The ugliest chicken crosted. We've got two empty spots in the house. My bad. Fresh Pinball. Kyle's Basement Edition. Yay! Welcome everyone to Season 5, Episode 6 of the Fresh Pinball Podcast. As noted earlier here in the intro, we are in Kyle's amazing basement arcade. We are joined by an actual dog tonight, Honey Girl. Honey Girl, I'm going to start with you. How are we doing? You have nine pimples. Good. I just had some treats. Took a shit. Bacon! All right. I'm going to go around the table here and introduce everyone before we get into the goodness the meat of this episode if you will to my left the rambling man himself corbin angeli corbin how's it going guys um the first pinball brothers game was it alien correct yeah that's what threw me off because it was highway i couldn't remember because i was like i know they did that one with the nice art queen i knew there was something for it so alien alien queen abba alien again i think that one ben was the only abba i ever played same i played it when it was at Expo the year it came out? No. That was the second year we went together. I was barely there. I don't think I played it. You were. You were like the president. You came in on a helicopter. You got dropped in. It was a galactic tank. Right. Secret Service whisked you around so you could meet all the VIPs. You went and won. Shake a hand. Kissing babies. Did some treadmill challenging and then you were gone. Like a warm summer breeze. That's all it was. And across the table from me, Mr. Zach Angeli. How we doing, buddy? I'm feeling fantastic. It's pretty cold outside. Hopefully snow some more. Maybe get some snowboarding in here soon. Yeah. Yeah. Be cool. I hadn't left the house in like two days because it was Martin Luther King Day on Monday, so no school. And then school was canceled today because it was so cold. So I'm like, I'm keeping my happy ass in the house. And then it was like, all right, time to go to Kyle's. I'm like, holy crap. It's like. I've spent a lot of time out in the house. I've been outside, so. Yeah. It was 5 this morning. I think 14 when I came home, so. Pretty, uh, pretty brisk. Very cold. Well, he doesn't give a fuck what the temperature is. Oh, I bet he's hanging right now. He's more excited the colder it is. I'm sure. Did you tell him that some lady on Instagram says it's cold and that he should come inside? He said, fuck you, Kim. I'm staying out here. I'm staying out here, Jessica. I told Jessica to shut the fuck up. And to my right, on the board, Mr. Kyle. How we doing, buddy? I am fucking wonderful. I'm glad you're not too fucked up. I'm not too fucked up. I'm glad to hear it. All right, so... Just here to get fucked up. Right. Leading into this episode, Corbin sent out the text and said, hey, what should we talk about? And... I feel like he just had some time to think about it. Yeah, you know, a little time to marinate, a little time to do a little research. That way we can give you guys, you know, not just our hot take right off the cuff, but some actual information. No, that's exactly what I do. I do research. That's not what I do sometimes, so... me and Zach are just willing participants just rolling with it in Jeff's game and I've been feeling for a while just give him a few beers he'll sit over there and say shit especially now that there's some Gottlieb System 3's in the mix now would be a good time to I don't want to say do a deep dive but go through them, talk about them talk about perspectives, talk about parts talk about fun factor numbers, all of those things so for anyone who I just want to talk about, I think one thing I think we should mention too, just planning this as we're doing it. Like, what other games are coming out at the same time as these games are coming out? Just as a comparison. Paint the picture for, like, the year and, like, who was coming out with what? Just to think about, like, if you're an operator or if you're, I mean, were there even, like, quote unquote collectors at the time? Like, there was operators who just had too many games and kept them and thought they were cool. But, like, other than that, I mean, I'm sure Rob Burke was probably buying shit back then. I mean, it's not like it is now. 1% of games that were being sold were into homes. The few EMs were like, oh, this was at the bar I drank out for the past 30 years, and they finally got rid of it. My dad talks about all the games they sold out of the garage. They ran them on the route, and then they would sell them out of the garage into people's basements and stuff. He talks about people like my grandpa, his dad, sending him with people like, so-and-so is going to take you down to the shop. They're going to buy a game. You're going to go deliver it to their house, and they're going to bring you back. And that was like part of the deal was like you get to take my son. He'll go set it up at your house. Nice. Bring him back with some money when you're done. That's great. But that is the story that I've heard many times as I was buying arcade games or pinball machines, and it would be I got it when it was basically brand new. So it was, like you said, it was routed for a year, maybe two years. Okay, this is earned back. Something else has come out. It's doubled up. Something else has come out. Okay, it's time to move it on, and that's when people were getting them. Like, I don't think there were many people who had relationships with distributors that they were just buying them brand new in the box. I don't think that was. Or their house, no. Right, exactly. But, no, that was definitely something I wanted to talk about on this of, like, hey, this game, Title Fight, came out in 1990, and these were the Bally Williams games that came out in 1990. Data East was coming out with this. Exactly. I think that's an important comparative aspect of it all. So kind of the reason if you have any unfortunates. I mean, yeah, and I think that's why when we had the text chain email conversation with Jon Norris, he kept talking about how many of these games went overseas. Like if they made 1,900 of something, then 1,500 to 1,600 of them likely went overseas. We're going overseas. Right. Is he out of his – is he allowed to talk to other people yet, or is he still in that relationship where he's not allowed to talk to people? So I was told after our last episode with our email exchange with him that he was on the precipice of doing his first podcast with another podcaster. And then after that, we would be open to do whatever. So he might be available soon. That still hasn't happened. Did you check the dating app? Is he on your app? Is he on the dating app? Oh, he is. He's a popular guy. We matched. Is he on the dating app? I mean, of course. I also like to stand outside and smoke cigarettes. So we started to come down the rabbit hole of Gottlieb System 3 from Don of Don's Pinball Podcast. He traded in his Wipeout. Yeah. So let's just start there since that's kind of the entry point for you. When was Wipeout, 95? No, it's not that late. Like three. It's early, 93 or two. Wipeout is 1993, 2,150 produced. See, I would be curious to see how many of those. I know it probably isn't out you have to talk to John North or someone like that who would give you an idea of how many stayed in the US but that's not a game so we got that one I've seen maybe one other one I hate to say it but they were kind of throw away I would assume at that point what was the price point of a Gottlieb back then versus that's awesome should we send a pinball down the mountain on skis So I'm showing them the flyer of Gottlieb Wipeout where it's a pinball with the head up, on legs, on skis. Very appropriate. That's exactly how we get games down here. Honestly, I've done a few deliveries recently. Today was one where I was thinking, I wish I had a sled I could put these pinballs on and just slide them on around. Nice. Gottlieb presents Wipeout. Race the slalom, ride the chairlift, capture the thrills, chills, and spills of skiing in pinball. Oh, it's not even snowboarding? Come on, what are we doing? They talk about snowboarding. The call-outs on it, too, are hilarious. There's a German accent one where it's just like, Do we need to get your mother to hold your hand? I feel like this is one that would have been popular overseas, though, because skiing is big in Europe, I mean, all over the place. I think maybe it was Jared said that he thought they're all out in Tahoe. I mean, like in resort towns. Sure. There was one when I was first getting into... Have you played them other places much? That's what I was just going to say. When I first got into location pinball, they had one up at the bowling alley in Middleburg. There was one there. Southland? Southland. Yeah. Next level out in Oregon had one. Those are the only two I can think of ever running into. Yeah. But that's kind of to Kyle's point where I feel like a lot of these in the minds of operators were throwaway games of like, okay, they've double tripled their money. It's taking up room in the warehouse. All right, let's pull some parts that we might need for some that are still hanging on or earning, and let's throw away what the remainder of it is. So let me ask you this, Corbin. You started going through that wipeout because A, it was in. B, it was going to be in the Ohio IFPA state championships. So what were your takeaways from it? Build quality, repairability. Yeah, I think for starters, I'm just looking up what else was made in 1993 as a comparison. Some bangers, I'm sure. Next gen. Same year, Whitewater, Bram Sturm, Dracula, Indiana Jones, next gen. Oh, my God. Some solid hitters right there. You know what we should do? So what did Bally's come out with at the same year? We should do an unlicensed skiing thing. That'll really knock them down. But was it a response to whitewater? I mean, was it like you're in the whitewater rafting? We're in the snowboarding skiing realm. But back to your question. What were my takeaways? It reminds me of all the Gottliebs. Whenever I work on Gottliebs, EMs, there are so many EM elements that are still tied into them. There's still banks of relays. Not obviously as extensive as an EM, but I think there's five or six. Four or five in there, five or six across the back. Yeah. So there's still elements that are very EM-esque, I guess you could say, or remind me of EMs. Working on it-wise, I mean, it wasn't bad, I guess. It was all pretty straightforward. That Cactus Jack's pretty straightforward. That's what I was going to ask. You also have that Cactus Jack in your garage. You have that stripped all the way down right now. That's bare play field right now, yeah. If anybody has a ramp, any nice ramps of Cactus Jack. We need Cactus Jack ramps. So that's our biggest challenge to get. That's what we're currently, we're about to try to scan it, 3D scan them and print them. Okay. But overall, I mean, it wasn't bad. They used, it was pretty, it seemed pretty user-friendly as far as I could tell. It feels like you're tearing down an EM. That's what it feels like. I haven't messed with any of the boards or I didn't do any, I didn't get all that. Luckily, it was pretty solid, so I didn't do anything with that. Somebody's installed a... I think System 3s usually are a pretty solid board set, too. Yeah. Raven wasn't System 3, is it? No, Raven is not. Because, Kyle, you had a... It's ADB. I also need a door, a coin door for that wipeout, if anyone has one. Just put it out there. So, Kyle, you had a Freddy whenever I first met you, which is also a System 3. Where is that? Is that the same year? So that's 94. So what were your takeaways? I know you did quite a bit of stuff to Freddy. I was kind of learning at the time, anyways, when I was working on that. But I thought it was pretty straightforward, and everything is freaking labeled under the play field. Oh, yeah. Which is very cool. Same with Wipeout. Even, like, the paths of the wires, the colors. So, like, it's Marc Silk screened onto the underside of the play field. It's like, this is Switch 26, and then it tells you exactly the whole wiring schematic essentially is underneath there. One of my Cyclones has that, too. Really? But not most of the other Williams-Bellywoods. Some of the System 11s, like Taxi, will have the rubber size on top. Yeah, which is nice. I love that. Hmm. So let's start here at the beginning. So the first System 3 for Gottlieb was actually a cocktail. It's Corbin's Love, the Caribbean Antonio Cruz. Dude, that was a cool game. I would say I love, but I would definitely pick up one if we find one while we're in Florida. 377 produced. 1989. Yep. Designed by John Trudeau. Earthshaker, Black Knight 2000 I think it played Police Force Bad Cats I just saw a Bad Cat somewhere that went for a stupid low price I was so mad yeah because Bad Cats is one that bears a little nuts it's way too expensive it's because a lot of pinball collectors also have cats is that why? that is exactly why interesting I bet it's easier to convince your wife or girlfriend on a theme. Like, look, it's cats. Oh, look how cute they are or whatever. So Bally had nothing. I do have a cat too. I'm not talking shit. Oh, why are the party monsters mousing around? Yeah, so those are actually Bally, that's pretty comparable to the Gottlieb stuff in that era. Because you're looking at an 89 for Gottlieb was this Caribbean Antonio Cruz on System 3 and then lights, camera action. Oh, we only made 377 of those? That's what I'm trying to say here. The Caribbean crew? Yeah. They had to make a lot of those. I thought they made a lot of those. Rotation 8 had to be like 100. Oh, 100. Yeah. 50. We need to get Don Johnson and sit down and talk to him or Mike Pacek or someone because they both have in-depth, deep knowledge of what was going on with that game and how it wasn't even supposed to go out and just all kinds of craziness. We need to do an episode that's just rotation eight and get all the facts, all the everything, all the interviews. But this Caribbean Antonio Cruz, has everyone around the table here played this? I have. Okay. No. No, Zach has not. So Corbin and I both played it at Pinsonati. I know I've played it other places, too, because it's actually one of the few cocktail pinball machines where I sit down. I'm like, this is a legit good fun game. Actually, you can get multiball on it and stuff. Isn't there other ones that are... Wasn't there another one? Another what? That was like the same exact... Not the same exact thing? I don't know. Not System 3 and not Gottlieb that I'm seeing. Not System 3, huh? Yeah. So what else came out in that year you say? So 89 was also Lights, Camera, Action, which I've played. So just two games. Two games on System 3 that I'm seeing. That must have been right in the switchover. Yeah because then I go to 90 And you have Silver Slugger Vegas, Deadly Weapon Title Fight All in 90 as well as a couple Redemption games Nudget and Bellringer So it looks like they then kind of get into that 3-4 game cadence Because you get to 91 and you've got Car Hop Hoops, Cactus Jacks Class of 1812 And Surf and Safari all in the same year So 91 like Addams Family Had been coming out What else Twilight was 92 wasn't it Whirlwind was 90 90 along with Funhouse was 90 also right I was I was thinking of Night Moves It's an 80 It's an 80B but it also came out In 89 November of 89 It was just on a different board set Night Moves Also John Trudeau 450 produced What was the average What do those look like Yeah so lights camera action 1708 silver slugger 2100 Vegas 1500 I don't know about a Vegas So Vegas I've only ever seen once And only ever played once And that was at the pinball hall of fame In Las Vegas And I sought that out while I was there Because I'm like I've never seen this And it was on It was on and working The stars aligned. It was. It was pretty special. But Silver Slugger, I've actually put a decent amount of games on. It's a fun one. It kind of reminds me a little bit of the game Street. Oh, Street Level. Yep, Street Level. That's fun. It's a fun one. One of our customers is actually out in Sparks. Nevada has one. I'm like, dude, whenever you're ready to get off of this game, let me know. Trade it in, do whatever. I even remember like six, seven years ago looking at games online, and those are always reasonable. Gottliebs. Yeah. Especially those, because there was like a couple street-level ones. So Vegas is straight up what you would think it should, you know, poker chips and slot machine and show girls and all of that stuff. I mean, it's very much like Riverboat Gambler or any of that, you know, other stuff that you think of when you think of those games. Nothing to get super excited about. Would Las Vegas have to be licensed? I mean, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. You wouldn't think that a city name, like if I wanted to create a game that was called Nashville, that there's some sort of trademark to the name Nashville. Right. I mean, I assume for like the art, it is the generic art. Yeah. So whenever they did like NFL and they were the different teams, they had to get each of the teams to sign off that the Browns or the. So anything was sports wise. There are two different couple different things that you get. If you get any of the Players Association, that gets you all of the players. If you get the NFL, then that gets you all of the teams. Two different packages. So if the NFL says yes, that's everybody. All the teams, correct. Makes sense. But you only get the players if you get the NFL Players Association, so that would be a two-license thing. And it's the same for baseball and basketball and everything else. Well, because there's a lot of the licenses like in the 90s video games where it would be like Frank Thomas or whatever, but he doesn't play for the White Sox and there's nobody else. Correct. Or whatever it would be. Even in the original. You probably have a better reference. Well, NBA Jam. Michael Jordan's not in NBA Jam because Michael Jordan was like, oh, I'm too good for all of this. Like, I'm not part of the Players Association. I have my own thing. But, yeah, there are all kinds of examples of that. Not the Michael Jordan Association. Well, I mean, because there were games. Or like Shaq's Athlete's Foot commercial. And he's just got some random. My feet aren't burning no more. Shaq is diversified. Shaq is not messing around. No, he is not. He got the Carvana ads and the General and Papa John He has all sorts of businesses He does not mess around Oh we should do a quick shout to our sponsors the Cooks and Lazars Thank you for the pizza again Talking about Shaq yeah For the pizza. Yeah, yeah. Appreciate it. So then continuing in 1990, we have Gottlieb Deadly Weapon, which was on showcase down at Cincinnati. It was the one that had the new old stock play field with the crazy light over top of it. Yes. Yeah. I don't think he sold that for some reason. 803 produced man that is It's a low number with the new old stock If you're looking for one there's one for sale down in the Pinsonasty area What did he want like 35 3800 And I felt bad because whenever Whoever was putting in the new old stock Playfield they put a nice big freaking Gouge in it right down by one of the slings And it's a nightmare Not ideal So then in 1990 we also have title fight Sousa just did one of those right He did. I've never played one. Is this animated back glass? I'm pretty sure this is animated back glass. A Thousand Produced. Yeah. It's got like the Rock'em Sock'em Robot looking guys on the back glass. I don't know if I've played one or not. I definitely have not played one of those. I'm pretty sure I saw this one. I've seen this a couple places, but I'm pretty sure I saw it the one time that I went out to Allentown. It is weird too because they never changed their board set between Alpha Numeric and DMD. That's cool. I like the mini playfield ring up top. That'd be a cool one to get with like a WWE or whatever and a World Rumble. All of WrestleMania or whatever. Just felt very much like a Rocky vibe. I remember whenever I saw it, I was like, oh. And a tag team. And a tag team. Yes. So 1991. God, Zeus is going to kill us for this episode. He's like, you guys don't know shit about these things. Call in then. Call us right now. You got something to say, Susan? Give us a call. 1-800-MAD-PINBALL. Please don't call. Actually, no. Call it. See what happens. So 1991 started off with a real banger here. Car Hop with 1,060 produced. Let me see that one. Designed by Jon Norris. Here's the flyer. I might have played one of those. It feels like a creature Creature came out right in that same time frame Yeah So this one The first time I played it Was to the people who got the Frankenstein So it kind of left a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth I think Fuck em Fuck em Frankie should have stayed home Probably Cappy But after Car Hop is a good one Tournament players love it I love it It's a fun one Gottlieb Hoops So this is a special memory for me. I was out on the West Coast, and I was looking up, oh, where do I need to go? What are the cool pinball places when you're in San Francisco? And it was like, oh, the one place you have to go, Free Gold Watch. Right. And I go in, and they had an original Bally Cactus Canyon, which this was before Chicago Gaming was making the remakes. So that was special to see. They had one of the original big Lebowskis, and this was before they were really getting imported. They had this Gottlieb Hoops. They just had all kinds of just stuff that you don't see anywhere. And it was literally you're just, if you've ever seen the opening of Full House or anything in San Francisco, where it's like the super steep street with all the crazy row houses, it's literally just this tiny little shop that goes way back, and it's just lined with pinball machines. That's cool. It was a super awesome place. Super special. But then more recently when I was in Nashville at Game Galaxy, they had a Gottlieb Hoops. What's that new one? Hoops Fever? Oh, yeah. The one that's like the same people who make the car drifting or whatever. We saw that at Expo this year, yeah. I think I saw Troy was just selling both of those, so he must have picked them up from whomever. Actually, we saw him rolling them over into his booth at the end of the one night. That makes sense. And then the third game of 1991 with 1,900 produced, Gottlieb Cactus Jacks. It's a real winner right there. Designed by Jon Norris. What do we have here? In three weeks. I have an extra set of displays for those if anyone needs one. Cactus Jacks, yeehaw. Let's party. Sizzling country rock music. Shoot lock for two ball multiball. Shoot banjo bonus when lit. Add fruit multiplier by completing drop targets. Go for the big, thorny surprise. I love doing... I love getting the fruit. Getting fruity. Getting fruity. Great speech, sounds, art, and what a light show. Let's have a boot-stomping good time. So I wonder what the inspiration in popular culture at the time could have been that inspired this game. Because this just can't be like a bad acid trip or something. It could be still. Who designed it, John? Yeah. I don't know. Was like Urban Cowboy a big movie at the time or something? Texas Ranger. Hee Haw? I don't know. This is just bizarre to me. But, Zach, you've pulled the top side off of this game. Yep. It's got some cool little, like the dancing cacti in the background. Those are super cool. I love how they're just like the, I don't know, I remember when I was a kid, the pins you'd wear on you, like a pair of sunglasses. That's what they were just super glued on to the cactuses. Real simple, but real neat. I liked how each cactus can be moved individually, too. I was surprised by that. I was expecting there to be one coil that was just kind of moving everything for each one to have its own coil. Own individual coil. It was very surprising. We went on adding some cool LEDs back there, so when they start dancing all crazy, a cool light goes off. Whatever the weird flashers are back there. Yeah, whatever those are. Have you already been in contact with the pin stadiums guy? He can make you some custom pin stadiums. We're running a disco ball back there. Disco ball, for sure. It'll be a real party. A real hootin', scootin' good time at the Cactus Jacks. I know this one that is near and dear to Kyle's heart. Also in 1991, Class of 1812. Oh, I like that game. That has some cool mechs on it. It's one of those ones that's like super campy. Because it has what the weird like it has a hand and the beating hard and all that. It's got all kinds of weird shit in it. Is it also Jon Norris? That's another one I haven't played a whole lot. I've only seen it like twice. BFW has one. I was about to say I think I played one at BFW. I play it every time we go out. That is Joe Kamenkow and Ray Tanzer. Really? On game design on that one. 1,670 produced. So VFW definitely then would have been the first place I ran into it. There was another place down in a suburb of Orlando. It was like District Eat and Play in Oviedo. And they had like at that time every Jersey Jack ever made. And then they had this weird row of Gottliebs. But it was like a family fun center to where there were like there was a little bowling alley. and there was a paintball course and all of this weird shit. Interesting choice. And then you have Class of 1812 just kind of hanging out. Just being creepy as fuck. Set up on card pulses. I do have a translator thing that you gave me, but it's behind Pinbot or something. So continuing in the alphanumeric age of System 3 here. This is also what year? 1991. So there's still online and we're still doing it I was just thinking, yeah So Surf and Safari I've actually played that one a number of times now And it's, all of these games I don't want to repeat They're just fun, like they're quirky and they're fun Like the music kind of have these little earworms Do we think they were more or less expensive than Bally Williams at the time? Oh, way less I don't want to say half But I would have to think like substantially less So I just am curious in why my grandfather or dad, why at the time they didn't ever buy any Gottliebs. They were cheaper. My grandpa would have been definitely drunk. Oh, the cheapness. And the 80s ones weren't really known for liability either. That's true. So they could still have been riding off of that. Just what would speak to them? Lights, camera, action. Could you imagine looking at that flyer? It's like eight foot tall, too. Right. Looking at that flyer next to anything else that's being put out and go, okay, I'm going to save 30% on this. They come out with Adam's family and blows up the world. And then everything else is kind of... I mean, not everybody's blessed with high ceilings in their basement, so... Something people should think about when you buy houses. Or you build one. Or you build one. Yeah. Custom ceilings. Extra height. Yeah. Elevators. So then the last... No 90-degree turns in your stairs. Oh, my God. So our buddy Ben brought his South Park over for me to go through. And he literally said to me, he's like, so where are those guys complaining about putting a game down here? I'm like yeah it's not hard yeah going in is easy especially if you have it folded up like yeah and it's also not bad whenever it's just one not whenever it's like hey we're going to pin brew let's load up the entire basement have a great time so the final alphanumeric in the Gottlieb system 3 is 1992 my white whale my white rhino if you will I know, yes. Operation Thunder. Still have only ever seen this game one time. What's the difference? Between Raven and Operation Thunder, everything. Everything and nothing. Jon Norris again. Operation Thunder is like Raven's husband. So this is game design by Ray Tanzer, software by Bob Wilson and Jon Norris. Is Ray Tanzer Ray Day's dad? Ooh, no, definitely not. Are you sure? 1,000%. But their names are Ray. I can't believe it. so this was one that whenever I was in Oregon and I sought it out at next level because I knew that they had it I knew I'd not run into it anywhere else and the rule set on this is what I found really really cool it wasn't a normal three ball game it was fuel based so your jet has this much fuel and as you accomplish missions I don't know, I liked it so you build more fuel as you go makes sense. Yeah, you take down this and that adds to that. I enjoyed it a lot. Again, it says 2,513 produced, which I'd have to think almost all of those went overseas because you're obsessed with finding them and you can't. Exactly. I don't know. What does it say on here? The Pinside map should say what do we have? Well, fire the tugboat up and go over there. 67 Pinsiders have this game in their collection. nine public locations. That's like nothing. That's basically nothing. Remember we put out the air board and there was like three. So I'm sure whenever, like if I actually drilled down to find one of these nine locations. No, it doesn't. This game was one of the ones where it was one I'd not seen, I sought after and it was a fun game. And then you played it and you're like, no wonder nobody wants this. I would have played it Three or four times if I weren't at a place where there was no way I could play everything that I needed to play. Like, if I had just run into it somewhere where they had 15 games, I would have just played it over and over. But literally, there were so many there that I needed to get to. Unfortunately, couldn't give it the time and the love that it deserved. And their weird-ass fucking flippers. Let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah. Let's normalize putting banana flippers on everything. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like Orbiter? Yeah. Let's do it. Talk about the flippers, Kyle. You have a cool story about the Gottlieb System 3 flippers. Oh, it's our buddy. So obviously people know Jon Norris from Gottlieb. People know Ray Tanzer. People know Joe Kamikow. But also an engineer at Gottlieb by the name of Jonathan Borgeson? Borgenstein. Jay Borgenstein. Yeah, he designed the System 3 flippers. John Borg is who they're trying to say. That everybody hates. John Borg is a simple guy. I love John Borg. John Borg deserves all the love. He does. I think Fall of the Empire is starting to make a comeback. Oh, I like Fall of the Empire. People are actually catching on. It's a cool game. It's a cool game. It's a fun game. It's coded well. Star Wars, man. Star Wars, baby. It's been a solid seller. Isn't the code at like 1.7 or something? I think I saw that go out. It's almost at 2.0. It's almost double the good. Yeah, it's 1.7. We're closer to 2 than 1. Yeah. So after that, we get into some of the licensed era here of Gottlieb, and we move into DMD era. We kick off with Corbin's favorite. What year did they get bought out by Coke? Oh, that was in the 80s. Was that 80s? Yeah, that was back in the premiere days. So this is Super Mario Bros 4,200 Produced That's an enormous number Could you imagine if you had all those lined up How long that one game would take That was their Harry Potter of the day Yeah for real And they sold 3,500 And then Adam's family did 2,000 21,000 21,000 So they go on a little bit of a run here Because then they follow that up with They also did Redemption Size The smaller version of Super Mario Bros. Mushroom World But then also in 1992 They do Cuball Wizard 5,000 We had that one We did own one of those for a while Listeners You can fight me on this But I prefer Cuball Wizard over 8 Ball Deluxe Oh my god It has that big cube ball in the middle you keep hitting That's right it does What did he say? He says, like, Chack'em and Rack'em. Chack'em and Rack'em. Rack'em and Chack'em. There's some phrase he says every single time. Yeah. And it's annoying as hell. Did you love it? I'll tell you. We sold it. It's another game I sold back before I sold games. I went down to Antelor's store. For sale. Slap the for sale sign on that bitch and say, bye-bye now. I must be alone here on finding it superior to 8-Ball Deluxe. I don't really have, like, a love for 8-Ball Deluxe either, though. It doesn't do much for me. I'd need them side by side Agreed I don't have an opinion to compare them at this point I think it was a pretty nice run Also in 1993 Street Fighter 2 $5,520 So in 1993 they're like we're making our comeback For real There's a resurgence here Like things were looking up A little late guys I don't know So Street Fighter is the one that has the little lower play field With the car The dude bashes or whatever And now we're starting to slide back in, not too terribly, but there's a little bit of a dip here. So they go away from a license and they do the golf-themed teed-off, which is like a... No Good Gophers. No Good Gophers. What's the movie? Happy. No, no. Or Billy Madison. No. That's it. Caddy Shack. It's like a Caddy Shack rip-off. Caddy Shack? 3,500 produced, still a pretty strong number. I can hear Warren just yelling at Corbin right now. Get a shot! We already talked about Wipeout. That dips down even lower to $21.50. And then in 93, the re-theme of Legend of Zelda to Gladiators, $1,995. It's not a bad game. The game was actually fun. I was just going to say that. The game was fun. We played that at Pinsonati. That was a good time. But it's super unique. I think if you're someone who's a traditional pinball player and you play that game, It's like, oh man, this thing is weird Who's the designer on Gladiators? Let me pull this up here When did we switch to DMD? Are they at DMD yet? Yeah, these are all Oh, Wipeout Yeah, Wipeout Wipeout's the first DMD Is that weird, like, all red? Mario is the first DMD Okay, Mario In 93 Last game of 92 Mario, Cuball Wizard Yeah And we bottom out even more here With World Challenge Soccer 1994 What else came out in 1994 That was soccer Doggy soccer Is it dog soccer Doggy soccer His name is Striker Striker Extreme Goal This is Striker Extreme And the dog's name is Striker Coincidence I think not. But then we see a little bit of a bounce back with, again, it's a license here, Rescue 911, based on the popular television series of the time. Oh, I wonder if those are on YouTube. How many of those did they make? 4,000! 4,000! Rescue 911s, designed by our friend, Bill Parker. They love putting helicopters in their games. How many Gottlieb games have helicopters? All of them. They all do. You have to find it. It's like Where's Waldo. It's like finding Gary Stern on a play field. They're all there somewhere. Some more prominent than others. That's just not a fun game. I've played that one many times. I have no one for it. I don't think... That to me is like a... I don't know if I should put my price out there, but it's not much money. Like $200. Then we have Kyle's Freddy, A Nightmare on Elm Street, 1994. 2800 produced. I mean, it's cool that they got all... I didn't hate that game, but also it's not good. But at least they had call-outs and stuff that were all custom, which was cool. It's like the American pinball of the early 90s. Yeah. They did really nice call-outs and video work. Yeah, and their DMDs are red. It looks cool. I'm tempted to put a color display in that wipeout. Why not? But they don't, Pintoon DMD doesn't have the thing for it, so you have to go real fucking color DMD DMD and wipe out It tempting though So then into 1995 we stick with the licenses here and we have Shaq Attack, the previously mentioned Shaquille O'Neal, gets his own game. $3,380 produced. Who's going to call him? These numbers are good. What the hell? Yeah. These aren't terrible. That's more than some, like, some like Valley Williams are making some of their titles at the time they're just cooler games 1995 based on the movie Stargate 3600 Purdue I love Stargate so when I was getting into like wanting to spend some quote unquote serious money on a pinball machine when I was getting into this Stargate was high up on my list what are those sold for so let's see yeah I think Kyle's $35 pretty bad $35 $25 $2,500 was the number whenever. I mean, this was pre-COVID, so numbers were, I think it was like $2,500. You thought that's where you were peaking with your spending? Oh, man. That was like a couple arcade games at that time. So, yeah, that was a big deal. Yeah, no. Because I got Strange Science instead, and I paid like two for it. Strange Science. And now we fall off of the cliff here. We get to late 1995. We have three games that come out here. We've got Big Hurt Based on Frank Thomas of the Chicago White Sox $1,985 Waterworld $1,500 Strikes and Spares $750 It's the bowling one I want one too There's one in Columbus that went for cheap a couple years ago We played Campanelli's Big Lebowski It's very cool There's an arcade down in Parkersburg, West Virginia, and they only open whenever the guy wants to open. Literally, he'll post on the Facebook either the day before or early in the day, hey, we're open tonight. And he had Strikes and Spares in there, and it was the first time I ever played it. Because I think it has a bigger bowl in it. They're not the same size. So then last game of 1995 is Jackie Chan Racing, also known as Mario Andretti. It's actually not a bad game. 1,120 produced. It's uglier than fuck, but... We played one in a tournament section one time. Cincinnati. Yeah. Well, you're not supposed to be over here, sir. Then one game in 1996, which was Barbed Wire, 1,000 produced. And then the canceled Brooks and Dunn game, which has... I know it's been at the old Cleveland show. And I know I played it at Pin Brew, the prototype that Mike Pasek owns. Yeah. Brooks and Dunn. So, I think the point and the takeaway here for me more than anything is... I was saying your boss a barbed wire the other day because it was under two grand. Danger, danger, danger. Is the comparison that Corbin has been making about things more than anything. If I'm an operator and I'm out there deciding what I'm going to put on location, it's not even comparing apples to apples. Some of those titles, though, you would think at the time, Like if you said Shaq, like don't you think that would have been like – Well, it sold well too. He's pretty popular nowadays even. Yeah, like some kind of sports, any type of sports, sporting type place. But if I'm looking at this, and I'm sure your dad would probably have better memory of it, is this is kind of we're going into a valley at this time. That's true. Like 95 you're starting to go into like, you know, people aren't upright video games and pinball machines and things like that. And I'm sure at the time, too, like 95, so that would probably be like Space Jam. Yeah. So it would be like Space Jam versus Unlicensed. Just check, you know. Goddamn hiccups. We didn't even look at what Data East was doing at the time. Because they had Jurassic Park. They had Star Wars. I just think you start to look at not only the titles of what these other companies are putting out, but then also the quantities that they're producing were also very, very low as well. So I just would think generally not a lot of things were being bought just based on demand. I mean, with my limited experience of working on a System 3, I always thought they were decently built. Yeah, they seem to be. Like the cabinets were decent. Whatever. So what's the big thing I always hear people, the ground mod or whatever on the System Gottlieb? What are people talking about? I hear that on the 80s. It's more 80. More 80, not on this as much. Adding more grounds to things. Yeah, so 1996 we're looking at from Bally Williams, Junkyard, Scared Stiff, Tales of the Arabian Nights, Safecracker, Attack from Mars, Congo. It's like, shit, man, that line up right there, that one year is just amazing. That's pretty. I'll take those and not all of the System 3s instead. So then at that time, Junkyard is like 3,000, Scared Stiff is like 4,000, Tales is 3,000. So it's like those are not big production numbers for any of those games by comparison. So if Gottlieb's essentially doing half of what those ones were doing, I mean, that's just... It's not good for them. You're in a little bit of a valley for all of that, I think. And it's just I don't think a lot of games are just being bought in general. Corbin's got the Corbin's folks It's fucking cold outside guys It is definitely I think the car said like 3 on the way over Was it? Yeah It was like 14 on my way home So any final thoughts here on Gottlieb System 3 Kyle that you want to throw in Before we move on to some other notes and funness Please bring back silkscreening under the playfield. It's very helpful. I like it. I'm not against that. You get a notification like, oh, Switch 23 stuck or whatever. Where the fuck is Switch 23 at? You just go over and you lift it up and it says 23. It's great. Zach, any final thoughts on Gottlieb System 3? Yeah, just because it's some weird name and not a major theme, go give it a try. Play a couple games on it. Might fall in love. Yeah. Might have a really good time with it. I feel like they're starting to have their moment a little bit similar to a few years ago. Yeah, because we're starting to play them. That might be more where it's in the forefront of my mind, but also for a long time the Stern Electronics games were just completely forgotten about and shit on and everything else, and then all of a sudden some tournament players discovered them, and then they were getting more love. So I don't know. I feel like these are starting to come around a little bit to where people are trying some wacky and crazy things. I would like to talk about Gottlieb Reitz. Yeah, let's talk about it. Who owns them. Yes, I think we were talking about this pre-podcast a little bit, and I think it's something that... The one and only Steve Young. Yeah, so PB, was it PB Resource? All Resources PBR, yeah. Interesting. You could do that on purpose. He's in Poughkeepsie, New York. and he purchased the Gottlieb rights to produce everything. So if you get on IMPD, and you're trying to find manuals, you can't find any Gottlieb manuals online, and it's because Steve Young owns all the rights. If you want a Gottlieb manual, you have to purchase it from Steve Young. Steve Young's the pinball resource, pbresource.com. So, Corbin, you've been going through the process of getting some parts and things from him for Cactus Jack and we got a new translate. But he yeah, so I mean, anybody who's ordered from Steve Young knows that you A, need to know your account number. That's your best bet for success and you need to know the part numbers. But yeah, we've been going through them. Did you change your pants? What? Did you have those red pants on earlier? No, they're yellow. It's just light. Sorry, fucking. What was I talking about? Oh, Steve Young, yeah. Yeah, he owns all the rights to everything Gottlieb. It's just crazy he ships stuff with the bill and not like, oh, just pay me when you get it. I wonder how much it cost him to buy all the Gottlieb rights back when he got them. Had to be cheap, right? I think he got them, so it would have been mid-90s whenever they... Right, so I was finding some references. There was one game we didn't talk about. We didn't talk about any of the prototypes or things like that, but there was a cocktail one-on-one pinball versus basketball thing from 95 where there were five prototypes. That thing looked cool. Yeah, and when I was doing a little bit of a dive on that, there were people that were actually talking about the liquidation sale. If you have one of those for sale, who can we email, Zach? Freshpinball at gmail.com. I will have a nice room for you. Oh, nice. That's good news for Pinball at the Beach, for sure. You can have a bathroom. But the one-on-one is a head-to-head cocktail style game designed by Jon Norris. Five prototypes were built in early 96. The game followed Gottlieb's two previous cocktail style games. According to Norris, quote, the game was an arcade novelty game based on the existing arcade hoop style games where the object was to make as many baskets as possible during a timed game. It has an adjustable catch-up feature where if one player fell behind by 10 points, their baskets would score more points. obviously the game never went into production according to Norris two of the prototypes were dismantled at least one game was seen at Gottlieb's liquidation auction two games were confirmed to be in private collections so it looks like in 1996 was that liquidation auction that you were talking about that Steve Young must have purchased all the rights I wonder what he paid for them I bet he'd tell you I think he would we're not on that kind of terms why wouldn't he Might be a point of pride. How old is he? So according to pbresources.com, they've been selling parts since 1977. Now, I don't know if it's a family business or what, but that's what the website says. Website feels like it was created shortly after that. It definitely feels like very, like, AOL era for sure. There's no search bar, that's for sure. No, you better know your part numbers, buddy boy. I was ordering from him last time. I had all my part numbers but one, and it was the kicker for the slingshots. I said, I just need one for each side. He's like, well, do you know the part number? And I'm like, I don't. I couldn't find it on your website. It's nowhere else. And he's like, well, it's in your manual. Look in your manual. And I'm like, I'm ordering a manual from you, dude, so I don't yet have a manual. So if you want me to wait until I get the manual and then do it, he's like, all right, I'll figure it out. And you hear him. He goes through his whole system. I'm like, all right, this number means this. All right, it's this. I know what it is. I'll get it for you. Okay. Cheap though. Parts are cheap for them. That's what I was going to say next. So for everyone out there, as I've been posting pictures of Wipeout and Waterworld and Cactus Jackson and whatnot, one of the resounding and repeating things that people are saying is, well, that's all well and good, but you can't get parts for them. Yes, you can. pbresource.com. Steve Young's the guy. Parts are very affordable. The only thing we haven't been able to find, I think we said it earlier, are the ramps. No one's currently remaking them, and I've reached out to them. And we're currently at the point with, if we can't find the part, we're just going to make it. Yeah. If you can't make it, then you take it. Fake it till you make it. That too. But yeah, Gottlieb System 3, I guess my final takeaway with all of the games and... R.I.P., bro. My time with them and everything else is... I don't know. I've seen a million monster bashes. I've seen a million Attack from Mars. I've seen whatever of all these other games, and I feel like I can play them anywhere. So whenever I show up somewhere and there's a cue ball wizard or there's a water world or there's something, you know, Super Mario Bros. or whatever it happens to be, a teed off, that's probably where I'm going to walk up and put my quarters because it's going to be a different experience. I'm excited to get Cactus Jacks and Wipeout both out on location. And now, like, I know we feel this way. Sure. But I'm curious to see how they earn. See if they're just as excited as we are I think at the right location Quarter up What if you put them in You know somewhere random I don't know if they'll do good or not Other places I thought I could see maybe If it's in like a ski resort or something That'd be fun Since we have so many of those around here Should we call Snowtrails I think What's his name has stuff No not What's his name has it at Brandywine. Brandywine. What's Janos Kiss? Oh. Oh. Good old Gustopher. Mm-hmm. So an item kind of that's parallel to this would be recently Planetary Pinball on Pinside, and the social media has been selling off drawings, artwork, all of that stuff. So prior pre-computer times, all of these things would be drawn by hand and all of that fun stuff. Big old drafting board. Exactly. We actually got our rotation eight ones in, and they actually have the holes from where they were poking, like marking them on the play field, poked through the... Which is awesome. It's like a plastic almost. Yeah, I need to get in front of those to see them. They're currently being framed. Oh, even better. But Planetary is now working with Heritage Auctions, and they have... how many items was it? It was a crap ton. It's like three pages of items of things that they're selling. So the history behind that is also very interesting to me. So years ago, I found it as Pinball Vault Online, and it was literally the people who had – their story was that they had dug them out of the dumpsters of Valley Williams and different places as they were going out of business, and they were cleaning out the offices. Everything was just getting thrown in the dumpsters. They went through. They skanked it all. They've been slowly working through it, and they were selling it on this website called Pinball Vault. And I don't know if that's the same people as Planetary, if that's somebody else, if Planetary bought them out. I don't understand how that all went away because Pinball Vault went away, and then Planetary started popping up with all these, the same drawings, obviously. So I know some of these Planetary things, some of these that I'm seeing on this auction right now are ones that I've seen at Expo at the Planetary booth because, as listeners of this podcast may or may not know, I am a fan of Strange Science and they had concept art for the back glass the play field and what not there and they were asking what I felt was very high prices for it like $7.50 or something for all three pieces me and Corbin found it first we're like oh we should buy this for Jeff I'm like fuck that it's like $100 there's still like a month to go on this auction because it's a very 23 days left to go Really? But the strange science. Tens of people. Concept art and color design is at $10. Some of this stuff, the thing that bums me out a little bit is how much for some of these drawings is turned into a bit of a cash grab or a bidding. Yeah, just, I don't know. I mean, I'm glad that it's getting preserved and that it's going to somewhere. It's just the prices of them are something. I guess we'll see what it goes for. It's just interesting because some of the stuff I feel like belong with the designers or artists. Like there's a Rampage Arcade game control panel layout that I can literally see is like hand-drawn. So it's like you, I don't know. Some of the stuff I just feel like belongs in the right hands. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, just like I feel like the Midway Round or whatever they called it, Rotation 8, we found it, we got it, so it belongs with us. I just hope that other similar situations people find the drawings and they end up in the right homes. We'll see. I'm going to be very interested. Like, here's Blackwater 100 pinball machine playfield concept and production art. What's that at? It's 23 days out, so it's so hard to even. I saw a judge hat. I'm going to have to, like, sort through and follow a bunch of shit. Was that the one you sent us? Yeah. The link, yeah. You guys can all go through and check it out. Don't put it out for anyone else. I don't want anyone else to get it. Like I said, all types of people who are interested. It's just one of where it's going to go. Yeah, I feel like some of the more popular things like Banzai Run and the titles that people know will probably bring good money, but things like Motor Dome and Strange Science and whatnot. It has like ten different pieces in there. Yeah, exactly. I do like that they – so I remember back when it was Pinball Vault, they used to do the deal of whatever – if you bought like a Tales from Ravenite play field or you bought whatever play field, they guaranteed that when they found or if they found other versions of that drawing since you purchased the original you then had the right of first refusal on any further drawings based around that which obviously I don't know if that's the case or not but I thought that was cool so I like in these lots how they put like if you want Blackwater 100 stuff this is the package some of these ones are interesting too where it has, because it should stay together oh yeah, unproduced games so Total Recall which was the one, remember it was the side-by-side pinball, where it was like the two playfields linked together with one big head. Yeah, it looks really weird. So they have playfield art concept for that, upper playfield concept art, armed and dangerous. Again, another one that didn't end up getting... There's a bunch of weird ones too, isn't there? Like it ended up being this, but this was the concept. Right, so Bally Game Show, the original concept was called Reed. Yeah. Yeah. Which is some wild stuff. But some of these molds, the Roto molds, I'm interested to see what they go for. Like the Circus Ringmaster that comes up. The mold? It's like the negative? Yeah. They're selling that? Yeah, man. You can't, even if you get the Roto mold, you can't produce them because you don't have the rights to be able to sell them. So it doesn't do you any good in that respect. And I'm sure they've reproduced them. But definitely cool pieces like if you were to get one that was for Things Hand or for the mummy on monster bash or like they just i mean it cool to nerds like us most other people would be like why are you buying this garbage you spent how much on this yeah don't you understand that there was in a dumpster for a reason leave the trash in the trash oh the trash in the trash doesn't say how many bids it has on it but yeah i'll be definitely following this along i'm sure a lot of people, well... Don't follow it. Don't bet on shit I'm trying to buy. I mean, here's like the... It's okay, Jeff's not going to post this for like 23 more days. The genie, the lamp. Yeah, all kinds of stuff. They had some stuff that they were selling on eBay too back in the day, and I know there was some Atom. This is Capcom shit too. Yeah. The Flipper Football art proofs. Yep. All kinds of goodies. I'm just glad that we got the rotation I will definitely pay $3 for that before it ended up on here this will be Corbin's early morning scrolling scrolling porn pin size has been boring me lately what's been going on with the terrorist organization these days big talks about Alice yeah that's the most toxic thread it's absolutely terrible in my opinion I've not followed it anymore since there's no need to follow it There's nothing new. It's the same shit over and over again. Tariffs are coming in. They're not coming in. People are mad because they're not getting their games. People are fighting for their refunds. Because the refund window is currently open. I don't remember when it ends, but it's currently open. Right. But then they're saying, like, I think some of the great American people got confirmation the refunds were en route to them. Which is also interesting because I don't know how the refunds – there's been a lot of debate with the terrorists. And I have no clue, and I haven't put too much thought into it. But how it works, like, does CoinTaker – does she get the full refund check? and then she gives it to Great American and to the other subs, and then they're supposed to send it to the people. How the hell does all that work? It just seems like quite a mess because it's also like I wonder how, you know, I assume knowing the distributor side of it, like they have deposits in with Dutch. And so then if we had, let's say we were doing it and one of the customers requested a refund, then do we get the deposit back from Dutch or are we still on the hook? Or is the distributor still on the hook for the game? If we were a sub for Cointaker, we would get the refund from Cointaker. Cointaker would get their refund from Dutch. And they would get their deposit refund, you think? They're getting it back from Dutch? Yes. If they guaranteed that if your game doesn't ship by December of 2025. Because the terrorists have many other theories. I'm just curious to see. I guess we have no way to ever know how we can ever confirm it one way or another. So that's been the biggest. And everyone's just fired up because it's just a normal coin taker as far as – and I know a lot of it's out of her control or out of their control with the shipping and coming – it's coming from overseas. So that takes time. And Dutch has to ship the stuff and that takes time. You also have to build the games. And the toppers. Everyone's very – there's a small group of people who didn't get their toppers. And so now they're still very vocal and very fired up. I would be fired up. Yeah. Yeah, if I paid for it, for sure. I guess the biggest question I've had lately is, which I've been thinking about, you know, I paid for the game like two months ago or whatever. And at the time there was a tariff in place and I paid the additional tariff fee. I think it was maybe 10%. But either way, if my game does, let's say these tariffs get taken away and then my game ships after the tariffs are gone. If they're not getting charged the tariff, am I getting a refund? You would not. I'm sure I wouldn't. I'm just thinking, but I should because then they're not paying the tariff. An extra 10% is in their pockets. And if you try to say, oh, well, it's already in the U.S. and we had to pay it. Then why the fuck didn't it ship to me already? Correct. And I've been very patient. I'm not – people bother us enough with – not bother, but people always are looking for – and I understand you want to find information in your game. I'm not faulting you at all. Yeah. But I just hate to be – And I would assume that's probably an East Coast shipment as well. So it's not like it would be far away. No, it would be out of PA. Right. It's one day from PA. That's what I'm saying. I'll send a label. It's not like it's sitting in San Francisco right now. No, no. It doesn't matter if it's in San Francisco. That's three days. It's still like on a truck and tripping. Once it's actually moving, it doesn't take time. Once anything is safe side. Especially because we just pick stuff up from the terminal. Because getting it from the terminal to your house adds a couple days. LTL is, especially through any reputable carrier. Very efficient. Very efficient. Very fast. Not ABF. I'm just saying that most of the carriers No they are very efficient Very expedient That's been the most recent Other than that there's nothing else that I've been really It's been the shortest In the discords people have been going crazy About why hasn't Stern announced their next game And I feel like it's one of those Damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of situations Because if you're Stern And you have the game announced And okay well now you announced the game Now I need to see more all right now i've seen more now i need to see the stream okay now i'm in the stream and now i need to play it okay well now i've played it but now i hate it because the code's too early they're never going to be satisfied and this that the other and then at the very end of it then everyone's like well you know what i'm kind of coming around on this game it's actually you know kind of fun and kind of a good time it's like literally in the and i wanted to talk about this a little bit at the end of the episode like this is the five year five year anniversary for mad pinball which i think is kind of a a cool you know monument of of time for the company and the things that you know we've seen in that window and everything else but of like why like in those five years what has stern put out that they've not supported or put out that they've not then taken to code completion it's like all of these games at the end of the day are fun yeah well yeah i mean even to look at Bond when it came out and just dun dun dun dun dun over and over and to the point now where it's really developed into quite a nice game. I think a very full game. I just know in my time of doing this it's like they don't abandon games. They don't forget them. They're all fun. They all can be, you know, enjoyed. Somebody asked me the other day to connect their dialed in to the internet because they thought that there was going to soon be there should be a lot of code updates coming out for this thing, right? And I was like, there's no point in connecting it to the internet for sure. When was the last time they put an update for Dialed In? No. Because Jersey Jack's not like Stern. They don't put their ads on it and have that kind of stuff go on to it. So there's no need to. I wouldn't. The last code update for that game would have been use the drones less. That was the last code update for that game. I don't know if that one has the Wi-Fi dongle in it anyway, so I don't know if it was an option. So I obviously discouraged it and did not. He wants the Harry Potter ads is what he really wants. That's the important part. He also was looking for the signed cards, and I said, I got a signed Harry Potter ad I can send you, dude. I don't have the signed dialed-in roll cards or whatever you're looking for. It was a used game. Oh, boy. None of my lights work. You unplug the light board. Dealing in used games sometimes can be fun. It's one of those things where I was relaying this to Corbin the other day, and he's experienced it a good amount at this point where it's like we obviously have had hundreds of customers now over the years and there are some where they email you or text you or whatever, hey, I want my game. You send them their game and you don't hear from them again until their next game. That's the end of it. And then there are other folks who get one game and it takes them some time to decide which game they want and what they want and they come down and they play them and they do all of this and they do all of that. Fully encourage. Play it as much. This is a big purchase. Big time. Make the most educated decision you possibly can. But then they get the game and you hear from them literally every single day with, I mean, questions are encouraged for sure, but just things that are. Stupidity is not. Stupidity is not encouraged. It's just can be exhausting. You know, a little bit of research goes a very long way. Put it in the manual. It'll be fun. But I think that's also part of a lot of people were talking about, I guess, the pinball show just recently did their year end. And they, Zach, actually talked about their sales. I haven't listened back to the episode yet, but he talks about, I think, like Beetlejuice being a big seller for them, Jaws 50th. And there was another one. And it was, you know, basically mirroring Harry Potter, obviously, was the other one. It was mirroring a lot of, you know, what were the big sellers for us and everything else. But I think the continual growth of the hobby is relied upon getting new people into it, and getting new people into it are a lot more hands-on. Driven by Jurassic Park sales. I also saw that they interviewed the guy that bought American Pinball. Oh, did they? The pinball show did? Okay, because I read the one that the Kineticist did, where it was like eight questions or whatever, and it was all like email form. Yeah, that's wrong. That was wrong. Ron bought American Pinball? No, no. Ron is still in the same role as he's been in. Steve bought American Pinball? No. Applebee's sponsored him. You're right. The answers on the kinetesis were from Ron and the pinball show had the new owner. Is Ron still going to be involved? Yes. He's just escalated to, I mean, he's basically number two. Who does number two work for? So yeah, anyone who hasn't heard and I'm sure if you're listening to this podcast you have your fingers on the pulse. American Pinball has been sold to an investor in Texas who is also a pinhead, and he's out doing the rounds. He used to own another company. He did not. Corbin, stop spreading that misinformation. What was that guy's name? Robert Mueller. No. Hell yeah, brother. Hell yeah. Want to see? Want to see the pin bar? The pin pod. Across the bottom. We need a pin pod. Ninja Clip's about to go on a journey. Back to Texas you go. Do we have any fact checks? We haven't done a fact check in a while. We can do a big fact check on the next episode because I've got some notes. Columbus Ben, Texas Corp and I are saying he hates shitty pinball mods too. I think his exact word is shitty wiring. Shitty wiring. My problem with non-factory mods are ball traps. Ball traps, things that are being put on with two-sided tape. Hot glue. and whatever else. It's just... Looking at you, Tina. That shit came back to me. But no, we can do it. This episode I didn't want to open with some big long fact check. I wanted to get right into the system three. So what you're saying is that people just need to snooze through this one and come back for the next one. I'm sensing we're getting cut off soon. Is there any events coming up that we need to talk about? There are. Tomorrow night, Walking Dead launch party I think is at Finney's? That's correct. I gotta get Walking Dead down there So that's gonna be Wednesday January 21st Yes yes yes And then January 31st and February 1st Is the Church Arcade in Pittsburgh Yeah that's coming up We're taking a handful of games over After that then What are we taking? Mando, Alien, Unless It Sells Metallica Remastered I guess Metallica Remastered And I think that's it They didn't commit to it. I offered all the spookies. I offered Challenger. I offered whatever. Mike didn't seem interested. I feel like we should take Space Hunt. Because I think that was on the Space... You did. You put it on there. Space Hunt can go. That's fine. Wednesday the 4th. We're heading. Triangle Pinball Collective at the Flight Deck in North Carolina. We'll be sleeping in the parking lot or in the Collective. We're not sure yet. Maybe at the beach. Put up your little hammock. The Flight Deck? I thought that was the New York one. That's the... Oh, that's where we're going? Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. The Triangle Pinball Collective is at the Flight Deck in North Carolina. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, that's where we're going. Bring your hammock, tie it up between a couple palm trees. Totally, I mean, yeah, we can do that. And then Florida. Pinball at the beach, baby. I'm getting a little nervous about Alice Cooper, but we'll see. I mean, even if it's just there with a, you know, on display for people to... It's just, you know... I'm not going to take it if it's not working. You know I'm going to... Oh, come on. I will save all night making you work. We're going to take Domino's anyways. Or Jeff's. Domino's. I'm like, is something wrong with Domino's? I just want to put it out there. All of mine work perfectly. So do I. It's because I never turn them on. That's true. But yeah, that should be a good time. Beetlejuice will be there. Potentially the new Stern will be there. Hexa Space Hunt will be there. Challenger will be there. Rotation 8 will be there. We'll be there with our 15 of our closest spooky pinballs. It's going to be a good time. Yeah, yeah, with Rotation Challenger. Who knows what else? Whatever will fit on the trailer. I don't know. Maybe Morgan isn't emailing me back because I asked her if we could have a Beel Juice from Pinball TV. That doesn't seem unreasonable. For the weight that you're pulling, I don't think that's an unreasonable request. Can we have one to bring it back? I'll provide whatever tech information, whatever feedback. We'll put lots of games on it. Don't you worry. Yes. We'll get some action. But yeah, the Ohio IFPA Championships went very well. So wasn't that kid that won? No, he got second. So Sterling got second. I saw that little kid there, too. Greg Kennedy's also, he's early 20s, so pretty young guy as well. Aaron Rich, one of the players that we sponsor, was fourth this year, his best finish at the Ohio States so far. How did it sound, dude? I did see how far Jaden went. I know he made it out of the first round, but he didn't go as deep as I thought that he may. What about the females? That's what I was just going to say. The previous Ohio women's champion, Krista, did not repeat this year. That Asian mom won? I know. Yeah. I didn't realize she was the champion. Yeah, she won 20-25. Shit, I knew she was good. Yeah. And then a few of the other players that I follow, Nicole Turk, also did not win. Her sister, though, I believe made it to the final four. She was in the top four. Okay. So a lot of great competition, a lot of great players. I think I saw something that said, like, nobody has been a repeat winner. Greg Kennedy was the first Ohio repeat champion. It's embarrassing. Yeah. The coolest thing that I saw this weekend was in Wisconsin, the same lady won the women's and the open. She won both. Oh, that's cool. I thought he was going to say the women's and the men's, and I was going to be like, what the? No, it's... The open, yes. It's not men. That is very cool. That's very cool. Is there a normal... I mean, is it... I've never seen that before. Even like a guy to do the guys in the open? So there is no guys. Oh, there's... There's open, which is everybody, and then there's women's. How come there's no just guys? That would be sexist, man. Isn't it sexist that there's not just the guys? Man, we could have a whole other podcast about this subject. I gotta go to bed. I'm getting cut off. All right. But yeah, so that went very well. Congratulations to Mike Baer and Jeffrey Dixon, I believe, is the new Ohio IFPA rep. I told Mike he's big time now. Oh, he is. Where do you go from here? It's like after we interviewed George Gomez. It's like nothing. We peaked. We peaked. There's nothing. It's been downhill since. We're bleeding out after that, yeah. You've already, you've hosted the state championship, and Ohio, again, has never repeated the same location for state championships. So it's like, dude, you're – I'm going to submit – Mike told me the process. I'm going to submit Kyle's basement for next year. I think New York City, it's in an apartment. It was, yeah, last year, wasn't it? Yeah, last year it was in an apartment. I think this year for New York it was at the Rochester Pinball Collective. So, yeah, some coolness. I don't know if I would want to take on that. It's a lot of pressure. They're pretty picky about their stuff. A lot of pressure. Even though I was playing – yeah. Lots and lots and lots of pressure But yeah those are the events that are coming up We'll do an epic fact check And some container talk Maybe by that time you'll have like new truck and trailer By the Talking about truck man we're trying The truck is challenging my specs apparently are Not We don't want a fancy ass truck We just want a work truck And I don't want diesel We don't want the Denali Once you say no diesel That takes out a bunch then once you say I prefer sixes I prefer to not be white like all the Yukons and all of those that have the six twos that are blowing up right now they had a bunch that had the fifth wheel stuff pre-installed like ready in the bed but it's like I don't need a fifth wheel stuff a plastic little cup so then it's like well we'll put these little caps on it's like no we're just gonna break that rust it's a little ways out to get one that's what we're fighting alright eventually we'll get one I'm glad that the little my little black trailer is uh is doing well glad that It's getting some use and everybody's banging their head off of it, except your dad. I'm sure your dad's fine because he's... Not going in and out of it. He's a little short. That probably helps. No, he's a little shorter. A little shorter. But now, final thoughts, Kyle? Play more pinball. Play more pinball at the beach. We're going to have another episode of more pinball at the beach. And by the way, this will be it before pinball at the beach. 50-50. Never now. Yeah, we're not. And by the way, if you see me in Pinball on the Beach, let's go in the ocean together. Yeah, if you're looking, I'm going in the ocean with you. Are you talking to other people? I'm telling other people. That was already, we already knew that. Final thoughts, Zach? Try to make a Pinball on the Beach. See all the spookies we bring. Yes, please come. Come see the children. Corbin, final thoughts? See you guys soon. Play better? Play better. Play better I'm very excited for Pinball at the Beach Any final thoughts Jeff? That's my final thought Get out there and play some pinball Come to the church arcade on the 31st or February 1st How many days before you leave your house again? I'll leave Nora's going to have school tomorrow I guess Did he get his pass? Did he have a parking pass? Oh yeah He's driving himself on Thursday Wow I have to go down to Carrollton Do some business Do some business thanks everybody for listening see some guy about to stop