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Chris Kooluris from Kaneda's Pinball Podcast - Episode 4

JBS Show·podcast_episode·1h 2m·analyzed·Nov 22, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Kaneda discusses content strategy, TPN politics, FOMO combat, and Wormhole's museum plans with Jamie Birchull.

Summary

Chris Kooluris (Kaneda's Pinball Podcast) discusses his content creation journey with Jamie Birchull at Wormhole Pinball in Houston. Topics include building an audience, navigating TPN network politics, his paywalled model conversion ratio, dealing with Pinside trolls, breaking game theme rumors as a content strategy, combating manufacturer FOMO, and his philosophy on community building versus isolating critics. Wormhole is developing a museum in downtown Houston featuring 165+ machines from collectors Tim and Christine.

Key Claims

  • Stern has the license to make Journey Pinball

    medium confidence · Chris mentions receiving a scoop that 'Stern has the license' for Journey, attributed to someone with 'loose lips' at IAPA event

  • There will be a fourth edition of James Bond pinball from Stern with Keith Elwin as designer for single level

    high confidence · Chris states he broke this scoop; even John at Jack Bar doubted it initially; later confirmed in industry

  • Back to the Future pinball is coming from Dutch Pinball based on films 1 and 2, not 3

    high confidence · Chris explicitly states 'I told the world that back to the future is coming from dutch pinball' and confirms it will be highly successful despite being known in advance

  • Wormhole Pinball's benefactors Tim and Christine own 165+ machines combined, including rare Australian Stern titles like Cosmic Princess

    high confidence · Jamie directly states the collection count and machine examples; framed as confirmed fact about museum collection

  • Chris was permanently banned from Pinside forums, along with Hilton Wiseno as only two lifetime bans

    high confidence · Chris describes ban trigger: posting photo of broken Hobbit ramp; later bans extended to people mentioning his name

  • Chris's paywalled podcast achieved 10% conversion ratio from free audience of 4,000-5,000 listeners per episode

    high confidence · Chris states 'I think the conversion ratio from that number to where i'm at now is i'm really just proud of it because you normally don't get like a 10 conversion ratio' and cites typical 2-3% industry standard

  • Wormhole Pinball was initially planned as a bar but parking issues prevented liquor license, pivoting to clubhouse model

    high confidence · Jamie explains the origin story directly

  • Wormhole operates only 3 days per month (first Saturday, first Monday, third Monday) with $15 tournament entry fee

    high confidence · Jamie provides specific operating schedule and pricing

Notable Quotes

  • “Stern has the license to make Journey Pinball. And because someone was talking at IAPA and had loose lips, the same way I knew that Keith Elwin was doing the single level James Bond is someone at Stern confided in someone who's a heavy Stern purchaser that there was going to be a fourth edition of James Bond.”

    Chris Kooluris — Major scoop claim; demonstrates Chris's sourcing methodology for leaked information

  • “I just love it because I don't think that these themes should be secret like I know grand theft auto is coming out I know what the movies are coming out next year why is it a secret right themes are coming out”

    Chris Kooluris — Core philosophy justifying theme spoiler strategy; anti-FOMO position

  • “The only way it kind of works is if you do build up an audience and you create something that people value and then and then you make it a paid thing. I mean it's just simple like anything in life”

    Chris Kooluris — Explains business model logic for paywalled content

  • “They've now removed me from the database as if the show doesn't exist. But I think cooler heads will prevail. I think Colin is just excited and angry at the same time.”

    Chris Kooluris — References TPN/Twippy Awards controversy regarding eligibility; suggests Colin (This Week in Pinball) is involved

  • “People know stuff. They don't want to burn their reputation or their relationship with the manufacturers. But they know I will. So they will – all they do is send it to me.”

    Chris Kooluris — Explains scoop sourcing strategy; leverages his willingness to publish despite manufacturer relationships

  • “It was a series of things. But the main, the post that did it, like the straw that broke the camel's back was, I was at Jack Bar and it was right when Hobbit came out and the Hobbit ramp broke. And I took a picture of it being like some quality disc machine. Like, that was it.”

    Chris Kooluris — Details trigger for Pinside permanent ban; quality criticism of game

  • “If we know every theme coming over the next year, it puts pressure on the manufacturers to make sure they get great themes that it doesn't matter that you know it's coming like you know jamie because i told the world that back to the future is coming from dutch pinball yeah it doesn't matter they're going to sell every single one and then some”

Entities

Chris KoolurispersonJamie BirchullpersonWormhole PinballorganizationThis Week in Pinball (TPN)organizationColinpersonStern PinballcompanyDutch Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Wormhole Pinball museum project in downtown Houston with 165+ machines from private collectors

    high · Jamie confirms 'We bought a beautiful building downtown' and 'Tim and Christine...have combined 165 machines'; museum in 'permitting and design stage'

  • ?

    community_signal: This Week in Pinball removed Chris from Twippy Awards database/eligibility despite 6 years of recognition

    high · Chris directly states removal; Colin (TPN leader) described as 'excited and angry'; Chris expresses confidence it will be reversed

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Pinside community moderation perceived as protecting anonymous trolls via anonymity; permanent bans extremely rare

    high · Chris and Hilton Wiseno described as only two lifetime bans in forum history; Chris's ban for quality criticism of Hobbit; subsequent ban on mentioning his name

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Manufacturer FOMO strategy creates 'good old boy club' where designer networks maintain information asymmetry to protect scarcity value

    medium · Chris alleges 'designers at stern will talk to their buddies who talk to their buddies...they're all colluding to keep this information secret' for FOMO advantage

  • ?

    leak_detection: Dutch Pinball Back to the Future pinball confirmed for films 1-2, not 3

    high · Chris states 'I told the world that back to the future is coming from dutch pinball' and describes it as already public knowledge in industry

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.186

0:00
uh welcome to the wormhole my name is jamie birchall and you are watching and or listening to our uh new podcast called wormhole pinball presents today i'm joined by the one and only chris canada welcome to the wormhole virtually this is yeah you're not here in person but we will get you here eventually you have very good fans and uh friends here and i want to thank blake how many say his name correctly i always do this now do this now so that's easy yeah he's now like he's now over at barrels of fun right so like he's got to be cautious what he tells me but um jamie i'm happy to be here your room is spectacular i'm looking at this wormhole and i've seen like streams from it like super envious you have a really cool like den set up to be you know to let your inner geek out well i'll give you like a one minute pitch on us right like a one minute uh elevator pitch on started we were uh quite frankly going to be a bar and uh we don't have parking parking is an issue here so we couldn't get a liquor license so then we just turned it into a clubhouse and at first it was private and then just during covid and then little by little we let more more people in and then we just started having tournaments here chris and then And that's when it really and then we were like, hey, let's just stream because what the hell we're here anyway. And I used to do a soccer podcast back in the day. I love this team out of Glasgow called Celtic. And so, I mean, it was actually a very successful podcast in Glasgow and in Scotland. I think we had like 8000 downloads a week, but that was all in Scotland. So if I ever went to Scotland, I would have been a celebrity here in the States. Nobody knew who the hell I was. So it's amazing. Are you a native New Yorker? I was born in New York City, grew up in the suburbs, went to college in Pennsylvania, and then back. I've been in the city for like 23 years after college. Yeah, so I'm from Long Island originally. Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean, got the Yankee hat on. Mike is on the team. You know, they're not doing very well. Yeah, at least I'm not a Met fan, right? Exactly, exactly. So there's that. Yeah, I grew up in Massapequa, Long Island, and then I moved to Florida. and then, like we all do, right? All New York to Florida. Eventually. My parents are in Fort St. Lucie. So where's the wormhole, Jamie? Oh, it's in Houston. It's in the Heights. Okay. It's in the Heights, just off of downtown. And we're actually building a museum. Did you hear about that? I heard rumblings. In Houston? Yeah, that's going to be in Edu in downtown. and so Tim and Christine, who are our benefactors and own the wormhole, have combined 165 machines. Wow. And not EMs. I mean, these are unbelievable pinball machines, and they need a place to play them. And so they bought a beautiful building downtown, and we're going to make a museum out of it. It's going to be incredible. And so it'll be something like you just pay to get in? Yeah, I think so. I think we're in the permitting stage, right? The design stage with the architects. But, yeah, it'll be a pay to come in and play these unique games that he has. You know, like trailer.

Chris Kooluris — Argues spoiling themes doesn't hurt sales if quality is sufficient; uses BTTF example as proof

  • “This is what annoyed me too about that's interesting perspective and there's a there's a good old boy club in pinball where those guys know what's coming down the line like you know designers at stern will talk to their buddies who talk to their buddies and then you know i get it like they're all colluding to keep this information secret”

    Chris Kooluris — Alleges insider information cartel among designers/manufacturers to maintain FOMO advantage

  • “This hobby wouldn't survive if it wasn't for a lot of wealthy men who want to turn their homes into arcades. I mean that is half of this hobby. What do you think about all those – you mentioned cul-de-sac buddies that got into the pinball”

    Chris Kooluris — Acknowledges wealthy collector base as economic foundation; references wealthy suburban buyers

  • “Pinball is doing just fine like it is doing just fine and what's happened is through covid right everyone got bored a lot of people were looking at their empty basements and they had that fifteen thousand dollars they spent on the family vacation was just sitting there the recession never came”

    Chris Kooluris — Attribution of pinball boom to COVID lockdowns and redirected vacation spending; counter to 'growth at all costs' narrative

    • Jersey Jack Pinball
    company
    Pinsideorganization
    Keith Elwinperson
    Tim and Christineperson
    Hilton Wisenoperson
    Jason Knappperson
    Blakeperson
    Ryan Whiteperson
    Aaronperson
    John (Jack Bar)person
    Janineperson
    Brendaperson
    Texas Pinball Festival (TPF)event
    Twippy Awardsevent
    Barrels of Funcompany
    $

    market_signal: Paywalled pinball podcast achieves 10% conversion ratio from free audience, significantly outperforming industry standard of 2-3%

    high · Chris states 'I think the conversion ratio...is i'm really just proud of it because you normally don't get like a 10 conversion ratio when you go behind a paywall it's normally like two to three percent'

  • ?

    community_signal: Ryan White (Chicago Gaming Company) unexpectedly reaching out to Chris; possibly signaling reconciliation or business interest

    low · Chris notes 'Ryan White at Chicago Gaming Company is calling me and he never calls me he never says anything'; unclear intent

  • $

    market_signal: Post-COVID pinball boom driven by wealthy collectors redirecting vacation spending to home arcades rather than fundamental market expansion

    medium · Chris argues 'everyone got bored...had that fifteen thousand dollars they spent on the family vacation...recession never came'; characterizes as temporary demand from specific demographic

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Stern planning fourth edition of James Bond pinball with Keith Elwin as designer

    high · Chris explicitly states he broke this scoop; John at Jack Bar initially disbelieved but later accepted; appears to have been verified

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Stern Pinball has licensing deal for Journey pinball machine

    medium · Chris claims scoop from loose-lipped IAPA attendee; unconfirmed by official announcement

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Jason Knapp's Knapp's Arcade evolved from respecting manufacturer embargo on rumors to publishing speculation as 'scoop master'

    medium · Chris notes Knapp's 'site evolved. Like there was a time when he didn't want to really put up rumors...he's now since become...much more interesting page'

  • ?

    business_signal: Content creators leveraging willingness to publish rumors to position as trusted sources vs. manufacturer isolation

    high · Chris explicitly states 'People know stuff...They know I will [burn bridges]...all they do is send it to me'; describes isolation paradox: 'more they isolate me on an island...the more popular the shows become'

    • 3:29
    You know, like Cosmic Princess behind me. Like, nobody sees Cosmic Princess. I mean, that was made Australian Stern. Nobody knows. And so he has, like, 50 to 60 of these machines, Chris, that nobody knows and nobody happens. And he just wants to show off his collection, but not show it off in a way like, look at me, but in a way of like. Yeah, let people play them. Let them play them, man. That's beautiful. Like sometimes, you know, I think people have lost the reason for these machines are to be played. You know, how many times you like got a Pirates of the Caribbean six years old with less than 20 plays. And it's like, what? Like, what happened? Yeah. We had a tournament here last night and we have it. We're open. We are technically open only three days a month, right? So it's the first Saturday, first Monday, and third Monday. And those are our tournaments. Okay. We pay like $15 to come in, right? And when you get knocked out of the 3X, you don't have to go home. You can stay here all night if you want. But we just had the tournament here last night, and so I'm here again this morning. My wife's like, what are you doing, man? You've been at this place all the damn time. So we actually met at TPF a couple of years ago. Blake introduced us to it. It was like one of your at Perry's. But, you know, that some might call that like a mixer, if you will. It's a media mixer of one. Yeah. And I think we'll hopefully we'll do it again this year. I don't know. There's a lot of trippy drama happening as I read that this morning. You want to talk about it? It's up to you. Yeah. I mean, like I mean, ultimately, it's just sad that after being recognized for six years, They've now removed me from the database as if the show doesn't exist. But I think cooler heads will prevail. I think Colin is just excited and angry at the same time. And I think he'll calm down.
    5:17
    But, you know, and look, it's all meant to have fun. You know, the award shows are celebrating what people love about pinball. And you can't cherry pick who you want to make eligible. Like, it's got to let the people decide. And I think when the drop down happens, I will say this. If the drop down happens on December 18th and I'm not listed as a podcaster or streamer, I wouldn't want to be on the other end of like the angry Canada fans who would be disappointed to see that. So I think it'll be fine. But I don't know, Colin. Right. I don't. Yeah. I'm a pinball creator that doesn't really watch or listen to any pinball because I'm fairly new to the pinball community. Right. But, you know, none of it makes any sense to me. Like, I'll tell you a quick story, all right? And this will get us going on this TPN type of thing, right? Right. So here we are, Chris. We're five episodes in during COVID to this wormhole pinball, right? And we're not good. I mean, we're not good. We don't know what the we're doing. Everything is just garbage. And I, being a salesperson and me, decide I want to join TPN and there's a spot on Monday. So, OK, let's go. So I reach out to the TPN powers of B and I say, hey, I see you have a spot on Monday.
    6:41
    We'd like to fill that. We're Wormhole Pinball. We're out of Houston and we're hot shit and whatever, whatever I decide to do. Right. And they say no. Of course they say no, because we're terrible. Right. And then they go, OK, you could join our discord channel.
    6:56
    Which I take as a slight, right? Like who, you know, Discord, I don't want to be on Discord. So I go on the Discord and I light them up because I'm trying to get better. I want this to be a thing here. I want what you see behind me to be representative of my hosting abilities as well. Right. So they help me a little and they're dealing with me. And then at the end of the year, they said we would look at people towards the end of 2022. So 2022, I come back and I go, all right, we got nominated for a Twippy. We're doing pretty good. I'd like to join TPN again. Right. Said no. Right. Which, and then, of course, I get pissed. Right. So then I'm lighting up guys here and I'm like, you know, they don't like us. What's the matter? It's an all boys club and all this. But really, that's just me being crazy. Right. Because at the end of the day, I put them in an impossible situation of saying no to me. Right. Who the hell am I? Right. Well, I always I always said this about, you know, TPN is, you know, ultimately it's a it's a network like NBC. Right. And so if you want to have a show on NBC, you have to kind of prove that you're worth. Right. And so I'm not surprised that they told you no to be honest. I wasn't good enough. I wouldn't take it personally. And we're seeing a lot of – I love the fact that a lot of people are jumping into the pinball content space. I love the fact that in the Twippies this year, which, by the way, was my idea, that we're going to recognize favorite new pinball podcasts, new streamer, new YouTube channel. Because it's like that's just going to get more people in. It's going to get people excited. It's hard to dethrone the people that have been doing it for a decade.
    8:39
    I was actually listening back to some of my old shows, and they are terrible, like terrible. Right. And and I can't even I don't even recognize the person doing like the first hundred shows I did.
    8:54
    But, you know, everyone's got to start somewhere. And, you know, I'm glad you've got the mic on. And, you know, you start to find your way. Everyone finds their voice and they find their angle in sales. And I'm in sales as well. I'm a recruiter. I teach people to find their voice. Right. And what is your voice? And I'm I'm very glad they said no to me. truthfully because I don't want to be beholden to anyone right and uh we're starting to put out some good content and you know it's crazy right now Ryan White at Chicago Gaming Company is calling me and he never calls me he never says anything I can't I don't want to I don't want to sandbag him and pick it up and I'll tell him I'll call him back but that's that's a scoop that he's he's alive that he's well I find what you do very fascinating right like I think how did you decide to go behind this paywall like how did you decide to do this because i really don't think there's anybody else that could have done it and i'm not blowing smoke up your ass i just don't think i think maybe what dead he could have done it well like ultimately everyone everyone could do it right there's no barrier doing it and i think the only way it kind of works is if you do build up an audience and you create something that people value and then and then you make a for it i mean it's just simple like anything in life like there was enough demand where if i supplied it for you know very minimal minimal barrier to entry of five dollars a month which in this pinball space right that is almost comical uh to charge so little you know for so much content um especially you know when the machines are costing five to fifteen thousand dollars oh But the reason I took it behind the paywall is just it got to a point where and everyone will get there. You're just spending so many hours doing so much work and you literally get nothing out of it other than like the attention, you know. And then I was basically taking so much time away from work, from family, from all this other stuff. And I'm like, look, I think we can create a win win where like everyone who loves the show can still easily get access to it. I get a little bit in my pocket at the end of the month. Not a ton. come live in New York City people see where that money goes oh my god forget it a few dinners and it's gone um but you know and also I I did it to kind of eliminate you know some of the people that were trying to kind of come at me personally and professionally just to you know if you if you hate me cool but now you can hate me and you'll have to pay to hate me because like I wasn't going to just you know keep doing it for free at the height of the free show I think I was somewhere around four to five thousand people listening per episode depending on the topic if i had a guest i'd always get a few more and so the conversion ratio from that number to where i'm at now is i'm really just proud of it because you normally don't get like a 10 conversion ratio when you go behind a paywall it's normally like two to three percent so i think it's just created a win-win-win and i'm happy about it i think the fans love it i'm still doing the free stuff on facebook every Saturday and throughout the week. I love your Facebook lives. I really like it. A lot of people say that that's actually the best content. And I enjoy it as a content creator because there's no editing. There's no notes. It's just sit down and I get up in 90 minutes and I'm done. And I feel like it's more personal because I'm looking at everybody and we're talking heart to heart, not just about pinball, but life. And you see the show goes in a lot of different directions every week and I truly enjoy that. I have like hosts, Chris. So I have people that can sit with me and that I can bounce things off of. I think skill set to sit there by yourself with chat and kind of keep to a script is difficult to do. Yeah. I think that's a skill set. The people who don't like me would say that I suffer from some mental issues with that ability to like talk to myself for 90 minutes. But look, it's just it's kind of you get into a rhythm, though, again, like over time, it's you know, some people have said, like, it's kind of like you're doing a 90 minute podcast. But I don't know. It's just easy to go around the pinball horn. And because there's like usually 70 to 100 people live with me, you know, I get to just react, bounce stuff off of them and, you know, have a good time. I mean, it's it's a lot of fun. And it is it is hard. I mean, not everybody can do it.
    13:19
    And there are days where I don't really want to do it for 90 minutes. You know, there's some where the news is slim. But Brenda is the best. So my wife is the main reason I do all of this, because she's like, we schedule our lives and our family around that time. And there's so many times like we want to go do something. And she's like, you've got to do your Saturday show. And so it's great. And if I didn't have a partner that supported all of this, never would happen. No, you got to have a team, right? Because one of the great things about Janine, who I've been with since college in Florida, was she knows that this is just like a little bit inside of me, Chris, that I just want to do this. Like I grew up in Long Island. I heard Howard Stern on WNBC and I said, well, that's right. That's that was it. I was like, yeah, yeah. and I never fulfilled that. And the podcast and then the stream, it just scratches that itch from me. Yeah. And it just lets me do this. I don't give a shit who's listening or watching or anything anymore. I've gotten to the point where I don't care. Right, right. I just want to have good pinball content, make people laugh, and have fun. And as long as I'm having fun, we're going to continue to do this. As long as we're not having fun, Then we'll just shut the stream down and just allow people to come in three days a month. Yeah, yeah. Look, I always say it. If you're not enjoying it, and again, because take it from someone who's making a little bit of money, it would not be worth it. If it becomes too stressful or you feel like it's work, you'll just stop doing it. The reason I love it, too, in working in a creative industry like I do, it's the only thing I can create where I don't have to ask permission to see my creation come to life. When I work on my professional job, I'm taking ideas to clients, to coworkers, and I'm told no nine out of ten times. Sure. I have to talk to lawyers. I have to do this. We have to work within budget. But I can sit down in my pajamas and rant about Elton John pinball for 30 minutes and no one can tell me nothing They can tell me i not allowed to say that they can tell me when i want to upload it so it just you know it it liberating and i think everybody needs that creative outlet and that why i love pinball you know whether you're a tournament player or a collector or a content creator it's given us all like a little bit of a way to free some of that inner child in us you know that we all need to to wake up happy every day yeah i i'm impressed with how you deal with trolls though well because i am that's why you know i just i can't i can't go on pin side i can't because i can't either nobody knows who the hell i am anyway so that pisses me off right and then and then they're like it's so our best thing we've done is we did the Labyrinth videos, right? And God bless Barrels of Fun, and they've been a really good partner, and they love us, and we love them. But it was too fucking dark, okay? The video was too dark. I know it's too dark. I know it. I don't need Pinside to tell me it's too fucking dark, okay? And then every time I go there, they're showing how dark it is. They're telling me there's four fucking pages of how dark it is. And I went into a tizzy and then janine's just like i'm having angina i'm going bananas jeans like stop this what what are you reading yeah yeah yeah oh well a it was too dark and b bo and karen's what puts me to sleep when he talks about rule sets and so like the the thing is is like the thing the way to deal with pin side and this is i've always believed this is just picture those guys in their underwear, like drinking heavily and typing away at their keyboards while they're eating Cheetos. And that's it. Like, you know, you ever notice that most of those guys that are the hyper users, the most critical, the most prevalent, they don't even show up to their own shows. Like Iceman lives in Texas. I've never seen him at TPF once. You know, it's there's comfort in And how Pinside kind of protects people from kind of standing in front of their comments. And that's why when I do the lives, I'm very in front of the camera, right? So I want to be cognizant. It's why even like on my podcast, I don't curse. I don't curse because I know kids listen. It's all right. No, but I don't curse because people have told me that their kids listen. I stopped saying the Lord's name in vain because I had some listeners that were very religious. And they're like, Chris, can you stop saying God? You know, like, God damn. And I was like, and I'm like, well, sure. Like, that doesn't change. It doesn't change any of, like, the impact, you know, of my statements if I just do that. And it's funny, too, when people say I'm the most negative, when I actually, like, one of the most PG-friendly shows there is in the entire content space.
    18:29
    So that's it. Well, listen, you've got fans and you've got listeners. and viewers and all this, and they're giving you feedback, and they're saying it in a nice way. That's nice. Okay, I can do that. I can work on that. You know what's interesting to you? I always think about this is everyone's just a person, everybody, whether it's me, whether it's you, whether it's Axel Rose, whether it's the President of the United States. And the ability, if you just reach out to people to change the dialogue and the tone and the vibe. And even as I talk about pinball companies, I'm always surprised that so few of them even just like reach out to be like hey we want to tell you our strategy on elton john and what it was like making that like just and never you know and if there was like this lunatic in new york just like spewing out all this stuff about pinball all the time and i was a company or manufacturer um i probably want to maybe build a bridge and that's what's interesting is the more they isolate me on an island which they've done the more popular the shows become the more relevant And it's become and I think the more trust people have in it because, you know, they know that I'm not going to hold back because of special interest or agendas or because I'm trying to look out for a said company. I'm kind of just I like just looking out for the for the customer and the community members and the buyers because someone has to.
    19:54
    I, I am fascinated with how you get these scoops. I'm fascinated with it. Well, you obviously had to build the relationships. No one can just get these scoops without building relationships and building trust with these people, right? You can't be – Well, here's why I get the scoops. It's so simple, Jamie. People know stuff.
    20:14
    They don't want to burn their reputation or their relationship with the manufacturers or the people that told them this stuff. But they know I will. So they will – all they do is send it to me. And they're like, you know, I just heard a scoop yesterday that Stern has the license. This is going to be the first time someone hears it has the license to make Journey Pinball. And because someone was talking at IAPA and had loose lips, the same way I knew that Keith Elwin was doing the single level James Bond is someone at Stern confided in someone who's a heavy Stern purchaser that there was going to be a fourth edition of James Bond. And, you know, and what does that person do? I'm not going to out them. They hit me up and be like, hey, Chris, I'm going to give you the greatest scoop ever. Nobody knows it. And that was my favorite scoop ever, because even John at Jack Bar was like, nobody believes this. This is not happening. If it happens, I'm going to have to join your club and give you five dollars a month. And it was beautiful because it was just like just sit back, popcorn. And I will say, like, I want to plug Jason Knapp, because I think now the scoop master is Knapp's Arcade. and Jason's incredible and his site is like, because it went, his site evolved. Like there was a time when he didn't want to really put up rumors or speculation because I think he wanted to respect a company's ability to announce it themselves. But he's now since become, I think, a much more interesting page because he's putting up the rumors he's hearing and the speculation.
    21:43
    And I also love Jason's site because it takes a lot of work off my shoulders. So like, cause you could just read it and then you have like a show to talk about because, you know, Naps Arcade is going to keep everybody up to speed every week on what's happening. I really liked talking to him. We had all these pictures for behind the scenes and, you know, no one really knows us that well. So I was like, you know what, let me throw these to Nap. Let me see if he wants to do anything with them. Yeah. And he was really kind. And I said, look, some of them are dark. Okay. I'm just going to be honest with you. Some of them are dark. But, you know, we had the commercial that Aaron did, and Aaron's one of our ladies here. She's phenomenal. Does some stuff for Wormhole and her own thing called Learning to Flip. There's a little plug for Aaron. But anyway, I like Nap. He's done a really good job. I enjoy him. He's definitely on my favorites on Facebook. Yeah, and now you don't have to go to Pinside anymore, like, to find the stuff. And I think that's why it's so important that we have, like, you know, I think NAPS took over where This Week in Pinball started. I mean, it's the go-to site for news. And now, you know, you can jump in. Pinside is good for the buyers clubs. It's good for solving problems. It's good for the mod community. It's good for the marketplace. Like, all that stuff is good. It's just they announced like a year ago, Jamie, or two years ago that they were going to go and purge like the 30 truly toxic members that just derail every threat. Right. And they never did it. They never did. There's only two people that I think have a permanent lifetime ban. It's myself and Hilton Wiseno, who used to be, who was very active for many years back in the day. I feel an honor. How did they reach out to you and go, you're out? Like, it was, you know, like it was a series of things. But the main, the post that did it, like the straw that broke the camel's back was, I was at Jack Bar and it was right when Hobbit came out and the Hobbit ramp broke. And I took a picture of it being like some quality disc machine. And like, that was it. It was just like, you're blocked and you're banned. And then it was funny because I got banned, but they still allowed people to share my links to the show after my, because I got banned, then I made the podcast. And for a while, they allowed people to discuss my show and talk about me. Then they banned people's ability to even mention my name so if you said my name you were like um you know you got moderated basically i want to take it like fanatically to like yeah it's it's they've eased up since then and you know robin's a good guy like he created a phenomenal site that brought the people together like without pin side as much as it has its like issues it really is the the main thing that has kept the community going over the last 10 years more than the companies they and it's it is interesting right jamie like how little the companies do to create community because they know like other people will do it for them you know and i think stern's the only one that i feel like really hasn't with the army they really have an effort to bring their you know their buyers and their fans together i don't see that with anybody else there's no like jersey jack like you know like club, like doing, you know, so, but yeah, to go back to your original question, though, the way, the best way to deal with the trolls is just, and this is what they can't figure out, just ignore them. So hard. I've spent so much money on my therapist trying to figure that out. Way too much money. Yeah. So which part do you like? Do you, you know, you mentioned the breaking, do you like breaking the news? Or do you like just talking about the machines? Do you like just engaging what what's your favorite yeah um you know i love my favorite thing to do is to have a is to break title rumors like or to spoil if you will yeah the themes that are coming out i just love it because i love it because i don't think that these themes should be secret like i know grand theft auto is coming out i know what the movies are coming out next year why is it a secret right themes are coming out and we know why is because the only game they want you to buy is the game that's on the line and what i would what i would in this and this is what annoyed me too about that's interesting perspective and there's a there's a good old boy club in pinball where those guys know what's coming down the line like you know designers at stern will talk to their buddies who talk to their buddies and then you know i get it like they're all colluding to keep this information secret, but I don't think that's fair. Like, why should those people know that Matrix is coming next from Jersey Jack while I'm about to maybe buy an Elton John? So if I know what's coming down the road, I think it's beneficial for everybody but the FOMO that these manufacturers want. But here's the thing. If we know every theme coming over the next year, it puts pressure on the manufacturers to make sure they get great themes that it doesn't matter that you know it's coming like you know jamie because i told the world that back to the future is coming from dutch pinball yeah it doesn't matter they're going to sell every single one and then some when that comes to fruition because it's just that kind of theme unless it's back to the future three only not it's going to be based on one and two so the the thing is um if i told you that Stern's making Dungeons and Dragons, all of a sudden you're like, you know, if I told you Stern's making like, I don't know, like, pick a theme that's like, I don't know, Foo Fighters was like that. I think they did a good job with it, but if you heard like, oh, they're gonna make Nickelback, like, you'd be like, you know, and I think that's what, you know, they don't like is, you know, is us sort of like developing in power against FOMO. And this is this has been my point of view for the last year of like wait and see and why by now, if we all learn how to combat the FOMO that these companies have been creating over the last like 10 years and and most of the content creators are trying to create the FOMO because they're benefiting their friends who are distributors. It will liberate us because it will force these companies to make games that are so good that like it better be good because if we don't have FOMO, we're not going to run at Venom. We're not going to run at every single like new anniversary edition Stern puts out into the world. We're going to wait until we absolutely see something that speaks to us that we want to own. Now, for your friend who has 150 machines and, you know, if you have a ton of money, men with money to burn, FOMO doesn't even matter. Like, you know, you just get what you want. Like you get what you want. You can buy a pinball machine like you're ordering a glass of wine. It doesn't matter. and I don't begrudge anyone who has that kind of purchasing power. I think it's great. This hobby wouldn't survive if it wasn't for a lot of wealthy men who want to turn their homes into arcades. I mean that is half of this hobby.
    28:55
    What do you think about all those – you mentioned cul-de-sac buddies that got into the pinball and I'm one of them because Tim brought me over there and he lived on a cul-de-sac and he brought me over and I thought that really tickled me. funny that was such a good line that you know we've kind of raised the prices i mean it was supply and demand we came in and now we're seeing it come back down uh yeah yeah i mean look it's the you know like pinball is not a a cancer drug that we just need to get to as many people as we possibly can right who are suffering all over the world this whole notion that we need to expand the love of pinball at all costs is just it's kind of funny to me because pinball is doing just fine like it is doing just fine and what's happened is through covid right everyone got bored a lot of people were looking at their empty basements and they had that fifteen thousand dollars they spent on the family vacation was just sitting there the recession never came and so you were just oh wow like this is a thing like like when we watched don like like the way he caught the bug everyone's gone through that journey of like, I didn't even realize this is a thing. I now know it. It's very relatable. I grew up during the period of arcades and pinball machines and, and there's a community. And now I have a sense of belonging. And now I, you know, I have a new identity. Every man and woman who gets into pinball, they almost have this new identity within the community. Right. And it's so much fun. The, the problem now is right is there is just a lot more people that want this stuff. And so the demand goes up. The problem with the prices now, though, is the manufacturer is overshot. Yeah. They went too far and they've priced every game as if it was like that one of 10 that are available in the marketplace for 3000 more than it came out for. And now we're going to make a thousand of them that price. That's the problem is externally. We used to joke for years that the highest it would get to was ten thousand dollars by Christmas Now that the price of the Stern premium I know And a Stern Godzilla LE was which was where they should have stopped it and let some value go to the customer But now 1,000 Venoms at $13,000, it's just not going to work. It's not sustainable. And now the men and women who are buying these things at MSRP, they open the box chain and they've lost $3,000 in two months. there is no way i don't care how big your house is on how many cul-de-sacs that your partner your wife or you even you want to wake up and be like why did i do this why did i rush and buy it when i can have the same game if i just waited two months i would have saved myself three thousand dollars you know the first one i saw about this that would have pissed me off if i was a collector was the Jurassic Park one. The 30th anniversary edition? Piss me off. A viral right on top of it? That doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, and then Stranger Things Premium rerun at the same time, and then you also, you know, the James Bond 60th was like the moon-headed.
    32:11
    It's been a bad year. Yeah, it is very interesting. Tim, when Tim buys machines, especially new ones, they have to talk to him. The theme has to talk to him. Venom didn't talk to him, so he didn't buy Venom. Okay, fine. I'm not going to bash Venom. I love Mark Tremonti. He's a dude. He's sat right here. We opened the wormhole for him. But if that machine doesn't talk to you, it doesn't talk to you. Whatever.
    32:43
    It's like Stern's problem now, and I think they're more vulnerable than people think because they have to keep this big line going and they have to have distributors absorb what they manufacture. And they're not used to the soft response to a game like Venom. You know, Foo Fighters did fine. I think Foo Fighters probably exceeded their expectations. But if they don't, now that they're in this big factory, if they don't get distros to like take all of those thousands of games and thousands of premiums and 1,000 LEs and then all the pros, they've got these distros basically. They're like the mafia. The distro has to buy their allotment or they lose their allotment on the next game or it diminishes. So if you want Elwynn's Jaws, you've got to take these Venoms. But the problem they're facing is every Venom that's going to sit unsold now for years is going to eat away at any money they're going to make off the Jaws sales. And then the big thing is this, Jamie, it's only a matter of time before Stern starts selling more direct to customer. Like, why are they even passing on? I saw you say that the other day, and I was just thinking of like, back in the day, it is like a mafia. It really is. And why wouldn't they use this model that their competitors are doing? and and and an error where demand far outweighs supply for all these years the only you know look distros are your sales force but do you need a sales force to sell you like a keith elwyn game now or are more people knocking on the door to get it do you need a sales force to sell um you know back to the future the thing is that there's still a need for distros because these things break down and you know much like a car dealership like service and whatnot and a lot of people you know these newbies in the cul-de-sacs they can't if they were to set up a machine it would fall on them they would break their neck like they don't know what they're doing like that you know the moment they lift their first play field the balls are flying everywhere like they don't a light goes out the game that light stays out for years like it's the way it goes but um you know but i do think we're gonna have to i do think the distros are gonna have to get together and put pressure on these manufacturers to ease up like if you have a b theme we can't price it like it's back to the future. Like, it's just not going to work. Or the games are going to sit, you know, and that's just where it's at. And then, you know, to answer your other question, too, I just love talking about this side of pinball so much, too, because it's a speculative market. Unlike other collectibles like watches or cars, there's not much product to understand. You know, if you try to get into watch collecting, there's thousands of watches out there in the world. I got into it for about 10 minutes and that was it. Yeah. You couldn't even – like I love my tag. But I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of like I don't know how the mechanism in this thing works. I don't really care. Like it's a piece of jewelry that men wear is my only – as far as I'll go with what. But in pinball, in just a short period of time, Jamie, you will know every company, every product they have. Right. And you can catch up quickly. Like it doesn't take long. It didn't take me very long. You're right. It didn't take me very long. And you can get your head around the whole hobby pretty quickly. And I think that's why it's fun too for people because in a short period of time, you can jump in. And look, for all these dudes with disposable income, it's still a lot cheaper than watch collecting and car collecting and all this other stuff. And it's experiential. A watch, like it just tells time. Like my phone does that. Like it doesn't make the experience any better when I have it on. And you hit that nail on the head a little while ago when you were talking about like growing up, especially in New York and Long Island, I would ride my bike to a pizza joint and they had a Tempest. Right. So I would just jump quarters in the Tempest. Right. And I just didn't play pinball because I sucked at it. but when Tim got me into it and started bringing me back, you know, to his house in 2018, it was a very simple, and especially competitive pinball for me because I was a really good golfer. So the competitive edge to me that I can whip people's ass and learn this game and get my ass kicked, that really.
    37:15
    It opens up. It really did. And it's much like golf. It's, you know, in golf, it's you against the course. yeah and you can it's you against the machine and you can enjoy pinball you know every day solo like much like you can go out and golf solo and have a great time where you know arcade and video games like most of them it's not the same like it's you're just you're just studying the pattern of the code and it's always like donkey kong's always the same like you know it's not going to get fresh um no it's good you know i i need to get my pinball skills up a little bit You know, like jokingly, Jamie, I don't even have a machine set up. And that's – You live in New York. How are you going to have a machine set up? Yeah, well, my thing now is with Killian, I can set up a machine or two in the apartment, but he'll destroy it. Like, and I've got – How old is he? He's two – he'll be three in February. Awesome. So, you know, you know that age if you have any children. I have a 24 and a 21-year-old, but we have a grandchild from a 24-year-old now. He's six weeks old, so he's not too shy. Oh, congrats. Yeah. But you know, they're little monsters at that age.
    38:21
    He would take it in a permanent marker to the side of my Batman SLE, and that would be it. I'd be staring at Batman with a mustache. That's not what you want to do. No, no. So we're going to wait until we get it. We're house hunting right now.
    38:36
    Are you going to stay in the city, or are you going to go on? No, we're going to go. We're looking in suburbs of something off of the Grand Central line, so Westchester, Connecticut. and yeah so you know that's why also it's easy for me to wait and see on pinball because housing market is ridiculous and you know there it is the optics of me buying a pinball machine to my wife right now aren't good so well i'm very lucky that i have a very best friend that is an avid collector so yeah you know it doesn't really make sense for me to buy machines when absolutely i always tell this to people too it's like don't buy the machine convince your next door neighbor to you know it's such a such a smart man does that with his money let him get let him get the venom and try it out see what he thinks uh so i heard that you saw the art on jaws is that true i did not see it i have spoken to someone who do have seen it and they were underwhelmed and surprised that that would be the le artwork the supposedly it is the image of the woman swimming in the ocean okay and louis well it's like if you look at the it's on the movie poster right yeah with the buoy and the truck yeah and it looks like yeah and she's kind of naked i think they kind of yeah they kind of hide her privates a little bit with the waves and and then i don't know if jaw and then jaws is sort of coming up underneath her now now a pinball cabinet i don't know if that's what it's going to look like and be mostly blue i heard it's a big image of her swimming so like we'll see what they do i also another scoop for you on this show is i heard that um i heard that this might be the first keith owen game with an upper play field wow so what would you do up there so i think you do the ship like much like the caribbean that i mean why not like make your version of it that rocks but make it better and also can you imagine if they did the ship and it like like starts to sink as that god is the shark comes down on it what was the name like it just starts to take on the boat it's the orca right oh it is the orca it is the orca yeah you're probably right it's the orca there's also a bigger boat yeah a shark fin that pops up from under the play field there's going to be three yellow barrels that you shoot you had to have the yellow barrels right if they didn't do the yellow barrels that's a mistake i'm shocked they're not the pop bumpers but we'll see how they function apparently you bash them and then they lower and then that opens up a shot directly to jaws you had to have the yellow yeah yeah that's a must-have jaws is going to be very interesting if if it's devoid of the assets because the movie is so like about the characters more shark and so if they don't have roger in there i don't know how you do jaws without roy schneider you know i have to have roy schneider and i've got a roy schneider story for you do you want to hear my roy schneider story yes let's do it i worked at ripley's believe it or not yeah orlando florida when i moved to there and roy schneider came into the ripley's believe it or not and i was in the front and i he was filming a tv show uh a submarine show in orlando back in the 90s it was some bullshit submarine show right So he comes in and I said, hey, Mr. Schneider, I'm a big fan of Jaws. I love you very much. Thank you so much. Welcome to the – believe it or not. Can you say I think we need a bigger boat? Yeah. Can I hear you say it? He goes, no. He grabbed the – I don't think he says that in the movie. Isn't that – doesn't Dreyfus say it? I don't know who says it. I don't – that's probably why. I don't even know. Maybe that's why. He's like some 18-year-old idiot. His iconic line is the smile, you son of a bitch. Smile, you son of a bitch. That is the line. You know what's crazy? I have a Richard Dreyfuss story that's strange. I never met him, but when I did my bedroom arcade and I lost my fiancé, there was a big feature story in Wired Magazine about it, and the writer is Emily Dreyfuss, who's Richard Dreyfuss' daughter, a writer for Wired Magazine, which is just a small world. now it comes full circle but yeah i mean are you um is jaws a theme jamie that you're excited about i am i'm definitely excited about jaws i was excited about uh back to the future when you guys broke that that one man you could screw that up but if it's really great and if it's you know you you don't put the third movie in i think it's going to be a really good yeah it's another one where you need michael j fox right it's like absolutely it's the same thing i like if you're gonna do matrix you need cano reeves like you except the last matrix that fourth matrix movie did you watch that it's terrible but i heard jersey jack is it's primarily matrix one which is good good that's all you need right like you can't do top gun without tom cruise and tom cruise won't give you his likeness so you can't you just can't make it like it's not worth doing.
    43:48
    But yeah, I mean, it's going to be a really interesting 2024 for pinball. I'm excited about it because with prices being where they're at, it's like home run or go home. Like these games have to crush it or like we're all just going to be content with what we have. And that's OK. You know, and that's that's not a message that the distributors want you to hear or the manufacturers that maybe you could just be happy with what you have until something really. Sometimes you have to have a reset. Sometimes you have to reset the market.
    44:20
    We're seeing that more across everything, whether it's pinball, luxury brands. The world's changing. The never-ending consumption of things you don't need, people are starting to realize the diminishing returns on it. To wake up happy, you should fill your life with experiences that are memorable and magical. And like, you know, if you have 10 good pinball machines, number 11 is not going to be the thing, you know, that changes your life at all. I never understood the topper fascination. Do you understand that? I don't. Well, that's I think the topper fascination was born because the machines themselves became increasingly underwhelming that we looked for something to like just because the toppers became exclusive.
    45:08
    Right. So the world of collectors where it feels like everybody's got the same thing, but I've got the Ghostbuster topper and you don't. I've got the Black Knight topper and you don't. Is the topper part of the game, which is kind of weird too, like the new Cactus Canyon? You can't. You never look up that high. I mean, there's a cool topper in Batman. It's got the spotlight. It goes off. But I'd never notice it because you're looking down. I think the problem with the topper price spike is Stern manufactured it all. Like, if they had just made Ghostbuster toppers easy to get, like, there's no reason why they – Yeah, I'll source it. Yeah. But they just – and then they know people want it, and then they didn't make more. So then all you're doing is just – and then what happens when they do make more Ghostbuster toppers to all the dudes now who spent, like, $3,000 to $5,000 on one? Yeah. Like the Black Knight topper, people were spending $3,000 to $4,000 on one. Now you can go get one for $1,500, which is still $1,000 more than it used to be, which I'm not happy about. But now they just screwed over all those dudes who thought they were never making any more. The thing about Stern is they've never come out and ever said we're never making any more. Even if they launch an LE like we all know now that means nothing And they got to be careful on that because now They do Because especially avid collectors who are buying the LEs right Because you don see a ton of LEs at an arcade No. They're putting pros in there. Yeah. Right? So the LEs, what's the LE market? Right. Yeah. It's home collectors. I mean, they're pissing that market off. An LE with a premium in existence, an LE on location makes no sense whatsoever. Like, no sense. Because even think about if you're an operator, I'm not going to get more plays because I've got an LE over a premium, right? It's not the same exact game. Same exact game. It's different art. Yeah. And I now need to have 3,000 more plays on this machine to break even. Like, why would I spend 3,000 more? And also, like, a premium almost makes no sense. just throw a freaking you know these these operators are getting deals on their pros because they buy everyone most of them you buy a pro for 5700 you throw it in the damn you know arcade you make your two to three thousand plays on it maybe more right then use for like four thousand dollars like and you're good like you've made your money on it and for some of these you know newer games you know they might get like over five thousand plays you know maybe more i mean it's it's not a bad business john uh who's the gm of the wormhole has bought a bunch of pros and he put them on location throughout houston and there's an app where he can see the credit card how many i don't know what it's called whatever that's awesome pretty that's pretty awesome right and he could see that his rush is doing very well here but the l virus not doing very well over there and it's it's it's that's pretty neat that's fun yeah I mean, I've thought about potentially operating in New York. New York's weird. Like, there's not much pinball here. Like, we've got Jack Bar. Sunshine is done. Like, they've only got four machines now. Oh, that's sad. Isn't that sad? I mean, it was a death trap. I mean, I used to go in there, and it was like, have you been there? It's like. No, Tim's been there. There was like 25 machines, no exit, in this, like, POW camp back area of this laundromat. Right. And I was there once when there was a fire in the laundromat area and they had to like open like a hatch in the floor to like escort us through like the basement to get out. I'm like this. There is no way this place is fire code like approved at all. Right. Yeah. Now it's yeah. Now it's just gone. Like there's that though. Yeah. Well, like but the thing is, is like, you know, New York City is so expensive. So if you want to make money in a bar environment, the last thing you're going to do is load up a bunch of pinball machines where you could have something else. Yeah, well, you need space for people. It's so small, the bars. Yeah. That makes sense. The barcades are crushing it, you know, because it's more like, I don't know, it's funny watching all these NYU kids who didn't grow up with these video games, like just Bud and Mash on, you know, 90s arcade machines at Barcade in St. Mark's. And, you know, there's a few pinball machines there. But, you know, you make a lot more money off the video games. We have this Cidercade here throughout Texas. I don't know where they are, but I just don't like cider. Yeah.
    49:56
    Yeah, I'm not a fan either. Too much sugar. Too much sugar, man. I can't eat that crap. I'm trying to lose weight. I go to Barcade. It's like a crap beer place. I order, you know, Tito's on the rocks. There you go. What kind of game are you looking forward to playing? What new one in 2024? I can't wait to see Jaws. I can't wait to see. Elwin is just on a different level. He's on like a supernal level. He is. The team is so good.
    50:22
    I hope it's not ugly. I think he's going to bring some magic. I do. I can't wait to see Matrix from Jersey Jack. I really want Jersey Jack to turn the corner. I don't think Elton John is that game. I think Richie just brought over another one of his generic designs, and they stuck a piano in it, and that's that. But now that Jersey Jack's got the flipper feel down and the games are shooting better, Matrix with Jersey Jack light show to me, like, damn. That has such potential if they don't mess it up. I think American Pinball is sort of just treading water. We're getting a galactic tank force. I mean, my condolences. but kirsteen hood likes it and uh she got it and we're getting one any day now which version uh the top of the line one did you get the seventeen thousand dollar one with the thermos and the lunchbox or did you get i don't think we got a thermos and a lunchbox i know it folds and it looks like a tank yeah look like so that's like yeah you got the le so there's like the le then there's the signature one that is like 17.5 with like a 3d translate and a thermos and a lunchbox. When we get it in here, I'll send you a picture and you'll see which one we got. It's a weird game. I get what they were going for. The tank part is unique. It is.
    51:44
    I don't know anything bad about it because I only played it once in TPF and we kind of dug it. The thing about it, Jamie, is with all the three years in the making of that game, I was just expecting more. I was expecting more mechanical cool stuff in it and like it's just not there like the and then you've got this tank like right up the middle like close to the flippers like too close you're just bricking off the thing and i you know and that's and then that cow hanging from dental floss and like i you know it's like i i don't know is this the best we can do dennis norman after you made games like white water and you made you know stuff with you know he made a myra like freaking out i know i think It's interesting to see their model now.
    52:30
    You could talk about this more than me, but non-license versus license. I get why you wouldn't make a license game because it costs a lot of money.
    52:39
    Labyrinth comes out and they went with a license because they can make more money. Think about it like this. They have a license theme, Jim Henson, and they still didn't sell $1,100. right i mean it's like with a license right you're gonna go unlicensed just imagine how few you're gonna sell and you know i i think barrels of fun i will say this you know so i'm not saying this because i'm friends with blake and you know and i respected the party over there they they did it right and i think they're gonna i think they're really gonna you know pick themes that are gonna be the right kinds of themes for a company that really only needs to sell around a thousand units They're going to find niche, like, you know, cult classic films, if you will, make a fun pinball experience. And then, you know, what I like about it, I think we're reaching a point now where, like, it's just everyone, it feels like everyone has every stern. Like, it's like nothing feels special and unique. Like, you know, it's like these boutiques have always, I think, you know, they've underdelivered to the collector space who really is craving for that scarcity, that exclusivity, that unique pinball experience.
    53:55
    You know, Dutch brought in so much hope 10 years ago with it. Yeah. Spooky, you know, keeps getting better. But it's good. It's good to have barrels versus spooky versus Dutch now. and these boutiques because we know that, Jamie, they can't make $5,000 a year like Stern can. No, they don't have the warehouses. Which is good. It's good. Yeah, it is good.
    54:18
    I'm going out later tonight. I got my untied bow tie. People are wondering. I don't normally rock this like... I want to have it tied. I felt like I would catch more flack, but I'm going to a theater show tonight and I think when you go to the theater on Broadway you should dress accordingly. I hate going to Broadway. There's a traveling MJ show came to Houston and I saw that. Have you seen the Michael Jackson? I haven't seen it yet, no. Because it's playing at Broadway. It was really, really good. The thing about Broadway, you should dress nice. Should be wearing a wormhole.
    54:55
    There's nothing worse than going out to a dinner in a theater and everyone is just in jeans and a t-shirt.
    55:03
    People dress up on cruise ships more than they do like in Times Square. And it's kind of a similar vibe. Like a cruise ship is like Times Square on the ocean, you know. And I'm always amazed when you take a cruise how formal it becomes at night. And when people forget to bring, you know, some nicer threads, you feel underdressed. But you can – Cruise ships are good for you because as your son gets older, you can stay in the daycare all night until 2 in the morning and your wife – It's great. You know, and as my mama says, you can never be overdressed. oh that's nice my father didn't say that to me so my parents didn't say that all right so listen uh i don't want to take any more of your time it's been great man what a great conversation uh we didn't get controversial you know there's no we're not i think there's a perception about you that it's just wrong and uh i wanted to interview you and i was just like look i'm a recruiter i interview 10 to 15 people a day. We're going to have a nice conversation. And, you know, I had a disclaimer that I wrote, right? In case we went off the rails, I didn't even use it one time. Well, I'm not drinking. My haters would say, like, throw some whiskey in him. But you know what?
    56:17
    Look, you're having fun. And then if you do something wrong and you apologize, why don't people accept apologies anymore? World's changed. No one forgives anybody anymore. One and done culture. It is that. it really is i can't tell you how many how many emails to jeng is like really bro come on like i took the piss out of you for three minutes and and you're gonna like not get over it come on like especially as like grown men even amongst your friend set like i don't know like people get in like spats and feuds especially when you're drinking and you're just going back and forth like but i think it's the new yorker in us because we're ball busters and we grew up I think probably. I feel like. We know. I know. I think we're both aware enough to know, being in some sales, that when we're crossing the line and when we go, okay, my bad. Okay. No. And when I cross the line, you know, I know it and I feel bad, you know. And I think what's happening in culture today is people don't want to accept apologies because they don't want you to feel good. Like they don't want to relieve you of your, you know, your pain around the pain you caused. Yeah. So they want you to just. Yeah, they want to just remain. Hold it over you. Yes. Look, I mean, it's it's fine. But I do believe, as you know, as Tupac said, what thug life means on his chest is the hate, you know, the hate you give does live inside forever. And, you know, and you don't want to, like, live with the anger, though. Also, even if you're the victim of someone's vitriol, ultimately, if they're like, hey, man, I'm sorry, let's move on.
    57:57
    People forgive murderers, but no one will forgive me. I know. It's just like we have at the wormhole one rule, and it's a strict no-ahole policy. Right. When you walk through this door, okay, I don't care what religion, race, anything you are, everyone's accepted in this joint. But if you don't do that, you're out. And we've kicked people out. We've kicked two people out, and one I don't feel bad about. The other, you know, we're on a probation, and maybe we'll bring them back. But we forgive. They made a mistake. They drink too much. They had a little too fun. How can – I just don't understand, and Colin, I doubt you're going to listen to this, but, dude, the guy's won six Twippies in a row. I think if the Twippy means anything. Yeah. well he's not gonna be too happy after he sees what did you see what i put up on my facebook i got lit up because of people know that i'm interviewing you so like you gotta watch this morning and i was effing with the stream to make sure it looked good and sounded good and then i was reading you and watching you this morning you hold him the six the six the item well and then yeah i grabbed the image of his panel discussion at expo and it's just like an empty room he's talking to but look ultimately colin's new to this as well and he's getting his feet wet in it and again you just he needs to learn from people who are doing it and doing it well and not take this like contrarian hardline stance that he's taking i mean i get it i get it i wasn't even going to go to the damn media mixer but just you i should be on the invite if you But then he's like ready to call the cops. I mean, the cops, cops are there to protect people from like violent crimes, domestic violence. You're going to call the Chicago. I have all the emails. You're going to call the Chicago PD if I show up to a pinball show. I didn't get invited.
    59:58
    Well, we can hang it at the wormhole when I visit. How close are you guys to TPF? Yeah, four hours. OK, well, maybe I'll do the Houston Arcade Expo. So that's the deal, right? So we'll get Blake. Blake will get you in, right? Make a new room. And then you can come to the wormhole and hang out here. And then when the museum comes, you're going to have to come because the place is going to be ridiculous. Absolutely. Well, we'll do like a champagne toast to the opening of it. And we should do like a ribbon cutting, you know, like when we're going to. So I would love to have you there for that. I think that would be really, really cool. Yeah. Because if you know anything about Tim and Christine Hood, it's not going to be the Pinball Museum in Vegas. No offense to that. No. I mean, the place is, yeah, it earns its reputation. Let's just say that. It sure does. I got a great story about that lady in there. All right. Well, let's do this again. I mean, this is fun. Yeah, I would love to do it again, and thank you so much. And then, you know, you have just done a really good job, and I'm really impressed with what you're doing. And anyone, you know where to find Kaneda. You know where to see him. You know where to go, okay? You've got to subscribe. You've got to go to Patreon and all that great stuff. Are you a subscriber?
    61:10
    No, I'm not yet. There it is. You're in sales, and you just gave me the best sales pitch. But then, you know, all right, join the club. You got to join. I'm going to. Here's the deal. You join the club. I will be at next expo in Houston, and I'll come to the wormhole, and I'll come to the museum opening. You're going to get a notification in the next 10 minutes that I joined Patreon. Love it. Hey, Chris, thank you so, so much. What a great – it was just a pleasure. I really appreciate your time, man. Thank you. Thank you to Blake and everyone.
    61:39
    And you can check us out. We're going to put this on both our YouTube so you can watch it. And then also on all the areas that you can get podcasts. And maybe I can win new podcasts. Yeah, this could be it. Well, maybe we'll throw some votes your way. And yeah, I'll share this with everybody on my sites. Oh, awesome. All right. So I'll get a link and I'll send it to you, okay? So you can download it as well. Awesome. Thanks, Jamie. Thanks, man. I really appreciate your time. Thanks, brother. Bye-bye. Thanks. Bye.