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Episode 9: Origin Story and Music Pins

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 9m·analyzed·May 16, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

New episode covers twins birth announcement, Black Knight review, and industry discussion of code design impact and game releases.

Summary

Loser Kid Pinball Podcast Episode 9 covers Josh Roop's announcement that his twins were born on May 6, Scott Larson's hands-on experience with Black Knight: Sword of Rage (which he found brutally difficult but engaging for shorter play sessions), and discussion of recent game releases and community news including Cosmic Carnival gameplay footage, Steve Ritchie's setup guidance on Facebook, Christopher Franchi's Superman 78 artwork reveal, and the impact of Lyman Sheets' code design on games like Batman 66 and Walking Dead.

Key Claims

  • Black Knight: Sword of Rage has similar brutality and limitations to original Black Knight games, essentially playing like a two-thirds playfield due to ramps and wire forms above

    high confidence · Scott Larson, direct hands-on experience with Pro version

  • Steve Ritchie posted on Facebook that Black Knight: Sword of Rage should be set at 6.5-7% incline; steeper angles reduce side-to-side action and paradoxically make the game easier

    high confidence · Josh Roop referencing recent Facebook post from designer

  • Superman 78 and Beetlejuice are projects that Stern passed on and will not be released commercially

    medium confidence · Josh discussing Franchi's artwork releases; classified as passed-up projects

  • Lyman Sheets' code work was decisive in reviving Batman 66 and Walking Dead from initial poor reception

    high confidence · Scott and Josh discussing Lyman's historical impact; credible given Lyman's documented work on these titles

  • Walking Dead had poor initial reception but improved significantly after Lyman Sheets' code work

    high confidence · Scott: 'Walking Dead was left for dead... after Lyman was able to work his magic'

  • Catwoman Batman 66 and Color Premium Munsters are both Premium tier machines, not Limited Edition

    high confidence · Josh clarifying product tier based on visible product imagery

  • Adam West's declining health drove Stern's decision to rush Batman 66 release despite incomplete code

    high confidence · Josh providing business context for launch decision

  • Cosmic Carnival has changed significantly from Texas Pinball Festival three months prior to this episode

    high confidence · Josh noting game improvements based on feedback

Notable Quotes

  • “my wife had the twins... they were born... on May 6th. And so everything's going great with them.”

    Josh Roop @ early in episode — Major life announcement explaining podcast hiatus; demonstrates community value of family prioritization

  • “It's almost like you're dealing with playing a two-thirds playfield because all your shots above that are just either ramps or wire forms”

    Scott Larson @ Black Knight section — Encapsulates the playfield design philosophy and gameplay limitations of Sword of Rage

  • “Steve Ritchie came out and was like, you cheaters, stop making the game steeper than seven percent... if you have any steeper than that, you're cheating because it takes away from the side-to-side action”

    Josh Roop @ Facebook discussion section — Shows designer engagement with community setup issues; reflects manufacturer-to-player communication shift

  • “There's no chance [Batman 66 would succeed without Lyman]. That would have been dead in the water... they were able to make a diamond out of coal.”

    Scott Larson @ code design impact discussion — Emphasizes critical role of code design in game success; validates rule set quality as market differentiator

  • “this is a hobby. Like I appreciate the tenacity and the commitment that high level players have... I'm just not really in that phase of life right now”

    Josh Roop @ Rocky Mountain Showdown discussion — Articulates tension between hobby passion and life stage; reflects broader community value of balance

  • “I never thought an Iron Maiden pinball machine would be a good concept. But hey, here we are. It's one of the best games... I just, I guess I don't have my finger on the pulse like Stern does.”

    Josh Roop @ theme viability discussion — Shows humility about predicting game success; acknowledges Stern's market research capabilities

  • “Walking Dead was left for dead... after Lyman was able to work his magic – because people always said, oh, well, it doesn't matter what the code says, you can't fix geometry. Well, apparently you can fix something with the code”

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonBlack Knight: Sword of RagegameSteve RitchiepersonLyman SheetspersonChristopher FranchipersonBatman 66game

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Loser Kid Podcast being invited to Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdown to provide coverage; broader trend of media presence at regional events expanding community reach

    high · Josh: 'we got invited to the Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdown... Holly's reached out to us... on May 25th, 26th, and 27th'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Lyman Sheets' rule set work on Batman 66 and Walking Dead fundamentally changed competitive viability and community perception; demonstrates code quality as primary driver of tournament adoption

    high · Scott: 'Absolutely not [would succeed without Lyman]. That would have been dead in the water... they were able to make a diamond out of coal.' Discussion of Walking Dead transformation through code improvements

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Tournament players traditionally increase machine leg angle to increase difficulty, but Steve Ritchie claims steeper angles actually reduce side-to-side action and make game easier; creates conflict between player expectations and designer intent

    high · Josh: 'Steve Ritchie came out and was like, you cheaters, stop making the game steeper than seven percent... it takes away from the side-to-side action and actually makes the game easier'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Steve Ritchie actively providing setup guidance on Facebook to correct common mistakes (leg inclination); demonstrates designer commitment to proper playfield experience and bridges manufacturer-player communication gap

    high · Steve Ritchie Facebook post on Black Knight: Sword of Rage leg angle guidance; Josh noting 'this closes that gap between manufacturer and customer'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.207

0:00
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. You are on episode number nine, and with me, my co-captain as usual. I'm Scott Larson. Hey, Scott. How are you doing today? Well, I'm doing well. It seems like we've taken a little break, but I'm not the one that has the major announcements with life-changing experiences. Maybe you should start off. Maybe. You know what? You're probably right on that. if you didn't check out our Facebook posts or our Pinside posts from last week, the reason we took a week off or skipped a week is my wife had the twins. And so everything's going good. They're healthy. We're just waiting for them to gain a little weight and then we'll get them home. So they were born not yesterday because we're recording on Tuesday night, but they were born last Monday, so May 6th. And so everything's going great with them. Well, good. And, of course, we feel that life should take precedence over hobbies. And so we decided to take a week off and let Josh be with his family. But now that the kids are doing fine, we have a little bit of time. So we figured we'd update and get going. For sure. And that was my major stuff. So did you have anything cool happen to you in the last couple weeks, Scott? Yes. I bought pin gulps and I put them on all of my machines. That is super. Well, and then didn't you also, I don't know if you already want to talk about this, if we want to skip it for later, but didn't you get your hands on a Black Knight as well? Oh, yeah. No, I played a Black Knight. Absolutely.
1:37
We could. Sure. Let's go ahead and jump into it. Yeah, let's do it. I want to hear about this. Yeah. So the Black Knight was pretty much what I expected. The Black Knight is, it's basically a trilogy. It's three different versions of a very similar layout with little modifications.
2:01
I liked it. I thought it was really fun. It also has the same limitations and the same brutality as Black Knight and Black Knight 2000. So it's almost like you're dealing with playing a two-thirds playfield. because all your shots above that are just either ramps or wire form, and it's just kind of feeding back to you. So even though you're playing, it really is almost like playing a minigame, but that's really how the original Black Knight was. Now, I played the Pro. I didn't play the Premium, so I don't know how the upper play field would play into it. I think it's a very fun game. It felt like a video game mixed with a... Basically, it felt like Mortal Kombat, really. At least with the animations and the vibe that you're always fighting these different enemies.

Scott Larson @ code impact section — Demonstrates code's power to overcome hardware limitations; validates rule set quality importance

  • “they were able to lock up their best designer or their best code writer and lock him up until he was able to work on this crazy code... and this crazy expensive game.”

    Scott Larson @ Lyman discussion — Reveals resource allocation strategy; shows Stern's investment priority in rule set quality for premium titles

    • Walking Dead
    game
    Cosmic Carnivalgame
    Jeff Teolisperson
    Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdownevent
    George Gomezperson
    Iron Maidengame
    Munstersgame
    Jack Dangerperson
    Stern Pinballcompany

    licensing_signal: Christopher Franchi's Superman 78 artwork reveals licensing constraints; Stern passed on project indicating it lacked commercial viability despite strong artistic execution

    high · Discussion of Superman 78 being 'a project that is not going to get done, just like the Beetlejuice project'; Josh speculating on Stern's market research

  • $

    market_signal: Munsters underperforming Stern's expectations; company responding with Color Premium variant to stimulate demand

    medium · Josh: 'I know someone was kind of throwing a fit... I don't know if Munsters is doing as great as Stern had hoped. And so they're throwing another curveball with this Color Premium'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jack Danger actively seeking someone to take over streaming duties due to upcoming child; signals lifestyle balance priority among prominent content creators

    high · Josh mentioning 'Jack Danger... he's already looking for someone to kind of take over his role of streaming because he's so dedicated to his streaming after his kid shows up'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Cosmic Carnival significantly improved from Texas Pinball Festival (3 months prior) based on community feedback; active development iteration continuing

    high · Josh: 'Cosmic Carnival and Suncoast... they're taking a lot of feedback and they are making the game better because this is an entirely different game from what we saw even at Texas Pinball Festival three months ago'

  • ?

    product_concern: Batman 66 rushed to release due to Adam West's health concerns; launched with incomplete code and poor initial reception despite excellent artwork

    high · Josh: 'Adam West was not in good health, and so they pushed it to get that out while he was still alive... it just felt like a lead balloon because it looked so pretty, but it was just not ready for primetime'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Batman 66 narrative reversal: initial negative reception due to incomplete release transformed into positive community consensus after Lyman Sheets' code work; demonstrates code quality's redemptive power in community perception

    high · Josh: 'One. Big Buck Hunter. CSI... it is a miss... then he had Batman in the doldrums... one. Big Buck Hunter. CSI. So these are all... Batman 66. Okay. Great.'

    • 3:01
    I think it's really tough. I think you do want that vibe to, yeah, I really want to put another quarter in, or I want to play with friends. It has that feeling to me. I'm not sure whether or not it would do better on location or at home because the brutality of it, you're just going to just go ahead and say, hey, maybe I'll take a little more time at home, and it doesn't matter if the ball comes screaming down the middle. I can just always play another game.
    3:34
    Also, I think it may be fun for location because it does provide that quicker turnaround if you're playing with people. Um, you really don't want to have a game where, at least I don't on location, if I'm playing with friends, where they're playing a ball time for five, 10 minutes. And you kind of lose interest at that point. Um, because it's kind of hard unless you're leaning over their shoulder or watching. It's really hard to be interacting with them while they do that. And so I think the shorter ball time, you know, kind of like a TNA, it plays into being able to mix it up and to still be active and social. I really like it. I think it's great. I guess the jury's still out on whether or not I would prefer that to be a home location or a bar slash arcade location. I think currently I prefer it to be at the arcade. So it's not something you'll see in the foreseeable future that you would just bring into the house and want to dig deeper into it? I think it would be fun. I think it would be a game that I would certainly not pass up to take into the house.
    4:49
    I guess it just kind of depends on how long it scratches that itch. That brutality can be fun. it can also be a little too hard.
    5:03
    However, there are ebbs and flows that people can like that or not like that. I have Iron Man at home, and as we all know, when it came out, it was kind of considered a simple rule set, and it was short ball times. People didn't like it.
    5:21
    Then it kind of had this renaissance after a while where people really liked it. I mean, it became a tournament game. and people liked, okay, well, I can play it in a tournament, and there are some nuances of ways that you can blow up the score. So I think it kept the interest of the high-level players, and I think that is a trickle-down effect to make people want to keep it in their home. I like it because I go downstairs, and if I only have 10 minutes, I can get a few games in it. I don't really have that kind of time if I'm going to play Simpsons Pinball Party. So I tend to go to the shorter games because I just want a quick fix.
    6:00
    So I think it could actually fit into that niche too. I guess we'll see with time how well it plays out on the tournament scene though. Because I think the tournament scene is going to make or break the game. I agree. It definitely looks like a game that is geared towards the tournament scene. It's not something I look at and think that it's long playing like Lord of the Rings or something like that. something that you have a lot of meat but then again it is early code we don't know exactly where tim balls is going to go with it um he might be you know putting a whole in-depth code in there but uh you got to balance the code with with the gameplay i mean if it's brutal fast gameplay you don't want super long code because you're never going to be able to reach the end yeah and it's always you're always going to walk that balance and i like that there are not just picking a lane and saying, hey, we're only releasing different versions of Iron Maiden, or we're only doing brutal tournament games. They're mixing up, really. They went back to back. They did Monsters, which is, I would say, a very friendly game. Unless you make Monsters harder, I'm not sure how much of a favorite it's going to be on the tournament scene. But right back to back, they go to Black Knight. I think they both have great art packages. They both are visually tantalizing. You want to go and say, hey, what's that?
    7:27
    And I think that they both certainly have potential. I just can't wait to get my hands on a Black Knight sort of rage and try it out for myself. I think it looks like a fun game. I think the pro plays really well. The pro does play really fun. And so I'm not sure how the upper play field is going to play into it. as I said before, I don't have that emotional connection with the legacy of Black Knight, Black Knight 2000. So it may be that it doesn't matter to me, but it may change the game for the better or for the worse, or just for personal preference, just depending on whether or not you want that over the playfield. We had one other thing happen to both of us this last week or two, I don't know what you want to call it, within the time that we've done the interview with Eric Meunier. And now that we're doing this one, we got invited to the Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdown to kind of talk about, I don't know what at this point. I know that Holly's reached out to us and we've talked about it. I won't be there because my babies still aren't out of the hospital.
    8:30
    But Scott has agreed to go to Denver to the show next weekend. So it's May 25th, 26th, and 27th. And we're trying to line up getting an interview with Dan, the gentleman over the show, to kind of give us a taste of what the show is about, how long it's been around and whatnot. But, yeah. You know, this is going to be really my first pinball show because I just haven't had the time to either go. There's no real shows that are within driving distance of Utah. And so unless you want to fly there and take time off work, It's always felt a little bit like an indulgent vacation for me to take some time off for my family.
    9:14
    However, this is fun, and we know Jeff Rivera from Pinball Podcast is going out, and he usually does something. So we actually reached out to him and said maybe we could do something jointly. I don't think Jessica DiNardo is going to be there either. and so with you not being there and Jessica not being there, Jeff and I will probably be able to figure out something to record either live or an interactive session or something along those lines I think it'll be really interesting because Jeff certainly has a more legacy perspective on pinball and I'm more of the newer kid on the block I think it'll be interesting to see what they have at the show but I'm really excited to check it out and see this isn't one of the bigger shows but it's certainly our local show and so if you start you want to start local and see what you have in your area well i think the other thing too is is uh i've listened to jeff talk about the show a couple times in the past between this the rocky mountain pinball showdown and in disc it's always like going back to family so it'll be kind of cool to i i wish i could go this is one of the shows i've wanted to go to nice parts i live about halfway between Salt Lake and Denver. I live more towards Salt Lake than Denver, but I've always wanted to go to the show. So it's kind of, kind of sucks that I got to stay, but I'm excited to be with my family. So, yeah. And, and, and I like that. We have said that, uh, our priorities are, and this is a hobby. Like I, uh, I appreciate, uh, the, the tenacity and the commitment that high level players have. and those who are willing to go to pinball competitions every weekend and to get better at pinball. I'm just not really in that phase of life right now, so I can't do that. But I think it's certainly a nice, fun hobby distraction that keeps me sane from all the things that we do on the day-to-day challenges of life, I guess. Well, not only that, but look at Jack Danger. It's awesome to see because he's already looking for someone to kind of take over his role of streaming because he's so dedicated to his streaming after his kid shows up. And so it's nice to see it's just not us. I know that sometimes we kind of look at the hobby and we see just the people up front. We don't see the people behind them that make the sacrifices. So it's good to see that some of the pinball people are making the sacrifices. Should we get into some news and notes? Go ahead. Awesome. I wrote down a couple things since it's kind of funny we took a week off I'd be afraid that we'd be all backed up on news and notes but it seems like the last two weeks has just kind of been nothing not necessarily nothing but it's I think it's a slow trickle yeah it's it's it's been more of a slow trickle because we had two releases and so and we recorded with Martin and we talked about Wonka's release and then we talked about Black Knight and so yeah we've had a few releases the nice thing about this is now we can talk about some other things that are going on so yeah I agree so I sent you the Cosmic Carnival video the gameplay video did you have the opportunity to take a look at that yeah yeah I took a look I have a hard time envisioning how it's going to feel when you play.
    12:45
    It certainly has that retro feel. It's almost like a – feels like a late 80s game where they're starting to get into, you know, ramps and movement, kind of like a roller games, I guess. Yeah. But it doesn't feel that it has the same – I don't want this to sound dismissive, but it doesn't feel like it has the nuance and the complexity that like a nineties Bally Williams color DMD does, or excuse me, not color DMD, just a dot matrix game where it, it feels like it has that early, you know, that right before Adam's family vibe.
    13:33
    Now that's not necessarily bad though, because you talk to a lot of these longterm players and a lot of these longterm players tend to gravitate toward those um those solid state games the pre-dmd games and so who knows maybe it'll fit into that um what are your thoughts what did you think when you saw it well and the disclaimer to the video too is i think they said they're only running on like 10 percent of code it's not like really a ton of code and so it's really hard to get a good feel of how the game will be uh watching the gentleman that was playing it i don't know if he was having a hard time playing it it seemed like one of three things either he was having a hard time or um the shots like the left and the right ramp seem to reject a lot especially the left one so i don't know if it's like too steep or third if like the whipper the the whippers the flippers are too weak to get it up those ramps so i know it's just adjustments that they need to make and the cool part about this cosmic cart and sun coast themselves is they're taking a lot of feedback and they are making the game better because this is an entirely different game from what we saw even at texas pin pinball festival three months ago and so i think it's interesting to see where they're going with it um i'm still not convinced it's for me but it's one of those games i have to get my hands on see what happens i know that and we've always had a disclaimer is that pinball doesn't have to be everything to everybody as long as they find a niche and they find a venue. The thing that I found a little interesting on the video though is that it didn't seem like he was doing much explaining what he was doing. And I always find the videos more interesting when they say, well, I'm trying to do this, I'm trying to do that. And that gives me a little more direction on to what's going on in the game so i still don't know really what to think about the game um who knows it's it's still i'm curious i guess i'll put it that way i'm curious well in the weird part i don't know if if this reminded anyone else like it did me but this game for some odd reason reminded me of fishtails and because fishtails you you know you shoot the right when it comes back to the right flipper you shoot the left one comes back to the left flipper he was doing that a lot. He would shoot the left ramp and come to back to left flipper, shoot the right ramp. And so there was a lot of that just because that symmetrical layout and whatnot, but yeah, yeah. Let's see where it goes. Well, I think it seems like by switching it up and actually not having the same plastic ramp, that's symmetrical. I think that's, it's fine. I like that they tried to mix it up and put the wire form in, but is it really changing much? because it seemed like the feed was still similar. You may have the speed of being a little different, being that it's a wire form and not just a plastic wrap. But I don't know if that's really going to affect anything other than cosmetics. Only time will tell. But it does look very pretty though. There's no argument there on that.
    16:59
    Have you been watching the Facebook? speaking of our black knight sort of rage discussion from a little bit earlier uh the facebook you'll have to be a little more specific about that so steve richie came out and was like you cheaters stop making the game steeper than seven percent he said pretty much six six and a half a half to 7 If you have any steeper than that you cheating because it takes away from the side to side action and actually makes the game easier. And so he came out with a bunch of different, uh, stuff that you can adjust or fix. I find this really cool because from it, it closes that gap between manufacturer and customer. and so I thought it was really cool for Steve Ritchie to personally be coming out and say hey do this this and this because we all know pinball out of the box is not perfect I don't know many people have set one up put all four legs on and went straight to work and there was no issues whatsoever and so Steve Ritchie is really trying to address those issues out of the box instead of he's focusing on fixing it instead of why everyone else is complaining I think it's certainly a step in the right direction if you get more feedback from manufacturers, then you certainly see what they intended. Now, just because they intended it that way doesn't necessarily mean that that's what the end user is going to do.
    18:26
    However, I think a lot of the tournament players are going to want that increased difficulty. A lot of times the reason why they jack up the legs is because they don't want the floaty ball. They basically want it to be challenging. And so if he's saying, well, it's going to do exactly the opposite if you jack it up, it's going to make it easier, then I think that that will be more challenging and be different because in some ways it's kind of like throwing a change-up in baseball. When you're only used to hitting fastballs, that can really mess with you. if the ball is going a lot slower than you anticipate.
    19:11
    I think it also works better with the vibe that he's going for in that he's channeling an 80s game. This is an 80s game with modern mechs. So I think this is actually the game he would have made for Black Knight 2000 if he had the technology back then.
    19:34
    But because he didn't, then... And this is his answer. I think that, yeah, as long as the flippers are strong and having that movement, it does make the game a little more challenging. That may affect how tournament-friendly it is, but we'll see. Have you been listening to Franchi's segment there on Slap Save Pinball? You know what? I was on vacation last week while you had your babies, and so I was with my family, so I didn't have a chance to catch up on much pinball at all.
    20:16
    And of course, once I got home, I immediately went back to work and had two late days, so I really haven't been able to hear much of what Franchi's been up to. What's he been stirring up lately? so I think I've learned something about Franchi and correct me if I'm wrong but the gentleman is a giant teddy bear maybe from the movie Ted but he's you have to get to know him and know his humor I think that's the thing is Franchi comes off as he'll shoot you straight and so it was kind of cool to hear from his perspective with the insider you know working behind the scenes and say, no, I want to correct what's been put out there and say, this is what actually happened. And so it's kind of cool to hear him doing that, but it makes me curious. I know me, you and Martin from head to head, we're talking about this the other day, but what does Stern approve of the releases? I mean, cause he just, they, uh, Franchi and Slapsave released the Superman 78 pinball art. And I know that Franchly released the Beetlejuice art. And so I'm kind of curious to the perspective from George Gomez and Stern. I know George said, you know, pretty much if it's not a passion project, we're not going to take it on. And so, yeah, there is that. But I don't think we've ever seen in this capacity people releasing projects that have been passed up by Stern.
    21:49
    And so it's cool to take a peek behind the curtain. I just hope there's no expense to anyone because of it. So – but yeah, what did you think of the Superman arc? Because I know you've seen that. Yeah. Well, first off, I'll go back a little bit. When I see an actor who gets photographed on TMZ because – and the caption on the bottom says, so-and-so was caught at the beach with his shirt off and walking around. Okay. How that happens is the publicist calls TMZ and says, hey, by the way, the star is going to be at the beach at this time, and this is where you go. So they get the pictures. Okay. So is it possible that this is Franchi just not caring and just doing his own thing? Sure. It also could be possible that there is some PR-driven element of Stern that's actually driving this. I think that they have been better at controlling the message in the last couple years than they have before that. so when I hear stories and I hear leaks or I hear stuff like that I think I think they're trying to help stay um in in the public domain in in in the in the moment and being able to capture that attention because by driving the story and by driving the uh the media then people are going to start talking about you more than other things so naturally it's kind of drawing the interest So when I see things that are either leaked, whether or not it's by Stern's permission or against Stern's permission, I do kind of question whether or not is this really a leak or is this just kind of a planned leak? so that being said we saw the Superman art Franchu released it and apparently this is a project that is not going to get done just like the Beetlejuice project in some ways I think it does work for Stern because there are more suspicions over games that are going to be released than there are confirmed releases.
    24:20
    And in some ways, I think it frees up the market if people say, well, my dream theme is X, and I'm going to hold out and not buy anything until that gets made. In some ways, I think they actually do a good job of shooting down some of those.
    24:38
    However, with Superman, I thought that the art, again, looks amazing. It looks great. If they were to make a Superman game, then I think that that would catch my eye. That art would certainly catch my eye.
    24:58
    However, just because it's a nostalgia theme doesn't mean it's marketable. So I think that what George Gomez is saying on, yeah, if there's no passion behind it, then people aren't going to pick it up. I also think they've done some market research to find out what will sell.
    25:17
    And they obviously did enough market research to find out that Batman 66 was going to sell, so they did that. The Superman 78, I'm not sure that that really had enough legs. And so they probably looked at it from a marketing standpoint, a business standpoint, and say, this is not going to be commercially viable. And so they moved on. Well, and I also think, like you said, Stern's done a lot of marketing. Me personally, two years ago, three years ago, when they announced Batman 66, you couldn't convince me that there was enough demand out there for it. But here we are now, and it's touted as one of the best games that's been made in recent years. We've got, you know, Jack Danger saying it's his favorite game. And you've got just different perspectives on Batman 66. you know a lot of people don't like some the way the layout is a little bit but other than that people are loving batman 66 and so i just it's weird to me i i stopped claiming hey this would make a good theme or this would not because some of the themes that have been made i would assume wouldn't be great at all like i never thought an iron an iron maiden pinball machine would be a good concept but hey here we are it's it's the best one in the last 20 years so or at least i guess i can't claim the last 20 years we'll just say it one game of the year last year let's do that but you see what i'm saying like i just i guess i don't have my finger on the pulse like stern does and so my faith is in them if if they if they're passing on it because they don't feel like it's a viable option then then so be it love the artwork dude franchi kills it every time. I just, I have no complaints. I just, I'm not an artist, so I'm astounded every time I see it. So yeah, he really does have an amazing grasp onto what works. Um, and it just, it always looks amazing. It looks like it was a photo shoot from, uh, what, uh, uh, what the actors were posing to do. I mean, it looks like Christopher Reeves and there's a lot of times and and um i appreciate that he at least put on there that he had different poses and it was different aspects of him which i i loved and uh i know that that's driven by the the licensor uh for the most part which is why um he was probably again this is me this is me speculating this is why he was probably locked into putting chris pratt in the same pose five times on guardians of the galaxy um but that's the i think that's the pose that disney wanted or that um you know whoever was in control of guardians of the galaxy that's what they wanted um when you talk about a game yes theme plays into it but how much of this do you think was driven by Lyman sheets.
    28:22
    I mean, seriously. That game had no legs. When it first came out, it came out and there was nothing.
    28:31
    But just glance over what Lyman's done. So Lyman's done ACDC. Legendary game. He's done Attack from Mars. Legendary game. Okay, he did Batman in the doldrums. The original Batman in the Dark Knight. not the original original but the dark knight yeah so that was in the eight and in 0807 okay fine then he had batman 66 okay great one uh big buck hunter csi so these are all if anytime i read something off it's that is a a miss i would say it's probably during the dark days of stern that well you're missing a couple of them in there that were very vital i mean think of metallica and also The Walking Dead. Okay, but yes. Tron, 2010 past. Guns N' Roses in the glory days. Indiana Jones at Clunker in that Doldrums era. Iron Man, 2010 on. Avatar, okay. I know Martin loves it, but Medieval Madness back in the glory days. Metallica, 2010 on.
    29:36
    Monster Bash, glory days. Spider-Man, okay. That may be the one standout in 2007. Rolling Stones, The Proud. So yes, I think it just depends on what Wyman is able to do. But he's done such an amazing job that he knows how to make a game that high-level players want to play. So my question to you is then, if you took Batman 66 and stripped away all the code and did just basic code, not basic, but let's say we had a different designer do that game. Do you think Batman 66 would have got as far as it has now without Lyman? Absolutely not. There's no chance. That would have been dead in the water. They would have dropped it and moved on. They basically said, we're all in on this. This is going to be – they were able to lock up their best designer or their best code writer and lock him up until he was able to work on this crazy code forever and this crazy expensive game. And really, it's crazy expensive for anything. And they were able to make something – they were able to make a diamond out of coal. sadly I still am disappointed that there is no location version of this game I've played one this game once it's at a collector's house that has tons of high end stuff but he hosts something once a year he's not a regular he's a nice guy but he's just not a regular so I don't get much time on the game I wish if Stern had something that good that was well-respected like that, that they would have been able to find a way to give it to the masses. Well, and you bring up Blake's collection, because I really think that's the only Batman 66 that I know of in the state of Utah.
    31:41
    That game, it was fun to play. Don't get me wrong, it was fun to play. But even the one that I was playing was having issues with it. Something to do with the magnet inside the spinning or the turntable. I know it's not a spinning disc. But, yeah, I just – I want more time on this game. There's so much good buzz around it that I want more time on it. Yeah, there's so many great players that want – that love this game. And so there is something there. There's a reason. It's the same thing with Walking Dead. Walking Dead was left for dead. Unintended, right? Yeah. But after Lyman was able to work his magic – because people always said, oh, well, it doesn't matter what the code says. you can't fix geometry. Well, apparently you can fix something with the code because people suddenly started liking a game that they didn't like before. Well, moving on. Well, in the same realm as this, you saw the Catwoman version of Batman 66, right? And also the Color Premium and Munsters.
    32:43
    And they're both premiums. I know someone was kind of throwing a fit. Is this a premium? Is this a limited edition? They're both premiums. It said right in the picture, right next to the LCD screen. They're both premiums. Do you think that there's enough warranted for a Catwoman version of Batman 66? Because honestly, in my opinion, I don't know if Munsters is doing as great as CERN had hoped. And so they're throwing another curveball with this color premium. Sorry, I'm mixing two together at once. So first off, Catwoman, what's your thoughts? Okay, I'll take Batman first for $100. Okay. I think that now that the code is 1.0 and high-level players have played it and said they really like the code, I think it will change the buzz around the game.
    33:31
    We all know that it really was one of the worst releases, that it just felt like a lead balloon because it looked so pretty, but it was just not ready for primetime when it was released. I understand as a business that you need to really look at the whole picture and Stern knew it wasn't ready but obviously Adam West was not in good health and so they pushed it to get that out while he was still alive and I have to give them a pass or at least an understanding for that now that the game is done and there's going to be more demand for it I think it makes sense for them to say, Hey, there's going to be more demand for this game. You guys all said, this is a great game. Do you want to buy a different version? Do you want to buy the Lucy version? Do you want, you know, do you want to buy the, the special premium version? I, I fine with that I think it perfect It the perfect way of saying yes there a different version that available I wish that they had this available when it was launched because I think it would have changed the initial reception of the game However, they've been able to do a good job of resurrecting a game that I thought was going to be left for dead. I agree. uh with the monsters what are your thoughts on the colorized premium version um i think honestly this is a game right now it has fantastic flow uh it's an enjoyable game to shoot um i just i don't think changing the premium or giving a color option to the premium is the saving grace that it needs. I think the code just needs to be worked a little bit. I think that's where the focus should be. And it feels a little too soon. Monsters was just released in January. Why are we releasing a colored version in, what, we're in May now, five months later? That's the other goofy part too. I guess this has not been confirmed nor denied from Stern yet. And I might be wrong, maybe there has been, but I find it really weird that we're doing it's about that time of the season where they released the not the remake, the Vault and they're releasing pretty much Batman 66, a game that was released a couple years ago and Monsters that was released in January, and there might still be a Vault coming. Personally, me color doesn't do a difference for the premium for me. It's not a game I'm looking to buy, so it's just awesome they came out with the color version i don't know i don't know what to put to it you know what i'm saying yeah see i think you're wrong um i actually think you're dead wrong on this i think that um the black and white version looks spectacular but it was kind of a hipster choice um when people looked at that they're like oh that's the cool different black and white version because if you look at there's a there's a a black and white twilight zone thread on pin side where people look at that and say, wow, that's kind of cool.
    36:46
    People are still going to want the color version. They're going to want the version that has the color splash. And you look at the LE and looked at the premium and you said, wow, the LE, that color looks fantastic. So I think that their premium sales were probably lagging a little bit. And so this was a quick way of doing a reversal to sell more. Or this could have been, hey, a marketing ploy and saying, we have this planned all along and we just wanted to get the black and white premiums out there. And then after the hipsters bought those up who wanted that special version, we're going to lease the colored premium. it could be that just like the Lucy edition on the original ACDC, the black and white version may be the rare version and may actually hold its value more than the colorized version. But they're, they're trying to sell games and people said, Hey, the black and white version is cool. I still want a colored version option. And they said, Oh, what, how much are you willing to pay me? Oh, a premium. Oh, okay, great. We'll make that. We'll see where the demands are. I, I don't doubt that they'll sell these, but I just, I find it weird. I think it's a great home game. Yeah. It's a good game that people who are casual about pinball, who just want something fun in their basement and they're in that 50 to 60 year old market where they say, Hey, I'm having a game room. Oh, that I remember that theme. That's something I connect with. I can put that up. Yeah. Great. And I think that that will really draw people in and say, yeah, this is, hey, this is fun. So when they have all their old timers over, then they'll say, hey, that's cool. I played pinball when I was a kid. So it's smart marketing. Yeah. I don't disagree with you there on the smart marketing, but I'm just intrigued to see where it goes.
    38:48
    Yeah. And I like more options. So I like that we're in this manufacturing window where they can change things on the fly. They can customize things. They can respond to market demand. And I think it really will change the variety out there. I think it's great. So last week I was listening to This Week in Pinball. Ken Cromwell was the co-host with Zach Manning. And they made a giant announcement that Zach wants the most current games streamed. They want a good feeling of what the game feels like. And pretty much they'll stream it every week until the next game comes out. And so Zach was trying to find someone to stream this. And I guess Bill and Ken decided to step up, which is perfect for them because they live in Chicago. So Zach told them to go pick up an Oktoberfest and they streamed it tonight. Did you watch this at all? You know, I was so busy right until recording, so no. It was pretty cool. So they had Josh Kugler and Joe there talking about Oktoberfest. And it was like a behind the scenes while also getting to play the game. Plus, it seemed like all the pinball podcasts were there. Dennis Creasel and Tony from Eclectic Gamers. Pinball nerds were there.
    40:14
    Straight down the middle, you know, Zach was there because obviously it's flipping out brand name, pushing this. And so he wanted to be there.
    40:23
    Oh, the gentleman that does Penn Stadiums. Scott. I was going to say Jeff. You're pretty good to either get Jeff or Scott, if you say that with any kind of pinball thing. Yes. But Scott was there. Slapsave was there. I mean, it was just really cool because it was kind of like a behind-the-scenes, chill, laxing moment with all the podcasts and the guys that made the game. I'm excited after this to just get my hands on Oktoberfest. I haven't got to play one yet.
    40:53
    no title for me is an automatic title in my house. And so the beer theme doesn't really speak to me, but Hey, if it's a great game, I mean, the shadow is not a great theme. I still want it. So, yeah, I know one. I know one that could be for sale. Oh, let's stumble it together. It's a build your own adventure. Oh, let's not, oh, let's not even go there. I feel terrible about that. But I, so if you want to hang out with the cool kids, or I don't know if we call ourselves the cool kids, if you want to hang out with... I think by definition, our podcast name says that we don't identify as the cool kids. Correct. We'll get there, because today is origin story time, kids. Right back to this.
    41:36
    Okay, so, yeah, it was just really cool. If you want to come hang out, I think we'll be there. We'll try to make it.
    41:44
    It seems like every other podcast was there. Come join us. It was fun. Good job, Special One Lit. it was a great show. We'll have to start streaming from our own basements. We will have to do that. So actually I have thought about that. I've thought about, uh, talking, uh, to Martin and figuring out like what, what sort of portable rig there is. I think that if I started streaming, I'd probably play me on games more. Uh, Jack danger. And I've been talking a lot about it. I'll send you over the stuff he sent me. Okay. Do you want to come over and assign it? I would love just to have someone assemble it and I can just play the games. Yeah, we'll see. we'll figure it out so cool um so that pretty much wraps it up for news and notes uh like i told you i'm going to take this quick moment because uh every time we've been announced on other podcasts and other features like this week in pinball and stuff like that they always say loser kid pinball podcast the saddest name for pinball podcast or the most self-deprecating name And I want to set the record straight. So we're going back 15 years right now, kids. We're going back to when Blink-182 was huge. This was, they just finished up with Take Off Your Pants and Jacket, and they had released the self-title album.
    43:04
    They owned a clothing company called Loser Kids. You see where this is going? Anywho, so they had a clothing line before Macbeth that they called Loser Kids. It was kind of just a distributorship that got a bunch of skater punk clothes, and then they would sell it through their website. The name kind of got lost. They kind of just abandoned it. But the bunny that you see associated with Blink-22 is the Loser Kid Bunny.
    43:32
    So growing up in high – well, I guess we're all growing up in high school. In high school, I don't want to say I was a loser, but because of who I am, one of the things that made me stand out is I refused to drink alcohol.
    43:54
    It's a very personal story to me. It doesn't really necessarily have to do with – I had a gentleman in a bar. I told him, hey, I don't drink alcohol because he wanted to play some pinball and drink some beers with me. I said, I just don't drink. and then he kind of gave me the well you go to church isn't it and i said no it's not the church and i gave him the story and then the dude was like well that's a buzzkill i'm like dude you're the one that brought it up so i'm like if you're gonna attack me when you don't even know me i will give you my story i'm not going to share my story here it's a little long um it involves other people that i'd prefer not to discuss on this podcast but if you ever see me and you want to hear the story i'd be more than happy to share it with you it's not I don't know if it will kill your buzz. It did this gentleman, but I think it's because he was trying to prove a point, which then got shot down. Yeah. But, but a who, because I, I didn't drink alcohol and let my friends did, uh, they often made fun of me and called me a loser. So me being a huge blink way to fan, liking the loser kid symbolism, I then took loser and thought, well, I'm not like everyone else. So that makes me a loser, which isn't a bad thing in my opinion. Um, And then I always want to be a kid, even though I have adult responsibilities, even though I love my family, even though I don't mind paying the bills and going to work and getting stuff done. I never want to grow up. I always want to relate to my kids. And so hence the name Loser Kid. Bam. And so in my world, it's more of a positive thing. And I think it's a cool thing to stand out from everyone else. uh doesn't matter what it may be especially in pinball it seems like all of us as pinheads stand out from the rest of the world because of our hobby um there's not many people that you know on a normal or not normal what's the word i'm looking for average average basis that is into pinball. So I would say Loser Kid is not a downer. It's a unique name.
    46:01
    And so in that spirit, I'm going to dub some honorary Loser Kids right now. Eric Meunier, since you came on our podcast, you are officially a Loser Kid. If you want to use the title, you're more than welcome to. You're also the first kid who actually decided to take a chance and get interviewed for our first interview, which I definitely appreciate. Yes. So you're our number one loser kid for the pinball industry. I also want to extend the loser kid title to Jeff Rivera of the pinball podcast because he's taught us a lot on this journey as we've been doing this. And he was nice enough to also come along on our journey and record an episode. And same with Dan Newman for teaching us about tournaments and stuff like that. So use it what you will. Maybe we can get some cool patches. I don't know. We'll talk about later. I think, I think it's cool personally me. And so if you want to be a loser kid, reach out to us and we'll talk about it. We'll talk about getting you on the show or doing something. But I see loser kids, a positive thing. I know it's kind of a weird thing to think, but that's what it is. Yeah. I just kind of look at it as how, when, And when I was growing up, being called a nerd was bad. And now people just self-appoint, I'm a nerd. And it's just, no, that's who I am. And it just kind of identifies which lane you're in. So I don't really, I don't have any negative connotations to that. It's just like, yeah, it's kind of, it's more declaring you're doing your own thing. And I'm okay with that.
    47:39
    Nothing wrong with that at all. So, well, I wanted to do one more thing before we wrap this up. I wanted to talk about, you know, head to head's been doing their whole music pin thing. They were talking about rush and it with me being from a music background since I was in a band and traveled and enjoyed rubbing shoulders with other people in music and with music and fluing such so much my high school life. I want to talk our top three music pins. I know I have three. Did you come up with three? I actually did. Yeah.
    48:11
    Perfect. So I want you to, let's go back and forth. Let's start at our bottom. What's your number three music pin that you would want? See, I'm not sure how relevant this band is currently, but imagine yourself back in 1987,
    48:32
    and you're sitting there and you walk into a bar and you see a Def Leppard pinball machine. you are definitely going to go and put some money in that and you're going to crank up, pour some sugar on me. Multiple.
    48:48
    Okay. I like it. So actually I think that Def Leppard would translate really well. I'm not sure it has the, the dry once did, but I'm that kind of retro eighties look. I think it would work out really well. I think also, So I think there is more demand for it than you think just because Netflix did their documentary or whatever it was about Motley Crue, and there was a lot of good reception to it. Yeah, but Motley Crue, that definitely would be an NSFW pinball machine.
    49:25
    I don't know why I went with Motley Crue. You said Def Leppard. Oh, my goodness. Sorry. okay i will say motley crew would be an interesting one but uh the pinhole machines would only be in let's just say uh gentlemen's clubs yeah yeah can be right there next to playboys probably true i don't know how they would sell but it would be interesting so martin gave away my number three on head to head uh i grew up with some 41 it was the first band i kind of connected with there was a song called fat lip came out it was punk rock mixed with a little bit of rap um it was fantastic they as they grew up they went more towards the metal side and i think that metal vibe plays well already into pinball and so i think it would play well especially with their background stories and stuff like that um because uh their album chuck they almost lost their live over or lives um i think that would play really cool into a pinball machine trying to get get to the helicopter to get away from the firefight stuff like that for interest in checking it out um it's the sum 41 documentary you can't miss it so that's my number three i i really like their music if if you want to check them out i say if you like more metal check out chuck if you like more pop punk check out all killer no filler and they've got some 80s metal vibes in there as well because they They grew up listening to Judas Priest and Iron Maiden.
    50:56
    Well, I listen to Iron Maiden, not much of Judas Priest. Okay. All right, what's your number two? Number two. So I'm trying to figure out which this is. Okay. And I know this has been said before, but Van Halen. Like, I don't understand why Van Halen does not have a pinball machine. I mean, Van Halen would be perfect. And, yeah, actually, I'm actually one of the minorities that actually think the Van Hagar era is actually a better era than the early – the David Lee Roth early, the first four albums.
    51:36
    However, for the pinball machine, you go with early, you go with 1984 and back. You have killer music there It certainly is a killer vibe That retro Van Halen logo that you can put up there it just screams cockiness It screams that bravado of being a 20 who wants to light the world on fire and that would work really well in a bar You don't even have to do a back class. You could just put the first Van Halen album up there with all four of them doing their poses, and you are good to go. But that would be a crazy awesome theme that I think would sell. Yeah, I agree. That would be a really cool one, actually.
    52:30
    I love Eruption. I think that would just be a fantastic Eruption multiball or whatever, you know. Well, that would be a solo. So that should be a solo ball epic. See how long you can keep that thing going. Yeah, I agree. All right. My number two is not actually a band.
    52:48
    Here's my concept. Warped Tour. It did over 20 plus years of touring through America. When people think Warped Tour, they usually think skateboarding and they think punk rock bands. but if you've ever been to a warp tour there were six different stages at warp tour and each stage kind of did their own genre because they didn't want say if you were into metal they didn't want the metal bands competing with each other so there was one stage that was metal so you wouldn't have to really worry about which one you're looking for and the cool part about the concept of this pinball machine is you wouldn't narrow yourself into one uh music genre i don't know if anyone knows this i don't know how well you know your your warp tour history but eminem played on warp tour black eyed peas katie perry billy idol joan jett and the black hearts um not the black hearts Beck, Ice-T, for heaven's sakes, there's such an eclectic amount of artists that played on Warped Tour, and you could do six different stages as the modes you have to collect, and that theme or that genre would be tied to that stage. and so i i imagine this so there's a metal theme you could pick between avenge sevenfold a day to remember um some of those and once you once you've played that stage and collected it you move on to the next one or you can you can move around from stage to stage because that's a nice part about warp tour you did not have to stay at one stage and so it could be a very open freelance kind of game that's not so linear i think it has a lot of potential and the other cool part would be having the spinning discs like you would in pirates of the caribbean and that would be your mosh pit and getting the balls up into there so they're all moshing and doing the circle i don't know it's it's a no in my opinion it's a no-brainer to do even if warp tour is not your thing some type of festival because it then takes the ability to do multiple bands that you might not necessarily get one pinball machine out of, but they could work together to make one epic pinball machine.
    55:09
    Yeah. I guess I would think, uh, I would think more of Lollapalooza, but that was probably before your time. Um, and, uh, you could do a Monsters of Rock tour. And that was kind of the biggest eighties bands, but in some ways that seems kind of generic. I don't know. I don't know if that would work. Uh, I don't know if I would really be drawn in by that. And I guarantee you could get Jeffree Star to do the call-outs because Jeffree Star was on Warped Tour one year as well. How cool would that be? Come on, Jeffree. I know you want to be in a pinball machine. Okay. All right. My number one pinball machine theme. Okay, drum roll.
    55:51
    Journey. Okay. Journey had their – now, yes, they have cheesy love songs. But there are so many great rock songs that would really work out well. And if you look at Journey's visuals, they have a very distinct look. And it was basically kind of this early 80s illustrator.
    56:23
    What am I looking for? it's a kind of futuristic commercial art look it's very distinct but it also feels very classic and I think that there would be some really great imagery that you could make into a game and say oh that's really interesting Journey actually had a great video game back in the day and you would go through and you'd collect all the band members however they had some problems with it because it would take pictures of the people with the high scores and there were people with their shirts off that ended up on these games. Now, it may work for now but it didn't really work in 1982.
    57:08
    Yeah. But I think that Journey would be a fantastic game visually. It would look great and I actually think that it would be really super it would be a big seller. I agree. There is a lot of, not only is Journey, in my opinion, considered one of the best bands of the 80s, it's still relevant to today. When I DJ even kids' dances for high school, when I start playing Journey, I turn the music down because all those kids are singing it, and you can't hear the music over them singing it. So I think it's still relevant to this day as well. Well, it kind of had a big comeback with Sopranos. okay so my number one it's really obscure but because of this band i think it would integrate into pinball so well that's undeniable that it would that it would make a great pinball machine i don't know if you've ever heard of these guys but the aquabats have you heard the aquabats yeah okay go with me on this so this is a band that only has made music but they've made a tv series they've made um funny gadgets and stuff like that so the the appeal of the aquabats is their surf rock uh mixed with ska and so at one point as a joke that was ska was at their height they had 14 members in their band.
    58:41
    They're right at five right now. They always get teased as the band that used to have Travis Barker from Blink-22, the drummer that everyone knows because he drums for everyone. But here's the thing about the Aquabats. They've got a story to their band. Each band member has a special power or a special superpower.
    59:01
    And the call-outs and everything would be fantastic. Just imagine trying to collect all five band members. There's the MC Bat Commander.
    59:11
    There's Eaglebone Falconhawk. There's Crash McLarson, Ricky Fitness, and Jamie the Robot. You're trying to collect these guys, and then every time, kind of like Monster Bash, you collect all five of them. But then as you get their power, that power would then enhance the game. So let's say you get Crash McLarson. His special superpower is to grow really big.
    59:35
    Well, double your two times, three times play field. would be his after you've collected him and you start his superpower um ricky fitness is really fast at drumming have a like a fast hurry up mode i mean there's just so much that could play so well and easily with this band that it just makes sense to me if you've ever seen them live um they play their superhero persona on stage they come out all dressed as if you don't know who these guys are, please go check them out. The Aquabats. Charge, in my opinion, is their best CD.
    60:09
    A lot of people like the Fury, the Aquabats. That's a really good one too. But they fight villains on stage. There could be a villain multiball where you fight the Sand Fleas is the name of one of the villains they fight. It's a great theme all the way around and it's a family friendly theme. If you want to take your kid, your five-year-old to their first concert, take them to the Aquabats you're not going to have to worry about them swearing they created Yo Gabba Gabba for heaven's sakes they're fantastic I really think that their band would integrate so well into pinball it would be great if done right no I don't know what you're saying I am so lost in this conversation it's a good thing this isn't a video chat because my face is just with my jaw drawn open and i have no idea what you're talking about the wizard mode they've got a song that's literally called look at me i'm a winner think of look at me i'm a winner wizard mode come on if you're gonna go with that then why do you go with like the 1970s super friends where you're collecting like the wonder twins and you're collecting Hawkman and Wonder Woman and Aquaman before he was cool.
    61:32
    Because this is music pins. This is music pins. And so their music would integrate so well. Okay, Jack Black is an Aqua Cadet. So if you're a huge fan of the Aquabats, they have the Aqua Cadets. Jack Black is one of the guys that's pushing to get the Aquabats, their TV series back. I mean, there's just so much entrenched there, especially with Jack Black being like, everyone, check out pinball. Yeah, okay. I think this is your passion project that would sell one to you and your mom. I just – No. I'm sorry. There's no chance this would sell. I do not believe that. There's no chance anyone would – basically, Gary Stern and George Gomez would be throwing you out of the Stern pitch booth so fast if you went there and said you wanted to do an Aquabats pinball machine.
    62:23
    Dude, they've been around for almost 30 years. There is weight under them. They've got a following. Okay, now you did hit on Motley Crue. Motley Crue would actually make a great pinball machine.
    62:36
    You should probably stick with that one. No, I'm sticking with the Aquabats. Because if I got Lyman on that code along with Franchi artwork and John Borg or Steve Ritchie layout, that – well, I'm sorry. I just kind of put a super team together anyway. So they should do the super friends. Yes. Either that – well, you could do a Miley Cyrus, Hannah Montana pinball machine with that team, and it would still sell. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But my point being is it's a theme that shouldn't be discounted. If you haven't listened to the Aquabats, please, please just listen to look at my, I've done this and either people do one or two things. They go, that is the greatest song I've ever heard. Look at me. I'm a winner. It's the greatest song I've ever heard in my life. Or the other reaction is what are you smoking? And you should get out of here. I really think this pin moment should only sell in Colorado and maybe around in San Francisco where there's a lot of 420 going on. I just can't imagine anybody wanting this game.
    63:45
    You are, you, you are. Well, I didn't think that about Batman 66, but here we are. You are so far off the rails.
    63:53
    Hey, people have backed me with this concept on pin side. Okay. One dude, one dude, one person, person has backed you, not people. Okay. No, seriously, Write in. Everyone, write on our Facebook page, tell Scott he is wrong and that we need an Aquabats pinball machine. There's no chance for the three people who are following us, there's no chance we're going to get anybody who sides with you. There's zero chance. You never know. Creason might send us a full page message on how this is the theme that needs to be made. Okay, if you get more than ten people who say that's a good idea, that's still not a spooky title.
    64:34
    True. That's a Heroes of Valhalla or the Wrath of Olympus numbers. Okay, I'll make a poll. How about this? Let's see if we can get anyone to go to our Facebook page, Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, and we'll have a poll.
    64:56
    Yes, it's a good idea. No, it's terrible. This is just going to be so sad because it's going to only have like three people vote. It's going to be you, me, and my wife, maybe. You know what? But if three people vote and they all say yes, I'm still right. Okay, well, you do not have a vote for me. I think you're crazy.
    65:17
    Come on, Creasel. You know you're on my side. Wow. I want the next rant to be Franchi telling you how quickly you would have been thrown out of the pitch session. Okay, okay. All right. If you guys agree or disagree with our music pin ideas, send us a DM, a PM, whatever they're calling them nowadays, through Facebook. Yeah. Get a hold of us at LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com or at SnellMellis. I don't know. Yeah.
    65:54
    But yeah, that was our ideas. so wow yeah I don't even know what to think I have to look up half the bands you talked about because I have no idea what you're talking about well actually all three of your things I have no idea who some 182 or 55 or whatever that is and the Warped Tour I don't know I must have been in college during that I have no idea who was on the Warped Tour I thought you were going to say like ozfest or something which i'm like yeah ozfest would be great warped tour was in 1995 is when it started oh yeah yeah yeah so you you hit right in the middle of my college days which means i went to i went to a school in the morning work in the afternoon and studied at night and apparently someone uh someone down the uh the road was downloading uh everything on napster at the time. See, perfect. Yeah. You could have been there. I don't know what to tell you. I couldn't have been there because I was broke. I couldn't even buy the dollar menu back then. Dude, that was the appeal of Warped Tour. It was dirt cheap and you got to see 50 plus bands for $20. There's a reason why I didn't get into pinball back then because I couldn't even afford to pay dollars into just playing dollar games. Yeah, true.
    67:17
    Well, cool. I think that pretty much wraps it up. It's almost midnight for us guys. And it's probably midnight for when we're going to release this episode. I usually do it midnight Australia time. So that's right. Yes. But cool. Uh, it looks like we may or may not be dropping an episode next week. So keep an eye out for that. Uh, it may or may not happen. I'm not going to make any promises guys. I got two, I got two twins now. I don't know what to do with myself. Well, hopefully we'll be able to at least drop a quick interview episode and talk about the, um, the rocky mountain pinball showdown coming up yeah so i want to clarify i have two babies that happen to be twins i do not have two sets of twins that would be awesome though yeah i guess whatever floats your boat did i have i ever told you about my cousin no my cousin had a girl girl twin girls twin girls like this was all spontaneous her mom was a twin and yeah apparently it runs in the family there nice so six girls two sets of twins you know it's funny we have a boy and a girl twin and we're going to start putting like rules on Facebook they're not identical right yeah yes they're twins no they're not identical one's a boy one's a girl and I live in a small town so usually the follow up question is oh you're having twins did you hear someone else is having quadruplets or whatever they are yes I've heard trust me I've heard it multiple times yeah I wouldn't want quadruplets no me neither but alright man always good to talk to you okay sounds good well go and take care of those babies will do you take care of your children sounds good I think they're still asleep but I'm not sure alright man okay catch you later