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Episode 256 - Interview with Phil Bogema 11-15-15

For Amusement Only EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·54m 1s·analyzed·Nov 22, 2015
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Phil Hooper describes acquiring 18+ bingo machines from a Colorado barn and shares advanced restoration techniques.

Summary

Phil Hooper discusses a major acquisition of 1950s bingo pinball machines from a Colorado barn—approximately 18-20 games that had been stored for 35 years on a remote ranch. He details his cosmetic restoration techniques for backglasses and cabinet artwork using Photoshop, PDF printing, and spray painting, and explores solutions for reproducing backglasses including discussions of silk screening, vinyl printing, and the defunct mirroring process. Phil also mentions a potential future acquisition of ~100 machines in a climate-controlled warehouse.

Key Claims

  • Phil acquired approximately 18-20 bingo machines from the 1950s stored in a barn in eastern Colorado for 35 years, requiring one day to transport them via 25-foot truck, pickup truck, and SUV

    high confidence · Phil Hooper directly describing his acquisition adventure in August 2015

  • The machines came from a 30,000-acre (44 square mile) ranch where the machines had been operated by the seller's deceased father throughout the eastern Colorado plains

    high confidence · Phil Hooper's detailed description of the location and ownership history

  • Phil uses a technique of printing scaled artwork on PDF, tiling it across 8.5x11 inch sheets (approximately 8-10 sheets for a cabinet side), then using grid lines and double-sided tape to maintain stencil placement during spray painting

    high confidence · Phil Hooper's detailed explanation of his cosmetic restoration process

  • Original mirroring used on bingo backglasses was outlawed due to environmental concerns (potential groundwater contamination), making reproduction backglasses without authentic mirroring

    medium confidence · Phil Hooper stating this as fact, though he expressed some uncertainty about the specific regulatory reason

  • A source has informed Phil of approximately 100 bingo machines in a climate-controlled warehouse in northern Colorado that may become available in one to two years

    medium confidence · Phil Hooper describing hints dropped by an unnamed source about a potential future acquisition opportunity

  • Phil has approximately 200 NOS (new old stock) clutches that have never been installed in a machine

    high confidence · Phil Hooper directly stating his inventory of spare parts

  • The machines acquired show signs of proper maintenance—notably, the extra ball unit was still connected, which Phil describes as rare

    high confidence · Phil Hooper's assessment of the barn machines' condition

Notable Quotes

  • “I walked into this barn. It was basically a metal shed where they had tractors and farm equipment, and on the left side there were probably six machines set up on the right side there was probably twelve more that were stacked and they were dirty filthy filthy dirty”

    Phil Hooper @ ~09:30 — Vivid description of the barn discovery that launched the major acquisition

  • “I told these people, I said, your dad was a fair guy. He didn't [disconnect the extra ball unit]. And I showed him what I meant by that... I thought that was very rare, you hardly ever see that”

    Phil Hooper @ ~35:00 — Indicates how well-maintained the machines were, suggesting proper operator care

  • “I can't stand to see these things just, it just kills me. It's like a baby or something. You don't want it to be misused. You know, they're not making them anymore”

    Phil Hooper @ ~20:00 — Reveals Phil's preservation-focused motivation for acquiring and restoring machines

  • “this fella, he sort of was dropping hints around that he knows where a big huge stash of these bingos are in a heated warehouse up north. He said there's about a hundred of them and they've been inside in a climate controlled warehouse for years and years and years”

    Phil Hooper @ ~21:30 — Suggests potential future acquisition that could rival or exceed the barn find

  • “I'm an accountant. I never do anything... I pay some taxes. You never see really the end result... So this is the one thing that I can do where after I'm finished with it, I can see the end result”

    Phil Hooper @ ~16:00 — Explains personal motivation for machine restoration work beyond pure collecting

  • “It's like a vicious circle, right? I get the parts when I need the games, when I need to get the games when I need more parts”

    Phil Hooper @ ~25:00 — Humorous self-aware commentary on his collecting and parts-acquisition cycle

  • “You really didn't start playing these things because you were a boy scout, you know? But once you learn the nuances of these things and you start to play and learn and get into the techniques, it's just so fascinating”

Entities

Phil HooperpersonNick BaldridgepersonJohn RobinettepersonSteve SmithpersonChris DadepersonSun ValleygameKey WestgameShowtimegameBeach Timegame

Signals

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Phil Hooper describes detailed workflow for cabinet artwork reproduction using Photoshop, PDF tiling across 8.5x11 sheets (8-10 sheets typical for cabinet side), grid-line overlays, and spray painting with double-sided tape stencil technique to prevent overspray

    high · Extended discussion of printing methodology: 'I do it into a PDF file and go into a PDF printer and print them as tiled and you can get it exactly the right size to scale... I put grid lines in and always a certain space apart so that I know that, you know, eight or ten inches apart'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Rumor of ~100 bingo machines in climate-controlled warehouse in northern Colorado potentially available in 1-2 years; source unnamed and details unconfirmed

    medium · Phil states: 'this fella, he sort of was dropping hints around that he knows where a big huge stash of these bingos are in a heated warehouse up north. He said there's about a hundred of them and they've been inside in a climate controlled warehouse for years and years and years'

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Multiple approaches being explored for backglass reproduction including silk screening, vinyl printing (multi-layer with diffusion properties), and plexi printing; original mirroring process no longer available due to environmental regulations

    high · Phil discusses experimenting with multiple techniques: glass sandwich, silk screening, vinyl printing, and upcoming trial with direct plexi printing; notes: 'The chemical that they used apparently could get into the water table or something... they're not allowed to use that anymore'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Phil Hooper acquired 18-20 bingo machines from 1950s stored in eastern Colorado barn for 35 years; required major logistical effort (25-foot truck, pickup truck, SUV); machines reportedly in decent condition with intact extra-ball units

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.162

0:00
What's that sound? It's For Amusement Only, the EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast. Welcome back to For Amusement Only. This is Nick Baldrige and with me is my return guest, Phil Boguema. Phil, how are you doing? I'm good, Nick. How are you? I'm doing well, thank you. Good. Nice to talk to you again. Same here. Bill, I understand you've had a lot going on since last time we talked. Yeah, I think I talked to you in June and when we had that conversation, I think you asked me whether I was looking for any more games at that point. And I said no, I was trying to get the ones that I had all fixed up and decide what to do with them. And it turned out that in August, I'd been looking for a sweet Shawnee or some kind of a flasher game by Keeney that I wanted to add to my collection here. And I saw one on Craigslist, so I called the guy and I went over and looked at it. He had kind of a little storage unit there. I told him that I was really into the bingo machines more than anything. I said, if you come across any bingo machines, let me know because I know how hard they are to find around here. Well, about a week later, the guy called me and said that he had found a guy out in eastern I was in a barn in Colorado that had a pile of these things in a barn and they'd been sitting there 35 years I think. Wow. And I said, boy, that's just what I need. But you know, you can't turn them down. And what happened is, apparently, this fella, his father had operated these machines all over the eastern plains. And I don't know, you know, from the east coast if you've never been to Colorado, it's split into two kind of right down the middle. The mountains start in the middle of the state. A lot of Colorado's just farmland and flat. And that's where these games were running and the VFWs and things like that out there. I'm going to show you a video that I made a long time ago. It turns out that this fellow that was running them has passed away and his son, two sons, and their granddaughter didn't know what to do with the games. They didn't want to just get rid of them because they belonged to their dad and it was kind of important to them. So as it turned out, they found out what I was doing with these things and how much I love these games. And so they said, well, we want you to take the games if you want the games. So I got a truck and two other guys and we drove out there and it was about 100 miles one way. And loading them up, we loaded them with a 25 foot truck, a pickup truck and an SUV full of these things. I mean it was completely full. Wow. I think I heard about your little escapade out there at the York show and you had some issue in your truck there because something fell or I don't know. There was no way anything was going to fall over in this truck because they were jammed in there completely. There was nowhere for anything to move. And we went out there and I walked into this barn. It was basically a metal shed where they had tractors and farm equipment. and on the left side there were probably six machines set up on the right side there was probably twelve more that were stacked and they were dirty filthy filthy dirty and then they had flasher machines you know i don't know if you know what i mean by those but they're just kind of like slot machines with replay meters that's all they are And he said, well, the deal was, he said, I want you to come, but I don't want you to take, you know, just pick and choose because this guy didn't want to deal with it. And I said, okay, I'll take, I'll take everything except the flashers. I mean, I was interested in the bingo. So we went and we, and we, I looked and I said, oh my God, how am I going to get all this in there? Because it was more than what they told me. Oh, wow. I'm in the back I was driving behind the guy, I'm like Jesus Christ, I hope the whole thing doesn't tip over but we made it back and one day and I went and we went to a relative's house and mine has a really large storage area at his house and unloaded all these games and we went and we had a good time. Jerry g Rabbit, You know, there's some capability that might be able to pick up some of these games because I don't want to, I don't have time to go through all of them, but anybody that decides to do this needs to know that they're really rough, so they probably need to know what they're doing. Yeah, so that's where it is. So what did you get? Well, they're all 1950s games, but the turning corners and stuff, I've got, let's see, I have, I think a couple Sun Valleys, three Key Wests, I think there's four Showtime games, two Beach Times, a Carnival Queen touchdown, two A few Miss America 57s and a parade. So that's what was there. There's a Surf Club cabinet. I wish there would have been a Surf Club head because I like that game but I don't know what happened to that. Also, a Showtime head that's all kind of beat up that we use for parts. There's about 16 back glasses, too. Some of them are in okay shape, some of them are kind of rough, but I think they'd be usable for people. I didn't even inventory those. I think there's a couple beach times and there's a good roller derby, but you know, things like that. So, it was, yeah, it was amazing. I mean, you know, I told you about this right when it came up and I didn't believe it was real. Yeah. Well, I'm, you know, you get to be a little skeptical about these things after you get to be my agent. Well, and it sounded like it was, I had just met the guy and I thought, nah, this can't be right, but sure enough. So I think it's healthy to be skeptical. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I mean, it turned out that the seller that I bought, I ended up buying that sweet Shawnee and, and he was a really nice guy. He's a dealer out here. He's been doing it for about 40 years. I've been with him for a few years and I've talked to him about 20 years ago but I hadn't had any more contact with him since then and so it was kind of interesting to know that he was still here for one thing and that there were actually bingos that I could go drive and pick up. Yeah. That's a pretty cool story, a rare kind of warehouse. It is. I mean, I hear about things like this but I've never actually done it myself. There you go. The neat thing about it is, you know, nobody got to see the games before, so you don't know what you're going to get. Right. You don't know, I didn't know when I was driving out there if I was going to end up with just piles of junk that I'd have to drive right to the dump. Right. You just don't know, you know? Yeah. So, and they were, they were pretty dirty. I mean, dirt, 35 years of dirt in these things. Mm-hmm. So, uh, he had a master key to open all the front doors. Ah. And so that made it good. And they were all pretty much locked. We got a few little rodent issues, I think. But, you know, they'd been there some time ago and probably had, you know, camps or something. But I cleaned all that stuff out. Everything's pretty clean now. Oh, good. Yeah. Comment, the I'm Bill Philips, for

Phil Hooper @ ~45:00 — Reflects on the appeal of bingo machines to players and the depth of gameplay mechanics

Miss America 57
game
Bikinigame
Bountygame
Gate Timegame
Paradegame
Carnivalgame
Queen Touchdowngame
Roller Derbygame
Surf Clubgame
Pop It Cardgame
Eastern Coloradolocation
For Amusement Only EM and Bingo Pinball Podcastorganization
Arcade Graphicscompany

high · Direct account of barn acquisition: 'we loaded them with a 25 foot truck, a pickup truck and an SUV full of these things... loading them up... completely full... about 100 miles one way'

  • ?

    parts_sourcing_signal: Phil has accumulated significant NOS (new old stock) parts inventory including ~200 unused clutches, magic screen cards (9, 1, 2, 11 variants), shooter housings, and instruction cards; describes this as a collecting weakness

    high · Phil states: 'I've got about 200 of these clutches that have never been in a game... I always try to buy the stuff NOS if I can find it... I can't turn it down, you know. I've got a weakness'

  • ?

    community_signal: Phil expressing willingness to mentor others interested in bingo machine restoration and offering to help people start with machines sourced from knowledgeable sellers; concerned about preservation and finding good homes for machines

    high · Phil: 'I would be happy to help anybody with if they're willing to, if they want to take the plunge so to speak... if you'd buy from somebody that knows what they're doing instead of just some widow that has one sitting in her basement you can get a little education and that's a good way to start'

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: Original backglass mirroring chemical banned due to environmental/water table concerns; makes authentic reproductions difficult; some European providers reportedly using alternative methods

    medium · Phil: 'The chemical that they used apparently could get into the water table or something... they're not allowed to use that anymore... There's one fellow over there in Belgium or something that's doing it. He's got some kind of a method'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Acquired machines came from deceased operator who ran bingo route throughout eastern Colorado plains on 30,000-acre ranch; machines show signs of professional maintenance and proper care

    high · Phil: 'this fellow that was running them has passed away and his sons, two sons, and their granddaughter didn't know what to do with the games... I told these people... your dad was a fair guy. He didn't [disconnect the extra ball unit]... I thought that was very rare'

  • ?

    content_signal: Nick Baldridge's For Amusement Only podcast credited by Phil as raising awareness about bingo machines and encouraging broader community interest; previously games were dismissed but now gaining appreciation

    high · Phil: 'thanks to you and all of the publicity of the shows getting here, I think a lot of people are finding out about these machines and what great machines they are... I think finally people are trying to figure this out now thanks to what you're doing here'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Nick Baldridge describes experimenting with multilayered vinyl printing for backglasses that diffuses light properly, uses caulking to seal, creates single-piece construction, and avoids fragility issues of thin glass sandwich approach

    high · Nick: 'I wound up using something sandwiched between two pieces of glass... I wound up with, because I have one of those Chris Dade repros... they liked the challenge... What I ended up doing was having a multilayered file and having them print it directly onto vinyl'

    • 10:12
    diseases. Justin Fields, defined by thousands, China active child or man, it's been time since 1%死, there're no lie, today just a few easily terminated with בעี
    10:31
    who's a kid по I'm going to go ahead and get the rest of them. Wow. And I want to. I either want to do it myself or have somebody else have an opportunity to do this because I think for one thing it's important to these people that I owe them this and I want to make sure that happens. When I get one of these working, just mechanically I think I'll bring it back up there and the guy would be interested in doing that and just putting it in his house. I think it would be good for him. Cool. Yeah, yeah. That's good. But I won't go through the complete restoration or anything like that. You saw some of the stuff I do there. It takes a long time to do that. I did and I've got to tell you I am very, very impressed. I have a lot of patience. I never posted very many of those photos or never really talked about it much. I do enjoy doing that. I showed you a picture of that Miss America 57 I restored in Aledo and you saw the silver sails that the cabinet on that thing was beat when I got it. That was very impressive, yes. That was the first one that I really tried to restore. You know what happened? You finally met John Robinette at the show I saw, huh? Yeah, that was great. Yeah, well, he, uh, I found that back glass. I wasn't restoring that game because the back glass was broken. I couldn't find one. So, but I did, uh, and he sent me the glass and at that point I got motivated and that was the beginning of this whole process for me to try to learn how to make them look good. So if they look good, you know, and then my wife doesn't care if they come in the house or not. So that's kind of it. Well, Phil, do you mind if I post a couple of those pictures with this interview? Oh, no, I'd be happy. I'd be happy if you did that. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, I'm sure people will love to see that because I've got to tell everybody who's listening that Phil has some phenomenal skills here. on científicomяти and graduate student the but uh... cosmetically uh... these are incredible transition ca shorts with them all торonto ивать
    13:11
    pleading with well I finally getting around to this bikini Steve Smith sent me some photos of his machine The one that I have gone then uh original artworks not there and so i needed a prototype or something so i could go into photoshop and do all this and so i've got all the stencils and in fact i've been painting that one now so hopefully i'll be done with that in a month or so if it doesn't get too cold here so here's my question for you because uh... i think one of the photos you sent was the before on that one is that right Let's get this started. Steve A.: So you had pictures of Steve's machine and then you put them into Photoshop and got them sized appropriately and so forth. Bob Betor.: Yes, well you've got to get the perspective right. Well, qualidade porque señor I do it into a PDF file and go into a PDF printer and print them as tiled and you can get it exactly the right size to scale and you piece this stuff together and then I just cut it that way. I think it looks pretty good. It's a very time consuming process. So you actually piece it together from eight and a half by eleven sheets? Yes. Oh my gosh, Phil. Well, it turns out, you know, like for a cabinet side, it's about ten sheets of paper. And it really isn't that hard to do, you know, you just print them out and you gotta make sure you overlay them right. So I put grid lines in and always a certain space apart so that I know that, you know, eight or ten inches apart, so I take a ruler and I make sure that I'm laying everything out exactly right. So, that's the, that's the main thing. And it turns out pretty good. Wow. Yeah. And then the, I don't know, have you ever sprayed a machine? I've helped, I've helped Steve spray some. So that's as close as I've gotten. Well, the question that I have is how other people are doing this in terms of maintaining the stencil so there's not too much spray that, you know, under spray, is that what they call it? I don't know. Sometimes those things lift up and so I got a way that I've done that. There's two ways that I've done that.
    16:55
    I used to, well first you try that tack spray, that doesn't work because it doesn't leave any of the, it doesn't look like it's from the factory when you're done with it. It's too clean. So, what I was doing for a while was just taking like a paper punch and putting holes onto the stencil itself because I used poster board and then taking this painter's tape and you can lay the tape right over all those punch holes right along the edge of the stencil and you'll get a very small left but it will keep the thing tight and it really turns out well but not but what i'm doing now i'm just trying to use double-sided tape and put it all the way around the edges because there's nothing i hate worse than spending a lot of time doing this and then having something go wrong and the under spray is too much and you gotta fix it so uh... I'd be interested to hear what other people's solutions are for that because I've always sort of struggled with them and it's taken me a lot of time.
    18:09
    Well, I've seen what Steve does, like I said, and I've helped him with that. And he uses poster board as well. And he just weights it down. You know, not so much that it can't move at all, especially in the areas where you're spraying directly, but Um, that prevents it from lifting so much that the underspray gets, or overspray gets to be crazy. Yeah. Um, I tried that and it didn't really, I don't know, maybe I did it wrong, but, you know, I tried putting rocks and bricks and all kinds of junk. That's basically it. I couldn't get the desired result, but maybe I just, I don't know. Anyway, this is the thing that works best for me, but it takes forever. I'm going to have to retire at some point, but until I do that I don't have a lot of I'm a little bit busy. I don't have time to work on everything. I'm busy half the time. I got family obligations and a job that keeps me pretty busy. So you're saying you're not in bingo mode 24-7? No, I can't be. I mean, I'd like to be. Actually, you know, I think I'm getting... Well, this is sort of a rebound for me, you know, because I was really involved with it, I've been playing pinball since the late 90s, about 2006 or 2007. And then I had all kinds of stuff come up and I sort of shelved it for a while, but now I'm back and I just love this. It's just so interesting. And you need a hobby. Everybody needs a hobby and everybody needs something to keep them occupied and busy and thinking. And I'm glad I have that. Yeah, and it's definitely a fun one. Yeah, yeah. It's nice to start out with something terrible and then end up with something great. Well, it really is because I tell you, I'm an accountant. I never do anything. I mean, I take a piece of paper and I move it from one side of the desk to the other or I pay some taxes. You never see really the end result. It never ends. So this is the one thing that I can do where after I'm finished with it, I can see the end result and say, you know, well, I think I did a good job or I could have done this better. I mean, there are some paint jobs that I've done initially. I did a Showtime quite a long time ago, and I thought it was pretty good when I did it. And then I looked at it later and I thought, geez, I really didn't know what I was doing. Well, it takes time to build up your repertoire of skills. Well, it does. I mean, I still am not, you know, like Steve, I know he's a woodworker and I don't know how to do any of that. I don't either. No. I mean, I know how to maybe sand a piece of wood. I can put some poly on there. But In terms of like fabricating anything like that, that's amazing to me that you can do that, or anyone can do that for that matter. Same here. So, and I don't know how much time I want to spend on these games in terms of cosmetics, but if I decide to keep, you know, a few of them, I don't have a lot of room. You know, I probably have room for six games downstairs. I've got a big basement, but I've got all kinds of stuff down there now, big TVs and bars and stuff like that, so it's pretty neat. At one point I had 30 plus games down there and there's just no room for that anymore. So I'm going to have to figure out something to do with these and if anybody is interested, they can get in touch with me. I don't know if there's any bingo collectors around Denver that would even want them. It's worth a shot. Yeah, well, maybe somebody's listening and you can give them my email address. I'd rather not put it out over the air, but if you get somebody that would be interested, you can have them email me. Okay. Yeah, so the other thing is that it's just hard to assess. I mean, I haven't even plugged these in yet. Right. Although I can tell you that I looked inside these games and I know that they took good care of these games. You can tell when you can, I mean, for instance, I saw the extra step unit and it wasn't disconnected. Oh, huh. So I told, actually told these people, I said, your, your dad was a fair guy. He didn't. And I showed him what, what I meant by that. and how he you know and i thought that was very rare you hardly ever see that so that was uh my first clue and i found in the cabinets some schematics some manuals
    23:51
    i found mouse nests that had previously been schematics They're going to take a little bit of your time. I'll let you take it. That's what I normally find. But that's what happens. I mean, my God, they're in a barn in eastern Colorado. You know this ranch that I went to, we drove ten miles off the freeway and then ten miles out on a dirt road. We went to this place and it was a 30,000 acre ranch. I think that's about 44 square miles. So these people were... I have a feeling that the guy made quite a bit of money running these things at some point in time because that's a lot of land. I mean even in Colorado in the eastern plains, that's a big ranch. Yeah. So... So, a lot of space for bingos. Yeah, but it was interesting because, you know, I'd never, I would never had a reason to go out there at all. So... There you go. It was fun and it was really an adventure. So I've got that going for me and my wife is sort of, I don't know, she's all right with it I think. But she just thinks I'm nuts. But then I told her, and I let you know this, this fella, he sort of was dropping hints around that he knows where a big huge stash of these bingos are in a heated warehouse up north. He said there's about a hundred of them and they've been inside in a climate controlled warehouse for years and years and years. He told me the fellow that owns them has all the money he needs and he doesn't want, he's too lazy to do anything with them. Okay. So I think maybe a year or two down the road you might be hearing something about that at least. I was going to say, do you have the truck warmed up already? Not yet. Well good. Doug, you never know. Hey, it's one thing always leads to another. Yeah, it does. Well, that's the thing. I mean, I was dead serious when I told you I wasn't looking for any more games when I talked. But I can't stand to see these things just, it just kills me. It's like a baby or something. You don't want it to be misused. You know, they're not making them anymore, so you just don't want that to happen. So, anyway, that's it. So do you have anything going on aside from the bikini with your own collection As far as stuff you working on or stuff you thinking about working on or anything Well I got a little bit of mechanical work to do on the gate time Mm-hmm. That's almost finished, but I've got a little problem with the numbers, you know, the holes jumping. I don't know. I haven't had time to really look at it yet, but it'll work at the end of the game. IN PINBALL BIN As I said, a lot of these games I pick them up and then I don't do anything with them for a long time. But that's okay with me because it's like if I work on all of them and I get them all done then I don't have anything to do. Yeah. So I just take my time and I tend to be, I might be a little bit ADD, I'm not sure, because I skip around, you know. I'll do something and then I'll go on to something else. Then I'll come back and after the bikini's done then I'm going to do the bounty. So that'll be the next cosmetic machine. I got the NOS back glass for that and I've got some really nice stuff. I found a bunch of NOS stuff out in the northwest last month. And I picked up a pile of the magic screen cards, you know, the 9, 1, 2, 11, a bunch of those NLS. They were still in the cardboard. And shooter housings. I've got some instruction cards. I think it's the little ones that say, you know, hold our button down until all balls dump. I think that was. I've got about 15 of those NOS, so I'll never use all those. I don't think if anybody needs one, let me know. I can't even remember. I always try to buy the stuff NOS if I can find it. I mean, I even have about 200 of these clutches that have never been in a game. So I can't turn it down, you know. I've got a weakness. Keep picking up games. I'm sure you'll use them. Well, that's, of course. You know, that's the idea. I can't, it's sort of a vicious circle, right? Yeah. I get the parts when I need the games, when I need to get the games when I need more parts. Yep. So, but that's okay. But my concern is that I need to find a good home for these because I can't keep all of them. Mm-hmm. I'm not looking to make, you know, I'd like to recover in the end at least the cost that I have on.
    30:17
    And it wasn't a lot, believe me, but I had to buy a truck and pay for labor and that kind of thing to get them here. That's all. Yeah. Well, it sounds like somebody can get a deal on some fixer-uppers. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Good titles too. Yeah. I mean, Sun Valley, that's a fantastic game. You know what? And that's cool because I've never played one of those. Ooh, Phil. That's a really good game. Yeah, and I looked at that thing and I'm like, this looks like it's great. So I'm kind of looking forward to that too. And by the way, there's an extra Sun Valley backglass. That's another one because one of these glasses was kind of rough. I'm a little bit of a ruff, but then I looked in his stash and there's another glass I could put in it. Wow. Yeah. So that's pretty cool. That's serendipity there. Yeah. So, but that's the thing. And I mean, all of this work in bringing these machines back to life, part of it is, you know, you gotta have a good glass or something that looks like a glass at the very least. Tim Kitzrow, John Popadiuk, Or, you know, it's worthless. You can't, it doesn't matter if it comes back mechanically. If you don't have a back glass or something, it's never going to be worth anything. Plus, you don't know what you're doing. Yeah, well, so I've been trying to, you know, determine, again, I'm going to ask a question that maybe somebody can answer. How people are recreating these glasses because I've tried a lot of different things and I'm actually meeting with a printer here in the near future to try to get these things printed directly onto plexi to see what they look like because I have the digitized images that I do but you know I don't know what other people are doing What's the point of doing that? I mean I know that people are, you can go on the internet and see that people are selling these things, but I'm not quite sure exactly what they look like or how they are and I don't want to sandwich these things between glass, that's not working for me. Got you. What's the issue that you have with glass sandwich? Well, for one thing, you got the pieces of glass that you have to buy are so thin to I've been working at a pinball studio for a long time and I see many teams that are I'd rather just, you know, find a way to get it on the back of the glass itself. Right. And I just don't know how to do that yet. So I read a book, there was a little thing I bought by Arcade Graphics, I think they're I'm a business now. But they used to do these things and so there's a lot of advice in that book. It's a little bit old now, but the problem is I'm not a printer so I don't understand half of what he was talking about. You know, these different types of material they were using. So I'm going to bring that with me when I meet these people. I want an economic solution, but something that looks good. I don't want to be cheap. Right. Just for the sake of it, you know. Yeah, well... I'd rather spend some money and get something that looks good. It's incredibly cosmetically important to have a nice backglass, so... Yeah. I can tell you what I've done because I've experimented a lot and... Okay. And I wound up using something sandwiched between two pieces of glass, but what I did... I experimented with all these different materials and I was working with a printer that was really happy to work with me to find something to do. They liked the challenge. That's good. It was really good. So what I wound up with, because I have one of those Chris Dade repros for my bounty. Okay. And he did great work, you know, getting everything lined up and so forth, but it comes in two pieces. James Bond, Figure out a game plan 1. You 2. Draw a line 3. Cut out the bingo card from 2 pieces 4. Line up the bingo card 5. Make sure it doesn't move AIRPLAY So, you have to cut out, of course, the bingo card from two different pieces, and then line everything up and make sure it doesn't move. It's exactly the problem we were talking about with the masking layer. 6. What I ended up doing was having a multilayered file and having them print it directly onto vinyl. Okay. And the vinyl that they used diffuses light properly. It doesn't look standing. This is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders, the Center for Autism and Related Disorders. You can caulk the glass to seal it and then you have a single piece and it's not super duper fragile. I mean you still don't want to be dropping it or throwing it around but it should last in a machine for a very very long time. Yeah, well that's what I noticed. I mean when you put the sheets together it seems like it's okay but by themselves they're too thin. Yes, well and especially for a bingo where they're super tall, you know. Right, right. That's a big piece of glass. Yeah, well, anyway, we'll see. There'll be a solution. I don't understand how these people, you know, I guess they still, do they still silk screen? Does anybody do that anymore or is it all with printers nowadays? Do you know? There are a few print shops that do silk screening of, on glass specifically. Yeah. But it's very, very, very expensive. You have to do a run large enough basically to justify the cost and be able to sell them. Otherwise it's just completely uneconomical for a single glass. But yeah, it's almost a lost art. And another thing that's an issue is with these games, the mirroring that they used. That's no longer available. That was outlawed. Yeah, I've heard you mention that before. Is that true? Yes. Why? The chemical that they used apparently could get into the water table or something. I don't know what the reason was, but they're not allowed to use that anymore, and so there are alternative formulas, but they're also incredibly expensive. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, well. I guess, you know, almost every repro I've ever seen, you know, doesn't have that anyway, and it doesn't really bother me too much. I mean, some people are really picky about it, but to me, the artwork is good, and the colors are good, and, you know, the light's coming through in the right place, and it's, I guess an original is always better than a repro, but that doesn't really bug me too much. I think there's a fellow over there in Belgium or something that's doing it. He's got some kind of a method. He's putting the mirroring on there. Have you seen that? Yes, and I've looked hungrily for more information on that because, yeah, I would love to know what he's doing and what chemical he's using specifically because, you know, if I could work with a printer here to do that, then that would help a lot. Yeah, yeah. There's one shop in my town that will do silk screening on glass. It wouldn't surprise me if there was one in Colorado there. I think this guy that I'm going to go talk to will do it. I guess my question was, you see people like they're going to do a run. I can't even think because a lot of these guys are doing flipper runs and things like I'm not much of a flipper player, but I was wondering if those ones were done silk screened. Yes. Still, they are. I have a repro pop it card back glass in my game. Okay. It's silk screened and it's gorgeous. Huh. Yeah. Well, I'll figure it out. Well, anyway, the bikini glass that I have is actually the one that is a print. I have the original, but I needed a new one, and so this is what I've done, but I'm always looking for a better alternative, and so I'll see what happens. If it works out, I'll let you know. Yeah, please do. I'm always looking for new techniques because as you know, that's the hardest thing, second I'm going to go to class. But yeah, if all else fails, if they're willing to experiment, have them try on a single sheet of vinyl and just see what you think about that. Okay. Because I think it looks pretty good. Okay, good. I'll try it. All right well Nick I don know how much time I have now but I sure hope that this will help somebody or maybe somebody will be interested And I be willing to you know put a little time in these things and get them at least to the point where they not basket cases Right. Well, I mean, I know how it is. I think people are, thanks to you and all of the publicity of the shows getting here, I think a lot of people are finding out about these machines and what great machines they are. I just think that a lot of people were just making fun of bingos for a long time, you know, like who in the heck would want to play them or what's the point behind them? I think finally people are trying to figure this out now thanks to what you're doing here. But I do think that there's still people that are just afraid to work on these things. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And frankly, it is a little bit intimidating when you open up the back of one of these machines for the first time and you've never looked inside. and especially if you haven't played a game so you don't know what it's supposed to do that's where you don't know if you know what's doing is why you're not and that's the advantage you have if you know if you'd buy from somebody that knows what they're doing instead of just some widow that has one sitting in her basement You can get a little education and that's a good way to start. So that's what I would be happy to help anybody with if they're willing to, if they want to take the plunge so to speak. I have a feeling that you'll have some takers. Maybe, I hope so. Yeah, I really do, because I just think these are fantastic games and the thought process that went into the whole thing. And, you know, I mean, I feel like us older guys that played these things when they were on location basically are, well, we're either degenerate gamblers or, you know, well, maybe we are just all degenerates. I'm not sure. You know, you didn't start playing these things because you were a boy scout, you know? But once you learn the nuances of these things and you start to play and learn and get into the techniques, it's just so fascinating. Just fascinating. So, yep, it's one of those things, you know, you do have to keep trying though. I mean, you're not going to get it on your first game. No, you're not going to have the big hit. No. Well, yeah, I had a I bought a bright lights from a guy and he told me that it was broken because the motor kept running. Okay, so I said, Oh, well, okay. So I went, I restored that one too. Tim Kitzrow- Thomas, Beck jerks me out this right not a belch Kerins getting brave hart I'm training his face on a burning They have a Dixieland there. Oh, do they? Yeah. Oh, well that would be... See, I have a friend that I grew up with, I've known him since I was seven. Mm hmm. And he lives in Roanoke, and he's my oldest friend, and I actually was in Roanoke about two years ago, to go visit him. And I'd love to go back. And of course then I'd have to go visit the pinball museum while I'm there. Oh yeah. So, but they don't pay off on the Dixieland, right? No, and I'm not... Too bad. I'm not certain if they have it working yet. I've been talking to the technician there a little bit. Oh, is that right? Okay, okay. Well, are you helping him get through it? I have been. I haven't talked with him for a few weeks, so I should reach out and see where he's at. Good, good. So, and then it turned out that I think I might just get out to Richmond at some point. I think you should. Well, these people that used to live right next door to us here moved and my wife is really good friends with her and she said, well, maybe, I heard her talking and she said, maybe we'll get out to Virginia and I said, where do they live? And she goes, in Richmond. I don't know if I've ever done that, and I said, I think I could do that. You know a couple people who were here. Yeah, I'd love to do that. I wish I could have gone to the show. I just hear everybody talking about how good that York show was, and I wish I would have been there. Actually, there was just no way I could get there this year. I've got some family issues going on. I hope to make it. Are you going to do another bingo row or is that it? I'm going to try to keep it going here. You're going to go? Good. I'm probably not going to bring six this year, but I'll bring a few. I'm trying to talk other people into bringing some. Good. I hope so. It sounded like it was a really good time. It was amazing. It was really great. Well, they have the show out here, but I suppose I'm going to have to... I really should bring a bingo or two to the show. I've never seen one here out in Denver at all. The Rocky Mountain Pinball Show. You ever been out here? No, I have not. Yeah, you really should take a trip out here sometime. Well, if you make it all the way to Richmond... Okay. I'll probably work something out eventually. Oh, there you go. Okay. We can meet in the middle of Des Moines or something. There we go. Yeah. Big bingo country there. You know, my brother used to be a professor at Drake University. But he moved from Drake to Northwestern. He was teaching at Northwestern. And that was in the early 70s in Chicago. And you had to, it was some kind of a weird law because pinballs really weren't even legal there then. As I understand it, if you joined a club and he was in this pinball club and he'd go play flipper pinball, he didn't know what he was doing. He wasn't a bingo player. I kept trying to get him interested in it and he just didn't want to do it. I thought that was kind of interesting that they made all the machines up in Chicago and they were illegal. Well, you've got to make life interesting and challenging. Well, you do. I mean, it's really nonsensical, some of the stuff that goes on with the laws and, you know, the problem, well, I guess the bingos probably didn't contribute to anything that would make them want to legalize them right away. I was so uptight about the one ball machines and everything that happened in the 30s and 40s. I don't know if you've probably covered this on the show before, but the bingos were
    48:41
    a way of getting around the law because they outlawed the one balls. All of those horse And you know, horse race type games, you know, Citation and Sunshine Park and I guess, I don't know, Turf Champ, they were precursors to the bingoes. But when they outlawed the one balls, then they came up with this idea that they could use five balls instead. And that worked for a while, I guess, until they caught on to it. You know, everything comes to an end and that didn't give pinball a good reputation. I mean, from what I understand, the stuff that was going on in the 30s and 40s almost killed the whole thing because the operators were getting really greedy and charging like a quarter to shoot one ball in 1938. Whoa, really? Yeah. And that would probably get law enforcement on you. I would imagine. Yeah, and people were...
    49:54
    Yeah, well, anyway. So it had a kind of a shady reputation. And of course the flipper came along in 47, but people still weren't differentiating. And then the bingos came along in 51, and they looked just like a flipper machine.
    50:13
    uh... and in fact i think that if you look at this makes me laugh every time i see those uh... bingo games with flippers have you seen those? yeah yeah they just skirt the law and it's like, geez what a waste and i don't think they work half the time i think they're just there to make it look like it's a flipper game so the things they did to try to trick the law is just Unbelievable. I mean, police men aren't that dumb. The law's not that stupid. They knew what they were doing. Well, yeah. The only way to get around it was to pay them off, you know, and that's what they did. Yeah, yeah. But you had to have the outward appearance. Exactly. Right. This is absolutely a respectable establishment. Yeah, well, I think the guy that owned the place that I used to play these things in Denver in the mid-70s was on the City Council. Oh, there you go. So, and he never really got any trouble. You know, nobody came in and gave him any trouble. So I'm sure that something was going on there. Imagine that. I didn't care. You were able to play. Yeah, exactly. So. So, Phil, we talked and you had mentioned something about a car as well. Oh, well, yeah. I have a 1965 GTO convertible, one owner. It's been on the cover of the National GTO Magazine. It's in good shape, original window sticker, original manufacturer's price, the original bill of sale, and a record book of every time this car has ever had anything done to it, I'm going to be talking about a pinball machine that I've been using for the last 50 years. And this car is going to be up for sale here, maybe not right away, but you know, I don't want to really go on about automobiles and a pinball show, but it's kind of interesting. I mean, you just don't see this kind of stuff. And it was my dad's car. So I used to drive this thing in high school and it survived me. Is there a record of every time you took it out? He may have written that down. I haven't checked. But I was careful. My dad told me to do something. I was scared of him. I'd do it. Well, people respect their fathers and I sure respected mine. I do respect them now. I was going to take it over to, oh maybe the Barrett Jackson auction down in Phoenix or Scottsdale at some point, but I'm not sure. It's going to be a while before I do anything. But thanks for bringing it up Nick. Yeah, no problem. I appreciate that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I remember some things sometimes. Yeah. Me too. Okay, well good. I guess I'm glad that we had this discussion because as I told you, the Broncos got slaughtered and this kind of took my mind off of it today. Happy to help. Happy to help. Okay, thanks, Nick. Thanks, Phil. I appreciate your time. Okay, very good. Talk to you later. Okay. Take care. You too. Bye.