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The Super Awesome Pinball Show - S01 E20

The Super Awesome Pinball Show·podcast_episode·2h 34m·analyzed·Dec 4, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Anniversary episode with Ed Vanderveen discussing TPF 2021 uncertainty and pandemic-era pinball market dynamics.

Summary

The Super Awesome Pinball Show celebrates its first anniversary (Episode 20) with co-hosts Christopher Franchi and Dr. Pin (Christian Lund), joined by guest Ed Vanderveen. The episode features reflections on a year of interviews with major industry figures, discussion of the uncertain status of Texas Pinball Festival 2021 due to COVID-19, Ed's retirement lifestyle and personal pinball collecting updates, and commentary on pandemic-driven pricing surges in the pinball market. The hosts discuss potential Twippy award recognition and pinball's rising cultural visibility in media and entertainment.

Key Claims

  • Texas Pinball Festival 2021 status uncertain; decision point set for January 4th regarding go/no-go determination

    high confidence · Ed Vanderveen states 'January 4th is kind of our line in the sand' and discusses vaccine rollout and state reopening as decision factors

  • If TPF 2021 doesn't happen, the festival will be postponed to 2022, not 2023 or later

    high confidence · Ed: 'if it doesn't happen in March, it'll go till 2022' and 'TPF-2022 will absolutely happen'

  • TPF organizers have minimal financial exposure for 2021 due to limited spending and vendor cooperation

    high confidence · Ed: 'we didn't spend any money this year we spent almost no money' and 'All the seed money is in escrow'

  • The Super Awesome Pinball Show has interviewed major industry figures including George Gomez, Gary Stern, Keith Elwin, Jack Danger, and others over its first year

    high confidence · Hosts list 'Joe Camenco, Charlie Emery twice, Scott Denisey, Jersey Jack Winary, Todd McCullough, George Gomez, Joe Balser, Eric Menier, Ed Robertson, Jack Danger, Zombie Yeti, Greg Ferris, Keith Elwin'

  • Pandemic-driven pinball pricing surge continues; distributors report difficulty keeping inventory in stock

    high confidence · Ed: 'prices are crazy... people aren't going on vacations... they're stuck at home... they're buying pinball machines. They can't keep games in stock'

  • European pinball buyers face 25% tariff on top of base prices, exacerbating affordability issues

    high confidence · Ed: 'if you're in Europe, you're doubly hosed because you've got that 25% tariff on top of everything else'

  • Jersey Jack Pinball received significant BBC coverage discussing Guns N' Roses pinball game

    high confidence · Christian: 'Jersey Jack Winery was on the BBC... He had a whole segment on there where he was talking about Guns N' Roses'

  • Pinball references are increasingly appearing in mainstream commercial and television media

Notable Quotes

  • “January 4th is kind of our line in the sand. If by January 4th, you know, things are happening, vaccines are going out, people are starting to feel good... then we'll go forward. But if it's not, I can't risk it.”

    Ed Vanderveen @ mid-content — Establishes the critical decision deadline for TPF 2021 viability

  • “It's the Texas Pinball Festival. We're not going to do a half-assed show. It's going to be all or nothing.”

    Ed Vanderveen @ late-content — Indicates commitment to full-scale event or cancellation rather than scaled-down alternative

  • “People aren't going on vacations. They're not going to Disney World, and they're stuck at home, and so they're buying pinball machines. They can't keep games in stock.”

    Ed Vanderveen @ mid-late content — Explains pandemic-driven surge in pinball machine demand and pricing

  • “TPF-2022 will absolutely happen. No, we're in no danger of folding. I can't imagine a scenario that would make us fold.”

    Ed Vanderveen @ late-content — Reassures community that festival will continue regardless of 2021 outcome

  • “If the super awesome pinball show doesn't win, that shit is rigged. Is it rigged? We're going to call for re-accounts?”

    Ed Vanderveen @ early-late content — Humorous reference to Twippy award competition and show confidence

  • “This is not your grandfather's pinball machine. There's, like, Bluetooth enabled, and there's a huge screen and all of these lights.”

    Jersey Jack representative (quoted by Christian) @ end-content — Shows modern pinball positioning in mainstream media discourse

  • “We've made it a whole freaking year, my friend. And who would have thought we would have got to episode 20 and an entire year of podcasts down.”

    Christopher Franchi @ early-content — Reflects on podcast milestone achievement

  • “It's kind of like a frozen time capsule from 2020. I mean, we were, what, 12 days out or a week out from the show happening.”

Entities

Ed VanderveenpersonChristopher FranchipersonDr. Pin (Christian Lund)personGeorge GomezpersonGary SternpersonTexas Pinball Festival (TPF)eventJersey Jack PinballcompanyChicago Gaming Companycompany

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: The Super Awesome Pinball Show celebrates first anniversary with major industry guest appearances

    high · Episode 20 anniversary special features Ed Vanderveen and Gary Stern interviews; year of interviews with George Gomez, Keith Elwin, Jack Danger, and others documented

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Pinball cultural relevance increasing; mainstream media references and celebrity coverage generating industry momentum

    medium · Christian: 'every time I turn on the TV, I see some pinball reference' and Jersey Jack Pinball featured on BBC discussing Guns N' Roses game

  • ?

    event_signal: Texas Pinball Festival 2021 status remains highly uncertain; decision point established for January 4, 2021

    high · Ed Vanderveen: 'January 4th is kind of our line in the sand... if it's not... we'll go till 2022'

  • $

    market_signal: Secondary market pricing for collectible toppers (Batman SLE topper) shows pandemic-era speculation premium

    medium · Christian: 'the Batman SLE topper was sold by itself for $3,000 on eBay' characterized as 'pandemic prices'

  • $

    market_signal: Pandemic-driven surge in pinball machine demand and pricing continues; distributors report inventory difficulties

    high · Ed: 'people aren't going on vacations... they're stuck at home, and so they're buying pinball machines. They can't keep games in stock'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.463

0:00
Ah, 2-0-0-1-1 Avenue, here we are, sir. Hello? Anybody there? Borgie! Hey, buddy, open up! Lord! Can't you see me? What the fuck? He just walked away.
0:37
Anyone? Hello? We're like, uh, closed or something. Oh, there's George. Hey, George! What the shit? Am I not knocking loud enough?
0:49
George! Where's my keys? George! Gomez! Hello? He looked right at me. Go away. Whoa, is that Gary pulling out of the lot? Gary! Hey Gary! Goddammit! I guess Mr. Invisible will just drive home another four hours. Thanks. Yeah, I think I got the hint.
1:21
Hey, who's gonna reimburse my turnpike money? I'm sorry So sorry Please accept My apology The following is an ad-hoc radio production. He It's the Super Awesome Pinball Show The extra Awesome First anniversary Super special That's right, it's time for your favorite pinball show With your favorite hosts, pinball artist Christopher Branchi And Dr. P and Cell Christian Lai Don't you know?
2:19
Ain't no one's ever too satisfied. Ooh, yeah. Don't you know? Also, a rotating gallery of bonus co-hosts to spice things up. I'm satisfied.
2:35
Sponsored by Chicago Gaming Company, home of your favorite top-quality pinball remakes like Monster Bash, Medieval Badness, and more. Visit chicago-gaming.com. And by Cointaker.com, Distributors of new in-box pinball machines, mods, accessories, LEDs, and much more. That's coin-taker.com. Also by backgalleycreations.com. Makers of the most amazing pinball mods, black pearl pinballs, and the easiest live playfield sports system. That's backgalleycreations.com.

medium confidence · Christian: 'every time I turn on the TV, I see some pinball reference in some commercial or TV show'

Ed Vanderveen @ mid-content — Describes preparedness state and how COVID-19 halted event planning mid-stride

Cointaker.com
company
Back Alley Creationscompany
Keith Elwinperson
Jack Dangerperson
Charlie Emeryperson
Zombie Yetiperson
Guns N' Roses Pinballgame
Data East Star Trekgame
Mrs. Pinnperson
The Twippiesevent
Elviragame
Munstersgame

community_signal: Ed Vanderveen transitioned from active Texas Pinball Festival leadership role to retirement status

high · Ed discusses retirement, split time between Texas and Florida, reduced pinball involvement except when visiting collectors

  • $

    market_signal: European buyers face compounded pricing pressure from 25% tariff on top of base machine costs

    high · Ed: 'if you're in Europe, you're doubly hosed because you've got that 25% tariff on top of everything else'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community concerns about TPF 2021 cancellation being actively addressed by organizers to maintain confidence in festival's future

    medium · Ed: 'A lot of people are freaking out that that may be the case, and so that's great that you're alleviating those fears... TPF-2022 will definitely happen'

    • 3:04
    Hello all you pinball rock stars out there. Thanks so much for listening and welcome to episode number 20, our first anniversary special. My name is Christopher Franchi, and we have an amazing show lined up for you today. Not only are we reuniting with old friends, including the grand poobah of pinball, Mr. Gary Stern, and a very special third co-host, but we've got all the latest news and rumors, plus our past few weeks in pinball, all this and more, along with the best co-host money can buy, Dr. Finn himself, Christian Lund. Happy anniversary, PodCal. Happy anniversary, Franchi. We've made it a whole freaking year, my friend. And who would have thought we would have got to episode 20 and an entire year of podcasts down. We did what they say can't be done. That's right, man. We got a long way to go and a short time to get there. Sorry, singing some Snorky and the Bandits. Yeah, no singing on this podcast, my friend. It's... You condemn others. You cannot do it yourself. That's correct. Yeah. No, but yeah, it's kind of hard to believe, man. We've had a ton of fun. We've interviewed the who's who of the pinball industry. And we were just looking over at the list of people we've interviewed over the last year, and it's kind of surreal. You want to try and go tit for tat? Yeah. All right, let's see who you can remember. All right, Joe Camenco. Charlie Emery twice. Scott Denisey. Jersey Jack Winary. Todd McCullough. George Gomez. Joe Balser. Eric Menier. Ed Robertson. Jack Danger. Zombie Yeti. Greg Ferris. Keith Elwin. The Paper Flock guys. I'm running out. Mr. Gary Stern well that's today that's an impressive list hell of a list man and we've given out some good prizes we had a foosball coffee table we gave out to Miss Laura Fraley we've got art prints hundreds of dollars in gift cards and some super awesome pinball show swag today we're giving away on our anniversary special a brand new car to anyone who will tattoo our faces on their ass no we're not we talked about that I didn't know that we screwed up. Now we're not doing that. All right. Yeah, man. We've also had a series of awesome guest hosts, including my wife, Mrs. Pinn, Jeff Parsons, Bruce Nightingale, Poor Man's Crew, Matt Reisterer, and a bunch of other fabulous people. But we can't do a show without a great guest host. And there's no one we'd rather have on than the OG, the curly to our Mo and Larry, and someone who has become a great friend over the last year that we've done this podcast, even though he's not on as regularly as he used to be.
    5:35
    Please welcome to the show, Mr. Ed Vanderveen. Heyo! Hello! Hey! Heyo! There he is. What's up, man? How are you? How does that sound? You sound good. Are you using your wife's stuff? Yeah, she just got like a little earpiece and a boom mic that comes around to the front when she takes tech calls, so that's what I got. So that's what it sounds like. So if it's echoey or tinny, I can't help you. How are you guys? We are well. The man who puts the fire in. Retire.
    6:08
    I'm trying to. Trying to? Dude, I've been watching your exploits. I mean, you could write a book on, like, fancy tropical drinks and fancy foods and burgers and nifty locations. You're jelly. You live the dream. I am jelly. Kim has become a mixologist also in her spare time. So she found this cool app that if you go and you download this app and you tell it what alcohol you have, it will tell you what you can make.
    6:37
    That's cool. It's pretty cool. So, you know, it'll give you like a whole list of different shit that you can make if you tell it what kind of booze you got. Well, you've become a master chef, man. I've seen all of your meals you've cooked for her, and it seems like you're whipping up some fancy shit. It's not that fancy, but, yeah, I do make. Hey, you know what? She brings in the dough-bidge, and I make breakfast and do laundry, and it affords me to just kind of hang out and do what I want to do. A sprig of parsley goes a long way, doesn't it? It does. Voila! I'm seeing a pop-tart.
    7:09
    Put a little wedge on there. Garlic butter in a sprig of parsley. Voila! Where are you right now? In Florida? Yeah, I'm in Florida. I'm in Bradenton. We're going home. We're actually leaving to go home on Friday afternoon. we got new floors being put in the house back in Texas for the holidays. Are you driving home? Yeah, we have our RV here. We drove the RV to Florida, so we're going to drive home. The show will be available for listening pleasure on Friday, so something to listen to on the way home. Perfect. Yeah, the interview with Gary was pretty spectacular. It was good. Yeah, it was pretty fun. Well, welcome back to the show, man. We really wanted to get you on here for the anniversary show because you did so much to help get this off the ground before your retirement. So it seemed fitting that you join us and celebrate a year in of the Super Awesome Pinball Show. Well, I don't know what I did to help. I didn't really do anything but to be on the show. But, yeah, I'm happy to be on. You're the third stooge. Yeah, man. All right. If there's no belly to poke, then you don't have the three stooges. Speaking of belly, that's one bad thing. Man, I've gotten so fat. I'm telling you. You know, I was fat before, but, man, I gained another 10 pounds probably. That's what you do in retirement, man. You don't have to slim down in retirement. I don't want to be retired two years. I want to be retired 30 years. I hear you do. I hear that. All right, we've got a couple of questions for you, man. So, you know, we are looking back over the year that we just had and the Super Awesome Pinball Show, and, you know, you were here for a huge chunk of that. So do you have any memories of the show that kind of stand out as positive, you know, the most fun that we did or that we had? Positive? No.
    8:57
    No. It was all pretty much. No, no. It was all fun. No, it was all fun when we had, you know, Ed Robertson on and Zombie Eddie. And we had some good guests come on the show that I feel very fortunate to have been part of and just get to talk with you guys. Actually, the best part of the show for me was the stuff that probably didn't make it onto the show, was just the cutting up and the things that probably shouldn't have been said. But no, that was probably the best part, just cutting up before the show and catching up with each other and seeing how everybody's week was and then getting into the interviews and talking pinball. It's always fun. No, we were talking the other day about how much we left on the cutting room floor of many of the interviews we did, just because we couldn't air it. Either it was too out there or it was just confidential.
    9:49
    I think there's a few tantrums in there, too. Absolutely. One of these days, it's going to be the lost files or the lost tapes.
    10:00
    There's definitely enough gold in some of those tapes to certainly embarrass all of us. Oh, hell yeah. what uh what have you been up to since you you we haven't had you on and you've been living the retirement dream what's a day in the life of ed vanderbeen well you know the whole covid thing kind of has changed everybody's norm you know kim and i are very lucky that i don't have to change too much i mean we just kind of bounce back and forth between texas and florida and when i'm in texas i do a lot of pinball stuff and when i'm in florida i do a lot of nothing i just do a lot of going to the beach and hanging out, and Kim works. And we brought our basset hound this time. We're in Florida right now, so we brought Winnie with us. She's got cancer, I didn't tell you. She got diagnosed with a pneumo. So back in May, the veterinarians told us she had, you know, maybe two to four months. But she's hanging on. She's still acting good. So she's spoiled now. We take her everywhere. She gets to sleep on the furniture, and she gets to sleep on the bed, and she gets to do whatever she wants. So we've been doing that. And I did go pick up a super nice missile command while I was here in Florida for a buddy of mine. But, yeah, I don't do a whole lot of pinball stuff unless I visit somebody that has pinball here in Florida. But back in Texas, I got all kinds of stuff going on with pinball as far as my own games and stuff. Do you want to hit up that on your last two weeks of pinball, or do you want to just try it for you? It's been like your last six months. Yeah, it'll be my last six months of pinball. Of course, I didn't write anything down, so I'll have to just kind of wing it, which is kind of how I do everything. I'll just wing it. That's cool. Well, you guys can have two. Oh, man. What haven't we been doing? And it's been busy, like every two weeks doing the show and having to find what guest is going to come on and then our co-hosts and then writing all the questions. It's just, as you know, man, the reason why you kind of stepped away. It's work. It's been a little time consuming lately, too. I think we're trying to do that drive where we push out a bunch of shows and then it'll give us a chance to take a break in the back end, you know? Sure. So it's been a lot of work the past couple of weeks, pretty much. You guys have got to be excited because I saw Mr. Patterson just put out the Twippy pre-questionnaire type stuff. I know I didn't see Pinball Podcast on there, but I know that the Twippies are coming up. So, you know. Oh, it sounds like you guys are in the front runners. It's the solution, man. I hope. Don't tell other podcasters that because you might get fired up. But we can start calling their grandparents. Come on, you got to win. Well, I'm going to tell you right now, if the super awesome pinball show doesn't win, that shit is rigged. Is it rigged? We're going to call for re-accounts? There's some ballot stuffing going on?
    12:31
    No, we'd love to be nominated, you know, as they say. But I'm going into this with no expectations. I don't know about Frangie, but what are we? I have high expectations because I want Ed to come up with us because he was part of the show. Hell yeah. But I have the feeling it's going to be one of those, you know, send in a tape things again. I hope not. But, yeah, it's, you know, and we'll get into all that. We'll talk TPF and the future of pinball shows and stuff for 2021. Why don't you tell us? What's the update? Everyone asks me that, and I keep telling them, I don't know. I wish I could say TPF is, I mean, it's been a go, but who would have ever predicted that this COVID thing would have gone as far as it has? I mean, it's just wiped out everything. Every event, we're kind of just holding on for a Christmas miracle. You know, let's talk about it. What do you guys, what do I do? I've asked this question, and I'm going to send out a questionnaire and a survey kind of, you know, mid-December, I think, just to get an idea. But, obviously, you know, there's no denying that pinball is one of the most germ-swapping, you know, things there is. There's just no denying that. I mean, I'd love to say, well, we're going to social distance and we're going to wear masks. And I can't even get people to wear their wristbands. I mean, do you think I'm going to wear their masks and shit, you know? My opinion for what it's worth is that I would cancel it. It's only four months away. I don't think people are going to be comfortable enough. Even if they say, okay, and they open the floodgates, people still are going to be like, eh, I don't know. And there's those assholes who don't want to wear the mask. And so they're going to infect everybody else. And it's just, you know, there's people who don't want to take the vaccine because they think that they're going to get injected with some GPS device or whatever. So I just think it's too soon. I think March, people are still going to be scratching their head. And I mean, the worst thing that you could do would be to put all this money into this thing and throw it and have 40 people show up. And that's exactly right. I'm still not prepared to say we're done. We're going to hold out and see what happens. You know, we now got two companies that are going to do vaccines. I don't just want to throw in the towel. I mean, I mean, we need to put our best foot forward, but you're absolutely right. The last thing we want to do is spend the last of our seed money for the show and have it all just crumble apart around us. But we are going to give our best effort, try to make the best decisions for everybody. I hate to push it, But like I said, January 4th is kind of our line in the sand. If by January 4th, you know, things are happening, vaccines are going out, people are starting to feel good, governors are opening the states up, or at least it's very apparent that by March that things are happening and moving and we're going to get back to some kind of normal, then we'll go forward. But if it's not, I can't risk it. And I don't think anybody would fault us for that. I mean, I think we don't want a half-assed show. We don't want a lesser show. And, yeah, I don't know what else to do. I mean, we're hoping and praying, but we'll see, you know, come January what happens. Like, right now, Collin County, where Frisco is, their website still has, like, a 250-person, you know, maximum for events, for an event. They've got, you know, a recommendation of no more than 200. So, I mean, Texas is not really locked down, per se. They still have a lot of mask recommendations and stuff. And, yeah, I don't want to be the mask police. I don't want to have to do that. You can't space games six feet apart and expect people to stand six feet apart. So right now, like I said, we're not going to throw in the towel, but we're just going to kind of sit and wait. And when it's time to call it, we'll call it, hopefully with enough time for everybody to do what they have to do. But if there's a Christmas miracle, I think we could pull it off in two and a half months. Yeah, that would be my question is, have you done any prep work for this? Have you called guests? Have you lined anything up? Or are you just waiting to start that process until you kind of know if you're going ahead or not? Well, the guests, now as far as like Sylvester McCoy, you know, the celebrity, you know, they could, what I call the big celebrity guests, even though they're kind of, you know, B celebrity guests. But Sylvester McCoy, he's already reached out and said that he would come if we have the show, but that was several months ago. I don't know how he feels now. And it's my understanding that because he's in the UK that they're still, they're not even allowed to travel. They're not allowed to do anything. As far as our celebrity guests in the pinball world, well, I mean, Mr. Franchise, he's already, Chris has already kind of given me his answer, so I guess there won't be any for that phone call coming. coming in December. But the rest of them... Well, I didn't say I wouldn't go. I'm kidding. The rest of them, no. But, yeah, if they're not comfortable coming, and that's the other thing, I mean, there's so many cogs in the wheel or so many gears that even if the world opens up and my Christmas miracle happens and I call Steve Ritchie and Mark Ritchie and Dennis Nordman and Chris Franchi and Greg Perez and, you know, all the people, Joe Balser, and I ask them if they are like, well, you know, we're still not quite ready to go, I got to have everybody. I'm not going to have a half show. I just don't want to do it. And that's not fair to the people who have weekend passes that, you know, that allowed us to roll the show over. It's not fair to, it's just not right. So we're either going to have a full show or we're not. So let's say that you do delay it to next year, or is there an option to delay it later on in this year? Is it pretty much just, uh, if it's not in March, then it's going next year. Yeah. If it's not, if it doesn't happen in March, it'll, it'll go till 2022. We've talked about postponing it, but the problem in Texas, you know, you don't want to have a pinball show during the summertime because it is hot as balls. Yeah, good point. I mean, it is. It's 100 and something degrees every day, and people are trying to move pinball machines, and just putting them in the back of your pickup truck, unless you cover them really well, you're going to, you know, it melts all the plastic and stuff, so. And people are on summer vacations and things like that, so that doesn't really work. If we move it to the fall, now we're kind of overlapping with Chicago Expo, the Houston show, you know, there's other shows. You know, there's a pinball show scheduled almost every weekend somewhere in America. There just is. I don't want to be that guy that says, well, it doesn't matter when TPF is because people will come to TPF. But I'm not going to compete with Expo and the Houston show and some of the other ones. And spring is kind of our time. I mean, we like to be the show that kind of kicks off the pinball season per se. I hate that COVID has run so long. I mean, who would have ever thought that it would do this? But it is what it is. And when you asked me if there was a lot of planning involved, other than lining up some guests, I mean, really, it's kind of like a frozen time capsule from 2020. I mean, we were, what, 12 days out or a week out from the show happening. So we kind of still have our databases and our vendors and everything is kind of still in place. Other than, you know, modifying the floor plan and stuff, we're kind of ready to go. I mean, we'll get a new design for the show for 2021 or 2022, if that's what ends up being. But yeah, I mean, we're kind of ready to roll. I mean, nothing has really changed. Everything is still kind of in place and just kind of on hold. I got you, man. So, you know, if you do have to delay to 2022, do you think it's going to be easier this time around? I mean, I know you're not as far into the process as you were last year. Well, of course, yeah. Well, it would be easier because we haven't spent any money and everything is just kind of frozen. All the seed money is in escrow and all the vendors and everybody that has paid weekend passes has been very cool and just said, you know, make the right choice, do what you got to do. And if we got to roll, we'll roll it to 2022. So, yeah, it'll definitely be easier. There won't be that initial stress. And I think the hotel is kind of, we met with the hotel. And they, of course, you know, they want us to have the show. They're ready for 2021. And so we were meeting with them and asking some questions. Well, have they had any events? And they said, oh, yeah, we've had some events. And I said, really? What have you had? They said, well, we had a dancing conference. And I said, well, how many people? They said, well, I think there's going to be about 1,000 people. What? And I said, well, that doesn't really compare. And they don't know either. I mean, they're doing their best, too. The city of Frisco, they want to get things back going again. The hotel wants to get things back going again. But, yeah, they haven't had any events the size of the Texas Pinball Festival. They told us that the Texas Pinball Festival was their biggest event of the year. So they really don't want to lose us. They want us to come back. So if we have to roll, I think they'll work with us without too much problem.
    20:24
    So we can safely say that, sadly, if TPF doesn't happen in 2021, you're not going to fold like replay effects and all that sort of stuff you will you will be back in 2022 you're not going anywhere absolutely yeah absolutely like i said we didn't spend any money this year we spent almost no money other than just i mean we have some monthly fees for for software and stuff and you know the website and we have a store we keep all of our stuff in storage but it's that's all minimal so that's so yeah we have we have the seed money and and the volunteers and stuff, it's going to happen. TPF-22 will absolutely happen. Well, whether or not TPF-2021 happens or not, TPF-2022 will definitely happen. No, we're in no danger of folding. I can't imagine a scenario that would make us fold. Good, good. We can't lose something else. Yeah, that's the thing. A lot of people are freaking out that that may be the case, and so that's great that you're alleviating those fears. Yeah, absolutely. People don't have to worry. We're not folding, so there will be a TPF-2022. for sure. You know, I say that and then there'll be, you know, some other things, some other plague or something. A meteor hit Texas today. Yeah, exactly. Wiping out the Frisco area. God damn it. I'm not prepared to pull the plug on TPF 2021 by any means. And I know there's a lot of people that would come no matter what. I mean, it could be the zombie apocalypse and I'll have people that will be like, no, we're going. And that's awesome. They're like moon suits. Yeah. And we love everybody for that, but I really need a, you know, we want everybody. We don't want, you know, our international people not to be able to come. We don't want, you know, we want everybody, especially the northern states. That's, you know, the home of pinball. We can't have Chicago on lockdown and expect to have, you know, some kind of a pinball show. Not to sidestep all the efforts you make, but it's the people that make the show. And that's exactly right. And so I don't want to, I don't want anyone to, you know, feel like that we don't, you know, we care about everybody in pinball and we want everybody to be there. You know, it's got to be a full show. It's the Texas Pinball Festival. We're not going to do a half-assed show. It's going to be all or nothing. Good man. Hit that theme, bitch.
    22:31
    Let's do some pinball. Game on. Well, for me, I guess it's been the last six months. I'm trying to think what all I've done in pinball. I went camping and I bought a Data East Star Trek. I don't know if you saw those. Oh, the 25th anniversary one? Right, yeah. I hate you. It was kind of funny. A buddy of mine, Mike Lockley, and his wife and Tim and I and Mike's cousin, we all have RVs, so we all decided to go to this place down by Houston called Lost Lagoon. It's kind of like a water park, but just to cut to the chase. Well, Mike was delivering a game to his cousin, and his cousin was, or Mike was delivering a couple of games. While we were down there, like every other pinball nerd, we're searching the Facebook marketplace for whatever area you're in just to kind of see what's for sale. And there's a Data East Star Trek for a good price. So I called the guy, and Mike and I go get it. We bring it back to the campsite. So we set up. Mike had a Big Guns, the Data East Star Trek. We had a VP Cabs Vertigo. And what's the popular golf game that everybody likes to play? Golden Tee. Like Golden Tee, one of those. We had one of those. So we had these four games set up in the middle of the campsite.
    23:49
    Roughing it. It was really cool. Yeah, it was like roughing it. So we're playing. Of course, all the kids are coming by looking, and I'd turn around and go, get off my lawn, and, you know, run along. No, that's not. They came. It was a lot of fun. So we had a good time. Flintstones Arcade. Yeah. Well, yeah, it was a lot of fun. So it was kind of neat. We took some neat pictures. I got my Adam Stanley back finally from my buddy Kevin. It's gorgeous. so it's got all new play fields and side art and it's been completely refurbished i did i painted the i painted my garage floor because i'm getting ready to get you know into the my second game room i have one in the house but the one out in the garage the garage was always just kind of a mess so i finally kind of cleared it uh cleared stuff out and painted the garage floor and painted the walls and i'm kind of arranging games around in there to make it look nice i had an electrician come out and put in some extra outlets that's great i don't know what do you guys been doing I'm just living the dream, man. It sounds awesome that you had shown me a video of your outside garage space that was just packed with games. It was. Well, I had them all. That's when I was painting the floor. So I had them all. It looks, well, it is pretty full, but it looked worse than it really was. So I, like, moved everything to, like, one side of the garage and painted the floor and let it dry and moved everything to, you know, and I had to kind of do it in quarters. So when I had everything kind of jammed into one section, it looked like just a warehouse. But once I try to knock it out again, it looks more acceptable. You can actually walk through the aisles and stuff. I'll get a new video whenever I get it. I want to see it because, you know, it was a kick-ass warehouse. There were some really good kings in there. Yeah, you look at it and you're like, who's got a safecracker just in the middle? What else? I got my Elvira topper that everybody makes fun of. It's awesome. Is it worth it? You loving it? Well, of course.
    25:30
    But I bought a Munster's topper, too. How's your Munster's topper? Does it work all right? Mine does, yes. I bought mine from Hemi, and he tested it before he sent it to me. When I bought it from him, he sent me a message, and he said they have some issues on a couple of them. I guess he took it out of the box and set it up and made sure everything worked and then sent it to me. So, yeah, I haven't. It hasn't messed up, like, in the three times I've played my Munsters since I've put it on there. I don't have one. Did you not get a topper? Do you have a Munsters topper? No, no, I didn't get one. Not because I didn't want one. I just never got around to getting one. All right. We got mine back cool. My Beatles is coming back, finally. I've got the LE, the Munsters LE game. But can you even still get a topper for them? Oh, I don't know. I didn't ask. I think Cointaker has one. They did. It'll be $10,000 by Christmas. I know. Did you see that the Batman SLE topper was sold by itself for $3,000 on eBay? I got one, and I'm like, I'm almost tempted to take it off my premium.
    26:29
    I'm not selling mine. I'm not going to. That's too sweet. That doesn't get enough credit. I still think that's one of the best toppers ever made. That's pandemic prices right there for sure. Yeah. Speaking, I'm sure you all have discussed the pricing in pinball right now. It's just crazy, is it not? It is, man. It's through the roof. And then you factor in that, you know, if you're in Europe, you're doubly hosed because you've got that 25% tariff on top of everything else. But, yeah, prices are crazy. I mean, we keep saying there's a ceiling, but we're never hitting it. Well, not during this pandemic. I've talked to several distributors. My buddy Craig at Fun, he sits there and says, people aren't going on vacations. They're not going to Disney World, and they're stuck at home, and so they're buying pinball machines. They can't keep games in stock. I'm sure if you talk to some of the other distributors, they'll tell you that it's hard for them to keep inventory. And so, yeah, games are expensive right now. It's crazy. It's like nothing I've ever seen before. Yeah, it's a seller's market, and so that's why I'm not buying anything. It is. That's right. But just think, the bubble's going to pop any day now, and then it's going to be a buyer's market. Then I'll be ready and I'll have chance. Well, that's the thing. I mean, people have been saying the bubble's going to burst for the last 10 years, and I don't see it bursting. I mean, people are just, every time I turn on the TV, I see some pinball reference in some commercial or TV show, or I see one in the background. It's super hot right now. We talked to Gary about that, and we also, just today, I saw that Jersey Jack Winery was on the BBC. Yeah. And it was just like, it was, I mean, that's the CNN of Europe. I mean, it was really impressive. He had a whole segment on there where he was talking about Guns N' Roses. And in the background, that really flashy, well-done clip for the game was playing. And if that didn't get people interested in what was going on back there, I don't know what would. He kept telling the woman who was asking him questions, like, this is not your grandfather's pinball machine. There's, like, Bluetooth enabled, and there's a huge screen and all of these lights. And I can see people who watch that getting really excited about pinball and wanting to look into it some more. So that was a huge reach.
    28:33
    And like you said, it's Ray-Ban commercials. Everything is pinball now. But every time you see it on a TV show, like whenever Kim and I are watching some sitcom or something, and they'll have a fairly modern pinball machine on there, and it'll show them playing it, it still does like the bells and chimes. They're playing ding-a-ding-a-ding-a-ding. Some of the sex guys got to update his catalog. Well, I think it's licensing stuff, right? That's exactly what it is because I always have it, you know, changed to some other name or some game. Anyway, so what else? What you got, man? What's been going on with you? My shooter rod and my captain fantastic got all jacked up. And if I held the handle and I wiggled it, like, up and down, like 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock or, you know, 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock, it would go do-do-do. It was like moving around. So, like, if I tried to shoot the ball, it would just hit the side. And they're like, all right, well, something's wrong. So I took it all apart and discovered that there was probably a sleeve or something inside the tube that takes the shooter out from the outside of the game to the inside of the game. So I dialed up my buddy Clay Harrell, the king of pinball techs. Sent him a video, and I showed him how it's moving and all that. He goes, oh, you need this. And he sends me a link, and it's like a plastic sleeve with the outer fitting where the screws go through. So it's like sort of a T-shaped piece. And so I finally got, and I took the thing apart, and I'm like, this is not what I need. So I called them up. EWD40. You know what it was. I don't know. There's people, like, screaming. They're like, you know, no. I was just thinking that in my head. I'm like, what? But Ed knows way more about pinball than me. There's a couple guys that had spilled their drinks and spit it out right when I said that.
    30:10
    There's a plastic sleeve that goes in the tube, but I just need the plastic sleeve. And this piece is, like, this big piece. So I text Clay, and I sent him a picture of the piece, and I sent him a picture of my shooter rod and what's missing. And I said, this is not the piece I need. And he goes, well, that's too bad. What did he say? He said something about me being a big pain in the ass.
    30:33
    What? I'm like, I'm a pain in the ass. Dude, you know, he told me to get a piece. I ordered it, paid five bucks for it, waited for it. Actually, more than five bucks because shipping and all that from Marco. And I don't even need it. And then the worst part was looking at it, and I'm like, what's this little thing here? And it was like a little piece of whatever was once in the tube came out like about two inches down the rod closer to the shooter end. And so I just took that, and I worked the spring, and, you know, I like pulled up, pinched it, and then pushed it. And I kept doing that until I pushed it back into the tube. And then I put it all back together, and it works fine.
    31:09
    Some redneck ingenuity right there, my friend. Yeah, take some of that clay, Harold, you bitch. you pinch it and you move it in and you wiggle it around and there you go yeah so it works like a charm now what Ed doesn't know is in the meantime since we last talked I said it on 5 ball so it's not what cheating no it's not cheating because when I played it as a kid it was on 5 ball and if you play this thing on 5 ball you're going to want to push it off the roof it's so brutal then just take the glass off the top and play nice you know I just hate that damn thing every shot is just off the bumper down the side Off the swing shot, down the middle. Are you ready to get rid of it? No.
    31:49
    Ed's ready to buy it. I hate that damn thing. Oh, man. I like Captain Fantastic. I think it's a good game. The one that always gets me is when the ball goes between the two flippers. Like, on the right, whatever. You can't really cradle it. It's hard to cradle. Yeah, that sucks. That's happened to me a few times. Especially when it comes down real fast and you just get a little piece of it with the right flipper. It shoots to the left. just nick it and get it away from me, and you hit the flipper, and he goes, shoot, rip it in the both of them, you're like, fuck it, god damn it, yeah, that thing, but, you know, a game like that makes you work harder, you don't want every game to be like a nerf toss, you know, where you're just like, I'm scoring points like crazy, and this is so fun, and the ball never goes out, you know, you, yeah, that gets, you need a brutal game to, you know, just to remind you that it's not always going to be easy, and it makes you work harder, and makes you think, that game really does make me think like what do i not need to do what do i need to do what's important you have to practice your shooting definitely because if you don't get that ball up at the top you know your chances are it's going to hit something go out so yeah and just looking at the you know the the artwork and all that it's so nostalgic for me i'll never get rid of it but i'll just always hate it you know it's like having damien from the omen as a kid you know it's like it's your child you just really fucking hate it.
    33:07
    How about work updates, man? Do you have any new things to tell us? I know that you mentioned that CQC might be releasing their title by the end of the year, but we haven't heard much rumbling. Do you think that's still going to hold? I don't know, honestly. I don't know. And I'm afraid to say, you know. Right. I'm afraid to say something. My name gets attached to it and it gets spread throughout the entire pinball world. I really don't know. I've been so focused on doing the game that I'm working on them for because I finally started that. Cool. And so I'm just trying to get in tune with the designer. I can't mention his name, but trying to find that tuning fork hum, you know, or, you know, what he sees that I'm doing and I know what he wants. And we kind of meet in the middle and all that. We're right at that point now. You know, we've hit that point. And so now it's like smooth sailing. So now it's like chug, chug, chug, chug. And I can get a lot of stuff done, show them different things. And so that's working real well. I haven't had time to really think about anything else. So I have not asked them about that. But things are going. and I'm in serious talks with a couple of other people, and there might be some interesting translights slash back glasses on the horizon. That's all I can really say at this point, but some definite fun stuff that I'm sure people will enjoy. And that's about it. How about you, Christian? For the last one, man, I've been playing the heck out of this Jurassic Park Pro that I had on rent, and unfortunately my time was up, and it left the building. But, God, I freaking love that game, man. I just have gotten more and more in love with it, and I thought that I would just kind of play it and not need it again, but it's definitely going to be something I buy at some point because the heap is fucking brilliant. These games are fun and they're approachable, but as you get deeper into them and you learn the rules, it just gets better. We're stocking away some money to do the other side of our basement, and so I don't have a ton of expendable cash right now because Jersey Jack's guns is on the horizon, but when I do, Jurassic Park will be mine. Where are you going to put it? Because I've seen your basement on the video camera. That's right. I'm running out of space, man. Well, not only that, but this has become Christmas Wrapping Central. So there is so much shite all over the place down here. I can barely move. You know, on top of our super awesome pinball stocking wrapping, and I'm doing the Pinside Secret Santa thing. So I've been getting all that stuff together. And just wrapping for family and friends, man. It's a lot. So, yeah, it looks like a war zone down here. But it's been fun doing that. I love Christmas and we're jumping in early because 2020 has sucked and you've got to have a little bit of happiness at the end of the year to close things out. But outside of that, I am still waiting on my guns, man. I talked to Chris from Cointaker and he said that the LEs, he doesn't think, will be out until early January, early 2021. So we'll see if I can get my hands on one at that point. But it's not going to be in December, it sounds like, unfortunately. I did hear there were so many Guns N' Roses on order that Jersey Jack will be making them for a while. I'll listen to Ketchup with all the orders that he's gotten. I've heard that a lot of them have sold. I don't know what the number is, but they're selling very well. On the BBC thing that I watched today with Jack, he was saying that they sold out of their 500 collector's editions in two hours. Yeah. That's crazy because $12.05 is not cheap, so there was a serious demand out there to get those games. Has Jersey Jack ever sold out on a collector's edition? No, I don't think so. You can still get them. And then I'm still collecting shit for the game, and I don't have it. So I have my topper, I have my subwoofer, I've got the speaker system that goes on the top of the game, and then Matt Reesher from Back Alley sent a bomb action button plate that basically wraps around the action button and it's got revolvers that go to either side and it's got all these really, really cool vines that go over the guns and then these roses. It's beautiful and it looks great online, but it's even better in person. So if you're getting a game, I highly recommend getting one of these. They're awesome. Imagine that. Christian got something.
    36:58
    Christian got some stuff. Yeah. Christian's very jelly about, you know, the things that I get in the mail. I just need, like, a red brush cut. People just be telling me shit. You got some awesome pin shades the other day from Jockton from Pin Shades. So did you. I know. All right. See, I want something on my own. I want something I can say, like, I got this. You didn't get it. Fuck you. You know, that has happened in the past. Yes. I really don't want anything to tell you the truth. I think I'm good. You've got a lot of stuff, Chris. I've seen your place. I'm very concerned. One of our mutual friends, a listener of the show, Charles Thomas. Yes. Very, very dutiful listener. Very good guy. I think he's sending us pies in the mail.
    37:43
    Yeah, because he was showing me pictures of them, and he's asking for our address and all this stuff. He's like, I want to send you guys something for Christmas. And I'm like, please don't make it a pie. I don't think it's going to get here in one piece. Is it serve safe? I don't know if that meets food standards. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's another thing, too. Like, you know, you're sitting here eating the pie, and at the bottom of the plate, once we eat the pie, it says, Canada says hi. Oh, no.
    38:08
    Oh, no. Charles is a great guy. I talk to Charles all the time. He's a really nice dude. And I sent him a few things he was asking for. He had me do him a favor, and I sent him a few things. So he is sending me a Guns N' Roses pin gulp for Christmas, which is very cool. It's kind of a nice-looking thing I'm going to throw on the side of the guns. More stuff for you. Maybe you'll get that and you'll get the pies, Chris. You know what I want for Christmas I want you to not get anything for year You such a dick dude Thank you Ed I sorry I sorry Uh Charles is a nice guy Yeah, he's a super nice guy. Yeah. We have good listeners. We do. So, Pinball in the News. You guys want to jump into that? Talk about what's happening in the pinball world. I don't even know what's happening. What is happening in the pinball world? Let's play the theme first. All right. From now, Pinball in the News with your super awesome eyewitness news crew. Don't fucking just read news off the internet, you fat piece of shit.
    39:07
    So, Ed, you had kind of mentioned this earlier. You said that Twippy pre-voting starts today, and I thought we should talk about that a little bit. So this week in pinball is crushing it as usual. They've got a huge Black Friday list of deals that they just did. They're giving away a PlayStation 5 and a Color DMD, and they just put up their pre-voting section on Twip earlier today. So this was a little confusing last year, And I just wanted to touch on what's going down now for anyone who doesn't really understand. But I guess in December, they do take votes. But these votes for your first and second favorite of different categories really only go to make up the drop-down menu options when the voting really occurs. You're voting for the nominees, basically. Right. So you actually have to vote twice. Yes, because they're eliminating. so when the actual awards happen, they don't have 10 choices. They can eliminate it down to the two or three top picks or however many top picks they end up having when the actual voting occurs. Oh, too many. The nominees for the podcast were 10. Right. I don't know what the numbers are. I just know that that's the purpose of the preview. Right. Are you still there, Ed? Yeah, I'm here. Sorry. I apologize. We have wood floors here in Florida, and my dog, she keeps walking across the floor, and she's dragging her toenails, making all kinds of noise. I'm trying to hit the mute button when she's walking across the floor, and I need it, and so I cut myself off short there.
    40:30
    Barbara's plopped down right next to me on this big poofy pillow. He's not budgeting. Well, Tupi Awards and the voting this year should be interesting just because some of the categories are going to be a little bit different because things like the Favorite Pinball Tournament got a lot more interesting. Now that Pinberg isn't there, and that would be the clear winner every year, but it wasn't held in 2020, so I'm not sure if it would even be eligible this time. Do they even have a favorite expo? Because there wasn't any. There was one right before TPF or a couple, but I think Jeff just eliminated them all together. I didn't see the best favorite virtual event or something like that. How many of those have there been? I think there was two, right? There was expo. Expo did one, and I don't know who else did one. Freeplay Florida, I think, did one. I thought Freeplay Florida was doing a series of small events. I don't know if they were doing anything virtually. Yeah, maybe not. Yeah, definitely the small events. I'm not sure if they did anything online, but I seem to remember someone else doing an online thing. But what do you guys think about game of the year? I mean, do we have a clear winner? Do you guys feel like, for me, it's going to come down to Avengers versus guns, right? Yeah. And I played Avengers for the first time, and it's a really good game.
    41:37
    Man, Guns N' Roses, that was freaking awesome when I played it. I thought it was outstanding. Me too. Yeah, obviously. Yeah, I think Stern having more games out there is going to help them, just because more people have been exposed to Avengers. And then major contenders for best theme integration, because you've got guns and then you have games like Rick and Morty that just had, both of which kind of threw the kitchen sink into the games from an asset standpoint. I think there's going to be a lot of surprises here. I shouldn't say surprises, but drama? Good drama? I wonder who's going to win, not knowing who the runaway winner is on a lot of this stuff. That's going to make it pretty exciting because usually you kind of know, like, you know, TPF's going to win or this game or that game. But, yeah, I'm kind of looking forward to it. It feels like, you know, when you're watching those, you know, 24 hours before the big boxing match, like they're trying to get you to buy the pay-per-view, and you're just like, God damn, I didn't care about boxing, but I've got to watch that. I kind of feel like that with this year's awards. It's going to be very fun to watch and to discover who's going to win all these things. I agree. Have you guys put in your votes yet? I did half. I was having a brain fart. Like, it said best topper, and I'm like, what? I couldn't even think of a single topper that came out. 2020. Yeah, later on I thought about Elvira, but that's still the only one I could think of. Turtles. What else, Ed? Did the turtles want to come out? I've seen pictures, but I don't know if it came out. Yeah, it's out. I don't know about turtles. And, of course, we've talked about this before when it comes to, you know, I'm not going to try to change the way that Twippy does his things, You mentioned the Alvaro topper, and I have one, but there's only like 200 of them. So I guess it qualifies. It came out, but, you know, if nobody can have one, then... Well, you can still load on something and not own it. Well, but you can't own it. You know, you couldn't go buy one if you wanted to. Are they sold out, the Alvaro? Yeah. Oh, yeah, they sold out instantly because, you know, there's stupid people like me that just will just buy anything. and Stern puts out, because, you know, I'm a good little minion. I'll just buy it.
    43:42
    Listen, it's a cool-looking topper. It's just the price tag, I think, that got people shell-shocked. But you're right, man. It's limited, and that comes with a price tag, too. Well, anyway, Twippy should be awesome. That was kind of that bullet point. The next thing I wanted to bring up was pinball at Dave & Buster's. I don't know if you guys saw this, but Stern had put out an image of four pinball machines in Dave & Buster's with, above the machines, there was a giant flat-screen TV with the LCD screen kind of mirrored, so you could see exactly what was going on that. And then, above that, was a vertical big-screen TV that was showing the entire play field. The cost behind the barrier of entry for this at all the Dave & Buster's has got to be pretty impressive because of all of the features that it comes with. But, man, how cool is it that they're getting Stern pinball machines kind of implemented into the world's, or at least the country's, biggest arcade chain. The country's biggest closed arcade. Well, yes, it's closed. And there are rumors that it might go bankrupt, which would kind of ruin this whole thing. But if it does stay alive, which I hope it does, because I go to Dave & Buster's with my kids and it's a lot of fun, it would be really cool to get Pinball back into the arcades. Oh, yes. Yes, definitely. Definitely. I mean, it's all part of the resurgence right now, which is, I guess, is good and is bad, right? Because we're seeing like this huge, you know, because of COVID, this huge push in, you know, sales, you know, prices going up on games. You know, the more people that come in, the more demand there is, the higher the prices are going. So it's good and bad. Right. It's obviously good to expand your community, but, you know, it's going to cost everybody, you know, because they're all, you know, the more, there's going to be just more and more people searching for the same limited amount of things. Mm-hmm. So. Yeah. It's kind of like when you were in high school and you had that weird alternative band, like The Cure, that was like your little pet band, and then they got a big hit and everyone started liking them, and you're like, I don't like it so much anymore.
    45:34
    Yeah, I like any location that has pinball. I'm going to like, you know, especially when it's someone that I can, or a place that I can go to pretty much anywhere in the country that I go. Well, you've still got young kids, you know. I no longer have the tolerance for all that. Yeah. Kids fucking going nuts. How does that go? like i've turned into my dad i'm just like you shocked your goddamn kids when it's your kids your threshold is a little bit higher but man it's it's still tough and when that stuff goes down that's it's hard to maintain your cool and when it's other people's kids it's even it's even harder uh so i get it as a single dude you probably are not going to be going to david busters to play lots of pinball but i'd like to but no yeah there's places like you know around here there's uh pinball pizza in ann arbor it's like a really big place you have Tons of pinball machines are like three levels or something like that. And it's all just like college kids and stuff. So there's no little kids running around screaming and all that. I prefer that over Dave and Buster's. Yeah, for sure. But Dave and Buster's does have alcohol, you know. Yes. That does help you deal with the kids. Maybe that's why. Hell yeah. I like it. I'll go to those places, though, and I won't even play pinball, though. I'll just sit there. Just sit at the bar? Just sit at the bar, looking, talking about pinball. Do you know what my wife loves? It's those coin pushers. Oh, yeah. Oh, my. She's freaking obsessed. And I have to admit that I sit down with her and play, too, because it's this, like, repetitive Pavlov dog. Like, you know, every once in a while you get rewarded by those chips falling down or, like, the little Batman cards. It's super addictive. Batman cards, what? Yeah, man. They've got a Batman 66 version. Yeah, it's like old school Batman stuff. Do they have a TV show Batman coin pusher? I think they do. Yeah, they definitely have Batman in it. I'm trying to remember if it's just Batman 66 or if it's other Batman eras. That'll fit my collector room. That would be cool. Well, I'm getting rid of my desk and shit in there, you know, because my little work setup's out in the living room now, so I can watch TV and be with the puppy and, you know. So, yeah, I'll have some room in there. Nice, man. If you have that, I'm coming to visit. Tell Sarah that there are videos on YouTube of people. They find these quarter portions of, like, bars where gambling's legal, so they have like $100 bills like wadded up in rubber bands and shit and people are playing for all this shit. Yes. I got stuck watching those things. Like, oh, I just fell down the fucking rabbit hole and coin pusher all night long. Next thing I know, the sun's coming up. I'm like, oh, shit.
    48:00
    People say watching Twitch, to watch pinball on Twitch is boring. Like, you're watching coin pushers. It was not boring because the guy's like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, and all this stuff would fall. I'm like, yes! I'm not even getting any of it, but I'm happy. that's awesome man this is really cool actually uh carl d'angelo we talked uh last last week a little bit about uh carl and his in-disc tournament out in california uh that he throws he's a big competitive guy and he's a streamer he's also a super good dude and he's putting on this thing called pin clash which is um he's getting a bunch of different streamers together everyone who has a jurassic park at home that they can stream and he's putting on this big tournament that's essentially all online and it's a head-to-head tournament and basically what that means is that two people compete on the same game it's it's obviously not not the exact game it's just the game at their house to do certain challenges like the first person to get to chaos or the first person to trap a dinosaur kind of like what stern did then exactly right yep and and so they're gonna do that carl's putting up a thousand bucks of his own money um yeah and they're they're just going to uh to stream it this weekend so it's it's cool to see people trying to keep competitive pinball alive, even though there aren't these big events and leagues and things like that aren't meeting. And this is a cool way to do it. So I'm looking forward to watching this. Way to go, Carl. Thanks for keeping this scene alive. You want to talk a little bit about the alien pinball pieces that we've seen? Obviously, next episode, we're going to get a little bit deeper into that. I don't know what you're talking about, this alien pinball. Yes, there's an egg and a facehugger on there, but it doesn't say anything about Alien pinball. That's right. This is purely theoretical, but have you seen these teases by the pinball brothers on Facebook? I'm actually pretty good friends with those guys. Nice. Roger and Catoon, yeah, I've seen them. Okay.
    49:56
    You've seen a lot more than just the pinball brothers. I've seen some, so yeah. But it's not like I talk to them on a regular basis. It's been months since I've talked to them. I just talked to them today, and we're going to be seeing stuff tomorrow. Awesome. We're going to be the first ones out of the shoot. Yes, I better. Better text Roger right now and get some pictures and drop that shit before you all do. There you go. Yeah.
    50:23
    You should have sent me the ones watermarked. That's awesome. Are you guys into the Aliens theme? Is that a game that you guys would be excited to own? I don't know what you're talking about.
    50:32
    So today on the Stern of the Union address that I just looked over, I don't know if it came out today or recently, But I thought it was really interesting that they had a whole section in the Stern of the Union that was talking about pinball rental programs. So Stern, the company, is now getting behind that. And they were saying, you know, stay entertained by staying inside with the latest Stern pinball machines. Even if your local bar or arcade is temporarily unavailable, there are plenty of opportunities to play the newest Stern games. Contact your local authorized Stern dealer for more information on renting your very own Stern pinball machine. Then they linked to their find a dealer site. So I'm curious to know if a lot of the distributors out there are up for this. I mean, if Stern is pushing their distributors to rent games. And, like, Ed, you were saying that these guys are having a hard time even keeping stock. Yeah, and this is not a new concept. I mean, I've seen people renting out games for, you know, even before COVID for parties and stuff, but it just seems like such a, I guess if it's a business type thing, I just can't imagine. Like, I think, would I do that? God, I would never rent out one of my games because I would just be so worried that bad shit happens. But I guess if it's going to be a routed game anyway and someone wants to come pick it up or get it delivered, then I hope it does well. I mean, it's a great idea. Like, I don't have a Jurassic Park, and you were saying, Christian, that you had rented one and you got to play it for a while. So I would love to be able to do that if that's something that was available. Just rent one for a while and come play it, especially if you're going to have a party or something. That would be awesome. Are you sure you don't want to do it? Because I can kind of see you with like a straw hat and a tropical drink. Come on down to Ed's Pinball Shed.
    52:06
    Absolutely, yeah. Push it, pull it, or carry it out. We got game. You're not going to put out your Elvira topper to Joe Schmoe. Exactly. Well, you know, I don't want people, I'm not, you know, people come over and I'm like, hey, you know, wash your hands and, you know, don't wipe. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. But, yeah, the rental program sounds like a fun deal for some people. I could see how that could work out. I don't know what the pricing is on it. I mean, how much is it? Well, you just rented one. What did it cost to rent it? It varied. It varied by title. They were all a few hundred bucks. For how long? For a month. It's not killing you. If you went out to a local pinball place and you played a couple of times over the course of a month, you'd probably sink a few hundred bucks in there. But Jurassic Park was by far the best machine he had. And it was a little over 300 bucks to rent it for the month. So it was a good deal, I think, in my mind. I mean, I was very happy to pay that, to have the game for a month. I'm trying to think if, like, I would accept $300 to bring a game into someone's basement and then take it back home. If I would accept $300 just for that, let alone the game and wear and tear. The dude had to, he came, he did it. He literally wanted to do it all himself. Like, I offered to help him. I'm like, dude, I know how to move these things. I'm happy to help you. He wanted to do it all himself. So he brought it in, set it up, and then broke it all down. I'm like, dad, screw that. That's what I'm talking about, because I would be that guy. I would be like, no, no, I'll just do it because I would be so afraid that they don't know how to do it. Or, you know, well, it fell out of the back of my truck. You know, I thought I could do it by myself, but I can't. Ed, would it be worth it to you just to take one of your games and go load it into someone's basement and then go back and pick it up for $300? It's not worth $300 when you get out of bed somewhere. That's what I'm saying.
    53:53
    That's what I'm saying. And that's aside from what might happen to your game. Just $300 to have to do that. I'm like, fuck that. I've got better things to do. We're all privileged to be in that situation, though. I mean, there are people out there that that is worth it. How come everything I say ends up sounding shitty? It doesn't sound shitty. It's all about where you are, what your expectations are. And I am where I am. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. He's retired. He's earned it. He's a baller now. Yeah, but see, I'm not retired, so I can't take on that baller status. I've got to be more humble. Well, anyway, if you can get away with it, I highly recommend renting a pinball machine because not only are you helping somebody out, but you are definitely going to get your money's worth for a month of straight pinball play. So I had a great time doing it. I will definitely do it again in the future. I'd like to rent Ed's 25th anniversary Star Trek. Yeah. You could drive a couple hours. Absolutely. Just drive down and pick it up, right? Yeah. You know what? If you want to come get it, you can just borrow it. You don't even have to rent it. That's nice, man. I'll just rent out the garage for like a week, and I'll just sleep on the floor. Mine's got a color DMD in it, too. I got the color DMD like a week before. It is out now. They did announce it, but I got to help test it. That's always fun. Todd Tucky's got a video on that Star Trek, and he did some cool stuff with LEDs, colored LEDs, that really enhanced that center thing that looks like the bingo ball thing, whatever that thing is. Yeah, he did some really cool stuff. In fact, that's almost what made me want one was I watched that episode, and I'm like, damn, I want to get that machine now. So, yeah, just look it up. Go to TNT Amusements and then look up Star Trek Data East or whatever and check out what he did with it. It'll give you some good ideas. I'll definitely check it out. This month for Christmas, they're adding code to Elvira to add a little bit of extra fun to the Santa Claus Conquers the Martians Haunt mode. Are you familiar with that mode? No, no, I'm not. Okay, so apparently it's hard to get to, but if you get to it, they're going to add some special audio and I guess some other features to that mode for Christmas. Just so that they're putting out at Christmas? No, I think it's for the whole month, so it may be in an update that's already come out or a recent update now, so check it out. December 1st through the 25th. Yeah, but I have no idea what that mode is because I've never gotten deep enough in the game to see it. I'll have to go check that out for sure. A little Christmas treat? I might have to play with the glass off to figure that one out. That's right. And then the very last thing just came out tonight, so I thought it was relevant. And I know you guys aren't into competitive pinball, but this is a pretty big update by the IFPA. And they were saying that there's really no plans at this point to organize any state championships. They're going to roll over all their prize money. And they survey all of their other countries and the local state representatives for the states that run their tournaments. And they've asked them if they feel like it's time to open up these tournaments again. and they said that only about 18% of people think that that's a good idea. So they're pushing that into the future. But do you guys know what Whoppers are? Delicious hamburgers. I was going to say, they're delicious.
    57:00
    Whoppers. So these are the points that you get when you win tournaments or you do well in tournaments. The better you do, the more Whoppers you get. We know. Yeah. The way it works is apparently over a period of every year, you lose a chunk of the Whoppers that you've accumulated. So the more Whoppers you have, the higher your rank, basically, in the competitive world. And so people are worried because their ranks are slowly dissolving. So the number one player in the world is now seeing their Whoppers decay because every year you're losing a chunk of whatever you have. Whopper freeze. Now, is this all because of COVID and there's no tournament? That's exactly right. Well, that's, I mean, that's an easy fix. They just freeze it. But also, wouldn't it be the same for everyone? So it's still equal. That's their point. So what they're saying is they have no plans on doing anything with Whopper points at this point. They're just going to have them continue to decay. So for guys like me, that's a good thing because I'm seeing my rank actually improve, whereas guys like Raymond Davidson are seeing their rank slowly whittle away to nothing. But, you know, they'll still be fine at the end of this. But it is kind of sad to watch your Whopper points just, you know, slowly go down the drain. But I guess it's all relative, man. Whopper points sounds like if you get 10 Whopper points, you get a free Whopper. It's like a punch card. Yeah. Yeah, now I'm hungry. None of us know competitive pinball really well, and that is our competitive pinball update. And we'll let the final round guys take it from there. Yeah, that's our competitive pinball tip of the year. Don't expect another one until next December. Well, that was awesome, man. It brings back a little bit of good memories of hanging out with you and doing the show. Yeah, it was fun coming on. Thanks for having me back on. Yeah, man. Fingers crossed that everything gets better and TPF actually happens. And if so, come back and share the information. Let's talk about it. Oh, yeah, as soon as anything happens. Because if TVF 2021 ends up being a go, I'm going to need all the advertising I can go. So I'll be definitely hitting all the podcast circuits the best I can. Yep. I just threw your Christmas card in the mail the other day, so you'll be getting that soon. Yeah, I put yours in the mail, too. Nice. Wow, I'm late. I might have stole that out of the mail.
    59:07
    That's right. Yeah, you should be getting one. I don't know what happened. I got all my cards sitting right here, but I've got like two of them addressed.
    59:17
    I better get a move on it. I absolutely love getting Christmas cards, but God damn, I hate filling them out. Yeah, I know. It's such a, can I just do the blanket Facebook, you know, Happy Holidays, everybody. You know, if you're seeing this, it's straight from the heart. Right. I always feel bad putting my Christmas card up there on Christmas Day because I feel like if the people are seeing it for the first time, they didn't make the cut. I just feel, you know, I feel bad about that. But we share it every year around Christmas time. We did it for years when the kids were young. We did the family photos and sent them out every year. Well, you think I'd have time to do it now. I just don't want to. It's all about what you care about, man. You're free to do whatever the fuck you want and not worry about the extraneous stuff. All right. Appreciate you having me back on again. I hope to do it again. And congratulations on this. Does this make one year, I guess? One year, man. Good job. One year, 20 episodes. Wild ride, buddy. Yeah, it's good having you back. All right, guys. Take care. All right. Take it easy, Ed. Our former co-host, Mr. Ed Vanderbeen. So sad. Fun as always, man. Fun as always. Yeah, but now he's gone to the next anniversary. One year from now. No, he'll come on for the TPF update. Yeah. And that'll be soon. So that's good. All right. Stick around. Coming up after this commercial break, we've got the grand poobah of pinball, Mr. Gary Stern. We'll be right back.
    60:41
    Guess what? I got a fever. And the only prescription is the Super Awesome Pinball Show. Oh, yeah! Super. Shut up. This show is sponsored by Cointaker, distributor of brand new, full-size, authentic Stern pinball, Chicago games, raw thrills, arcade games, and much more. Also, a full line of dramatic pinball mods, LED flipper kits, speaker lights, custom laser LED toppers, playfield protectors, Valley Williams parts, pinball apparel, and much more. Get the latest releases and glam out your game room with Cointaker. Everything at your fingertips at Cointaker.com. This is Evil Knievel and the Evil Knievel Shock Absorbing Stunt Cycle.
    61:37
    You can make him do wheelies, backstands, even mid-air somersaults. And for that big jump, here's Evil up and over that four-foot ditch.
    61:51
    Evil Knievel, sold separately or with the Evil Knievel Stunt Cycle from Ideal. Hey, everybody. This is John Borg, and you're listening to the Knuckleheads on the super awesome, mega, fantastic, best ever pinball show. Rock on.
    62:13
    Now, back to our program. Well, it's about frickin' time. I am the God of Hellfire, and I bring you... The Super Awesome Pinball Show.
    62:24
    It's a cool show. Think of what you're saying You can get it wrong and still you think that it's alright Think of what I'm saying We can work it out and get it straight Don't say goodbye We can work it out And now we bring you the guest most likely not to appear on this show. That being said, we are so happy to have him. Pinball has always been in Gary Stern's DNA. The son of Sam Stern, he witnessed his father's work at Williams and Stern Electronics and paved his own path from data east to Stern Pinball that we all know and love today. He has successfully weathered the ups and downs of the industry as the founder, chairman, and CEO of Stern Pinball, the world's largest pinball company and true market leader. So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, the Pope of pinball, the one true keeper of the silver ball, Mr. Gary Stern. Hey, welcome, sir. This is all very high-tech for me. Actually, I used to use Skype a lot just to make phone calls. thank you so much for coming on the show gary we really appreciate it thank you this is christian it is yeah it's very nice to meet you well gary you're ready to get into this we've got some questions for you if you don't if you don't mind answering a few things for us yeah i guess i could do that i'm a lawyer by education so you know we're taught to uh to speak excellent well i have my vodka tonic here in my hand in honor of you and uh i just made some coffee but you know what We're going to take a break in a minute, and I'm going to go pour a vodka to go with it. That's what I like to hear. Excellent. With the COVID, you know, with this whole pandemic, and I'm talking before you even ask a question, which I like to do, but I cut way back on my drinking, which is quite a shame.
    64:04
    And I don't drink alone. When I live alone, I don't drink alone, other than maybe have a drink before going to a restaurant. So when the restaurant's closed, you know, I didn't drink. I lost 25 pounds. I'll tell you what. I can't tell you that's all vodka.
    64:19
    I stopped drinking beer and I did the same. I lost a ton of weight. Vodka is a great diet tool. Brown alcohol is able to get you drunk faster and beer, of course. It was a very weak voting season, so very short. And so, therefore, the beer consumption was significantly down. Ah, well. I made myself a coffee and a vodka. and I want to buy our next pinball machine because I went back to the habit or the practice of bringing the pro version of the next game. This, by the way, is my entire conversation about the next game to my apartment so that I can learn it because you may know that, first of all, I should know the games. Second is I do webinars for the dealers when we first introduce the game and I have to explain the game. At least at the casual player level, But you guys, you know, who are enthusiasts and those listening, will get deep into it. So, you know, I play the game at home. I look at it a lot. Harry Williams didn't play pinball. He watched people play. I can't watch anybody play in my apartment because, hey, COVID, they're not allowed here. But, you know, they're just going to play. So how soon before reveal would you normally get your hands on a game to bring into your apartment? Months. Okay. Wow, that's far ahead. Months, probably. Yeah. Yeah, I may be lying a little bit. I don't know. We've got a solid list of questions here for you, so we're going to jump into it if you're ready. That's perfect. So you had mentioned on Jack Danger's Expo interview that you've been in pinball for 73 years, and that is an amazing statistic. Obviously, your role and responsibilities have drastically changed since you were 16 years old working in the stock room, but can you take us through a routine day for Gary Stern? What do you do on a day-to-day basis at the company? That's hard to answer. I mean, I'm trying to figure that out myself. You don't really have a job. You know, CEO is, you know, is a... It's a glamour title. Yes, a glamour title. But, you know, there's a number of meetings, many on Zoom. Today, even if people are in the office, the meeting's often on Zoom. But, you know, there's product development type, not the individual teams, but the MPI, the new product introduction. Once a week, we have a meeting on that. Once a week we have a short manager's meeting, top managers, what you call the C-suite in a big company, meeting on Monday to start the week. We have a major meeting every Thursday of that. And then every morning there's a meeting in the sales group I listen to. There's periodic meetings, stage reviews on games. And by the way, part of it is I go play games, go look at the games, go look at it. We have the neatest new toy. We've got one of those 3D printers that print out parts. Yes. I was watching it. I just stood there and watched it for a half hour print. Very exciting. It's like watching gas. Better than watching grass grow.
    67:13
    And then, you know, I used to do a lot of sales because I did the international sales. And most of my customers are my friends who have become friends. So, you know, it's quite varied. We had a lot of licensed contracts. They're planning meetings, a lot of things like that, a lot of talking to people. a lot of walking around looking at the factory a lot of working on schedules with other people the production schedule and you know right now you know that that we are struggling to get enough games out we're building 65 70 games a day there's on any day many people working at home but in the building with 250 people in the building you know we employed 300 plus to do this so you know and our production is way up, but I was working on the production. Not on getting the production up, but on the scheduling and how we make some determinations to make longer runs of a few less models. We had to push some gains out in the next year, and we probably need to reduce some SKUs, have too many different gains, because you have to make more than 50 at a time or 100 at a time. We need to make multiple 100 in a row to have the price anywhere down where it should be. So just general management, I guess. I go in most days, even though I'm 75, because I just like being in my office instead of my home. And we've made many, many procedural and physical changes in the plant. You know, temperatures of everybody coming in, everybody wearing masks. And we have cornered the market on clear shower curtains. In every workstation, there's a clear shower curtain hanging on the assembly line. We have spread out the microwaves. Those of you who have been in there have seen the wall of microwaves. Yes, yes. Move the refrigerator so it's spread out. Everything has got six-foot marks, so when people come in, they're six foot apart. We've got all kinds of dividers built. You know, we have those cafeteria-type tables near the microwaves, and you can't sit with anybody now. You sit across from an empty spot, and next to you there's a clear divider, and then on the other side of that divider there's somebody not next to you but across. So we spread people out a lot to be sure that we're keeping people safe. You just have to make many changes during this period until we get a good vaccine regimen. Right. So during normal game development, do you interact directly with each department, or do you rely on someone like George Gomez to give you, like, the 20,000-foot view of what's happening with each project? We have Danielle Siebert. She keeps our NPI, or our New Product Introduction Program. And we have Mark Wehner is George's right hand. Danielle tracks the products over all departments, which includes the marketing and everything else, and tries to keep them on schedule. And it's a very complex schedule. It's a 14-month development cycle and well over a million bucks, of course, to develop a pinball machine. Maybe two. I don't know. We haven't figured it out in a long time. So we have this weekly meeting on that. Gene and Mark and the design team, sometimes with George, and then have weekly meetings that their information is compounded into a short form of a very long NPI, new product introduction plan, very organized, because remember, we're doing three new cornerstones a year, and with three models each, you say, well, they're the same. No, they're not the same. They're at least two and a half to three games, those three games. So call that nine games a year. plus often a studio and often a vault which needs some work done on it and one, at least one of the pin and then some of the platforms are similar there's still a lot of work involved in each of them and then maybe one or two private label games or co-branded games so there's a lot of development going on there's like 50 full-time people plus a lot of people on the outside doing LCD work and artwork. You know, many of the people doing the art, you can attest to, aren't full-time employees of ours. Right. You had kind of talked about the coronavirus and how it's impacted your company a little bit. And with your release schedule as it is, you've been very, you know, very much on three cornerstones every single year. But with COVID and with 5,000 games in the backlog that you said just a few weeks ago with the Jack Danger stream, are you feeling like you don't need to maintain that schedule and you may have to push things back a little bit, maybe only two cornerstones this year or something to that effect? It's an interesting question. I don't have an answer to that. Okay, fair enough. I mean, I think it's something that is considered. But having said that, you know, we picked up the production rate. We're knocking down the back order a little bit. We've also changed, as I said, we've pushed some games off until next year. Instead of a lot of little runs, we're trying to run some 400 and 500 runs of games. and fill them more quickly at 65, 70 games a day, and we'll probably take it higher than that. So we do have a cadence, which is the proper cadence for our cornerstones, being one in January. This is our past history, which is actually some made in December for the Europeans, which is another question of what's going on with the Europeans, but because there was a show in London in January, we did one in April. A lot of this has to do with the coin-op, the commercial segment, and therefore we have games starting into Europe before, both for home use and for the commercial segment, before the summer, because if you start a game in June, you've just lost the European market because you want to start another game in August, so that it's there for the September buying season. Oh, wow, somebody just sent me an email, season's greeting from Japan. used to be one of my associates at Sega in Japan. Isn't that nice? Remember, this was Sega Pinball at one time. Right. Or Horizon, that's who it was. And so, you know, there's something to be said because once you get off of that schedule, you either have to drop a game, as you say, and we need variety in the market. I think there's one or two games a year. Yes, there's other companies making games, but usually one a year or something like that, one new game a year or so. So we think it's important to have variety for both the commercial. We divide into three market segments, the commercial market, which is 40%, 50% of our business worldwide, the enthusiast market, which is your listeners, and the home market, which is general homeowners, which is especially brisk right now. I used to say the home market was the upside. It was called the rec room market, but it's the home market. and that was the upside because it's going to catch on and there's millions of households that could use a pinball machine well it caught on you know people are buying staying at home more and they're looking for in-home entertainment all kinds of things in chicago i'm told there's a one year wait for an in-ground swimming pool that's right you know so we're very brisk there where our operator business is a little weaker right now and uh it's weak right now not a little weaker It's weak right now. Right. But come spring, which technically starts, what, March 21st, come spring, early spring, things should be opening up, and that market should become pretty brisk at the same time as the home market. So we know that we have to increase production in order to fill all these markets, and we have to continue a variety of games for these markets. Yeah, the operators might not buy quite as much to start with, but there will be a need, and people want to go out. You can see people want to go out. Young people do. Old people do. I can remember going to Wisconsin on my motorcycle. The day they opened the bars up in Madison, and the bars were loaded with 45-year-olds, you know, elbow to elbow, not with children. All from Illinois, by the way, because we were still closed. So people are looking to go out, and we will have an upside there. But, you know, I talk about the three markets, and they build each other. The home market, which is very brisk right now, some of those home people will only buy one game. Some may trade one in and get another. Some may buy a second game or a third game. They may even become enthusiasts. Those home buyers are our next enthusiasts. And the enthusiasts, some of the enthusiasts, some of you all have all these games. You become operators. In fact, the new crop of commercial operators are mostly pinball guys. Right. And we said this, Ryan Cravens and I at an association meeting talked about, you want more members, you should be seeking out these young operators. Well, when the operators put games on the street and the young people, the 20-somethings or whatever, go to the barcade or the FEC, excuse me, bar arcade or the FEC, and they play the games. And, well, when they get a little older at 35, 40, 45, they decide they want a game for a home. They become a home buyer. So it's a big cycle. And we need to have all of those markets for that cycle to continue and pinball to grow and to continue. I hope you got all that. Yeah, we did, of course. So your target market is generally. I think you won't have a chance to ask one question, so please go ahead.
    76:39
    That's all we're going to get. Good night. Thank you. um you mentioned your target market is generally a 45 year old for median age for collectors and 20 something for barcades and public locations and things like that and the goal is to pick themes that cover both age ranges now with covid taking a large portion of the public play out of the equation has that affected your game release strategy to target more of the home buyer and does that affect also your license selections Less the license selection than the release of games to build because some of the titles we have are more family than others And certainly, you know, the Marvel titles, the Batman, Warner titles, the DC titles, the rock and roll titles are very family-friendly. But as far as buying titles, again, if we have a 14-month MPI, The title is bought well before that. So we have titles in hand through 2023. Wow. How easy is it to switch it up, Gary, to take one title and move it to a different spot? It happens. But, you know, again, in placing a title in a spot, first of all, in picking a title, you know, what are the assets that are available? What are you going to do? What are you going to get to do? You know, besides thinking who the title appeals to, what are you going to have to work with? you know, take Batman, you had, you know, you all had a lot of video to use and come in and you had a family friendly title. So what are the answers? But also who in the design group is available and interested? You know, you have a rotation, you know, you can't have, you know, two titles in a row done by the same designer there, you know, they got to have, you know, 14, 16 months, you know, between them, you got to rotate. And you know, we have, you know, a number of design teams now. The best designers in the business is not a question about. With George, the best leader and mentor and what have you, he's fantastic. We've been friends for a long time, but he's absolutely known each other for a long time. He's been on the show and it was one of our best interviews ever just because he's so impressive to hear talking about this stuff. He's so dialed into everything, every part of the business. He is a graduate industrial designer. a designer. He has a degree in design. So he knows, you know, keeps up with the, you know, what's hip, what's popular, but he also, and with other kind of games and other kinds, he's also very familiar with materials. He's very familiar with processes, with manufacturing processes of all different kinds. He is a well-rounded, full line, not just a mechanical engineer, not just a rules guy or software guy not just a what is popular not just a manufacturing guy as a graduate designer with a degree in design now you also this is fascinating he went see I can talk more about George than me you're more impressive he worked at the Marvin Glass toy company and Marvin Glass was not far from where I live and it was a bunch of young no a bunch of designers and you would come up with an idea and the different toy companies would come there and you'd sort of sign up to pitch your idea to them and they would buy a toy concept and you'd make a model of it or this or that. So he was a toy designer too, you know. You look at the toys on these games, you know. In Medieval Madness, I don't know if he told you, in Medieval Madness, they couldn't get the castle to work. And if they didn't get it to work, they were going to just, what's his name? I'm sorry. Great software guy from Williams. Larry DeMar. Sorry, Larry. Sorry. Pop that right out. Larry was going to put a nail in the castle so it wouldn't open at all. George stayed up all night and designed it to work. George stayed up. That's amazing. Yeah, he's a toy designer. He's great. A lot of toys on games that you see of ours. Hey, listen. Deadpool is a great operator game, a great casual player game, and just a great game. You're right. Yeah, amazing stuff. I mean, we wanted to talk to you about some of the other designers, too, because you have such a huge armada of them there. And they are, you know, a lot of young talent that you've brought in over the last few years, like Keith Elwin and Tim Sexton, Raymond Davidson. How important is recruitment of new talent? And what do you see as the benefit of bringing in those younger designers and coders and that sort of thing? Future of the business. Two things. One, of course, they don't have any of our old bad habits. as they are because you know i'm the old group but also they bring new ideas a new perspective they're exceptionally good for the uh for the enthusiast player uh so the that that segment of our market i'm part of our three-legged school that i used to be teased about you know they're very important for that and they're the future you know i'm 75 george is 65 steve is 70 ish We have to have young people coming in this business, and for a while we didn't. But Pinball's become so cool again that, yeah, young people are into it. And, of course, getting great players like Raymond and like Keith and so forth. Now, we have some trouble with some of the great players. Like Zach was ranked number one, and then he had kids. And I told him I was going to fire him because we hired him as a ringer. But then we got a ringer. you've got plenty of ringers there plenty of ringers they understand that but you know you look at Keith operating games and if you talk to him he understands the street the casual operating because the basic of game operation is not you guys you know Harry said there was a game called hot hand Harry Williams it was like a second father so it was a game called hot hand and that was a card game and in the upper half of the play field there was a big you know like 8-10 inch flipper on a motor that went around and I'm going around with my fingers you can't see that and the ball fell into different cups with a switch underneath a leaf switch bent leaf so that when the ball would push it down and the flipper would push it out and Harry says to me and I'm like late 20s and Harry says to me oh the kids are going to love this and I put my arm around them and I said that's great but your job is to get people drunk and keep them drunk because in Those days were the bar business. Right. My father started as an operator. I started as a, besides in the stock room at 16. I own bars. So I understand, you know, that part of the concept. Interesting, yeah. But, you know, not only are we designing all those games, but we now, you know, we're doing, you know, everything pinball. We're doing tournaments. We did a great stream TV show. And, by the way, Jack, of course, is great. But Tim, the play-by-play was fantastic. Amazing. Jody put that together. Got to give him credit. We're doing a lot of accessories. And we're at the point now where we're closer to having them out at the same time. That's part of that MPI. And we're closer to having them out at the same time as we introduce the game. But that's the goal. And, you know, that's part of the, you know, the merch, the accessories, the insider club, everything pinball, you know, in order to do it. And, in fact, here's where I break in and I read to you our vision. and I do this at the end of every presentation. I'm going to do it in the middle. Our vision is to create a global lifestyle brand built on the iconic and outrageously fun modern American game of pinball that perpetuates pinball and the rapidly growing, adrenalized global community of pinball fanatics for generations to come.
    84:25
    Now, normally, if we were face-to-face, I'd hold it up and I'd make you read it in unison with me. We'd read it a second time.
    84:34
    I should have sent it to you beforehand. So, in any event, we're making all these different things and doing all these different activities. And, you know, our Facebook is over half a million followers, and our Insider is growing, and George is doing some things that will incredibly increase that. And so that's all important. Yeah, we make money with a lot of it, not all of it. Insider, you know, he doesn't have to make money in that. But in any event, you know, all of this is to grow the pinball community, to expand it past just the pinball enthusiasts. You know, we look at the Harley model, and John Biscaglia and I are Harley guys. And the difference between us and the Harley model is that we've crossed the millennial divide. Harley has not. They've got an aging population. But they have that core of enthusiasts, that's you guys. Outside of that core, they've got rec room buyers or home buyers, casual buyers. I was that. I became the core. I've got three Harleys, okay? Right. And they have some commercial business, not as much as they want. They have motorcycles of different SKUs, different skill levels, different levels, different purposes. They have merchandise. They have accessories. They have Hogg is the Harley owners group, which has something like 1,200,000 members at one time paying $50 a year. that's 60 million dollars it probably cost them a couple million dollars the rest of it for them as profit but it could you know it's hog is very important to us all the accessories and i'm going to touch on the accessories for a minute i'm going to touch on not just the importance of it but what's going on there because we have a danger here and and we are trying to bring our accessories out at the same time and right your listeners should catch this yeah we invest a lot of money in the accessories. We have invested a lot of money in the titles because ours are all, you know, legitimate licensed accessories. We have a problem in the industry that is going to create a problem and that's people who are just stealing the, and that is stealing by the way, somebody else's property, the licensor's property. And I see this in accessories and they use somebody's logo. That's actually a felony, okay? It is civilly punishable, you know, with fines, probably treble damages, up five to ten years in prison, which that's probably not going to happen unless somebody continues to do it. And that's for intentional copyright infringement. Well, they're all intentional because everybody knows that when they use somebody else's logo or the likeness of an actor or something like that, that's theft. And it is. So what's going on is this is becoming so rampant that the licensors, some of them are saying, what's going on here? And others are saying, you've got a bunch of fees for customers, so we don't really want to be in your business anymore so we'll lose some licensors over we are required to tell the licensor if we know of anybody infringing the copyright like using their logo and in an accessory and they're going to start chasing after so you guys making accessories may get a nice warning from us please stop that and disney or somebody may take this seriously they're going to make an example of some people gary where's the line drawn you know can somebody create an r2d2 and put it on top of their machine and be okay just because they're not selling it? I mean, I imagine that that's okay. If it's for their own home, technically, no, but who cares? If you're doing it just in your own home. If you're selling it, showing it, anything else, no, that's somebody else's R2-D2. If you made your own robot that had nothing to do with C2PR or whatever it is, or R2-D2, can you remember anymore? If it was a different character, great. If you use their logo, that's not committed. Okay, I see. You can't use Star Wars logo. And by the way, Star Wars has many logos. There's a different logo on our pin than on our commercial games. I didn't know that. There's a slight difference in the Star Wars logo. You know, you use Batman logo, a Marvel, you know, a Deadpool, you know, Avengers. If you make something that isn't the licensor, it's great. But if you're using the licensor stuff, that's theft. It's somebody else's property. You play somebody else's music without a license? Ah, no, no, no, no. That's not good. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about toppers a little bit because that's a hot-button topic with some people out there. They really love toppers. They really love Stearns toppers, but the price tag is pretty high. The barrier of entry is pretty high for them. So they wanted to know how much of that is due to licensing costs, that sort of thing, that bring that dollar value up versus where it used to be a few hundred bucks versus now $1,000 for a topper. Two things. One is licensing costs, and the more expensive the topper, the larger the license. You know, we pay a percentage. It's gotten pretty hefty. But licensing percentages, they have sort of normal percentages, you know, and it's getting pretty hefty. But the other is people really don't want lights in a box. They want something to do something. So our toppers today, you know, are look at Black Knight, which has patented. Look at that topper and what it does. and the technology is amazing. Look at the cost of developing the technology. Look at a lot of the toppers now, if it's appropriate, have extra rules in the game to operate the topper. So there's programming involved with the game. There's rules in the game. There's more mechanical in the game. You all don't want just a bunch of lights in a box. That's right. Now, I know that there's some old Williams toppers that are just the logo because they're licensed through Williams through Rick. You know, that's one thing. You know, if that's what people wanted from us was just the logo on a piece of plexiglass, great. But that's not what we're making. We're making something much better than that. And we're going past the likes in the box. And we found the ones that are expensive actually sell better. Interesting. So is that because they're limited? Do you have a very limited run of those? Or are they? The one that you're thinking of is Star Wars and we lost our pants. Okay. That's a lost leader. That's a lost follower. I know you can make up for that. I just saw a Batman topper on eBay sell for $3,000. Maybe you want to rerun some of those. Isn't that something? $3,000. Yeah. And there's another one on there for $2,750.
    90:58
    Toppers have definitely become a collectible thing. There's almost like a little sub-market of those. Yeah, that topper, the LE topper. People are selling them off the LE some of them. And that thing, the regular topper is fantastic. The L.A. Topper is more than fantastic. Yes. Again, give it to George. Yeah. Actually, George and I worked on that together. Yeah. Yes, we did. The S.L.E. one, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, speaking of licensing. You're right, you're right, Chris. Talk about a mutual friend of ours, Mr. Joe Kamenko. He's been rather vocal about his attempts to get Harry Potter. Now, this goes against the stern way of keeping things hush-hush. So how do you feel about his enthusiasm for teasing Harry Potter to the pinball audience?
    91:44
    I don't have much feeling. I knew that was coming. There's many titles that one has had for dreams. Joe will also tell you that having, you know, he did a, I think a Zynga game with it. And they are incredibly particular about their brand. That's not a negative. It's true.
    92:10
    They know their brand. And also, you've got to remember, in any license, it's their football. They can take that football and go home. They know how they want their brand positioned, how they want it seen. So they're very particular. So that makes them difficult because, you know, we as design people, or I'm what they call in the movie business the suit, which is who she gets in the way but put that aside you know we we think we know best and it's their football it's their brand they know what to do having said that you know historically she didn't want any gambling involvement and pinball they misunderstood right yeah just like in the past yes let's talk about the the business side of things so you've often said that well a lot of people have talked about the bill of materials you know what what goes into every single game that is made, and the designers obviously need to work within that bill of materials. So how rigid is that dollar value? So if you have a game like Harry Potter that comes through your doors, in theory, is that something that you would say, well, all right, let's increase our bill of materials because we can theoretically charge more for this game, we can make it more limited, or we just want to make this as good as we can be? That takes it into being a cornerstone. That takes it into being a studio game like Batman. You keep your bill of materials the same for every other game that's a cornerstone. Oh, that's a title. Okay. But that's exactly what Batman, you know, look at Batman. We made a game that both Batman and Alvaro, we had a lot of open orders for that we're not going to fill this year because we have so many open orders to fill. Those are very difficult games to make, and so you make many less of them a day than you would Avenger Pro. So we pushed those into next year, and looking at the cost of them, And, you know, you've got to question, you know, how many more of those we can afford to make versus, you know, instead of satisfying a few people with an expensive, expensive, expensive, expensive game that is difficult for us and margin restrictive for us. Do we have to raise the price? Are we better off making a larger volume of games to satisfy more people? Don't know the answer to that. You know, I'm just posing the question. But these are the kind of conversations we have. You ask what I do all day. Well, one of the things is that conversations like that. Right. It makes sense. Although sometimes I have that conversation with myself at 2 in the morning.
    94:28
    2 in the morning last Wednesday, I guess the Wednesday before, at 2 in the morning, you know, I'm going to be only a little gross, but I'm 75. You know what I wake up and do at 2 in the morning? Yeah, of course. Well, I looked at my email, and at 1.47, I had an email from a customer in Finland, from Ilka. And ILCA sent through a new EU regulation, which just was announced the day before and went into effect that morning, adding a 25% retaliatory tariff on a laundry list of products, agricultural products, machinery products, pinball machines going to the EU. So, you know, we've actually had a few more games available in America because we've got to restructure and see what's going on with the EU. What have I done? What do I do as CEO? I spend a lot of time with my European and Washington, D.C. council and with different trade associations trying to figure out what happens next. And basically, they're waiting for Biden to take office to get in and then to negotiate. Because this is part of a 16-year dispute over commercial airline planes, over Boeing and Airbus getting subsidies. You're calling the cross. Well, we're collateral damage. We're being held hostage. The general vibe is that, you know, when Biden takes over, this may be just done away with. Is that the hope? Then they'll negotiate. Okay. I think it'll go away tomorrow. No, he's got, you know, a lot of things to take care of. He's got a COVID. He's got an economy. China probably comes before the EU, dealing with China. You know, he's got a lot of things just, you know, this country, but the world has got a lot of mess up going on right now. Right. And a lot of people who, you know, are on different sides of different issues. So we've got a lot of people to try and get together. And this is not just our country. But I think we're getting far past a pinball conversation. That's true.
    96:27
    We're talking about this tariff and all that. I was wondering, like, is there not like a crack team of stern mechanics running around the building, pulling European coin mechs out of, you know, machines and turning them into American versions? We certainly, in our build, we do convert games back and forth. And with the Spike games and the last things and stranger things, we have a system where we have export games and American games. You know, Canada, Mexico. Most European games are very similar. It's very easy to make, unless the door requires changing. Italy has a different door. Australia has a different door. Most of the other doors are the same. Line cords are different, so you just put in extra line cords. You stick a line cord in, we have a slot, we can put a line cord in. In Canadian and American games, there's a coin door difference. Mexico is the same, and there's just a different line cord for Brazil. So we can divide the world in half and simplify it. We've done some of that, we've converted some of the export games to American. But more than that, we changed the build, which was an instant turmoil of changing the build. say, okay, let's not build these European games. We contacted the customers. They need to adjust and see what's going on. So we made more America's games and less export games. And exports are misnomer because Canada and Mexico and South America are technically export, but those are America's games. I want to jump a little bit ahead from where we were going to talk here and talk to you a little bit about some of the changes that have come about since you've been in pinball and your take on them because obviously there's been a ton of them and there's been a few that i just wanted to get your feel for because they they were so it's such a drastic shift in what you what you know we were used to pinball being in the past like for instance the action button on the lockdown bar how do you feel about that is that something that you like or that you don't like we put the action button you know they've been used off and on over the years and And in fact, there was an old Willie patent for multiple action buttons, as I remember. I can't quite remember what it was, but there was something there. And we at one point had our tournament button up there, if you remember. Yes. Yeah. If you look at a Belgian bingo, it's got buttons up there, or Old Valley bingo. Steve and I were, we hadn't had a button up there for a long time. And we were in Michigan, outside of Detroit. I had some little college there. He said he wanted to have a button there. I said, okay, you get it. I guess it was Terminator. You get it on one game, and then I get it thereafter as a credit button. Because the casual player, you watch people go up to a game, and two things they don't know. One is how to start a game, and the other is how to use the third flipper, to even know it's there. And, you know, we've done things like whack it, you know, so they see it, like catch the ball in front of it and drop it slowly in front. we've shown people at the Bar and Nightclub show I'd sit there and show them they still wouldn't be able to use it but I miss it there's a lot of games that I play and I hit the button for the third flipper there's no third flipper on it it's just crying for a third flipper so I said I get that button for the credit button and it really didn't happen for a while and now they humor me by putting it up there for the credit button temporarily But part of the problem is a lot of people, I can remember we used to put, Camelco and I, we used to put an arrow to the start button, a decal arrow going down over the arch to the start button. We tried everything with this. Lit, unlit, a big button, but then if you have the big button, somebody leans in it and starts the game as they're playing it by accident.
    100:25
    Big thing is a lot of people, they were used to video games, and the video game start button is where? On the control panel. That's right. So they couldn't find our button. So I was all for it because I got it after that game, and then I didn't get it, and now I partially have it. Right. Well, you know, speaking of pinball tech, now as far as creating new games, there's been stories that go around. You know, Gary came back and looked at the game, and he's like, the multi-balls have got to come up faster. You know, you definitely have your opinion on things. now have you this is sort of a two-part question have you ever come back to see you know a designer's new game and actually had a wow moment when you saw something that they created and also is it true that if anybody uses drop targets in their game you make them yank them out actually i make them put them in some of our games don't have drop targets because they have other physical state change things but i have insisted drop targets i've insisted drop targets You'll see more spell outs and points on play fields nowadays than you did before. Things a casual player can understand. You know, you have a bank of targets and you have icons that relate to other icons on the play field somewhere. And, you know, if you don't know the title, you don't know the icon. Right. But if you've got, you know, a spell out, Iron, we know, you know, when we did Iron Man, we did it in a survival mode. and it was done right after Buck Hunter. The reason I wanted to do Buck Hunter, and we were a very small company at that point because we were shrinking at a shrink. And the reason I wanted to do Buck Hunter, three reasons. One is I wanted to work with Eugene Jarvis and have some of his magic rub-offs. In other words, some of his knowledge. The next was I wanted video game operators who were operating Buck Hunter to put pinball next to it. That didn't work. And the next was I wanted to get onto a Raw Thrills server, and neither they nor us were ready for that. So, any event, if you look at Iron Man, which is a great earning game, and a little bit hard for you competitive players because it's what it is, but it's got points, it's got spell out monger, you know, so forth. You know, you got a toy in the middle that comes up, and you see what to do. Now, originally, I look at the game and the monger is down between games. I said, there's nothing on this play field. You've got to have the monger up. And they said, well, then everybody will know it's there. I said, yeah. And the second time they play the game, they're going to know it's there. There's a little bit more colorful phrase that goes to that that comes from Eugene that I can't repeat here.
    103:10
    But it's very colorful. but basically they said well Eugene said don't give away the toy don't give it away to everybody I called Eugene and said no I said don't give it away but show it to him but he did it in a more colorful language so we learned some stuff from working with him, you learn from working with other great artists you had said in the past that the Balrog toy and the Lord of the Rings you wanted that to be featured prominently you want to have the wow factor out front and center to draw people into the game. Is that right? That, I spent a fortune on the goddamn thing. Right. And I said, well, nobody's going to get it. And in fact, that game, the way it was originally programmed, it never came out because in the books, the third book, you had to do this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and then you got to fight the ball wrong. Right. Well, great. Now, I am watching, who was the director? Peter Jackson. So I'm watching him on Charlie Rose one night and he says, Well, he added in a love interest. It wasn't in the books. He took poetic license. And I said, wait a minute. He's got a billion-dollar movie. He takes poetic license. And we have to follow this exactly so this $150 toy only gets played, used by two people in the world? Right. We can't take poetic license? Where's the fun in that? It's supposed to be fun. We don't have to follow the story exactly. Right. No, that makes sense. We have to have something from it. In fact, one of the things about Deadpool that George had so much fun is that he could do whatever he wanted. He didn't have to follow the movie story. My father used to say that pinball machines like a movie. It's got to have a good theme, good action, good sound effects, good photography or artwork, good promotion, good distribution. But I always use the same movie as an example. We're not telling any deep story. We're just having fun. This isn't China syndrome telling about nuclear meltdowns. Right. We're having fun. You know, they're not heart-lung machines. They're not serious. Do you feel like there's a place for that, though, Gary? Because there has been a push within the community to have pinball machines with deep stories or story-based games where there's even, like, a save feature and you can get back into where you left off from a progress standpoint. Yes, yes, yes. But, you know, you've got to have, again, back to my father's day, you've got to keep your core but broaden your market. So the art is to have both in there. to have something for that casual player, even if you get that deep, something for that casual player to enjoy. You've got to have a long game. You've got to have deep rules and all that, or you guys are going to get bored. And I'm talking about what I barely know what I'm saying. I'm a casual player.
    105:51
    Most of this stuff I'll never see. I'm old and slow. Remember, you've heard me say in our 15 minutes of play every day, sober I represent the guy that's had a bucket and a half of beer. Right. so yes you need that but you also need that casual player if you're going to have a street market and especially on the pro the reason I bring the pro home is because I'm looking at it from the casual player make the other game as complicated as the premium and deep as you want let's make sure that there's something in that pro for that street guy to get interested because when he's 20 playing that game having a buck and a half of beers in 20 years he's going to I want him to want a game for his home right I don't want him to be so frustrated playing this game that it wasn't fun. Because the whole point of pinball is capital F, capital U, capital N. That's it. Yeah, I mean, you said you're a casual player, but you've been in pinball for so long. At any point, did you say, hey, maybe I'll check out the competitive scene? I mean, you have so many people working with you or for you. I've never been any good. Never. Okay. Harry didn't play. He only watched. Right. You went to Pinnberg the last year that they had it. I saw you walking around. Was that the last year? I thought they had one more year. I think it was the last one, unless I'm misthinking. But did you go often to Pinnberg? And what are your thoughts on that whole situation? I was only there that one time. I thought it was fantastic, absolutely fantastic, both the competitors and, you know, non-competitors. But, again, you became a competitor not by qualifying but by being fast with your computer. Right. Yeah. And so some of those people, you know, just had fun competing. I think that's great, absolutely fantastic. Well, I'm going to bring it back to you. We were talking about toys and things like that. If we're going to bring it back, I'm getting more vodka. Do it. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. Right on. Because otherwise I've got to drink coffee. No, don't do that. It's intermission time, folks. So step right over to our refreshment center for the most extravagant array. Now, remember I said that I don't drink alone, but I feel like I'm not alone. No, you're not alone. I'll have a drink. You're with pals. Okay. So, yeah, we were talking about toys. And by the way, some of the stuff I said about game design, And some of my guys are going to say, he's out of his mind.
    108:05
    That's okay. Listen, you're the boss. That's right. Yeah, but being the boss doesn't quite work that way in this world. Whether you have to answer to a bank or a shareholder or the employees, you can't tell people this is how you're going to create. Right. Just like I said, you know, with a title, we've got to be sure that somebody wants us, that their creative juices will flow for that title. You can't dictate this stuff. This is creative stuff. And all these guys are game guys. The software guys aren't coders. They code, but they're rules creators. Yeah, you've got to be incredibly creative to do that, to keep it fresh and to keep it interesting for the high-level players. And unique each time out, too. Yeah. Okay, so back to toys, damn it. That's right. Frenchie loves his toys. Yeah. All right, we've been criticized once or twice about maybe not asking the tough questions, and so I'm going to ask the tough question. Now, I'm sure it's no secret to you that Stern was heavily criticized over Star Wars being barren, or at least appearing to be so. Like, it was not a world under glass. There was a Death Star, and there was a TIE fighter, and that was it. You know, anybody who comes up and walks up there and looks at that, it just looks like maybe it's a, you know, a star fighter game or something. Let's see, in the little video display that was, you know. Obviously, there's more things, but people said it at a glance. I want to ask, instead of having a video display, should we put another toy there? Yeah, I mean, there's dollars and cents. Yeah, that, or maybe it would fall under the, you know, sort of Harry Potter field, where you've got such a massive license. We're doing good. First of all, remember that I've made, you know, I, we, because I don't really, they don't let me use tools, so I haven't made any of the games. I can hurt myself, but we've made Star Wars quite a few times. Right. They each had Star Wars. Yeah. We had the gold one and the one before that. So Star Wars, we've done a bunch of times. We've done Batman a bunch of times. So we have old history from the old Lucas Ranch days and what have you. And I also want to tell you that as an earner through the operating side, game earns great. Yeah, the title will sell it. You know, titles, a game's important, title's important. Real estate is location, location, location. Let's talk a little bit about what you're putting into a game and what you're trying to bring that's fresh and new. Is there an undercurrent or a desire to always innovate, always bring something new, or are you kind of looking out there at the other pinball companies and the other landscape, or the rest of the landscape, and saying, let's look at what's successful for a Jersey Jack, and then if it does well, we'll incorporate it, or do you always want to be at the forefront of the latest and greatest? How come you don't do a video of this?
    110:47
    Every once in a while. We find it easier for our guests if we don't do video, but if you want to, we can throw it on. No, no, no, no, no, uh-uh. Gary doesn't have his pants on. I just look at the camera having a line through it, you know, because it's not on. So do we look at other people's product? Yeah. Yeah, I can't say excessively. How much do they play a role? Do you ever see something that they're doing and say, we've got to do that? Or do you say, you know, we're going to do our own thing and it doesn't matter what anyone else does? Yeah, it's easy but safe to sit back and let them create and then ride on their backs. That's guaranteed success because you know they did something that works. You're going to do the same. Or then there's risk in being the forerunner. Pretty much we do our own stuff. The only competitor game we own is that once brought a game from Spain. It had to do with cabinetry. But we don't own anybody else's games. I've seen them at shows. I can tell you some funny stories, but I'm not right now. I think I don't want to talk about it. That's fair. Having said that, and again, we have our style. I don't think anybody's making what we make. I really don't.
    112:01
    You can mention any of them, and I'll tell you a great difference between what they're doing and what we're doing. Buying a Stern game, it just comes with a pedigree. It comes with a Stern pedigree, and that means a whole lot. We have to develop a lot of games. You have to support a lot of games. Pat and his crew, Eddie Yates joined us in the Pablos there.
    112:21
    Unfortunately, Chaz passed away. But a lot of games we service, and a great service crew, make that many games and you have different issues. And you mentioned our Cornerstones. Those are the kind of games that we like to make. Those levels of games with plenty in the premium, with the collector version, the LE, and, of course, with the operator and the homeowner and many versions of the pro. But also, you know, the pin. The pin's a great play in game, right? Yeah, I've played it, played a couple of different pins, and they're very fun. And marketed, according to George when we talked to him, more to the home buyer. It's not for your audience, per se. It's for if you have somebody in your audience who wants to get something for their kids, you know, to have it, their young kids or something, or their older kids, what have you. Right. I don't know how that's 100% true, because I know that there's a real big pinballer, Ron Hallett, who is buying the Star Wars, the pin, because he prefers it over the other models. Oh, interesting. You might be selling it a little short, Gary. It is a pinball for me. It is something I, it's got drop targets, it's got, you know, you shoot through the drop targets, so, you know, you get to the ramp, it's got multiple ramps for spellouts and everything else. It's just, it's a fun game. Yeah. And it doesn't have those deep, deep rules. Yeah, that's true. And you've talked about, you know, drop targets and other things, other features in games that kind of harken back to some of the older games that you've made. And there's always been an air of nostalgia for people who are in this hobby who think back fondly of the older Stern Electronics games and that sort of thing. We kind of picked George's brain about this, but I want to ask you about it, too. Have you ever wanted to rerun some of those Stern Electronics games? I mean, the demand is certainly there. Yes, but here's the problem. And, in fact, you know, mentioned Pinberg. We had lunch, Eric and I, with Cointaker folks. Okay. They sponsor our show. Ah, do they? Well, good. Cointaker. Thank you. We just shipped a bunch of games into the month with them. A problem is that, first of all, you know, there were some great games. Steve Kirk did a meteor nine ball and stars. Stars. Yeah. Nine ball. Steve was an unrewarded talent, only in that he was difficult. Okay. Yeah. Any event, but very interesting, very creative. And these games were drop target games. That's why I'm a drop target guy. The old Stern games were drop target games. Well, people say, okay, if you make that game, it should be a lot less than a pro. Why? Because they have less electronics? No. We use the same electronic system for everything. Do you want no display? You want us to use drum units? or you want us to use the old gas discharge displays or what have you, those would be expensive today. You want us to simulate that on LCD? Okay. You don't want ramps on it, so we're going to save some ramp costs. But what is out of the game but the ramp costs? They say, yeah, you should make the old games, and they should be a lot less than your pro. No, because low volume and so forth, they'll probably be more than a pro. And that's because they're more expensive. Think about, there are drop target games. The only thing they don't have of a modern game today is RAM and an LCD. And in place of the LCD there a more expensive outdated score reels or gas discharge display which you have to simulate on an LCD Right You know the Quicksilver for instance or you know Stars or something that very very sought after they go for very high prices but I don know what the mass market appeal would be you know outside of the pinball, hardcore pinball enthusiasts. No, the volume would be low. The volume would be low, and, you know, I believe in licensed games for the mass market. Yeah. Surprise, surprise. I can tell you, Gary, that I have a Stars, and my topper for my Stars is the Gary Cern bobblehead. That's the only game I have.
    116:11
    I hope he didn't put it in the money went to charity. That's right. He seems to follow the ball wherever it comes. That's right. It's like the Black Knight topper. One of the games that, you know, movie people, you know, movie companies, they want to put pinballs in their movies. And they keep contacting us specifically about Meteor. And I have to say, well, that's great. Denise, my ex-wife and I, we believe we own the IP from the old store. And when I say believe, you know, it was 1984. God knows what's happened in that time. Meteor, I said, great, but you need to get to the license order, because that was the license title. It's a Sean Connery movie. But by the way, nobody knows who owns that IP. It was like 1980. What the hell? Well, in keeping with the theme of this interview going all over the place, fueled by a model of vodka. You're doing that very well. Let's continue that theme. Let me ask you something about your secret weapon at Stern. Miss Shelly Sachs, who goes all the way back to the founding days of Data East. Oh, no, no, no. Shelly goes to old sperm. Shelly and I, she'll know the date. Late 70s. Yeah, we've been together since late 70s. Shelly and I have been together since late 70s, I think it is. How has she figured in things in the past? It was Shelly, you, and Joe that started Data East, right? Shelly and I, we were between companies. I was doing the, with Steve Kirk, the kit, Finstar's Gamma Tron. I proved, not single-handedly, but in conjunction with Midway, with Dave Moravsky, I proved that kits don't work in pinball. And I can explain that to you. Williams didn't learn the lesson because they tried it. But if you'd looked at us, you would have seen that it didn't work. But we were working out of my garden basement, shall we say, in the townhouse. And I was selling other stuff. And we put together a business plan. and Joe came over when we presented it to the Californians and Japanese in my living room. That was after Stern Electronics, in between Stern Electronics and Davies Pinball, which is Stern Pinball today. Right. So she's been around. Her business card reads JOTE, which stands for Jack of All Trades. So she's done everything, and now she does all the shipping. Single-handedly, she shipped 223 games today. Not in containers. Most of those were small shipments. Wow, that's cool. Let's look to the future a little bit, because I know that one of the things that you've hinted about on previous interviews, but we haven't quite seen yet from Stern, is Internet connectivity. And that opens a lot of doors for additional business opportunities and gameplay opportunities. So, you know, without spoiling your plans, but obviously please do if you want to, what do you see as some of the benefits of Internet-connected machines? You know, this is George's thing, and as much as I know about it is not enough, But also, it's much more than downloading code and a couple machines talking to each other. Right. Much more than that. And much more than paying for your game with your phone. Right. And I'm going to leave it at that, but it's much more. Stand by. Yeah. For instance, major gaming companies like PlayStation or Xbox, you know, they have subscription models and that sort of thing. And obviously, you know, you don't have to go into this if you don't want to, but is that something that you would ever see being a part of pinball in general? Maybe not Stern, but with any other internet-connected pinball machines paying for code or paying for downloadable content, that sort of thing? Can I just see something where somebody was trying to, they're trying to do a, you know, just code updates, you know. There's a certain amount you've got to give people with the game. There are other special things that maybe, you know, we do have an insider group already, you know, that gets special stuff and pays something for it. So, you know, both sides. But, again, I am 75. This is way past me. Okay. Fair enough. So whatever I tell you would probably not make any sense. So maybe I'll skip my question about virtual reality. Yeah. Oh, wait. No, hold it. Hold it. Okay. Wait. Remember, everything pinball, we have digital pinball. We're reworking at what we want to do with that. We're doing stuff with Farsight, and we're letting them continue to publish what they got. But you remember that we had virtual pinball with... Were you with Oculus for a while? With Oculus. So at the CES show, I am playing, I don't know if it was Star Wars virtual, with the headset on and all that, you know. And, I mean, I was great. I was better on the virtual than on the terrestrial pinball. And Jody Dankford looks at me and says, yeah, we slowed it up for you.
    120:53
    Well, I mean, do you think that would ever be something that could be a reality? Maybe not for many, many years, but I can see something like augmented reality where you have glasses on and it superimposes certain 3D objects on the play field, on a physical play field. Yeah, they tell me that augmented reality is the real deal. We're virtual. And I don't mean in pinball. I mean in games in general. People came up with all these virtual games. It was funny. I was listening to this guy, Bacchus, who was the head game guy for Dave and Buster's. And a very intelligent speech and presentation. And he talked about virtual. So there's a place for some of these, but not taking over the whole world. The people who are really into virtual, evangelists for virtual games and so forth, are mostly guys who are making virtual games. Right. Not players, but guys making virtual games. But I hear that augmented is the real deal. It seems like something that would be a perfect marriage for the physical and the virtual, where you can bring a degree of, you know, that virtual reality to a physical game. The old Pinball 2000 trick, you know, with the monitor and, you know, sort of mimicking that in a way. Something similar, yeah, but obviously more advanced than... Oh, definitely. Well, you know, Gary, if they could build new games before they come out in virtual reality, you could just throw in Oculus at home and test out all the new games. without having to lug shit up and down the stairs of your apartment. Well, largely it's elevator building. Okay. Well, that makes it a little bit nicer, but still, you know, you wouldn't have to drag things around. And Gavin does it for me. Nice. Yeah, well, nice. Yeah, we get paid for it, but, you know, he does. I moved the first one in here, you know, when I started keeping them again. So I put it in the truck, and I brought it over myself, and one of the guys in the building helped me put it on the coffin dolly, And I brought it up myself, and he actually wheeled it up with me. I put the legs on and so forth with the dolly back. But when it came time to take that game out and put the next one in, I said, let's call it Gavin. This is too much.
    122:54
    Back when you wore a younger man's clothes. It was a year or two ago. You know? Not much. I moved games before you guys were born. That's right.
    123:06
    That's funny you say that. We're going to talk about that later on. Hey, you know, we're always seeing pinball featured in some way in advertising. Recently, Ray-Ban released a commercial. But, you know, pinball is in everything from car commercials to goldfish craggers. You know, what makes pinball so great for selling products? And how often is there an approach to help with this kind of marketing? We get more calls from movie companies constantly. And if you look at what we really want to do with private label, the beer game, can't crush it, was what we want to do. They used it for marketing. and the thing is there's just not a lot of marketing money right now for doing something like that because with COVID but having said that pinball is just cool so it's cool again and getting more and more cool you know especially we because we're you know we're the ones driving all this the other guys make some interesting games you know do some stuff but you know we're driving this we're spending you know a lot of time and effort and money with social media, news media. You guys got to spend thousands on doing things like CES and stuff like that, which you know. No, no, no. Thousands? Tens of thousands. CES is really expensive. I know. We don't sell a game there. Yeah. But you get a lot of press, and that's what, you know, so basically all this is about creating a global lifestyle brand built on the iconic and outrageously fun modern American game of pinball the professional pinball for generations to come. What's that piece of paper down there? And Stern Pinball, not Gary Stern, when I say Stern, but that's what we're doing. All right, I've got to tell you another story. So talk about Stern, and you know, the company's not me, it's a lot of people. And yeah, they use me a lot, and they, you know, as standees of me, and they use my pictures, Stern Army, which is another thing that we created the start army to get people in playing games and in fvcs and in bar arcades and what have you you know everything to create you know a bigger community so i want to be sure you know to me i'm not going to be here forever i want to be sure it continues i was in in a bar that i saw a number of years ago business cards they had business cards different business one was a taxidermist so i called him and i you know i told him what i wanted i got a quotation, when I die, the taxidermist who's taking me is going to stuff me, have moving eyes, put me in the coppersmith, and I am going to watch them forever.
    125:39
    That's not creepy at all, Gary. That's going to go over well, I think. That's a perfect segue to my next question. Okay, hit it. Now, you've turned 75 this year. You've had a rich, illustrious career in pinball. You've already built a legacy. There's nothing you're working towards as far as that's concerned because you've already done it. As detailed in the new book, Keeping the Ball Alive, 30 Years of Stern Pinball, which is getting sent out now, which is cool. When do you think you'll turn the keys to the building in for keys to a Florida condo? You know, just to start enjoying life? Good question. I am enjoying life and I enjoy what I do and I enjoy the work. But having said that, yes, and my partner, Dave, is a little short of mid-60s and so forth and very, very active in the business as executive as I am. We will seek, whether internal or external, a younger, which anybody's younger than me, a CEO, and I can be chairman or chairman emeritus or whatever it is, and they can just wheel me out or stuff me and wheel me out, as the case may be. You could be like the Colonel Sanders of Stern. Yeah, something like that. And every time we change the business, we sold it to Sega, we bought it from Sega, we did this, we did that. We did what we call walk the white head around, which meant that Gary had to wander around and show me what's done here. But the point is, it's very important to me that this business continues past me. Okay, yeah, it's in my estate, but big deal. Pitball is, you know, the family's advocation, my father before me. And more important, there's a lot of people that make their, who are responsible to, they make their living off of this. So it's not like, hey, I'm done, goodbye. It's all gone. We have to ensure the continuation for the customers, you all, but especially for the 300-plus people that we employ and the 3,000 others that make part of their living supplying goods, parts, or whatever it is to us in the extended supplier community. You know, this is capitalism. We're very proud to be American manufacturers. I'm not saying we'll never make some part of it somewhere else, but we are American manufacturers. and we provide work for people. And it's capitalism. Capitalism at its best. And it's what it's supposed to do. So, you know, as to what I will do, I wanted to go snowboarding. I've had an apartment in Vail since 1978. And I wanted to go snowboarding this month. I never go Christmas to New Year's. A, it's too crowded. And B, I am always in the factory on the last day of the year. In fact, one time they had, the last truck left and I was still in it. and they're laughing as this guy pulled out. You know, the doors hadn't been closed yet, and I was in there counting games to see we got the right number in. So, you know, I always am there to see the last games go, because I'm old school. I'd like to be going snowboarding next week, but I'm not, because I'm just not. I haven't been on an airplane since mid-March, and you guys know that I travel constantly. This thing, this kind of, I got things to do here, and I'm waiting for it to settle up. And I have three Harleys, three, you know, they're not brand new, but they're perfect. A boat, an old boat that I love, an apartment, not in the high-rent district, but it's still, the value's going up. Everybody wants to get out of the cities and go to places like Vail, which, unfortunately, people with diseases are going there. So I am here. So, yeah, I do things, you know, and I traveled a lot, and I was very happy and will be very happy, but I have to, I'm spending too much time on this, I have to solidify the continuation. this big ball company. Because without this company making 11, 12 new SKUs a year, you're going to have two or three new games a year. You know, think about it. One, two, three. I can think of three. I'm not including some of the newcomers or those who disappeared. But, you know, three new models a year. Is that going to keep this going? Probably right. Our guys creating all these games and all, you know, and us pouring all the money back into getting, making more games and grow this business to create a global lifestyle brand, is what makes this all continue. Now, do you think when you decide that you're going to be content with being the Colonel Sanders, so to speak, of Stern, that George Gomez would be a rightful heir? Maybe. On the other hand, maybe he's just happy with his design studio and being creative, because it would take him out of being creative, wouldn't it? Right. Well, I don't know about that. He could do both. No, no, he's busy. He's busy. It can be one or the other. This is too big an endeavor. Remember, he's created a design studio that's his. And he's got 50-ish people in-house. And Joe was Zynga in Chicago. And every time I would go see Joe, Joe Camacombe, you all know what I'm talking about. Every time I would go see Joe, somebody would walk up to me and say, Oh, I'm so-and-so, I work for you. Because we have every animator in town has probably worked for us now or at one time. Chuck gets, you know, he finds them everywhere and they're all animated for us it takes so many people to do the animation we knew when we went to LCD that it was going to be a monster and originally George thought okay, this is how many minutes we got in the dot matrix so we'll have the same number of minutes in the LCD no, no, no, no, no a lot more content well Gary, you're clearly one of the coolest 75 year olds out there riding Harleys and snowboarding And I'm sure that when you look back on all of your time in pinball, you've got a lot of fond memories about things. But when you personally think about what you've done, what would you hope that you would say your legacy was when the time is right to retire? I don't have a legacy. I'm a businessman. And, you know, let's not make it too much of me. I've kept the business alive for many years and ups and downs because, you know, that's the kind of business it had been. And now we've got it solidified with the help of my partner of understanding and how to make it more of a stable business. It will continue for the people, you know, that continue working it. It's not me. This is not an ego trip of any stretch. The only reason the company is named Stern is not for me. It's because Sam Stern, my father, was Mr. Pinball and had a big following in the commercial business. This company is not named for me. And it's not me. It doesn't build my ego. I'm way past ego building. I'm way past. I don't have the truth to anybody but myself and my family. It's not my accomplishments. It's a lot of people's accomplishments. Everybody that works there, from the line worker to all the way up. They built, I think, 1,400-some games this month out on that line. And that's the supervisors and the line and the parts people and everything else. They should be very proud. You know, Gary, that can be your legacy is the people of Stern and not so much Stern itself. Yeah. And again, we provide work and they provide work. Everything's good. And, you know, I don't think of legacy. I think of business and its continuation for its customers, its people, its workers, its suppliers. It's capitalism. and it doesn't come or go with me. Capitalism at its funnest. Yeah, at its funnest. I like that. Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt that you've created that and that the company will survive for a long time. I mean, it seems to me, as an outsider, that it's positioned, at least in the pinball market, as by far the leader and doing very well. I mean, you yourself said that there's a huge backlog currently of titles and you have more in the pipeline, you know, three years planned out for the next title. So that's really exciting. Thank you. And I'm thanking you for all of my coworkers. Once again, there's no I in team. They're all working hard. And especially under these circumstances. This is just crazy what's going on. It is. And, you know, it's amazing how well Stern has done, even though you did shut down for a while. Oh, yeah, that was painful and costly. Very costly. But have bounced back significantly, right? I mean, this is an environment now where people are wanting to buy these toys to play at home, as opposed to maybe taking a vacation. There's extraneous income that they can use for symbol. Absolutely correct. Absolutely. And certainly things open up. Some people are going to want to take vacations or they're going to want to go out to their local out-of-home entertainment place. And, you know, we're hoping that many of them do very well and get through this. Some will, some won't. Likewise, game companies. Some will, some won't. But this company, again, is well-positioned to it. And I will go again and I will repeat what these people have done with multiple models available, multiple games coming out with all the social media accessories, merchandise, events, so forth, competition television shows or stream television shows. You know, all of that is building this for everybody. And that will increase the community. And again, you'll have core that are really excited. And you'll have borderline people who will be interested, you know, the homeowners, whatever. And you'll have people going out to commercials. It's just a cycle. We're going to run more and more people through it to grow it and continue it and perpetuate it because we have to create a global lifestyle brand built on the icon. I mean, I'm talking about a game of pinball that perpetuates pinball and the rapidly growing, adrenalized global community of pinball fanatics for generations to come. I love it. Can you say that without the sheet of paper? I bet you get it. You've got to get it. It's not a sheet of paper. The camera's not on, right? No, it's not on.
    135:37
    You got any more questions? That is it. That's not it. That concludes the traditional part of this interview. Now we're going to get into a very small, untraditional part of this interview, and that is that I would be extremely remorseful if I didn't take this time that we have you on the show to say a few things to you. The first thing I want to say is that this has been a great experience. And the time that we had worked together, I never really had a chance to sit down and talk with you about things. So I really had a good time. I really enjoyed doing this with you and, you know, seeing the different side of you. And on top of that, mostly I want to apologize for some of the things that I've done in the past that has kind of queered our friendship. You know, there was a time where I would get a phone call from Joe Kamenko when I was at a convention somewhere. And he would say, like, you know, do you have, like, Guardians of the Galaxy art print on your table? And I'd say, yeah. And he's like, you've got to get that off the table. Somebody saw it and told Gary, and Gary called me, and I'm calling you. You can't do that. And I'm like, Joe, you know, I've been in licensing for 25 years, and I know the rules, and I know that for some reason when you're an artist, they look the other way. They know you're not selling something so much to make a profit as you are offering something to put a signature on. But the one thing that I missed in all of those phone calls with Joe was that I never considered your feelings in that. And you didn't subscribe to that. You didn't understand that, and that's all that should have mattered to me was that, you know, like I can say all I want to Gary, but he doesn't get it. He doesn't understand it. So that just means this is his property. This is his pinball game. This is the money he has invested in this license, and I should respect that, and I should do something about it. And, you know, since then, I have not done anything along those lines. You know, this year when we were going to go to TTF, I'd actually done a JAWS translate for a game that doesn't even exist, and that was all I was going to bring. I said, here's just something to offer people. There's no ties to any game whatsoever, and that was the plan moving forward. So I want to apologize for not looking at it that way and being argumentative about that the whole time. It was really stupid of me, and it puts you in a bad position, and that's embarrassing, and it's embarrassing. You know, Joe is a really good friend. I know, obviously, that he's a good friend to you, and he's a good friend to me, and to have him playing like this sort of tennis net in this match between you and I going back and forth was extremely foolish. So I don't know what more I can say, but, you know, that was a really stubborn, stupid part of my life that I really regret, and I really want to apologize. You know, I think you're a great guy, and I marvel at your accomplishments of what you've done over the years and what you've done, as you say, for so many people and your employees. And I really respect that, and I respect you as a person. So just, you know, please accept my apology for being that way. I totally accept your apology. You're a big person for doing that and saying that. I accept it, and I do have to tell you that I'm protective of the physician with the licensor. It's the licensor's property, and that's what I was protecting. So I accept your apology. I understand, you know, the difference.
    138:39
    I totally accept your apology. Thank you very much. Thank you. You're a gentleman to do that. Thank you. I accept your apology completely. That's awesome. I appreciate it. I love you, Gary. That's really nice.
    138:53
    It's pinball. Thank you. It's been fun, guys. It has been. Thanks very much, Gary. I'm going to have to have a drink before I go to bed now. Awesome. It's been a real honor. And, Gary, while I have your ear, I just want to thank you for everything you've done for pinball, honestly, and for the hobby in general. It's been an honor getting to talk to you. And after all this COVID is over, because right now nobody comes in the factory. We don't do any tours right now. But you guys got to come by. Love to. Maybe we'll have a real pinball expo here next year. Maybe some of these shows will start again. Anyway, thanks, Gary. All right, guys. Thanks very much. Have a great night, Gary. That was great. And there you have it, the grand poobah of pinball, Mr. Gary Stern. That was surreal, man, and pretty damn special. What a perfect interview, man, for a one-year anniversary show. It's been an absolute blast podcasting with you, Chris, and I'm really grateful that you brought me on this adventure with you. And thanks to everyone who has written us and encouraged us to keep doing the show. We really do appreciate that feedback. And besides having a lot of fun, we really wouldn't be doing this if people didn't enjoy it. So, Chris, before we leave, I want to read off an email that we got recently. And this is the stuff that keeps us pumped to do this show. This is from a gentleman named Jeff. And he sent us an email that just said, congratulations. I'm sending you this to say thank you for providing easily the best pinball podcast for one year. I contacted you not long after you started sending you some dessert praise. And you posted my comment on your Facebook page. It made me really happy. I'm an extreme enthusiast that watches, listens, and plays all forms of pinball constantly, and your podcast is one of the best things in the hobby. Thanks, Jeff. Oh, no, not another guy named Jeff in pinball. He has it as a postscript, so I thought that was pretty awesome. And, you know, man, we have a lot of great ideas of things to do moving forward, but if it wasn't for feedback like that, I don't know if we'd be as pumped to do it. So thank you, Jeff, and thank you everyone else who's written similar emails to us over the last year. It really does mean a lot. Yes, thank you. And Christian, I couldn't ask for a better co-host myself. I think I've not only grown as a podcaster, but as a person, having someone like you around to keep me from being an asshole.
    140:58
    For lack of a better word. I love it. Actually, I have really seen a different side of Franchi. I've always loved you, man, but I think that over the last year, you've been a great friend, a great co-host, obviously, and someone that I consider, you know, family. So as cheesy as that is, thanks for bringing me into this, man. Happy to do it. And I think what you've done is you've taught me to take the high road more than I normally would. Because there's been plenty of times where I've gotten into people's shit on our show, and at the end of the day, you're like, dude, you need to take that out of the show.
    141:31
    Yeah, but honestly, the fact that you've done it, though, it really means a lot to me because you realize that taking the high road is usually the better route, and not all podcasters do that, and I think the product that we put out is better for it. Yep, definitely. You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch. You really are. Oh, hi. Sorry. I was singing Christmas carols. This is Christopher Franchi, and I'm sorry to interrupt, but when I talk emotional, mushy things in front of Christian, I tend to get a little watery-eyed, and I didn't want to do that. So I wanted to take this moment to let you know that the past year working with Christian has been amazing. He is really one solid stand-up dude. He is somebody I would trust with my life, and I've got to tell you, he has put up with a lot this past year. Other podcasters always calling it Franchi's show and things like that. You know, that's got to suck when you put in just as much effort as I do, but, you know, he's the kind of guy who just lets that bounce off. And whenever I do something stupid or say something stupid, he's kind of representing that too because he's part of the show, and he's put up with that. He's put up with me. He's been a great, outstanding partner. I couldn't ask for anybody better, and I just wanted to thank him. And I also want to thank all the sponsors of our show, Chris and Melissa at Cointaker, everybody at Chicago Gaming, and Matt Reister over at Back Alley Creations. Thank you so much for supporting the show for the past year, and we look forward to continuing the relationship with you guys in the future. We know you love the show. You know we love our sponsors. So happy holidays, everyone. So thanks, buddy. I've had a great year. I'm looking forward to the next year. And speaking of, it's your birthday. Oh, yeah. Yes, it is, man. December 4th. Let's take a moment to dance.
    143:12
    Oh, doctor, it's your birthday. Roger, this thing is huge. That's what she said. Okay. Wow, that's so light. That's it.
    143:28
    All right, I have it. Okay, now, during the past week, you have received a giant box in the mail. Do you have it with you, sir? I have it right in front of me. In fact, it says Sir Christian Line. And this thing is sizable, man. What the heck did you send me? Is it a pinball machine? Now it's time to open it and find out. All right. Let's do this live on air. I've got my birthday gift.
    143:49
    Danny, tearing it open, folks. Let's see what's in there. Oh, it's a box. In a box. As my girls would say, it's a box. Thank you so much. I love it. Wow, man. This is like Fort Knox. All right. Let me just say before I open this, Chris, that I really appreciate you sending me a gift. That was very, very sweet of you. And this is, uh, this is piquing my interest, man. This is a big, big box here.
    144:10
    It's wrapped in, uh, some pretty impressive styrofoam. You know what, man? People love unboxing videos on YouTube, so this is kind of like an unboxing video for a podcast.
    144:23
    Yeah. I have no idea what's in here. It's another fucking box. Are you kidding? I shit you not. It's the third box. This is like a Russian doll, dude. I'm going to keep opening boxes, I feel like. There's going to be like a tiny gift card or something at the end. Yeah.
    144:39
    How dare you, Chris. Whoa. Okay, so I'm opening this up, and what I'm seeing at the bottom here is a cord, so it's clearly something electronic.
    144:49
    And it's got screws and studs, so it looks like it might be something that you have to mount. And holy crap. Dude, that is unbelievable. All right, so it's a neon sign, and I'm trying to see what this says because it's covered in packing peanuts.
    145:08
    It says... What the fuck does it say? Do you want me to tell you? Yeah, tell me what it says. It's a giant martini glass, and it says cocktails. Oh, I'd love it, dude. I'd love it. That is so cool. That is fucking awesome. And you know what makes it even more special is that we had some cocktails together, and we kind of celebrated hanging out together with martinis. So this is really, really cool. It's in big neon martini glass. There's cocktails across the front, and it is going to look totally badass lit up. Got a little olive. You're welcome. Yeah, I can't wait to plug this thing in and check it out. Every bar needs some neon. I love it. Love it. You know me well, Franchi. It's going to be even cooler. And I'm actually, we're redoing the other side of the basement and there's going to be a bar back there, so this might be a perfect place for that. Right on. I really appreciate it, man. Thank you so much for sending this. You're welcome. Awesome. And now it's time to give our listeners something. The Super 2020 Christmas Stocking Giveaway. Would you like to tell them about the details? All right. So here we go. We have another epic contest for you guys. Our Christmas episode is coming up in just about two weeks, and we have so many cool holiday ideas planned for this show. Another huge interview lined up to close out the year, but I don't want to spoil anything. We're not going to announce who that is, but we are going to tell you about our Christmas contest, and you're going to have some time to enter. It's going to be about two weeks from the airing of this show to get your entries in, and we'll reveal the winner of the Christmas contest on the actual show. So here's how we do it.
    146:35
    Franchi and I love getting stuff in the mail, and Christmas cards are a... So far, which you get. You're full of shit, dude. Finally a chance for me to get something. That's right. We love Christmas cards, and they're a huge thing in my house. We have red ribbons wrapped around all of our cabinets, and as our Christmas cards come in, we staple them onto this ribbon so we can see them throughout the month. So Chris and I thought it would be cool to get some cards from everyone who listens. And the best part is sending us a card will get you automatically entered into our kick-ass holiday contest. So here's how we do it. We both created our own stockings. These are jam-packed full of awesome shit. And you have the chance to win either of them. I have one and Chris has done the other. And you're going to send us a Christmas card if you want to enter. Once you get that card sent to us, we're going to put all of the entries into a big stocking. And I'm going to have one of my daughters randomly pick one. The first one we pick out is going to be Chris's stocking. The second one that we pick will be mine. And I'm going to tell you just a little bit of what is going to come in these stockings on my end. I have no idea what Chris's stocking is, but I'm sure it's going to be pretty awesome. So here are a few things that I put in there. I've got an amazing pinball Christmas shirt. I have a pinball notebook that says, Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you pinball machines. I have a huge bag of Super Awesome Pinball Show and Mrs. Pint Swag. I've got two pounds of candy canes. I have a custom pin gulp that my wife is going to make for you. If you have a pinball machine that you don't have a pin gulp on, all you have to do is tell us the title, and she will customize a decal around a pin gulp for you. A pair of pin shade glasses, courtesy of Jockton from Pin Shades. A giant box of Hershey candy, and a $100 gift card to Pinball Life. So that will be in mine, Chris. God damn, dude. You know, seriously, I was going to say this. You know, we don't share everything we're going to talk about ahead of time, but I was going to say this. I was going to say, look, give Christian stocking a chance. He's a doctor. He's probably got lots of cash. You know, don't just assume that I'm going to have the awesome stocking, and I'm just sitting here listening to your list of stuff, and my jaw's going further down.
    148:46
    I'm like, I'm going to send you a fucking card. All you have to do is throw it. an art print in and you've beaten everything I have. So I've got to try to beat something. That is not true. I kind of feel like I should run down everything now because you just basically told people everything that's going to be in yours. And if I just say, well, I'm not going to tell you what's in mine, they're just going to go for the gold.
    149:12
    Well, they know from you, no matter what you put in there, it's going to be epic. So even if you say like one or two art prints, it's going to be phenomenal. Everyone is going to want that. Yes, I'm tempted to lose what I have. I'm not going to. You had to be the salesman to try and sell your stocking and get all the cards. So let's put it this way, listeners. Now I know what I'm up against, and I'm going to beat that by a fucking mile. Damn it, Grinchy. Well, listen, like I said, man, if you put in a couple of our friends, you're going to have everybody tripping over themselves to get it. I'm sure there will be some artwork in there somewhere. Yeah. We just don't have enough time to go through all the things that will be in my face. That's right.
    149:50
    I love it. Anyway, so, yeah, send us the cards. to Super Awesome Pinball Show at P.O. Box 105, Palmyra, P-A-L-M-Y-R-A, Pennsylvania, 17078. Get the toss as soon as you can because we're going to pull the winners on December 18th. Yeah, so like Christian said, we have to have these in hand or hanging on Christian's cupboards by December 18th. And then we are going to take them all and put them in a big pile. And one of his lovely daughters, if not both, well, actually, one can pull one, one can pull the other. So the first one that comes out of there will be my stocking, and the second one will be yours. So that's awesome. We'll dictate that. We'll do that live on the show on December 18th. Cool, cool. So good luck, everybody. That's our Christmas gift to you, and we'll do that next episode. Well, hey, do you want to give out a little surprise anniversary gift to all the listeners that are tuning in to the very end of the show? That's right. We do have a special anniversary gift to give out. And if you didn't bail, this is your reward for not bailing. We are giving away a copy of Keeping the Ball Alive, the 30th anniversary of Stern, the coffee table book. That's right. You can get your very own copy. Very rare, sought-after book. There's not a whole lot of these made. It is a hardcover. It's the fancy version. And we are going to give that away to you guys. All you have to do is answer this trivia question provided to us by the gentleman from Paper Plot. Which pinball machine title has appeared on a Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade float? There's the question. All you have to do is email us at superawesomepinball at gmail.com with your answer. And the first correct answer will win the book. That's our anniversary gift to you. Happy anniversary, Christian. You too, man. It's been awesome. And thank you very much to Gary Stern for coming on to talk about Peace on Earth, Goodwill Towards Men. It was so good to bury the hatchet with him. Looking forward to a renewed friendship. And thanks so much, Ed, for coming back on the show. It was good to see you. And thank you to all of our listeners who have made the show what it is. We really appreciate the support. And we're looking forward to coming back with more episodes and a whole other year of the Super Awesome Pinball Show moving forward. So we'll see you next episode. And happy holidays. Here's to making 2021 super awesome. Happy holidays, everyone. Cheers. When do you put this up on something to listen to? It will be available for your listening pleasure on Friday. Ah, okay. I'm not going to listen to it. Oh, no.
    152:25
    If you'd like to drop us a line or ask a question, we can be reached at superawesomepinball at gmail.com. Questions or comments may be read on the air. The original content of this podcast is copyright 2020 ASCAP Radio Productions.
    152:37
    The comments, your opinions, shared by the cast and guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the sponsors, Cointaker, Chicago Gaming Company, and Back Alley Creations. Their sponsorships of this show only serve to add to their continuing support of the pinball community. Because we're going to be there.
    152:52
    We're going to get better. What we're doing here ain't just being. It's about to be legendary. Okay, okay, show's over. Bye-bye. Hey, fucking Chalupa sucks, dude.
    153:13
    Now it's time for some funny bloopers. And there you have it, the grand poobah of rock and roll. There you have it, the grand poobah of rock and roll, Mr. Gary Stern.
    153:29
    What the fuck? Rock and roll? Oh. I rarely... I'm sorry to say this. I should listen to what I do because that's how you learn better. But I bore myself, so I embarrass myself, actually. We'll keep your talking to a minimum. Oh, we don't want that. Hold for a second, and I'm going to go get my coffee and, I guess, my vodka. Excellent. I'll be right back. Don't go away because that's not that big an apartment. Hold on.
    154:01
    Hilarious, man. I think this is not good enough for you. It was very satisfying.