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DPX Interview with Melvin Williams

Cary Hardy·video·47m 49s·analyzed·May 2, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Melvin Williams updates Alice production status, tariff strategy, and post-Expo code improvements.

Summary

Melvin Williams discusses DPX's role as a separate-but-connected R&D and design division of Dutch Pinball, detailing Alice in Wonderland's development journey from Expo delays to current production (50-60 units shipping weekly, 100-150 parts on hand, targeting 500 units by year-end 2025). He addresses supply chain challenges (Chinese New Year parts delays, cabinet centering issues), tariff impacts on US shipping strategy, code updates post-Expo (mini-playfield modes, audio enhancements, wizard mode expansion), and provides transparency on production timelines, refund policies, and future DPX title positioning while emphasizing Alice's aesthetic and mechanical differentiation in the market.

Key Claims

  • DPX is a separate brand from Dutch Pinball, with DPX focused on limited runs (max 500 units) while Dutch Pinball handles manufacturing and distribution

    high confidence · Melvin explicitly explains: 'DPX was there to tell the world that everything that comes out of this company is limited to a maximum of 500 units... DPX is really a brand next to Dutch Pinball.'

  • Alice production was delayed 2-3 months due to Chinese New Year parts delays (missing ball guide) and cabinet centering issues affecting first 20-25 units

    high confidence · Melvin details: 'We always said January or February... We had a part problem coming in from China. It was Chinese New Year... three to four weeks longer just to get one ball guide... cabinets were a little bit off-centered so the lock bar didn't fit really well.'

  • Current production rate is approximately 10 games per week (40-50 per month), with 50-60 games shipping in the next batch

    high confidence · 'I think we're now 10 games a week, so it's 40 games a month... We're shipping a larger batch now because of the delay of the cabinets... I think there are now building 50 or 60 games already.'

  • Tariff impact on Alice US pricing is approximately $800 additional cost, with strategy to focus on European orders first while monitoring tariff changes

    high confidence · 'I think the end price of Alice now in the US is maybe 800 bucks more, I believe... we still have 200 orders for europe and the rest of the world let's focus on building these games first.'

  • Alice code is approximately 90-92% complete with wizard mode fully playable, but Melvin does not view 1.0 as final and expects ongoing updates

    high confidence · '0.9, 9.2, 9.3, I think already. But I don't see a 1.0 code as a final. It can always be a 1.2 or 1.4.'

  • DPX's next title is mechanically and functionally complete but may receive aesthetic tweaks in coming months before announcement

    medium confidence · 'My next game, I'm working on the next game... from a technical standpoint, the next game is pretty much finished... by the end of the year, we will get much closer to my next game.'

Notable Quotes

  • “DPX is really a brand next to Dutch Pinball... So they had their own lineup... we had the Lebowski game that just finished the end of its production life and they swapped over now to Alice.”

    Melvin Williams@ 2:43 — Clarifies the structural separation between DPX and Dutch Pinball that community often conflates

  • “I didn't want to scratch the paint... so we decided to just... take them out of the box and threw away the cabinets and we had to wait for new cabinets.”

    Melvin Williams@ 11:05 — Demonstrates commitment to quality over speed despite production pressure; signals willingness to absorb costs for correct manufacturing

  • “I want the game to be correct not good... you pay a lot of money for the game and I wanted that it comes how it was designed and not because of time pressure.”

    Melvin Williams@ 14:27 — Core design philosophy articulation; explains reasoning behind delays and quality control measures

  • “I always said from day one, I will leave the audio folders and animations open. So if you want to have a nice rock band doing its thing, put it in there.”

    Melvin Williams@ 19:22 — Indicates openness to community modding and customization; contrasts with some manufacturers' locked code approach

  • “When I launched Alice to the market, I think I already proved to the whole industry that there's more to life than flat plastics... I see manufacturers now start to copy the things we did.”

    Melvin Williams@ 31:24 — Claims market differentiation and aesthetic leadership; suggests competitive positioning relative to other manufacturers

Entities

Melvin WilliamspersonBarry DriessenpersonCary HardypersonDPXcompanyDutch PinballcompanyAlice in Wonderlandgame

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: DPX offering open audio/animation folder access for player customization; commitment to code updates for 'years to come' based on feedback; willingness to iterate on gameplay based on player input

    high · Melvin: 'I always said from day one, I will leave the audio folders and animations open... Rules-wise... I tend to listen... when it's linear, I try to take a little bit of parts. And where I can update the code, we will always support it'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: DPX positioning next title as mechanically/functionally complete but subject to aesthetic tweaks through end of 2025; planned announcement and release timeline dependent on Alice production completion

    medium · Melvin: 'My next game... from a technical standpoint, the next game is pretty much finished... by the end of the year, we will get much closer to my next game... when the end of Alice is in sight... we'll probably hear something about the next dpx title'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Refund guarantee if Alice not delivered by January 1, 2026; customers with tariff price concerns can cancel orders by year-end without penalty if tariffs remain elevated; distributor holds funds/contracts, not DPX directly

    high · Melvin: 'If we cannot have your game delivered by the first of january 2026 you will get your a refund back... If you don't want to pay this even if it's 10 or whatever wait just wait a little bit more... the customer has a contract with the distributor'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Melvin positions DPX aesthetic detail level (sculpts, lighting, themed elements) as market differentiator; claims competitors now copying Alice's comprehensive feature set; plans to maintain lit side rails as DPX trademark across future titles

    medium · Melvin: 'I already proved to the whole industry that there's more to life than flat plastics... I see manufacturers now start to copy the things we did... The amount of detail I put in Alice, there's no manufacturer in the world right now that puts that amount of detail in'

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.143

0:00
Off we go. I'm Alice. so what's up guys and welcome back to the channel where i talk and do everything pinball so if If that sounds interesting to you, then hit the subscribe button down below. And I'm here with Melvin Williams with DPX. How's it going? Thanks for having me. Doing pretty good, man. Obviously, we've got a lot of questions for you, and curiosity is on everyone's mind when it comes to what is going on over there in the Netherlands and what you're working on and how things are going with Alice. So we're going to be getting into that, obviously. But I think there's people out there that still don't really know who you are, what like and so i would kind of ask you you know give us a brief history about you know coming into dpx or developing dpx and kind of like you know what exactly is it that you're doing over there kind of thing okay that's fine my name is wilbur williams i have a brief history you know i bought some uh lockers from the j-pop and there was a foam core stuff in there from alice in wonderland speed it up fast, I went to Barry. Barry is the CEO of Dutch Pinball. I told him about my plans about maybe bringing this game to life and some other titles that I had in mind. Fast forward eight, nine months, Alice came to life and we started DPX. DPX was there to tell the world that everything that comes out of this company is limited to a maximum of 500 units. It doesn't mean that every title DPX brings out is 500 units. It also can maybe on the next title be, I don't know, 300, 400, whatever. We wanted to have new thoughts on pinball. And if you look at Alice right now with all the sculpts that we are now familiar with. So DPX is really a brand next to Dutch Pinball. So Barry is the CEO of Dutch Pinball. They have their own lineup. So they had the Lebowski game that just finished the end of its production life and they swapped over now to Alice and they are doing their next cornerstone and then probably DPX will also do another title. Or they will run together or they will run separate depending on the timelines. And in DPX, I am the head of design, engineering, and also help Dutch Pinball itself and engineering when they need help. So a lot of stuff is together, but also separate. So you're like basically R&D for like other games. And then once you develop the game and it shoots and it works, then you hand it off to Dutch for them to manufacture. Yes, yes. I will do everything from start to finish. We're a small company, so Barry helps me sometimes, and we have other people inside the company that help us. And when a game is ready to be launched, like Alice, I hand it over to Dutch Pinball. They will do the whole manufacturing. So they will take the orderings. They will order the parts, build the games, send it out to distributors. And I will be the one that just, when they started building Alice, I will look in the assembly line if it's built to spec. and then I hand it off to Barry, and he will get it to the finish line. Okay. So that's always the question that's on people's mind, is that they think that DPX and Dutch are one and the same, and so if there's any kind of questions in regards to Lebowski or an upcoming title, then they look to you as being the person that's going to be answering for essentially what Barry should be answering for kind of thing. So I think there's definitely that separation that needs to be a little more well-known to people right there, Because even some of the questions that I received were questions that should be going towards Barry kind of thing.

Early Lebowski adopters received first purchase rights for Alice as a homage, but DPX will not repeat this for future titles

high confidence · 'Every early achiever on the Lebowski got a spot early for Alice. It was like homage, like a thank you... But I don't think we can pull this off for the next.'

  • Barry Driessen (Dutch Pinball CEO) remains confident in meeting the 500-unit production goal by end of 2025 based on current trajectory

    medium confidence · 'Barry Stills believes that he can finish all 500 games before the end of the year... I think that's because we're already building now 50 to 60 games... we're going in the right direction.'

    • “The amount of detail I put in Alice, there's no manufacturer in the world right now that puts that amount of detail in.”

    Melvin Williams@ 32:03 — Strong claim about competitive differentiation; confidence in aesthetic design as core differentiator

  • “If we reach the end of the line and you waited and cannot deliver that game for that price and we're coming to the end of the year you have a right to cancel because we cannot deliver the game.”

    Melvin Williams@ 29:36 — Explicitly states refund/cancellation policy for customers waiting on tariff resolution; addresses customer concerns about price lock

  • “I always said that the next game from Dutch if it's on par in the line from release with my game I will always push my game back to give them all the space they need.”

    Melvin Williams@ 27:45 — Indicates prioritization of Dutch Pinball's next title over DPX timeline; shows collaborative structure

    • The Big Lebowski
    game
    Keith Elwinperson
    Back to the Futuregame
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Pinsideorganization
    Dutch Pinball Museumorganization
    Renzperson
  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Current production capacity: 10 games/week (~40-50/month); parts on hand sufficient for 100-150 machines; 50-60 units shipping in next batch after cabinet delay resolution; vacations and variable production expected to affect monthly output

    high · Melvin: 'I think we're now 10 games a week, so it's 40 games a month... I think we can make 100, 150 machines at this moment... We're shipping a larger batch now because of the delay of the cabinets... some months is going to be less, some months is maybe going to be more'

  • ?

    business_signal: Melvin seeks to clarify structural separation between DPX (R&D/design) and Dutch Pinball (manufacturing/distribution) due to community confusion; questions about Lebowski or Dutch next title should go to Barry, not Melvin

    high · Melvin: 'DPX and Dutch are one and the same... If it's questions for certain titles, which are Dutch Pinball related, it's best to ask them to Barry. And if it's really DPX related, then ask him to me... I will try to leave those things separate'

  • $

    market_signal: Tariff implementation adds approximately $800 USD to Alice pricing; DPX considering group-buy international shipping approach to manage costs; strategy to prioritize European orders first while monitoring tariff policy changes

    high · Melvin: 'I think the end price of Alice now in the US is maybe 800 bucks more... we still have 200 orders for europe and the rest of the world let's focus on building these games first... maybe in two months the tariffs are gone'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Alice production delayed 2-3 months from planned January start to March due to Chinese New Year parts shortage and cabinet centering issues

    high · Melvin: 'We always said January or February... We had a part problem coming in from China. It was Chinese New Year... three to four weeks longer just to get one ball guide... we had 20 25 games in a box built we took them out of the box and threw away the cabinets and we had to wait for new cabinets'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Alice wizard mode fully playable from factory state; code at ~90-92% completion with ongoing enhancement expected; mini-playfield receiving mode expansions post-Expo to address gameplay depth concerns

    high · Melvin: 'The wizard mode is fully extended it's playable from the first time you take it out of the box... 0.9, 9.2, 9.3, I think already... we added three more modes to give a little bit more playability on that mini play field'

  • ?

    product_concern: Melvin Williams demonstrates strong quality-first approach: rejected 20-25 completed cabinets due to minor paint scratching risk from lock bar misalignment; explicitly prioritizes correctness over speed despite production deadlines

    high · Melvin: 'I didn't want to scratch the paint... so we decided to just... threw away the cabinets and we had to wait for new cabinets... I want the game to be correct not good... you pay a lot of money for the game'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: European pinball cabinet suppliers have limited capacity and no alternative sources; single manufacturer failure creates bottlenecks impossible to resolve in short timeframes

    high · Cary Hardy: 'In europe the most super small in a way from manufacturing... if one manufacturer fails to deliver at that point you don't have somebody else you can go to... Building the pinball cabinets is a different story... In the U.S. it's a little bit easier because there are more manufacturers'

    • 4:43
    Yeah, I know it's a bit confusing at times, but let me say it like this. If it's questions for certain titles, which are Dutch Pinball related, it's best to ask them to Barry. And if it's really DPX related, then ask him to me. I will still be around, but I'll try to leave those things separate. okay so let's let's dive into talking about alice and i think it was like unanimous that the first reveal the trailer for the game was probably a very low light probably the worst portion of your game but once people got to play it at expo that's where the heads began to turn towards more positive towards the game kind of thing and now we've actually just as of in a few weeks ago seeing a much better stream of the gameplay via the Dutch Pinball Museum. But I'm kind of curious of like, you know, what type of development has gone into the game since we first saw it at the end of Q24 to what we just saw from the Dutch Pinball Museum? So the games that were at Expo were already, I think, 99% finalized, you know, from what people saw over there people were amazed by the aesthetics for the the details in the sculpts and everything we try to put into the game so the things we added because the games work tremendously well on the expo but we found some small stuff in regards to i added one switch so in the back is a diverter and sometimes when you're playing multi-ball or there's something going on there's a tendency that a ball can be trapped in that diverter so what i did i added one switch so in normal gameplay if that switch get triggered for more than a second it will open it up and just flush it out so you will never even know there was a ball stuck somewhere so as soon as we get back from uh chicago i added that to the game i listened to the feedback people wanted more playability on the mini play field we had one mode the naval hearts you're being accused of stealing the tarts and uh you're going up to the mini play field to uh battle some guards and just escape from the uh from the throne room that was the only mode that was in there so now we added three more modes to give a little bit more playability on that mini play field so if you do a secret skill shot and you get a million you get you plunge it it goes up to the mini play field and each time you hit a target over there it just doubles up your your skill shot and then you have Paint the Roses Red, it's to advance the wizard mode from the first ball you play. You also can shoot up to the mini playfield and all the guards you defeat there will be deducted of your final wizard mode. Of course the Knave of Hearts is still there and you have a sneak in, you also go up there. So I try to use more and more of the mini playfield. That said, because I seen a lot of comments people said, oh you have to do a multi-ball with the balls up to the mini play field and with the magnets. The problem is magnets heat up pretty quickly and they don't cool down that quick. Normally a magnet is just for a simple grab and then deducts the power to hold it or do a fling. I try to do the best I can with the mini play field but as much progression and to usability of it but I also have to keep in mind that I don't burn out the game. To that extent so that's the mini play field we added some more side quests a lot of audio has been added to the game i see uh people commented on the infamous mad hatter it's not been removed all the audio from the mad hatter was completely redone by a different voice actor he still sounds the creepy voice he was but then with better quality the meme is still hidden in there so if you shoot it a couple of times through the jackpot you will probably hear that other call out alice now has a voice um i know you play as alice but i wanted also her to have a little bit of a voice so she says two things so when you plunge the ball she says off we go that's on the first ball and then when you're in let's say a mode it's the caterpillar you have to answer him and he asks you who are you with the shots and then the final shots you will say i am alice we added some uh the wizard mode is fully extended it's playable from the first time you take it out of the box so i tried to add a lot of new light shows and a lot of new stuff i will try to see what feedback we get over the months to come when the games hit their homes with people so yeah i think we upgraded a lot of stuff since Expo. So if people already enjoyed it, I think they're going to enjoy it much more. So when you talk about months, I mean, it was stated by you later at the end of quarter 24 that you were going to start building these games January and you have a plan to make all 500 of these throughout the year. And we technically didn't have them start getting built from our perspective at least until, what, March? Yes, correct. So it's a three-month delay there. I'm kind of curious of what kind of details that you can divulge on the three-month delay. Well, it's not really three months. We always said January or February. So let's say it's two months. So the first thing we had is we had a part problem coming in from China. It was Chinese New Year, and they forgot one part. So it took about three to four weeks longer just to get one ball guide. So we couldn't finish one play field whatsoever.
    10:32
    So that was the first delay. And then we now are building games. And we had a small setback two weeks ago. Not many people will notice this because this only affects, I think, the first 20 to 25 people in the Netherlands. and it was that we had a problem that when the games were built and we put the lock bar on we found out that the cabinet was a little bit off-centered so the lock bar didn't fit really well and I didn't want to scratch you know to paint on the yeah on the powder coating so we decided to just so we had 20 25 games in a box built we took them out of the box and threw away the cabinets and we had to wait for new cabinets but in that meantime we also start continue building all the play fields so what's going to happen upcoming week is we are not shipping 20 games we're going to ship 50 to 60 games because we already have so many play fields ready to go but we have to wait for the cabinets And also, it means that I hope in the next two to four weeks, games will start shipping also to the US. Do you feel that you still going to make the goal of all the games being made before the end of the year The thing is is that on some occasions I don have the definitive answer because Barry is responsible for the production line of Alice
    12:08
    I'm not always in the factory because I normally work from home. I do a lot of the prototyping and everything I need to do, I can do beautifully from home. And if I need to show something, I go to the factory. but how I see it now and the progression it is Barry Stills believes that he can finish all 500 games before the end of the year and I think that's because we're already building now 50 to 60 games I believe so we're going in the right direction so yeah I think we're still gonna make that 500 games all right that's it that's a that's a hell of a goal because I think it was we were already Be positive. and gets them just they just that's where you can tell that um in europe the most super small uh in a way from manufacturing is that you can't just hop around and say oh i need a cabin everybody's you know they can build maybe i don't know sheds and they can build your closet but building a you know building the the pimple cabinets is a different story um so if one manufacturer fails to deliver at that point you don't have somebody else you can go to and say oh, you know what? I need 50 of these cabinets next week. It's not going to happen that way. So it's just, you know, I think in the U.S. it's a little bit easier because there are more manufacturers. So but yeah, we try to do the best we can, you know, and just moving forward. And always like now, I just try to be as transparent as possible. Sometimes I don't have the answer or I hear it at a later stage from the production line. But again, we were trying to do our best. You know, we're still a small company. We're trying to. And if I could also said you know what let's ship out the 50 games you know and then uh the lock bar scratches up the side rooms and I can't blame it on the customer or whatever you know or blame it on shipping in the end do you want your game to be good and you know you pay a lot of money for the game and I wanted that it you know comes how it was designed and not because of time pressure yeah I think so you're basically you're like I want the game to be correct not good and not good enough kind of thing you know yes exactly so i mean obviously due to all the recent changes when it comes to shipping and the tariffs and everything about getting into politics on this i'm definitely curious about you know how this has affected your ability to ship games and what has changed and what are your plans going forward in regards to the terror situation so when we heard the tariffs we knew it can become a problem and I was talking to Barry and Renz he's part of the team and we were thinking okay what is the best way to move forward you know do we wait it out but what happens at certain points and we're like you know what let's just be transparent and we all know without like you say going to politics that stuff can change overnight so our idea was like you know what we still have 200 orders for europe and the rest of the world let's focus on building these games first so to get the production line going you know get the money in and just get everything going as it is and then maybe in two months the tariffs are gone and then we can still ship the games and then as you've seen a week later they said oh you know what we got to take it down to 10 so i said you know what to the distributors if you have customers who really want the game now and they can't wait. Put them on a list. I'm not going to ship out five games. I'm going to ship out 25 or 30 games because we're flying them in. And just, we do a group and we ship it out to the US. But keep in mind that at that stage, it was 20%. So keep in mind, if you overpay 20% and next month the tariffs are gone, you have a machine that you paid over 20% off. So it's always hard to, but we had to do something. And now with tariffs going up, Will they stay at the 10% we have now? Will they go up? I don't know. At this stage, it doesn't change that much into effect that I think the end price of Alice now in the US is maybe 800 bucks more, I believe. Don't hold me to it, but I hope it comes down again because I'm on the same level as everybody. Making pinball is hard. We still got to make money. Taking a hit from our side, it's just not doable. We want to stay in business. So yeah, I hope everything changed for the better, But we are still focused on not letting the tariffs hit us and hit the customers, and we just keep continuing, and we'll see what happens.
    17:07
    So you're basically taking care of the customers currently in your area, your region right now, and trying to see if things perform better when it comes to tariffs, and then you can start shipping to America. Unless you have those out there that are willing to pay extra, they don't care, and you get at least five of them, and then they can ship them out. And the problem is, you know, people said, oh, yeah, but if I have number 490 and I was on this and this list and I pay more and I said, well, it doesn't really work that way. I also tell the distributor, you know, you know, your customers, you know, who's in the beginning of the line. You should start there. You know what I mean? You can go to number 490 and say, I got your game early because I overpaid and because that's not how it should work. You know, it's just terrorists are there and it's a problem. And I don't want that other people with, I don't know, more financial money or whatever can have a benefit of it. So but I have to work a little bit because when I said we're not shipping games to the U.S., we have people saying, oh, no, it takes forever. It's never right, nor it's wrong. So I have to do something. I'm going to try to slide in some questions here and there from the public here because they were aware this interview was going to happen. and so let's start out with this one right here i think you've already kind of answered it a little bit but this one is from someone on pin side named drained will they listen to the owners and players on adjusting the code slash music slash call outs during the whole run of alice and beyond the main music track is nice but after three balls it is sleepy then toss multiple player balls on top of that i am getting nervous i feel owners will have lots of critiques code wise based on the current code as a future owner of alice will it get the same attention to code that the big lebowski received over the years i have not heard many people complain about the audio about the main track they thought it was magical and it fit the theme well i personally enjoyed it and like the most recent stream with dutch pinball museum with the game i couldn't even watch it i just had my earbud in i was able to listen and that's what i complimented to you on i was like dude the audio sounds great. So me personally, I don't have a problem with the audio. Well, that's the good part, is that I always said from day one, I will leave the audio folders and animations open. So if you want to, I don't know, have a nice rock band doing its thing, put it in there.
    19:34
    Rules-wise, there's a limit because you have modes and all the stuff you do, but I tend to listen. The more games hit the market, I can't listen to everybody. I cannot please everybody because everybody wants something else. But when it's linear, I try to take a little bit of parts. And where I can update the code, we will always support it. I'm not going to promise that in 10 years' time we'll still support it. That's not what I'm saying. But for the years to come, I will do my best with the abilities we have to listen to feedback and to update the code where necessary. All right. This one's from Robert Campbell. I guess this is a multi-question right here. One, are deposits being held by Cointaker or DPX? If it comes to refunds, who delivers funds back? From CT to customers or DPX to customers, this will hinge on answer to question one. So I'm guessing let's answer that one first. Yeah, sure. It's super simple. You buy a game from a distributor. There's where you send the money to. distributor sends us the money when they order the games so if something happens you will need to contact your distributor uh because if you're if we are going to say no you can contact us it's going to be a mess you know you bought from a distributor then contact your distributor if you have any issues regarding service money whatsoever um but again we're super transparent and that's why we said if we cannot have your game delivered by the first of january 2026 you will get your a refund back you can call up your distributor and probably your distributor will call us and say hey we need to be one deducted up the next thing coming in and we'll be deducted it's that easy but in the end the customer has a contract with the distributor and so the second one is with the global supply chain issues how many machines do you currently have parts for two machines are in the USA, how many have been built currently, or how many have been built in weekly production estimates? So that's the second question, basically. How many parts do you currently have the ability to make for machines? I think we can make 100, 150 machines at this moment. So we always talk about somewhere around the 100 to 200 mark. I think we're now 10 games a week, so it's 40 games a month coming up on the next month. So like I said, I think there are now building 50 or 60 games already. We're shipping a larger batch now because of the delay of the cabinets. We also have vacation time coming up, so some months is going to be less, some months is maybe going to be more. It's always a little bit of a discussion how much and when. All I can say is we do our best. If we can crank out 100 games a month, we will. There's no choice for us to hold games back because it will hurt us in the long run. So it's not our intention to build slow. So question number three is, current completion of code percentage-wise, if you had to put a percentage on it? 0.9, 9.2, 9.3, I think already. But I don't see a 1.0 code as a final.
    22:48
    It can always be a 1.2 or 1.4. But from a game perspective, with the wizard mode, everything in there, music, I think it's around 0.9, 9.2. And his fourth question, will they offer first rights to second title to early adopters that follow through with Alice Purchase? Go ahead and answer this, you little rat bastard.
    23:09
    Okay, this is a question that's a little bit hard because, like I said, I don't know exactly still what the intention is for the numbers on my next game. It can be lower than 500. And let's say if I now drop it down to 400, right? I can't even deliver all the people who bought on Alice the next game. and also maybe I have to give other people also a chance. So I think maybe for the future sake, it's, it's more like, Hey, it's, you know, it's orderable. Maybe this time I have to do a little bit quicker and say listen next week on this time this game comes out or it orderable at that stage And I think then everybody who wants to order can order Because I think that, you know, maybe some people who have Alice and doesn't like the next game, they can leave a spot open for somebody else, you know, and maybe somebody who missed the mark on Alice now wants that game. So I think as much as I would like to honor everybody and I am very grateful for everybody who bought an Alice. But I think I also have to leave a little bit of room open for new people in the hobby and other people. So I think I will leave it open for now and see what the future holds. I'm kind of curious about when it comes. I'm wondering if that question correlates so much to DPX games, but also to Dutch games like future titles from them. Is there any kind of crossover from the first adopters of Alice? and like you said if Dutch comes out with their next title would they be able to I guess be first in on that game and that's something that you know you may not even be able to answer but I'm just kind of curious if you can no I don't because I think that's because of Dutch being separate to DPX in that way what I did with Alice is to you know because I know Lebowski was the first game from Dutch and it had a little bit of a history that's where we came up with that every early achiever on the Lebowski got a spot early for Alice. It was like homage, like a thank you, you know, for all the things happened. But I don't think we can pull this off for the next. And I think I don't think there's anything DPX related to the next title for DP itself. I don't think it makes any sense to cross that over. All right. So this question right here is something that, again, you may not even be able to answer because it seems like it's directed more towards barry but we're going to go ahead and we're going to let sterling get his word in here he says i would really like to ask what their plans are for the next title i'm sure he's not going to want to talk about any of that though i would it would seem like if tariffs are making it so hard for them why would they not want to team up with stern question mark i feel like this company is just shooting their self in the foot stern clearly has too large of a facility and is hungry to build more games is he really so stubborn that he wants to build back to the future that he would put the company at risk over it i feel like they could just be kicking back and counting money so there's a bunch of information right there to say what you want to on that yeah i can't relate to any any title i have no comment to whatsoever um i think that but this question I think is more related to the Dutch Pinball division than DPX, I believe, or is this also to my next game, or is it, so this is a little bit of a Yeah, no, it seems like it's a bit of both because it says your next game, and then it's Oh, my next, alright. So yeah, on the whole DP part, I cannot answer anything about it because it's, that's up to Barry. My next game, I'm working on the next game, everybody knows that, it's in good active development. I think from a technical standpoint, the next game is pretty much finished. Of course, all I can say now is that our focus now for Dutch Pinball Manufacturing is to complete the Alice. And I think by the end of the year, we will get much closer to my next game. I won't say a release date, but all I can say is that when the end of Alice is in sight, and we're coming to the end of the year and everything goes as it goes we'll probably hear something about the next dpx title coming out okay so like is it going to be like an interlaced like back and forth between dutch and dpx releases or like do we know well i always said and i still feel this way you know me joining with barry to to to create dpx i always said that the next game from from dutch if it's on par in the line from release with my game i will always push my game back to give them you know all the space they need but we also created a second line for the second building so if you really wanted to we could build parallel and dutch pinball game and a dpx game if for some matter uh maybe a dutch pinball games get delayed we can push forward with my game that i designed on the DPX platform and vice versa, or we can run them as we go. That's the beauty of to have to switch in between everything we can do. All right, so this is one from Bev, and I think we mentioned this earlier when it talks about tariffs, but I want to make sure they get their word in here. Also, what about the tariffs policy with regard to deposits? I'm seeing a 1K being added to the invoices for those who want their machines now. What's going to happen to those who don't want to pay more whenever their number is called. I didn't sign up for a 13.5K machine or higher whenever the tariffs go back to 20%. I fully, fully understand this. And again, it's also not something we wanted to do. It's not something your distributor wanted to do because in the end, I think everybody gets hurt here. We get hit with negative comments. the distributor gets hit with customers complaining and the customer itself now also has got to pay more money. This is why I wanted to be the first one in the world to say, let's put out something in the world to say, listen, we got to stop this now, put US on hold to see if the tariffs go away. What happens if the tariffs doesn't go away? In the end, it's simple, but also not. If we reach the end of the line and you waited and cannot deliver that game for that price and we're coming to the end of the year you have a right to cancel because we cannot deliver the game and it has nothing to do with with the price are you willing to wait the whole thing out and bet on it to get your money you have to work you know it works both ways i do not have a definitive answer for this all i can say is we all feel the same you know and we try to work our best to get everything sorted so i think all i can say if you don't want to pay this even if it's 10 or whatever wait just wait a little bit more maybe in in four months you will thank me he said oh yeah i waited now everything's back to normal here we go i don't know i'm you know i'm not in politics so i can answer i think there's definitely just a lot in the air so it's hard to nail down you know the exact like plan because yeah and changed basically on a daily basis kind of thing but uh when talking about you know manufacturing on this portion of the this or here i'm curious about because we just had a couple of games get released and we know that you know one's big massive title from jersey jack it's official harry potter is about to be released and i'm curious because you just mentioned that you know your next game is essentially done but like from a manufacturing and designer standpoint do when these games get revealed and you watch how they play and you see what they are putting into their games how does that affect you like on a mental level like do you start questioning that maybe we should change things or we should add this or we should take this out on what other manufacturers are doing So I think when I launched Alice to the market, I think I already proved to the whole industry that there's more to life than flat plastics.
    31:34
    And I think we, I believe we were one of the first who just offered a game with everything in it, no options available whatsoever. And my only goal was to sharpen, you know, to make sure the awareness in other manufacturers that they maybe can step up their game a little bit. and now with some new releases just been released, I see that manufacturers now start to copy the things we did. I see it as a good thing.
    32:03
    Also, I can say is that the amount of detail I put in Alice, there's no manufacturer in the world right now that puts that amount of detail in. And I know that on every release we are going to do, I will try to step it up more and more and more. Also, from an aesthetic point of view, You know, it's more an extra to it. So, of course, every game that gets released these days, I will look at and think, oh, that's good. Maybe this can do better. And when I talk about that my game is done, it's done from a technical perspective. So from, let's say, a flipping whitewood, it came to a point that the game is mechanically and functional at its final stage. That doesn't mean that I cannot change in the last few weeks or months to come, change some accents or details inside the game that makes it more, you know, more innovative and it looks more like a world under glass. So I always keep an eye out to everything that's going on in the pinball industry. I also know what I liked about the Alice game. I know what people loved about it. So like the lit up side rails we have, I will try to continue all those like a trademark on all our next games from DPX. I will try to use them all with the patented and trademarked side rails. I will try to do my best, all the things people already love from the DPX standpoint to put in there and always, you know, experience with new levels of designs. I also do believe that boutique pinball companies are a little bit more forgiving in doing extraordinary things.
    33:51
    And when you are one of the bigger companies, I think you have to be a little bit more careful what you do. And that's why they cannot maybe always pick up the same level that the boutique companies do. But I think a lot of change since Alice was released from a static point. because if people start doing what you did, I think people, you know, there's, and then you only can go up from there. So I will always be on my best to, yeah, bring in new things to the game. So is it more like, you know, you're wanting to just self-improve from your previous game, or is it, you know, you're striving to be better than the rest? And I'm guessing that's manufacturer to manufacturer. Like me personally, I lean towards every manufacturer just trying to improve upon what they've already done. Yes, that's correct. I think in pinball these days, everything has been done already so many times. Like I said, when I done Alice, I was like, OK, you know, everybody has this. What can I do to up it up a little bit? And that's why we created that world under glass with all the sculpts and the high details and with the lighting systems and the sculpted toppers. I'm just you know, I think those are things that you can really improve in a static point of view, not only for myself, but also for the industry. I do it because if I can put it in there, why can't it be for the bigger manufacturers? They bring out, you know, they have money to bring out the biggest license in the world. And if I can do it with something, they can even put it, you know, they have all the good people around them. They have so much money so they can really bring more to pinball. It's good for everybody. yeah so like when it comes to talking about patents i mean i'm curious about this when it comes to developing a game and you have an idea for something let's just say the the lit up side rails is that something that you have to like personally like look up to make sure that you're legally able to do something like that or how does that work yeah the thing well the the problem is is there always a lot of things that look the same might be the same but it not really the same you know what i mean and a lot of stuff uh you know going through trademarks and patents is a lot of work you know i own certain patents and i uh you know i just had some new patents for the like like i said with the side rails and with the I have some new stuff for the aprons with with screens and everything in there. And there's also a difference between Europe and US we have a US lawyer for everything over there. And then we have a European lawyer for here and we have another lawyer that does everything for outside. So it's the thing was in the beginning when I started things I always said to people you know what I don't I don't need it to be trademarked nor paid in it. But because I like when everybody starts using them. But if they start using it in a wrong way and telling people that they did something new and I'm like, OK, but that's not why I did it. And also when people say, oh, that's something you really should keep on your next games. And I was like, you know what? I got to protect this and move forward. But it's always trademarked patents. It's always. Yeah, it's not fun to deal with. And so like from a standpoint of like doing like, you know, patents after that's already been done, but just licensing in general, like, you know, so your Alice property, that's basically, you know, open to where anybody could use it. We've seen that even just with the Wonderland Amusements, they're doing their own little Alice in Wonderland type of thing. And so when it comes to the difference between dealing with licensed property and an app property like Alice, I mean, what are the challenges between both of those? And which one is basically your preference to do kind of thing?
    37:40
    So I never released a game with a license. I do have one game in the works that is a license that was not really given to us or to me. It was more like an homage and they asked me, is it possible you could maybe do something with this game? To be honest, from an art-wise perspective, because if you do a licensed theme, you have access sometimes to to animations to uh or video or audio or artwork and when you're working with non-licensed you have to create everything from scratch but in the end i think i like non-licensed much more because you can do whatever you want to do with it if you want to color alice or her i don't know purple pink whatever you do it because it's yours but yeah non-licensed also can be challenging also from a sales perspective and if you're a small company you're betting on something you know if you do like a harry potter you can sell 500 games with your ice clothes it can be the shittiest game in the world and you will sell 500 games when i released alice i always said if i could sell 100 games i will be i would be proud we sold 500 we still have people on the list um you know i was thrilled and up to today i'm very humble and i i love everybody who bought alice and i hope the experience in a good way for them but yeah non-licensed i think i like better it's like on one hand you're like you've got that's the chicken you use but on the other hand you've got to be like under somebody else's thumb whereas yeah create everything from scratch but you can do what you want kind of thing you don't need approval so i get it there's a balance of like which which evil do you prefer kind of thing you know if you want to sell go for a license but you know if you want to sell again it's it's really really hard so from like the manufacturing of alice and how it's going i mean what are some of the challenges that you've came across that you haven't mentioned that you've definitely like learned from and being like oh well this is gonna be a lot easier on our next title kind of Of course, you know, when we done Alice with the side rails, you know, we had to cut out a piece in the cabinet itself. So we and also with the we were the first ones who did the real printed on mirrors with the artwork. That's also something I want to take as we go with our next games. But there's all learning curves, you know, when they start building them. How is the best way to assemble it? And I think the only major complaint I hear in the factory, and they're still screaming for it, is because we do so much sculpts, and there's not just flat plastic you can cram down. Oh, good, good to go. No. These are, even though we made them from material, you know, so they won't break that easy or damage, you still have to be very careful putting these sculpts in. And that's the main problem, I think, with ours. so like i think that was one of the assumptions of why there was a delay with alice is that it was all the leor sculpts and evidently during the manufacturing process they were breaking like i said this is all speculation because i do remember you stating that the leor sculpts are very robust and that they've taken many balls there's no issue with that so i found that little counter yeah that's that's not true no because um on the expo we had um the games with and without protectors no issues whatsoever we brought them to the dpo show and then later on i think they went to some other shows i think some went to australia no issues whatsoever so the sculpts are not a problem they're really not um it was the ball guide we're missing on one and now the cabinet with the scratching of the side rails we try to take care of but that's from a manufacturing standpoint i think that was the only thing that was a real issue in a little bit time delay of making a play field. Just out of curiosity, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you kind of wish I would ask you that you would like to comment or answer upon things that you've heard from the public or anything?
    41:58
    No, not really. I think we touch base on most of the things. Like I said, we're always trying to be transparent, so if there's any questions, we're always here to answer them, and if there's a reason that there's, let's say, a delay or something, we do it for the better. It's not that we're Because there's a problem somewhere, you know and these days and it's not only us But if there's a late for whatsoever you read it in every article that you know websites, right? It's like oh Alice's delayed for another month or this or that and they don't even know why it's delayed or If something breaks down on a other manufacturers game or something is up there's like oh this is delayed or this is not right And you know, it's it's trust me if if there's a little delay, it's for the better And it's not because the game is not engineered right. Well, sometimes it is. It can happen. And then we have to re-engineer it. This delays, no. There weren't any issues. But we're always trying to be transparent. So if there's any issues, we will always be open about it. Same with the terrorists. We were the first in the world. Because I know everybody wanted to say something and they were waiting. We were the first to come out. And we'll always try to be transparent as possible.
    43:09
    Do you know if we got any more streams coming from like Dutch Pinball Museum in regards to Alice? Yes, I believe so. I think they asked me to do a stream with them probably next week or something. That would be good. So you can answer all the questions in chat. Yeah, and I can go through all the rule sets and all that stuff. They just have a better streaming rig than I do. I'll just go there. We'll do a little bit of streaming. I think for the upcoming weeks and months, there's more games coming out. There's a lot more streaming going on. All right. I think people that are waiting on their games, some of them are probably like they don't want to see anything because they just want to experience it for the first time, but others out there need something to nibble on to kind of like hold them over until they finally get their game. So at least they had the option out there like, hey, here's a stream if you want to see the progress that we've done with the code or the changes that we've made. It's always, you know, it's always, I always tell people, of course, you play the game yourself and get familiar with the shots. A lot of people say, oh, this shot is not working or this is not good. And it's sometimes you just have to find the shots. I know there's some shots on Alice that are tight. And then I have people say, oh, this shot doesn't work. And then I have to really record a video, say, you mean like this? And it goes like this and this. And he said, oh, okay. And then two days later, somebody texted me and said, oh, I got the shot right. I know now where it's on the flipper bat. And I said, yeah, there are some shots in there that are a little bit tight. But you have to get familiar with the game itself. Some games look great on stream. Some games aren't. Also, the player can be good. And you know how it goes. I'm curious, maybe in the future we could start getting some video updates like on Facebook or whatever, like you just walking through the line just showing Alice's being in the works people like to see a little bit behind the scenes just seeing the games being built, it's kind of cool to see that kind of thing I think there was, I think they did a tour about a week ago a week and a half ago by a guy named Roy Wills he did a factory tour and now you can see all the playfields lined up I think there were 20, 25 play fields and all the cabinets on the line. So I think we do from time to time these things. But I will tell to the factory to put a little bit of updates on the Facebook page so everybody can experience a little bit more of what's going on behind the scenes. Yeah, it's not much. Just a picture of like, hey, here's all these back glasses. Hey, here's all these play fields and post it up on Facebook. Yeah, yeah, especially from the main game, right? Yeah, people like to see stuff. Like, give them a little something that you wanted. It didn't take that much. I'll talk to Barry like Barry take a damn picture Facebook takes five minutes
    45:46
    Yeah, I mean we're creeping up on the one-hour mark right here Melvin I just wanted to see if there's anything else that you know, we need to mention or talk about I think we touch base and everything. I the only thing I can say is that for the mod community, you know, I done with stumbler I did a the board set so people can hook on their um moss they wanted the topper for alice also there's some kind of a addition with the electric playground didn't they develop something for alice as well yeah they've done something for alice that's coming out pretty soon um they came up to me uh at one point asked me if i wanted to collaborate with bringing art in all that stuff so sure you know um and also with the the board set that we had and launched with Alice, with Stumbler. We are now in a phase that we are expanding that board set, and we will probably release the new board set with the game coming out. So there's even more to mod for people who want to mod. Keep it going. All right. Hell yeah, man. I guess we'll just put a bow on this. Thank you very much for your time, Melvin, and giving everybody the information that they're starving for right now. Hopefully we eased some minds out there and people got something to chew on until the next update can come along. Perfect. Well, thank you for having me, and have a great day. Off we go.
    47:18
    I'm Alice. Thank you.