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DPP #105 "Birthday Bash! Princess Bride layout impressions!"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·39m 39s·analyzed·Feb 27, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

PB's ABBA machine rumored; Princess Bride P3 layout breakdown and pricing analysis.

Summary

Don discusses upcoming news about Pinball Brothers' product pipeline (likely an ABBA-themed machine based on rumors), reviews Princess Bride gameplay layout impressions for the Multimorphic P3 system, and analyzes pricing ($11,500-$13,750) and design choices around 3D sculpting versus 2D playfield elements. He positions Pinball Brothers in the mid-tier manufacturer space and reflects on production cost trade-offs between injection-molded sculpts and 3D-printed components.

Key Claims

  • Pinball Brothers is likely bringing an ABBA-themed pinball machine, possibly as a result of partnership with a European music licensing deal

    medium confidence · Don cites Paris Pinball Addict reporting and describes ABBA as 'the European licensed music license that's supposed to be coming out from the Pinball Brothers'

  • Pinball Brothers will have a new game ready relatively soon, likely within the year

    medium confidence · Don states 'they do have a new game coming relatively soon, like this year is kind of the sense that I get. Of course, nothing substantiated'

  • Pinball Brothers just completed partnership with an Italian production facility

    high confidence · Don directly states 'they just partnered with these folks in Italy for a brand new production facility'

  • Alien Ripley Edition was a stopgap/repackaging measure to generate business while new products are in development

    medium confidence · Don interprets the Ripley edition release as 'a stopgap measure because I know they have some more products that are coming out'

  • The Alien topper is delayed by Disney licensing approval, not production issues

    high confidence · Don confirms 'it's in licensing hell right now... the licensor has to approve it. That licensor is Disney'

  • Princess Bride P3 module playfield lacks three-dimensional sculpts compared to Barrels of Fun games like Labyrinth

    high confidence · Don's detailed comparison: 'What it's missing, though, is any kind of three-dimensionality' and contrasts with Barrels' 'sculpted 3D villages in Labyrinth'

  • Injection-molded sculpts for pinball games require $100,000+ in tooling costs for low production runs (1,000 units)

    medium confidence · Don explains tooling economics: 'There's probably six figures just in tooling to make those molds before you even get one sculpt back'

  • Modern 3D-printed playfield elements (FDM printers) can rival injection-molded quality when sanded and painted

Notable Quotes

  • “They will be represented on site though. From somebody from the company. They didn't have enough time to ship any games though.”

    Don @ Early segment — Confirms Pinball Brothers attendance at TPF but reveals they're too busy with unspecified back-factory projects to ship products

  • “I love that idea of I'm launching a ball into the game. Let's get going. Let's vary our speed that we throw it out there. I'm not a fan of launch buttons. I like plungers.”

    Don @ Mid-segment — Design critique of P3 launch button mechanic vs traditional plunger preference—important design philosophy statement about player tactile feedback

  • “ABBA of course sold tons of records back in the 70's, their music is everywhere, everybody knows that license everybody knows the music how you feel about the dancing queen that's up to each individual person, I kind of I kind of can't, it's like knives in my ear when I listen to ABBA music.”

    Don @ Theme discussion segment — Reveals personal skepticism about ABBA theme viability despite mainstream recognition; questions market appeal vs Queen

  • “If you're like me and you haven't quite seen that value, you don't have one. But I will say that if they keep coming out with banger themes like this, if they get four of these together, that would really make people think once or twice or thrice about maybe going in on one of these.”

    Don @ Pricing/value analysis — Identifies theme quality as primary value driver for P3 adoption—customer acquisition depends on software/content library, not hardware

  • “I think Pinball Brothers could be that nice little kind of mid-range there. You know, they're not the big three, but they're doing lights and steams... Pinball Brothers I see as kind of a counterpart as far as scope and scale and production.”

    Don @ Manufacturer positioning — Positions Pinball Brothers as tier-2 manufacturer between Big 3 (Stern/JJP/Spooky) and smaller operators like Haggis/CGC

  • “When you're looking at making, you know, 1,000 pinball machines, though, it's really hard to justify that cost. When we look at Scooby-Doo, that collector's edition has four or five different sculpts in it that were all individually made. There's a lot of money that goes into that.”

Entities

Pinball BrotherscompanyMultimorphiccompanyPrincess BridegameTexas Pinball Festival (TPF)eventAlien Ripley EditiongameQueengame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Pinball Brothers recently partnered with Italian production facility to expand manufacturing capacity

    high · Don directly reports 'they just partnered with these folks in Italy for a brand new production facility'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Pinball Brothers positioned as tier-2/mid-tier manufacturer between Big Three (Stern/JJP/Spooky) and smaller boutiques (Haggis/CGC), comparable in scope to American Pinball

    high · Don states 'Pinball Brothers solidly in that space... They're not the big three, but they're doing lights and steams... I see Pinball Brothers as kind of a counterpart as far as scope and scale'

  • ?

    product_concern: P3 Princess Bride design lacks three-dimensional playfield elements compared to competitors (Barrels of Fun/Labyrinth), potentially limiting immersion and perceived value

    high · Don contrasts: 'What it's missing, though, is any kind of three-dimensionality... everything they have, the castle, the Cliffs of Insanity... are all made with basically stacked and organized plastics'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Multimorphic choosing cost-efficient 2D playfield stacking over injection-molded sculpts to maintain $11,500 price point; 3D printing offered as intermediate solution

    medium · Don analyzes tooling costs ('six figures') and argues P3 could benefit from 3D-printed elements like Turner Pinball's Ninja Eclipse

  • ?

    event_signal: Texas Pinball Festival expected to feature new announcements from Pinball Brothers and American Pinball; Pinball Brothers unable to ship product due to active development

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.119

0:00
Don's Pinball Podcast is doing a very special episode today. It's a birthday episode. It's number 105. 105 for me, not quite that old yet, but a slew of stuff to get forward to today, including events which are happening all freaking day long that I can't wait to get into, including an unboxing.
0:30
I need just a little bit more time with that intro music, man. What the heck? Let's bring it back here again. Can somebody help me out?
0:50
There we go. That sounds better. I ain't playing around today. It's birthday day today, so we're going to do another celebratory episode. And at the time you're probably listening to this, unless you click pretty quick, I'm online right now on YouTube doing a live unboxing. I'm just going to give it away. Black Knight sort of rages here. The birthday present unboxings will start right now this morning. Go check it out. It's still up on YouTube. I'll leave it up there for everybody. But I didn't want to wait. I wanted to get an episode out too because we've got a ton of news to talk about today, including some new tips and rumors and little speculation from the Pinball Brothers. So we know that Texas Pinball Festival is on its way. It's right around the corner, just a couple of weeks away. I'm getting everything ready for the giveaways and the meet and greets and everything we're going to be doing. VIP dinners, anybody? What do you want to do? Let me know, nonspinballpodcast at gmail.com. I know my friends from Mad Pinball are going to be there. Email jeffatmadpinball.com. Tell them what you want him to be wearing. Should he be in shorts and khakis? Is it too early to break out the black socks and shorts? It's not quite Memorial Day yet. All that is coming up. but get a game from them if you want. But I was talking to my friend from the Pinball Brothers, Rudy. He does the social media and marketing. I was perusing the list of attendees for the Texas Pinball Festival, of which there are a ton, including myself and Balls of Steel. But I was like, hey, man, cool. Pinball Brothers is listed there as exhibiting. Wonder what they're going to be bringing. Now, they just brought us kind of a repackaging of one of their recent games, It was the Alien Ripley version edition, $79.95, a great price for a wide-body game. And I think they came out with that version probably for two reasons. One, they were able to get some more of the assets for Sigourney Weaver and put her in the game and kind of make that game feature complete. Also a new art package. Plus it gave them something else to put on the line because to date they've had Alien, they did Queen, and then it doesn't seem like they're quite ready yet for their next title. and they just partnered with these folks in Italy for a brand new production facility. So why not, you know, drum up some more business for Alien? You have the license. You got even more of the license. So that's what they did. But I got to see that as a stopgap measure because I know they have some more products that are coming out. So I reached out to my boy there online and I'm like, hey, I see you're going to be at TPF. What are you guys bringing? Well, Rudy's tied up with some projects right now, so he's not going to be there in person. So something's going on back at the home factory. I love that. They're working on something there. Cool. They will be represented on site though From somebody from the company They didn't have enough time to ship any games though Now at Pinball Expo They had a lot of aliens out there The Ripley version was there, the Topper was there Queens were there Hopefully there's a local distro that's going to bring some games I want to get some more time on Queen I felt like with everything that was going on at Pinball Expo I didn't get as much time on that as I wanted So hopefully that'll be back there We'll get some more Queen time But we're not going to see their brand new game So there's some confirmation I know everybody's let down, I'm sorry I'm sorry, I'm just reporting the news to you as I see it. But I'll just reiterate what we have heard from them. I've heard a couple of things. All of this is rocky rumors. Nothing is substantiated. But of the unsubstantiated, the most or the least unsubstantiated of this was that a music pin is coming. And then the next layer down in uncertainty from that was that it was a European licensed music band, which I'm hyped about. I mean, this is a European pinball company. That totally makes sense. And in my heart, I would love to have a Rammstein or a Ghost Machine. Both European bands would love it. But I don't think that's what's going to happen because as reported prior, back in the time of Expo from the Paris Pinball Addict, the European music license that's supposed to be coming out from the Pinball Brothers is 70s classic disco darling, not Donna Summer. we're talking about ABBA, ABBA the Swedish teens with the piercing earworms and I gotta say that I'm I hope they're doing their market research in Europe, maybe it's bigger over there, now ABBA of course sold tons of records back in the 70's, their music is everywhere, everybody knows that license everybody knows the music how you feel about the dancing queen that's up to each individual person, I kind of can't, it's like knives in my ear when I listen to ABBA music. And I like the kind of obscure 70s stuff. I unironically love me some Bee Gees. You know, I've discovered them kind of later in life. And, you know, in antiquity, it was seen as probably the music you wouldn't want to be associated with unless you were in that disco scene. I would have been, you know, with a denim jacket and some scorpions patches on it, and I would have been all disco sucks or whatever. but looking back on it now the Bee Gees are so absurd that falsetto voice from Barry Gibb is just insane that not only was that popular but incredibly hugely popular and like the greatest band of the decade as far as sales and popularity nuts to me and so it's fun to go back and listen to that now just because of how absurd it is and I love it I love me some Bee Gees Abba on the other hand is like if there was a way to make white bread even more bland And that's kind of where I would put that. It's like I can't even ironically get in on that. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, listeners. My Big Fat Greek Wedding, wasn't that kind of like a stage adaptation with some ABBA music in it? So maybe ABBA is a code name and we have something else that's coming out. Or maybe they're legit just going to deadass give us an ABBA pinball machine. And if Queen didn't reach the heights of audience interaction and adoption, I'm not sure what ABBA is going to accomplish. not that older music themes can't be great Elton John's fantastic as far as lights in a box and shots gameplay and code wise there's not much of an adventure there but it's got cool mechanisms and mind boggling fit and finish and lights and everything so maybe they'll surprise us who's making this though? I haven't even heard anything rumored about who's designing this layout what they've done before is this designed in committee is this some other project that's been kicking around for a while? Was this something from the back catalog of Deep Root that they were six games away from bilking elderly money out of the retirement funds to try to bring out a subparament scheme? Or what? That I have not heard. So I haven't heard, and Pinball Brothers is not telling me, but they will tell me that they do have a new game coming relatively soon, like this year is kind of the sense that I get. Of course, nothing substantiated, but that's what I'm hearing. So, you know, I'm hopeful for Pinball Brothers. You know, we've got some big tier pinball. I think, you know, the big three pinball manufacturers right now, we've got Stern, J.J.P. Spooky. And then the next tier down from that, Pinball Brothers solidly in that space. You know, Haggis is kind of falling out of favor, especially with their delays on top of their delays. You know, CGC makes good games but are very hampered by their output.

medium confidence · Don states 'if you get a good 3D-printed model now, and you sand it and you get it painted, clear-coated, it's just about indistinguishable from a sculpt'

Don @ Economics discussion — Explains why limited edition sculpting is economically viable for major manufacturers (Stern) but not mid-tier boutiques

  • “If you look at recent games like Turner Pinball's Ninja Eclipse, the giant, you know, kind of Asian-themed castle in the back left of the play field, take a look at that. That's a 3D-printed model that's then hand-painted, clear-coated, and put in the game.”

    Don @ 3D printing analysis — Cites concrete example of high-quality 3D-printed playfield element as viable alternative to injection molding

  • “Do you want one of these machines or would you take a new in box Elton John Platinum? And it's like, you know, I think given the option, I think I'd grab an Elton John.”

    Don @ Value comparison — Direct value comparison between P3 system and premium Stern game—identifies price point sensitivity for collectors

  • “I don't think they're gouging. They're not building these things for $1,500 and then charging $11,000. I don't think that's the case. So the price is what the price is.”

    Don @ Pricing defense — Defends Multimorphic pricing against gouging allegations; indicates confidence in cost structure legitimacy

  • “Nothing is substantiated. But of the unsubstantiated, the most or the least unsubstantiated of this was that a music pin is coming. And then the next layer down in uncertainty from that was that it was a European licensed music band.”

    Don @ Rumor sourcing — Models uncertainty hierarchy—ABBA rumor is least uncertain of Pinball Brothers pipeline rumors but still unconfirmed

    • Labyrinth
    game
    ABBAmusic_license
    Barrels of Funcompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinball (JJP)company
    Disneycompany
    Paris Pinball Addictmedia
    Donperson
    Rudyperson
    Kineticistmedia
    Naps Arcademedia
    Turner Pinballcompany
    Haggis Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Company (CGC)company
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Bamboo XC1product
    Elton John Platinumgame

    medium · Don confirms TPF timing 'just a couple of weeks away' and Pinball Brothers 'will be represented on site though... They didn't have enough time to ship any games though'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Disney's approval process for Alien topper is the primary blocker; not manufacturing or design issues

    high · Don confirms 'it's in licensing hell right now... the timing and the approval that's completely out of their hands... That licensor is Disney'

  • $

    market_signal: Consumer preference for $11,500 P3 module vs established premium titles (Elton John) is price-sensitive; value depends on accumulated theme library, not single title

    medium · Don states 'if they keep coming out with banger themes like this, if they get four of these together, that would really make people think... about maybe going in on one of these'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Multimorphic P3 collector's edition differentiates via cosmetic elements (side swords, back glass bezel, powder-coated armor) but identical playfield across tiers; limited resale opportunity

    high · Don details tier pricing and notes 'If you've already got the machine, you can't get the swords unless you sell your machine and buy the collector's one'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Pinball Brothers has unannounced games in active development at Italian production facility; at least one music-themed game (ABBA rumored) expected within 12 months

    medium · Don states Rudy 'is tied up with some projects right now' and 'they do have a new game coming relatively soon, like this year is kind of the sense that I get'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: ABBA pinball machine rumored as Pinball Brothers' next music-licensed title, reported by Paris Pinball Addict and European licensing source

    medium · Don credits 'Paris Pinball Addict' reporting and states ABBA is 'the least unsubstantiated' Pinball Brothers rumor but cautions 'Nothing is substantiated'

  • ?

    technology_signal: 3D printing quality and resolution advances (FDM printers like Bamboo XC1) are enabling boutique manufacturers to replace injection-molded sculpts cost-effectively

    medium · Don argues modern 3D-printed elements 'sanded and painted, clear-coated, it's just about indistinguishable from a sculpt' and cites Turner Pinball's Ninja Eclipse as example

    • 8:00
    So I think Pinball Brothers could be that nice little kind of mid-range there. You know, they're not the big three, but they're doing lights and steams. I guess throw American Pinball in there too. But they're doing licensed themes. So I guess if American Pinball is the American version of the company, Pinball Brothers I see as kind of a counterpart as far as scope and scale and production.
    8:20
    But I like that Pinball Brothers is bringing the licensed themes. We'll have to see what American Pinball has for us later. I mentioned on a previous podcast, and we'll rehash it again, but AP will have a brand new game in all likelihood at TPF from what rumors I've been hearing. and timing-wise that seems to work out. One year from when GTF came out, so we'll look for that. All signs are pointing to an original theme. We'll see what they bring, and we'll see what Pinball Brothers bring, but we'll have to probably wait a few more months. But that's fine. Hopefully somebody will drag in a Ripley edition. Somebody will drag in some Queens so we can still get some time on some PB games on site. One other thing, where is the Alien Topper? Well, it's in licensing hell right now. Not hell like it's never going to happen. But it's the timing and the approval that's completely out of their hands. Lior's created and sculpted this magnificent monster that sits on top of the game. It looks like a great diorama as it is. I saw it in person at Expo. It fits around the beacon lights that go up on top of the alien machine. But it's still not available, and that's because the licensor has to approve it. That licensor is Disney. So definitely not an obscure family member that happens to own these rights and is really picky on details. it's a conglomerate that's really built to license their themes and make money so hopefully that'll come out soon for all the alien owners because I know if I had myself an Alan Ripley edition I would want to have that big gigantic gargoyle looking alien up on top of it the tail moves back and forth and it got the beacons it looks cool it looks cool a lot of the fine detail I don think you can even see once it up on top of the machine but it there nonetheless so we wait and see about that What else do I have to talk about here? We had another game that was released within the last week. The Princess Bride has been revealed. The pricing is out there, and we also got the gameplay stream, and a couple days after the announcement, you can now order one. So we got there, everybody. We got there. round of applause for everybody. So I sat and I watched this two-hour stream. I didn't watch the entire two hours. You know, I watched the first 45 minutes, and then I started skipping around. You know, I got a good sense on everything. I even drew myself a little bit of a layout, and this is something that I don't think I've done since the Foo Fighters reveal, and that's kind of go over a shot-for-shot first impressions. So I've looked at the pictures. You know, I went through Kineticist with Nap Arcade. I've gone to the livestream itself and kind of watched, I got a sense on what's going on in this back third of a module. Of course, it's for the Multimorphics P3 system. It's the interchangeable back third of the play field that you can swap in and out, and you can pull your Weird Al out, drop Princess Bride in there. You're still going to get the same wire forms, the same bottom two-thirds, but instead of looking back at Final Resistance, you're looking back at the Guild of Frontier. So I counted 11 things to shoot at in a roughly fan layout at the back of the play field. Three of those are stand-up targets. So it gives us about eight standard things to shoot with balls. Starting over at the left is one of the main ramps. There's two main ramps to this game. The leftward one goes up into a 180 horseshoe and feeds the left ramp, goes through that castle. It also has this little integrated flap in it. Now, if you haven't played a P3 Multimorphic Machine, they have launch buttons. They don't have launch plungers. And that's because the ball doesn't even plunge from the right lower quadrant of the machine like every pinball machine that we have. Instead, you push the button, and the balls are actually stored in a trough like towards the back, and then there's like 16 balls in this dang thing back there. You hit a button, and they generally like tumble out of the play field somewhere from the back left quadrant, almost like you hit the button, and then the dripping toilet releases, and the ball kind of tumbles down. I don't want to call it a toilet of a game, but it's like a slow dribble that the ball comes out. I think it's ejected through a buck. In this case, it comes up through this little flap on that leftward ramp, and then I think it kicks into the castle, comes down the wire form, and that's how you start the game. You push the button, and then the ball is in play, so it's accomplishing its purpose. But I love that idea of I'm launching a ball into the game. Let's get going. Let's vary our speed that we throw it out there. I'm not a fan of launch buttons. I like plungers. This will be a bit of a first impressions and a rant too. It's just you can see kind of where I'm at with this. But that first ramp Shoots up to the left That's also where the balls will come out into the game They tumble down the left wire form It'll come up There's a little sword mechanism outside of the front of the castle Just past the portcullis Where they kind of come down with this little clang sound It's cool, I like that mechanism It'd be fun with lightsabers or something In this case we have swords because we've got a medieval game here Next to that is the orbit shot So the orbit shot is not the leftward shot It's the second one from the left And so that one will swoop around behind Miracle Max's, kind of come around the tall cliffs of insanity there on the right, and then comes down and feeds through the spinner and essentially joins up with where the right orbit shot is. Next to that, you've got Miracle Max's. It looks like there's a drop target and a Vuck right in front of it. So balls go in there, balls eject. I think that's how you qualify modes or something. I got a little lost there in the gameplay. basically mesmerized by everything going on in the virtual play field at the lower two-thirds. Next to that, you have a captive ball, which goes back and hits a target. That's cool. And then you have the main ramp of the game, the big one in the middle, the big wide body ramp. That one goes up, shoots around, and looks like it dumps back into the right orbit, from what I can see. Maybe wrong there, but that's where I was. Oh, no, no, I'm sorry. It feeds around. In my defense, I'm looking at my hand-drawn drawing schematic that I was making as I was watching this. No, that's the ramp that feeds the right wireform. I'm sorry. It goes down to the right flipper. Forgive me. I had some crossing paths here. So that's the main shot there. It goes up into the wireform. I don't know that it really does much else there. I didn't see if there was a diverting post or something that locks back there. I know there is a mode in the game where you get a two-ball, multi-ball, and the balls need to meet and kiss. And so I think you shoot a ball up one of the ramps or something, and it locks somewhere, and then there's another shot where the other one go together. So when they kiss together, then that qualifies the mode or something. Maybe that's into there. Next to that, we've got a stand-up target, the first of the three that you can shoot out at the back. Then we've got the cool big mech of the game, the magnet-crawling Cliffs of Insanity. Love it. This is great. I love magnets in games. This is a great magnet. This is a cool effect. I'm glad this is in there. It adds some vertical dimensionality to the game as well and some fun little hurry-up moments. So there's a drop target in front of it. I'm sure you'll have to hit that to qualify or maybe if it's your second time. But the ball will go back up there, and it will start working its way up there. As you're playing the mode, the shots that you make, you know, they release little audio call-outs from the scene of the movie, and then the ball slowly makes its way up there and then goes on and does some other fun stuff. Now, from there, it looks like the ball can be staged up there and then can tumble out to the short little wire form that dumps out just past the portcullis of the castle and then comes down the leftward wire form. So that's that there. The only other shots in the game are both right orbit shots. The first one is one that you can hit from that left upper flipper, kind of crosses over and merges right into that orbit to exit on the left orbit. The other one is straight up through the spinner and then kind of merges in the same area. So there's the game shot-wise. So I love what they've done with integrating the movie into the themes. I've gotten my first impressions of it. I can't wait to play this game. I am waiting to order this game. I don't have one ordered.
    16:02
    You know, I still haven't – I've been impressed by the technology and what they've been able to put together for this product and this platform. You know, I respect what they're doing with it. It comes down to my enthusiasm for the platform and for the products, and that weighed against directly with the price and, you know, what else I could do with that price. And then it's basically a decision on, you know, do you want one of these machines or would you take a new in box Elton John Platinum? And it's like, you know, I think given the option, I think I'd grab an Elton John. Of course, if it was lower in price, that would certainly weigh into it. You know, would you rather have, you know, a fully loaded multimorphic machine for $8,000 or spend $12,000 for an Elton John? Well, that would tip it back in the favor of the P3, of course. Now, you know, price is a great equalizer here. I'm not saying that necessarily that their machine is overpriced, though. I don't want to give that impression. There's a lot that's in this machine. I've seen some videos. I've seen it in person, lifted the playfield glass or however it slides out. I've looked at all the mechanisms, the servos, lifting up the little clear acrylic butyrate pillboxes with its little scoops. Like there's a lot mechanistically that's in here, a lot of servo motors. There's 16 balls. You've got to factor in that cost. There's a full-size cabinet. There's screens. There's wires. There's like miles of wires in these things.
    17:24
    So I think their build of materials probably comes in at around here. Like this is the price they need to market it at in order to have a profitable company. I definitely don't think they're gouging. They're not building these things for $1,500 and then charging $11,000. I don't think that's the case. So the price is what the price is. If the value is in it, if you see the value in it, then it makes a pretty easy decision and you may already own one of these things. If you're like me and you haven't quite seen that value, you don't have one. But I will say that if they keep coming out with banger themes like this, if they get four of these together, that would really make people think once or twice or thrice about maybe going in on one of these. So I don't have one ordered. I don't have one pre-ordered. If I had the platform already, I think I'd be in this, at least for the standard. Of course, the limited edition version goes for $5,000. Let's go to the pricing. I have all that broken down here. So I talked about the cost, talked about the gameplay, scope of the game. I'll get to that in a second. Review on prices. So if you don't own one of these, your price is, just to recap, you have to look them up, $11,500 for the standard, $12,750 for the limited edition, and then they have that collector's top-end edition for $13,750, looks like. So there's a $1,250 spread between the base and the mid-tier, and then for an extra $1,000 you can jump up to that top tier. What the top tier gets you is a little bit of decorations basically. I think you get some kind of bezel around the back glass screen and you get those swords on the side. So if that's important to you, there you go. You get some powder-coated armor as well, you know, $200 value. There it is. So, yeah, that's kind of it. Now if you've already got the machine, you can't get the swords unless you sell your machine and buy the collector's one. They don't sell the swords separately. It'd be kind of cool if they did. be a lot cooler if you did. But as for now, they don't. But there's a price. Price of the modules themselves, if you already have this platform, or if you're a crazy person and just want to have a third of a gameplay play field to sit on the floor, crisscross applesauce, and throw balls at it if you want. $37.50 is the price that's going to get you that standard version. $5,000 for the limited, which will come with extra art and things. The gameplay field itself is the same among all the versions. and so that one of the other things that I getting at so for this module what else could you get for that well you could go and get yourself a Popeye Saves the Planet or something of that tier Get yourself a Fire maybe even the Champagne version if you want But, you know, you're not going to get a new-in-box Stern Pro for $3,750. You're going to pay $6,900. So you're, you know, another $2,500 to $3,000 to jump up to a full-size commercial Stern machine. you know so you're paying about 60% of the cost of a base model stern you know just to go for the play field itself and not even the limited one just the regular one I mean $37.50 pretty close to $4,000 pretty close to about 55-60% of the cost of a stern pro you know if you want a venom maybe even neck and neck hole you know so when I look at this thing and then I look at the you know what you get with a stern game they seem to be fairly comparable where it comes to plastics and sculpts and things. Usually if you want to sculpt, you need to go to an upper level version. So here's where I'm at. I know I've been rambling a bit. The play field design for the module itself looks fine. I think they took good advantage of that entire area there. It's not a complicated mechanistic knot of ball paths and things like what I think of Weird Al. Weird Al feels more like how the Godfather is towards the back where there's all these different little areas to go to. Princess Bride and Sea is way more straightforward. What it's missing, though, is any kind of three-dimensionality. There's been a lot of people that have been comparing this game and its theme right up against a recent theme from Barrels of Fun, Labyrinth. These are both films from the 80s, both fantasy and scope. Both kind of hit that same nostalgia. The same person that's into Labyrinth is probably the same person that would be into Princess Bride. Some more one way, some more the other way. I love them both. I think I actually like Princess Bride much more than I do Labyrinth, although there's still room in my heart for both of them there. I'm much more nostalgic, personally, for Princess Bride, that being the movie we had on VHS and the one that we would watch whenever you got that HBO-free preview back in the day. So I would be absolutely in on a machine if this was a full-featured game that was coming from Barrels of Fun or something. So that's kind of where I am with the theme. I love it. what you get though with a barrels of fun machine at ten thousand six hundred dollars is a lot of three-dimensional sculpts so these sculpted pieces uh what they are is injection molded um for the most part which means that you have uh you know a metal form that needs to be custom made and then it's injected with hot plastic and then it released if you uh want to get one of these things though you've got to make the die you've got to make the uh the actual press the mold for the figures. Now, when you go to scale, if you were going to make, say, 200,000 Happy Meal toys that were injection molded, then, you know, the $10,000 cost to come up with that original mold is kind of absorbed over the units of 200,000 little things that you're putting out, cake toppers, army men, whatever it is that you're making, injection molded. When you're looking at making, you know, 1,000 pinball machines, though, it's really hard to justify that cost. When we look at Scooby-Doo, that collector's edition has four or five different sculpts in it that were all individually made. There's a lot of money that goes into that. There's probably six figures just in tooling to make those molds before you even get one sculpt back. I get that. When I look at something like Princess Bride, everything they have, the castle, the Cliffs of Insanity, Miracle Max's cabin down there, the swords, all those could be wildly awesome three-dimensional sculpts. And they're all made with basically stacked and organized plastics, you know, like a house of cards kind of put together. It's all very two-dimensional. It's all very Stern Pro.
    23:41
    You know, when you look at an Iron Maiden Premium or LE and you get the sculpted characters, and when you jump down to the pros, even for Deadpool, you get the flat plastics. That's the reason why, because there's cost involved in those. Now, the unit cost for making the sculpted figure itself isn't great. It's the tooling that you have to do to come up with that. That tooling reason is the reason why when you see something like Jersey Jack's Toy Story 4, we all got what we call the cake toppers, right? These are all characters that have already not only been approved by the licensor, but the tooling already exists for them, and they're available, and you don't even have to give it a second thought. You want sculpted figures in your game. They're already made. They're already approved. They're already done. Move on to the next thing. Versus what it would cost to come up with individual tooling for each one of those Buzz Lightyear characters in Toy Story 4 just to put his arm in a different position that would then need to go back to Disney, back to licensing approval, back to get out just to get a figure that's not much different than what you could already get off the shelf. I get it, there would have been much more imagination if it was all custom, but it's not. But that's the reason why that is why it is.
    24:46
    So what I'm trying to get at is it is expensive to do sculpted things. If we had a sculpted castle, sculpted swords, sculpted Miracle Max cabins, sculpted Cliffs of Insanity, it would look completely amazing, and we would see a lot more value in that game. It would be a lot more of a world you would want to play in, but a lot of cost would come with that. Now, we see a different approach when it comes to a company like American Pinball and Galactic Tank Force. They have three-dimensional sculpted toys that are in the game, but they were 3D printed. You can see the 3D print layer lines. It's not a secret. When we saw the factory tour videos, we saw the printer farm that they had there, right next to where they had all the props that they were recording the green screen stuff for the game.
    25:29
    So back in the day, there would have been an absolute kind of budget view that you would have gotten or a feel if you would have seen a game with 3D prints. You would have thought, okay, 3D printed stuff and glue sticks and hot glue, that's how they put this game together. This game doesn't have that much value. What I will say is there have been huge leaps in progress and resolution and quality of prints that you get with filament printers than you had back in the day necessarily. I've got a consumer-grade product right now. It's the Bamboo XC1. It is churning out amazing content, the prints that I do out of there.
    26:04
    Even the mod makers now are using a lot of 3D-printed things to build their shooter rods, to build things, build buildings, and they're coming out looking comparable to what you would get as a sculpted injection-molded product. If you have a good printer, and it doesn't even have to be like a $10,000 printer. Mine was $1,600, no discounts, and it's putting out awesome, amazing content with multiple different colors simultaneously. It's amazing.
    26:32
    But if you get a good 3D-printed model now, and you take that model and you sand it and you get it painted, clear-coated, it's just about indistinguishable from a sculpt, in my eyes, from what I've seen. If you look at recent games like Turner Pinball's Ninja Eclipse, the giant, you know, kind of Asian-themed castle in the back left of the play field, take a look at that. That's a 3D-printed model that's then hand-painted, clear-coated, and put in the game. And, you know, when you're looking at making 100 Ninja Eclipses, it makes no sense to spend five figures getting tooling done for one sculpt in your game when you can make something that's like 95% there on an FDM printer, right? So I think, you know, for for multimorphic making scopes might not really fit in because of everything else that they have going on or what they need to be with pricing. But looking at 3D printing and sanding and painting, I think that would have added a lot more dimensionality. And then I think looking at the thing, as long as there's not visible visible layer lines, you know, if they did some quality 3D printing, I think I think that would be doable. and we would have more of that kind of world to be more comparable to something like where they went just balls out with barrels of fun with the sculpted 3D villages in Labyrinth. So that's kind of where I'm at there. So I think, you know, it looks like a good product. If you've got a P3 Multi-Market, I'm sure you've gone in on one. I can't wait to go play this game at the Texas Pinball Festival. Those are some of my views on it and the scope of it. so does that make sense for you? No matter what edition you go with, they do come with some side graphics. You can even get powder-coated armor if you get that collector's edition, but there's still no art blades that are available. There's no plunger on the machine. You still have the dribble button to get your balls out there, and there's no sculpts. It's all a plastic, so that's kind of my first impressions of it. I'll have more once I play the game. I can't wait to play it. Maybe I'll get to meet some of the team over there and give a pat on the back for the great job that did bringing this thing to the market and nabbing this awesome license. Now, if right now we lived in a world where you had to choice between Weird Al's Museum of Natural Hilarity and Final Resistance and Princess Bride and Gremlins and Goonies, I think that would be hard to resist that. You know, then that would make a whole lot more sense.
    29:01
    You know, when I'm looking at Lexi Lightspeed and Go Kart Racing and Cosmic Kart Racing and Heist, All original themes, you know, all fun to play, but they don't have that drive that these new licenses do. I would love to see this as the direction that they take off in. All right, what else do we have? Let's take a moment and celebrate what's going to be going on today. Today is my birthday. It's February 27th. I am a Pisces. I'm very excited about this. This is going to be a day of unboxing. Sitting over in the unboxing dojo right now is a Black Knight Sword of Rage inside of a Foo Fighters box. And as of the time of this recording, I'm just about ready to go over there and saw that thing open. Later on today also on YouTube tonight will be another special unboxing Do not miss this one This one is going to be amazing This one going to be special effects special guests special surprises. I can't wait to pop out what's going to come out of the box there. What's in the box? So be sure to check that out. That will be tonight. That will be on YouTube. If you were listening to this a couple days later, because that's the magic of podcasting and how it works, go check it out on the YouTube. Put me in your headphones and listen to the fun while you're on the airplane waiting for a public bathroom to open. I don't know what you're doing, silly person. But those are all options for you, so go check that out. What else do we have? Oh, I would like to launch a new segment of the show, something I call Pinball Market Segment.
    30:32
    I think it might catch on. So I was sitting there at work last night, and I was playing some Rush music because I'm 40 years old now. And I was thinking, man, I do love that Rush music. I do love that Rush pinball machine. Now, I had myself a limited edition, and then it got to the point that new games were coming. It was fun, but I wasn't playing it as much as I was. I loved it, but I was like, you know what? I think I would love something new more than I would love keeping this game. So I went ahead and sold my Rush LE. Man, what a fantastic-looking game that was. I'm glad I had it. I'm glad I went with the LE. I had the expression lights. I had the full rush experience for like a solid almost of a year. And then I sold it. And part of the reasoning that led me to sell it was the fact that if I do want to get this game back again, I know I'll be able to get it, and I could even downgrade, go with the premium and still have that same layout. By then, the expression lights will be available, and then I can come in a little bit cheaper. So that's what I was thinking. So last night, as I was listening to some Tom Sawyer, I was thinking, let me go check out the market and see where Rush premiums are at. You know, given that, you know, Venoms and Foo Fighters are just all over the place, you know, for thousands off of what they cost before. You know, maybe I could just, you know, walk into a premium for, you know, $6,200 or something with some odds in it or something. So imagine my surprise, dear listener, when I get onto Pinside, and there are a grand total of two Rush premiums on the marketplace right now. Two. That's it. That's all that was out there. I remember when this game was still in production, there was new in-box ones for less than MSRP, like kind of all over the place. And I was like, ah, cool, perfect. You know, it's Rush. It's kind of a niche theme. It's a music pin. It's not, you know, an Elwynn. I'll be able to get this at some point. And then for some reason, they terminated the production fairly early. And then that may be factoring into this. So for fun, I went through and I looked at Rush in all three of its tiers and how many are available. And then I put that against the most recent music pin release, Foo Fighters, the Jack Danger amazing Dead Post game. And just to see, like, what is the state of the market when it comes to machines? What's available and kind of what are the pricings? So starting with Rush Pro, I went there. There are four Rush Pros. available right now on Pinside. That's it. I think one of them is pending sale. So three to four and that's it. What the heck? That's only three or four more than Black Knight Sword of Rage which is impossible to find. I looked at Foo Fighters. Sixteen. There are sixteen Foo Fighters available in the pro version right now on Pinside and all are available cheaper than MSRP. A lot of them have mods. Art Blades have been taken care of. They don't have Shooter Rods or Topics because they don't run out yet. but I was just kind of taken aback by that and I think that speaks to either the popularity of the Rush theme or the quantity of games produced now Rush has finished its run it's complete they're not making any more so however they've made is how many they're going to make barring any re-releases or renewals of the contract Foo Fighters still in production so as of right now it still hasn't been a full year since Foo Fighters released but Rush has been out for more than that so I would think that there would still be more rushes out in the wild than foo fighters so is it that uh you know maybe our appetites aren't as long as they are and people are looking at flipping games i mean i certainly did with my foo fighters premium um is that why there's more on the market or or is it that people are kind of hanging on to rush more because the people that have it really love it and it's like one of their forever games but that was amazing to me uh rush premium two premiums available foo fighters premium right now, 24 are available. All listed for at or below MSRP. The ones that are MSRP tend to be the ones that are still new in box from distributors, ready to go. Otherwise, there's modded ones available, just like mine was. Mine was stellar. I think I sold it for $8,200 or something crazy like that. I'm a giver, man. No, no, topper with it. Well, there was an aftermarket topper, not official Stern topper. But 24 versus two, two Rush premiums. Um, that struck me when it gets to the LE, it's kind of funny. There's 10 rush LEs and there's 10 Foo Fighter LEs right now. Uh, both were runs of a thousand. So, I mean, when it comes to that tier, it evens out, but, uh, I was kind of amazed. So I decided to look more, you know, I decided to pick another title more from the antiquity from the time period of Rush. Uh, so I went with Mandalorian. I came out a little bit before Rush did, but still kind of right in that same region, uh, kind of back during the heat of COVID, not a post COVID release like Foo Fighters. and Mandalorian pros, 12 available. Premiums, 20 Mandalorian premiums are available. But for some reason, Rush, we're at four and two and that's it for pros and premiums. LEs, there were five Mandalorian LEs last night when I checked on Pinside and then a smaller production run, only 750 are out there. But that was interesting. I looked up one more game that is also a little bit more desirable now than it was when it came out and that is Stern Pinball's Monsters. This is a game that is not shattering any records when it comes to layout, as far as intricacy of shots or interesting mechanisms. There's a bash toy, there's a magnet, there's an orbit, there's two ramps, one of which is just a 360 ramp that kind of comes right back at you. It's not terribly interesting, but there's kind of a really sweet theme and an awesome lower play field, Grandpa's Dungeon. And the theme, though, is great, man, if you're into monsters at all like I am. There's even that Paul Wynn-esque voice in there, charge the Zap Mater. Like, I love that. It's got sitcom. It's got canned laughter. That machine, Pro Premium LE, I looked at the numbers. A 3.6 and 3 is where we come in. And interestingly, the price for the premiums is right around the same price as the LE, especially if you want that sweet black and white edition. so I think what's happening here is both of these games Rush and Munsters probably weren't huge sellers they had their fans but because of in the case of Munsters the layout was a little light in the case of Rush it's Canadian rock band there's not like a story driving it and even though the call outs are amazing and if you appreciate Rush at all it's an amazing amazing game both of these titles seemed a bit more niche and I think people were just holding back waiting for other releases you know when Rush was available, so was Godzilla. So which one would you get if you were the general pinball buying public? And I think that's what happened. Munsters was a little bit of an early release before the big surge with COVID, so the game came out, it sold what it sold, and then it was retired, and that's kind of where we're at. So now there's not a whole lot of these games available circulating on the market for sale, and I think that's what's driving the fact that there's just not that many Rush premiums. So what the heck am I to do, man? I thought I was just going to be able to backflip right into a $5,500 Rush Premium that's been sitting there for eight months. The guy's wife wants him to get this machine out of the house. I can come by with a cash deal, pick it up today or something. Or maybe it's been rotting on a loading dock at a distributor's warehouse, and they just can't wait to get rid of this thing. But that doesn't seem to be the case when it comes to Rush. Now, in the case of Munsters, I still have feelings that this game may be ripe. So here's the other difference. Rush is low in availability, but its price isn't crazy. I mean, you know, these prices are going for around what MSRP was. Munsters, though, is going for quite a bit more than its MSRP and quite a bit more than even contemporary games new in box now. The premiums for Munsters are going for five digits. You know, you can't get a $9,000 Munster premium. You know, the Munster LEs are going for big prices. Even the Pros are still kind of, you know, around the price of a Pro now, not the Pro then. So I think Munsters would be a title that if I was stern and I had a little gap in the schedule and I had some good licensing ties and I could just say, hey, what about another run of 500? I think coming out with premium, black and white edition, special edition, because you won't do any more LEs, but come out with that, rerun that topper, I think that's a way to get to some market gold for Munsters, and I would be very tempted there. I'm not quite at the tipping point for dumping my whole bucket onto a Princess Bride, but I think I would be able to be talked into a Munsters, especially if that topper was available. Can you imagine? We'd all charge our zap meters together. It'd be awesome. So thanks for joining me. There'll be even more content coming later today. It's my birthday, y'all. Jump in. It's going to be a good time. Where's, what the heck? Where's my button?
    39:14
    We're still out here podcasting, man. We're still celebrating. We're having a great time. TPF is going to be amazing. I got even more fun stuff to do today. I can't wait. We're doing a double unboxing. One now, one later. Don't miss them. And if you do, they're still there on YouTube. Email me. Don't go to podcastgmail.com. Show up on the Patreon. Be a homie. Buy some mods. Get hyped. Late.