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Episode 373: Steve Ritchie & Jersey Jack Guarnieri

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·21m 8s·analyzed·Sep 18, 2023
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TL;DR

Steve Ritchie joins Jersey Jack; discusses new unannounced game and praises company culture.

Summary

Steve Ritchie (legendary pinball designer) and Jersey Jack Guarnieri are interviewed at Pintastic 2024, discussing Ritchie's transition to Jersey Jack Pinball, his passion for theme-driven game design, and an unannounced upcoming game. Ritchie praises Jersey Jack's software team (Keith Johnson, Joe Katz) and mechanical engineering, contrasts his experience there with previous roles where features were removed, and hints at excitement for his new project. Guarnieri discusses Godfather's success in bringing new audiences to pinball, recent hirings including Tom Capera, and Jersey Jack's design philosophy prioritizing both casual and competitive players.

Key Claims

  • Steve Ritchie's new game at Jersey Jack shoots amazingly, is very fast, and will make people say 'Steve Ritchie is back'

    high confidence · Jack Guarnieri's direct statement about the upcoming unreleased game: 'He made a really great game. And I think a lot of people will say Steve Ritchie is back, really... It shoots amazingly. It's very fast. I just love it.'

  • Ritchie's game is complete with no features removed, unlike his Led Zeppelin game where major elements were cut

    high confidence · Ritchie: 'They don't take things out of my game. My game is complete. It's all there' and 'Things got taken out of that [Led Zeppelin]. They definitely got taken out. It's like the biggest heartbreaker and the stupidest move is to remove Stairway to Heaven.'

  • Godfather pinball has brought new audiences into pinball who had never bought a machine before

    high confidence · Guarnieri: 'A lot of people that never bought a pinball machine heard that there's a Godfather pinball machine, and they bought Godfather, and it got them into pinball.'

  • Toy Story is the number one game on location according to operators

    medium confidence · Ritchie: 'I talk to every operator and if they have a toy story it's like yeah that's my number one toy story's number one game on location really'

  • Jersey Jack's software team (Keith Johnson, Joe Katz, and others) is the best Ritchie has ever worked with

    high confidence · Ritchie: 'The best software team I ever worked with. Wow. Yeah. Three guys. What's so cool about them is they're constantly communicating. There's no ego thing.'

  • Jersey Jack recently strengthened its mechanical engineering department

    high confidence · Ritchie: 'The mechanical engineering department at Jersey Jack became much stronger recently. And so all these things make it possible for us to build special machines, new things, new devices.'

  • Tom Capera was recently hired at Jersey Jack as an industry veteran

    high confidence · Guarnieri: 'Tom's a great guy. He's an industry veteran. He has a lot of experience in a lot of different aspects of pinball.'

Notable Quotes

  • “They don't take things out of my game. My game is complete. It's all there. That makes me very happy.”

    Steve Ritchie @ mid-conversation — Key statement about Jersey Jack's design philosophy and support for designer vision, contrasting with his prior experiences

  • “It's like having a vegan chef in a steakhouse. He's probably not going to cook meals that are too good. So you've got to get him to like, and the whole team has to be involved with what the theme of the game is.”

    Jack Guarnieri @ mid-conversation — Metaphor about the importance of theme alignment and designer passion

  • “The best software team I ever worked with... What's so cool about them is they're constantly communicating. There's no ego thing. It's just we have to make this great game.”

    Steve Ritchie @ mid-conversation — High praise for Jersey Jack's software engineering team dynamics

  • “He made a really great game. And I think a lot of people will say Steve Ritchie is back, really.”

    Jack Guarnieri @ mid-conversation — Direct hint about Ritchie's upcoming unreleased game, suggesting high quality and renewed prominence

  • “It's like the biggest heartbreaker and the stupidest move is to remove Stairway to Heaven. How can you have a Zeppelin game without Stairway to Heaven?”

    Steve Ritchie @ mid-conversation — Criticizes licensing or production decision that removed a key song from Led Zeppelin pinball

  • “I know that sounds silly, but I personally don't believe in bringing in people from outside the industry, veteran people from other industries to try to bolster what we do. We need people that already know what they're doing.”

    Jack Guarnieri @ mid-conversation — Philosophy on hiring at Jersey Jack, emphasizing industry expertise

  • “We look to support all the causes that expands pinball and helps bring more people through the game. And anything we can do to do that, that's what we're about.”

    Jack Guarnieri @ closing remarks — Statement about Jersey Jack's community commitment and expansion strategy

Entities

Steve RitchiepersonJersey Jack GuarnieripersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyKeith JohnsonpersonJoe KatzpersonTom CaperapersonMark Tremontiperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Godfather pinball has been hugely successful at bringing new, non-traditional audiences into pinball market; strategic licensing win with broad cultural appeal

    high · Jack: 'A lot of people that never bought a pinball machine heard that there's a Godfather pinball machine, and they bought Godfather, and it got them into pinball.'

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball strengthened mechanical engineering department recently; indicates capability expansion for new features and device development

    high · Ritchie: 'The mechanical engineering department at Jersey Jack became much stronger recently. And so all these things make it possible for us to build special machines, new things, new devices.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Jersey Jack continues heavy community involvement through events like Pintastic seminars, sponsorship of tours (Pinball Profile World Tour, Play the America Tour), and operator/collector support

    high · Jack: 'We want to support all the causes that expands pinball and helps bring more people through the game... anything we can do to do that, that's what we're about.' Also mentions sponsoring Jeff's tours 'without blinking an eye'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Jersey Jack emphasizes secondary market value and durability of its games (Wizard of Oz, Pirates, Willy Wonka, Guns N' Roses holding strong prices); quality/longevity as differentiation vs. competitors

    high · Jack: 'Go find the Wizard of Oz... You don't find these games... Still going for really good money... Those games won't fall apart, I tell you that.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Jersey Jack practices complete design support with no feature removal, contrasting with Ritchie's previous experience (Led Zeppelin had Stairway to Heaven removed)

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.063

0:00
The vows of love we make will live until we die. My life is yours and I'll be kind. It's time for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teels. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com, all our past episodes, subscriptions and more. We're on Twitter slash X. We're on Instagram at pinballprofile. We've got a great Facebook group as well. You can email pinballprofile at gmail.com. And if you'd like to show your support on Patreon, boy, that would be very, very kind. You can do so. Patreon.com slash pinballprofile. Thanks to great people like Jimmy Law and Lua W., Rodney C., so many others. I can't thank you enough for your continued support. This was recorded a week ago with a couple of very special guests. Okay, this is a special treat for me here at Pintastic. I am in the luxury suite of one Stephen Richey, who's here with Jersey Jack. And Jersey Jack's here himself. Hey, Steve, how are you? I'm doing great, Jeff.
1:04
Fun show. It's a great show. Lots of new games to play. And I don't know. I like the people here. Very different. It's good. I've seen you at Pintastic before, the old location. I know this is a place that's very important to you too, Jack. I love it. Gabe and his buddy started it years ago. I was at the first one, and I wouldn't miss it for anything. It's great. The last one I was at, and again, old location, that was when Willy Wonka came out. And you had the kids there and stuff and obviously now all grown up. But that was a huge success for Jersey Jack, for Willy Wonka. It was great. That was really great fun. We had the Wonka kids. And as you said, they'd grown up and everybody got a kick out of it. They signed autographs and took a lot of pictures. It was fun. But every show is fun. You know, with The Godfather now, it's really some reaction to it. It's just amazing. And later, we're going to have our seminar where Steve and I and Mark are going to speak a little bit and laugh and joke around. Then we're going to feed everybody with pizza. Then we have cannolis coming. And then today is Mike the Doner's birthday from Automated Services. So we've got a birthday cake coming from Mike. We're all going to sing him a happy birthday. I think I saw something you were signing for him. So that was very, very nice. It's a big birthday card. There are like 100 people, more than 100 people are signing the card. It was great. Okay. I'm going to ask Steve, because he's maybe made one or two games himself. That Godfather game that Jack's talking about, that is such a great game. Your thoughts on Godfather, Steve? It's pretty fun. I like playing it.

  • Godfather is Ritchie's favorite Jersey Jack game to date

    high confidence · Ritchie: 'It's my favorite Jersey Jack game, and I've said that to other people. And it's not like the others I didn't like. I've liked them all, but this one is just, there's something special about it.'

  • Ritchie has been at Jersey Jack for almost a couple of years

    high confidence · Jeff: 'You've been there for almost a couple of years now'

  • Two World Poker Tour sold only 1,700 units and was a letdown

    high confidence · Ritchie: 'Two World Poker Tour... and we ended up selling 1,700 and it was a let down.'

  • “You don't find these games... They're still going for really good money... Those games won't fall apart, I tell you that.”

    Jack Guarnieri @ mid-conversation — Claims about secondary market value and durability of Jersey Jack games (Wizard of Oz, Pirates of the Caribbean, Willy Wonka)

    • The Godfather
    game
    Led Zeppelingame
    Willy Wonkagame
    Toy Storygame
    Wizard of Ozgame
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Pirates of the Caribbeangame
    Two World Poker Tourgame
    Black Knightgame
    Jeff Teolisperson
    Pintasticevent
    Stern Pinballcompany

    high · Ritchie: 'They don't take things out of my game. My game is complete.' vs. 'Things got taken out of that [Led Zeppelin]. It's like the biggest heartbreaker and the stupidest move is to remove Stairway to Heaven.'

  • $

    market_signal: Jack teases upcoming Ritchie game with 'Steve Ritchie is back' narrative; positioning as major return/redemption story for legendary designer

    high · Jack: 'I think a lot of people will say Steve Ritchie is back, really.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Steve Ritchie, legendary designer from Stern, now at Jersey Jack Pinball for almost two years; significant talent migration from major manufacturer to premium boutique

    high · Jeff: 'You've been there for almost a couple of years now' and Ritchie's extensive discussion of being at Jersey Jack

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Tom Capera recently hired at Jersey Jack Pinball as industry veteran; signals company expansion and recruitment

    high · Jack: 'Recent hire at Jersey Jack... Tom's a great guy. He's an industry veteran. He has a lot of experience in a lot of different aspects of pinball.'

  • ?

    announcement: Steve Ritchie has an unannounced game in development at Jersey Jack; game shoots fast, is complete feature-wise, and represents a major new release

    high · Jack: 'He made a really great game... It shoots amazingly. It's very fast.' Ritchie hinted theme is exciting but would not discuss it: 'we're not gonna talk about that but I see the smile on your face'

    • 2:31
    It's a nice game that stays true to the movies, the theme and all that. It's, I don't know, fun to play. It is my favorite Jersey Jack game, and I've said that to other people. And it's not like the others I didn't like. I've liked them all, but this one is just, there's something special about it. Anyway, you don't have to say that. And I appreciate you saying that. You know, it's one of my favorites, too. Godfather is a theme. You know, I was working on that license for, you know, about four years ago I started. And it was great. Paramount was a great support. Eric and his team did a great job on it. It's just a lot of fun. And what it's done, I've noticed, I thought it would happen, but it is happening. A lot of people that never bought a pinball machine heard that there's a Godfather pinball machine, and they bought Godfather, and it got them into pinball. And I've gone to customers' homes when I heard games were going to be set up. I brought cannolis and set up, played the game with them and surprised them, and it's really a lot of fun. It's really a lot of fun. You know, it's a family game, just like we did Toy Story as a family theme, only Godfather is a different family. That's all. A little different, for sure, but you're right. When you can strike gold with a theme and The Godfather, you're talking about, look at any list, top five movies of all time and just how it changed movie making. And you've got it all in the game. And I mean to have Al Pacino and Marlon Brando and James Caan and all the other great actors from the movie and all the clips and voice calls and everything. It really makes it special.
    4:05
    Robert Duvall was in the movie too. Don't forget about Robert Duvall. Tom Higgins. Tom Hayden. Tom Hayden, sorry. You didn't forget. But I'll tell you this. The theme is near and dear to my heart, too. And, Steve, I know theme means a lot to you. So when you come to a company like Jersey Jack and we're so excited to see your game coming out, the theme is really, really important. It's everything. You know that. I mean, I have to love what I'm working on. It's just, you know, when you love what you're working on, the passion comes through. It's like, I don't know, something special happens to me where everything just has to be right. That's it. Have you had in your past and vast past at that, have you had themes come across your table and just said, that's not for me? Many. I didn't want a two-world poker tour, I'll tell you that much. It was like, I don't think we should do this, Gary. There's a good reason why we haven't done any poker games in 30 years. People don't care about it. and we ended up selling 1,700 and it was a let down. But again so theme is something important I know you excited about the next theme We not gonna talk about that but I see the smile on your face I know this is audio I know you looking forward to that You had different themes whether it be movies whether it be pop culture whether it be music Is there one that you prefer the best? And I know you've got a music background. I like mixing them up. I always have. A good band can make a great game, depending on how you work it and whatever. All of the themes, you know, like that, a music game or, you know, a movie game, it doesn't make any difference as long as it has the power, as long as I feel like, okay, I can make a great game with this material. You know, that's what's exciting about Steve being at Jersey Jack. You know that he's going to be given all the toys, and this is a man who loves toys. Jack, we're excited for that. Well, we let him loose, and he made something that, you know, I don't want to tease and do all that stuff, but I will. He made a really great game. And I think a lot of people will say Steve Ritchie is back, really. To me, it shoots amazingly. It's very fast. I just love it. You know, I would have to say that if I didn't, but it's better that I do love it, for real. And what you said about theme is good. You know, we used to joke around. It's like having a vegan chef in a steakhouse. He's probably not going to cook meals that are too good. So you've got to get him to like, and the whole team has to be involved with what the theme of the game is. You've got a great team at Jersey, Jack. It's, I don't want to say new for you. You've been there for almost a couple of years now. What's it like working with these guys? It's so much better than anywhere else I've ever worked. They don't take things out of my game. My game is complete. It's all there. That makes me very happy. You know, just to be able to do everything that we want to do, that we need to do. When I look at a game or a design, I think, how much money is it going to make? What can I do to make it make more money? What can I do to make you wish you owned this game? I mean, I think about all those things all the time. And this game checks all the boxes, no question. You say that with a wink in your eye. And I know the last game we saw from you was Led Zeppelin, my favorite band. And you love the band, too. I do. Things got taken out of that. They definitely got taken out. It's like the biggest heartbreaker and the stupidest move is to remove Stairway to Heaven. How can you have a Zeppelin game without Stairway to Heaven? They wouldn't do it. Wouldn't do it. It's too bad. But that's not going to be the case for sure when we see the new one from Jersey Jack. This has been a big year for you. We mentioned Godfather, but the location, the hirings. I have a feeling, you know, with a few more months left in the calendar, we're not done yet, are we, Jack? Maybe not. But never say never, you know. We like to keep our options open. And we'll have to see what the next few months have. Another wink in the eye. This audio, people don't see these winks here, but it's exciting because Jersey Jack has really just stepped it up. It starts with the promo videos, and it starts with the team as you get involved. I just interviewed Mark Tremonti, and he did, obviously, the work on Godfather. And he's been there since the beginning, even on Wizard of Oz and stuff. Mark's a good buddy of yours. Mark's a friend. Crazy to think of it, for 23 years. So he was a customer, and we became good friends, and he's involved in a lot of very good charities that we try to help out with. And it's just a fun component, having somebody that you are really good friends with, love the things that you love. It just makes it better. Steve, one thing Mark Tremonti told me about Jack was they got him and Eric to sing, on the Godfather.
    8:57
    It's something to see and hear. You've done a little bit of that yourself. Will we be hearing any Jack singing on any of your games? I hope not. No, sorry.
    9:07
    No, I mean... Listen, when Mark... You know, his charity, it's really to get you out of your comfort zone.
    9:18
    Mark probably told you that. It's to get you to do something that you're not comfortable doing. when I was a kid I was in the choir and I sang and one day my voice changed and I got thrown out of the choir true story in the middle of practice in front of hundreds of other people in the choir Jackie wait it's you get out and I got thrown right out I can't sing my wife is a singer she's in the choir Joanne's got a great voice so I said Mark you know you gotta talk to Joanne about me singing so we called her up and Mark said do you have any advice for Jack if he's going to sing this song and Joanne said, well, don't. That was her advice. And after I heard myself, I knew she was right. But it had to be fun. It was fun, you know. You go in front of this amazing band, all these musicians, all these professionals, you know. Eric practiced for months and months and months. He was singing in his car. He was singing in his car. His kids were singing. Me, I don't even know what A from B and C. I couldn't carry a tune in a basket. I did ask Mark, which is better, your singing or your cartwheels? He said it was a close race.
    10:29
    Well I since stopped doing cartwheels A couple of my friends called me up and said Hey you know you might break a hip at this point
    10:39
    It's not fun. Getting old, it's not for the weak, that's for sure. Nothing good about getting old. Nothing at all. No, nothing. Well, it's better than not getting old. Okay, okay. Better than that. Yep, good alternative. Now, this November 1st marks my 8th anniversary of doing Pinball Profile. The very first one I ever did was with this man right here, Steve Ritchie. back in the cafeteria, the first one ever, I just was doing a tour of the facility. You were there. I'm like, hey, do you have 10, 15 minutes? I pulled out the phone. Were you sitting, Steve, in front of like the 45 microwave oven? It was in the cafeteria. It was. Was it really? Yeah, it was. And you were kind enough to give me 10, 15 minutes, and that's what started this podcast. That's interesting. So I appreciate that. No, and to see yourself there, and I told you the story. I've repeated it. It was Black Knight that got me into pinball. It was just, I love the flow of it, the magnets, everything. I still like the game to this day, like all three of them, in fact. And that's why I'm excited to see what's coming from you with Jersey Jack. Well, one cool thing is that Jersey Jack, they don't set up, they never did set up anything like you have to do this or this or this or this. They never said that to me. No one ever said it to me. So it's like I did what I could. And it turned out that we're not done, but we're getting there. It turned out that it was a very special crew. Maybe one of the – I do want to say this. Okay, the best software team I ever worked with. Wow. Yeah. Three guys. What's so cool about them is they're constantly communicating. There's no ego thing. It's just we have to make this great game. What do you think? Okay, we're going to get together and make the rules, set it up, check it out. If it's fun, we keep it. If it's not, we improve it. Okay, so things just go like that. Also, the mechanical engineering department at Jersey Jack became much stronger recently. And so all these things make it possible for us to build special machines, new things, new devices. I'm looking forward to it because you talk about that software team. I'm a big fan of Keith Johnson, Joe Katz, and I'm probably forgetting some of the other people there, but it's a great team. And those two gentlemen are wonderful pinball players too. And there's something about that when it comes to software. Oh, there's no doubt. I love having them on the game for all the high-end features that I'm never going to get. But they will satisfy all the players that can get there. And I love that about them. And also, I'm kind of the guy like I'm every man's champion. If I need an extra ball to go further, I'm not that good. So if I need an extra ball to go further, I will ask them to put it in at a certain place. And don't give me that because that's, you know, difficult words or things they set up. Not these guys. These guys are veterans, but other software people I work with. Here's a great call, a thing you never want to read on the display. It's like, attribute awarded.
    13:32
    Attribute awarded. It's a weird thing. Sure. But sometimes coders do this stuff. It never reached the light of day. Not that one. I can see the excitement you have for your upcoming game. Recent hire at Jersey Jack. Tell us about Tom Capera. Well, Tom's a great guy. He's an industry veteran. He has a lot of experience in a lot of different aspects of pinball. And that's what we need. We need pinball people to build pinball machines. I know that sounds silly, but I personally don't believe in bringing in people from outside the industry, veteran people from other industries to try to bolster what we do. we need people that already know what they're doing yes we can train people on the job kind of thing certainly but we need people that know the difference between a cornfield and a playfield for sure you gotta water the cornfield yeah don't water the cornfield well I didn't talk about you Steve I figured you might know the difference between a cornfield and a playfield I do the cornfield has a corn in it that tastes good You know, the scarecrow was in the cornfield. That's right. And the scarecrow was on the playfield. Yeah. So there was a cornfield on the playfield, if you want to trigger it. I don't know what game that was. Wizard of Oz. Okay, well, sorry. I thought the cornfield might have been on, like, Walking Dead. There could be. In the barn, maybe, perhaps. Who knows? I remember some cornfield scene. It's known out. Yeah.
    15:07
    I can't thank you enough, Steve, for giving so much to pinball, for making me a fan for life. You know what? Even poured me a drink here. I've got a rum and Coke, too. Thank you. Cheers, my friend. Cheers. Thanks for that. But also, you know, Jack, you've been wonderful for me personally as well, too. I've ran the Pinball Profile World Tour event. I've run the Pinball Profile Play the America Tour. Without blinking an eye, you have been so generous to make this successful. So thank you for that. Well, we want to support all the causes that expands pinball and helps, you know, bring more people through the game. and anything we can do to do that, that's what we're about. Look we sell everything nobody needs I said that for many many years It kind of a funny thing to say We trying to bring more smiles to people and make people happy and forget the troubles and collect something that fun and just have a great time playing it with their family And this show, you can see downstairs, there are so many young people here. I mean, really little kids, you know, playing pinball. And it's really great to see it. I always love seeing kids play pinball and they love it they're the future i got i got hooked at 10 with black knight and have been ever since and there are all kinds of great themes too willie wonka is a great thing toy story i talk to every operator and if they have a toy story it's like yeah that's my number one toy story's number one game on location really um yeah you know it's funny to go back a little bit but i was just amazed being in the industry as long as i have that no other manufacturer of any other piece of equipment, any kind of route game or FEC kind of game, went to Disney and licensed Toy Story for a video game or some other type of game. And I was the first. And only, apparently, it's a great, great, great license. You know, that original movie came out, I think it was in 95. So even if you're 40 or plus, you remember when that movie came out and you're like, okay, this is a great theme. I have kids now. This is a great machine for them. That's important to you too, Steve. You have always cared about the operators and wanting people to play again and put in more quarters. Definitely. I'll do whatever I have to or can do to make that happen.
    17:22
    You know, Toy Story is a fun game, no doubt. And it's like, I don't know, I can't think of a place where they would say, oh, we don't want that. You know, it's just such a family theme. It's a good theme. Yeah, it's a game that opens doors, really. But it's not my kind of theme.
    17:39
    No, but you can appreciate it from an operator. If you own an arcade, you want that. I appreciate every good pinball I've ever seen. And, you know, it's like I have to give it credit. And that's one thing about Jersey Jack games, I'm sure, with your game. You talked about the software engineering. These are great games for location, but also for the homeowners, which is a big part of the market now because they get to go so deep on these games. You're never completing these games very quickly. It's very important with your games. Yeah, you want to have a high end. You want something for everybody. If they're great players, they're not great players. There aren't so many. I guess one criticism I would say of guys that play pinball great, I think they think differently. And I think, you know, I still have to keep the player who has to spend a lot of money to have a good time on a pinball machine. They're in the forefront of my mind. The good players, they're going to manage. They're going to manage. You know, Jeff, I was thinking as you were talking about operators, certainly I was an operator many, many years. street locations and arcades and things like that. And one thing I learned early was it didn't matter what the game cost. It matters what the game made, right? And I learned that very early. And in 1980, if you go back then, I bought a sit-down driving game called Monaco GP by Sega. That game in 1980 money was $3,600. And that game on location at $0.50 a day was making like $500, $400 a day. Paid for it in a week. Yeah, so, you know, I know a lot of operators, they're afraid to spend more than a certain amount of money. They think they're not going to get it back. But if you buy our games, not only do you get it back in the cash box for the bill acceptor or the card swipe, you get it back in the residual if you want to sell that game years later. So I can lose money. Even with inflation and the economy and everything, some things have come down, certainly. Great. It's not the go-go time during COVID. But they still, I wouldn't guarantee it, but I tell you what, go find the Wizard of Oz. Go find the Pirates of the Caribbean. Go find the Willy Wonka game. You don't find these games. You know, we built like 5,000 Guns and Roses, you know. So, yeah, you're going to see a couple of used ones here and there. You know, people need to make room. But they're still going for really good money. And it's something to be really proud of, the whole company and the whole team and the way we designed something. It's designed for the future. It's not just designed for today. And those games won't fall apart, I tell you that. Go lift up one of the Godfather games and see what that game is built like. Look at that game. Compare it to any other game in the market. Put it side by side. Go through it. Open it up. You know where the money is. The money is in that machine. That's where it is. It's in the machine. And if you're lucky, you might find a cannoli in there. You never know. I hope it's fresh and refrigerated. You might have to put a refrigerator in the next Godfather games. Jack, Steve, I know you guys are busy. Pintastic. In fact, I have to go play Guns N' Roses right now in the playoffs. Thank you very much, gentlemen. It means a lot to me. Our pleasure, Jeff. It was fun, man. Jeff, we love you and thank you for everything. You're a big advocate and supporter of pinball. Thank you for everything you do. Thank you, gentlemen. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. I'm Jeff Teels.
    20:58
    Oh, this is going to be the worst thing in the world. The vows of love we make, we live until we die.