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Episode 285: Laura Fraley

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·42m 29s·analyzed·Nov 1, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Laura Fraley on competitive pinball, tournament directing, and Quarantopia.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews Laura Fraley, a Virginia-based competitive pinball player, tournament director, and community organizer. They discuss her tournament directing experience, rules expertise, competitive play philosophy, the Quarantopia pandemic-era selfie league she created, her work with the Richmond Pinball Collective, and advanced pinball techniques like tap passing and drop catching.

Key Claims

  • Quarantopia attracted 2,700 selfies and became MatchPlay's largest high score tournament in the platform's history

    high confidence · Laura states directly: 'We had something like 2,700 selfies. It was the largest ever high score tournament on MatchPlay in MatchPlay's history.'

  • Laura did not drop catch in competitive play until this interview discussion

    high confidence · Laura: 'There are a bunch of videos of me in competitions. You'll never see a drop catch ever by me in competition.'

  • Richmond Pinball Collective operates with very limited COVID capacity: one volunteer and six members per two-hour shift

    high confidence · Laura: 'We have one volunteer and six members per shift, and we do two-hour shifts during our open hours.'

  • Jeff Teolis asked Laura to be on Pinball Profile over a year prior, and she declined at Pimburg

    high confidence · Laura confirms: 'You asked me at Pinnberg... right after... we were walking and all of a sudden you're like you want to be on the podcast right now'

  • Quarantopia expanded to 15 different countries during the pandemic league

    medium confidence · Laura: 'But he did support me, which was great... it spread to, I think, 15 different countries.'

  • Laura learned tap passing on Wizard (an EM game) before other games

    high confidence · Laura: 'I think the first game I ever tap passed on was Wizard, oddly enough, because it's an EM. So it's a little bit more difficult to tap pass on.'

  • Josh Sharp's ICR (Insider Connected Ratings) was influenced by or inspired by Quarantopia

    medium confidence · Jeff: 'I dare say that the IFPA and Josh Sharp, in his lack of originality, saw what you did and said, you know what, maybe we can do something like that with the ICR.' Laura doesn't directly confirm but doesn't dispute.

  • Laura is currently ranked 15th in the ICR competition

    high confidence · Laura: 'I'm in 15th place right now. So I have played quite a few games in the ICR.'

Notable Quotes

  • “I love playing God. I do it for my day job. I mean, obviously, I mean that in the most humble sense possible, which I guess there really isn't a humble sense of playing God.”

    Laura Fraley @ ~13:00 — Reveals Laura's enjoyment of tournament directing as a power dynamic she understands through her professional work.

  • “Most pinball players in Virginia know who I am... We have a very, really great culture here. I don't experience sexism regularly or any time that I can.”

    Laura Fraley @ ~16:30 — Comments on gender dynamics in the Virginia pinball community and her acceptance there.

  • “It was the largest ever high score tournament on MatchPlay in MatchPlay's history.”

    Laura Fraley @ ~48:00 — Quantifies the unprecedented scale of the Quarantopia event during the pandemic.

  • “There are a bunch of videos of me in competitions. You'll never see a drop catch ever by me in competition.”

    Laura Fraley @ ~110:00 — Reveals a significant technical limitation in her competitive play that she's working to address.

  • “Christian Line told me you would never ask twice.”

    Laura Fraley @ ~81:00 — References prior advice from Christian Line about Jeff's interviewing approach; shows Laura was hesitant based on that counsel.

  • “If you watch the video we did for Expo, you'll see that we gladly promote all other pinball podcasts and streamers and media content providers.”

    Jeff Teolis @ ~85:00 — Explains Pinball Profile's cross-promotional philosophy and why Jeff waits between interview requests.

  • “If I'm going to do drop catches in competitions, you've got to start doing tap passes.”

    Jeff Teolis @ ~130:00 — Direct challenge to Laura about developing advanced competitive techniques.

  • “I love analyzing and making rulings, and I love that there is a little bit of gray area in there where you can use common sense.”

Entities

Laura FraleypersonJeff TeolispersonJosh SharppersonQuarantopiaeventRichmond Pinball CollectiveorganizationBells and ChimesorganizationStern ArmyorganizationChristian Lineperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Richmond Pinball Collective maintaining conservative COVID operations with 6-person shift limits while continuing membership access

    high · Laura: 'We have one volunteer and six members per shift, and we do two-hour shifts during our open hours.'

  • ?

    event_signal: Quarantopia selfie league during pandemic created unprecedented engagement with 2,700 submissions and 330-350 participants across 15 countries on MatchPlay platform

    high · Laura: 'We had something like 2,700 selfies. It was the largest ever high score tournament on MatchPlay in MatchPlay's history.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball Profile follows cross-promotional philosophy, deliberately spacing repeat guest interviews to avoid redundancy and allow new content development

    high · Jeff: 'If you watch the video we did for Expo, you'll see that we gladly promote all other pinball podcasts... That's why I have to wait a little bit.'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Advanced technique adoption gap: Laura avoids drop catching in competition despite facility with it at home; Jeff advocates for normalized high-difficulty techniques in tournament play

    high · Laura: 'There are a bunch of videos of me in competitions. You'll never see a drop catch ever by me in competition.' Jeff: 'If I'm going to do drop catches in competitions, you've got to start doing tap passes.'

  • $

    market_signal: Quarantopia is positioned as the genesis/inspiration for Josh Sharp's ICR scoring system, representing grassroots innovation influencing official IFPA formats

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.128

0:00
it's time now for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teels you can find everything on pinballprofile.com all your subscriptions past episodes and more great search engine too if you want to find out hey i wonder if that person's on pinball profile you can do that as well we're also on Facebook. We're on Twitter and Instagram at Pinball Profile, and you can email us, pinballprofile at gmail.com. Let's go to Virginia. Let's talk to Laura Fraley. Hey, Laura, how are you? Hi, Jeff Teolis. How are you? I'm good. Am I like Charlie Brown? It's not Jeff, it's Jeff Teolis. I was going to say that I was waiting for your call, which is pretty much the opposite of what Josh Sharp would do. I really wanted to make that joke, so it's been made. I have some strange feeling somehow, some way we might talk about Josh at some point later in this interview. I don't know how it'll happen. We'll find a way to work it in. Well, you're incapable of not talking about him, so.
1:04
I'm looking forward to this week, in fact, because when they do the IFPA updates, certain people will change hands as far as rankings. I'm just going to leave it there. Search certain people that you might be interested in. If you're curious, type Teolas. And then type the word sharp and just see who is where. But I will leave that at that. That is not possible. Oh, it is. It is. You know why? Because those guys have young kids. My kids are older. I get out of the house. I go to play pinball. Those guys, unfortunately.
1:37
You can play pinball all you want, but it's not worth anything right now. And the build was done today. I'm going to go look right now. You're right. We can't play right now. But all that playing I did prior. So in the last three years, that aggressive finding a tournament as much as possible, oh, it pays off big time right now. Congratulations. Maybe you will be a little less self-deprecating when you talk about your skills in the future. See, that's – okay, you understand. I talk myself down in a general sense. When it comes to the Sharp brothers, I kick the living hell out of them. So it's a balance between the two of them, right? Am I really the worst player or am I better than any Sharp other than Roger? Somewhere in between that. Now, the reason we talk about competitions, Laura, you just as much as anybody, myself included, love, love, love playing. You have that competition bug, not only playing, but you also enjoy TDing, which we've talked about with Juana Summers. We need more women like you to be TDs because there's no reason not to be, and you must get great satisfaction from it. I get great satisfaction from it, and it's not about needing more women. And like sometimes you just need someone to TD. Somebody please volunteer to TD these tournaments because a lot of the times you don't get to play. And it's just I don't know. It's a tough job, but I love playing God.

Laura Fraley @ ~25:00 — Explains what attracts her to tournament directing: the interpretive and discretionary aspects of rules enforcement.

Tobias
person
Kevin Stoneperson
Keith Elwinperson
Clarkperson
Pinball Profileorganization
MatchPlayproduct
ICRevent
Pimburgevent
Pinbergevent
Jen Rupertperson
Jack Dangerperson
Lauren Grayperson

medium · Jeff: 'I dare say that the IFPA and Josh Sharp, in his lack of originality, saw what you did and said, you know what, maybe we can do something like that with the ICR.' Laura confirms Josh gave her a shout-out for Quarantopia.

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community perception of Laura Fraley as accomplished and hardworking; recognition from Christian Line as 'hardest working person in pinball'

    high · Christian Line quote relayed; Laura's work on Quarantopia, Richmond Collective, tournament directing, and content creation across multiple platforms.

    • 2:56
    I do it for my day job. I mean, obviously, I mean that in the most humble sense possible, which I guess there really isn't a humble sense of playing God. But, yeah, I love TDing tournaments. I learn something new every time I do one. I really miss my Stern Army tournaments that I can't have right now, Bells and Chimes and our other leagues, and I don't know. I just love it. To be a good TD, though, the most important thing is you have to know the rules, and you are definitely, as I heard you say with Jen Rupert, you are, quote, unquote, a rules geek. I am a rules geek. I've got my list of IFPA rules bookmarked in my computer, And then I've got a shortened list that was put out, I think, by Kevin Stone on the wall in the club. So there's something to reference if you have any questions. And I really, really love the tricky calls. Not so tricky that they take so long to hold up the tournament, but tricky enough to take a few minutes and to have someone, you know, maybe be a little curious about it. And I love getting questions, especially from men.
    4:00
    Now, why is that? Is that just because some men are extremely condescending? I think it's because men are men. And I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that I'm a woman. Most pinball players in Virginia know who I am. Not all of them have been to a tournament that I've directed, but most of them respect me. We have a very, really great culture here. I don't experience sexism regularly or any time that I can. I mean, I know I have in the past, but not from people who are deep into the pinball community, usually just from some Joe Schmo that shows up at a tournament or something like that. Yeah, I really do love directing tournaments. And I don't know. I love analyzing and making rulings, and I love that there is a little bit of gray area in there where you can use common sense. I'm kind of a Supreme Court junkie, so I kind of love looking into the rulings and all the analysis that goes into the justices' opinions. And in that same way, I love breaking apart the IFPA rules and trying to really get the intention out of there. Wow, that was deep, wasn't it? I don't want to put you on the spot because we didn't talk about this in advance, but I have found that in TDing or just being in tournaments that sometimes there are some gray areas. As much as they want to, and I think of the book that Pinberg does, it's so spectacular. They cover off so many different things, but every now and then you do find a gray area. What is an example of a gray area that would give you difficulty and how would you resolve it? Would you resolve it by yourself? Do you bring in co-TDs to kind of come up with consensus? I would probably bring a co-TD in if I had one. Some of these are smaller tournaments and I don't have the ability. I usually pick someone out to make rulings on games that I'm playing, but not a lot of people have experience. So I would just sort of refer them over to the rules and have them talk to people who are more experienced if they were there. I can't bring up an example of a gray area right now because I was unprepared for this, but I can go back in and find some because that's my joy in life, really, just finding little loopholes, I guess. Not really loopholes, but I mean, there is, just like a constitution, the IFPA constitution is somewhat up to interpretation, and different TDs make different rulings, and what they say goes. And if you respect them, then keep playing pinball in their tournament. If not, then GTFO.
    6:25
    One thing that is a constant in pinball and rulings and being a TD is whenever a decision is made, one party is going to be happy, one party is going to be ticked off. This is true. Not necessarily ticked off. Most people know that they made a boo-boo and they're going to wait for the ruling, but it's not necessarily that way. Now I had, what was that one ruling? So one of the other players in a group told a player that it was his turn, but it wasn't. And he went up and played the ball. And that was obviously a major malfunction. Another player interfered, which interference, you know, so. Is the rule everybody has to know their position? You do need to know your position. But if someone says, it's your ball, it's your ball, go up there and play it. I think, I can't remember the exact circumstances, but another player basically convinced, oh, no, I can't remember if it was an extra ball or. I've seen that a lot with extra balls where a person will get an extra ball that wasn't turned off and then walk away innocently or not, and probably innocently. and then the next person comes up thinking it's their turn, plays, and doesn't check the score reel or the digital display and see that, oops, it was still the previous player. Yeah, I know. That's me at Pemberg. That's happened to me. Oh, yeah. But the TD comes up and he's like, you know you're disqualified. And I'm like, I absolutely know that I am disqualified. I think he wanted me to argue or something, but I was just like, no, this is embarrassing. Just go away. I know I'm DQ'd. Just go away. But, yeah, no, it happens. Everyone makes mistakes, and I make at least one mistake each year at Pemberg. Oh, no. Oh, it's fine. I make mistakes at Pemberg, too, but knock on wood, I only make those mistakes once, whether it's playing out of turn, tilt through, things like that. You know, you have it happen to you once, and then that fear of God is in you, I'll never do that again. the fear of god can easily be taken away with some delicious beverages from the counter over by the door where the beverages are sold yes yes you know what another fear of god is heaven forbid you're in a free play area and you know you've got a torn meniscus and you actually sit down on a stool to play a brand new game just to give your feet a rest and heaven forbid somebody from virginia sees you sitting on a stool and makes it a huge, huge deal. That's the worst thing you could possibly do. I know. Right? You know what's worse than that is when a grown man just holds it against you forever in over a year and a half at this point. Two years, yep. You know what? The reason is it's so funny. In fact, I just did an interview with Jesse Jay from Jesse Jay's Pinball Adventures, and we had Roger Sharp on, and we brought you up in that sense. Yeah, yeah, which just showed me that you couldn't let it go, Jeff, and I just really wish you would because I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings. I only make fun of people that I like. Thank you for saying that because I like making fun of all kinds of people, and every single one of them are people I like, so I do genuinely believe that. And looking back, it wasn't a good look, so you were right to call me out on that. I know, and photograph you. Yes, yes. I'll post it up on Facebook when this episode airs. It's too funny not to, but... I think you're proud. Had I had a brace, that photograph wouldn't have taken place. I'm just guessing, right?
    10:02
    Maybe, perhaps. I would have had some sympathy and no, I would have absolutely taken the photograph. Nothing would have changed. This is not butterfly effect. Your brace would have meant nothing to me. So that was Iron Maiden. The next year, Pinberg has a big Jurassic Park display and they had a bunch of games there first time so many people saw it for the first time i remember you were playing it and i came up behind you and shoved a stool and you're like what's going on and you didn lose your concentration like what what this he was yep sorry i knew it i felt a stool graze the back of my thighs I knew it was a stool That funny But in hindsight it is impossible to play on a stool when you really need to move the machine or give it little nudges and stuff You really can't do it. And I think that's one of the big differences when you see the coffee table pinball machines. They're not quite the same. I mean, it's still pinball. It's still got pop bumpers and flippers and spinners. It's just it's not the same as, you know, standing in front of that machine, giving that 300 pound bulky object a shove here and there. Yeah. You know, and I think stools are actually a geographic sort of cultural thing, because we went to an arcade in somewhere in Tennessee and every pinball machine had its own special stool in front of it. And in order to play without a stool, you really had to find a place to put these excess stools, because every pinball machine had one. And I saw the locals come in and every single one of them sat on a stool. And I just can't make fun of a way of life. If that's how you want to play pinball, then that is fine. I mean, you're doing it wrong, but... You know what it is for you and for me and for most people that are probably listening to this podcast is we all enjoy some sort of competition, whether it's IFPA related, whether it's in your local leagues, just dollar games with your friends. So we probably care more about that. And I would say that's the bulk of people. But there are people, and maybe these are the people in Tennessee, that just enjoy the pretty lights, the sounds, the fun, and the world under glass, if you will. So it's not really about getting the high score or completing a mode. So maybe it's just enjoying that different feel that a pinball machine gives you versus, say, a video game. Yeah. No, I agree. I think it's different for everyone. I am very competitive. But, you know, it's actually, I was going to say I also play for fun, but then I couldn't really think of a time that I also, I mean, it is, of course, fun, but that's kind of a side effect of trying to get the score. So, I don't know. You've really messed me up, Jeff. No. I don't know why I play pinball anymore. This is a perfect segue because you do play for fun. You like the competition. We're in a pandemic. What do you do? Thankfully, Laura, you created this incredible Corintopia event, a little selfie league, if you will, that happened in the summer that just grew and grew and grew. And I think it's one of the highlights of 2020, and I say that in all sincerity. Aw, thank you, Jeff. It was a really super, super special thing. It feels like it happened two years ago, even though it was in May. But, no, it was great. I just kind of thought about it and then went on Tilt Forums and asked people if anyone was doing some kind of a league or virtual tournaments or something like that. And nobody really responded to my post. And I was like, well, I guess I will just start something on Match Play. We already ran a selfie tournament at the Collective, so I kind of knew there was a high score format in there. I'm very familiar with Match Play. I use it for all my tournaments. So, yeah, I just started doing it and then kind of had to make up the scoring as it went along, which was interesting. Well, that's the brilliant part, Laura, because how do you do this when everyone's taking selfies and somebody has this rare machine that no one else has? It's Big Bang Bar or something like that, and you're the only person playing that in this Corintopia selfie league. And you did come up with a brilliant system, you know, to combat everybody who's got Attack from Mars or World Cup soccer. I thought it was really good. Thank you. I came up with that within five minutes when people were like, oh, how is this going to be scored? And I'm like, didn't really think about that before I posted this. So yeah, it just it felt like you'd get a point for every person you beat. It was unfortunate for people who had games that other people didn't have. But most people shared a game. By the time we had like 350 or 330 or however many participants there were, most people shared at least one game and you only needed five. I know it is tough. It was not perfect. I didn't intend on that many people. I didn't think that many people would join. So it got a little more serious. I was approving selfies all day long. We had something like 2,700 selfies. It was the largest ever high score tournament on MatchPlay in MatchPlay's history. So that was pretty cool. And it was fun. But I can't do it again. Well, I dare say that the IFPA and Josh Sharp, in his lack of originality, saw what you did and said, you know what, maybe we can do something like that with the ICR. So I think he completely stole it from you. I think you should sue him, but that's just a sidebar. The point is... The ICR. I don't think that exists without you creating Quarantopia. It's possible that he... Well, I know he knew about Quarantopia because he did give me a little shout out on the IFPA page. So thank you, Josh. The ICR is a completely different thing and super innovative. And I got to say, I don't know if you participate in the ICR. I'm in 15th place right now. So I have played quite a few games in the ICR. We can play after this interview if you want. I have plans.
    15:47
    But no, Josh's scoring system in the ICR is brilliant. It is so detailed and it took me a to understand it, and I can't really explain it, but it's all through match play. It's your match play rankings. The people you play are worth, some are worth more than others, so you'll get more points if you play someone else. And then that is multiplied by the number of players you play. So if you have played 50 unique players, you're going to get more points for every single game that you play, as opposed to if you just have one, if it's just Bowen and Keith Elwin going against each other all day, they wouldn't have enough unique players to get significant points, even though they are worth a lot. It's a very interesting format, and there's more to it than that, but he did a really good job. I know Adam Lefkoff did a lot behind the scenes there creating that, and like you say, it does encourage more play with more people, which I also love that they found a way to make it, okay, you have this game and I have this game. They're completely different. We can find a way mutually to make them compatible. That's a real challenge because I know with Quarantopia, It was you combated that with finding other people and how many people with that similar game did you beat, which I thought was brilliant, by the way. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I do think that Quarantopia is the genesis of ICR. Oh, thank you, Jeff. Going back to Quarantopia, I know it really took off, too, when your friend Tobias in Germany, the country director there, saw what you were doing. You had had some time in Germany previously the year before. That's what kind of really opened it up to the world. Yeah, I'm not sure if Tobias was the one who shared it. Probably. He loves to talk about how he's the country director there. And he's a good friend of mine, even though I've really only hung out with him for four days. We love each other.
    17:40
    Yeah, no, it spread to, I think, 15 different countries. If he's responsible for that, then that is awesome. But he didn't even compete because he didn't have enough machines at the time. But he did support me, which was great. You make your mark. So you talk about Tobias and you being obviously close friends and still, even though we're on different sides of the world, you can still connect through social media. And you've really made your mark when you were there in Germany because I know when I was interviewing Jim and Dina Lindsay, they were talking about you and Clark when you came to Germany last year. And whether it's that competitive freak in you or just your overall wonderful personality, you've really been a good pinball representative wherever you go. Jeff, stop it. Listen, I already made funny with the stool. I can give you the real stuff now. I think you're a great person. And as you know, I've been trying to get you on the show for over a year. That's not true. It is true. That's not true. You asked me at Pinnberg. Was it last year? Yes. Last year, right after. You said, I can't do a podcast. I'm speaking, Jeff. Sorry, come on.
    18:48
    So we had just had drinks. we had just had drinks and dinner with uh keith and kate i believe and yeah i was with you we were walking i know that's why i said we and uh we were walking and all of a sudden you're like you want to be on the podcast right now let's go let's go let's go and i was like i i'm not ready for that right now jeff maybe you were butthurt about it and that is understandable but i just didn't understand why you would even want to talk to me. Well, let's see. You've been on Lauren Gray's wonderful Backbox Pinball podcast since then. You did a great stream with Jack Danger. You wrote a great song for the super awesome Pinball Show. You're on with Orby. So finally, finally, Pinball Profile gets the scraps and whatever's left. I was just waiting for you to ask me again because Christian Line told me you would never ask twice. Did he? He did.
    19:45
    That is true for other people. Obviously, that's not true for you. I know. I feel really good about the fact that you asked twice and I immediately messaged him. Do you know why? Who asked twice? Here's what it is. If you watch the video we did for Expo, you'll see that we gladly promote all other pinball podcasts and streamers and media content providers. And so when a guest is on another show, I would rather highlight that as opposed to steal the thunder and say, okay, they were just on this show. Let's get them on here. You've kind of already heard the message, so now that it's been a few months or, in this case, a year since I asked you, things have happened since then. We mentioned the Quarantopia and your trip to Germany. So there's other things to talk about that makes this a unique and different interview than past interviews. That's why I have to wait a little bit. It's true. That's why I denied you the first time. I knew that it would be better. But you know what else Christian Line said about you? He said you are the hardest working man in pinball. That's not true. Hardest working person in pinball. No, I think Christian does a pretty darn good job himself, and that is not true. I can name 100 people who do a lot more than me. I'm turning on a microphone. How hard is that? I'm just telling you what he said. I'm turning on a mic. I'm talking to a friend, catching up because I miss the competitions. I mean, we would have had a good laugh. We know at Pinberg. And you know I got to get to that Richmond Pinball Collective because you mentioned Kevin Stone When I first heard about this and with you and Clark and everybody there I like boy this is the way to go I mean it takes a lot to create a collective They not everywhere but boy you want to talk about a community gathering together to make pinball accessible for so many people through leagues, through bells and chimes. That's what you do with the Richmond Pinball Collective. Yeah, it's great. It would be even better without COVID, but it's awesome. I'm asking because I don't know the answer. Is it not open because of COVID? No, we are open, but we are being very conservative about it. So we have a very limited capacity. We have one volunteer and six members per shift, and we do two-hour shifts during our open hours. So six people roll in, there's a cleaning, six people roll out, six new people roll in. It's fine, but it's kind of the new normal right now. There's, I don't know, no leagues, no tournaments right now. We just don't feel comfortable with it. Yeah. So I'm on the pretty high up on the conservative side of things. I did want to open, but I wanted it to be super safe. So we're trying. Yeah. And we'll see where it goes. Well, we'll get there. I don't know how soon we'll get there. I think hearing all these companies in stage three and with 60,000 volunteers on the current vaccine, I think we're going to see some results, hopefully in the next six months. Let's just fingers cross hope and we can get back at it because it's a lot of fun. But in the meantime, you're getting a lot of experience on your home machines, and that's the case for many people. I would imagine you, like many, are that much better now than you were a year ago because of COVID-19. I heard you talk with Jen about being able to tap pass on Harlem now, things you maybe didn't do before. So I'm wondering, okay, that's a big thing to do on those kind of ballet games. Are you going to be doing that in competition? Were you doing that in competition? I've known how to tap pass for a while. I don't know. That's what you said on Jen's program. I know. That was a while ago, I guess. But we had just gotten to Harlem then, so it was when I got to practice my tap passes. I think the first game I ever tap passed on was Wizard, oddly enough, because it's an EM. So it's a little bit more difficult to tap pass on. But I would never do it in competition. I am not confident to ever tap pass in competition, unless I've tested it, I guess. I don't know. Laura, that's so funny you should say that. A year ago, I was in Cleepin in the finals for a classic event. So, again, these ballet games that you can tap pass. You know, Wizard, you have to tap pass to get it on that right flipper for sure. Harlem, you want to be able to tap pass. Paragon, things like that. I was playing Nitro Ground Shaker. and people were tap passing to get onto the right flipper to hit the scoop up top. I refused to do it. Even though I can do it, I wasn't comfortable because, just like you mentioned, I didn't practice it. And that was dumb on me because it was a pump and dump tournament in which you can play a game over and over and over again. So one of the things I should have done as opposed to I made a mistake. That's kind of dumb. I should have practiced. I understand that, though. Matt Benzik just posted a video of him tap passing on blackout back and forth and back and forth. And he posted this tap pass challenge and we have a blackout. So I'm like, why not? And I go in there and the first time I try to tap pass, the ball goes like just flying up. I just cannot get it on those flippers. Tap passing is one of the most awkward things you can do in pinball anyway, because it's just barely touching the flipper and it's just so awkward and uncomfortable. It's not me. It's not my skill. I'm a great drop catcher. Not a great tap catcher. I would like to say that it is better to have the skill of drop catching than tap passing. Drop catching is something I never, ever, ever do in any competition ever. I only do it at home. That is something I am not comfortable about. What? Are you kidding me? I find ways around it. Now, that probably has cost me. I've done okay. You're a great player. To hear you say that you don't drop catch in competition is blowing my mind right now. There are a bunch of videos of me in competitions. You'll never see a drop catch ever by me in competition. I'm working on it, and it's just the comfort zone. I can control a ball differently, and I've got to learn it because – or not learn it. I need to be more comfortable with it. I am so comfortable with it. Let me tell you how comfortable. My drop catches have actually evolved into different types of drop catches. I used to have to do the quick up with the flipper to do the drop catch, And sometime during quarantine, I was able to just hold the flipper up and let it fall just like a beautiful Andy Rosa drop catch. Just let it land on a little pillow of a flipper. Before, I had to do the quick up and down because it was a timing thing, which is not as pretty. But now I have the pretty ones down. But, I mean, then, of course, there's aim after that. And usually I'll just drop catch it and fling it into a post and it'll go down the drain. What I don't like about drop catching, for me personally, and I'm definitely in the minority, it's the wrong thing to say, but what I don't like about it is that you can't cradle up after it. You have to flip. And I would much rather be able to cradle some way, somehow, whether it's a bounce pass. I love doing shats. Yeah, alley pass, shats, same thing. I love doing the alley pass. I don't even care what machine it is, modern, old, no problem, no fear of that. And that's more dangerous than a tap pass because... I don't really do alley passes at all, ever. See, that's why I'm, this is so interesting. Tap passes, I think for you, you've got to do them. Listen, if I'm going to do drop catches in competitions, you've got to start doing tap passes. Because at least with a tap pass, if you miss or you hit it too hard, you've put the ball in play. If you didn't hit the flipper hard enough and it didn't nudge, you've still got half the flipper left to save it. Well, the better your drop catches get, Jeff, the more likely you are to be able to have an opportunity to aim for your shot. So the more they just stop the ball right at that point, which I don't know physics very well, but if it's not moving very fast, then you should be able to keep – I have no – the drop catch is my absolute favorite move. I can live catch too. Obviously, I usually do that out of scoops and saucers and stuff like that, but I don't just do it. And if it's just flying down the middle of the play field, I'm probably not going to try and live catch it. Do you think live catches are harder than tap and drops? I learned them after drop catches, and I kind of just sat there until I figured out exactly when to time it. But it's usually out of a scoop. Like in Jurassic Park, it's coming out of the control room, and you just have to sort of time it. I'm not great at them. It's just... It's funny about the scoops and how that's effective for live catches and maybe even drop catches. You love your Iron Maiden game. We talked about Jurassic Park. When it's ready, I will be getting an Avengers Premium, the new Keith Elwin game. I'm looking forward to it because one thing about Keith's games, damn it, he's so good at pinball, he makes you shoot every shot on the play field and you have to be skilled in things like drops, alley passes, live catches, loop passes. I mean, you really have to be on your game with his layouts because he makes you work it. You just can't get away with flailing. When are you using an alley pass in Jurassic Park? Not in his games. Okay. No, he doesn't have any orbit shots in any of those or even Iron Maiden for that matter. Fine, Laura. God.
    29:01
    You're going to cut that out, aren't you? No, I can admit I'm in a mistake. The point is he does make you use a lot of shots. I never do loop passes, by the way. I can't even think of a game where I do one. Yeah, no, me either. I do orbit shots all the time, but I don't know if I... ACDC, you know, if you go left to right. I've certainly tried a loop pass. I'm not... I don't remember if it was successful or not. My name isn't Escher. I can't do that. I'm not Raymond Davidson. I'm not Bowen. I mean, Bowens just go around and then just boop, just boop over there. It's so nice. But yeah, now I... Live catches, drop catches, post-passing, I use all the time, obviously, because it's just such an easy thing to do. And most of the time when I'm playing alone, I'm too impatient. I'm like, I really need the ball over on that flipper. So I'm just going to try to hit the ramp that feeds to that flipper instead of actually just post-passing it over there, which is so easy. I'm so impatient though. Like sometimes I just don't want to use skills because I just, it's not fun all the time. Laura, do you realize the last 10 minutes or so we've been talking about drops and lives and alley passes and everything else. It's making me, not now, but once we're done this interview, want to go to my machines and absolutely practice these. I imagine people listening right now are like, okay, I got to try that. That's the great thing about pinball. And just the good thing, there's not much. The good thing about this pandemic is that for many of us, we were able to really hone our skills on some of our machines and play them maybe differently. I don't know if you've played Iron Maiden or any of your other games differently than you played before? Because in competition, there's usually just one path you play and it's all about scoring base or it's about minimal risk on some of the older games. Let's say risky shots, not so much risk versus reward. Are you playing differently now with the pandemic? And I assume better. Jeff, I'm ranked like 2,500. So I don't play the way that you play.
    30:57
    I do what I'm comfortable with all the time. So when I play at home, I'm going to also play that way in competition. I mean, I know the rules to the games that I own very well, but I can't go for a double chaos strategy on Jurassic Park. I'm just not going to try and get chaos, and that used to be what it was. I think the code has changed. Yeah, get paddocks now. Yeah, no, I love paddocks. I will get that first control room mode, always, like, lots of points. I'm excellent at system boot. I am the best person at system boot. Oh, good. I sound like Donald Trump right now. nobody has ever played system boot the way that i have jeff sorry i made it awkward i made it awkward you know here's the thing it's tough god you're in virginia for god's sakes you're you're right close to it you're closer to dc than me so close i try not to speak my mind about politics you can probably read between the lines we don need to talk about politics That was just a little political humor Gotcha I am fascinated by the way in American politics Don't think it doesn't affect us here in Canada or everywhere else in the world because the states are my second home, for crying out loud. And I think of all the friends I have there. So, yeah, I do care about this election. And people got to get out and vote. Let's just say that. Yep, I've already voted. Did you? Good for you. By mail. I'm sure it's in a fake box somewhere. Sure. No, in my mailbox in my front yard. Good for you. I watched my mail person take it away and she's awesome. So hopefully it made it to its destination. But I will continue to check the election website to make sure that they received my ballot. Yeah. Well, 31 million mail-in votes were done in 2018 and there wasn't a squabble about that. So why should there be now? Because there will be. And we won't get into that. We won't. But I do want to ask you about something else. We were going to record this yesterday, but you said, oh, I can't. I'm busy with my ham radio class. Okay. I've been on radio for 26 years. I'm fascinated by people like yourself in ham radio classes. I know nothing about ham radio. Enlighten me. You probably know everything about ham radio. I don't. Because you know about radio. I mean, a lot of it is going to overlap there. I'm only three classes deep, so I will not take a quiz from you, Jeff Teolis. I can't even ask you a question about it because I don't know. I know nothing about it, although they all have funny customized license plates. That's all I know. Oh, they do. Maybe in Canada they do. We don't really have a ton of hams left. It's kind of a dying hobby. And my husband's father was a ham. He was the highest level. I think he was expert level. And then he also worked in the signal corps of the Army. and it was just kind of a big deal with ham radio and Morse code and all that fun stuff. And they actually don't even require Morse code anymore with the new certifications. But in honor of him, I kind of just wanted to learn it. I have a fascination with things that are in danger of disappearing, which is probably why I play pinball. But I just wanted to, I don't know, pay it some homage and also learn a little bit about electronics while I'm doing it. And maybe it will blossom into a hobby, and maybe it will just be a little blip in my life where I learn something new. I don't know. It's quarantine, Jeff. We're all doing some weird stuff. Hey, my wife and I took a course on how to become pilots, so listen. That is so cool. I would do that too. Yeah, wait till you see the bill. Oh, God. Did you go up in a plane, Jeff? That's called the Discovery Flight. So, yeah, you do it in a Cessna and a lot of fun, sure. But then you got to, okay, is this for real? Is this really where we're going to go? How practical is this? Can that money be put somewhere maybe in a better place? I don't like a kid's education. Things like that.
    34:59
    Clark's got some pilots in his family, too. He's got all the cool people in his family. But, I mean, my family's pretty cool, too, just in case they're listening, which they're not. But so, yeah, I always wanted to be a pilot when I was a child. In fact, the first job I ever wanted to do was to be a pilot because you press a red button and you go up high. That's what I wrote in like my kindergarten journal or something. Sure. I like the sound of that. Now, that being said, your country has Space Force or SpaceX, is it? It's never too late. I mean, forget the pilot. SpaceX is a privately owned company. Which one is Space Force? What the hell is it? Space Force is what Trump created. Okay, sorry. One of them is a Steve Carell show. One of them is going into space, and the other one is very much not. All I know here in Canada is that you guys sent two people up named Bob and Doug, and us Canadians were so excited that the Hosers are finally going up there. McKenzie Brothers, yay! And then Rick Moranis comes back to Earth and gets punched in the face. Stay up in space, Rick. It's terrible. And I should recommend, if you want to watch something about space, The documentary on Netflix about The Challenger is superb, if you have not already seen it. The first night it came out, the four episodes, yeah, I watched it. Because, again, being much older than you, just by a couple of years, I remember that very well when it happened and how devastating it was. Good documentary. I mean, tough to watch, but I think an important piece of history. It was incredibly tough to watch, but also very nostalgic. I was seven years old, and we watched it in the classroom. Because America, yeah. So everyone was excited throughout the country and every classroom in America was watching at that time. And we all remember it, oddly enough. I was just, you know, seven. I was 16 and we also were watching it in school, even here in Canada. I think I just happened to be in the right class at the right time. And we were watching it because it wasn't in every class, but obviously our teacher was somewhat fascinated. And I remember our reaction. What was it like for you as a seven-year-old watching that? I don't really remember much of it. I remember sitting in my desk. I remember the teacher being upset. I don't remember much more than that. I have a visual of what the room looked like. I don't remember feeling any particular emotion. Clark remembers a little bit more than I do. He's three years older than I am, but, I mean, I was really young. It's just weird that it stuck. I mean, I can't remember any other moment in my second-grade classroom other than that. Scary times for sure. I've been watching your Facebook feed, and I've been very curious because you and I have something in common other than pinball. We both love our red hair. No, it's we both love cats. And I want to know that Caesar's doing okay. Caesar is the best, and two hours ago he was doing just fine. I assume he's okay now. I'll check on him after this. But he really appreciates you asking about him. He is the fuzziest and sweetest little baby that you would ever meet. Just the most tender-hearted lover. And I won't go on anymore because I just adore him. So thank you for checking on him. You know, it's funny when I think of cats or dogs or pets in general, and I hear people that are cat-only people or dog-only people. It reminds me of pinball in a way. And the comparison is, you know, in the last month, we've seen a brand-new excellent Stern game be released. We've seen a brand-new excellent Jersey Jack pinball machine. And you go to the forums and you see the quote-unquote fanboys that talk about, oh, it's Stern or bust, or oh, J.J.P., the quality is great, Stern sucks, blah, blah, blah. Can't people like both? It's driving me crazy. Like, I don't understand it. I've got an AIQ on a premium on order just like you because, I mean, obviously I want to own the immaculate Keith Elwin collection.
    38:54
    But Guns N' Roses looks awesome. And we might move Jurassic along and take in a monster bash. Who knows? I mean, you just want to have fun. I like all of the pinball, all eras, almost all companies.
    39:12
    And, you know, a lot of great designers. I mean, Pat Lawler is a great designer. We're going to get it dialed in here for just a little bit. I mean, I don't understand all the complaining. I can understand complaining about prices sometimes. Sure. But you're allowed to like more than one company. Right. It's like some people just do not understand that. I keep seeing these GNR versus Avengers. I'm like, how are they competing? They're not really. I mean, maybe if you work for that company, they are. But otherwise, to you, there's no competition. You just pick the one you like most and be kind. I don't know. They both look like great machines to me. I haven't played either one. Yeah. I'm looking forward to playing both. And again, all this does is just make pinball better for everyone because, you know, if there's a company that's on top and somebody does something great, that raises the bar and it just gets better and better and more things are put into pinball and more creativity. We're seeing great software, great designers come out of the woodwork, artists, the sound packages. It's all a wonderful time for pinball. We just got to get out of this damn pandemic. Ooh, Jeff likes pinball capitalism.
    40:20
    I do. Yeah, I know. we do need to get out of the pandemic. Either it's a monopoly with pinball or it's, you know, a little bit of capitalistic competition here. I mean, you can't have it both ways. A monopoly is not good. A monopoly is not good, but monopoly pinball is great. That's another Pat Lawler game. No. What? No, sorry, Laura. Oh, I don't want to end on a bad note, but come on. It's like the board game Adam's Family.
    40:45
    It's got your life. Yeah, you're right. I love Monopoly. We used to have one. And it does get a little boring after a while, but I think it's a great game.
    40:56
    Yeah. It's just mad for me. I don't hate the game. Don't get me wrong, but I'm just – we play it in the league all the time. Why don't you go post on Pennside about it? No. Why don't you go talk about Monopoly versus Meteor? Just randomly pit two against each other.
    41:09
    Meteor wins in a heartbeat. Meteor does win that one, I will say. All right, Laura. Rob, before we go off into different tangents, whether it's ham radio, SpaceX slash Space Force, tap passing versus drop catches, we've covered a lot, haven't we? We certainly have in an ADD sort of way. So I have to apologize for that. Good thing I don't do show notes because it'd be like, yeah, we went here, there. The one common thing is our love for Josh Sharp. That's all. That's what we come out of this program with. Well, I don't know him personally, so I can't say that I have any love, but I have mad respect for him. You're not missing much. Don't worry about it.
    41:48
    Killing me. All right. Say hi to Clark. Say hi to Cesar. Great to talk to you, Laura. And tell Christian he was wrong.
    41:56
    Thank you so much, Jeff. Thanks for having me on. This was fun. Human contact. Yay. Bye-bye. Bye. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. Check us out on our Facebook group. We're also on Twitter and Instagram, at pinballprofile. And you can email us, pinballprofile at gmail.com. I'm Jeff Teels. Virginia, Virginia, don't go.
    42:21
    Virginia, Virginia, don't go.