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The Pinball Show Ep 25: Soft Reboot, Hard News

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 51m·analyzed·Aug 17, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

TPN News: Guns N' Roses/September, Batman 66 relaunch, TMNT QC issues, code updates.

Summary

The Pinball Show episode 25 features correspondents reporting on Jersey Jack's rumored Guns N' Roses machine (with all band member signatures including Axl Rose confirmed for the collector's edition, arriving in September), Stern's Batman 66 re-release in November Premium Edition, TMNT Pro manufacturing issues (clear coat pooling, playfield printing), Stern code updates for Stranger Things and Elvira's House of Horrors, and discussion of Stern's operational challenges with topper production and Pro model availability. The hosts also discuss Jersey Jack's 'soft reboot' restructuring and move to Chicago.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack's Guns N' Roses collector's edition will include signatures from all current band members, including Axl Rose

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg's correspondent report citing 'reliable source'; contradicts earlier incorrect social media post that excluded Axl Rose

  • September will be an exciting month for Jersey Jack Pinball and the pinball world

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg citing reliable source; implied new game announcement

  • TMNT Pro models showing manufacturing defects: clear coat pooling around star posts and playfield printer pixelation issues

    high confidence · Multiple Pinside reports verified by Joel Engelberth on Just Another Pinball podcast; Joel is a commercial printing specialist

  • Stern is re-upping Batman 66 license with small Premium Edition run in November

    high confidence · Craig Bobby correspondent report; orders being taken now

  • Stranger Things received code update V.98 with 'Light the Fire' wizard mode and other enhancements

    high confidence · Craig Bobby correspondent report; standard code update announcement

  • Elvira's House of Horrors received code update V.0.99

    high confidence · Craig Bobby correspondent report

  • Haggis Pinball manufacturing halted due to Victoria, Australia shutdown

    high confidence · Dr. John correspondent report citing complete regional lockdown preventing manufacturing

  • Hot Wheels Pinball was well-received at South Beloit, Illinois Hot Wheels meetup

    high confidence · Kaz/Brian Cosner correspondent report from American Pinball

  • Jersey Jack is undergoing a 'soft reboot' with move to Chicago and restructuring focused on current owners and new development team

    high confidence · Tim Cromwell JJP podcast interview with Jim Patla, new JJP COO; hosts' editorial interpretation of 'reboot' terminology

Notable Quotes

  • “I predict that the next Jersey Jack pinball will sell more collector's editions than any of the previous collector's editions made.”

    Zach @ ~47:00 — Prediction about JJP's upcoming Guns N' Roses game CE sales performance; reflects confidence in IP appeal and market demand

  • “So you just need a lot of something in there to motivate that level of investment because there's so much you can get with $12,500 competitively in the market.”

    Dennis @ ~46:00 — Critique of premium pricing strategy for collector's editions; reflects market saturation and value proposition concerns

  • “A soft reboot for me, Dennis, is almost like whenever some of these people can relate, and this is filthy, so, is like when you jerk off, but then your wife wants to have sex a couple hours later.”

    Zach @ ~52:00 — Humorous but crude analogy for 'soft reboot' concept; illustrates show's comedic tone and irreverent approach

  • “I really, really, really want Stern to put Lyman on another game that has a pro. I'm tired of him only being on this expensive stuff.”

    Dennis @ ~79:00 — Criticism of designer allocation strategy; reflects market segment accessibility concerns for competitive players

  • “Stern seems to really struggle with, and you may know more on this as a distributor, but they seem to really struggle with, it almost seems like motivating themselves to want to put out toppers. It's like a big chore for them.”

    Zach @ ~60:00 — Commentary on Stern's topper production challenges and apparent lack of enthusiasm for accessory manufacturing

  • “How about this, guys? How about you get the right fucking information before you air it?”

    Zach @ ~23:00 — Criticism of inaccurate reporting by other podcasters (apparent reference to Kaneda/Canadian Pinball Podcast); emphasizes TPN's sourcing standards

  • “It's a must-buy. It's completely positioned to advantage your argument.”

    Zach @ ~67:00 — Commentary on collectibility and perceived necessity of premium toppers for LE owners; reflects FOMO mechanics

Entities

Jersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyGuns N' RosesgameTMNT (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)gameBatman 66gameStranger ThingsgameElvira's House of Horrorsgame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern manufacturing capacity constraints: Pro models not produced for months; production prioritized toward Turtles, Jurassic, Batman, and Comic Art editions; distributor unable to fulfill Pro requests

    medium · Dennis (distributor) reports multiple requests for Pro models with no availability; Zach notes extended Pro production gap; both speculate on competing priorities

  • ?

    business_signal: Haggis Pinball manufacturing suspended due to Victoria, Australia regional lockdown; game completion delayed pending manufacturing resumption

    high · Dr. John correspondent report citing complete Victoria shutdown preventing manufacturing operations

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack undergoing 'soft reboot' with move to Chicago headquarters and restructuring focused on current ownership and new development team leadership

    high · Tim Cromwell JJP podcast interview with Jim Patla (JJP COO); hosts interpret terminology as spiritual/operational reboot rather than full restart

  • ?

    leak_detection: Unverified social media post incorrectly reported Guns N' Roses CE would exclude Axl Rose signature; quickly deleted; TPN corrected record with reliable sourcing

    high · Ken Rudberg explicitly contrasts false claim vs. verified information from 'reliable source'; hosts critique competitor's poor sourcing practices

  • $

    market_signal: Topper-driven purchasing: consumers buying parent game (Black Knight) primarily for topper accessory rather than base game features; toppers creating secondary FOMO market

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.334

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:10
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle.
0:26
It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. Welcome back, everybody. This is the Pinball Show, episode 25. We are your hosts, Zach, Manny, Dennis, Creasel from EGP. Dennis, how's it going? I'm excited to be back with you. We are back. It's going well. Going quite well. You feel like it's been a while? Two weeks? Well, I mean, that's not like an atypical amount of time for me historically to do shows, It felt pretty normal, but I think a lot of people were upset you didn't announce that you weren't going to do it. I responded to someone on the pin side, and I think it made them sad because it was me and not you. Really?
1:10
I'm reading between the lines. I read the pin side, and people are more tennis fans on there, I think. Yeah, but I think they like you to respond. They think you make all the TPN decisions. Oh, my friend. So they always expect you. You're the mouse piece. The throne of lies. Well, there are a lot of assumptions about TPN that people make still that are – They do. I don't know if it's just because people told jokes and they don't get it or what. But it's like these things kind of live on. Are you still having fun? Yeah. Yeah, I am too. It's been – I have to admit it's been more difficult with there being like no news at all because that's what the show was structured to work with was the news. Yeah. So I find myself at a loss when what I want to talk about, there's nothing to talk about with it. Yeah, but I secretly enjoy it just as much not having the news because then I can have fun. Yeah, but I don't like half your segments. So what's fun for you for me is really just more of like an exercise in futility. Well, a good comeback for me would have been I don't like half of you, but it's just not true. I miss you.

  • Stern has not produced Pro models for months and currently has no plans for additional Pro production

    medium confidence · Host speculation based on observed absence and manufacturing prioritization; not officially confirmed

  • “You might see a mini spike now that more of the toppers are out. Because there are some people that, I mean. It's weird to hear people, but I saw someone message me this week who said they were seriously considering getting Black Knight just because of the topper.”

    Zach @ ~56:00 — Observable market phenomenon: topper availability driving secondary game purchases; reflects accessory-driven demand dynamics

    • Hot Wheels Pinballgame
    Black Knightgame
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Haggis Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Ken Rudbergperson
    Craig Bobbyperson
    Dr. Johnperson
    Jim Patlaperson
    Eric Menierperson
    Keith Johnsonperson
    Joel Engelberthperson
    Zombie Yetiperson
    Lymanperson
    Dennisperson
    Zachperson

    medium · Zach reports message from player considering Black Knight purchase solely for topper availability; reflects accessory-as-differentiator trend

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Zombie Yeti confirmed as head of Stern Pinball art department with authority over visual design; TMNT playfield art experiencing quality control issues on manufacturing

    high · Craig Bobby references 'Zombie Yeti's beautiful art' with pixelation issues; personnel title implicit in art department attribution

  • $

    market_signal: Collector's edition pricing elevated ($12,500 estimated for Guns N' Roses); hosts question differentiation value and competitive positioning at premium price points

    medium · Dennis expresses skepticism about CE signature-only differentiation; Zach predicts higher CE sales but acknowledges pricing creates substitution risk vs. competitive Pro/Premium alternatives

  • ?

    announcement: Stern re-upping Batman 66 DC license with Premium Edition small run in November 2024; orders being taken now through distributors

    high · Craig Bobby correspondent report citing official Stern announcement timing

  • ?

    announcement: Jersey Jack Guns N' Roses pinball confirmed for September with collector's edition including all band member signatures; designed by Eric Menier with code by Keith Johnson and Joe Katz

    high · Ken Rudberg correspondent report citing reliable source; September announcement date and signature inclusion explicitly confirmed

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern code development trajectory: Stranger Things V.0.98 and Elvira V.0.99 both approaching 1.0 release; feature completeness concerns for Elvira before 1.0 freeze

    medium · Craig Bobby reports code versions; hosts discuss 1.0 proximity and potential missing features; Lyman's historical patterns of post-1.0 updates mentioned

  • ?

    product_concern: TMNT Pro manufacturing issues: clear coat pooling around star posts and playfield printer pixelation/resolution problems reported across multiple units

    high · Multiple Pinside reports verified by Joel Engelberth (commercial printing specialist) on Just Another Pinball podcast; personal new-in-box verification

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Positive reassessment of Elvira's House of Horrors from skeptical expectations to sleeper hit status; strong code development continuing toward 1.0 release

    medium · Dennis describes Elvira as unexpected success with impressive layout; mentions code updates approaching 1.0; expresses confidence in Lyman's historical patterns

    • 2:16
    Me too. You had family stuff. Your studio was in little boxes and you had family stuff. It was in limbo. Yeah, we went to the drive-in movie. You ever been to the drive-in movie? Like you dropped into the fourth layer of Inception.
    2:29
    Drive-in, yeah, when I was a kid. Really? You haven't been lately? I don't know if there's one that's operating. Oh, maybe now with COVID, but most of them closed. So, no, not for two decades plus. Man, we went and seen the Goonies. I love that film. Oh, that does not hold up. I pity you. I'm not even going to go there I'm not even going to do it because that was bait and I thought I had laid it out really quite well it was something so asinine and absurd why don't you step into my trap I've activated my trap card why don't you step on it you got a case of Pepsi's in there but I'm not stepping in so you prefer Pepsi over Coke that's very atypical not only do I prefer it that's the correct answer ask Dwight Sullivan he'll tell you Pepsi is the best cola period i mean it's got its fans but like in terms of countries i'm trying to think of the only country i recall there because i saw a thing about like international soft drink brands and what were most popular and coke is the most popular in most nations uh pepsi was more popular in israel and i think maybe one other country but i don't remember what it was what else do you do this uh these last couple weeks well uh last week i had an egp episode so i had to do that and i and i had of work over the weekend. So I've been really behind on getting my sleep schedule back because all the work was done late. It was late night Friday and late night Sunday work. It was just some deadlines that I offered to help with something that in retrospect I shouldn't have. Because it wasn't my job to do it. It was another entity asking for my help. As you know, Zach, I have trouble saying no. Not to me. I heard that on EGP where you were like, I have trouble saying no, and I took it on. I was the only person. I'm like, that son of a bitch says no to me all the time. Yeah, well. Now, you said last time we were on that the donut thing was mean towards you. Yeah, it was kind of like a mean idea to try and make people into foodstuffs that make people fat. So David Dennis, who helps out with social media on Facebook on the Pinball Network, says, if Zach Many were a type of seafood, what would he be? Hashtag craps. Now, you thought yours was bad. No. I got... But seafood's relatively healthy. See, you're a good health food. Donuts are not good for you. I would love for that to be true, but I got statements such as, Red Snapper, a blobfish.
    4:59
    You know how hideous a blobfish is, Dennis? I thought that was visual, though. I mean, it might be quite tasty.
    5:05
    It's probably disgusting, too. I got a geoduck. I've got shrimp. Several shrimp responses. I don't know how to take that. What would that mean to you? Shrimp. You got shrimp. Well, you're not short, so I don't think they're making a... A crawfish, which is also a mud bug. That's not very nice. Yeah, but they're really just little lobsters.
    5:30
    Oh, so I'm just a little lobster. Yeah. Ari Jones. Thanks, Ari. He just says a blowfish. see poisonous if not prepared right a remora i mean come on so yeah not not uh complimentary josh mudger said he's more like the cheddar bay biscuit from red lobster not a fish at all you guys suck you guys suck my favorite one though was from amoda amoda went with the crab thing, but she said I was Sebastian from The Little Mermaid.
    6:03
    Oh, she lies. You do not sing that well. The seaweed is always greener. Somebody is to blame. You can join me, Janet. No, thank you.
    6:17
    Just look at the world around you. Right here on the ocean floor. Such wonderful things store around you. What more are you looking for? Oh, no. Tell me, listener, that you're not now singing the chorus. Yes, you are. Yes.
    6:34
    Big Little Mermaid fan. You should have gone and seen that at the drive-thru instead of Goonies. I would have been completely fine with that. Did you watch The Little Mermaid as a kid? Yep, I saw it in the theater. I remember I didn't want to go because I thought it was too kiddy or something. And as I remember, if I didn't remember, my mom wouldn't let me forget anyway. As I left the theater, I turned to her and I said, thank you for making me come watch this movie. Oh, how responsible of you. This is good feedback from mom. Because I was wrong. It was good. You're like, mother, thank you for allowing me to come see Disney's The Little Mermaid.
    7:11
    Thumbs up. And I had to get back in my box. As you ate a cracker? Yeah. You know, people have been poo-pooing pinball news over the last week or so. And I thought, why don't we hit them upside the head with not one, not two, but a plethora of pinball news. And it's coming direct from our correspondents. You ready to listen? Yes, Zach. I'd love to listen to our correspondents. We have news.
    7:39
    It's time for TPN Industry News. Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. Well, I finally got some news this week, which is something that has been in short supply in the pinball world for the past few weeks. A social media post appeared last week that referenced Jeremy Jack's heavily rumored Guns N' Roses pinball machine. It stated that the collector's edition of that pin would include signatures from all the current band members. All that is except for frontman Axl Rose. Well, I have some information from a reliable source that this information is not true. Wrong! The collector's edition will, in fact, include all of the band's signatures, including Axl Rose. This is great news for Jersey Jack fans who plan on going all in on this theme and springing for their highest-end model. Another piece of news that I was given by this reliable source is that September is going to be an exciting month for both Jersey Jack Pinball and the pinball world. Hmm. I wonder what that could mean.
    8:50
    For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. Holy new production run, Batman! TMNT production glitches, code updates, and get ready for some new TPS midweek podcasting. Hey everyone, Craig here again, the Pinball Show's stern news correspondent. Yes, hang on to your hats, true believers, because Gotham's dynamic duo are getting their crime-fighting license renewed again this holiday season. That's right, Batman 66 is coming back. Ready just in time for the 2020 holiday season, Stern is taking orders now for a small run of Premium Edition models in November for the best holiday gift to fans on this side of the DC Universe. Spots will sell fast, so call your distributor today to get in on the awesome crime-fighting action. And from great to, well, not so good. Unlucky customer reports seem to be popping up across Pinside that some early TMNT Pro models are showing minor signs of clear coat pooling around star posts and occasionally play field printer issues where some of Zombie Yeti's beautiful art may seem slightly pixelated or at slightly lower resolution. Later verified by TPN's own Joel Engelberth with his own disappointing TMNT new in-box experience, Joel, being a commercial printing specialist himself, speculated on his Just Another Pinball podcast on what those issues could be that are causing these imperfections. Hopefully this is something that is only isolated to a small group of units that has managed to slip through Stern's top-notch QC department. Cowabunga, indeed. Now we know that Dennis loves what he would characterize as fake pinball news updates, However, we do have some new code dropping this week from Stern for Stranger Things V.98. This extremely dynamic code update includes Light the Fire Wizard mode, along with numerous other game enhancements, additional polish, and bug fixes. And not to get left behind, Elvira's House of Horrors has new code as well, V.99, with its own scintillating and spooky enhancements, so be sure to clear some space on your USB stick, Zach, for those new additions. And of course, all those new code updates on recent titles have some Munsters owners complaining that their favorite machine has been left in the dark with badly needed code updates of its own. And lastly, guys, good news! TMNT has arrived in Canada, and I got my first chance to play it last week, so stay tuned as I have my first play impressions on this Hot Turtles title for the not-so-midweek midweek edition of TPS. That's all for this week. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    11:44
    Hello, I'm Dr. John on the Pinball Show for this week's SHIT update. For all Victoria, in Australia is in complete shutdown, so no manufacturing possible from Haggis, but we're still looking forward to the completion of my game. Spooky on the other hand, no news but an excellent podcast this month If you've never listened to the Spooky Pinball Podcast find it on your local webcaptor actually the longest podcast that's been around now broadcasting continuously over the last 10 years and this month's episode, Charlie's Bug about what it's like growing up in a pinball family and working for a pinball manufacturer And one lesson to take away when you see that job that advertised for a playfield tester and pinball game tester, don't apply. You'll find out why on the podcast. They also remind everybody if you own any spooky game there is custom armour available. These look rather stunning with flaked finishes and they are all available on the Spooky website so check it out for your Alice Cooper, TNA, America's Most Haunted or Rob Zombie. That's it for this week but for now stay safe and try and play some pinball especially if you're Rick and Morty assuming you haven't broken it. Catch you next week. Hey, this is Kaz with a quick American Pinball update. Hot Wheels Pinball was a huge hit at the Hot Wheels meetup in South Beloit, Illinois. Lots of people got to have some hands-on time with the game and meet with the staff at American Pinball. And also, don't forget to check out the Surrogate.TV, where you can play the Internet Connected Oktoberfest. They have their tournament running through August 28th, where you can win some prizes. So check that out. and please go support your local arcades and bars and locations. Buy a gift card, buy a t-shirt, buy a hat. Please support them. If you can go out safely and play, go do that. I just urge everyone to support them during this time. Hope everybody has a great week and has fun playing pinball. For American Pinball, this is Brian Cosner.
    13:57
    It's always great to hear the correspondence. It is always great to hear from them. What I love, though, this week especially, I want to pay proper respect. I was reading social media and an ex-podcaster, he got a little angry and he said, you've got to start referencing me. He was saying this to the public. You've got to start referencing me, podcasters. You need me. I know I'm away, but you're dying to hear me again. I'm the only one that's got the news. So he said that and he was just really, really high on himself. and he reported something. So just to be fair, I want to cite him. This is Canada's Pinball Podcast. I did in the last week or so that JJP is essentially messing it up because they didn't get Axl Rose on the rumored Guns N' Roses pinball machine. So the podcast is back? No, no. Then how can you cite the podcast?
    14:55
    This is Canada. Nothing makes sense. but he wants us to cite him even when um people put things out there that are wrong i'll cite them all right there you go kaneda you feel better i didn't see whatever you're referring to so i don't know what it was put out under uh a written like podcast pay facebook page or what you're talking about it was just it was a post of somebody that still just craves that attention but unfortunately is consistently wrong. Good thing we've got Ken Rudberg because he clears it up.
    15:32
    Saying that his sources are saying that, in fact, the rumored Guns N' Roses pinball machine will have all of the band members' signatures, including Axl Rose. How do you like them, man? And that's in conflict with what Chris, right? What Chris said? Yeah, Chris said it doesn't have Axl Rose. But then he pulled it real quick. Those are these guys. They put something up there, and they're like, oh, shit, I'm wrong. Pull it. How about this, guys? How about you get the right fucking information before you air it? Wow. How about it? So that's the information we're getting here exclusively on the pinball show. I don't care. I don't have to source. I don't care. Nicely done. I mean, sourcing is nice. It's nice to do. I always try and source when I do research and things. Because if people want to check out your information, of course, if it ends up getting pulled, it's difficult. I mean, the point of the source is so people can go back to examine the source. So if it's deleted, there's nothing to cite. Do you see my point? Yeah, I get that. Just like from a research perspective, that causes a problem. But we don't like airing anything unless we have credible sources, and Ken Redburn really nailed it here. You're just spreading rumors if you're not sure. We can call it fact, and then we can cry when people don't source this, but then also shit on the same people and say that they... Oh, we also got this. Ken Rudberg is also reporting here on the pinball show that September is going to be an exciting month for both Jersey Jack pinball and the pinball world. There you go, Creasel. Boom. Next game, September. Well, exciting month could mean this is when all the new innovative tech comes out, right?
    17:14
    Yeah. Because they teased that. There was going to be all this innovative stuff, and it's been a while since we've seen it. It has been a while. I don't want to say it's necessarily that it's a new game, though that would be normally what I would think.
    17:26
    Hey, guys, new game's coming in September. All right, so we've got a rumored Guns N' Roses coming in September with all the band member signature on the collector's edition model. Now, that's news, right? These people want news. Boom, there you go. You going to buy the new Guns N' Roses game there, Dennis? I don't even know what it looks like. How can I answer that? I don't know. I didn't see. I buy stuff that I'm not thinking. No, I would not. And if it's a wide body, I almost assuredly will not.
    18:02
    I'm not so sure it's a wide body. Think it's Eric Menier? I do. Yes. Eric Menier. You think Eric Menier's got a standard body in him?
    18:11
    Yeah, I think he can. It's just I didn't. If they'd been designing it from a while ago, it seemed like, at the time, Jersey Jack was willing to let Pat Lawler not do wide bodies because he doesn't like them. But otherwise, it felt like the corporate philosophy was wide body. An awesome standard body, just maybe. Okay. Well, I'd be more interested, definitely. And I would assume Keith Johnson will be on code for this, too, I guess. I would assume that, yeah, they do have a teamwork approach. So I would very strongly assume that Keith Johnson and Joe Katz and a couple other people are all coding this thing into a masterpiece. Just an assumption there. This is something I won't take down, though. Do you think they'll sell out of the CEs ever? How many CEs? How many would be made? Oh, I don't know. That I don't know. Well, I need a number. If I were guessing collector's edition, let's say. What was the Wonk account?
    19:07
    500? Let's say it's 500 still. No. they won't. Really? No. Too expensive. Hmm. So, a stern at $9,100, selling out immediately at 500 units, but this you don't see. That's my guess. Hmm. I don't know.
    19:29
    Well, I don't know either. I'm guessing. But we're getting we are getting the interest from the individuals who want a pirate's really bad. That's what this game's got going for it. It's got an Azure theme, it's got Eric Menier, his follow-up software. You did all the features with the LE, so there just have to be something. I don't think the signatures is enough for most people to drive them to the CE. It would have to be something like a Guns N' Roses band inside a bottle as a topper or something. Oh.
    20:01
    Do you think Axl would really fit, though? Let's be fair. That's so mean. he's doing the best he can but look if he does anything like that topper that was on Pirates people bought that game because of the topper yeah I mean there's something really really cool with it that the art package is just over like yeah that was one of the things I thought with Willy Wonka like the CE like the art package didn't feel different enough to me to be motivational but it was different with Pirates remember you didn't have to look at Johnny Death if you got the LE you got to Look at Squid Face. Squid Billy.
    20:39
    So, yeah, if it's different enough, I totally could be wrong. But I also, I mean, I'm like thinking CE is going to be like at $12,500 or something. So you just need a lot of something in there to motivate that level of investment because there's so much you can get with $12,500 competitively in the market. I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prediction here, Dennis. I predict that the next Jersey Jack pinball will sell more collector's editions than any of the previous collector's editions made. Hmm.
    21:10
    Oh. Okay. We'll see. Only time will tell. I don't know. Will we know? Do they reveal those sales? Put it on the – I'll find out.
    21:20
    I'll go ahead and get the truth, Dennis. I'll go now. If it means beating you at something, I'll find out. I would agree with you if it was Toy Story. I would agree. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Tim Cromwell has been doing the JJP podcast, friend of the show and lover. He's been doing the podcast. He interviewed on his recent JJP podcast Jim Patla, who's now the chief operating officer over at JJP. It was a good interview. I like that Patla. I was wanting to get your take on this, Dennis. Patla and them were talking. And he's essentially calling this move to Chicago and this restructuring of stores more focused on the current owners and the new development team. They called it more a reboot with like a new focus to the company. A reboot. It's a very interesting choice of words there. What do you think? Yeah, I get it. I guess it was a little more nebulous, but I probably would have used a similar. I would have called it a soft reboot. That's not as exciting and sexy as a soft reboot. It isn't, but I think it's more accurate. So it's kind of like, look at Jurassic Park versus Jurassic World the movies. Like, Jurassic World is not a remake of Jurassic Park. But it follows all the same beats, and consider it a soft reboot. It's like, okay, we want to get back to basics and kind of get back to the main core story here. And that's what I felt like with J.J.P. It's like, they're not totally restarting everything and just, like, doing it all over again. But it's more like, okay, we've got these things in mind, so it's almost like a spiritual reboot. A spiritual reboot? Yeah, a soft reboot. Okay, so for me... Oh my god, you're laughing at your own jokes. It's gold. It's gold. We're mining this one. A soft reboot for me, Dennis, is almost like whenever some of these people can relate, and this is filthy, so, is like when you jerk off, but then your wife wants to have sex a couple hours later.
    23:26
    It can happen. This is exactly where I thought you would go with this. This is why I regret bringing up the soft reboot. And that you are so pleased, as we used to say. He says punch with your joke. Hide the weasel, park the porpoise. Bit of the old Humpty Dumpty. Little Jack Horny. The horizontal mumbo. I love it. I'm yelling. Hang on back. Where's the fucking goat at? Throw him in here too. Yes.
    23:56
    God, we will not be dethroned. I love it. Soft reboot. You know people are laughing. We will not be dethroned with jokes like that. Jesus. A bone dancer. Rumpel Fosky. A loony bop. With the old cunning linguistics. What's happening to Stern Pinball? Stern Pinball discontinued. Batman? Yeah, they discontinued that Batman six months ago. It's been a while back. Yeah. Like right after the Catwoman's, right? Uh-huh, absolutely. And I thought, oh man, those are selling pretty well. But they've re-upped the license now, per Ricky Bobby, and they're going to run some premiums in November. Good idea, bad idea, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, Batman's a very popular game. Obviously the sales aren't as high as it would have been if there had been a pro model available, but it's really grown in popularity as the code got splashed out. It's a Lyman masterpiece. So, yeah, I'm not too surprised that they ended up re-upping it. You want to hear something strong? Give me a Stranger Things up for Batman. Boom. Batman.
    24:59
    Well, I mean, if we were talking Lyman in particular, I would have said, give me Elvira House of Horrors over Batman.
    25:07
    Way better layout. Absolutely. And I just, it's just more, I just think it's, Elvira, like, if you want to talk about a game that I thought wasn't going to be overly impressive and I've been really impressed with. That was like the sleeper game that surprised me was just how much I enjoyed Elvira. Yeah, people love Batman. I like that they're re-upping this license. I don't know how long they're re-upping it for. I do know that November, I think I'm 11th, November they're going to do a small run and that's it for the rest of the year. I do think that they're going to make another one in 2021. Yeah, I can't imagine they need to make a lot of these. I don't know, man. These sell. They do, but there's, I mean, We got the Toy Ghouls. You still got Jurassic Park. A lot of people want to get a hold of. People still buying Maiden, Deadpool, Elvira. They've got to do more Star Wars comic editions.
    25:58
    I mean. What I think you're going to also see, listener, is, and Dennis, I think you're going to see Black Knight sleep a little bit here. I don't think. Yeah. I don't think Black Knights are, I don't think they're going to run that. You might see a mini spike now that more of the toppers are out. Because there are some people that, I mean. It's weird to hear people, but I saw someone message me this week who said they were seriously considering getting Black Knight just because of the topper, which to me is shockingly weird. That sounds like something I would say. It does. But it's true. But this was not you, which made it extra surprising. But I mean. People are buying that topper without having the game. But I don't know if there's going to be another run of those toppers.
    26:41
    We might get to that later. Stern seems to really struggle with, and you may know more on this as a distributor, but they seem to really struggle with, it almost seems like motivating themselves to want to put out toppers. It's like a big chore for them. Well, we've talked about it before. I don't know this for certain, but when you only have so many man hours,
    27:08
    if you're not making that much on a topper, then why deal with it? I understand, but then it's sort of like, why accrue it at all if it's that? Because by now you know, right? By now you know, like, if you're selling these toppers between $400 and $500, which this one falls in that range of. So you know what your margin is. You've already been doing toppers for years. You know you don't like making them, so maybe don't make them. Oh, don't say that. Well, I mean, the other thing is you can explore, which I think they did with their Jurassic Park, up in the margin on it. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think we going to see more of that And if that means your scenario Dennis that means I can have a topper versus not having one I good with that Right I know you would be. I don't care. I can always not buy the topper, so it doesn't hurt me to have the topper. But if you had a black knight, could you not buy that topper? Yeah, I could not buy it. Bullshit. I would argue that. I don't think you can't.
    28:07
    Don't you tell me what I can and can't do. Who do you think you are? Who do you think you are defining this hobby for me? Do you know who I am? I don't see anybody being able to do it. Listener, you're wrong. There's a listener out there that owns. If somebody owns, I want to hear. You're wrong. Someone emailing the pinballnetwork at gmail.com. If you own an Ellie Black Knight and you don't have the topper, please, please email me and let me know. I guarantee you we will not get any. Only the Ellie people. Well, no, I'm just as a measurement here. They're already the ones showing they're willing to throw as much money as possible at it. That's what I'm saying. It's a must-buy. It's completely positioned to advantage your argument. It's just a subset. If you have a premium, that's fine. That's the measurement you want. That's fine. I'm just saying that. Some of you competition pro players, you're like, I don't even care. Everything goes away in my vision except for the shots and the inserts. But the pro is by far the better playing version. I can't disagree with you there. I know you can't because it's mathematically proven. You know what's weird, though? They haven't made prose for months upon months upon months. I don't even know if they've made prose. Because there weren't any choppers and no one wants it anymore. But people want the prose. I've been asked several times for prose, and I don't think they're making any more than They're busy with Turtles. They're busy with Jurassic. They're busy maybe with Batmans in a while. They're busy with comic art editions. They're very busy over at Stern. I don't know how busy they are with Stranger Things, but they did have a code update. Point nine eight. You love talking code updates. Where it has a light the fire wizard mode.
    29:49
    There's an overrated band. You realize that? I don't want to get to the heart thing again. But yeah, the doors really.
    29:57
    Did they do? I messed up the heart. I didn't mess up the doors. They're not that great. Light the fire wizard mode. Point nine eight. We're almost there. Elvira. New code update, 0.99. We're really close there. These are scaring me, though. It's still scaring me that we're close to 1.0, and I'm still not seeing a couple of the features that I've been waiting for. So, time will tell. I wouldn't panic too much. Yeah. Does Lyman, on this Elvira code, does he historically come out with a big last 1.0? I don't know. I don't know on his release history what his pattern is on that. But I wouldn't, I could see him going. He's gone back to games after time as well, so I wouldn't even, if what you want isn't exactly in 1.0, would necessarily write it off. Though, I would not buy with the assumption that there would be... And this is me being both cheap and selfish. I really, really, really want Stern to put Lyman on another game that has a pro. I'm tired of him only being on this expensive stuff. I want Toppers to be $100.
    31:01
    But there's no reason he can't be on pro. I mean, what was the last game he did that had a pro walking dead? No, surely not. I think it was. I think it was 2014 Walking Dead.
    31:15
    There's no way. He did a game between Walking Dead and Batman. What game? I've got to look it up because I don't know offhand.
    31:26
    Yeah, Dennis, you're correct. Wow. Okay. Well, I believe he had to work on the Spike system. Yep. I believe he was working on Spike and Spike 2. That is very much correct, yeah. So, yeah. So, one, after you're done, Superman reference, kneeling before Zod, you can kneel before me for not believing me on that. And second, I think we're due. It has been six years. But Spider-Man Fault wasn't a pro. Damn it, you are right. Shit. No, I know I'm right. So, it was quaint that you wanted to see that, you know, that you were insistent that I was wrong. It's hard to believe. Why? Because that's a long time. I know, and so that's why I feel that while it is selfish of me to say, because obviously I don't have anything that isn't a pro since the pros came out, I think six years is long enough. Oh, yeah, at this point I agree. I can't argue with that. Yeah. Do you think we will get a Liman Sheets coded game in 2021? I will say yes, I do. Yeah, I don't see how we don't. Because I don't think they're working on a new system.
    32:34
    There's nothing to the degree of Spike or something. So given that, yeah, I think so, especially because his wrapping up on Elvira is essentially imminent. If you think he was being partnered with a designer, who would be your guess as to who he is partnered with?
    32:52
    I would think he would probably be partnered with Borg. Damn, that was my guess, too. Why, damn. Because I thought it might be fun to see which one is right next year. I would guess Borg's next one. Yeah, I mean, I don't. Yeah, I don't. Because Keith is not going to. Keith works with Nagel. No, Keith wants to do his own code. And so he's got, I mean, he wants to do his own rules. And so he's got a programmer that can implement his vision. So there's no reason to do that. I don't think Wyman will ever work with Steve Ritchie again. So that rules that out. I could see it, but I think Sexton and Richie are going to win. No, no. I mean, my understanding is that Tim and Steve get along really, really well. So I think it's almost like, why would you break? I just don't see it happening. So that pretty much leaves Borg. It's possible that he could do the next Brian Eddy. Or Gomez. I don't think Gomez is doing another game. Man, Brian Eddy, please make that be true. Eddie has a software background but we saw with Stranger Things that he had two other people helping him so clearly if he's doing game design he does not seem to want to design all the rules that's the read I got with Stranger Things man that would be phenomenal though Brian, Eddie and I just think Borg, I think they've had really good collaborations in the past also I'm playing the odds a little bit with that as well because Borg is like the one guy that can put out two pinball machines in a year No one else seems to do that with Stern. Keith Elwin could, but... He could, but Elwin's game sells so well, it's like, I just don't think they'll do it today. And part of it might be his newness still. Speaking of predicting what's next, we've got Kaneda reporting... Who? Chris Coolers. Poor Chris. This is what happens when you drop out and you still shit talk to people. Where's your microphone at there, Chris? he reports a couple weeks ago I've got to cite him because he's requesting me citing him. So Chris Coolers of Canadian Pinball Podcast reports that fact Queen will be the next licensed pin from Stern. Now he quickly pulled that down after realizing he was wrong.
    35:08
    And then this week in pinball reports, I think it was last week or the week before, that there's going to be a Marvel based theme as the next Stern pinball machine. Now, to be fair, Jeff pulled his real quick too. What is going on? Who's right? We got Queen coming, we got Marvel coming. And why do people post something and pull it down? I don't get it. Well, the Queen one really surprises me because I knew Pinball Brothers had that license. And I knew they at one point were in discussions with another non-Cern manufacturer to sell it. And at the rate they wanted to sell it at, the manufacturer was not interested. Okay. So I just... So they were maybe trying to move it a little bit. Yeah, well, I think... I mean, this is all complete speculation at this point. But just that with Pinball Brothers and the risk for the... I think it's risky for them to... At the time that this was happening in particular because of the way highways shut down and the way assets were moved. and so there wasn't much for a lot of the debtors to be able to access.
    36:17
    If there was a plan to launch a company as Pinball Brothers, I would have serious concerns using that name and being worried that people would boycott me simply because of the way... The association and stuff at this point. The way they made sure they got theirs, like they transferred assets out of Highway into Pinball Brothers, waited the relevant six months, and then did the UK equivalent of bankruptcy to shut down Highway. If I remember, again, this is allegedly. Let's say allegedly. So given that, it would make more sense to just take assets that are of value and sell them to other existing manufacturers. But I heard they wanted half a million for Queen. Oh, wow. Okay, that's new information. And if Beatles had a million as the most expensive license ever for pinball, you'd have to really want it and really be confident to take that. I think that queen full assets and full discography, that's $500,000 makes sense to me. I don't disagree with you, but something about the way Stern works makes me think they wouldn't bother buying a license away from another pinball. I agree with that. I think they'd negotiate their own deal. I think they'd look at this and go, you ain't moving this product. we're going to wait this, what, two years and let your license expire? We've got 20 in the can. We'll let you burn. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So to me, just given that background, I'm surprised. I would have been very surprised to hear that Stern was going to do Queen this quickly. Because you said it was, that Twip and Chris were both predicting what was next, right? Yep. I just don't know why report that if you didn't know. It's weird. What about the model-based thing? All right. That one, I mean, Stern has a strong relationship with Disney, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did a Marvel game. That one's less shocking to me. But if we're getting a Cornerstone, potentially in October, November, how the hell would you squeeze in something else in between? Well, it would have to be the Cornerstone.
    38:16
    Hmm. Right? I mean, we're not, we're not. Well, no, because the reason I. We're not vaulting Avengers comic art. The reason I was thinking so, because the rumors were that whenever Jeff came out with this, when people were talking, it was more of a re-theme, more of a vault, more of a kind of a comic book rather than a movie-based Marvel. Right? There was a lot of discussion surrounding this. But then Jeff quickly pulled it, and I don't know what that means. I don't know why they would do a vault this year is where I would struggle with.
    38:50
    Yeah. And I know less about, like, I don't know less. I don't know anything about what Stern's doing on their licenses related to Marvel. But, I mean, due to COVID, and I've already mentioned it I think twice now on the show, and the demand, the pent-up demand for the Jurassic Parks, the success on the number of turtles that they need, and if this isn't the cornerstone and they've still got another cornerstone coming out this year, where's the demand where's Stern's need to keep a line busy doing some low run vault thing I don't they've got Ironman vaults that they can do for what it's worth Dennis the listener I'm actually not hearing any of this I'm maybe your sources suck maybe they do only time will tell but I'm not going to tell you guys love me I'm not hearing any of this I think there's going to be a cornerstone. I don't think that cornerstone is going to be a Marvel thing, and it is what it is. I don't know. Nope, I don't see it. I don't see a vault this year. I don't see it. I think we get one more game this year from Stern Pinball, and they'll still stay so busy. It's not even funny. I agree. And I won't pull that real quick. Given what you've already mentioned, like the confirmed, like they're going to do Batmans in November.
    40:08
    They have stuff. I just, I don't see the point in doing a vault this year. That isn't a vault that they already have on the line. It doesn't make sense to me. As a dealer, I would love to get more Elviras than what I am getting from now to the end of the year. The same goes for Jurassic Park. The same goes for Turtles. The same goes for Deadpool. I'm not getting as many as I would love to get more. I cannot get more because that's how big this backlog and this catch-up is right now. So, yeah, throwing another game into the mix on top of a Cornerstone, I don't see it. Now, have you played Turtles yet? No, I'm not. Damn it.
    40:48
    I guess you're going to let me send you an LE so that you can stream exclusively for flipping out pinball streaming. No, you already have your exclusive streamer.
    40:57
    Marv Loco? Well, speaking of turtles, though, there's been some print quality issues that the media have been talking about. I heard about that. You caught some of this? Yeah, on a podcast. What's your take on it? Have you heard enough to have a take, to see any of the pictures? What are your thoughts? I haven't looked at any images. So I guess I see both sides. I see the concern about spending thousands and thousands of dollars and being disappointed. So I understand that. But on the flip side, I don't mean this as harsh as it's going to sound, but it is pinball, not art. It's meant to be played. I don't know if I would notice such a thing. When I think back to the pixelation of the Lord of the Rings games, there's always been questionable – quality control has never been there. Even going back with – you could see based off of who built the wood on the playfields or ran the screens in the Bally Williams era, the colors were different. It's like – so to me, that's always been there. Playfield print quality has always been questionable. Not to the degree of when you're expecting an art print from someone. That's what I mean by it's different. It's like a commercial product. It's not you hang it on the wall and you know that the colors are all proper. They tell us the pros are made to go into the location. But, I mean, I get it. It's still $6,000. Yeah, I know. And the same thing happened, remember, with CGC when there were some issues with, like, one of the colors was missing on some of the Attack from Mars runs. It was like one of the colors didn't mix in right. And people got really upset because things that were supposed to be green were, like, more gray or something. I can see that just because they're reproducing a classic. I'm just saying I've seen it all before. Yeah. I've been around, Zach. I've seen it all before. Here's my take on it because people have been asking me, and we weren't recording last week. I've seen some pictures of the ink print quality and is it as nice as it could be? Nope. I wouldn't make any excuses. When you pay $6,000 for anything, do you deserve good quality? I don't know. If I was buying a $6,000 airplane, I wouldn't be getting into it. So it's all relative there. But yeah, if you're spending $6,000 on a pinball machine, I'd hope it looks good. Now, I think you need to buy what you want, and it's good that this information is out there so people can make an informed decision. Now, but is the printing quality, is this like a – this isn't like the clear coat, though, right, where it's like – No. Where, like, they don't know what the issue is. Like, the one – and I was listening to just another pinball podcast, Joel's podcast, and I think with him, I think he said it sounded like maybe one of the print heads was clogged or something. It almost looks like, you know how when you're in a rush and you go to print something, you just do the efficient print and it prints it real fast? But if you would take that, or rendering a video file, right? I go for best quality. It usually takes about twice as long to render that file. Right. But if I went for just the fast, efficient, good quality, it might go quicker. It's almost as if it's not. You see some of the lines where the inkjet head went? that's what they're talking about when they talk about and the color saturation isn't that look as deep compared to some of the LEs I don't know why it happened I don't know if they're cognizant that it did I don't know the answers there I see what they're talking about that being said I don't it looks good like if you get your head up on the play field okay but that's probably where I guess where I'm at I'm not I don't know I don't know if it would bother me or not But fair enough that it does bother people. If they want to bring it up and get it resolved, then... That's what I've told people. I'm like, well, as your dealer, if you want to request the quality team take a look at this, I will be happy to submit and fight for you. But I don't know if this is enough. I think this might fall within the... It's a commercial device. This is within the range of quality that we're comfortable with. So I don't particularly know. But we've heard of those issues. The other thing is... I do hope, though, that there isn't a difference in the print quality on the pros versus the LEs. Well, somebody else brought up, like, there's not art under the left star post on that game because those were... Like, on my LE, it's pooling a little bit around that one point. Right, right. That's for clear reasons. So somebody speculated, well, maybe they were trying to get these play fields. They pooled the regular pros because they were doing that, so they tried to make some other pros really quick to get back out. getting in queue. Oh, and reduce the, and increase the speed on the print jobs. Yes, yes. It could be. So, who knows? It's all speculation. No clue. This is kind of like the clear issue. Remember when we had the Jersey Jack pooling and the Stern pooling? Yeah. Whenever you, but then when it, when you go back and look at some of the other games, some of the older games, you're like, oh shit, it's got that too. Some of, my Metallica's got that or my Guardians has got that. The same kind of, I hate to, the same kind of thing is happening here. Like, I went and looked at some of my LEs, Dennis, and I saw some of that type of print quality. Now, granted, some of these pictures people are showing are worse than others, but I don't think this is a turtle's issue. I bet this has been a long-term issue. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's why I think it falls within their acceptable range. Probably, but it's fair enough to ask, and if it bugs you, and as machines continue to rise in price, you're going to get more and more nitpicky complaints. It's just going to get more specific, more minute. Yeah, okay. I guess so. Enjoy your machine, people. Well, CERN will need to decide and they'll need to deal with it if it starts to impact their sales. Yeah, that's what you'll see. But, yeah, if you've got it, you can be upset. You can contact your dealer. Do all that. But don't let it ruin your ability to enjoy a badass game. Like, that sucks. If you're looking at the play field print with a ball bouncing everywhere, a ball bouncing, That's when you get a step back and say, what am I doing here? Am I collecting these things for art, or am I collecting these things to have fun, or a little bit of everything? And I think you'll answer everything. Kind of reminds me of in, like, with watches. Have you ever looked into watches? I have not, no. Okay, well, that is really expensive. Or not, depending, because there's a whole range. Yeah, it's a pretty large range. You'll see people ask about them. Because, of course, ever since the Step Right Up watch, I've done some more watch research. And one of the things I saw in some discussions on Reddit, when people talk about watches, is you'll occasionally see someone say, hey, I'm looking at these three watches, but I'm really worried about scratches, like scratching the band, scratching the watch. It's like, okay, well, either it's a tool that you wear, or you're going to stick it in a safe. You need to decide what you want, because you're not going to be able to keep it if you wear it. it's like well will this metal hold up it's like ceramic holds up better than steel uh yeah that's true they're all going to get scratches that's the car argument do you drive the classic car or do you sit in your showroom sure sure it's yeah so this is anyway i get it's very so oh speaking of speaking of hobbies i've been dabbling in the new little hobbies little tangent classic cars no god i can't afford that this is almost just as expensive for some reason Above ground pools. Oh, stop. Collect the whole set.
    48:39
    For the price of an in-ground pool, I could probably buy 20 above ground pools. I know, and that's probably the right size for a collection.
    48:48
    Jeez. But no, one of my buddies said, hey, did you notice the sports card hobby lately? And I collected back in the 90s when I was a young kid because I'm still young people. And I said, no, I don't know. I've got some Jordan stuff. But, no, I haven't. And he was like, it is blowing up. Did you know that sports card collecting is probably on the highest incline as it has been in decades? No. I knew about the decline that they had. Yes. Cards, like, some of these listeners collected cards back in the day, whether it's football cards, basketball, baseball cards. Hell, some people collect Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic, all kinds of stuff. I used to collect back in the 90s basketball cards. That was predominantly what I liked. And I collected, loved it. You get to insert, you open up a pack, break in a box, all kinds of terms. So I dabbled back into this hobby, Dennis, and it is nuttier than pinball. It is more absurd than pinball. It is shadier than pinball could ever be, in my opinion. That's a lot of shame. In my opinion. It's nuts. Okay. Sorry, listener. Any listeners out there collect sports cards, new stuff. I want new stuff. So everything is going up in price.
    50:11
    Do you ever buy a pack of sports cards? Yeah, I did baseball cards when I was a kid. What is your guess as to how much a pack of cards would be?
    50:21
    Five bucks. Yeah, five bucks. That's a nice pack, too, right? Back in the 80s, 90s. Yeah. Nice pack. But nowadays, I'm joking you not, the price of a basketball, like a decent, remember the upper decks, nice basketball. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, the upper decks were the fancy ones. Oh, I know, right? And then you get the series. Oh, you're beyond Thompson. What was the other one, Donruss? There's Donruss. There's Topps. Stadium Club. But upper deck, that was for the rich kids. Fleer. We're ultra. Remember Fleer? Oh, Fleer. Yeah.
    50:53
    Now the big one's Panini. Panini has been around for a long time. That's a sandwich. It's a sandwich. Yes, a panini. I'm hungry. But the Donruss and different stuff like that. But a pack of basketball cards, a nice pack of basketball cards, is only going to give you about five to eight cards in a pack. And I shit you not, listener, I shit you not, Dennis, the pack of cards is going to range anywhere from about $50 to $800 a pack, a single pack of basketball cards. Yikes $500 for a pack of basketball cards We're in topper range Yeah and that's what I thought When I was dabbling into this I was like holy shit People are shitting on me and pinball for buying a topper Literally one pack of basketball cards With five cards in it $600-$700 It's nuts And guess what here's the kicker guys They can't keep them on the shelves Try to go to a Walmart sells retail packs Which is different than hobby packs Hobbies are more expensive because you get more draws and more hits, blah, blah, blah. But you go to a card shop, they can't keep them in the shelves. You're not going to find basketball cards. Sell them out everywhere. It's nuts. So that's what I've been – it's been intriguing me, but it's a big ripoff. I've already spent too much money on basketball cards. But if it entertains you. It does. But not for me. That's the point of any hobby. I could buy a cheap freaking pinball machine with what I've spent the last couple of weeks. Well, you can always sell out before the market crashes and buy yourself a pin. Oh, gosh. Yeah, so if you have any, like Kobe Bryant. So that's the thing. Before we get into the rest of the news, this is pinball card talk. So what's your most valued card talk? I haven't been through all my old ones yet, but not much. It's a ripoff. It's better winning the lottery than hitting. But right now, like, what was it, a year ago or something, one of the LeBron refractors or something sold for $1.8 million, I believe. $1.8 million for one card.
    52:49
    It's like this big storm, basketball especially right now. Because we had Kobe Bryant's death. We had this big, huge documentary on Michael Jordan. We've had COVID. Everybody's at home. They're going through their old stuff. This perfect storm together. Then we have the people that are our age that used to do that back in the day and now can afford to do that again. Then you had that. Then you get one of the biggest NBA rookie classes ever with Zion Williamson. All of that has merged into now, if you get a certain Zion rookie card this year signed with a patch, you're looking at $150,000 for that card, $400,000 for that card. And that's what people are doing. They're opening the pack hoping for that lottery ticket.
    53:31
    It's very exciting. Wow. All right, let's get back into pinball. Now, the hobby of pinball makes a hell of a lot more sense now, doesn't it? Yes. I can't wait to just open up boxes from manufacturers hoping that I get the all-apron signed CE Guns N' Roses. And I'm telling you right now, remember our discussion about that. Just remember that. That's all I'm saying. And then instead I get a WWE LE. Because the juices, creative juices are flowing now after dabbling into some of the trading card industry techniques. And it's coming for pinball. It's coming. All right, enough baseball card talk. Sorry about that, guys. Let's move forward and talk about some more pinball.
    54:15
    This is a more serious note. We had a huge loss in the pinball industry this past week. Chaz Siddiqui, a tech from Stern Pinball, passed away this last week. And there's a pin side thread on it. People have been talking about it on Facebook.
    54:34
    And we joke around on this podcast a lot. But this one has hit me really hard, Dennis. Have you ever talked to Chaz at all from Stern? Yeah. Yeah, I've only ever called Stern Tech Support once, and I'm almost certain he's the one who answered and walked me. He was very patient, very polite, explained my issue, and he walked me through the solution. He was right from the get-go, too, in terms of what it was, because I thought I wasn't explaining it very well. But he squeezed enough information out of me to figure out what my walking dead problem was and got me resolved. And I've known of him, because when a lot of people would do those which manufacturers better things, The one thing I remember often seeing is even people who weren't big fans of Stern's quality control, for example, often said that their tech support was top-notch and they usually named Chaz. I love Chaz, yeah. Yeah, he passed away. I remember always because I call him regularly I talk to him regularly And just love I could always count on Stern Pinball He going to be so so missed We've had some losses as I've been in the industry and the hobby a couple years now, a handful of years. We've had some losses, but I've not really been close to these individuals or known any of these individuals. But this one hurts because I knew Chaz, and he's a stand-up, terrific, so helpful, so patient guy. Because when it comes to pinball, the scariest thing is tech work and fixing stuff and not knowing if a node board's going to work. He would never make you feel worried. And I think that's just a reflection of who he was. So, yeah, that one's tough, seeing him pass away. He'll be missed by myself significantly. and my thoughts and prayers to his family and all his friends, but that one sucks real, real bad.
    56:34
    In other news, oh, we got some Deep Root news. Oh, that's interesting. Well, not really news per se, but I found it interesting, so I figured I'd add it here. So, you know, my desire to get into a pinball machine somehow, like not crawling into it. Yeah, I was going to say, you could probably, other than your big head, you could probably fit pretty well into a lot of these. I mean, cabinets are quite spacious. Maybe I will. No, I'd like to get on artwork or do some voice work. I want to get in there, right?
    57:08
    I finally have. It has happened. I'm in no way surprised that that is what you want. And maybe it's with my good old pal, Bobby Pinball, over at Deep Root. So listeners know that from the start, I've kind of, even into the Twip days, Twip podcast days, I've kind of given monikers to people and nicknames, right? And you always put them in my nicknames. Yeah, in no way never annoys people. Never. You say my nicknames are stupid. Well, guess what? They are. No, no, no. Most people call me Den Den. Oh, that's so fantastic. We got one to hit. So I got an email from Robert Mueller last, or we did. I think he emailed the Pinball Network. paraphrasing here, he said, Hey, Zach, just want to let you know that because of you, I now have the artists that are working on these pinball machines sneaking in Easter eggs of Bobby Pinball on the different titles.
    58:09
    Yes! This just happened. This is what happens when your words turn into a force for evil. A force for love. it's there it's happened he even sent us a picture of bobby pimble on a pin like his little easter egg it's almost it feels like a um a python angelo like under the apron little yeah right i get it a little quip or something but yeah he sent a picture and it just made my week hearing that so you're gonna see some little bitty easter eggs hiding there and there of bobby pimble the one he sent We can put it maybe on the Facebook page. But it's a plane flying by, and it has a banner behind it. And the banner reads, Eat It, Bobby Pinball.
    58:57
    God, I love it. I've made it, Dennis. You have. I've made it. Rob Nasty, Bobby Pinball, BP, are you with me? Thanks, buddy.
    59:10
    But where's your fucking games at? Good Lord. I'm still not going to cut you any slack. I want to see some games. I don't know, Dennis. to me, trending up this week may just be Zach Minney's nicknames.
    59:22
    No. I hope that Robert actually has shown you that Easter egg and then vetoes it and tells his artist to strip it. No, that's already happened to me once. Yeah. It would amuse me. I don't think I've... Did I tell the listeners that?
    59:38
    The Munsters one? Greg Bone and I were in the original Munsters playfield artwork. probably going to get a call after that one. Oops. Got pulled last minute. Damn. I didn't know. Yeah, we did. But there's still SDTM, the letters, hidden on the Munster's Pet Ball Machine. See if you can find it. I would have dropped the M and then kept your faces by that.
    60:06
    That's mean. I know. It is. Not seafood mean, but kind of mean. Well, let's get into it then. because it can't just be me training up this week.
    60:17
    It's not that audio too. You missed us last week. I don't blame you. No. One person did. I was trying to do an intro. Ah!
    60:30
    Market Trends! Oh, Jesus. We spent so much time on basketball cards. Let's go. Training up this week is a Black Knight Topper. I told you We were going to talk about it later, and we are going to talk about it now. Black Knight Toppers. They went into production, and guess what, people? They're done. Good luck. After this run of Black Knight Toppers, you're not going to see them produced anymore, so bye, bye, bye. Bye, bye, bye. If you're wanting to get you a Black Knight Topper, if you ever think you're going to own the game, note to self, buy that damn thing, and buy it quickly. You bought, like, the entire supply, too. I saw the photo. I did. See, this is such a dick move. Oh, man, I messaged her and I was like,
    61:16
    oh, I see the Black Knight toppers are getting made again. You are a topper scalper. That's what you are. Hey. A scalper?
    61:26
    I'm using the word loosely. I admit it. A scalper would sell for more than the price, which some dealers are. Act like I don't see you out there. No, I'm just $4.50 and $30 shipping. Get your Black Knight topper. If you want to resell it for $1,000, because that's what's going to be the value of them, that's why they're turning up this week within six months, that's going to be a $1,000 topper. Easy.
    61:52
    Put some money on it. White's turning up. Black Knight topper. I like the topper more than the game.
    62:00
    Is that mean? Can I say that? You can say what you want. You can like what you want. Also turning up this week is a little razzle-dazzle. You got your topper. Ooh, that's nice. But there's a new trend emerging. A new trend arises.
    62:15
    And it cannot be stopped. The force of this new trend will go into decades and pinball. It is powder-coated coin doors. You heard it here, y'all. Trending up this week is powder-coated coin doors. You know what I'm talking about, Dennis? Ah, yeah, I see. but technically they're already powder-coated. They're powder-coated with a standard black, so I don't know what you mean. That's redundant. I'm just saying that powder-coated coin does it.
    62:45
    That was you. Why? It didn't sound like me. Well, your southern impersonation of me doesn't sound like me either. Indiana isn't in the south, dipshit. Well, the south says it's not, but then the north says we're not southern. So what are we?
    62:59
    You just said the south says you're not southern and the north says we're not southern, so you said they both are in agreement. The north says we're not north. You know what I mean. I don't know where we're at in Indiana. Corn? You're in the Midwest.
    63:11
    Is it? Yes, it is. I don't get the whole Midwest. Turning up his powder coat of coin doors because as I'm getting all of my LE Stern coin doors redone, there's something missing. I look at this pinball machine. It's beautiful. It's got that awesome metallic powder coat. Right, JJP? Right, Stern? You guys do it up. But then you've got this big black coin door. No, no, no. Going forward, you're going to see all the LE owners. You're going to see a lot of them. They're going to say, I will not stand for this. I need a powder-coated coin door because it's cheap, you all. Matt at Back Alley Creations. Tell him I sent you, too. Maybe he'll give me a free coin door out of this. He will powder-coat your coin door. I think he even might have new ones. You only have to strip yours off to send it in first. Get a hold of him. Powder-coated coin doors. I'm going to put some pictures up of some of the powder-coated coin doors. Spooky gets it. They understand it. Hell, Medieval Manus Royal Edition, they understood it, but it's black, so it kind of blends in a little bit. But the powder-coated coin doors, that is the next big craze in pinball mods. Mark my word. Dennis, would you let me powder coat your coin door?
    64:26
    Do you know how? I'll get it done for you. I mean, I'm not anti-powder coat. Oh, so you're open to the idea of this emerging trend. I don't know if my TNA has a, it's just spooky. Does it have the powder coated? What do you have on the regular armor? Is it just the gray vein or the stainless?
    64:49
    Stainless, yeah. Yeah, you don't want a stainless powder. Nah, keep that black. Yeah. Nah, keep that black. Yeah, it sounds like a lot of work. I probably wouldn't do it, but I don't mind how it looks. Oh, it looks so good. I like how you flexed and had to mention all your LEs and getting them all done. Well, my thought is it's just unfinished.
    65:08
    I'm just looking at my collection. I'm like, I see the Rick and Morty there with the beautiful coin door that's powder coated. It's unfinished. How do I look at my Stranger Things or my Elvira and that beautiful powder coat and not have the coin door done? Did you get the code updated on Rick and Morty? I just had to bring that up. You brought it up. No, it's broke. I had to send this CPU in, and I'm hoping like hell they send one back. No, it's been down. No, they're going to send a sock instead. What? I just sent you a CPU back. I don't know what's going on. It makes me sad. I just want to play with him. Let's give him a driver board instead. This dipshit will never know the difference. I don't know. Just powder coat it, and he'll be blinded by the powder. Blinded by the powder. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know what's going on with that. See, I was rolling good. You always try to flick my balls during pinball market trends. I don't understand it. It's the one highlight of my week. And you bring shit up like that. You know what? We'll just go into trending down then. Since you didn't down earlier. Here we go. Trending down this week is being interrupted during market trends by this guy.
    66:16
    Oh, of course that. Turn me down. I don't care. I don't have any feelings. Trending down this week is trying to be edgy by posting a rumor on social media or a website then taking it down shortly after. You already mentioned that earlier. I know, but it's formal training down. Damn it. Or how about this one? Training down!
    66:35
    See, it went down. Down! Yeah, I know how sound works. I took biology in college. Oh, shit. Human analytics.
    66:44
    Speed of sound and light. Starting a new podcast and saying you didn't join, quote, a network or a group because you just want to stay independent, right? Kerry Hardy. Yep. I'm talking about you. I'll give you a little bit of the limelight. Here, step on stage, Kerry. It's nice up here, right? I know. It feels good. Lights are a little bright. I get it. But this is the big leagues. You're going to start a podcast? Last episode, he's been poking people, having fun. So I'll poke back here, Bear. He said, he made it sound like he said, well, I didn't join a network, guys. Interesting choice of word. I didn't join a network or a group because I just want to stay independent. I want to not be hindered by anybody else's force, even though there's none of that here. Well, just to clear the air here. That's fine. But to clear the air, in order to join a network, you kind of have to be asked to join a network.
    67:47
    Dennis, that's how that works. You can't join something if you're not asked to join it. I didn't want to play on the varsity football team anyway.
    67:57
    I don't want to be on a football team with all those school kids. No, thanks. We got a freshman team, maybe. We can play on the freshman team. So, carry on the podcast. Carry pinball.
    68:08
    Carry hardy. You already have a Bobby pinball. You can't do carry pinball. That's just silly. Carry hardy's nickname is Care Bear. Yeah. It's called the Hardy Pinball Podcast. Yep. I'm just having fun with you, carry. But, yeah. Just wanted to put that out there It made it sound like we asked him And he graciously declined No, I don't think we've Had any recent Since Jesse Bays podcast That we added I'm a little edgy today I think there will be complaints About this episode Where's the edge at baby Little edge, you want a little more edge Well how about you get a deal Sweet week. What the fuck? Oh, wrong segment. Sorry. No.
    68:56
    That's the, uh, no, not deal of the week. Buy, buy, buy! Deal of the week this week is Canadian Rick and Morty that he's selling already.
    69:04
    No, joking. That is not a deal of the week. He's trying to sell it up to $13,000. I don't think it's a horrible price. It's a shitty price, but he does have buttercups. So, I'm not shitting on the price. I'm just shitting on that man in general. Oh, no. Deal of the week this week is a Walking Dead LE. This can be found on Pennside in Shepherdstown, West Virginia. Have you been to Shepherdstown? I have not. I've not been to Western Virginia. I've not been to West Virginia, probably because I haven't taken a country road. Oh, yeah. Up in the hills of Dub V. I've been to West Virginia. That was a song reference that you didn't get. No, who sang it? I don't know. Country Roads Take Me Home? Country roads take me home to a place where I belong. Okay, so you didn't know that. West Virginia. Yeah. The name of the song is actually Take Me Home. Take me home. Yeah, I don't know who sings it, though.
    70:08
    I've not been to West Virginia. But what was the reference? John Denver. John Denver's full of shit. Yeah. And the name of the song is Take Me Home, Country Roads. But yeah, it's a song about West Virginia. That's what I like. Maybe you and I can take a visit to West Virginia. What do you say?
    70:30
    Let me guess. No, I have no intention on getting in a vehicle, much less going to West Virginia. I hadn't thought about starting my career in coal mining. Is that what predominantly is around there? That's what they're associated with. Huh.
    70:42
    I'd wear the outfit. Mermen. That's what I think I would call it. Zoolander should have had a pen. I would buy a Zoolander pin.
    70:53
    Not a Zoolander 2. When you get to put your name in the score, it has to say, he's so hot right now.
    71:03
    That's perfect. And if you write in Hansel, it goes, Hansel, Hansel. Center for S. I just want to call out the call out of all call outs. Forget Iron Maiden call outs. The best call out ever would be, you can derelict my balls. I guess you can derelict my balls, Capitan.
    71:27
    Sorry. There needs to be a breakdance fighting multiball. Oh, man. I can derelict my own balls. Thank you very much. That would be the greatest. Yeah. And then there should be one of the modes have to be walk off. Get Billy Zane to do all the narration and call out. Yep. The different looks that Zoolander gives are the different modes. Blue steel.
    71:50
    Oh, man. Magnum. They're elite. But what about male models? The wizard mode would have to be killing the Malaysian prime minister. And then, of course, when you get halfway to the wizard mode, that's when you play through the relax song. Man, you're just calling for those music. You're calling for the music. Well, no, I'm just saying we're working the pen. I don't want you to sing it.
    72:22
    I think one of the ramps needs to look like a piano key next time. How many times have you seen Zoolander, Dennis? I own it, so I've seen it a lot. Yes.
    72:31
    Finally, a comedy film that you've seen that's good. Okay, this can work. This relationship we've got brewing can work. Where was that? The Walking Dead LE. Well, West Virginia. He's in West Virginia. That's right. The completist is the one selling it. I think it's seen some plays, y'all. I'm not going to lie there. It's seen some plays. But $6,400 for an LE Walking Dead. Buy, buy, buy! That's ridiculous. He was asking $6,700, which was a deal in and of itself, even willing to trade towards an Elvira. America's Most Haunted or Scared He Put Stiffy into the horror themes. Okay. Into the horror themes in West Virginia. Now, I would question going to this person's house to pick this up. Better go with the shipping option. Getting the Hills Have Eyes certified. Yeah. I'm not feeling great about this. Especially looking at the guy's avatar. Eh. Don't think I'd show up in person on this one. Maybe that's why it's so cheap. But I'd still buy, buy, buy all day long for $6,400. And we've got to bring it back. A deals of the what in Bigfoot's dick's name?
    73:45
    Somebody said they didn't like that call out. WTF. Deals of the WTF. We've got a heavy metal meltdown. I wish you could see this, Dennis. It's on Pennside. Out of Cincinnati. Sniper 2099. We'll get you. God, shooting it. That's when I stopped playing games. It's the Goldeneye era. Yeah, the snipers all the time. You know what they do nowadays in your silly video game stuff? Yeah, snipers can be pretty annoying. Everyone thinks that they've just got this insane accuracy, so you get half the teams are snipers, and it just sucks. Remember that game Silent Scope, the arcade?
    74:21
    Yeah, but I don't remember playing it. Oh, you look through the scope, and there's an LCA. Heavy Metal Meltdown, really cool game. I get it. The price, $1,250? $50, that's a damn good price, especially if it's fully functioning. And it is. It's fully working. And the guy's willing to drive 300 miles. Here's why it's a WTF. And he's even making fun of this game himself. It's been extremely wore out, the play field. And it's been touched up, all caps, very badly. So bad the seller says, this was an epic touch-up fail. I mean epic.
    74:58
    So, granted, I don't think that he did the touch-ups. But if you look at this game, it is almost as if Dennis Creasel painted this with his left hand. That's how bad this looks. It is horrible. It looks like a mashed potato face. It's almost like a mosaic. Somebody came in there with their crayons and clear-coated over crayon. I wonder if you can clear-coat over crayon. This thing is... is even the insert, everything on this play field had been redone. Why not just shave it all down, Dennis? Shave the whole damn thing down. You don't even need art at this point if what you do touch-up-wise is that bad. I want to know who the artist is. You know what? For the artist of this, I almost want this game because it's so bad. I would keep it like that. I would preserve it in eight coats of triple-dick clear. I want this game now. I just talked myself into it. But if I can find the artist of this game, I will give you a free prize courtesy of flipping out pinball. A good prize, too. A box of Shasta. Yes. If you can prove that you did the artwork on this heavy metal, truly meltdown. The fucking dude's face is melting down the side of the play field. It's horrible. And I don't mean to make fun of you. I do, so I want to reimburse you by paying you off in the form of like a shaker motor, a banner, something, because that's how bad this art is. I want to know who this artist is. Man, this is edgy, Zach, today. Yeah, it's mean. You know, I'm left-hand dominant. I did not know that. Damn it. So that was an extra burn because you're like, you know, I am right-handed, though.
    76:47
    What do you mean you're left-hand dominant, then? I learned to write with my right hand. Man, if you couldn't be any more weird. So you're right-handed, but you're left-handed dominant. Yes. That's a, what do they call that, oxymoron? Well, it's not, especially in the older days, it wasn't that uncommon to get lefties to learn to do the right-handed. It's a right-handed world. Dennis, there are some things I do with both hands.
    77:14
    Yes. I'm sure. Install your above-ground pools. That was a second masturbation joke. My apologies. All right, let's do this. I tried to get a bit from it.
    77:23
    Speaking of pin size, let's do... Oh, I've had a lot of juicy honorees this week, but we're only going to pick out one. Let's do a Dick of the Week. Oh, Dick of the Week this week, courtesy of Party Pinball Podcast.
    77:43
    No, it's not. It's so mean. All right, it's Delt 31. This guy has got more Dick of the Week awards than anybody in our podcast history. The Adult 31. He's talking about, on Pennside, his love of the Canadas Pinball Podcast. He's the only truth out there. He's our savior. Oh, man, if you really knew. But he says something. Every time Canadas brought up on Pennside, we're brought up as well for some reason by proxy. I don't know. When I say we, I really mean me. But I'm throwing you in so it doesn't feel as bad. You did reference that podcast, like, what, five times this episode? Yeah, I'm going all in. Which the podcast isn't around anymore, is it? I mean, you already said it isn't. Hashtag discontinued. Yeah. Well, people, I mean, that's not unusual for podcasts. They go away. Remember Twip Podcast? You couldn't even make it two years. Yeah, but the heart of it's still in there. Go on with your DOTW. Well, that's still the same as Deal of the Week, too. Actually, all your stuff is D-O-O-T-W. It's all D-O-O-T-W. What am I going to do? Oh, it is. Everything in Reboot is the same. How f***ing lazy are you? Couldn't you come up with a new hacker? Go on. All right, so here's Del's quote. He was talking about the new Kerry Pinballs podcast, but then his morning, I can't believe it's a pinball podcast, and he had to throw us in. He says, quote, not surprised. Let's read between the lines here. There is an insane amount of jealousy from TPN considering they couldn't even taste number one with Kaneda in the running. And any attempt to say they're just joking around and having fun. Dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. Five dots. I usually go with the three dot ellipses.
    79:24
    Well, if you believe that, you're officially gullible. They know what's going on. I listen to both and all considering you have to take Zach to Zach, period. Still a podcast that is enjoyable. Oh, nice. Thanks. Kaneda wipes them apart though and all the others as well dot dot dot dot but you don't need to hear that from me what is this the fucking reading rainbow uh LaVar Burton but don't take my word for it anybody get that reference I fucking love you that's why Chris wiped the floor with them in the awards and they know that first place was for grabs when Kaneda gave it to them I'll listen to Hardy though why not okay I hadn't seen this comment. I don't normally bother to weigh in on the drama, especially when it's directed at you.
    80:12
    I don't – I guess I kind of understand – what? Don't start a new game. I guess I kind of understand why people that aren't in podcasting get this impression like that we all do this because of the Twippy thing. Yeah. It's very odd to me, though. who wins the favorite podcast Twippy is not relevant to why I podcast TPN was not I was not approached by you to get involved with TPN to win a Twippy in fact we have had discussions internally to formally ask for us to not be allowed to win Twippies but that of course runs into some issues of we've got people doing it's completely creatively independent as you sort of noted when you were talking about the network jab and the trending down part, that we don't, I mean, we get, we've had criticism of TPN shows that Zach and I don't work on, and we pass that criticism along, but unless someone does something, you know, so appalling that we need to drop them, we don't, we never censor them, though. Just a place to hang out and join. And so, it's not, you know, the issue would be, is it, would it be fair for us to say, sorry, Silver Bar Chronicles, you can't go for a Twippy because we've decided to say We don't want TPN stuff to be eligible, but we discussed it because the point of TPN isn't to win a bunch of awards. No. I like being recognized, but – Well, who doesn't like recognition? I'm not pushing for an award. But, yeah, I have – well, I didn't see this post. I have seen others that seem to really, truly believe that the whole podcasting scene is like this – like shitting each other trying to win Twippies. Twippies might matter to some of the podcasters. Most podcasters really don't feel that strongly about it. And it's not something – I go weeks without talking about Twippie. It's just not – We couldn't taste number one. I don't mean that in words of badness. People don't believe that we are just taking this Twippy award. That's a little inaccurate, too. Well, I mean, because Jeff released the numbers from last year, and special win lit plus Twip podcast combined would have had enough to have number one. Yeah, look, Jeff probably doesn't want me releasing this, but for you Canada lovers out there, I'm sorry. Look, I know what the votes are. I've seen the votes. Canada didn't win by that much. It's not that big of a deal. Every time Kaneda would always say that to me, you know what I said? Or Jacknade or whoever.
    82:45
    Guess what, guys? I helped create the fucking award. Here's your piece of plastic. Do you feel better? I hate having an ego with it, but who cares? I have fun because I get to hang out with you, Dennis. So when I see comments like this, I'm having fun with this dick of the week thing. But it's cute. I like it. I understand. I just want to say that I do disagree with what dealt dealt 31 statement that that you're officially gullible. If you if you think that this is in some way driven about jealousy and involves the Canada I did not Yeah I did not listen to Canada podcast I used to I dropped it before around episode 100 I think because it wasn for me And his success is his success and that fine It's not, I'm not interested in that. We don't have conflict. It's like, we're not arguing with the Loser Kid Pinball podcast. No. And this flipping podcast, and they're not TPing podcasts. It's like, it's not like an us or them thing. It's like, it's just, it is. We're having fun.
    83:47
    I listen to, I don't listen to all the podcasts. I don't have enough time. I didn't know about Terry's. That was never one of them. If I can ever – I know you do. To see who I've got to finish this Twippy Awards. I just can't wedge them in because they already consume so much time. But it's – yeah, I just – so I'm not sad, I guess, but I'm a little disappointed that people think that maybe the motivation for those that are involved with TPN was to try and one-up someone. Chris wipes the floor with us, and we know that. so your dick of the week award goes to wait a minute hold up what's that uh-oh sorry listener i'm gonna have to rescind that that dick of the week uh for dealt because if anybody has been following pin side dealt 31 has been working on this new like pinball browser code for jurassic park where he's changing not just the audio but the video he's putting the movie clips in there into a custom mix.
    84:49
    It is one of the most exciting things to me and probably ever since LCD came out, period. It is so well done. He gave a little bitty video sneak peek of it on Pinside. You'll have to find.
    85:06
    Phenomenal, phenomenal stuff. So you know what, Del? You can shoot on me all you want as long as I get this video code because it is so, so great. I cannot wait for it. So sorry. I was wrong. Wrong. I was wrong. You're not the dick of the week. Love never dies guy is. This guy said, quote, every time I see bye bye bye, I think deuce, deuce, deuce. Well, guess what? Love never dies.
    85:31
    Be original. Deuce, deuce, deuce. Really? I would have went with like, um, chill, chill, chill. I think sigh, sigh, sigh, because it kind of rhymes. Sigh, sigh, sigh instead of bye bye. That's why you play the big time. And I sigh a lot when I do it. Deuce, deuce, deuce almost is a reflection of why you don't know that I'm making fun of myself when I say bye, bye, bye. Bye, bye, bye. It's a tongue-in-cheek. I'm embracing me being dealer, so I'm making fun of myself. It's relatively obvious, but not everyone's going to get it. He really thinks I'm trying to get people to bye, bye, bye. So, I don't know. Poor choice of deuce, deuce, deuce. I don't think that's as good as it could have been there. So, love, never dies guy. You get to pick the week. Enjoy. All right, Dennis, enough of that. Let's get out of Deals of the Week, Trends of the Week. Let's get out of it. That was your pinball market trends. Man, what would happen if I took a month off? Oh, Dennis, you want to play? Oh, no. I was going to have another segment, but it's a Dr. John quiz again. Let's feedback on the last one. Whoa, atrocious. I still sometimes in the blackness I remember what people wrote to me cold sweats I used to be shifting your head on a pillow no no no those lines are from Dr. Frankenstein not the monster and all of a sudden you hear from beside your bed hello there mate Dr. John's lying to you he snuck in Oh, my God. He's got another mind-fucked pinball quiz for us, the sequel.
    87:18
    Full transparency, he did send us a second quiz, and we just said no. But we're going to give him a shot here because this is somewhat novel, and I like this idea. So Dr. John has a quiz. It's going to be based on catchphrases. Dennis, do you collect pinball flyers? No, I don't. Some people do. I know, but I don't. so I don't know. So pinball flyers are a thing. Some people collect, they've made them all the way back, I don't know when the first pinball flyer was. At least through the 60s. I think the wood rails have them. Like, that's what I use on Eclectic Gamers Podcast, when we do Build-A-Bank, the images I put up on Facebook for the voting, they're always the flyers. That's right, yeah. So a lot of people like the pinball flyers. Each pinball flyer, a lot of them kind of have catchphrases on them for increasing the sales or just sticking in your heads forever. Dr. John is posing this quiz to talk all about catchphrases. What he's going to do, he says the top 100 games of all time have catchphrases on their flyers so that you can identify the pinball machine by these phrases. Now, what he's going to do is he's going to give us a pinball phrase that can be found on these pinball flyers. We've got to name the game in which it comes from. That sounds like fun. Okay, I get it. So it's not crazy like you did last time where it's like, yeah, but Leonardo DiCaprio once had an affair with such and such, and she was on this. Who listened to this in their car? No, none of that. Two points if we get the actual game from that catchphrase. Why not one point? It's great that you asked. You get one point, Dennis, if you get it after a clue that he will provide. So, so far, he has not messed up the directions. I can't say the same for the last time he tried to do this. So basically 10 games, 20 points maximum, no negative points if you are wrong. So I guess we can – oh, damn it, John. So can we guess the first time? Do we have two guesses per then and we get two points if we guessed it based on the first one? How would we know?
    89:23
    That's what I'm saying. We wouldn't know what the answer is whether to pass or to – Until the end. Because we've not – I think we either go for it or you have to pass to hear the hint.
    89:34
    Okay. All right. Let's try the first one. Okay. Okay, so the first one says Galaxy Class Pinball from Williams. I think that's the question.
    89:50
    That's probably the line from the flyer. Galaxy Class Pinball from Williams. Okay, my thoughts are Williams made, and we'll take turns going through our guesses, but my thought is Williams made a lot of space-themed stuff. That's what I'm getting from Galaxy here.
    90:09
    Galaxy class. All right, Dennis, I'll go first. I have no clue, so I want a hint. I want a clue. Yeah, I want the hint too. Okay. So we're going for a possible one point each, and the hint is, surely you don't need a clue. Thanks, John. But if you did, Steve Ritchie.
    90:29
    Okay. I've got my answer. what was the flyer the pre-hint thing again Galaxy Class pinball from Williams and then the hint is Steve Ritchie we've locked in our answers I'm going to guess I have no clue but if I'm hearing Williams I'm hearing Galaxy Space stuff and I'm hearing Steve Ritchie I'm going to guess Star Trek Next Gen yeah and I'm going to go with Stellar Wars oh shit did he do Stellar Wars yeah fuck okay let's see here answer oh I was right Star Trek Next Generation yeah I wonder Galaxy of Glass I don't even remember speaking that flyer but when it said Williams and I wondered if they do WMS by then or not so I didn't admit it was older it felt like it was going to be older I'm glad I didn't know Stellar Wars okay let's go to the next one number two the greatest fantasy of all time is now an epic pinball for all ages Whoa, what a tagline. We're going to have Dennis go first, but the greatest fantasy of all time is now an epic pinball for all ages.
    91:41
    I will guess. Oh, hold up. Then hold up. If you're going to guess, let me see if I want to guess or pass.
    91:48
    Okay, the greatest fantasy of all time is now an epic pinball. So I'm hearing epic. I'm hearing fantasy. I'm hearing greatest fantasy. What is the greatest fantasy? I think I know, but I'm going to, since you're submitting a guess, I'm going to play it safe, try to build my lead, and I'm going to go for the clue.
    92:11
    So here's the question, Dennis, because John doesn't lay this out. I'm going to read the clue off to the listener. Can you then change your answer? Or do you have to lock it in now? Or how does that work? Or do I just, see, I'm so confused. He messes these things up every time. I think the only issue is that normally I would go ahead and say what I think it is. But I could say it then based on the clue, even though I didn't know it.
    92:38
    Yeah. Yeah, that's true. But, I mean, technically on the last one, I could have said Star Trek after I heard you say it. Oh, that is true.
    92:48
    Okay. Let's just do honesty then. Oh, God. I want to tell you at least what I was thinking, just so you wouldn't think I'm repeating. Sure. I would I was if I had to guess well I'm not if I had to guess I'd say Lord of the Rings but I have no clue and that is my guess Lord of the Rings so yeah pretty hint I'm saying Lord of the Rings okay that's kind of where my mind is going let's see what the hint is Clue Stern 2003 okay alright I'm going to go Lord of the Rings as well and it is Lord of the Rings okay so two to two you caught up there number three on the cutting edge of pinball design for a sharper profit picture or Or, if that's too hard, another clue.
    93:29
    Well, now, John, is this the clue or is this the... Why does he even have to do these quizzes? So, number three is on the cutting edge of pinball design for a sharper profit picture. I'm already thinking old game. But he also says, or if that's too hard, another clue. So, am I supposed to go to the clue as part of the original two-point? I think so, if it's all on that same slide. It's all on the same slide, yeah. Then, yeah. Then do both. Maybe pulling two things from the flyer. Okay, so it also says Unleash the Fury.
    94:00
    Oh. Okay, I've got my answer. I hear profit. Picture I'm always thinking, okay, that's an older game that they got on location and are trying to make money. And then Unleash the Fury gave it away.
    94:13
    Yeah, I'm going to need the hint. Okay. So do I guess then? I'm going to guess Swords of Fury. All right. The hint is, there is no hint. I guess that was our hint because then it showed me the game. So, do you want to lock in a guess based on cutting edge of pinball design for a sharper profit picture? Or if that's too hard, Unleash the Fury? Yeah, I guess I'd say Swords of Fury because it's Fury as in this. Yeah, that's all I can think of too. So, the answer is Swords of Fury. Okay. Now, I'm only going to give myself one point because I got both hints. So, Dr. John, three to three. Number four. So far, John, you're failing. It's fast, it's furious, and it fights back. Ooh, I've heard that before. I have too. It's fast, it's furious, and it fights back. Sounds like a Steve Ritchie game.
    95:11
    I am going to guess. Wow, you're guessing. My thoughts, if I'm just verbalizing my thoughts, Fast and Furious fights back. I'm thinking something out of the Black Knight series.
    95:23
    And if it fights back, I'm not going to go Black Knight 2000. I'm not going to go the initial one because it's too new. We didn't even know that this was a thing.
    95:35
    If I had to guess, I'd... Okay. What's your guess then? My guess is Black Knight 2000. Oh, you're going there. You know what? just for shits and giggles. I'm not going to look at the clue. I'm guessing Sword of Rage. Or Sword of... Okay. Yeah, Sword of Rage. I don't need no hint. The hint would have been Williams 1988. The answer is F-14 Tomcat. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, it is a Ritchie, so you... Yep, it's fast, it's furious, and it fights back. Yeah, it does fight back. Holy crap. We should have probably known that from the Chronicles episode. Damn it. Because I think you read that now that I'm... Yeah, but... They were at all of them. Number five. Tie to three. A rendezvous with Pinball Destiny.
    96:20
    That doesn't give you much. A rendezvous with Pinball Destiny. I'm going first. When I'm hearing rendezvous, listener, I'm thinking a rendezvous. I'm seeing you again. It's being brought back. A rendezvous. Hello. How's it going? A rendezvous with Pinball Destiny. What is Pinball Destiny? Pinball Destiny. I'm going to go Black Knight. No, no, no. I need a clue. I do need the clue. I was going to go Black Knight 2000, but I need a clue. Clue is Williams 91.
    96:52
    Bronte, Food, Destiny. Those are very regal, royal things. I'm going to go, I don't know if Black Knight 2000. I don't think that was 91.
    97:02
    I think it was like 89. 91, Destiny. I'm going to go Black Knight 2000. and what's your answer, Dennis? I'm still thinking Bride of Pinbot. You're going Bride of Pinbot? Yeah. The answer is William Space Station.
    97:24
    91 was Space Station? Yeah, it fits. I mean, System 11. I didn't know that. Hold up. I've got to look that up now.
    97:36
    It's from the flyer. Yeah, hold up. Hold up. That's why I had to check. Because Williams Space Station was made in 87.
    97:49
    Listen, Mike, you just fucking stuck at making quizzes. What can I say? I'm like, do you think John's trolling us? Because 91, the only options from Williams were Hurricane, Terminator 2, and Bride of Pinbot. Yeah. I love that I just got a text message from someone. He's asking for a particular product. This is the stuff that I deal with every day. And he says, hey, I'll take the, and he marks the product, tell me what he wants. He says, no one has them in stock, so I'd rather order from you.
    98:23
    Wait a minute. Settling with John. That could be a new segment. Settling. It makes no sense. No one has them in stock, so I would. Well, it sounds like by default you're stuck with me. I'd rather order from you. You remind me of Joel's Just Another Pinballer. He's like, yeah. So I got a great price quote from Zach, but I went ahead and checked with my local distributor too. With Trent still.
    98:47
    And then I was like, I probably should go ahead and use Zach. He has been pretty good to me. All right, number six. Number six. King of Rock and Rage. Oh, no. Why do all catchphrases on flyers sound like Steve Ritchie games? King of Rock and Rage. Would Rock and Roll and Rage, Rock and Roll and Rage, King, King Ritchie. Do I go first or second here because I'm putting in Sword of Rage?
    99:17
    I would go first this time, and I need the hint, so you go ahead and lock yours. I'm locking in Black Knight Sword of Rage. The hint is Stern 1978. The clue again was King of Rock and Rage. Iron Maiden. Oh. Locking it? Yeah. I think you're right.
    99:38
    You're wrong. The answer is Nugent by Stern. Oh, my God. That's why you're right for sure. Iron Maiden is more modern than that, I fear. Oh, my gosh.
    99:50
    Yeah, it wasn't Nugent. I think. I completely forgot that Nugent was Stern. What is this? Jessica J's Pinball Adventures? Shit. Nugent? Really?
    100:02
    Oh, my God. We're bad. Yeah, I know. Well, when I first heard King, I was thinking Elvis, actually. And then, but I was like, Rage, though. No one thought of Elvis as Rage, except when it went on to Fried Peanut Butter and Banana Sandwich. He raged on those. Number seven. The Age of Change.
    100:23
    Of course, I'm not going to note that one. The Age of Change. I'm going to have to... Yeah, I need the hint as well.
    100:31
    The Winning Combination. The Age of Change. The Winning Combination. I've got a guess. I do too. My guess is Safecracker. Same. Safecracker. You're going with Safecracker? Yeah. The answer is Safecracker. We got it right. Whew. Okay. That's a four. I would have felt bad if we got that one wrong. No, it's Combination is the only thing that can come up as a safe. Mm-hmm. Okay. Tie, 4-4. Number eight. It ain't just any plain old silver ball. I'll need the hint. I'll take the hint as well. The clue is, or the hint is, it's the fastest moving pinball ever, Stern 1980. So the first one was, it ain't just any plain old silver ball. and the clue was it's the fastest moving pinball ever Stern 1980 I'll go with Cheetah I'm going to go with Pinball by Stern the answer Quicksilver Pinball I knew was too old I thought so too but Cheetah's are fast Quicksilver plays into the silver I can see that that's a good answer Okay, so that was Quicksilver. Do you think Quicksilver gets remade? Rethemed? With the Beatles treatment. I don't think they just straight up reuse it.
    102:03
    You know, I've never played it. The center bank's too atypical for a wide room. Well, a sweepable bank. I think they want to keep having that because that's the most popular thing about Quicksilver. Yeah, but contemporary drop targets don't sweep. They clunk. They may be. Yeah, put some grease on them. They'll make it the single bar target. Yeah. Single bar drop.
    102:30
    Oh, everyone would be so pissed. I hope they do it. Single bar drop. Please do that. All the drops are replaced with single bar stand-ups. Mono drop target bar.
    102:41
    It's $8,000. They can go around and explain just how expensive those bar stand-ups are. That's good. See, that's a classic joke of the episode here. Oh, man. Are we done with this game yet? Number nine. Two more. So we're tied at four. You go first this time. The clue is, come on in and pound a few. Oh, God.
    103:09
    Could I go for the guess? Come on in and pound a few? I could. But I'm going to go. We're too close to the score. I'm going to go for the clue, but I have a guess. I'm going to guess now he's going for it champion pub that would have been my guess for what it's worth the clue is Bally 1998 nicely done this I'm going to go for champion pub as well the answer is champion pub ok so you got two there I got one so 6-5 with the last item at least it's close the ultimate mind game what is Dr. John's pinball quizzes. The ultimate mind game. So, this is a big deal here. You go first or I go first? I go first this time. Okay. This is the big decision here, Dennis. I need to pass. He's passing. I could guarantee a tie or a win with a correct guess here in the first part. No, I'm going to have to go for a clue as well, hoping that you... No, because the clue is going to give it away, and I'll have no shot. Not if it's like the wrong year. Yeah, but I've got no guess on the ultimate mind game. I just can't. What is the mind game? Magic-based stuff.
    104:29
    Mind game. Don't play mind games with me, TX Sector. The ultimate, hold up. What about Johnny Mnemonic?
    104:40
    The ultimate mind game. This is going to burn me. I'm going to go for the hint. But something tells me it's Johnny Mnemonic. All right, go for the hint.
    104:49
    Clue. Fuck! Williams, 1995. Yeah, I'm going to go with Johnny Mnemonic. The answer is Johnny Mnemonic, son of a bitch. Why did I know that from the Ultimate Mind Game? I've seen that flyer. No, it was. I hadn't thought of it initially, but yeah, because he loads the data into a brain. I haven't. That's the whole plot. I could have taught you. You could have. I hate you, Dr. John. And that was Dr. John's catchphrase pinball flyer game. Yeah. Right into the pinballnetwork.gmail.com. Dr. John, explain your space station hint. Yeah, I don't get that one. That's when the USS All-Flies went into space. Re-released it. Yeah, re-released it.
    105:35
    All right, Dennis, get your suitcases. Let's pack this thing up for the week. We're going to leave the studio. We're done. You got the lights? Mm-hmm. Turn off my boom box over there. I'm going to turn off your echo feature.
    105:49
    Thank you. If you could turn off my dancing cactus, it would be much appreciated. My LED lights, Penn Stadiums, turn those off.
    106:01
    You don't have anything on in your desk. I have a lamp. I'm staying here with one little desk lamp on. Why do you have an abacus? a reminder if you're not following the pinball network on facebook please do yourself a favor and do so and youtube because we got so many videos over there twitch twitch.tv slash pinball network we're on the twitter now we're on the instagram now the gram we're on the db website we're on it all baby we're still on like page 3 on db what do we need more reviews for that or what? The only reason I do this podcast, I'm not going to lie, is for the Twippy and for the DB. That's it. That's the only reason I do it. Hey, that's like that person you turned it down because the DB is the douchebag. The dude.
    106:53
    That's what he was referencing. Was your obsession with the DB? Yeah, maybe that's it. Yep. So, yeah, follow us there. Email us at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. You can visit the website the pinball network.net if you would like to twitch stuff we got some cool stuff coming up there Dennis where can they reach you at if they have no desire to reach you on the pinball network to reach me yes they can always email eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com that's the other show I do or go over to eclecticgamers.com and it'll point you to all our social media very nice build a bank's over huh or you can do one more we'll do one more under the regular rules but we didn't feel like doing it on the last episode. Oh, that little hint? The regular rules.
    107:43
    Some people have written in with suggestions on modifications. Don't give it away. Well, I'm not, but I'm just saying. We've had people all throughout commenting on things they'd like to see different, and I have some other thoughts as well. I haven't decided on anything yet. The only way you're going to find out is tuning in to the Eclectic Gamers podcast. You can reach me at straight down the middle of pinball show video series on YouTube at sbtmpinball at gmail.com. kind of a reformatting of that coming soon. That's why we're taking a break right now. So we've got that coming up. And if you're ready to buy a brand new pinball machine, contact us at Flippin' Out Pinball. My wife Nicole and I would be happy to earn your business and not only earn your business but to keep your business by providing exceptional customer service help and assistance. And we've got some cool shit to buy. And remember, if you can't find something somewhere else, don't go around in metal. Just call Zach and settle.
    108:42
    Don't go around in metal. Zach at FlippinOutPinball.com or 812-457-9711. I warned you all. Black Knight toppers. They're done making them. We still have, I think we've got a couple. Star Wars toppers. They're done making them. We still have a couple. All right, Dennis, for episode 25, that's a wrap. Catch you on the magnet. And always practice safe, pinball. and a soft reboot up.
    109:09
    No, honey, I didn't turn up early. I can do this. So long, everybody. You know what actually bugs me is when they do it in writing, they spell it D-I-N. Yeah, right? Yes, that bugs me too. This is like, what the? If you're going to do it, at least do it right. And I don't want you doing it at all. But if you're going to, yeah. They just spell it like you do for dog dinner. Nope, nope. That's not what it is. But that's how a lot of people spell it. Thanks to you. It's like when people say Zach Meany. I'm like, yeah, you're Meany. No, it's like men, but you add a Y. Many.
    109:51
    Pronounce it M-A-N-Y. Many. There are many people that are awesome, but none as awesome as Zach and Dennis. Zach and Din Din. Din Din and many. Often mispronounced, but never did. Din Din and Min Min. Men, men. Men, men, men, men, men, men, men, men, men. See, that's what I get there.
    110:13
    It's not even congestion. I don't know what it is. Well, it could be an allergy. Like a slight burn behind the eyes and the nose.
    110:22
    Might be a tumor. Pretty mild. It's not a tumor. Oh, name that movie. Do you know that movie? Yes, Kindergarten Cop. Yes!
    110:32
    Hey, Jack. How are you? A question, do you ever get in Stern's Indiana Jones on trade? Just checking, I'm interested in one. Oh, my God. Hey, Zach, if I gave you $4,000, would you just come to my house and light me on fire?
    111:03
    You wanna come Come