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Creatures, Monsters and Zen: Oh My!

BlahCade Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·55m 22s·held·Nov 7, 2019
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

BlahCade hosts discuss machine restoration, Zen mobile app monetization frustrations, and Creature/Monster Bash updates.

Summary

Chris Friebus and Jared Morgan discuss Chris's voice recovery from work overload, Jared's pinball machine restoration progress (playfield mylar removal and sanding techniques), and extensive analysis of Zen Pinball's mobile app monetization model, limited-time events, and recent gameplay updates to Creature and Monster Bash. They address community frustration about the mobile app's two-star purchase option and clarify Zen's earning mechanism for table parts.

Key Claims

  • Jared has removed multiple layers of mylar from a pinball playfield using isopropyl alcohol and 1000-grit sandpaper technique

    high confidence · Jared describing playfield restoration work on unnamed machine (likely Data East based on context)

  • Zen Pinball's Volume 4 tables (Creature and Monster Bash) unlock to two stars for $9.99, not full unlock like earlier volumes

    high confidence · Chris and Jared discussing Zen's pricing model and community complaints

  • Limited-time event for Monster Bash parts has ended, Creature event will likely follow with exclusive parts earning opportunity

    high confidence · Chris explaining Zen's pattern from previous release cycles

  • Two-star unlock now includes offline play capability (previously four-star feature)

    high confidence · Chris clarifying what changed between Volume 3 and Volume 4 releases

  • Pro-physics and enhanced visuals are three-star and four-star features respectively, with one-time purchase unlocking across all tables owned and future purchases

    high confidence · Chris explaining upgrade options for mobile app

  • Theater of Magic inserts at top and Medieval Madness dragon ramp have been fixed/improved on mobile

    high confidence · Jared noting visual and gameplay corrections in recent update

  • Creature jackpot system in Zen appears to reset per game, not carry over between games like original ROM

    medium confidence · Jared and Chris discussing ROM state behavior; chat member AJ clarifying Zen's reset pattern

  • Jared struggled to hit super jackpot on Creature in Zen (standard and classic physics)

    high confidence · Jared's direct experience playing Zen version of Creature

Notable Quotes

  • “the old adhesive slash shellac or whatever they put on the playfield, when you hit it with isopropyl alcohol, it goes a little bit sticky as well. So if you put like a 1,000 grit sandpaper over the top... you basically just sand over the top of the playfield and it looks for the high spots, the sticky spots”

    Jared Morgan @ ~7:30 — Describes restoration technique for safely removing multiple mylar layers without damaging playfield artwork

  • “The big throbbing button for Buy Now with the price on it... you don't see the thing that has less visual weight but arguably more importance which is two stars”

    Chris Friebus @ ~29:15 — Critical observation about Zen's UI/UX misleading players about purchase scope

  • “It is a different type of platform. Because it is meant to be a mobile game... games mean in-app purchases and freemium model it's just how it is”

    Chris Friebus @ ~32:20 — Core explanation for why mobile app monetization differs from Steam/console versions

  • “I would sit there and build up that jackpot before even starting multiball. I'd purposely crank up the jackpot... 70 to 80 million... then you hit the jackpot, and so it would be worth about $250 million”

    Chris Friebus @ ~54:45 — Describes original Creature TPA strategy that doesn't work in Zen due to per-game reset

  • “I have yet to even hit super jackpot on creature with Zen's build. Haven't hit it, haven't even come close to hitting it yet... both [standard and classic physics]. Can't do it.”

    Jared Morgan @ ~56:30 — Direct evidence of Creature difficulty balance in Zen version

  • “It's the difference between listening to music that you own and listening to the radio. Sometimes it's just fun to listen to the radio and see what magically pops up”

    Jared Morgan @ ~44:00 — Philosophical framing for how to enjoy mobile app's daily challenges

  • “I get it if your only way to play these is mobile and so it's frustrating that you want to be able to try these new tables”

Entities

Chris FriebuspersonJared MorganpersonBlahCade Pinball PodcastorganizationZen PinballcompanyCreaturegameMonster BashgameStar RacegameTheatre of Magicgame

Signals

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Jared developed safe technique for removing multiple mylar layers from playfield using isopropyl alcohol and 1000-grit sandpaper to identify and remove high-spot adhesive without damaging varnish/artwork

    high · Detailed explanation of methodology, mention of previous application on Star Race, acknowledgment of risk (accidentally digging into playfield bark)

  • ?

    product_concern: Zen Pinball's purchase button design heavily emphasizes 'Buy Now' price rather than key limitation (two-star unlock), potentially misleading customers about what they're purchasing

    high · Chris's analysis of visual weight distribution in banner; emphasis on how 'two stars' is less visually prominent than price button

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community anger about mobile app pricing has resumed; players claiming nothing changed but expressing outrage; hosts attributing frustration to expectation mismatch between mobile/Steam/console platforms

    high · Chris citing recent comments about 'dumpster fire' and 'I hate you'; noting this mirrors Volume 4 release pattern; reference to five-month gap since last discussion

  • ?

    code_update: Zen updated Theater of Magic (hexagon insert rendering), Medieval Madness (dragon ramp difficulty), Roadshow (left ramp runner shot), and enhanced ball shininess on Creature/Monster Bash mobile versions

    high · Jared's direct observation of changes; specific technical details (hexagon inserts, ramp shooting, ball reflection); confirmation of Android precedent for some fixes

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Creature in Zen is significantly harder to achieve super jackpot than original TPA version; progressive jackpot stacking strategy from TPA doesn't work due to per-game reset

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.166

0:00
blockade pinball podcast this is the blockade pinball podcast i'm your host chris freebus aka shut your trap joining me as always halfway across the world jared morgan hello folks howdy howdy howdy oh what a bonus how you doing so uh your Australianism is about a bunch into the first half of the show so there you go no more of that some jackaroo no um so uh I don't know what that is you don't know what jackaroo isn't that what the the crazy Australian uh slang talkers they speak jackaroo isn't that what it is no am I off my rocker apparently I'm off I think it's Stone the Flaming Crows. I think Chris has had a conniption.
0:58
So, as you know, folks, last week I was not able to do a podcast because I completely lost my voice after a shift telling people to smile that lasted eight hours in the hot blazing sun with wind. So it just kind of killed my throat. And I'm still recovering, but good enough that we can actually go ahead and do this podcast. So there you go. it's gravelly and raspy and that late night sort of flavor. Right, isn't that what makes for a good radio voice? No. Apparently so.
1:31
And it was like, I'll be listening to songs on the radio in the car and trying to sing along and it's just like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
1:42
Sounding like one of those raspy voice singers. I forget which ones they are. It's off my head. yeah yeah the the kind of singers that don't usually listen to um exactly exactly so i've been a uh i've been a busy little boy here um i'm on my eighth day in a row of working and i still got two more to go before i finally get a day off two more wow two more and um i did so this is a combination of working at Disney and then working on film sets and the three times I went in on film sets this past week every single one of them was 14 to 15 hour days so 45 hours over worked over the course of three days that's a lot that is non-trivial that's a lot yeah so I've been like basically coming home, going to sleep, waking up, going to work if I try and watch TV, then I fall asleep watching TV. You know, the good stuff. Probably not surprising, really.

Chris Friebus @ ~46:30 — Acknowledges different user segments have conflicting expectations for mobile app

  • “they should have made the tables four star visuals [during limited-time events]... let's play the pro physics let's see the visual enhancements so that the people can actually see what the big deal is”

    Jared Morgan @ ~48:15 — Suggestion for improving mobile app limited-time event strategy as marketing tool

    • Medieval Madness
    game
    Red & Ted's Road Showgame
    Safe Crackergame
    Eight Ball Deluxegame
    White Watergame
    Netherworldvenue
    AJperson
    Pinballwiz45bperson
    Melperson

    high · Jared's inability to hit super jackpot on both standard/classic physics despite multiple attempts; Chris's description of TPA stacking strategy yielding $1B+ vs. current struggle to reach multiball

  • ?

    product_strategy: Zen runs exclusive limited-time events for new tables to drive parts completion, then incorporates remaining table parts into regular daily challenge rotation after event ends

    high · Chris explaining pattern observed in Volume 3 and Volume 4 releases; Monster Bash event ended, Creature event expected to follow; parts later appeared in daily rotation after prior event

  • $

    market_signal: Mobile app operates under freemium in-app purchase model fundamentally different from Steam/console versions; community struggles to accept this paradigm shift

    high · Chris's repeated assertion that mobile != Steam; explanation of why mobile must use IAP model; hosts' frustration that community hasn't internalized this distinction after months

  • ?

    product_concern: Zen's ROM state resets progressive jackpots (Creature, Safe Cracker, Whitewater) every game, preventing natural gameplay progression mechanics seen in real machines where jackpots build over multiple games

    high · Jared's observation about Creature; AJ's clarification about Whitewater; discussion of Safe Cracker Vault Letters requiring hours of play to accumulate; contrast with real machine behavior

  • ?

    content_signal: Chris missed switching video input to show Jared on camera due to fatigue from heavy work schedule (10+ consecutive work days); self-aware about technical failure

    high · Chris acknowledging he forgot to push button to bring Jared on camera; joke about 'disembodied voice'; meta-commentary about viewer experience

  • ?

    design_innovation: Zen's enhanced visuals for Creature/Monster Bash (spinning coins above lanes, bright in-lane lights) are thematically integrated rather than distracting; players praising implementation quality

    high · Jared praising visual enhancements as 'bang up job', noting they 'fit the table theme very well' and 'integrate very well with the toys'; mention of coin indicator helping lane visibility

  • ?

    operational_signal: Tournament-mode pinball machines at competitive venues (Netherworld) typically reset jackpots, disable extra balls, and prevent carryover scoring to standardize competition

    high · Chris and Jared discussing Netherworld's tweaking practices; confirmation that tournament mode differs significantly from casual play settings

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Chris working unsustainable schedule combining Disney shifts and 14-15 hour film set days (45 hours over 3 days); on 8+ consecutive work days

    high · Chris describing voice loss from 8-hour shift; details of combining Disney + film work; specific hour counts for film days; note that 2+ more days remain before time off

    • 2:50
    Well, that sounds like a busy time. It's been pretty busy for me, too. I've managed to get through a month of my new job, which is pretty good.
    3:01
    And it's going really well. And I've already started writing docs and publishing docs, which is pretty good. It took a fair while to do that in the other jobs, so it's good to get a few runs on the board, if you will.
    3:19
    And I've been hacking away a bit on the pinball, but we can probably go into that later if you want to sidebar that.
    3:25
    Sidebar! Yeah, I just realized I wasn't doing my... This is how tired I am. I realized that I wasn't doing my duty of actually pushing the button to make you come up on camera. Yeah. essentially your fidget spinner that you now use as the little switcher yes yeah I'm like boy this video is really boring it's just a disembodied voice basically it's just me staring at the screen you know but I've got a picture of you up on my screen so I didn't understand what the problem was yeah exactly yeah well I don't know is it a problem? that's a big question would the viewers rather just have no image at all that's right um so you did you've done well you know what tell you what why don't we dive because we know we're going to talk about that's going to take the majority of the show uh but let's talk about your uh your machine and what you've been doing so yeah i got to the point where i sort of called it done on the cabinet work any other sort of tomato touch-ups with paint and stuff i can do afterwards i was just a bit over doing cabinet work so i thought oh it's time to get into fun bit which is like playfield stuff so uh i decided to uh start picking away at some of the the layers and i say layers plural because there's more than one of uh the the mylar that's been put down on this playfield over the years well you know when one layer of mylar starts to go bad you just slap another layer of mylar on top of it and all as well yeah you do and you don't bother cleaning the layer underneath before you actually slap it. Ah, the dirt adds character. Yeah, that's right. Exactly right. And also, it adds adherence for the layer of contact you're putting on the top as well. It's perfect, yeah. So anyhow, I depopulated the playfield on the top and got to the point where I kept the sod rails on, you know, the actual bits of wood that you see on the playfield that essentially keep the playfield from warping. I kept those on for the time being. I took those off in Star Race a while back and I will get there eventually but I just keep them on for the time being while I'm doing this sanding work just to sort of stop the thing from warping so I started chipping away at this thing and there was a good, there was definitely two layers down here, the original factory Mylar which behaves very differently when you actually try and remove it to the terrible book contact that they put on the top over in Africa Was the Africa stuff just like shelf paper? it's it's like um it's just book covering like generic book covering it's not mylar at all it's not proper hard top mylar it's just this like stuff you put on your books right um and because of that reason um it's it's very sticky and it's also very um very fragile so it's quite brittle when you remove it um so i got down to to basically the playfield surface after a lot of a lot of disgusting glue all over my fingers and i worked out a little bit of a trick when i was doing it on star race um i was having trouble working out um but when you dissolve the glue with isopropyl alcohol which is my technique um what you find is it gets to the point where it's hard to work out whether you're taking off glue or whether you're taking off the old varnish that's on the playfield. Because once you start taking off the varnish, you're getting down to the ink layer. Oh, right. That's where you can take bark off the playfield pretty quickly. So I worked out a bit of a, just by accident, I thought, is there another way to get the sticky stuff off? And I thought, well, maybe if I just give the playfield a sand, I can actually see what's smooth and what isn't. And it turned out to be a pretty good strategy because the old adhesive slash shellac or whatever they put on the playfield, when you hit it with isopropyl alcohol, it goes a little bit sticky as well. So if you put like a 1,000 grit sandpaper over the top, which you're not going to remove very much with 1000 grit. You basically just sand over the top of the playfield and it looks for the high spots, the sticky spots, and then you can go and just focus on those areas only, just getting rid of, getting them down to glue and then give them a little buff up again, then work out where the high spots are and keep them going. And it's a really safe way of actually getting off all that crud off the playfield. I've had, except when you dig into the playfield with your scalpel and it takes a little bit of bark off, which I've done a couple of times. Oops. It's all part of the experience. It's fine. It's really the only way I've been able to get this stuff off reliably, off these playfields, because all the other techniques, like use flour and ice-proper alcohol, doesn't work.
    8:22
    And I think if I'm going to clear coat these with a brand-new clear coat system anyhow, it probably is a good idea for me to get the horrible old varnish off anyhow, anyhow at least have a relatively flat sort of play field to work with first or at least a play field without any sort of imperfections or weird stuff on it so it's kind of what i've been doing over the last two or three days and it's nearly done i think um so i've made some progress and that's all you need to do when you're doing these jobs you just need to chip away and make some progress on it each day or each week and you actually i should take that advice sometime yeah great in your infinite spare time that you now no longer have yeah well see that's just it see now that I don't have spare time I'll value the spare time and maybe actually go you know what I should do with it no I'm not going to do that no instead I'm going to be like what movies haven't I watched yeah exactly right or what bed haven't I slept in yeah right something of that nature um yeah it's kind of funny the uh you know i go from having had all the time in the world to mess around with uh pinball and especially with the digital stuff um to all of a sudden like i literally forgot like i played creature and zen on steam but i forgot about the app and i didn't even look at it until yesterday and i went oh crap they got those the limited timed event and it's ending in two days i'm gonna miss out on earning table parts for uh in this case it was monster bash um yeah but like that of course though is that like you get one shot a day and if you want to unlock it again it's like eight tokens no you don't get one shot a day you got uh it was every six hours. Six or eight hours that it regenerated. Probably eight hours. And it took six coins to start it up again. Yeah, to reset it if you don't want to wait. Right, which is not a good bargain, folks. No, don't spend those six tokens. That's a poor deal. Very poor deal. Yeah, I did actually spend six tokens because I have 600. but I spent them just to see because I think I was going to I wanted to make sure that I got at least level one unlocked and I wanted to guarantee that I was going to get the parts for it so I went ahead and did that just so I could come in under the wire and get my parts going yeah yeah I think I'm still a few parts short on mine, but I don't really play the mobile app religiously. Let's actually talk about the mobile app, shall we? Let's do that. We've had some interesting comments recently. Once again, it seems like people don't listen to us.
    11:30
    Or they've forgotten all the things that happened. Now, I know. It's been five months. I understand. It's a fair bit of water under the bridge since then, so it's understandable. Yes. I get that. But basically what it is is all the comments about how much the mobile app is a dumpster fire. Yes, I was reading that again.
    11:53
    People forgot that nothing changed, literally nothing changed between the last release and this release. But apparently in everybody's minds that are, you know, just bugging them.
    12:06
    No, I can't believe this is now your. I hate you, you're a wap, and it's just like non-stop complaining of that nature. Yeah, there's a fair bit of that going on. So let's be clear here, folks.
    12:19
    The last time we had, so Volume 4, Zen offered you to be able to purchase the tables and unlock them at two stars. It was not a full unlock. The full unlock only happened for Volume 1, which was Volume 1 and 2, and Volume 3. and volume 3 it was like a super special one time offer four star deal it was like well and I think with volume 3 there was a lot of people that were like hey I think you made a mistake you were supposed to because I think it first unlocked only two stars and people were like hey I think you made a mistake you were supposed to unlock it all the way and I think Zen wound up doing just that for those people for volume 3 but then when volume 4 came around it was no it's for two stars And it clearly shows – now, I shouldn't say clearly.
    13:11
    There is a bit of chicanery going on. Let's talk about visual weight. Let's talk about visual weight, shall we, in that banner? Because I made this comment, I think it was somewhere, but the problem with that banner is the thing that has the most visual weight is the Buy Now button. Correct. The big throbbing button for Buy Now with the price on it. So you see buy two tables for $9.99. Yep. It's $15.99 here in Australia. but you go oh okay I want to buy the tables cool click that buy it yeah awesome good but you don't see the thing that has less visual weight but arguably more importance which is two stars clearly visible and yes tile Yes clearly visible Yes So if you cool your jets and you actually just take a little bit of time to understand what you're buying before you buy, then you will understand what you're buying. How about that? Right? Now, here's the other thing. What has changed is what those two stars get you. because those two stars get you the ability to play the table as much as you want. It also allows you to play it offline, which didn't used to be. That used to be a four-star thing. That's right, yeah.
    14:32
    So what it does not get you, it does not get you the enhanced visuals. It does not get you pro-difficulty. It does not get you pro-physics. that's all level three well level three and level four but this is where we've said and again i know we covered this ground before go ahead if this is your concern go ahead and buy the coins to be able to unlock visual enhancements and unlock pro div uh well actually pro physics is the important one and it will unlock across every table you own from now and into the future. Yeah. It's a one-time purchase.
    15:17
    And it's not for the tables released now. It is from now back in time and forward in time. Right. So that will get you there. That will get you there for the $9.99 price.
    15:33
    That's not bad. No. That's important to you. But I think it's people still can't wrap their heads around mobile application. They just want it to be exactly like Steam. It's like, by this point, haven't we gone over this ground enough to know that the mobile app is not going to be treated like Steam or like consoles? Or Nintendo or any of the consoles that you have. Like, it is a different type of platform. Because it is meant to be a mobile game. Yes. you know games mean in-app purchases and freemium model it's just how it is right and the thing is and i think this is probably the problem people who are long-time pinball arcade supporters they're still stuck in the mindset is i pay a dlc i get the full game that's how it works right it's a different company it's a different paradigm deal with it now here's the other thing and this is kind of i don't know i i read it from some of the people that i'm reading it from and i'm just like i know you're smarter than this because i just know you are um we've had conversations but okay so like right now well it just ended but zen was running the limited time event which was playing monster bash and earning monster bash parts yes that has exclusively exclusively. That has now gone away.
    17:01
    And I imagine if I had been on top of it and had been doing it since Tuesday, I would have been able to unlock the two stars. I think, because it only takes 15 stars to do that. As it is, I was only able to click... 15 parts. Or 15 parts. It's five to unlock to one, isn't it? One, yeah. And then 10 to unlock to two, yeah. No, it's 15 to unlock to two. oh so it's a total of 20 20 parts altogether 20 parts altogether yes yeah right okay yeah that's probably achievable if you're dedicated enough to it yeah which i was last the last release i was dedicated enough and i was able to do it so that time to vent is gone right so now if you play the regular daily challenges you're still not earning parts for monster bash or creature There's a reason for that.
    17:53
    And that is, Zen has not populated it into the regular daily challenge cycle. You might be asking yourself, why is that? Well, why is that? Probably because there's going to be a limited timed event for Creature. Probably. And it'll probably be to earn parts exclusively for Creature. And you might be like, well, I don't like that. That's BS. Yes. No, the point is they're setting you up so that you have the parts to get to two stars so that you can play these tables whenever you damn well feel like it.
    18:28
    So there's methodology. This, again, this happened the last time. The last time, I think you were able to earn parts for all three tables. No, excuse me, you were able to earn parts for two of the three tables. And people have the same question. Well, okay, I've got two of the tables up to two stars. how am I going to get the third one if you're never giving me parts? It took about a week after the timed event went away, and then all of a sudden they started popping up part of the rotation in the daily challenges, at which point a player like me, who already has all the tables unlocked and doesn't see table parts come up as one of my rewards, instead I just get tickets, all of a sudden, bing, table parts are popping up again. Right, okay. And, again, for a player like me, running the rest of the table parts was easy because it was just like all I had to do was play the basic and advanced challenge, and I would just reset those after I played them. But I was getting probably, I could easily get 20, 25 parts in a day by just recycling like three times, I think. Which is pretty good. Yeah, so it doesn't, it won't take that long. But just, this is where it drives me batty. This happened last time. Remember it. But you were probably so angry last time you didn't pay attention. I'm paying attention because I'm not angry.
    19:58
    So just give it a time. You're going to be able to collect the parts. Zen's not going to make it so that you can't collect parts. The only thing that Zen didn't do this time, and I kind of appreciate it also, is that last time you could either pay your $9.99 or you could have paid 250 stars.
    20:16
    Yeah. Is that what we're earning? Coins. Smurf berries. You could pay 250 Smurf berries and unlock everything to two stars that way. They didn't offer that this time. That's not there. No.
    20:30
    But clearly there's going to be a point where you're going to be able to earn parts for creature. I mean, that just would be absurd if you didn't. just keep playing and kind of enjoy the app and play the pinball oh isn't that why you're here yeah play play the pinball that's on offer and freely available or switch over to arcade mode and just play the games non-stop and it's funny too because it's like i i get it if if your only way to play these is mobile and so it's frustrating that you want to be able to try these new tables for me being able to play anytime I want on Steam and then I get the mobile and I have the exact opposite reaction I'm just like oh cool I'll just play Monster Bash for a while and Creature will come in good time but again it's probably because I can pop in Creature whenever I want that might just be my thing have you had a chance to mess around with him anymore Jared?
    21:32
    yeah I have been, well, I've decided to, I've been playing a bit on mobile just to sort of keep my hand in so we can actually talk about it this week.
    21:41
    And yeah, it's been okay. It's operating like it always is on mobile. I found that the balls are slightly shinier in these couple new tables on mobile for me. They have more reflection. Yeah, they have more reflection in them. Well, they actually went and did some corrections because, and I think this was already done on android but it hadn't been done on ios uh theater of magic specifically the uh inserts up at the top that were just hexagons of yellow have now fully been rendered as they should be so oh that's good yeah yeah i know they went and did some uh some tweaking oh and uh medieval madness shooting the dragon ramp way easier and in roadshow you can now do a running shot and hit the left, what is that, bridge out ramp at the back of the table? The left ramp, yeah. Yeah. That was always a problem, eh? Yeah, the only way you were able to actually shoot it was if you caught the ball and shot it, but you couldn't do it on a runner, and now you can do it on a runner. I tested that out the other night.
    22:52
    Yeah. I haven't actually played the other tables. I've just been focusing on the ones that come up in the daily challenges, because it kind of makes sense to do that if you're still hunting parts. And also, I basically just get guided by the tables that are coming through on the challenges because I've got Steam.
    23:11
    And if I want to play pinball properly, I go and play it on the PC. You know what I equate it to? It's the difference between listening to music that you own and listening to the radio. Sometimes it's just fun to listen to the radio and see what magically pops up because you wouldn't have necessarily picked that as your next song or didn't know you were in the mood for it.
    23:39
    That's how I treat the mobile app with the daily challenges where it's just like, oh, okay, yeah, sure, I'll play that. I wasn't planning on it, but why not? I can spend five minutes.
    23:50
    And that's literally your investment in time. It's five minutes. If you don't like it, it's going to be over in five minutes or less, particularly if it's a one-ball challenge.
    24:01
    One-ball on Safecracker. Oh, yeah, fun times. I've had a couple of the one-ball challenges on Creature haven't been so fun, I'll tell you that much.
    24:14
    But, yeah, look, I've played on both. I think it was fun going back onto Steam again and seeing what they've done for Creature. I've noticed that they've got the little spinning coins above the lanes, So when you're actually in that area and your ball is passing through the lanes, you'll see the coins pop up and stay there for around three or four seconds.
    24:37
    And that's normally enough time because normally the ball will travel up and down through those lanes a fair bit in the pops because they're quite wide. So the ball will have a chance of going back up and down through them. Yeah, those coins are helpful in trying to identify what lane, because you can only see two of the lanes. You can't see all four lanes. No, that's right. They're slightly obscured. Yeah. So the coins definitely help that. Also, if you notice on Monster Bash, same thing with the in-lanes. If you're playing in non-visual enhancement, the insert lights are very difficult to see. If you play in insert or play in enhanced mode, there's like a red ultra-bright light that fills up the entire lane. So it's really easy to determine which lane you need to let the ball, you know, move it over so the ball can go through in light. So that was one of those things I actually requested in beta, that they do something to visually enhance that, and there it is. They shortened, they have, yeah, absolutely. It's definitely much better.
    25:45
    It kind of makes me definitely play more with enhanced visuals on these two tables particularly, because, again, they did such a bang up job on those enhancements that they're not out of the blue they're not distracting, they fit the table theme very well, integrate very well with the toys it's not cluttering the playfield except for when you're in multi-ball and having the gil walk around do you know I think they had missed an opportunity on mobile though like with these timed events that they had going on, they should have made the tables four star visuals oh i i agree i and then i've said this to them before too where it's like hey for the limited time to events that's where you should be giving yeah let's play the pro physics let's see the visual enhancements do whatever you need to do so that the people can actually see what the what the big deal is about or even just make it so you can see the like less about the pro physical though it's it's good to actually be able to try those out if you haven't had a chance on mobile but at least the visuals on these. Like, have the toggle switch. Just give you a taste of what you can expect, you know?
    26:55
    It just seems obvious to me. I don't know why they don't do it. Like, it's a suggestive sell for upgrading. Yeah, I don't know why they don't do it either. It's what mobile's all about, after all. So they're missing an opportunity there. Yeah, especially since there's a lot of people that, again, they don't know what they're grinding for. Mm. you know, you can read about it, but it's like, is it worth it? I don't know. I've never experienced it. Exactly. It's hard to, like, desire something you don't know you want to desire.
    27:26
    Yeah. So, yeah, to all those people that are like, oh you need to bring this up with Mel again and raise these questions We don really because it already been established with mobile Mobile is a different beast And people are going well why is it on Switch is something you can take out and play around the place. Switch is actually a console. It's not a mobile.
    27:55
    Although people treat it like a mobile. It's a portable. Yeah, there you go. Portable is the word. Yeah. So there is a distinct difference.
    28:06
    When it comes to the PC version, have you discovered anything new about that, Jared, from playing beta to now playing the actual version?
    28:20
    I didn't notice anything particularly jumping out. It might have just been some of those things we brought up in the last episode about censorship and stuff. Yeah, I think there might have been. I can't really see. Somebody pointed out that I think they were saying there was an issue with the songs. That for a little while on Creature, it was stuck on only one song for the entire thing. Okay. But I don't really know.
    28:44
    I don't have an answer for that one. Sorry. I did notice something, and I think it's probably due to ROM state. But, you know, when you're in the pop bumpers in Creature, that actually increases the jackpot that you can earn. Right. what I'm unsure of, and I'm sure PinballWiz could probably pick me up on this, is whether that carries over between games, so it actually builds, or whether it's just for the game that you're in. I don't think it builds. I think it's only for the game you're in. I mean, God, if it was building for... It could be hundreds of millions. Oh my God. Yeah, you kidding me? Imagine how lucrative that'd be. I don't really have to imagine much because that's what I was doing when I was playing it in TPA. I would sit there and build up that jackpot before even starting multi-ball. I'd purposely crank up the jackpot, and I think I wanted it up around 70 to 80. What was it, 1,000? I can't remember what the... Million. Is it million? Okay, so I think I wanted it 70 to 80 million because then I would get the four-time. four-time multiplier on that, and then you hit the jackpot, and so it would be worth about $250 million, and then you'd hit the super jackpot, it would be worth $500 million, and then I would be able to cycle through again on that same ball, find the girl again, do the next jackpot, which would double all of that again, so now you're at $400 million, $500 million for the regular jackpot, and then it would be $1 billion for the super jackpot, and then if you could do it one more time, it was just absurd. I mean, it was like just stacking points. That being said, I have yet to even hit super jackpot on creature with Zen's build. Haven't hit it, haven't even come close to hitting it yet. And I've not even, that's not even trying to bother increasing the multiplier. I'm just trying to get to the super jackpot, and I can't do it. And that's on regular Zen physics, isn't it? Not classic physics. Both. Throwing it on both. Can't do it. Yeah, it's brutal, just like it should be. Which, yeah, exactly. It's like, that's what playing it in real life is like. A super jackpot should be something very rare to get in creature.
    31:16
    So, in fact, jeez, I have a hard enough time getting up to multiball. So, yeah. I can get up to multiball pretty easily. And I can do it depending on how the real machine is tuned or is behaving. I can actually do it on a real machine, but juggling two balls on a real machine is just impossible for me. Not easy. Yeah. Yeah, exactly right. Okay, going over to the peanut gallery here, we have AJ. Way to stay awake for us.
    31:49
    Can't believe you are insomniac much. He posts on whitewater the vacation jackpot thing, resets each game. Yeah, that's because all of Zen's ROMs reset each and every time. I think he's referring to in real life.
    32:09
    Oh. Potentially. Okay. Clarification needed, referee. Yeah. It really would be nice if Zen did something about, even just while you're playing that table, for however many games you play that table that any progressive reward would progress.
    32:33
    Yeah, like Vault Jackpots, for example, and Safe Cracker are brutal. Oh, yeah. It's hard enough to get a Vault Letter, but then have it reset every time. You've got to essentially have the game on for hours. Yeah. But it doesn't even help.
    32:45
    And I'm thinking that when you do 8-Ball Deluxe, it's collecting the Deluxe Ladders. Nobody does that in one game. It's over the course of many games.
    32:55
    Exactly. Now, I do get it if you're playing tournament mode. Obviously, tournament resets the jackpot every time. Yeah, that's right. That's a given. I actually think a lot of the games that are played at Netherworld, I think they always reset jackpots. They do a fair bit of tweaking when they put the games into tournament mode, so we're rarely playing on games that have carryover jackpots and stuff. Yeah, so they won't have carryovers. they won't have extra balls um that's right all that you know certainly that's that's different when you're just playing a regular game in zen of course you'd expect those things to be possible um because they are part of a regular game so yeah it would be nice for them to work out how to actually carry that so that jesus i mean they can do everything else in the game they can intercept scores and control plunger strength and all this other stuff like in in the um the time games and tournament games. So, if they can't essentially sniff out the DMD and work out what their score is and then carry that over all vault letters and then inject that back into the ROM, I'm surprised because they can do everything else. See, there is a question that we should try and remember to ask.
    34:08
    That would be a valid question right there. Okay, the referee has come back with his decision, and that is I was meeting in FX3. I haven't played a physical light water yet. so yeah okay that's what he was talking about um i was shooting at an arcade on this tv show the other day uh it was called player one it's in north hollywood and i actually knew about this arcade because uh do you know who jack black is Jared? Yeah, yeah. The actor slash magician.
    34:47
    Yes. Not magician, musician. Musician. I'm sure you can do some magic too. I'm sure we can. He's got a YouTube channel called Jablinski Games that he actually started with his sons, but then wound up kind of taking it over.
    35:04
    And he takes his kids to arcades all around Southern California all the time. And this happened to be one of the arcades that he went to. So I knew of it. But walk in, and yep, they had all the video games set up, and there were four machines, four pinball machines. And I was like, ooh. And they were on free play. Oh.
    35:31
    But that was because we were shooting with them. And so they had the sound turned all the way down. So they could replace it with the ding, ding, ding, ding, dings? Yes. Like the way it's doing in movies. Yes. So they had Black Knight and Space Invaders and Firepower and, oh, God, what was the fourth one?
    35:56
    It'll come to me. Oh, Grand Lizard. Oh, yeah, right. Okay. So 80s eras. Yeah, and then they had two Williams EMs, which I never can remember what those were. But then what was killing me, so those were what was going to be on camera.
    36:16
    But what killed me was over in the section where they basically had shoved every machine that they weren't going to be using, because basically they had to bring in also fake machines that could be featured on camera a lot more.
    36:29
    Fake machines. Yes, because even with the pinball, we couldn't feature Black Knight, I mean, other than in passing. We couldn't focus in on it, but they had paid for Space Invaders, so they showed the characters playing Space Invaders.
    36:47
    Right, so you've got to license the visuals per machine. Oh, yeah, it's the same thing when you see food on a TV show. They've got to license the food if it's a featured item. It's one thing if it's just in passing, but if it's featured, being used, or the camera settles on it for a long time, then it's got to get cleared.
    37:10
    So what did I see in the cast-off section? They had a brand new Jurassic Park. Oh, yeah. I'm like, oh, I want to play it. They had it next to a Jurassic World that was sitting there. And then they had unplugged and being sold. they had Doctor Who Star Wars and they had NBA Fast Break for which they were asking five grand for NBA Fast Break and for NBA Fast Break and even with it off and just sitting kind of dusty I could tell it wasn't in the greatest of shape but I'm like five grand you're nuts watch someone buy it Right. And then somebody else pointed out that they had seen in yet another room back where they had the new Black Knight game. Right, yeah.
    38:06
    So I might just have to go visit this place when it's up and running normal. So I have actually played the new Jurassic Park. They've got one at a pro version at Netherworld. Oh, very good. Yep. And so it's the most interesting part of the pro one is the way they've done the captive ball. So the captive ball is essentially a ball bolted into the play field like normal, but instead of having the ball in a channel, it actually rotates in 360 degrees on a pivot around itself. So it'll flip one way and then it will flip the other way. And I think there's some interplay in how modes work or something whenever the ball is a certain way. So it's almost like a two-position captive ball. It's really an innovative way of doing capitalism. Right, so it's one ball mounted that doesn't move, and then the other ball is mounted on the thing that spins on the post, right? Yeah, pretty much. So more or less it's croquet.
    39:09
    Oh, yeah, I guess. Yeah, it is a bit like that. And it's cool. I think they've got one of the trucks on the top of the mechanism, so it's almost like a U-shape. so there's a um uh it uses a similar mechanism to the crane on batman 66 um which has like a little spring-loaded sort of a thing to like dampen the the shock of the ball hitting right so um uses a similar mechanism to that but it's like all in this little pivot and it's it's kind of cool um the pro has got enough stuff on it that i don't think you're gonna get bored with it but of course you know the premium's got the the t-rex that eats a ball and no the t-rex and then throws your ball from somewhere on the table to damage it. Yeah, that's right. To crack plastics and make the operator pissed off. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, it's a great feature. Great feature. A very good after-sales feature because you'll be constantly replacing plastics on it. Yeah. Was it an interesting table to play, though? Yeah, it was actually pretty good. It was... The problem is it was in the tournament, and I'd never seen it before. Some people had managed to get three plays on it somewhere else in Brisbane, on another one that's in Brisbane, but I'd never touched it before in my life.
    40:27
    And the tip I got apparently is if you go for Chaos, remember Chaos in the Dada East Jurassic Park, that's what you get after you shoot for multi-ball and you get a jackpot, you can go Chaos and you'll get like Chaos multi-ball, I think. So Chaos is still in the game, but it's used differently. But apparently if you go, you got to spell Chaos in order. and if you do that, you get big points. But it's not as easy as it sounds.
    40:52
    I wouldn't think it would be. Jay popped in once and it says that, you mean if it's branded food, they only show it clearly if the brand pays the TV program?
    41:04
    No, that's product placement. So clearances is the TV show going to the brand and saying, hey we want this to be shown basically because it's to help with the reality of something you know when everything is instead of cheerios it roundios you immediately as a viewer go hey that ain reality uh yeah and it brings you out so they want to be just like well no it going to be cheerios and they talk with you know the manufacturer of that and be like hey we just want it do we have clearance to actually feature your your brand and the show can be like yeah sure that's fine now if the show goes oh but we want it to be part of the episode and that this particular character loves Cheerios and makes an announcement of that, well then the food company will actually be paying the production to feature it because it's brand placement.
    42:11
    And brand placement is usually painfully obvious. Yeah, because it's like, you see it all the time on reality TV, right? Like you see they might be, and it's bad over here in Australian reality TV, but I'm sure it's the same in us where they will actually have like a product shot a long like dwelling product shot on that on that product and it's like you know turned around so the label is really facing the camera and often the the two reality tv stars will actually be interacting with the product or doing something with the product so uh well i remember product placement so way back in the Today I worked on a show called Alias.
    42:51
    Oh, yes. Jennifer Garner. Yes, who's really sweet. He did a shot where they were like, Hey, we've got to catch that car. Let's go into this Ford Focus GTX. And you're like, what?
    43:12
    And then so they hop in the car, and the car, so our camera's down low, The car backs up into a perfectly framed shot of the logo, and then the car takes off forward. I was just like, are you kidding me?
    43:29
    Yeah, that's just terrible. And then I was just thinking, there's a show, I watch a car show called Bitchin' Rides that I watch, and they were ordering parts, and they're like... Off Mopar. No, no, no, that would be a specific brand. No, it was, well, let's call Rock Auto Parts.
    43:51
    No, it was Original Parts Group. They're like, boy, Original Parts Group really came through for us, didn't they? Yeah, they did. Oh, look, we got this. We should just, you know, whenever we need anything, we should always check Original Parts Group first. And I've noticed this over the past couple of episodes. I'm like, oh, my God, obviously they got a paid sponsor. And the last episode, the guy that owns the whole company, Dave Kindig, he's doing this line, and he does it, and then he goes like this to the camera. He goes, just kind of wink, raise the eyebrows, like, yeah, we know.
    44:29
    I love it. That's funny. At least they can self-deprecate that much. that they're like, yeah, come on, I think it's blind free to tell that it's a paid sponsorship.
    44:42
    But it's like, you're not going to turn down that kind of money. I mean, James Bond movies are notorious for product placement. Oh, everything in it, like champagne to... Oh, champagne, the watch, the cars, yeah, it's like... Everything. Phones, there's like gratuitous product stops in all the modern bonds of phones and them using the phones to actually do it. And not, you know, movie phone interfaces, but actual product interfaces that are production live. Well, that was where everybody with the Matrix, when the Matrix first came out, and it was that phone that Nokia made. And it didn't exist, and everybody was like, you're idiots. Why didn't you make, that should have been for sale the day that movie came out. Absolutely. It was cool. Yeah. And the reason why it makes financial sense to do this stuff is because, like in the case of a Bond movie,
    45:44
    well, BMW, if that's the car that's being featured, will then run ads for your movie about BMW and be like, see the new BMW in James Bond, whatever. Well, do you know, I mean, many times movies spend more money on the advertising and the marketing of the movie than the movie actually cost. Oh, yeah, that's where the budget comes in. Yeah, I mean, it's silly. To me, it's like, wait, so you spent $200 million to make this movie, and I see there's $200 million on screen, and then you're going to spend $200 million to advertise it.
    46:23
    Kind of weird. So getting sponsors and co-branded sponsorship deals in, it saves a fair bit of money for the studios.
    46:35
    The classic, the funny example is, so Seinfeld, the TV show, was notorious for, he had all of his boxes of cereal, and he was always eating from the boxes of cereal. And at that time, when that show came out, It was very common for, we call it greeking out a product, which means… Greeking out. So you're basically covering part of the logo with a piece of tape or changing the shape of the logo so that you can't 100% say that that product was there, but it was greeked out. It was altered. It was festered.
    47:15
    Festered. Yes, festered. See, it doesn't just happen in pinball. And Seinfeld was like, well, no, I don't want that. It's silly. It brings me out. I don't care. We're not even going to ask for clearance. I'm just going to put the cereals up there.
    47:29
    And so they did. And they got a call from one of the cereal manufacturers. Kellogg's or something. And they were like, did you guys get clearance for that? Did we miss? I don't know. Do we have clearance for that? and they were like no we didn't we didn't get clarence they're like oh well we're fine with your does our cereal being on there they're like okay good so there we go fine right which is and you'll i think i've mentioned this before here on this on this podcast but it's been a while um the the infamous junior mints episode where the junior mint get they're watching a lot you know, a live, what do they call it, the surgery theater, you know, where you're able to watch surgery happening. They call that theater or whatever. And Kramer accidentally drops a Junior Mint into the body that they're operating on.
    48:29
    Do you think they got clearance from Junior Mints to do that? Of course not. I wouldn't think so. No, because Junior Mints is like, we don't want our product being associated with a botched surgery. They did it, didn't ask for permission. Junior Mint saw their sales skyrocket before they could complain, and so they didn't bother complaining. They went, meh. Because, you know, Seinfeld back in the day had the pull. Like, it was a hugely syndicated show. It was seen everywhere. If you had a television, it was on it. So, like, for a company to just have, like, a product shot in it, like, that's just organic marketing right there. That's money in the bank. Even if it was used in a questionable way, people don't care. Like, they go, oh, yeah, Junior Mints. When they go to the aisle, that seed is planted. And they go, oh, yeah, if I want mints, I'll grab some Junior Mints next time. And the one that is, I think, most famous literally is the movie E.T. because they went to M&M's and said, can E.T. collect M&M's off the ground? And Hershey went, no, your movie sounds stupid. We don't want to be associated with that. It's going to probably bomb. and so they went with Reese's Pieces and basically that made Reese's Pieces popular enough that they've never... They made a boatload of money in Reese's Pieces sales and if it hadn't been for that movie you probably wouldn't be able to be eating Reese's Pieces today. Probably not. No. Like they even, we have this golf place that's called Holy Moly and it's like one of those you know, it's an indoor golf mini golf center and one of the holes is a themed hole about et and you have to shoot around the reese's pieces on the ground to actually get to the hole like it's it's it's brilliant you know they're they're very smart to like if you reject the ability to be in a movie these days as a brand i don't think you've actually got your head screwed i'm right no i will say it's not like m&ms is hurting for saying no of course not like you know i think they're doing okay but uh reese's pieces you know like absolutely picked one off the ground there it's like picking hundred dollar bills off the floor yeah yeah yeah so that's why you know hey look jared we've worked in movies snacks and pinball all into one podcast um we we did it this is a uh a full show this time for sure it does what it says in the box we we got the hat trick um we sure did okay and now i forgot what my point was that's okay um that's my point you know all right so you know what my i can feel my voice getting a lot more crackly i'm gonna call it here um good idea yeah right so basically the moral of this episode is quit your bitching about the mobile app yeah basically and if you don't like it go to a platform that doesn't have IOP, case closed. Ta-da! You can get a Switch now, like one of the new version Switches without all the detachable stuff for a lot less than one with all the detachable stuff and the ability to connect to the TV. Go and get a Switch. It's good. And then you'll be able to play other games too.
    51:46
    Yeah, you've got a lot of really interesting pinball games on there that I haven't seen on any other platform either. so I would if I was looking for an alternative to mobile that I would be strongly considering a Switch Jared keeps on talking about it, it's in his future I just know it well you know what I actually got I got a Nintendo DSi free from a friend and have a guess what I did I went immediately and put a SD bootloader on it and went to a totally official site and downloaded a whole pile of ROMs and started testing those ROMs out to make sure they work properly. And it turns out they do. So... But it's kind of cool to have a... Like, just something you can pick up and move around with. And, like, it's designed to be... Essentially, when you close the lid, it just pauses the game. And as long as you've got power in it... How old is your son?
    52:43
    Zachary's nine, and Sienna's six. Yeah, video game systems in your future. Yeah, exactly. Exactly right. and then Jared is going to co-opt it and be like sorry kids I had to take it on the train yeah yeah that's right oh and that switch no you can't take that to school but I can take it to work with me have you done your homework yet sorry you can't have that nope can't have it alright so we're going to call that an episode hey why don't you go ahead and follow us it's been right there the entire podcast the old at blockade for twitter or you can follow So me, watch this. Here we go.
    53:24
    And I hit the wrong. There it is. Shut your traps. I didn't do it smoothly. Damn it. Or Jared gets the old. No, I did the wrong one. There it is. At Jared Marks.
    53:39
    And make sure you visit the website. That is block8pinball.com slash episodes. And that's where you find all of our previous episodes. of course subscribe to the youtube channel so then you can visually watch us make the magic happen and i totally encourage you to make that sausage yeah make the sausage uh go to uh twitch tv or twitch.tv underscore or you know slash blockade underscore pinball there you go uh follow our channel and then you can watch live enjoy this delicious word salad that we just provided yes Exactly. Because, I mean, hey, if Jay there who lives over in apparently not Scotland like I thought, but in jolly old England can be up at the middle of the night watching us, so can you.
    54:31
    All right. Programming note, no podcast next week because my boy is getting his second-degree black belt, so I'm going to be busy, busy, busy, busy, busy. Plus I'm working, of course. So that'll be not happening next week. By that point, though, by the time we come back around and do the next podcast, we'll see just how many table parts I've been able to collect and give an update on the mobile app that way. Yeah. All right. Until then, Jared, what else might we talk about the next podcast? A high probability of stuff and things.
    55:15
    Correct. All right. Until then, folks, buh-bye.