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Interview op Radio Exxact Barendrecht op 02-05-2023

Dutch Pinball Museum·video·43m 0s·analyzed·May 15, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 (batch) · $0.013

TL;DR

Dutch Pinball Museum director shares passion-driven journey building 160-machine collection in historic Rotterdam venue.

Summary

Gerard van der Zanden, director of the Dutch Pinball Museum in Rotterdam, discusses his journey from painter to museum founder, his lifelong passion for pinball machines, and the museum's collection of 160+ machines (100 playable at any time). He explains the museum's philosophy of combining playable machines with historical storytelling, the economics of licensed themes versus original designs, and expansion plans to grow from 700 to 1000 square meters to better showcase individual machine histories and context.

Key Claims

  • Pinball has existed since 1777; flippers were added to pinball machines in 1947

    medium confidence · Gerard van der Zanden explaining pinball history to radio audience

  • The Addams Family is the most produced pinball machine ever, with 21,252 units manufactured

    high confidence · Gerard van der Zanden providing production statistics during museum discussion

  • Licensing a major IP like Game of Thrones costs approximately $100,000 but allows manufacturers to use all artwork, music, and visual materials

    medium confidence · Gerard explaining economics of licensed themes to radio hosts

  • The museum operates only three days per week (Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday afternoons) by deliberate choice to maintain quality and allow maintenance time

    high confidence · Gerard explaining operational strategy

  • The Dutch Pinball Museum opened in 2015 with 40-50 machines and has grown to 160+ machines through consistent collecting

    high confidence · Gerard describing museum growth trajectory

  • The museum building (Delshaven location) is 1,700 square meters total; currently uses 700 and plans to expand to 1,000 square meters

    high confidence · Gerard discussing expansion plans

  • Gerard lost 40 kg of weight at age 41 after surgery, which gave him the energy and courage to start the museum

    high confidence · Gerard describing personal transformation and motivation

  • The museum has a custom-built Matrix pinball machine with 3,500+ man-hours of labor invested, made by a friend ten years prior

    high confidence · Gerard describing rare prototype in collection

Notable Quotes

  • “If you can make your hobby your profession, then you have done it well.”

    Gerard van der Zanden @ Early in interview — Core philosophy explaining his career transition from painter to museum director

  • “Passion is not for sale. You can't wear this out of passion.”

    Gerard van der Zanden @ Mid-interview — Explains why formal credentials don't matter when passion drives the mission

  • “If it ain't broken, it ain't pinball. If it's not broken, it's not a flipper case. You haven't played enough on it.”

    Gerard van der Zanden @ During collection maintenance discussion — Illustrates the wear-and-tear reality of operating playable pinball machines

  • “Every Flipperkast has a beautiful painting in its head. Artwork. That is by someone with a lot of passion... The Flipperkast designer also got an assignment. You have to make a cabinet of Tommy. And Roger Daltrey and Anne Market have to be on that head.”

    Gerard van der Zanden @ During discussion of machine artistry — Demonstrates curator's deep appreciation for pinball as collaborative art form

  • “They are all kind of children, you are not going to point out your favorite child. A flip-up cabinet is really something amazing. There are no stupid flip-up cabinets.”

    Gerard van der Zanden @ When asked about favorite machine — Shows philosophical approach to collection; each machine has inherent value

  • “99% of the answers are just people are looking for something recognizable. Do you think Iron Maiden as a band is fantastic? Then you want to flip there.”

    Gerard van der Zanden @ During licensing discussion — Reveals core insight about why licensed themes dominate modern pinball market

Entities

Gerard van der ZandenpersonDutch Pinball MuseumorganizationAldopersonAnnika van der VeldepersonRob TeunissenpersonHanspersonThe WhoorganizationPete TownshendpersonDuncan LawrencepersonRené KleinpersonNova Starorganization

Signals

  • ?

    venue_signal: Dutch Pinball Museum operates 3 days/week by deliberate choice to maintain quality and allow machine maintenance; plans expansion from 700 to 1,000 square meters in historic Delshaven building

    high · Gerard explains 'I have chosen to be open for three days and during the weekday... I can just focus on the museum' and discusses expansion plans to 1000 sq meters with more narrative space

  • ?

    product_strategy: Licensed IP pinball games cost manufacturers ~$100,000 for rights but provide significant branding advantage; unlicensed original themes are much more expensive and lack brand recognition

    medium · Gerard explains 'For a box manufacturer it's actually very cheap to buy a license from Game of Thrones. That costs an X amount. Let's say 100.000 dollar' versus 'if you invent it yourself... that's much more expensive'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Museum houses extremely rare prototype machines (Kill Bill, Matrix, custom builds with 3,500+ hours labor) alongside mass-produced titles; custom machines represent significant artistic investment

    high · Gerard discusses Matrix machine with 'really 3500 man-hours plus in it' built over years; Kill Bill and other prototypes exist in single or minimal quantities

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Playable machine collection requires continuous maintenance rotation; machines are regularly pulled for repair and replaced with alternates to minimize downtime while maintaining 100 playable units

    high · 'If a flipper case breaks, we try to make it. On days when we're not open. If that doesn't work, we take it out. We put another one down.'

  • ?

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.129

0:00
Welcome to Exact Barendrecht, radio for the region. At home, on the road and at work. The energetic sound of the spring. Confident and confident, this is Exact.
0:14
A good feeling. The evening of Exact. This is Exact. A very good evening, ladies and gentlemen. You are listening to The Evening Express, the program where Rob and I are in conversation with special people. I am Annika van der Velde and my companion Rob Teunissen. In this program we are looking for the discovery journey to the human. Who is the human behind the mission or the passion? And tonight we have Gerard van der Zanden. Welcome. Good evening. Good to see you. Yes, yes, yes, certainly. It's a lot of time. Very nice. Gerard is the director of the Dutch Pinball Museum in Rotterdam. We are very curious to see what Gerard does. But before we do that, we will of course go to a music piece. And yes, it can't be any other, right Gerard? No, it was not a coincidence. No, exactly. Pinball Wizard by The Who.
1:19
Well, what a lovely track. Yes, super song. Yes. I never told you how often I listened to it, but it must be a lot. And what do you think? 5,000 to 6,000 times more. It was also not to be heard. No, Gerard is singing along. Hans is also a bit, Hans is also with us tonight, our technician. But there was also a story with Gerard, because we always ask our guests to take a record with them. And what is the story of this record? We have to check the facts, but the story has come to me. Pete Townshend, the man who wrote this enormous guitar riff for the rock opera Tommy from 1969. He was working on the rock opera and he had decided to do it live. And a recensist came to see what we had made of it. And that man turned out to be a huge pinball love. So we wrote a song to cheer him up. Search it at home, fact check it. But if it's not true, it's just a nice story. Brilliant. A nice story. Welcome Gerard, it's great that you're here. We're proud that you want to sign up with us. Because you really have the most beautiful life there is. Yes, nothing to complain about. It's very special. People, you know, it's a cliché, but if you can make your hobby your profession, then you have done it well. Yes. Yes, that's good. You know, if you make your hobby your profession, then you have no... You go to work with pleasure every day. You only have no hobby anymore. No. Because it has become your profession. Yes, it has become your profession. Well, then we're going to talk about it with you today. About your drive. But maybe we should start with how it all started. How it all started, yes. Well, funny enough, I was born in Rotterdam in Spangen and moved to Dordrecht on my sixth. And I still live there. All my life, from the time I was six, I can remember it, I was a fan of flipping. Yes, most of you who see me here know that. You just said it yourself. You used to be able to flip everywhere. And you said, yes, I was in the military service. I was one of the last ones. And flipping was our thing. We didn't have a mobile phone, so we flipped. And I was so caught up in it. And that took a flight in my life. And that always has been a red thread. Just through my youth, my teenage years, my middle age. That kind of stuff. A house, a tree, a beast. I have been a painter for 25 years. From my 16th to my 41st. And always, is this it? I went to work with a day in my life with a pest in my body. I thought it was a nice job. I would have done it now if I hadn't come on this path. But I think at some point, after my fortieth, what do I really want? And then something like a flippant museum would be the ultimate for me. You thought that? Yes. Or did you come on your path because you thought so? Or did you think it before it came on your path? A friend of mine once planted a seed in 2007, I don't remember exactly where I was at the time. I was so full of flippers and I didn't see it myself. He said, you should really do something with a flipper box so you can tell people the stories. And that kind of thing. Maybe a museum or something. That's cool. That seed. And that really felt like a bomb to me. And I think, yes, but that's it. Well, I was too young then, you know, I was in my early thirties. If I tell people now about 60 years ago, it was so nice, it doesn't matter. It never let me go and on my 41st I think, now is the moment. It was also a bit of a strange year for me. I was really a construction worker, all letters, 12 butter rams, 3 liters of milk and I grew completely out of my feed. I was 146 kg and in my 40th birthday I had a surgery and a muscle reduction and I lost 40 kg and I had energy for 10. And I thought, if this is the energy I need, then this is the moment to start that museum of mine that I so want. I was for my work, I had taken a job in the town of Katendrecht in 2015. I walked with my boat in my break past the gates of the Phoenix Lozen. And there was the Phoenix Food Factory just opened. And there was a phone number on it. I thought, yes, I'm going to call them. So I got a man on the line, I still know him, I still know him well, Mr. Aldo. And I thought, how can I invite myself to pitch an idea? Yes, come on. Well, that was a half hour of compulsory work, I had the feeling. I thought I'll just stand by the boy for a while and I go to a kind of office where it is clear that I only have half an hour of time. And then someone else comes and that's it. After half an hour, the man says, do you have time? Are we going to a bar and are we going to do a bar? Well, there was another hour left. And I still call him that man who had to fill the Phoenix Loots there. And I'm such a protégé now. I have become his most successful startup ever. And the last time he called me and said, Geert, I'm in Breda, doing a comparison with something. Can I give you as a reference for something that has been there for a long time? Hired from the municipality in 2015 and I started there so soon. Without that start in the Phoenix Loots it was not successful. But back to, I'm very curious, because you are also a flipper. Certainly. A flip fan. A flip profile. A flip profile, we just thought of that. And Hans, are you a flipper? Hans, yes, come on in. Yes, I used to have a lot of flippers, it's really nice. If there is an automatic one somewhere, I want to use it. Yes, cool. I was really bad at it, by the way, but I really liked it. Yes. But how did it start? You said your whole life was there, from a certain age it was just flipping. But did I have to imagine that you were really, really blood fanatic and that there was a lot going on in flipping? Or was it just like, I was flipping very young? Yes, I was flipping very young and I was maybe a little better at it because you did a lot. And we used to be on the camping. Yes. Yes, the canteen where the flipping cabinets were, was the hangout for the youth. Yes. I sometimes see young people hanging on the street and I think, pfff. Go flip. Yes, go flip. I remember when I was in high school, all those playgrounds came up. All my friends went there. I didn't go to those playgrounds because there were no flipboards. I didn't like it. So everyone was shooting at those guns and those video games. No, not for me. I really wanted to do a quarter in it and play on the thing as long as possible. I haven't experienced that much, but that's going to be a lot. I did look them up, because we had the deluxe. In Dordrecht you had three of those playgrounds. And on my sixth we moved to Dordrecht and around the corner, literally around the corner, there was a playground where I would go in on Wednesday afternoon. And then I went into the back part, which was still allowed in the past, there was a box. I started to feel the little fingers in the gloves, because I always thought they were a bit too much. Then I went to the front and I started flipping. It was a magical time. Nice, nice. So it wasn't just a little bit of flipping from a young age. It's a real passion. Yes, and later you realize that. Because I don't have any photos of the time when I was standing up with a flip case. It's just not there. If you open my phone now and look for a flipping case, it's full of it. It's full of it. Yes, exactly.
Addams Family
game
Game of Thronesgame
Funhousegame
Chuckygame
Matrixgame
Kill Billgame
James Bond 60th Editiongame
Iron Maidengame
Indiana Jonesgame
Star Warsgame
Pac-Mangame

community_signal: Strong community engagement around pinball museum; returning visitors expect rotating collection; strong emphasis on storytelling and contextualizing machines rather than pure gaming venue model

medium · Gerard mentions returning customers ask 'do you have any news?' and emphasizes museum's commitment to narrative around each machine rather than pure arcade experience

  • ?

    business_signal: Museum prioritizes sustainable 3-day-week model over maximized revenue; choice reflects curator's desire to maintain personal quality control and prevent dilution through delegation

    high · Gerard: 'suppose I leave it to others, we open seven days a week. And there are other faces, then in my eyes it is a smaller museum'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Museum curator views pinball machines as collaborative art pieces with significant investment in backglass artwork, design, and themes; expansion plans emphasize display and context over pure gameplay capacity

    high · Gerard: 'Every Flipperkast has a beautiful painting in its head. Artwork. That is by someone with a lot of passion' and expansion vision includes more space for storytelling around individual machines

  • ?

    historical_signal: Addams Family confirmed as most-produced pinball machine with 21,252 units; provides scale context for rare prototypes (Kill Bill, Matrix) as one-offs

    high · Gerard states 'The Adams Family. 21,252 times made. But that's very little worldwide' as context for comparing to Pac-Man's 300,000+ arcade units

  • ?

    venue_signal: Museum began in 2015 at Phoenix Loots location on Katendrecht (industrial port area), operated there ~4.5 years before relocating to current larger historic Delshaven venue; early success tied to supportive landlord relationship

    high · Gerard describes initial venue secured through spontaneous pitch to building manager Aldo; describes 30-minute pitch turning into hour-long discussion and ongoing support as 'man who had to fill the Phoenix Loots'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Museum director personally inspects machines before acquisition rather than delegating; active marketplace monitoring; continues acquiring 2-3 machines monthly despite having 160+ in collection

    high · 'I get an app that says, hey, it's for sale... I want to see it myself... I sometimes go to Belgium or Groningen... I'm not going to send a chauffeur'

    • 9:33
    We're going to a picture in between. Ron from Nova Star. Yes, the band Nova Star. Did you know that that's a band from our southern neighbourhood? Yes, a very nice record. It's nice to have you here Gerard. You're very enthusiastic about telling. And of course we're just going to go on. Plates are being played. It's only been an hour, right? Also enjoying. We only have an hour. But we just said, then you suddenly made your work out of your passion. But tell us something about that passion. Yes, passion is not for sale.
    10:12
    You can, yes, that doesn't work. I say sometimes, I'm a museum director. And I think, I'm not a museum director at all. I'm someone with a lot of passion who can do what he likes. Even more so, suppose a vacancy would come up. Searched, museum director of a pinball museum. And you have to be able to do something. I'm not even invited. Because you're not going to wear this out of passion. But I know where my strengths lie. I also know where they are not. I sometimes have to make an Excel file to determine the values of the flipping boxes for the insurance Then I ask someone else can you make an Excel file for me Because I don know how to do that Well I was ashamed at first that I couldn do certain things Now I'm like, do what you can do well yourself. And what you don't get, ask someone else. That's not bad at all. And what is your talent? Talent, yes, smiling with a nice story. I think it's a very good thing that people are getting more and more enthusiastic. You come in and you end up in a box of passion. I think passion is a very strange word. People say, sir, you have passion. But if you have three flipping cabinets at home and you like flipping and every Friday you come with friends, then you have passion for flipping cabinets. You also have something like obsession. And I'm very much against that. Yes, I just meant to say that. Passy plus. Passy and Adrian. Yes, I say it too. But very briefly. I mean, you just made the assumption that if I would have applied, I would never be accepted. But you are the director of a pinball museum with 100 cabinets that you can play with. Yes. And maybe 100 behind the scenes. Yes. With an incredibly beautiful collection. Yes. And a very nice collection. Yes. 100 behind the scenes. With an incredibly beautiful collection. And you are also at the forecourt in Delshaven. In a very special building. A building that is really indescribable. It is the largest building in the forecourt. Historically Delshaven. In the past, the Museum of Rotterdam was the double palm tree. Double palm tree. A stomp. And people say, oh sir, this used to be the double palm tree. No, the double. The double palm tree. Oh, that was so nice. No, it's the double. Yes, there is of course a lot of nostalgia attached to it. Yes, and that we also succeeded in getting there. That is also a bit of a blessing, people who believe in you. And yes, it is fantastic. It just falls into place. Yes, sometimes they say, happiness is not the end. Yes, you were the one who called Mr. I forgot his name. Aldo. Aldo, exactly. It's so nice. It's just a must. For example, this is a song by Baz Luhrmann. The Class of 1999. It's a spoken text. I think it's super nice. And at some point he says, the most interesting people don't know what they want. And the most interesting people after their forties don't even know what they want. There will come a time when you think, why are you doing this? This is not because you think, I have no badminton or this or that. This is also something you like. Yes, we also like that. I hear so many stories from people, we call them the golden handbushes. Some people are so stuck in their job. If you look them in the eye and ask them what they would really like to do, they will come with something. But it is not very feasible because they are stuck. I just had a lot of fun, I could get rid of it. And also had courage, because it also means not doing other things and not being able to do them. And therefore also bringing sacrifices, I think. Yes, courage. You say courage, I always say I have a manco, I never see a bear on the road. And if you had had it, but also from the home front of course. My wife, last week we had 30 years of intercourse. We have been together for 30 years. Congratulations. Yes, thank you. As she listens. But she always let me go. Imagine you have a partner and you see the twinkling in someone's eyes and you would like to do that and the woman says, it's not going to happen. Maybe the most beautiful ideas can die because your partner doesn't want that. And she is now even part of the museum because she does the entire hospitality industry. She took over, she set up her own job to be able to grow together in it. Is she also a flip fan? Flip-o-fuel sounds so unfriendly. Flip of you? No, that's totally not. Flip of you. When the other flip of you comes into the museum and we're flip of you. Yes, that makes it look like it actually. Then she says, I'm going to do something because you're not talking about that. It's just a wash basin, but I'm going to clean the toilet or clean the water washer. Yes.
    15:05
    No, they just think it's fantastic for me that I just really, yes. Super. Yes. Tell us about your museum, Gerrit, because we're coming in. Yes. It's a very nice building. And then? Yes, and then. How does it look? I always try to greet them myself. I have to leave sometimes, I'm not there sometimes. Because you are open to the public for three days a week. Open to the public. You are a museum seven days a week. We want to hear something about it later. We have clearly understood that, but you are open to the public for three days. Yes, on Wednesday afternoon, Saturday afternoon and Sunday afternoon we are open. And then I receive people and then I just tell them, I try to be friendly. I also have a bad day, because I'm standing in Bad Sacherijnen. But basically I want to be very friendly to everyone. I will explain it. I always try to tell people that we are a museum, but a very special museum. I had the word used the word museum. A museum for the use. A lot of people have a wrong image of a museum. They think they have their hands on their back and look around. That is often the case. Yes, almost always. We have a beautiful history room where you can read and watch, but we also have an active part. People can't make a distinction between the active part and the museum. But you can still sit there. People find it very strange to rhyme that in their heads. And explain to the public that it is 100% museum and a large part can be used. How cool would it be if you could touch the night guard? It's all ours, we understand. It's from the state, so it's ours. But we can't sit there. Yes, and we are allowed to do that. So the concept is complete. But we also show real history. Where does it come from? Pinball has existed since 1777. And we have the newest flip-flops. And flip-flops mean no pinball again. That's a very difficult story. The exact translation of pinball actually means nothing more than a board with spikes. Yes, spikeball. In France it was invented in 1977. And since 1947 there have been flippers in a pinball machine. That's why we called the flipper box in the Netherlands. We should have called it a pinball with flippers. I'm sure if I started in 2015 with the Dutch pinball with flippers museum, come too. Then nobody will come. But you know, we have really nice time lines, nice stories, beautiful old objects that you can really look at, the beauty of it. Because a flip-up cabinet is more than just the game. Put me in front of a flip-up cabinet with a... Well, I don't drink wine, but you know, people like wine. Put me behind a flip-up cabinet with a cup of beer and I can tell you the best stories. About the artwork, hidden jokes, why is that like this, why did they come up with this. A piece of mechanics, you know, just name it. There's so much more. You go to another museum, you go to a painting, you go to see artwork. Every Flipperkast has a beautiful painting in its head. Artwork. That is by someone with a lot of passion, drawn in the assignment of... You know, Rembrandt didn't work any other way. He also said, you get an assignment and a lot of people stand in line. You just paint it. Well, the Flipperkast designer also got an assignment. You have to make a cabinet of Tommy van der Hoel. And Roger Daltrey and Anne Market have to be on that head. And I would also like a tea pot. Because they also found that very exciting. And yes, look at such a headlight, we call it. And yes, it is just, it is something magical. Set a TV, no matter how beautiful a TV can be, set it off and there is nothing on it. Set a flipkart, just take it out and you look at it and it is something magical. Yes, but you are right, because there is of course also a very, very fairytale-like thing in it. I mean in a positive way of saying it. There is of course a lot of entertainment in it. Yes indeed and drawings and music and a game and actually everything is in it. Yes, very special. Yes, well nice. And all kinds of themes too. Because themes, flip, I mean, come up with it and there is a flip box of it. Yes. Star Wars or well Chucky. Funhouse. Yes, Funhouse. Yes, it is known to everyone. It is Chucky. That was my favorite. A lot of people say Chucky, but it is not Chucky, but it is Funhouse. Funhouse is based on an attraction from the 60's in a theme park in the US. It's a trick they do from the factory. Every box has a theme. Why? Take the Game of Thrones box for example. We have it here too. For a box manufacturer it's actually very cheap to buy a license from Game of Thrones. That costs an X amount. Let's say 100.000 dollar. And then they buy the theme from a film producer. And then they can do everything with it. They can use the artwork, the music, the visual material. And then they make a flip-over. And people love it, they also buy the flip-over. Imagine they say, we're going to make a theme, we're going to invent it ourselves. Then you have to make the artwork, the music, the visual material. That's much more expensive. The branding behind it is not there. The attraction is enormous. I sometimes tell people, if I have some time, let's say I give you a virtual coin. You can play one game in our collection. What are you going for? 99% of the answers are just people are looking for something recognizable. Do you think Iron Maiden as a band is fantastic? Then you want to flip there. If you have good memories of your childhood and you see Indiana Jones, you go for Indiana Jones. Yes. And that's how it works. So it's a very nice change. Yes, yes, certainly. Nice Gerard, we're going to know a lot more about it. I've already learned from you so far, so that's nice. Yes, people sometimes want to hear a little music. So next to the chat we're going to listen to a track by René Klein. Mr. Blue. Yes, I became known with, you just said it. Bam to bam, Bam to bam. Yes, exactly. With Locomotion. Yes. It was a boys band and before that he was little known I still remember it well and eventually he broke through at Paul de Leeuw and I was able we could enjoy his world hit Yes definitely know It strikes me that all the songs we have played so far except for the song you have of course brought with you but you also just knew the other two You also know the facts of that. Yes, that also comes from 25 years, so just really nowhere in the building, you know, always on the radio, always. Yes. Then you become a prospect. And I also like the facts and all that. Yes, but you were just talking about the top 2000 in a break. Yes. So I think there is also a little hobby in the music. Yes, yes, that's right. No, that's very nice. Yes, back to the hobbies of flipping. In one go you have 160 boxes or so. Yes. What happened? Yes, I always tell people it's my life's work. But the story is the life work. When I opened in 2015, I think I had 40 or 50. It was impressive. And the rest is just all collected in the years. It's actually a very strange month if I don't buy two or three flip-flops. Still. And it goes on. And in our museum there are always 100 playable. But it changes. Because a flip-flop breaks. There is an American saying that says, if it ain't broken, it ain't pinball. That means if it's not broken, it's not a flipper case. You haven't played enough on it, have you? It breaks. If a flipper case breaks, we try to make it. On days when we're not open. If that doesn't work, we take it out. We put another one down. Then we have more time to fix the other one. So it's always a kind of changing collection. And all those cases together. And I also like it for the returning customer. That they come and say hey, do you have any news? That makes it fun. You don't like that kind of language, do you? I can enjoy here and there some marketing and strategy choices. I get a little bit of that. A little bit of that, yes. Then I say to them, imagine you're going to do my marketing. What are you going to tell me? Because I can't tell you anything else that I can tell myself with more passion than you. That's just difficult. Yes, but you also notice that, because we also talked about it in the pre-session. Why are you open for three days? You can also be open for seven days and moneymaker. Gerard explains. Yes, it is really passion. I have chosen to be open for three days and during the weekday, some people are always active on the weekend, they can never be. And on the weekend. And I can just focus on the museum. I also have to have a day off and I work it all. And suppose I leave it to others, we open seven days a week. And there are other faces, then in my eyes it is a smaller museum. But the flip-flops have to be maintained. We can't say in the morning, we're going to open again. We have to. There's just a bit of peace. And we also do... The museum is also bookable for decided groups. So if a group comes on a Friday, we'll also get ready for that. But I still want to buy a flip-flop. Then I sometimes go to Belgium or Groningen. And then I go and see for myself if the flip-flop that is offered is as we have described it. I'm not going to send a chauffeur and say, well, do it. I want to see it myself. And then I come there and there are beautiful stories above water. And then I get it. I get it and I take it with me. And so there are so many stories in my head. Because how often a day do you check your marketplace? Yes, 10, 20 times. I have the luxury that a lot of people watch it. I get an app that says, hey, it's for sale. That Chucky Flipperkast. But we already have that. But a second one is not that special. But is there always only one?
    25:28
    No, Flipperkast is taken into production. And Flipperkast can be made into a prototype. To the most produced Flipperkast. The Adams Family. 21,252 times made. But that's very little worldwide. But that's okay. Everyone knows Pac-Man from the 80's. That big yellow monster that was in the cranes. That was made more than 300,000 times. The pinball was really a big hit at that time. But pinball is definitely something. But we also have prototypes in the museum. Where there is just one hand full. Kill Bill, one of them made. The Matrix, one of them made. We made it ourselves. But an archelous visitor comes by and he doesn't know that. It's so beautiful. Ten years ago a friend of mine made a flip-flop. My biggest wish was, I love movies, I love music and I love flip-flops. Let's build a Matrix flip-flop. It didn't exist. And we did that. And we have been working on it for years. There is really 3500 man-hours plus in it. And it is then in the museum and people are allowed to play. And then I see, it happens sometimes that I'm sitting on the market place in the evening and then we had a visitor who then went to the museum. Oh, that was fun, I'm going to put it on the market place, searched, the Matrix flipkart. Because they just think, oh that's just an existing model. But that's not the case. And I think that's their own compliment. The one off. Yes, but flipkarts that are very rare, very difficult to get. You know, that's just a very exclusive, the most expensive flipkart we have, well, money, yes, I don't know if we have money, but that's a flipkart of 50,000 euros. We borrowed them. We have a special insurance for them. They are not allowed to be played. But they will be included. It is fantastic. The Rolls Royce under the pinball machines. Yes, there are some more expensive ones. But I don't even come across them. Most people listen to this program. You can also watch it on Ziggo. But for the people who listen and don't watch it. Gerard also has a flipper closet shirt on. What is your most beautiful or best cast? What is your ultimate cast? You have to give a disappointing answer, that does not really exist. They are all kind of children, you are not going to point out your favorite child. It is like music, the top 2000, smulk from number 1 to number 2000. A flip-up cabinet is really something amazing. There are no stupid flip-up cabinets. And if you had to put it on a list, then there is one, the lowest one, and then I can enjoy it. Yes, that's nice. Yes, exactly. So there is not one favorite. There is not one favorite. No, they all have something. I played on a new flip-up cabinet last week, a friend of mine bought it. A very exclusive one, it's just not available for us. The James Bond 60th Edition. Fantastic boy, I have played that evening with such a big smile on my face. And I invite myself to go out with him a few more times. And I think, yes, fantastic. But then it's just, you know, sometimes the possession of the case is the end of the fun. And just the fact that I know that he has me and I can always come by if I want and I can play. It might give me more fun than I have. I can't find the time to play it. Yes. And what's still in the game? Yes, we are working on expansion plans. We started small in 2015. And every year it's actually a kind of doubling. We have been sitting on Katendrecht for almost five years. We didn't have to leave. That's a bit special. Everyone thinks we're sent there. On day one, when I signed my contract, I knew there was an end date. We had a great opportunity to grow there. We have been there for four and a half years. After four and a half years we were somewhere and then we could go to the building where we are now. But also just started small. The entire building is 1700 square meters of floor space. And we do export 700 meters. But we want to pull the car up this year and see if we can go to 1000. And then we don't go from 100 to 200 flip boxes. I want a lot more of the museum experience. So much more space. Why is the night guard in the Rijksmuseum on one wall? Why is there not a painting next to it? To make it flourish completely. So I want a lot more spread. So just a nice flip box and a nice story. Why is that Chucky flip box from 1990 so special? You know, you've always played it, but there are some very nice stories.
    30:21
    I can tell you all, but we don't have enough time for that. And I want to tell that kind of story. Yes. You know, that makes it even more special. So really grow in it.
    30:32
    Yes, so it's also about telling stories. Telling stories, a lot. Yes, because with my collection I also had an ordinary, you know, nightly outing. If you buy ten beers and ten coins, you can go crazy. Put those beers on the flipper case and when they're gone, it won't hurt anymore. They are really dear to me. Everyone can enjoy it. But it comes before people are too enthusiastic and from too enthusiastic to too wild. I have to address that. You have to calm down. Doe even rustig, ja maar vroeger, ja maar waarom denk je dat we ze niet meer in kroeg gezien hebben? Eén van de redenen is gewoon mensen waren er toch een beetje te wild mee. Te enthousiast. Te enthousiast, laten we het zo zeggen. Over enthousiast gesproken, toen wij jou vroegen, nou wat zijn plaatjes die voor jou van betekenis zijn, kwam jij ook met Duncan Lerner's met Arcade van Sock Festival. Can you tell us why that is a special track for you? I heard that song for the first time. For me, the world is turning around, I don't know anymore. And I listened to the lyrics, because I also like lyrics. Because otherwise music is all music. And I thought, really? Did that guy tell an autobiographical story about my life? That would not be the case. Go listen to the lyrics of Duncan Lawrence Arcade. A small town boy in a big arcade. I got addicted to a losing game. Penny in the slot, Game Over. Yes really And I also think it a really serious and fantastic song A nice song too My daughter and I do this every year we have agreed to watch the Song Festival together We still do that and we going to do that again now And that year that was really just a euphoric moment you know Just yes, you know, I won, but also with a text that speaks to you very much. That speaks to you very much. We're going to listen to it. Duncan Lawrence. Yes, we're almost going to the Song Festival again. Yes, I'm looking forward to it. Would you like to go? No, not that. From the TV with a bag of chips I think that's good too. And those bag of chips are already there. If the bar was open here, I would also drink a bag of chips. You have to watch a cooking program. They always talk about wine, but it always has to be the word beautiful. I remember when I was with my daughter, she took a list of things to do. And every time they use the word beautiful in a cooking program, you have to say something. Yes. Then you're staniekely surprised how often that word passes by. Yes, certainly in combination with wine. Yes, nice product, nice mug. And me as your daughter. Do you have other children? Yes my son, uh Yuri and Julijn. Uh also a nice story, Yuri, my 23rd son. I have been working with the vending machine for the rest of my life and the children also know that if no one else, there is a vending machine at home. And you have to imagine that they are children. They go to school, go to play with friends. Everyone has their TV, everyone has a magnetron. Where is your flipping box? Do you not have a flipping box? But I noticed that children often wanted to play with us. I have been active in the world for a long time. With the Dutch flipping association. And also with Dutch championships. In 2011, my son was 12 then. Written for the youth championships. Flipperen until he was 16 years old. And he participates. And he is not really with two fingers in his nose. He is a Dutch champion. But he became Dutch champion flipper in 2011. Look. How cool. And actually it was like this is the normal thing. Of course. It's a kind of Max Verstappen effect. He doesn't know better. He thought, what's all this about? What a hysteria. Yes, good.
    34:19
    I have my flip. He has been living on himself for a short time. I have put a flipper in his living room. He can play nice. Yes, at least you would want to see that he is also so infected with the virus in 30 years. But not until now. I want to ask that, because are your children also fans of it? Yes, but they know so much about it. You know, when we sit up a bit, they come to help in the museum. My daughter is in the hospitality industry. Or my son becomes the floor manager. Or he takes over the domain task. And how does he do that? I observe him and think, oh yes, it's just like his father. Oh yes, he doesn't have that from a stranger. We always comfort the moment. Yes, about championships. Were there any Dutch championships in the museum? Yes, last November we were able to organize and facilitate the Dutch Pinball Open in a weekend of November. It was so fantastic. We had 100 flip boxes pushed in by the Dutch Flip Association and that is under 200. And yeah, just championships. But it's more than championships. It's just, we had about 1100 visitors in three days. The whole community comes together. And some of them don't even flip. It's just talking, listening. There are some cents you can buy. And it's just one big party. That is, yes, with a little frustration always in it. Yes, then eventually the winner on Sunday evening, Dutch champion flippering. You go to the US and organize something silly and you say, the winner is the world champion flipper. Why can't we do that? We have to come up with something. Yes exactly. But very cool that it took place with you. Yes, this year they are going somewhere else. The Dutch Flipper Association existed for 30 years. They went to a big city once. It came together. If we're going to do it again, I don't think so. But I'm playing with the idea of doing a different version.
    36:22
    The Rotterdam Spinball Open or something. Just do it. Hans? Yes. I'll say Hans. Hans will probably do it too. Hans, just do it. Yes, but be full of it. Absolutely. Just follow your heart. Yes, exactly. Just follow your heart. And then you'll come up. Yes. But it can't be all the same. So Hans, you're more than welcome to help. Yes. How many pinball museums are there? Worldwide? Worldwide, yes. I don't know them. In America, every state has a pinball museum. Maybe. In Europe, there are several. In Paris, there is one. In Hungary, in Krakow. In Germany, there is one. But I'm pretty proud of it. Because nobody does it like we do. I'm going with friends. This year in October, we're going to Chicago. We're also going to Las Vegas for two days. Chicago is a very large exchange of flyers, but Las Vegas is the largest pinball museum in the world. A kind of aircraft hangar with 600 flyers. But the atmosphere and ambiance is not an education, but it is a museum. And then we come to us, boy, and it's such a atmosphere full of buildings. You can with 100 flyers and the right atmosphere, ambiance, education, have a lot better relationship and passion than 600 flyers in a plane. Yes, of course, absolutely. That's just how you give that shape. And it is rewarded because you just said to us that you get a lot of foreign visitors. And how do those visitors come to you? Yes, I know, I try to ask them, but what helps us a lot is TripAdvisor. We are currently number one on TripAdvisor. Look, that's good for the algorithm. Yes, unbelievable. How then? I don't understand it. I myself also go to Barcelona for a weekend, I go to TripAdvice to see what they are doing and then I let my lead through. It works for us and everyone is enthusiastic again and it is a kind of a very big olive branch. How beautiful is this? Yes, fantastic. Yes, right? And then we are actually ... Those people just come for you. Yes, Gerard. For your hobby, for the things you have created there. Yes, well, you know, if I were to continue on that, I would no longer be there, I would still want it to continue. So I leave some behind that will stay with me until the end of the days. Is that the dream, well the dream sounds so popular again, but is that the one where you go far ahead? Yes, for example that I walk under the tram and I'm not there and my wife says this was it and sell it and done. Yes, it is her right to do that, but how beautiful would it be if it existed before. A passion is not for sale, but it will always be there. It will come, if that seed is planted. And in 30 years it will still exist. That would be fantastic. Do you know people around you who are just as passionate about flipper boxes and flippers as you? You should even come to an agreement with the Dutch Flipper Association. I have 1500 malots in the Netherlands and Belgium. Put them together. Take a lot of deodorant with you. But you hear the best stories. Yes, yes. But is it not possible there? Not that we are busy with your follow-up. But maybe you are also looking for someone who will be your legacy someday. I see that we have a museum and our technology team consists of a large number of volunteers. And very funny, there was a boy in the street, his name was Bart. Bart was the first to know that we were coming to the new museum. He was letting his dog out and he was once at the old location. And he said, sir, is this the Pinball Museum? Yes. Well, then we went open. I said, are you interested in a job? He was 16 years old. He still works there, he is 18, 19 by now. He has completely taken over. Yes, it is. That boy has in two or three years. It's just a virus. Virus. It's just a positive virus. Yes, there will be a new box of flippers. And I'm very old school. We take such a box of flippers out of a box and put it down. And then you have to get to know the rules of the game. And he's going to tell me what to do. Because I have already given tutorials on YouTube and read them. Yes. I don't do that. I want to. He says, you have to do this. I say no, I'll find out. Yes. And unbelievable. But that is also from. But we recently bought his first flip-up closet. So if you just start mowing very young and planting those seeds, someone will really come out. Where do we find you? On social media www.dutchpinbalmuseum.com, not .nl. On Facebook, even on TikTok, I know it all, the Instagrams. Dutch Pinbal Museum and you will really find us. It was great to have you here. We have a few more minutes before it's time. So I don't have to jump on the spot, but it was great to hear how passionate you are about this Gerard. I think the listeners have learned so much more about flipping and flipping boxes than you. I say we're going to do a pot like that. Yes, exactly. You are always the one who is the winner. I'm not, but I want to say Gerard. Yes, that's your excuse, Frédéric. I'm sorry. Does anyone win for you? Yes, Flippenkast is a strange thing. Everyone can win for everyone. But if you put the nine pots against each other, then you're really going to lose. So the fun thing about Flippenkast is that everyone can win for everyone. Imagine a man and a woman come into the museum. The man is completely passionate, takes his wife with him. Then the woman comes, smiling down. I won it. Haha, that's honest. Yes, but wait a minute, I thought that was also very cool. I once went to the Flip Run with Rob. Well, I did my best once. I thought it was nice when I came into your neighborhood. Yes, that was fun. You can never win from the Flip-A-Kast, you can win from each other. Exactly. But it's a game, you know, you don't hurt anyone. No. You know, Monopoly is also fun, you know, but that it can still be blood fanatic and that it can be open. Yes, just a nice game. Very nice. Well, thank you very much again. Are you free here at home to come by again Gerard? And in the meantime a lot of Flippo, Ville, Fanaat, pleasure I would say. Yes, thank you. Gladly done. Thank you.