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Pinball Magazine & Pinball News PINcast November 2021 recap

Pinball News & Pinball Magazine Pincast·podcast_episode·1h 54m·held·Dec 2, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

November 2021: Funhouse upgrade kit revealed, Cactus Canyon (Remake)+ announced, industry personnel shifts reported.

Summary

Jonathan Euston (Pinball Magazine) and Martin Ebb (Pinball News) recap November 2021 pinball industry news, including the reveal of Funhouse Rudy's Nightmare upgrade kit by Pedretti Gaming (a collaborative project with Italian developers), Chicago Gaming Company announcement of Cactus Canyon (Remake) Plus edition with topper, American Pinball's Legends of Valhalla winning Best Modern Pinball at Midwest Gaming Classic, and personnel moves including Michael Grant joining Stern Pinball as marketing manager.

Key Claims

  • Funhouse Rudy's Nightmare is a collaboration between Pedretti Gaming (Italy), Team Pinball (UK), Pinsound (France), Fast Pinball (US), and Planetary Pinball (licensing/marketing).

    high confidence · Jonathan Euston and Martin Ebb discussing the kit components and manufacturing partners

  • Funhouse kit took approximately two years for Pedretti to develop, with a plan to release one 2.0 upgrade kit per year going forward.

    high confidence · Martin Ebb citing information from conversation with Andrea Pedretti

  • Funhouse Rudy's Nightmare kit is priced around $2,000 USD and includes LCD displays, new speakers, Pinsound CPU board, Fast Pinball control board, and reversible installation.

    high confidence · Jonathan Euston detailing kit specifications and pricing

  • Cactus Canyon (Remake) (Remake) (Remake) Plus edition will be priced the same as the original Limited Edition but without the additional LE-exclusive features like wooden arch and shaker motor.

    high confidence · Jonathan Euston discussing pricing and feature differences

  • Legends of Valhalla won Best Modern Pinball at Midwest Gaming Classic despite initial skepticism about the game.

    high confidence · Martin Ebb reporting on award win and community reception

  • Michael Grant left American Pinball sales/marketing department after Pinball Expo 2021 to join Stern Pinball as a marketing manager under Zach Sharpe.

    high confidence · Jonathan Euston and Martin Ebb discussing personnel movement

  • Scott Gullicks and Frank Gigliotti from Riot Pinball will be working on a second title for American Pinball, confirmed by David Fix.

    high confidence · Martin Ebb reporting David Fix confirmation at shows

  • Funhouse images leaked online before official announcement, prompting Pedretti to rush the public reveal.

    high confidence · Jonathan Euston describing the leak on PinSight and Facebook

Notable Quotes

  • “If I could only have one game, I'd want it to be Funhaus.”

    Jonathan Euston @ ~00:05:00 — Personal testimonial about Funhouse's appeal as a classic game

  • “It took two years for Pedretti to develop this Funhouse kit. But their plan is, now that the wheels are set in motion, to release such an upgrade kit for one game every year.”

    Martin Ebb @ ~00:15:00 — Key business signal about Pedretti's production roadmap for 2.0 kits

  • “They now have three versions of the game, the SE, the SE Plus, and the LE.”

    Jonathan Euston @ ~00:25:00 — Clarification of Chicago Gaming's tiered product strategy

  • “The game will hold all three versions of the game, so you can pick the one that you want.”

    Martin Ebb @ ~00:30:00 — Describing the Cactus Canyon's code flexibility with original Williams, Chicago Gaming, and new Josh Sharpe/Lyman Sheets versions

  • “One of the news stories is that the game actually won Best Modern Pinball at Midwest Gaming Classic.”

    Martin Ebb @ ~00:45:00 — Award recognition for Legends of Valhalla despite early skepticism

Entities

Jonathan EustonpersonMartin EbbpersonPedretti GamingcompanyPlanetary PinballcompanyChicago Gaming CompanycompanyAmerican PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyPinball Brotherscompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Funhouse Rudy's Nightmare upgrade kit officially announced after image leaks; priced ~$2,000 USD with optional topper; accepting expressions of interest for production planning

    high · Kit details including LCD displays, Pinsound board, Fast Pinball CPU, speakers, reversible installation; 2.0 designation indicating first in annual release series

  • ?

    product_strategy: Chicago Gaming announcing SE Plus edition of Cactus Canyon remake to satisfy demand for limited edition topper without full LE feature set; three-tier pricing strategy (SE, SE Plus, LE)

    high · SE Plus priced same as original LE but missing wooden arch, shaker motor, special armor; responding to rapid LE sellout

  • ?

    design_innovation: Pedretti Gaming pioneering reversible 2.0 upgrade kit concept allowing original game preservation and future removal; plug-and-play installation with dual-mode display (original alphanumeric or new LCD)

    high · Kit described as fully removable in ~1 hour; can switch between original and Rudy's Nightmare rule sets; mirror replaced by playfield LCD

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Funhouse kit demonstrates cross-border manufacturing model: Italian manufacturer (Pedretti), French audio (Pinsound), UK support (Team Pinball), US hardware (Fast Pinball), North American marketing (Planetary Pinball)

    high · Multiple company collaborations cited; distribution through CoinTaker, Mr. Pinball Australia, Iris Gaming, Freddy's, Pinball Paradise, Pinball Heaven resellers

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Michael Grant departed American Pinball (post-Expo 2021) to join Stern Pinball as marketing manager reporting to Zach Sharpe; focus on Stern Army location initiatives and Insider Connected system

Transcript

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0:00
Funhouse Rudy's Nightmare Revealed Cactus Canyon Remake SE Plus Edition Announced Mini Pinball Introduced in China Hi, my name is Jonathan Euston, I'm the editor of Pinball Magazine and today I'm joined with... I'm Martin Ebb and I'm the editor of Pinball News and we're here to look back at all the events in the pinball world that occurred in the month of November 2021.
0:35
Right, and it's been quite an exciting month, although there's not been any new games or major reveals, I would say. Well, some surprises, but still there's a lot of news to report. There certainly is, yes. As you might have gathered from our headlines just now, we've got some new versions of games, if not exactly new games themselves. So we'll be bringing you those details, all those later. And we've got a whole bunch of news from all the major manufacturers, as well as information from shows, seminars that people have been speaking in, and some news about people moving from company to company and appointments that are available if you fancy being employed in the pinball business yourself. So lots coming up. Yes, and I don't want to sound like a running gag, but in our previous episodes, we've tried to reach out to our good friend Gary Flowers. Ah, yes. Yes. Gary did, I talked to him earlier today, although my phone is having issues to the point that I'm afraid it's time for a new one. I'm not sure how much it will last, but it keeps me chatting all the time. I've got trouble contacting you on that as well. Yeah.
1:56
That being said, Gary is going to call in and share some exciting news with us. Yeah. I'm going to bring you a little bit of news about Gary's appearance. later in the show as well, because he actually popped up in America while I was over there, but we'll talk about that a little bit later. His fourth headline, he went to America. Yes, and came back again as well. And not because he was kicked out. Well, not this time, no. So, anyway, we'll come to that later, but we'll get on with some of the headlines, and I suppose we should start with the first one of those, which is about the reveal of a game which you and I knew a little bit about in advance of its actual public announcement, which was a conversion kit, really, for the game Funhaus. Yes, a Williams game from 1990, designed by Pat Lawler. It's the one with the big Rudy head that was reused later on in Roadshow with two types of those heads. classic game can't say anything negative about it it's really if there's one game that is stamped in my memories as the game to play in the arcade it was Funhouse yeah so my very first game I bought was Funhouse it was that popular and enjoyable for me If I could only have one game, I'd want it to be Funhaus. Right, yeah. I regret selling mine, especially at the price I sold it for.
Team Pinball
company
Pinsoundcompany
Fast Pinballcompany
Michael Grantperson
Zach Sharpeperson
David Fixperson
Ryan Whiteperson
Andrea Pedrettiperson
Scott Gullicksperson
Frank Gigliottiperson
Josh Sharpeperson
Lyman F. Sheats Jr.person
Pat Lawlorperson
Rob Burkeperson
Steven Bowdenperson
Dennis Nordmanperson
Zanelperson

high · Confirmed by Jonathan/Martin discussion; Michael spoke at Pintastic about transition; working on location promotion and new initiatives

  • ?

    competitive_signal: American Pinball's Legends of Valhalla won Best Modern Pinball at Midwest Gaming Classic despite initial community skepticism; competed against Godzilla, Mandalorian, and Guns N' Roses

    high · Both hosts confirmed award win; Martin noted surprising positive reception given early doubt

  • ?

    leak_detection: Funhouse Rudy's Nightmare images leaked online (PinSight, Facebook) before official announcement; Pedretti Gaming responded by hyping discussion thread and accelerating official reveal

    high · Jonathan noted images appeared before announcement; discussed on PinSight with minimal initial engagement; Pedretti responded prompting rushed announcement

  • ?

    product_strategy: Pedretti Gaming establishing 2.0 kit release cadence of one upgrade kit per year; candidate games mentioned include Whirlwind, Bad Cats, Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball; non-licensed titles preferred

    high · Martin citing Andrea Pedretti conversation; planning succession after two-year Funhouse development cycle

  • $

    market_signal: Original Funhouse machines appreciating significantly; noted at ~$8,000-$9,000 current market price vs. $2,000 purchase price years ago; incentivizing upgrade kit adoption over new machine purchase

    medium · Jonathan and Martin discussing pricing trends; upgrade kit as value proposition for existing Funhouse owners

  • ?

    business_signal: Chicago Gaming Cactus Canyon remake unlikely to ship before January 2022 based on Martin's assessment; company taking laid-back approach to production timeline despite show demonstrations

    medium · Martin's speculation: 'I doubt you'll see anything ship this year, to be honest' with caveat of no official statement

  • ?

    community_signal: Cactus Canyon Limited Edition sold out rapidly; pricing ~$9,250-$9,500 considered reasonable by market, driving quick sell-through; interactive topper became most-wanted unavailable feature

    high · SE Plus creation directly responding to topper demand from LE buyers; Jonathan noting buyers expected $10,000+ pricing

  • ?

    technology_signal: Cactus Canyon remake featuring three selectable code versions: original Williams, Chicago Gaming new rules, and Josh Sharpe/Lyman Sheets new code (add-on purchase) on single machine

    high · Martin describing game holding all three versions with player selection capability; Sharpe/Sheets version being developed as separate offering

    • 3:43
    Yeah, I think we're all... Anybody who's sold anything up until like last year will regret the price they sold it for. The price has seemed to have gone crazy. But anyway, Funhaus, a new conversion kit has been brought out. And it's a collaboration between a number of different pinball companies or manufacturers. So it's Pedretti Gaming in Italy. who are leading on this. Now, Pedretti is maybe not a name which is instantly familiar to many people, but if you've been following the story of the remake of Alien by Pinball Brothers, it's being manufactured in Italy by Pedretti and sent all over the world from there. And they are a licensed Williams manufacturer or remanufacturer of pinball parts working through Planetary Pinball. Right, and they also do produce toppers for, for example, Williams games, in collaboration with Planetary Pimple. So it's not an official Williams product, but they have the license so they can do a topper for, I don't know, name a game, Twilight Zone, for example. if they want to do a topper for that, then they can, through Planetary it is arranged that they can do such a topper and that all parties are compensated properly. Right, and that they can use the artwork and the imagery from the original game. Right. All that. Right. Now, speaking of artwork, so this Funhouse Rudy's Nightmare is an upgrade kit, which is plug and play. easy to install because no drilling or screwing or anything is required.
    5:30
    It consists of a display panel with a new display. An LCD. Yeah, LCD. Full color, that is. There's also an LCD that goes on the playfield, replacing the mirror above the scoop. Yeah. There's new speakers included, there's a trans light included, and probably some other stuff that I'm... Well, the Pinsound board, a new fast pinball CPU board with all the new rules, there's some art blades that go on the inside of the cabinet as well, and I think that's probably about everything that's included in the kit, but it's an entire new speaker panel with new artwork on it and a new display and new speakers, as we said, and it isn't branded Williams anymore, it's branded Pedretti. So it doesn't say it's a Williams front-house vehicle, it does say Pedretti underneath the display panel. Right. Although, on your cabinet, it's still a Williams. Yes. The cabinet's still a Williams branded, and the playing field doesn't change other than the mirror, which I just mentioned. And the interesting thing is, it will give the game a new look, especially the back box with the translight and the speaker panel.
    6:56
    And while you're taking away the mirror from the original, it is possible to play both the original game and the new Rudy's Nightmare game. and when you play the original game the display will act as the original displays with the alphanumeric text and the mirror will act as the mirror and you get all the original sounds and music and voices that were in the original game rather than the ones which are in the new game right now the interesting thing is the announcement was sort of rushed because images already leaked on the internet.
    7:40
    And the funny thing was once I was informed that these images were out there it was posted on Pinsight and I think on Facebook as well.
    7:55
    I think on Facebook they were removed again. There was a topic on Pinsight when I looked at it there were only three people responding to it. So I was like okay, this is like a storm in a teacup, and since there's no news to report, why bother? And the interesting thing was that although the discussion sort of died, Pedretti themselves responded in that topic, saying there would be an announcement then and then, and basically hyping their own thread, which was causing them to rush things to come out as soon as possible. Yes, so you and I were in on this before the announcement, we were able to prepare articles for our respective outlets. Which I highly recommend for all pin the mold manufacturers to keep in mind to do so, because it gives us the opportunity to actually write a quality article upfront, instead of when something is announced and we have to find all the info ourselves. Yes, which we've done with other manufacturers as well, not all of them. Yes. Right. Yes. And, but no, many thanks to Janos, Eptin Pimble and Pedretti Gaming. Yeah. I had a Skype conversation with Andrea at Pedretti for some additional info. It was very collaborative and it was a very, very pleasant conversation. And I'm very impressed with how the kit looks. and based on the responses that I've seen, I'm not the only one. No, I think it's been very well received indeed. And I think originally when people saw it, maybe as a standalone kit, they thought, oh, maybe it doesn't look very good. But once you actually see it in the game, it just transforms it, I think. The pictures of the new translight and the display panel and the mystery mirror LCD panel as well, when installed with the Artblaze, it just makes it look like a completely different game. even though the shots are obviously the same, I think that's changed, but the whole rules are going to be different. There's completely new music, new sound, new voices as well.
    10:14
    The new sounds and music come from an Italian composer called Zanel, and the new graphics are from another Italian artist. You can see there's a certain Italian influence here. So that's from somebody called Morty Morty. and this relates to the fact that it's Pedretti who are, I think, the main drivers of this project but they have collaborated with, as we said, with Team Pinball in the UK, with Pinsound in France, Fast Pinball over in the US and Planetary Pinball, of course, are doing all the licensing and marketing for it over there as well and it's being sold through a whole number of different resellers, I think CoinTaker will won and I think Mr. Pimble Australia is probably selling it. Iris Gaming. Yeah. Freddy's.
    11:09
    Pimble Paradise. Yes, exactly. Pimble Heaven are selling it in the UK. So it's going to be made from lots of your favorite outlets and at a price of around about $2,000 US dollars and whatever that converts to in local currency. So it's, you know, for a game which, once upon a time, $2,000, you could have bought the game for that. But these days, it's probably... I wish I would have bought the game for $2,000. Probably $8,000 or $9,000 to buy the game now. So it's fitting two on it to transform it into a completely new version, with the old version already available as well. And then if you wanted to, you could sell off the display panel and the actual displays themselves if you wanted to, or the old translight if you didn't want to keep that. So you can get some money back on it as well. But, as you said, it's all removable as well. If you do decide to sell the game later and want to keep the kit, it's probably about an hour's work to take all the additions off and put all the original parts back on again. So it's a well-thought-out kit, and it's the first of a series of 2.0-type games. You may remember a long time ago we mentioned that Time Tree Pinball said they had announced they were going to bring out a whole series of new game code for various games, for various Williams games. But nothing really happened after that point.
    12:37
    Well, not entirely true. We didn't tell you what was happening. But apparently it took two years for Pedretti to develop this Funhouse kit. But their plan is, now that the wheels are set in motion, to release such an upgrade kit for one game every year. And there's quite a number of System 11 games that could be considered good titles for such an upgrade kit.
    13:13
    A 14-ton kit would be great. Yes, you could easily go back and look at either the biggest sellers or the most valuable games these days and see which ones are the likely candidates for the next .0 kit. So Bad Cats comes to mind, Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball.
    13:34
    I have my doubts about that one, personally. Without changing the playing field, I'm not sure that's ever going to be a huge success. But, yes, there are plenty of very, very popular titles out there. Well, one of the first titles mentioned was Whirlwind, which is obviously a generic license, I would say. So, yes, there are plenty of opportunities with that. Yeah, non-licensed titles would be a lot easier to do, of course.
    14:02
    Right, and at that time, most of the titles were unlicensed. I think one of the few licensed titles in there is Elvira and the Party Monsters.
    14:13
    And Bugspunny, as you mentioned. Yeah. But that was only after Belli joined Williams in 89. But yeah, and it could be interesting, we just mentioned what is in the kit, but I think we're going to see, after talking to Andrea Pedretti, I think they're going to offer two versions of the kit.
    14:41
    One with a topper custom made for this game, not the already existing pronounced topper that Prodretti is offering. And one without the topper. And the price you mentioned is the price probably is most likely to be in that area,
    14:58
    around that number, without the topper. and of course if there's a topper included then it's probably going to be slightly more. It's reasonable. You have a topper as well, so. Yes, we know how much toppers can sell for in some cases, almost as much as the entire kit.
    15:17
    Right. It's a lot ticker licensed one for a popular title. But anyway, so that's Rudy's Nightmare, One House Rudy's Nightmare, the 2.0 conversion kit from Pedretti. Very exciting. We will have more information on that. I think we're probably both planning to do follow-up articles, finding out more about the development of the system and the game, and where it's heading to go. Everybody's waiting for gameplay videos. The kit is currently actually not available yet. People could register and show their interest, and they will be... I believe they signed up for a newsletter or something like that. Yeah, they're not taking pre-order money at the moment, not until the kits are actually out there being produced. This is an order like an expression of interest. They can gauge how many to make and how many to send over to the various distributors. Yes, but it's a good indication to know how many to produce in the first place. Yeah, absolutely. So, good luck to them, and we look forward to seeing it and bringing you more news about it once it's available for more public play. Right, okay. And then, moving on from one upgrade to another, the Cactus Canyon remake by Chicago Gaming. Yes, you may remember we reported on this last time, and the Cactus Canyon is the latest remake to come from Chicago Gaming Company, and they announced there will be two versions, the limited edition and the standard edition, or special edition, I think is what they tend to call it, the SE, they call it the SE. Yes. And the limited edition was originally going to be limited, well, heavily limited, I think, and it sold out very, very quickly. And everybody liked, was intrigued at least, by the topper, the interactive topper that came with the limited edition and didn't come with the SE.
    17:16
    So the fact that it sold out so quickly and not many people were able to get their hands on one meant that a lot of people wanted to get that topper and couldn't, even if they bought the SE version, because the topper wasn't going to be made available as an upgrade that could be purchased later. So Chicago Gaming stuck to their guns and said, if you'll pardon the pun, and said that we're not going to make this available as an upgrade kit or an add-on that you can buy later, but what we will do is we will bring out an SE Plus edition, which will be like the SE, but will have the topper. So they now have three versions of the game, the SE, the SE Plus, and the LE. And the SE Plus, I believe, when it was announced, was priced the same as the LE was when it first came out, which is a bit odd, because it doesn't include anything else that the LE has other than that topper. So it doesn't have all the special armour, it doesn't have the wooden bottom arch, it doesn't have, well, shaker motor, all kinds of things. But anyway, what it does mean is that if you've got to have the topper, then there is a way to get it if you missed out on the LE. Right. So, yeah, it's still paying the same amount as for the LE. Yes. Who knows? Maybe, I don't know, but obviously making the topper available as an upgrade kit, that's kind of difficult. but art blades and all the other elements that were part of the limited edition that are currently not included in the special plus edition, that's not that difficult to upgrade, I suppose. No, I don't think it's a big problem to do that, but not everything is going to be available, the exact artwork for the side blades or the art blades. There might be other artwork that you think is more suitable. Yeah, well, it could well be, yeah. But the thing is, it's all extra cost on top, so you would spend a lot more by the time you finished upgrading the SE Plus to the equipment for an LE than if you'd bought an LE in the first place. Well, based on the number of people that bought the limited edition, I don't think money is an issue. No, no. Well, I think people were impressed by the price, because I've got, was it 9,250 or 9,500? for the LE, I think a lot of people were expecting it to be over 10,000 for it, and that's probably a good reason why it sold out so rapidly.
    19:55
    So I think, I mean, you're right, it's still a lot of money for a game, and people do throw all kinds of money at their pinball games to make them look better or improve them in various ways. So I don't suppose it... But I suppose in a way it gives you that kind of a la carte menu choice where you can pick and choose what you want to go into your game rather than paying up front for the whole lot. Right. Okay. So while we're on the subject of Chicago Gaming, you were in the U.S. More news on Chicago Gaming? Yes, indeed. Yeah.
    20:30
    Well, I was a number of places when I was over there, the first of which, well, the second actually of which was the first place that we can talk about now was at the IAPA trade show, which was held at the Orange County Convention Centre in Orlando, as it always is, every November. And this was my first time visiting it, and I'll talk a little bit more about it later. But Chicago Gaming had a stand there, and they had four of the Cactus Canyon remake games there, three of the standard ones, and one of the limited edition ones with the topper. And I got a good chance to play it, and actually find out how the topper worked, which wasn't how I thought it was going to work. So I'm not sure I'll spoil it for you, I might just leave that for you to find out when you get a chance to play it yourself. But Ryan White was there with Butch Peel, and they basically had a pretty basic stand I'd say. They were a little bit worried I think, because the show was at 10 o'clock, and I think by 9 o'clock in the morning they didn't have any games. it wasn't until about 9.30 that their machines actually turned up and they were able to quickly set them up in time for the show opening they were delayed by some mix up in the transport in getting them to Orlando but they did get them there in time and I think they were all played pretty much constantly throughout the three days of the trade part of the show so there's no huge amount of decoration on the stand I think it was pretty bare but I think if you look on the Pinball News site You can probably see some pictures of it from the IAPA report, which was a couple of weeks ago now. And, yes, while I was there, of course,
    22:17
    who would turn up but Rob Burke and his daughter Riley from Pinball Expo. So they were there with Ryan and with Butch, and so they've got a nice picture of them. And because they, Rob Burke, for those who don't know, outside of his expo activities, runs a catering supply company providing paper and plastic products to all kinds of catering companies in food supplies. Yeah, so all the napkins and... Yes, straws and cups and... Yeah. Yeah, all that stuff. Cutlery, all that kind of stuff. So they have a stand at IAPRA as well because it's an amusement show, trade show and he's a supplier to the amusement industry amongst others so they had us down there and we were able to go out for dinner that evening which was very nice indeed so thanks to Rob for that and good to see Riley there as well and they got a chance to play the game so that was, anyway, good match to Chicago Gaming so that was the first time I got to see Ryan at IAPA and then a few days later, Ryan joined me up in Sturbridge in Massachusetts at the Pintastic New England show, and he did a seminar about the Cactus Canyon remake, how it came about, some of their thoughts behind it, what they did, the decisions that they made, and also a little bit about the work that Josh Sharp and Lyman Sheets are putting in to develop some new code, which will effectively be the third set of code for that game, because the game already includes the original Williams code, but then also includes the Chicago Gaming Cactus Canyon version, and then you'll be able to buy, as an add-on, the Josh and Lyman version that they are currently developing. And the game will hold all three versions of the game, so you can pick the one that you want. So, if you want to watch Ryan, you can actually see what he had to say on the Pintastic New England YouTube channel. So go to YouTube and search for Pintastic New England. You will see Ryan White from Chicago Gaming doing his seminar. I'll take a look right now. Oh, okay. Well, just me then for now on, for the next hour.
    24:43
    Yes, so I think that's... I kid, I kid. Oh, you're back. Right, okay. But so a question of personal interest. At either of these two shows, did Chicago Gaming have flyers for Cactus Canyon? No, they didn't. No, not yet, I don't think. Obviously, no point, well, limited point bringing out flyers for the limited edition, because we sold them.
    25:14
    But that's what other companies do, yeah? On previous remake games, they had a flyer that on the back listed all three models and the features that they had. so if they would do a flyer, even if the limited edition would be sold out, it still makes sense to include the feature list on such a flyer. No, I haven't seen a flyer. They didn't have a flyer stand on their... or a flyer holder on their stand at IAFA. Right. I was just wondering. And there wasn't an official Chicago Gaming stand at Pintastic either. So there may have been some, but I didn't see any and I haven't got any. Okay. So that rounds it up for Chicago Gaming, I suppose. Yes, I think so, yeah. Okay. More good news from them anyway. They're busy times for them. I don't think they're in any sort of great hurry to go into production with this. People would think that, oh, yeah, let's get the games out as soon as we possibly can. They seem to be pretty laid back on their timescales, just generally. I doubt you'll see anything shit this year, to be honest. That's just my hunch. There's no official statement on that, but I don't think we'll see anything before January. Well, I wasn't in a hurry anyway, so... No. Well, I played it now, so that's done, yeah.
    26:38
    So did you play the new code as well? Yes, oh, absolutely, yeah. That's how I managed to get the topper to be activated. Yeah, OK. Yes, it certainly played well and it looked very good and I think the enhancements they made are definitely our enhancements I haven't seen anything that struck me as being odd Having said that, there was one little bit of metal that was right at the very back on which the bad guy sort of jumps up and down on and that looked a little bit rough but the rest of it looked absolutely fantastic And the lighting on the game is just amazing. So it just looks so... The colour effects they do when they turn the whole playfield one colour or another and cycle it. Excellent amount of work gone into that. They've spent the time developing the game wisely. Right, okay. So we have a third headline about Mini Pinball being introduced in China. I want to save that for the end of the show. And it's a different type of pinball, and I want to spark a little bit of curiosity here and there. And in the meantime, my phone is ringing, so our good friend Gary Flower is calling. Oh, Lars, good. Yeah, so do we have time for that now? Yeah, come on, bring it on. Okay, let me... We waited long enough. Oh, hold on, hold on. Oh, crap. What? Well, I have this issue that my phone is resetting randomly, and I picked it up to answer the call, and it just basically resets. You can't even call him back. Now it's basically rebooting.
    28:28
    Well, I'm sure he'll call you back. Hopefully he be back later on I suppose I sure he can understand things like this happen Yes those technical issues Gary is well acquainted with them Oh, yeah. If he's not the cause, then... Exactly. Okay, moving on.
    28:52
    American Pinball. Yeah, well, as we reported last time, Legends of Valhalla was announced, and very well received, I think, by everybody who saw the reveal.
    29:06
    Don, carry on. Yeah, if I may respond to that immediately, what I find very surprising in a good way, there was a lot of skepticism about the game up front, and when it finally was confirmed that it was Legend of Valhalla, still not everybody was convinced. And one of the news stories is that the game actually won Best Modern Pinball at Midwest Gaming Classic. That's right, yeah. Up against some stiff competition, one might say. Yeah, because Godzilla was also out there, and Mandalorian, and Guns N' Roses, I suppose, although that's last year's game, but still.
    29:51
    Yeah, so they were very pleased to receive that award. Yeah, but I'm very surprised to see that so many people apparently are liking the game. Yeah, well, I enjoyed playing it. I played it at IAPA. American Pinball had quite a large stand there. They had ten machines. They had four Legends of Valhalla's, four Hot Wheels, and two Houdini's.
    30:24
    No Oktoberfest? No Oktoberfest there, but it is going to be going back into production, apparently, according to David Fix, the Director of Operations and Marketing, and who I spent some time with at the show. I also got to spend some time with Steve Bowden as well, which was nice. Yeah, the latest employee. Yeah, and talk about a few things and not talk about some other things,
    30:56
    publicly or indeed privately probably either so about his time working with a deep group pinball so that's all behind him anyway he's enjoying his time and working with David at American pinball and I just just the process of moving up to back to the Chicago area anyway so he can be at the factory but yeah the legends of Valhalla was at was at MGC of course as we said where it won the best Modern Pinball Award. It was at IAPA as well, and also at Pintastic and Free Play Florida, which were both on the weekend after IAPA. Some machines, I think, went to Pintastic from IAPA, and some went to Free Play Florida. I didn't have to go very far, because that's just a few blocks up the street at another hotel on International Drive, so from the convention centre, so that was a nice easy journey for them. and yes, if you want to find out more about the making of American pinballs and Riot pinballs, Legends of Valhalla you can watch a seminar with David Fix from Pintastic which is, I'm not sure it's on there yet if not it will be soon on the Pintastic New England YouTube website we spoke about earlier I'll check it out right away and you're going to be busy watching videos aren't you? It definitely will be, yeah At that, David did confirm that Scott Gullix and Frank Gigliotti from Riot will be working on a second title for American Pinball. Okay, now I'm curious.
    32:35
    Could that second title be Rafa for the rest? Would he? Or could it be a new title? Oh, well, we'll have to see. Because obviously there's a lot of games in the pipeline for American Pinball. They've got Dennis Nordman working there. He's also working with some other designers as well to design their games.
    33:02
    And there's also the American Pinball American Dream competition, which was launched at Expo, as we reported on last time, where come October 2022,
    33:16
    there may well be another homebrew title, which American Pinball were going to take into production. Right, but that will still take time. Depends how far. Yeah, probably how the year will go. Well, first you have to win the competition, and then you still have to see how they're going to take it into production and where it fits in their schedule. So even if you win the competition, I'd say that game is at least 18 months away from now. Oh, from now? Yeah, I'd say it's probably a year from the moment they decided to make it. Yes. Because they're probably going to have to, you know, spec the voice parts that can be manufactured, probably produce new voice talent, new graphic talent, reprogram it to fit onto their board system. Right. Marketing-wise, if I were American Pinball, I would basically have the winner of the contest reveal their production machine at the Expo the year after,
    34:23
    if that matches their timeline and so on, and immediately pick a new winner, who will be at the show next year. Yeah, have a rolling competition. Every year you pick next year's winner, next year's machine, and reveal this year's machine. Yes.
    34:41
    And then there was, well, it wasn't news from American Pinball, It was news from another company. Yeah. But it is interesting to note that Michael Grant, who was working in the sales department, and as such also in charge of the marketing of their games, left after Pinball Expo and joined Stern Pinball. Yeah, absolutely.
    35:11
    Obviously, companies don't tend to announce people leaving them, only appointments. Well, it depends how happy they are that they are gone. Well, I don't think any of them are particularly happy to see that they're gone. But yeah, Michael had been at American for a while, and he left there to join Stern Pimple as a marketing manager there, working under Zach Sharp. So they're going to... Michael was... I don't want to make this into too repetitive a theme, But Michael was also at Pintastic and did a seminar there where he spoke about his new job at Stern, his time in America and his whole career and experiences within pinball. So he was saying that he's really going to be sort of boosting up the Stern Army initiative, taking that into new locations, trying to promote pinball on location a lot more, which through a whole bunch of new initiatives as well as the Insider Connected system as well so there's a lot of work to do there and so he'll be working with Zach to do that and we'll be hearing more from him I'm sure over the coming months and years ok so that's another video that I have to watch you ought to have gone you wouldn't have to watch any of this I wish I was able to Okay, but well, congrats To Michael Grant For landing a job at CERN, I suppose I'm not sure Now, first If I look back at this This year, although it's not December yet Although technically it is Yes, I realize that, but it's not the end of the year yet So we have Steve Ritchie leaving CERN for Jersey Jack And so they start scouting around Who can we steal? And then they end up with Michael Grant at American Yeah, and equally American have got Steve Bowden from Deep Root. Right. And part of Steve's job is in marketing as well. So he'll be working alongside David Fix there.
    37:23
    To be honest, when we saw that David had been appointed as Director of Operations and Marketing to American Pinball, there seemed to be something of an overlap between what he would be doing and what Michael would be doing. So it's not that Stephen is going to be replacing Michael? No, well, no. I think part of his responsibilities will be towards sales. That's true.
    37:51
    But also, David's in charge of operations and marketing. So as we saw with the launch of Legends of Valhalla, there's an awful lot of marketing push going on there with the Ping Game Journal being sent out to everybody that is or was ever a subscriber to that magazine. and worked with us in order to get the launch articles ready and get the marketing material out there. And Michael was part of that as well. So Dave's come up with a whole bunch of new initiatives, and in particular, I think one of his most popular or most favourite, his favourite part was making sure that the game was out on location for people to play on the very day that it was announced officially. so I think that's something they want to do a lot more, and he has a lot of ideas of ways to promote pinball both on location and home sales and to boost American pinball's visibility I think ok, so I suppose that covers all the news for American pinball yes I think so which company do you want to discuss next well we were just talking about Stone so I suppose it makes sense to talk about them now. Right, okay, hold on. Oh, is he trying again? He's trying again. Let me, let me, oh, forget it.
    39:19
    No? Oh. My phone is rebooting again. Oh, you need to get a new phone, man. Go. Or sort that one out. Yeah, right. Well, I'm not saying that we're not going to speak to Gary on this show, but I still have hopes that the view will go back. Yeah. Sorry. That's all right.
    39:43
    Well, we're talking about Stern, aren't we? Yes. We're just about to pick up with the news that's been coming out of Stern Pinball. And you may remember we reported before on how there was a new Alvaro's House of Horrors game coming out, the 40th edition of that game. Well, apparently number... Yes, you're absolutely right, yeah, 40th anniversary. And machine number 001, serial number 001 of that, apparently went to Elvira. Maybe that's not entirely surprising, but I don't think it was ever announced at the time. But it did, and... Well, I say it went to her. I don't think it physically ever went to her, because it's actually now up for auction at Julian's Auctions. so if you want to own 0.01 of Alvarez 40th Anniversary Edition then you can bid until 10am on the 4th, specific time this is, on the 4th of December so a couple of days if you listen to this podcast as soon as it comes out it's currently, at the time I looked earlier $17,500 but only 3 bids on it it's It's possible there'll be a big rush of bids at the end. One bid by Gary and one bid by Elvira.
    41:06
    Well, I say, it's supposedly the property of Elvira, but according to the auction listing, it needs to be collected from the sperm factory in Elk Grove, and it's suggested never actually left there.
    41:17
    It's not a machine that Elvira ever touched. No, well, no, it'd probably be more expensive if she had. So if that's something for those completists or those who'd like to have the serial numbers of 001, there's your chance to bid on that. And good luck to you. I'd be interested to see, and we'll report next time, what they actually sold for.
    41:39
    Right. Sorry if I was keeping you up. Stern also have been on TV, haven't they? Yes, on the History Channel, in the US, that is.
    41:52
    There was a program called Modern Marvels, and the host of the show basically took a stern tour and that was broadcasted on Sunday November 28th probably repeated I guess I was going to say knowing the History Channel that's probably going to be repeated it hasn't been already yes virtual listings if you subscribe or can receive History Channel for Modern Marvels chances are that segment is also available on YouTube although I didn't check yet. Hmm, okay. Well, if you fancy doing that, then have a look for History Channel. They might even make that entire program available if somebody hasn't done it already. Right. And, well, you visited America and attended a couple of shows. Stern also attended several shows, including the San Diego Comic-Con Special Edition, where they were represented at the nuclear blast stand with some Godzilla games, which were provided by Orange County and Bimbles. That's correct, yes. And they were in good attendance at the Houston Arcade Expo, thanks to Marco. They had a very, very nice display of the Stern games, mostly concentrating on Godzilla, of course, as their current title. but they also had a whole range of other machines including the Mandalorian one of which was actually a giveaway well not a giveaway, a raffle prize I should say and they had Avengers and they also had the, it wasn't just the pro version of Godzilla they also had four premium models as well which was nice to get a chance to play that and see the differences between that I'd only played the pro up until that point and I have to say the premium is a very nice game. I think the extras are on it, the Mechagodzilla rotating target bank ramp thing and the way the building at the back moves up and down and locks balls on top and the bridge as well. Although the bridge seemed a little bit of a... Something that happens so quickly you don't really notice what's going on because you just shoot the wall at the ramp and the bridge fractures and it falls off. But it all happens so quickly, you don't really notice it. I think they probably did a little more lighting. Choreography. Yeah. In order to stress what's going on. But the building itself is very impressive. And quite simple in the way it works, I think, as well as the way it unlocks the vault. But you can see all that anyway, I'm sure, online if you haven't seen it already. So they had a very nice display there And they were also present at Pintastic of course Where they had Really sort of showcasing the Insider connected system there Because Michael Grant Who we spoke about earlier was there With John Borg and they were setting up all the machines And connecting them up on a network They were using Ethernet To connect the games together So people could use the Insider connected system on them They had a very nice display there as well I forget how many exactly.
    45:16
    Are you telling me that Michael Grant was lured in as a marketing director and that he ends up being the roadie for Stern at events? Well, he and John Borg were there setting the games up. They both admitted they'd never done this before, but the fact that they were able to do it fairly quickly once they'd realized that it was a wired connection they needed, not a wireless one, then I guess that's a testament to how simple it was to get those games online. Okay. Right, so now for a second I was worried that they were both on their knees literally setting the games up on their legs No, not on their legs, they were scrabbling around underneath or down by the coin door going through all the menus and I think John was doing that and Michael was around the back plugging in Ethernet cables and things like that so yes, a little bit like that Any word on when we can expect John's new game? No, he's not I think given the backlog of titles Or machine orders Which Sterner have at the moment I don't think they're Making any commitments As to when new releases are going to come out Okay Now, speaking of new releases There have been some new releases Of Code A very special Thanksgiving update, so to speak Yes, indeed And for quite a number of games.
    46:41
    Most of these updates have usually, I let this boring section be handled by you, but this time I'll handle it. Yeah, yeah.
    46:51
    Most of these updates are basically updates to integrate the Stern Insider Connected program, the reader, and what have you. And the games that have new code available, Avengers Infinity Quest Black Knights War the Rage Deadpool Elvira's House of Horrors Iron Maiden Jurassic Park Led Zeppelin and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles so that's basically every game they released the last I'd say three years doesn't include what does it include? Stranger Things or Guardians of the Galaxy either Well, that's an older title. Yeah, but it's an LCD game, though, which is a Spike 2 game. Oh, well, the rest will be in the Christmas update that you sort of can expect. Stern is known for doing such massive code updates, I would say, around the holidays. Although they do have updates throughout the year as well, as you know, from previous episodes of our Pincast. Anyway.
    48:09
    Yeah, we're not going through all the details of the code, but as you said, it's pretty much around the entire Connected. But there are some other updates and a few bug fixes for most of those games as well. That's all we need to say about it, to be honest, because there's so many of them, and they're all quite minor and, dare I say it, boring details, unless you have the game. Thank you for keeping me awake. Yeah, in which case you can go and have a look yourself. So what do we think they're currently building in the factory there at Strand? Well, I know for the past month they have been building a Mandalorian. They have been building the pin version of Jurassic Park, which is the Jack Danger design game. He signed his first game. Yes, I saw that. It was about to be boxed up. sort of building that and I expect them to have been building Godzilla as well yeah well they did have a Jurassic Park pin at the show as well that I was at and that was very popular and being played constantly so I think it was yeah it could be a good one for them I think there's another game which normally pin games don't no pin range of games I should say don't normally get that hotter reception when they're first released because they're not really aimed at the us really, they're more at the casual buyer shall we say. Who doesn't know what they're buying. Yeah, this one a full size looking pinball even if it doesn't have a full size display but this one I think seems to have broken the mould and seems to have been well received by everyone so congratulations to Jack and the team behind that. What I was wondering about, and this is just between you and me, but thanks for listening, those listening, who might chime in as well if they feel like it. This Jurassic Park pin has an MDF playfield. It does. Which makes me wonder, is MDF that much cheaper than regular plywood, what they use for their other games? Does it make that much of a difference? I would have thought it would have been harder in some regards when it comes to routing holes in it, and mounting, we've actually seen when we looked at the top surface of that game, there are quite a lot of mounting rivets on the top surface of the game for mechanisms that are under the game, it's like you can't, as you can with plywood, you can screw things in from the bottom, the bottom just using standard screws and they'll hold because the wood being wood will sort of expand and hold the screws in whereas MDF doesn't work like that so they have to have to build them or mount the mechanisms in a very different way which can sometimes look a little bit ugly but you can get around that mostly with the artwork but as it whether it's cheaper I don't know you I guess you don't get the the dimples that you would get in plywood because it's much harder surface. Other than that, I don't know, because it probably doesn't, I was going to say it doesn't warp, but plywood doesn't warp really, as in the playfields that we have now, so I don't know. Good point though, is it? Why do they do it? The cabinet's MDF as well, we know that. So it's a heavy game. A heavy game? MDF is, yeah. It's heavier than plywood, yeah. Yeah, but you bolt it together, don't you?
    51:54
    It is bolted rather than glued, and so it's a different type of construction. But yeah, I'm sure it would be interesting to see what the cost breakdown for that is. Right, okay.
    52:09
    And then there's... I'm not sure whether I read it or whether I heard it. Let's call it a rumour. We don't do rumours. Oh, okay, then we don't. But if we did, what would we be rumoring? The rumoring would be that Stern is either building more Beatles games or testing the waters with distributors, whether they are interested in more Beatles games.
    52:40
    But I can think of several distributors that still have Beatles games that are difficult to sell, apparently. so I don't see that much need for a rerun or an additional run of the game yes but that's something I heard and I can't remember where I heard it or read it so let's just put that on the rumor mill and don't take anything regarding that for good I'm glad we didn't mention it ok moving on then yes Well, let's move across the street, I suppose. Okay, so what's been going on with Jersey Jack Pinball in the month of November? Well, what caught my eye was a big image on Facebook that Jersey Jack Pinball is hiring. Yeah, we've mentioned this before, but they're still looking for quite a lot of different skills, aren't they? Yes. In quite a few positions. Yes, they are looking for assembly workers, where soldering experience is a plus. They're looking for a warehouse associate.
    53:59
    I have no idea what that is. No. I'm a warehouse associate, you're a worker. Okay, and they're looking for people to work in customer service and fulfillment, a logistics specialist, a production planner, and a team lead. Now, if they're looking for all these people, if they are currently don't have them, I'm really surprised that anything gets done there, but it's not necessarily the case that the people who were in these positions left and it could also be that they are setting up their second assembly line and they just need more people but in case you're in the area and you fancy working at jersey jack pinball in one of these positions and make sure to reach out to jersey jack pinball i think the email is a career at jerseyjackpinball.com or something like that But look it up on Facebook and you'll see for yourself where to send your application if you're interested. And in case you're, well, I think they have quite a backlog of Guns N' Roses games to build. So what's keeping you from applying? I mean, get in there so they can build more games. Yeah, they certainly have been building games, so they're not lacking all these people at the moment, but it could well be that they want to rebalance the responsibilities. Maybe some people, their jobs have grown so much that there's enough work there for two people, and they're bringing more people on board to help out.
    55:45
    But yeah, we'll be interested to know what some of these posts actually involve, and what's team lead? what team are they leading right what also caught my eye was a post that Eric Meunier would do a seminar about at Pintastic where he would be revealing juicy secrets juicy secrets, ah well did he reveal juicy secrets well there's a certain amount of secret stuff that was shown there was a number of videos within the Guns N' Roses game, which have to be accessed via various flipper codes, and some of them, including one of a special family moment of his, which I won't tell you about anymore, because, as I said before, and I'll probably say it again at some point doing this, if you want to watch that for yourself, you can go to the New England YouTube channel, where you can watch Eric talk all about the making of Guns N' Roses and his collaboration with Slash and the rest of the band and all the fun that they had doing that. And it was very interesting, you know. Most of the time I would say,
    57:02
    a lot of these seminars I've heard a lot of these stories before, but this was riveting stuff and I was very happy to sit there for the entire hour and listen to Eric talk about the making of Guns N Roses Okay right So Josie Jack being at Pintastic with a large number of representatives or only a small number of people? No, it was just Eric and Jack and there was also their very latest recruit,
    57:35
    Mr. Seaton, who was there. So there was Steve and Pat weren't there, so I guess we had half the design team there. Okay. That's quite good, and Jack himself. And I was honoured to be asked to interview Jack at a fireside chat to talk about Jack's career and his life in pinball. and basically all about where he's come from, where he sees the business now, where he sees the business going. And unlike today, we did actually manage to get a special guest on the phone.
    58:17
    A certain Mr. Gary Flower, who joined us. You got to meet. Yeah. I suppose miracles do happen. They do. Yeah, probably because it was about, what would have been, what, one o'clock in the morning, I think, his time, where we called him up to get him on. So, he had been on, but sadly not made it onto this particular episode yet. Well, we're not done yet. No. It's still a call. I did say yet. My phone seems to be holding up right now, so. Well, fingers crossed then. But again, if you want to see that, go over to YouTube, Fantastic New England channel, and you can watch my interview with Jack and hear Gary. Yeah. Okay.
    59:04
    Well, I'll do that just to find out if you mentioned anything about Steve coming on our show. Yeah, it's not that I recall. I think that maybe is one of those subjects that we don't talk about in public too much.
    59:22
    Too bad. Yeah, unfortunately. It's exactly what we wanted to talk about in public. But maybe sometime, some way down the road, when the dust has settled a little more, we'll be able to do that. How much dust does it need to do? Well, you don't know how much dust there is until it's all settled.
    59:41
    Right. Okay. I suppose that's all the news from Jersey Jack Pinball. Obviously, they're still building Guns N' Roses. They haven't announced any new title yet. No, no. That's one of the questions I asked Jack, of course, is about how come they've got so many designers, and yet they're going to be building Guns N' Roses for probably the next year. And we know what the next title is, and now you have a whole bunch of full designers there working away on new games. At the current rate, it's always a decade's worth of production there. Right.
    60:19
    Which doesn't make a lot of sense. Anyway, you can hear what he has to say about that for yourself on the recording. Right, okay. So, any preference in which company we discuss next? No, not really. Let's do the next one on our list, I think, is Haggis Pinball, I think. Yeah. I think Jamie and the team down in Australia are busy, very busy by the looks of things, getting all the parts and assemblies ready for production of Celts. Well, they're certainly busy posting photos on the vessel. That's true. No videos this month. There was a video last month, but nothing new in the past month. But there is, as I say, plenty of pictures of parts, boxes of parts, assemblies, all ready to be built into Kelts games and some Kelts games have gone out apparently and been received by customers in the US so it is happening I think but the concentration on Kelts there's no news of any progress on Fathom revisited those people who ordered that game no suggestion when any kind of production on that's going to begin or indeed whether the parts are available yet so well moving on to well you were in Texas I was you didn't hop by San Antonio I didn't I drove from Dallas down to Houston but didn't seem awful on a point going to San Antonio which isn't that far away to be fair but there were plenty of empty buildings I could have gone and looked at without driving all the way to San Antonio. So there didn't seem a lot of point, and I didn't fancy trying to do any dumpster diving to see if there's any juicy tidbits to be found at the bottom of a skip or a dumpster, because I suspect the whole area is probably a little delicate at the moment, shall we say, with what's been going on, because what has happened in the past month is that the landlord who owns the premises in San Antonio, where Deep Root were, are, headquartered, Deep Root Tech, anyway, headquartered, they have applied to the court that is hearing the SEC case and requested and been granted permission to start showing prospective buyers around the building. Buyers, not even tenants? No, not tenants. I think the landlord wants to sell the property. It's a bad luck property.
    63:08
    It's cursed, yes. Something like that. But they did promise that they wouldn't disturb or otherwise interfere with anything belonging to Deep Root there, because obviously there's stuff in that. I was wondering about that. Is there still stuff in there, or has it all been taken out? No, I think some of the, I won't say manufacturing equipment, but some of the fabrication equipment, which they bought to do PCBs and things like that, for no obvious reason, that's all still there. I don't think that's been taken away yet. So it looks like a high-waste pinball facility? Well, before the Pinball Brothers moved in and everything away.
    63:54
    Lots of machinery, no games. Yes, absolutely. I think Deep Root, I think Robert bought his stuff new, whereas Andrew tended to buy his stuff from auctions,
    64:06
    from company equipment auctions for bargain basement prices. I don't think a new bargain basement would describe the stuff which was bought for Deep Root. If you got texted with 60 million to spend, why would you? Exactly, yeah, it's not your money. Yeah. So, okay. So that's all the news regarding DeepRoot? I think so, yeah. Yeah. It still makes me wonder if they moved out all the prototype stuff that's supposed to be there, where did it go?
    64:36
    Yeah. I'm sure that will come up as assets, which will look to be liquidated one from another. I don't think anybody is going to try and squirrel those away in their home and hope nobody remembers that there was a prototype.
    64:55
    Is it going to be put into a storage auction with a red tape around it, like, okay, seized by the court or something like that? Yeah, until the assets can be liquidated, yes.
    65:11
    Okay. So, in the beginning of our podcast, we already mentioned the Pinball Brothers. We did. And so any news regarding the production of Alien? Yes, your favourite subject. There's new code. Yay!
    65:31
    What a great time to get some tea. Yes. In fact, there are two code updates in November. The first one, version 2.3, came out on the 3rd, which did fix a whole bunch of bugs. and expanded the range of adjustments, and I suppose they improved the communication method that they were using between the main controller board and the sub-boards to improve reliability there. And then in version 2.14, it came out 11 days later on the 14th, they fixed a bug I think they introduced in the earlier one, which was a bit of a difficult one, because it was a switch detection bug, which caused some switches not to be detected until another switch had been triggered, which is a bit of a problem if you shoot the ball into a lock or a kick-out, or it's sitting there on the switch, and no other switches can be activated unless you're in multi-ball. So it just sits there, and so this bug fixed will fix that, as well as apparently fixes an issue with the xenomorph tongue calibration, which starts when the game starts and could cause the game to hang at that point. There is apparently still a bug where occasionally, if you're doing a two-player game, when you add player two to the game after player one has started, it restarts the game when you start with a new game. That's something they're aware of and will be fixed in an upcoming update. Okay, in the meantime my phone well, it's functioning so I texted Gary that if he wants to call fingers crossed that it will go as planned, after all Right, okay We'll wait to see whether he actually does get back to you on the 3rd In the meantime Yes, home pin in Taiwan Yes Well, that's interesting Mike has been showing pictures on Facebook of assemblies and parts arriving for their upcoming game This is Final Tap Yeah, very much like Haggis, I mean Yes Although we haven't seen a complete game yet We haven't even seen a complete playfield yet No But he did show some purple metallic body armour I think he showed some blue aprons, which I figured could be for Thunderbirds, but... Are they still making those? No, I doubt it. I thought so. There were quite a few of those aprons, probably, I don't know, 20, something like that. So I assume that they were for... This is Final Tap. Now, whether there's going to be different versions of it, I don't know. Maybe with a purple body armor on some and blue on others. I don't know. But in the description it said that they'd come back from the powder coating and they were blue. And other ones said that the body armor had come back and it was purple.
    68:50
    So, I don't know. We'll have to wait and see. They're still experimenting with certain colors. I don't know. Although I am curious because I do recall Mike explaining to us that he had to ship games to one of the London stores for an anniversary event before the end of the year, and we're only one month away from that. So I'm very curious whether he will actually manage to do that in time. Yeah, it's going to be a bit tight, I thought. I'm not sure exactly what the anniversary is, but yes, it did seem to be almost like a contractual obligation to get the game to the movie company in time for the anniversary. Right. And what Mike also showed, and I suppose this is rather interesting, is the home-pinned version of Ice Cold Beer, which is not a pinball, but a... Well, what do you call it, actually? A skill game. Yes. With an upright playfield, slightly tilted, where you have to move a ball around holes where it can drop through.
    70:03
    And if it drops through the wrong hole, then I suppose it's game over. But if you drop it in the right hole, then you level up. And the idea is to increase levels, well, like with a video game, but you start over at the bottom every time with the ball.
    70:26
    I watched Robert Gangnam play that game in Vancouver, the original Ice Cold Beer one, and that was really amazing. I mean, he just, I think he finished the game like six or seven times. Wow.
    70:48
    Still in the same game, so the game would reset and he would start over again at the bottom and completed again all levels six, seven times in a row.
    70:58
    It was really amazing. But anyway, Home Pin designed a version of their own, I suppose for the Asian market.
    71:13
    It doesn't have a name yet, to avoid any copyright issues I suppose. Their playfield is different than the original Ice Cold Beer one, which just has a bunch of round holes. Yeah, basically like beer bubbles, I think. That's the idea. Right, yeah. And, well, in this case, it's squares and triangles and circular-shaped holes.
    71:41
    And much to my surprise, I actually read that the original Ice Cold Beer is also still being manufactured. It is, it was at IAPA, there was a company there, they had some refurbished games, which the original games are made by Tato, and they had a couple of refurbished ones. They also had a brand new version as well, which they've gone to extraordinary lengths to make work in the same way as the original, even down to crafting their own joysticks in order to make that exactly look and feel exactly the same as the original ones. and they are talking to the company owner there and he was saying that they were actually running the same code as the original Ice Cold Beer and they are emulating it using, I think it was a Raspberry Pi or it might have been an Arduino.
    72:38
    So the gameplay is exactly the same although they're using newer parts. They're using stepper motors now to move the bar that the ball sits on up and down. But other than that, the gameplay will be smoother than the original, it works up a little bit more reliable, and plays exactly the same as far as the rules go. Okay, so now you have, well, ice cold beer, or a Taiwanese knockoff. Okay, that's not very nice, I suppose, but yeah, a similar game. The interesting thing is, while this is a home-pin design, The game was actually manufactured by a company called Ouichi in Taiwan, who we also know as the manufacturer of a head-to-head pinball machine that uses ping-pong balls, which I think was shown at the Amusement Expo two years ago. Was that the Pac-Man one? No, Space Invaders. Yes, but that company is very big in cabinets and all sorts of stuff like that.
    73:59
    And Mike showed the, I suppose either he shared the idea with them or he showed them the prototype and they figured this is a good game for us to build. So while Mike is finishing up this final tab,
    74:16
    Ouija has taken the Taiwanese ice cold beer into production, although there is a glass, a room for a glass plaque at the top that has a name on it. The game has no name yet. and Mike suggested to do a sort of a contest where people can suggest a name for the game in response to the Pinball Magazine newsletter.
    74:49
    I still have to reach out to him and see if we're actually doing that, but I thought it was a fun idea, so why not? Would the name be English? Would it be Chinese? or... Well, that depends on the market where it's going, I suppose. Yeah, exactly.
    75:04
    Well, it's available to buy now, apparently, if you want to contact Wee Chee in Taiwan, but you have to order a minimum of ten,
    75:14
    apparently. So, even without a name yet, you can still order it, but I guess it will be made to production. It was interesting looking at how it worked. As you said, they used different shapes to the round holes that the ice cold beer had. And looking at the circuit ball behind it looked like there were 15 possible targets, circular holes that you could, that the game would randomly, semi-randomly, light one of them, and you have to guide the ball into it in order to level up to the next one, which moves you a little further up the playfield, which is the same as the ice cold beer one, where they had certain numbers that you had to drop the ball into. So it's the same principle but I guess the circuitry inside it is somewhat more modern. And I don't know if it's actually using home pin circuit boards inside. Not sure either, but Weechee is very capable of doing their own. Okay.
    76:18
    Yeah. Okay. So, going back to America, I suppose. Yeah. Unless you have other notes. No, that's all I got. Okay. Well, Spooky Pinball, of course, well, we had Midwest Gaming Classic at the beginning of November, which is not the usual month for Midwest Gaming Classic, but, well, COVID and so on, you know, you know the drill.
    76:46
    And Spooky had a booth with, I think they had a Halloween and Ultraman present. Yes, that's correct. Which is the current games that they are manufacturing at the same time. And, well, all the spooky swag that we're familiar with. they announced today that there will be a code update coming for both Halloween and Ultraman this Friday which is December the 3rd and another code update around the holidays with some expert level modes in each game so more Michael Myers murder modes and more Kaijuji battles Very nice of them. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so that's something to look forward to. They also posted a picture of the knife handle shooter rods that are available for Halloween. And they will be starting to ship those for those who purchase them, or install them immediately on the game if it's not been built yet, I suppose.
    78:10
    That's an assumption on my end, so don't... If they're just shipping them, then they're not installing them. But I figured they would be installing them on a game if you already bought the game, but it hasn't been built. Yes, yes.
    78:28
    And similar to, I remember with previous games, that if you had a custom plastic set or something like that, they could install it right away, so why not with this shooter. Yeah, so all we do there for the cabinet art is that you order the butter finished cabinet art and they'll install that for you. Right okay, don't know what I heard, I thought you were unpopping a bottle of champagne. Oh I wish, yeah. And they also exhibited at the Days of the Dead in Chicago with, again, Halloween and Ultraman machines. And something not listed on the list that Martin and I are looking at, but apparently Boan Cairns, who was an employee for Spooky, or consultant, if you wish, regarding rules for games like Rick and Morty and trying to think, maybe Alice Cooper, I'm not sure. But apparently he doesn't work for Spooky anymore. And that was not by his choice. if you heard anything about it but it was announced at the beginning of the month it sort of leaked out on Pinside and then Bowen made a comment on it on his own Facebook page not sure whether that's a good sign or a bad sign or maybe Bowen got a better offer or he figured he could do both I have no idea what the inside scoop of the story is, the bottom line is.
    80:22
    They parted ways, but I didn't sense any animosity. No, okay. Although you did say that it wasn't at Bones' request that they're not working together. It wasn't his wish that that happened. Anyway, that's a shame when that happens. Obviously he's got a lot of knowledge and a lot of experience he can bring to Walsett, and let's hope that Spooky are able to replicate or fill in the gap that is left by his departure.
    81:03
    Right, so that's all the news that I could find for Spooky Pinball. I'll take Dutch Pinball as well Yeah, you normally do I hope so Yeah, so Dutch Pinball Is Building the Big Lebowski Still They will be building, hopefully, the Big Lebowski For, well, quite some time I suppose They're Back on track after supply chain issues that cause things to slow down.
    81:44
    The good news is now that they're back on track, that allows them also to hire more full-time assembly workers to work on the Big Lebowski. So they placed an ad on their Facebook and probably also in local media as well. I was able to talk to Barry about two weeks ago. He was at an event that we both attended, so I briefly talked to him about it, and he was at the stage that he was interviewing several people, which resulted in me asking how many people he was looking for, and he indicated he was hoping to hire three assembly workers. So that's I suppose quite a step up unless the others left.
    82:34
    But, well, obviously that's something we don't know. I'm assuming that he's expanding the team in order to increase production now that supply chain issues have been solved. That's all the news that I have to report on Dutch Pimble. Right. You don't know whether he's had any people applying for those positions yet. No, I know that he I think he mentioned he had four people coming in for interviews and he was looking to hire three of them. Oh, good news then. Okay, so he's getting applications. Yeah, so I so hope that whoever has applied to the job and had an interview is not listening to this. He didn't get the job because... There!
    83:23
    Oh, dear. 75% chance of getting the job and still no luck. Yeah. Oh, well. Always next time. Yeah, so... Okay. Oh, well, speaking of next time... Oh! Here we go again. Oh, come on! Come on. Hold up, home. Come on. Okay. You can work. Let's hear what Gary has to say. He's got some big news, I know.
    83:46
    And again, I have to... apologize. I don't know what it is with my phone. I definitely need a new one. I'm probably going to start a fundraiser. Yeah, go fund me. Or go phone me.
    84:01
    Yeah, it's probably like that because this is obviously, it doesn't, I don't know. Then again, well, the phone is five years old. People told me, what? You use a phone that's five years old? Apparently that's a miracle on its own. Well, I'm surprised that the dial on the front is still working. well never had any issues with it great ok they got them to last but obviously only for 5 years ok so anyway moving on from phone talk let's look at our next pinball company because there are quite a lot of them it's nice to be able to say look at the next company because you know we've gone through a good number of them and we've still got a few to go yet so let's talk about Multimorphic because as you said I was in Texas and Multimorphic are in Texas and they were at the Houston Arcade Expo which was a really fun show congratulations to Keith and everyone there who helped put that show on, a really, really different show with a huge amount of music playing throughout and very nice to hear that and some of it was kind of like 8-bit music and you wonder what on earth it is and then gradually it sort of builds up and becomes really, very musical indeed, so it was an eye-opener and an ear-opener So well done for them. And multiple people there with two P3 machines, one of which was mostly fitted out with the Cosmic Kart Racing CCR playfield, or upper playfield module, which they were using to showcase their Sources Apprentice game, which I got to play and thoroughly enjoyed it. Once I got the hang of it, it was actually quite easy. It was a bit of an initial learning curve, but as soon as Jerry pointed out to me you know you can pick this and that and then these eyes eyes like that colour and then it all made a huge amount of sense and then it required quite a lot of interaction with the extra buttons on the side as well to pick the right spells to use at any particular time in the game. And it was good fun. And the light shows, of course, using the CCR play field with all those RGB LEDs on it. It just looks amazing. So that was great. And the other game was playing Heist, which was also the first time I got to play that. and that was hugely fun as well. I think they got two great games there and they were again, as with most of the machines at that show, those two were in constant use from the moment the doors opened in the morning to the show closed at night. So congratulations to Multimorphic on that and on those on one of those machines they're also showing some new generic P3 cabinet and backbox artwork. So they have those magnetic decals which apply to the side of the cabinet and the side of the back box, and they have a new set of non-game specific P3 artwork which goes on there and look very nice. Okay, so I suppose that's the news for Multimorphic. I think it is, yeah. But, well, good for them, they're still going strong I would say. Yeah I think so, yes they're very busy building both full machines and the modules as well. There's a bit of a delay I think on getting a full machine because of the amount of time it takes to sort all the parts for one, but the modules apparently can just be purchased within week or two I think. Okay, okay, very cool. So moving on to our good friend Andrew from Pinball Adventures I would say. This is a, well I'm not going to steal your thunder, you did all the digging on this so you take it away. Okay, well you may remember the last few months we've been saying the The Pimble Adventures website, pimblebuzz.com, was down and just had a sort of holding page that said, Coming soon. Well, it has come soon. Well, sooner or later, anyway. Well, whatever you call soon. Yes. It's there now.
    88:18
    It seems to be a little bit of a work in progress because not everything is working fully on there. There's a few links that don't work or link to the wrong thing. But, yes, the website is back, and it says that Pony Factory and Elements are available now. which is new, because we haven't seen any actually for sale or being made, but I guess they're available to order now. And there are some other games on there as well. We did talk about some of these before, and I'm not sure all the same titles are still there, and there might be some new ones. There's one called That's Whack, that's W-A-C-K, Forsaken Ninja, Sushi Mania, I think is a familiar one, That's a familiar one. Yeah. And Fruit-O-Matics as well is a new one, I think. That one might be a sort of... Actually, I don't know what it's about. But it does... I'd say it seems to be a bit of a work in progress. Some of the things don't link to what they should do, and not all of them have got pictures. But there's an awful lot of cartoony artwork for some of these games. Like, somebody's gone to a lot of effort to draw up stories or backgrounds to the concept behind them. So go and have a look on pimplebuzz.com, pimplebuzz, all one word. And there's also some information about the Element game, which apparently has two displays. There's a top box with a display, as well as the sort of regular speaker panel type display. Yeah, that's the game with the back glass with no cutouts for a display. Yeah. It has the speakers mounted on top of the back glass with the display up there. Yeah. Yes. But there is another display as well. So it's got two displays that game. So one at the very top, I don't know, I guess the other one's on the playfield somewhere. And there are also some rather strange products as well to buy. Things which you probably never thought you'd need. But they are there. And there are things like... I know pinball companies that make that sort of their catchphrase. We built the games you didn't know you wanted. Yeah. So maybe they're onto something. Maybe, or maybe they're building things that you really don't want.
    90:51
    Or need. Those are sort of interesting things. One of them is called Pimple Wedge, which isn't any description of what it is, because it's kind of like, if you can imagine a sort of baby's dummy or pacifier type thing, shape, if you stick a magnet in the base of that, then you can stick it in the, probably reduced size, put it in the shooter lane, so it clamps onto the, you know, magnetically clamps to the metal strike plate opposite where the ball kicks out. Right. Okay. Then that thing will kind of block the kick-out hole for the ball, which means that when you lift the plate holder, the ball sits all out.
    91:36
    Okay. So far, so good. Yeah. Not too bad. I mean, you could just stuff a rag in the hole, of course, and then the ball fell, but either. When everybody dies or everybody... Or take the ball and fail. Exactly. Yeah. Well, you can get one of these pinball wedges instead and use that, and it costs $30, if that's what you want.
    91:58
    I think I'll take the ball home. I think I'll stick a cleaning rag in there, it's a lot easier, because you can then use it to clean things. Right. And rather dubiously, there's a thing called pinball paws, which is another magnetic clamp type thing, but it clamps onto a metal side rail and basically holds the flipper button in for you while you answer the phone or grab another beer or whatever it is you want to do with your hands other than hold the flipper button in.
    92:26
    So you're just saying it's not a long-term solution, that it's only just temporary things. It's called pinball ports.
    92:34
    I seem to remember that on certain games, if you hold the flipper buttons in for too long, you can blow up the driver transistor. so maybe not a good idea to do that I wouldn't do it on Marsa gameplay Marsa play games no they probably haven't got the metal you definitely need to make sure that if you apply those that the end of stroke switch on your game is functioning correctly yes and all the driver transistors there's a lot of current going through there anyway there's various other things just like a replacement playfield prop you know that bar which you can sometimes keep your playfield in a sort of semi-up 45 degree angle thing well now it's an adjustable one that allows you to put it in various different angles and a very strange inflatable bag type device which can go under the pinball and you can inflate it and lift the back of the playfield up so you can attach the legs, which seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. But I suppose if you're not strong enough to actually lift up a machine and you have an inflatable, you want to put an inflatable bag under it to do that, you can buy a pinball boost that does that.
    93:56
    And finally... $249. Yes, that's right. I suppose it's easier to call someone and say, hey, can you help me set up my pinball machine? I'll give you $249 if you do. Yes.
    94:09
    I guess it's reusable, but it's not something that's going to cap on in a big way, I don't think. Seems like a bit of a risk, because obviously a pinball machine is quite heavy. We're talking about something inflatable.
    94:27
    What if you use this thing to lift up the back of your pinball machine, and it can't carry the weight and it explodes while the game is halfway up and then it crashes to the floor. Well, part of the system is also a sort of bracket, which I don't know whether it screws onto the bottom of the playfield or the bottom of the cabinet or clamps on somehow, but it allows you to basically rock the machine forward on a sort of circular frame, so that it's, by default, it's sitting a certain height off the ground on this frame, and the bag goes in between the frame to lift it further. It's a lot of hardware and a lot of fat, I think, just to lift a game up, just to put some legs on. Right. I'm getting a sort of deep-root fight here.
    95:23
    Well, to be fair, I haven't taken anybody's money yet, so... Oh, yeah, absolutely. But I do sense a lot of... Are you suggesting you're going to say the word pin pod at any moment?
    95:36
    No, no, I'm not. But I'm going to say a lot of innovation in areas where innovation is not necessarily needed.
    95:44
    Yes, that's right. Well, I suppose with the holiday season coming up, it might be a good range of products that you can buy for your pinball collection. Oh, well, who are we to decide what you need and what you don't need? If you think you need this, then for all I care, buy it, and I hope Andrew sells a ton of them. Yeah, well, do a review and let us know how they work. Yeah, we're very curious. And that wasn't even everything, because they also have this upright and spin.
    96:24
    Yeah, I was going to ignore that, but that's a... I don't want to call it a playfield rotisserie, because it's not. It does rotate the playfield, but if you can imagine if you had a... like a toast rack or something that you would put toast in, then put that on a spinning base and you can slot a playfield into it and you can basically turn the playfield round if you're working on it and attaching parts or cleaning it or clear coating or whatever you can attach you can basically clamp it either horizontally no vertically in either the long ways or the high direction, and work on it that way. It seems not a lot of, nothing much. It's got big clamps as well, which basically means if there's anything on the playfield in those areas, you can't use it there. I was going to say, I've looked at the pictures and it looks like you can only use it for bare playfields. Pretty much, yeah. Once you start populating it, you wouldn't be able to hold it in there anymore, so I don't know. Again, it's a solution looking for a problem.
    97:40
    And it's a $400 solution. So is it a $400 problem? If it is, then go and have a look at it anyway. One thing I think probably should mention about this, because it might be something that somebody could alert Andrew to, is that on his website it's there. No, don't mention that yet. I still need to browse it. Oh, right. I won't mention the fact that all the media assets are readily accessible if you know how to get them so you can look at all the pictures that either are or aren't yet on the website thank you for not mentioning that I wouldn't do that, no, but only a few people know how to do that anyway we're not going to do a masterclass on how to access all those interesting pictures before you scrape them all off the website right, ok, thank you Okay, good luck. For doing it, yes. So, then in other news, what I found very interesting, and I've already received a preview of it, is an upcoming book that will be published in February of next year. It's by John Chet. Yep. It's called Pinball, a Graphic History of the Silver Ball. And it's a comic book-like, I would say, book, over 200 pages, telling stories about certain, well, fun anecdotes in the history of pinball, how the tilt mechanism was invented, how it works, which types there were. the history of pinball. Obviously Roger Sharp is in there with how he saved pinball in America in 1976. I was very surprised, first of all, to see the quality of the drawings. It looks very, very good. Did you have a chance to take a look at it as well? I had a brief chance. I'm actually going to be doing an article on it, but unfortunately arrived with me just as I was about to head over to America, so I put that on the back burner for the moment, considering it's not coming out until February next year. But I will be doing an article about it nearer the time. Yes, so will I.
    100:11
    And it's... I thought it was very, very interesting. If you're familiar with the Coin of Carnival that Ryan Claytor and Nicholas Baldrige have done, well this is something similar but more basically more pages and all comic every page is illustrated so to speak so yeah I'm looking forward to seeing that being published in February and I hope it does well from what I get it's being published with a big publisher so it might be available in the regular Barnes and Noble shops and that kind of stuff yeah I think so could have a big audience John on that I was going to you took the word right out of my mouth thank you someone should write a song about that right ok we still have a headline to cover Yes, come on then, you've been teasing us with this story about a different type of pinball. Yes, well it definitely is. I already mentioned it in the Pinball Magazine newsletter last month, because the video that I'm talking about came under my eyes after we recorded our podcast, before I sent out the newsletter. it was posted on the Facebook page of RB Flip France which is a French hosted page and the video is that we're talking videos and pictures that we're talking about were actually submitted by the brother Christophe of the guy who runs this page on Facebook So they don't know anything about it other than that there were a bunch of games, pinball games, new pinball games. This is a trade show, was it? Yes, at a trade show in Guangzhou, if I say that correctly, hopefully. And this basically showed a pinball game, or a row of, I think, four or six pinball games. Six, I think. Yes. Yeah, things which could easily be put on a truck or something like that and be used for travelling carnivals or fairgrounds and that kind of stuff. In fact, look at the picture now. There's six and there's another row of six behind them. So there's actually a dozen machines. Right. So it's all the same machines. It's a very basic layout with basically two flippers at the centre bottom, a ball being launched in between them, a small LCD display in the middle, a row of stand-up targets at the top, non-mechanical I would say, which means that there is some sort of magnetic detection that the ball is in the neighborhood of the switch, and then it's being detected.
    103:39
    There's a pop bumper in the center, blocking the direct shot to the two targets at the center with the highest points that are being awarded. So imagine this row of targets. The two at the far left and the far right are scoring, let's say, one point, and the ones in the center are scoring ten points. and the game awards tickets but also prizes which are actually stored in the back box and once you score enough points basically the prize that you win is being dropped from the back box onto the playfield well it's a place of glass yes on the playfield glass which I thought was actually very clever because I've never seen that, and it's a very economic way to use the space in the back box and still have something to display. And the back box front is clear, so you can see all the prizes up there, you can see the mechanisms working as it's dispensing you a game, so you can see it sort of about to drop a prize onto the playfield glass, and then it comes down a chute and lands there. So, and obviously, depending on the price that you can win, you need more points, but the thing is, the boxes that were dispensed are similar to the size of a box that a new phone is being offered in, if you buy a new iPhone or something. So I'm not saying that should be the price, but that could be, you know. So boxes of that size can easily be dispensed.
    105:36
    And I wouldn't mind playing for a new phone. Yes. Especially since I need one. Apparently you do, yeah.
    105:45
    So. It is an interesting game because it doesn't, although it's got two flippers at the bottom and it's got all this like slingshots at the side, that they're actually targets.
    105:58
    There were no outlanes, so you can't actually drain the ball other than between the flippers, I think. Right. It seems to be the only way, and this is another means. But, yes, as you said, it's redemption as well, so you can get tickets, and I guess at some point, once you've got enough tickets, you can exchange that for a prize. And the number of points at the top, I was actually thinking that those stand-up targets might be the sort of piezo targets that the Gottlieb used to use. They weren't entirely reliable, but they just have a little crystal which generates a little voltage whenever they're hit, which doesn't require anything else other than that, because they just amplify that signal up and then you get the switch hits. Because these targets on this game have got LED displays, seven-segment LED displays right in front of each target, which would make it quite difficult to fit any kind of sensor right in front of it as well, because the LED displays show the number of points you get hitting the target, and I guess that changes during the game as well. Oh, well, I don't know how they did it, but they did it. Yeah, and it was also quite interesting, though it seems to be a sort of hybrid between, I'm guessing, Chinese and English. some parts of the text on the game is in English and some part of it is in Chinese so it says, what does it say, prize out where the prize comes out and also it says mini pinball at the top the game is called mini pinball and it says tickets and there is some Chinese writing on it as well but it's mostly English which is an interesting I don't know whether that's common for arcade games in China whether they typically would do that but it was a good suggestion it might be aimed at the global audience rather than just for China Right so well apparently I did ask Mike from Homepin what he thought about them and he said well all of the artwork on there is basically are characters taken from Western products that are slapped on there for no reason or whatsoever, but that would make it difficult for them to export them outside Asia, because apparently copyright law in China is non-existent, but outside China it is.
    108:34
    Okay, well, it's just artwork, before I could change it, if it was deemed to be a market. But yeah, interesting and good spot on that. The reason I find this interesting is as you and I know China is not a pinball market the people are not familiar with what a pinball is how it how you should play it and if you want to educate the people on pinball I think this is the way to start hmm and if they once they understand this then you can slowly take them a step further. I mean it's like if you want to learn how to drive a car, you're not taking lessons in a Formula One car are you? Mm-hmm. And so you have to start with something a little bit smaller I would say, which is exactly what this is and the fact that it's combining pinball and redemption I think is also very interesting. Yeah, maybe redemption and all prizes is what Pinball in China, if it was to take over the big wave, would need in order to attract players. Right, so, and of course the big attraction is that, not having played the game, but from judging the videos, you get the idea that this is a skill game where if you are skillful enough you walk away with a prize. Well that's usually something that I would be interested in, especially if it's pinball related, because I think I'd be under the impression that I'd be walking away with a prize in no time. Well because it could be timed, I don't know. I haven't watched a video yet, Obviously they're going to make it so that it's not giving away too many prizes. Yeah, well, in case Bowen Kerens comes by and starts playing it, yeah. He's got time on his hands now, so he'll probably do it. Right, so, but I thought it was worthy of a headline, because if this is a way to launch pinball into China, to China, then it could open up a huge market for Pimble. And if you'd like to see any of this for yourself, then if you're on Facebook, go to RB Flip France, and on the page there, probably have to scroll down a few stories or a few posts until you get to this, because it was from the beginning of the month, on the 3rd of November. But you'll, and they're quite active on that site, so you'll be able to see some pictures and some videos of the gameplay. yes so take a look for yourself and see what you think of it and let us know if you feel like sharing right well have we exhausted everything now have we covered everything yeah I think so well yeah you went to the US you came back you had fun I certainly did I think I've covered most of the things I do you played people yeah you played every game that I have played yet in the past two years thank you rub it in yes but there's a lot of travelling involved and a lot of Covid precautions to be taken all over the place that impacts on travelling and makes it not quite so much fun as it used to be but the important thing is shows are back and there seems to be a huge appetite for people to go out to pinball shows and play games, play all the new games that they haven't been able to play and the atmosphere there was just, all the places I went to was all the huge sigh of relief from staying at last, we can finally come out and play pinball and meet people.
    112:28
    And it's, I would say, it's back to normal because it's clearly not that. And, of course, it can, as we're seeing now, things can change very rapidly. But there's that little narrow window where I was able to sneak into the US, go to three pinball events, come back without it being too much of a pain. And hopefully we'll be able to head back in March next year for the Texas Pinball Festival and something else possibly. And then, I don't know, maybe in the summer.
    112:59
    It's very hard to plan too far ahead at the moment, isn't it, with the way things are developing. Well, I don't know how things are developing in the US, but here in Europe it's really getting worse and worse and worse. Yeah, we don't get too much into the different variants and all that. But, yeah. Enjoy the shows while they are still there. That's right. Support Pinball. Go out to play on location wherever you can while you still can. and basically enjoy pinball in all its forms. And we will be back at the start of 2022. God, that seems like such a long time, but it's, what, 30 days away, or 31 days away. And I guess we'll be looking back at all the events that happened in December, however many there are, and we hope you have a fantastic time over the festive season. and get to play some good pinball as well. Right. So, and, well, we probably don't, well, you won't hear us before the beginning of the new year, so allow me to already wish you a Merry Christmas. Indeed.
    114:09
    And a happy ending. This year. And hopefully a very happy start to 2022. Yes. So until we're back next year, then we will say goodbye for now and enjoy some pinball. Thanks. Bye-bye.