#37 - Led Zeppelin Gameplay Reveal TODAY

A Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·29m 29s·analyzed·Dec 19, 2020

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

Host analyzes Led Zeppelin pre-reveal design compromises and anticipates gameplay mechanics test.

Summary

A Pinball Podcast host provides extensive pre-reveal analysis of the Led Zeppelin pinball machine ahead of its gameplay reveal on Stern's Facebook. The host discusses design compromises due to licensing asset limitations, anticipated shot layout questions (particularly the right ramp and upper flipper mechanics), the new 160+ RGB lighting system, and innovative music-driven rule set designed by Tim Sexton that changes shot targets based on song segments. The host balances criticism of artistic choices and sparse playfield design against optimism about potential gameplay execution.

Key Claims

Led Zeppelin has 10 full-length licensed songs, totaling approximately 50 minutes to an hour of music
high confidence · Stated as confirmed fact about what Stern is providing in the game
The Pro model lacks a loop shot due to design constraints, creating poor flow compared to designer Steve Ritchie's typical work
high confidence · Host directly criticizes this specific design choice and claims to have spoken to 50+ people who agree
Asset acquisition was extremely difficult and expensive, as evidenced by redundancies in artwork across models
medium confidence · Host speculates based on visual observation of repeated artwork elements, not confirmed by Stern
The center ramp was advertised as hittable from all three flippers, which is unusual and potentially physics-defiant from the upper flipper
high confidence · Host references official Stern marketing materials and compares to Avengers Infinity Quest precedent
The right ramp appears to be one of the longest right ramp shots in recent Stern production, comparable to Sopranos' Meadowland shot
medium confidence · Host's visual analysis of playfield photos; based on memory of recent pins rather than official specs
Tim Sexton's rule set is innovative and divides songs into segments (chorus, bridge, vocals, solo) with changing shot targets
high confidence · Host attributes this to public statements by Tim Sexton; matches official Stern communications
The LE will be streamed tomorrow (unconfirmed)
low confidence · Host cites unconfirmed YouTube comments as source, explicitly requests verification

Notable Quotes

“I haven't talked to one person. I'm talking over 50 people, individual people I've talked to about this game, and not one has been happy or excited about that shot on the pro.”
A Pinball Podcast host @ ~8:00 — Demonstrates significant community consensus against the Pro model's loop shot removal
“It's all they could get. It's all they could get. Now, we can be in two camps about this.”
A Pinball Podcast host @ ~10:00 — Key statement about licensing asset limitations shaping game design
“I don't know of any other way that this pen could have came out without seriously rocking the boat... with all these LEs selling out, I don't know if anything needs to change from a business perspective.”
A Pinball Podcast host @ ~15:00 — Acknowledges business rationale for design compromises despite fan frustration
“That whole middle area... it doesn't look like it should work physics wise. But if it can work, I think that would be just, it would be a highly satisfying type shot.”
A Pinball Podcast host @ ~27:00 — Expresses curiosity about technical achievement and player engagement of advertised three-flipper center ramp
“I am so hyper aware of what this is just the idea of what I think it's going to be and what I've heard that I almost feel like I kind of have a grasp on it but then at the same time I feel like I don't.”
A Pinball Podcast host @ ~35:00 — Demonstrates unusually high uncertainty about rule set despite host's stated expertise, reflecting innovative nature of design
“The ability to mesh that all together... with the lights, the music, the sound changes based on song segments... I think you could really create some excellent moments in a pen that we haven't seen before out of a Stern pen.”
A Pinball Podcast host @ ~39:00 — Host identifies music-integrated rule design as potential saving grace for game despite visual design criticisms

Entities

Led Zeppelingame Steve Ritchieperson Tim SextonpersonStern PinballcompanyGuns N' Rosesgame Avengers Infinity Questgame The Mandalorianproduct

Signals

?
business_signal: Stern prioritizing LE sellout success over asset investment; host questions if this model incentivizes quality improvement given existing demand
medium · Host: 'if they're still selling out of LE's I don't know what will change in the future and I don't know if anything needs to change from a business perspective'
~
sentiment_shift: Significant community pushback against modern album-cover artwork aesthetic on Led Zeppelin; described as worst artwork response the host has witnessed
high · Host: 'the entire pinball community... has come together as one to give the biggest thumbs down to modern artwork on a pinball machine that I have seen'
?
design_philosophy: Pro model loop shot removal creates poor flow, contradicting Steve Ritchie's design philosophy; 50+ community members reportedly unhappy
high · Host: 'I haven't talked to one person... not one has been happy or excited about that shot on the pro' and attributes to design constraints rather than designer choice
?
design_philosophy: Tim Sexton rule set implements unprecedented music-segment-driven shot targeting (chorus, bridge, vocals, solo) with synchronized lighting and scoring changes
high · Host cites Tim Sexton public statements and describes system as innovative and unprecedented in Stern catalog
?
licensing_signal: Led Zeppelin asset acquisition was extremely difficult and expensive, resulting in artwork redundancies across cabinet designs
medium · Host observes repeated artwork elements and speculates: 'that usually is an indicator that certain assets had... it's all they could get'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.088

0:00

All right, welcome back to another episode of A Pinball Podcast. Thank you guys once again for being here. I greatly do appreciate it. And man, today is going to be lit. Today is a lit day, and it's a great day to be a pinball fan and a pop culture fan. It really is, like a Star Wars nerd. I have everything ready to go. I've got my child slash rogu, little Funko Pop right here. I got this. I got my Boba Fett cup, mug, whatever you want to call it. I got it all here. If you're listening to this on the podcast, you're just like, what the hell is he talking about right now? But if you're watching me on YouTube, you know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm fired up. The season finale of The Mandalorian does come on. It should already be on, actually, as of this podcast, but I will get to watch it later tonight, and I'm super psyched about that. So please, no spoilers in the comments. I swear I will hunt you down. I will find where you are, and I will show up, and I'll just throw toilet paper at your house. Although, well, 2020, you'll probably be happy about that. What the hell am I talking about? Anyways, so we're going to get on to this, guys. This podcast is not about The Mandalorian, although that would be fantastic. But this podcast is going to be about Led Zeppelin. And this is one of the final podcasts we'll finally do about Led Zeppelin until the next podcast. Let's just face facts, guys. But Led Zeppelin is going to be revealed later today on Stern's Facebook on, I guess it would be what? facebook.com forward slash stern pinball i think for those scoring at home so if you guys are expecting it to be on twitch it's not there guys it's not there it's on facebook now if you can't be there at 6 p.m u.s central standard time don't fret or maybe you should fret if they don't record it and put it on youtube because that you know the vod it's most likely going to be muted it just is just because of the music that's being played guys that's what's going to end up happening so keep that in mind. You might not get to hear it on Facebook afterwards, which is highly likely. I would say most likely 100% likelihood, which is obviously as high as you could possibly go. So if you're not there at 6 p.m., just be checking for it on YouTube. I have to assume that they're back up recording this and that they will post it on their YouTube page afterwards. If not, that would be a little bit of a fail. So I'm making that assumption. Now, we're going to go over a little bit on Led Zeppelin in terms of what we are to expect out of it for tonight. Now, what's happening with Led Zeppelin right now is there is essentially an avalanche all around it right now. I mean, legitimately, in one corner, you have people wanting a modern theme. In another one, you have people that are begging for an asset-filled game. And thus, they're judging this off guns and roses, and now they're seeing Led Zeppelin. and they're wondering what the hell happened. And then you have other people that are seeing this come out right after a Keith Elwin banger that just came out with Avengers Infinity Quest. This game is coming out right after that, just a few months afterwards. And then you have other people like me that are seeing this pin, and we're just generally underwhelmed by some of the choices in the final design that were a result of the bomb. It obviously was, and I'm talking about just the pro design, Which is a shame because obviously this wasn't Steve Ritchie's choice because he is the king of flow. And I have to believe the king of flow wants his games to flow. And obviously without that loop shot there, it doesn't flow. Now, a few videos back, I did talk about how disappointed I was with that. I did say, hey, it feels like one of the worst loop shots possible. And I'm going to stick with that because obviously that's not his intended design. This is just an extreme result of something that gets stripped down because of bomb. And I haven't talked to one person. I'm talking over 50 people, individual people I've talked to about this game, and not one has been happy or excited about that shot on the pro. Unfortunately, it is what it is. And that just kind of segues us into our general thoughts on what Led Zeppelin is. And it's clear that they had an incredibly difficult time acquiring the full assets to this pen. And we will never know truly how difficult or how expensive this really was unless Stern decides for themselves to actually reveal that to the general public, which I don't see them actually doing. But when we look at the artwork, we look at kind of the redundancies that are happening across the board. And I was talking to somebody about that just this morning. There's a lot of redundancies on these pins, and that usually is an indicator that certain assets had, you know, it's all they could get. It's all they could get. Now, we can be in two camps about this. We can either be in the camp that we're, you know, super bummed about it. We wanted to see just a full-on, just experience of a pen. And that's understandable. On the other side we can be is to be thankful that at least we do have a Led Zeppelin pen and to be thankful that we're getting the best possible pen that Stern could churn out with it. Does that make sense? Now, I'm not making any apologies for it because it is what it is, guys. People have to work within their bombs, and these are just the decisions that were made in order to make this pen come to life. I fully do believe just based on the way that Stern does their business, the way that they need to keep the line moving, the way that they need to keep everybody employed, the way that they just operate their entire business, I don't know of any other way that this pen could have came out without seriously rocking the boat. And obviously, with all these LEs selling out, with all the LEs pretty much selling out, I think they are. Like, what reason does Stern really have to go out and go that extra mile and get the assets that they need to get for the money that they need to get? Because it would totally destroy how they're doing their pro. It would up the overall prices across the board, probably at not even a marginal rate, probably a rate that would hurt our wallets is what I'm saying. It would really hurt. And so it's hard to justify when I take a step back and I think about it from a business perspective. And again, I know people will be crucifying me for this, but I have to think in the way that Stern is thinking about this, that if they're taking a step back, okay, or if I'm taking a step back and I'm thinking of the way that Stern is thinking about this, they're selling out L.E.s. They know that they're going to sell a ton of these pens. it'll probably be a higher seller than what any other pen out there that's not made by stern and that does include guns and roses guys i mean that's just how much the stern's worldwide reach that's how big it is and if they're still selling out of le's i don't know what will change in the future and i don't know if anything needs to change from a business perspective i don't know if it needs to now of course the pinball fan in me if wants everything to be loaded i would love or $20,000 worth of stuff to be loaded into a $6,000 or $7,000 pen, that would be ideal. Obviously, it would be ideal. But we are dealing with a hand that we are dealt with. Now, that pushes me forward to my next thought. I wonder how difficult it really was to get a hold of all the songs that they got a hold of There been a lot of complaints about there not being enough music in a music pen I know it sounds crazy doesn it? But they do only have 10 songs. And I say only 10 songs because realistically, it is still probably 50 minutes to an hour worth of music, just judging by the songs they have on there. So my question is really, is were those 10 songs, were these the exact songs that they wanted? Like, I'm curious to have that answer come out later today if these were the exact songs they wanted. Is there any other songs that they tried to go for that they couldn't get? Was the vision for this pin from the outset just based off these 10 songs? I think that's a pretty good question to ask, and I hope somebody does because I'm very curious about that answer. And now, obviously, the entire pinball community, or at least nearly the entire pinball community, has come together as one to give the biggest thumbs down to modern artwork on a pinball machine that I have seen. And it's just, it's an interesting subject when we're talking about art on a pinball machine. And the reason why, for me, this is really crazy is because these pens right now, right, the cabinets that they have on Led Zeppelin, they all represent, except for the LE, which that, you know, the naked guy, basically, with the wings, represents their, I guess, their logo or one of the characters of their record company. But the other two pens come with artwork from their albums. And these are iconic albums. from an iconic band. And thus, we're kind of stuck in this weird place to where everybody demands theme integration as much as possible all around. And we're basically getting as high-end theme integration that you could possibly get when you're looking at the whole pinball machine looking like a giant album cover. Now, obviously, people are not responding to that well. So I guess in the future, that's kind of one of those things where lesson learned. Maybe that's not needed in the future after seeing the general response of this. And thus, we keep pushing ahead, and we keep seeing these different faults that are in the pen overall. And I've talked about it with the Pro, and I've talked about it with everything else. But I think moving forward, it's good to start trying to find the positives in this. And that's what I think is really good for. We all have our initial impressions of everything. And I certainly have had my initial impressions of this pin. I certainly have had my critiques of this pin. But the gameplay reveal will reveal all. And that's the greatest thing about it. It really will. Now, obviously, I don't want to rehash too much in this video over all the details surrounding the reveal. What I have found out, and this is via the comments on one of my YouTube videos, is that apparently they are streaming the LE tomorrow. Now, I don't have that confirmed, so I'll just say unconfirmed until I actually see it myself of somebody from Stern saying that, then I would believe it. But for now, take it with a grain of salt, but I'm sure somebody else could probably confirm this, but that's my understanding that the LE is what they will be showing. Now, if that's the case, I think that's an excellent idea just because it gives everyone a chance to see the top of the line offering that Stern has. We will get to see it in all of its glory and that's what i want to see personally i want to see their best offering that they have of this game put forward for the entire world and we get to see what it is all about and we get to have all of our questions answered which is what i'm about to go over right now is questions after i take a drink from my uh boba fett mug here okay that tastes good it's just lemon green tea guys i can't if if it had anything in there if it was spiked at all somebody asked me that like what are you ever drinking in there if that actually had alcohol you guys don't understand i'm native american we would not get through this podcast i my head would be down on my desk that's that's just how it'd be anyhow all right So questions that we want answered and that I hope will be answered and that I think will be answered with this next gameplay reveal coming up later tonight.

22:43

That'll be telling. To me, that's like the star part of your entire game right there because it comes up through the play field. It should be a literal event. And I really want to see once that multiball starts or once you have the opportunity for a hurry up that all of a sudden the lights are just doing all kinds of crazy stuff. That's really what I want to see. And that brings us to our next thing. How will the lighting actually be? Now, what Stern is doing right now, they're rolling out, on the LE at least, they're rolling out over 160 plus RGB lights. Now, obviously that pales in comparison to what GNR is, but for Stern, that's a massive step up. And as far as I'm aware, I think that's their most today. If anybody else knows of any other pinball machine they put out that has more, please post it down below because I am not aware. I think that is far and away the most that there is. And a lot of that is because of their new lighting system that's on the side. And I want to know, what will that new lighting system look like? How well will it be synchronized to the overall game? And I think that right there will really be the tipping point for a lot of people in terms of them wondering, am I going to get the Pro or am I going to get the Premium? I think it'll come down to the lighting system, to be honest with you guys, because that combined with the middle mech, those two things, I think that's actually far more important for somebody to actually decide to bump up from a $6,000 pro up to, what is it, $1,500 extra for the premium somewhere? right well no it's oh gosh it's higher than that it's like um 1800 oh 78.99 i think now yeah so it's gonna come down to lights and mech i think to make that decision because i certainly am not going to shell out an extra 1800 to have my left loop ramp i'm just not not going to do that why do i keep calling it left loop ramp calling the wrong thing the right upper flipper loop it goes left whatever guy you guys know exactly what i'm talking about at this point anyhow out. I really want to see how that lighting system works. I want to see it. And I have different ideas in my head for how this is going to play out. I think it's going to be actually more integrated than even what Penn Stadiums are. And a large part of that is simply because of where it's located on the machine. You know, with it at the top side of the side blades, I think there's a lot that you could do with it and they've said as much on their matrix that this is going to be fully integrated and the ability to synchronize it with what's happening on the play field so i'm really hoping that we get to see some cool things going with the lights like a back and forth action or a fade out action or a flashing action i mean there's so many different things that they could do with it that i'm really hoping that this works in and the light show also could really pop a ton with how they're going to do the rules. Which brings me to my next part, music and rules integration. I want to see these two things really go together really well. Obviously, we know what songs are involved. I assume it's going to sound good on stream. I'm curious to see what pinball is like hearing that music being played and how that really corresponds with the flow of the game in terms of multi-ball or single ball play. But I'm very curious to see what this rule set is. Now, the things that Tim Sexton has talked about publicly on his rule set, it feels like, and it is, that this is a rule set that has never been done before. It is extremely innovative. And this is the first time in a long time that I am more curious than ever about how a rule set is. I am so hyper aware of what this is just the idea of what I think it's going to be and what I've heard that I almost feel like I kind of have a grasp on it but then at the same time I feel like I don't and I've never been in that spot before I pride myself on understanding rules and getting the hang of a game very quick and with this game I just I'm not quite sure how that rule set's going to work yet but I'm excited at the idea of what Tim Sexton has been talking about now as far as i understand with this rule set the shots are going to change you know according to what part of the song you're on and so they're going to divide the song up into segments like chorus bridge vocals i think it was and i think solo also and that just makes my mind just go every which direction thinking of the possibilities that they could do with not only the rule set guys but going back to the lights with the lighting in that as well, I mean, just think about it. Once that song begins to change to the next sequence, right, and the scoring changes, and where your shots go, where those change, I wonder if there's going to be some type of countdown with the lights that indicates, hey, this change is coming up. We're about to shift this direction. And you just kind of feel that tempo. You know, the tempo changes not only with the music, with the sound, but with the lights at the same time, I think it could really make for some cool shows. And that's what I'm really looking forward to. I'm on the lookout for that and really paying attention because I think that on its own, the ability to mesh that all together and to bring all that together and you put a heavy emphasis on different parts of the song, I think it just makes a great opportunity, you know, to make these changes really noticeable and make sure that everything is just working like in full harmony. I think you could really create some excellent moments in a pen that we haven't seen before out of a Stern pen. You know, regardless of what we feel about the art, play field design, or whatever it could be, I really think that that's the thing that can make this all come together, and I'm hoping that they deliver in spades come later tonight. Now, other than that, I need to wrap it up right there, guys. We're approaching 30 minutes. I appreciate you guys watching. Thank you guys so much. Leave a like, comment down below if you're listening to this on your phone. Hey, I appreciate you taking time out of your day. And again, guys, have fun watching it tonight. Congrats to Stern for releasing a pin. I wish them all the best. I hope it goes over well. I hope it plays excellent. And I hope the next time that I do a podcast about this, which obviously will be Monday, I hope that it is all great news. And I hope we're all blown away by what we see. Other than that, that's all I got, guys. You guys have a great weekend. enjoy the Mandalorian, enjoy seeing your new pin or the newest pin out and have a great Friday