Predator Revealed! Hi, my name is Jonathan Euston, I'm the editor of Pinball Magazine, and I'm joined by... You're joined by Martin there, the editor of Pinball News, and we are joined by Pinball Brothers CEO, Daniel Janssen. Hello, Daniel. Hello, hello. and of course we have Daniel here because we are recording this at the time of the launch of Pimple Brothers' next title which is of course Predator as I'm sure you will have seen and read all about it by now but I was going to say there's a lot of information that we don't yet know about the game so who better to answer all our questions than the head of the company so So I suppose at first we should start off with asking you about the title. I suppose we should start with congratulations. Yeah, indeed, yes. Let's talk about Predator then. How long have you been working on the Predator game, I suppose, and acquiring the license and everything that goes into producing a new game? uh yeah uh we um we have been knowing that we are gonna make predator quite quite a long time uh is it's um yeah with all these uh licensing things you uh you sort of have to plan plan ahead and when those contracts in this case we obviously are working with disney and who acquired 20th Century Fox, so that is how that came to be. And since they liked what we did with Alien, it wasn't that hard to talk about making another game in the vicinity of Alien, if you like. So it was kind of natural and straightforward. So we have been knowing that for quite a long time. But we started on the game sometime last summer. so after the reveal of EBA yeah that's true I mean it's really hard to say exactly when you start because you do some preparations and so on but if I think about forming a real project and start working on that right and when you started going after the license for started discussions about the license for Predator, was that still with 20th Century Fox at that point or had they been taken over by Disney by then? No, no, it was way later. It was when we did an extension with Disney. So it's... Right, that was for the Alien... Yeah, Alien Ripley edition, was it? Yeah, something like that, yes. Right, okay. Well, obviously this isn't the first time a Predator pinball has been made, so So were you somewhat hesitant about making a Predator game, given all the sort of bad feelings and bitterness that existed around the Skip Feed version when that came out? Actually, because I think very few people who are involved in the team was around at the time, actually. and I knew about it, of course, but it's, I don't remember now, but it must be like, that must be 12 years ago or something like that, right? Yeah. Yeah. So we, of course, it was a really sad thing that happened, but it felt like such a long time ago. And so we thought, on the other hand, that this is a theme that people really want to see as a pinball machine. And we also, I mean, the whole team is really passionate about Predator. So it was kind of a dream theme to work with also. So that decision was quite easy. Okay, now speaking of the team, can you tell us who were on the team, who designed the game or the playfield in that matter, and who was in charge of music and art and all that kind of stuff? Yeah. for the initial playfield design the the initial ideas um i should say there was a collaboration between um the core team was actually three people and that is uh i mean we are working um quite closely with the european ball corp and so it was a a core team with myself and Peter Peter Dahlman, our mechanical engineer, and then Andrea at EPC. Andrea Pedrezzi, yeah. Yeah. So we came up with an initial rough design, I would say. And many of those ideas are still in the game, so it kind of developed from there. And then I have been leading the development team for this project. Okay. But who is in that team then? Who did the artwork for the game and the music and sound and other aspects? All the bits and pieces. Yeah, let's go through it. For artwork, if you start with that, It's obviously Orik Lawson, who did the artwork. Okay, right, great. And that came out really, really great. I think it's actually quite a few people who are still around from the Alien days that are involved in this project, and Orik is one of them. And then we have Kelly Masarovsky, who is doing everything you see on screen in terms of animations and graphics and user interface. And then Brian Domini, he hasn't been heavily involved in this one, but obviously he's the guru of the core system, you could say, that we use, the software platform. and then the play field the game design when it comes to rules is mainly by me but it's also of course everything is a team effort I would say we work really a lot as a team but it's always important that somebody is in charge of course make decisions when needed and know what ideas should actually come into the game and then on programming the software side is me and a guy called Andreas, not Andrea but Andreas and then we have Peter who I mentioned before who is our Swiss. Yeah, but he's also a Swiss army knife, I would say, because he knows so many things. He also does a bit of coding, but he's mainly done the mechanical engineering. And a guy in France called Albrecht. Albrecht Oblan. He's a great guy with super great skills in electronics. But that said, we have also, I tend to say we have a new partnership, but it's actually not new, because we have worked with Fast Pinball for a year, or more than a year, when it comes to the remakes of Funhaus. So since we used that platform in the Funhaus remake, it was pretty straightforward for us to make that decision to move there for our original games also. Right, I was going to ask you about that, because that seems like quite a change on your platform, because previously you used your own hardware or board set, and now you've moved over to the fast Fimble system. Yeah. What were the advantages of doing that, as opposed to keeping it all under your control in-house? yeah it's of course in in one sense it's not an easy decision to make such a big change but honestly after after working with uh aaron and dave and eli and the guys at at fast for for quite a long time and we have seen the games being solid and their platform is solid and And we also saw others using FAST, of course, with good results. So it was kind of a very easy decision in the end. It was a no-brainer, I would say. Because if you look at it, it's really hard to see any downsides with it, to be honest. For us as a company, when it comes to purchasing, assembly, supporting the system, replacement parts, anything, it is easier to have one system than have two systems. And also for the customer, I mean, for the end customer, it's also better, I think it's safer, could be, in the end of the day. Yes, to have a system that is... It's an extended life, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Fewer custom parts in the game. Exactly. I mean, you're right. I mean, we have no intention of going away or stop making pinball machines. But if I were an end customer, I would prefer to have a board system in my games that is easy to get and that I know is widespread and used in many machines. So I think it's a good decision, and we have not regretted it yet, I can say. Good. Okay, moving on from that, I've got to ask you, it's kind of like the elephant in the room, which we haven't addressed yet. This is based on the Predator original movie, but there are no assets or no visuals of characters or actors from that movie in the game as far as I can see. So I'm going to ask you, what assets from the original movie do you have? You talk about there being original call-outs, original movie scenes and clips but to what extent is that in the game? Do you have the usual actors doing the call-outs or are they re-voiced? What do the video clips show? Are they just of the actors from the movie shown on the screen? Yeah. It's a good question and I fully understand that you ask it because if I were on the other side I would ask the same question no but I hope I can give you the full picture here yes please we are basing the game on the first movie right? we could have used other assets also but we decided to focus on the first movie because that is the iconic one It is, yeah. And we do have, actually, the full movie. So, so far, so good. But in this world of licensing, it's a lot of different parties involved and so on. But without getting diplomatic or anything, just keeping straight to the facts, we have all the clips in the movie is there. You have like all the actors are in there. The only restriction we have is that we can't show Arnold close-ups, basically. And this may sound strange. So he's actually in there also. But we, and also when it comes to, you asked about voices and so on. We have all the quotes from the movies. We have all the characters saying their things. I should say this. I should put this in context. because when we started working on this last summer without knowing what to get and not to get and so on, because that is, I guess everybody tells you the same story, that it's a challenge and you get bits and pieces and things get sorted and some things are not sorted and so on. But we decided early on that this game is about the predator. Even if we won't, of course, you should be part of the movie. should get to see the characters in the movie and get the quotes and all the stuff. But the game is about fighting the predator. And so the idea, the basis for the game is that you step into the shoes of being Dutch Right that what you asking about yes Yeah so you play the game as Dutch and in the user interface you have the crew members the faces of them and you can ...special missions, and especially important is to bring them into the fights with the predator, because that will make you last longer and make it easier to survive, basically. Luckily, you can, which is different from the movie, you can actually revive the crew members to die. So that is quite convenient, to be honest. Yeah, it's quite useful. And then you also collect, obviously, a lot of guns that are familiar in the movie. You collect ammunition, and internet solutions, and so on. And in that context, and by being Dutch when we play the game, it kind of fits the narrative that you are not seeing, that Arnold is not that significant on screen, even if he's occasionally there, of course. Yes. But I would lie if I would say that we wanted it to stay that way. Of course, we are also fans of the movie. We still want to show him. We also want the famous clips to be there. also so more clips so we are we are uh waiting for um uh there there are talks ongoing in that in that area so that door is far from so we uh we will definitely keep developing the game for a long time and um that to be honest with you is is uh things could have changed when we stopped this conversation today, it is that hard to know, actually. So it's, but as it is now, all the actors, all the quotes, everything, the only restriction is the close-ups. Is it just close-ups of Arnie or is it close-ups of all the characters? Only of him. Right, okay. So everything else is that, yeah. Yeah, I kind of assumed, but I'm looking at the play field, that you must be playing the part of Dutch, because there are inserts for all the other characters, you know, Blaine, Mac, Hawkins, Poncho, Billy and Dylan, but there wasn't a Dutch one. I thought, well, that must be you then. So it is. Okay, that makes sense. So now you have the Predator license, and you're developing the game, what are the key aspects of the movie that had to be featured in the design, had to be there on the playfield? what areas of the play had to be themed after various classic scenes in the movie? Apart from the predator himself, one sort of significant area is the camp, I think, on the left side, which is quite a big mold, because there's this big fight in the beginning, or 23 minutes into the movie or something, that big fight in the guerrilla camp. So that was one thing that we really wanted to have in there. And then another key aspect is obviously the minigun, which isn't really an area, but it's an item. And that was something we decided very early on that we need to get the minigun because it's so famous and it plays quite a significant part in the game also. Yes, very interesting feed. Yeah, it does. It's actually quite a long sequence, I would say, because it starts at the very top of the playfield, at the magnet that drops the ball into a subway, and then it comes up in a book, and then the ball lock on the right side is a lock post under an army net waiting for the balls to be released, fed to the minigun, I should say, and fired into play for the jungle blast multiball, which is kind of another famous part of the movie, I think, where they mow the whole jungle down. Yes, that's right. Yeah, so there are many, I think that that's the weird thing about Predator, that almost every, there are a lot of passages in the movie where they are just walking in the jungle. It's quite silent and calm. But then all of these different events are happening. and we have tried our best to highlight them all in the game, I would say. You can look at the special missions on the play field, and you can see that there's the assignment, which is all about the beginning of the movie, where they actually get the assignment and fly to the jungle. And the objective of that mode is to drop all the soldiers into the jungle. and then you have the green berets where they cut down the guys from the bodies from the trees then you have the camp fight and then you have the jungle blast scene and then you have the part of the movie where they are setting traps to catch the predator and obviously on top of everything you have these predator attacks that are happening in the game also. So it's quite a lot that's going on. Okay, can we just go back to one aspect of this, which is about the assets in the movie. You say, well, you do have the original movie score by Alan Silvestri in the game. Is that like a single track? Is that multiple different tracks which are used? in different parts of the gameplay. And if it's just like the main theme, is there other music and who composed that? Yeah, I got sidetracked before. I think I sidetracked myself, actually. Yeah, we're just talking about the team. Yeah, I know. I can continue doing that. Yeah, we got sidetracked onto the fast pinball stuff, I think. Yeah, exactly. I'm glad you bring it up because the guy responsible for music is Olof Olof Gustafsson. Can you repeat the name? I think there was a little blip. Can you repeat the name? Olof Olof Gustafsson. Thank you. Typical Swedish name. He is a phenomenal music guy. but the thing with him is that maybe I've said this before in an ABBA interview perhaps because he did the sound for ABBA as well but obviously in a music pin the music guy or sound guy had to obviously work around the music somehow in this game I think Olof has been even if he had the main theme to work with now he has composed a lot of music and I must say that the music in this game that he has made is exactly spot on what you could imagine. It really sounds Predator all the time, I would say. And then you have that famous main theme coming into play at various stages of the game. So I just need to give you a little bit of background with Olaf because some people might remember Digital Illusions, DICE, also called, back in the day. He is actually one of the founders, I think they were four, of that company. And he designed the pinball layouts for the pinball dreams and pinball fantasies and pinball illusion, the series that got them famous, I would say. And he also obviously did the sound for those games. Then he moved on and he has been working on big games like Battlefield and many other games, of course, over the years. But his skills with weapons and weapon sounds has really come to use. So he was doing the whole sound package for it then? It's fantastic. So it's a lot of nice, calm music in some parts of the game, and then it's more upbeat and a lot of action sounds, of course. Right. But talking about sounds, do you have a commentator or a guide for the game telling you what to shoot and doing jackpot call-outs and things like that? Yeah. Extra ball and all that kind of stuff. And if so, who was doing that? James Burnett. James Burnett. He has done a lot of the call-outs for the game, the general call-outs, the pinball call-outs. Right, but what else did he do? I think you're saying he's your something guy. Yeah, he's the voice actor for the game. He's doing all the guiding you with all the where to shoot and stuff like that. Okay. Okay. There's also various toys on the game, including the Predator himself, which is a gray or silverish-looking figurine. This may be a very silly question, but I'll ask it anyway. wouldn't it have made more sense to make it like transparent plastic the Predator because in most of the parts of the movie you can actually see through him yeah that's a good point I don't think that honestly I'm not sure of this but I don't think that Disney would have approved a transparent sculpt to be honest because they have they are very strict when it comes to what they approve. So, and this is another person that I really would like to highlight here, which is Malin Malin Ivarsson. She's the one responsible for the models in the game. The camp model, which is quite huge, with the jeep and the huts and the barrels and all that, and also the Predator main character. So, and we are extremely happy. I don't know, I don't think, I don't know exactly what pictures you have right now in front of you when it comes to that sculpt, but for being in the pinball machine, I must say we are, I didn't think we should end up with something as detailed as this. Very good, yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. In the information we've received, it says that it's interactive and attacking. What does the Predator model do in the game? Yeah, he doesn't come at you, but he's actually moving up and down and left and right in his nest. and he snarls and growls and makes all that typical predator sounds and there's a lot of light shows of course accompanying this also with the I mentioned that so we are really happy with that because that is one part of the game that it's really important for us that you should really feel like you are you are being you are fighting the predator and you have to fight him off obviously because you can't kill him in the beginning of the game yes I'm looking at some pictures in different lighting conditions and it certainly does change the whole feel of the game from being bright green or dark green I should say and through to metallic blue and purples there's a lot of different lighting effects you can do there and obviously do within the game yeah i think we actually have a lot more lighting in this game than any other game we have made uh we have uh we have a lot of flashers and spotlights and we also have a lot of rgb lighting um in various places so it's that was quite important to be able to to work with with a lot of lighting effects when it comes to making him um it should really feel like he is um um coming to life to life yes when you when you beat him right but the predator is sort of like the best toy in the game i would say that yes i mean that's the main toy in the game and then you obviously i i kind of like the i think it's a cool idea with a minigun to be honest um but i think all of these things together that that is what makes the game special that you have you also have um uh the chopper of course uh in the upper left corner where you start all the special missions uh and um with all of these things together i think it's it becomes a kind of cohesive uh game actually uh you have the minigun you have the predator you have the camp you have the chopper And yeah Can you tell us a little bit about what the chopper does Because it's described, again, as interactive and having a physical warlock. It's not the same kind of physical warlock you have in the ABBA game, in the helicopter there. But what's the interactive aspect of it? yeah uh first of all it's it has a rotor so you they obviously the the rotor spins so the helicopter is flying and then you uh you have the the lock mechanism is below it in the ramp below it so it's uh but you it's kind of significant for the game because you you start all the special missions there and you lock the balls for the chopper multiple there even if you don't start it there but you lock two balls there so okay um now in in this in this model um as with uh abba you you have two versions of the game available um they are both i guess they are identical as far as gameplay and playfield goes, but you can also have the trophy package, which comes with a special starry green metal armour, Shaker Motor and Invisiglass, as well as backbox mission lighting. Can you tell us a bit about that and what that is and how that works? Yeah, first of all, we we consider it actually that we offer. We wanted to keep it simple. And so you basically buy the Predator pinball and that's it. But you can get it with an upgrade kit, if you like. So, but I understand that. I mean, if you put on that kit, it becomes like a second version of the game. So hang on, just on that point, the kit is something which comes separately, which the buyer installed? No, it's actually installed at the factory. Yeah, it's pre-installed. But you just decided, I want to buy a Predator pinball machine, and you buy it with or without the trophy package, basically. Right, yes. So that's the idea. Or the backbox lighting. yeah the back post lighting is uh you have lights you have uh 60 rgb controllable rgb lights on the back of the backbox so um though you have a lot of lighting as i said before in the game but if you go with a trophy package you get these extra lights in the back back of the backbox And those lights give quite an extra dimension to the lighting when you start or play different modes in the game. So if you start the assignment mode, for instance, the most of the play field turns red and the helicopter spins, and then you have the light show also at the back of the backbox in red. So this illuminates the wall behind. Exactly. Assuming there is a wall. Yeah, but it becomes kind of lit even if you don't. It depends on if you have a dark room or lit up room or how much you see it. But it gives quite a good extra feeling, I would say. And what's the jungle service kit that also comes as part of the trophy package? yeah that's a really nice looking ammo box in it's a wooden box um with some extra extra stuff in it i'm honestly not sure if it's specified what's in the box uh do you have it in your no absolutely no it's just mentioned on the flyer but i i suppose it's something like the goodie box that you had with previous games, like with Alien and Queen? Exactly, exactly. And I know that there are some stuff that are related to the movie, and I know there is an... I'm just not sure if it's in the box or outside the box, but if you buy the trophy package, you get a quite exclusive poster. a limited poster, printed poster, on a really nice paper. So that's one of the things that you get. Okay. How far is coding done, so to speak? And is gameplay completely set out in the sense that you know, like, okay, we're going to have, like, this many multiples and this many missions, this many wizard modes, and so on? Yeah, I would say that the basic structure is set since quite a long time ago. And we are, it's kind of advanced already now. There are a few weeks still until the first games ship. and that is mainly because we are building games as we speak now but the first games will not ship until I would say mid-August to be safe because there are some parts that has a really long lead time and the molds in the game is one of those items. So, my games are being built and being made ready. And in the meantime, I believe that the game will be really advanced or more or less complete at that time. Of course, there will be parts. We will still have a lot of development after that because to me, honestly, I think one really big advantage of the times we are living in now with updates, the possibility of updating the games is that you can actually get feedback from people playing and you can actually make adjustments if things are too hard or too easy or whatever. You can make the game more fun. So I think that, I know there's sort of some arguing that games are being shipped too early. And I agree to that because you need to have a certain level of readiness of the game for sure. But I also believe strongly that the game can really develop over time also. But we are in a good spot now and we will be in a really good spot in a few weeks from now. So that's good. Right. Okay. Sorry, carry on. BW, presumably Harry Williams, style flipper and pop bumper mechs. So what's different in this game compared to the flippers and the pop bumpers in earlier Pimple Brothers games, other than the fact that they are now being driven by a fast? Yeah, they are also different from a mechanical perspective, because we, to be honest, most parts in most pinball machines today that are made are having very similar parts in general. But we had a few parts that were still sort of custom, you could say. But now we are moving towards, it's a little bit about the same thing as with the change into the fast system. that I think the assembly line and the purchasing and support and everything by using the same the same parts basically so and and then on top of that as it seems a lot of people seems to like that setup those mechanics that style of mechanics so I guess again it's a win-win to be honest. do you notice a different feel when you're playing the game yeah i i think it's uh it's different because if you look at uh that's one of the beauties of working with a company like like fast to be honest because uh i think i'm quoting aaron and the guys when i say that he usually says that we are obsessive with perfection and making things working exactly as we want them to. And, I mean, it says itself, more or less, that if you have a company that are solely focused on, okay, they are not solely focused on flippers, but they are very focused on the electronic system and also the flippers in particular. Yeah, and the response. they work yeah exactly i mean he's posting uh movies and small videos showing tap passing and so on and it's really really really great in my opinion to be able to work with them and to be able to utilize what they have been achieving so i think this is again a really win win for everybody um it's really hard to say exactly what the difference is it's really hard to describe what flipper feeling feels like, but all I can say is it feels good. And the pop bumpers as well. Yeah. They appear more responsive. Yeah, they are. But I honestly, I think when it comes to the pop bumpers, I haven't been, I honestly don't think that they are more responsive than the other ones. What we used before is more like the old Stern or Data East pop bumper mechanism, where you have a plastic housing and you actually have a big hole in the playfield where you can fit the whole assembly. Right, yes. And I think when it comes to the pop bumpers, it's more about serviceability than function, to be honest. Because it just means that you have more common parts in there. Right. Okay. So we just were talking about the flippers. looking at the playfield of the game, below the flippers on the apron there is this Joutja interactive sacrifice can you please explain what that exactly is? Yeah, it's obviously the Predator's arm device the famous one so you can see on the artwork on the apron, you can see his arm and then you see the device being part of that arm. And what it is, of course, is a display. It's an LED display with a Yautja language. And we use it, it's used in the game, not just for fun. It will actually be used for some interactivity with the game, so for countdowns and stuff like that. So it is also useful. But it's looking nice, isn't it? Yeah, so it's almost like a second screen in the game then. Yeah, it is a second screen, but it's just limited to showing Yocha characters. So you have to learn that. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. You get it from the course with the game. Yeah. With the trophy package. Exactly. In the army box. Yeah, that's right. You should get a translation guide. Now, you mentioned that you were looking to ship the game around about the middle of, or start shipping the game in the middle of August. obviously we've been speaking about this before, and not just in terms of Pinball Brothers Games, but in terms of lots of other companies as well, and the situation shipping games to the US as far as import tariffs go. Is that something which will impact on your shipping decisions as to when you will send games to the US, or is it something which you'll just have to play by ear as and when, what the situation is at the time, or do you have definite plans with your US importers and distributors as to what you're going to do? Yeah, it's a really good question. First of all as you bring it up it really really really difficult to plan anything That is number one I guess So what we have to do is to actually stay flexible and see what happens And then, of course, it will all be decided, I think, when it comes to who wants their game. I mean, if there is a situation where the tariffs would be, for some reason, be raised to really high levels, and people really don't want to receive their game at that time, then we can obviously look at rescheduling and send games elsewhere, perhaps. but it says itself that it's going to be it could, it depends on what happens with the tariffs but it could be smooth and it could be quite messy but in the end of the day I would say this, we have a lot of discussions with all our distributors and we are trying to take measures to to as many as possible can get the game because we really want this game to come out there and be played because it deserves it. And people deserve to get this game. But again, it's impossible to say depending on what the tariffs will be at the time. But the short answer is obviously that we have different markets so we can talk to everybody and see where it's most suitable to ship games when the time comes. Great. Okay, well, I guess we'll just sort of almost wrap this up, but we'll give you the chance to tell everybody why they would want to buy your Predator game given the state of the market right now and what's so exciting about Predator from Pinball Brothers. yeah i think uh we have really really poured our hearts into this game and to stay we have tried our best to stay true to the to the movie we really love the movie and we loved we want to love to play this game and we do so uh and i hope this comes through when it comes to the everything from the layout to the mix to the feeling of the game the light shows and I think one particular thing that we have really tried to catch is the contrasts between the calm moments and the eerie moments when they step into the jungle and then things become chaotic and then it goes back to calm again and so on. So those contrasts is something that both in the end and in terms of action so yeah we really hope that people get to play this game as soon as possible and that they they love it as much as we do okay so when can we expect gameplay videos uh soon i really hope no that was a bad answer uh i'm actually not on top of it as for the moment but we are working around the clock to uh to bring everything out as soon as we possibly can so um there will be uh there will hopefully be um gameplay um in a matter of days okay um one thing we didn't address yet i know martin was rounding up but um this question just popped up and I'm eager to ask. Similar to Alien, this is a wide-body game. Was it a decision right from the start that it should be a wide-body game or did your design turn out to be that it needed to be a wide-body game? I think it was a pretty easy one because we wanted it to be sort of a sister game to Alien, basically, because we know that many people who love Alien also love Predator, and we do the same. So we really want to have them side by side. So that was kind of the first thing. The second thing is that we really wanted the game to be fully loaded with stuff. And with a wide-body game, you can actually get some extra, a couple of extra inches to cram stuff in there. So, I think it's both of those things that made it a wide body. But it was sort of clear from the very beginning that this needs to be a wide body for various reasons. Okay. I do have to pick up on something you said there. If you got the system game to a... have you thought about doing an Alien vs. Predator game? I mean, for sure it has crossed our minds, but it's nothing planned in that direction. But it's a good question and it's a natural sort of development, I guess so okay I don't know if Jonathan has any more questions well I am kind of curious you mentioned earlier your games are being manufactured in Italy by the Euro Pinball Corporation now that Predator is announced and going into production does this mean it's the end for ABBA or Queen or Alien or are those games also still being built, although not at the priority level, perhaps. Exactly. We can build games on order, basically, but for the moment, the games on the line being built are Funhausen, Abbas, and now, obviously, Predator. So that is... But I don't know the exact situation when it comes to Alien, but I know that there are just a few games that can be built, if any, to be honest. Right, and if parts are in stock, of course. Yeah, that's mainly the thing, I would say. Okay. So I guess it will be a predator summer for Euro Pimple Corp. Obviously, August is a holiday month for Italians, which partly explains, I think, the second half of August that you're hoping to start shipping games. any comments so far on how the ebba and queen games have done for you obviously two music pins in a row that's not something that we've seen from many other manufacturers how did that turn out for you um that's a that's a good question i i haven't thought about that particular thing that we had to of course i'm aware we had two musical twins after each other but i i never thought about it in the way that you uh ask it now or describe it but yeah i mean the i would say that um the whole the whole industry is obviously going through um a bit of strange times and in quite quite hard times so i would i would obviously lie if i would say that everything has been uh perfect but but on the other hand things has gone decently well for us otherwise i wouldn't be here speaking to because we couldn't live from breathing air, so we have to make money. So we have sold games, and we are decently happy with where we are, obviously. Also, it's kind of an investment to develop new games, of course, and to bring this to the market it is something that is quite a lot of work. I remember watching another manufacturer saying something about thousands of hours of work, and that is obviously true. You have so many disciplines, and it's quite an investment. So we have done, I think the bottom line that we have done decently well. But we, of course, would have been... hoped to do better, but it could have been a lot worse. I don't know if that sums it up. Pretty good. We've been talking about the money side of things there then. One of the things we haven't touched on yet is the price of the game. And the pricing of the trophy package as well. Yeah. And how you decide that and how that fits in the overall pinball market. So can you... The flyer doesn't give us the price. We haven't got the price at the moment. So do you want to tell us what the price of the game and the trophy package are, what prices are, and how that relates to your previous titles and the rest of the wider market? Yeah, yeah. As I said before, we see it as one model of the game, and the Predator pinball is priced at $10,995 US dollars as MSRP. And then the trophy package is priced at $1,495. so if you want to go with that so and to answer your other question i think um alien the highest version of alien is obviously the limited version that was priced 10,695. And that was a couple of years or more back. So, in that sense, with the inflation and everything and how fully packed this game is, we think this is sort of the best pricing we could do. We have obviously kept one eye on the, as you mentioned before, the tariff situation. And we know that people are suffering because if taxes are put on top of the MSRP, it's going to be harder to buy the game, of course. So we have really tried to... But this is the price that we, from all angles, came up with that was the best, actually. so um and to be honest i uh i must say that we haven't looked too much on on the competition of course i i mean i would lie if i would say that we didn't care about it at all of course we do everybody does everybody looks so but in the end of the I think for us as a small company, if we start looking at what others do and start doing things because of what they do, we are going to fail. That's what's on my mind. That is also the case when it comes to the launch of this game. because we have heard some people say, why didn't you release before that game or that game, or now you're going to lose out because of this or that. We made our plan and our schedule based on what we could do, what we wanted to do, and what we thought would be the best to do. And I think the same thing goes with the price. so we try to do what we think is the best way forward basically yeah I guess that rounds it up for our interview with Daniel Jensen Daniel thank you very much for your time and coming on this very special episode of this bonus pincast basically I guess we're done We wish you a very good launch as we are recording this the day before the game is actually launched. And we hope you sell a ton of games. Yeah, thank you very much for having me. And I hope you like what you see tomorrow. Yeah, thank you very much. And we look forward to playing the game very, very soon. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you.