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BDYETP 69: Toy Story Revealed, Spinal Tap in Production, NFT Pinball, Seeking a Whale, Al's Almost Here, No Fear Review

Bro, Do you Even Talk Pinball·podcast_episode·1h 40m·analyzed·Jul 3, 2022
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Toy Story 4 revealed; Spinal Tap in production; NFT pinball exists; industry drama continues.

Summary

Kevin Manne and Nick Lane discuss the reveal of Toy Story 4 by Jersey Jack Pinball, positioning it as accessible to casual players while offering depth for hardcore enthusiasts. The episode covers production updates on Spinal Tap, an NFT-themed pinball machine at Barcade, and community drama including John Greatwich seeking $100k for an unlicensed prototype and debates over reviewing games without knowing source material.

Key Claims

  • Toy Story 4 features a mini pinball game in the playfield based on the 'Tiki Party' machine scene from the Toy Story 4 movie

    high confidence · Kevin Manne, discussing game features he verified after rewatching the film

  • Toy Story 4 pricing is $12,000 for Limited Edition and $15,000 for Collector's Edition with no standard Pro tier option

    high confidence · Kevin Manne citing pricing structure directly

  • Jersey Jack has been running Guns N' Roses production for two years and may be trying to find sustainable capacity by raising prices

    medium confidence · Kevin Manne speculating on business strategy

  • John Greatwich posted seeking $100,000 from a 'whale' investor for a licensed one-of-a-kind prototype with March 2023 completion target

    high confidence · Kevin and Nick reading from Pinside forum thread directly

  • David Fix of American Pinball was shown the Greatwich project at a show and is not pursuing it

    high confidence · Greatwich's own Pinside post claiming Fix was given first crack

  • Spinal Tap is in production with initial run of 4 units planned

    medium confidence · Kevin Manne discussing playfield photos from Pinball News/Magazine

  • An NFT-themed pinball machine called 'Escape from the Metaverse' debuted at Barcade in New York City

    high confidence · Nap Arcade's report cited by the hosts

  • Halloween (Spooky) has been out for approximately one year by the time of this July 2022 podcast

    medium confidence · Nick Lane estimate during Halloween discussion segment

  • Ballerama halted production while relocating to a new house

    medium confidence · Kevin Manne noting lack of Ballerama updates and apparent production pause

Notable Quotes

  • “Way too rich for my blood. Zero interest in theme. It's got that Jersey Jack polish. It didn't, to me, it didn't seem like there was any amazing toy in it, ironically enough.”

    Nick Lane @ ~12:00 — Summarizes skepticism toward Toy Story 4 despite Jersey Jack's production quality

  • “It's a great carrot on a stick kind of thing where it's like, you know you can get there, but getting there is not easy. But you're always like pretty close.”

    Kevin Manne @ ~18:30 — Describes the compelling difficulty balance and replayability of Toy Story 4's main mode

  • “If this was any good or there's anything dave would have like snatched it up”

    Kevin Manne @ ~48:00 — Cynical assessment of Greatwich's claim that David Fix was offered the project first

  • “people don't get to be multi-millionaires for the most part by not caring about a hundred thousand dollars it's quite the opposite”

    Kevin Manne @ ~52:00 — Logical critique of Greatwich's pitch to attract 'whale' investors indifferent to large sums

  • “This is not a J-pop hair-brained idea. This is Wildcat. This is a 100% original of my own hair-brained idea.”

    Nick Lane (paraphrasing Greatwich/quoting Wildcat comment) @ ~56:00 — Community mockery of Greatwich's project comparing it unfavorably to Papa Duke's failed ventures

  • “how could you enjoy a movie without playing a pinball game don't you those things are obviously intertwined”

    Nick Lane @ ~72:00 — Sarcastic rebuttal to critic claiming he can't review Halloween without seeing the film

  • “The game is garbage in terms of basically shots, layout, rules. The audio and visual production is garbage.”

    Nick Lane @ ~88:00 — Clarification of his actual critical position on Halloween after previous stream appearance caused confusion

  • “NFT pinball. That's pinball, man.”

    Kevin Manne — Resigned acknowledgment of absurd but real existence of NFT-themed pinball

Entities

Toy Story 4gameJersey Jack PinballcompanyPat LawlorpersonKevin MannepersonNick LanepersonSpinal TapgameJohn GreatwichpersonDavid Fixperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Toy Story 4 officially revealed and in customers' hands; Kevin has had it for ~2 weeks and is actively streaming gameplay

    high · Kevin states 'I've had it for about two weeks now' and discusses playing it extensively; references Bro Show streaming and Monday night streams

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jersey Jack eliminated Pro/Standard tier; now offers only Limited Edition ($12k) and Collector's Edition ($15k) with no entry-level option

    high · Kevin: 'There is just the limited edition and the collector's edition. The limited edition is 12,000. The collector's edition is $15,000. So no small change here.'

  • ?

    business_signal: Kevin speculates Jersey Jack may be using pricing strategy to manage capacity given 2-year Guns N' Roses production run and stated goal of 2 games/year

    medium · Kevin: 'if they want to get on a cadence of doing two games a year, they're not going to be able to keep doing that. And if they can't hire enough people...then maybe this is trying to find that'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Toy Story 4 designed with accessible entry-level appeal plus hidden depth for competitive/hardcore players; main mode (Meet Me at the Carousel) requires 2 playthroughs with optional challenge completion

    high · Kevin: 'It's designed to appeal to a wider base but I think there's enough in there for the hardcore...There's a lot up front...cool, satisfying stuff for first time players. But if you really want to dig into it...you have to play it for a long time'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Toy Story 4 integrates movie narrative (characters enter Tiki Party pinball machine) into playfield feature with mini-game mode and LCD screen element

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.301

0:00
Coming up on this episode of Bro, Do You Even Talk Pinball? Toy Story 4 has been revealed. It's out. We played it. Talk about that a little bit. Got news and updates. And then finally, what everybody in the world has been waiting for for almost 30 years is a review of Williams No Fear. All that and more coming right up. Devils to Puggett!
0:30
I need a ramp. I need a loop. I want targets I can hit. I need the scoop. I need a double super jetpack in my life.
0:46
That's right. And now, the Hall and Oates of Pinball Podcasting, Nick Lane and Kevin Manning of Buffalo Pinball. boom shakalaka it's us welcome to another episode episode 69 of birdie even talk pinball for saturday july 2nd 2022 i'm kevin manny that's nick lane what's going on everybody what's going on yo it's your boys it's your boys nick and kevin we're back uh hit like and subscribe uh sub and like influencers we're influencers There's shit on a pinball. Where is it? Here it is.
1:32
Yo, what's up, pinball players? There you go. Everybody's going to love that intro. What's up, everybody? Welcome to July, actually. Happy almost birthday, America. We've almost made it to 250 years, so we're getting there. We're doing good.
1:51
So far. How's your summer been going, Nick? yeah it's been going i got covet a couple weeks ago so boom that was that was fun i still got a nice covet cough that's lingering so maybe you guys might get treated to that we'll see got a good microphone so you can really enjoy that i got my i got mine out of the way back in december so hopefully that'll be it but you never know you never know what this stuff yeah but uh yeah i've been i've been enjoying it i've been playing a ton of disc golf me and jeffrey and martha we're like we're gonna be on tour next year i like it so is there a uh What is your – is there like a go-to course for you guys around here, or do you try different ones? That's a good question. So Buffalo is – Buffalo is pretty good in terms of like options for courses. I'm actually going today to a place called Bond Lake, which is – last I checked it was like number 33 in the world. Oh, nice. It's like a half an hour from here.

Toy Story 4 rules are less complex than other Jersey Jack games and comparable in approachability to Dialed In!!

medium confidence · Kevin Manne's assessment based on playing the machine for ~2 weeks

@ ~40:00

  • “there's always going to be the papadukes like it's not going to stop so buckle up and enjoy the ride”

    Nick Lane @ ~60:00 — Acceptance of recurring industry pattern of failed projects and unrealistic pitches

  • “I wasn't just seen on stream playing Halloween and visibly enjoying it and having positive things to say. LOL, GTFOH”

    Anonymous Spooky thread commenter (quoted by Nick) @ ~70:00 — Example of community misinterpretation and personal attack that sparked the larger discussion

    • American Pinball
    company
    Escape From The Megaversegame
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Nap Arcadeperson
    Jean-Paul de Winperson
    Unlock Audiocompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Halloweengame
    Patrickperson
    [name withheld pending review]game
    Dialed In!game
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Wildcatperson
    Brad Dukeperson
    Barcadevenue
    Pinsideorganization

    high · Kevin: 'in the movie they actually go inside a pinball machine...called Tiki Party and that's the machine you play in the little mini video mode so that's actually a pretty cool theme integration'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Spinal Tap pinball in production with initial run of ~4 units; features dual display system (LCD + DMD), fluorescent/LED light bar on side, High-Speed style playfield inserts

    medium · Kevin showing playfield photos: 'It's got this weird light bar thing on the left side...they went down to Home Depot and got an LED bar and stuck it in there'

  • ?

    community_signal: John Greatwich seeking $100k 'whale' investor for unlicensed prototype with vague value proposition; post heavily mocked on Pinside as delusional; parallels drawn to failed projects (Papa Duke, Ballerama)

    high · Greatwich's Pinside post offering unlicensed prototype; community responses like Wildcat's: 'This is a 100% original of my own hair-brained idea'; Kevin: 'this guy just wants to make a pinball machine and somebody just to throw money at him'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: NFT-themed pinball machine exists and debuted publicly; hosts express near-universal industry skepticism toward NFT value proposition and game purpose

    high · Kevin: 'this is puke'; Nick: 'I want nothing to do with nfts nothing to do with all coins...none of that shit'; both express inability to understand NFT value beyond 'community'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community dispute over Nick's Halloween review accuracy; Nick clarifies he was not praising game on stream but rather saying it 'wasn't a complete piece of shit'; broader discussion of whether source material knowledge is required for game reviews

    high · Nick: 'I don't think i was praising halloween on the stream i was basically saying this is not a complete piece of shit like everybody said it was'; critic response: 'Not sure how you can honestly review a pin of a movie you've never seen'

  • ?

    content_signal: Kevin planning to stream new machine (possibly Weird Owl) next Monday in addition to Toy Story 4 Monday night streams

    medium · Kevin: 'this next Monday night I've got something new that we're going to be streaming as long as I can get it all set up and installed right I got my weird owl so we're going to talk about that in a little bit too'

  • ?

    product_concern: Nick expresses lack of interest in Spinal Tap design; hosts note both LED bar addition and dual display approach seem ad-hoc rather than intentional design

    medium · Kevin: 'they went down to Home Depot and got an LED bar and stuck it in there'; 'I feel like they're just gonna like put a bunch of movie clips on the big screen and that's it'

  • $

    market_signal: Implied references to collector disappointment with Toy Story 4 theme choice (Toy Story 4 specifically, not original); early community reaction mixed despite brand recognition

    medium · Kevin: 'i i was along with everybody else a little disappointed when i first saw the theme everybody was just thinking toy story and then it's like oh toy story 4 what is uh the fourth one out of all of them'

    • 2:42
    There's a course that's like a 12-hole course in the park that's like five minutes from us. So we kind of go all over. we have certain ones we like but um yeah disc golf is awesome it's free it's like the poor person's uh golf and i i grew up playing regular golf and like if you go on i know you're not a golfer kev but like golf is like stupid expensive that like around like probably 45 50 bucks like on low end average um this golf is free nice you know a disc is like anywhere like 10 bucks you 30 bucks you're you're good all right well that's your uh disc golf update you Can you show your Latte Larry's mug? I like that mug. Oh, shit, that's right. That's good. It's appropriate. It is. How I fucking roll, man. That's how Nick operates. All right, so why don't we kick it off with some news here. Here's the tip. It's the latest pinball news. So hot, it's on fire. All right, the big news of the month is that Toy Story 4 has been revealed and released by Jersey Jack Pinball. It's number seven from Jersey Jack. um it's a pat lawler game with uh joe katz was the lead on code uh pat youse john yousey is the uh artist and it's a it's toy story 4 so um i think i i was along with everybody else a little disappointed when i first saw the theme everybody was just thinking toy story and then it's like oh toy story 4 what is uh the fourth one out of all of them um but i have one uh here let me see uh i mean yeah you can you can't see it it's over there it's just past tron um it's it's a it's a fun game so i actually really like the theme now that i own it and i've so i've had it for about two weeks now and so the the game is set in the carnival of toy story 4 so um I had forgotten that movie came out in 2019, so it's pretty recent. I was thinking it was like in the 20-aughts, you know, before 2010. But no, it's a fairly recent movie. I went back and rewatched it to kind of get ready for the game, and I forgot that they actually – so one of the features of the game is the screen on the play field in the kind of back corner there, and you can play a mini game of pinball in there. And I was like, that's weird. it's like Jersey Jack's first video mode but it makes sense in the theme of the game because in the movie they actually go inside a pinball machine I had forgotten that so they go inside the machine called Tiki Party and that's the machine you play in the little mini video mode so that's actually a pretty cool theme integration I think you don't play along like pinball inside your pinballs like whatever but it's over quick in your back end of pinball and you get a cool multi-ball out of it if you complete it so i like that um the game comes in two packages let me let me switch back here so you guys can see um the limited edition and the collector's edition the collector's edition has a topper it's got red powder coating versus the blue on the uh on the le uh let's see enhancement this is from pinball news enhancements on the collector's edition are mostly cosmetic with a different art package on the cabinet, back box and back glass, while the collector's edition has an animated topper, a mirrored back glass. Well, oh, yeah.
    6:13
    See, the LE has a back glass but not mirrored. External cabinet lighting, radcals, cabinet decals, interior art blades, custom shooter knob, additional RGB lighting, sparkle effect on the play field, and additional Bo Peep speech call-outs.
    6:28
    Art for the game is by John Yowsey. Display artwork and animation by John Paul DeWin, which is amazing as always. And sound design is by Unlock Audio. So I didn't know who that was. Do you get that Bo Peep? You get the Bo Peep. So Unlock Audio does a lot of video game audio packages, including, again, I play the Killer Queen Black for consoles and arcades. So that's cool.
    6:55
    So I got this. We played it on the Bro Show. Nick, what are your first impressions of Toy Story after, what, four or five games, right? That's a pinball. It is a pinball machine. Way too rich for my blood. Zero interest in theme. It's got that Jersey Jack polish. It didn't, to me, it didn't seem like there was any amazing toy in it, ironically enough. Like, it's got the jump ramp, which is fine. I mean, it's a nice smooth shot. I like it. I like how the posts come up. But there's nothing really cool in the game that grabbed my attention. But I had fun shooting it. I thought it shot well. It's kind of an open play field.
    7:36
    That's very descriptive. Not necessarily a take on it. But it was fun to play. I had a pretty good time playing it. The theme does absolutely nothing for me because I'm an adult.
    7:50
    Technically. I mean, I'm an adult and I really like the theme. Did you beat the game yet? uh no because the game's actually much harder than people think it is it's relatively easy to get to meet me at the carousel the first time but there's actually two paths so to to beat the game you have to go back there a second time as buzz lightyear um and if you really want to do it you want to complete all of the tasks on your way there not just not just start them right so um you could just start all of the things and get there. And then, so the, the meet me at the carousel is cool too, because you can, you can get there, but it's, it's a long mode. So to actually get through it too is, um, is a challenge. So I've gotten there twice.
    8:40
    The second time I got there, um, I got further in it, but still didn't beat the first path, uh, the, the way path of, of meet me at the carousel. So it's actually been a good, so I've been playing the hell out of this game. I love it. Um, It's a great carrot on a stick kind of thing where it's like, you know you can get there, but getting there is not easy. But you're always like pretty close. It's like, oh, if I had done one or two more things, I could have gotten there. Let me try again. And it does a good job at the end of the game. It puts up on the screen the main like six tasks that you're supposed to do. I think it's six. And it shows how many you've accomplished, how many you started, and how many you missed out on. And so even the first couple times you play it, it's like, oh, those are the things I need to do. Let me get back in there and try and do those things. So it's a good mix. It's not as – the rules aren't as complicated as some of the other JJPs. It reminds me more of like a dialed in where things are a little more straightforward.
    9:39
    Some Jersey Jacks can get really complicated and intricate. But this is one that I think is more approachable by most folks that just step up to it. yeah this seems like it's a game for the masses like not necessarily the pinball nerd and it's not to say that look i probably spent time with this it's not to say that there isn't stuff in there for the super pinball nerds and you're you're obviously having fun with it but it definitely i think the audience isn't necessarily us is that fair uh i actually would disagree with that i think i think it's designed to appeal to a wider base but i think there's enough in there for the hardcore, like, you know, tournament player, the folks who have been in the hobby a long time, the better players. Because, I mean, Carl streamed Toy Story 4, and I think he got to the second path, but it was like a two-hour game to get there, right? So it's like you got to really play this game if you want to get there. Most people are not going to be able to get to the end of this game. But there's a lot up front where it's like, oh, there's this ramp that pops up that I want to shoot. So there's like cool, satisfying stuff for the first time players. Um, but if you really want to dig into it, um, you, uh, you have to, you have to play it for a long time. So let's see, uh, Toy Story four. Uh, what else, what else can we, uh, it's expensive. Like you said, it's, there's no low end, um, standard edition game anymore. Um, there is just the limited edition and the collector's edition. The limited edition is 12,000. The collector's edition is $15,000. So no small change here.
    11:24
    But I was thinking about this too. I wonder if that was an intentional move by Jersey Jack to, you know, if you raise the price, your profit margin is going to go up per unit and demand is going to go down. So in theory, they're going to turn more profit and have to build fewer machines, do they end up with more revenue in the long run in that way?
    11:52
    It's to be determined, but if they can't meet the capacity, they were running Guns N' Roses for two years, so if they want to get on a cadence of doing two games a year, they're not going to be able to keep doing that. And if they can't hire enough people or they don't have the production capacity to do that, then maybe this is trying to find that. maybe they're just positioning themselves as the high end players in the market you know they're the high dollar manufacturer they're just not going to make as many but they're going to turn a higher profit on each machine so that was just my thinking on that you got an MBA so you know like Kevin's assessment go fuck yourself there you go that's it alright anything else regarding Toy Story so I've been streaming it we did the bro show and then I streamed it again this past Monday night so if you want to see it in action some more tune in on Monday nights although this next Monday night I've got something new that we're going to be streaming as long as I can get it all set up and installed right I got my weird owl so we're going to talk about that in a little bit too just showed up this morning what's next oh we got this amazing pinball machine that everybody is clamoring for the next home pin It's Spinal Tab, so it's on the production line. They're making four of them.
    13:17
    They might sell all four. Well, there's like 20 Shaker Motors here, so maybe they'll sell 20 of them.
    13:25
    This is it. Take your pinball to 11. This was our first glance at the play field. I should – are you seeing the stream, Nick? Can you see this? Yeah, unfortunately. All right. So this is – yeah. You can see, so apparently they have a high-speed getaway as their reference machine in the factory. And you can totally see that in those inserts. The inserts in the middle of the playfield looks just like high-speed.
    13:55
    It's got this weird light bar thing on the left side. And there's actually, let me, if I take it over here, this was from the pinball. Look at that light bar. You know, they're like, let's stick a fluorescent lamp in the game. That'd be cool. They went down to Home Depot and got an LED bar and stuck it in there on the side. So this is a picture from Pinball News and Pinball Magazine, their monthly email update. This is our first head-on shot of the game.
    14:26
    So it's weird, too, because they have a big LCD screen in the back and a DMD. So they have both for some reason. and then it's just really appealing to anybody who's like i like lcds i like dmds like well you can have both of home pin you get it all i i feel like they're just gonna like put a bunch of movie clips on the big screen and that's it and do the rest on the on the dmd i don't know it's so i have no interest in this game but it was there's there's not much pinball news happening every month so this is what we can talk about you get guys this is what you get this is why we do it once a month this is because this is all you get we're committed once a month show if you don't like the content well it's probably because there isn't good content so we're gonna we're gonna power through and be troopers we got we got other stuff we're gonna talk about but we get we gotta check off the boxes when it comes to news um oh god speaking of of more garbage news um here let's go back here it's a if you if you ever like i need a pinball machine based on nft garbage here you go So it's board ape pinball for some reason. This is from Nap Arcade.
    15:38
    He posted the content. He didn't make it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm pulling this news from Nap Arcade. He says, last night an unusual NFT themed pinball machine named Escape from the Megiverse made its public debut at Barcade in New York City. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what this is. I think that says a lot, what we're all thinking. What is this? so it it looks like the layout from their any of their private label games where they're like hey uh can you make me 50 pinball machines they're like yes we have this layout you can have it and we'll customize it to you so it's like star wars or spider-man or supreme any of those games the home versions of those games um but this one is different in that it has the big lcd screen in the back it also has stern insider connected oh my god insider connected which i guess makes sense for a nft themed pinball machine um i don't know like how many of these they're gonna make or if they're gonna be available to the public um nick is our resident um blockchain expert can you explain what the hell an nft is uh first of all i want nothing to do with nfts nothing to do with all coins i want nothing to do with shit coins none of that shit um but yeah i listen i i i i work in that industry not the nfts god no i gotta go take a shower but i've asked people who are into it and i've not been given a satisfactory answer like the only answer that they ever give me is like they like the community just like we like the community like they like the community okay fine but like yeah this is just this is this is puke um this is i think it should be specific where you start off at like a million points and your score just goes down over time until you get to zero.
    17:26
    I hope it's on brand like that. That'd be awesome. Or you get some other sucker to buy the pinball machine off your hands for more than you paid for it.
    17:34
    I've not heard a good explanation of NFTs. That's the best one I got from somebody who's really smart.
    17:40
    Listen, if somebody wants to prove me wrong, I'm fine. I like to learn and listen, but it's whatever it's whatever it's whatever so this is kind of like a recurring theme with um with people who buy these bored apes uh nfts they like are turning them into things it seems like a way to boost the value of it so seth green was like making a cartoon out of his but he's got stolen he's got hacked and stolen and he had to buy it back and there's just an eminem and a Snoop Dogg video that actually has a pinball reference in it, but they like turn into their board apes in the video and things like that. So it's all like, to me, it's smacks of people just trying to boost the value, the value of this NFT garbage that they own in some way to try to make them more valuable and attractive so they can resell them and retain the, the value of what they've invested. But I mean, that, that's all I got NFT pinball. That's that's pinball, man. and yet that exists and uh ballerama does not and deep root does not so there's still a the irony of something that like doesn't really exist and but it's been manufactured into now that it's actually a pinball machine versus deep root and ballerama like there's a lot to wrap your head around there yeah i mean at least this is like a thing that exists that you can own and will you know you can transfer like pinball machine uh the the property that's based on like who cares but There you go. And there's NFC pinball. Uh, what else? So this, this isn't news, but this is a, this is a discussion point. I thought we would, we would all appreciate. So this is, um, this came up in the Buffalo pinball discord, uh, a couple of days ago. So it's a hot topic on pin side. Uh, great, which John is looking for a hundred thousand dollar whale investor for a licensed game. Um, let me just read you the top post on this. It says, uh, looking for a person with money it's for him let me squeeze this in so you can see the whole thing uh looking for a person with money for a prototype fully working and pimped out pinball game it will be one of a kind licensed game that either moves into production or dies to become the one and only game david i'm sold where can i sign up let's go david fix of american pinball was told what i am interested in at the pentastic show last week okay cool like what does that have to do with anything He will get the first crack at it if he's interested. Well, if he's interested, wouldn't he have said so and decided to bring it on and not have you out here looking for $100,000? Maybe. I don't know. If not, it gets floated to other parties or dies as a one-of-a-kind prototype. That's twice he's talked about this project dying. This can realistically be done with a tiny group of people with the needed skills.
    20:32
    I have people already lined up for this to happen. please contact me privately about this and it should be finished March, 2023. All right. So let's start, start your timers March, 2023. So less than a year, they're going to have this done. All he needs is a hundred thousand dollars of your own money to, to throw at this project. And the, the thread replies are good. Well, I like how he like throws out, like I, I I've shown this day fix. Now I've known Dave fix since 2011. I've spent well over a hundred hours with them. Now Dave is with American pinball now. if this was any good or there's anything dave would have like snatched it up all right like potentially right potentially right like why throw that bit in there so obviously dave looked at it and he's not interested american pinball is not interested so what the fuck do you have like this guy is off his rocker it is amazing thread it's good but can we go back i want to go back to the second post on this thread. He says, after people just posted a bunch of GIFs and memes back at him, he says, yes, I talked with a knowledgeable person at the show, along with David Fix. Oh, man. Like, Dave, I know you're probably not listening, but I would message him and be like, what the fuck? So basically he's saying Dave's not knowledgeable. That's his words. That's also Dave's. He's getting downloaded to hell here, too, by the way. By the way, he's, yeah, he's getting slaughtered in this, uh, John Great, which whatever, whatever he's getting slaughtered in this thread, uh, told me the way to go is the rich people that usually do not post here, but see what is going on. People know that I can get numerous pinball pieces done and I get a fully working game done. $100,000 us is the reasonable goal for a one of a kind licensed pinball machine. If it moves into production, it will be a win for those involved.
    22:27
    Where's the value proposition? You know what I mean? This guy's not a designer. This guy doesn't have anything. He has not even indicated he's secured a license. What are you selling exactly?
    22:40
    What is this? It never stops, Kevin. There's so many mental cases in pinball. This one's good. Feel free to reach me personally. And my past pinball production for the last 15 years. Wow, I can't read today. I lost a shitload of money doing stuff well that's reassuring for my $100,000 investment but in the end a lot of stuff was done by me and my contractors I have a very good reputation with pinball parts suppliers and those in the industry now that I am retired I will focus on the goal I always wanted to do a licensed one of a kind pinball machine that may move into production or die this guy just wants to make a pinball machine and somebody just to throw money at him like there you go like what is he like a don't make a wish kid like this is like not how life works dude who knows but any whale is not concerned about a hundred thousand dollars if he is a multi-millionaire this game will be pimped out this is not a j-pop harebrained idea i have a very small shared workshop to get this pinball machine done along with numerous contractors and suppliers for the needed parts people don't get to be multi-millionaires for the most part by not caring about a hundred thousand dollars it's quite the opposite like because they know where to invest and are good with their money usually they can get to the point where they are multi-millionaires so this guy is just this is crazy talk crazy talk on display for everybody it's great yeah it's it's insane if you have a hundred thousand dollars and you're not concerned about it you're like elon musk he's like the only one that doesn't care about a hundred thousand dollars i think and even him I feel like he would probably care about $100,000. Well, you just don't want to do something stupid with your money. That's the thing. Like, it's not rational. There's no value proposition here. There's nothing being sold. Like, yeah, like $100,000, somebody who might be multimillionaire, billionaire, like, that's not a lot of money for them. But they also aren't just looking to burn it and set it on fire, right? Like, that's what he's missing. Just because somebody has a lot of money doesn't mean that you automatically, oh, just write a check for a bad idea.
    24:49
    This is not a J-pop hair-brained idea. This is Wildcat. This is a 100% original of my own hair-brained idea. Nailed it.
    24:59
    Oh yeah Pinball industry It sad because we didn have any Ballorama updates this month other than they went to see Hamilton so that was very exciting And they're getting a new house, apparently, which apparently halts all production of pinball machines.
    25:18
    So it's weird because when Arcade moved from Boston to Chicago, DJP didn't shut down. He just moved, and they kept working. It's weird. you would think that this is parody right you think that this post is parody especially everything that happens and this guy's obviously on pin side he he sees all these other things fall apart he's aware of them and then boom i mean wildcat nailed it with his with his comment but no this is real these and i've said it before and i'll say it again it's just just never going to stop there's always going to be the ball around there's always going to be this john for great which there's always going to be the papadukes like it's not going to stop so buckle up and enjoy the ride with Kevin and Nick. We'll be there to call them out. And it makes for fun content for the podcast every month. So we love you and hate you all at the same time. Another topic of discussion, which came up following our last podcast, was enjoying games without knowing the source material. Oh, shit. All right, Kevin, hold on. I heard my cue. There it is. I'm going to let's take everybody back to last month when I dared say disapproving words towards that wonderful game that's known as Halloween. So there's a lot to talk about here. And I just want to read this guy who got triggered. You can go and see the comment. I won't read his name because he doesn't even use his real name because that's, I don't know, that's how he rolls. God bless him. I'm going to read this. Oh, no, not me. I wasn't just, and I'm trying to use the way he types, I wasn't just seen on stream playing Halloween and visibly enjoying it and having positive things to say. LOL, GTFOH, get the fuck out of here? Yep, that's what that is. There should be another O technically.
    27:06
    LOL, get the fuck out of here. Not sure how you can honestly review a pin of a movie you've never seen.
    27:13
    Oh, he's got all caps. A movie you've never seen. Okay, I'm going to stop right there. So the charge against me is that this guy is incredulous. Like, how could Nick possibly review a pinball machine of a movie he's never seen? Well, that's an excellent question, sir. How could I? I've been wrong all this time. How can I possibly say Johnny Mnemonic is a good game without watching that movie? I don't know. I'm going to flip this around. how could you enjoy a movie without playing a pinball game don't you those things are obviously intertwined how could you possibly if you want like you say you like a movie but you never played the pinball machine version of it how could you fucking enjoy it how would you know if it's good or not we're all just left i'm gonna just let that linger we're gonna need a good month everybody can think and reflect on this profound statement from this gentlemen we're gonna have him on to start reviewing because i'm gonna ensure that he's seen the movie first so he can talk about it all right let's continue on some light research in the form of simply watching the movie might go a long way thank you sir okay also nick the whole quote i only appeared to light the game on stream because i had too many beers is such transparent bullshit don't be such a stern shill kevin your insights are pretty fair there you go kevin's a good guy There you go. Kevin loves it. Kevin loves this shit. I think my insight was after two games, that was enough Halloween. I think that was my impression of Halloween.
    28:55
    Oh, dear God. Oh, this is just unreal. So we're going to spend some time on it because, again, there's no content to talk about. And I know that people enjoy this shit, so why not? I talk about it anyways because I get rattled up when I see this. um let me break things down for you sir because i think this is a like a teachable moment here i think that we can learn something first of all i don't think i was praising halloween on the stream i was basically saying this is not a complete piece of shit like everybody said it was that's essentially my vibe i'm also playing it for the first time at a collector's house trying to not be a total asshole about this guy's new game now he's he's become a good friend of ours and he's Patrick's awesome and Patrick can take it he's a big boy I can tell him his game is complete shit but also I want to try to be open and and and appreciate it okay so if you think I'm being positive towards it I would disagree with that and also the people in the spooky thread basically said no no no Nick was not really saying good things about it just said it wasn't a complete piece of shit um and then afterwards by the time we did this the podcast and talked about it, some time had passed and I got to think about the game. Second of all, as Kevin and I painstakingly say all the time when we give impressions, it's not a review, okay? Clearly it's not a review in your book because I haven't seen the movie, so I have no basis if it's a good game or not. We can just move on from there.
    30:24
    I want to also commend people on the spooky threads because most people, you know, I slam the game. Most people are kind of like, yeah, Nick's whatever. We're Nick's kind of right. And we still like the game. I think the way you approach that is saying, OK, you can say, Nick, here's where you're wrong about the game. Like you said this about this rule. I don't think you understand how that works. You know, point out what I'm missing, not on my character. Right. Like, don't attack me personally. Tell me where I'm wrong. You didn't tell me where I'm wrong other than I didn't see the movie. All right. Which is just no one. That's nonsense. sense. Okay. It's great that you like the theme and there's definitely a market out there for spooky for people who are just happy to have a pinball machine with their theme. They see some scenes from a movie, the arts there. That's dude, that's perfectly fine. I don't want to stop anybody's enjoyment of that. Okay. Like that's cool. Just, just own up to that. No big deal. I don't want to ruin your time, but the game is garbage in terms of basically shots, layout, rules.
    31:31
    The audio and visual production is garbage. And here's the funny thing. I should try to get Patrick on the show today to review it. I'm going to maybe pull up his text when I get a moment, and I'm going to have some snippets from him and his quotes he said I can share. But I was over there a couple weeks later. All right. This game coming has been out since when?
    31:53
    Jeez, it's got to be going on a year now, right? Let's do a year. Yeah, because it was around Halloween time last year, right, when they announced it? Yeah. I was at Patrick's a few weeks ago, and he's like, what game do you want to play? I was like, let's try Halloween again. You know, maybe I missed something, right? So we go and we play a game. Patrick's the first player, I'm the second player. When I get up, the game starts me on ball one as the second player in the middle of the mode that Patrick was on. in the middle of the fucking mode he was on what game's been out eight months and that's that's the software where it's at dude that's insane that is insane day one the game was released by that that's pretty bad but the fact that that still exists the fact that we were playing um the game had tilted out when we were on the stream and you're still playing it's you know it's not lost on me that the guy who's coding is the 20 year old referred to as bug because that game is buggy shit i'm not slamming the dude like it's his he can code a pinball machine i can't but it's not on the level of a stern or jersey jacking not even not even close yeah they've also got they're making they have this tiny team of inexperienced people making two pinball machines at the same time trying to code and and design rules around two machines at the same time um i just looked it up and um they announced it on july almost exactly a year ago july 5th 2021 was when they announce this game so yeah they've had a year to polish this up and it's it's got a ways to go yes dude it's it's it's complete garbage and let me let me say this last year around this time kevin and i played um um led zeppelin pro on location and then i got on i talked about how i was disappointed and i talked about what i didn't like about it and then some people replied to me and they're like hey nick i i think this is a good game and here's why they actually gave me examples and things to focus on and look at. And guess what? I end up owning that game and it's one of my favorite games of all time, right? That's how you can respond to something. Take on my criticism and show me where I'm wrong. Tell me that there's not a lot of bugs in the game. You can't, okay? Tell me that the rules aren't basic or the audio's bad and so on and so forth. Or just say, listen, Nick, I grant you all that. I'm just happy that there's a Halloween pin. It's my favorite movie so I'm not super nerdy about pinball like you are dude I'm just happy to have at my home and I'd say that's awesome 100 100 respect I'm glad that spooky exists to make these titles that maybe Stern or Jersey Jack doesn't playing that's great but I stand 100 by the other things I said and to my knowledge that is the only game during the last year or so that has gone down in value. People are jumping this thing like it is fucking toxic and it needs to be buried 10 miles under the earth. They don't want it. It's bad. There's currently 29 of them for sale on Pinside. A lot of them, they're selling their pre-order spots for way under what they bought it for. I think they were like $2,000 pre-order spots going for like $900. and things like that. It's crazy.
    35:04
    Yeah, like, no other game, to my knowledge, is tanking like that. Everything's going up. So I don't have this weird minority opinion on the game, where I'm coming out of left field and people are scratching their heads. I'm right in the wheelhouse of everybody else. And also, the Stern shill? Hello, have you been around? I shit on them all the time. But here's the thing. I'm not a Stern hater and I'm not a Stern fanboy. When they do something great, I praise the hell out of them. And when they don't do something that's not great, I slam them. Not a show. I think you need to go and look at the definition. Am I a show for JJP? Well, they're a sponsor, so we don't review their games. Because, yeah, I'm shilling a little bit for them, but I also don't come on and review a game and give it a 10 because they're a sponsor. So there's a conflict of interest. So, anyways, I strive to be super straightforward and honest. and you're always welcome to debate me on my points because I get things wrong, just like I did with Led Zeppelin. And I respect the hell out of people that actually engage me on my points because you can actually change my mind. And then, yeah, there you go. So let's see what Patrick says.
    36:16
    Let's see. While you're looking that up, let me just make the point about subjectivity too. So it's like, we have an opinion on things. It's like, these are works of art. people have different favorite movies, different favorite bands, different favorite flavors of ice cream. This is not an objective thing. There are objective things that we talk about, like there's bugs in the code or the video is grainy and things like that. But then there's like, do you just like it or not? And you can't define that. Like he can't convince you you like this thing if you don't like it, right? There might be things you're missing that might turn you around. But just people inherently like different things. And that's okay. It's okay. Yeah, I was calling out like, so here's a case in point, right? This is like something you can, it's objective, right? Like I was saying, there's no tilt sound, right? I had no idea when I was tilting. People in the forums like, yeah, there is one. And Patrick confirmed that there is one. It's just, it's so poorly executed that I had no idea or wasn't loud enough. You didn't know either, right, Kev? You were playing the game. You didn't know. Nobody knew. Okay, so that's a problem. So, yes, there is one. It's just so poorly done like the rest of the game that it's not obvious and you don't know.
    37:34
    Okay, now we've gotten somewhere. You know, that's where I'm at. So Patrick just quickly said, I originally seriously considered eating the 2K deposit, but then I thought, surely the code will improve and surely I'll lose less than 2K if I decide to sell. Whoops. There you go. yeah so Patrick the friend of ours and host of that bro show that we did he's selling his because he wants it out of his house he dumped it he dumped that thing it's gone so there's your Halloween update so yes it's possible to enjoy Chris the Pinter wants to hear me talk Zep yeah I'm happy to talk Zep thanks Chris for bringing that up coming up on two years of owning it and I'm still playing the hell out of it it's probably the one game that I, if you look at the amount of time that I've put into playing it versus the length of ownership, it's probably number one based on that alone. There you go. Thanks for bringing that up, Chris.
    38:33
    Nick likes Led Zeppelin and I don't. And it's okay. You know what I mean? We're still talking. Yeah, it's crazy. It's so weird. Yeah. I don't know how we manage, Kev. I don't know. Imagine that.
    38:47
    All right. So that's it. So bottom line, you can play a game without knowing the source material. How would you – well, I guess that plays into the unlicensed themes. Like how would you ever possibly enjoy an unlicensed pinball machine? I fucking hate them all because there's no movie to attach it to. How do I know if I like it or not? I have no idea what's going on. Oh, my God. No idea. I just – I talked to Robin from Pinside. I was like, can you just have a rating that says it doesn't have a movie? I cannot possibly rate this game.
    39:17
    work on that sorry sorry we need a unlicensed top 100 because nobody could possibly rate those accurately all right so that's a that's our our breakdown of enjoying games without uh knowing the source material and there you go here's here's a stern chill nick lane on twitter let's go let's go over to there this is a good this is a good one so nick on twitter posts my my new inbox mando from at Stern Pinball Inc. lasted almost two weeks before breaking. Comma. The comma is important. A new personal best. And then Stern Pinball Inc. liked it.
    39:54
    I don't know who's managing your socials, Stern, but you need to lay off the liking at all of your mentions. It's a tough day. They were in, like, the liking groove. They had, like, boom, boom. They're, like, liking it. It's like that meme of the person clicking on the computer doing, like, the thumbs up. Like that. Yep. they're like job well done time for lunch look at all this engagement we're getting and then later they unliked it but because the internet is forever we have a screenshot of it so i i kid i kid stern the the the backstory joke behind that is we were talking in a chat um you patrick and matt and um so the the the history behind here if you're new to the podcast is every single new inbox game that i've bought from stern for more than 10 years has had issues like I just never had a game where I just never had an issue and everything was working fine right so I almost made it to almost made it to two weeks with Mandalorian I wasn't even celebrating Kevin you know I wasn't even like oh my game's working everything's good like I did jinx myself because when I got I looked at that upper mini play field and I said man I'd hate to have to work on that so maybe I guess that's enough for the universe to like take a little no and then fuck me two weeks later um so we were talking in chat and um patrick's joke and he's like he's like oh stern probably sees that nick lane's got a pinball machine on order and messes around with it and sends it out you know so then like that happened that same day and stern liking it i was like theory confirmed patrick here you go so um what was the issue and have you resolved it yeah so the issue was um a wire got unsoldered from one of the coils which caused both flippers to stop working on the upper play field.
    41:34
    And, yeah, so shout out to Flippin' Out Pinball, so both Zach and Greg, who's joined it. We got the whole straight down the middle team behind me. You know, like, this is, dude, this is great. What a time to be alive in pinball. So I got them. They got my back. Matt came over last night. Dude, he's awesome. It was a pain in the ass. We got it out. Took forever. Fixed it up. now it's working um pinside also shout out to those guys people were helping me there and it doesn't seem like too many people had this issue but like it just it just sucks like i just cannot catch a break um it's working now and and stern i give you guys a hard time rightfully so your attention to detail which is shown by that tweet is is at the heart of every issue but um they did follow up because i i did give them a hard time because i screenshot it and then also had a lol like are you liking you know this like and they're like i'm sorry um you know they dm me and like how can they help so um but you also called them out on the playfield that they promised you in may of 2021 that you still don't correct we'll get that saga um they promised me a playfield uh back in may 2021 and i'm still waiting for it so you know here's the here's the sad thing with Stern, like, you have to, like, have, like, a meltdown and start really getting pissed off to get anywhere. That's the sad, and I,
    43:00
    despite my demeanor on this podcast, that's not how I like to be, like, at all. I try to be patient, and, you know, they will push you. But anyways, that's that story. That's a little fun, isn't it? We love you, Stern. Never change. What else we got?
    43:17
    Let's talk game room updates. Why don't you This is a bathroom break while you do your game room updates. This is perfect timing. I love it. Thank you. Bathroom break with game room updates. All right. So let's start. Well, let's go over here. And you can see literally like an hour before the podcast, I got a delivery of my Weird Al's Museum of Natural Hilarity play field module, topper, artwork. I got the LE version. So I also ordered a few extras, including the USB button box. which lets you plug in USB headphones, and I'm going to use it for my USB Wi-Fi dongle on my P3. And I also got the apron art for Sorcerer's Apprentice. So I figured while we're shipping stuff, let's get all that in on one order and combine the shipping cost on all that. So super excited to have my Weird Al. So, I mean, it's only been, I mean, I got Toy Story, what, two weeks ago so it's been two weeks since i got a new pinball machine so it's it's about time i got another new one so i can if you're watching live i can show you toy story it's it's right over there um but yeah so that was the the other big update was that i got toy story uh thankfully uh gratefully one of the one of the first to to ship out it's a it's an le uh it's in great shape i've had to do a couple little tweaks to it um let's see the diverter on the left ramp if you watching my left my last stream and uh it was like hitting the there's a plastic housing over the diverter and i was hitting that so i just had to unscrew stuff and and shift the the cover over a little bit and that that's all that um not much else it's it's been it's been doing it's been doing great i've been playing the hell out of that game it had been a it had been a while since i play since i got a new game um the last like new inbox pinball machine i got was guns and roses which was um october of 2020 so but i did there was one more that i snuck in there right before i got um before i got toy story so something had to leave so i a had money and b had room for for toy story so i sold hobbit so rip hobbit it had come down to hobbit and uh and willie wonka and uh my son and i have been playing and i left it up to him between the two i was like which one should we keep and uh he said keep wonka so we're keeping wonka for now that'll probably be the next one to go because now i have i have four pat lawler games in my collection now and it feels like too many you're still wonking the donk dude still wonking the donk that's right did you have a lineup of just blue games they all look the same that's the weird thing about like toy story like it looks the same as like dialed in and wonka like if you like glance quickly you're like what game is this like uh there's three different games here what game is it like you're tricking me this one game pat lawler has a long history of blue games if you go back to like earthshaker and whirlwind and it's just he likes blue and like every other jjp that comes out is blue he's living in a blue house of a blue windor unless unless you buy the le and then you get red i guess or the the c the le's are all blue um so yeah oh i had uh so i when i sold the hobbit um i had it up for sale and then somebody offered me uh x-men le plus cash because they saw that x-men was on my wish list i was like oh that's interesting i've never owned a an x-man and i've always wanted to play it so far so why don't we do that um and then i didn't know at that time exactly when uh toy story was going to be launched like i knew it was soon that's why i was making the move um and like two weeks later they announced they announced toy story so uh i had x-men for about two weeks uh it was super fun i played it on stream i would have liked to keep it but money you know money these pinball machines aren't cheap um so i sold i sold x-men uh that moved on to a new home and and now we got toy story so that was a quick turnaround for for a couple machines but that was super fun uh weird al i in my notes i said weird al was on the way because it had shipped earlier this week but it's right there so uh we're gonna be installing that i have to as part of that install the upper left flipper so a little bit of a project but i got all the magnetic art that's got to go on there. This is going to be the first time I'm doing a full conversion of my P3. It's been in heist mode ever since I got it. Looking forward to transforming it into an entire new machine for the first time.
    48:05
    Besides that, I got some new books. We had Father's Day. I got a couple good ones that you might be interested in. And then, so this is, you know, let me, let me put it on, put it on me so you can see.
    48:16
    Pinball, A Graphic History of the Silver Ball by John Chad. So he had sent us a review copy of this, but it was a, it was a PDF and it was annoying to read. So, and it was really good what I had read of it on the, on the digital version. So I was like, oh, we'll put that on the Amazon wishlist. And, and there we go. I got that for Father's Day. I also got a book on Atari coin op games called Atari design impressions on coin operated video game machines. This is very academic. This is like academic research kind of stuff. So if you want to get real nerdy about Atari art and, and cabinet design and things like that, the opening chapter is all about Tempest, which is one of my favorite games. So that, that is right up my alley. So two good reading options so far, if you're looking for a little reading material. The other thing I did was, you can see discs of Tron behind me right there. I got side art. I got, like, basically mirror blades for it because that's what the original cabinet had when I got it. It had really beat-up ones, so I got ones that are mirror-polished stainless steel. They're really baller-looking. They look really good. I'm really happy with how that came out. And I also moved Tron over to the other side so I could have two of my Trons side-by-side over there. So I swapped that with the P3. So P3 is over here to my left. It's got to be on the end so it's easy to get in and out for the play field modules. And then we just popped Tron over there. So that's what I've been doing. I've also been playing some video games, like the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game came out. The beat-em-up. That was super fun. Oh, dude, why aren't we playing together? Dude, it's on Game Pass. Let's play. Let's fucking play. I got it on PC. We should be able to. Yeah. It's got cross-platform. All right And you can do up to six players so we can get a whole crew going Let go Yeah beat it a few times already but I down anytime you want I give it another run I want to play Final Vendetta too that's another beat em up that came out but they're actually making it for the Neo Geo the arcade cabinet so I'm waiting I'm going to play it on there when that comes out I got Streets of Rage 4 too and I've not played through that so that game is super fun too I'm down to play that awesome all right so i had a lot of game room updates but nick has even more game room updates this month this might be the biggest game room update of my entire podcasting career so where to begin you know what where we're gonna begin kevin bring up the fucking partner things oh with that right in the middle yeah right there uh where are you guys so you're gonna skip through this huh sneak attack all right all right all right all right we want to start off by thinking our premier partner, Pinstadium. Pinstadium lighting kits. They are app-controlled, iOS, Android.
    51:06
    Use pinball code BUFFALO, save 10%. Especially, listen, if you've got a dark game, like, you know, one of the best examples is Deadpool. I see everybody and their brother and mother are buying that game. So that game is bagging for Pinstadium. Highly recommend. That's Pinstadium, our premier level partner. I also want to give a shout-out to our other partners very quickly, Pinwoofer. get a pinwoofer kit, make her game sound good. I'll tell you, my rush sounds cod-awful. Oh my god. It sounds terrible stock. I cannot wait for my pinwoofer kit to get there and save the day because it's hurting me. I'm going to have to go to the doctor and they're going to have to do the test where you're like, can you hear this beep and hear that beep and all that stuff just to make sure that there's something not wrong with me. It sounds that bad. Alright, flipping out pinball, flipping out pinball. Once you go, Zach, you never ever go back. I can promise you I'll never go back. Alright, Zach, And now Greg, who's their tag team in this pinball industry, they're unstoppable. Nothing but good things to say. I swear to God, it's not until you have a, like I'm a huge on customer service. It's not until you have an issue. Do you know what the person you're working with in any industry is worth working with them? It's how they take care of you when there's an issue. And they are first class, 100% about pinball. Titan Pinball, OG sponsor. I just got the static cling button protectors. Oh, yeah. I put them on my toy story. On my games. Oh, my God. This guy is brilliant. He saved the day. I used to use the stupid coin taker things that ruined the game. It sent me down this disastrous path of powder coating. It just ruined my life, basically. This $5 product would have just changed the course of my life and made me a happier man. Thank you, Titan. Thank you. He's also got silicone rings and stuff. But, like, thank you for that product. Put it on your game. It's $5. It's a no-brainer. It won't ruin the artwork.
    53:04
    Do it. Pinball.edu. Go to pinballraffle.org. Support a charity. Help kids with autism. Maybe you can win a pinball machine. Who knows? It's possible. Pinside.com, my favorite place to go and talk pinball and have people publicly shit on me. There's nothing better than that. One of my favorite stories, and this is what happens when you skip this shit. I sent it to Kevin the other day. I asked a question. Where is the post located? Where are they putting the post on Rush? Where are they putting it? Because here's the deal. If you remember, we were talking about this before.
    53:41
    The pros were shipping it in the middle position, all right? When they started making the LEs, they were making it in the lowest position, the easiest position possible. Now, that's interesting to me because, first of all, I think the premium LE is a little bit easier. We're going to get some safe returns.
    53:56
    Why are they doing that? I don't know. I never got a good answer. And so I asked, you know, now, I was wondering if maybe now they're moved the pro to the same position as Premier and L.E. And it sounds like they haven't. So I asked the question, this one asshole, because he's done this to me before. He's attacked me before. I don't know why. He answered the question. He's like, I've seen it. He's like, well, it's this. but I've seen it, you know, depends on who's on the line. They put it all over for all these games. No, they don't. This is not a choose-your-own-adventure. There's not people on the line like, you know, Frank, just put it where you want. Everything else has like a diagram, but you know that post? What are you feeling today?
    54:40
    Surprise me. That's not how it works, dude. Should I put this ramp on the game? Ah, you know. You want to be an asshole to me? You have no idea who you're messing with. um so after he gets that poor answer he goes why is this even a question what do you mean why is it a question dude dude come on why is it because there's consistency like what stern is first of all stern just announced their global leaderboard um where you can compare your scores against other people now like look look i get it people can cheat they They can move the posts and stuff. But I like my thing now is I like my games at stock so I can see how my scores compare and how I'm doing on a machine. I want to play the machine the way the designer intended, period. Because we'll review Rush at some point, okay?
    55:33
    And if I start moving posts around, then I'm not giving an accurate review, right? I'm playing a different game. So I want to know that. That's all. Is that suitable? I don't know. But anyways, go to Pinside.com. It's odd. See how I brought that back? We were still doing ads. We're not done. All right. We got Comic Pinball. Comic Pinball for your LED lighting needs. Another OG. And then finally, Jersey Jack Pinball. They are the most beautiful pinball machines on the planet. Grab their newest toy story for Kevin Manning loves it. What else do you need to know? All right. Let's get back to game room updates. Yeah. It's your turn. That's probably one of the best ad reads ever. That was good. And I snuck that story right in there. That's like a bonus edition for the people who sit and follow, especially the live people. you're welcome all right also follow me on follow me on on pin side go ahead give me a follow matt was telling me that he likes if he follows me he likes reading my posts so there you go really catch the hot takes mostly in the ballerama thread that's where all the good ones happen i i get the best ones here um all right so yeah this was a a busy month man i got two pinball machines so mandalorian premium came two weeks ago and shout out to dave sussa who's a goddamn hero. He helped me move both games, both that and rush, which came yesterday into my basement. He also helped me, um, do some like, uh, put some cliffies on Mando and stuff. So David, Dave is a hero. He's a, he's a good guy. So friend of the show. And, uh, yeah, so I got two games, both of course from flipping out because I'm not fucking crazy. All right. I'm not, I'm not that masochistic. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I'm really, I'm really loving Mando. I sold Deadpool to get Mando, and I do not miss Deadpool. I know Deadpool is like the belle of the ball right now, right? Like, everybody's getting, like, T-Pose, everybody's getting Deadpool, and it's a fine game, but I think Mando's far more interesting for my taste. I mean, that's just my subjective opinion, so don't before you go keyboard commando on me. I could probably back it up during the review. I'll get into that more. I won't spoil that, but I'm enjoying it. I like it.
    57:37
    I think that the premium's the way to go if you can swing it, for sure. I was almost going to get a pro, Kevin. The only reason I got the premium was that I have a pro at work. I have a pro on location. And then when I sold Deadpool, I was like, well, just X amount more, I can get the premium. Why not? Why not get the premium when I can? I wasn't convinced because I didn't spend much time on it. That wouldn't make a difference. And I'm definitely happy I got the premium. It's definitely the better game.
    58:07
    Okay, so I got that. And then Rush came yesterday. oh wait we got a good question have you seen mando tv series dude you might that's the only way you can know if you really like the game yeah yeah well this is this is really playing to that guy's theory i fucking love mandalorian i do not like star wars i i almost hate star wars and i love mandalorian i think mandalorian is like one of the best tv shows ever um it is really good job john favreau it's amazing what happens if you get people who can actually write stories you can just sell Muppets in your series and it's good apparently love me some Baby Yoda Rogu alright so we got derailed so Rush came in and as I was talking about last time you know like I was like dreading the amount of like time that needs to be invested just to get that game where it should be so Matt Taylor shout out to Matt was an awesome guy very very good tech so if anybody's in the Buffalo area needs a tech 100% just hire Matt, make your life easier. So he came over and, um, first we had to do the scoop thing. So Stern, as you might know about this game, had, they, they failed to figure out how to design a scoop that doesn't break and crack the play field. I don't know how this is the thing. I don't know how this happens, but it did. So then they've started putting these sandwich nubs on it, which again, this is an over, I guess, I guess it's over-engineered, but poor solution. and it also changes the geometry of the game from where, you know, Borg intended it. So I feel like that's not the real version of the game again, trying to play that version. So Ninja Pinball, Ninja Mods, Ninja Camp, whatever they're called, God bless them, had came up with a solution that actually works. So we had to take those Scoop Protectors off from Stern, and this was a pain in the ass. uh it took a considerable amount of time and uh you know matt helped me with that so that's awesome now i got now i got that done there's some other mods to like prevent chipping and like the the buck and the vuk also has rejects i got to put that mod in there like this game kevin is just like i also had a ball that's getting stuck on the time machine like it's just kind of like uh i'm not done with it like i'm not done with it but matt was over between doing those and i Rush is still not dialed in. I could probably do the rest myself. He was over and started working from 8 o'clock at night and didn't leave until 12.30 a.m. My lord. Between Rush and Mando. Four and a half hours on brand new games.
    60:47
    Did you do the mod for the Switch on the Inner Orbit? Not even. I've got to order that. I've got to investigate that more and order it. I'm having a problem where it seems to not wrap around cleanly. So maybe it's hitting the Switch. I don't know. The getting stuck on the time machine is annoying. Like, it's just the new inbox experience is just, it's annoying. It just is. So as long as you know that going, it's okay. I think, you know, Zach was like, I messaged him. I was like, yeah, you know, I got those fixed. And he's like, thanks for your patience. I was like, dude, it's easy. It's easier for me to be patient with this when I know, like, he's got my back and we're going to get this resolved. Right? Like, that makes it easier to stomach. But it's still just like, I was not excited yesterday. Yesterday, I knew I was getting rushed. I was not excited at all. Not even in the least. It's just such a headache. When that game finally gets to where it needs to be, get the sound system in, get it dialed in, and I'm actually enjoying it, then I'll get excited and have fun.
    61:44
    Maybe somebody in chat knows this. So Stern did the global leaderboards. They just released that. And when I go to it, there's a verified location leaderboard, which I assume is public locations, and then there's the other worldwide leaderboard. um i'm not seeing my i put up a score today it's not a great one but i should be on the leaderboard the the one that's not verified but i don't see it showing so if anybody knows what i'm doing wrong or if i'm wrong about the whole way it works let me know um what what else um what else can i say gavin did uh somebody in chat wants to know what was wrong with mando besides i guess we talked about the upper flipper or the upper playfield coil was there anything else he had to do that Yeah, 100%. If you get a Mando, whether it's premium or pro, definitely get the Cliffy ramp protectors for the left ramp. Everyone will tell you that within the first game that ramp is going to break. Let me just say how when I say Stern doesn't care, it's true. I mean, I can prove this by their actions. This game has been out more than a year.
    62:48
    Everyone knows if you go into Pinside Thread that that left ramp will crack, and that's annoying. and Stern will send you another ramp if it cracks, which is, you know, nobody wants to swap this out.
    62:58
    Stern has protectors on there, but apparently they're not long enough, so Cliffy made ones that are longer, and that will prevent the cracking. Why doesn't Stern just change their thing? Like, I understand that your first iteration, there's some issues, like, you learn it. It also shows itself really early on, so I don't know how you didn't figure this out in testing, but whatever. But they still don't change anything, right, Kev? Like, this is the problem. They don't give a shit. they they they really don't it's a dollar and cents thing they'll take care of you and send you another ramp which is nice but so that's annoying so like that had to be done and you had to swap that on i'm trying to think i don't think there's any anything else i did on that game to get it um to get it playing um up until the flippers died it's it was good what about the uh diverter at the top of that left ramp is is have you had a problem with yours because i know Oh, on Mando? Yeah.
    63:48
    I had not had, like, of it just breaking. Yeah. So far, so good. You probably just jinxed it. But, like, after working on it last night, I was getting some rejects where it would hit that and come down the ramp again. And that might have been something that Matt and I did when we were putting it back together. So it remains to be seen. But, no, I mean, like, the game had been playing pretty good. The left orbit sometimes doesn't go all the way up, which you remember on the Pro, like, it was kind of, like, tight there or it's hitting a plastic or something. It's like a minor annoyance, but one that I've seen before. But again, other than that, I think Mandel's an awesome game. It's honestly Dwight's best rules. I think he knocked it out of the park. I think this is like maybe Dwight tries things on other games, and then he crushed it. I love the work he did on this game. Absolutely love it. I can't say enough good things about the theme integration on it and the choreography and everything. So Dwight criticized your other games. They just didn't click for me. But somebody let this man know that I couldn't be happier with his rules. I can't wait to have you over, and we'll go through it. Yeah, because I told Nick, I was like, I like everything about that game except the rules. So maybe I'm missing something because I like the theme. I like the art. I think the play field is neat and interesting. The sound and theme integration is really good. um but yeah so the the the big thing when i played it was it seemed like the encounters were super grindy and i think they changed how some of that works right um well yeah so one thing that they changed it used to well it used to be like you can just spam the um middle shot the um razor crest shot and just do multi balls and stuff now like you're locked out of unless you i think you do a mode or something else so you've got to kind of you got to play through the game kind of evenly okay um you were asking about what was your question about the encounters the encounters it just seemed like when that was like the one like roadblock to getting to the wizard mode that the one time i got real close and you needed to shoot that um center or the the left ramp a bazillion times get it up top try to hit the shots and then it's like the only thing left to do in the game and you're putting it back up on the mini play field and trying to hit the shots and it was like just like a grind fest i don't know if they changed that at all yeah i think you always get to a point of the game where it gets a little more grindy. Never grindy like Transformers or something. Not to the point... It almost touched on the point where it could be frustrating, but it never hits it or crosses it to where it affects my appreciation for the game. I think the upper play field is really fun. And again, we can talk about this a little bit, because why not? We'll do a review when you've had some time to play it. We actually did review it. I went back and looked.
    66:33
    We'll re-review it, I think, in a new light. I think it deserves it. But, yeah, it's – I think one problem with the Pro is that when you shoot up to the encounters, it doesn't always feed to the upper flipper, which is annoying. So then you've got to do it again. This one, you always get the ball and flipper because there's two flippers up there. You can trap it, and at least you get a whack at the targets. Right.
    67:00
    The way to counter that if you're frustrated or you're getting stuck up there, and this is, I think, why the rules are really good. is you can buy things through the foundry and you can buy like um light encounter if you're just you know sometimes like when you get farther into it and you're encounter three you might need like four shots just to qualify that so you can buy a thing that will make that qualified okay um or you can have a complete encounter level so if like you know sometimes during encounter you have to go up there a number of times because i keep on missing like a shot and i'm starting to feel a lot where are the flippers because like that thing gets really vertical which is really cool this thing rotates like the the mini play field it gets it gets like really am i showing it right it gets kind of really vertical and then it will get more flat at certain times um so you can just if you're getting stuck you just buy a thing at the foundry and complete it that will help you progress through it faster and like you could do things for getting missions lit going through the razor crest multiball faster so you can use that like i can buy things featured to progress in the game and i think a lot of things in the foundry are actually like makes you think like what should i get it's not like oh always do this you know you always buy this or all and like it's different and also would be different in competition so it's it's really good really really good in my opinion that reminds me of pirates when you play pirates and people are like what what what uh what character is the best well there's not a character you have to pick the one you want to apply a particular strategy to right yeah and that's why like you know deadpool is pretty linear, like, in that sense. And this is a linear game, too. You know, like, Deadpool is like, oh, I want to fight this character. You can choose that, but it always kind of plays out the same. Things like the Foundry, though, there's just more kind of decision-making. There's more there. The multiballs are way more interesting to me. Like, I love on the multiballs how you can, you're also, there's things to do on the upper playfield during the multiball. Like, that's exciting. Like, trying to, like, okay, can I trap it up there? and I got a ball down there and like, it's just, it's just fun. And like the, the, um, again, like good multi-ball rules. It's not like, okay, you're in a multi-ball shots are lit. And then you hit all shots and you hit a super jackpot. Like one of the, um, multi-balls in Mandalorian is, um, you hit shots and you're building up a super jackpot, but the super jackpots only lit when you're down to one ball. Like that's, that's, that's cool. Right. Because then it becomes a moment. You're like, oh shit, it's, it's flashing. The game's going crazy. am I going to collect it? That's cool. That is. So there's just, again, there's, there's more, there's more there for someone like me. Yeah. It reminds me of some of the stuff I've been enjoying in toy story. Pat Lawler is always great about having those cross play field shots when you're in multi-ball you're so you're like, you get to a certain point in a multi-ball and it's like, Oh, I need to hit this cross cross play field shot with the upper flipper. So I got to trap them up down low and try to hit rip that spinner. Or there's one, the road trip multiball where you're trying to like pop it back into that far left shot, hit the drop target, and then put it back in there for the mega jackpot. So I can actually complete the mode and not just, not just start it. So yeah, it, I love those, like this little, like the stuff that makes it more interesting and it's not just a bunch of lid shots. Right. Yeah. And I think, you know, Tio Penn had, Joe Chair says, Mando rules seem very simple. I don't think that's, I don't think that they're simple. I think that they're straightforward. like i think you kind of always know what to do for the most part the only weird thing is that the um the kind of like at the beginning like nothing's kind of lit like in terms it's not obvious if you don't know what's going on how to start a mode that is weird i think you think they would have done something by now it's a really weird design decision which i don't understand but other than that the game is like very straightforward which is like playing rush i have no idea what's going on it's like rush seems like everything's always kind of lit i don't it's not intuitive like i'm looking forward to that complexity and digesting it but again like i wouldn't say mandel rules are simple there's a there's a lot there but it's it's pretty straightforward that somebody can step up be like okay now i need to hit this shot and that's what's going on yeah i think i think that's a plus in design when you're you know you're presenting the basics of the game that should be pretty straightforward what you need to do and then leave it to the advanced player or the homeowner who's had it for a while they kind of uncover the other layers as you as you dig into a game that that's good game design in my opinion yeah and then the foundry is where you can kind of get creative on how you want to approach it and like the multipliers are like how you want to push your luck on certain shots and a lot of the modes are like you can exit out of this mode or you can keep on hitting this shot and build up more value in the mode again like that's a cool feature you know deadpool doesn't have that it's just like i hit up up up and then i'm done and deadpool does have like if i go into a mode and i have a guy i get 2x scoring and stuff so it's a little bit of that but um yeah it's kind of it's it's in many ways linear and then other ways like open-ended that as you're going on an adventure giving you giving the players decision making and options and push your luck a little bit yeah i was playing it at james's house and he was he was showing me how the multipliers work i was like oh that's cool i didn't realize that with that the target on the right yeah i can build that up and bring that into your multi balls and stuff like that so that's cool too yeah and it's straightforward it's not anything too crazy right awesome um so was that it that's all the it's all the gamer updates you got two new pinball machines i'm probably forgetting some oh oh the powder coating oh yeah oh dude i got it dude where is it okay i am i am so fucking pissed off dude uh i'm uh so let me tee this up so i thought that rush premium would look awesome with white powder coating so i went with cosmic white and i made the mistake of having somebody local do it this person this is a shop right it's not a person but this the shop um did my led zeppelin i thought it came out pretty good and now i'm now i'm in doubt of like that but um kevin's got on the screen i just posted on pin side this morning so you can go and see the shit show and those are just some of the pictures I could have posted more. It looks like I took these parts and spray painted them out back, like, in two seconds. Look at that. That line is terrible. Look at that. God. Dude, $333 for this garbage.
    73:19
    I'm not naming the place that did this. There's not a lot of powder coatings in Buffalo. I'm going to try to work it out with them. Like, what?
    73:28
    You know, what is it called? Why am I forgetting this? Pinball Refinery. He does powder coating. He didn't do this. God knows. But I reached out to him, and he was commenting on it. He's like, look, they didn't do a good job stripping it off. You can see that you need to strip that stuff off. And I'm looking at the invoice, and, like, he charged me for stripping. So they were supposed to do that process. You can just tell that they just didn't give a shit, and they returned it to me. So I'm going to try to fix that. But that's, it's really, it's actually really bothering me right now because I just, I feel like I got taken. Yeah, that's annoying. Hopefully it works out for you. But I guess we're, yeah, he was saying, I was reading through the thread and Pimaw Refinery was saying that white over black is particularly hard. And, you know, he strips his stuff down to bare metal before he powder coats any white because he understands it's so hard. So I guess there's, you know, anybody who specializes in something is going to know the ins and outs a little bit better than somebody who's just a general practitioner in this way. So this guy knows pinball.
    74:36
    Pinball Refinery knows what it takes to get these parts looking good. I mean, this is a legit shop. Like, they should know this. I feel like they were just, like, skimping and, like, there you go. Like, hope you're happy with it. I know. Who looks at that and is like, oh, that's good. Let's go. Yeah. Well, exactly. Right. Kevin, like, it's just obviously bad. It's not like nitpicking. It's just obviously bad. And, and where Himalaya Refinery says, like, when you just half-ass it and you don't do the proper stripping on it of taking off the existing powder coat, then what ends up happening is that in the long run that going to chip So can wait for that to happen on on my Led Zeppelin But yeah lesson learned I mean people talk highly of Robert Stone and Pinball Refinery on Pinside You know, if I do this again, it will be through them. Probably Pinball Refinery. He's been very helpful and I'll be happy to report back. But, yeah, it's just lesson learned, man. If you're going to do the powder coating, you might as well go to the trusted sources on Pinside.
    75:37
    You know, I didn't want to ship things because there's additional costs, like, in that. And I, like, thought, why can't this person handle it? They have good reviews on Google and stuff. They're, like, a legit place. This is, I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out.
    75:54
    I'm glad you like nitpicking. Nitpicking. That's good. All right, a couple local updates. So we wrapped up our team league. So we did our team league a little differently this time around. Thank you, Matt, for heading up, leading the charge, and bringing that back. He's like, I love team league. Let's do it again. And we're like, all right, let's do it. And we ran it over the course of a month. Every Wednesday, we used to go every other Wednesday.
    76:21
    We figured this would be better because we were getting into the summer, and folks in Buffalo like to make the most of summer while we have it. And my team was the winner. That's why I brought this up. You know, my team won. So technically Nick was on my team, but he never actually played. So, you know, thanks for nothing, Nick. Appreciate that. You're welcome. My son made a comeback to team league, though, so that was fun. He played on our team, and it was fun to get out there and play with him.
    76:47
    And we're going to be – we've got to start thinking about fall league. So usually we announce that during the summer.
    76:54
    So if you're in the Buffalo area and you're interested in joining, check out buffalo pinball.com sign up for the mailing list there i know we have some some huge mailing list fans out there they very look forward to our uh occasional emails from from the league sign up for that and uh when we open up the um signups for for home league uh it'll go there and you'll you'll have a chance to get in on it teo pina is also calling calling for the north the American Pitbull Battle. Hopefully we'll be able to bring that back.
    77:26
    Yeah, I had to renew my passport and stuff. And then, yeah, we'll see. Life has been really busy, so we'll see. I'd like to do that. It's fun. That's a fun event. Like this weekend, I've got like two family events, and we're going to a concert next week, and it's like life is finally catching back up from the pandemic, I think.
    77:48
    So, yeah, that makes things difficult. But I was also thinking about doing maybe a little tournament here. We can talk about that offline while we prepare that. But if you're in the area, keep on the lookout for that. All right. I think it's review time. Let's talk about Novir. We'll be right back.
    78:07
    Let's go. I am okay. Whose life is horror? At least I've gotten away before. It's showtime. It's time to talk about No Fear. It was released by Williams in 1995. It's a Steve Ritchie design with art by Greg Ferris and Pat McMahon. Software lead was Matt Correal and sound by Dan Forden and Vince Ponarelli. Conor Alley. Pricing, according to Pinside, is in the $3,700 range. That's probably a little bit low, but I have seen some in that range, so that's a fair price for it, I think.
    78:56
    So, yeah, let's talk about No Fear. This is a game that I used to own. So, Nick, you've played it a bunch at my house and at Pinnberg and stuff over the years. Solid game. Let's kick it off by talking about the art. So, like we said, art was by Greg Ferris and Pat McMahon. I think it's really nicely done. Hand-drawn art it's a you know extreme sports theme so if you're a 90s kid you remember no fear t-shirts being all the rage at one point um so it's it's very extreme looking with fire and uh you know the back glass has you know the valvoline uh race car with fire coming out of the back and that guy's head exploding in fire and uh lightning and and huge waves and this dude's got a sweet mohawk and Look at all that. It's very 90s, very extreme. There's this guy jumping out of airplanes on a snowboard or whatever the hell that is.
    79:48
    Rock climbing. You know, flames on the cabinet. There's skulls, flaming skulls. So if all that sounds up your alley, then you might enjoy the art package of No Fear.
    80:02
    Nick, what do you think about the art on this game? Yeah, I mean, it's not bad. It doesn't really do anything for me per se. Maybe it's the theme. maybe it's the colors it's not uh i don't think it's particularly attractive um overall kind of package when you just when you just kind of look at it but it'd be hard for us to point out anything particularly that's bad about it if that makes sense it's very it's very orangey there's a lot of orange to it this one in particular that i have on the screen has orange uh powder coating and orange wire form so that increases the the orange overload but um even default there's a orange yellow and black those are kind of the prevailing colors and then there's some blue pops of blue and you know the lanes are all pretty pretty nicely defined as far as like where you need to shoot and things like that so so that helps um yeah i mean that's your basic no fear art package um the sound on it is pretty good from what i you know i haven't played it in a while it's been a few years since i owned it but the uh it's got a lot of a lot of rock guitar music um the skull uh it's probably uh dan ford and doing the voice of the skull if i had to guess um uh but he's the one that says play better and all that uh there's a lot of call outs it's who do you said i think it's dan ford and it does that doesn't it or do you think that steve richie does the skull dude 100 okay why would steve richie not do a voice in the game that he's working on that's true because he does yell at you that's 100 steve okay my bad all my nfts on it yeah wait that's not much of a wager i don't have that shit uh yeah rock music uh good call outs i don't know the the music fits the theme i think what do you think yeah it's good so i was i was coughing so i was on mute that's all i've been doing these days um yeah the the sound is is good for its time and appropriate for the theme you I feel like I'm ready to jump out of an airplane.
    82:06
    That's right. I like when – it is cool when you shoot the jump ramp. So one of the play field features we'll talk about later is the jump where you shoot it through the upper loop, and then you can jump it, and after you hit a couple in a row, the skull starts screaming and stuff like that. So it's good. It does a good job of getting you hyped, which that's what you want out of a pinball machine, I think.
    82:29
    Toys. so the skull is like the main toy on the play field but it's not a toy that interacts directly with the balls there's a I think I have a shot of it here you can see underneath there's a scoop that you shoot it into and then the skull talks and he moves his mouth which is cool and his eyes light up there's kind of a side angle on him so he's a cool toy and then the other like main gimmick of the game is the jump ramp which you shoot the left ramp and it feeds to a magnet accelerated ramp in the back so if you don't hit it quite fast enough it boosts your ball and gets it up to that upper flipper and then you can shoot it across and there's actually a little jump. Let's see if I got a better angle on that. You can kind of see, well not really there. Right there. It jumps across from the plastic to the metal part of the ramp so that's a cool cool gimmick i like that a lot um other than that it's it's pretty straightforward steve ritchie layout you got your your far left saucer like he likes to do a bunch of lanes a bunch of a bunch of uh two orbits a couple ramp shots um the just to the there's a little inner orbit that shoots around the skull you can see there um just to the left of that there's a a lane that ends in a scoop where you shoot the um there's a drop target that stands up and you shoot past that to start your modes and things like that you also do your ball locks there um um so those are that's like that's like the main the main play field features and toys what do you think what do you think about the toys on this game this skull is kind of cool you know it's there's there's not a ton of times it's pretty much the skull but again i think it's seem appropriate.
    84:24
    Seems kind of light in terms of stuff, especially for the time period where I think there was definitely cooler toys in games of that time period. So in that respect, I feel like this is a toy of today that you would get and you'd just shut up and be happy with it. But in the 90s for Williams, it's kind of lacking. Yeah, I agree with that. You think about stuff like even the other games Steve Ritchie was doing, like Star Trek Next Generation. They had two cannons and all this other you know cool stuff on it that um you know belly williams was kind of crushing it at that point as far as like stuff on the play field and interactive unique interactive mechs and this this doesn't have that um but it's got a fun fast layout um display and lighting um nothing nothing really you know that's kind of like of the times right the the display and lighting on the lighting in particular on games of this era were just kind of whatever you know you got your inserts you got your gi maybe a couple flashers and you know you're not getting toy story or gnr level rgb leds right you're getting you're getting lighting that does the job um the display the dot work was pretty good not great on this i don't remember being particularly wowed by any of the the display work or animations on the on the dmd uh nick am i missing anything on that there might be something I'm not thinking of. No, nothing stands out in particular on this game to me. I mean, it's funny when we talk about like lighting and stuff on 90s games. Most of them are not anything that stays fresh in my mind. I mean, it's been a number of years since I played this game. So, you know, full disclosure, I've not owned it like Kevin. I've played it enough in tournaments, but there's nothing that I would want to wax poetic about it in terms of that. There's also nothing bad it's it tends to i think it tends to be a darker game too this might be a game it's like you talk about pin stadiums i bet it would look a hell of a lot better if it had a set on that you know some games are just like they beg for it yeah like games of this era you know even like having the the flashers going off on on pin stadiums and stuff would really kind of like take the lighting to an x level i think i think games from the 90s have the potential to do light shows and moments like i think of the the multi-ball start on adam's family right when you know everything shuts down and it goes boom and it leads to this big yeah moment or uh like power down and johnny mnemonic that's a really cool like integrated light show kind of kind of time but um yeah for for the most part like your your uh average gameplay lighting is pretty pretty average on this era of game, this game in particular I think for sure why don't you give your thoughts on the gameplay since I've been doing a lot of the talking what do you think about the gameplay on this game yeah it's pretty fast there's tight shots that are farther back, it's pretty fun to shoot, I think the upper playfield's pretty fun when you go up there being able to ramp a loop after loop is fairly satisfying not necessarily the greatest upper play field in the world but but certainly a good one all right it's it's hard for me to say anything bad about it and it doesn't it doesn't slow down the game it doesn't feel like it doesn't exist up there it feels like it feels like legitimate there for a reason and it's well balanced in terms of going up there and doing other things in the game yeah this it's it's a fast flowing like steve richie layout right you're gonna you're gonna hit a lot of shots you're gonna get the ball back to the flipper quickly um you're just gonna be always have the ball in motion uh and that's because that's the the kind of games that he designed so um when i first played this it was after so i had played this at pinbury for papa one of the two is at the old papa headquarters when i played it first and it reminded me sort of of star trek i mean not not totally but i was like I got like kind of some Star Trek vibes, the Stern Star Trek in particular, because I know there are multiple Star Treks over the years, but yeah, I was like, Oh, this is kind of Star Trek ish, which makes sense because it's a Steve Richie game. You know, it's got like those, those arrow inserts, which are evocative of Star Trek and just that, that fast, quick layout.
    88:43
    I think this is a good bang for the buck kind of game. And we'll get into that. I know folks are always looking for reasonably priced games in today's market and I think this is one of those games where you can have a lot of fun, get a cool Steve Ritchie layout and not pay a fortune for it I think that's one of the best things this game has going for it Gameplay wise it's not super deep It's got basically you progress through your modes to get to the uh there's there's like these three let me see if i forget what their names are uh the three like mini wizard modes uh where is it no limits meet your maker and fear fest i think are the three of them it's hard to see on these pictures um so it's cool that it's got like these multiple mini wizard modes that you can get to along the way um but it's not particularly hard to do it either.
    89:44
    So I think that's pretty standard for this era of game too because you weren't getting super deep rule sets in games in the 90s but you were getting, if you're looking for a mode based game where there's like a wizard mode at the end versus something like say Fishtails or something like that where it's more of a go for a big score kind of game then I think No Fear might be up your alley. It's got payback time which another Steve Ritchie go-to gameplay feature where if you ramp out, you'll eventually get to a quick scoring payback time, which we first saw in Terminator 2, so things like that. This has got a couple different ways that you can approach it if you want to go from a score perspective. When I was hosting league and tournaments, when I owned this game, that's what kind of made this interesting. It's like, oh, strategically, do I want to try to go for multi-ball? Do I want to go for payback time do you want to play through the game and kind of progress through the uh through the modes and kind of score that way because there's decent scoring in the modes too but if you can get to the super jackpots in the in the multi balls that's it's a good way to go to trying to hit that that cross play field uh you know jump ramp during the during multi balls a fun way to fun way to go um what do you thought thoughts on the gameplay and rules on this yeah how much is this game going for right now anywhere from like the the mid threes and up you know 35 and up probably this is a good game for the people who are like oh rules are complex right like this this is like your crowd right like i just like the simple like shoot this and that's that this is the game for you right like if that's what you know scratches your itch get it i think um you know there's there's not a lot to it right like this is a game for almost 30 years ago and we've come a long way and I think we demand more and made a lot of progress in terms of just what we could do rules wise so for me like I don't get really interested in Williams games that you had this game cabin I would go and I'd play it a couple times and then walk away and be done with it and never I wouldn't be thinking about the rest of my day you know I wouldn't be like there's really no like too many strategies or anything that you can implement it's kind of pure pinball you play it and um i think it's a good game for maybe somebody who wants a pinball machine that's a you know more modern one right that's not it's got dmd at least um but it's just like listen i want something i want to break the bank i just want to have a pinball machine my home this is this is probably a good choice to have this is my son's this is my son's all-time favorite pinball machine he will never let me live down the fact that i sold this game well dude he's gonna get a job next year you could you could buy his own i told him that's your life goal like it was for adam's family when me with me when i was a kid like that was the game i always wanted so there you go you can set your slates on a no fear down the line i wouldn't be opposed to owning it again if you know if you if you would enjoy playing it i probably wouldn't play it much um i sold it back then because ghostbusters was coming out and i wanted to to get some funds together for ghostbusters so it went towards that which turned into um hobbit which turned into toy stories that's the journey of my no fear uh which i'm i'm happy with where we're at i would much rather have toy story than no fear uh but it's a solid game i think you can't go wrong if you're looking for something in this price point um you don't despite what other folks might think you don't have to be an extreme sports fan to enjoy no fear you can you can enjoy this game even if you don't watch NASCAR or if you haven't jumped out of an airplane or if you're not an extreme water skier or whatever the other modes are. You can have fun with this game. You can enjoy it. If you want a fast-paced game with some fun rules and it doesn't take itself too seriously, then I think you'd enjoy No Fear. As far as last ability, I don't think this game has a lot of last ability didn't last super long in my collection um but like i said you know it's one of those games where you're gonna have fun with it for a while you're probably gonna um get to the wizard mode it's not super tough to get there and then you'll be ready to move on but in the meantime you're probably gonna have a good time um i think you know nick was talking to that as far as last ability and his comments too like you know and play it a couple times and and you're good uh if it's in your house you'll play it more and get to the wizard mode and then you'll be moving on um so all right let's go to our uh our ratings oh that's not our ratings i don't i didn't have that queued up i'll just bring it up over here um i have to give this the ranking scale like what are your thoughts on last ability yeah i don't i don't think there's a lot of last ability for you know somebody who can relate to where I'm at as a player.
    94:52
    There's just really nothing interesting there in terms of rules. And I think that's what it comes down to, last ability. Are the rules there? Is the challenge there? You can have great rules, but if you're beating the game every time you step up to it, then I think that's poor last ability.
    95:08
    So, you know, you're dealing with a 90s rule set from 95. It just doesn't keep, right? I keep on wanting to kind of push the limits of rules. That's why I think rules just get better over time. And just like my description earlier of talking about why I like Mando better than Deadpool, I think there's just more there and the rules are more interesting. And I can see like Mando lasting longer.
    95:37
    Remains to be seen. So, yeah, the last ability is pretty low on this one for someone like myself. again for the i for people who just want simple rules and super straightforward and don't care about that then you know your mileage may vary all right so the score key is uh zero to two is a burn it three to five expensive nightlight six to eight solid game nine to ten get your wallets out where would you where would you put this game in the in the grand scheme of things i'll give a six i mean it's a solid game right on the low end of a solid game yeah that's exactly what i was thinking it's a six it's a you know you're gonna have fun with it it's a it doesn't have anything particularly bad that i was like oh i hate this part of this game but there's nothing there that really stands out as this is oh this is amazing exceptional like you're not gonna find this in any other pinball machine um you're gonna have fun you're gonna you're gonna shoot the ball around you're gonna get to the wizard mode eventually and then you're gonna be done with it that's that's my thoughts on on no fear all right all right that's good we agree awesome well they I've been not playing for a while. Yeah. Again, this is a good, like, hey, I want to get into pinball. What's a game to get? Grab a no fair.
    96:50
    You know, I think this is a good, like, early in your pinball journey, you don't want to run out and buy a new Stern or something like that. Grab one of these bad boys. Enjoy it for a while, and then save your money and work your way up. Turn it into something else. Enjoy it for a while, and then move on up. All right. So that's going to do it for another episode of Brody even talk pinball. Thanks everybody for tuning in. Um, if you haven't yet, uh, be sure to follow us on all of our social media. It's at the bottom here. It's, uh, we're on both at Buffalo pinball.com. We're also Buffalo pinball on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube. If you want to see archives of the old, uh, shows and things you may have missed all 68 other episodes of Brody even talk pinball live there. Um, you can also follow us on Facebook, join the group, uh, join the chat or, uh, get in on the discord and, uh, and talk about pinball stuff over there. Um, you can email us if you prefer to, uh, drop some feedback via email, talk pinball at gmail.com. You can follow us on Twitch and use your prime subscription over there. If you want to support the channel, um, or, uh, your standard, uh, Twitch subs are, uh, appreciated there as well. Uh, you can support us on PayPal, Buffalo pinball at gmail.com. If you want to send a little something via PayPal, or you can drop a review if you want a nice way to provide some feedback to support the show. Tell a friend, pass the show along to one of your friends and say, hey, I appreciate this show. If you're just tuning in and you missed the show, don't worry. It'll be archived here on YouTube or on Twitch. It'll also be on YouTube. It's also on anywhere you get your podcasts if you want to listen to it in podcast form. I also have been uploading it as video on, what's that one? Spotify. Spotify also supports video podcasts. So I've been putting this up in video format so you can listen to it in audio format there or watch the video feed there as well. So that's going to do it for another month. Get out there, do some grilling, hang out with your friends, go outside, go America. Dude, come play Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles with me and Kevin. Let's do this. Let's organize this in Discord. Six player TMNT. Like it's 1989. Let's go. All right. We'll see you guys in the meantime. So tune in later tonight. I'm going to do an unboxing of all this stuff on Twitch. People love seeing stuff come out of a box. Nothing more exciting. Yeah. What is... It's killing me. What's in the box? Look at all the stuff in the box. If only it will just come out. There's stuff in a box. It's got to come out of the box. Oh, God. I know what it looks like. But I still want to see it just emerge from the box like it's giving birth to a pinball machine. I'm going to go have some hot dogs and hamburgers, and we'll come back, and we're going to unbox this stuff. It needs to be so good.
    99:36
    And then Monday night, if all goes well, I'll be playing Weird Al again. So I'm really looking forward to that. You're a Weird Al. Your face is a Weird Al. Yeah, got him. Do you want me to fucking hurt a little bit? I can't believe you just did that publicly.
    99:51
    Do you want me to come over on Monday? and uh hell yeah we should see if Patrick and Matt want to come out too let's bro show the shit out of this let's make it a party let's do this alright Weird Al bro show maybe on Monday alright it'll be supporting the celebrating the 4th of July with Weird Al what could be more American than that alright until next time we'll see ya bye