Episode 172. Karl DeAngelo. INDISC 2019 is coming!

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·21m 58s·analyzed·Jan 10, 2019

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.026

TL;DR

InDisc 2019 expands with new formats, high-stakes play, and professional streaming coverage

Summary

Carl D'Angelo discusses the 2019 InDisc tournament in Banning, California, covering its expanded format with multiple tournament divisions, new high-stakes card option, 35 machines, streaming infrastructure upgrades, and NeverDrains software enhancements. The event is positioned as a major competitive pinball tournament rivaling PAPA World Championships, now in its second year without PAPA due to facility sale.

Key Claims

InDisc 2019 will feature 35 games across multiple tournament formats
high confidence · Carl states directly: 'just a massive number of games, 35 games this year'
The main tournament uses a card-based format ranking scores comparatively rather than absolute scoring
high confidence · Carl explains: 'We rank your scores just like a Best Game format based on everyone else's scores' with point allocation based on ranking
High-Stakes entry is $50 per card with estimated 40+ expected players, exceeding initial estimates
high confidence · Carl: 'We estimated maybe 40 players, but we're thinking that may be a little low at this point. We've got quite a bit of interest'
Pirates of the Caribbean was adjusted for tournament play with ball plundering disabled
high confidence · Carl: 'I made sure that ball plundering was off. But apart from that, no'
InDisc has grown larger than originally envisioned and is now run by core team of Carl, Jim, Jay Collins, Bob Matthews, and museum curator Chuck Casey
high confidence · Carl describes core crew and notes 'It's gotten bigger than we ever imagined it would'

Notable Quotes

“It's gotten bigger than we ever imagined it would. And we somehow are continuing to do it.”
Carl D'Angelo @ ~3:30 — Reflects unexpected growth of InDisc from niche event to major tournament
“This is easily one of the most difficult tournament formats out there.”
Carl D'Angelo @ ~10:15 — Describes the card-based comparative scoring format as competitive differentiator
“Last year we only had three majors... if there had to be one major, to me, it's InDisc.”
Jeff Teolis @ ~24:00 — Positions InDisc as de facto major tournament replacing PAPA World Championships
“I'm going to Vegas to stream IFPA Nationals and then staying for pin masters. And then a week after that... Texas Pinball Festival. And you've also got the Stern Pro Circuit in March also. So there's four weekends just back to back.”
Carl D'Angelo @ ~29:30 — Illustrates intensive event schedule for content creators; Carl describes March as 'hell month'
“I've got queue times in here starting with Indisc. So you'll be able to see the average play time for a game along with what the wait time should be estimated.”
Carl D'Angelo @ ~34:00 — New NeverDrains feature improving tournament logistics and user experience

Entities

Carl D'Angeloperson Jeff Teolisperson Jim BelsitopersonInDisceventNeverDrains.comproductIE PinballorganizationScorebitproductBanning, Californiaevent_location

Signals

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community_signal: Significant expansion of streaming coverage with wireless camera rig enabling multi-division simultaneous streaming coverage
high · Carl describes 50-pound wireless rig system with 3 cameras allowing <1 minute setup; plans 5-6 hours per finals event streaming coverage (30+ hours total) across 5 tournament divisions
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event_signal: Tournament format innovation: card-based comparative scoring system originating from Popper World Championships gaining adoption at InDisc
high · Carl explains system rewards consistency with comparative ranking of 5-game cards rather than absolute scoring; describes as 'easily one of the most difficult tournament formats'
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event_signal: InDisc positioned as de facto replacement for PAPA World Championships in competitive pinball calendar
high · Jeff states: 'Last year we only had three majors... if there had to be one major, to me, it's InDisc' and suggests Josh Sharpe consider making it an IFPA major; Carl notes PAPA facility up for sale preventing 2019-2020 events
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market_signal: High-stakes tournament format exceeding organizer expectations for entry volume, driven by attractive combo package pricing
high · Carl: 'We estimated maybe 40 players, but we're thinking that may be a little low at this point. We've got quite a bit of interest which surprised both myself and Jim' and attributes uptick to $100 combo package ($20 discount)
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personnel_signal: Sponsorship acquisition efforts for InDisc show mixed results; new sponsorship person replacing previous ineffective representative

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.066

0:00

it's time now for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teels you can find our group on facebook we're also on twitter at pinball profile email us pinball profile at gmail.com and please subscribe on either itunes stitcher or google play it's that time of year again when i'm freezing my butt off here in canada and looking at snow outside there's always some sunshine going on in Southern California. InDisc is back. Carl D'Angelo joins us right now. Hey, Carl, how are you? I'm doing all right, Jeff. We've been cold here. I've been freezing at 55 degrees. I don't know what you're talking about. 55. You can't see the middle finger I'm holding up right now. Today was under 30. Come on, I've got layers on. It's been so cold here. This interview is not going to go well, I can tell you right now. The place I'd rather be is definitely at the wonderful facility there in Banning, California. You know, I was fortunate enough to go last year. InDisc really is, it should be a major, how big the darn thing is. You've done a great job there along with Jim. You've got to be pretty proud of what you've done. Yeah, we really are. And it's been a lot of work. It's gotten bigger than we ever imagined it would. And we somehow are continuing to do it. Jim's putting so much work in all the games. He's doing pretty much all the games this year, along with what the museum is providing. And he's just fixing up those games. A couple of our other guys, Jay Collins, is helping out with getting some games ready, along with one of Jim's techs, I believe. But just a massive number of games, 35 games this year. Well, there's different tournaments, too, and we'll get to that in just a second. But you mentioned Jim and his tech buddy. How many people really do you have there volunteering? I know the event, you've got a lot of scorekeepers and stuff, but as far as the week leading up to it, how many people are really involved? Well, the core crew is Jim, me, Jay, and Bob Matthews is a co-director as well, although he's been out of town lately. So it's the three of us primarily, and then we have Chuck Casey, who's the curator over at the museum, just helping us arrange the tech days, or he arranges the tech days, I should say, and gets the volunteers at the museum to help us out. But that's the primary core. And then we've got some people coming out this upcoming weekend for setup and on the Thursday before, but just a few. Well, this year, it's a little bit different at InDisc. You've got a lot of people playing the machines, but not the same format. That's an interesting change. Do you want to talk about it? Yeah, so this is what the Popper World Championships used to run before they went to Best Game. For the, let's take an example for the main bank. We are taking a five-game card. So you're going to play five individual games, all different out of our bank of 14. We rank your scores just like a Best Game format based on everyone else's scores, and then you submit the ticket. Your value in the tournament is based on the addition of those five games. So if you got first place on two games, you're going to get 200 points per game. You've got, I mean, this is a really good card, of course, but you get third place, that's 190 points. And let's just, you add up all those points, and that's where you stand in the tournament. All your scores on the games stay. So you're competing against yourself in some cases. If you play the same games on every card, it's possible you'll lose some points on older cards if you don't void your existing card. It's a tricky format, but it rewards consistency. it's easily one of the most difficult tournament formats out there. Okay, a guy like yourself will probably play five games and have your ticket done, and then you're in the finals probably with a bye. For the rest of us schmucks who really have to grind it out, what is the best strategy? I mean, if you have, let's say, two amazing games, a stinker, and a couple of mediocre games, but it's still not enough to get you into playoffs, what's the best strategy? But that could be enough. In this format, if you have two amazing games and then two mediocre games, that last one can be a stinker, and you still make it into the playoffs. But apart from that, it's just if you can get consistent on five games, just play those five games. Whatever you feel strongest on, we do have some oddball choices in the bank. I'll say that. Like one that was announced just the other day was Excalibur. I don't think very many people know Excalibur. It's a very rare Gottlieb title. Good marketing, too. There's a new movie coming out this month, The Kid Who Would Be King. So Excalibur, well done. Right, and Patrick Stewart is in that movie, I believe, and that was one of our hints for the trivia that Jim runs. Oh, really? Although it wasn't related to Patrick Stewart in that movie, it was because Patrick Stewart starred in Excalibur back in the 80s. Boy, I know nothing of this.

4:40

You've also announced some other games. What else do you have in disc this year? We have in the main bank, we have Banzai Run, Baywatch, Monster Bash, Mouse and Around, Pirates of the Caribbean, the Jersey Jack, Stargazer, and Warlock. In addition to Excalibur, that's in the main bank. Classics, we're going to have two days of classics. We have ten classics games total, but we're going to use seven each day for the different classic events, so some games will overlap. The five announced so far are Bow and Arrow, Joker Poker, Kings of Steel, Laser Q, and Voltan. And then in the Women's and Kids Bank, we've got Congo, Party Zone, Sorcerer, and then two more. And the High Stakes Bank right now is having a big trivia contest. If someone can figure out all five games they getting a free High Stakes entry So I can put those out there yet even though by the time you play this it may be out there The high stakes entry that a new tournament You I think talked to me about it at IFPA 15 up in Keswick, Ontario, and you said, yeah, we're going to try this. That is something that actually has a lot of people interested. I talked to a few people that were going to the event and a couple of people this weekend, in fact, said, yeah, they're going to do it. And it doesn't matter really the caliber. I mean, you can get lucky and boom, that's a big, big prize pool that you're certainly hoping to have with the high-ticket event. Tell us about that. We're hoping exactly. It's just the same thing. It's going to be $50 per card. So that's why it's high stakes. It's five games. Your card is going to contain four games. And we're just running this experiment. It was an idea I had. We thought we'd run with it, see what the response is. And we estimated maybe 40 players, but we're thinking that may be a little low at this point. We've got quite a bit of interest. which surprised both myself and Jim. And I think one of the reasons is we're introducing a combo card, or combo package available, which is two main entries, two classic entries, and a high-stakes entry for $100. It's a $20 discount. And I think that's giving people the push to just give one entry a try. Yeah, that's a pretty good combo package. I like that a lot, too. I can't believe the number of people that went to InDisc. And there were people from all over. The pecs were there from New Zealand. As they will be again. Martin Robbins made it last year. He came from Australia. He had a bunch of us from Canada. A lot of people, because it is such a great facility, event, and the way it's run, too. I mean, that's the one thing about it. I thought, okay, a lot of these tournaments nowadays, they're capped or they're too packed. One of the two. And it's a scramble to maybe get your ticket before it sells out. That's not the case with Indisc. Have you ever thought about, okay, we're going to cap it at a certain number? No. Hasn't even been in discussions yet. Okay, that being said then, 2019 will be sadly the second year in a row that the Papa event that normally happens in April with the A, B, C division, D and the women's and split flipper and all those classics events, that unfortunately is not going to happen. And we understand why with the building being up for sale. So that makes things a little difficult. I've been there and you've been there, Bain, California. And also with the expertise that you, Bob, Jim and others have, will you ever do something there? Not maybe call it Papa, but something similar to that? I mean, Indisc is almost as close as you can get, especially now with this ticket format.

8:22

We've grown quite a bit, and that's why we're trying these new things and why we brought in the women's and why we brought in kids and now the high stakes. Just to, since we're growing every year, just to give players more and more to do, just make sure that they are satisfied, that they have a good time, that there's enough competition. And then the amazing array of machines at the museum available to play is just astounding. Carl, I'll tell you, last year we only had three majors. We had Pinberg, we had the IFPA Championship, and we had the European Championship. It wasn't the Papa Facility one. And I do believe that if they ever come back, of course, that should be a major. But in lieu of the major missing, if there had to be one major, to me, it's Indisc. I can't think of another one. And forgive me for some great events. I know a ton in Europe. I just am not familiar with, so I don't want to discount any of those. But of the ones I've seen, the next closest thing would be Indisc. So Josh Sharpe, who I know listens to this show, just to hear his name mentioned, you know how he is. If you're listening, maybe give it a consideration. I know it's too late now as the event is right around the corner. But if this is unfortunately going to be a thing that carries on, maybe we need to find that fourth major. And to me, my vote's for InDisc. Thanks, Jeff. That means a lot. It really does. So you've told us about some of the games. And your streaming has taken a whole new level this year. Last year, really, in 2018. I saw what you brought to Freeplay Florida, and that wireless gear was phenomenal. Now, I don't know if you're going to be using the wireless gear here, because when I went to InDisc, every machine had a bank of cameras on it anyway. You didn't need to move things around. So I don't know if maybe that's something easier for the classics or women's or some of the other events that aren't on the main bank. First of all, tell us about your wireless system. I know you and Phil Grimaldi have done amazing things with this. And tell us about the streaming that we're going to be seeing, probably on IE Pinball. for InDisc. All right. So the wireless rig was built from a system called 8020. It's just, they call themselves an industrial erector set. It's just, think of like a doorframe, for those who haven't seen it, just on wheels. You've got three cameras on there all running off a battery pack so we can capture the play field, the score, and the player. And you just wheel this thing right over a game. Takes less than a minute to set up and you're good to go. So it's my favorite thing yet. I absolutely love the thing. Shipping it out to Florida was a great test for me. So it's kind of hard to ship because it big 50 pound beast but it doable I found out For in yeah we have all the cameras We still going to have the cameras on the main bank with all the TVs over every game but we'll be able to cover the classics, the women's, and the high stakes with the wireless rig. So I plan to stream finals for classics one, classics two, women's, high stakes with that rig, and then the main. It's going to be tons of streaming. I mean, you're thinking five to six hours per finals event at least. So multiply that by five, you know, you've got 30 hours of streaming at least. This is a cornucopia of amazing pinball things. Tournament action, great players, amazing games, learning a little bit about the games and the streaming, and with the high quality that IE Pinball does. And, Carl, you've really set the bar, and so many people enjoy this. Even just myself, I'm not going to be there. Just being able to enjoy it on the stream. I mean, that really means a lot, too. So it's also a good promo piece, too, because as I talk about it and others who've been there, now you can see how amazing this event is. So kudos to you on that. Thank you, Jeff. We really could use some sponsors if you have any tips on that or for anyone listening. What have you done for sponsorship? I mean, other than just say it'd be nice to have sponsors, have you had any sales team go out and kind of kick the tires, so to speak? Do I want to go there? That's the question. we did have a certain individual attempting to get a sponsor we put it in his hands for this year unfortunately nothing really panned out so we have a new person coming up so we'll see, so this year may be just a lull and we're looking to see what the future holds after this, see how the streaming goes see how the player base improves and how the viewership online is and hope to use those numbers for the following year had a great time and then just being out in California Actually, it was my first time ever out in California and kind of tried to get as much in as possible. I know there were a bunch of us that went to the Price is Right last year. That was a hoot. So there's certainly a lot of options. And I think there's even a casino nearby, the banning facility. So there's lots to do around InDisc. But, I mean, you're going to be fixated on all those amazing pinball machines. You mentioned some of the games. And one of the games in the bank was the Jersey Jack Pirates of the Caribbean. and when we were in Florida, you were talking about how much you love that game, and I was still trying to figure it out. I've played it, and everyone I know who's played it really enjoys it as well, too. Have you learned a lot more? Is it a good tournament game, do you think? I think it is, which is why it's in there. I convinced Jim, even though he still hasn't played it, to put it in there. I have had to pull some tricks to reduce the ball times. It is a long-playing game, so it's not going to be playing so friendly. But I think it's got enough variety in the strategies that there's no one real way to play it. So it'll be interesting to see how different players, what path they choose, which character they choose, and how they go about playing it. Yeah, I think it's interesting, and I certainly have no concerns about putting up a score, whether it be a herb format or in the Papa Ticket style that you're doing it in disc. But I wonder what it's like for foreplay. Have you done any adjustments for things like the plundering? I made sure that ball plundering was off. But apart from that, no. Everything else should be fair game. That's the one I want to see on the stream because I want to see how it plays. and it's still a pretty new game as far as being out less than a year in the public and people still trying to learn the rules. You've had it for a while. What do you think, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%? What have you learned about that game? Enough to get by, or are you still finding out new things? No, I'm not finding out new things. I mean, maybe a couple weeks ago I saw some posts by Kiefer that opened my eyes to a couple just different scoring opportunities. But apart from that, I think it's already there. everything's uh scoring opportunities are uh are laid out in front of you if you you know can set your multipliers just right you can you can destroy the game or you can grind away at a couple different objectives there's like i said there's really so many different ways to play and with the plundering if you really don't want to be plundered there's that one character that allows you not to be plundered i gotta learn it i really have to learn that game because as far as shooting the game which to me is always the most important thing if the game shoots well you know fingers crossed the code is going to be good. With Key for You, no, the code is going to be good. The game is going to be fun. It's so much to learn.

16:19

That's pretty good. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's a freebie. That's a good one. Then are you shot and killed if you play a pinball machine in April Is that kind of the deal It could be It could be I don have anything in April which is good I kind of been ignoring anything that in April for that reason Yeah it funny how the calendar works out I mean I guess February kind of quiet I'm sure there's a lot of action going on, but yeah, it's back to back. I mean, MagFest was last week. You've got Indisc, and then we get a little lull, and then a lot in Europe this year for the Stern Pro circuit, which I'm tempted to try. You and I both have not been over to Europe to play pinball there. Aren't you kind of itching to see what it's all about? Yeah, it'd be cool to go. It really would be. But it's the expense of the trip and the time away. It's tough to do it. And two, here's the thing about whenever you're fortunate enough to be in Europe, there's other things I want to do than stay and play pinball for 10 hours a day for three days. So I feel like I'm missing out being stuck inside. You know, that's the one thing that's tough. Right, exactly, exactly. And I can never get a trip over there without bringing my family, at least my wife. Yeah, you want to keep that. That's probably a good idea. Like many tournaments, and especially at InDisc, we're going to see your famous NeverDrains.com software. It is essential. As I mentioned on the top 10 most intriguing people episode, the NeverDrains software, so many tournaments use. It is essential to a great tournament, the queuing system. It originated at InDisc, of course, and you're always doing some updates to it. I've noticed a few things. I think last year at InDisc, I noticed the prize pool was one of the things, but tell us about some of the software changes you've been tweaking with NeverDrains. Well, the last couple of months, some people have seen it. I've got text notifications in the system so that you'll be sent to the message when you're on deck for a game. For Indus this year, I've been having to tweak a lot because everything's card-based, and it's pretty complicated, especially the women's and kids, which is sharing a bank. Two different divisions on a single set of games is a little tricky. But apart from that, I'm trying to refine my code base so I can have a single version to go out to all the different tournaments.