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Scorbit Chat: Jay Adelson & Daphishbowl

Mystery Pinball Theater 3000·video·1h 5m·analyzed·Nov 29, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

Scorebit founders explain virtual pinball integration architecture and community development roadmap

Summary

Jay Adelson (Scorebit co-founder) and DeFishbowl (PinCredibles leader) discuss Scorebit integration into virtual pinball, explaining how the platform adapts physical machine architecture for homebrew and emulated games. They cover achievements, DMD support, API standardization, and plans to open development tools to the community. Licensing constraints on modern games like Guardians of the Galaxy are acknowledged, contrasted with freedom to enhance older classic games.

Key Claims

  • Scorebit has written 25,000 lines of code for Guardians of the Galaxy Visual Pinball integration

    high confidence · Manus explicitly states DeFishbowl 'wrote 25,000 lines of code' for the Guardians integration

  • Scorebit's app is free and will receive version 1.3 with improved AutoClaim that enables persistent score capture without constant manual claiming

    high confidence · Jay Adelson states 'the app is free' and describes 1.3 release with new AutoClaim version in beta

  • DMD achievements feature is coming as a free upgrade for all Scorbitrons but timing is uncertain pending testing

    high confidence · Jay directly answers: 'DMD achievements is coming. It's a free upgrade that will be rolled into all the Scorbitrons'

  • Scorebit works on Fathom has functioned 'perfectly without issue' for almost four years, but DeFishbowl's machine has unknown compatibility issues

    medium confidence · Jay states Fathom support has 'worked on Fathom for, I think, almost four years, perfectly without issue' but acknowledges unknown failure on specific user's machine

  • Scorebit plans hardware designs for Harry Williams Firepower and 1980s solid-state pins but hasn't manufactured due to pandemic delays

    medium confidence · Jay says 'we actually have designs for our hardware that's already been designed to work with those older pins that we just haven't had time to manufacture'

  • Guardians of the Galaxy tribute table is the first VPX homebrew with Scorebit integration and will pioneer achievement implementation

    high confidence · Manus: 'The first table to come out um with Scorebit integration being uh, this Guardians of the Galaxy tribute table um will probably be the pioneer'

  • Olivier Galeas' Pinball Browser software now integrates with Scorebit achievement platform and can auto-detect DMD types across multiple manufacturers

    high confidence · Jay explains 'the latest version of Pinball Browser can connect Tee'd Off our achievement platform' and handles multiple DMD types

Notable Quotes

  • “It's better than a physical machine. I'm just saying it, it is. Because you could do more integration and cool stuff with it that you can't do with a physical machine.”

    Jay Adelson@ 9:17 — Core philosophy: virtual pinball with Scorebit can exceed physical machine capabilities through code flexibility

  • “You can put hundreds of them in there. So I think setting the groundwork for that, Jay, is actually a really good start.”

    Manus@ 10:36 — Highlights unique value proposition of virtual pinball: density and accessibility compared to physical cabinet requirements

  • “We are dissatisfied with our app at Scorebit. We see huge areas of improvement in the user interface.”

    Jay Adelson@ 24:25 — Transparent acknowledgment of UX debt and openness to community feedback on Scorebit app design

  • “If you're a React Native developer and you're looking for something to do, you have a giant backlog.”

    Jay Adelson@ 28:38 — Public recruitment of volunteer developers; signals ongoing engineering bottleneck

  • “The nature of what we do doesn't actually change anything on the games, and we don't reuse...It's not like there's going Tee'd Off be a ROM update for Theater of Magic tomorrow.”

    Jay Adelson@ 38:02 — Clarifies Scorebit's non-invasive approach to classic games; explains why licensing is less fraught for legacy titles

  • “We have all these I think it allows us Tee'd Off be really have a really good time with things like achievements because the companies don't exist anymore”

Entities

Jay AdelsonpersonDeFishbowlpersonManuspersonScorebitorganizationPinCrediblesorganizationGuardians of the Galaxy (tribute table)gameOlivier GaleaspersonBlood MachinesgameIron Maidengame

Signals

  • ?

    technology_signal: Scorebit expanding into virtual pinball (VPX, VPen) with standardized BASIC class implementations and ROM-based hardware interfaces in development

    high · DeFishbowl created reusable class for Guardians integration; working on BASIC interface for ROM-based games; Jay mentions standardization effort with community developers

  • ?

    product_launch: Scorebit 1.3 release in development with improved AutoClaim feature enabling persistent score capture without manual claiming; version 1.29 in beta

    high · Jay states '1.29 release is in beta right now, but the 1.3 release will have a new version of AutoClaim'

  • ?

    code_update: DMD achievements feature coming as free upgrade for all Scorbitrons; timing uncertain pending testing; Olivier Galeas' Pinball Browser now integrates for frame editing

    high · Jay: 'DMD achievements is coming. It's a free upgrade... I don't know the exact timing of it yet because we still have a lot more testing to do'

  • ?

    community_signal: Scorebit planning to crowdsource achievement creation and customization similar to Color DMD's colorization model; master achievements with community branches

    medium · Jay discusses model where community adopts master achievement lists (e.g., Twilight Zone) with ability to create custom variants for venues/events/locations

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Scorebit actively recruiting React Native developers and volunteer interns; acknowledges significant app development backlog

    high · Jay: 'If you're a React Native developer and you're looking for something to do, you have a giant backlog' and mentions Scorebit 'always willing to take volunteer developer if you want an internship'

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.195

0:00
Oh my god. Well done, Fliptronic. You haven't hit that mark in a long time That was terrific Welcome friends My name is Manus Mystery Pinball Theater 3000 As you can tell I've just I've survived the COVID I shouldn't have said COVID on YouTube For some reason you can't say COVID on YouTube I don't know why I've survived the thing We got a raid coming in Game Club Central with 32 people who probably want to know the answers to a lot of these questions about scorebit integration so we without further ado i have a couple of really cool dudes who helped uh pioneer all this stuff especially with virtual pinball um hello everyone i'm gonna bring them in now we have uh from scorebit we have Jay Adelson one of the founders there you go greetings my pinball friend that reminds me to do something I'm going to do something in just one minute Jay Adelson of Scorbit one of the co-founders of Scorbit and next to Jay we have the lovely the talented DeFishbowl of the Pingredibles Yo How's it going I'm gonna do a couple of things here First I'm going to Nah I'll keep the volume of everyone's Sounds coming in But um I will do this I will put my glasses on That's the fishbowl coming into the chat Of course it is yeah wow friends all right so um here's paladin so jay and uh the fishbowl let me just while these sounds are happening and all this other neat stuff that i didn't disable before the stream by the way paladin really good score so let's I'm going to mention just real quick a couple of things if you're new here I love you everyone it's funny it's a very musical kind of gathering thank you for the hype train um i saw uh i saw hawkeyes yeah i saw hawkeyes show up and i saw a flip stream um so to recap till this point uh there is an app that exists for physical pinball machines it is called Scorbit it was created many years ago and executed maybe a couple of years ago and it depends on who you ask and what day it is yeah pretty much but it allows you to put your pinball machine on the internet so to speak so there for example there's a Tales of the Arabian Nights downstairs in my murder garage that actually belongs to one of these guys and it's not the fishbowl.
4:08
There's a Tales of the Arabian Nights in my garage that has what's called a Scorbatron in it. And it's a device that allows the,

Guardians of the Galaxy Virtual Pinball will have more achievements than Stern's Insider Connected version due to licensing constraints on the official game

high confidence · Jay states achievements on Scorebit 'plus more' than Insider Connected, noting 'Insider Connected has let's just say they're more confined in terms of what their licensing deals lets them do'

Jay Adelson@ 38:21 — Explains freedom to enhance classic game achievements vs. modern licensed titles constrained by corporate licensing

Pinball Browserproduct
Insider Connectedproduct
Multimorphicorganization
Fathomgame
Chicago Gaming Companyorganization
Tales of the Arabian Nightsgame
Game Club Centralevent
Fliptronicorganization
Visual Pinballproduct
Freezyperson
Stern Pinballorganization
  • ?

    product_concern: Scorebit leadership acknowledges dissatisfaction with current app interface and commits to significant UX improvements

    high · Jay: 'We are dissatisfied with our app at Scorebit. We see huge areas of improvement in the user interface'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Modern licensed pinball games (Stern Guardians) have constrained achievement counts due to licensing deal restrictions; Scorebit's homebrew version can exceed official achievements

    high · Jay explains Insider Connected 'more confined in terms of what their licensing deals lets them do' while Scorebit Guardians will have 'plus more' achievements

  • ?

    machine_intel: Scorebit has designed but not yet manufactured hardware to support Harry Williams Firepower and 1980s solid-state pins; pandemic caused delays

    medium · Jay: 'we actually have designs for our hardware that's already been designed to work with those older pins that we just haven't had time to manufacture. And there was this pandemic that happened'

  • ?

    product_concern: Scorebit reports Fathom (classic Bally) support functioned for 4 years but unknown issue affecting user 'Mutterfutter's' machine; investigating potential modded machine conflicts

    medium · Jay: 'It works on Fathom. It has worked on Fathom for, I think, almost four years, perfectly without issue. And for some reason on Mutterfutter's Fathom, it doesn't'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Pinball Browser (Olivier Galeas) now integrates with Scorebit achievement platform; auto-detects DMD types across manufacturers and conforms frames to correct palettes

    high · Jay: 'the latest version of Pinball Browser can connect Tee'd Off our achievement platform' and 'his DMD frame editor will conform Tee'd Off that palette'

  • ?

    community_signal: PinCredibles Guardians of the Galaxy tribute achieved Scorebit integration with 25K lines of code; multiple additional VPX tables (Blood Machines, Iron Maiden) in development pipeline

    high · Manus confirms Guardians 'first table to come out um with Scorebit integration' and DeFishbowl mentions Blood Machines and Iron Maiden as upcoming integrated tables

    • 4:16
    to put it simply, allows the pinball machine to be connected to the internet and share scores and achievements and challenges and stuff like that. It brings an old machine like that into the current day fun of leaderboards and all that other stuff.
    4:34
    And if you're here on a Tuesday, generally speaking, you know about virtual pinball. We enjoy it. We play it. We play it with visual pinball. We play it with future pinball. We play it with pinball effects and Zacharia.
    4:48
    So I'm part of a few guys who got together and call themselves the Pin Credibles. And DeFishbowl is the leader of that group. amazing programmer and so when we we do these tribute tables and the fishbowl said hey why don't we attempt integration of score bit into visual pinball and so that's where we are now it we rolled out guardians the galaxy tribute table right 100% um code that the fishbowl wrote 25,000 lines of you know, code and rolled out the integration of Scorbit because Scorbit has APIs and stuff that you can use to put in. Consider this like a homebrew. Like if someone came up with a homebrew machine and they wanted Scorbit integration, well, you can do that. So we did that with Visual Pinball. There are a lot of people are a little confused about how it works, and I don't blame you. It's new. It's very new. um so i got these guys to help you out with questions um so can i maybe yeah maybe maybe a uh since i think anyone watching this stream who has played virtual pinball in one form or another probably knows a lot about that world because you kind of get you kind of get deep into it right and then you get used to whether it's emulated or original like the fishbowls incredible work um i'm still kind of blown away by by all these tributes um one of the things about the about the physical uh pinball machines is that we had to come up with a platform that could accommodate really any kind of pinball machine, right? And so the way we structured it for the physical world, when you kind of like push it into the virtual world, might seem a little strange out of context, you know? And so one of the things I should probably explain is that in the in the scorebit world for every pinball machine that has ever been created there is an entry in our database for that machine so there is um an entry for you know uh batman le super le and premium right it's like they're different entries or sometimes if it's uh they're sometimes grouped together but you have this list of pinball machines And then any time a person owns one and adds it to score bit, that is a single instance of that title. So for every title, I might have 10,000 machines that are all of that title. And that needed to happen because we needed to be able to say, well, this is Manu's machine and this is DeFishbowl's machine and they're two separate machines. So they have their own leaderboards, but they share the same title. So there's a global leaderboard that's common. And that existed before we got into this virtual universe. and so then you know you start to ask the questions like well what happens when you have a homebrew pin or you have a homebrew uh virtual pin and you know who's the master list manager and how does that work we all know it's andreas but we won't we won't go any farther than that um but like there is a but there is a sort of a method to the madness of why it was the way it was and then you guys come to me and say one guy can have a thousand pinball machines in a single box and i'm like okay that's not complicated at all um but we did it you did it it's amazing and i think that i think the magic and one of the great things about it is we said we want you to behave exactly like a and and and you and in fact it's better it's better than a physical machine i'm just saying it it is because you could do more integration and cool stuff with it that you can't do with a physical machine oh i see what you're saying yeah uh your level of flexibility with you know code on top of code is easier than code on top of like physical parts and stuff like that Yes, I can say that again. It is better. Okay, Game Club Central, it is better.
    9:57
    Thank you for the raid. That's the context, I guess. Yeah, and I think it's terrific to put it in that context because the fact that you can have 500 to 1,000 virtual tables in one cab, it's kind of the point, right? Kind of the point of virtual play. Remember what we came from, kids. We came from sitting at a desktop using shift keys exclusively and just flipping around with some kind of fun thing with flippers and stuff like that. Two, someone said, hey, let's make this into a physical cab, and now we're here today. And you can put hundreds of them in there. So I think setting the groundwork for that, Jay, is actually a really good start.
    10:47
    Let's take a look at – thank you, Hawkeyes. So it actually – achievement unlocked. So the score bit.
    11:04
    That's Nail Buster, by the way, Jay. What's that? This is Nail Buster here. Of course it is. And welcome, Nail Buster, because we're going to open this conversation.
    11:22
    Ken Swift. Okay. Wow. All right, you were saying. You were saying. I was just my last bit before I before I throw the ball to the fishbowl is only to say that, you know, we we obviously have achievements and people have talked about anyone who's played a Jersey Jack game that's connected to score a bit knows that as you're playing the game, an achievement can be unlocked. and there's a master list of achievements that has to be created by the pinball designer.
    12:00
    And, you know, in some cases, that's a manufacturer coming to us, right? But if you have a virtual pin, particularly a homebrew pin, that's going to end up being you.
    12:13
    It's going to come on those achievements. I mean, there'll be one master list of achievements for every virtual game that goes on Scorbit, it but but someone's gonna have to do the work yeah so coming up with all those cool ideas i'm looking so that's actually for the for uh for the pink redibles that's actually me right now so um for uh it just stands to reason right the first table to come out um with scorpion integration being uh this guardians of the galaxy tribute table um will probably be the pioneer in putting the achievements in, so I'm already currently working that. Jay is helping me out with that whole thing. We'll talk about that a little bit. It's coming down the pipe. I do want to say that I did have Hey, Gusty.
    13:05
    I do want to say that I did try to have the next table that has scorebit support up and running for you guys right now. I couldn't get it to work.
    13:17
    My fault. The fishbowl is right here trying to help me my fault i had covid so give me a break okay um but the the games are coming out quickly now because of the the work that the fishbowl is in let's let's let's send it over to the fishbowl uh uh are you seeing anything in chat that you want to address the fishbowl or anything you want to mention i mean just the the main things like i i think i kind of saw where uh people were saying hey kind of how does this work you know how do you how do we add this to different tables i guess and standardizing the implementation of that so i mean part of that's a work in progress i mean like so like we poor guardians i built a class right this thing anybody can grab this class and add it to their homebrews or their originals you know that where it's all the vb code right and uh and so blood machines you know working on that with those guys and uh helping them get that integrated and that's the one like they're doing i mean they don't have pup but we have pup and so they've they've made some good uh um how do you say workarounds there that are that are phenomenal so i mean that's uh and it's it's looking like it'll come pretty quick um and of course uh maiden is the other one you know we'll get that dropped in there and go back and probably add but so there's a basic class for that for originals but the next the next avenue we have to get is something that has a uh a basic interface for uh rom based and that's the one jay's been working you know with you know a couple people in the community to try and get that you know um established and there's a there's a little bit of work there to do it the right way but once it gets done i mean it it will be pretty slick and just a seamless uh probably just a another library kind of like we do with freezy and drop it in and there you go and now you have scorebit integration into um the rom base yeah and and i think that if we do it right when we do it right because i know that freezy and all these guys are are brilliant and the work that we're going to get done is going to be beautiful um what i really like about it though is that i think we can take it a level higher than the physical world games and the reason i say that is because you just have tighter control over things like for example In a Jersey Jack game, you've got this beautiful high definition screen in the back glass. And when you're playing the game, a QR code pops up when the ball's in the shooter lane that you can scan with the app and then claim that slot Well there a lot we can do when you got a PC in there and a display that you can you can change the display And we coming up with all sorts of crazy ideas you know in terms of how to scan And if you have a real DMD, we can really make it seamless and simple. but the important thing is that doing it in a way that like you did the fishbowl with guardians where you created a class we really want to make this so that you can go back in time to any of the ROM games that have already existed and very very simply add them to scorebit and the The nice thing about the DMD games in particular is that we've done all the work already. We already have all the code. Yeah. It interprets the frames and changes it all and so forth. And our new DMD achievements, which are going to be rolled out soon for regular physical DMD games, we'll make sure are working also for the ROM-based DMD games. And so we have to... I can't wait to see how it all comes through.
    17:34
    Yeah, it's going to be phenomenal. It will be really fun. In particular, we've been using VPX for ages because, let's say, for example, there was someone who decided they wanted to get a Rocky and Bullwinkle physical machine. Not that I know anyone who would do that. Who would be crazy enough to do that? Let's say somebody wanted to do that. And let's just say there's a small number of people who have Rocky and Bullwinkle pinball machines. Well, we would have to get access to one in order to record all the motors and know exactly how to integrate it with score bit. And sometimes that's a little challenging. And when you do find them, they're not always working so well, you know. So we use virtual pinball in order to simulate the games so that we can then create some of the outputs to generate things and test our logic. and so uh so that means that i've been spending an absurd amount of time over the last seven years of score bits history in virtual pinball um wishing i had a full-size cabinet to play them on
    18:57
    but to some extent you know it's like i have 45 i remember manu didn't we have one situation where you were doing something and I had to like get get it working while I was on an airplane flying someplace yeah I mean I I could a certain a certain big time pinball streamer was streaming Judge Dredd the next day that's right that's right that's they were gonna a certain big time pinball streamer was gonna stream Judge Dredd and I let you know so you were on an airplane with pin maim um let me just address real quick oh so there's a go ahead there's a question why do scorebit probes um why do scorebit probes not work with fathom and also when will i get dmd achievements you know i i swear that's that's kind of a i feel like i'm being heckled by mutter futter and and i and i feel that because he knows the answer to these questions he's asking them anyway um i don't know should we stay on vpens or you want me to answer that answer that question i mean i would like you to answer whatever questions you can feel because maybe mutter futter knows but maybe mutter futter knows that other people don't know so dmd achievements is coming. It's a free upgrade that will be rolled into all the Scorbitrons. Anybody with a DMD Scorbitron, it will arrive. I don't know the exact timing of it yet because we still have a lot more testing to do. But basically, it hijacks the DMD screen and rolls out an achievement badge like on the screen when you unlock things. And just like today, if you have Scorbit, it'll say player one J when you tap into the score bit platform. But what Mutterfutter is asking about is we work on old games. If you see this behind me, there's the best of all early Bally games, Future Spa, which I know you all love very much. And we work on those old games too. And the way we do it is we're obviously not reading DMD frames. We're reading display data. And we intercept the display bus and we pull those digits out and interpret them. And it works on Fathom.
    21:26
    It has worked on Fathom for, I think, almost four years, perfectly without issue. And for some reason on Mutterfutter's Fathom, it doesn't. and the truth be told is that from our perspective that means Scorbit is broken because we had to design something that could work on anybody's weird modded strange or bizarre combo of machines it could be that we didn't notice it was broken or maybe Mudderfutter is so good at playing Fathom that he's triggered something I don't know by the way I'm waiting for beta breath for a score on hardware that works with Williams firepower. So, so all those eighties pins, all those, all those 80 solid state pins, we will support in time. And we actually have designs for our hardware. That's already been designed to work with those older pins.
    22:29
    That we just haven't had time to manufacture. And there was this pandemic that happened and stuff, but it's all coming. And so whatever physical game you have, we will be able to work. But wouldn't it be great, segue, segue, for us to work on the fathom that undoubtedly exists for some time in the VPN world? And it's Scorbit hiring.
    22:56
    Scorbit is always willing to take volunteer developer if you want an internship. Yeah. Unpaid interns. at a fantastic company with a great culture i think i'm a volunteer i think the fishbowl is a volunteer um he's volunteered already he's done so much um let me grab a couple of uh highlighted chats that i i need to answer uh vinnie blank says mbt3k i remember a stream you did way back when where you were creating uh slash naming of achievements for junkyard did you ever did that ever make it way to score a bit I just called up that spreadsheet today and so Jay and I had a conversation so that's going to go over with Guardian stuff so yes it's kind of still in development I still have it and I'm going to roll that over when I hand it. Jay I think there was about 29 achievements for Junkyard that I had and since we had a conversation I know exactly what I need to do to make those usable in score a bit it wasn't a drunk pin side post a few months ago about farming out programming don't worry about that that's true like all of there's no such thing as a bad post about ways that people think about integrating score a bit and issues with the interface because here's the first thing everyone's got to know we are dissatisfied with our app at Scorebit.
    24:30
    We see huge areas of improvement in the user interface. I mean, you guys in the virtual world make 1,000 times better graphic implementations than we've been able to do with Photoshop on a Thursday.
    24:49
    So please, yeah, keep it coming. So one of the things that's happened also with the virtual pin stuff is that we started looking at this and saying, okay, well, what is going to be the smoothest way if you've already got a virtual pin, what's the smoothest way to get these things online so that you're not having to go through a laborious process for every table? And we're working, that's part of our thought process.
    25:17
    Yeah. So, yeah, things like persistent login and how all that works. The tables themselves are authenticating similar to a way a user authenticates, but it's unique to its table because we need to have confidence that it's the table it says it is so that one person can't spoof another person's scores and so on and so forth. There's a lot of reasons why we do it that way. But it but it does make it challenging. So it's not you logged in on the VPN. It's the VPN logged in as the VPN.
    26:02
    And so it's a it's an app is where you log in. I think I'm making sense. Yeah, you are. And, you know, the fishbowl, I'm really happy to see that you're the fishbowls probably going to do a lot of answering in chat. Jay's going to try and help about answering verbally about scorebit issues. I'll try. Well, it's tough because, okay, so now we're in a situation which I welcome because that's why I wanted to dedicate the entire stream to just talking about scorebit and virtual pinball integration in that everyone has questions, right? You can see everyone's, like Paladin's already like, any thoughts about adding a VPN type filter in the app? And I think these are all great to have.
    26:47
    And Jay, I think, just addressed it, right? A lot of things need to get done and a lot of things will get done, but it has to be all prioritized and made seamless for the user.
    27:02
    And I think, you know, I don't work for Score a bit, but I see how these guys work. They want you to have as little friction between playing and enjoying yourself with your friends and pinball and the way it works.
    27:19
    I agree. You want a frictionless… And Scorbit and Multimorphic, we are talking to those guys. Yeah, I mean, Scorbit and anybody out there we're talking to. I, um, the, the thing about score bit also to bear in mind is that, uh, you know, app is free. It's not like we have, it doesn't help us to increase friction, right? We, we, uh, we think that there's a lot of clever tricks we can do, um, to make it smoother. You know, our 1.29 release is in beta right now, but the 1.3 release will have a new version of AutoClaim that you can start, you can connect into your VPN, right? And tap into the very first game and say, okay, I'm Manu and it's, you know, I'm playing. And then stick the app in your pocket and forget about it. And it will save every score as long as there's not greater than a certain amount of time between two games when it resets. And that way you don't have to like constantly be claiming the slots for every single game with the app open.
    28:35
    Things like that are just, I guess we're just getting it out. So if you're a React Native developer and you're looking for something to do,
    28:43
    you have a giant backlog. All right. What else we got? Do you think, you know, I know we talked earlier about, you know, what you know what what we would kind of say like options for other people to build right you know you talked about the dmds and all that work i'm like hey here's all the dmds that are supported but you know one one question i guess you know i think people would probably be curious about just like you know do you think they're you know you're going to get to a point where you know it will kind of turn it over to the community and say like hey if anybody wants to add any new dmv table here's the tools to do it if anybody wants to add achievements here's to do it here's the 100% because I've gotten a few of those questions on the in the back and so I was just like well you know we've talked but I don't know what's final or not you know yeah I mean there's really two levels of it right so if you think about like color dmd when they kind of launched their product and pinned to DMD, and you got folks who were colorizing frames, right?
    29:50
    And they crowdsourced all of that. Whether it was an open source, sort of open community thing, or it was closed, like in the case of Color DMD, they went to the community and the community did the work to do that.
    30:06
    And I think we want to do the same thing with achievements. I guess to add some clarity, though, specifically when it comes to sort of UGC or user-generated content, we want to also have like the master. Like if somebody were to adopt, you know, Twilight Zone and create the first release of the master achievements for Twilight Zone. we both want to be able to change that master list from time to time, add achievements from time to time, you know, that are kind of condoned by the community or whatever. But we also want to allow individuals to create achievements that are specifically from the community that are funny, or they might be specific to a venue or specific to a location or a country or a time or an event. And so our achievement platform lets you do all of those things right now in terms of its structure. And so I think part of it is allowing people to contribute to the master, but part of it is for everyone to have their own customer, if that makes sense. Yeah, the DoF framework that we use in VPN world is almost that. We can create a new table and we can submit it and say, here's how all the LEDs and everything work. general and then users can come in and say I want to create take that and I want to customize it for me right and they can you know and you could you can share that out with people you know in ways but typically but there's a master right and then everybody else get branches of it but there's a more custom it'd be nice easy nice to have an easier way to share those but it seems like it fit perfect with kind of your achievements if you did it that way I know, like, just talking about that. And the artwork, sure. By the way, pixel art, turns out, is really hard.
    32:10
    That's why they paid him the big bucks. I was at Pinball Expo, and I was sitting next to the guys who did the pixel art for the new Cactus Canyon remake from Chicago Gaming. Those guys are amazing They really amazing they had been a lot of those guys came from the Capcom pinball machines Oh nice Yeah and so you know and I was just talking to guys about pixel art and to them it's like, it's just, it's straightforward. Like, it's hard for them to imagine a world where they don't know how to do pixel art. I try and do a simple four shade or three shade, you know, badge on a DMD and it looks so bad. It's just not something I'm skilled at. So we're going to. So we actually partnered with a guy named Olivier Galeas, who created Pinball Browser. Oh, yeah. Awesome stuff. It's really, really cool. And for those of you who don't know what Pinball Browser is, for people who own games that are both EMDs and even modern Sterns, he created software that allows you to edit the songs and the videos and the graphics on these games and even burn them back onto the ROMs. But what was great about his work is that his application actually is already capable of, like, you can tell at what palette. This is a White Star game, or this is a Sam game, or this is a WPC game, or a Spike One game.
    33:53
    And his DMD frame editor will conform to that palette. And so we've already done it. So the latest version of Pinball Browser can connect to our achievement platform. And if you have a special score bit permissions, you can pull down all the achievements into Pinball Browser and then edit frames for every for every for every badge that comes out.
    34:21
    Which we are very grateful to Olivier for for helping us with that. That was wonderful work. I think you'd be surprised how many people actually know Pinball Browser in this group.
    34:36
    In this wretched hive of scum and villainy in here. They're like, oh, we know Pinball Browser. It is. I mean, Olivier has been amazing. and for those who know a little bit about how DMD works, if you talk to Freezy and to the folks who have been doing all these extensions, DMDs are complicated and there's a lot of different ones. And Olivier also helped us with our embedded hardware code that can talk to all these different DMD types, auto-detect which one it is, translate the frames so that the score which one has all the frames which we will manu eventually stream for you but um but in the short term that is all that work will just speed up v-pin development like crazy nice so thanks olivier yeah so uh go ahead the fishbowl you're gonna say something i was just saying yep all right thanks olivier man it's a phenomenal piece of software yeah it's been it's been great and yeah i saw somebody mentioning stern in the chat you know you know we love those guys and man you know i i have to say i i have now that i've played guardians now that none i've seen what is physically possible uh you know my question for The view to Fishbowl is why not add – I mean we can add things to it that they just couldn't get around to adding. Like it's a perfect homage, but can we have like the plus plus version that adds like the extra multi-ball? Don't worry. There's going to be – Jay, there's going to be – every achievement that you can get in Insider Connected is going to be on this one plus more.
    36:31
    Plus more. I've already got like 10 new ones well I know that Insider Connected has let's just say they're more confined in terms of what their licensing deals lets them do exactly here's the thing about Stern no one's here to crap on anybody everyone is in this game for a reason I think Jay hit the number one. One of the number one things that Stern has to contend with is all this licensing crap. Right. That's really hard.
    37:09
    Yeah. You would not believe how difficult it is. And I'm a small time video producer. I do post production. If I screw up a company's logo by one pixel, I have to throw it all away and do it over again. Can you imagine dealing with Disney, with Marvel, with these huge companies?
    37:34
    So, yeah, I mean, it's got to be incredibly difficult. Actually, I know it is because our co-founder at Scorbit works for works for one of those licensors and not to mention any names. But but but it's but it's got to be really hard. The one thing I love about the vintage games that we work on, sort of the older games, is that those companies don't exist anymore. And the nature of what we do doesn't actually change anything on the games, and we don't reuse.
    38:10
    Who is that? Oh, Mr. Hardluck. Hey, Mr. Hardluck. Recognize that song. So again, the nature doesn't change? It doesn't change. And so like we're we have all these I think it allows us to be really have a really good time with things like achievements and and what we do, because.
    38:38
    It's not like it's not like there's going to be a ROM update for Theater of Magic tomorrow. It's going to have a bunch of achievements on it. Right. You know, it's it's that's up to somebody else to do in the future. Although I would love to see the original pinball game designers. Well, I don't know about all of them, but. But join in on this, you know, be able to say, hey, you know, I created that game in 1981.
    39:10
    Steve Ritchie works for Jersey Jack Pinball. Like, let's have him do Black Knight 2000 achievements. Yeah. Well, that would be interesting. Jay, can you speak really quick about, because I see there's a parallel, I think, between, Fliptronic was asking earlier about multimorphic and, hey, can they use SCORBIT? So can you speak a little bit about how it's not just use score a bit, but there is, I think you already mentioned this a couple times. There's some work to be done on the other side of the fence, kind of. Yeah.
    39:51
    Yeah, I think that the answer is, well, first of all, the answer is yes, yes, yes. So what we've done is we've created a cloud service that has a bunch of rules and a bunch of definitions.
    40:07
    So when DeFishbowl was doing his work and getting Guardians connected, what we did was we said, OK, this is how you need to speak to the cloud. And this is the identifier you call yourself. and and whereas before we had a finite list of machines so there's already an id inside of scorebit for the physical world guardians so we needed to create an id that was specific to the virtual world guardians because we don't want those leaderboards to be intertwined and now if you create a home pin or homebrew rather and it's a it's its original title of which there is one in the world or two in the world we need to have that identifier um and then once we've created that identifier for you and you could just go into our discord and say hey i'm doing this give me a number and we'll give you that number um and then it's a question of the software development that you need to do to talk to our cloud service. Yep.
    41:20
    You know, and I think to Fishbowl, you had the first version of it working really fast, if I recall. Yeah, it's a good API. It's pretty easy, clean, and simple. The hardest part is getting your token and working out those UUIDs. Yes, that's right. Yeah, because remember I said every machine has to be unique. That is an issue. And they all have to be connected to the Internet, obviously. And they have to have network time, pretty reliable network time. And one of the things that I think we ran into was some of the nuances of Visual Basic and Windows that we created some workarounds and you dance that dance perfectly. and then now if you're creating something new one of the things you have to think about is well are there pieces of what the fishbowl did and what will be done for the roms uh for vpens that could be used for both a virtual or physical original title that you're creating right right and we just don't want to have to reinvent the wheel over and over and over again uh and so partly that's that's That's what we're rushing to do is to get it to a point where people can just download it and make it go. But I should clarify one thing, which is that we do have users who have created machines like a cyclone that they have a virtual pin for, and they created it in Scorebit and started posting scores because on the score bit app you don't have to be connected to score bit directly and you can take a photo of your score and then submit that score as an original score for a particular game and so we have had some folks who i think were a little confused about what v-pin integration meant and suddenly we had a thousand new titles on there where people were posting scores that, by the way, because the virtual pinball machines look so great, look like original tables. Yeah.
    43:42
    And I'm not going to, you know, we do a lot of honor system. Like one of the nice things about the community is, you know, nobody's going to cheat. Nobody's going to take the glass off and no one's going to take a picture of someone else's score. And if they do, they're going to get shamed off the platform anyway. but that was just an accident.
    44:02
    Eventually we'll get to that point where you'll be able to automatically connect them but in the meantime, you have to wait for these VPN titles to have Scorebit support before you add them as a virtual pin to the Scorebit app.
    44:17
    And we're moving as fast as we can because we'll get that ID table out so you can create those and manually submit scores to them within a couple weeks probably from now. And then you'll be able to... Oh, look, I got a bunch of score bits. Hey, Brian O'Neill. That's Brian. That was my co-host, Brian.
    44:41
    And I just love that. Is that his song? Yes, yes. Welcome to the stream. What's Jay's song? Jay doesn't have a... Jay, you could... I need 10,000 points. Yeah, he doesn't have enough points. I've been collecting, but I'm not getting any point increases this time. I'll tell you what. The point system is the point system.
    45:06
    No, I have to watch more of your streams. I have to do it. It's got it. Hey, fiends. So speaking to what Jay and DeFishball are talking about, we're we're this community is basically a train racing down a track that is being built in front of it right now okay and these guys are building the track as fast as they can but but this is the analogy that i can think about currently we have um hey mima so right now there's a jet and it's flying and Brian O'Neill is on the outside of the jet and he's got a paint pan and he's painting the Scorpion logo on the side of the jet as it's flying that is what is happening right now Oh my god, Mima. Okay, so thank you for that, Jay. So what we have right now is we have the first table, the visual pinball. DeFishball wrote some code that can talk to score a bit, right? I think, DeFishball, you can correct me if I'm wrong, there's someone developing some code for future pinball? yes there is a guy who was working on the future pinball although he hit a snag because it um they have security um and their their vb stuff that uh is blocking some things there so uh we're gonna have to probably boil that down to a library that gets pulled into future pinball uh i'm gonna go down that route so um yeah we're looking at that right now top men top top men um and uh on the other so we got the tribute table which is like kind of what pin credibles has been doing we've got future pinball work and then the total homebrews the total uh original creations like what the fishbowl just mentioned with blood machines which is the next table that has scoreboard integration. It's actually being beta'd right now. Paladin put up a huge score and now I got that crap on my phone. Did it beat your score?
    47:54
    Hell yeah. I think it would behoove all of us to check in on who else is doing some of this work because you don't want to have to rewrite everything that the fishbowl wrote, right? That's right. That's correct. So that's where, right, the train, the track, the whole thing.
    48:17
    Part of that is why I have this. Yeah. And what we're going to do is we're going to have to create some user interface around a lot of this, like on Scorebit's tools website because right now if you go to tools.scorebit.io, So there a developer section but the developer section requires that you get a developer token then gives you access to the developer documentation But it was designed around a different use case It was designed around people creating apps like to integrate with Twitch so you could send a message to somebody DMD that kind of stuff right If you creating something for a VPN it kind of like you're a pinball manufacturer. From our perspective, you look exactly the same as Jersey Jack Pinball or as Stern. Well, you look like Jersey Jack Pinball. And as a result of that, Like we have a different set of documentation, but it's really oriented around a physical game. You know, like some of the assumptions we have about about things like, you know, what your your hardware is doing. And so we have what we really need to do is we need to create a virtual pin set of set of documentation. But on the other hand, if we get the major platform, you know, like future and VPX and VPE and all these different kind of, you know, environments, get the pup pack stuff all squared away. as we as we do that what i hope to have happen is that we just don't have to have manufacturers anymore that now you can then take all of that work and then customize it on a per table basis or if you roll out a new a new version that's what i'd like to get to so that on the network side we don't have to keep rewriting and rewriting rewriting um and in fact uh the the code that's going to run on the ROM-based games to connect to SCORBIT is actually being written. Well, there's a couple of pieces to it. The Freezy will help with the integration with the DPDs. But Dilshod is going to be writing and moving our code that runs on a SCORBITRON. We're going to use that same core code to run on a VPN. So it's going to be, it's going to be pretty slick, but there's a lot of work to do. Brian's going to do all of it. Yeah, Brian showed up late. So you're going to do all of it. The fishbowl I haven't, I don't, you know me, I got out of the code business years ago i don't want to look at any code um but is it um are these uh classes and stuff something that for the time being can be put on github so that other people can at least access them yeah and so i i think um i've made a few tweaks since we've had uh guardians beta but i took those all the pieces and i zipped them up i have a little document that i have with it that i i was just gonna i was looking for a place to upload i didn't know if jay if you wanted to upload those to some vpn tool site or we just want to put it on github either way i have i can create i've got we've got repos and i can i can create a repo for uh for you if you like and um if that's the best way if that's or i could or i can host the files on on uh on our tool site whatever works it'd be nice to just because i mean i version it and everything and i also have that python you remember when i was having issues so i have a whole python class right that does a to z right so if somebody wants to do any of this here's a a to z example you can just download and run and tweak to your heart's content right and uh and so i think we i think that'd be good just to get those uploaded now i i we've made most of the tweaks we need to do to this i we found one more the other day when we're integrating blood machines and so i added that update to the vb code and so but yeah i think it'd be good to just zip those up and post those so people can understand oh here's the kit if i want to integrate it to a homebrew i'm good if i want to do a rom base that's coming you know and so it's kind of like an sdk site like what we uh what we have sort of lack it's like a part of we partly want an sdk but then we know we do all this work to create the perfectly dialed in sdk and then we'd be done and then you know because there's not like hundreds of manufacturers there's only a few but but uh like for example nick baldridge um for multimorphic well not for officially for what he wrote an sdk that allows multimorphic developers to put those tables on to score bit and he just posted on pin side and we we didn't even look at it first you know he just posted on pin side i i'm sure it works um you know but like we what would be nice about curating it and putting it on a website with all the files is that then when you want to change it and you have an update you can post the latest version there and that sort of thing. It's a really good idea. And I'm sure Brian will get right on it. I'm saying that because I know he's in the chat list. I figure I can assign him tasks without his permission. I think one of the things, and we're going to be wrapping up soon.
    54:09
    I think one of the things that should be a takeaway from this conversation, though, is that some people kind of understood that it's a lot of work and it's not just like a plug-in go and Scorbit doesn't need to know anything about it kind of thing. It's not that.
    54:30
    Scorbit is going to try not to give you a lot of friction to do it, but there has to be a handshake on both sides because clearly you guys know that this Guardian's Table has, and it doesn't have to do with versions. It has to do with the fact that this Guardian's Table exists and has an ID over the fence in Scorbit. And for Scorbit to understand what's going on, it has to match the ID of this table to their ID. Therefore, it's not as simple as, well, since one happens, they all happen.
    55:03
    So this conversation is a little about having a little clarity about that. and um um it's and it's it's important to understand the reason why that is true is because scorebit is a live platform it's not just a leaderboard there are other leaderboards out there that you could use to post scores and high scores that people share and visualize scorebit is actually live closer more akin to you know an mmo or a or you know a mobile game with multiple players at the same time, and that the scorebit is aware of your specific table state at any point. And so we have folks playing in Australia, and we have folks in Germany who are watching those live games as the scores are increasing and triggering events based on that kind of thing. So it's a live platform. And because of that, every table has to be unique in our universe and be identifiable and addressable. And that's a huge piece. Not to mention the fact that when you start getting into tournaments, which we do, and we totally, you know, the folks like Match Play and Never Drains are integrated with Scorebit, it's really important that we take security seriously and identity seriously and, you know, be trusted. And so that's part of the whole way that it works. sorry it's more complicated but also it's free so that important safety tip this is also free and so we have to kind of like control the data as it's coming in we don't get overwhelmed um and uh and our visualizations on scorebit vision work perfectly for the vpins as well yes indeed there it is that's a live scorebit vision view of guardians which is it's super live like i picked it up on ball too so yeah i mean and it and it allows anyone in the world to be visualizing that at the same time which is not trivial uh and so that's that's some fun stuff the leaderboards are also something you can do you can put them in your game room you could unify all of your stuff onto single leaderboards and scoreboards the coolest thing jay the coolest thing i've seen so far when i was at this is gonna sound presumptuous but i'm sorry when i was at scott denisi's house sorry i was at scott denisi's house i'm sorry um he had just hanging out he had a screen with all his scoreboard scoreboard games boom and it was just like whoa that's freaking baller that was cool and it's not hard to do that no it's and it's yeah scorbit vision is sv.scorbit.io anyone anyone who has a scorbit account which is a free astro there yeah and create stuff i just fixed it too so that makes me even more likely to plug it nice let's just see yeah astro's right who hasn't been to scott denisi's house it's like not a big deal i haven't i haven't I guess we're just Scott so I guess it's no surprise the next table that is in development right now is Blood Machines once again that's going to be live man I don't think there's no other table that deserves to be on score but Blood Machines that is going to be a bloodbath to get to a good score on a leaderboard on that one I'm scared Like, do not send me a challenge on blood machines because I will run away.
    58:56
    Is there anything – He's been working hard on that. I've been trying to – I've been helping him a little bit here and there, but he's been – they don't have Pup. So he's trying to – he's had to work around getting the QR code, and he's done some cool work.
    59:15
    That's some serious – it's – you know, we throw some cool stuff out there. complications all those shortcuts you took to make things work faster we completely destroy yeah yeah you know like but it's it's cool they found a way so that's great i i'm i want to get one of these uh uh cabinets i don't know if i have quite the skills that manu has to you know assemble a v-pin myself completely had had had did you or did you not build that table yourself i i built it myself but this was a long time ago jay this was more than 10 years ago um and then when i needed to do you want yeah when i needed some upgrades i had to talk to game club central and really smart people like um um paladin and uh who's the guy that makes my lock bar light the french dude oh yeah oh my god somebody help me in chat who's a wonderful french arnaz there you go there you go arnaz please go to arnaz and buy his stuff um So, yeah. But, all right. Is there anything else? Because I do have to shut it down. Thank you guys so much for both of you being here.
    60:46
    Sure. His stuff actually sucks. Let's just, you know, do another plug. Earlier in the chat, Flipstream posted our Discord for Scorbit. it on the score bit discord we have a virtual pin developer channel where folks like to fishbowl and others are hanging out from time to time if you're lucky and if you have questions if you want to integrate your own if you want to contribute to the project please go on there and check it out and I think honestly the best way to move these things faster is for everyone to work together on it and get this thing out the door and we'll we are committed at Scorbit on the virtual pen universe what am I I'm like trying to figure out what there it is the Scorbit logo you don't even remember connected to the future version of penball We rehearsed this, Jay. Oh, my God. I feel like it was the time was about to happen.
    62:00
    The score of it, you are connected. Future and the past of pinball. Now we have to start all over again. Cue cards. Okay, take two. Take two. All right. Welcome. No, we're not doing that again. I have to take my almost done with COVID butt back to the bedroom and go to sleep. thank you guys thank you jay adelson of scorebit thank you brian o'neill for jumping in the chat thank you to fishbowl richard thank you ron richards thank you to fishbowl rehearsal accomplished thank you to fishbowl for the endless amounts of uh patience with me and mostly me and uh there's a lot of patience for score it's all good it's all good just code Just code Can somebody in chat please Make a t-shirt That's Like DeFishables Like Guardians of like Quill Saying it's just code Please it's just code baby What's up L. Robinson That's my buddy Alright guys thank you so much I'm going to let you guys go And make sure Make sure you've seen that link in Discord to the Scorbit Discord. Thank you once again, and I will see you guys probably maybe Thursday or maybe not. It will be Thanksgiving. I think I'm going to take the day off.
    63:48
    Thank you.