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Episode 106 RAWRRRRR!!! Godzilla!

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Oct 15, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Stern Godzilla praised but $300+ price hike frustrates collectors and operators.

Summary

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast episode discussing the newly released Stern Godzilla pinball machine and the significant $300 price increase across Stern's new releases. Hosts and guest Mike Harry Williams praise Godzilla's artwork and mechanical design but express frustration over pricing strategy, particularly regarding how Stern retroactively charged existing customers for the Insider Connected system. Discussion includes speculation about future price increases tied to supply chain and material cost inflation.

Key Claims

  • Stern has increased prices by $300 across Pro and Premium editions; LE models increased by $500

    high confidence · Hosts discussing confirmed pricing structure from Sam Stern Army webinar and official channels

  • The Insider Connected system (Bluetooth-enabled apron with QR code functionality) will retail for approximately $299

    medium confidence · Host stated 'they're going to be selling it for $299' but noted this has not been officially confirmed yet

  • Raw material costs have increased approximately 40% across industries

    medium confidence · Host claims this is industry average, attributed to 'Papa Duke average' observation; used to justify price increases

  • Stern retroactively charged existing customers $300 more for already-ordered machines due to Insider Connected inclusion

    high confidence · Multiple examples provided: Deadpool orders pushed to 2022 now subject to new pricing; customers previously ordered at old prices being billed additional amounts

  • On January 1st (new year), all Stern machines will move to Godzilla's new price tier

    high confidence · Confirmed during Sam Stern Army webinar; hosts cite this as official announcement rather than rumor

  • Jeremy Packer's artwork direction for Godzilla is culturally favored and criticism is socially suppressed

    medium confidence · Host notes 'unwritten rule that you can't say anything bad about Jeremy Jeremy Packer' and speculates people withhold criticism to avoid hurting feelings

  • Keith Elwin's design work on Godzilla is among his best work, with superior flow and shot layout compared to recent Stern releases

    medium confidence · Mike Harry Williams opinion: 'that boy knows how to make games' and praised the layout; host initially sought reasons to dislike it but couldn't find any

  • Pro models are now effectively at Premium pricing; Premium at LE pricing; LE at Jersey Jack Pinball pricing

    high confidence · Host's tier-shift summary: 'everything shifted up a tier' with no affordable entry-level Pro option remaining

Notable Quotes

  • “I want to find something to dislike about this game so I don't feel bad about not buying it. And I just couldn't do it.”

    Mike Harry Williams @ mid-episode — Captures the tension between game quality/design and affordability for collectors; illustrates market price ceiling frustration

  • “The reason I'm upset—if Sam Stern wants to charge $10,000 for a Pro, that's fine, right? That's their prerogative. But some people have paid for their games months ago, and now they're being hit up for $300. That is wrong.”

    Host @ pricing segment — Core complaint about retroactive pricing on pre-ordered machines; captures operator/collector grievance about fairness

  • “Pro Edition are now at Premium Edition price. Premium Edition are now at Limited Edition price. Limited Edition are now at Jersey Jack Pinball price.”

    Host @ pricing analysis — Concise articulation of market tier compression; illustrates how pricing has shifted all categories upward

  • “There's this unwritten rule that you can't say anything bad about Jeremy Jeremy Packer. I've never seen any bad Jeremy Jeremy Packer art, but I think there's people out there that even if they did dislike it, they might not say it because they don't want to hurt his feelings.”

    Host @ artwork discussion — Meta-commentary on community dynamics; suggests social pressure may suppress honest criticism in tight-knit pinball community

  • “Everything I want in the game is there. There's multiple flippers, multiple angles, multiple shots. It just looks phenomenal. But it's not going to be in my game room. And why is that? I just can't handle the price.”

    Mike Harry Williams @ early episode — Summarizes the core tension: Godzilla is mechanically excellent but pricing barrier prevents purchase

  • “I can sell one machine and buy whatever I need for my family. A guy was selling them to help pay for his daughter's wedding.”

    Mike Harry Williams @ secondary market discussion — Illustrates that used pinball machines now function as significant alternative investments/financial assets

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyZach SharpepersonMike Harry WilliamspersonGodzillagameKeith ElwinpersonJeremy PackerpersonFlip N Out Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern has implemented a three-tier price increase structure: Pro +$300, Premium +$300, LE +$500, with further increases planned for January 1st new year

    high · Confirmed via Sam Stern Army webinar; all new machines from that point forward at Godzilla pricing

  • ?

    pricing_signal: Effective market tier compression: Pro models now priced at previous Premium levels; Premium at previous LE levels; LE at Jersey Jack Pinball price points

    high · Host's explicit tier-shift summary: 'everything shifted up a tier'

  • $

    market_signal: Retroactive pricing applied to backlogged orders—customers with pre-orders from prior months being charged new prices when delivery occurs in 2022

    high · Documented example: Deadpool order delayed to 2022, customer charged $300 additional; customer canceled order

  • ?

    community_signal: Significant sentiment shift: community frustration over fairness of retroactive pricing despite positive reception of game quality

    high · Tim Dan Lee vocal opposition; host and guest agreement on ethical concerns; though acknowledging Stern's right to set prices, the execution method created 'sour taste'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Raw material costs reported at 40% increase across industries; transportation and trucking costs cited as ongoing pressure points

    medium · Host cites 'Papa Duke average' for industry-wide material inflation; Mike Harry Williams notes trucking industry knowledge suggests continued increases expected

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.215

0:00
This episode of the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast is brought to you by Flippin' Out Pinball. You want a new pinball machine? Call Zach. 812-457-9711. You want a new game from Stern? Call Zach. You want a new game from JJP? Call Zach. You want a new game from American Pinball? Call Zach. How about CGC? Call Zach. You want a stair-climbing escalera? Guess what? Call Zach. 812-457-9711. That's Flippin' Out Pinball. we are also brought to you by pinballprices.com just what the doctor ordered go to pinballprices.com to check out all the archive sales past present and future maybe not future but go check out pinballprices.com for every sale that's been logged by doc finlay we love doc here at the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, pinballprices.com.
1:17
Help us, people on subway trains Scream the guide as he looks in on them He picks up a bus and he throws it back down As he waves to the building towards the center of town Oh no, they say he's got to go Go, go, Godzilla Yeah Oh no, they're going to Tokyo Go, go, Godzilla Yeah
2:09
All right, you ready for the shit? I'm ready for the shit show. Okay, well, that's what we do here. That's what we do best here, poor mans.
2:21
So with me today, I have a very special guest. We have with us Mike Williams. How you doing tonight, Drew? Oh, living the dream, living the dream, sir. This is a monumental moment. Can I tell you why? Sure, tell me why. This is the first episode since Ian has left that I am actually buzzed before I got started.
2:46

  • Further price increases are likely in 2022 due to ongoing supply chain and transportation cost pressures

    low confidence · Mike Harry Williams prediction based on trucking industry knowledge and delivery costs; not confirmed by Stern

    • “I think prices are going to go up again next year, and that's based strictly on my knowledge of the trucking industry and what it's taking for deliveries and costs.”

    Mike Harry Williams @ future prediction — Insider perspective from operator on supply chain pressures driving continued inflation

    Stern Insider Connected
    product
    Sam Stern Armyorganization
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Deadpoolgame
    Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization
    Scott Ianperson
    Tim Dan Leeperson
    Donperson
    Medieval Madnessgame
    Black Knightgame
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Star Wars: The Mandaloriangame
    MGCevent
  • ?

    product_launch: Godzilla released as new Stern title establishing new baseline pricing; Keith Elwin design, Jeremy Packer artwork, mechanical collapsing building feature

    high · Detailed gameplay and mechanical discussion; artwork analysis; pricing explicitly tied to Godzilla as reference point

  • ?

    design_innovation: Godzilla features collapsing/raising building toy mechanism with multiball trapping on top; Premium edition includes bridge-splitting diverter feature

    high · Detailed mechanical praise; comparison to similar features in Earthshaker and Doctor Who; guest notes implementation as 'phenomenally cool trick'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Stern Sam Army webinar provides operators advance notice of pricing and product information; participants include event operators and potential early adopters

    high · Mike Harry Williams describes webinar structure, timing relative to dealer releases, and operational benefit for location decisions

  • ?

    technology_signal: Insider Connected system (Bluetooth apron, QR code, interactivity integration) now standard on all new Stern games; approximately $299 retail value

    medium · Described as justification for $300 price increase; noted as 'not yet confirmed' at $299 pricing; components include Bluetooth connectivity and QR scanning

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community cultural norm observed: hesitancy to publicly criticize Jeremy Packer artwork due to his reputation and perceived sensitivity

    medium · Host explicitly notes 'unwritten rule that you can't say anything bad about Jeremy Jeremy Packer'; speculates people withhold criticism to avoid hurt feelings

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball pricing referenced as market comparison point; Stern LE now positioned at JJP price tier

    medium · Host's pricing tier analysis: Limited Edition machines now at 'Jersey Jack Pinball price' levels

  • ?

    collector_signal: Secondary market for used pinball machines functioning as significant financial asset; machines sold to finance major life events (weddings, vehicles)

    medium · Example of seller using machine sales to fund daughter's wedding; instances of single machine sale covering car/motorcycle purchases

    • Oh, I had one of those days too. It was. It was a long day, and I started having a few drinks with the wife. She went to bed, and now, yeah, feeling good, feeling warm, feeling fuzzy. And, yeah, so I got to ask you, Mike, what you drinking today, buddy? Oh, tonight it's fairly simple. Tonight, it's J. Henry Bourbon and Club Soda. Figured I'd keep it simple tonight. Oh, I love it. I am also doing simple. I am doing Old Forrester with some Diet Coke. As simple as it comes, but it's delicious and it's awesome. I got a little twist of lime and some ice and we're good to go. Nice. Now, which Old Forrester is that? Because there's like five different variants. Yeah, this is just the standard. Just the Old Forester, Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, 86 proof. I've tried a couple of the other ones, but yeah. My father-in-law turned me on to this stuff. It's really, really good. I enjoy it. I like using Old Forester as a mixer. It's really good. Yes. Yes, it is perfect.
    3:50
    So, we know what we're drinking today, but I want to tell all of our awesome listeners what's on tap. So today, we're going to be talking about Godzilla. I know we're a little late, guys. but Godzilla's still out. It's still hot. I want to talk about it. I want to see what Mike's thoughts are on this. So we're going to talk Godzilla. We're going to talk new Stern pricing. That has been on everybody's mind. We'll dive deep into that. We'll talk about the price increases. We'll talk about what it means for pinball moving forward. We're going to talk about the Stern Insider Connected, part of the reason of the price increase. Not the entire reason, mind you, but part of it. And we're going to talk about the upcoming shows. We got Expo, we got MGC, we got a couple coming next year. Texas Pinball Festival will be back, so we're going to talk about some of that, and we're going to have a great show. What do you think about that, Mike? I think that sounds like an awesome time, man. I can't wait. All right. You ready to dive right in?
    4:46
    Let's jump into it. Cool. Godzilla. We'll go through step by step, Mike, but what were your initial reactions when you saw Godzilla? When I initially saw it, I was thinking, oh my god, Jeremy nailed it again. And I know a lot of people have been dissing him for some of the color choices, but I love it. When I have a game in the game room or if I'm on location somewhere, I want it to pop. And that's exactly what it does. So I think he did it. He nailed it perfectly. So from a look standpoint. But then from a toy standpoint, oh my god, I love the way this thing looks. from the disappearing building to the collapsing bridge to that new Newton magnet. It is phenomenal.
    5:34
    There's everything I want in the game. There's multiple flippers, multiple angles, multiple shots. It just looks phenomenal. But it's not going to be in my game room.
    5:44
    And why is that? I just can't handle the price. I mean, even with the show deals. This year, I know at MGC, the show deal is for some amount off. I don't remember what it is.
    5:57
    Usually $500 or $600. Yeah. So let's not get too far into that because we will be talking about the price increase. But let's just kind of go back. Let's go back to the game, yeah. Yeah, I do agree with your synopsis on the art.
    6:12
    I was never a Godzilla fan, and Ian mocked me mercilessly about this, you know, because he's a big horror fan. He's into all these monster movies. and I think they're cool enough. I just never saw them just the way it is. So I don't have much of a frame of reference. So this thing came out, and I'm like you. I'm like, holy shit, you know, Zombie Yeti did it again, right?
    6:36
    Exactly. I mean, it's just when you look at how even that sculpt in the back looks, it just looks cool. It fits. It fits so much better than the Grogu. I mean, it just works with the machine.
    6:51
    Yeah. So the art, I mean, I can't say anything bad about it. It's a great-looking machine. It's colorful. I know a lot of people wanted to see a black-and-white version. And, you know, I guess if I was Stern, maybe I would have released the special black-and-white version if people wanted it. You know, you could have probably cashed in. But, you know, it's beautiful. People actually want that? Yeah. I think they're in the minority, quite honestly.
    7:19
    They're having a few comments I saw here and there. but I think overwhelmingly everyone kind of really liked the artwork. But I will say this. I think, you know, there's this unwritten rule that you can't say anything bad about Zombie Yeti.
    7:35
    You know what I mean? And I've never seen any bad Zombie Yeti art. I've liked it all. But I think there's people out there that even if they did dislike it, they might not say it because they don't want to hurt his feelings. And that's fine. Does that make sense? It does, but for people to want to say something bad about him, that means he's got to do something bad. Well, no, I agree. Like I said, every art piece that I've ever seen of his is amazing, but I know there's been these little murmurs kind of going through about, yes, technically it's a great piece, but then they add that but. It's like people don't want to diss Spooky. Yes, exactly. So I guess the worst criticism he got was, hey, it looks great, but it doesn't fit the theme.
    8:28
    See, and I would argue that one all night and day. Sure. No, like I said, I don't have much of a frame of reference, so I think it's beautiful.
    8:37
    Well, if you think about it, probably the majority of people who see this thing on location, they're not going to have that frame of reference either. I mean, I grew up in the late 70s where I'd still watch black and white TV at night occasionally. I mean, hell, I remember watching Buck Rogers at night. But I would watch, you know, the old Godzilla reruns. And I saw him in black and white. And I think this does such a much better interpretation than a black and white interpretation could.
    9:04
    Well, and it's pinball in 2021. You know, that's why I tell these people that are so critical about stuff. like it's it's a bright colorful game in 2021 and it really knocks it out of the park in my opinion so yeah enough said about that let's let's let's move on to you know the main event what what do you think about how this game looks the layout the shots the keith elwyn x factor if you will the keith elwyn x factor um i that boy that boy knows how to make games he does and it's one of those things I sat there and I looked at and I was like, you know, I want to find something to dislike about this game so I don't feel bad about not buying it. And I just couldn't do it. I was looking at the layout and I was like, oh God, I love the way this thing flows. Oh man, I love where these shots go. And I wanted to find something to hate it so I could just clutch onto that and say, okay, yeah, that's my reason for not getting it. Other then I'm just a cheap bastard.
    10:06
    Nope, nope. The secret's out. Mike's a cheap bastard. That's why he's not getting it. Go ahead. Sorry. No, that's fine. That's fine. But with that raising and lowering building, just like in Earthshaker, I love that feature in Earthshaker. I love it in Doctor Who, and I think he did a great implementation of it here. The fact that the multi-ball is trapped on top, that's just cool. It reminded me of with the ball sitting up there with like Aerosmith and the balls coming out of the chest because that was always a really cool feature to me on Aerosmith. And that's how I think this looks. Is it just the ball sitting on top and rolling over? That's cool from a visual standpoint. and then also like when you are the premium obviously playing the premium and you uh split the bridge that is a phenomenally cool trick not not to mention that it's a really cool piece of engineering so i like it both i'll tell you when i saw this game and once again i have zero frame a reference with Godzilla. You know, I just, I never watched them. So, so coming into this, I wasn't excited at all because I was like, okay, here's this movie, you know, a bunch of movies I've never seen. You know, I know what Godzilla is and I'm like, okay, great. But then I see the game and from a pinball perspective, now I start doing these mental gymnastics where I'm like, okay, which is my favorite Keith Alwyn game? And I'll tell you, Jurassic Park, of his four, is my favorite theme, okay? I own that game. Yeah, exactly, hands down. I love that theme. I own that game. That game is no longer in my collection.
    12:00
    You know, and part of it is it just didn't quite hold my attention the way I wanted it to. But then I saw this, and I'm like, you know, I started missing my Iron Maiden again. I started missing Jurassic Park a little bit.
    12:13
    Zach at Flippin' Out Pinball, him and Nicole were so gracious to borrow me Avengers when my Turtles was at Stern being fixed.
    12:22
    So, you know, I've had all of Keith Elwin's games now in my home, and I'll be goddamned if this thing is not one of the – I haven't even played it yet, and I'm like, this might be the one, right? Exactly. So, you know what? It might come home at some point. I don't know quite yet. I'm not there yet. I know they're going to be making them for a few years, but I'm going to see what Stern comes out with next because now I kind of have this, you know, wait and see type attitude as opposed to I need every new game.
    12:54
    Because, you know, we all know Stern, right? In two months they're going to release something else. Oh, exactly. And two months from now maybe I'm like, that's my Christmas present instead of something else. Who knows? But all that to say that, yeah, the thing looks great. I think it's going to shoot great. Those toys. And this is one of those rare Stern games, again, where you cannot go pro with this thing. You just can't. There's zero chance to go pro with this thing.
    13:22
    Yeah, I know. And it's that not being able to go pro that pushes you over to that price tier that is the ouch factor for me. because I just can't swallow that anymore. But in terms of... That's what she said.
    13:40
    We're back, baby. In terms of the gameplay, I'll get to know real soon here when I think of the pros because I know there's a couple of them coming to Madison. And in theory, they're supposed to be here this week. Okay. I'll know real soon what the gameplay on the pros is going to be. Well, at least you'll get an idea of the shots and layout because obviously the shots and layout are the same, but then you have the couple of diverters and different things that will move the ball around in a different way. But, yeah, holy cow, am I just impressed with this entire package. So let's move on. I mean, obviously we can't talk about rules because we don't know what the rules are. We haven't played it.
    14:24
    We talked about art. We talked about layout. You kind of touched on the toys. do you i mean obviously stern spent more money on this one than they have in the past handful of releases their their price increase and people will you know slay me for this but i think it's really justified by the increase in the bomb i really do i mean okay it's a two-fold factor here it's not just the bomb went up it's everything else and i could go into raw material and shipping costs and all those other types of increases. Wait, wait, wait. Stuff costs money?
    15:04
    Stuff costs a shit ton of money. I'm an economist, right? Cost money. Okay, go ahead. Yeah. I know in my industry alone, we've seen raw material prices increase 40%. Those prices have to be passed on to the customer.
    15:19
    Stern's feeling the same type of thing. If they have a bigger bomb, it's not just a bigger bomb. It's a bigger bomb that costs more now that they're putting in there. Because even if they wouldn't have put all the mechs in the game, they still would have been paying more for the game just because of the raw materials. Exactly. I'm guessing they're probably feeling – and the numbers I'm seeing is 40% is pretty average for what most industries are paying for additional prices for their raw materials. I'm going to guess Stern's probably at the same point. I mean, it's not unreasonable.
    15:53
    That price has to get passed somewhere. so okay well you know because we can't talk about the rules and stuff let's let's just kind of we can move on to this this price increase so so you're you're maintaining that the reason by the way for anyone who doesn't know all of the new games that are coming out from stern right now have gotten a 300 price increase right true it's a 300 so pros premiums and then the alleys went up $500, but that doesn't affect most people because there's only 500 or 1,000 of them, right?
    16:28
    So pros and premiums have gone up $300. And as of right now, Stern is basically saying that is almost 100% because of the Stern Insider apron, correct? Yes. Yeah. Right? Because they're going to be selling it for $299. Has that been confirmed yet? That has not been confirmed yet. Okay. So every new game that comes out of Stern's factory now has the Stern Insider connected, which consists of an apron, a QR code, a Bluetooth, basically interactivity right underneath the apron is essentially what you're getting.
    17:08
    So if those kits... Get that 50 cent Wi-Fi dongle. Oh, 50 cents. It's at least 62 cents with inflation. so I'm just kind of trying to set the scene for everyone as Mike's making a new drink here Mike you're a lush, this is not the show for you sir by the way Mike and I are like on video chat now on Zencaster so we can see each other so I'm watching him make drinks he's watching me make drinks, it's fabulous so anyways $300 price increase and we're saying that's solely because of Insider Connected but the rumor is And I don think it been confirmed yet that as of the first of the year those prices are going to go even higher though and that just a price increase across the board It not a rumor It every machine the first of the year gets the new price points that Godzilla has Well, and the reason I say it's a rumor is because, you know, we obviously have friends on the inside. Has this actually been, like, announced?
    18:13
    I know today in the Stern Army webinar they were talking about it. So they're talking about it openly. As long as you mention that, why don't you just tell everyone why you're privy to the Stern Army webinars and what that is. The Stern Army webinar is a really cool thing that Stern does for people who are in the Stern Army. And from what I can tell, I don't know for certain who else is in there because I only talk to some other people. Every other person I know that's in it, though, is an operator.
    18:45
    And maybe there's other people in it. But it's people who run events. And so everyone who runs these Stern Army events gets invited to these things. And Mike does that, by the way. Way to go, Mike. Thank you. Yeah, I run anywhere from one to four events a month, depending on the month.
    19:06
    But you get invited to the Stern Army specialty things by running these Stern Army events. And it's really kind of cool because every time they do like a dealer release, the Stern Army members get the presentation immediately after it's presented to the dealers. And so we have a good idea of what's coming, and it's good from an operator standpoint so you can make decisions about what to put on location.
    19:35
    So that's why it's nice. but then also from people who run events, you got an idea of what's coming and how things will work. So who ran this webinar that you just saw?
    19:48
    They have a dedicated person. Like someone in the marketing department maybe? Okay. So what did they specifically say about the price that you can recall?
    20:00
    You caught me on my fourth drink. Poor man's exclusive. Four drinks in. Ready, go. Crap. What they said is all the prices would be the same as Godzilla come first of the year. Okay, so we can now officially confirm that because I have some friends on the inside. I don't name drop. Mike's the same.
    20:24
    But he obviously, the Stern Army is a lot of different types of people, and they said that specifically. Okay, right? Yeah. Okay, so back to that. So $300 today, any game going forward, and then the first of the year, we're at Godzilla price, which is essentially, let's just call it $1,000. You figure in tax, shipping, whatever else you're talking about, depending on your situation. You're talking $1,000 more than you were paying six months ago, right? Exactly, exactly. I think of it even simpler than that. Pros are now at premium price. Premiums are now at LE price. LEs are now at JJP price. that's an interesting way I really like that Mike so everything shifted up a tier and there is no more pro I guess you could call the pin the pro the Star Wars pin the home pin how do they call it they don't call it the cheap alternative somebody said that recently you're right they called it no I think Dennis was talking about this on the pinball network the pinball show So they were talking about the pin, Star Wars the pin. And if you go on Stern's website, it actually says something like an affordable home option. Exactly. Like basically inferring that the rest of them are not affordable.
    21:50
    Yeah. And they actually talked about it for a couple minutes, him and Zach, and they were laughing. And I was like, hmm, that is kind of funny. Like who botched that in the marketing department, right? here's the affordable pin all the rest of them are way out of your league yeah it's crazy it is so what do you think so kind of kind of on the same uh line of thought right before we started recording um i gotta call i'm gonna call him out because Tim Lee sucks at pinball.
    22:28
    Tim Lee called me, and he has been a little vocal about not being happy with Stern because of this price increase. And kind of what I came to, and we kind of both came to this conclusion together, and maybe you're in the same boat, Mike. The reason I'm upset, if Stern wants to charge $10,000 for a pro, that's fine, right? That's their prerogative. It's their business. I honestly have no issue with that. Would it suck? Sure. But if Stern comes out tomorrow and they say, hey, these games are $10,000, I say, okay, that's cool. That's what you're charging. It's a toy we don't need, right? It's not insulin for a diabetic.
    23:10
    But some people have paid for their games months ago, and now they're being hit up for $300. That is wrong. That is very wrong. And it's happening, okay? These people ordered games on day one, Mandalorian.
    23:32
    You can't say Godzilla because Godzilla had the new prices, right? But people have ordered Mandalorian, Deadpool, Jurassic Park, you name it. And they said, okay, we're giving you Insider Connected, so you have to pay us $300 more. Even though you already paid your distributor in full, it's been ordered, and were backlogged, and you were supposed to get your game two months ago, but since you didn't get it two months ago, now you owe me $300.
    24:00
    Well, and it's a little worse than that, or a little more insidious than that, in my opinion. Did you hear that? That's a word that's never been said on the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. Mike, you're bringing class to us. I love it. Go ahead. But some of our fellow tribe members had their machines paid for and ordered with Flippin' Out.
    24:23
    Flippin' Out Pinball called Zach and Nicole. And he got notified that his Deadpool had been pushed out until 2022 and he would have to pay new pricing on it. Because it was supposed to come out like this month or November or whatever. It was supposed to have gotten in November, I believe.
    24:42
    But it got pushed back to 2022. And because it was 2022, he now has to pay the new price, and so he canceled. Because it would have been literally $800 or $900, right? Exactly. Now, Zach did a masala and set him up with a game that he has now.
    25:03
    Zach took care of him. Sure, but once again, that's only because that game happened to be in stock. Exactly. It was something he had sitting on the floor. He had already purchased it at the old price, so he was able to sell it to him for less than what the current MSRP is or whatever. Exactly. So that is good. And, you know, there are good distributors out there that will take care of their people. Exactly. It's one of them. Oh, no. They're far and away, like, one of the best, if not the best. And that's why they're a sponsor of the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. But, you know, once again, I don't want to beat the dead horse, but I just think they should have at least honored, like, you know, I don't know, maybe until they got caught up with their backlog or something. Now, hold on here. Isn't this actually the second time this has happened?
    25:55
    Well, if it happened before, it was only $100, which still isn't great, but at least it's palatable because the last three or four price increases were $100.
    26:08
    Okay. Yeah. It's kind of like minimum wage. They say if minimum wage would have just went up, and this is not a political show by any stretch, yeah have you met us um but you know i've been saying this for years like if you raise the minimum wage by like 15 cents or 25 cents every year right it it doesn't affect businesses as much you know they can it's not great but at least they can stomach it right exactly it's a lot easier to swallow that yeah yeah if you just know that every year you're gonna have to pay your people an extra quarter or whatever the number is but now they're saying okay a hundred bucks a hundred bucks a hundred bucks and we're like yeah that's it you know a hundred dollars is peanuts in the pinball world let's be honest um but when you start saying now okay now it's a thousand dollars and you know now we're getting to the price of a i mean let's be honest for that premium that you're talking you can get a pretty nice used car oh yeah yeah i mean easily exactly Matter of fact, a couple people I know have recently sold machines to buy a car and a motorcycle.
    27:19
    Isn't that funny? It's not like, oh, I have to sell three machines to get this. I can sell one machine and buy whatever I need for my family. Exactly. Well, that's just like I recently picked up two machines. I picked up a Black Knight and a Ghostbusters.
    27:40
    Original Black Knight? original Black Knight, 1980. Oh, nice. So, yeah. That one needs a little bit of work. I'm hoping to have it at MGC, but we'll see.
    27:51
    But the guy was selling them to help pay for his daughter's wedding. I mean, it's one of those things that you can sell these toys and take care of major life events. I mean, it's just something to think about. No, it is.
    28:06
    And see, now Mike just depressed me because I know it's sitting in the next room from me. I'm almost looking at them right now.
    28:16
    I'm looking at one right behind Mike. Mike, that's your new Porsche. You know, like I said, so once again, I don't want to begrudge Stern for raising the price because it is a luxury toy. They make great toys. They make great products. I have lots of Stern products. I've bought lots of new Stern products. I probably will buy some more. However, the way they did this kind of left a sour taste in my mouth. Well, I'm about to depress you a little more because I don't think this is the end of it.
    28:52
    What do you think is going to happen? I think prices are going to go up again next year, and that's based strictly on my knowledge of the trucking industry and what it's taking for deliveries and costs and park deliveries and all that. I think we're going to see increases again next year because of transportation costs. And once again, I'm not getting political or being an economist, but everything I keep reading, and these are just random news sources, but they say next year the supply chain is going to be back to a relative normalcy. Is that incorrect? I call BS on that, but let's not go there. Let's go back to pinball. Okay, please. the poor man's trucking podcast is brought to you by um by stoughton trailer yeah there you go um okay so you think okay i think i think we're i think this is not the end of it i think we're going to continue to see these type of price hikes i really hope they're not the thousand dollar price hikes but 250 is not going to surprise me okay what do you think all of this and the supply chain and you know let's let's pretend for a moment let's put on our pretend hat and our magic wands okay let's wave that magic wand and say can i use that for a harry potter machine you can okay harry potter i just don't get it anyways um yeah i know a game that drew has well i didn't want godzilla either and look at me godzilla yeah Yeah.
    30:24
    Wave our magic wand, and Stern catches up on all their back orders, okay? Regardless of trucking industry, all that stuff, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, they get a bunch of parts in. They're able to make the machines. They crank through them, right? And now they're back to their normal flow, okay? What's going to happen to the used market at that point?
    30:47
    I don't think. Distributors have games in stock. How about that? Distributors have game in stock. Okay, distributors have game in stock. That's another way of saying it. Yeah, you go to every distributor in the country, and they all have, you know, warehouse full of games like they did a couple years ago. Okay, we're talking normal levels, though, not just like a plethora, you know? No, no, they have 10 of each game, you know, sent in a warehouse. And if you call, you can get one. Okay, at that point, people suddenly have a choice of getting themselves a new game from any manufacturer or getting a classic.
    31:25
    And I think at that point, we'll see a little bit of contraction in the classics market, in the used market, but it's not going to drop down because we are bringing more people into this hobby, which is great for the hobby. And so that in itself is creating a shortage of machines. These new people, they're going to see these other machines and they're going to want to scoop them up too. they're just like everyone who's been in it i've been in this hobby since 2005 um you know so they're going to be just like everyone else and they're going to want the new machines they're going to want old machines they're going to want to have a decent home collection and a decent home collection is anywhere from you know let's say two to six machines being your average collectors so i don't think prices are going to go down that much they will contract but not that much What's going to happen to a newer Stern Pro, like Deadpool or Star Wars or Guardians of the Galaxy or Iron Maiden? As long as it is a machine still in production, you will lose. No, no, not, okay. We've got to define it that way because you've got to define still in production and available versus recently available. Well, okay, so that's a good point. So let's say, you know, like Avengers. They'll probably be making Avengers for at least another year or so, right? Maybe two. Probably. Right?
    32:59
    So they get caught up on their orders, and, you know, right now the Avengers Pro is $5,500, right? $5,200, whatever that number is. But it's kind of what a new one costs, basically. you know so now you have some sitting in a warehouse do those go back down to sub 5000 considering new pro prices are now going to be 6800 6800 instead of 5800 yeah i think they'll drop down to 5800 on the used market um you'll probably take at most a thousand dollar hit off MSRP. Okay. Distinction.
    33:42
    But I don't think they'll drop below that unless it's a turd of a game. Sure, sure. Well, and we've already seen a little bit, you're right, because these newer and newer games like that, the LCDs, the Spike 2s, those have kind of really maintained their value. But even a game like Metallica that's beloved, you know, but it's from the last era of Stern, you know. Yeah, it's a Sam or a... Yeah, yeah, Sam is Metallica, you're starting to see those retract just a little bit in price. Exactly. Because, you know, everyone's excited about this Insider Connected and all the stuff that's coming up. Yeah, but they're just sick of chopping wood. So that's... That's the reason Metallica... Oh, whatever. Still the best game ever. Oh, sorry.
    34:31
    Had a hard time swallowing that one. Oh, I love it. I love it. That's what she said. Um... Okay, so we talked about pricing. We kind of beat that dead horse. We don't really know what's going to happen, but we do know that they're not going to get cheaper. That's really what we're... So, you know, the final question remains then as far as pricing is, you know, everyone has their tolerance level, and you said so earlier in this podcast. You're done, right? You're out. I mean, with new games. I'm going to take a major title that I really, really want, that the kids want, and that my wife likes. If you say Harry Potter, you're being ousted. Motley Crue. Okay, fair enough.
    35:15
    What else? God, I think that's the only one that'd get me to drop money right now. Is there a movie that your wife loves or kids love that isn't in production somewhere? You know, there's... Well, that's just it.
    35:33
    There's a lot of... And don't say the notebook. Oh, God. Zelda popped in my head, but I was like, oh, there you go. Oh, that's fantastic.
    35:44
    But in terms of older movies or anything or older content the crew is the only thing that would get me to drop a lot of money Okay So see, isn't this interesting, though? Because now they've gotten so expensive, but there's still themes out there that you would say, yep, no questions asked, I would get this, right? Exactly. So yeah, Motley Crue gets announced in spring, and you're like, I'm in. It doesn't matter. Yeah, at that point I'm calling the distributors going, I need an LE. Who's got one for me? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, what you said, like Zelda. Zelda would be one of those for me. Super Mario Brothers would be one of those for me. Futurama would be one of those for me. The other one I've been watching lately, I've been actually taking gummies and watching this because it's fantastic, is King of the Hill. Oh, I could totally see that. You know, like if you had a King of the Hill, maybe you had like a propane grill in the back or something. I mean, you know, I'm just thinking about how you could have Strickland propane back there or something. I mean, it would be awesome. I would totally dig it. King of the Hill. Yeah, I could get behind that. I'm not sure it'd end up in my collection, but I could totally get behind that. Yeah, I mean, it would just be one of those, like, really fun games, you know, just fun call-outs, fun stuff in there. Yeah, it would just be neat. Well, and, God, I've designed Crew eight ways from Sunday in my head. Would you have Tommy Lee's drum set in there? You have to, right? Tommy Lee's drum set in there. But the whole theme of the game is not music tracks, but writing music. And what you do is you've got to get different shots so that you build the songs. So that when you're done with a mode, you've built the song. And whether or not you hit the ball or you hit the shots on each ball determines whether or not you've actually made the song and whether or not you've really fucked up the song because, you know, Mick got high or, you know, or Nicky. You had four drinks or. Exactly.
    37:51
    So, you know, but the game would yell at you and it would make fun of them much like the dirt did, you know. Oh, yeah. If you guys haven't seen that, yeah, this is our poor man's. You got to watch this segment. You got to watch the dirt.
    38:05
    Yeah. Netflix. Go ahead. Exactly. So it would be built around that same type of theme, you know, where it was the dirt and just going on. so oh that's awesome yeah let's uh let's shift gears here let's uh let's talk about the stern insider give me uh give me your thoughts on it tell me why you think this is good for pinball maybe why you think it's not so good for pinball what um okay i'm really on the fence on this whole thing i kind of like the idea of keeping track of who plays what from a tournament standpoint if every game was a stern game which i have as of yet to run a tournament that was every game a certain game but if you could you know link it up so that people scan their qr code and then it automatically put it in and it was tracking it for you. Oh, it would do all the tournament tracking. Exactly. So he did touch briefly on integration with match play. I'm sorry, he being George Gomez. But it didn't sound like anything that would be, you know, a first priority or second or even a third priority. It was one of those eventually things. Sure, because they have to build their foundation, their base, right? Exactly, exactly.
    39:29
    So from that perspective, it would be really cool if you could have it for every game. But realistically, it's not going to be for every game. Mike, most of our listeners aren't tournament players, so let's dumb it down here a little bit for the non-tourneys. I know you're excited. I get so excited about tournaments. Okay, I've got to step back for a second here. for those non-tourney players. You know, most of us.
    39:55
    Okay. One of the tournaments I run is at a bar here in Madison. Glenn Wachter has a boner right now, by the way. Go ahead. Oh, awesome.
    40:04
    I have a tournament that I run there. It's an open tournament. It's the fourth Wednesday of every month. And it's a tournament for non-competitive people. I mean, I give away more drinks than we've played pinball, I think, because of how this thing runs. And it's usually fairly split in terms of men and women. But because it's a bar, it's all older. Everyone's over 21, even though we are Wisconsin.
    40:34
    You brought a baby to the bar? But the thing is, with this type of tournament, it's very inclusive, and it's made for everyone. It's a tournament for non-tournament players. no mike that is fantastic and i i i love your enthusiasm you know i love you you know i want to get involved some more term and stuff but but you also know that that's the minority exactly exactly so the majority of people out there won't be in the tournaments okay so now let's go to the other parts of insider connect how does how does this work for someone who's newer to pinball how about let's start there for someone who's newer to pinball um they're going to walk up they're going to see the qr code on the machine they're going to scan it with their phone they're going to set up their insider connected account and they'll get going on it okay now that's a lot of time to ask someone so hopefully it's not a really packed bar whatever they do yeah yeah for sure you know so that's one of my problems with it is the amount of time it takes to set it up um well what what would you suggest a different i know you're you're a bit of a techie and you're a very smart guy. So, I mean, because a lot of people said like, oh, the QR code is kind of antiquated, right? Because I mean, yeah, people still use them, but it's not cutting edge technology, let's be honest. Okay. It's not cutting edge technology, but I think they actually chose well in choosing the QR codes because cutting edge technology requires things like cutting edge connections. and how many times have you been out to play in a bar and you pick up your phone you got like one bar or no bars and so that i can't even see my phone when i'm in a bar it's it looks like i'm looking at four phones if i i digress yeah true um so having it be connected to the internet or reliant on the internet bad idea okay okay like a qr code where all the information is contained the net qr code that the machine needs that's really the best way to do it i mean even if you try to do things like bluetooth or local wi-fi connections i think those are bad ideas even for tech heavy people um it's going to be a challenge at times whereas a qr code is just going to read the same thing every time and it has a given set of information so i think it's a bit ingenious here. I think it's a good solution. Good choice. I trust George Gomez because, let's be honest, every decision that guy has made since the days of Williams has been fantastic, right? Exactly.
    43:16
    George can do no wrong in my opinion. I really like the guy. I like what he's putting out there. I love all of it.
    43:25
    I guess the real question is though, no matter how user friendly, no matter what it is, are people going to latch on to this? No.
    43:35
    The shortest answer in poor man's pinball history. Why do you say that? There is no tangible benefit for me as a newbie player to do Stern Connect.
    43:49
    So just for fun, five years from now, is Stern Connect going to still be a thing? Yes. Okay. So you think there's going to be enough people who adopt it to make it worth their while. To make it worth their while. It's going to be worth their while from a operator standpoint. It's going to be worth their while from when you buy one for Star Wars and when I buy one for Star Wars. And we'll be playing each other remotely over the Internet. Got it. You know. That's going to happen, folks.
    44:21
    So do you think – I lost my train of thought. Edit, edit, edit. Okay, so you think there's enough there to keep people going? And, oh, I know what I was going to say. Edit, edit, edit.
    44:38
    Do you think they're going to be going to some sort of subscription model? I think they have to. They're going to have to generate revenue from it, right? Exactly. More so than selling just an apron to people. Exactly. It has to be a revenue generation tool. It really does. Otherwise, it makes no sense for them to keep pumping money onto servers on their side. There has to be money somewhere coming into it. Well, sure, because they've obviously invested money into it one way or the other. Exactly.
    45:13
    Exactly. So there's going to have to be. And that's where I'm going to be really curious to see what the distinction they make is between the Insider Connected and the Insider Connected, crap, the $40 a year level that I can't remember what it's called. Oh, yeah. So right now, you either get it for free or you pay $40 a year, right? The Stern Insider. Exactly. For Stern Insider. Okay. Right. And for you kiddies at home, Stern Insider, you pay $40 a year right now, even before the Stern Insider was announced or connected. And you get a t-shirt and some swag, and you basically just get a newsletter from them or something, right? I don't know exactly what.
    46:03
    Once a year, and I still have mine sitting right here in front of me, you get a... Let's see if I can grab this. Okay, so this year they gave us a glow-in-the-dark cup, some 3D goggles, some stickers, some 3D stickers, and a bandana and, ooh, a coin purse.
    46:26
    What's not worth it? What makes it worth it are things like the webcasts that they have, the additional content they have online. So that's what makes it worth it. So they send you specialized emails and say we're having this thing? On their website, there's special areas you can get to. You can go to older sections as opposed to just what's current, I think.
    46:54
    It's different media content you can get to. Okay, okay. So they're kind of wrapping that all together though now. Exactly. You pay the $40 and you get your swag that's useless.
    47:12
    It's kind of like poor man's pinball swag. Go to silverballswag.com and buy some shit. Okay, so you pay that. But the question is, you think ultimately they're going to go to some sort of monthly... They'll go to probably a yearly fee. It'll probably go up a little bit. it won't go up much so that people don't... $99 a year, probably. Something like that. My guess is $60 a year, $5 a month.
    47:38
    So, that's my guess. But do you think, like, say a year from now, you and I are back on this show, we'll be on episode 107, because we're not going to do anything between now and then.
    47:50
    Just kidding, folks. We'll be here more frequently. So, next year, this time, you don't think there's going to be
    48:00
    Pay for new code? No. No? No. Okay, hold on here. Pay for new code? No. Pay for additional DLC? Yes. Much like they do with the topper, they'll give you some extra game little more. Okay, Mr. Hair Splitter. There's a difference there. I'm not going to pay for a code update in general for bug fixes, game fixes, whatever. But for additional engagement content, oh, yeah. And if they really do what they've talked about with these new game features or new game trophies or new things you can do for the game, it could be worth it. And then they actually could start charging more. Okay, so here's the question that's been being asked then.
    48:48
    Let's say Dwight Sullivan adds a bunch of shit to Star Wars, okay? Mike Williams owns a Star Wars premium as do I we both love Star Wars he's a little bit older than me I'll preface by saying that I love you Mike Dwight Sullivan releases some new code for Star Wars sorry not new code hey there's a couple more modes there's you know some side missions right whatever you want to call them and you can get these to your insider-connected apron that you paid $300 for, by the way, because Star Wars didn't come with it.
    49:32
    And it's $399. As long as it is a one-time purchase and it stays with the game, I'm in. Really? Where would you be at? What would be your price?
    49:49
    It depends on what it does. Well, I'm saying... Okay. So if it is something like a Are You a God mode Yep A single mode where you can kind of just start it And play it So that's My pinch point is somewhere between 3, 350 for something like that For a single mode Stern I hope you're not listening Go ahead It better be a damn good mode though Well Are You a God is a fantastic mode Exactly I wouldn't pay $340. I would pay $99 for that, I think.
    50:30
    You think it's worth $350? I'm just thinking of how much time it takes to code things. Rich fuck Mike. Go ahead. No.
    50:42
    I wish. God. Go ahead. No, no. if there is a mode that or if there was an update that introduced several new modes where it completely changed the nature of the game that I'm going to pay more for okay no and I agree so let's kind of go backwards here and this will probably not happen but you never know let's say Dwight goes back and he codes this thing all brand new okay and it goes through the entire Star Wars saga okay from start to finish. As long as he leaves out Jar Jar, I'm okay. Yeah, I was going to say, the way Kaneda wanted it.
    51:26
    Okay, so he... It's a linear fashion, just like the movie, right? And it just goes through all three movies. It's a brand new code. Would you pay $9.99 for that?
    51:40
    That would be really hard for me to say. Yeah, I'd want to see it, but it would be really tempting. Because if it was a completely new game, and I could flip-flop back and tweet the two codes? Well, sure. No, you would always have the option to flip-flop because that would just have to be a must. I mean, if they're going to go to all that trouble and all that work, you know, you'd have to say, hey, do you want to play the original code or do you want to play Metallica 1.8, right? Because when Lyman, you know, redid Metallica, it was like a whole new game, right? Exactly.
    52:16
    I don't know what my price point is there, but I'm going to have to see Keith playing the game. No, you can't see it.
    52:27
    That's the thing. They're like, this is one time only. We're selling it for one month. No one can see it. If you stream it, you die.
    52:35
    As long as I got a listing of the modes and what you had to do, we'd have to see it. But the fact that we're even hemming and hawing about this just shows you the possibility of insanity that could, that could ensue. Right. Because we're actually entertaining the idea of paying a thousand dollars for some, for some code that you could download on a flash drive in eight seconds.
    53:04
    You know, I mean, essentially that's what's happening. True. Very true. Right. And, and God damn it. I mean, it's, it's the world we live in. And once again, we don't need these games to survive. Exactly. But it sure feels like we do.
    53:23
    I got to tell you, if I didn't have these games, and I consider myself extremely lucky that I've been able to build my collection the way I have been prior to the pandemic.
    53:33
    And if I didn't have it, I would have went fucking nuts. No, and that's great. And we all have you know that the one thing I learned very early on It just like any hobby but everyone in it for a different reason right Everyone has kind of their own way of you know enjoying the hobby Well, and I would argue some people don't enjoy it. They just like to bitch, but that's another story. We're certainly not those people. But it is interesting. And like I said, I don't want to stray too far, so we'll just kind of finish up talking about. but you think that downloadable content is coming in one shape or form. I mean, there is going to be a pay-for-play system in some fashion within the next 12 months. I don't know about 12 months, but I'll say 36 months. Okay, well. It's going to have to get traction. It's going to have to get accepted. But it already happened with, you know, you buy a topper, you get a free mode. you know I mean true they're dipping their toe in the water because they're not stupid they don't just want to go ahead I'm saying 36 months from a manpower standpoint so that makes sense they may want to do it right now but I don't think they have the manpower to do it no and that does make sense but you know I mean well I don't want to talk about dark days at Stern, but they could focus a lot of their energy on that and not make as many games, right?
    55:18
    And not pump out a game every three months? No, no, no. They would still... Yeah, I mean... That's how they get caught up. Sure, sure. Because, you know, coding, I don't want to say coding is easier, but coding is different than trying to build a machine and get parts. Coding is people in a room with a computer that they already have versus trying to get parts. Correct. Coding can happen around the clock, essentially, no matter what. Yeah. Coding, they can say, hey, we're going to pay you X number of dollars. We just need this done in a month. And then someone can do it. Yeah, exactly, because you're right. You just need a computer. That's it.
    55:59
    And let's be honest. if Stern didn't make another game, if Stern didn't release another new title and they just made their current catalog, people would be satisfied for the next five to ten years.
    56:16
    They'd be satisfied for the next one to two years. You have met all these people in the pinball hobby, right? Yes, yeah, you're right. I know you keep bringing me in. I always exaggerate a little bit, but you see my point, though. Yeah, I do. For the next few years, whether that's one year or three years or five years, they could make the current games they have. Exactly. And they would sell every one of them, and people would bitch, but guess what? They'd still buy Deadpool. They'd still buy Guardians of the Galaxy. It's still a phenomenal game, yeah. Yes, yes, absolutely. And think about it. They could re-up on some of their licenses, right? Mm-hmm. You know, hey, Disney. They have a relationship. Hey, Disney, we want to make another 5,000 Star Wars. Okay, pay the fee and go to town, right? What do they care?
    57:06
    The game's already designed, right? I mean, they could do it if they wanted to. Hey, Beatles. That's a bad example.
    57:16
    Although I know a lot of people dump on that game, but I actually enjoy it. No, I've said this since the start, Mike.
    57:23
    I like Beatles music okay. I've never been a super fan they're not on my top 10 they're not in my top 20 I'm like Beatles are fine that game is fucking fun as hell it is it's a blast every time I step up to it every time I draw it in a tournament or every time I just run into it in the wild I put money in it where do you run into the wild they only made three of them ba dum bum alright let's move on of the next topic, otherwise we're going to be here all day.
    57:58
    So, Mike, if you guys don't know, is a big part of one of the upcoming shows, and I'm not talking about Expo, because everyone talks about Expo. Expo's coming up in a couple weeks. Expo's great. I'll be there for pretty much the whole thing, and no, Zach Menny, I will not shake your hand after I puke in a urinal. Are you going to give your shirt to his wife again? Nope. You know what? I actually have this plan. I'm going to ask her if I can give her a big sober hug, and that's what's going to happen. I'm going to give her a sober hug where I'm not all sweaty and gross, and I'm sure she'll be fine. Nicole, are you going to give her a hug on Wednesday, then? Yes, yes, on Wednesday, because on Thursday it won't go so well.
    58:40
    Nicole, I'll be looking for you. But there's another little tiny show in a little tiny town called Milwaukee, and that's happening the week after Expo. So, Mike, I'm just going to hand it over to you and tell us about your affiliation with MGC. MGC, the Midwest Gaming Classic. This is a show that I love because back in, oh, God, I don't remember how long ago the first time I went.
    59:11
    Back when they were three venues, four venues ago was the first time I ever went there. And I've always loved the show and I've always gone. and I don't know four years ago five years ago um I started going okay I really like the show I want to help us succeed and I'm one of those type of people that when you find something you really like and you love and you want to help it you volunteer and I already knew some other volunteers at the show and I got in touch with them said okay what can I do to help and my friend Tully He's like, ah, I got the perfect name for you. Just come on. And he set me up with a show that first year, and I started working the loading dock. And the very first year I started working for them was the first year at the downtown center, the Wisconsin center.
    60:00
    Maybe that was the second year. Anyway, I was working the loading dock there. And so if you brought a game to MGC or you pulled one out, you probably ran into me. but we bring the games in. There's another set of crew that distributes the games. There are other parts of the crew that don't do anything new with pinball because there is tabletop games and arcade games and museums and all that.
    60:27
    But it's just a really cool show to hit. Now, one of the great things to do there is there's a, okay, we'll touch briefly on that. There's a new format for pinball tournaments you can do if you want there. there are pinball tournaments on a couple nights that you can run into there is something called the VIG the very important gamer where it gets you early access to the games on Saturday or I'm sorry early access to the vendor hall on Saturday you get a collectible game for the NES it gets you access to the after party on Saturday night runs till 4 in the morning so you can play games all night all in the morning till you literally fall asleep playing it's a great deal you can go do the VIG thing something that a lot of people may not realize is that when you buy your tickets as a forever ticket you can use it for any future event on the same day so let's say I bought a ticket for Saturday, just Saturday if I decide not to go this year because I'm not comfortable with how things are going or I don't like something that Milwaukee says I have to do and I just go in the next year. You just use that same ticket next year. So if you buy Saturday, Sunday tickets, you can use them at some point in the future. Dan really does a good job of making sure your tickets are going to be usable and that you don't lose your money. But with regards to MGC, Midwest Gaming Classic, it's not just about pinballs. They have demos there on how to build games and by building games i mean rebuilding boards for your arcades for your nes there are the tabletop games which is a great time that you can just check out a tabletop game and go play it or there's people there that run tabletop games there's going to be air hockey there there's going to be just a wide variety of gaming in general it's a smaller show i don't know how many people go on an annual basis um but they even have 30 or 40 kiddie rides set up the little quarter rides where you put the airplanes and the horses and whatever i mean yeah i know it's it doesn't sound that exciting but it's just cool to see all these you know the kids love it but you go into this room and like a quarter of it was dedicated to these kiddie rides exactly and they just had them all set up. It is truly something to see. Mike and I were talking and everyone talks about Expo. Everyone knows.
    63:08
    It is primarily pinball. Just like a lot of these shows. It is a big draw, of course. Companies have released games there or announced games there.
    63:24
    Yeah, that's where... Gaming. I mean, like, yeah, we all love, you know, video games, and there's a ton of them there. And if you're into board games or card games or whatever, it's super cool. Exactly. So it's a show I love and a show I volunteer at and a show I will continue to volunteer at until. And a show that's close. Exactly.
    63:45
    But Milwaukee, you know, we're a big city. I mean, you know, here we are. I mean, Mike doesn't even live in Milwaukee, but. Milwaukee is a great place to visit if you've never been and it's easy to get in and out of yep there's probably still hotel rooms ready to go yeah there are it's just something I really recommend doing oh that's awesome I'll be there for sure Mike 4 in the morning huh yeah I believe that's the latest I've ever went I think there was a couple people still going after me but I was just dead at that point. So do I need to bring a game, or can you just give me the hookup?
    64:29
    Let's talk. Okay. Dan Lusin, are you listening? I don't know if Dan will ever talk to Ian and I ever again after our interview.
    64:39
    Oh, that's right. You guys had that train wreck of an interview with him. Oh, my God. That was actually the interview that Ian and I decided never to get drunk while we were doing interviews again. Oh, God. Because Ian and I were like a couple of, I don't even know, like a couple of monkeys. We were like dancing around the basement.
    65:04
    And Dan Lucin brought this championship wrestling belt. And we were like fighting over it. And it was a whole thing. And we kept looking over at Dan. And he's like, what the fuck did I get into? It was, go back and listen. it was early on, like episode I want to say 12 or 13. I was going to say it was like episode 10, but yeah, it's somewhere around there. And the reason I didn't say 10, I think 10 was Eric Pripke. Oh, yeah. And Eric Pripke, we got really drunk as well.
    65:36
    Wait, wait, wait. So you got drunk on a show? Really? Yeah, yeah, just twice. Only twice. And several hundred times afterwards, I don't know.
    65:49
    so anyways, uh, yeah, go, go to MGC. Um, I'm hoping, uh, Ian and I are still planning some stuff. I know I am. Um, I'd love to take some of you guys out. So, you know, some of the tribe members, some of the listeners, um, reach out to me if you guys are thinking about coming because, um, it is my hometown. It's literally 10 minutes from my house. So we will, uh, you know, we'll get some of the bars together. We'll do a couple of bar crawls. We'll, we'll, We'll take you out. We'll show you a good time. So let me know.
    66:23
    So I can crash at your place Thursday night instead of... You certainly can. And you, me, and the two dogs, and my wife, and my kid can all sleep in a king-size bed. It'll be amazing. Oh, that'll be awesome, man. Uh-huh. Nice and warm. It's cozy. It's like camping for me. Uh-huh. Exactly.
    66:42
    So anything else you want to promote? No, no. I wanted to hit MGC because it is a show that is near and dear to my heart. No, it's a great show. Great, great show. More people need to go because I think it is lost a little bit just because Milwaukee is not, you know, it's a big town, but it's not like the biggest, right? Exactly. And this year it occurred at an odd time because Dan had to change it to fall because of his contract. It's usually in April. Yeah, it's usually in the spring. he had to change it because of the contracts and such from having to cancel matter of fact it's usually after Texas Spinball Festival exactly I want to say it's like two weeks later yeah it's usually Texas excuse me and then yeah a week or two later it's MGC but yeah it just happened this way unfortunately I know a lot of tribe members are going to Expo so they can't go to both which I totally understand, but at the same time, you should try. Try and make it.
    67:49
    I mean, it's a great place. Just hang out for a couple extra days in Milwaukee. You will not regret the time. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Yeah. Well, good stuff, Mike. Anything else you want to tell our listeners?
    68:06
    I'm looking at the stuff of what we did here and what we've talked about, and we've covered a whole lot of ground here. We did. We did. This is, you know what, this is the first episode, like, no offense to the people that I've talked to in the last few weeks and stuff. Those episodes were great. They were fine. But this is the first one where I felt kind of back at home because Mike and I are drinking, like, or toasting. Communicating. yeah you know I want to thank all you guys are still supporting us you know we still got a ton of listens I really appreciate that you guys and you know I'm going to try to get back on a regular rhythm I said I'm working on the editing I got these great co-hosts like Mike we got a few other things planned for the next you know few weeks months whatever and yeah I just want to thank everybody so thank you thank you for hanging out with us and anything to add Mike I had a great time Drew thanks for having me on good man good good good well this was episode 105 of the this was episode 106 of the poor man's pinball podcast edit edit edit this is episode 106 of the poor man's pinball podcast I want to thank everyone for listening I want to thank all my great sponsors like Flippin Out Pinball and Penn Stadium Lights and pinballprices.com don't forget about Doc Finlay at pinballprices.com. Go there to check out all the crazy prices that pinball has to offer.
    69:39
    We'll see you next time. That was good, man. That was fun. Yeah, I think we did okay. I think we did.
    69:55
    But then he asks me, do you know where my car keys are? I look at him in his face and I say Have you checked your bundle? See that bundle?
    70:08
    I have not seen your keys, but since you're asking me You better check up that bundle Because I'm not kidding I don't think he's up inside your big brown business But a funny thing to say to someone who's lost their shit and is stressed out Somebody listen to my show for a second They gotta think we're fucking creepy and crazy When I see that We're at the hotel Oh I still don't say it When I see the groom Asking the vicar if they can wait just another 15 minutes I do not say it And when the father of the bride Starts organising an ad hoc Emu bob at the courtyard area I want to but I do not say it It's the 11th hour With 300 congregants under God's roof The poor man's pinball podcast is sponsored by Flippin' Out Pinball.
    71:27
    Thank you.