanks. I'm still having Ajita again for what you said about the museum. It's got me. You're worried about what the best rule set is, and in the back of my mind is how the hell are they going to do this museum? How are we going to do this? Yeah. They know. It's just – I'm good at identifying problems, you know, so apologies. No, no, no, no worries. Are you going to Expo in Chicago? I don't know. I'd like to. I always, in theory, like to. It really matters what's going on with work for me. Here's the deal. John and I and Tim are going. Okay. Well, that moves it up a notch. I mean, it's just a little on your T-chart, right? On the left side, a little more pros. Well, I think I've got to decide because you guys are doing your week of Whoppers when? In October as well? Yeah. Is the Expo in October? The week before. So I'd probably have to choose. I'd probably have to choose the Expo or I'd have to come down for the Week of Whoppers. Come down for the Week of Whoppers, then. Come down for the Week of Whoppers. We will roll it out for you. All right. In an ideal world, I'd do both. In an ideal world, we are doing both, which is ridiculous. I'm jealous. That's fun. Well, I went to my wife, beautiful, Janine, and I was pitching this idea. She's like, why are you selling me? Just ask. Do you want to go? And I'm like, yeah, I do. I want to go to Expo too. And she's like, oh. But I was doing this elaborate bullshit sales because I'm in sales. I can't help my damn self. I'd like to get out there because I want to see the guys in Jersey Jack and I want to see their facility. Yeah, I'd like to do that tour. Yeah. I've never done the Stern tour, and they got their new building, their newish building. So I'd love to do that. So, yeah, man, if I don't make one of those happen, I'd be super bummed. So I think I'll see you guys in one way or shape or the other. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. All right, Nick, thank you so much. When's your next podcast? And did you already record, bro, the newest bro? So we do everything live, you know, for both, which is amazing. I don't get myself into more trouble. So we're going to stream Elton John on Friday, this Friday the 14th. And then I think our next podcast is going to be Saturday the 29th. So one thing I will plug is we stream on both Twitch and YouTube. We do it live. We usually do a podcast once a month. It's usually on a Saturday. It's usually at 11 a.m. And we got giveaways. So we usually give away a set of Pinsidiums or Flippin' Outs giveaway stuff. So people who watch live can enter into that. We love giving stuff away. So there's an incentive. Awesome. Well, there you go. On Twitch, backslash Buffalo Pinball. YouTube, same thing. There you go. All right, Nick. Thanks so much, dude. I really, really appreciate you spending the time. I got you out of here almost an hour. Sorry. That was fun. It flew by. I enjoyed it. You stumped me, too. I was russet with that. You're going to get a random text three months from now, and I'll send you my answer. I agonize over it. It's a rush. You'll wake up in the middle of the night with a sweat. Yeah. It'll come to me. Just a matter of when. All right, brother. Thanks so much again. Appreciate it. I'll see you. Thank you so much, Nick Lane. I really appreciate it. I have so much work to do tonight on the tech stream and to get ready for the Pembroke Golden Ticket Tournament sponsored by Barrels of Fun. So this outro is going to be a little short. We do have that event. It is a two-day event. It is starting this Saturday. Doors open 830 for registration. Games turn on at 9 o'clock for practice. Announcements at 10. 52 players, 10 rounds. Two games each round. 7, 5, 3, 1. Let's go. We're going to stream that in its entirety on warmupinball.tv. On Sunday, we're going to have eight players with a buy, 16 additional players for the playoffs. Really great players. I'll post the the hold on on Sunday we have 8 players with a bye and 16 additional players for the playoffs we're going to be streaming the event again in its entirety, we got more batteries more cameras I got a roving cam, the room is covered with cameras, and we're going to be streaming live again on Twitch as well please come watch it, it's going to be an amazing production I put a lot of work into it, and I really appreciate the views, likes, subscriptions, all that crap. Tech Night in the Room Hole last week was a good success stream, and we're going to do it again tonight. So today is Wednesday. I'm not going to have this podcast up until Thursday. But tune in on Wednesdays when we're doing the live Tech Night. It really gives me and John a chance to fool. John, me a chance to fool with the cameras. and John a chance to engage with other techs across the Internet. So I like to end each podcast with a little feel-good story. Do you mind if I do one more? Let's do one more. I was joking with Nick that when we started this stream, we were terrible. I've said this before. Phil gave me everything to buy. I said it earlier. But when we started getting better, we were really given a really great opportunity by Phil Grimaldi Elizabeth Rone, Calma Calpine and all the execs you will of TPF gave us a chance to stream the 2022 TPF Classics and Wizards we had 200 followers on Twitch the day we streamed TPF Classics and Wizards that tournament put us on the map So, you know, ever since then, we've just gotten better and better, I think. So thank you, Phil Grimaldi, for everything. Kyle McCombe, Elizabeth Joneh, for just giving us this opportunity in 2022. I really, really appreciate all of your support. It means an awful lot. Okay, next week I have Bash Pinball, guys out of the Carolinas, and I can't wait to talk to them. We were going to do it again tonight, but I'm double booked. So Bash Pinball, check out their newest podcast. They're really doing a good job and they're funny. I really like them. That's all she wrote. Thank you guys so much. Thanks again, Nick Lane. And thank you for everyone at the wormhole. I really appreciate everything you guys do.