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Episode 154 – Søren Strikes Back

Slam Tilt Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Nov 17, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Søren Bora announces official Williams/Bally ROM releases via PPS partnership

Summary

Søren Bora announces a major collaboration with Planetary Pinball Supply and Rick Bartlett to release official ROM updates for classic Williams and Bally pinball games. The initial launch includes four titles—Rojo, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Junkyard, and Roadshow—with fixes targeting competition play usability and home play experience. The episode explores ROM modification philosophy, tournament implications, and the debate around changing classic games versus respecting original designer intent.

Key Claims

  • Søren is releasing official ROM updates for Williams and Bally games in collaboration with Planetary Pinball Supply and Rick Bartlett

    high confidence · Søren direct announcement: 'in collaboration with Planetary Pinball Supply and Rick Bartlett, we are now going to release updates for games that has a mark that says Williams and Bally'

  • The initial ROM release will include four games: Rojo, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Junkyard, and Roadshow

    high confidence · Søren: 'the ones I'm happy to announce will come out is Rojo, and Creature from the Black Lagoon, and Junkyard, and Radical' [note: he says 'Radical' here but context suggests Roadshow based on later discussion]

  • Getaway was never released in competition play because of code issues like the L4 bug, which Søren's ROM fixes

    high confidence · Ron: 'people didn't know about the being stuck in, what's it called, for getaway... But each version that they did try to fix made another issue later on. So with your ROM, you get the best of both worlds'

  • Radical/Roadshow ROM removes free multiball generation from other players and randomizes jackpot/Mega Million patterns

    high confidence · Søren: 'the multi-ball is on your own merit only. You don't get anything for free from other players... And the jackpot or the Mega Million has a pattern to it, so it is not random'

  • Creature from the Black Lagoon ROM fixes multiple bugs including exploitable super jackpots, stuck modes, and gives purpose to unused 10/20/30 million lights

    high confidence · Søren: 'there's a number of bugs in Creature... you can get stuck on a lot of pop bompers... the 10, 20, 30 million lights... they had no purpose... I've made a little purpose for that'

  • Junkyard ROM limits video mode restarts to once per ball and caps super skill shot payoff at 13 million with adjustability

    high confidence · Søren: 'I basically pulled out a lot of ways to start the video mode... it can only happen once per ball... I also put a lid on the super skill shot... 13 million in total and that is mini adjustable'

  • Roadshow ROM advances modes via slingshots (similar to Twilight Zone/Addams Family) to enable home play variation and strategic competition play

Notable Quotes

  • “if you are Søren off then I am Søren on”

    Søren Bora @ early in episode — Humorous pronunciation explanation using light switch metaphor

  • “Ronald is the world hub for customized software”

    Bruce Nightingale @ mid-episode — Acknowledges Ron Hallett's extensive use of custom ROMs in his collection

  • “You're fixing flaws that were not even known. So that's a great thing.”

    Ron Hallett @ mid-episode — Core justification for ROM modifications

  • “As long as you don't change the soul of the game... when I'm playing Demoman, it's got a Stormraven. It doesn't feel any different other than the fact that I can actually use the claw now.”

    Zach Sharpe @ mid-episode — Key principle for acceptable ROM changes: preserve game character while fixing bugs

  • “a pinball machine is not a video game... there's no difference between making an outline wider and adjusting the software. it's all part of a tournament director's effort”

    Ron Hallett @ mid-episode — Philosophy on tournament setup legitimacy and ROM changes

  • “These games were originally made for coin play, and they were made in no time. Pinball machines are punched out very fast.”

    Søren Bora @ mid-episode — Explains design constraints of classic Williams/Bally era machines

  • “I would say when it comes to the ROM changes, a lot of this wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for tournaments.”

    Ron Hallett @ late-episode — Tournament culture as driver of ROM development

  • “There was no points for extra balls either... That's always an annoying thing.”

    Søren Bora @ discussing T2 bug — Identifying T2 software bugs affecting tournament play

Entities

Søren BorapersonRon HallettpersonBruce NightingalepersonZach SharpepersonRick BartlettpersonPlanetary Pinball SupplycompanySlam Tilt PodcastorganizationMatt ScottpersonKayleeperson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Søren Bora announces official ROM updates for Williams and Bally games via partnership with Planetary Pinball Supply and Rick Bartlett

    high · Direct statement from Søren: 'in collaboration with Planetary Pinball Supply and Rick Bartlett, we are now going to release updates for games that has a mark that says Williams and Bally'

  • ?

    product_launch: Four games announced for initial ROM release: Rojo, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Junkyard, and Roadshow

    high · Søren listing: 'the ones I'm happy to announce will come out is Rojo, and Creature from the Black Lagoon, and Junkyard, and Radical' [Radical appears to be Roadshow based on discussion context]

  • ?

    code_update: Multiple ROM modifications targeting competition play fairness: progressive jackpot fixes, multiball generation balance, and mode sequencing

    high · Detailed explanations of fixes across four games addressing competition-specific issues like coin-op design holdovers

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Core principle articulated: ROM changes should fix bugs and preserve game character without altering fundamental 'soul' of the game

    high · Zach Sharpe: 'As long as you don't change the soul of the game... when I'm playing Demoman, it doesn't feel any different other than the fact that I can actually use the claw now'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Classic Williams/Bally games designed for coin-op locations with specific mechanics (progressive jackpots, long modes) that create fairness issues in competition and home play

    high · Søren explaining System 11 progressive jackpot design: 'that is pure coin-stocking design... if it's been bumped up by previous plays, that's where he puts his coins'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.457

0:00
Yes? Uh, excuse me, sir. We're citizens. So? Uh, how old are you, sir? What? Yeah, well, I think you're old enough to know better. Can you step out of the car, please? Why? What's this all about? Hey, we'll ask the question, sir. Uh, how much have you had to drink today, sir? Yeah. You can make it easy as a hannibal if you just cooperate. Hey, I'm going somewhere else. Well, everything looks secure out here.
0:44
Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Tilt Podcast, the show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett, here with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. And you get a pinball. And everybody gets a pinball this week. They do? They do. On episode 154, everyone gets a pinball. But what does that mean? I see you purchase it. Oh, you used to have good games, Ron, at your house. Oh, here we go again. You used to have Star Trek, and you used to have Star Trek Next Generation. And you sold both of them. And when you sold both of them, what's the latest game you bought?
1:22
Star Wars. Which version? Comic book edition. The superior edition. Which version version? Pro. Okay. So the pro at least saves you a little bit. It's still Star Wars. It still sucks.
1:35
Oh, okay. And the comic book version does look better than the regular. So you're at least plus two on a normal person who has a pro. Who else do we know that has a pro Star Wars?
1:49
Who's that? It's Slam Tilt Zach. It is Slam Tilt. You guys can hear me. Crap. Yes. Damn it. We can hear you. And we have another guest on today, Ron. Tell them who it is, folks. A very special guest, because there's an announcement coming up that will be out at the time that this is released. It's a Slam Tilt exclusive. I give you everyone's favorite ROM master.

high confidence · Søren: 'I basically made it like, you know, from Twilight Zone and The Addams Family, where pups will advance the lit mode throughout 14 of the 18 ones'

  • Theatre of Magic is the next ROM coming out after the initial four titles

    medium confidence · Søren teases: 'one that people are asking me about a lot is Theatre of Magic so I say that will be that will be out next'

  • System 11 games with progressive jackpots were designed for coin play to encourage repeated play; tournament directors later modified code to randomize jackpots for fairness

    high confidence · Søren: 'that is pure coin-stocking design... a guy walks into an arcade... the jackpot is announced... if it's been bumped up by previous plays, that's where he puts his coins'

    • Steve Ritchie
    person
    Josh Sharpperson
    Jim Bencisoperson
    IFBAorganization
    PAPAorganization
    Sterncompany
    Williamscompany
    Ballycompany
    Gottliebcompany
    Keith Elwinperson
    Pinsideorganization
  • ?

    industry_signal: Tournament play has driven ROM modification development and adoption; PAPA and InDisc tournaments regularly feature custom ROMs

    high · Ron: 'I would say when it comes to the ROM changes, a lot of this wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for tournaments'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Theatre of Magic confirmed as next ROM project; additional games in development with promise of 'more advanced, more complete work'

    medium · Søren: 'one that people are asking me about a lot is Theatre of Magic so I say that will be that will be out next'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Discussion of games problematic for tournament play (T2, Black Rose, Whodunit) and potential ROM fixes; T2 has known bugs affecting competition fairness

    high · Josh Sharp experienced T2 super jackpot bug in PAPA final; multiple participants discuss T2 issues and Black Rose repetitive strategies

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: IFBA maintains banned games list and tournament rules; Papa operates parallel tournament director guidelines; flexibility exists for custom ROMs with transparency

    high · Discussion of IFBA banned games list and Papa tournament director guidance regarding game conditions and custom code

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Shift in community acceptance of ROM modifications for competition use, driven by bug fixes and fairness improvements, though some players resist changes due to familiarity

    medium · Discussion of player concerns about ROM changes: 'if people Feel they have an advantage Because the way to make points is a bit Difficult... they feel confident that they can Perform better'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Planetary Pinball Supply established as official distributor for Søren's ROMs, suggesting formalization of previously informal modification ecosystem

    high · Søren announcement of collaboration with Planetary Pinball Supply and Rick Bartlett for official release

  • ?

    design_innovation: Roadshow ROM implements slingshot-based mode advancement (similar to Twilight Zone/Addams Family) to improve home play variety while preserving strategic competition play

    high · Søren: 'I basically made it like, you know, from Twilight Zone and The Addams Family, where pups will advance the lit mode throughout 14 of the 18 ones'

    • 2:14
    We have Soren. Yes. Hi, Soren. Hey, guys. How are you boys doing today? We're doing it. Fabulous.
    2:23
    So how do you say your last name? Bora. There you go. That's why I had Soren say it, because I would have totally butchered that badly. I would have butchered it also. I butcher everything. He's a man so famous in pinball, he only needs one name anyway. He does. Well, my first name has two pronunciations. There's a formal and an informal. Oh. To make matters even more interesting. the formal way is Søren and the informal way is Søren where you kind of not say the R and I've actually thought up a way for people to remember it so you know a light switch it can be on it can be off okay so if you are Søren off then I am Søren on let's just say it a little faster Saran. Okay. It was like Saruman.
    3:22
    Yes. Enough of language education today. Yes. Let's talk some pinball. We're talking pinball. And more importantly, we're talking ROMs. Yes. Yeah.
    3:35
    So let's talk about the story. Yeah, the story, if you've been following Pinside. Maybe we should backtrack a bit. It's true that my interest in pinball and my curiosity about pinball that goes way back have sort of put me in a position where I was very interested in figuring out how the software works on a pinball machine. And especially when I came to know about competition play and some of the shortcomings that made some of these wonderful games not so applicable to competition usage, at least on the high level. That really inspired me to put in the effort to figure this out. And as soon as you've made a few simple changes and it works, then you're inspired to make more complicated things and dig deeper and make better tools to assist it. And that has now put me in a position where I've made some stuff that is on a quality level that it can be released, basically. So I'm very happy to announce that in collaboration with Planetary Pinball Supply and Rick Bartlett, we are now going to release updates for games that has a mark that says Williams and Bally. How about that? Woo-hoo! Now, Ron has had many Soarin' ROMs in his games. We have so many custom ROMs in my basement. It's ridiculous. It's between all the old CERNs and the Soren ROMs. Ronald is the world hub for customized software. Yeah. I really want to thank you guys for having such an open mind about it and supporting software modifications. And I'm very brilliant at having modifications in general. I mean, using it. You're fixing flaws that were not even known. So that's a great thing. Well, think about it. people didn't know about the being stuck in, what's it called, for getaway, you know. There was never a perfect version for getaway. But each version that they did try to fix made another issue later on. So with your ROM, you get the best of both worlds. You get the fixes that they originally intended, but you put them all together.
    5:55
    So that's a great thing. And we have the open-mindedness of saying, you know, I want this game in a competition. People don't put getaways in competitions because of having the wrong code of like the L4, that kind of stuff. And you made it so people can play this in competition again. It might be a long playing game, but guess what? It's still fun. It was my pleasure. And actually, the getaway is one of my favorite games. I mean, I played it a ton back in the day, and it just rocks, man. Oh, it does. That Steve Ritchie game to its par. That's a good Steve Ritchie game. Oh, man, we're going to keep going with the Star Wars all day.
    6:36
    Even when he's outnumbered, he still just can't stop. Yeah. I can't because of the truth. Speak of the truth. So between us all, let's see, I have Mouse in around, Getaway, Roller Games, and Demoman all running the Soarin' Robs. I believe, Zach, you have the Demoman. Yeah, and I'm just waiting for the Black Rose store in addition to our Maddie Day. Got my fingers crossed. And I will be able to use it on a creature, my dad's creature.
    7:09
    So when that comes out, I'll be able to use it on that. Yes. There's something for everyone. Is there one coming out for whodunit?
    7:19
    Actually, I owned a whodunit a couple of years ago and wanted to look into it. and I was poked by a local guy here who also have one, who hated the, what is it, skill set? The skill plunge, you know, thingy. You can run on that. But I never got to look into it. Oh, okay. There's the awesome bug with the unlimited multiball. The Kaylee, George, Carl D'Angelo exploited bug where somehow you get the three bank to come down, it just stays down, and then just hit the ramp over and over until the flippers fall off. Yeah. You want to hear an embarrassing story? Yeah, sure. Okay. I was at that pin work where the Kaylee versus Carl versus two other guys took place in the final and they rolled the game out afterwards because it's taking an hour to play or something like that. Two hours. It was bad. And I was in the three-player area, the banks, playing Felicia. And then I came back and saw the very last thing of this. and I asked the guy there, would I roll it out because you played too long? And he replied to me and said, yes, he basically destroyed the game. Who do you think I asked that? Carl, of course. Oh, okay.
    8:37
    Yeah. Was that before you started doing any ROM modifications? No, no. I think the getaway was out. No, I hadn't released anything yet at that point, but I was working. So you could have an inkling in your mind. Yeah.
    8:51
    Because that was, because originally they thought it might be a physical issue, because it happened once before, and they couldn't replicate, like, they thought it was a physical issue. It's like, well, it's not happening now, and they used it for several more rounds. They didn't have an issue with it. Oh, at the pin break? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So that was, like, the second time they used it in a big fight. Like, when it was used, and Kaylee being Kaylee, he knew the actual point.
    9:17
    Or at least knew when it was happening. and when he was starting his one ball, he saw the state that it was in and he called the tournament director over. It's like, is it okay to play this? He wanted a confirmation before he did it. Yeah, that's pretty rad, isn't it? Yeah. What ROMs will be available from PPS distributors? Yes. This premier release, the launch of this, is going to be... I've chosen four. I've chosen four and then I've done some more stuff to it to make them usable for an official release. And the ones I'm happy to announce will come out is Rojo, and Creature from the Black Lagoon, and Junkyard, and Radical. And what are the fixes for each machine, so people, they don't know what's going to be changed on these?
    10:11
    Radical was a bit of something I wanted to do, because it's sort of a... It has special resonance with me, that game. And that is basically totally useless for competition play and filled with a ton of issues, most of which I figured out while I was working on it. Oh man, this is also not working. Oh man, this is also not wrong. They just kept coming at me.
    10:38
    So now it's basically the multi-ball is on your own merit only. You don't get anything for free from other players who have locked balls or taken balls out of the trough. You know, everything is to each player's own merit. And the jackpot or the Mega Million has a pattern to it, so it is not random. Those are the two biggest things. Okay, and then for Creature, what did you change on that?
    11:09
    Creature, I have, there's a number of bugs in Creature. and one of which is actually kind of making it useless in competition if you don't make a rule so the player can't execute this exploit.
    11:27
    And there's stuff like you can get stuck on a lot of pop bombers like the super jackpots. You can get stuck on the 1x multiplier in the multi-ball and stuff like that and some other smaller things. and then the 10, 20, 30 million lights in the right in-lane area, they were only used for light show. They had no purpose. I guess it's because they ran out of time or maybe they made a placeholder thing and then forgot about it. So I've made a little purpose for that. That is tied to the big millions mode. Then I've randomized the playground award shot on the right and the snack bar also. So you can use it strategically. and have a fair competition gig on that.
    12:15
    And then Junkyard? And Junkyard is one of my favorite games of those that are often not mentioned as one of people's favorite games. I really, really like Junkyard. I like the theme. I like how it's integrated. I like the play field. It's just a marvelous game. And Ace's display work and voice work, just a splendid game. but playing it you get so fed up with playing video mode over and over again plus as you know video modes are a safe way to get points in competition so players can, on that game in a factory mode the video mode is basically restartable at will so not only does it become a bit of a boring game with a lot of video mode it also takes a long time so it has kind of been the favorite for competition for that reason so I basically pulled out a lot of ways to start the video mode so with a slight twist it can only happen once per ball so it's not completely ripped out but it's limited and then I also put a lid on the super skill shot oh good if you get a roll of that one you just win the game it can get you I think 13 million in total and that is mini adjustable so you can have it that way or you can have it reduced or you can disable it.
    13:39
    And Roadshow is by far the game that is by far one of the games I've worked on where the focus was mostly to make the game better for home play and not necessarily competition play. And that is basically to... The game has 18 modes, where three of them is the US West Coast Wizard modes, so it's 15 modes on the main as main modes. And that's a lot. And having a game starting from one end all the time makes it a long way to see all the modes. So I basically made it like, you know, from Twilight Zone and The Addams Family, where pups will advance the lit mode throughout 14 of the 18 ones. So you can, in home play, see variation from game to game. You can try different modes easily. And in competition, you can play strategically for the lucrative ones. Two of them are Quick Multi Ball, Kansas, and what is it, Nashville? Yeah, I think it's Nashville. And I think one of the later ones is very lucrative.
    14:47
    So you can basically, if you dare, you can go for the stand-up targets and try to set it up in the competition. And I really like that. And what's coming down the line from you, if you can give us a little, like, hey, this is going to be the next batch coming out. A teaser. We want a teaser. Yeah.
    15:06
    If somebody picks up the old threads about the stuff I've done, that might be a fair guess. But there's no promise of when things will come out, and there's no promise that... But I can definitely say that all of them are not being re-released, at least not in the form they had. Then it will be a more advanced, more complete work. but I will tease that one that people are asking me about a lot is Theatre of Magic so I say that will be out next shoot the orbit well the thing about Roadshow 2 is when they designed that I think this is actually in the promo video too they designed it to be a buy-in game with the whole idea that you would just keep buying in to keep moving across in the country. Yes. So that's why in home play, if you're not, if you don't have extra balls or you want to keep buying in over and over, it will get kind of long. Yeah. Boring.
    16:09
    It is. Come on. I can only see Miami so many times in the beginning, or New York. I thought it was a neat play field. It's bad. Yes. Actually, I like the play field. It's actually one of his better play fields. The thing about Roadshow, it is just awesome. Williams at its peak, fully loaded game. galore.
    16:31
    We train ramps all over the place, diverters, two talking heads, you know. The full thing, wide body. The lock area opposite of the TZ, you know, it's up to the upper left instead of the upper right, you know. But you touched on something important there, Ron, because yes, the game was made with coin play in mind, and that is very important for me to say that I've obtained the skill to do this now, and I think I'm reasonably good at balancing changes and respecting the overall concept of the game and not change too much. But it's not a way for me to say that I'm any better than the original designers in any way, primarily because of two things. These games were originally made for coin play,
    17:19
    and they were made in no time. Pinball machines are punched out very fast. So, of course, there were slip-ups and bugs that, you know, it has taken 30 years of playing these games to discover that they didn't know about back then. And some rules and design choices are rooted in the fact that they had to go on location and be appealing for coin drop, which may be the reason why they're not so good at being used in competition or a bit tedious to use in home play now. That's why I come in. I have to revitalize these great games. There has been discussions on when it comes to changing these games, whether or not, like, who are you to decide what the rules should have been, etc., that kind of thing. Or, you know, I've gotten used to the, you know, exploiting the various, you know, that's the way it was done. Why do you think that you were the one to say how it should be done? I've seen that argument when it comes to the ROM changing. Yeah, that's totally understandable I mean, if people Feel they have an advantage Because the way to make points is a bit Difficult Or because They play by instincts So if the game plays as it used to As it always does I mean, they feel confident that they can Perform better I mean, that's totally understandable I mean That's a valid point Yeah, I've seen that, but I've also seen, like... Well, they have the option, though. That's the good thing. They can keep the original ROMs in there if they want to keep it that way, or they can buy yours and have a better game. Sorry.
    19:06
    Well, the thing is, a lot of, like, even on, like, Sorin's ROMs and a lot of Scott's ROMs, or our Scott, a lot of times their diff switches are their settings. You want it to play this way, or do you want to play this different way, etc. I don't know. The way I'd say it best for me is in, Zach knows about this, the lethal weapon code. So there was a lot of work done on lethal weapon to fix a lot of issues on lethal weapon. The thing is, when I play the new code, it doesn't feel like I'm playing lethal weapon. At least the lethal weapon I knew. Yes, yes, I heard you talk about that. Yeah, and I think that's kind of, not to say anything bad about the, I mean, the fixes that were done, That's the version I'm going to use whenever I have tournaments here again because it fixes a lot of the, like the hitting the ramp forever for increasing value, a lot of stuff like that. But I would say, just so I can describe it, as long as you don't change the soul of the game, like when I'm playing Demoman, it's got a Stormraven. It doesn't feel any different other than the fact that I can actually use the claw now. Yay! I mean, Mousin doesn't feel any different than a stock Mousin. Even Roller Games, which has a ton of changes, it still feels like roller games. None of the personality of the game has really been changed. I think that's the best way I can describe it. At least that's what I look for if someone's going to be fixing a game. If it's got totally different timing or sound effects or things like that, then it's not going to feel the same as the original game.
    20:38
    Well, he's fixing the bugs. That's what I like about the way Soren addresses this stuff. He's fixing the problems that were... Well, there's bugs, and there's also gameplay changes. Like on roller games, you have, you know, stun death just doesn't randomly start. Yes. And you... And make it advantageable to one person compared to another.
    20:56
    Advantageable? Yeah, well, it's an advantage if you get... No, I mean, is that a word? It sounds like it should be a word. I think that's a word. It is. Jack, have you ever heard that word? Is that an actual word? Not a word. Sorry. I'm going to look right now. Webster's thinking this. Advantageable. Let me just touch on a few things there. By the way, Lethal Weapon 3, awesome game. Awesome game. I'm with you on that. Oh, yeah. It totally rocks. I'm so happy we have one in the lounge. But to me, a pinball machine is not a video game. I mean, games play different. They play different from condition. They play different from setup.
    21:36
    And to me, there's no difference between making an outline wider and adjusting the software. it's all part of a tournament director's effort to put the game in a condition where he likes to use it in his tournament to me that's all it is and as long if you make changes that makes the game a lot different let's say that it's unexpectedly different as long as the tournament director announces this, explains this put a piece of paper on the game that says you know this is set up this is in this way I don't see any problem with it that's why we like pinball, isn't it? As opposed to a video game or something like that. And another thing is that one of the games that are deemed unusable in tournaments,
    22:23
    then it's a bit of a shallow argument to say that you wanted the setup the way it came out of the factory. Because if no tournament director want to use it, then what's a good call? So. Well, we saw that originally. We saw the first tweaks to code, not by you, but by other people, was limiting the jackpots on a System 11. Yes. And that was the first time you saw where it made it fair for each player to play the game. Yes, and that is a perfect example of the thing I said before, that games were made for coin play, because this jackpot increment across games, across players to collect, that we see on a number of System 11 games, like I think High Speed was the first, and Big Guns, and Pool Sharks also, I think, and some others.
    23:17
    I mean, that is pure coin-stocking design. I mean, it is amazing for stocking out coins out of people's pockets in an arcade. Like, a guy walks into an arcade, there's four pinball machines. Which one do I want to play? Then the jackpot is announced in a track sequence, and if it's been bumped up by previous plays, that's where he puts his coins.
    23:41
    Another example. A guy wants to beat the high score. He has played five games. Now the jackpot is really, really, really high. But he hasn't been able to collect it. Do you think he has time and money for another game?
    23:55
    Oh, yes, he has. Even if he doesn't have, he has. So that's coin play design. But in competition, not so good. Webster's Dictionary, that is a valid word. Wow. Woo-hoo!
    24:11
    Bruce just has like a dictionary next to his desk where just like every single word crossed out and rewritten.
    24:19
    It's a valid word, I'm in! I would say when it comes to the ROM changes, a lot of this wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for tournaments. A lot of it is because of tournaments. and not just scoring imbalances but other fixes. And a lot of times, and originally you would only see it at Papa and Scott, our own Scott. He did a lot of the System 11 games with the non-randomizing the jackpot, but they weren't freely available. You would just go there and notice, like, hey, jackpot's always the same on that. How is that possible? They're all running all these custom ROMs. And you would even get situations where you'd have, like, a lineman or another Stern employee, they'd show up there with some new ROM that wasn't even out yet and put it on the game. Me and Bruce remember that. And one Papa, they put a new ACDC code that wasn't available at all, and they tested it out there. Actually, not in the tournament area, but they, you know. But it was in the free play area. Yeah. And I got burned on the CSI one. Didn't they also do that for one of Keith Elwin's games in Pintberg, where they put a software revision on that wasn't available yet? I think so. Yes. It's possible. Yes. It's possible. I think it was. I think it was for Maiden. But again, I mean, I think I'm giving tournament directors a long leash. I mean, it's your tournament. You can do what you want. I mean, the IFBA has rules for stuff you cannot do if you want to be in an IFBA tournament. Remember those? Mm-hmm. But they're... Josh is going to have to change the list up. All right. All right, more work for Josh. But as long as the tournament director is transparent about what the condition of the game is and if there's defects and stuff like that, I mean, I'm giving them a long leash. They can do what they like. Yes, and InDisc has used a lot of your ROMs along with crazy setups of games that are usually not used in tournaments because they're either too easy, they're physically altered in some way so they're actually playable, but there's usually always at least one Soren Rahm game in the bank every year. I think it was like Mousen last year, maybe it was the year before. Yes, it was. Yeah. I've been working with Jim Benciso directly on these. So let's see. If you had one game that's banned right now from competition that you think Soren could fix, what would it be?
    26:43
    Me? What would you do? Yeah, well, I'll pick one. I know mine. I'm going to look at my list. How about you, Zach? Ban some competition. Yeah, because it's got a lot of those, they will never use it again. There's the list.
    26:58
    I'd like to see T2 and more competitions. Damn it, you took mine. That was my first WPC 90s game. I was like, oh, this is fun. And once or twice ever, I got the 255 targets and multibon. I was like, ugh. You did? I haven't been able to reproduce that. I thought it was a myth. No, it's not. No, I got it once on my home game, and then once at a show, I just went and played one single game, and I got it. You've seen it on your home game? Yes. Are you sure it's running the latest doc? I don't know anymore. I sold it eventually. Oh, because the latest code, I cannot see how it's supposed to be a problem. But I can tell you the other thing, the thing that hit Josh Sharp in that Papa final, where the silver jackpot is. Yeah, I saw that. I was there in person for that. It said it was a super jackpot, but it didn't give him the points. Yeah, and then it goes to, after the animation for super jackpot, it shows that you have this and this many shots remaining to start multiball. It's actually because the game has a default it goes back to from when it sends the ball to the cannon. So the game operates in ball on playfield mode, you could say. it has ball in cannon mode or ball in playfield mode. And the problem is that it's related to a 7 second timer thing, and it expired before the ball had reached the cannon. Because of the extra ball animation.
    28:31
    And extra balls are off. It's really a nice coincidence there. That's always an annoying thing. There was no points for extra balls either.
    28:41
    No, that's right. And the game gives out a ton of extra balls. But that 255 shots to Lock balls is Yeah, if anyone out there knows more about that Please let me know I'm trying to find the list again, I can't find it You mean the Papa one? Yeah, the band game So while Bruce is looking for that What's wrong with Black Rose?
    29:05
    There's some Randomization stuff with like The different mode awards Like you shoot the center shot And it gives you a random mode to play for a tournament, those would probably be in order or something like that. And that's the double broadside, the lucrative one. Yeah, that one.
    29:23
    That's actually a canon mode, so those are in order. Yeah, those are in order. And you can sort of fix the whole broadside because you can adjust the timing of it in the settings, so you can make it not so overwhelming. My main things on Black Rose are the fact that one of the awards from the center shot is into the multiball. you know like that's definitely more than the others and then like the way that you relate the center shot is that you shoot the center shot again so if you can just lock in on that shot then it becomes just one shot all day which isn't good ah those wonderful games and then it's got the right ramp is increasing points of just a million per shot that doesn't end technically so if you can just hit that over and over I know I know how to fix that game mechanically that return gate return a trail, a habit trail from the center shot, you just make it so it goes straight down the middle.
    30:14
    Instead of popping to the right flipper. I'd actually been thinking about making a little 3D printed bracket to stick on there so that it swaps what side it drops the ball to each time. Oh, nice. Sort of like on Road King on its ramp. It has to be randomized and it has to be decided right before the ball reaches the end. So, right. Left. So it would be like the Aren't those the same things on Guns N' Roses? They're using it for the lock? Yeah. It has those little, like, they spin. Yeah, so you won't know which side it goes on. It's like whatever side, however it's turned. Apollo 13 also has one of those.
    30:53
    Oh, I just got something in chat. Yeah, Zach, I found it also. I just found it. I'm just trying to find a bug section of it. The banned games list. Bad games. It's the IFBA who has a concept of banned games, not Papa. Yeah, it is. It's actually under Papa. Well, Papa has a general, like, tournament director's guide of, like, we recommend this or do that or don't do this. They have a note for Black Rose. Highly repetitive scoring strategies. Less than this game's appeal for expert divisions. Wow. But that might also concern the right shot. No, the left shot, the lock thing. Yeah, depending on how your game is set up, if that kick out is really manageable, that can get bad. I have mine set up so it sort of hits the top of the sling almost, so it's less bad. But just another thing, like you said, with any of the adjustments to the feeds, you can adjust it to make it not have that problem as much. But it's even better if there's a software issue, so you don't have to worry about physically adjusting games or not.
    31:51
    The thing about Black Rose, that has as many adjustments as I've ever seen in a WPC menu. Yeah, it's great. I love it. Like way more than I'm used to seeing. It's like, damn, it's like a CERN game. You're going to like option 30, 40. Now, Soren, do you have any ideas about if you would go away from the William Valley and do maybe the East, like so many people have been doing, or even, God forbid, Gottlieb? I don't know if that's a big research effort and stuff to do that. Let me, first of all, let's face it, the Williams games are the most interesting ones to work on. So there's plenty of work there. As for Godleap I wanted to do something about The spinners on TX sector And figured out that It can't be done Because you know how Godleap They couldn't really Let loose of the EM way of doing games When they made the CPU games So they have this hardware thing That makes a lamp state alternate From another lamp And that's used on TX sector. So unless you rewire the game, you cannot have a situation where both spinners are off or both spinners are on. It's always one or the other. As for the indicator at least. Yeah, most people probably aren't going to want to rewire their game. No. I never noticed anything like that when I was working on Bruce's. Yeah, they have four lives. I was more thinking about the randomized stuff for like Surf and Safari and that kind of stuff where 20 million points or catch up, that kind of stuff. where you can double your points. You know, we've seen that in some earlier ballets, you know, where you can catch somebody's score. Yeah, I guess catch up to your opponent. Yeah, exactly. We used to have a class of 1812 in one of the joints that I co-run with that ramp where you could light it for a million, and as it just repeated, it was unusable. Unusable. But, yeah, I mean, it would be relatively easy, you know, a mystery thing to figure out how it decides on one or the other and limit the selection of making it fixed to one thing, that's really easy to do. Would the bigger issue be just dealing with Gottlieb or whoever is in charge of Gottlieb now?
    34:20
    I guess. Bruce, you know more about that than me. Who's that? Gottlieb. Monders. Okay. Bounders owns the rights to all of Gottlieb, and they have licensed it to, of course, Pinball Resource. So I think you would have to talk to Pinball Resource to give you the rights to something to do, and it would only be on, of course, the... Pinball Resource. You'd only be able to buy them from Pinball Resource, probably, something like that. Well, just like with PPS, though. You know, you're getting authorization from a company. I think there's actually a different company that does ROMs that's not Pinball Resource for Gottliebs. I thought you can buy ROMs through Pinball Resource, though. So that's why I'm kind of like... Maybe you can too, but I know there's another non-Pinball Resource place that does Gottliebs, and I thought they always say, like, we're the only authorized one, or maybe PV Resource is buying them from them or something. Maybe. Let's see. Let's look up. Well, what do we think would be the best Gottlieb games to fix? Oh, anything from ADB. Well, also, like, Surface Safari you can fix by disabling the skill shot, which is what Papa does. Yeah. Although then you lose the ability to have any sort of controlled feed, which sucks. Yeah. But still, it's very fun, usable, and a pop of favorite. They use that all the time. Yeah. Well, to backtrack a little, you know, on the question if Godly would be interested, if this works, if what I'm doing now works, then it might inspire others to say, okay, let's do that as well. because if software modification is something that people either think is totally undoable and will just mess up the game, or B, due to copyright issues or whatever, it cannot be done technically.
    36:03
    Once somebody proves that it can be done, it may inspire people to say, oh, yeah, we want that too. So, I mean, who knows? We talked about before what games we would like to see fixed. Who's next? Yeah, who's next, Bruce? Bruce was looking up the list for 10 minutes. I'm still looking, but then I got distracted. And he's still looking. And then Zach took mine. So you got an issue. Terminator. Terminator 2. So I'll say whodunit.
    36:30
    Because I love whodunit. I'd say... I would like to say something like Poo Sharks. Oh, yeah. That's a good little cute... Yeah, yeah. I like Poo Sharks. Let's announce System 11.
    36:43
    Bad Cats. Oh, yeah. Bad Cats. Unbeatable ramp. Oh, my God. Bruce's, yes. Bruce's choice is Bad Cats.
    36:54
    Bad Cats. Not Bad Girls, but Bad Cats. Okay. Those just, like, make me think of, I think it was Chad does the Dead East games, and the first one he did was, like, Hook. Yeah. Which, like, people ramp City, and he just, like, okay, well, the ramp is, like, a quarter, and then you need to hit this thing instead to increase it, and, like, this is, like, you're not shooting the ramp anymore. I've never played a hook, I think. You're better off. Wow.
    37:23
    So mean. That's a terrible game. God. There's so many games that air, though. Just some way to make people not just hit one ramp over and over is all you need to fix the game. Yes. That's always a physical mod, too, because a repeatable ramp is a repeatable ramp. so if you can still sabotage a tournament by prolonging your game by playing it that way so cover it up a bit and to start with right yeah so I have here ROMs may not even be your biggest contribution to tournament pinball it isn it actually isn Because where I go to tournaments I hear is it running the Soarin ROM But I'll also hear, do your games have earplugs? Yeah. Some people will be like, what? Your earplugs? For what? You're too loud. The game's too loud? You need earplugs? But that's not what that means. What does that mean? Well, I'm happy to bring it up, Ron, because I'm actually quite proud of that. I'm quite proud of that contribution. or invention, if you will. But for the longest time, I was a bit bothered by hearing people write stuff about tilts and tilting and tilt mechanism in pinball machines that wasn't true,
    38:46
    or people on streams from tournaments that were also a bit off on the facts of that matter. So I thought, you know, one day I'll make like a PDF, which is a calibration guide, some information, some basic information and a calibration guide that explains all this.
    39:07
    And then one day I decided that, no, I want to make a video. I want to try myself in filming, you know, in narrating, editing and making a piece of motion picture stuff about pinball. so I head-dived into it and made some things about explaining the tilt showing how to calibrate it and then my good old rant about the slam tilt in the end, not slam tilt podcast but slam tilt function in pinball machines then I thought up that one of the problems with things like tilt through in tournaments and people waiting between balls is the fact that the pendulum or the tilt rod is so slow to settle down.
    39:55
    I also realized that because if it is swinging very freely back and forth, it can be hard to adjust the tilt, so you get warning, but not a full tilt.
    40:05
    And it is not too loose. You want to punish the player if he notches the game a little too hard or a little too much, but maybe not necessarily go directly to tilt, because I really hate that. You know, everyone has experienced that in a competition situation, and it really sucks. one push, down, down so I thought the tricks to make all this work is that the pendulum is just settling faster and then I tried various things inspired by my buddy Christian Holmstein in Sweden who had the trick with a rolled aluminum foil that you put under the hook but I didn't think it worked too well and then one happy Saturday afternoon where I was filming I just had this idea sparked in my head that if you put a cushion foam on top of it that might be the trick to make it work and I thought earplugs are an affordable foam you know it's perfect size perfect shape perfect stiffness I would assume and then I rushed to a store and got some and came home and tried it on, and then I had a new segment for my film.
    41:23
    For those who were like, well, boom, what is he talking about? Where the rod is attached and where it hangs down.
    41:34
    Very good. So where the rod goes, there's the hole it goes through, put the foam in there, and it expands out. Wow, Bruce. And the thing about the earplug is you can do half an earplug, a quarter of an earplug. You can experiment. Quartan earplug is the best. Then it gets a wedged form that fits perfectly down into where the hook is hanging. So every time it's rotating, it's just nudging against this foam a little bit, which is enough to make it settle in like 10 seconds, 20 seconds. Perfect. Perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect game. On some Godlit games, it's a different system, so you cannot use it on them. But most of the games used in competitions during Williams' ballet, So Gottlieb is a pain again. It's always Gottlieb. What's with those guys? Oh, man. I've helped a guy fix a black hole. Nightmare. Pain. Zach knows all about pain. Black holes. Pain.
    42:39
    And then if you want to get under the playfield, and you have to pull that out and... Yeah, not fun. Stupid failure. So the name of that video is under Just look under Dots and Loops I believe is your channel on YouTube And actually if you just search for How does a tilt work or something like that In pinball, it comes right up I highly recommend you watch the video Yes It was a ton of work A ton of work where I had to borrow A GoPro from some guy And a professional You know, TV camera camcorder thingy from another guy, and oh man. But I was very happy about how it turned out, I must say. And I agree with your one comment. The best tilt mechanism is the Williams like mid-90s era where it's like all one plastic thing that you have one screw and you can just move it in any direction to get it centered.
    43:39
    Alright, so we got ROMs, we got earplugs. So you said this is coming out, We're all excited Finally have those Those ROMs That everyone's been asking for Hopefully it'll quiet The pin side Thread down Everyone will be happy Probably not They'll probably just Probably not Like when is So and so coming out When is so and so coming out That'll be the next question Yeah Those will be the next questions But that's fine That's fine Well I think it's a good set The first set here I'm very happy about it And It's wonderful games And Very unfortunate When they're Disregarded for competition for smaller things inside all the magnificent things in there. And if this gives those games a little push in the right direction and make them more wanted for competition, then I'm happy to contribute to that.
    44:32
    When you did the original ROMs, the original modified ROMs, was it you that used to have a PDF that had all the stuff that was different? Almost like you could just print it out and put it on the game, I'm like, this is what's different. Yeah, in my madness for being, you know, perfect perfectionism and, you know, making it so easy for people to use this and make sure that the players are informed by it, I made these PDFs that took the most important things that you can write in four or five lines and explained it. But it's a good question. I haven't really thought about making those. Yeah, I was wondering if they, because you used to send them as files. Now these, like if you get them from Planetary Pinball, they're probably just going to send you the ROM. But if they have something on their site, because they have a lot of material on their site anyway, Planetary Pinball, they have full manuals, parts, catalogs. That would be cool if you had just the PDF. Because I'm lazy, I would love to be able to just print the PDF out and slap it on the back. Like, here, here's how it's different. Yeah. Is there a way besides the sticker that's going to be on the EPROMs To show that it's different? Like when you're putting it, powering up the machine? Why should it be a different version number? Yes, I've redesigned the startup screen When you power in the game I mean, for DMD games Good It has full information about the revision and stuff like that Okay, good, that's perfect That's the way it should be, I like that You were being Bruce Well, because people are going to ask. You know that. People are going to ask. So I'd rather get the question out. Oh, yeah. Those tournament types, they ask a lot of questions. Yeah, they're paying the asses.
    46:21
    Yeah, I have another example of how I'm totally mad and perfectionist about this. On Creature from the Black Lagoon, I took the effort to make it so that you can tap the buttons to get the score screen up in the track mode. Yes, thank you. I had to wait for that in competition. So you did that for the Creature? did you do it for T2 also? I haven't made T2 yet, Bruce. We talked about it a while ago. I know, but I'm saying, when you do do it on T2, add that also.
    46:52
    And Dr. Dredd and Dr. Who. Dr. Who, yeah. The whole line. We didn't know other features. We just made it so you can see the scores again. And also, maybe I shouldn't talk about Theosophmatic because that's not available now, but when it will come out, it will have so that if you disable buy-in, you won't have buy-in scores in the track mode or the status report. Of course! That's the way it should be. Yes, I agree. So, Ron. Yes, Bruce. Did you get a game?
    47:25
    Uh, yes, I got a game. A game? A game that Bruce doesn't approve of. God, no. One of Sauron will approve of my game. I got a Star Wars. Who? I am sorry, Tom.
    47:40
    Wow. We need a tiebreaker here. We need two against two, right? Two against two. Okay. Why don't you like it? What's wrong with it? Me? Yeah.
    47:51
    I'm ready. Pass it to me. I don't think it's Tom. See, you didn't come up with an answer quick enough. That means you're wrong. This is going to be grumpy old man territory. Oh, it's an action button. I don't like movie Movie stuff in games So That's a new one Okay I mean I like movie themes If they're done right But Movie clips And You're going into an asteroid field They'd be crazy to follow us Wouldn't they Yeah That's what I want to see They kind of get old quick Doesn't it It's just the polar opposite You know that Yeah It's just the polar opposite Because that's That's like my bag the original trilogy. Like, I'm quoting the lines as they're being delivered. Geek!
    48:39
    Geek. Yeah, okay, I'm a geek first. I'm fine with that. I can recite every line for all three movies. You want me to start? Actually, on a little more serious note, I have a little thing that I wish that they would have done. Okay. The thing about modes going from ball to ball is really, really dangerous. Really dangerous. Because you have this game where one shot is impossible. For instance, the Star Wars I've been playing a lot that we have had in the lounge until recently where it was sold. The ramp. The right ramp. Impossible. Impossible to hit. Impossible to make. So if you have a mode where that's the only shot it wants you to make to progress through the game and you have that hanging from ball one to ball three or even to game over, that sucks. I would argue that's more of a physical issue with the game. I'm just saying that rules that do not terminate on the end of the ball is really dangerous. I wish that, you know, one of the things I always liked about a game like Whirlwind and that era was that on the start of the ball, you got a little push forward on the status of the game. On every start of the ball, you know, like grid letters in the Adams family.
    49:54
    That's really clever. When I got to Whirlwind, I was like, wait, it gives me a free arrow every ball? I hate this. I've been trying to hack the ROM to remove it.
    50:05
    I think that's a very, very good idea. I think it's a nice idea, but I wish there was an option to turn it off. Yeah, there you go. I have an option. I'm getting half my arrows spotted for me instead of shooting for them. Now it just locks away all the time. I'm like, no, I want to shoot for these things. Do I get to make the problems with Star Wars? A war went should be on hot settings, at least in home play. Yes.
    50:30
    There's no set at all. It always spots no matter what you do. Yeah. The thing is, what you mentioned is actually one of the things I liked about Star Wars, the fact that you have to finish the modes. You can't just say, oh, I've started. Oh, I failed. Oh, well. I can still get to the wizard mode. I don't need to finish it.
    50:49
    Yeah. I know that's, I know for a lot of people, maybe that's not the thing. But I know. What if you start the wrong one? What if you're in competition and start the wrong one? Whoops. And you're really host? or two at a time.
    51:04
    It's kind of the fun of learning what not to pick with what, which I'm slowly doing. Sometimes I screw up. As far as I can see, what is it? The speeder mode is hard, and the other one's hard, too, where you have to hit the alternate ramps, but there's a timer. You have four seconds. You need three vamp combos for that mode. Damn, that's hard. So there's certain ones I wouldn't want to stack with other ones. I do wish there was like a some way of like spotting shots or something you know so like sometimes I'll just like I can't hit this one shot no matter what I do I'm just not hitting it you know yeah yeah that's another some not easy way but something just like okay just like give me the next shot you know progress me in the mode no matter what you know like the action button on Guardians of the Galaxy to just like give me a shot you're saying about the one shot like a game like high speed has compensation if you can't hit the side ramp so if the side ramp was unmakeable. I believe if you hit the saucer enough times, it will give you the awards. Gentlemen, I've just thought of something that has never been seen in pinball before. I just got an idea. What if you made a game where you could terminate a mode and then sacrifice all the points obtained in that mode?
    52:16
    So, you pick a mode and it goes wrong, you cannot progress through it, then you can abandon it and start another one. And you sacrifice the points. Even all the points you earned already in that mode you lose. Yeah, when you finish the mode, you get to hold the points, you get rid of the mode, and then you subtract. You could make it into a pot. You know, it's not applied to your score directly, it's applied to a pot. I mean, they have all this real estate on the display now that put a television in the game. So it would be easy to have a pot where you can see how you accumulate points, and then you can decide to go forward and try to collect it all, or you can abandon it if you run into trouble. The problem with ones like that is then, like, if all those points in your mode are the final shot, and someone goes nice on the way through, and then, like, finish drains, and they're like, wow, I just did all that work, and I got zero points, because they don't know, you know, all these points are still ready for them, you know, or something. They just see that they did work, and it was a waste. No, no, no, no. You can see, like, an end-to-end choice. We're talking modes that progress through ball-to-ball.
    53:21
    I mean, even, like, on ball three, like, you drain them, like, I just spent two balls. Oh, yeah, yeah. I see a lot of people complaining on Game of Thrones about that. Because it has a lot of modes where you're always building up the final value, and that's where all those eight points are. Or you play a multi-ball and you don't get the supers. So something multi-ball is like 50 million instead of 800 million.
    53:41
    You need to get all those. Those could be angry, too. But I think Deadpool has a thing where you can at least run away from some modes. Right, Ron? Run away? I think there's, like, in certain modes, you can hold the action button, and it will just exit the mode. Really? I know you can hold the action button to not go in a mode if you don't want to. I think maybe in quests, you can just... Really? With the button or something. I don't know. Yeah, I would have never... I hoped Ron would know, because he owns the game. Well, I know, but I would never, number one, know to even try that. Number two, I'd probably never quit out of modes, because I'd try to finish them. If you're stuck in an untimed mode, like one of the two quests, and then you have mech suit lit or something, you're just like, I want to have that. The game would have to tell me, and the games aren't always the best at telling you. Like, cancel mode if you want. Even if they said that, it would be in the LCD screen, which I don't look at.
    54:39
    That would be the problem. I have a Deadpool as well. I wasn't aware of that. There you go. So, Bruce, you were throwing Star Wars. You were going to bash Star Wars, so. Oh, easy. I'm going to mute the chat for a few minutes. Go ahead. I'm muted.
    54:53
    Okay. Terrible geometry for plunge. Plunge right off the bat. When you actually can hit the left, I mean, the right targets, and it most of the time will drain, like if it auto-plunges, 99% of the games, it will go up, hit the three targets, and go right out to the left lane.
    55:14
    99%, really, Bruce? 99% of the time. I dispute that percentage. Okay, dispute that percentage. It happens on a lot of games with that game. Okay, I have a lot of circuit finals in it. What? At the game at circuit finals last time, they would auto-plunge right to the outlay in half the time. Yep. Even at the stern circuit finals, they weren't able to think to address their game. But you said half the time. Bruce was saying 99% of the time. Well, people would play at the bar and they were like, that's it? But, you know, because they didn't realize that, oh, it's going to auto-plunge because they lost the ball so fast. So you didn't fix the game at your own bar, Bruce? Yes, because it's a terrible game. We put the double ball saver in that Dwight did for Ghostbusters. Problem solved. Okay, next. Flashers are terrible on that game. What? They're better than a lot of the other Dwight games, but Dwight has a problem with flashers. I swear to God. What flashers are you talking about? the game. There's a couple that go off during multi-ball, and you're like, holy crap. I just played it for hours. I had no issues whatsoever. I don't know if there were any flashers in the game at all. Well, I don't like them. It's not like winter is coming going on. No, no, it's not. No, I said that. I said it's not as bad as his other games, but it's still bad. I don't know why he has this affliction with flashers and blinding people. See, I think that's a positive. I like those in the games. No, I don't. I always throw that in Game of Thrones, especially if you're playing in a dark room when I have my Game of Thrones. Oh, yeah. Like when a lightsaber duel is ready, all the lights go down, and it makes it very clear that, yeah, you're supposed to hit this ramp here to start this. Lightsaber mode. Total cock block. Wow.
    56:51
    What's wrong with that? Everyone hates that. Oh, it's terrible. You were swearing at it. I know, but I was swearing at myself more for failing. Like I said, before I was streaming it, I must have done like five successful lightsabers in a row without dreaming. I'm in for a My complaint on that is It's a mode where it has a timer And if you drain You don't get out of the mode You get back in and it resets the timer It resets the mode No matter if you're trying to escape from the mode Or you're trying to complete the mode Either way you get screwed Yes I'm like If you're going to get multiple times out Then make it just time out You know My complaint about that mode Blue and red GAA general illumination What's that?
    57:33
    It's terrible It does look bad. Really? I didn't think it... Well, this is you, Ron. You loved the game so much you bought it. Stupid. And you enjoyed it. Stupid. So that's a problem with you. The adrenaline rush I get playing that game is more than most other games I have. Plain and simple. I'd rather play a Deadpool and a... And I love the theme. I love Deadpool, too. It's a different kind of experience. No, if you put Deadpool and you put Star Wars next to each other, most pinball players, let's say it the proper way, will go to Deadpool. Most regular non-pinball players who are going for location play will go to Star Wars. Most non-pinball players who are going to a location to play pinball. I got you. Yes. Yes, like if you're barcading, that kind of stuff. Okay. They see Star Wars, they go, ooh, and they hear the theme music and that kind of stuff. It stinks.
    58:28
    It stinks. But how is the game out of the box? How did it go? No problems? There was one issue which I didn't notice until we were on stream. Okay, what was that? Actually, I didn't notice it. Zach noticed it. Zach noticed it, of course. Of course, because he's Zach. Well, the funny thing is I mentioned, which was one of the things that the issue was causing without knowing the cause of the issue. At the beginning of the stream, I was like, everything's been working great, except when I do hyperspace multiball, like it locks the ball, and then I hit it with the other ball and it doesn't give me, it doesn't start. I think that's weird. I'm doing something wrong. I just figured I was doing something wrong or I had to hit it hard enough to knock it out of the area. I thought maybe that was it. So I literally play one game and in the chat, Zach's there, your left loop gate and spinner are reversed. Like when you're hitting the spinner, it's doing the left loop gate. When you're hitting the left loop gate, it's doing the spinner. I've seen that as well on the game.
    59:28
    So, you know, it became a tech stream, and I'm thinking, like, man, I hope they just swapped the connectors, because if they did, that would be easy. And that's what they did. They just put the wrong connectors, swapped them, and as soon as they did that, it's like first hyperspace. Like, all you had to do was hit the gate, and it's like, boom, it started. It's like, oh, well, there you go. Oh, when I hit the spinner, it actually makes the spinner sound now. That's cool. Did you buy this new one boxed, Ron? Oh, yes. Okay. I didn't know if you got to use, possibly, you know. I always love when you buy the game secondhand and there's factory errors in it still. Yes, because people didn't realize. My Game of Thrones I got and some of the RGB LEDs were cross-wired, so they were doing the wrong color on the mode shots. I'm just like, you never noticed this?
    60:13
    Hey, I never noticed that. Fail. You didn't have the time. But you're happy though, Ron. That's a great thing. I'm very happy. That's good. That's great. That's what we like to see. My dad will probably be coming over today, and I'm sure he'll hate it. I love your dad. There's the tiebreaker. We got a tiebreaker.
    60:32
    Oh, my dad? Okay. I'll ask him when he comes over. Do you like Star Wars or no? No, it's terrible. I don't get it. I drain immediately. He'll hate it because the button, moving stuff around, all the shit you have to know. Oh, he would hate that with a passion.
    60:46
    If we ask Ron's dad, we have to ask my dad, too, and he likes Star Wars. Hey! And they're both named Ron. So there you go. They can't take other out Isn't it funny that pinball people spend so much time Debating if a game is good or not Especially when they're wrong Like Bruce I'm totally right You're right about your opinion What games do you guys like Or dislike That everybody else has the opposite opinion about Oh well Star Wars would be mine Most people don't like Star Wars Zach Isaac. Sick. Well, Zack is not a typical. I'm just saying that Bob likes it. Majority. No, Zack is not the majority. So, I would say Star Wars is mine that I like. What do I not like that lots of people like? That's a good one. Twilight Zone. Yeah, Twilight Zone. What about Bruce? What was that? I hate Adam's family. I hate Twilight Zone. You can throw them away. And what do you like that everybody else is throwing under?
    61:53
    Lord of the Rings. No. You know, in tournament, they hate Lord of the Rings. Yeah, but most people love that game. I love it in tournaments. How about Ready, what's the other one? Lights, Camera, Action. It's great. Yeah, I don't think you're going to go up to most people and they're going to be like, oh, yeah, Lights, Camera, Action is the shit. Yeah. I don't think so. It's one of the few Gottliebs that actually has a good rule set. Really? I don't know about that what about your sec?
    62:24
    uh I mean the thing that I like that no one else does is the majority of my collection although I'm staring right at Genie right now everyone hates Genie fucking Genie I love Genie is four pinball machines combined into one box for some reason more pinball more bad pinball I love wide bodies, I love super wide bodies I love mini playfields, upper playfields. It's got all of it. Yeah, when Eric Minier said, like, no more wide bodies, you know, he cried. Yep. Well, he didn't say that, but, yeah. Yeah. He said it's up to the designer, and so you know Lawler's not doing any. So Eric is Zach's only hope for wide body pinball. I really, really, really, really, really like Circus Voltaire. Hmm? I like it. I think it's a fun game. You do? I like it. I think it gets really grindy eventually. It does get grindy. It does at the end. Everybody says, oh, that game is pretty, and it's rare, so I want it, but no one likes it. I don't mind the juggler. The juggler's fine. I like the texture good.
    63:31
    That game gets a lot more hate than I would expect. Yeah. I don't mind it. I do well on it, too. I like it that way. It's got the best video mode ever. It does. Simon.
    63:43
    Well, it has two video modes. Well, the other mode's not that good, but I love the Simon Says video mode. It's just... And I'm just thinking, like, I could go, like... I think I went, like, 15 deep on it one time in a tournament. Yeah. And just got, like, tons of points. People are just like, what the hell are you doing? They said, are you a machine? Are you human? I'm Zach. Just two halves of the DMD just blinking back and forth. To me, Circus Voltaire is just totally cool, and I really like that game. A game I don't like that gets a lot of love elsewhere. I used to really hate Star Trek Next Generation, but that has grown on me a bit. That's grown on me a little now. But the game I really hate is Black Knight 2000. Yeah.
    64:29
    No. Apart from the music, except singing. I can play that game forever. So apart from the music, except singing. So do you like or dislike the singing? Dislike. Dislike the singing. You've got the power. I would say the singing. You got the bite. I want more demo games with choirs in them. Yeah.
    64:50
    Yeah. At 4,000 kilohertz. Yeah, you will. I think that new Bible game that Deidre's doing may have the choir music. That would make sense. That has to be a game changer.
    65:02
    And then they put out a vinyl record with half an hour choir on each side. The hymns of all of our songs. I mean, Black Knight 2000's got cool off the play field, killer music, greatest multi-ball intro sequence ever. And he looks like, bleh. Well, the art's terrible. Black Knight is okay. It's no Black Knight original. That's for sure. No, it's not a Black Knight original, but I think they did a good homage to it. Oh, yeah. You got the power. You got the fight.
    65:35
    Speaking of games, Bruce. Yes. Games. Well, hold on. Hold on. we didn't talk about the other game that we opened up this week. Oh, God. I love that. Oh, this is the Bruce Bashes segment. Yes, this is the Bruce Basharama segment.
    65:55
    With his favorite pinball company. Yeah. So, Bruce, you got your Rick and Morty. I did. And this is a later run one with all of the geometry fixes to it. Yes, 239 we are numbered. Okay. Okay, so... We're going to go to positive first. We got the machine, unboxed it very nicely. Zach looks at it originally and goes, why is the top bubbled? You know how usually a box... The top of the box. The top of the box is bubbled. Bowled. There's like bowed upwards like three inches. And he's like, that doesn't look right. And I'm like, I think that's right. And he goes, I don't know. And then we cut the box open and we realized that they added cardboard to protect the topper. Yeah, the topper is so tall it doesn't actually fit in the shipping box. Yes.
    66:41
    And it looks easily breakable. I mean, it looks like shallow, almost playfield plastic. It's just like two single sheets of playfield plastic. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it is. But they packed it well. It was packed great. I will give them no problems with the artwork or anything like that. So, first thing we do, we set it up, put the legs on, everything like that, power it up, and it doesn't boot. Where's the positive part? You're starting with negative already. Well, no, it was nice artwork and no damage and placeholder. So you're happy for the shipping company and when they passed it? And their initial build quality. The initial looking at it build quality. Looking at it build quality. Okay. Yeah, like no, you know, damage to the cabinet. Okay.
    67:29
    So it doesn't boot. And I had to look back at an old thread on Facebook where connectors pull out. This guy who did this was like game 120 or 130 had this problem, where if you fold the head down, the connector actually pulls off. And this is the connector for the power to the entire driver board system. Yes, the entire driver board system. And it didn't like disappear and just like hanging off like you could see it. Zach, how far was it stuck in the harness? It was about three inches down one of the wire management tubes. Oh, in the tube. In the tube. We spent 20 minutes looking for it before I finally just started trying the entire tube open and digging around in there and found it and pulled it all the way back out again. Wow. So it must have moved like eight inches away from its board into this tube. And bent the pins on the board and everything like that because it pulled away. And this is a known problem. This was stated five months ago on a Facebook thread. Okay. So put that on. Power it up. we looked down at the flippers. Zach's like, they're not aligned. No. Well, that's an open question. No, no, no. They weren't aligned. They weren't even left to right aligned. Left to... Yeah, one of them was a bit higher than the right. First, right off the bat. And then the weird thing is, the right one was aligned to the guide, but then there are alignment holes, which are much lower than the guide.
    68:58
    Probably to get that shot on the left there. Okay. Which way it's supposed to be. One above the guide, one equal to the guide.
    69:10
    Next gen, the alignment holes are actually slightly below. They're not parallel. Yes. But they should be the same. Would you agree with that? Oh, yes. Oh, yeah, they should be the same. And they're not. Deep fruit, our flippers should be aligned. It's not an Atari game, is it?
    69:27
    The exact go underneath it to adjust the flippers. Now, we all know at New William Mechs that are bought from every place, you only need a 3-H wrench. 3-H wrench, yeah. No. Spooky still has the old style. Use the Allen on one side. It's actually better. It's not better. Yeah, it is. That's their older design. It's actually better. I've had issues with the other one just not tightening correctly on the shaft. I've never had an issue. I have. And I've had no issues with the older style. I actually prefer it. Chime in, please. Did that thing ever tighten up fully?
    70:04
    I mean, it was a pain. You can't align the flipper while the Allen wrench is in it. Exactly. So you have to, like, align it, hope it's tight, move it, put the Allen wrench in, tighten down, take the Allen wrench out, put it back. Okay, did I do good? Yeah.
    70:20
    A lot of switches that were misadjusted. Pop bumpers. Pop bumper had almost a quarter inch of gap. Yeah, it was dead almost. I was surprised it even worked. how big the gap was on the Switch. Slingshot misadjusted. We're on code month 9 28 2020. We played our third game, Zach, and what happened?
    70:43
    It locked up in one of the modes completely. They're still working on the code, Bruce. Yeah, exactly, and it keeps on locking up in this one mode, which is the rollercoaster one.
    70:55
    So, in the contest of how much trouble Ron has had with this annihilation game and how much trouble you have had with your multi-games. Who's the winner?
    71:07
    Ron's still ahead of me. I haven't had any software issues. It sounds like you've got software issues. You had cables and everything else. Yeah, all my stuff has been physical issues. Which I like that he can fix them.
    71:22
    At least they didn't use a glue gun. Oh, no hot glue? Oh, my God. There's maybe like one or two strands.
    71:31
    Despite your debuggles, and, of course, it's fair to amuse ourselves here, I have to pay mad respect to Spooky Pinball and Charlie Emery. Mad respect. It is a huge achievement that he has built a company to... Oh, I agree with you on that part, but where is the quality control still? That's what I'm going to go with. Guess what? If you want to be respected, the respect should go all the way around. The thing with the connectors that pull out Every person I've seen on the chat Has been saying worse and worse I've done a lot of adjustments now I'm having problems with this I'm also wondering Because on the thing about the connectors that pull out When you take the head down That's a matter of tightening it Tightening it in the game with some foam And some strips Right?
    72:19
    You just do that I agree So it will never happen I know, but think about it. If it wasn't me or Zach or somebody had... Oh, they'd be screwed. Finding a connector eight inches down the tube. Yeah, exactly, or four inches. They'd be screwed. Yeah. They'd be getting you over to their house to look at. Yeah, exactly. And that's the problem. You know, the problem's been out and addressed and said. And why is it still happening? And why are people still complaining about it? Like, this week, another one of our local guys got a Rick and Morty. He was happy with the quality, happy with the other stuff. And the first words out of the mouth were, he said he had to do a lot of adjustments. And then he got the shaker motor on his. I did not get a shaker motor because I assumed already that spookies are going to vibrate like crazy with the speaker system. So it's already like a shaker motor already. Which they do. Way to adjust, like, every single output on the sound to make it even sound vaguely. Vaguely. He actually has a shaker motor, and he says as soon as the shaker motor hits, it resets the game. Of course. Disconnects the shaker motor or disables it? You know what I think, Bruce, at this point? I think Spooky listens to the podcast and they saw the game was for you and they're like, let's screw with this game. I want to hear him go off because they just find it so entertaining. That's fine by me, but does it make them look good? No, of course not. I'm just saying, yes, we can give – Charlie's done a great job. He's done an incredible job of getting a company to where it's at.
    73:50
    Definitely. He has to get the quality issues that are known fixed. Can I ask you something? Yeah. You say switches are misaligned or do you mean they do not register? Barely. Barely. I mean, a ball would land on the pop bumper and just sit there and slowly roll off. It'd sit there and roll off. How is that even possible on brand new switches? Thank you. Thank you. That's what we're saying. I'm really mystified. They are attached to the playfield with that bracket the same way that... You would think you'd touch every switch with a ball. Although, to be fair, Stern obviously let a Star Wars go out with two switches that were reversed, where they literally sit there with the playfield and actuate every switch and look at it to see if it's the right one, yet somehow it was still wrong. That will happen.
    74:38
    And I'm not even going to say it's happened many times. I've seen it on my Star Trek was the same way. I think the quality control has to be a little better getting out of the box. Like, you're going to tell me that one guy that has the Rick and Morty from this week, they didn't test the shaker motor?
    74:59
    How's your play feel, though? It's probably great. Oh, it's great. It looks great, and it plays. I will say, everyone was complaining about the earlier ones. You couldn't make the shots. The one outer left loop is hard. It's makeable. I think the game's a lot of fun. And that spinner loop is great now. Oh, God. Everyone's been playing with that initially. You couldn't loop it, and now it's just like, bam. Oh, it's a machine.
    75:22
    Now, you have to have the machine definitely, as they state in their notes, 6.5 degrees. You do. Because if you go higher, you have issues with the shots. And if you go lower, you have issues with the shots also. I like the laugh there. 6.5. Really? So slow. It's not. It's not? Okay. No. Not exactly. Zach, is that the same flow? I find sometimes it's a bit floaty when the ball is. It's a little floaty. It's tough, but, like, you hit that pop or any flips or any rebounds, like, the game is going fast. Fast. It's like TNA, though, you know? Yeah. Yes. Like, you go in the scoop, it shoots it back at you at maximum speed. And we do have one other issue. We don know if it an issue with the knee lock When you get close to hitting or you touch one of the targets the target actually is reacting like four or five times like it's trying to pop up, but it's already up.
    76:20
    So that's kind of a weird thing also. That could be a sense switch that is reversed. I've seen that on games as well. Yeah, possibly. So when that target is up, the game thing gets down. When the target is down, the game thing gets up. I was almost wondering, we might be misdiagnosing that. Because I noticed one time, it was during that whole bunch, and then I saw, like, the ship move.
    76:40
    The ship? So I'm like, I don't know if the ship controlled itself. You know, like, the AFM ship, does it wobble the ship with the solenoid? I don't know. And I'm wondering if that's the case. Maybe the ship's solenoid is firing, and we're just seeing the balls hop and stuff from that, potentially? Maybe, I don't know. We need to do more. Well, I want to upgrade the code. I'm hoping that upgrading the code to the newest version, which is, I think, 10-19-2020, we'll get rid of. Wait a minute. You haven't updated it yet? No, we didn't have a flash drive. I forgot my flash drive. Oh, well, come on. But it shipped. Wait a second. It shipped with a code that possibly could have an issue or it could be something else. It probably shipped right around when the new code came out, if not before, though. It was built on the – it was ready for shipment on the 6th, so it was before the other ones. There was a 1010 code and then a 1019. So it was with the newest code when it shipped. Yep. So I'm not, you know. You want to hear my spooky story? Yeah, let's hear your great TNA. I love TNA. TNA's great. I have a new name for it, though.
    77:43
    Satan? Christine. Oh, Christine. Anyone ever see Christine? Yes, it's a great, it's a great. I think it starts off with my games in the factory, and it's a slightly different shade of purple than all the other TNAs. for no reason, and then the guy's working on it, and the play field slams down on his hand by itself. They have to clear the blood out of the machine and stuff, and then it gets shipped to me.
    78:09
    And now it's possessed. It's possessed. It only plays good with other people. It doesn't play good with you. The reason I say that is because, like, okay, so I got the Star Wars in the box upstairs, so I've got to move all the stuff around to get it down there. So I'm going to bring TNA upstairs to the for sale position. Ooh, bye-bye TNA. All right, there's a cut. Go, baby, go. Okay, you're going to get a TNA that has been just tweaked to perfection at this point. But, okay, so I put the head down, strap the head down, take the back legs off, put the back of the game down, and I hear clunk. Like, what the fuck? And as soon as I hear that, I know what it is. Back glass fell out. it fell out like an inch so it didn't damage anything but it's like I know I locked the back glass in place so I'm pissed so like so I gotta take the straps off, lift the back box up you know get the back glass and so then I double check like yep it's locked so I unlock it, put the back glass in, lock it again and then I just push up on the back glass and the cam is so far up it doesn't it's not holding it Like, you can lift it up enough where it just comes out. It's like, oh, son of a bitch. Okay, I'll bend the cam. I'll take the lock out and bend the cam down so it works right. It's like, okay, they didn't use regular screws. They got the Torx security bits in there. No problem. They use all Williams parts, so I got my Williams Torx security bit, you know, tools with me. It doesn't fit. They're too big. T27. The screws are smaller than the Williams ones. Oh. Yes. So my Williams didn't work. And you was angry. Yes, I was even more angry. You was angry. And what now? It's like, what now? It's like everything, everything I do on this game, it's like, oh. So I had enough room to actually get the pliers in there, and I kind of counterbalanced, and I was able to bend the cam down enough where now the backrest doesn't fall off.
    80:14
    So, Zach, you buying a TNA? It's just like every... I hear there's a cheap discount. Yeah, you want a TNA? Uh, no. Oh. I might take a Rick and Morty, though. Oh. I don't think it's on my to the point where I'm going to pay full price for it, but, like, I'm liking it so far. Wow.
    80:31
    Spooky. I like it so. Two for two. Two for two? Exactly. I have two games. I will say, this is the first game I'd ever even flipped before buying besides Family Guy. That was the first, first one. All right. And were you disappointed? With Family Guy in the beginning? No, I wasn't, because I love the humor of Family Guy. It's actually, it made me laugh every time I played it. Yeah, that's right. I made you laugh all the time, Bruce. Yes, you did. But with Rick and Morty, the comments that come out and everything, oh, it's just. Well, let me guess. It's cranked up to full swear, like. Oh, of course. Of course. Oh, and then another issue we have with it. Oh, God. I promise your TNA does. What? Flipper hold power. Oh, yeah. The TNA does the weird thing where the flipper's up and a ball comes down and hits it, and it kind of kills it in a weird way. It has a scoop that is aimed directly at the flipper at high speed, and it can't hold the flipper up. You got it. They don't have EOS switches. That's the other thing. Well, this one does have EOS switches. Oh, it does? Does the TNA not have EOS? I don't... God damn it. I didn't think it did. I thought I looked at that, and that was when I was like, hey, it doesn't have EOS switches. That's kind of weird. I really wish they'd stopped using the single winding coils. Yes. Come on. Yeah. We played like two games and ours were like a touch. Yeah. Their way. I know you have a Liam's mech. Use the three wires. Yep. Yeah.
    81:56
    Definitely. Well, there was no TNA code out and I put it on there right before I tore it down. I played a few games. And? Oh, it's fine. They made an option so you can put these scores on the LCD.
    82:08
    Okay. What scores? Streams. Oh, LCD. Streams. I mean, in my heart of hearts, I would have preferred, like, a TNA. And I know this is impossible, but, like, the original prototype was. Where it's, like, a full back glass with the old numeric displays. Yeah. Like, to really look old school. So it just had no LCD at all, visually, right? Yeah, yeah. No LCD. It literally just had, like, a regular, like, I think it was, might even be, like, a Williams back box of just, like, regular scores. I think you were using Bally displays. Yeah, with something like that. All right.
    82:39
    There's also new Deadpool code. Yes. So, yeah, so .93 for code. No, no, no, no. I thought it was one point something. It's not at .9. Oh, that's right. I'm thinking of the new... It's 104. Yeah. Avengers is 93. It's like, damn, if the game is that old and it's still a .9, there's a problem. Avengers is... I'm sorry. Avengers is moving along with now the fix for the LE lock issues. Need to put those again now and see how that's improved.
    83:12
    Yeah, I know. I can't wait to play it. Ron, we need to get you out here so you can actually play all these new games. Yeah, Ron.
    83:19
    Yeah, schedule me or something. Because we have Avengers. Oh, our schedules are so packed. We have Rick and Morty. And we have Guns N' Roses out here in Rochester.
    83:32
    And another game. What else? My game. Your game. Your new game. Yeah. Is it done yet? Is the art on it yet? Do we have a title? Nope, nope, nope, nope. Cut the card. Flip a flop. Was that Dennis Creasel's name? I like that. Yeah, flip a flop. I like cut the card.
    83:53
    High or low? With the card sharks. You can take that. I like that. Wasn't that already used? I don't know if it's a TV show. Yes, card sharks. You might get sued.
    84:06
    The trademark's gone. I checked it. I'm sure you did, Bruce. Yes, I was actually this week checking all trademarks. All of them in the world. IFPA and Stern are way up on their trademarks. They have everything accounted for. Oh. And so does Jersey Jack Pinball, and the new Jersey Jack Pinball has a different trademark. So there's a lot of companies that, if you type in pinball, There's a new Jersey Jack? Oh, with the new owners. Oh, okay. Trademarks got to change with that. So, yes, so everyone's keeping up with their trademarks, but some. Companies are not.
    84:44
    Yes, and that's all. I'll leave it at that. Deeper it is. They're not or they are? They are. Okay. So who here saw Kelts?
    84:56
    Oh, me. I didn't. You didn't see Kelts? Kelts is a game by Haggis out of Australia. Well, Bruce is required to get this game eventually because it has different clans in it, and one of them is called Bruce. Aye. The Bruce Clan. Aye, lasties. Brucey. Yes, sir. Before we went on the air, I think it was Zach who said, if you pick the Bruce Clan, the volume of your game goes up by 25%. It should. I'm going to recommend that to the boys. I think that's, yeah, that makes perfect sense. It does. And pinball companies mess up his game on purpose before mailing it out? Yeah. Yes, of course. We know that. We know that now. That's why I kind of like CERN, because it's mass-produced, so, you know, it's not being customized for me. Yeah, they don't know it's yours. Exactly. But Spooky's like, oh, that's Bruce Nightingale's game. 239, mother... Yeah, let's take the power connector out, shove it right into the wire, yeah, shove it down there deep. Bruce has seven pseudonyms for when he ordered parts and games and stuff like that. That's what you need. You need pseudonyms, Bruce. I do. We were talking about Sokelts. Yes. They screened that. I like it. Yeah, I like the art. I love the art. I think the screen is really good. The screen, man. The display. Awesome work. It is awesome. Awesome work. It's going to be the deepest single-level play game ever. Yeah, that's what I hear. It's like the deepest single-level play game ever. That's an amazing tagline, isn't it? Yeah, I know. Amazing tagline. I like that tagline. If you had ramps on it, it's now just a normal game. But if you have a single-level, it's the best single-level game ever. The cheapest single-level game ever with the hardest play field around. Yes. Yeah, a completely new way of making that. The reverse print on the backside of a clear sheet and then attach that to the wood or something like that. Yep. So bash it with a hammer. It will last that year. Who would have thought? Will we see one soon in the U.S.? Or are all these orders going to Australia? How much did it cost the shipping aim over?
    87:08
    That's a good question. That's the thing I had to worry about. We might have to ask them when we get them on. And there might be a deal where they're just going to wait until they get certain amount so they can get them all out. That's the part that really sucks about not having shows because that's when I would have got to play it. And I just don't get to play it unless someone I know buys one. Dammit, Jim. But I think it would be a great game to play. I think it sounds really good. Will I ever get to play one for a while? I don't know. That's the shame about it, you know. I mean, I'll be half-surprised if I ever play one, to be honest. Well, I think you'll play one in a show. I think maybe if I go to, like, Texas or something. Yeah, yeah. If you go to Texas, yeah. If I was trapped in the Middle East, whatever. Maybe Papa. Replay effects. I could see. I could see them doing that. Maybe one of the distributors like Pinball Star. I don't know who it's going to be a distributor from. I think they only have one distributor right now. It's not for the U.S., so I don't know. We'll have to get more information, but I hope a distributor will be in the U.S. that does travel to shows, so it will go out. I think it's way better than, what was the game, Heist? We had the Multimorphic. Yeah, Multimorphic. I've never played either, so I cannot make an opinion. Well, I'm looking wise on the video. I think, you know, I think this game, the Celts, is a great first effort.
    88:37
    And if they can do this on their first game, I think, you know, if I compare Spooky, first game with the America's Most Haunted, the Celts, I think it's night and day. I'm just, like, blown away. I didn't mind America's Most Haunted. Yeah, that wasn't bad. That wasn't bad. And I played it. If you just compare, like, the first game for every manufacturer. Yeah, I thought it played okay. I mean, it had some of their trademarks they would use later. The scoop that kicks it out obscenely fast. Yes. That would have been the craziest one. That was like right in your face. It would just come to you. It had a cool, that one, almost like a Deadpool shot, where you hit that little loop on the right and it would come across, but it would go to like a ramp. Yeah. I mean, the display effects weren't great, and the voice work, I think, was. The worst part was the jump ramp. The jump ramp. You never had enough strength to get there. Really? I never had a problem with that ever. I never had a problem. Todd's it seemed like we did. Okay. Todd's the only one I've played, and I never had a problem with the jump ramp. Oh, really? I seem like I did. Have you played one of those, Thorin? I played America's Most Haunted at the Replay FX when I was there, and the prototype Multimorphic also. But spooky games are very, very rare here. Yeah, of course. I played the Domino's once at a show, the big show in Holland. Yeah. The first pinball open. Yep. And then TNA, there was one local here. I will say one thing that's funny about Rick and Morty. There's a staged ball. Yeah. So if you get it in the upper left-hand side, you know, if you take that outer left loop, or if you go all the way around the right orbit and you get it into the hole up top, that staged ball comes out so fast.
    90:23
    It just almost drains. You're not expecting it to come out that fast. that just like kicks out, boom, done. But is that a good design?
    90:31
    I guess they didn't want to wait. It's a novelty, but... I guess they didn't want to wait to go through the whole subway system. Wait. I can't imagine... No, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. It's not advertised. I mean, it comes as a surprise, which is a novelty. Oh, it's a surprise. But it also drains the balls on people, and then they say, ugh, what is this? I got to say, like, when you compare to almost all Stern games, you know, every kick-out is perceived about a second-long flasher effect and a sound, you know. And, like, it gets a bit much sometimes. I know where the ball is. It just went in that same hole. Just give me the ball back. Yeah, this is coming from a different hole. This is one that's, like, teleporting, and it's super fast, and if you don't react, you will drain instantly. There's none. You mean, oh, is that the one where you hit it up top, and then it just appears in your left-hand lane? In the left-hand, the lower left, right in the left. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, whoa, holy crap! I'm a bit different on that because kick-outs, I mean, every time the game holds the ball, it really wants you to look at the display or something like that. Yes. And if the game doesn't advertise the eject properly, the same way each time with the same timing each time, I'm just I'm off. I don't want to play this anymore. I'm totally picky about that. Totally picky. I'd like a little knowledge, acknowledgement of, hey, or just like a flasher. That's all. Just a two second attract my eye back to the play field. This is just like... I mean, or really just give me a ball save. Yeah, exactly.
    91:57
    If it just rolled over one switch and I didn't hit a flipper or, you know, it's just boom. I say white water. White water. Every pinball designer out there, take notice. Do it like white water. Really? Yeah. Really? No, that's the kick out. That's not the goal. No, that's the water. That's the water going over.
    92:20
    What's the sound effect that's used? Is it from Cyclone? or Comet or one of those that it makes the sound when it's at the top. At the top. You know, when it goes, and then it gives you the ball, the upper flipper. Oh, I think so. It's either from Cyclone or Comet. I don't remember which one. I think it's Comet, if I remember correctly. Is there someone shouting it at their... I try to forget playing Comet. Yes, look like. The worst is Ghostbusters. Not only is it so near the flipper or to the right side, But when you get this River of slime Or what is it It ejects in the middle Of the DMD sequence I mean Are you fucking kidding me It's like kicking my nuts So hard I just like I'm not saying you anymore Oh my If I'm not mistaken The flasher That is supposed to Say okay Now the ball is ejected It's way down in the out lane Come on Yeah I know Come on Oh please He has issues With Ghostbusters Yeah You probably shit in line for that one. Yeah, God.
    93:26
    Yeah, I haven't even heard anyone make that complaint because they're too busy with every other complaint. Yeah, exactly. You're getting way too nitpicky, Soren. You're down in like number 10 or 12. You're actually starting the river of slime. I forgot that was a feature. Yeah, you don't start it. But if the ball enters the scoop down there, that's what starts on the DMV. And the first time I was looking up, oh, it was me to, you know, tell me what I've got. and then in the middle of that sequence, not at the end, in the middle, the ball kicks out right between the flavors. Thank you. There you go. Game over. Have a nice day. See you later. Bye. You know what, Bruce? What? I wonder if Ghostbusters is featured in the new Stern book. I hope so because, oh, that's right. It's going to cost way too much to get that book now. Does anyone remember the Stern book? It was supposed to be the 30 years of Stern. Yes, we're already up to 35 now. That's the 47. Yeah, 2016, I think. It was supposed to be 86 to 2016, the 30 years of Stern. And they had a Kickstarter with Stern's support, or at least they advertised these people. And they've taken a particularly long time to come up with this book. Yeah. But it's ready. It's ready. After four years, Bruce, it's ready. It's ready for delivery to you. Okay, great. So when am I going to get my first one? Well, you're in Australia, right? No, I'm not in Australia. I'm in the United States. I'm actually privileged. I have everything ID'd here. Wow. Okay, pretend you're Marty from the Final Round podcast. Okay, yes. He was an actual Kickstarter backer. You know how much he's going to have to pay?
    95:04
    $50. $125. What? That's U.S. That's not even Australian. Australian is almost $200. Just to ship. To ship the bus. To ship. A four-pound book. So he complained about it to the people.
    95:22
    And they said, well... How much was it? Well, the original book... No, no, no, the shipping. $125. And somebody found... This is a pin-side thread also. They had, like, the original chart where, like, when they had the Kickstarter, and it says what the shipping would be to everywhere. It even had Australia on there. Yep. They had, like, $13, $20, whatever. Well, they're saying it went from two pounds to four pounds. And, you know, shipping prices change and COVID and blah, blah, blah. And it's going to cost this much now. Which is bullshit. They should honor the original price because guess what? That's what they sold it as. Well, that's just an estimated shipping prices. Then they're fine. I get a feeling they didn't select Australia, but the moon. Yeah. And they applied for the price.
    96:11
    So then they commented, and that's the excuse they came back with. well, we got so much more stuff in this book, and it's now four pounds compared to two pounds. I said, don't they have a media mail going international?
    96:23
    Since it is a book. Yeah, it's... That's just another... It's another kick in the balls to anyone who... Who wants to get kick-started? Yeah. Just pull yourself out and get ready to get kicked out of nuts. People who gave money, they'd be like, I'm ready to tell them, just fuck it, don't even bother sending it to me. I don't care anymore. I don't even want it now. I'm not paying the shipping. Screw you. The Australians just all send it to Ron because they know they'll see the next pinball show. Yeah, exactly. There you go. Can you change it to a roussac? Yeah. A roussac. I got to get myself a roussac. Where's my roussac? I never got a roussac. Neither did I.
    97:02
    But, yes, that's just terrible. Bruce, are you ready? For what? Face off. Face off? Who am I facing off against? Me. We always do. Oh, man. So face-off, for those who haven't heard this game in a while, because we haven't done it in a while, because it requires a guest to be the judge, what we used to do, we would pick a particular year, and we'd each get a manufacturer. We'd pick a manufacturer or get chosen a manufacturer. I think we did it randomly. And then we would have to pick games going against each other. We have to sell our games to the judge.
    97:38
    And I figure for this particular game, we used to do two out of three so it would behoove the judge to give us each one so you know we've got a climactic third one but not necessarily wow you said climactic yes not climax you idiot oh darn so I was calculating we need at least six games to choose from well we have Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Avengers Guns N' Roses Rick and Morty Hot Wheels and Heavy Metal Heavy Metal? oh Heavy Metal what about Kelts? Kelts isn't out yet Game Zero was revealed but I don't think it's shipping yet is Heavy Metal really out yet? well I think it'd be better as a like a joke pick whoever gets stuck with it is guaranteed to lose that's like fucking now one other possibility you could do Guns N' Roses the standard edition versus the LE with a whole different play field that plays really differently. Or, like, people have been talking a ton about Avengers, you know, Pro versus Premium, all these giant differences. Yeah. So maybe we should put two versions from the games in if they have a big difference like that to give more choices. That's an idea. Okay, we'll do that, because probably no one wants to pick Heavy Metal, because that won't... What are you going to say? It's a proven play field, being that it has been used for Spider-Man Home Edition, Star Wars Home Edition, et cetera, et cetera. Ron wins. There you go. You get this one. See, it's a proven play field. So now we've got to figure out who goes first.
    99:21
    So think of a number between 1 and 20. Okay, I got it. I have a number, too. All right, what's your number, Ron? Two.
    99:30
    Seven. Seven, as always, my birthday. The number was four. Ron wins. You both got right in there, though. If only Bruce had chosen six, we've been really screwed. Yeah.
    99:43
    So I get to choose. First game, I choose Guns N' Roses L.E., the pinball experience of a lifetime. I give you Guns N' Roses, one of the greatest bands of all time, and their exciting new pinball machine featuring exciting new technology, a true world under glass. an incredible sound and light show unequal by any current or past pinball machine. The new innovative, what do they call it, the rails? Hot Rails. The new and better innovative Hot Rails, giving you a lighting experience like no other. Feel like you're part of the show with amazing constant multi-ball action for you. Listen to hot Guns N' Roses tracks from all of their albums, including all the ones that are usually censored but there will be an uncensored mode where you can hear all the F-bombs in their glory you can be walked through by three members of Guns N' Roses you can see all the iconic the slash hat, the actual skeleton, incredible art incredible gameplay you will play through the songs you will try to get to the end of the game which will be hard because there's like 20 something songs, there's a lot of songs, but it just you will never, you will never get through this game. It's so deep. It's so incredible. The light and sound show is beyond reproach. And any other pinball has not even come close to this, even though I've never played it. I'm sure it's great. I rest my case.
    101:17
    So now I get to pick a game, huh? Yep. What are you going to pick to go against the greatest pinball machine ever made?
    101:24
    I'm going to go Guns N' Roses FC! You get the same game without the slugginess of the locks and the upper play field crap, you get a better, faster game at cheaper to price, which we all love in pinball. You might get a little less light. Who cares about that? You don't want to be blinded. You want to have the good stuff. You want to have a cheap game so I can buy another game later on. So you're getting the same experience without the extra cost. $3,000 towards another game, or I'll get a game that's always going to be playing and locking and just, like, boring. I want speed in my games. And as Ron will always say, that's why he picks Steve Ritchie all these times, for the speed, fast flow. The SD looks better than the, what do they call it, the limited edition. Let's go with that. SD all the way. And guess what? It's still the same gameplay.
    102:24
    Okay. My rebuttal is not the same gameplay at all. The entire upper left of the play field is empty, and they have to cover it up with a huge sculpt because there's nothing there. You are not getting the value for your money. Hot rails, be prepared for non-color-changing hot rails. Boring. Come on. You want the full hot rails experience. You do not get the full experience with the SE. I don't know about you, but I like ball locks. I don't want virtual ball locks. I want to see the ball lock. I want to see that awesome upper play field. We love upper play fields. We need more upper play fields than pinball. You are dead wrong on that, sir. Rebuttal? Rebuttal. Very easy. Guess what? You get the sluggishness of the upper play fields. You get the ball lock raininess of it. And, oh, wait a sec. It's always a multi-ball. So guess what? You're always going to have balls dragging around. I want speed. I want fast. I want enjoyable gameplay. And I want it to be cheaper. $9,500 is not a great deal in the U.S. How much is it going to be for four Soarin'? It's going to be like $14,000, $13,000 plus the shipping over there? Nope. Go cheap. Go home.
    103:36
    No, go cheap or go home. So how does this work? Do I pick a winner? You pick a winner. Arguments. Who sold it better? I almost forgot.
    103:48
    Bruce! It's a winner. Bruce is a winner? Woo-hoo! So I am the winner for that round. Woo-hoo! And in the meantime, I'll figure out how expensive these games are in my region. Yeah, which would be a lot. Well, you're on the Euro, so what, the Euro is at 112 right now, or 114? Actually, we never converted to Euro here, so we have to... Oh, you did? Okay. That could be worse.
    104:19
    Okay, so for my... Pick the next one. I do. I'm going Avengers LE no actually no I'm not I'm going Rick and Morty ok Rick and Morty for the best humor shots and fun of a game if you love Rick and Morty and you love in your face raw fun the shots are good the newer games are even better now with more makeable easy shots. Who can beat the Nasty 2.0 lock? And the Denise 2.0 lock, too. Whatever his name is. The Nasty Denise. You say Denise, I say the Nasty. The Scott 2.0. There you go. You get a lot of fun with great art package. It really is. The cabinet pops on that one.
    105:14
    Rules are getting better every time. They're bringing out the rules. Better stuff. And who doesn't like the root for an underdog? like Spooky.
    105:23
    It's practically criminal. It is criminal. Criminal. Criminal to root against Spooky. Exactly. So, you can't root against the pick I'm picking. So, I'm pretty much done according to you. That's the way it should be. Alright. I choose Avengers Pro. So, you want the fast gameplay of Rick and Morty? Well, you can get the fast gameplay of Avengers. A faster, more flowing version as opposed to the premium. You talk about artwork, you think the Rick and Morty artwork is good? Look at the Avengers artwork. Absolute masterpiece. A killer rule set by Keith Owen that's so deep, so complicated, even Zach doesn't understand it. That's how incredible this rule set is with great shots. I mean, look at the little disc that spins around. You have that lock thing on the left. I don't know what it's called because I still have yet to play in Avengers, and you guys have. Boo. We got rid of that ramp that doesn't work on the right and replaced it with a spinner because we love spinners. Spinners are great. Incredible art, incredible gameplay, incredible rule set. Who doesn't love comic book themes? Avengers, baby, all the way. I rest my case.
    106:37
    Who doesn't like that game? I don't like the game. I want everything in that game. The right ramp for the Captain Marvel doesn't slow gameplay. It actually makes it more fun and more challenging. And when you actually hit that ramp, you're going, yes, this is what I wanted to see. I wanted to have a game that actually looks like it has a glove in it, instead of having a plastic piece that has freaking five LEDs on it that look like crap. The artwork is so much better on the LE, so you don't even want to get the regular standard edition. It's just, ugh. It's so good on the SV slash LE. Not SV, sorry. The premium slash LE. They did it twice. That's the best thing about it. It's just different colors. It looks great. Rule set, I'll have to give it to you on rule set, but that's about it. Everything else is Rick and Morty. That's you, Ron. Yes, Rick and Morty, a game that it took them about 50 to 100 of them to get the shots to actually flow correctly. A game that comes obviously not set up to work 100%, and the software continually locks up in certain modes, so it's still got some work to go there. I'm talking about how the game is right now. You literally can't play a mode without the thing locking up. To me, that's a big problem. I don't see how you can possibly, possibly say it's better, especially when we have Sorin on here who knows about software. He couldn't possibly choose a game that has lock-up issues. I rest my case. Potential, only on one game. Nope, happens all the time. Don't listen to him.
    108:10
    So that was it? Mm-hmm. Bruce, I'm sorry, you're mumbling. The winner's Ron. Yes Thank you Alright And for the intermission here I've now figured out how much Jersey Jack games are here According to our importer This limited edition is 81,500 KR Which is just under 13,000 US dollars Damn baby Not including And the so called Limited edition including taxes and all that is just under $10. So, there you go. $9,600.
    108:55
    Okay, Ron. I'm thinking if I pick one, all of a sudden you're going to pick like Avengers Premium and see how great it is when you just said how it sucks.
    109:03
    I pick Avengers Premium. Obviously the superior playfield, the superior artwork for all the stuff that Bruce just said. He just said how it's superior, so he can't I'd like to rebut that. Superior artwork, superior right ramp shot, much better than the captive ball and the spinner, with the killer rule set from Keith Elwin. The awesome spinning disc that on this one raised this up and goes to a cool subway, Flight 2000, anyone? The greatness of the subway. It's awesome. You can see the locked balls. It's awesome. It has all the features that the pro that already won the last round has, and more incredible artwork, incredible software. I give you Avengers Premium. Thank you. I'm going Avengers L.E. Oh, Jesus Christ.
    109:49
    You suck. And you get a back glass. You get beautiful armor. Can you even come? That's so stupid. Danny's back. We'll pull in your idea here. All the rules that Ron just said are exactly the same.
    110:06
    I rest my case. But you get better stuff. Get an autograph from Keith Owen. Oh, rebuttal. Who wants a regular, real back glass? Those things are dangerous. They can break. Lame mirroring that will not work. The artwork isn't as good as the premium because it's a different shade. The colors on the premium are much better. And everything else is the same as you said. So there you go. Premium is not the way to go because LE means one thing, limited edition. If I put my cost up that I bought my limited edition for, I'm most likely going to get that money out of it. On a premium, you dropped and you're done. LE is the way to go. Guess what? Back glasses are beautiful. Translites, that's just not the way to go anymore. Mirrored back glasses are even better. Even better. Artwork, hey, guess what? No hand wear on that side rails, on that side art, because guess what? That side art railing doesn't go all the way down. On my LE, I'm not wearing that away. I keep my cabinet nice and beautiful. Your yellow brick road edition lollipop rails. Yep, but it's sparkly yellow. And it looks great in person. And you get the autograph by Keith. And you get the better sound system. Not the cheap, cheesy crap that the premium gets. Rest my case. There was a big loophole in this whole, like, picking different versions here. Thank you, Zach. Yeah, thank you, Zach. I wasn't intending on being able to pick Ellie versus premium. Yeah, you shouldn't be able to pick the same damn game against each other. I assumed you guys would just be smart enough to figure that out. I assume Bruce would be smart enough to figure it out, but he's not. Nope, I take advantage of loopholes like the Cayley.
    111:46
    Yes, you are the Cayley of this game. And... Ronald is the winner. Really? Why did we win? Soren hates lollipop rails. He didn't tell you about that. It's a thing he's got. But that was not what I was evaluating. That was your argument. Oh, my argument. There you go. What was your argument? My argument was better. How? It's the same game, but better on my side. You didn't argue it well enough. And he never brought up price, so you can't take that into advantage. He didn't? He didn't. Oh, I totally did. You can listen back. Oh, I did it. He knows he didn't. He's laughing. Back check. Nope. You know what I think is amazing? this limited edition war run for the hill thing that's going on, why hasn't anyone made leg levelers that are colored? Colored leg levelers? Yeah, like a piece. Oh, instead of having just, you know, silver, you can color the same thing? Yeah, a little blank. Mod, go to the Stern store and you can get your new colored leg levelers. Yeah. Did you see the Stern store had the Stern shirt with the old school Stern writing on it? Yes, because you sent it to me. Yes, I did. It's great. Finally, acknowledging the old Stern is better. Yes. The old Stern is better. Okay. Yes.
    113:17
    Isn't it amazing they made the .matrix logo before .matrix? Yeah. They did. That's true. I call the Elvis font. That is nice. Also, a color complaint. Even like Avengers LE, the screws that hold in the bright yellow armor are black. They're black. It's pretty good. Yeah, see? And then the leg bolts are still silver, not yellow. I know. They should have been. Really? Yep, exactly. That's why I won. The bolts.
    113:46
    Well, speaking of Stern, Cheetah Playfields are out. Yes, Cheetah Playfields are going to be coming out soon from CPR. Hopefully they don't fuck these up like they did Meteor. Wow, what a great way to... Hey, I'm stating fact. So Bruce is an NOS Cheetah Playfield, right? I do. So is Ron going to be buying a cheetah CPR playfield If it right I think he should To keep up with the Brucie Well I mean there no one else I can ask that question to Yeah I don know My play field it not great but it not terrible
    114:19
    Ron is not buying because he's waiting for the ink version. The ink version. No, no, no. The ink version. If it's done right, Ron, and it's $750, will you buy one? I don't think so. Okay. Like, if you said, like, Dragon Fist or something. Which they're trying to get people That I would do Dragon Fist I'd get in a second Because I have the plastic set I have the Yeah And my play field is just not good No no I'd love to see that You know It'd be Who cares It's not Bruce Lee So you have no problem with It's not Bruce Lee He's wearing a headband Bruce Lee doesn't wear a headband Never wear You know Wear his headbands Yeah To work for CPN Or work for CPR right Exactly You guys want to hear something Crazy Sure, we're all about crazy here. I've never played a cheetah. Oh!
    115:11
    Oh, my goodness. I'm lucky I am. I have something to look forward to. You went to Pinburg. You know, you should have played the one there. Yes, but I didn't. Oh.
    115:21
    Fail, fail, fail. That'd be another good thing of just, what game have you not played that you should have played? Yes, I did want to. Yes. I would say Freedom. No, I actually played it. It's harder for us, honestly. Yeah. I haven't played a Thunderbirds either. No, I haven't played a Thunderbirds, but I have no interest, so that just negates that rule. I have played Thunderbirds. I like to play Guns N' Roses, the new one. Does it count if I say I'd like to play a working alien? That's true, too. Ours is actually working up here in Buffalo, so come on out, Ron. Because, yeah, I tried to play the one at Buffalo the one time, and it literally broke when I was playing it. Yeah, now it's working. Then I played it again, and it got in some kind of infinite loop. It wouldn't end. It had to be rebooted, and I gave up. You're going to break the game again, Bruce. Yeah, you don't want me playing it. I went to play it at a show that was in line, and then the glass broke, so I couldn't play that one. It still sucks, but I'll play it. I played it at InDisc, but it obviously wasn't working. Number one, I couldn't see anything because it was so dark, and number two was obviously not working because I ended up in some kind of loop again where something wouldn't finish and just it wasn't working.
    116:33
    So mine would be a working alien that I could see the ball. There you go. Yeah, it's incredibly dark. Yeah, it's very dark. Pocketier won't help you there either. No, that won't help you there. And they got rid of a cosmic gunfight. They couldn't get it fixed, so they pulled it off the floor finally.
    116:52
    They actually had a cosmic gunfight. I mean, what's the new one that came out from Suncoast? Oh, Cosmic Carnival. They had one, and it died after four days, and it never... Yeah, you're never going to get that fixed. Did they call the manufacturer for warranty? Yeah, they did. How'd that go? You're funny, Zach. Well, that game would be worth a lot, right? Because it's so rare. No, no, no. It's even broken. No. No, fail. The only one that's worth a lot broken is Magic Girl. Yeah. And it's not even broken. It just doesn't do anything. No, it's... It's not broken because it's working as complete as designed. As in, the mechs aren't even there, so yeah, they can't possibly do anything.
    117:33
    I'm still waiting on Deep Root with their, uh, showing us how the lifter works, their mover. Oh, that never did, that didn't happen, did it? Never. No. And it just got ignored over by everyone. Yeah, they were supposed to have a seminar on how their playfield, or, no, what's it, game setup? You could have one person set up a game. Yep. Yeah. Which would sound like a hinged thing on the bottom of the cabinet. It's like the filter does. Yep. Still haven't seen it. Not one mention about it. They have, like, ever since they're sort of revealed, the lucky six, I'll call them,
    118:10
    they've done nothing in, what, two months? They're working on getting this stuff working. I think they've learned their lesson about being loud and braggadocious, and I don't think you're going to hear a pee from them until they actually are going to release something.
    118:23
    I'll take that bet. Woo! You think you're going to hear something? I bet we hear at least one more thing that doesn't come out. Doesn't come out, yes. All things considered, I really hope they come out and rock and make some great games. But it's just... Pinball's hard. They're not impressing me with their bravado that backfired. Well, the bravado is one dude. Let's be fair. Unfortunately, he's the owner. But they stated that in September that, oh, watch us at Expo on our thing. and then you still don't do anything. You ignore it and it's just glossed over again.
    119:02
    I just don't understand why they would state that unless it doesn't work. Maybe you're right, Ron. Maybe they need to be not saying it. I think they need to be quiet. They need to turn from Hulk Hogan. They need to be more quiet. They need to be more like Ricky Steamboat or something. They're just going to be very humble. Staring at the camera. Wait until everything's ready, and then they come out. Yeah. They should do Haggis. Stream a game when it's finished, and it just totally surprises people how, you know, cohesive and complete it is. Yeah. Do we see anything in the next six months from Deep Room? Or hear anything? Six months? Yeah. You can't hear anything. Yeah. So you're thinking if Texas goes off? It won't, but yeah. Okay. If Texas does go off, do you think that will be their next reveal? No. I don't think so. Four months away. I still don't think so. Okay. There could be a virtual Texas Pinball Festival. Yeah. I think, number one, there won't be a Texas Pinball. It'll be like a virtual, or they'll do some kind of YouTube thing. They should consult with Jersey Jack on the proper way to reveal a game, because they killed it with Guns N' Roses. They did. Yes. Which I'm bringing them up because they also worked with the Slow Mo Guys. Do you know the Slow Mo Guys, Arbors? Yes. They're the ones that actually have a YouTube page where they go over everything slow-mo. Slow-mo. They show everything in super slow-mo cameras. So Jersey Jack got a hold of them and said, hey, would you like to do some pinball?
    120:36
    Sure. And they gave them a Willy Wonka, which you guys got to check this out if you haven't seen it. Just go to YouTube, look for the slow-mo guys and pinball. It's like the first video. And it's wild, some of the stuff, the way it looks. I was more impressed. I know a lot of people talk about the flipper rubber. Like when you flip the flipper, the rubber is actually moving off of the flipper, which is wild. But I thought like a lot of the mechs, something like it's just the thing that launches the ball. And you see the entire frame move when it fires in. I like how when he hit a ramp and the ball was just skating back and forth, back and forth up the ramp. You had the sense that the ball is like curving against the side. It wasn't really. It was more wild. Yeah. Highly recommend it, especially since, let's see, how many views do you think that video has got? Probably at least 2,000.
    121:36
    700,000. Yeah, 692,000. Wow. Yeah, I think Pinball's got some. They're exposing themselves to everyone.
    121:47
    So good job, Jersey Jack. Because the Slow Mo guys, they have 14 million subscribers. Speaking of Willy Wonka, now we have a foreigner on the show. We could have some fun with language. Am I the first European guy, by the way, on the Slam Shed podcast?
    122:02
    Hmm. Yeah, I think so. We have a couple of Australians and Canadians. Some other European guy somewhere just screaming at us with a microphone right now that we're forgetting. I'm European, you asshole! Well, there could be some living in the U.S. that still has a home country passport. Okay, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. This is something I found out recently. This is good. For the original theatrical release in the theaters back in the 70s, in this country, that movie was titled, translated to English literal, of course, The Boy Who Drowned in the Chocolate Sauce.
    122:43
    Oh, my. How about that? I think that's put on every new Jersey Jack pinball machine. Yes, exactly. Alternate Translate. Alternate Translate coming. There you go. I love it. They did some wicked movie title translations back then. Of course, nowadays it's only for kids' stuff. But back then for comedies and action flicks, it was really. You talked about Blazing Saddles on the last show. That was the sheriff shoots at everything. The sheriff shoots at everything. Everything. Wow. Not everyone, but everything. Everything. Yeah. Wow. Interesting. That is definitely different. The Cannonball Run was on a ride with the crazy ones. Wow. That's a weird alternate title. That one has a nice rhyme to it in my language. You thought you were going to say Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory was really going to be called like Hershey Highway or something.
    123:43
    Yikes. I'm watching a video right now. Man, the side art is so plain on Willy Wonka. Oh, it's terrible. Oh, it's just blue with the logo. Yeah. It's like the last minute. Let's figure out this stuff. Oh, no. We have a whole three images, stock photos. Yeah, stock photos. Like Photoshop. But we have Guns N' Roses, so we have actual art. It's so much easier when you can just use whatever you want, isn't it? Yeah. or whatever the hell the Rick and Morty people were doing. They kind of, like, call out and stuff, and that thing is ridiculous. Oh, isn't it great? See, Rick and Morty is one of the things that gives me hope for my dream team. Oh, for the... The Beatles and Butthead. Yeah. Yes. Because, I mean, that game is, it's just clips from the show, and Justin Roiland, the, you know, the guy who actually does the voice. That's it. He's the only one doing it, as far as I know. The only one with the show doing custom call outs. I know they have other people. You know, Jeff Parsons is in the game. from the pinball podcast, etc. The pinball players podcast. Sorry, Jeff. It just gives me hope that the right company doing it, get Mike Judge in there, do all the call-outs. It could be awesome. It's my dream.
    124:59
    Mail ball bag? Oh, God. Okay. We'll do the mail ball bag. It's time for the mail ball bag. Where's your sound effect? You didn't even say anything. You have to say it before I can do the sound effect. I can't have it, me saying it. But being that we just set it up, isn't it lost everything?
    125:15
    No. You have editing. Well, I'm not going to edit that. Okay. Then that's up to you. Okay. Sign for the mail ball bag.
    125:23
    There we go. I love this one. So we mentioned the new cheetah play fields, right? Yes. So our very own Scott has emailed us. Yes, he has. All excited, right? Yeah, he was all excited. CPR will be making cheetah play fields, so prepare for the onslaught of people building bad cheetahs. Yeah. Man! They already are talking about it. How would they have to get the memory crop targets? How do we botch some of these games, steal from one game to make another game that people want? What are they going to use for the cabinet? You can find Flight 2000. I guess Flight 2000. That'd be for the only one, right? Because all those are multi-level. Yeah. They'll have weird stuff in them. Yeah. Big game would work. Big game would work, too. Yep. Big game would work. But, I mean, it's a big game. Why would you want to do that? Just do the Fight 2000 instead because it's a good gamutron. Yep. There you go. We got a response back for our complaining about the TWIP promoter's database sorting. Yes, we did. And it still wasn't a great answer. Well, no, it's because Bruce doesn't understand the answer. But, yes, it's a very detailed technical answer that I had no problem with. But the problem I have with it is, guess what? If you go by relevance and have the number of hits, just go by number. So, in other words, even with this very clear, concise answer that was given, Bruce still isn't happy. No, because guess what? If you go to Best Buy and you go by the comments on there and you go by relevance of how the ratings are and by reviews, you can go highest to lowest. You will never satisfy, Bruce. And they didn't go highest to lowest. Oh, God. Sorry. We have an email from Jim. Hi, Jim. He says, would you buy that from Pinball Expo?
    127:10
    Because they had an online auction, I believe. Yeah, they didn't tell anybody about they were going to do this until the day of. Well, let's see. A Seabird jukebox for $1,350?
    127:22
    No. No? A Daddy's Frankenstein for $3,200? No. God, no. South Park for $3,500? No. Gottlieb, the games. Which was actually, I think Ellen said he liked this one. $1,300. He liked this game. No. No? He wouldn't do it for $1,300? No. No? Zach? I've never played the game. You've never played the games? I've never played the games. I've never played the games game. Now, ShopRite has the games game, selling lots of games games, everything you game game. Okay. The Spinball Jolly Park, $3,500. No. That's not a horrible price for the market. They're going for $4,000 on eBay. So I should have gotten it for $3,500 then? No, because it's still a bad game, but it's not like a great price. But it's got the cool pop bumpers with the little bumper cars on them. Yay. Just like Oktoberfest. Yeah. You get one of those too, Ron? No. Bruce is, though. He loves it. Alien Star. I like that game. And, of course, that game sold before it went to auction. Yeah, I know. I love it. This game is sold. $2,200. Yeah. It all depends. I didn't see the condition of it. I'd pay $2,200, unless it was total shit. Kings of Steel, but it had no price on that one. Pinbot for $2,200.
    128:41
    No. No? I don't know. Lethal Weapon 3 for $3,300. God, no. No, no. I'm going to sell mine for that much. Yeah, I know. Ron would be happy. Centaur, first edition. Oh, I guess it means the non-LE edition. Playfield Warn, $2,500.
    128:59
    Not bad. No. Not bad, but I don't know. You get the parts and you get the playfield. Yeah, you get the playfield. Is that a maybe? That's a maybe. Okay. Jungle Lord, upper playfield, worn, $1,500. No. I say no. They made a ton of Jungle Lords. $1,500 is like a good condition. Nice one. Yeah, nice one. Yeah, I agree. Black Knight, backless flaking, bad around the title, playfield wear near bonus lights, $1,800. No. There's so many of them out there, you can find them. Yeah. Unless you said it says candidate for hard top and repo back glass. Does Mayfair still have the repros for Black Knight? They do? Yeah, they do. Mayfair still has some.
    129:40
    Let's see. All games good cosmetics unless otherwise specified. Okay. So it looks like we might have gotten one of them. Yeah. Possibly. Maybe two.
    129:49
    We're so picky. The pin clash thing that I can't play in because I don't have a Jurassic Park that Carl D'Angelo and IE Pinball is running. in a tournament for streamers.
    130:02
    Oh, Zad's in that. He has a Jurassic Park. Well, I might be able to actually get off my ass and do it. Yeah, because you have to actually qualify because they have 24 spots and like 40-something people want to enter. So you've got to get in it to win it. Escape from Nublar speedruns where the top 24 get in. The top 8 get buys.
    130:24
    So, of course, they already got like Escher, Escher Lefkoff, of course, and Raymond Davidson are in with sub two minute times. Yeah. Great. Thanks. So they're in. Whoops. Yeah. So I don't even know what that means. I have no idea what Escape from Nublar is. I've never, I've only played Jurassic Park a couple of times at Rock Fantasy and a couple of times at Silver Ball Saloon. I don't know what Escape from Nublar is other than, isn't it one of the wizard modes, but you can just go straight to it? Yes. I think that's the original of the Escape from Nublar modes that now everyone's doing. Yeah. So they now do it on TM. You need to beat Ninja Turtles. So, Soren, where you are, Do you see all these new Stern games? Yes. Stern is everywhere. They have a clear presence there. But, and, Jersey Jagger also here, but they're not that much out in the wild. But, yeah, we had a Jurassic Park in our pinball lounge for a year now, so.
    131:16
    It's just gone, but we have had it. So what would you say, let's just say the last couple years, what are, like, your favorite Stern games? The newer ones that come out. Deadpool. Right. Deadpool. Yes. I love there was no hesitation there. It's like Deadpool. Yeah, Deadpool. Deadpool is awesome. Amazing. Amazing package. The call-outs and the display work and all that just works. Yep. Great play field. Sounds, everything. Easy to understand. Easy to play. You know, appealing. I have one on vacation. I'm happy. Right. Although there was some people complaining about the new code. Of course. I complain about the 74 champion scores that all of a sudden popped up on that, but that's another thing. But they had, like, the disco multiball now has, like, four different songs that it can pick.
    132:05
    Mm. I know I was, they added a polka song for the Katana Rama. The problem is, Katana Rama had two songs, and one of them is, like, my favorite song in the game. The one with the keyboard. I love that one. Organ. I love that one. Yeah, organ. But the problem is now... Ron loves the organ. Yeah. Oh, God.
    132:30
    Great organ. So now the problem is that you have the polka song. I've now decreased from 50% chance of hearing my song to 33% chance of hearing my song.
    132:41
    Boo. Always got to complain. Now you just need to open Pinball Browser and replace the other two songs with your favorite songs. Just that one. It's all loops. It's all 100% time now.
    132:53
    This is Dan. Daniel. Hi, Dan. He says, Daniel Hoffheins. Wait a minute. Isn't he the one who wants stars and has stars now? He has stars. Yes, he has stars. Hi, fellas. Finally caught up on episode. You guys being back on this regular schedule is cool. Not for my editing. It's not. I had intended to send you some. It's great. I get to go every week. Got out mail bag. Yeah. mailball bag material, but the episodes just kept on coming. And then a clusterfuck popped in, too. Yes. Bruce and Kat, thanks a ton for taking the time to tell your story of the Silver Ball Saloon. That was something I had been asking about, and unfortunately, it was under different circumstances than we all expected. I wish you all the luck in your future endeavors. Thank you. A couple episodes back, you guys were talking about Deep Root and building the best worst game out of parts. I would add the amazing Thunderbirds ramps to that list. Oh, yeah. The original ones before they redid it. Yeah. Because they made them less sucky, I guess. I got a couple of Ron's games recently. I traded my Jurassic plus a bit of cash for a Deadpool and a Star Wars. Smart man. One out of two isn't bad, Daniel. One out of two is not bad at all. Yeah, you should have kept the Jurassic. Deadpool is amazing. You should have kept the Jurassic and got the Deadpool. I agree. Well, use the cash to get the Star Wars. Get rid of the Deadpool. Keep the Jurassic. Deadpool is amazing, still working on getting to know Star Wars. You'll love it when you get to know it. No, you won't. Shut up. It sucks. Shut up. It sucks. Also, a correction from the last pre-Clusterbuck episode. In talking about Black Knight Sword of Rage and Steve Ritchie two-level play fields, Ron mentioned the last one prior he did was No Fear. He made World Poker Tour after. Fail. Ron did say he wanted writing corrections on his other show. I need someone to correct this correction because I don't think I said that I don't remember what I remember saying was that Black Knight Slaughter Rage had the best art on a Steve Richard game since No Fear I thought that's what I said but guess what, if you notice Ron always tries to wiggle out of his mistakes I'm wiggling out of it he wiggles out of it I don't think I would have said that No Fear had a two level play field because it doesn't, it's just a jump ramp it's still a two level play field it's not a play field up there It's literally just a receiver that receives the ball. It's just a really fancy ramp. Yeah. It's fancy. A big monster ramp with a metal piece on it also. I don't think it counts as a playfield unless you actually have, like, a playing surface. What do you think, Snorren? Is it a playfield? No fear. Is that a playfield? Is that an upper playfield?
    135:26
    Is it on the main level? No. It's then, guess what? An upper playfield. So is every ramp a playfield, Bruce? No, but it's not a ramp. This is my opinion. It is an upper playfield. Mainly because there's a flipper. I mean, it's not a diverter or anything like that There's a player interaction stuff So what about like on WWELE that has a habit trail with a flipper You can flip the ball off the habit trail Is that an upper playfield? What game is that?
    135:55
    WWELE? Yeah, never heard of it You've never seen it, so Or what about It's an all-inclusive game Shadow has three You're saying in your mind Shadow has three upper playfields Three? That's what Zach's saying because as a diverter, it moves it and kicks it up. That's why I disagree with you guys that it's not a play field. But, yeah, the diverter's on the ramp. It's a player-controlled thingy, you know. But you still – it's not a flipper. That's why I agree with Soren. It's not a flipper. It's a flipper. So we have two versus two. We need the tiebreaker. All right, listeners, this is all up to you. So you can write in to sclamtiltpodcast.gmail.com and tell us whether no fear has an upper play field or not. Yes or no? Drew should put a poll on Facebook. Yeah, put a poll. They got rid of the polls, but I'm just going to put a post. I'll put a post up saying, give your argument.
    136:49
    Give your argument. No, just say whether Bruce is wrong or not, which he is. No, I'm not. All right. Let the listeners decide. Let the listeners prove that Ron is wrong again. Because usually when Ron asks for these questions, what happens? Okay, okay. You notice how he's not arguing on that one anymore. I just noticed this other email. I just realized I got paid for Twitch. Oh, wow. How much did you get paid? $119.
    137:20
    Really? Congratulations, though. The Slam Tilt Podcast makes $59.50. Excellent. I'll take my share tomorrow. I knew you'd say that, too, if I mentioned it.
    137:28
    It's like, what's the name of the stream, Ron? And wait, I've been on it a couple times, so my presence makes more bits come to your... Yes, your presence makes more bits come in. Yeah. It pays for the maintaining the camera. On the debate of art on Steve Ritchie games post-Nofea, I say don't forget Star Trek. I really like that playfield. Really? Yeah. The art on the playfield? Yes. I like simple stuff. I like the stuff that works. I mean, the photon thingy triangles, they're too big. They should be half size. But apart from that, I really like it. No, I like everything else. I really like that game. I really like everything else about the LE. I love the lighted warp ramp. I like the lights on the side. I like the head lights, everything. Okay. I have one more note here for something we asked during the Clusterbuck. We asked the Loser Kid guys if they could ask Jack Danger, who they were going to interview, about the whole, when are those capture cards coming out for the Stern games? Yeah. Well, he gave an answer. As soon as the NCAA gets sorted out. Yeah. That's the delay. So whether you believe that or not is inconsequential. So if that's true, then those cards will not be available for probably a couple years. Well, at least a couple years. Because that's how long it's going to take to get that sorted out. Please mediate on the reasoning behind that. I cannot grasp why they're setting a hardware upgrade and then they are afraid to be punished by streamers that get taken down. I don't get it. It allows you to rip copyrighted content. It gives you the tool to do it. What? So that's a problem. Oh, that's because it's a direct audio feed. Yeah, it's a direct video feed from the... If you take a bloody microphone and put it in front of a speaker, it's another deal than if you plug in a cable. Yeah. Well, they're letting you do it easily. Either way, Twitch doesn't like it because they will just – I know Jack on Deadflip, a lot of his streams now, he doesn't even do the VOD anymore because he can't because he'll immediately get strikes and they'll just pull stuff. Like if he wants to stream Beatles, he cannot do a VOD, a video on demand of it. They're like Insta-ban. They're like an Insta-ban game. So I was actually worried about doing a VOD for Star Wars when I streamed it yesterday, but I had no hits on it yet. Yeah, mine never got hits on them either. But I have like ACDC. I had the sound way down, and it caught a snippet of You Shook Me All Night Long on YouTube, and I had to get that out of there before it would let me make the video public. Bloody internet giants. It's bad. It's like on Twitch you can get away if you don't do any VODs, but like on Facebook, they'll shut down a stream in progress. Yes, they will. If something like that's going on. Streaming as a future is a black screen and you don't say anything. Yeah. Well, it's, you know, what people don't realize is when all these streamers, most of them stream the video games, that's all technically a violation. You are showing another company's copyrighted content on your stream, but the companies let it pass because it's free advertising for their product. But if Activision said I don't want this guy streaming Call of Duty on Twitch would be like You can't stream this here anymore And they don't want to do that I say liberate the copyright legislation And move on The problem is even with it It's going to be all Every country has different copyrights for everything And that's going to be the problem also Just give it all of them I'll tell you a way through You just have to make What you do be a newscast. Because a newscast, you can film whatever you want and tell about it. As long as it's not a news program. You start it with a news program of hey, you know, Biden won the election and now we're going to start streaming.
    141:38
    That's a good idea. I know I've heard things about like in Europe, you could get a gaming, a gamer's license. I don't know anything about that. I'm the wrong guy to ask. I'm sorry. But you stream. I heard this. I'm trying to remember what stream it was on. I think it was JDL Pinball, who does some of the European streams. Like in Germany. They're out of Germany. They were actually able to get like a gaming license or a gamer's license. So if they put this stuff up on YouTube and YouTube says, no, you can't do this, they can just go back and say, no, we have a so-and-so license, and it gets lifted. Then you have to get out of free time. Kind of, yeah. But they still need more money to keep your video up. That's what it really is. Pretty much, yeah, kind of. I assume it's not free, this particular license. Of course not. Nothing in Europe is free. So that was the mail ball back. So that's all cleared out.
    142:30
    I also wanted to make a mention. I saw this come through a few days ago. John Cosmo, who me and Bruce knew, passed away a few days ago. He ran the Michigan Pinball Expo for many years, and he was a staple at the Pinball Expo. The first couple Pinball Expos, he was one of the main presences I remember there. He, along with Josh Sharp, ran the Pinball Tournament. Yep. I have one of his trophies here. Me too. We both do. Both do, because we both won it together. We won one of them.
    143:07
    And, yeah, I just... It's a sad thing. Yeah. It's a sad thing. He had that kind of larger-than-life presence. He was a big dude. He had that, like, I will be able to kick the fucking shit out of you look, pretty much. You did not want to mess with this dude. John was not a... He had that look. It's like... But once you got to know John, he was actually pretty easygoing. Oh, yeah. My memory is going down. It was at the old building. Now it's the second old building.
    143:35
    Downstairs to the... And it was the first time they had the... So that was the Weston or the Wyndham? Yes. Windham. I think it was the Windham. Windham, yes.
    143:45
    And it was one of the first times they had the overnight. You know, so playing with all that. Yeah, the game room doesn't close. Yes. Insanity. So I went down at 2 o'clock thinking, hey, I'm going to go check this out. Oh, you think you're going to get out some games without a crowd. That's what you're thinking. And it was, actually. It was really good that year. And there's Kaz beating up this poor Lord of the Rings, and I actually got to watch him get the Valinor. Oh, wow. He was doing everything. No, he was doing bang backs. He was doing everything just to keep it so he got the Valinor. But he did. That's the best thing I remember about him getting the Valinor. And that was his goal. He was telling everyone, I'm going to get the Valinor. You watch. And the ball drained. He banged, hit the lockdown bar and popped the ball back up and played again. And Valinor achieved with a crowd. That has to be pretty unique. It was cool. It was like six or seven of us watching. and we're like, holy shit, you know? I, of course, I did not know the guy, but when I saw the news, I immediately remembered him from the Special Bandits film. Yes, yes. The speech at him, yeah. Yep. He was a very good person. He, you know, he did do the Michigan Pinball Show, and that was a big undertaking at the college they used to do it at, and he had a lot of struggles with it, and he made it as best as he could, and he was good for the hobby. And it's sad. I feel bad for his family. My heart fell to everyone. He left a couple kids with his wife, and that's never easy. And there is currently a GoFundMe for the kids' college. Yes.
    145:28
    So that's, you know, if you see that, it's on PennSci. It's on PennSci. You can find the link and go from there.
    145:35
    Let's give our thanks to everyone we know. Let's thank Jeff Teolis, Marty. Hi, Steve Bowden from Fama Bonus. Hi, Zach. Hi.
    145:46
    Hi, Pinball Princess. Crystal Gemnick, The Plum, coming out on a regular podcast. Yeah, Crystal, I've got to thank her. This week she helped me out with something from Marco. Who else we got out there? Oh, the Lose a Kid Pinball Podcast. Hi, guys. Welcome to the list. Sister and Mrs. Pin, the Super Awesome Pinball Show. Every other podcast and streamer ever. Yep. Super awesome. Pitbull or the Posh Show. And, uh... That Francie dude, he can make radio shows, can't he? He can. Yeah. He can. Can I say a couple of shout-outs, too? Yes, shout-out. Plug away. Plug away, Sorn. I want to make a shout-out to Slam Silk Podcast. What is it? Five years? Six years? Five years of very informative, entertaining, and sometimes loony. Sometimes. Just sometimes. Sometimes. God, I feel disappointed now. And, of course, I would like to give a shout-out to my mates, Scotty, Scotty Charles. Oh, definitely Scott Charles Ross. And I would like to say thank you and respect to all the pinball designers and programmers who have made all these wonderful games. And when we go under the hood and toy with it a little, it's not to say that you were wrong or didn't know what you were doing. It's just because, you know. You were rushed. The time has shown a couple of mishaps and things that needed to be tweaked.
    147:19
    And because we love your work, so. Yes, this is true. Okay. Can people reach you, or do you want them not to reach you with any new ROM requests? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
    147:33
    Just find me on Pinside. Yeah, just post on the Pinside thread, and you might read it. Everyone is welcome to reach out. Everyone. I'm happy to hear from people, and if some of the professionals, some of the guys who make these games like to post a comment, then they're welcome to contact me, too. Of course. Zach, do you have anything to shout out with? No, not really You guys cover most of it usually Wow, we did something right? Yeah, so Zach, if we want to see your attempts at Nuvlar To get into the pin class tournament How do we do that? Twitch.tv Z-A-C-A-J Follow him on Twitch Follow me and subscribe to me if that's possible although I don't think it is. You can also deposit money directly in my PayPal account. DM me for the info.
    148:35
    Sometime. How do they get in touch with us, Ron? They get in touch with us by emailing us at slamtiltpodcast at gmail.com. You can also go to our website, slamtiltpodcast.com. Very convenient. Everything's in the upper right corner, all the links. They still work as of last time I checked. Hey, luckily I did send an email, actually a PM to you and Dennis on some of the issues you had last episode. Keep up the good work.
    149:02
    Oh, he's talking about the other podcast I'm on, which I forgot to mention. Thank you for reminding me. Silver Ball Chronicles, as heard on the Pinball Network. Check it out. Rumors are we'll be recording a new episode soon. Yep, but luckily I was able to now I have them on PM now so I can actually tell them when they're wrong directly. Zach, do you want to be added to that one? Don't know. It could be really bad for their self-esteem. I think it might.
    149:31
    Just wanted to know what to say now. I just don't care anymore. At least Zach participates in the trivia to prove his awesome knowledge. You don't. I don't get the invite. Yeah, sure. I think you just are scared. I have never gotten the invite at all. So when it comes up next time, put me on it. I'll whip both your asses, bitches. Oh, I hear a challenge. Zach, tell him he has no chance. I mean, we do know that Bruce has champion pinberg sign-up skills, so he'll probably be able to beat your clicking skills. Oh, that's true. That's true.
    150:08
    All right. Well, I think that's it. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Soren. I am very excited for these new ROMs. Just one more time. What are the four new ones that are coming out? I think it was four. In no particular order, Red and Ted's Roadshow, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Radical, and Junkyard. And they will be available through official resellers of ROMs from Planetary Pinball Supply. Excellent. Yeah. Thanks, everybody. Until next time, say goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, Jimbo.
    150:49
    Hold my mind, hold my mind Can you move me, can you fly? Hold my mind, hold my mind Can you move me, can you fly? Hold my mind, hold my mind I'll keep you, keep you alive
    151:19
    Oh my. Thanks, everybody. Until next time, say goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, Jimbo. Bye-bye.
    152:03
    Thank you, Soren. Well, that's going to be a fun edit at the end there. I don't know what to do with that. I'm going to have to put that at the end.