Wait, if since you mentioned it, let me just put put this out there because I need to put this out there. I want a Stranger Things premium. Really? Really? It's on my wish list. It's on my wish list. Yeah, I actually Yeah, that that's the Yeah, I actually Yeah, that that's the game that I want the most right now because my kids are super into Stranger Things and I'm like maybe I can get them into and I'm like maybe I can get them into pinball cuz I've been trying to find like that one game that might actually get them into pinball. So, I'm just putting it out there like if anybody wants to send me a Stranger Things premium, loan me one. Um, give me one for half price. You know, I'm just putting it out there. Okay, you may continue. Amy, thank you for bringing things universe to get back, Matt. That's funny. That's funny. I get it. Totally. I get it. Totally. You gave me the window. I had to take You gave me the window. I had to take it. So, thank you. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. So, but the thing about too like and and actually then since then I found out that there's another town close to us named Turner Falls and there was a place there called Mystic Pinball before CO and I think kind of COVID impacted them and they're now reopening. I want to bring this all up because there's not enough pinball. Like even if even if there was a place like down the street, I think I would still be doing this. And one of the great things about talking to everybody about it and, you know, walking up to the owners of Gamecraft in Connecticut and the guys that are doing pinball at Almost Famous and all this kind of stuff and saying, "How do you do this and and why do you love it and is it sustaining you and where are you going to go with it and all that kind of stuff is I've gotten to know people?" And where we live in Massachusetts, there's this 91 route 91 corridor that goes up through Connecticut and up through where we live and all the way up to Vermont. And there's a ton of pinball places if you were to hopscotch all the way up the place. And so I have visions of a pinball passport where voting each other like Danny's Mystic Pizza pinball sorry his games are older and he's he likes a different era than like I'm really focusing on and the vibe in his place is got a music focus which I'm really focusing more on the arcade feel like bring your family bring your kids that kind of thing. So we're going to compliment each other and I think we can all compliment. That's awesome. That's awesome. Right. We could we could like set high Right. We could we could like set high scores and you got to go over here to get it or play this certain game that's only over at this other location. So, I love that idea, Amy. Like a pinball I love that idea, Amy. Like a pinball crawl. You know what I mean? It's cool. That's cool. You should do that. I'll be That's cool. You should do that. I'll be the first one in line to do it. We should all do it. Yeah. We should do like the pinball crawl event. Yeah. Yeah. In your arcade. In your arcade. It sounds great. Yeah. It sounds great. Yeah. So, what I wanted to know too, you So, what I wanted to know too, you started kind of accumulating games. Let's say collecting games. So, yeah. So, which came first, the So, yeah. So, which came first, the accumulating games or actually getting the lease on the space? Oh, I had the games before, Oh, I had the games before, right? Yeah. Well, that that was my next right? Yeah. Well, that that was my next question. But you are routing them, right? Is that right? Yeah. Well, yeah, I guess. Yeah, I am Yeah. Well, yeah, I guess. Yeah, I am technically I have some games out there right now. I've lent games to friends because I think somebody said earlier something about just like a sentiment of wanting the games to be played. Like I I feel that very strongly. like I'm going to be putting some in storage in a little bit and I just it like it breaks my heart that they're going to be alone there in old storage location you know so and old storage location you know so and then when they should be played but I would say thinking about this conversation I was reflecting a little bit on mistakes and this is probably one of the first ones was like going on a pinball buying spree before I had a location I was working with a friend of mine who's in pinball and They had developed a pretty good criteria for how to think about what's a good game, what's a bad game. Just few simple steps of looking at it and it was always in the end the fourth item was is it a good tournament game? Will it throw people off to have it at a tournament and I was always kind of a winner. There was a lot coming on the market over the last year and he was always sending me this is a great game. This is a great deal and I'm like you're right it is and I always I wanted to play that game and it was expanding my own horizons massively. So anyway, I ended up buying in total I have 56 pinball machines. Wow. Wow. And I'm not going to be able to fit that And I'm not going to be able to fit that many. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Yeah. That won't even in the arcade. So Yeah. That won't even in the arcade. So I mean if I want to do some arcade games like video arcade games, probably a 7525 split pinball to arcade games, but it affords a lot of opportunity actually with the arcade to potentially function as a a sales floor, right? to put games out there that we own, we've refurbished, or we've shopped own, we've refurbished, or we've shopped out and we want to turn them over. So, I I expect to have some turnover like that on the Cool. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Once you're up and running, do you plan Once you're up and running, do you plan on kind of rotating through your collection of games and and adding stuff? Yeah. And I have someone that I'm Yeah. And I have someone that I'm working with who also has games. And so we're kind of viewing our game collection. And he he's located down in Providence, Rhode Island, which is a a hour and 45 minutes away. So when there's something that's old to me now, I can send it down there. And it's like new down there at games. Like he has a sorcerer that I want to get so badly. It's Chris Cardacy Pinball Services. I don't know if I'm allowed to drop that, but sure. Sure. Good friend of mine, Chris. And the Good friend of mine, Chris. And the other thing too is that I never anticipated how many times I would have to move those games and Chris has helped me with that a lot. So 56 games where So where do you have So 56 games where So where do you have these games located now? Of them are at Chris's warehouse space. Of them are at Chris's warehouse space. Some are with a very good friend of mine who is an electrician and has some extra space to put them in. And some are being babysat by friends. Are you Matt? Are you thinking what I'm Are you Matt? Are you thinking what I'm thinking? I know. I just want her to tell me where they are so I can go rent a 18wheeler. And exactly what I was thinking. exactly what I was thinking. I got some right now. I I got some right now. I That's so funny. That's so funny. Long story. They're available to good Long story. They're available to good friends. Yeah, Yeah, they take up a lot of room, too. Like they take up a lot of room, too. Like you don't really think about it when you have one or two. It comes quick. Like you run out of space pretty fast. Yeah. It's like 10 square foot of Yeah. It's like 10 square foot of machine, not including like being able to walk around them. So, go back a little further. Like, you So, go back a little further. Like, you know, I was talking to everybody about it all the time. And I went down to this club that some guys had started uh you know down in Springfield. It's like 354 minutes away. Started talking to those guys about my plans. And one of those guys was like, "Oh my god, this is my dream realized." You know, and we started talking about, you know, just so excited how we could work on this together. Long story short, they ultimately invited me to bring some of my games to their club. So it was the four of us and the place was called Upper Playfield. And then two of the guys dropped out. We were really, we were doing a lot. I think they just wanted to play their games a little bit, you know, not at home. So then it was just the two of us running it and we were doing tournaments and all kinds of stuff and I had moved more games there and uh it was going real well and then my friend just had a couple strokes of bad luck where he broke his leg and lost his job and like layoffs were happening, you know, earlier this year and he was like, I just I kind of can't do this. And at that point, we were doing what's called the New England Pinball League, which is a really big, it's like over 40 locations in New England. And we were doing Monday nights, and we had a pretty solid family of people coming to play, plus new people coming all the time. And I really wanted to keep that going. And that was ultimately how I ended up like moving it to the house. Um, and then I held two seasons here at the house. It ended up being a lot. Amazing. Amazing. What's the parking Amazing. Amazing. What's the parking situation like at the house? at the house? Yeah, Yeah, I happen to imagine having I have a long I happen to imagine having I have a long driveway. Oh, a long driveway. Oh, a long driveway. I told people they could park on the I told people they could park on the grass, so people would just like park in diagonally. And I mean, I would be getting like between the most I ever had at a tournament was the most I ever had at a tournament was 28 people, I think, but league was like 12 to 14 to 15 people, and tournaments were, you know, 15 to 20 people, stuff like that. So we That's a That's a decent chunk of people That's a That's a decent chunk of people to have at your house. Yeah, man. When pinball calls, you answer and man. When pinball calls, you answer and you kind of only answered, Amy. Amy. Yeah, that club, the upper playfield was Yeah, that club, the upper playfield was in this old mill building. You know, it's like confined and you had no elev like you had to go and you had no elev like you had to go up these creaky old stairs and at night there was very little lights outside so the whole thing just kind of felt creepy. I was there late after a tournament and I had left on Evil Dead because I hadn't played it all night and I just wanted to play it before I left and I turned off everything else and was leaving and I went, "Oh, wait. I forgot I left Evil Dead on." So, I ran back like, "I'm going to play Evil Dead." And I turned it on. All right. Like I hit start and it was like whatever Evil Dead does when you start. It was like, you know, and all like creepy noises. And I suddenly realized that where I was was really super creepy and I was like, "Nope." And I turned off the game and I like ran out and I couldn't even deal with like it spooked you. it spooked you. It spooked me. It spooked me. So that's where we find pinball a lot, right? like your guys' story about going and buying pinball machines. Like a lot of times we encounter places like just to make pinball happen that like aren't the best. Pinball calls you answer. Pinball calls you answer. Yeah. Yeah. And tell us the name of it, too. And tell us the name of it, too. Right. I didn't know if we're going to Right. I didn't know if we're going to reveal that right away. Yeah. If you want if you want to reveal Yeah. If you want if you want to reveal the name. I think it's time. I think it's time. I think it's time. I think it's time. It's the Tilted Orbit Arcade. It's the Tilted Orbit Arcade. Tilted Orbit Arcade. All right. That's Tilted Orbit Arcade. All right. That's cool. Cool name. Yeah. Can I like just go off on a slight Yeah. Can I like just go off on a slight tangent and tell Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like even for someone who's kind of used to putting projects together from scratch, like it's a lot of two steps forward and one step back of constantly trying to reconcile the vision and what it costs to do that, what the budget is and then where you think the revenue is ultimately going to come from. It's a constant uh effort to refine it, you know, to try to come up with that best thing that you can. That's probably taken like a good 6 months even from knowing what I wanted to do. a real refinement where now I I'm I'm locked in and I've prepared a a zoning board application for the town and it's submitted and we're getting their feedback about what we're going to have to do to get our our permit. It is this kind of constant bit of iteration and even if you think you have it so well thought out, you're going to learn so much as you lean into it. Like unless you have prior experience that you just have to be kind of prepared that you're going to have to sit back and be like, "Okay, knowing this now, I have to like rethink all these other things." And in a project like this where I'm doing buildout, I'm putting in a bar, cooking capability, and obviously the investment in all of the games, it's a kind of a triad of like cost and schedule and risk and like, you know, what can I start now or what do I want to lean into now and and how does that all fit into the budget? That is the process of putting something like this together. So, I think sometimes people think they're going to figure out and they're going to go and they're going to run with it and then they're kind of bummed out or devastated even when it doesn't work, but you have to just be prepared that it's not going to work and you have to pivot and rethink what you're doing. Always the goal is how am I going to do this pinball thing? And if you keep focused on that, you'll you'll figure eventually. In terms of money, have you found that In terms of money, have you found that so far it's costing like significantly more less or about kind of what you estimated? about what I estimated originally. I did want to do food made to order, right? That was my original concept. Wasn't going to be big, but it was sandwiches and stuff like that, but it was like you have a menu and you put in your order, it's cooked and comes out. I couldn't do that. The cost for the kitchen just eclipsed the cost for the bar, but doesn't bring in the revenue that we expect the bar to bring in. So, I had to just really lean into the bar and kind of minimize the food, thinking that later on I'll like, you know, figure out what what we can make work if we need to. Right. The space that you're leasing does not The space that you're leasing does not have a commercial kitchen currently. The space that I'm leasing is actually The space that I'm leasing is actually an old was a supermarket, like a local kind of supermarket. It has three bay sinks and grease traps. That's actually a big step towards the components of the kitchen, but no, other than that, it doesn't have the even the equipment that was there is gone. So, you would be having to basically So, you would be having to basically finance all of that stuff from scratch in order to be able to cook kind of onsite and Yeah. And there was more buildout Yeah. And there was more buildout involved with that option. So, if I just, you know, again, like reoriented my thoughts, rethought about the different profit centers of the business that I'm trying to put together, I'm like, "Yeah, this one we can put aside." I still think food's important, but you can do really great things now with um like those ovens even that they have in in Starbucks. Starbucks y Starbucks y and microwave oven at the same time, you and microwave oven at the same time, you know, something like that, plus your regular snacks. And the place is going to be set up to the front part of it is going to be kind of a more of a family feel arcade and it will have a a snack bar, a concession stand kind of thing where kids can go and order and then the bar is kind of towards the back. We have to have separation in Massachusetts, many states, right, between the bar and where the kids are going to be. Okay. So, that food that what that oven can do actually lends itself real well to the the kind of vibe and the theme of the arcade where the games are first and the food and the alcohol is kind of secondary. And so, hours wise and like operating, And so, hours wise and like operating, do you have a plan as far as how late you guys are going to be open? I I know around here the bars that have pinball, they kick out the kids at like 7 o'clock. 7 o'clock, I think, is the time. Yeah. 7 o'clock, I think, is the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 21 and up after 7 o'clock. 21 and up after 7 o'clock. Yep. I'm going to do something like Yep. I'm going to do something like that, too. I don't There's not a mandated time, as far as I'm aware, but we'll transition from daytime to nighttime just to make it easier to manage like what's happening at the bar, right? How many hours can you be open right? How many hours can you be open and and still keep your business profitable and staffed? Right. Well, right now conceptually, I'm Right. Well, right now conceptually, I'm going to be open five days a week, but we may go to six if it's working real well. And the closed days are going to be Tuesdays and Wednesdays because I really want to keep I want to have my Monday leagues again and start that up at Tilted Orbit once it's open. Uh cuz we have a der of that. People do leagues on different nights and there's no Monday, right? So, I also want to be closed at least one day a week because I'm going to do whole event space rentals. It's been one of the most common things that people that aren't even pinball people when they just hear the concept come up to me and say, "I would love a place to have a company party that is cool and people have things to do while they're there, not just, you know, a DJ and a throw down dance floor kind of thing." I'm thinking 1 to 10 on weekdays and then on weekends or Friday night, you stay open till midnight. I think I said 1:00 in the application cuz I expect them to push back to midnight. Hope they're not listening. will open up at 11 on Saturday and Sunday, you know, so earlier. And just to expand on that a little bit too, I I think about the footprint of the lease area as like how much money can I make within this footprint. I mean, not like greedy way, but like how many revenue streams can I, you know, operate and still provide the kind of experience and customer service that I want to. So, I have a golf simulator room in the back of the arcade. that there'll be a golf simulator and it's a multi-game simulator. So, the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I'm hoping to be able to kind of make a connection with the local country club because they don't have a golf simulator and of course it's winter time. You know, people got to figure out where they're going to play golf. And I set this up in my permit because I didn't know if there was something I needed to do to secure the alcohol to have my golf pro come in at 8:00 and start his lessons. you just can keypad into the space, go back to the golf simulator, do his lessons, signing up online every hour, and then I imagine that room will transition into like the multi-game, you know, zombie dodgeball kind of thing in the back room like later on. But so again, like trying to eek out more hours, but actually with like no manpower at all needed to be there while they're doing it. Have you figured how much staff you're going to require on like an average day? I would just say that I think I'm I would just say that I think I'm probably going to have I say 10 to 15 and sometimes I think it'll be more 10 to 15 people on staff. Maybe more because of shift being open that many days and then shift because it's kind of like you have almost two meals, right? You you'll you'll have lunch and then like a late lunch and then you'll have a dinner time thing. So you could think about that as potentially being, you know, different shifts and you need multiple people to cover the schedule. So I never thought I would need that money many. And the more I thought about it, more I talked to people about how you have to think about staffing, the more I realize that you need kind of a deeper bench in order to cover all your scheduling needs and that you're talking 10 to 15 total and that you're talking 10 to 15 total employees. I think on the floor, like say it's a weekend evening, there would be two bartenders, probably two to three people on the arcade floor, and then there's going to be someone at the welcome desk cuz when you first walk in, it's like, how what is this place? How do you pay? How do you play the games? Do you have to pay to go to the bar? All those questions that you get as people first walk in. And then the concession stand. So, adding that up, I'd say like eight or nine. And then you like I'll be running around, you know, the general managers kind of filling in everywhere, too. I'll have an arcade floor manager and and not necessarily to be like on the floor but to be those are business units right so they're going to be managing those how do you pay have you thought about how do you pay have you thought about that or you know where are you tokens I'm going to do pay by the hour pay by I'm going to do pay by the hour pay by the day pay by the month so you yes you you know you can pay for so you yes you you know you can pay for I've been thinking about eight sessions is like the right like or eight visits is the equivalent of a one month and then you can bring a friend twice for free or like little that you add on to it that you add on to it like a membership and and every game is like a membership and and every game is on free play. Yeah, every game will be on free play. I Yeah, every game will be on free play. I will say that one of the hardest decisions and I have been researching this for months and I feel honestly no more equipped to make this decision now than I did before is how what's the paytoplay system? Is it RFID? Is it simple Teflon wrist, you know, wristbands? Is it or tieve wristbands or, you know, is it something else? Is a card that stays? Is it a wristband? you know, how how are you going to do this? And especially early on when we're thinking about this, how do you manage people only playing for one hour? That's you don't care about all day and you don't care about monthly memberships. It's just the people that come in for an hour and you manage that and wanting to avoid what I have heard consistently is a bad situation to get into or if you can avoid it is the tapping customers on their shoulder going, "Hey, you know, it's time's up." you know, and that type of I just that's not the vibe I want at all that's not the vibe I want at all either, but I do want to kind of manage that part of it. So, I have been doing research on different systems and I have spreadsheets and spreadsheets of different like what's my criteria, what do they offer and I I just really I still don't feel equipped to make the decision. But when I went out to Chicago Expo, the last day I went to a seminar where I can't remember the title of it, but it was basically you want to be an operator, like you own a couple games and you want to be an operator kind of thing. And it was a panel of two guys and a moderator. And the two guys had just like for lack of a for kind of little hyperbole had amassed empires by buying routes and buying arcades and buying in vending and video and and or vending and arcade. And one guy kind of had that kind of empire and another guy had become a distributor plus routing and stuff like that. And they introduced the concept of the amusement and musician operators association. And one of them was president Bob Burnham is currently the president. He was on the panel. And eventually someone asked the question that I had of like how do you know where to go? you either have like, you know, incredible hardware costs or fees later on that you have to pay the company. And you're talking about a like a card you're talking about a like a card system type of thing. Yes, exactly. The RFID system. But, you Yes, exactly. The RFID system. But, you know, and then there's this question about server architecture. Is it cloud-based? Is it hybrid? Is it local server? All these different things. Like I said, I've been researching it like crazy and I don't feel any better off. But now Bob Burnham, that guy who was the president of the AMOA, we're in contact with each other. Nice. He's basically someone did say how Nice. He's basically someone did say how do you decide and they were like talk to us afterwards because we basically have acquired so many different systems that we can kind of talk you through maybe steer you towards ones that work for you. But I am talking to Scorbbit right now. We'll we'll see just preliminary conversations to because their timing and my timing with the scorbit you know 2.0 that they're coming out with. I know that Scorbit has like score I know that Scorbit has like score tracking right but does it also include some payment? system. What they rolled out at Chicago Expo is What they rolled out at Chicago Expo is kind of their next generation which is now incorporating a tap pad and an app on the phone and you tap in and it works with different types of payment systems including like the the pay by the hour or pay by the day type approach that I want to take. Cool. And I like it because one of the ways And I like it because one of the ways that I want to really get people or I plan on getting people into this place, I want it to be a pinball players arcade. And I I feel like one of the ways to keep people coming in is to have a very full and consistent calendar of events where there's IFPA events and there's nonFPA events, but there's kind of consistently like a fun tournament on Saturday nights or Bell's tournament on Thursdays and you know, things like that. And I like the scorebait because you can with that platform that they have already, you can set up these kind of running tournaments that are running in the background all month that people are just coming in and contributing to the ante, you know, and contributing to the pot. Having tournaments is great, but you have to have people to run them too, which is like, you know, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to just, you know, rely on staff to do that or will I bring people in. I would love to bring people in and expand the culture in the community to include like tournament guest hosts that are there doing their special kind of tournament like electric bats, you know, with Chewies. I can't remember what it's called, but I always hear about it and I'm like, I want to go, but they're in Arizona. Yeah. Well, actually, one thing that we Yeah. Well, actually, one thing that we didn't talk about is maintenance, game maintenance. So, what are your plans as far as fixing games, keeping them up and running? I know we talked a little bit about, you know, it's important to have these games playing well. Having them play really well is like one Having them play really well is like one my number one priority for the arcade is have get growing the reputation of being, you know, a place that has reliably playing games because I do have a excess of games, I will have the luxury of if it's a game that needs a longerterm repair and this space actually has a storage room as well that we can work on games. We'll I'll be able to swap out games. So, that's actually pretty cool. But definitely the arcade manager is going to have to be technically proficient. And then Chris from Cardi Pinball Services is kind of even though he's down in Providence, he's kind of acting as a advisor for anything that that that you know anyone on the floor doesn't know what to do and collectively we'll figure that out. Um hopefully we'll be training people too. I mean there's so many things that I want to do with this space of like teach people how to work on their own machines. But I I'm glad that you brought up the maintenance like maintaining the games themselves on the floor is going to be really important. We're going to be refurbishing machines and selling them. So, you know, leaning into that. But my own experience with distributors has been that servicing games, it's been hard to find people. So, we've been talking a lot lately about how we can lean into the service department to actually have it be a stand on its own kind of like little business unit where, you know, we have enough people on the team to be able to do house calls to maybe even wrap like service packages around the games that we sell, whether they're used or new. Um, but certainly like maintenance for people. You know, 70% of pinball, what are they saying now? 70% of pinball buyers are home buyers. And yeah, a lot of do know how to work on machines, but a lot of people don't. A lot of people don't. Yeah. A lot of people don't. Yeah. So, yeah, that's something that we're So, yeah, that's something that we're really going to lean into and try to stand out as like if you want to figure out how to get a machine fix. I actually just talked a guy out of selling me a Shrek the other day cuz he Can I can I sidebar and tell you this story? Really posted on Facebook Marketplace a Shrek and it's on my wish list, a Shrek for 4750. And I Yeah. And I was late to the game. Chris kind of made me aware of it. And I reached out to him and I was like, "Man, I will just pay you 4750 for that." Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. So, I told the guy, reached out, said, So, I told the guy, reached out, said, "I'm starting an arcade." And he he picked me. He said a ton of response, but he said, "I love the fact that it would go to an arcade and get played." So, we finally get on the phone and we're talking to each other like, "What's going on with the game?" And and then he told me that he basically was saying, "I don't really know that much about how to fix games." And so I think it's this, but this is what's going on, but I bought this thing in 2008 and my son played it and my son's got the high score. He's telling me all these stories about it. And I'm like, Mike, you don't want to sell this game. And he's like, I don't know if I want to sell this game. And I was like, you just need someone to fix for you. And I know someone. And now he's in And I know someone. And now he's in touch with Chris and he's going to get the game fixed and he's going to keep it. And he said, you'll always get right of first refusal. And I was like, you're coming to the grand opening of Tilted Orbit. And I made a friend even though I didn't get a Shrek, but He needed to keep that game, you know. He Thank you, Amy. Thank you. Here, I I Thank you, Amy. Thank you. Here, I I want to shake your hand, but I I can't. You're awesome. See, this is what we need, man. Like, people like you. I swear. I was going to say something, too. Listening to like all these ideas, all the kind of like the goals that you have, Amy. I in like 10 years, dude. I see Amy as like I don't know, a a pinball uh like empress. Empress. Um, seriously, I'm I'm serious Empress. Um, seriously, I'm I'm serious because you have so many good ideas kind of like fully encapsulating pinball and and kind of also just growing it as a as as a as like an interest for, you know, in general. And I think it's awesome. Yeah, it's clear that you've thought Yeah, it's clear that you've thought about all of the different aspects of pinball and the different ways that you can be of service to the community as it relates to to pinball and arcades. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I hope to be, you know, a part of that to some degree. We'll be definitely. So, where are we We'll be definitely. So, where are we now? December 9th, 2025. How long has it been since you started? I guess a little over a year and a half, I guess, right? And so, what's the what's the trajectory? What are we looking at? It's going to be another 6 months. And It's going to be another 6 months. And that is what I keep saying. I've been saying it for a while. It took a lot longer to get the lease done, but once I got the lease done, it really hinges on the permitting. And the local permitting is just not going to be easy. there's a couple hoops, a couple separate steps that I have to jump through. You know, if you if you get ask for a variance, that all of a sudden introduces something called site plan review and then you get that approval and once they're okay with it, then you have to go to the zoning board because I'm changing the use from a grocery store to an arcade with a little bit of nightclub action. Um, so, so it's always six months like because even if it only takes three or four months to get the permits, then you can't start building your you can't do any plumbing, you can't do any electrical until you have your permit. So, you get kind of three months of buildout even in the best case scenario. They're contractors, right? They got a lot of jobs, so they can't just jump on and do it all at once. So, that's why it's been like that. But I do have my zoning board application in and even if they tell us we have to go to site plan review first, the application is pretty much sufficient. They'll they'll tell us how we have to make it perfect. And so I think we'll start that process in January. They do their meetings monthly. So it's this kind of if you miss a meeting, you're missing a whole month, you know, so we can get on the January schedule. And then the other thing is the liquor license and I submitted and that like I said it's a town and a state process. So I submitted to the town. I had some minor things to fix up. I'm going to turn that back in this week and I'm targeting a January 9th local hearing. And if I get approved in the local hearing, then the town administrator, the licensing coordinator, he packages it up and sends it to the state and kind of does inter is the leazison between me and the state to answer questions. That's typical bureaucracy. It could be three months, could be four months, it could be six months. So, but you are on the hook for the lease at but you are on the hook for the lease at this point. I negotiated. I have a really wonderful I negotiated. I have a really wonderful landlord who my building is a standalone building and where it's located is on a 12 acre property that has been commercially developed by this woman, Cinda Jones, and her brother. It's a family-owned property that they've had for a really long time. It has a family business on it, but then she's done this grocery store that I'm now going to repurpose, but around it are three buildings that have commercial on the first floor and residential on the second. It's like 120 residential units. The reason why I brought up this development is that she very strongly felt like there was kind of this missing component. The grocery store had been empty for a little while, so she wanted to fill it, but she felt like an entertainment thing. So, she kind of wanted something like I was delivering. So, I pitched her a lot on my business plan, but then said, "It's all at risk. If I don't get permits, I can't operate. Is there any way I can get a period of time where I don't have to pay rent until I get the permits?" And anyway, long story short, in the lease, I ultimately negotiated a period of time where I don't have to pay rent as long as I'm putting reasonable effort towards uh getting the permits, which she definitely believes that I'm doing. I love her so much. I'm feel so lucky. She's very excited about it and wants to lean into it and promotes it within this. It's called the Mill District and she promotes all of it. And actually I have a Cactus Canyon in one of the commercials and a getaway in one of the other commercial shops up there. Oh, nice. Oh, nice. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. So, that is something like and Yeah. So, that is something like and I've talked to even people that are around me and trying to do something with pinball that just kind of didn't know that you could ask for that in lease negotiation. And and so I'm spreading the word like try, right? Like if they want to be successful, they can give you a leg up. This is not the kind of business where you have necessarily a lot of money and time to be able to put into it. It's very risky and it's very low margins. And she was willing, she saw the vision and if you can convince the landlord of the vision and what it's going to bring to the space and the longevity of that, then you know, get them to buy into your concept and maybe you can get a little like easing up on the lease. So yeah, ultimately if you're successful, yeah, ultimately if you're successful, then it benefits them because they have a long-term tenant. I'm going to I'm going to mark that down I'm going to I'm going to mark that down as a pro tip. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And then going Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And then going back real quick, you said you have to get a like a variance approved with the zoning board because it's currently zoned to be a grocery store and you want it to be something different. So probably a lot of people don't realize is that every single building you're going to have a specific kind of function that this building is approved for. That variance process can be pretty involved. You have to put it before the board. Then you probably have to make sure that none of the surrounding residents or businesses are opposed to the thing that you're trying to do. And yeah, that can be that can be quite a process. A couple of the things involved in that permitting process is yes, there's a public hearing aspect to it. So eventually we'll have to put a notice in the paper and send letters to all of the abutters of the property and ask them to come to the public hearing and talk about why they support it or don't and what their concerns are. when the board comes up with things that they're concerned about, be prepared with answers or do your best to answer solidly on the fly and then ask if it can be included in your permit approval as a contingency. So, you don't have to go off and come back another month later with your brand new plan. You say, "Look, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm this and I'm going to do the best my ability to answer this and satisfy the town. Can my permit approval be contingent upon me agreeing to do this?" and then they say yes because they'll give you your permit to go make your changes and then they finally won't approve it if you haven't made them so they feel protected. So that can save you a month or maybe even more. Yeah. Yeah. Great tip. The whole Yeah. Yeah. Great tip. The whole permitting process has got to be one of the trickiest things for somebody who's never done anything like this before. And just one of the other things that came up is one of the other things that came up is um occupancy is this really the whole thing with zoning is what is your building set up for in terms of your sprinkler systems or lack of how many people can you fit in it and is your new use going to accommodate that or are you going to be busting at the seams all the time and then what does the fire department and the board want you to do to manage that. So with games, some games don't count, some towns don't count the arcade games as footprint that can't be occupied. So you don't have the benefit. They actually just count floor as occupancy. And then they might say, "Oh, if you could fit in 150 people, you actually need four bathrooms. Now you have to add two, you know." And so what we did to try to manage that was we fiddled with the size of the bar, kind of extending it out into the space in order to have like less space that was considered customer space and try to manage the occupancy. The town did mention to us that they have some questions. I'm I have a meeting with them on Thursday and I think it's about like how are you guys thinking about occupancy? How did you come up with your numbers? And hopefully they agree with us just because managing occupancy can be you do you have someone at the door now that you have to hire to kind of count people going in and out you know or can you convince the town that no the way this is set up you really can't fit more than that many people. So, as long as we do X, Y, and Z, everybody's covered from a risk perspective. And then I'm sure the town is also And then I'm sure the town is also concerned about any related traffic and parking and all that stuff is always a big issue with with zoning changes. Yep. They actually did bring up the Yep. They actually did bring up the potential to have to do a traffic study and I was like, oh god, oh man. Oh man. Yeah, there's oh god, oh man. Oh man. Yeah, there's there's a 15 grand you never get back. I you know I have a renew I have a permitting background. I did renewable energy systems but I do know a little bit about standing in front of boards but I I don't want to like kind of take credit for figuring it all out cuz I did have the benefit of having a little bit of experience and also in this town like you have to submit architectural drawings. So I have an architect advising me on like oh if you want to do that that's going to be a variance or if you want to do that that's going to be a waiver. Yeah. So, your best bet is to find a place that you don't have to change the use, right? Like that that's the simplest permitting. Yeah. Yeah. But it it sounds like you've Yeah. Yeah. But it it sounds like you've got a great space. Every time I go into an arcade, I'm trying to figure out how many square feet it is because I'm like, "Okay, this place is successful, I think. How much space do they actually have? How many games do they have? How much space is the bar taking up?" All those kind of factors are limiting. And having a space as large as yours, you're really giving yourself the opportunity to kind of be free. I I think that's the way to go if you can pull it off. This space actually has room for This space actually has room for expansion, too, which I didn't even know about until I stumbled upon at one point a brewery was looking at the space and they had put an extension on for their tanks and the town actually approved it. So, usually once a footprint is approved, you could feel confident that you at least could go back and occupy that footprint with more commercial space. So, it's a couple thousand square feet. If things are going like gang busters, you're right. Maybe it will be Amy's the Empress.