Welcome to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. I'm your host Kaneda. Everybody, I've got one question for you today. How many boutique pinball companies have failed? How many? How many do you think? Turn to your kids, turn to your wife, ask yourself how many boutique pinball companies have failed and how many have succeeded? Now the reason I'm going to do this show is because I'm starting to see some similarities in all of these companies that have thrown their hat into the pinball ring and we've seen it time and time again. And for some crazy reason, when I give you the number of the amount of pinball boutique companies that have been unsuccessful in creating a sustainable, profitable pinball company, for some reason, every time a new company pops up, we think they're going to succeed. And at what point as a community, are we going to start using logic and common sense and just look at the numbers, look at the data, look at the chances of success in I think everybody that starts a pinball company is passionate. I think everyone who says, I'm going to make a pinball machine and a new game and a new company and I'm going to bring something different to pinball. I think everybody, I mean this, everyone goes into it with good intentions. And for the most part, the people behind all these startup pinball companies have been good people. They've been nice people, not everybody, but most of them. And so even so, most of them fail. And I'm going to give you what that number is. And it's going to shock you. What's even more shocking than the number is this community's never ending desire to get Get behind and back and say that everything is going to work out because what could possibly go wrong? And the story that I've seen time and time again is this. It's two things that come together and I mean it. And the two things are this. It's passion and delusion. And I mean it. And I know delusion is a strident word, but I think what happens with all of these startup pinball companies, they're very passionate about pinball and they have good intentions. But when it comes to making the product and doing all of the heavy lifting required to turning your dream into a manufactured product that is certified, that's not going to burn someone's house down, that has all the elements needed so that you can safely put a pinball machine into someone's home or bar or restaurant or basement. I think when they realize everything that has to go into it, I think when they see all that stuff, they still say to themselves, we're going to do it. Like we're going to make it happen. And that's where they get delusional. And it's weird because it's almost like the bigger their passion becomes, the bigger the delusion becomes. And they start to think, if I can just get games out, everything will work out. And we've seen this time and time again. And many of them have come close to getting games out. Some have even I've gotten a game or two out, but that doesn't change the fact that to be a successful company in pinball, you need to have your manufacturing turned on more days than it's turned off. And it's just that simple. Not even more days. You almost need to have your line going five days a week or else you will be losing money every time games are not on the line and going out the door. Okay? Seeinging some similarities again between Haggis Pinball and Highway Pinball and I'm going to point out what they are at the end of this show and I'm going to read for you a story and I'm not making this story up. This is a story from a media outlet in Australia when Haggis Pinball sort of announced Fathom a year ago and I want to read that story for you and I want us to ask ourselves doesn't a lot of this narrative sound a lot like the other boutique pinball companies that through their So, I asked you, how many boutique pinball companies do you think have failed? Do you have the number in your head? Let's count right now, company by company, all the boutique pinball companies that have failed to be successful. Now, let's start with the ones that have just been dire failures over the years. Deep Root Pinball, Zidware, Skit-B, Circus Maximus, Team Pinball, Pinball Adventures, Suncoast Pinball, Home Pin, Dutch Pinball, I have counted 10 companies that have failed to be successful in pinball. I could go on to add a few more to that list. You could also probably add Pinball Brothers to the list. Have they been a very successful pinball company? So those tend to me have been complete failures in the pinball space. Now, how many have been somewhat successful? I would say P3 Multimorphic and American Pinball have been somewhat successful. If you were to ask me, there's only one, one true boutique company that has really achieved any success and that is Spooky Pinball. So one out of 13 or 15 companies has actually figured it out. And then when you look at Spooky Pinball as a company, how did they figure it out? All of these companies had to figure it out. They released America's Most Haunted. They made a hundred and fifty of them. They learned a lot about how to make the game. But they had like no overhead. This is the biggest part. Spooky Pinball had almost no overhead. They didn't have rent. You gotta go back and look at their story. They had so many advantages to get their company off the ground. And these other companies did not. And that is why these other companies when they try to turn the Cynthia Epstein highest This and to do it five days a week and to sell hundreds of games a year and then you got to keep that line going indefinitely to stay in business and stay profitable it starts to feel like a nightmare and so nobody has the advantages that spooky does you know and then when you look at companies like CGC and Jersey Jack Pinball I mean they financed by outside income and revenue I mean CGC is financed by Churchill cabinets who makes so much money Okay guys so connectivity What is the data show us? That the chances of failure are far greater than the chances of success. And it doesn't matter how passionate you are about pinball. None of that matters. What it comes down to ultimately is that making pinball is incredibly hard. It is one of the hardest things and most complex things you can try to make. So it always begs the question, why do these people even get into it? Why? Out of all of the things that you could do, out of all of the businesses that you could turn on and easily make a profit, right? The amount of businesses you could start with the amount of capital needed to start a pinball company, you could easily put your money into things that require so much less effort and would get you a much better return. That's the other crazy part. The return on the investment, the margins in A Cuando I make it happen I actually make people with me all the time she gets hit by rejected things but man you know the other thing about not giving a shite and nothing else like coming up with something always we have been all of this time to the disent play Georgetown people are so this the in one train shut yourself you To make pinballincluding Confederate興 receptive to make pinballcomedArin holders because you immediateke which exacting outside go over these numbers wonderful. And say you can talk it out is, but méthouthluduke which talking me about competition in. And other 5 or so that are on the brink. You know I would love to see like if there's even a lot of profit over at companies like Multimorphic and American Pinball and Pinball Brothers right. Dutch Pinball. Are they really making money? So here's what scares me about this hobby is if you try to ask questions and you try to prod some of these companies you are immediately labeled as someone who's not championing the expansion of pinball. And I want to say this and I mean this, we don't need boutique pinball at all. We don't. We have a company called Stern Pinball. We don't need boutique pinball. You know it, I know it. I'm so tired of this narrative that we need to expand pinball with boutique companies. The truth is that's a lie. That Stern Pinball does not need any help expanding pinball. Without Stern Pinball, it would all go away, right? But we've got Stern. We've got CGC. We've got We've got Jersey Jack, we've got Spooky, we've got American Pinball, we've got Multimorphic. How many more do we need? How many more are going to make us feel good? And so look, when Damien started Haggis Pinball, it's great, like good, he built a game. He showed us the most important thing. He knew how to build a game. And there is a lot, and I mean this, there's a lot of respect that he deserves for building Kelts. And not just building Kelts, it is a very well-built game. What? But from there, what's happening now? And that's the point. We've seen this before. We've seen companies get one game out and then they struggle. Game two, they get more orders. In fact, getting a lot of orders for companies like this that aren't used to making volume. They're not used to making this many games. Then you throw in COVID. Then you throw in like the lockdowns from Australia. Then you throw in the fact that most of the people who make The Chicago and in America and so then it becomes a really difficult task to get every single part in-house Before you can start making these games, but here's the thing the similarities are almost uncanny All of these companies, it's not just highway. It's not just haggis Here's the mistake they all make and I've seen it and I've been covering this hobby for six years now Now they all take premature victory laps. They all start to talk about how they're going to be a company that brings pinball back. They're going to be a company that brings new design and innovation to pinball and the world is excited about pinball again and they're going to be there to serve up pinball machines to the masses. Let me read for you a story that ran in the Star News or the Cranbourne News which I'm guessing is a media outlet in Australia. This story ran on May 18th of The following week of July 1, 2021, so almost a year ago, and it's titled Our Pinball Wizards and there's a nice picture of Damien and Marty standing by Kelts and Fathom. And the picture says this, Martin Game Designer, and Damien CEO show off their waves. Let's read this story and I'm going to stop throughout it and just explain how we've seen this tale before. Okay. It starts out. Remember pinball? Just the word itself has the power to All of these are common vivid memories of those dings, rattles, lights and flashes. But they're not just a thing of the past. Pinball is back in a big way and a cranborn based company is riding the wave of the pinball resurgence. Damien Hardin founded Haggis Pinball two years ago to put the country back on the map as a serious player in the industry. Okay let stop right there for a minute Was Australia ever a serious player in the pinball industry Am I missing something Was there a period in which all these games were made in Australia at some point in time Okay we keep going Haggis game designer Martin Robbins said Mr Hardin a massive fan of the silver ball created the company from scratch and learned all he needed to produce the machines Mr. Robbins used to run pinball tournaments and met Mr. Hardin at one of these. The pair got talking and soon were working together on Haggis's machines. Haggis was named for Mr. Martin's Scottish heritage and in fact the company's first machine named Kelts celebrated the Scottish Highland Games. The second game has just been launched. Fathom Revisited, a modern twist on a 1981 classic. Mr. Robbins said, the nostalgia factor might be one reason behind the recent pinball resurgence As people turn to hobbies they remember and love from their younger days. We're part of this movement of bringing pinball back, Mr. Robbins said. I want to stop there again because I heard this. How many times are we going to hear this? That we're part of the reason pinball is coming back. You've sold how many kelts? How many fathoms? How many of them are out in the world? Stern makes more pinball machines in two days than they've ever made of kelts. And I know this seems a little bit harsh, but I'm just at the point now when I read these things and I didn't see this story a year ago. But when I read this stuff, you see what I'm talking about? That combination of passion, which we're clearly getting from this story and delusion that we are part of this movement of bringing pinball back. No, you're not. You're not part of it. You won't be part of it until you make hundreds, if not thousands of machines. Pinball is back. It's been back. It's been so successful over the last few years that Stern can't even catch up on orders. Marty then goes on to say, we have to pinch ourselves every day that we're working on something we absolutely love. Haggis is positioning itself to square up to the big boys from the U.S. The pinball industry is currently dominated by U.S. companies like Stern. Okay. I mean, this is this is the part they're positioning itself to square up to the big boys from the U.S. gingersxualpersonmeal μαςleness between feetotineirstyahlipon Enjoy some stock laying Go to www.TheCNBCadøru.t Palace and find out more about your föräldoke and more flashing. They're amusing to watch. Atomic 한데 Award TheF disproportionately dep économique weapon, Lo puppy De수 Handlebar Number1 at Europapodcast.com Am I receiving information that a Rede Kazak sent this issue you? I'm reading the description to the Advertising Agency. This soother, a cover by Microsofted Longnosoper, vertical acupressure and protective protection repeatedly. And endless more nemuestical attacks. But the Credit Card amberles... Abstinence of live action, old sorrow, Jared Meredith Will Simpson, Tiana Gallagher echoes of Hagus interview about Pivot As they release new games, COVID impacted us a lot. Mr. Robbins explained. Not being able to come into the factory to do work has caused some delays. Sourcing supplies from around the world became a bit of a challenge. But like other companies we embraced zoom. We took advantage of the time to streamline our manufacturing processes and spend time designing the game. Okay. Now I read this. This is from May of 2021. They still haven't shipped one Timing and Subtitles by Team Atomic and Timing and Subtitles by Team Atomic One fathom. So something clearly wasn't figured out, something clearly wasn't streamlined, and something clearly got in the way over and over and over again. The story goes on. The majority of development on Fathom Revisited happened during COVID. Out of the challenges we had with COVID, we were able to take the time to re-engineer a lot of things and come out as a well-known All of these are pinball manufacturers with a global presence. If you have a thread on pin side, are you now a global presence? Is that how it works? I mean, all over the world, people know who Haggis Pinball is. I mean, come on. Again, this is it. This is the part that I just, it's just like you pat yourself on the back. You take victory laps. You use hyperbole like this. You're not a global presence. So I get it. I get what they're saying. You know, they've shipped some kelts all over the world and everyone in the pinball community knows who they are now. So while this is not inaccurate, it does read like you're bigger than you are. You're not there yet. Let me ask you guys a question. Was Spooky talking like this between America's Most Haunted and Rob Zombie? Were they talking like this? No. Go read Spooky interviews after America's Most Haunted because that's where Haggis is after Kelce. Now go read the difference of how they're speaking about themselves. Spooky was just like humbled and thankful to survive and they realized like how hard it was polymer, Doun Cox, Variable Texanas, Part PCR acontecendo Flying 2003 by KangHeaven-Mes materia collateral Pix336 I know you guys know that I love pinball. I love it. I know I've seen it in Australia around the world is really social. It's a great way to connect with people. Well, I agree with you on that Marty. It is back. It is a great way to connect with people. And he's right. And this story is not inaccurate. This story is simply reminding me of what we've heard from other pinball companies who had the same passion. They had the same narrative. All these narratives are the same. All these stories are the same. I know I just read you a Haggis media story, but you could just take Haggis and replace it with Circus Maximus people, with Pinball Adventures people, with Suncoast Pinball people, with Home Pin. You know, the story is always the same. The story is always the same And you might be wondering like Kaneda why are you even talking about Haggis again Like why Why are you going back to this narrative And I tell you why I want to do these stories until they show us an update until they give us a video tour of what going on I have done my show this way since the beginning This is what I do This is what I do on this show This is what I passionate about I passionate about giving my opinions of the games that come out but I also passionate about holding these companies I'm going to ask him what happened with Guns N' Roses? What happened with the last Jersey Jack games? And has he fixed the problem? Because this hobby and this community, it can be the greatest at times, but it also can be like a community that just stops thinking critically and stops Closed Caption by ClosedCaptions.com score teasing Our Courage Highlights WPPR heavenly Score quarterback Traditionally dariT tylkoHeele Scient separated I'm not going to be the one to say that. I don't even want to think about that. They don't even want to say that. That, oh, there's a chance you might not get your game. And it's not me making up this controversial narrative. I just told you 10 companies that had the same passion, that had the same desire to be successful in the boutique pinball space. And there really only is one that's ever done it successfully and done it for years. And that's Spooky. So what's different? Like, am I just being a jerk? What's different about this new company that's going to make it successful? What advantages does Haggis have over Spooky? What advantage do they have being all the way over in Australia? I know they've got the passion and I know Damien is smart like he figured out how to make kelts but it's not just about making kelts. It's about this is it. Like you're making a pinball company. You've got Marty on your staff. You're paying him money. He's now saying he's a game designer. You gotta pay him to design the game. His game is not Centaur. It's not the next remake. You are setting up a company to make multiple games. Not just game one or two, but three, four, five. Can you be successful and get to five games if your company can't keep the line on consistently? That's the part that just makes me nervous. No one wants to talk about it. Everybody does their victory laps. Everyone says Kaneda's toxic. Kaneda's bad for the How to Sinds Play Pinball But Dull positions生活 further functionality in my behaviors burgers everything together in Covert iPhone and Another In Chip English. PeytonToyte.com You've got the best content in the world and you'll get the boken I like it so much. I'm happy there's a Jersey Jack Pinball, which brought a lot of innovations to pinball. If it wasn't for Jersey Jack Pinball, we wouldn't get what we now get in a Stern machine. So competition is good. I'm glad Chicago Gamingcompany is bringing back some of these epic titles from yesteryears because people used to have to spend like $15,000 on a good restored HEP version of those games. Sadly now because the inventory is so light, nowadays like a Medieval Madness from CGC is actually more money than it was back in the day, back when we were buying restored ones. I'm happy that Spooky's around. I love the Spooky story. Now Spooky's gotta grow up and mature and hire better people and get their games more polished. I think Spooky's taken advantage of all the goodwill they've built and I think their recent releases are a little bit of a letdown. I think those games never should have gone out the way they did and I think they've lost a lot of the talent that put Spooky where they are. You know everyone else is trying to find relevancy. Everyone else is trying to find customers on a consistent basis, right? We finally get a P3 multi morphic title that excites people. That's great American Pinball. I'm excited for the Dennis Nordman game. I'm not excited for legends of a hollow, you know, but it is what it is. I don't think spinal taps going to be any good and then that's it. You've got fathom from haggis and then there's nothing else. But how much pinball do we need? Right? How much pinball do we need? I get nervous when people I know you are not in on Fathom, I have almost twice as many Kaneda Club members as Fathom Mermaid Editions that sold like on some twisted level. I'm even more popular than some of these boutique companies But I'm always gonna do shows like these because we need to ask these questions Let me know what you guys think is this being too harsh? Should I just be like we know what forget it let them figure it out and that's that now also like there's not a ton of Pinball content right now. I'm just waiting for Toy Story once Toy Story hits I can't wait to just either gush over it or commit pinball Harry Carey because I can't believe they messed up Toy Story, everybody this has been Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Just ask the questions. Don't fold like lawn chairs. Let's keep these companies accountable together. Later. www.patreon.com