Episode 243: Haggis Pinball update

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·25m 2s·analyzed·Feb 6, 2020

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Haggis Pinball reveals revolutionary playfield durability solution in Celts development interview.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews Damien Harton and Greg Silby of Haggis Pinball during a facility tour in Australia, discussing the development of Celts: Let the Games Begin. The episode covers the game's rapid 13-month development timeline, customizable clan/tartan features, innovative playfield technology combining plywood and acrylic that eliminates dimpling/pooling/chipping issues, and Haggis's upcoming appearances at Texas Pinball Festival and MGC.

Key Claims

Damien Harton started Haggis Pinball and Celts development in January 2019, approximately 13 months before the interview (making it roughly early 2020)
high confidence · Direct timeline discussion: 'I think I bought my first pin bot a little bit under 18 months ago' and 'You would have started exactly 12 months ago because it was January 2019.'
Haggis Pinball has developed a hybrid playfield substrate combining 9mm plywood and 4.5mm acrylic with cast printed substrate that eliminates dimpling, pooling, and chipping
high confidence · Detailed technical explanation with live demonstration: 'It's actually a combined plywood and acrylic top. So it is 9mm plywood and 4.5mm acrylic with a cast printed substrate in between. They are chemically and mechanically bonded and what it results now in is no dimpling, no pooling, no chipping ever.'
The acrylic playfield surface has been tested with a ball rolling across it 60,000-70,000 times over 2.5 days with zero marks or scratches
high confidence · Direct testing report: 'it's probably done about 60,000 or 70,000 passes of that ball on that piece of acrylic. and there's not one single mark.'
Greg Silby joined Haggis Pinball as programmer/designer after meeting Damien at a tournament around the start of 2019
high confidence · Greg's own account: 'I was at a tournament with Damien, probably at the start of the year, and I was asking him how Haggis was going' and 'You're hired' response from Damien.
Celts features customizable clan selection with personalized nameplate, tartan colors, coat of arms/shield, and surname callouts on backglass and in light shows
high confidence · Feature explanation: 'get your name in the game option' and 'We'll also put your surname on the back glass. So it's got Celts, clan, you, or your company or your business or whatever you want it to be.'
The physical playfield design has remained largely static from the TPF 2019 whitewood to current build, with only minor adjustments (five drop targets reduced to four)
high confidence · Damien: 'The reality too of the design, it really hasn't changed from a physical playfield perspective much from the Whitewood at all. I think we went down from five drop targets to four drop targets'

Notable Quotes

“You're hired.”
Damien Harton @ ~7:30 — Pivotal moment when Greg Silby accidentally offered to help and was immediately brought on as programmer, establishing the core development team.
“I didn't come all this way just to come all this way.”
Damien Harton (referencing someone else's phrase) @ ~48:00 — Encapsulates Damien's commitment to seeing the project through to completion and success, reflecting the 'go hard or go home' mentality.
“No dimpling, no pooling, no chipping ever. I'm seeing it firsthand. In fact, I'm going to walk over right now with a hammer in hand, all right?”
Damien Harton @ ~35:00 — Dramatic demonstration of the revolutionary playfield technology, immediately backing claims with physical evidence.
“This is art that you can play.”
Damien Harton @ ~42:30 — Philosophical statement about Haggis's design approach, addressing collector concerns about balancing preservation with playability.
“I'm a big fan of what you're doing, of you personally, of your passion, of your team. And I want to see this succeed because I can only imagine where this can go from here.”
Jeff Teolis @ ~45:00 — Host's personal endorsement and emotional investment in Haggis Pinball's success, legitimizing the grassroots manufacturer story.
“It's probably done about 60,000 or 70,000 passes of that ball on that piece of acrylic. and there's not one single mark.”
Damien Harton @ ~40:15 — Quantifiable proof of the acrylic durability solution, validating the technical claims with empirical testing data.
“We know how we can resolve the pooling issue, but the reality of the dimpling issue is still a large reality. And look, like most things, I suppose it's predominantly a commercial reality that it's a problem because if you wanted to spend 10 or 20 times the cost of manufacture for a playfield, I'm sure we could resolve it.”
Damien Harton @ ~43:45 — Candid acknowledgment of the playfield durability problem across the industry and the cost/benefit rationale behind the new hybrid solution.

Entities

Damien HartonpersonGreg SilbypersonJeff TeolispersonGeorgia (Harton)personHaggis PinballcompanyCelts: Let the Games BegingameMartin Robbinsperson

Signals

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business_signal: Haggis Pinball demonstrates startup resilience by outsourcing specialized work (artwork, music, application/printing) while maintaining core development focus
high · Damien describes design challenge to hire artist, outsourcing to local musician for original sound, and third-party vendor for artwork application. Strategy allows founder to allocate limited time to critical path items.
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community_signal: Australian pinball community (Martin Robbins, Ryan C, Dr. John Cosson, others) actively supporting Haggis Pinball development through playtesting and feedback
high · Multiple references to community members providing guidance, playtesting, suggesting design changes (Ryan's whitewood suggestion), and purchasing pre-orders.
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event_signal: Celts: Let the Games Begin scheduled for public debut at Texas Pinball Festival in March, with follow-up at MGC the following week
high · Damien confirms attending both TPF and MGC in consecutive weeks, noting three-day drive between venues with family in tow.
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licensing_signal: Celts leverages Scottish cultural IP (Highland Games, clan history, Celtic heritage, tartan traditions) as thematic foundation, allowing customization of player-specific cultural elements
high · Greg describes mode design driven by Highland Games research and Scottish clan history. Customization allows customers to specify real Scottish tartans/clan associations or create custom ones.
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market_signal: Boutique pinball manufacturer (Haggis) successfully executed rapid product development (13 months from zero experience to show-ready game) competing against established manufacturers

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.075

0:00

It's time now for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Gilles. You can find our group on Facebook. We're also on Twitter at Pinball Profile. Email us, pinballprofile at gmail.com. Please subscribe on your favorite podcatcher and check us out on Instagram at pinballprofile. Spending time in Australia, so many great things, and easily one of the highlights and a to-do list, really, was going to make sure I checked out Haggis Pinball. And that's where I am. I'm with Damien Harton and Greg Silby. And they're here right now as I'm touring the facility. Hey, Damien, how are you? I'm very good, Jeff. Yourself? I'm wonderful. It's great to be in this amazing country of yours and at this facility. Greg, nice to meet you, too. Yeah, nice to meet you, too, Jeff. Houston Astros hat. So what's that mean? You've been watching us here? Are you the cameras for the... No, no. My sister's actually living in Houston at the moment. So when I was over there, she made sure I got lots of Houston stuff. So I've got Texans and Astros and a whole bunch of stuff. So, yeah, it's great. It is good. Good team. All right. All that aside, I know a lot of us are going to be seeing Damien and Greg at TPF in March. And once again, going to see, if you didn't see it at Expo, you're going to be seeing kelts let the games begin this incredible haggis pinball machine that has come a long way since you really only been doing this for i guess 13 months yeah something crazy like that it was i think i bought my first pin bot a little bit under 18 months ago and uh it started from ground zero when i got it home i didn't know how to open the back glass like i in fact i got it home and i didn't have a key so i think we we played a game and i think on the second game a ball got stuck and i couldn't take the glass off to get the ball out that's that's the point i started out yeah less than less than 18 months ago that is bizarre so again this to me is a just a great grassroots success story of haggis pinball and just how i know a lot of us in the pinball community are really wanting the best for haggis pinball because we like to see the little guy succeed and the guy who is so passionate. Listen, I've been talking to Georgia, alright, your wife, and she just says, when Damien's in something he's in it full blast, and that's what it has been. So, Greg, how did you come to Haggis Pinball? First of all, let people know what you do, obviously the programming and all that kind of good stuff. Yep, so I've been working on the game programming for Damien on Haggis Pinball's Kelts. So I was at a tournament with Damien, probably at the start of the year, and I was asking him how Haggis was going and what he was doing. and he was talking about how he was going to start doing kelts, and he had a very short time frame to get it ready for TPF. He wanted to take a whitewood over to TPF. Again, yeah, think of the math of that. Damien, in 2019 in January, yeah, I'm going to start something up. TPF is only a few months away, and that's bizarre. I think it was only two months away, yeah. You would have started exactly 12 months ago because it was January 2019. Yeah, so we're sitting in a tournament having a bit of a chat about how he was going, and he sort of said it was going to be a tight schedule. And I mistakenly said, is there anything I could do to help?

3:21

You're hired. That's it, yeah. Because Daniel and I have worked together for a long time, so he knows my skill set and things I've done in the corporate world and things. So I said, you know my skills, is there anything you think I could do to help out? And he said, yeah, actually, I think there is. And so getting into the software side and working through that was sort of where I helped out. And, yeah, it's been a great journey since I've been really enjoying it. We're going to get into that software because I want to explain this game. And whenever I hear somebody talk about a game that I personally haven't flipped, it's very hard for me to visualize what we're talking about. So I'm trying to paint that picture as I describe this for those who haven't played Kelts, haven't flipped it at Expo, or you'll be able to see it and flip it at TPF. But you've got the three flippers, two amazing spinners, this kind of caber toss in the middle. And what that is, is I want to compare it to silver ball mania. Is that a safe thing to do, that kind of semi-arc or Spanish eyes or something like that? Yeah, that's what everybody tells me. I'd never seen Silver Ball Mania. It's a compliment because it's such a fun game. Yeah. Now, I think the two initial design criteria I had when I was trying to come up with that play field, again, just making it up as I went along, was I wanted a nice, smooth outer orbit, and I wanted a horseshoe because I like space invaders. That was sort of the two things that I started with, and I thought that's sort of evolved from there. So, yeah. but it's very very important too when we talk about some greg's programming i mean there's a lot of different modes in there and we'll go over some of the modes a little bit but just i don't want people to be kind of lost when they listen okay i haven't flipped it so i don't really understand it or what to do but there are a lot in there there's beat the board and storm the gates tug of war and uh hit the high notes too which i thought was funny as well so coming up with modes greg what is the order of operation i'm always fascinated by these companies you've got damien who's just new into pinball, I want to create a pinball machine, where do you start with this? Is it the play field? Is it the code so that you can adjust to the play field? It's probably a bit of both, to be honest. Damien's sort of had a play field together. But what we looked at doing is we're doing Celts. It's a Scottish theme. So we looked at all things that we knew about Scotland, and Damien's got a Scottish background, so that helped quite a lot. So that's where the Highland Games came out, going through those events of the Highland Games. but also if you look at Scottish history, it's very much about clans and the clans fighting each other. So we want to really incorporate some of that Scottish heritage and history into the game as well. So there's some really great stories like Lady of the Lake and the clan battles that we've incorporated into that as a mode. So we use that history or information about Scotland to drive how the modes are going to work and what they do. Yeah, the reality too of the design, it really hasn't changed from a physical playfield perspective much from the Whitewood at all. I think we went down from five drop targets to four drop targets and I might have made a slight adjustment to maybe the position of one or two things but fundamentally all of the components that are in that play field now is what was in the whitewood for Texas So it been fortunate in that regard that it at least been static enough that Greg's still been working from that consistent place and he's just been able to actually evolve the story way beyond anything I originally even thought of myself. So we've been fortunate in that regard. There hasn't been a lot of changes along the way. Well, I'll tell you one thing I noticed right away when I'm trying to compare, okay, with all the pinball I've played, what does this kind of remind me of? It's very unique, so it really doesn't remind me of any specific game. You know, right off the bat, you can pick your clan, and there are four clans. By the way, when you buy the game, you can actually have a clan of your own. You will have your name actually in this game, which I think is so cool. Yeah, so there's a get your name in the game option, and as you said, when you start, you first choose one of four clans that you want to compete as, either in the Highland Games or to battle other clans against. And one of those can be used. So as it cycles through the clans, it can be calling out your surname. We'll also put your surname on the back glass. So it's got Celts, clan, you, or your company or your business or whatever you want it to be. We'll also include in the light show your tartan. So if you actually do have some form of Scottish heritage and you actually have a clan-coloured tartan, we'll include that as well as your coat of arms or shield. Or you could just make up your colours if you wanted. We'll make up a tartan for you. Well, think about the video game world where you create your own avatar and stuff. That's very, very cool. Now you're going to have your own, first of all, name, your call-out, your own tartan, I guess. My mum's parents are Scottish, too, so we actually do have a tartan. A lot of people, there's a lot of people that have ties back either to Scotland or Ireland. You've got to remember the Celts weren't just the Scots. I mean, everyone tends to associate them with the Scots the most, but it was a lot of nations there. It was the Scots and the Irish and even some Britons. So the Celtics and the Celtic period was quite vast, really. That's cool for the homeowner and collector having your own. Listen, that's a pretty big deal to have your name on a game. But I like that you said the location too, and I was talking to your wife, Georgia, about that too. So you've got maybe a big rival. You could have a clan where you could attack somebody you don't like maybe. Well, sports are a real big thing, right? And in this case, the clan, or you could play as your own clan. There's just so many different options. I liked it from the owner perspective or the location perspective, too. There's a lot you can do there. So again, I've been in your office, and I kind of saw this to-do list and the flow chart, if you will, of the priorities, obviously, with TPF coming up. But I don't even know where you start for some of this. And I do know where you started because I've watched your videos. but there's just so much to do that I'm looking at this game that it's only been a year and it's all complete and amazing and there's something, a big, big, big reveal we're going to talk about here in a little bit. But, I mean, where do you go? I know you farmed out the artwork and it's beautiful. Yep, correct. So we did a design challenge to get an artist on board to do all of the art package. Greg obviously came on board to do all of the games, rules and the programming. I also outsource to a local musician to do all of the sound and the call-outs and special effects. I can't believe that's original music. It's so well done. Yeah, it's phenomenal. And as we said, there's a number of modes, and each mode has a different tune, a different song. All of our multi-balls have different songs. And, yeah, they sound fantastic. Like, he's done an amazing job. He's a really talented muso, and he's done a fantastic job with the music in the game. and I also outsource to another local chap that's been responsible for actually application of the artwork. So basically the printing for the cabinets and the back glass that we're using, which is also a custom innovative thing that we've introduced and all of those sites. So yeah, there's a lot of things in pinball and I've obviously had to understand and go through all of them, but there's no way that I had the skill set all the time and time's been the biggest thing that's driven a lot of the decisions in this process to do everything. And so I've been lucky that I've been able to either have people find me or I've found other people that are just very well aligned with the goals we're trying to achieve and also incredibly good at what they do. So we've had a little bit of a lining of the planets, to be honest. Well, you're in a good country, too, where the pinball growth is huge. But also, again, people like to see this success story. You probably, when you were at Expo, watched a few of the homebrew games, and certainly they weren't planned to be mass-produced like you are with Kelts. But it's the same process. Where do you start? And you have to do everything. You're starting with a blank canvas. And the timelines, figuring out that, has that been an area where people have helped deal with? Like, okay, before you do this, you better do this, or else you're going to have to backtrack? Not really. I mean, probably later as we've gotten closer to Expo and as there's been more moving parts with obviously Greg being involved with COAT and that we've made more of an effort to, yeah, do a bit more of a project plan and work out what needs to be achieved. But no, at the start, it was just simply a case of me understanding what the big picture was, which was, you know, we've got to build a pinball machine. And because I was having to learn everything, it was just biting off each chunk as I went. It's like, okay, well, I need to know how to do X. So I sat down and figured out how to do X and then I moved on to Y and moved on to Z. So again, to me, it all seemed fairly logical, the order that it needed to go in, because I couldn't flip a play field until I cut a play field, and then I couldn't put code in it until I had control systems. So it sort of logically leads you down a path by itself anyway. And for you, Greg, is there always things to do, or is there times where you have to wait? I guess it's very involved with code, so I would imagine it's not like you're going, come on, Damien, let's get going. Yeah, look, it's been nonstop for 12 months now. So, you know, it's going through sort of different versions. And, you know, we had Highland Games ready at TPS, but it was a very simplified version. Obviously, we've been improving those modes throughout the next 10 months. But then it's been adding other multiballs and, you know, adding more modes as we've been trying to develop the game and the game code and the rules. Do you have a favourite mode so far Oh probably Haggis Multiball seems to be It probably my favorite The music is great and I not the greatest player in the world so it's a fairly easy multi-ball to get in the game. So I like to hammer that one and have a bit of a dance around the tune and try and score some jackpots.

14:17

When you talk about those kind of things, that's what everyone does, big or small. I mean, you're going to find things. But what I see as a player stepping up and putting money into a machine or thinking about buying a machine, I look at it and the things that jump out to me, first of all, beautiful art package that we talked about. The colors are great. Great lighting and GI, too. That's very important. And for a guy who is still pretty new to pinball, how did you know to do that? Yeah, well, it's funny. Again, coming from a position of no real recent history, I guess I had no preconceptions about what you did or didn't do with a pinball. pinball machine so something that was clearly obvious to me was sidelighting the cabinet to shine down on the play field itself so it might have been a bit of combination of i might have been probably a little bit light on in actually accommodating just general gi in the first place but that combined with as i said we've done a number of different things with this particular machine and one of them is yeah we have routed out the sides of the cabinets and implemented led strips that we actually can in the cab yeah in the cab and they're all individually addressable so they actually become part of the light show so as we say run a sweep of lights up the playfield as you complete a mode it will actually also go up the lights on the side of the cabinet and we can change each light individually and do all those sorts of things so as a player and i think even some of the greatest players ever keith elwyn i've heard even say this too is you don't want to have to look up a lot. Now, first of all, if you do look up, you're going to see a beautiful LCD screen on the back glass, but there's the same one on the lower playfield, a seven-inch screen too. That means a lot, especially for you, Greg, where we're trying to figure out your modes. Yeah, that's right. So it's a little bit of extra work because every screen gets doubled. We have to have something being displayed on the back box and directions being displayed on the playfield screen as well but it is very useful and and uh we've we've actually had a lot of trial and error trying to get that playfield screen right because what we want that to be is something that you can look at quickly as you're playing get the information you need and really not have to focus on anything on there but just it just is really obviously showing you what you need to know for that mode or that multi-ball or for whatever point in the game you're at to help you give direction so that you can complete what you need to do so you've got some big big news that really is a game changer in pinball and I thank you for sharing it on pinball profile a lot of people if you check on the forums you'll see people concerned with things like dimpling chipping and pooling haggis pinball has solved that issue do you want to explain this big reveal uh yes so when we first started to manufacture I guess I probably followed the same paths as all the other manufacturers do and we produce in our prototype machines typical playfield construction. And we've suffered the same problems that everybody's talking about at the moment, which is exactly that. It's dimpling and it's pooling. We're not chipping yet, but chipping usually comes after pooling in a period of time. So I wanted to resolve that, and I saw that as a big thing, and I wanted to come up with a way to have that as a non-issue moving forward. So what I did is I sat down and I worked with some very clever people, and we've come up with a new hybrid substrate for our playfields. It's actually a combined plywood and acrylic top. So it is 9mm plywood and 4.5mm acrylic with a cast printed substrate in between. They are chemically and mechanically bonded and what it results now in is no dimpling, no pooling, no chipping ever. I'm seeing it firsthand. In fact, I'm going to walk over right now with a hammer in hand, all right? And you'll see this on haggispinball.com. You'll see this live at TPF. I'm sorry for the loud noise here.

19:20

Assuming the little 3D printed acrylic actuator that I built last, I might just let it keep going until it hits a million. But, yeah, that was just to prove and to make sure that this surface is scratch resistance, which it is. It is. Yep, and it leaves no marks, no swirls. So that combination of product, we think, will mean that you will end up with a play field that will look the same way it does when you take it out of the box in 10 or 20 years' time. That is so important for people putting money into a pinball machine. People want to think about, will it be able to last over a lot of plays? Will it be able to stand up? I have a pristine collection. Will this wear and tear? You've got no worries with this. None. Yeah, it was important because, as I said, we... I know people that buy machines and, heaven forbid, play them. Yeah. They don't play them because they can't... It's art. Well, this is art that you can play. Yeah, well, look, as I said, I went through the process of understanding and working out how to manufacture, I guess, a traditional play field, and that's what we had done. And I was suffering the exact same problems that every other manufacturer is suffering. We know how we can resolve the pooling issue, but the reality of the dimpling issue is still a large reality. And look, like most things, I suppose it's predominantly a commercial reality that it's a problem because if you wanted to spend 10 or 20 times the cost of manufacture for a playfield, I'm sure we could resolve it. But it's just not financially viable because people then wouldn't want to buy it. So I needed to come up with a solution that meant I could still produce a playfield of that quality within the price bracket that we have the pinball machine set at. So impressive. I mean, what was that like when you first saw that? I was really, really impressed, especially the color quality in what he's been able to do. I think it actually looks even better again than what we had last time. So it really pops out. Those colors are really vivid. So, yeah, I really love it. Boy, I'm very excited for everyone to see this at TPF. And, again, go to haggispinball.com, watch the videos. I'm here firsthand. I'm not paid by Haggis. I promote things that I like in pinball, all right? If I don't like it, I usually don't promote it, all right? And let me just say, I'm a big fan of what you're doing, of you personally, of your passion, of your team. And I want to see this succeed because I can only imagine where this can go from here. And I already like what you've got on the table here. I know everyone at TPF will like it. Boy, I love that the community is kind of reaching out, helping you. And it's working, man. It's tough. I'm so proud of you, but I'm like, wow, you've put a lot into this. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it has been a – I think I was a bit fortunate time-wise when I started this that I was able to actually allocate the time needed to do it. But, yeah, I think even I might have slightly underestimated exactly how much work there was because it's been, as I said, almost 18 months solid slog. And it's predominantly seven days a week, 10 hours a day, and it has been really for most of this time. So I think, as George has probably said in the past, if I get my hands or my hooks into something, it's usually all or nothing. It's sort of go hard or go home type scenario. And this has been no different. I never did this to come second, I guess, is a phrase. I saw a nice phrase the other day where someone had written that I didn't come all this way just to come all this way. That's a good point. It's about making sure we get it over the line so we can then get on to pinball number two. Yeah. Well, I have all confidence that that will be the case. and also too you know if i'm talking to north americans here right now and they're listening and you know how we're all passionate for something like spooky pinball and and the emory family and how we all enjoy chuck's passion and what he's done in that small community we want to see charlie and spooky succeed and to me this is very similar this is the same kind of passion i have for haggis pinball and I know my friends feel the same way too here in Australia so again excited thank you for sharing this so we're going to see you at TPF but for those that aren't going people want to get in touch with you how do we do so okay we're also attending MGC this year because it's the week after oh perfect yeah so you're all the way across well we figured we were all the way there so it seems crazy we're gonna we're gonna grab a car and then do the drive over three days I think or something like that road trip road trip and we got our little fellow with us we got our four-year-old some with us as well ed so he'll be joining us as well so yeah we'll be at mgc as well as tpf this year other than that you can get me on haggispinball.com and get us on all the social media feeds i've got a site just about everywhere i think so you can send me a message in any number of ways yeah and uh really consider making the purchase for kelts let the games begin because you're going to have a unique game you're going to have a game that lasts you're going to have a game that has your own clan in it if you really want and why not i would do it me too thank you for sharing uh this time here at haggis pinball and appreciate you uh showing me this the hammer test yeah thanks appreciate uh appreciate the airtime jeff this has been your pinball profile you can find our group on facebook we're also on twitter at pinball profile emails pinball profile at gmail.com please subscribe on your favorite pod catcher and check us out on instagram at pinball profile. And check out HaggisPinball.com. You'll love it. Kelts, let the games begin. I'm Jeff Teolas.