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Episode 33 - Die on this Hill: A Nightmare on Elm Street

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·54m 0s·analyzed·Jun 3, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Ian Matheson defends Nightmare on Elm Street as excellent gateway game despite poor critical reception.

Summary

Ian Matheson of Propeller Arcade defends the 1994 Gottlieb Nightmare on Elm Street pinball machine on the "Die on this Hill" segment, arguing it excels as a gateway game for new players despite low critical rankings. He emphasizes strong theme integration, immediate player feedback through accessible multiball mechanics, and its role in converting casual players into pinball enthusiasts at his arcade.

Key Claims

  • Nightmare on Elm Street is ranked #244 out of 290 machines on Pinside's Top 100 list of solid state machines

    high confidence · Alan states this ranking explicitly as context for the episode

  • The game was designed by Bill Parker and Ray Tanzer for Gottlieb Premier in 1994

    high confidence · Alan provides detailed designer and manufacturer information in episode introduction

  • Nightmare on Elm Street functions as an effective onboarding tool that converts casual players into regular pinball enthusiasts

    high confidence · Ian describes multiple instances at Propeller Arcade where new players came back repeatedly after their first experience and became regulars

  • The game features accessible design elements like one-button skill shots and immediate multiball rewards that create positive player feedback loops

    high confidence · Ian details the boiler room skill shot mechanic and how the game 'immediately transforms' after successful skill shots

  • Nightmare on Elm Street 4 was the highest-grossing film in the franchise

    medium confidence · Alan mentions this fact during discussion of the film series preparation; stated casually without citation

  • Gottlieb typically avoided ultra-violent or sexually risqué themes compared to Bally in the pinball era

    medium confidence · Alan's historical observation about Gottlieb's brand positioning in 90s pinball market

  • The Freddy Krueger glove toy on the game is poorly constructed and deteriorates quickly due to steel ball impacts on thin plastic

    high confidence · Ian acknowledges this as 'the definition of a design flaw' during discussion

  • West Craven's New Nightmare released in 1994, same year as the pinball machine, kept franchise licensing valuable during that period

    medium confidence · Ian references the film release date as context for why Gottlieb could license the property

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm gonna get a freddy freddy is my grail game like that is my grail game”

    Ian Matheson @ early in segment — Establishes Ian's personal connection to the game as a childhood memory and long-term collecting goal

  • “I put freddy right there with pac-man Because once you put them in an arcade, even if you don't give a shit about arcades or pinball, you know who Pac-Man is.”

    Ian Matheson @ mid-segment — Compares Freddy Krueger's iconic status to one of gaming's most recognizable characters

  • “without that important first step you might not have that future player”

    Ian Matheson @ mid-segment — Core thesis: Nightmare on Elm Street's value lies in converting new players into pinball fans

  • “It's boring, repetitive, and feels cheap.”

    sesh pilot (review) @ review reading section — Representative critical complaint about gameplay depth and production quality

  • “If their heart's into it, then they're doing it not because they want to make a quick buck off of it, because they're doing it because they love to do it.”

    Ian Matheson @ discussion of Spooky Pinball remaking the game — Expresses Ian's values regarding authentic IP adaptation in pinball design

  • “that carnival aspect of a pinball machine what's that game gonna do before you even press the start button to make you stop dead in your tracks”

    Ian Matheson @ mid-segment — Defines Ian's philosophy on what makes pinball engaging for new audiences

  • “yeah he is terrifying dude”

    Ian Matheson @ film discussion section — Ian's appreciation for Robert Englund's portrayal in Nightmare on Elm Street 2

  • “I don't think it's a great pinball machine”

    Alan (host) @ introduction to review section — Host's honest position on the game establishes he's not dismissing the game unfairly

Entities

Ian MathesonpersonAlanpersonNightmare on Elm Street (pinball)gameGottlieb PremiercompanyBill ParkerpersonRay TanzerpersonRobert EnglandpersonPropeller ArcadecompanyWedgehead Pinball BarcompanySpooky Pinball

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Die on this Hill segment successfully identifies niche passionate fanbases for critically panned games; reveals hidden collector/player communities underrepresented in online reviews

    high · Episode format explicitly designed to surface defenders of poorly-ranked games; Nightmare on Elm Street generated 3+ volunteer defenders before Ian was selected

  • ?

    community_signal: Nightmare on Elm Street garnered enthusiastic audience response when Ian appeared on the show; multiple listeners emailed wanting to defend the game, indicating hidden passionate fanbase

    high · Alan notes receiving three people messaging him in grocery store parking lot plus multiple emails from fans wanting to defend Freddy; Alan had to turn people away due to Ian already being booked

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Gottlieb's 1994 licensing of mature horror IP (Nightmare on Elm Street) was atypical for manufacturer brand positioning; represents strategic shift toward licensed franchises with higher audience appeal

    medium · Alan notes Gottlieb historically avoided ultra-violence and risqué themes compared to Bally; this licensing represents departure from typical Gottlieb approach

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball games with strong theme integration and accessible mechanics can function as effective gateway drugs to the hobby despite weak gameplay depth; questions whether 'great games' and 'accessible games' are different design targets

    high · Ian's core argument is that Nightmare on Elm Street converted non-players into pinball regulars through immediate gratification and theme appeal, suggesting alternative value proposition than competitive/strategic depth

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.162

0:00
You signed your real name? Of course I did. If you believe in something, you sign your name to it. Alright, I'm gonna tell you right now. I ain't crazy.
0:08
This is the ground you'll die on. Are you sure? Oh my god, are you serious? Son, people can see you. I don't tell you what to do with your money. Don't fucking tell me what to do with mine, okay? I'm not as dumb as you think I am. I will defend myself. He means it, sweetheart. Well, that's because you're an idiot. I will fight and win because I am the most intelligent. You sure about that? I got something I want to say. A lot of you motherfuckers think you know who Teddy Powers is. Well, I'm here today to tell you all you don't know shit. Oh, I give up. You're going to get yourself killed, and this time I won't be able to save you. I make you laugh. I'm a clown. I amuse you. I'm here to fucking amuse you. Come on, don't bullshit me. Go ahead and go, but I'm not going to stop yelling, because then that'll mean I lost the fight. So, please leave a T under the mat. I love y'all very much. Peace out.
1:10
Serenity now! Serenity now! What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Okay, a simple wrong would have done just fine, but this makes no sense.
1:41
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. my name is alan i'm the host of the wedgehead pinball podcast one half owner of the portland pinball bar wedgehead of which the podcast is named we're having another fun segment that we call on this show die on this hill we have another episode and this week we're joined by ian matheson of propeller arcade how you doing ian and what are you here to defend i'm doing great man i'm super stoked to die on this hill there's gonna be a lot of people that are excited for me to die because I'm going to defend Freddy and Nightmare on Elm Street, and I can't wait. Oh, yeah. This is a good one. Nightmare on Elm Street, I think we specifically called out in another episode as a game that somebody should come on the show to defend, and I got a couple of emails, actually, after I... You were the first one that messaged me. It was like, oh, I love Freddy, dude. I got to do Freddy. And then I had multiple emails, and I had to tell the people, like, hey, I'm sorry. I already got somebody on the hook for Freddy. So despite this game being lowly rated, there are people that love it and love it a lot. So I hope you do that justice.

  • “The games love to throw multi-balls at you. And to your player that is very decent, half good, and is experienced in pinball, you're like, well, geez, they're just giving you everything.”

    Ian Matheson @ gameplay mechanics discussion — Acknowledges criticism while defending the design choice as beneficial for new players

    • company
    Wes Cravenperson
    Kevin Yagerperson
    Renny Harlinperson
    Pinsideorganization

    licensing_signal: 1994 timing of Nightmare on Elm Street pinball coincided with West Craven's New Nightmare theatrical release, suggesting Gottlieb capitalized on franchise momentum during licensing window

    medium · Ian notes New Nightmare released 1994, same year as pinball game, keeping franchise licensing value high and relevant to pop culture zeitgeist

  • ?

    product_strategy: Modern playfield manufacturing (scopes vs. ramps, plexiglass vs. plastic) could address Nightmare on Elm Street's durability issues while maintaining the original design intent

    medium · Alan and Ian discuss how fragile plastic glove and boiler room mechanics would be implemented with modern materials; suggests the game's flaws are manufacturing-era-specific rather than fundamental design problems

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Low Pinside ranking (#244/290) does not reflect localized community enthusiasm when machine is in active play; gap between online critical consensus and field experience suggests review metrics may undervalue gateway/casual appeal

    high · Ian's experience at Propeller Arcade contradicts negative reviews; multiple new players became regulars and asked when Freddy was returning after removal

    • 2:49
    Yeah, you know what? And I love those people. I don't know who you are. I didn't even know you existed, to be completely honest. But I hope I do it justice, speaking for all you guys. I remember when that episode aired, I didn't listen to it right away, but my phone was going off and I was driving. I was like, what the hell's going on? And it was like three people being like, yo, man, they're dissing Freddy. and I was like who what the fuck and they're like wedgehead and I was like oh what I was in a grocery store parking lot with a mouthful of food just like cooking behind that steering wheel and I was and it was like you know a 10 it was like 10 seconds of the podcast but I was like no no no so here we are yeah am I prepared I don't know but we're gonna find out this is the fun part of the segment is uh for those if this is your first episode listening the die on the hill segment is something where we take a game that is generally considered bad, quote unquote, by the overall online pinball community. I find bad reviews, but then I find someone who unironically loves that game. So they usually have a very strong reaction because when you love something and other people are like, it's bad, you have a strong reaction. So we try to get those people on the show, lead their case for some of these lesser loved games. It's basically a showcase to show that there is an audience for every pinball machine and there are people that love every game, whether or not you like it. And it's just a good chance to have some fun and kind of flip. There's so much so common to just shit on games in the pinball community, but it's a lot harder to defend a game that is constantly shit on. So I like getting people on the show, putting them on the spot and having them defend it. Nightmare on Elm Street, for those that don't know, it's a pinball machine manufactured by Gottlieb when it was Gottlieb Premier in the 90s. It's one of the infamous System 3 Gottlieb games, which have the pointy boy flippers, as I like to call them. It was based on a series of classic horror movies featuring the iconic Freddy Krueger, as played by Robert England. It was designed by the team of Bill Parker, who did games like Big Hurt, which we have on the floor at Wedgehead right now, Rescue 911, Street Fighter 2, and Barbed Wire, which was the last game that Gottlieb ever produced. as well as Ray Tanzer, who designed many other games for Gottlieb starting in the late 80s until Gottlieb folded in 96. Some notable designs of his being Stargate, Waterworld, Wipeout, Teed Off, Operation Thunder, Hoops, and Bonebusters. Ray then went to work for Sega and later Stern Pinball as a mechanical engineer on games like X-Files, Simpsons Pinball Party, Terminator three and pirates of the caribbean i think he still works there to this day he has some title like vp of special projects or something uh but kind of legend of the pinball industry does a lot of work on the mechanical side of things and honestly i think we're probably going to end up talking about bill parker ray tanzer a lot more in the future as almost all those games i just mentioned probably qualify under die on this hill guidelines there's a lot of fun to be had in that list don't get me wrong but they're those are all pretty commonly slammed games by pinheads for whatever reason freddy is currently ranked number 244 out of 290 machines on the pin side top 100 list uh best solid states machines of all time but if you're listening to this episode and want to defend any one of the games i mentioned above just shoot an email to wedgeheadinfo at gmail.com we'll set something up for a future episode but i just want to give you the floor ian tell us why freddie's rad all right there's gonna be a whole different ian than there was on the last episode and i can feel it coming right now yeah um so it's like this stretches beyond like i'm gonna defend this from the perspective of somebody that's not even necessarily fully into into pinball like i am on denial i own a fucking arcade but this game is like one of the first pinball machines i remember seeing and interacting with like it's a very faint memory and it's because freddy was a huge part of my childhood crazy thing to say but um i was like a video store kid and i had no limitations you know well within reason like one of the first like vhs tapes i ever remember owning was like nightmare on elm street 4 freddy huge part of my childhood huge part of propeller arcade um there's a bit of freddy aesthetic in there you'll find him plastered everywhere so that definitely doesn't help when it comes you love the theme you love the theme you described it to me as you like alligators i like freddy krueger like that's you're like freddy is to propeller what alligators are to wedgehead So for the listener out there, that's what you had told me. Yeah, 100%. It was just a crazy thing to say about a child murderer. So that's, yeah, your business mascot is an alligator. Yeah, well, mine is, mine was a convicted child murderer in a movie.
    8:02
    Like, it's, man, I don't know. I love this game. It's, when I first got into pinball and I, the idea of owning my own pinball machine seemed impossible because you know like they were more expensive than arcades uh like i'd mentioned in the last episode and they were just harder to find uh in a working condition i guess yeah um and ever since that day i remember saying to all my friends any one of my friends that i inadvertently hooked into becoming a pinhead um was like you know what one day i'm gonna get a freddy freddy is my grail game like that is my grail game i'd look up how much they'd be going for and i at that point in my life i was like i could never fathom being able to figure that out you know lo and behold now everything's skyrocketed totally to me that game is a perfect embodiment of the character and series and it it translates that very well from the second you press start you're just in the vibe and the feeling of that series the music in it is amazing the sound effects are amazing even without pressing a button you look under glass and you're like this is a boiler room like this is a dreamscape to me it's it's it is a wicked little world under glass you have a giant freddy hand that's obviously a glove and if it hasn't been properly modded it's destroyed to shit yeah the one on the ramp there it's sort of i'm not gonna defend that well it's cool like it it's cool but it wasn't built to to last no no not at all that's that's the definition of a design flaw yeah um it was you know steel ball meets thin plastic pieces it's just you know that's a battle of time yeah it would always be missing two of the claws so it's just like freddie giving you a little peace sign and but like certain things like that the head itself to me it's always like you know i've been like roadshow whatever man i'm like there's a giant talking freddie head that burps and vomits your ball and equips you and just chirps you throughout the game so it's like you have freddy staring back at you that head is insane that's just like a giant sculpted freddy head with like you know led flashing eyes and rubber soles below it like that's yeah made specifically that's not a repeated part that is a gate that is a part that will work only in this game and always only in this game yeah it's got a little boiler room on the play field that you can shoot the ball into and like you're saying it has this sort of like membrane fleshy because in the mood in the series of movies like freddy's capturing killing kids in their dreams and then he collects their souls so they become like you can see like little they're like little heads like he'll lift up his shirt in the movies and he'll have like moving living heads of some of the kids he's killed right and so they have that on the game right below his head on the game and it's like a yeah like a membrane kind of soft vinyl to represent that i do i will agree that like the theme integration is great to me as a for pinball that's a big first step because if you're you know as a fan damn man you got me by the balls and i'm there to figure it out and like whether or not like i do want to say i know that this is not a great pinball machine in the world of pinball it's not like i haven't accidentally discovered another you know something like it's not like i just stopped that freddie and was like why go any yeah this is the pinnacle of pinball yeah no like i i get it i understand it's you know what i mean it's not like you know i discovered like in terms of like the automobile automobile world like you discover a geo and you're like geez it doesn't get any better than this and like i get it it's not about that it's i love it personally and the reason why I became confident enough to want to go on and do this is because I heard it from a ton of other people when I put it in the bar at the arcade. A lot of them were people that became league players and stuff that had no idea loved it but they're just playing it for what it is and that experience to them is amazing and now I look back on it and I'm like Jesus it's this kind of game uh like i had mentioned previously that hooked that player into wanting to discover all the other games around it and you do that by immediately rewarding somebody and letting them know that their action had a reaction and it's taking them a step further and that happens a lot on premiere games like instant multi-ball like you can do it blindfolded for christ's sake like The games love to throw multi-balls at you. And to your player that is very decent, half good, and is experienced in pinball, you're like, well, geez, they're just giving you everything. And it's like, cool, not everybody is a pinball expert. Society has put pinball to a different section than what it used to be. So when someone goes up and they plunge immediately and the ball hits the boiler room door, because that is the skill shot it just the boiler room flashing and the door goes up and the door goes down And behind it is a big hole that happens to appear in multiple premier games A big hole in the play field that the ball goes into. Yeah, hard to miss, right? Hard to miss. Hard to miss, yeah. Even if you miss it on the first one, you're like, oh, okay. So that player then sinks the ball in the second one. One of the easiest skill shots in pinball. yeah immediately the game transforms now freddie takes over the music starts pumping you hear freddie say like you know let's rock and roll and he vomits a ball out of his head and the other ball gets kicked at the shooter lane and you're like holy shit so the game's immediately just throwing you into it right right and regardless if it lasts 10 seconds or you know 10 minutes of play that person just learned a very valuable lesson in pinball and that it's there is a game here and it's not just about keeping that ball alive with not really understanding the effects that it's having their reaction caused a reaction they have to try to do that again and how much further can they take it what do i have to do to make that tiny glove come to life because i know it does what do i have to do to make these claws pop out of the play field below the flippers then all of sudden the game will change again when they lose one of their multi balls and now they're in a different world and they realize that okay so how do i get back into that world that's all it really is and to me that's a really good hook and you need that to make new pinball players those games do that and eventually they will you know maybe they'll come back and play pinball more often and they'll end up playing they'll find a twilight zone they'll find an indie they'll find a white water etc something that with a little bit more to it but without that important first step you might not have that future player so you're arguing that freddie is a great gateway game for new players okay yeah 100 a lot of people when i put it in the bar that came down and would play it they never played pinball before continuously came back and played it and that since i've taken it out they're still there playing every other game and they're you know they're people i consider friends now like i talk to them they're some of our best regulars and you know that question was up when's freddie coming back when's freddie come back and i'm like you listen to podcast there you go to me like i the writing's on the wall for that just because somebody wrote a shit review of it that has a habit of writing hundreds of reviews for everything that nobody asked for um i'm gonna take these people that are coming in here and taking that chance and basing it on their first reactions playing it you know it's their first time like it's it's that carnival aspect of a pinball machine what's that game gonna do before you even press the start button to make you stop dead in your tracks before you get to the next one you know what i mean what's the attract mode on it what's that gonna do that game does it has this boiler room flame effect on the back glass um you look in and it's just this ominous fucking freddy head jaw dropped staring at you yeah and it's just it's freddy man like every it's like i put freddy right there with pac-man Because once you put them in an arcade, even if you don't give a shit about arcades or pinball, you know who Pac-Man is. Freddy is one of those icons. That's true. What's interesting about this game is that, especially at this time, we're talking what, is it 1995, 94 this game came out? 94.
    17:02
    Yeah. Okay, so in 94, in pinball, there's not a lot of true horror themes. There's some like campy horror, you know, like maybe like you said, Bone Busters, which is sort of like a, you know, it's basically Ghostbusters that they ripped off without a license. Sure, yeah. But then they make a game like this, and it's very unusual for Gottlieb because Gottlieb was back in the day when everyone was doing kind of risque, like Bally's doing crazy like risque artwork. Gottlieb was always, you know, more professional. they tone down the sex and tone down some of the ultra violence um or they wouldn't have like the devil on their games or you know they wouldn't have demons and stuff and then they make a game that's based on a you know one of the most popular horror franchises of all time nightmare on elm street and it's it seems interesting to me i would love to know more about why they chose this license and how they got it because it seems it's shocking to me that gottlieb was the one that made this And then nowadays we have, you know, Spooky Pinball, and they started because they have a love of horror movies, and they want to make horror-themed games, and I think that's cool. I wonder if they would ever redo this, or if any other company would ever remake a Nightmare game. And if so, as you're a super fan of the franchise, like, who would you want to see remake this, if it ever got remade? Fucking anyone. Literally, yeah. I mean, I want to say spooky because clearly their hearts... Yeah, their heart would be in it. You know what I mean? So to me, right off the bat, that's the first important sign of anybody doing something right. If their heart's into it, then they're doing it not because they want to make a quick buck off of it, because they're doing it because they love to do it. So right off the bat, spooky, hands down. Like, look what they're bumping out for the genre and stuff. But yeah, no, hands down, I'd probably... Right off the bat, spooky, I guess. I wonder if they would I so I re-watched the movies the first four in preparation to talk to you because you were like oh good I love these right so I'm like I gotta all right I want to do some extra research it's been a while since I've seen them the first one's great I mean the first one's it's hard to argue that the first one's the best not the best movie probably is obviously Wes Craven you know directs it uh creates it and then I was watching two which I thoroughly enjoyed. Like, I loved too. Nightmare on Elm Street 2, I remember I saw this at the Hollywood Theater, a vintage movie palace up the street, and it was under their queer horror series. It was hosted by a local drag queen, and they showed this, and what's interesting about Nightmare on Elm Street 2 is that they flip a couple of things. One, there's no longer the last girl trope, which is common in slasher movies. So it's a young male is the lead character. And the actor at the time was closeted, but has now come out as openly gay. And there's a lot of really homoerotic undertones of this movie. Totally. which has become now you know like kind of a pillar of cult uh gay cinema and so it's fascinating to get to watch it on the screen with the local drag queen and see it and then i just got to re-watch that was probably three or four years ago and i re-watched it a couple days ago it's fun to watch the only thing you don't get in the movie is you get less kind of ready isms like he's less uh wisecracking he's less oh he's not even there yet like he's the first one he's just like kind of gunslinger like maniac i mean the second one's not my favorite freddy i love them all but it's not my favorite movie but it's my favorite freddy he's all fucking business and too yeah he is terrifying dude i think it was kevin yeager did the special effects for it and he made him look like a legitimate burn victim he's just such a son of a bitch and like all of his lines like there's even a part in it where the parents see him and even the parents freak out so you're like shit okay so there's no protection here his dialogue is in it um originally they didn't even cast robert englund as him and quickly realized that they fucked up so when he came back dude he knew it was his role and he's like he's just so ruthless the lighting on it the way that movie shot like when he pulls his like skin back off his head yeah to jesse and there's some great gags in that movie dude yeah it's shot yeah it's amazing there's an opening scene where he's climbing around and he's got they do some shadow work like an old Nosferatu it's it's just good and then I watched the third one which is Dream Warriors they're sort of teaching each other how they're all these kids that are terrorized by Freddy are in this mental institution and they're with each other and they're kind of battling Freddy in their dreams and then that brings nancy back from the first movie to help the kids and and then the fourth one which you told me was your favorite which i re-watched last night and uh and that's directed by renny harlan who did cliffhanger uh die hard 2 what was crazy about the fourth one as i was watching it last night and i'd be interested to hear your take on this but when i was watching i was like man this feels like if sam ramey did a freddie movie that's what it felt like to me just like his camera work of like what sam ramey would do of like the evil right like when he's in the woods and like moving the camera through so he does a lot of that in this movie he also has lots of like montages like a sam ramey movie of like you know like ash from evil dead would just be like putting his chainsaw hand on yeah they gotta gear up the gear up so he does a lot of those in in this movie yeah and thoroughly a blast his resurrection scene of life fucking nuts so good oh my god in the junkyard and getting put back together because spoiler alert but in the third movie they think they've killed him fourth movie obviously happened so they clearly did not but it's awesome dude there's a reason it's the highest grossing one of the series oh it was i didn't know that oh yeah it decimated everything else they never ever that was the height of it oh that's interesting well not to get too far off on the freddy you know this is a pinball podcast but i wanted to let the listeners know that like sure i'm going above and beyond doing my research i want to make sure that i can appreciate and talk to a freddy super fan about this game but i not growing up as like a super fan like you i had seen the movies but being a fan of just sort of practical effects and horror movies and cult movies in general like the theme is appealing to me and re-watching it make does make me like the game more because you're like yeah they really did the theme integration on the game is really good so it feels like a nightmare on elm street pinball machine if it were made in the 90s sure yeah and it's at that point when they did that in 1994 that licensing i feel still would have been very hot because 1994 is when west craven's new nightmare got released so you know after freddy's dead and they came out with the new when he returned and came out with a new perspective of this horror character which is a wicked movie like i love it it still would have been prime and uh so you have all everything that made freddy what he is up until that point as like a pop culture icon is packaged and stuffed into that game uh whether it be vocally or visually it's all there unfortunately the reason why you're on the show is because most people and like you heard on the show uh you know i was open i was like i don't think it's a great pinball machine but there's a lot of people on the internet it's not just me and so i'm going to read you some of these bad reviews and i just want to hear your reactions to them okay are you prepared man yeah okay yeah let's do it this first one's a little bit long let me just get through it and then i'll get your reaction to it okay do me a favor yes i know sometimes you'll come in you'll read a review and then you're like oh this is one i wrote like 10 years ago uh-huh is one of these yours no i wish it was i didn't write one 10 years ago okay good i know it see that's the thing is like i wouldn't say my personal opinion is i don't think it's a great machine and i'll tell you why later but sure yeah yeah it doesn't bother me yeah yeah i really don't like writing bad reviews to be honest i kind of like try to find the fun in everything so i always found the fun in this game but i never thought it was like great so yeah So I just never really wrote a review for it. All right. So the first one is Tony01 says, I purchased this pin on a whim at an auction. I was able to play it before auction time. The pin was playing 100% and looking excellent. So I nap it for $1,100. I thought I got it for a steal. But once I set it up and played it some more, the game got boring to me by the fourth game. I do like the movies, and that's what attracted me to it. The voiceovers at first were good, but got repetitive quickly, has a big open playfield so I set Freddy at the steepest incline, polished the playfield with furniture polish, rebuilt the flippers doing everything you get to play faster. However, making it faster didn't help. It's just a boring layout. The pin does have a good first impression with unique toys like the claw saber at the drain, the knife glove, the boiler room, and Freddy's head spinning out balls but it wears out quickly due to lack of game rules. I tried liking it but it's not for me now i know why i was able to get a really nice condition dmd game with a license for 1100 because it boring i did really like the music that the best part of the game so it sounds to me like you got a licensed dmd game for a good price because you were impulsive yeah you played it once and you bought it and then you played it four times and you didn't like it but yeah sure man he did say he likes the movies which is interesting that theme didn't carry it further for him right because i think that's the best part of the game is i do think the theme integration is the best part again everybody can have a different game of pinball yeah man that sucks i mean i'll buy it from you yeah yeah i'll take another freddy yeah man i'll fucking gatekeep all these freddys i don't care all right so i got another one i got sesh pilot says there aren't many horror pins this is definitely one of the scariest out there but it just could have been so much better. Gottlieb, I think this was actually a premiere game, was just putting out garbage at the time of this release. The good. The red play field, especially with LEDs, is pretty sweet. Nice theme, pretty cool gimmick, drop targets or rubber faces, and you get a Rudy head who is Freddy. Animations are pretty good for the time and price, but the bad is pretty much that it's just not a great game. It's boring, repetitive, and feels cheap. Pass. Update. Played another copy of this game and yep still sucks in my opinion blah i admire all the uh the pros that that they put in there for sure because they're like they are right i know it's not a deep game it's not there's not a lot to they're actually you know surprisingly for a rule sheet it's pretty confusing there's a bunch of stuff like shrubbed in there um you might not get that as easily though out of it but yeah that's i mean they that's an honest review yeah it's a pretty good one okay so the next one i have adam the gamer says i really wanted to like freddy as i'm a big fan of the movies however this game just seems sloppy and other than the fact a few good ideas and featured the familiar visuals and sounds one we hear on elm Street. This game really suffered and showed early on in my first playthrough that it wasn't a game for me. So again, another fan that was just kind of disappointed by the execution. I feel that like it's funny because the amount of stuff that's in this game, right? When you look at it, I guess for around the time that it came out, these features pretty minimal, right? As compared to like Williams games from this era. Sure, yeah. There's no Johnny Mnemonic hand. We get a little flimsy plastic glove that breaks. But by today's standards, loaded. By today's standards, dude, we're looking at a premium. There's some premium features in here. I feel like if you were playing a pro version of this today, that boiler room would be like a piece of plexiglass. Yeah, Or, yeah, it would be like a scoop in front of a piece of plexiglass. Yeah, the little up kicker that goes into the little top little plastic ramp by the glove flipper would just be like a scoop. Yeah, totally. It really wouldn't be too, too much. But I get it. Like, again, I don't want to necessarily just kind of tell people they're wrong here because I know what I'm defending. Right. And I love it for my own reasons. um it is nice to hear people in a review which i would consider like a good review point out the pros as well as the cons rather than do like kind of like a angry baby review well you will get to those those are those are further down the list i know i know you're just saving them for last so well i also think you're feeling like what they're giving you right now these early reviews are like Hey, I'm a big fan of the movies. And so you're already like, hey, he's one of me. He's a little bit misguided on the game. So you're giving them some grace right now. Yeah, dude.
    31:06
    All right. So I got Ram Thual says, Freddy, a nightmare on Elm Street sure is a nightmare. The straight down the middle drains abound. The super fast ball lock robs the game of continuous fun when the house on the upper play field eats the incoming shot, the skill shot. and the freddy face toy is neat but fairly useless don't put any money in this machine no matter how much you like the nightmare on elm street franchise well maybe just one credit because you want to see how awful a great license can be in a pin it's time to put this bad dog to sleep okay we just stepped up the hate yeah no kidding i hate that review yeah don't put any money in this machine don't put any money in this machine is crazy man like those are the like that kind of review scares me like you know yeah oh man i don't know what those people's politics are yeah that's fucked up it's like no matter how much you like the franchise don't ever try this game and he's like well just one time just to see how awful a great license can be you should try it once to show you that i'm right yeah but it's kind of crazy to like you know i Like, you know, the ball lock.
    32:25
    There's not even a lock in it, really. You know, the multi-ball robs you of any sort of fun. It's like, really, man? Because shit kind of pops off once you get it in that boiler room. That's the whole, like, shot of the game. I think the skill shot's fun. Like, I think the boiler room moving up and down is fun. And it's thematic. Oh, definitely, yeah. A lot of the things that make this game, you know, for me, to be able to defend it are thematic. Yeah, I think it's done really well. It could always be worse. Some people would deny that. Yeah, totally. All right, Shardian says, The cabinet is pretty. That's about where the good stops. I shopped out one of these for a fellow and spent a good amount of time playing it before and after the shop job. The playfield art is horrible. The rule set is atrocious. Wizard mode is a joke. The whole thing feels incredibly clunky. Of course I had to rebuild the glove blades too. The only thing I really liked about this game was the claw save. That is a neat toy that was integrated well. What's with kids today, huh? No respect.
    33:34
    Damn. Well, I think the playfield artwork rules. Yeah, I think it's not as strong as the... I agree that the cabinet is, like, incredible. Yeah, it's... I do think some of the art is good to just okay. And maybe some of the play field is just okay. Part of why I don't like this game, I think he brings up, is like, I do think the rules are just... Yeah, the Krugerrands and stuff like that. Yeah. Again, it's fun to play a couple games on. It does play a little bit long. It gives you easy multi-balls, which is what you brought up. As a more seasoned player, yeah, that... And I hate the Gottlieb flippers from this time, the pointy flippers. Yeah, those chunky ones, yeah. Well, it's funny because, like, I've never, like, ever been able to get this thing to play long. Really? The one that I have, yeah, it's an ass kicker for sure. Like, it's notorious for it. Oh, that's interesting. We've had a lot of quick games. I had Grand Champ on it, which I defended until I accidentally wiped it when I put it in a bar up on the stake.
    34:46
    And I was like, I never was able to get it back at all. But again, like you said, the rules and stuff like that, I'm not going to defend them. There's a lot stuffed into there, and it's very hard to explain to some people. like you know especially where I started off by saying that it's important for games like that because they can hook that person and make them a pinhead and you know come in and maybe they'll grow past it and they'll look back on it and be like yeah I don't like this game anymore but it got them where they needed to go to kind of experience it all for those simple toys and everything it does have a weird rule sheet the basic rule sheet I think is very simple you're just working your way up your nightmares and every odd number you find yourself starting in a multi ball until you just have to you know beat up freddy and make the final blow that's very straightforward i think that makes sense i think it's just like a most got leaps of this era it's like there's a lot of multi-balls it's the same thing we have frank thomas on the floor big hurt game is super fun yeah almost every mode is a multi-ball and that drags for me because i'm like all right like yeah for sure however it is a lot of fun and that's why i put it on the floor is because I'm like, this game's fucking fun. Casuals love it. Yeah, you know, after chasing a grand champ score for two weeks on Jaws or Godzilla, let's say you will use Godzilla, and you're getting your ass kicked and kicked and kicked, sometimes it's nice to just break away and play something that's going to feed you multi-balls and give you that participation trophy. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean, any time that you have fun on pinball, like, who cares? it doesn't matter how you get there you're having fun and i'm also a firm believer in like if you don't like the game don't play it i mean that i do that all the time i practice that all the time instead of just diving in and being like man this game fucking sucks right like over and over it's just like dude yeah i just don't play it yeah no harm no foul but uh i'll read you a couple more of these let's do it man stern electronics says which is a funny username what stern electronics says it psyched me out a minute i know boring is yeah gary stern says boring is the only way to describe this game take away the dot matrix and sound what do you have left a very terrible pinball experience getting past the infamous breaking clause it still lacks the basics shame on gottlieb you would think that in the 90s they would have perfected the basics the game doesn't even have a spinner the game is purely a licensed cash-in and a weak one at that stay away even if you're a nightmare fan pure waste of time and money let me handle this bitch yeah i mean hey hey it doesn't have a spinner dude it's not even a pinball machine you got me there what the fuck was i thinking about coming on here and defending that goddamn game without a spinner in 1994 yeah i don't know man i uh that's a good one here's the question this keeps coming up with the breaking clause and stuff and you you mention it you're like i'm not going to defend that yeah what is that shot supposed to do because it's on the ramp return and if you get it what does it give you if you like what are you aiming for with it and what's the benefit of kicking it off the ramp so you're aiming for the captive ball that's beside the boiler room okay there's just a captive ball shot that's oddly satisfying i think and it takes a hit point off freddy as well and it's a jackpot shot uh you can get into like strobing jackpot mode and if you hit that when that ball is coming down from the glove flipper it's goddamn impossible okay i was like huh that's really the shot huh okay yeah no there's not much to it the shot is there to feed into something i think that's it's it's there to have an excuse to have that glove right okay that's all it is it's not yeah that's i mean that's what i feel for it anyway like if you're gonna hit a ball with a glove but can you not hit that shot from the lower left flipper oh yeah you can you can hit it anything but it's when that shot goes up when your glove flipper is activated so you can't use that flipper all the time you have to you have to earn it which you usually get from the mystery scoop that feeds up into it okay okay yeah i wanted to know i figured i'd ask the expert here oh don't don't give me that title i'm just i'm just some guy who stepped up to bat because i was yeah you're both attacked in the grocery store parking lot one day you're not the dad you're just that you're the man that stepped up yeah i'm the guy that like joe jumped out of his car to defend that kid getting bullied even though the kid getting bullied might have been kind of a weirdo loser i love it i don't i love that game all right i got a few more we gotta roll through here we got venom 249 says the game is creepy and weird as it should be just not much fun though and it's almost as ugly as acdc you ugly little shit is it i don't know is acdc considered an ugly game uh i think by some people it is i don't for me that was like a transition period for stern where they were transitioning from way worse art so to me that game is like by today standards yes it not what it would be if they released it now uh it be better but at the time it didn feel super ugly to me Like I said like i spoken on the show before it like stern made some games like csi and 24 and some really like ugly art packages for games right before then which i think it's acdc is not the worst of them but nick's paint says no rhyme or reason whatsoever with this pin nothing fluid very little to shoot at reward for launching the ball is multiball woohoo welcome to my world bitch yeah that's sick yeah it's funny just because like these bad reviews are just making me stoked to go play it so like leading up to this i should say i took freddy out of a bar that i had it in i was like you know what fuck it and I just brought it into my spare bedroom where I live. And I was like, I'm just going to, you know, be in this thing's company leading up to this podcast. And I love all of this stuff. Right. Yeah. All the stuff that people hate you love. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny mostly because I'm not like taking it very serious. It's a game of pinball. I just, you know, love to be immersed into the theme. And it's something I told myself that I probably would never own when I first got into pinball. So it's a personal little thing to me to, you know, have my own of it. It's the only pinball machine that's in my house right now, mostly because we got to do some tweaks on it. Yeah. But, yeah, I don't know. To me, it's like, yeah, woo-hoo, multi-ball. It's like, yeah, that's sick, man.
    42:04
    Skywalker says, I do not like anything about it. It's a bad theme for pinball. Everyone forgot. Oh, that sucks. okay that's that's such a shitty review it is a shitty review oh my god but i love that review that might be my favorite one yeah i don't want anything about this but yeah it's a bad theme for pinball uh to me it's like yeah i don't know i like to see a bit more like you know that person's review of like woohoo multiball it's like no it's not just multiball it's like a giant head vomiting a multiball to you yeah it does have a memorable start yeah you know even when he's like I've got too much iron in my diet. And then it's just like, and just starts spitting out these balls. That's a pinball toy in progress working perfectly for me. Okay, so Sinisterit says, own this game for a short time and recently played one on location. To each their own, but I found the gameplay and fun factor to be the lowest out of just about any game I've ever played. I would choose Hollywood Heat or just about any other D-list Gottlieb title over this game. It's cool because it's Freddy, but the layout and rules are just so bad. I see a lot of people call this table underrated, but I don't think that's possible. I usually don't review games I don't like, but this game to me is a total stinker. Sorry. I should warn you, princess.
    43:29
    That's all right, man. It's okay. You accept his apology? Yeah, you know what? I do. You know what? I totally accept that person's apology.
    43:41
    it's funny because one of my my very good friends who works on uh games for me carl he um one of his games that he has at home he's like man he was the guy that was like man they're like distant freddy and that same episode he was like you know keep in mind this is the guy who called me to be like they're distant freddy who's also sitting on a hollywood heat in his basement and then immediately after that you guys started burying hollywood heat even more well if he wants to come on the show and defend hollywood heat that'd be that'd be a good time i can feel that episode coming but yeah yeah no man apology accepted dog meat all right ssmc 1987 says great theme that is very poorly delivered seems the claws broken on every example i've seen and the audio is way too repetitive. The theme could use a redo by Stern. Man, this just keeps on going, eh? Yeah.
    44:43
    Stern, I don't know. No, you know what? I don't think I've ever found the audio really repetitive on it. Maybe it's just because I enjoy hearing it, but... Sure. I don't know. I guess, like, it is just... There's quotes from the movie. There's not many, but there's just dialogue clips, especially from Nightmare on Elm Street 4.
    45:06
    So, hey, maybe there's another reason why I like it a lot. Yeah, your favorite movie is represented in your game. A lot of Freddy, like Robert Englund, doing the voiceover and stuff. Maybe I just appreciate that they actually got him to do that. There's nothing worse when a pinball machine tries to mimic it. So it's the real deal, you know what I mean? And I'm happy to hear him spout off. And, you know, if you press the start button and there's no money in it, he says he'll break your fingers next time yes yeah and stuff like that is like i'm quality over quantity i guess sure um i'm just happy that it aligned at the right time at the height of that series to get what i could have always wanted freddie versus jason people saying if it was just done five years earlier or you know like six seven years earlier you would have gotten both prime actors kind of doing it. I'm just happy that this happened when it did, I guess. Yeah, I never really found it too repetitive. I guess now I can think of it. What do you think about Stern remaking it? I mean, we talked about it a little bit earlier, but it's like, if somebody at Stern were to remake it, I think you have a couple Keith Elwin games. What if Keith made this? Would you be an LE buyer? No, I'll never buy an LE. Okay, but you buy a premium. Yeah, sure. I guess. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. It depends. Okay. Um, it depends. I don't know. Yeah. I feel like I have no idea. Probably. Yeah. Probably. I guess. But I feel like I'm going to be looking back at all these features being like, man, now I got to pay thousands and thousands of more dollars for these features that came with the original. Sure. Yeah, totally. But whatever. Yeah. I'll buy it. I'll, I'll, I'll dig in. They could probably do some, uh, atmospheric stuff with the code though and make it a really deep kind of balanced game yeah there's a lot more that they could do i mean there's no you know the budgetary restraints i don't think would be what they were you know maybe then quality would have been different i'm sure there wouldn't be a play may who knows maybe they will just for the sake of it throw a plastic flimsy glove in yeah just to keep things retro yeah have it break immediately man it's just like the old one but uh yeah i don't know i would sure sure why not they got me with godzilla they got me with jaws yeah all right so we got button mash says a hugely wasted opportunity i'm a big gottlieb fan and a big nightmare on elm street fan but this freddy is a really bad game awful layout with no shots toys that do nothing in a boiler room door that will never work 100 for long there's so much they could have done with this theme so many toy opportunities and cool shots and modes but instead we got this lifeless uninspired table a huge disappointment bottom line it just isn't fun that boiler room has never broke on me once there you go back when i wanted this game getting into pinball, I heard from every veteran operator that was still doing their thing around there. It's like, don't get this. It's just going to be a money pit and it's going to be a headache. And out of all the games I've ever owned, this was one of the ones that never gave me a headache. It sat at a bar and it worked flawlessly for over a year. It was one of my best games, for sure i know premiere games aren't always that's not always the case with premiere games they're pretty notorious for not being like that but for whatever reason i lucked out on it i don't know i feel like sometimes when people say you know there's so many more toys that they could have done i feel like you know especially at that year you know with that company it's not like you know the skies there's no blank check for all these games there is budgetary restraints and I think it's pretty crazy what they came up with well I think the game is loaded yeah dude look at that again look at that head to me the toys aren't it's so interesting he calls out the toys and how they missed I'm like man that's the toy the claw safe between the flippers is fucking yeah I mean yeah that shit is fucking cool yeah boiler room door he said he played one that didn't work i guess so whatever i mean any pinball machine that doesn't work sucks uh but i don't think the toys are what makes this game no in general that's why i thought that was an interesting one but here's a good username windball pizzard says typical got leap jump from the 90s i played this at papa 15 and thought i was in for a treat but boy was i wrong i played it once and was completely bored absolutely no reason to play this game twice the first time tends to get a little messy yeah man yeah he did i mean it elicits a strong reaction i guess one game he's like never again and i'm gonna write a review yeah like and i'm gonna go on pin side and write yeah you can't base the review off of one game i agree with that i would never leave a review for a game I only played once. Even the times I've watched a movie for the first time and I didn't like it and I chose to revisit it, you know, as my tastes and everything have matured even, and I'm like, wow, this is actually amazing. I feel like, yeah, you can't, I feel like some people have review quotas and I just got to get them out of there. Well, I got two more, and these last two are interesting. Oh, man. They're short, but they're interesting. Let's hear it. I love this. I'm so excited for these two. Okay, so Pinball Crazed says, horrid really disappointing as i'm a fan of the films a big fan of the films it looks great but it plays like a turd i love the idea of somebody calling a pinball machine horrid yeah it's like man it's good underutilized yeah underutilized yeah yeah yeah horrid it's horrid it's like jesus really it was horrid. Fuck, that must have been pretty bad. He does say it looks great. That's good. But it plays like a turd. Okay, and then the last one, what I did find interesting about both of these is that they're basically two-sentence reviews and they both use the same word. Not horrid, but here, I'll read it. Skink91 says, I have never come close to hating a machine this much. There are zero redeeming qualities on this turd. Die, you little bitch. Goddammit, Skink. so there's two that are just calling it a third yeah i mean i wish i could just see people play i want to see these games being played that they're basing the review on oh you mean like the quality like if it was working if it was clean no no no no no no i just wish i could be there to see these like oh when they're having a terrible time playing the person's actual physical and emotional like response to this horrid game like it's like i'm more so curious i'm like damn yeah that's a good yeah that's your review but how bad was that ball i love hearing i love whenever we get the worst skinks as i've never even come close to hating a game this much oh you're like damn yeah i love that though all right um thanks for everyone for listening thank you once again, Ian, for jumping on the podcast to defend Nightmare on Elm Street. For anyone out there who's listening who hasn't played it, get on the pinball map. Try and see if you can't find one of these games near you. If not, earmark it for the next time you're at a show or a festival or a big tournament that you travel to, and make sure you put some games on Nightmare on Elm Street. Give it a chance, especially if you're a Nightmare on Elm Street fan. The theme integration is really good. It's got some cool mechs, and there's some fun to be had there. And, you know, like Ian was saying, he loves this game, unequivocally. So maybe you're one of them, too. For everyone else, just go out and play some pinball, whatever you can find. Support your local operator, and until next time, good luck. Don't suck.
    53:41
    Get off your feet. Five, six, grab your piece of the cake. Seven, eight, and stay awake. Nine, ten, never sleep again.