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Tribe Multiball with Rachel and Tim: Episode 4, The Topper-less Correspondent

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Apr 15, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Tribe podcast ep explores operator economics, casual play accessibility, and location strategy with Brian Cosner

Summary

Rachel Lilge and Tim Dan Lee host Tribe Multiball Episode 4 with guest Brian Cosner (Tribe #34), a small-time pinball operator at Ballot Brewing in Danville, Virginia. Discussion covers Cosner's location operation (Stranger Things, Ghostbusters, Beatles, TMNT Stern machines), operator economics (pricing strategy at 50¢/play), community engagement via Twitch streaming, Pinside marketplace downtime/recovery, and nostalgia about pre-COVID Pinball Expos. Hosts emphasize accessibility, casual player experience, and non-competitive approaches to pinball enjoyment.

Key Claims

  • Stranger Things Stern has earned double the revenue of any other game at Cosner's brewery location

    high confidence · Brian Cosner directly stated earnings tracking over ~2 years of operation

  • Cosner intentionally prices games at 50¢/play to give casual players better value and reduce frustration

    high confidence · Brian Cosner explained pricing philosophy to avoid 'ripped off' feeling for casual players

  • Stranger Things has a visual toy (Demogorgon reveal) that significantly drives casual player engagement vs. competitive players

    high confidence · Multiple hosts noted Demogorgon reveal as standout feature; Cosner confirmed it drives location revenue

  • UV kit for Stranger Things is no longer in production or severely supply-constrained

    medium confidence · Tim stated: 'they are not from what I understand' regarding ongoing UV kit production

  • Pinside marketplace experienced downtime and lost ~1 hour of login streak data upon recovery

    high confidence · Tim and Rachel discussed Pinside outage; Pinside admin stated 'she only lost like an hour of data'

  • A Jersey Jack Pinball Pirates of the Caribbean Collector's Edition is listed on Pinside at $39,000

    high confidence · Tim stated this while discussing secondary market pricing on Pinside after it came back online

  • Co-op mode programming would take only 'a couple hours' according to a JJP representative

    medium confidence · Brian Cosner recalled hearing this on a podcast (possibly from Jersey Jack), but explicitly said 'don't quote me if I'm wrong'

  • Stranger Things has a 'Final Showdown' bonus mode accessible by holding both flipper buttons

    high confidence · Tim discovered this feature and confirmed it exists; Rachel planned to test it on nearby Stranger Things machine

  • Mark Silk performed vocal work (callouts) for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pinball; Ken Cromwell also involved

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm going to be honest Rachel I love toppers I used to hate them but I love them now so don't tell Scott Ian”

    Tim Dan Lee @ ~5:00 — Reveals personal attitude shift about topper accessories; playful reference to Scott Ian (Poor Man's Pinball co-host) who may hold contrary opinions

  • “I will sell you mine for $2,000. With that Black Knight topper you have, you still got the Black Knight topper, right? I'll give you two of them for $4,000.”

    Tim Dan Lee @ ~22:00 — Humorous secondary market pricing joke about toppers, reflects scarcity and collectibility

  • “He said, I could have it done in a couple hours. so my my thinking is that why don't they just put it in all the games”

    Brian Cosner @ ~18:30 — Relays unverified claim about co-op implementation ease; points to design philosophy gap between manufacturers

  • “Stranger Things has made more money than any other game that I've had there at the brewery. Usually it makes double what anything else makes.”

    Brian Cosner @ ~38:00 — Empirical operator data on location earnings hierarchy; Stranger Things significantly outperforms Ghostbusters and Star Wars

  • “I found that these new modern Sterns with the LCD screens and the best themes, they earn the best out there on location.”

    Brian Cosner @ ~51:00 — Operator perspective on which game types (modern, themed, LCD-heavy) drive location revenue; contradicts some tournament player skepticism

  • “I wanted to give people a better deal because I didn't want to let them feel like they got ripped off because they may not be good at pinball.”

    Brian Cosner @ ~56:00 — Reveals operator philosophy balancing profitability with accessibility and casual player retention

  • “I watch a lot of the streams, not necessarily to gain pinball knowledge, but I just like to kind of get in there or similar interjection there on the community and chat with other people”

    Tim Dan Lee @ ~64:00 — Highlights social/community aspect of Twitch streaming over mechanical skill development

Entities

Rachel LilgepersonTim Dan LeepersonBrian CosnerpersonScott IanpersonDrewpersonZach SharpepersonMark Silkperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Poor Man's Pinball Podcast running active Twitch streams with ~2/3 off-topic content, ~1/3 pinball focus; community values chat interaction over pure skill content; streams attracting numbered tribe members who participate actively

    high · Multiple speakers (Brian, Tim, Rachel) confirm watching streams primarily for chat interaction; Tim mentions it's not about gaining knowledge but community connection

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinside technical support community (particularly LTG/Lloyd) providing rapid, high-quality troubleshooting for newcomers; forum functioning as critical knowledge base for first-time owners and operators

    high · Tim: 'He will answer almost any question I've seen and answer it in just a few minutes. He's a wealth of knowledge'; Lloyd described as answering questions within minutes despite being volunteer community member

  • ?

    community_signal: Danville, Virginia emerging as small operator hub with themed brewery location; Stranger Things as anchor tenant driving significant foot traffic from travel events (VIR racetrack)

    medium · Cosner established location with 3-4 machines at Ballot Brewing; receiving Pinside messages from distant travelers who played his machines

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Ghostbusters identified as 'much more difficult' than Stranger Things; game mode accessibility requiring coin door access vs. modern flipper-hold access creating friction for casual operators

    medium · Cosner notes Ghostbusters 'God Mode' requires opening coin door vs. newer games where 'you hold both the flipper buttons in' to access modes; this accessibility gap affects casual play

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.182

0:00
Hello friends, welcome to Try Multiball with Tim and Rachel, a pinball podcast that focuses on a dynamic collection of pinheads that share a mutual belonging to the tribe of the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. I am your co-host, Rachel Lilge, along with your other co-host, Tim Lee. And welcome. First of all, I'd like to thank all of our listeners that we've had. Thank you for all the positive feedback about our show. How are you doing, Tim? I'm doing great. How are you? I'm pretty good. Do you have any pinball news that you'd like to talk about or anything personal that you'd like to talk about? Not a lot of stuff this week. I got my second vaccination shot, so I'm good to come see you all at Expo. Yay. Pretty big family week again this week, so I didn't do a lot of pinball. I did get back on pin side, so that's pretty cool. I purchased some Invisiglass, so that's kind of cool. And most importantly, I got a new topper. I got the Stranger Things topper. I'm going to be honest Rachel I love toppers I used to hate them but I love them now so don't tell Ian I won't tell anybody but I'm going to be honest with you I never pay attention to the topper while playing ever I don't even see it to be honest with you but when my wife plays I stand behind it and I'm like oh the infinity lights are really cool neat I'll have to check it out you'll have to share a video of that so I can see that yep will do but that's about all I did this week how about yourself not much I am going to have quite a bit of pinball my upcoming week that I'll probably talk about in our next episode I have League coming up this week at District 82 there is a double tournament at District 82 as well called the Great Lakes Pinball Open that is going to be on April 17th as well so that should be interesting I'll be playing in that so I'll report on that next week that's about it I think for oh I also got my COVID shot so I'm also excited about that and I'll be able to be at Expo as well how fun yeah and the rumor has it you're a hugger right you love to hug i'm a hugger i'm a big hugger so let's hug people let's do it i really think i need a shirt i really think i need a shirt that says free hugs because i'm that kind of person yeah i have no doubt in my mind that drew's a hugger as well so yes he is i have hugged him once before and he's a good hugger but here we are in episode four and our guest today is brian cosner hello coz hey hey how you guys doing how are you i'm doing great i remember i was just listening to you guys and rachel's like thank you for those positive comments i would say and for all you haters screw you yeah yeah thanks appreciate that drew is a great hugger he tried to hug me repeatedly at expo the other year. I'm sure he did. I think he had a few to drink. Shocker. That was when he was trying to take his shirt off and give it to Zach's wife. And he's like, hey, I know you want a poor man's pinball podcast shirt. He's like, just have the one I'm wearing right now. Here, you can have it. And he was taking it off and she's like, oh, I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, that might have been a sweaty shirt or something too. I don't know if I would have taken it. That's very sweet. Kaz, what's your tribe number? I had to look at my coin to make sure. because i was getting the numbers mixed up no i'm tribe member 34 34 oh i'm number 35 so that's interesting you both have to buy me a beer i'm better than you how come hey how come you get to do this podcast if i'm sooner than you on the tribe count timley asked me that's one i actually dropped it in a couple of the episodes in the chat and rachel's the one that responded to me first pay attention to that stream you know i'm just messing with you i i love watching the poor men's stream it's a great live show that's good yeah it's highly entertaining you know it's about you know maybe two-thirds just like random talk and about one-third pinball i'm okay with that me too yeah it sounds like a nice mixed cocktail there two-thirds of something a third of something else. Throw a little Greta Dean in there. Sure. Sounds good. It's a good show. It's definitely evolved from when they first started. They've got almost 100 episodes now. So they've definitely been doing it for a while. It's definitely evolved. I really like the live format where you can kind of interact with them and send something on there and they'll read it and see that. So I like the interactivity with the Twitch stream. So I definitely like that aspect. so me too uh i think my first question today is we've been asking our other tribe members what they've been doing currently with pinball meaning you know are you i don't know if you're able to play locally um honestly now pinball daily i have had games here at my house down in the basement um when i first started the collection but i've transitioned my main pinball hobby to being a small-time operator here at a local brewery. It's called Ballot Brewing here in Danville, Virginia. I've got three games over there right now. I'm getting ready to have four. I mainly have had Sterns out there on location. They seem to be pretty reliable. I keep all those the same just so I can have replacement parts on hand. Right now I've got Stranger Things Pro, which has been doing great. Ghostbusters Pro. I've got a Beatles. I'm getting ready to put the Turtles Pro over there in the next week or two. Fun. Those are really fun titles. Yeah, so there's some modern games. Yeah, they definitely attract the eye. Yeah, and actually too, it's not as much pinball related, but one of my little nephews is having a birthday party. I think it's in about a week or so and he's having a Ninja Turtles birthday party. And I asked my brother-in-law and sister-in-law, I said, hey, look, I've got this brand new Ninja Turtles pinball machine. What if I brought this to his party and had it set up? I think that would really blow his mind if he could come upstairs and there's a Ninja Turtles pinball machine in his house for his birthday party. So I'm taking it to his house for the party, and then I'm taking it to the brewery to put on location. All in the same day? Probably so. Yeah, that would be the way to do it. That's really exciting. That game, the callouts are fantastic. I just want to sing along. I grew up with the Turtles. So, oh, yeah, I really like that people have added the custom code with the old show and all the things like that. Now, mine is still just the factory code. I'll just probably leave it like that since it's out there on location. But, yeah, I like all the call-outs. Mark Silk did those. I met him up there in the Chicago Expo the other year and actually had lunch with him and Ken Cromwell and some other guys. And it's nice to kind of say, hey, I know the guy that did the voices in that game. I had lunch with him.

high confidence · Brian Cosner stated he met and had lunch with Mark Silk at Pinball Expo and confirmed this attribution

  • Pinball Expo 2021 is expected to happen (though presented with cautious optimism)

    medium confidence · Rachel and Tim expressed hope for Pinball Expo 2021; Tim said 'Everything is looking like it's going to happen'

  • “I'm mainly there to pick on Drew the entire show the way Drew sucks at pinball we're not allowed to say that on this show it's been banned”

    Tim Dan Lee @ ~70:00 — Running joke about Drew's pinball skill; references established Poor Man's Pinball podcast dynamic and inside humor

  • “I really like the live format where you can kind of interact with them and send something in there and they'll read it and see that.”

    Brian Cosner @ ~12:00 — Praises interactive Twitch format; indicates community values real-time engagement over passive consumption

  • “I'm just I like seeing people enjoy the games And for me to price them a little cheaper – look, I know I could probably put them at a dollar a game and I'd make a little bit more money.”

    Brian Cosner @ ~55:00 — Core motivation statement: operator prioritizes customer experience and hobby accessibility over maximum profit extraction

    • Ken Cromwell
    person
    Lloyd (LTG)person
    Cassandra Petersonperson
    Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization
    Ballot Brewingorganization
    Pinsideorganization
    District 82organization
    Pinball Expoevent
    Stranger Things Pinballgame
    Ghostbusters Pinballgame
    Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Pinballgame
    The Beatles Pinballgame
    Star Wars Premium Edition Pinballgame
    Pirates of the Caribbean Collector's Editiongame
    Great Lakes Pinball Openevent
    Virginia International Raceway (VIR)organization
    Twitchorganization

    design_philosophy: Visual toy prominence (Demogorgon reveal) in Stranger Things driving casual player engagement significantly higher than competitive-focused games; Stern modern LCD-themed games outperforming location earnings vs. older/simpler titles

    high · Cosner: 'Stranger Things has made more money than any other game...Usually it makes double what anything else makes'; multiple hosts note Demogorgon reveal as standout feature driving casual adoption

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo 2021 planned as major tribal meetup event; COVID uncertainty resolved enough for cautious optimism; previous 2020 cancellation (Pinberg, Winchester Mystery House) causing significant community disappointment

    medium · Rachel/Tim: 'Everything is looking like it's going to happen'; Tim references 2020: 'We legit thought going into Winchester Mystery House that we might still be able to play in there'

  • $

    market_signal: Secondary market pricing inflation evident on Pinside; $39,000 listing for Jersey Jack Pirates Collector's Edition reflecting scarcity/collectibility premium; Cosner's 50¢ pricing strategy countervailing market trend toward premium pricing

    medium · Tim jokes about $39,000 Pirates CED on Pinside and $10,000 'Kathy Adams' game; Cosner deliberately prices at 50¢ to avoid 'ripped off' feeling and drive repeat play

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Voice talent (Mark Silk) for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pinball actively engaged with community; Cosner personally met Silk at Pinball Expo and had lunch

    high · Cosner: 'I met him up there at the Pinball Expo the other year and actually had lunch with him and Ken Cromwell and some other guys'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Operator preference for standardized Stern inventory (Stranger Things, Ghostbusters, Beatles, TMNT) over diverse manufacturer mix; enables spare parts consistency and maintenance efficiency

    high · Cosner: 'I mainly have had Sterns out there on location. They seem to be pretty reliable. I keep all those the same just so I can have replacement parts on hand.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: UV kit aftermarket upgrade for Stranger Things significantly enhancing location appeal/earnings; currently out of production or severely supply-constrained despite strong demand

    high · Tim: 'they are not [being made] from what I understand'; Cosner purchased one 'a few months ago' and doubts current availability; describes it as 'ripoff' pricing but game-changing for location

  • ?

    technology_signal: Modern Stern machines (LCD screens, themed content, bonus modes) outperforming legacy/mechanical games in location settings; accessibility features (holdable flipper bonus modes) becoming standard expectation

    high · Cosner: 'these new modern Sterns with the LCD screens and the best themes, they earn the best out there on location'; hosts note Stranger Things has 'Final Showdown' mode, Avengers has bonus modes accessible via flipper hold

    • 7:12
    That's pretty cool. Donatello. Rafael. I usually choose Rafael. I think that's what I usually choose. When I was a kid, I was Donatello. So I pick him. Sure. No, since you cosplay as. It doesn't matter. I've only played the game somewhat randomly here at the house. My wife and kids played it. We threw it on co-op mode a few times and played. And just with my limited understanding of the rules, it didn't really matter which turtle I picked. It was kind of the same thing. But I really do like that. I like the co-op. I wish that Stern would have more co-op in their new games. I have a TMNT as well. I play Raphael because it's easier to start the mode.
    7:55
    So that's why I do it. But, yeah, pretty much they're all the same. But I agree with you, Kaz. I actually sent in a question to the Loser Kid Bimbo podcast when they had Keith Elwin on, and I said, hey, we want this in all the games, but we also want to play as villains. I really want to play the co-op mode or have my kids play against me as a villain in a game. They're the good guys and I'm the bad guy, but they haven't done that yet. Well, you know, that came out on one of the podcasts recently. It might have been one of the guys from Jersey Jack, so don't quote me if I'm wrong. I don't want to say anyone's name. But I remember them asking them, well, hey, why isn't there co-op in the games or how much trouble would that be to program that? And he said, I could have it done in a couple hours. so my my thinking is that why don't they just put it in all the games because that's what spooky's been doing yeah it's a great addition to a game um co-op and you know the 3v1 or the two versus two option as well i think they're all great and should be in any game i think it could definitely help when you have you know a family or if you got kids and somebody's maybe not quite as good at pinball so you could all you know have that three versus one so yeah you know what we do in the summer we were doing three versus one for ice cream if they could beat me as a family we would go get ice cream and they beat me every time i'm not gonna say i cheated but they beat me every time because i like ice cream oh yeah that's a good plan i think i can approve of that i think my kids would like that i'll have to try that out tomorrow you have you said you have a ghostbusters correct yes ghostbusters pro nice i really like the god mode on that played that I have I've set it up a few times and I left it there at the brewery I left it in god mode while I was there and kind of let some customers and people play that just so they could experience the game a little bit differently now I kind of wish it was available a little easier kind of like how the newer games if you hold both the flipper buttons in it allows you to get into that menu setting well you can't do that on Ghostbusters you have to have your key open the coin door get in there and change that setting you know in the menu so it's not as easily changeable. But it doesn't take but about a minute. But what I mean is if you're just any average person, you can go up to any Avengers or Turtles or even Stranger Things has the final showdown mode. It's available if you just hold both flippers in. Instead of playing a normal game, you can select those bonus modes. That's kind of how Jurassic Park has the escape nooblar mode. So I really like that Stern has those new modes available in there. So it's really good. yeah you get to experience the game in a whole different way that you might not normally be able to especially for a brand new player yeah absolutely now i just even i've had my stranger things on location since probably january of 2020 and i just pushed the both the flipper buttons in today and saw that you can get to that final showdown mode i didn't know you could do that that that is news to me as well i'm really excited because there's a stranger things not too far from me and i might have to go check that out yeah and tim was starting to talk about the topper the stranger things topper hey tim how come you got your topper before me because zach likes me more to be honest with you i i'm not making this up cause i got stranger things in january of 2020 and i told zach immediately if they ever make a topper for this game please put me on the list. Yeah, so you've been on the list for 14, 15 months now. Yeah, probably not that long. I might have waited a few months later, but I reminded him numerous times, and I've been asking him for about a year. Hey, is the topper coming? Is the topper coming? So I've been on the list for... Yeah, I saw that. You sent me a picture the other day because we had mentioned, you know, that I was going to get a topper too. So you sent me your picture of your topper, and I said, hey, I messaged Zach. When am I getting mine? He's like, I'm sorry, buddy. You're on the next shipment. I'm like, oh, I thought it was going to be coming any day. I've been looking on the porch.
    12:01
    Because I will sell you mine for $2,000. With that Black Knight topper you have, you still got the Black Knight topper, right? I'll give you two of them for $4,000. You will trade your Black Knight topper and your Stranger Things topper for Pirates of the Caribbean Collector's Edition. Yeah, exactly. Drop it off, you could have the toppers. hey I saw it speaking of you know that hey Pennside is back up did you guys see that I did so now you can finally go back on there and go buy that $39,000 JJP Pirates of the Crypt and you know collector's edition you can go get it now that's a really good deal I mean I was looking at you know that $10,000 Adams family there too that sounds great that's a great deal 10 000 yeah cheap i know right uh price are unbelievable i never looked but did all of our streaks like you know start back at zero because i had like four or five hundred days in a row oh your login and strikes yeah yeah your login streaks so i was wondering about that myself the other day because i know there was a couple people that had a streak of i'd say at least it was like 1200 days or 1300 days or something like that but i think what happened is if you go back and look on pin side everything reverted to the day that it went out yeah yeah she said she only lost like an hour of data yeah i think everything almost just like because if you go back and look at something now like that was really 12 days ago it'll say it was six days ago i think you know for those guys keeping on to that pin side streak it's probably still intact i'll have to check mine Kind of like a Snapchat streak where what we're talking about is there's a daily login, X amount of days, and you have 1,200 days that you've logged into Pinside, that kind of thing?
    13:52
    Yep, yep. Very similar, yep. Okay. Sorry, that's a little bit of a meaningless number to me. Well, me too, but I'm like I don't peruse Pinside that much, really just to look at the marketplace. That's it. I did miss it, yeah. It was really odd because I used to go on there a couple times a day or more. I just so used to going to it. I still kept going to it just thinking maybe it came back on. I was like, nope, not back on. I'm like, man, what happened? I really missed it. But like I said, honestly, when I didn't have it for a week, whenever it's been six days, I haven't really gone back now that it's back. Interesting. Behavior modification. I went six days without looking at it, and now that it's back, I really don't even care as much. It's just been a few days. I checked a couple of posts that I made looking for answers because here's an example of what I use Pinside for. I couldn't get my Guns N' Roses code to update, and no matter what I tried, I followed all the different steps. I used like four USB drives, and some guy just said pull the USB extender cord out of the board and plug your USB right into the board, and it will work. You probably have a broken dongle Yeah Tim is your dongle broken Tim I think my dongle broken I going to get that checked But no that the things I use Pinside for That makes sense. It's a great help. I've asked questions on there before because like anybody, look, anyone starting out, we all start out at different levels of knowledge in pinball. I started out with like no knowledge. So I remember asking questions. Hey, this flipper doesn't work anymore. What could it be? Well, hey, it's this or this. and just simple things. And Pennside is great for the help. And Lloyd on there, LTG, now that guy is the biggest help I've ever seen of anyone on Pennside. He will answer almost any question I've seen and answer it in just a few minutes. He's a wealth of knowledge.
    15:51
    That's great. That's a great resource, then. Have you ever messaged with him, Tim Boyes? Yep, yep, I have. He's answered a couple of questions, and I've gone back and looked at his previous posts, and they're very helpful. He's a great guy, too. I met him at the Pinball Expo when I went, and he was really nice. And I just told him, hey, thanks for answering all his questions. He said, hey, glad to help. And that's what he does. He sits there all day long and looks at Pennside and helps out everybody. So he's a great benefit to the community. I love people that are so generous with their wealth of knowledge that they just want to share and help others. no matter just pinball but anything in any aspect in life that's great hey cause i i want to step back a minute and ask you a question um you don't have to answer but of all the games you've had on location like do you have a top three that have earned you the most you know money or what the most popular games were as far as plays do you do you track that sort of thing i tracked it at first and i've done it for about two years now so i haven't been in it for years to you know to maybe be more of an expert on that. But just in the few years that I've done it, Stranger Things has made more money than any other game that I've had there at the brewery. Usually it makes double what anything else makes. Ghostbusters has done really well, and I had a Star Wars premium that I had for a while, and that did really well. So I would probably say that Stranger Things has been number one, and then Ghostbusters, and then Star Wars. Okay. Yeah, I kind of assumed you would say something along those lines. That's why I asked. Yeah, I know a lot of people, a lot of the really, I don't know if you want to call them the tournament scene or the real pinball people, they seem to kind of hate on Stranger Things more. But the average just casual fan walking up to it at the brewery, they must seem to connect with that theme. It's a much younger demographic that plays it. So if you're like teens and college age, every time I go down there, it's three or four people staying there at Stranger Things. I have one in my basement I don't play it a lot I played it because of the topper But I've had it so long I've played it enough But it gets played 5 or 6 times more than any game in my basement When people come over Everybody plays it We had some friends over And they went down in the basement And their kids played it People love it The game is somewhat simplistic in a way But also very deep in that it has more of the modern code, but I guess it has that easy-to-get-to feature where you can knock down a few drop targets, then the ramp comes down and it gives you something to hit, and you just visually see that. I think a lot of games these days are kind of lacking that big visual toy, if you want to call it. So that seems to have done really well on location. Like I said, it may not be the best game to have in your basement, but it's been the best game for me to have out on location, so that's why I have it. The first time I played Stranger Things was on location pre-COVID, right after it came out. And the first time that the ramp came down, and the Demogorgon monster was revealed, it's a really cool moment. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's really mind-blowing. So I can see just strangers to pinball walking up to it and saying, oh, maybe I've watched the Netflix show or whatever, and that happens to them because it is such an easy shot, an easy thing to do, and like, oh, you know, it's pretty awesome. I can totally relate to that, why it would be such a bread-earning game on location. I would think Ghostbusters actually, like for my age, I would think that would be a much more attractive game. But again, I guess... Much more difficult game. Yeah, it is for sure. And Stranger Things is much more recent than Ghostbusters, I guess. Yeah, I'll say that just in my short time of having been a small-time operator, I found that these new modern Sterns with the LCD screens and the best themes, they earn the best out there on location. And I tell you, I bought the UV kit for my Stranger Things, and I really was so against that. When they came out with it and said it was this add-on, it was $279, I said, man, I will never buy that. I'm not paying more money to put on my game that's out here on location. But I tell you, my game started earning so well that I said, you know what? If I can just take a little bit of these earnings and put back into the game and buy the UV kit, that just kind of makes my game a little bit more valuable because it has the kit. and it was really hard to get one because I got it a few months ago, and I don't even think Stern is making them anymore. If they are, it's just a very, very short supply of them. Yeah, they are not from what I understand. The UV edition, though, I think it's personally, I think that's a ripoff that Stern did it that way, but it really makes the game, what is it, upside down mode? That just is unreal. That is a really cool feature on a game. Mind-blowing. Yeah, like I said, I think that's kind of why it does well on location. It has some good lighting effects. It has an easy to see what to do bash toy. I think that's what makes it popular just for the casual fan. I think most people have dollar bill acceptors on mine. I think if they come in and throw a dollar in and play two games. I keep my games on 50 cent a piece too. I try to keep them a little cheaper. I'm thinking if they can come play two games for a dollar they'll have fun and hopefully they'll come back for more. And they may not be great at pinball, but I think they can still have fun on Stranger Things because of just the batch toy and getting that Demogorgon. At 50 cents, you're not just bringing – that's a great deal, number one. So thank you for doing that, Kahn. Oh, sure. That's awesome. But number two, just bringing that experience to people. you're sharing your love of pinball by you know lighting up other people's faces when they when they open up that demogorgon or whatever the game is that's so cool oh yeah yeah you know it's a lot of things where people everyone kind of does pinball their own way some guys have all the games in their basement some guys just play on location some people don't even own a single game but i just found what i really liked about pinballs i just like seeing people enjoy the games And for me to price them a little cheaper – look, I know I could probably put them a dollar a game and I'd make a little bit more money. But I wanted to give people a better deal because I didn't want to let them feel like they got ripped off because they may not be good at pinball. And if they only played for – if they put a dollar in and only played for 30 seconds or played Ghostbusters and had a really short game, that one bad experience might just make them say they don't ever want to play again. And not that I'm the only place they're ever going to see pinball, but I'm just trying to make it a little cheaper. And that way, if they can at least say, hey, well, at least I'm getting two games for a dollar, that if they had a really bad game, at least they have another game too. Do you leave extra balls and everything on? It's a full game? I guess whatever the factory settings are there, it's set for that. Now, we don't have any great tournament players or anybody like that that lives in my area, so I don't think anybody's going in there and blowing the game up. Gotcha. Yeah, I will say, though, one guy, my Ghostbusters, I don't know what the high score was, but one of the guys that works there at the brewery is pretty good at pinball, and he had, I think, five billion point games on there. He's like the grand champion, and I couldn't touch it. I couldn't get anywhere near that. Wow. I think I got a billion. That was as good as I could ever get. Yeah, that's awesome, though. I like that there are pinball players that are out there in the wild that are really, really great players that you're never going to see in a tournament. I love that. Yeah, there's a lot of great people out there that probably were just, you know, they may just be afraid of playing in some tournament or they may have no clue. He may not even know that there's a pinball scene. Right, exactly. Well, I will say that down there at the brewery where I have my games, like I said, we're here in a little small city, so it's not a lot of people. But we do get some travelers coming in for different things, and there's a racetrack near me that's called VIR, which is Virginia International Raceway. And they have Martinsville NASCAR races and things that are only about 20 or 30 minutes from me. So a lot of times people come into the area and they come to the brewery. so I have had it on Pennside and I notice every once in a while I get a message from someone just a random guy on Pennside he says oh man I played your game at the brewery I had a great time thanks for having it there so that made me feel really good that somebody came and had fun with it that they may live in New York State but they had come down for a race and came to the brewery and played a game that's awesome when I travel my family lives out of state most of my family lives out of state I make a point to look around and see what they have in the area. Well, when I was able to travel, you know what I mean? But I do appreciate that. Yeah, it's my little way of just giving back to pinball because I'm not really a great pinball player.
    25:03
    It's just I like putting the games out there for everyone to play. That's just kind of my way of giving back to the hobby right now. I love that. You know, I do have to say it is nice to talk with you and hear your voice, but we often end up chatting with you because I think that you're a little bit of a streaming junkie, aren't you? I watch some, sure. Yeah, because I think you and I are on the same streams every week because I see you on them all. I get on there for about 20 minutes and throw a few bits at them, and they get all excited. Oh, thank you for the bits, and then I head out. Yep, same here. Yeah, I like to spend maybe, I don't know, 20, 30 minutes, maybe 40 minutes sometimes just in the evening, settle down in the evening. It's interesting. I'm not always really watching them play, but I'm listening to the chat and it's fun to chat along. Yeah, you know, I watch a lot of the streams, not necessarily to gain pinball knowledge, but I just like to kind of get in there on the community and chat with other people that are there. That's the biggest thing that I like. I don't necessarily go to just watch them play pinball. It's more for the chat. Yeah. Yeah, I'm the same way. I like to actually, I stream it from my phone to my TV and then I like to follow along the chat on my phone usually. but sometimes I get lost trying to keep up especially when you have a lot of other friends like yourself and other people that you run into, it's interesting I also, sometimes in chat there will be other players that will be talking about the game and will be giving you little tips about usually it goes around the orbit and then will deadflip from the left flipper to the right or something I'm like oh that's interesting, you pick up little tidbits so yeah I really do enjoy Twitch Oh yeah, streaming is definitely great. Like I said, this past year when everyone was stuck at home and couldn't get out and a lot of locations were closed for a very long time, watching pinball on Twitch and things like that was a great way to connect back with people and the interactivity. And that's what I – we were talking about it earlier, just having the poor man show on Twitch. I just love the interaction and the chat, and that's what makes the show so good. I agree 100% I'm mainly there to pick on Drew the entire show by the way Drew sucks at pinball we're not allowed to say that on this show it's been banned sorry Drew doesn't suck at pinball well actually the rule is that Tim Lee cannot complain about Drew and his pinball skills until he plays against Drew I hope that we get to have maybe a tribe meetup at Expo or I don't know, what would we even call it? Yes. It's going to happen.
    27:47
    Everything is looking like it's going to happen. I think so. Just have to keep hoping the world continues to heal itself, right? I really missed last year's show. I was set up to go to the Texas Pinball Festival. American Pinball was going to have their big reveal of Hot Wheels, so I was going to kind of be there as a correspondent and kind of right there at the scene and I was going to just everything got shut down like oh the whole year nothing and you know we were at the beginning of the year we we had a little correspondent show that we did on the tpns probably about a year ago and you know we were talking hey do you think there's going to be a pinball expo you know this year and i think we thought that it still might was going to happen we didn't know how bad things were going to get yeah yeah my son and i were signed up to play in pinberg and we legit thought going into June that we might still be able to play in Pinberg. Looking back, you just kind of shake your head. There was a lot of hope and optimism that things were going to turn around and I guess things didn't. We wanted it to. We really hoped it did. I really did enjoy going to Expo in 2019. That's where I got to meet Drew and Ian and meet a lot of the other pinball personalities and podcasters and all the guys when I was helping out with Special and Lit. That was really, really, really nice. I really enjoyed that. I don't think I played pinball at all. I just think I hung out with everybody the whole weekend. Yeah, that's the fun part I'd imagine. Absolutely.
    29:15
    It was right when Elvira came out and I can't think of the guy's name. It's JJ. He's got Game Exchange I think is what it's called, but he had a private room upstairs that was fully stocked with whatever you wanted to drink. That's where everybody went. It was some kind of VIP suite and he had all the pinball machines up there in his room and he had elvira which was like just came out in like jurassic park and everything up there in his room nice and you could just go up there and go play and that was that was was really nice and that's kind of what i think i first met drew and ian that's where you know drew was trying to take his shirt off and all that mess i think that was before the urinal incident so pre-urinal that's that's a fun way to meet somebody for a time i think i met them down in the hallway. See, Ken Cromwell, when he was doing his Special Inlet podcast at the time, he had it set up for a pinball media meet and greet He had these tables set up and had all these times that all the podcasters or people that did YouTube shows or streaming or anything they would be able to sit right there and have everyone walk by and you could meet everyone And that's where I met everyone. I just kind of hung around that table the whole entire weekend for like three days straight.
    30:32
    Nice. That's where Ryan Kuyper and Dave Brennan, the other tribe members, were there with the TurboGrafx-7. I remember he had that Cyclops. I think he was talking about it on a recent podcast that he did with the Slam Tilt guys. But Dave had brought his Cyclops. And since that's Roger Sharp's game, somebody was like, hey, look, I'm going to just go get Roger Sharp. And he's going to come play with you guys. So I was standing there and playing. And here comes Roger Sharp. And he's like, hey, you guys want to play a four-player game? And sure. No, I don't want to play. Not at all with you. No, no, no. and he was saying when I did this falls this does this and he was telling Dave man he's like this game looks better than my personal game I have at home yeah that was fun I was recently fortunate enough to see that game in person that you're talking about and it is really nice Dave has a really nice collection it's definitely a unique game you don't see it very often that's the only time I've ever seen one but that's kind of what we missed about these shows is just getting together and it seems like a lot of guys and gals brought these games that you just never see anymore. They had a, I think it's a Kroll, some really, really rare random game from the 80s that maybe only there's one or two of. And it was a pristine mint one. And just you get to see all these different games that you never see anywhere else. That's a really fun thing. I have not experienced any kind of big shows like that because I came into pinball a little late there. I wasn't able to go to Expo that year for whatever other thing I had going on. So I'm very excited about going to the upcoming one if it does happen. But what I think it is funny, what I find, is that I'm thinking so much more about meeting other tribe members and hanging out with pals and playing pinball. I haven't really thought at all about entering the tournaments that are going to be there, which I think is great. That's a nice breath of fresh air there that I'm really much more focused about just hanging out with people than being competitive. Oh, yeah. I've done a few tournaments here and there and just not as great at pinball. So you could probably say, Drew, you could say, Kai sucks at pinball. It's probably more of a truer statement. But I will say that every big event that I've gone to, the main thing is just having fun interacting with everyone. I mean most big event has a tournament. But when I went up there to Expo, I spent more time just chatting and one-on-one with everybody. Of course, they had a tournament, but you're crazy. You're going to spend your whole time running around the tournament just playing, and then you don't really get to see anybody. You don't get to have fun. Can I miss out on all that?
    33:08
    Great. I'm a chatter, so I'll just be talking to people. No tournament here. I did go to Replay FX just to go to the show, but I didn't know anybody then. I was too new into pinball, and I enjoyed playing the games with my son, but I didn't know anybody to talk to anyone. There's a lot of games they had there, wasn't it? Yeah, and then I got thrown out.
    33:32
    I kept going on to the tournament floor to play the games. I actually had no idea it was the biggest pinball tournament in the world, and I just went out and started playing those games. They didn't have very good signage. They did not have very good signage. I was doing it at the breaks once they tossed me out the first time, but eventually they just told me not to come back. but I was not bothering the tournament. I would go when they weren't playing, and I was an easy target, but I had no clue whatsoever. I had been in pinball for like three weeks, no lie. We had a beach house pinball machine. I got hooked. I saw that there was this pinball show in Pittsburgh, and I went to it. Didn't know anything about it. Had no clue. I actually had told this story before. I stood by Keith Elwin. he was playing Jurassic Park and the Machine beside me at the coin taker booth and I thought he was a coin taker employee so I just was too new at the time but yeah so I'm excited to see you all at Expo I really wish that didn't get dissolved and just go away it seemed like all of a sudden they just came out one day and said hey we're done and we're selling off every single game we've got they recently did a podcast I think it was Buffalo where they talked about that, just about why and when and how they dissolved it. Oh, yeah, yeah. I understood their reasoning when they kind of said that we didn't want people to – we didn't want to be in debt to anyone or have anyone pay all this money and then lose money and all the different things. I understand a lot of that, but it just seemed like for what was the biggest pinball tournament in pinball to just go away and not even try to save it at all? Yeah, and it was kind of breathtaking how much they had there. Pinball, arcade, they had the Super Mario Kart racing with all these kids racing on the big stage. It was an event. Yeah, but did they have any one-up arcades, the real true arcades? Yeah, I didn't see any.
    35:40
    Could have, but I didn't see any. So, Klaus, I have a question for you. Oh, you go first, Tim. Oh, no. I wanted to – I ask everyone this. You had mentioned the 80s, and I always like to ask, when did you start enjoying pinball? Did you play as a child? Is it something you did as an adult? I don't remember playing pinball at all when I was younger. I will say that when I was growing up, I remember this from when I was four or five years old. My dad had an Atari, and it was an XE. It was one that had a keyboard with it. and I remember that when I was a kid, my dad had an Atari, and we had that for years, and I went through all the Nintendos and all that kind of stuff, and I remember playing pinball maybe in the really early 90s. I was probably about 11 or 12 or something like that. I remember playing Demolition Man when it came out. I just remember some games like that. So that's probably the first time I really remember playing because I remember here in my local arcade, the pinball was kind of always stuck back in the back corner, and it was kind of smoky and dark back there. I don't know if that was just kind of intimidating to a kid. So I kind of stayed up on the video game side where all the tickets were and all the fun games and whack-a-moles and all that kind of stuff. Okay, but you went to the arcade? Yeah, yeah. Did you have your collar up really high and walk around like you were a badass? No. I could see you leaning on the arcade Hey I'm Kaz No I was probably not that good I remember I guess in the early 90's When Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat And all that came out And it was just lines of people waiting to play that And you kind of stuck your quarter up there I'm next And I'd get beat immediately I wasn't the greatest at arcades It was always fun I guess you don't have to be the best No, I would get destroyed in arcade games. That's why I stuck to pinball. So how did you get into pinball? Well, that's what I was going to say kind of got me into pinball is that when me and my wife got a newer home about five years ago, I had this huge basement, and we didn't have a basement at our old house. And we had this huge basement here, and I was thinking, wow, I could get something here in the basement, a pool table or something like that. And I started looking on Facebook, Marketplace, or Craigslist, wherever it was, and I found a Nintendo cabinet. It was a PlayChoice 10, and that's what I remember playing when I was a little kid. It was a place called Value City, and I don't think that – I don't even know if they have Value City anymore. But I remember when I was probably seven or eight, I remember they had a PlayChoice 10, and they had a Punch-Out, and they were at that Value City when you came in the front door. and I remember my mom would just give me a couple quarters and she'd say hey you know play here for a few minutes I'm going over here shopping and of course I guess we wouldn't do that with our kids these days but I remember that you know my mom would give me like a dollar and I'd sit there and that play choice was just so cool it had all the games on there and I guess I saw that on Craigslist or Facebook marketplace and I said man I want to get one of those so I found a mint condition play choice 10 but it was in like new jersey and i said wow that's a long drive and i asked my dad he had a truck and he's like hey i'll go up there with you so i went all the way to new jersey to get a play choice 10 it was like i think it's a thousand dollars but it's mint and i still have it right here haven't sold it that's what got me into pinball but what happened was i started getting a few more games so i was like oh i started finding oh you can buy arcade games you can buy pinball wow this is this is really cool so i started wanting to get a few games that i had from when i was a kid you know played at the arcade like i wanted the terminator 2 arcade game with the guns that shook and all that and i found a guy that had one about two hours from me he's like yeah man 500 bucks come get it and it was in perfect shape 500 well here's the thing when i went to his house this guy all he had was pinball and he was selling that terminator for like his friend and he's like oh have you ever seen pinball recently i'm like no he's like come down in my basement and he had wizard of oz and um i can't remember how whatever that's the one that stands out but he had all these modern you know more modern sterns and tron and and i think it was right when the lcds were coming out but he had all that ghostbusters and all that like wow and i'm like well how much does one of these pinball machines cost because you know i'm coming up there to get that $500 Terminator arcade. He's like, oh, it's about $7,000 or something. I'm like, what? $7,000?
    40:25
    And then he was working on like a Jurassic Park, the Data East version. And I'm like, wow, well, how much is this Jurassic Park? How much is one of those? And I think it was like, he's like, oh, it'll be $2,500. I'm like, what? You're crazy. $2,500?
    40:38
    That's five times more than this Terminator. And I just kind of, I guess, didn't realize the cost of things. But that's what kind of got me in. So I started getting a little bit more into pinball. I'm like, man, I want to get a pinball machine. And I found some locally, and I got a Star Wars Episode I. That was just the closest game I could find to me. And I had no knowledge of the game, never even played it before. And that's kind of what hooked me. That's the first pinball machine I bought. Cool. I bought a baby Pac-Man after that. I was going to say, and you stayed with pinball after owning a Star Wars Episode I. It wasn't bad. And I tell you, this is a side topic. But Pinball 2000, if they could have continued that, I think Pinball would have been really, really cool in the 2000s with that technology. I wish they didn't just shut it down right after that game. There was a lot of innovation in that Pinball 2000 with the screen. It had internet connectivity on there. It had a computer built in. It could update the games. There's a lot of things that they did on that game that they're doing now. That was 1999. Just before its time. Basically. but yeah that's what kind of got me into pinball i started getting a few more here and there and kind of working my way up to get some games and you know of course prices started to get higher and higher and higher and they've gone up so much more in the last four or five years since i got into the to pinball and honestly i'll be honest with you i'm almost priced out of things i can't afford these new games they're crazy prices 10 grand i'd be all over a 2500 day to East Jurassic Park right now. And you can still find some deals. That's kind of the thing too. Deals are still out there, but they're just getting fewer and far between. And the thing is, there's so many people out there just they're hunting for the deals that as soon as you see one, they've already contacted them. It's cutthroat. Yeah, the machines are expensive. I agree. I actually, I'm down to six. So I got rid of three. so well you've got some better games too though you can kind of sell one or two then you buy the better one and you can kind of move up in your collection and that's what i did too you know of course not everybody can start with buying all jersey jack le's you know you kind of work your way up to that and then one day you get to a point where you're like i've got thirty thousand dollars with the pinball machines in my basement yeah i'm like you i started with an avatar because it was the closest game to me stern avatar which is not a bad game nope nope so how did you get into operating what made you decide to just take your games and put them on location well the thing about is i had some of these games in my basement and we weren't really playing them that much or all the time i was like well you know why don't you put your games out somewhere like when we go play at places why can't you put your game somewhere nobody's got any here in town so i started asking around i went down to the bowling alley and i went down to the this bar and this brewery and here and there and I finally found a place that wanted to put some games out there so nice but like I said my small city doesn't have any games and I thought well hey if I could put a few games out you know not that I'm gonna bring anyone else into pinball but you know it could be somebody that comes into it because they saw one there first but just my way of giving back to the hobby you know I'm not a big tournament player I'm not you know but that was my my way of giving back it's all about spreading the joy of pinball at the end of the day it sounds a little cheesy to say that you that I'm spreading my love of pinball, but that's what it is. Yeah, and I don't think that's cheesy at all because I think when you're passionate about a hobby or a sport or whatever it is that you're into, I think it's just really natural for you to want to share that with other people and get other people into it. Part of the reason why I'm doing my Women's Lady Slip Wisconsin. Well, it's one of those things, too. They're like, well, hey, if no one else will do it, hey, well, why don't you go do it? All right, I'll go do it. And I think, too, though, you mentioned the cost of the machines these days, and that's kind of why I've focused mainly on having those pros out on location. They seem to be the most reliable, less things to go bad. But I kind of looked at it, and I said, well, gosh, I've got all this money sitting down here in my basement. And when the brewery had called me back about wanting some games, and that's what really made me put them up there, I said, well, I can take these games, put them at the brewery. I can go play them whenever I want to. it's only a few miles away if they make some money great and as long as they're getting taken care of which i go up there and clean them up and maintain them and make sure they're not getting damaged which which they haven't been then i'm not really going to lose any money on them i mean the market right now is hot i don't think i'll really lose any money on these games as long as nothing catastrophic happens to them so right and like you said before you making maybe a little bit of profit there where you able to go ahead and get that UV kit upgrade or buy a different little mod or something for the game Fun Yeah And you know I not making you know, I'm not making tons of money on it or anything like that. I'm not saying that. I'm not money though to like, but to make that kind of upgrade or like put a cool mod in there. Yeah. I think I checked my stranger things the other day. Like I said, I think it had a lifetime earnings. I think it was, it was like $2,000 or something like that. So great. That's great. So, That's not bad. It's made me some money. It's sitting over there, and it still looks brand new. It still looks pristine. They get taken care of well. I was kind of worried about that. Some guys were like, well, if you put them out at some bar, somebody's going to just break the glass, or they're going to smash stuff. So far there, they've been taken care of. The only thing I do is just go clean the glass off, and it's hardly ever anything to do to them. that's great yeah i would be nervous if i was an owner and having games on location as well for all of those same reasons uh they're expensive uh toys and you don't want anybody to break them well i said i've only got a few so it's easier to you know to keep three or four in in good condition you know i don't have a gigantic network of games like some of tim's friends that have games in five or six different cities all over the place that's when you start getting into really, really hard to keep up with. For sure. Yeah, that's when you hire somebody. True, true. But one of my buddies here around this area, he's actually in Martinsville, Virginia, and he has a place called Uptown Pinball. And you asked me what got me into pinball, and I will say that I should have mentioned going to his place kind of got me into pinball too because he operates that free play arcade, and at the time I think he was $10 to get in, and you could stay all day. and he had pinball and arcade and driving games and anything you could think of and I think that's kind of what rejuvenated my love of playing games and pinball and that he had them all there and I just kind of thought you know wow I want a game at home this is going to be great but like I said he he has since kind of changed his collection around and changed things because he's more of a I guess you call it more of a family fun center almost in that he doesn't really get a lot of true pinball people in there. He gets a lot more of just the casual scene. So he kind of sold a lot of his A-list games and just has a lot of other random collection of games right now. I like a random collection of games. It's like finding a little treasure trove, almost. Oh, yeah. It's a game you're not normally going to see at the main bar nowadays. All they have is every single new stern there is, and he doesn't have any new sterns. He has all these old 80s and 90s Valley and Williams and Data East games. You see some games you don't normally get to see out on location. So I really do like that. Fun. I love it. If I could, I would love to have my own arcade. It's just that I don't personally have the time and money right now. And being a dad, I've got three kids here at home. So I just don't have the time to do that right now. But that could be a thing in the future. I would love to do it. What would you name your arcade? hmm coscade you know the place you i used to go to when i was a little kid it was called pocket change and i just remember that nice that was a funny name yeah i don't know i never really thought about a name i really did i looked all into it i went to the city i met with the vice mayor and he was a younger guy he was like in his in his late 20s and um and he actually i met him up there at uptown pinball that's why i talked to him about it and i said hey i want to do one of these places in Danville. He's like, yeah, just come see me and we'll come talk. I went and talked to all the people at the city offices and was looking into things and permits and how it was going to be. But it just got to be almost, it's too overwhelming. I already have a full-time job and a family. It just isn't the right time for me to try to open that. So that's what led me just to put a few games out there on location. You're also a pinball correspondent and other things too. So maybe in 10 years, I really hope that you're able to fulfill that dream. I would love to do that. That would be a really cool thing to maybe own an arcade. That would be really nice.
    49:42
    I think that's all our dreams. You have an arcade in your basement, so. Yeah, right. We all have an arcade in our basement or in our back room or wherever, in our kitchen for some people. All right, Kaz, you've talked a couple of times tonight about TPN. Could you maybe tell us how you got involved in TPN and how you evolved into a TPN correspondent? Oh, yeah, sure. Now, I guess I'd have to go back to the beginning is when I originally got with Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb when they were doing Special and Lit. And that's when they were looking for the correspondents for the Special and Lit show. And I got on as the American pinball correspondent for Special and Lit. And during that time, that's when I went to Expo 2019, and that's when we had all the Meet the Media and the giant group of podcasters and streamers and met everybody in the industry there. And I also got to go over to American Pinball and tour their older facility and meet the team there, which was a really, really cool experience. And while I was there, Todd Tuckey was there filming his video right after I got there. So I got to meet the whole crew with them and hang out at American Pinball. So it was a fun time. Oh, nice. The infamous Todd Tucky videos. I enjoy those. It was kind of funny. I could go back on YouTube and watch it. Like, hey, that's me. I'm there in the background.
    51:07
    But, yeah, it was fun doing that with Special and Lit. And then as Ken and Bill were ending their show and beginning to form TPN, That's when I was kind of asked, did everyone want to still do their correspondent segments? And, you know, anybody that wanted to keep doing it, we were going to be a correspondent on the pinball show on TPN. So we just kind of moved over and then we were going to be working with Zach and Dennis and Ken. It was going to be that three man team of the podcast is how it originally started. So that I just kind of rolled over into TPN and went with that. You didn't know the Straight Down the Middle guys beforehand? I met them at Expo and hung out with them then and had a message with Zach and them. Yeah, I was a really big fan of Straight Down the Middle. They're definitely a great duo, and it just was something that we were – we didn't know that we were going to be involved with TPN until right before it really got started. Okay, yeah, I was just curious how you got involved from the start. But how about American Pinball? Did they just need somebody to be a correspondent for American Pinball, or was there a connection there? Yeah, that's right. It was back when I was doing Special Unlit, and Ken was looking for correspondents, and he had it on his podcast. Hey, if anybody wants to be a correspondent and kind of do some news for us and cover a company, just let us know. So I reached out to Ken, and he said, hey, can you do American Pinball? And of course I didn't want to say no. So I said, sure. Didn't really know what I was getting into, but I really enjoy doing it and kind of have conversations with the guys there at American Pinball. Just do a little short segment every week on the pinball show, which is some latest happenings at American Pinball. Okay. And you've also done some interviews on some of the other TPN shows, correct? We've had some shows as the correspondents. We had one show with I think it was all six of us did a show. and then I was just recently on the midweek show with Craig Bobby. We had a discussion with American Pinball and also just talked pinball for about an hour and a half. It was just a fun conversation, just all things pinball. Cool. Any future plans outside of being a correspondent with TPN? Well, I enjoy just doing that little small segment. It's nice to kind of have a small part in TPN. So I really just enjoy doing that. I could do something else in the future. I mean, who knows? I mean maybe we'll do some streaming, do some more podcasts. I'm not sure. I'm open for it. All right. So here's the real question. Does it hurt your feelings when Zach complains about the correspondence? No, it doesn't. I don't mean him and Dennis. It's just they want to pick on us. They want to give us a hard time. But I just enjoy doing it. It's nice to kind of just be that little bit of a – kind of like a little journalist, a reporter where we can just report on news. and I can have that 30-second to one-minute segment with just the news. It kind of just helps me be a little small part of the show. Awesome, awesome. And anyways, Dr. John takes kind of the brunt of the joke. Yeah, Dr. John. That's what we were talking about with Craig Bobby. I said, there's so many people that have nicknames in pinball and your Twitch handle or your pin side name. And so Dr. John, I'm like, is Dr. John, I was asking him, are you really a doctor or are you just saying that? He's like, no, I'm really a doctor. I'm like, oh. I just found that shocking that he really was a doctor. Yeah, I actually didn't know that either until he was on one of the poor men. They have a Zoom session for the tribe sometimes. And he got on there and was talking all this medical terminology. And I'm like, oh, he's a real doctor. Yeah. No, I just thought it sounds so silly. But, you know, just so many people have names, and it just says, you know, pinball doctor. And he's a doctor too. So everybody that says they're a doctor. Yep. Dr. Pin's a doctor, so. A lot of doctors at pinball. Yep. Yep. Not me. Nope. Not me either. I wish I had some doctor money.
    55:06
    Hey, I just get stuck with a Dr. Pepper is about all I get. Yeah. Same here. All right. All right. Well, that's a cool story. Thanks, Kaz. Oh, sure.
    55:16
    I do have a really tough question for you if you're ready. Uh-oh. If you want something difficult to answer, go ahead. How did you make it into the child?
    55:27
    I can't say. You're not allowed to release the info on the fifth pillar. That's because nobody knows what it is. Actually, the running joke I used with Drew is that I paid him like $100 to get on there. And then somebody else got mad. They're like, what? You paid $100? I had to pay $200.
    55:46
    No, I don't know. I was fans of the show for quite a long time, and it didn't matter to me if I wasn't a tribe member. but a lot of times they were having all these different inductions and I'm like man I've listened to the show like every single show I think I said maybe they'll have me on one of these so I never heard my name and I was like it doesn't matter I just I still love listening to the show and then one day Drew messaged me he's like hey man we really appreciate you listening to all our shows and he said we're going to have you on a tribe member and I'm like oh wow it's kind of pretty cool why do you like the poor man's pinball podcast you talked a little bit about that Yeah, it's like you guys, you definitely put the POS in the podcast.
    56:28
    We do or Ian and Drew do, I don't know. Well, it's gotten so big that it's two podcasts now. That's crazy. Yeah, it is kind of unreal. What got me into the podcast with Ian and Drew many years ago, I really didn't know what I was getting into on any podcast. I only listened to just a very select few. but the first time I heard them it was I think it maybe was their first episode or I don't know if I didn't hear them until their second episode but I saw something about it on pin side and and just listen to it and and what I liked about it is that it was just two guys basically you know two best friends just talking pinball and it wasn't all about you know the newest game or the tournament scene or whatever it was it was just two guys talking like they were just sitting in the basement talking about pinball and that's what i really liked about it it was genuine it was real and it was fun i think that you nailed the or you hit the nail right on the head by saying that it's about two best friends because i think that's something that really comes true in their show is that they are just two buddies hanging out having a beer shooting the breeze about whatever's going on on pinball or what's going on their personal life and i think it's just interesting fascinating they're fun oh yeah absolutely you can't you can't fake that camaraderie you can't fake that that's genuine and that's not not to compare you know ian and drew but i used to what also i watched was the straight down the middle videos with zach and greg years ago and they had the similar chemistry and i found that that chemistry between them they they were genuine and you had the two friends talking about pinball and i said that's what got me into with ian and drew is that it was just it just was so genuine and real and that they didn't care if they weren't the best or they didn't care if they you know got every single bit of the news right or whatever they were just having fun and that's that's what i liked about them the most and that's what pinball really should be about is about having fun yes pinball is about the people yes yes because like i mentioned i went to the shows i've been to a couple different shows and i hardly ever played pinball at the shows it's just hanging out with people i can't wait to hug people. I'm a side hugger. I don't know if I should announce that to the public because that might be some crazy people coming up to me and, hey, maybe that's Rachel. I'm going to go hug her. Oh, wait, I have my free hugs t-shirt on. Never mind. Anyway, that's really about everything that I have. All right. Well, I agree. It's all about the people. That's what I'm enjoying more than anything. I've had a lot of other hobbies and, you know, I really love this one and I love the people. but I think that was we're going to wrap this up Kaz I appreciate you coming on as always Rachel I appreciate you pinball is definitely better than my solitaire community I used to play with that Windows solitaire yep oh Kaz a lot better such a gracious my nieces and nephews we were at the beach a couple months ago and they're like they had cards they don't like to play cards I'm like they're like Kaz play cards with us I'm like alright let's play solitaire they're like oh yeah let's all play solitaire I'm like that's not how solitaire works pinball is more fun with pals well i should say as the word solitaire you know pinball is not a it is a sport or hobby that you can do solo but this is a hobby that is much more enjoyed when you can be a part of the tribe and a part of a group of people that you just have fun with that's the best thing about pinball the people absolutely thank you that's a perfect way to end the show. Thanks, Kaz. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. I'm going to look forward to all the other episodes. Are you going to go to every single tribe member? We're going to try. Rachel said we're going to do it. Well, you know, the coin has triple digits, so I guess they assume that it's at least 100 people that want to be in the tribe. I'm shooting for 40.
    60:25
    We'll see. We're going to try. All right. Thanks, Kaz. We appreciate it. Thank you. Take care.