Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Episode 151 – Hangin’ In The Pinbar

Slam Tilt Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Sep 25, 2020
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

New playfield supplier, JJP's Guns N' Roses October release, and Scorebit/board availability shake up the market.

Summary

Slam Tilt Podcast Episode 151 discusses multiple industry developments: Beehive Pinball, a new playfield reproduction supplier, is offering Stars reproduction and custom Stars 2.0 playfields ($700, sold out); Jersey Jack Pinball announces Guns N' Roses for October 2025 with unspecified major innovations; Planetary Pinball-approved pinballbasement.com launches new WPC board sets to fill Rotten Dog's supply gap; and Scorebit score capture boards become commercially available ($200-$300) with subscription pricing tiers. The hosts also discuss Pirates of the Caribbean, dream game themes, and technical details about restoration boards.

Key Claims

  • Beehive Pinball is a brand-new Stars playfield reproduction supplier that did not appear on Pinside or RGP before being featured on the podcast

    high confidence · Ron and Bruce discussing their discovery; Scott provided the tip. Verified on BeehivePinball.com.

  • Beehive Pinball's first run of Stars playfields sold out, including both reproduction and Stars 2.0 custom art versions

    high confidence · Ron and Bruce checking the website live on air; playfields listed as sold out with option to reserve next batch.

  • Jersey Jack Pinball's Guns N' Roses will ship in October with unspecified major innovation beyond Wi-Fi code downloading

    high confidence · Official announcement mentioned; hosts discuss possible innovations including touchscreen in lockdown bar and new toys.

  • Rotten Dog (Jim) retired from board manufacturing but the business shut down partly due to tight supply chains from China, not permanent closure

    high confidence · Bruce clarified rumors; Jim wanted a buyer with passion for innovation, not just someone to maintain production.

  • Planetary Pinball approved pinballbasement.com as a new supplier for WPC board reproductions

    high confidence · Direct mention; hosts reviewed product listings on pinballbasement.com live.

  • Scorebit score capture boards are now commercially available at $200-$300 depending on quantity, with monthly subscription tiers starting at $6 for high-volume operators

    high confidence · Hosts reviewed scorebit.com pricing and features; used at Pinball Expo for testing; works with most classic and modern systems except Jersey Jack.

  • A Pirates of the Caribbean CE sold for $4,200 in a storage unit auction after the owner failed to pay the storage bill

    medium confidence · Zach recalls an auction story; anecdotal, not independently verified.

  • Stern has had two price increases of $100 each since Jersey Jack released Wonka

    medium confidence · Host speculation during pricing discussion; not officially confirmed.

Notable Quotes

  • “Somebody is recreating Stern playfields... We're getting Stars playfields redone... and we have never heard of this company before.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ Early episode — Introduction of Beehive Pinball as a surprise new market entrant in playfield reproductions.

  • “Their first run is already sold out... I think their first run was of one unit.”

    Ron Hallett / Zach @ Mid-discussion — Humorous realization that the 'sold out' claim may be misleading if initial production was minimal.

  • “You're probably going to be their top marketing at this point, so you should like, get, like, a co-branding system going.”

    Zach @ During Beehive discussion — Acknowledges the podcast's influence on new vendor visibility in the pinball community.

  • “It's one mode and you have no actors and no call-outs... It's not a Pirates of the Caribbean game, it's just a pirate ship game.”

    Zach @ Pirates discussion — Critical assessment of JJP Pirates; indicates disappointment with theme execution despite initial excitement.

  • “I'm thinking $500 on each at least... Stern's already had two price increases since they released Wonka.”

    Ron Hallett @ Pricing speculation — Prediction that JJP will raise prices significantly for Guns N' Roses due to competitive and operational pressures.

  • “The problem is most of the stuff comes from China, and it's really been tight lately.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ Rotten Dog discussion — Reveals supply chain constraints as root cause of Rotten Dog's reduced availability, not retirement.

  • “The chip... is no longer available. And you can find it, but it's like a hundred bucks, the chip.”

    Ron Hallett @ Speech board discussion — Explains the technical necessity and cost justification for developing new speech boards for vintage Stern games.

  • “It's got full internet connectivity so it can also send you alerts, like operator alerts... You can interface this into a tournament system.”

Entities

Ron HallettpersonBruce NightingalepersonZachpersonScottpersonJimpersonCarl D'AngelopersonEricperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Beehive Pinball emerges as new Stars playfield reproduction vendor offering both OEM-accurate and custom 2.0 art versions; first run sold out despite zero prior market visibility.

    high · Hosts reviewed BeehivePinball.com live; confirmed sold-out status and $700 pricing; noted absence from Pinside/RGP before podcast mention.

  • ?

    announcement: Jersey Jack Pinball officially announces Guns N' Roses for October 2025 with unspecified major innovation beyond standard Wi-Fi code downloading capability.

    high · Direct quote: 'Guns N' Roses will be out in October... There's supposed to be major innovation coming in that game.' Hosts speculate on possibilities (touchscreen lockdown bar, new toys).

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Rotten Dog's supply constraints blamed on China sourcing delays, not permanent retirement. Planetary Pinball approves pinballbasement.com as successor supplier for WPC boards.

    high · Bruce: 'The problem is most of the stuff comes from China, and it's really been tight lately.' Jim seeking passionate buyer but not fully exiting. New supplier offers WPC-89, WPC-95, auxiliary boards.

  • ?

    product_launch: Scorebit score capture and operator management platform launches commercially at $200-$300 with subscription tiers; compatible with all major manufacturers except Jersey Jack; integrates streaming and tournament systems.

    high · Hosts reviewed scorebit.com pricing; confirmed testing at Pinball Expo; Carl D'Angelo using for streaming integration; monthly subscription $6-higher based on volume.

  • $

    market_signal: Hosts predict Jersey Jack will raise Guns N' Roses prices $500+ per tier (Pro/LE/CE) following Stern's $200 cumulative increases since Wonka launch.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.420

0:00
Uh, hello, can I, uh, hi, how, may I, uh, hey Beavis, what's that thing we're supposed to say? Oh, um, hey, I think it's, um, um, bunghole. Yeah, that's it. Bunghole.
0:16
Uh, do you want, like, some food or something? No, I want your money. Uh, will that be all for you today? Now! Empty the drawer! Uh, empty my drawer? I've got a gun, idiot! This is a robbery! Whoa, cool.
0:47
Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Hill Podcast, the show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett, here with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. Oh, my God, we got humongous news. Yes, we do. We also have a guest. I know. He is actually kind of, I think he's going to catch up to Timmy very soon, isn't he? He's our third host. I'm not putting Tim yet. Hi, Zach. I don't know if you have. You have to look at, did you look at a? You can look at slamfillpodcast.com and just search for Zach or Timmy, and you will find who has been on each episode. We do have a searchable website, you know. We do. Yes, we do. Okay. I'll be mentioned in half the ones I'm not even in. That's true. You're mentioned in almost every episode. 15 for Zach. Some of that must be not actually me on there, though. Yeah, that might be in the show notes. You've got to see if it's in the... Zach from Slam Tilt. Yeah, you know what? I need to go through all the old show notes and just change it to Zach from Slam Tilt so we can find it easier. Zach joins us. Zach. All right, this is episode 151 while Bruce is looking at that. Zach joins in. and wasting our time here. We got big news, Bruce. We do. We needed to record. Bruce got a hold of me on, what was it, Sunday? Sunday. It was a Sunday because there was some big news coming, and Bruce wanted to make sure we recorded so we could capture the big news. The essence of this news. The what? Essence. It's French. Oh, okay. So, Bruce, I'll let you say what's the big news. What did we have to get all three of us together for? Somebody is recreating Stern Playfields. Another person. We're getting Starz Playfields redone. Oh, you mean Starz, the official game of the Slamtail Podcast? Yep. This news was sent to us from our own Scott. Hi, Scott. Yes. Hi, Scott. He's a new Playfield supplier, and we have never heard of this company before. And you said you searched Pinsided, didn't even find their name? Didn't even come up. What? That I don't believe. How about on RGP? Was it on there at all? No, it was not. Really? So what's the name of this site, Bruce? It is Beehive Pinball, all one word, Beehive Pinball. They have two different versions of star play fields. So Beehive as in, you know, buzz, buzz, bees, bees, like beehive hairdo. So BeehivePinball.com. Yep. I'm at their site right now. Yeah, we got Stern Stars reproduction play fields. And then there's a custom art play field, Stars 2.0. Mm-hmm. What the hell does that mean? Don't know, but it looks pretty cool. Oh, God. That's going to offend people, I'm sure. Oh, of course it will. Yeah, yeah. Zach is on most now. It's got a woman riding a stars rocket. Yes. It looks like 60s, early 70s, maybe even earlier. They do pretty, like, period stuff. Yeah. They did a pretty good job of actually doing it in that style. I like the artwork, and it keeps the inserts exactly the same place. No, it doesn't. Yeah, not with that big rocket in the center. No, I'm talking about the other side, the side for the spinner and that kind of stuff. Everything else, they're all moved, too. Well, the inserts and most of the play field are the same, except for the center part. I agree with the center. I'm talking about the outer. No, those are moved, too. Aren't they? The ones in front of the right spinner, they're not in a single line. They're in, like, a zigzag pattern now.

Ron Hallett @ Scorebit discussion — Highlights Scorebit's broader infrastructure value beyond score capture, including streaming and tournament integration.

Beehive Pinball
company
Planetary Pinballcompany
pinballbasement.comcompany
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Stern Pinballcompany
Scorebitcompany
Rotten Dogcompany
Starsgame
Guns N' Rosesgame
Pirates of the Caribbeangame
Wonkagame
Slam Tilt Podcastorganization
Pinball Expoevent
Aliengame
Spaceballsgame
Scooby-Doo: Where Are You?game

medium · Ron: 'I'm thinking $500 on each at least... Stern's already had two price increases since they released Wonka.' Zach agrees both price increases and three-tier model likely.

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Critical reassessment of Pirates of the Caribbean despite initial enthusiasm; Zach criticizes lack of actor voices, limited modes (one effective mode despite 125 claimed), and missing theme authenticity.

    high · Zach: 'It's one mode and you have no actors and no call-outs... It's not a Pirates of the Caribbean game, it's just a pirate ship game.' Playfield praised but gameplay disappointing.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Discussion of technical restoration challenges for vintage Stern games, including Gottlieb pop-bumper board limitations. Zach designing custom CPU-based pop-bumper board with adjustable debouncing and timing control.

    medium · Zach: 'The Gottlieb pop-bumper board just uses a capacitor and a resistor... I'm going to make my own [with CPU] so I can set the debounce whenever I want.' Hosts discuss flipper voltage and timing measurement requirements.

  • ?

    content_signal: Slam Tilt Podcast's coverage effectively launches Beehive Pinball into community awareness despite zero prior online presence, demonstrating podcast's significant market influence.

    high · Zach: 'You're probably going to be their top marketing at this point.' Scott tips the podcast; hosts' live website review becomes de facto product launch.

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: WPC board reproduction supply chain transitions from Rotten Dog to new suppliers (pinballbasement.com); Jim Rotten Dog remains available for consultation; new boards copy existing designs without significant re-engineering.

    high · Hosts reviewing pinballbasement.com product list; concern noted about missing flipper relay on some boards, lack of heat sink on bridge transistors, and lack of visible design innovations from prior generation.

  • ?

    collector_signal: Pirates of the Caribbean CE sold for $4,200 in storage unit auction; anecdotal evidence of machine value in unexpected circumstances (blind auction, new-in-box condition).

    medium · Zach: 'There was a Pirates, actually. C.E. That sold for $4,000... it was in a storage unit, new in box, sitting there... went for $4,200.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Community wishlist discussion reveals Spaceballs and Scooby-Doo: Where Are You? as top licensing prospects; Spaceballs feasibility confirmed by Rick Moranis' recent commercial appearance.

    low · Bruce: 'Rick Moranis just did a commercial, so it's available... he's done custom call-outs in a game before.' Scooby-Doo preference stated for original cartoon series (1969-70) over later ghost versions.

    • 4:27
    And the ones in front of the drop targets aren't in, like, a T-shape. They're in a circle around, like, this nucleus circle shape. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Now, wait a minute. You said this wasn't on Pinside at all. Yet their first run is already sold out. I think their first run was of one unit. Yeah, maybe. There you go. They really, like, you're probably going to be their top marketing at this point, so you should, like, get, like, a co-branding system going. Yep, $700. Each play field is clear-coated and dimpled top and bottom, ready to install. $50 for shipping U.S. International customers, please contact. And they're all sold out both, but they'd be on the list to reserve the next batch. Okay, I'm already worried because they're sold out. They misspelled quote. International customers, please contact for shipping Q-O-U-T-E. That worries me. That's just one miss. If they did that, there might be misspellings on the play field. Well, that's already been done with other things, but we won't go there. Meteor. We already did that. So we really don't know how good this is. But we saw it in the official Game of the Star of the Slamtail podcast. So we had to mention it. We did. Also coming. What's new out? Also, with the news world, we have new boards. Jersey Jack. They said the new game's coming in October. It is. So. Guns N' Roses will be out in October. Yeah. I'm really glad to get an announcement of a game coming out later. Yes. Well, there's supposed to be major innovation coming in that game. Does anyone want to guess what the innovation is? It's got to be something more than it's going to be on the Internet. I'm thinking, how about a touchscreen in a lockdown bar? No, that's never going to happen. No. Yeah, that'd be just stupid. Yeah. No one would think of doing that. Nobody. Okay, what else were you saying, Bruce? You had something else? Oh, besides the Wi-Fi. I think the Wi-Fi is going to be a big thing for them. And downloading. I think downloading the code. They already do that, right? Like in the betas? The betas are doing that. But not production yet. Not production yet. That is correct. So I think that will be the big thing. And who knows, maybe new toys. But the problem is, I hope it's not like Pirates where they have all these great toys and then they've got to take them out. Well, they didn't show them yet, so. Yeah, that's true. They still have months to take them out. Yeah, they still have months. Months, maybe even a half a year. No.
    7:00
    To be fair to Eric, even the one toy that survived was still a creative original toy. Oh, it totally was. So he's got a good track record so far. He's got one for one. Because they've never made production.
    7:12
    Yeah. Even, like, just that one toy, I'd have to count as, like, at least two, because it's got, like, the moving cannon shot off of the toy, too. Do you think they're going to go up in price? Since Stern's been raising their prices, do you think JJP will increase their price for this new game? Do you think it's going to be the same as Waka, where they have the CE, the LE, and then the Pro, or whatever they call it? I think actually that went over better than probably Dialed In did with the missing camera on Dialed In that was taken out. What missing camera? On the Dialed In regular base. No, there's a camera. There's a move to a different spot. It's a move. It's in the top and it looks really bad. I know because our league has one. Remember, I mentioned this on the show. I thought it was a mod because it looked so bad. But then I was told, like, oh, no, that's actually, that's how they come. Like, really? But I think the other game, the newest game, Wonka, went over okay with, they sold a lot more of the bottom units. Yeah. And that was their first game that actually had, like, differences in the gameplay between the two, right? With Wonka Vader. Yes. So they'll probably do that again, I assume. Which I finally got to get. I finally got to play and actually get Wonka Vader. At a tournament. At League Night. I actually had League Night and I got to play Wonka. and got actually the three-nose. Were the flippers strong enough to get it in the Wonka Vader? Yes. Oh, easily. Okay. Yeah, I will say that was really. So it was a home model? No. No? It was on location? On location. And it was strong enough? Yes. Wow. The Wonka Vader doesn't take much speed to get into either. No. But it actually played pretty good. I got $4.2 billion on it for like the third or fourth time I really got this. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Billion? A million, sorry. Yeah, I'm about to say. Did you find some kind of new multiplier that I don't know about? Holy cow. Well, they should have added zeros to it. That makes it actually look like it's more fun. It's only bothering me about the scoring for those. Oh, you don't like the low scoring? Yeah. It bothers you? A little bit. Okay. I just don't like having a zero, no zero in the ones place. Yeah. I'm finding a low scoring. I just want at least one more digit. Yeah, maybe, you know, yeah, 10 million. Oh, I got 42 million. That would just sound a little better, you know. It doesn't have to be millions, billions, you know. A little more would be nicer. It does. They follow their batch sequence, though, with the, you know, one digit, of course. You know, that's kind of different.
    9:40
    Do they end their scores with a zero or they don't, right? Nope. You can get one point for slings and stuff like that. Yep. So not approved by Dwight Sullivan. No, not at all. No, no. But, yeah, so that should be coming out hopefully in October. Do you think, though, there will be a price increase? And do you think they'll follow the three levels?
    9:59
    Yes, on both. Yeah, each of them. Yep. How much do you think? I'm thinking $500 on each at least. $500 more? It's been a ways. Like, Stern's already had two price increases since they released Wonka. That doesn't make sense. You've got to look at it that way. Yeah, they've got two price increases of $100 each, so for $20. Yeah, I know. So, I mean, Jersey Jack's got to raise it up even more. And they've got to move, so they've got to pay that bill off.
    10:24
    They've got to pay all the movers for moving everything? Yeah, the moving guys. I think it was $500. I'm curious what Eric's going to come up with. No, I'm very excited, you know. I didn't like Pirates, but I liked some of the innovation he did. Yeah, I liked that he talked shit. I was at the reveal. I liked that, actually. It didn't feel like a white body. You don't like Pirates. Do you like the layout of Pirates, or do you have problems with that, too? I assume you don't like the code. I don't like the code so much. The layout, I like the old Bally outlanes. Yep, that's cool. That is great. I like that. That's a great thing. I don't like the out-hole, the kick-out on the bottom right. It looked like a Gottlieb. That just didn't do anything for me. The Tortuga shot, you mean? Yeah, like, you know, the big hole.
    11:13
    Just didn't do anything for me. And the loopable shot, if the machine's set up right, you can do it and you enjoy it. But most field machines are not set up right, so you can't enjoy that.
    11:25
    How about that left shot that just you hit it and then it just comes back? The left orbit. That's not really an orbit. It definitely feels like... It's broken. It should have been something else. Yeah. It's missing something. I hit it and I thought it was going to go up to something, and when it kept coming back down, I figured something was broken and it was supposed to go down a hole or subway or do something, but no, that's actually how it goes. There is a subway back there, but it has a diverter. Okay. Only sometimes. That's confusing me. It's not used enough. It's like when you start multi-ball, the ball goes in. Or if you don't make it up far enough, it'll just come back even though the diverter's open, and you won't know that you failed and not that the game failed. That's why. I'm easily confused. That's me. It's like they had that spot there, like, oh, we can put a shot here, and then... Is it worth what people want to spend on them now? No, I don't think it's worth what people are, you know... Is any game worth that much to you, Bruce? No. But they did have one. It was on pinball. It was some group on Facebook where somebody had a new inbox on a dolly on its side, horizontally instead of vertically, and it went on auction because it was in a storage bay, and the only thing in this storage bay was this pinball machine, and it went for $4,300 for a brand-new inbox. If it really was, because you couldn't examine it beforehand. It could have been an empty box. You mean pirates? Yes, there was a Pirates, actually. C-E. That sold for $4,000. Yes, because it was in a, it was almost like the storage wars. It was in a storage unit, new in box, sitting there. And somebody didn't pay their bill, and the place confiscated it, and it went for $4,200, I think, altogether. Okay. Yeah. Of course, the guy told everyone after the auction went off. Well, yeah, I wouldn't tell them. Yeah, that would be kind of stupid to say before. caution. Interesting. So, yeah. I don't know. I wouldn't pay. Would you pay $10,000 for that game, Zach? If I had $10,000, I'd buy an alien. Me too. I wouldn't mind a Pirates. I wouldn't mind a Pirates for $6 or $7. I'm not paying even $7 for any game.
    13:40
    Any game? $65 for a Pirates. Any game? Like if somebody slapped an alien in front of you and said, $8,000.
    13:47
    I think you'd find the money. I know you. You would find the money for Alien 3. Or if I found a great grand, I'd be splitting it with someone, probably. I'd be tempted at 8. But, like, that's like a hard, like, a Super Bear hard-to-find game, and it's Alien, and that's what it takes to make me maybe go to 8K. I'm still not going to 10K. I don't know. Does Zach have a dream theme? Pirates of the Caribbean. That's your dream theme? I love the first three movies. Oh, my gosh. And there's tons of, like, great lines and stuff, you know, for call-outs, except that they can't afford the actors. You know, and great actions that they can't show because they can't afford the actors. Now, Zach, if they did afford the actors, would you have gotten that game any which way? Like, originally, when that game was announced, and I was like, hell yeah, another Pirates. Like, I owned the first Pirates game, but also not having the actors or anything. And it's not a good game, but, like, I bought it. You know, and then, like, new Pirates coming out, and they showed the play field. It's got the cool disc. It's got the cool play field. It's a wide body. I'm like, hell yeah. Like, this looks exactly like a game. and then they're like, 125 modes and I'm like, hell yeah, I love lots of modes, you know, like, and then I saw the gameplay and I was like, it's one mode and you have no actors and no call-outs. Yeah. It's not a Pirates of the Caribbean game, it's just a pirate ship game. Yep.
    15:05
    Arr! Arr! Dream theme, actual Pirates of the Caribbean game. What's your dream theme, Ron? It can't be a movie because you don't watch movies. You know what my dream theme is. Everyone knows what my dream theme is. Why do you think it is, butthole? What do I start every show with? Dumbass. Not every show.
    15:24
    When's the last time I didn't start? Well, there are special occasions. Come on. I know. Just bust your balls. People will bring it up. People will comment. You know that. Edison Butthead. I didn't know Zach was that much into pirates. Neither did I, actually. That's one of the last movies I saw in the theater that I actually really liked. I probably like Pirates more than Ron likes the original Star Wars trilogy. Wow.
    15:49
    The second one I didn't really like as much as the first one, so I never saw the third one. I didn't like it the first time, but it's actually like the second and third are just a two-parter. Yeah, it's actually... You have to do them both to, like, understand it and appreciate it. Okay. So once I watched the third and enjoyed the third, then went back and watched them all again, I was like, okay, I get it. Does everyone know what my... What's my game? Is it ELO? No, no, no. No music. Oh, not a music one. Okay. No, not a music. Vivid video. No. That's a swankerama video. Oh.
    16:24
    I don't know. Isaac? I've mentioned it. Oh, Action Park? No. Where people get hurt and stuff. Yeah. The ramps, the balls just fly off the ramp and break things. It's part of the game. Space balls. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, that'd be good. Yeah. That'd be great. I don't think that'd be, like, if I saw it announced, I wouldn't be like, okay, I'm buying this game. But, like, I would definitely be interested. I would definitely be really, like, at the edge of my seat going, okay, let's wait, let's wait, let's wait, let's wait. Go! And Rick Moranis just did a commercial, so it's available. I know. It's available. And he's done custom call-outs in a game before. Mm-hmm. So it's a possibility. Possibility. A possibility. The other, uh, I'd really like to see a Scooby-Doo game. My wife would, too. That's, like, that was, like, one of my favorite games. But it can't be, it can't be, it has to be cartoon. It has to be cartoon. It has to be. Preferably the original cartoon, too. Yes. Which would be technically the, oh, it's Scooby-Doo, where are you? That was the original. Yes. The one where the ghosts are actually not ghosts. Where are you? The ghosts are all, like, investment bikers and stuff. Yeah, the ghosts are actually, they unmask them at the end and they're not really ghosts. Later on it got stupid where the ghosts were actually ghosts. And then they had Scrappy-Doo and it was really stupid. I remember, like, I used to watch the movies, and, like, I watched one movie where it was actually a ghost, and I was just like, what the hell is this? Except I was 10, so I didn't swear. I pretty much did the same thing as the kids. How is it a ghost? And then they're like, what was it? Could they meet the Harlem Globetrotters? Yeah. Could they meet the, oh, they have weird ones, like Mama Cass. Scooby-Doo and Mama Cass. Like, okay. I didn't know who that was at the time. They had the Three Stooges, I think they had one with. It's just, yeah. It got stupid. It got really stupid. Before I interrupted you earlier, you were saying new boards. New board sets are coming out.
    18:16
    Yeah, I guess Planetary Pinball has approved some supplier. They're called pinballbasement.com. And we looked this up. Let's look this up right now. I mean, so this happened because of Rotten Dog, right? Did you ever cover that on the show? Well, the rumors were he retired and the boards are no longer available. Bruce was telling me that's only partially true. Jim is retired, but he's still getting stuff. But the problem is most of the stuff comes from China, and it's really been tight lately. Jim's been trying to sell for years. He wanted somebody to buy his business, but he wanted somebody to have a good feel and a good drive for his company. He just didn't want somebody just to keep on making the boards and not doing any innovation or try to make stuff or try to repair stuff. Yeah, I think his site wasn't available for a while, so everyone just assumed he was done. But I noticed the site is here, but the boards were kind of drying up. Yes, and that's because of, as I said, because of China. You know, China. Yeah. So pinballbasement.com, they're selling WPC89 boards. I wonder what that means, the driver board, or let's see. I can't click on it.
    19:31
    Let's see. Okay, here we go. The driver board was used through 94, right? Yeah, WPC-89. I wonder if he's doing the S-boards. Let's see. WPC-89 power driver board, WPC dot matrix DMD controller, and WPC Fliptronics 2.
    19:47
    Fliptronics 2 wasn't on 89. That was only on, like, DCS, right? No, Fliptronics is every game after Abbots Fan. Abbots Fan was the only Fliptronics one. There must have been a few non-DCS in there. Yes, there is. There is, yes. So, I understand it was still WPC-89? Yes. and I noticed that their driver board doesn't have a flipper relay, which is going to be a problem for anyone using a non-Fliptronics game.
    20:09
    Oh, like T2? Yeah, like T2. Getaway? I've got a feeling there's something about that, but that's minor. Getaway is Fliptronics 2, so that would be fine. Yeah. Is it? Yeah, Getaway's weird because it's Fliptronics 2, even though technically it came out before Adam's Family, but it actually, because Adam's family had a really long development cycle, that's why it doesn't have, it has the hinged playfield and a Fliptronics 1, but Getaway, which came out before it, actually has the one that pulls out, the playfield pulls out, and a Fliptronics 2. But it has leaf switches, which is different. It doesn't have either of those. It has the digital voltage regulator. Yep. It looks like it's literally the same board. It looks exactly the same board, it looks like. It's got a switching 5-volt regulator, and there's no heat sink on the bridges, which is slightly concerning. Yeah, it is kind of, yeah. So it's not like a re-engineered one, like, I don't know if Rotten Dog was, but I'm sure some of them, like, they used MOSFETs instead of transistors on the new ones or something, but I assume it still uses TIP-102s. I believe it's supposed to be like a copy. We got WPC95 MPU boards, auxiliary 8 driver board, WPC power driver board. Where's that on us? It's on the same side. No, you've got to shop under each section of the boards. Oh, they have the auxiliary 8 driver board. Yeah, so did Rotten Dog. I needed one of those for a while, but I didn't want to pay money for it. Yeah. So I got a free one. 16 opto switchboard, ball trough emitter, trough opto board, high current driver board, motor EMI board, coin door interface board. You've made a pop-umper board, right, Zach? You were just as, I know you were getting annoyed working with Gottlieb pop-umper boards, so you're like, you know what, I'm going to make my own. Yeah. The Gottlieb pop-umper board just uses a capacitor and a resistor to do a timed pulse each time they're hit. I'm like, there's no debouncing or anything, and there's no adjustments, so I'm like, I'm just going to stick a CPU on there and just run it and be able to put my own logic in there so I can set the debounce whenever I want and turn it on for however long I want, you know, and adjust it, tweak it as needed.
    22:29
    But do you think that would work with my pathetic Iron Man slingshots? Depends on what the issue is, but possibly. If it's a timing issue, it can fix it. Yeah, it's not really a timing issue. It's more of a it's 20 volts and not 50 volts issue. How do you know it's not a timing issue? Because you really think changing the timing will make any noticeable difference. Could. You never know. Unless you've done measurements with a logic analyzer to actually see how long it's pulsing for and what the reaction time is. Wow. A logic analyzer. Yes, you have to. Yeah. You can't think of all these people who were at the remakes of the Williams games having the different flipper time without actually measuring the flipper time. Exactly. and other things that are also... Actually, I've heard... Somebody thought the displays weren't as fast on the remakes as they are on the originals. You mean like the reaction time? Yeah. From you hitting something to a chihuahua? Yes. That seems believable. Yeah. There's a whole other layer of software going on there. Exactly.
    23:29
    I just sent you two pictures. Oh, my. They're not dirty, are they? No, not at all. Okay. And did you send them in chat? No, I sent them on Facebook. Facebook Messenger. Oh, who hates the new Facebook? Oh, I totally hate it. I went back. I actually... Wait a minute. You're still able to go back? I'm not. Yes.
    23:50
    I've always had the new Facebook, so I've just been suffering. That's terrible. I like to punch somebody. It's gotten worse, too, but... Yeah, I like to punch somebody. Because something as simple as being able to put my post in chronological order is no longer possible. Which is just ridiculous. Now, with the old one, it was possible, but you had to go in and select it every time, whatever. But now it's just not even possible. So I have to use the app if I want to actually see things in order. So, Bruce, you're showing me something here. Whoa. It's a soundboard. Oh, no, it's a speech board. Speech board. For old Stern games. Yes, it is. The only reason I know that is because I see the game selection. It's like, wait a minute, those are all speech games. No, no. It's actually, look, there's two extra ones on there. Two extra? Well, there's custom. And? I've never heard of that game before. the game called Gamatron. Which we played that before, I think, on the show, the clip. Yes. That's the people who made the clip right, and they're trying to do other stuff. So they are actually on the second revision of boards. They had to use a bigger pre-driver because it wasn't strong enough. And they're going to be using my Gamatron as the test board for Gamatron. Nice. So for those who care, the certain games that had speech were Flight 2000, Freefall Lightning Split Second Catacomb and Orbiter One. And the problem is the chip, the custom chip that is used for the speech is no longer available. And you can find it, but it's like a hundred bucks, the chip I've seen the latest pricing for. So this board is hopefully going to be under that and sound exactly like it. Even if it's a bit over that for the whole board. Oh, yeah, exactly, for the whole board. It's still brand new, so hopefully you'll have no issues. But the local guys from us, they're going to use my game as a test spread, and they're looking for volunteers because they asked Scott, and Scott only has Flight 2000. So if anybody has a free fall, I know somebody with a lightning, so we're good with that. But a split second, a catacomb I just got rid of. Contact Bruce on Facebook. Contact me on Facebook. Because Bruce never checks our email. Not lately. I've been busy. I'm trying to find a job, goddammit. I'm unemployed. I'm working off the government. But today, I did get offered a nightmare thing. A nightmare? Well, before you talk about the nightmare thing, there was another board that became available. Which is what? Which is very interesting to me. The Scorbit. Are they actually for sale now? Yep, the Scorbits are finally for sale. How many are they? They're like $200, $300, I think. and it was it works with every single game except i think jersey jack because they're doing their own thing oh so you can use it on any stylist it doesn't matter like you could use it on old stern you could use it on a bally gotley but even modern sterns ocds i think so yes spike two i think spike two was included they're doing some kind of thing that he intercepted so they're getting it right from the game. But the thing is it has full internet connectivity so it can also send you alerts, like operator alerts and that kind of stuff. There's basically two parts of it. You buy the board and there's also a subscription service. They have different pricing tiers. The more you get, the less it is. And it's cheaper if you're an operator.
    27:16
    Which I thought was pretty cool. So if you're an operator, it's less. But this is what they were using at Indus. They used it every year. they were testing it there big time, where they had it in every game. You can interface this into a tournament system, so when you're done, like a qualifying entry, the score is just there. Boom. And you can use it, I know Carl D'Angelo, hi Pinball, hi Carl. He uses it, he integrates it into his streaming, his Never Drains and his streaming software, so if there's a match going on, you can see the score at all times, even those games that don't show the score for long periods, it'll still show up. Pretty cool. Yeah. So it's scorebit. The price is, oh my god. Oh, you look at it? I can't look at it because you have to sign up to look at it. Oh, that's ridiculous. You can't sign. That's ridiculous. No, no. Go to scorebit.com. Buy scorebit. Go to buy scorebit. It says, do you have a scorebit account? Yes, I do. You gotta log in. If you don't, you have to sign up before you can find out. Let's see. ScoreBit pricing. Here's the subscription pricing.
    28:27
    Here it is. It's $300 to $200, depending on how many you get. So I would assume it's $300 unless you get a bunch of them that's discounted. By the way, it's just Googling ScoreBit pinball pricing. Oh, well, I'm going to go on their website. I am on their website.
    28:43
    I didn't have to log in. It's right there. Internet's a wonderful thing. What's the difference between the $200 and the $300? Well, I'm assuming $300 is if you get one, and the $200 has a little asterisk that says discounts available based on quality purchased. So I'm guessing you can get a shit ton of them. You know, I have 30 games, and I want one for every game. I'm assuming you can probably get it at $200 a pop. I mean, that's what they're hoping for for the operators, I'm sure, is just, like, integrate them into your arcade from every game. Yeah, that's why they said the subscription pricing is a monthly cost per license. once you get to like a really high amount, like $100 or more. It's like $6.
    29:22
    Yeah. There's different pricing depending on operator or collector. And it works with, it says, works with these manufacturers, Spooky, Stern, Bally, Williams, Gottlieb, Sega, Data East, Capcom, Williams, Bally, and Stern. Hmm. I guess the only reason it doesn't work with Jersey Jack is because are doing their own thing, part of their innovation. So, yeah, so there you go. Today, somebody contacted me and said, hey, do you want to put together, back together a machine that this guy bought? It's just like, you know, okay, let me go out and check it out. The guy's like, I'm home today. Come on over. It's a Data East Batman. Oh, God. Oh, not that bad. Okay, so I get there. And half the play field, the upper play field is, he has it like half together, half not. Unfortunately, the ramps are all on there, but underneath the stuff is all missing. So every wire guide is missing. Missing. Doesn't even have it. Every ball lane, missing.
    30:28
    Is this a lot of playfield wear, too? It probably did. It was touched up. I saw a person on Facebook just earlier tonight, like, hey, I need the ball guide for the Oral Pit of Money. but like this playthrough was trash there was no paint no this one has paint it's just not done well you know it was done okay you know good from far far from good okay so yeah so he's like yeah I need you to I'm looking I'm trying to find these guides on anywhere like if anybody even looks you know I was like so the guy's like well what do you want to do I'm going to tell him I cannot do it because I can't put your game together and charge you all this money and you still can't play it.
    31:16
    What I'm going to do is I'm going to sell this game and I'm going to buy you another Batman and I'm going to charge you $4,000. What you want is a Batman 66. It's a far superior game. You'll like it much more than this one. No, there's actually one on eBay. Sorry, on Pinside for $1,700. I told him, buy that one because the money you're going to put into this one is not worth it. There's a Batman 66 for $1,700? No, Batman, David E. Oh, sorry. $1,700. Buy that one since you have such a good, you want that one. Then part out the other one. And you'll probably make just the amount of money because the back glass is nice on it. The boards all work on it. It actually boots. I was like, just do that. Get it over with. You'll make your money back, and you'll get a better game. That's all ready to play, you know. You might have to drive to St. Louis. Who cares? It's better than anything else. Some people care. Yeah, some people care. I had the same issue. Someone brought me a flash, and they're like, hey, can you fix this for me? And I'm looking at every board is bad, the displays are bad, the playfield is where, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, it's going to cost you, to pay me to do all this work and replace all these parts, it's going to cost you $7,900.
    32:31
    You can just buy a working flash for $7,900. It'll be in better shape than yours. Yes, this is Flash. This is Steve Ritchie's highest production game. There's 19,000 of these things. You're not going to have trouble finding them. Yes. And yours is not a good one. No. Does it actually tell about the other repair we had?
    32:49
    Which one? The one at my house. With a Dremel. Which one? With a Dremel. Oh, yeah. Oh, God. Okay, so this week I purchased something. Guess what it is, Ron. You remember? I used to look at it, and you saw the picture. Oh, Countdown. Yes. Bruce bought a Gottlieb. But it is one of the approved Gottliebs of System 1. It's one of the approved or approved?
    33:18
    Approved. Approved, okay. So I got this from one of my vendors, who I deal with a lot. Great guy. I grabbed it, brought it home, and I didn't even power it on, you know, myself. You know, he showed the time that displays work, but I brought it home, and I'm putting the connectors back on, and I'm like, boy, these connectors don't even stay on. Wow, that's not good. So I left it. Zach comes over. Zach comes over every other Friday to my house, and then I go over to Zach's either every Friday, and we repair back and forth. So Zach came over, and I go, what do you think the problem is? And I pushed on the connector, and it just fell right off the board. Yeah, and then I looked at the connector, and I'm just like, half of your pins aren't there. Yeah. The entire half is supposed to press against. It is gone. And the other half are green. So that's a little acid damage. So halfway through doing the connectors, which I now have the proper tool I was very happy with, so I was able to pop those out, Zach's like, I better pull off this board.
    34:21
    So he pulls off the CPU board on Assistant 1, and what did you see, Zach? Every pin on the bottom side of the board was just completely corroded. So how did we fix that, or try to fix it? Oh, we tried to use the magic Dremel brush.
    34:37
    Courtesy of Nick Schell. And we tried to Dremel the connectors back then. And I did. They were all a shinier, blackish-green. Yep. But still didn't boot. They were not shiny. One of the connectors wasn't even plugged in, and it was corroded. I don understand how that could even happen But it did It was bad So Zach brought over two other boards One did work and it booted up and we had sounds out of it and everything So I know the game is mostly there working. Needless to say, Zach, the flip board is on its way. Yep. So is this the Corroded Countdown? Is that its name? It's Corroded Countdown. Because we have the Freedom Firewood, so this is the Corroded Countdown. I want the Flipboard, which is all in one. The Flip, the Pascal. F-L-I-P-P. Oh, okay.
    35:30
    It has the power supply, the CPU, the driver board, and the sound board, all in one. Although I doubt that sound board is as good as the original. They say it is for that version. For the later versions, you have to get a different sound board. You have to use the... Really? That's the opposite of what we're expecting, because, like, the later versions have a CPU is you can just emulate those and get the proper sounds. Yep, they say it themselves exactly. But this one is analog, so I would think it would be different. Yeah. I guess they just embedded literally the same circuit. It's only three tones anyway, so it's not really hard. Yeah, but you've got to get the tones right. I know. Well, we'll see. But you can still use the old one, too, if you wanted to. On my countdown, I had one of the Lissy boards, L-I-S-Y, and it was still using the original sound board, and all the sounds sounded wrong because the Lissy board was pulsing them for a different amount of time. Oh. So, you know, Ron laughs at the logic analyzer. I went in there with a logic analyzer, hooked up to the pins, and actually timed out the original board versus the Lissy board on how long each of the pulses were and how long the pauses were, and then I adjust all the tunings to match up. Dare you laugh at the logic analyzer. Yeah, you need to get one. You mean, is it different than a logic probe? Yes, completely different. Oh. Is that the thing that's got, like, sine waves and crap? No, that's an oscilloscope. Oh. What the hell is a logic analyzer, then? It's a third, completely different thing. Oh. It basically, it records the signals, but only digital signals, just up and down. Not analog. It's counting ones and zeros. Yeah. But it can just record for, like, five minutes or something, you know, so you can just, like, you can hook it up to, like, the address lines and just, like, see the entire waveform across all 10 address lines on your CPU and really dig in there. But I just use it for measuring timing on stuff. So that board, guess how much that board is?
    37:25
    All in one run, since you've probably never heard of it. Well, Pascal's been out for a while, right? This is not a new board. Okay. But it replaces all these boards. All those boards. $200.
    37:36
    $410. That's as much as a game should cost. Shit from Europe. That's as much as a game. That's more than most games that go with engine cost. Yeah. It's a totem. It is a totem. Yeah, that's a correct game, but this is a good game. Yeah. If you found a Sinbad, Ron, you'd probably be doing the same thing.
    37:56
    I'd rather have a countdown. Of course. Everyone wants a countdown. Everyone wants a countdown, but you want a Sinbad. Sinbad, it has the same rule set, but a little more interesting play feel, I think. It's not symmetrical. I love symmetrical on this one.
    38:11
    It does have the terrible plastic spinner, though. I will say that. Oh, it's terrible. It's terrible. I just want to lose. We didn't finish the news, Bruce. Oh, God. What else we got? We forgot something? Well, a couple things. Okay. TPF, Texas Pinball Festival, they did at least, they announced, they made a statement that basically said if it gets to the time around Texas Pinball Festival and they're still not allowed to have gatherings over a certain amount or you still have to wear face coverings, that they will postpone it until the next year. Ay, ay, ay.
    38:47
    You're not going next year. Well, at least they're not calling it off. But just think about it. So if they have it in March of 2022, that'll be three years between shows. Think about that. That's what happens when you postpone twice. It's three years.
    39:03
    All right, Bruce, enough. We've held off on this. Our trolling has to end. The big news. What's that? We're in a game. Yes, we are. I love this. Finally, people listen to us, and finally there is them to the right person. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Raymond Davidson. Thank you, Raymond. We are in Avengers. And on the right mode also. You're welcome, Bruce. Loop champion. No, combo champion. Always has been wrong. Oh, that's right. Is it combo champion or loop champion? It's the combo. I thought it was combo. Is it combo? We will confess. It's one or the other. It's either combo champion or loop champion. I'm going to look real fast because it's on our Facebook page. Raymond was at the Silver Ball Saloon. I just said, you know, if you put STP there for Slamtail Podcast, everyone will think you just mean Stone Temple Pilots because you're from Seattle anyway. Exactly. That way they won't think you're putting us in there. Combo. Combo, okay. Which I do combos too. Is there a loop champion? I don't know if there is. I thought it was just combo champion. It is combo. I mean, if they give someone else a loop champion, there would be trouble again. Yeah. But if you put the stern to a 10 letter, it spells out Slam Tilt.
    40:18
    Yeah. That's your favorite term, right? Slam Tilt. Exactly. And the best is when I posted the picture and there's a, what's his name, showing off the game. And there's our name underneath it. It's like free advertising for our website. Slam Tilt, baby. We're in a game. So have you ordered your Avengers yet, Bruce? Not yet. I'm waiting, hopefully, for IFPA discount. Come on, Gary. Come on. So you're waiting for the Stern Rewards Program, or as most people call it, the Elwynn Rewards Program, where you just wait for whatever Elwynn game comes out. And pray that it will be there by December so you can use the discount in the next month because he does a game every year. Didn't they just add a game to the IFPA rewards? Did they? I think they did. Oh, was it Stranger Things? I thought they were Stranger Things a while ago. No, I think it was Stranger Things a while ago. It must have been Turtles then now, right? It was Turtles. Sorry, it was Turtles. Really? They added Turtles already? Yep, Turtles is added for both Premium and Pro. They might have a few spare Pro Turtles sitting around. Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Now I think they're going to have a lot of them. Or really, what happened is they announced Avengers, and then they got 1,000 calls canceling the Turtle Glowers. Exactly. So now they had to get rid of these. Yeah, for those who don't, The Stern Rewards Program is something that the IPA does where you can get a discounted Stern game if you are top 1,000 in the world. But they're not eligible for the rewards program until they've been out for a few months. Yes. So usually whenever an Elwynn game comes out, the IPA is inundated by people asking when the game will be added to the program.
    41:57
    So that's a good thing. So the Turtles will not be available until mid-2021, supposedly. But I doubt that. I think there'll be plenty of pros out there.
    42:08
    They are behind. They cannot crank them out fast. I wonder what, in their heyday, in full capacity, they were supposedly doing like 60 or so a day. What do you think they're doing today?
    42:20
    I'm probably thinking half, 30. 30? I'm thinking 30. Okay. I'm thinking half. I think half at 40. Of course, we can't find out the answer. Now, even though we're in threats with people who could tell us, they will never tell us. Yes, we are in threats. We don't abuse our... No, they don't tell us because they're NDA'd out of their minds, baby. I know, but I would never ask them either because I... I wouldn't ask them. They wouldn't tell it.
    42:44
    Oh, wait a minute. I got one more news item. I thought we were done. I'm going home now. I wrote it. What did you do this weekend, though? Did you do anything Monday?
    42:55
    Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. I wrote it here. Okay, where is it? Deep Root Reveal. I didn't think they were putting out a game this month. Oh, yes, we did put out one of the four. What? What did you just say? We put out as one of the four companies that was going to put out a game. We put out, it was going to be P3, Avengers.
    43:18
    We thought Deep Root, since they put a date out, and then we thought Jersey Jack. Jersey Jack went to October. Unfortunately, Deep Root got beat out by Dutch. I know we always bust on Dutch, but you know what? They're actually making games very slowly, very, very slowly, but people are slowly getting games, which unfortunately for them is more than we can say for Deep Root currently. Dutch Town has one and a half games out, if you count Brighter Pinbot. No, I don't. Let's give a little background for our listeners, in case they're not aware of the Deep Root story.
    43:53
    Deep Root as a company is founded by our buddy Robert Mueller, who I like because he likes to talk trash. Yes, I think you definitely have the voice now. I've done, you know, brother, we're going to make innovative pinball, dude. Everyone else sucks, brother. You know, I've done the wrestling thing because he has said some really crazy shit through the years. They were formed, what, two years ago? Probably a little over two years ago. Two years? A little over two. I think it's three years now. It's getting close to three years. So Robert Mueller wanted to make his own pinball company, and he has a lot of money. and he paid and paid and paid and got the all-star team of designers.
    44:37
    He got, well, Nordman until he left, but Barry Osler, John Norris. Yeah, Gottlieb, baby. John Papaduke paid off all John Papaduke's vidware people and all his debts, which is insane. Instead, he was going to innovate and change everything. The pinball is stale. No innovation. They were going to innovate a deep root. It's going to be a whole new ballgame. and he's been talking that shit for almost three years now. Talked it as much as last week or two weeks ago. Yeah. So at 2019 Texas Pinball Festival, they had all their stuff around there. You were supposed to release that day. Well, yeah, they were supposed to release, which they didn't do anything. The five days of the deep root. Take one. Yeah. Instead of that, they end up saying, no, next year. Next year. So 2020, we will have the five days of deep root. Yep. Okay. Then COVID happened. Just before. Yep. And I think at first people were expecting, well, okay, they're going to announce something soon after that. But they didn't. Another six months passed. And they finally started a Facebook page. I don't think they had one. They had no social media presence until like a month ago.
    45:48
    And they started doing this cryptic little message. And eventually it became this message that basically says 9-21-20. So September 21, 20, BD before Deep Root. Yes. So. Is that actually what the BD means? Yeah, they actually said that. They actually said that's what that means. Of all the things to actually announce officially, you know, not like what time of day the announcement's happening, but they announced what BD stands for. So, yeah, they had no time of day. The original plan seems to be they had six people go there to see the games. several pinball ambassadors, if you will.
    46:31
    Three of these, I won't say all their names, but three of these ambassadors happen to be in our Clusterbuck thread. They're a private chat with all of us. But they are NDA'd out of their minds. Yeah, they are. We don't ask for anything. We have no inside information here, I guess to say that. It was funny that how three of the six are in our home. That is so weird, yes, they are.
    46:51
    And I guess the idea seemed to be they would have them come in, film everything, show them all the new innovations, etc., etc., and then on Monday they would show this video, announce the games, pricing, etc. That seemed to be what the plan was to be.
    47:13
    However, I guess when these six ambassadors were getting the tour and started playing the game, some issues came up. They've been very vague on that other than technical issues on Raza happened and also some other thing or things that they agreed were showstoppers, that being Deep Root.
    47:37
    So they called off the reveal. And man, did they get blasted for that. Well, I kind of had a problem that they weren't announcing anything. They didn't say like, come see us at our website. Come see us on our Facebook page. look for something from us. And then some idiot skunked everybody and said, oh, come to this page. Yeah, some guy put a troll, was it YouTube or Twitch? I don't remember. It was YouTube. Yeah, it was a video with a countdown. Yeah, and everyone started thinking that was the official thing. That was the official countdown because it was going to be at noon Eastern. Like, okay, that makes sense. Yeah, that seems like when they would do it and then nothing happened. Then he said, ha ha, five minutes, I enjoy it. Like after the five minute thing, like, ha-ha, and then closed the whole thing off. So everyone was getting grumpy over that, and then all of a sudden, like a half an hour later, there was this post from Robert Mueller saying, we have all these problems, you want to read it off to him, the post that was. Yes, I will read it first. It's here right on their deep root. Hold on, are you going to do it like Hulk Hogan? Because you've got to do it, because that's all he seems like he can, his excitement level. I will do it as Robert Mueller just because. I'm a roast Hulk Hogan. Oh, that's going to be tough. Is there such a – that'd be harder than doing Hulk Hogan.
    48:55
    You only did Hulk Hogan perfectly last time. We're just doing this because he really has talked a lot of shit. He has brought this upon himself, unfortunately. He talked more shit a few days before. Yeah, I don't know how you – Referencing like a Jody Dankberg comment from Stern about innovation or something. It's like, we've accepted the challenge. Like, okay. It says, well, you know, brother, Deep Root Pinball spent years redesigning the pinball machine from the ground up with countless novel approaches. But, brother, on this past Saturday, we had hoped to host a launch event with six well-known pinball personalities. None of them were us, by the way. We didn't even get invited. Boo! Everyone got invited except us. I would have went down, but of course, we've never really given Deep Root much of a thing, except for partnering with Steve. Yeah, well, I've given him killer Hulk Hogan impersonations. I know, you would think, like, you'd be... They should have hired you to, like, reveal the video. Due to technical issues and lots of feedback from our staff. For the past three years, we've been in the top three or four for the voting for Twips each year. We have? I know, stupidity. Go ahead. We have? I didn't even know that. Yes, we have. Wow, you keep tracking that stuff? Due to technical issues and lots of feedback from our guests, it ended up being more of a beta event. That's weird, brother. We are grateful and thankful. I think it was an alpha.
    50:25
    For the pinball personalities and valuable feedback and involvement in refining our platform to be the best it can be. The result is, brother, realization is we're not as great as we thought, brother. Not as we thought, dude. Sorry. We're already working hard to fix the technical issues and implement our guests' feedback. So the only right decision today, brother, is to postpone the public release of our platform and our first game, Raza. We hope you agree that releasing a well-engineered and fun-to-play Raza is in everyone's best interest, dude. We hope you'll be taking your vitamins and saying your prayers and getting ready for pinball innovation here with G-Proof, brother, because we hope to update you that during this process, we remain deeply committed to delivering the highest quality of gameplay and innovation to our players. We thank you for your continued trust and patience, dude. Thank you, Mr. Mueller You know, brother, we're going to come back We're going to innovate, we're going to kick ass, brother So, after this came out The entire rest of the day was just Pinside bashing the shit out of people Oh my god, it was terrible I saw a picture at 6 o'clock at night I have never seen this issue This level of bashing for anything Ever, and it's more It's like, damn They haven't taken anyone's money yet No, they haven't taken anyone's money yet But he did talk a, he was just below the shit level of Dutch. The shit show level.
    51:48
    So, so, today, which is, well, I'm giving us away here. We're recording on Tuesday, September 22nd. The body's almost cool. Mm-hmm. Oh, God. We're poking it. We're seeing it. We're still alive. This week in pinball. Hello, Jeff. Hi, Jeff. To be fully transparent, they are a, Deep Root is one of the sponsors. Yep. So they released a bunch of information on a lot of stuff that was going to be announced that did not end up being announced. Because shortly after this announcement, a picture was leaked of the Raza cabinet. And by the way, Raza stands for Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland. Which was shown last year. Yeah, which was at a show last year, the prototype. So this was the last prototype. Yeah, it's actually like a... Still apparently not finalized. Yes, that's the part I don't get, but we will go through this in detail here. This is the Deep Root episode. Enough trolling our listeners. This is what you're tuning in for. We know it. So, cabinet in the back box.
    52:56
    Deep Root cabinet... I can't do this as Hogan because my voice will go by the end. Deep Root cabinets will have dimensions similar to Williams Valley. Valley Williams. And the general shape of the cabinet is standard. So standard side. With side and front areas and a standard coin door. The cabinet will be built with high-grade, laminated Baltic birch. Did I say that right? Baltic birch? I think I have. And have reinforced joints with a proprietary. Try it again. Proprietary. Yes, thank you. Proprietary. He's correcting me on a word I really suck. Hybrid dovetail and special adhesive process. Stern. They will have two types of cabinets. First, Arcade Edition, which will have a, I have no idea how this is pronounced, Cylon style?
    53:45
    Cylon style grill. I don't know what that means. This cabinet looks more standard with the familiar hinge bar linking the back box to the main cabinet. The back box has a panoramic wrap bat-lit, bat-lit, bat-lit? It's not bat-lit. Back-lit artwork. It does look cool. It contains a 24-inch ultra-high-res display in the Scion style. Ultra-wide. Okay, now I have a problem with this. Hold on. You have problems already? Further down in the article it says backlit side art panels that come on the extra model were due to arrive at DeepRope this week. I think those are the lower cabinet. I know, but still, how long have you known? You've had six extra months? It is weird that this was a reveal and stuff was still arriving. Yeah, that's the problem I have. It's like they were not prepared. Did you say de-throat, by the way? It sounded like. I think you did.
    54:43
    I think you had a Freudian slip there. Yeah, de-throat, whatever. You did. The second type of cabinet is the. Okay, so second type. Okay, second type of cabinet, but it comes in two different editions, it looks like. The X edition and the extra edition, spelled with X's. As in S edition and an XTRA edition. The floating is either X edition or the extra edition floating back box.
    55:14
    The backlit panoramic wrap floats above a floating back bar with two vertical support columns, which when I saw this thing, I thought of Aftor. Yeah, Aftor, right. Has anyone thought of Aftor? I instantly thought of Aftor for those who don't. That's the Wico game that had, it was like metal back box with metal supports holding it up. I wonder how that game plays.
    55:36
    What is setting up that game like? I know if you hit it in the pop-up, it stays there forever. They actually had to do a bulletin. They had to modify something because it would go in the pop-up and it would just never come out. It would just sit there, yeah, it would just sit there. It contains a 24-inch ultra-high-res display, which I think the other one did. Ultra-wide high-res. I keep screwing that up. Ultra-wide high-res display. Sounds like that's the same exact screen multifurzions. I don't know why I say it twice. Because it sounds good. All models feature a proprietary hinged assisted lift and drop glass frame and lock bar seal. In other words, it looks like the Bally ones. The Bally, except for it has a... Like your nippet. You had nippet, right? Was it nippet or hydraulic lifts on it? Yeah. Hydraulic lifts on it. Yeah, so it's like the Bally one with hydraulic lifts. So what happens when hydraulic lifts fail? You have to lift by hand. No, no, not even that. When you're like, sometimes the hydraulic lifts fail and they slam to the ground because the gas before the hydraulics go out. And they show a picture of it and they have a note, this is not the final version of this feature. Again, if this was the reveal, when are the final versions of the feature? If you were going to be selling this, that's the part I couldn't understand. Inside the cabinet contains two power supplies, a PC and components, optional up-fired speakers for 4.1 audio option. More on that later. A custom subwoofer enclosure, an amp, and an optional shaker motor. Deep Root also has shared they designed active airflow to minimize fan noise from the power supplies and PC CPU. Hear that, Spooky? Hear that, Stern? At least Stern's only is every once in a while. The spooky one is constant.
    57:25
    Toppers. All games and models will include a capped connector socket on the top of the back box, which allows drop-in topper attachments, which is the same as Stern, providing electrical data, audio, et cetera. The topper is kept in place via pre-drilled screw holes, just like Stern. There are three options. Hold on. Can I pause? Pause. In this picture below, we're on This Week in Pinball. How many people are lowering this head? Two. Three.
    57:56
    It's two. So when they're lowering the head, what's in his left hand on the one guy? Is it a magnet or is that like a wrench that he's trying to hold up at the same time? Man, you are getting way too in this. Well, how many times do you, when you lower a head on your pinball machines, When you lowered a head on a pinball machine of a Duerstern, how many people do you need to lower it down? I think it's just for the picture, man. Are you going to say, like, it needs two people because it's so heavy? I don't think. I think you're overthinking it, Bruce. Well, I want to. I mean, also, like, if you were one of the six people allowed to see the Revolutionary Pinball Machine, are you just going to hold it with one hand while you look behind it? Yeah. Well, you would because you do. Yeah, but that's why you weren't invited. Yeah, that's why, because Bruce, that's why we were invited. There are three options for the cabinet side panel art. Okay. You can get the vinyl base wrap, common to most modern pinball machines, with an additional gloss coating. Direct, I still, I feel like I should be saying this differently. Direct print on the wood with pin armor coating, providing high gloss, hammer tested protection. Sounds like basically Spooky's Butter Cab. Mm-hmm. Backlit, double-printed, PETG, lighted side art panels are featured on the extra limited edition games. Some other available options. So it sounds almost like they're going to have... Three levels. Well, yeah, but it also sounds like you can almost mix and match these levels, like you're going to have a build-your-own-game type thing. Which is nice.
    59:34
    Standard glass or anti-reflective. Fingerprint-resistant glass. What is that? we're going to have, like, super HD glass for 500 bucks a pop now. Additional GI lighting to the underneath of the glass frame for variable diffused lighting of the playfield area. That sounds cool. Is that, like, its own fin stadium lighting? I mean, if you've already got, like, the whole side rails hinging up too, like, it's going to be really easy to just put a strip of lights there and you won't have to remove them every time, like, you have to do anything. That sounds like a really good, obvious idea. 4.1 audio option. More on this below. Let's see what the tour group thought of what they could talk about. The tour group saw some, but not all of these features. The lifting glass top worked smoothly. But was not the final version. We did not see the lift even more smoothly. Exactly. We did not see the Cylon-style grill. I hope I'm saying that right. It's not Cylon. It's Cylon, yeah. Ceylon style grill with the panoramic wrap backlit artwork, but did see the floating back box with the panoramic wrap backlit artwork as pictured above. The backlit side art panels that came on the extra model were due to arrive at Deep Root this week. What? So the extra model that we saw had placeholder vinyl base wrap for the sides. So again, reveal. Not only do they not have the stuff, they don't even have, like, prototypes. of the stuff. So weird. But, whatever.
    61:09
    There's plenty of bashing to go around. No, we have more. Come on! No, we're going to get to the innovations. We're going to have new innovations in bashing. Some of this stuff is cool. I mean, it looks cool. We'll see how it goes. Now, another thing I noticed, when you look at the... Let's go up to the second picture with Steve in the picture, playing the game. I'm still at the... I know, you're still talking over the thing, but let's... Oh, the first picture. Sorry, the first picture with Steve showing the next thing we're talking about. Did you see what's on the right-hand side and by the right hand on the touchscreen?
    61:41
    It says MagnaSave. Yes. Stern. So, in other words, their MagnaSave button will be in the proper place. Is that what you're saying? Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Make me the proper place. Well, it's better than – actually, look. If I can keep my hands on the flippers, that's a great thing. Okay, but what we're saying is the MagnaSave button is not necessarily a button on the side of the cabinet. No, it's not. It looks like it's on the pin bar. A pin bar? What's a pin bar? The pin bar. The most intriguing innovation on a Deep Root pinball machine is the pin bar. The pin bar is a horizontal screen on the lockdown bar area of Deep Root pinball machines and comes standard on all Deep Root machines, regardless of the title or model. The pin bar displays a ton of resources and information about the game, including animations, timers, a shot log, more on that later, scores, and multipliers, recommended next shots, and more. It also serves as the start button and the menu where you can change gameplay settings, diagnose issues, and log in under your Deep Root account on any Deep Root machine, whether it be in your home or on location. Okay, so let's go over the picture that we see here. Before we do that, I need to read, this is the actual, I have to read this because this. Deeper description. Yeah, because this is, this needs to be read as Hulk Hogan because. Okay, so hold on, give me two seconds, hold on, give me two seconds, hold on. While he's getting two seconds. Because this thing, I think Robert Mueller wrote this just because of the way it describes this innovation. Well, I didn't even realize how long this is because I just like read the first few paragraphs. I didn't either until I just read this, so I might have to cut you off. I'm not reading the whole damn thing. I'm just going to do the first paragraph as we wait for Bruce. He's getting prepared. He's good. Go with that. Okay, we're going to do just the basic paragraph and the basic bullet points because neither me or Zach realized how long this actually was, this marketing thing. I just want to talk about the things that we do see on it. Go ahead. This is Deaver's description of the pin bar.
    63:58
    Said by Robert Mueller, i.e. Hulk Hogan. Well, you know, brother, the pin bar is the most powerful revolutionary innovation ever to be added to a pinball machine, dude. It takes the modern touch display, used countless times a day on our smartphones, tablets, laptops, and kiosks. It creates a permanent blank canvas for us to expand pinball with infinite possibilities, dude. It links the physical world to the digital. It opens doors to nearly endless new ways to interact with your pinball machine, brother.
    64:26
    Are you excited yet? I'm fucking excited. After reading that paragraph. We want to challenge the last few decades of pinball, that were obviously not innovative, by changing from a habit of walking up to a deep root machine and saying, where's the start button, to walking up to any non-deep root machine and asking, where's the pin bar? The pin bar's development took years, with methodical consideration of thousands of engineering and GUI design concerns to make sure if we were going to tie a touchscreen to a pinball machine that we would get it right the first time, dude. Some of the considerations that follow show how much engineering had to go into adding a touchscreen to a pinball machine. We made sure the aspect ratio and size had to be perfect due to the hand position and apron, brother. Matching aspect ratio with back bar to minimize photo and animation scaling, brother. Durability and impact analysis and length of life of screen. That's going to suck when it dies if the start button's on there. How are you going to start a game? That would kind of concern me. Ease of replacement without a technician, dude. Increasing ease of viewing screen information during play without having to look up and away at the back bar. Keep existing expectations and habits of touch interactivity from other devices like phones, dude. The millennials are going to love this pin bar, brother. Keep screen content simple and uncolored with the ability to add more for power players. So power players could add more information. I kind of like that. Basic mode. Okay, the power player, they can put all these shot multipliers and all the other crap that I would never look up on the screen. Put the entire info right there. Yeah, yeah. Like, if you want it all. So if this was on, like, Pirates, you could have all 30 characters or whatever, all in this, whatever. All 30 modes, or if it was Hobbit, what, 31 modes. Agility. No, not agility. ability to start a game almost as quick as a traditional start button, but not quite as quick, but add extra flexibility and options. Signal what to touch, how to touch it, and then when not to touch by preconceived expectations and visual intuition.
    66:23
    So there you go. There's more, but it's too long to read. Obviously, this is one of the main innovations of really plugging pin bar. Is it going to shock you when you hit the wrong thing?
    66:36
    It's going to teach you when not to touch. Probably not. The touch doesn't say bad touch. When it says the pin bar is the most powerful revolutionary innovation ever, ever to be added to a pinball machine. That is Robert Mueller. He had to have said it. More than flippers. Yeah, more than a picker, display, you know, audits, jackpot, anything. This is the key. I'm wondering, I just noticed this, the picture of the pin bar. Yeah. Are the flippers supposed to be offset?
    67:10
    Yeah, I think they had a little issue there with the flippers. Alignment or someone had a, or the flipper might have been on its way down or something. Or maybe, yeah, because he's leaning against that side. The one's leaning, he could have been leaning on the button. But what this is, is in place of the lockdown bar, there's a much larger lockdown bar, which is okay because you don't need to see the apron. No. So your dashboard wizard has six pages, which is system, testing, game plan setting, Rasa settings, support, and statistics. Game plan settings? Is that the Roger Sharp mode? What is that? No, gameplay settings. Game play. Sorry. Game play settings. And then each one in between that, like testing out switches, solenoids, lamps, general illusion, general illumination. Let me try this again. General illumination. No editing, folks, this week. No editing. And it's even got a little of the X on the upper right, like to close the window. So if you're used to touchscreen crap, you're all set, which I'm sure millennials like our buddy Zach here is used to touchscreens. Oh, yeah. So what do you think? You are the target audience here. Of the test menu? Of the test menu. Shut up. So, I mean, of this kind of, like, would you look at this? If this was sitting next to, say, a Stern and you saw this next to it, would you think, whoa, that has to be, like, a higher model or more advanced piece of machinery? or I am going to play this over this turn. Part of the main reason that Pat Lawler invented the super pin in the 90s was just to make a game that looked different than the previous games. And then, like, Sega went to the rounded back box, you know, again, to make it clear this is the new game. It's not one of those other games. So anything like the pin bar or the weird back box that floats or whatever, like with the wrapping sides, all that is going to do that same signaling, which I think is probably pretty valid signaling of you've got 20 modern sterns of Raveau and you have this thing.
    69:04
    Okay, does anyone see the issues that I see with this? Oh, God. Okay, Bruce, what are the issues you see with this? Okay, first, most games are located at a bar, restaurant, that kind of stuff. What do people do with their drinks? Oh, they're going to put them right on top of this. You got it. Yes, but they don't. It's got seals and stuff. got a seal. They note that. Exactly, but the seal, still, what happens to a bar seal when you It's a veteran seal. It's an innovative seal.
    69:39
    And what also happens when you have touchscreens that get dead spots? You replace them. You swap out with no tech needed. But the problem is still cost. Well the other issue is I believe the start button is on this thing It takes a little longer to start the game so it looks like it going to ask you crap That was the weirdest mention of like you can start a game almost as fast as a button Almost as fast. You noticed that, too? Almost as fast. So we're telling you. You've got, like, a giant, big, floating, pulsing button that says start a game right now. Yep.
    70:11
    Call it quick start. They can trademark that, too. Put a TM next to it. In our innovative new quick start button. So what they're saying is, you know, instead of glancing up at the screen that nobody looks up at to see things, you can look down to see all the information. Tutorials, teasers, trailers, what's next, or suggested shot genie. And, like, it's nice something like Highway Games having the screen right in the play field. Like, that's really nice. So, like, this is actually closer to the flipper than that. It is literally, like, right next to the flipper. Yeah, you know what I thought of when I saw it? Atari.
    70:49
    Yeah. The early Ataris, they put everything in the apron, which were huge, huge aprons. So the score displays were in there. All the information, credits, it was all in the apron. And that's kind of what I thought of when I saw this. Yeah, but it says accidental spills. Guess what? If you're an operator and you spill something, the customer spills on it, it's getting in the cabinet. And that's a bar of steel that's even thicker. Let's see how features of Pinbar, let's see how fast I can say this here. Unity-based GUI framework, high-res, ultra-wide, high-res. Wait a minute, that said twice? Okay, I said it right. High-res, ultra-wide, high-res screen. Almost doubles the available screen space. 10-touch capable surface, durable and easily replaceable, up to 5-panel play mode layout, role-based settings, profiles, access hundreds of settings in a couple of taps, login savings, loadings of profiles, data, shot logs, scores that roll with the player so you can save your stuff. It's probably going to be a lot like your Rush games. You log in, save all your stats. That's cool. Virtual keyboard for inputting of settings, profile information, virtual buttons that control play field components like Magnesay. And action buttons. Action buttons. Oh, God. Virtual action buttons. Make selections during or maybe instead of hitting an action button, it'll actually show a little map of the play field mini map and you hit the button of the ramp. You want to put the play... You know, instead of bashing the TIE Fighters via the button, it just puts 50 TIE Fighters... You have to hit them. Flackable. Yeah! That'd be awesome. Yeah! Virtual buttons that control playable components. Make selections between or during gameplay. Number of players. Settings. Skill shot. Shop. Score. Store concept. Inventory management. Pause. Continue gameplay. Tutorials. Teaser. Trailers. For new games. What's the last game that actually had a trailer for the next upcoming game? Danny used to do that all the time. Yeah, and Sega. Bring that back, folks.
    72:46
    What's next for Suggested Shot Genie? Customizable shot logs, score and leaderboard, achievements, news, ads, ads.
    72:53
    Custom content. You can put this account 100 bucks off your game, but it's going to display ads. Or maybe ads for the location. Like, did you get a beer at the bar today? Did you try our wonderful hamburger? Or I don't know. Set up an install wizard, maintenance screen, support, operations and tests, purchase games, or additional content. Wait a minute. So you can purchase more games while you're playing the game.
    73:14
    Or picture like you could order a burger while you're playing, so they're brought to you. Yeah. I like that. Remote operator access, remote operator audits, full interactive touch video modes, push updates, can change the mode or rule set of the machine with a quick reboot. Reboot. I don't know what that means. Like if you change something, it's a quick reboot. That's what it can do right now. In the future, it'll be able to. The future. Future features. Unlock lock bar. So you hit a button and it unlocks the lockdown bar, I guess. Virtual buttons for persons with disabilities. That's cool. Stop start of in-progress games on different machines. Pause button. Adjust difficulty level of rule set. Load saved game state. Apply language translations. Social media integration. Oh, no. Poster score on Facebook. Right here. I got three likes on my game while I'm playing it. I got wiped out by the game while playing it.
    74:11
    Play against the same shot log. That's good. Video support call. See, they steal that from us. We trademarked that. Multiplayer remote play. Multiplayer video chat. Note, Bruce, that the steel and lock bar on the cabinet lock down into the cabinet and steals protects the pin bar from accidental liquid spills. This is the one thing I heard about before the game release, that all this stuff was going to be on, I didn't know what the name of it was called, pin bar, but I heard whatever this was, all the data would be coming through this display for logging, you know, instead of the buttons on the pinball machine. So I heard about this. This is the only thing I was really excited about. I wanted to see the technology, and I think this is pretty good for technology-wise. Did you say something positive? Positive, because I am so sick of going into a Stern machine, brand new one. Oh, getting the old menu? And still getting the old menu interface. You're literally using the SAM interface. SAM? This is actually going back. I'm being nice to them, Bruce. I'm saying White Star. Yeah, White Star had the three buttons, though. They added the fourth one, so it was more like Williams. I feel like when they used to have the Jumbo DMD and the Segas, they actually had more information than the Monster. I do. Everyone has later. They actually regressed from the mid-90s. Yes, they did. They have three buttons, and then they added the fourth one to be like the Williams games that came out before them. That's an innovation right there. Yeah, innovation. They innovated what Williams already did. But I was excited about this part. And if it does work the way it does, this would be great for operators. It will work the way it does, because that's the nature of how it works. Unless they don't make it.
    75:53
    If it works the way they claim it works. Yes. Thank you. It looks super cool. I know there was a lot of comments on Pinside about the lockdown bar and the edges. The edges of the lockdown bar look a little on the sharp side. So this had issues, I guess, when they were doing their tour group. Something about, like, the touchscreen not reacting properly or something. Yeah. Yeah, and they had a film crew there because I can see them in this one picture. So I can actually see that was true. They had a film crew there because I can see them. So, the other thing that Mr. Mueller talked a lot about was the playfield that you can hit with a hammer and it won't dimple. I mean, I can hit anyone with a hammer.
    76:37
    Playfields are built with Baltic birch ply, and all playfields come standard, deep roots. Oh, come standard. Oh, with deep roots, this is their term, pin armor. T-min.
    76:50
    Protection coating. So, pin armor. You know one of my favorite TMs was actually Capcom? You know what their instant info was called?
    77:01
    I forget. What was the name? Pinfo. That's right. I just love that. I do when I saw, like, pinfo. It's so lame but goofy. And it's just perfect. I just love that. Pinfo. I wish someone would use that. Someone, please bring pinfo back. I did like one thing about the underneath the play field. Oh, I know. So, we'll talk, so, yeah, pin armor is the protective coating. The bottom of each playfield will come with printed component information.
    77:32
    Just like Gottlieb did. Color-coded. Just like Gottlieb did. Different than Gottlieb. It's RGB. It's better than Gottlieb. That's innovation.
    77:39
    Although, interestingly, I've heard that the reason that Gottlieb did that wasn't actually, like, for serviceability. It was for the assembly line. Yes, it was for the assembly line. so it would be faster. So, like, they didn't actually, like, do it all, like, oriented towards you. Like, there's a lot of stuff, like, you wouldn't care about as someone making the game or, like, information you'd like to have that's not there. You know, so it's mainly aimed at just making the assembly easier to do. Do you want me to train the workers on what to put in the way they can just look at it?
    78:06
    So this one, hopefully, is more consumer-oriented. It looks cool. I like the color code. I like the... You can just see where all the mechs go on Rates of Playfield. It's pretty damn cool. Yeah, I'm gonna... Let up the game just by looking at this.
    78:21
    Okay, so they did a demonstration with a 16-ounce hammer. Oh, my. Is that a big hammer? We found my 16-inch. I'm sorry. God. Then they did a 650-gram pinball drop.
    78:35
    Is that different than normal pinball? And they left dents and craters in the normal clear coat, but they didn't leave dents or craters in the pin armor. If we could have only seen that on, oh. Well, the VIP group that was there had concerns regarding the quality and look of the pin armor coating as it... It is currently not smooth. Yes, okay. So the VIP group... More like orange peel. Orange peel is terrible to look at.
    79:01
    Okay. Oh, my God. The first is saying is the VIP group had concerns regarding the quality and look of the pin armor coating as it currently is not smooth, but more like orange peel. So guess what? People are going to be not complaining about your ARP quality. They're going to be complaining about your clear coat quality. Well, here's my other issue, though. Robert mentioned that this is an early version of the pin armor. How long has he been talking about this? How is this an early version? This should be the final production version of this thing. It's like, no, everything's going to be done Tuesday.
    79:35
    Is it like Wimpy? The hamburger from your other play? No, no, no, it's like Star Trek. Hey, we need the missiles for Star Trek. Is Scotty the engineer? We need this. Can I be smooth by Tuesday? I can't do it, Captain. I don't have the power. But he does it using dilithium crystals and warp dry or something. I guess the play field does not feel smooth. Let's see. Brief game play later with pin armor. The ball did seem to roll normally.
    80:02
    So basically the pin armor works but may not look good. But it's not the final version. Somehow. How long is he been talking about this? That's just the part. You know, and not a lot of companies do this, too. Even Stern will do this. Like if they have a reveal and during the game the ball gets stuck or something like that, they'll be like, it's a prototype. It's a prototype. They'll say something like that. You know, every time something weird happens. It really was a prototype. They've only been working on it maybe for six to eight months.
    80:35
    Yeah. And they got hung up. This has been two years. Two years. At least a year and a half. Yeah. Audio. Deep Root Games comes standard with 2.1 audio system. So just like a stern, you need two speakers in the back box and one underneath, woofer, with speakers located in the back panel. Deep Root also offers an upgraded audio package referred to as the Aural Envelope. Oh, well, I'm trying to get it. Envelope. Jesus, I'm screwed. Aural, is that Aural? Aural, yeah. Where's the TM? I don't see a TM next. You would put your – I'm sorry. Oh, stop. I don't see a TM next to that, so they didn't – They didn't trademark that? Which includes a – well, I did see a TM next to the pin armor, and that's got to be trademarked. I thought it was. That has to be trademarked. I think that's because the one that said TM next to it was taken directly from the marketing material. This other part is from the article. Marketing material? Where did they find marketing material? It was provided to This Week in Pinball, so they posted it. Yeah. That's the only place I've seen it. This oral envelope includes a full-range 4.1 audio system. It's included standard with the extra edition. So basically, it looks like they have three versions, just like CERN. Yeah, they all did. And I remember he said he didn't like having different versions. Yeah, yeah, he said that. Everything was going to be the little prize for the same. Yeah. That changed over time, too. This is where the two years and three years of BS is totally... The 4.1 audio configuration adds two up-fired mid-range speakers on either side of the coin door, which, according to Deep Root, channels sound using the natural position of the player's body to the ears. So it's actually by the speaker panel. It's funny, somebody on Pitside, when they showed that, They showed a picture of a mouse in a round that had this humongous wolfer where the coin door would be. I remember that one. I remember that because that was at Expo. I know the owner. You know the owner, too, I think. Yes, I do. That was the corn from RGP. He'd always have these crazy custom games he would bring in and usually some kind of sound upgrade. He had that, like, frigging centaur that made me want to buy a centaur instantly when I heard that thing. It was so obscenely loud. It sounded incredible. Let's see. Electrical, Deep Root. Okay, so it goes more into tech stuff. It's boring. I won't go into it. This isn't the boring part. This is the more, like, you know. Well, for us, it's not boring. But for, I think, if I'm reading specs, it's going to bore people here. I was impressed that they, like, are actually mentioning all this stuff. Okay. Deep Root Pinball shared the following regarding their electrical system. Deep Roots electrical system is custom-made to deliver power and data to a demanding, innovative pinball machine. The power system starts with a custom power supply delivering 12-volt, 24-volt, and 48-volt rails. Why the hell do they have 24 volts? I don't know. And a separate ATX power supply for the PC. For the PC. God, I can't talk today. The 48-volt rail is distributed to each of our control boards, so they're using no boards like everyone does now. Well, where a separate 12-volt and 5-volt regulator is used to provide additional power to individual high-power MOSFET driver boards. This allows us to power outputs with 5-volt, 12-volt, or 48-volt on demand. Board placement is meant to be space-efficient to allow for ease of serviceability.
    84:07
    With a system of distribution boards, cables, and assemblies to eliminate nearly all soldering required when assembling the machine. So, basically, it's lots of node boards. It's all pre-soldered before you even get to it. Yeah, it's all node boards, all connectors, all pre-made to be easy to assemble. So like everyone else is doing at this point. Let's see. I'm trying to think of some of the more interesting stuff here. We offer dual Wi-Fi dongles to deal with the demanding internet online connectivities of the Omnichannel Worldwide Access. What does that mean?
    84:42
    Come on, Zach. What does that mean? Is that like a newer term? Let me read that again. We offer dual Wi-Fi dongles to deal with the demanding internet online connectivity needs of omni-channel worldwide access. Yeah, I don't know why we need two dongles. Our pinball games are meant to be always on in order to take advantage of modern technology and online connectivity.
    85:09
    Sleep mode, when not in use, just like most other devices in your home, reduces electrical and power when not in use. So basically, yeah, it's more like a modern device. It's a smart pin. Yeah, so you like hit a button or on it and it probably wakes up. Which is nice because it takes like a minute to boot modern games. Yep. Yes, it does. This stuff was interesting. One person setup. Yes. Available for Deep Root machines or in a universal retrofit attaches to the bottom of the cabinet. So, per Deep Root, Our one-person setup convenience changes a safety issue into an easy, safe way to set up or break down your machine. All Deep Root machines come with the attachment plate already installed on the undercarriage of the cabinet. The attachment plate should be compatible with a majority of other standard body machines. I don't really understand a lot of this stuff. Once attached to the attachment plate, the appliance, what appliance, can be extended to guide the lowering of the front of the machine from the seated position, lifting the back of the machine to install and bolt the rear legs and vice versa. Once done, the application can be stored underneath the machine or removed. Like a cart. It's a cart. Now, hear me out on this. I think I have a term for this. We can call it the PB helper. Yes. PB helper, PB lifter. I think it's what it is. I think I'm going to be suing Robert Mueller. It's the PB Tilter. He took your idea. It's literally the PB Tilter, just with, like, built-in support and connection points. And then you can add it to another machine. Okay. Do I want to be drilling into my new machine from another company? And hopefully it works. Isn't that awesome, Bruce? Well, wait a minute. Is this some kind of thing, appliance you buy that you can use to set up specifically? Yes, this will be an add-on. We'll be coming with all Deep Root machines and then add on to anything else. Well, what's coming? not the actual thing that you can use to lift it up, right? No, no, but there's the count on the bottom of the machine. The retrofit that attaches to the bottom, but what do you use to lift it from the bottom then? The appliance. What appliance? The appliance. That's the part that's throwing me here, so there's another piece. The appliance is extra. The plate is on every Deep Root machine, and it's going to be demonstrated at the virtual pinball expo coming up. So if they haven't had enough time to get everything else done, Let's just get this ready. They have another month. What is the virtual pinball expo? I haven't heard of that. That's the pinball expo. They're doing virtual. So that'll be a seminar.
    87:41
    Yes. Like California Extreme did that, right? Yep. Yes. Exactly what it is. So hopefully it's on Twitch or YouTube or something. They're streaming all the seminars. They're going to sell an appliance that will actually help you get the legs off and on by yourself. Yeah, they never say that, though. They say the appliance. It doesn't mention how to buy the appliance or what the appliance is. Oh, no, it's not ready yet, but, you know, it's going to be there. So basically the appliance is the PB tilter. Yes. And what they have is they've attached the thing that the PB tilter can hinge on to lift up your gear. Yes. Basically, that's what this is. It is literally a tilter. So it sounds like you just put it into this plate. And then, yeah.
    88:20
    Assisted leveling. Deep Roots Assisted Leveling Guidance prompts you whether to raise or lower each of the four legs to put the play field in the factory preset 6.5 degree level position via the pin bar. Now, hold on. I got a question about this. If you look at the one picture that was released, it doesn't look like it's at 6.5 because the front legs were taller than the rear legs.
    88:46
    So, but it looks like you can, so the pin bar has a leveler. Yeah. There's like the pin level app or something on iPhone. It talks to you like it's just built in. Yeah. Special foot locks make adjusting the legs easy, so you don't have to use the turtle approach, and with my shitty back, I would appreciate that, climbing under and lifting the machine with your back. I'm really curious to see these. That, as an engineer, it's going to move the machine. They're going to loosen.
    89:16
    Oh, we have another trademark. Pinpod. Trademark. The Pinpod is the perfect storage and moving protective cocoon for your prized Deep Root Pinball machine. It is made of strong wood ply, water-resistant, collapsible, truckable, and forkable. Its metal latches provide vertical and horizontal strength through falls, tips, and items resting on the top. So, in other words, if you want to bring your new Deep Root game to a show and are just not trusting the shrink wrap and the way you would normally wrap a game, you literally have this crate thing that looks like it breaks down. It's like a, and probably, I assume it looks like it folds down to a smaller size. Yeah, it folds down to a smaller layer. We're talking Jetson shit here. Now, hold on. I have a problem with this. Oh, God. You have a problem with everything. What's your problem? They designed this, but what are they selling?
    90:11
    Pinball machines. Which need to come in boxes. Which need to come in this. The thing is, you're selling a pinball machine. They should have been working on this more than the pin pod and the pin filter and everything else. get the fucking pinball machine out first. Then you bring this out later on. Well, what happens if they come with these? Who cares? This is why you're a lapping stock after three years. I guess so. Okay.
    90:37
    The saying, you've spent all this engineering time on this. Shouldn't you have been putting it towards your pinball machine? Well, they have innovations coming in 2021, tubers. Oh, fuck me. First, the AE system is expected to be enabled for all machines equipped with the DeepRoot, I think that's the Aural Exciter or whatever it was called, the DeepRoot Full Range 4.1 audio system, which will auto-mix audio channels in loud and quiet environments to ensure the most important sounds reach the ear. Second, it will add ambient light auto-adjusting to all new games, providing an auto-balancing of light above and on the play field. I wonder if there'll be a Dwight Sullivan setting where just you can't see the game anymore. as well as the other backlit cabinet pieces to the environmental ambient light. It'll be better than that, Ron, because it'll detect when you're using a headlamp, and it'll just turn up even more. Oh, God. Third, we will add haptic feedback. What does haptic mean?
    91:36
    The rumble in a game. Oh, feedback around the lock bar palm area for games in 2021 to provide even more important field gear and gameplay. Who cares? I want to see a pinball machine. Okay.
    91:54
    Yes, they have an ecosystem, the Pinball Rapid Development Engine, or PINRDE. How many trademarks do we need? Oh, lots of them. They're going to capture, record, and timestamp nearly every event that happens under the glass. This will allow DeBrute, or give DeBrute volumes of data to enhance online offerings like shot log and scoring. It also insists with diagnosing or anticipating issues with the pinball machine. So your pinball machine will be fucking sentient. It will start talking to you. You suck. You can't make a single shot. Sell this game. You suck. And it's just like, hey, your flippers are weak. The ramp shot is going too slow. Rebuild your flippers, idiot. You suck. You suck at pinball. Player operator settings. Stop shooting the ramp. The flippers are too weak. The operator needs to rebuild them. Please contact the operator. Here is his contact info. If you hit the presser button, we will call right away for you. We can put on a video call on the pin bar.
    93:01
    Yeah, right on the pin bar, a video, like a Zoom call comes up. Yo, rebuild your flippers, asshole. These are great ideas. You're laughing, but this is totally awesome right here. I am worried about it becoming sentient, though, and start talking to you. You are no Keith Owen. You suck. You've gained 10 pounds while you've been playing. Start losing weight, asshole. It starts like it looks at you. Wow, you've been losing weight.
    93:31
    Wait a minute. I haven't even started a game yet. How do you know so much about me? Oh, my deeper pinball knows everything.
    93:38
    Omnichannel. Omnichannel allows you, I'm assuming that's trademark, allows you to access your scores on DeepRoot machines and log into any DeepRoot machine anywhere in the world, even if it is not connected to the Internet. There you go, Ron. That's what it means. Pin access, which I assume is also trademarked. Well, no, it doesn't have it as PM. Oh, no. Our mobile iOS application, Pin Access, has a mobile and easy way to take the DeepRoot experience with you everywhere in the world. Not only can you log into DeepRoot games, but you can edit and view community profiles and view leaderboards, scores, achievements, and ratings. Pin access is also a handy way to review frequently asked questions and support materials in health videos. And to order a Deep Root game, too.
    94:21
    Hey, I'll say one thing, man. They are shooting for the moon here. Oh, my fucking God. They win. Oh, ow. The most important part. The most important part? What? The most important part is? The game. Yes.
    94:37
    Okay. the three model system that they weren't going to use that Stern uses. So this is basically the three model system. Yep. Of course we are. The same that Stern uses, but they call them different things. So Deep Root is announcing the three editions that will continue for all Deep Root games over the next few years. Here we go. So they'll have the Arcade Edition is the budget version, i.e. the Pro. The X Edition, which has the floating back bar aesthetic and the upgrades over the 80s, so that's the premium. Yep. And then the Extra Edition, which is the LE. I don't know how you're going to trademark Extra. It's a limited run, numerically sequenced. Extra Edition offering with all the extra luxury items for a flat fee. You could say a limited edition, even. We are focused on making, customizing your pinball machine unlike any other pinball buying experience. So like I said earlier, it looks like you could almost build your, like, I want this with this. With this, with this. That kind of thing.
    95:39
    So customization is easy. It allows you to power over your purchasing cost. So they are doing. Games may have one version, two versions. There are all three versions available. Oh, so not every game will have every version.
    95:54
    Interesting. Because I'm thinking something like Magic Girl, whenever that comes out, would probably only be the upper bottles, I would assume. Now are you ready? This is how we're going to end with this. The future titles.
    96:08
    This is why we brought on Zach. Oh, God, well. I don't believe the first one here. Fire and Brimstone. They're going to do this game. Robert Mueller designed it himself. The first multi-denominational religious pinball game. Oh. Relive the Old Testament. Fires, death, everything in the Bible. It'll come alive. Do not do a religious pinball theme. It'll just, no. No, it's multi-denominational religious, Ron. No. Is it going to be like, The plague. Locusts. We're going to have locusts coming out of the machine.
    96:53
    Oh, God. Literally, God. 15. No. 10. 10 commandments for all to obey. This is such a bad idea. Oh, my God. I love that this one is designed by Mueller. Like, you know what? I got you for a pinball machine, and I'm going to make a company to make this machine. Hold on. And then all the guys are going, it's the boss. Just let him fucking do it. Come on. Don't worry about it. You know, no one was raising their hand on that one. Like, ah, no, you know what? We'll let you take that one, boss. You got it.
    97:27
    And they made it. It's like the first one. Oh, and that's not all. We have food truck, which will be very ass-worthy. gets your orders filled quickly and accurately to keep your social media reviews up for maximum scores. It sounds like a freaking iPhone game. I mean, this sounds like a P3 game. The Roach Couch? Coach. Roach Coach. Roach Coach will try to steal your customers and look for any opportunity to post bad reviews on Yelp, probably, and sabotage your business.
    98:00
    Wow. Okay. Merlin's Arcade. That's going to be my man, John Norris. Medieval Arcade Olympics set in the 80s. Train with Merlin in the Knights of the Round Table. No, I guess it's like All-Star Lap Olympics, but with medieval people.
    98:23
    Based off of 8-Ball Deluxe. Wow, so we actually had the play. He's probably not using 8-Ball Deluxe. He's probably going to be using Bad Girls. based on 8-Ball Deluxe with flow and precision around new mechs. How long do we have more 8-Ball Deluxes than Eldorados? And guess what? We're going to just put a spinner on it like the guys from Slam Tilt said, and we're good to go. This is all the new mech we need. Then we got Barry Osler. Well, he made Queen for Highway, which didn't happen, but he gets to make the who.
    98:58
    Cricket. You just picture, like, using the new always-on functionality before you even step up to the game. It'll just, like, see you in the distance and start playing Pinball Wizard for you. No, no. And that's going to suck because every pinball player, pinball person who likes pinball, hates. Yeah, no. What will happen is when you walk up to the game, the first prompt after you hit the start button, the pin bar will say, Pinball Wizard song, yes or no? Yeah. No, no. When you hit the start button, it's going to go, yes! Yes! That better be like the jackpot sound. Oh, yeah. Unique mechs and special effects round out this musical spectacle. That I'm interested in. Interested in. The next one I could have swore would have been John Norris. Gladiator. Like a sequel to Gladiators. Play as Septimus. That's the, uh, when you have septus? Oh, God. Captured slave who must rise in the ranks of gladiators of Rome. hone your skills to the senators and overthrow the emperor who killed your family and enslaved you. So literally a gladiator. They based this off the movie. It is off the movie, but it's not the movie. Based on 3D space cadet layout. Why? The first virtual table converted to a physical layout. Subways galore. Does it say, um, are you entertained? Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained by me? This one's interesting. Yukon Yeti designers Robert Mueller and Zenith Nordman. I wonder if halfway through, Nordman said, fuck you, I quit, and Robert took over, and that's why they're both on there. They're like evil, what are they, like hair bearers? A goofy and lighthearted game, the mischievous and lovable teenage Yukon Yeti feuds with gold miners against the backdrop of the late 1890s Yukon gold rush. who doesn't want a sequel to Whitewater? So they're billing this as like a sequel to Whitewater because it has the Yeti. It actually reminds me more of that, oh, what was it, the Abominable Snowman movie? The one with Meatloaf in it. It's a terrible movie, and it has like a little Bigfoot thing that looks like that. New exit, new great multi-flow to expect from the original. So they're basing this as like truly Whitewater 2, which is, boy, I think somebody might have a problem with that. No, why would he have a problem? He was doing it. I think Williams would have a problem with it. Why? It's a sequel to Whitewater. If it doesn't call their Yetis. The Yetis from Whitewater went and formed a new world. They can't do anything about that. Yeah, okay. When you actually state that it's a sequel to something, and what you expect from the original, which is going back to then Whitewater, that's a trademark infringement. Okay, okay, okay. It's okay, Williams lawyer, dude. Get him!
    101:52
    Okay, so Machine Age by Dennis Nordman. You are dropped into a battle spanning ages, beings, and time itself. Help two diesel punk heroes take on the world's greatest threat in this dystopian thriller with the help of a mystery ally. They're really going for the whole other... No, no, no. This is when they couldn't get the license for what's the new movie that just came out with Keanu Reeves? Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. This is Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Dropped in a battle spanning ages, beings, and time itself. Helped two diesel punk heroes, Bill and Ted. And the mystery ally is, what's his name? Whoa. Yeah, I got it. This is not Miss Teenage. This is Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Like, Bruce, if you're us, what number are we thinking of right now? 69 dude yeah am I right or am I wrong oh that does when you say it that way yeah that kind of is what it is I don't think they're diesel pumped no they're not diesel pumped I'm just saying everything else we don't we never the thing is a lot of this fits into when they did their presentations they said a lot of the stuff was going to be all cinematic and story driven and all that so they are going all out open layout with three first-ever mechs selling video game quality animation. So all the games that they're selling suck the animations. We have the next one is for Zach. Title to be determined. It's going to be by Barry Osler. Man, they got Osler busy. He's busier here than he ever was at Williams, and he was busy at Williams. I got COVID. No, we are staying on these games. Work on them now. Space Pirates. We got Pirates. They keep order in the cosmos by causing nightmares for the villainous trade syndicates. Progress from grunt to captain in this cosmic keep-what-you-steal epic. This is a revisioning of the classic black hole with a groundbreaking mech that redefines multi-level play fields. It's a multi-level black hole about pirates. This is Zach's game right here. Only if it's from the Space Caribbean with Space Orlando Bloom. I mean, that's Zach, you're buying that game. Now, I have a question. We're at the last game, which is Magic Corridor. Oh, no, we're at the second-to-last game. Magic Girl by Papa Duke. In this game, the shit will actually work finally. The mix will exist. We'll use the right size play show glass. And there you go. Five heroes will embark on a quest to search out the ultimate secret, the elixir of immortality.
    104:32
    So now, Papa Duke has only designed really one game, and the new games are coming out. Well, Raza and Magic Girl. Which have been designed for how many years? Oh, that's right, they didn't work. Okay. Then they have Hey You Guys 2021, which is Goonies. So they're doing Goonies. Other titles in development Alice I assume it Alice in Wonderland Which is probably Papa Duke Yeah Combative Racing license Racing license I don know what that means Cart racing No, no. It's going to be, what's the one from the first game from. Carmageddon? No, no, no. They flatten people. The drop targets are people and you hit them. Splat. The motorcycle racing game from. Mad Max? Road Kings. No. Road Kings. Yes.
    105:16
    Splat. Multiplex? Vikings 2, Thunderdome. Is that like on the Matrix, Multiplex? I don't know. Popular board game license. Wow. Monopoly 2, Electric Boogaloo. Trifigo. Trifigo? Yes. Trivial Pursuit, the game. You get to answer the questions on the touchscreen. Yeah. An 80s movie license. I assume that's the Goonies, but yes.
    105:43
    Wow. I mean, there was one thing reading all the other stuff, but the game list was just like, wow. But now we know why Norman left, because he had to get stuck working with the boss. Well, and also Norman leaves everywhere, so. Second thing, you know what's the worst thing about this whole thing? The worst thing about this whole thing is what? Not seeing a fucking game.
    106:09
    Well, you saw some of. No, no, no. Playability. and a new system all working together. And a year and a half later, I think Mueller needs to do two things. Stop being the voice of Deep Root. He needs to stop being Hulk Hogan is what you're saying. He needs to stop being Hulk Hogan because guess what? He made his whole company look like a bunch of fucking idiots. And I feel bad for these people who are working there right now because guess what? Because they're working their ass off, obviously, looking at some of this stuff. There's a lot of new innovations, but guess what? is you can't get number one and have all these people come in, and on a date time that you set, that's really piss poor. And it all goes back to the time. Let me just do another, an alternate reality here. Imagine a reality where Robert Mueller doesn't run his mouth. He starts this company, hires all these people, and they just kind of disappear for a while. Yep. Like for three years. Even before, you don't hear about them. You're just kind of in the background. And then when the stuff is actually completely ready, they release it. They do a release, and you're like, holy fucking shit. Where did these guys come from? Holy crap. Holy shit. And you have more than one game. You have multiple games. Let's say you have three different games. We have these different games, and we have these in the pipeline, and we have all this trademark stuff. We have our pin armor, and our play fields are indestructible, and look at our cabinet. Some of these innovations are things that people have wanted forever, like the online stuff. Yeah, and you give people innovation, and the first thing they say is like, oh, it looks too different. What do you think it's going to look like? Now, the problem I also have is, besides not having a game, is, is there a freaking factory line? Is there a production facility? Supposedly they didn't see any. No, of course not. So you still, guess what, you have this one game release, this five days of Deep Root, we're going to wow everybody, which is now the one day of disappointment, which was not, now it's going to be the one day at this point, which is 9-21-20, and we still haven't gotten even close to a production game. What do we think, so we knew they had some technical glitches with Raza, but it sounded like there was more involved in something else, some other feedback. What kind of feedback could you have that they wouldn't have noticed, like the people were, because it's not like, let's be real here. they have industry veterans up the ass for that company yeah people have built Barry Osler John Norris like built and programmed games he was actually working on production lines holy crap I mean they have experience up the ass how could I'm just trying to think how this wouldn't have come up whatever this was even like the technical difficulties unless magically that day unless the problem is this And this is the only thing I thought of. If the designer, Papa Duke, is the only one that's allowing anything to happen to his game. And like with typical Papa Duke problems, they've just festered and continued to grow and get worse and worse. Every game you've ever heard about him being on, it was always a nightmare. So what you're saying is, like, this is my game, no one's grizzled it but me? Yeah. Really? Yeah, it seems kind of... Well, if he keeps on telling them, hey, we're going right along, we're going right along, we're going right along. And don't forget, Robert's now working on other stuff, and he's depending on maybe Papa Duke saying, hey, this is all in the bag, don't worry, worry about the other stuff. The thing I have a problem with, there's no selling. They have no infrastructure for how to sell these games. That's true. There's no nothing.
    109:57
    Distributors, are they selling direct? Foreign countries, what are they selling? What are they doing? The first time we saw that something was going to be brought up saying, if you want to be a distributor, contact us, was a week and a half ago. A week and a half ago you thought about this? That's true. I mean, that's got to go beyond, like, a designer either. Like, it almost seems like there must be some management thing of just, like, you know, maybe me or maybe not, but, like, you know, he goes, like, okay, we're going 9-21, and all the workers are like, what?
    110:28
    You know, and then, like, they get some outside people, and they're like, you're crazy, we're not ready yet. and then, like, finally he listens or something, you know. Who's, like, head of manufacturing there? I don't think they hired – the only person I think that actually has manufacturing ability there is Norris, because he said in past things he was actually on the line at college sometimes. I'm thinking more like who's their George Gomez? There is none. Not even George Gomez. Think about it. They have nobody there who's really worked – like, I know Papa Duke, I've heard this from people in Williams when he was there, didn't really go down the line except for walking through and watching him build it. Norris, yes, he got on hands and, you know, because it was a small company. Even that, who is, like, from the administrative standpoint, you have designers who design, programmers who program. Where's the administration? None, I don't think. Balzer has helped set up Jersey Jack, and then he helped eventually with, what's it called, with Hot Wheels. With Hot Wheels, American Pinball, they're called. He helped them with that, you know, their company. They don't have that person, I think, down there. And if they can't even show, like, a partial production line after three years or anything, why? And we were actually, before Jersey Jack made pinball machines or just started making pinball machines, me and Ron were at the tour, and we actually got to see the line. Remember that? Yep. there's nothing in three years of bragging and talking and all this other stuff I feel like this is more like I feel like this is alien and some English twit that doesn't know what the fuck he's doing when he's trying to sell games why do I have to be English screw you Bruce doesn't it sound like full throttle doesn't sound like all these promises that were made. I know he hasn't taken any money. And that's for saving grace. And honestly, it hurts more seeing a lot of these things they're trying. It's like, wow, these are some interesting ideas. It would really suck if they couldn't bring this to market. I want to play these damn games. I want to see the pin bar in action. The pin bar looks like the most incredible thing. But the thing is, three years.
    112:52
    Not one. Again, three years, but with all of the talk. BS, the talk. If you didn't take anyone's money and just kind of stay in the background and didn't say one word and didn't do this until you were ready, none of this would you be like, God, they'd be like, holy shit, oh my God, I don't believe this. Look at all these games. As you said, it would have been like, oh, hey, a 921 turn on to this channel, our Facebook page, you'll see a big, humongous thing starting. Think about it. His Facebook page didn't start until a month and a half ago. Yeah. It didn't even start. They had, like, no social... Or maybe it was on, and it wasn't on. No, I think they didn't really have any presence from what I heard. Even, like, their website... Oh, the website's terrible. It's not responsible. Yeah, I mean, their social presence is whatever show Robert Mueller gets interviewed on. Exactly. And Twip. No offense, I'm not blaming Jeff on this, but you're then limiting yourself to maybe 5,000 people. Where a website, guess what? Somebody's looking for pinball.
    114:00
    His marketing and his management, he should not be the face of this company. Didn't they talk about originally how they were going to use all these new production methods, like quad assembly and all this stuff? Octo. Octo assembly. Yeah. It's just... There's nothing impressive with the glass. The glass is from 1969.
    114:26
    The lift bar assembly is from Bally. The pin bar is definitely incredible. The back box, take it or leave it, it's still a back box.
    114:39
    Yeah, there's no real functional difference. Yeah, it looks like Aptor. Honestly, it's actually worse because you have a smaller display area. you have the smallest display area out of all the games. Well, it's wider. Yeah. It's wider, but it really, I think, is going to be smaller because look at the scoreboard on that one. When you go up top and look at the scoreboard on a four-player game, you can't see shit. Yeah, they made it wide, and then they made, like, the border of it is like a static graphic, and then the picture's within it. They got the Jersey Jack problem with readability. Yeah, exactly. The thing is, yeah, it's going to be great with some things,
    115:20
    but the only thing that wows me is the pin bar. And maybe the games will. Hopefully the games will. And the whole self-leveling thing and all that. Well, we'll see. We don't know that, though. That's an innovation coming soon. That's not even... Oh, yeah, that's true. I'm pretty sure some other manufacturer had that or prototyped it. I can't remember who it was. Probably P3. They do everything. It was either Stern or P3. And this is from a guy who's commented saying P3 is not innovative.
    115:52
    He's quoted that. Well, he probably said we will be more innovative or something like that. He said, I think P3 was not innovative. I don't know how that cannot be innovative. I know. But I just. It's frustrating, isn't it? It's very disappointing because I know all the people who work there who probably have busted their asses, and tried to get this far. Why did he have to go with a static date?
    116:21
    That's what I like to know. Why did you have to go with 9-21? And why did he have to be like this, brother? And the thing is, if this is the new date, if this is all they had working, what would they have had in March? When they were supposed to do this, what would they have shown?
    116:38
    Was the pin bar ready then? Were they sleeping? Were they home? Doing nothing? I'm just trying to think. And the fact that you're bringing people in to show this stuff and filming everything, but you still, like, oh, well, that's not the final version. Yeah, if COVID did not happen, what would his excuse been on March 21st? What would they have shown at TPF? I don't know. And we haven't even talked about actual Raza, like, if the game is any good. We don't know. We only know from a year ago. And we know the ramp wasn't makeable for the most part. Yeah. And he said in an interview after that that they made modifications and now it is makeable. So that's all we know. We don't know because what made them to stop and say, whoa, you're still in beta?
    117:27
    Yeah. And we didn't even get to see, like for me, I'd love to see underneath the play field. And I don't mean the shot they have of the bottom of the play field that's all marked up, you know, with the components. I mean, what does it look like in the back box? Is it, you know, does it open? Is it just a screen? I don't think it back boxes accessible. I think all the CPU stuff is on the bottom. On the bottom. Well, we didn't see any of it. What does it all look like? I bet you it is.
    117:53
    I'd love to see that stuff. I bet you it's all on the bottom. And pricing? Nothing. Nothing with the pricing? Other than rumors, the only rumors were like the arcade model, the lower model, It would be less than a pro, a stern pro, but the LE with the extra, XTRA, would be more than a stern LE.
    118:16
    But the problem I have is, originally, we were told it would be one level. I'm not going multiple levels. I want to get games for the, oh, my God. Oh, yeah. The original conversation was, you know, we're going to have the kick-ass game, and it's going to cost less than a stern. And then that kind of changed over time as the interviews went on, and, yeah. Yeah, just I am so, I think they need to do three things. Mr. Mueller, you need to be in the background. You got to do what they did to the president almost like, you know. You need to take away his Twitter account. Like they did to the president, as we know. Yeah, I know, they have it, but they did that also. You need to take away his. You need to Trump-proof him, is that what you're saying? No, make him Trump, anti-Trump. Don't say anything. That's what I said, Trump-proof. Yeah. But you need to get him off the internet and have a face. You need a face at his company, and it can't be him now.
    119:10
    It can't be him. He needs to be in the background. He needs you to supply the money, and he needs to get a guy running the manufacturing. And not like a Gomez, but something like a Gomez. Yeah, something like a Gomez. He needs somebody who's going to take hold.
    119:30
    Maybe they have somebody. I mean, I don't know. I've never heard anything about that level. I've heard designers.
    119:37
    I mean, we know Steve is there. We know I've seen some of the story writers because they had story writers because everything's a story. They were at like one of the expos. But I've never heard anything about who is, you know, who's in charge of ordering parts and setting up the line and the facility and all that. No offense. Here's the most arrogant thing I saw in this whole pinball machine. When it says on the bottom of the artwork for the front upper back glass, concept by J-Pop, designed by Deep Root, directed by Mueller, you know, it's all like big shout-outs, like, look, we did this, and why? They're just credits, Bruce. It's part of the theme. It's a movie. I think you're overthinking that one. But it's not a really good movie if you can't see the movie. Oh.
    120:28
    I'm a fan of making the credits more visible. I thought it was a cool way to show the credits, to be honest, because we've got a lot of games out there. No, I didn't think at all. Compared to, like, a Stern, like, once they were, like, 60 attack modes, you get them shown one of those games. Yeah, come on, Bruce. They don't even put them on the damn playfield on Sterns, which I think is insulting. They always did that at Williams. They're right on the playfield. At least have, like, designers sign the playfield in the ink or something, you know, like, as part of the artwork, like they do on the classic Sterns. Yeah. You've got to bear a minimum. Yeah, come on. Didn't Steve Kirk teach you anything? Your name on the damn game. Okay, but why did Robert Mule have to be on there? He didn't do much. Because it's his company. Why does Stern have to be on every Stern?
    121:08
    But it's just, I don't know. He hasn't put out anything, though. That's the problem I have. Just, I am not, I just feel bad for all the workers. And are you, okay, now, here, okay, one through ten. Are you impressed with what you see so far? Oh, yeah. Just first, let's go with like one through ten. Ten, like, wow, oh, my God, it's the best thing I've ever seen in sliced bread. What I've been seeing, what I've actually seen, or what I've been told. What you've been shown. I mean, as far as what they want to do, like ten. As far as what I've seen, I haven't seen enough. I've seen, like, one screen of the pin bar in a diagnostic screen, and that's it. and I've seen the glass thing that, like you said, looks like a ballet game from the 60s, and it's not even the final model. And I hate that kind of glass anyway, to be honest. I was never a fan of that. What? I don't like it either. I don't like it. Sorry. Have you seen Highway? Highway did something similar. They had it all as one piece. Yep. Oh, I hated that. I didn't make it lift up, so. Why do you hate on the ballets? I didn't like that. Why not? Maybe I was spoiled by Highway, but. I want reasons. Reasons? I don't think it's that... I don't like it in one piece. Yeah, I don't like it in one piece either. I don't like it in one piece. When I take the glass out, I go... You want to open the game without having to, like, take the blackened bar off and stuff? I still don't like it in one piece. Because if the glass breaks, then you've just got to frame. Yeah, then replace it. It comes apart. Yeah, they had trouble doing it at the one show where they had Alien. Yeah. Because the thing busted and it sat on... Again, Highway Messers up. Yeah, Highway Messers up. The Valley one's pretty good. So, yeah, I got to see one diagnostic screen. if it does half the shit they say it's going to do, that's awesome. But I didn't see any of it in action.
    122:59
    The play field, I mean, you see a couple shots of play fields. And then you see the bottom, there's a hammer test. Which we don't know. We never saw that. Nobody saw it. Well, no, they saw it. The people there saw it. Yes, exactly. And it said they did not dimple, but they also said it looked like it had orange peel and it wasn't smooth. In audio, obviously, I couldn't hear any of the games, so I can't tell you how that looks. And there's not a single under the play field or in the cabinet shot to see what anything looks like. I do like the play field being tipped up all the way. Did you see that? Where is that? If you look at the glass, where it's in the upright position. Oh, yeah. The play field is almost vertical with it. So the play field comes pretty far out. Man, you see a lot of stuff. You can see wiring. Okay, you can see, like, an inch of wiring. Yeah. That's another way of wiring I've proved now. But you see the play field is almost at the same angle as that glass. Mm-hmm. And that's pretty impressive for accessibility. Is that someone just holding it there, like, off camera? I don't know. Like, on any EM, you could do that. Yeah, true. Let's tie a ball on this, though. I said what I think. What do you think, Zach? What do you think? everything besides the actual game looks good. Which is, like, hard to say of, like, pretty much anything, really. I'm sort of impressed of, like, none of the ideas seem like bad ideas to me. The actual, like, the layout of Raza doesn't look too good to me just as a game, and the theme doesn't look too good to me as a game. What do you think of the themes, the upcoming games?
    124:36
    Most of them look very generic, and I doubt half of them actually will be made. Like, I can't actually picture them making food truck, the pinball machine.
    124:46
    You know, so I gotta feel like only a few of these are actually, like, these are all working titles.
    124:54
    And they might be redeemed for something else. Or they'll be dropped, you know, like, or something. Because you figure they're gonna at least try to make Magic Girl, Alice in Wonderland, well, The Who. There's one guarantee. They're gonna make The Who, most likely. You know, like, maybe one of the other ones. I'm thinking maybe Merlin's Arcade, because with Merlin's, at least you saw partially, like, a screenshot of what this level looked like. Or, like, even, like, the Whitewater one, like, multi-level playfields. I like multi-level playfields. Or Blackwater. Or the Space Pirates one with the groundbreaking multi-level playfield. Like, I like groundbreaking multi-level playfields, because it's literally groundbreaking. Like, it breaks up through the main playfield or something. Yeah. You know, it's, like, the very vague features listed they've given sound cool, but, like, literally anyone can like say, yeah, we're going to have a cool multi-level play field. Just wait, you know, you got to see that. But everything you've shown looks cool. Yeah. It looks lookable.
    125:51
    You know, people say two steps, I'd go two steps forward, I'll take two steps back. I think they went originally two steps forward and they are now negative numbers.
    126:03
    They're behind the eight ball. So three steps back. Yeah, or four. I think it was four. Oh, four. Oh my God. Four. So they're going to have to take at least, how many, six to get back in front or something? Or five? They think it's all their goodwill of not taking money and the BS and the other stuff. That's what people will say. They've never taken money, so how could you be upset or anything? They haven't taken your money. The amount of anger that all of you have unleashed over them not releasing the video. It's stupid. No, it's not stupid. It's just like this. If you were waiting for a game or a car and – You don't wait for the new edition of a car to come out. Well, sometimes they do, like the Bronco. Did you see what they did with the Bronco? No, because I don't care. Oh, me? I was a car nut. So when they put out the Bronco, they had a time stamp. But, like, it's like they delayed the reveal of the next Corvette for six months. You're not going to be like, oh, my life is ruined, you know, like – I kind of would have been. I like cars. But I'm looking at it this way. I'm just saying it this way. It was just the arrogance of this guy. That is a lot of it. I mean, honestly, I don't understand the anger more. I wouldn't understand more if it was comical.
    127:22
    For example, a certain programmer of a certain Jersey Jack company, a certain programmer that's known for very deep rule sets, may or may not have tweeted after the reveal didn't happen, this big tweet, that long tweet that was just him saying, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, like the entire tweet.
    127:42
    I thought that was kind of like, really? It's childish, but it's fine. That is kind of childish. I think the other manufacturers should kind of take the high road. Oh, I know. As opposed to us. I mean, we're slam tilt. We suck. But, I mean, they really should be taking the high road there. The thing is, I think everything that they've shown for as a pin bar, the pin bar is incredible. I think the leveling system, if they can show us this, would be great. The speakers in the front of the cabinet, there's no need for that.
    128:15
    My crotch does not need to be getting pounded. Oh, God. I mean, all this stuff's going to be cool, but the other question is, even if they get through this and get some manufacturing going, are the games going to be any good? Exactly. And we don't know about the manufacturing part. Yeah, exactly. If you didn't have anything to show for the game, wouldn't you have said, hey, by the way, let's show you some of the manufacturing.
    128:38
    Let's show you this behind the scenes. So when the game is ready to show, we can have these games boxed and ready to go. No. I can't say anything. So even if the game was perfect showing, perfect. And he's always said, I'm going to have a game to release when I show it.
    128:59
    Still, different rules. He doesn't follow his own rules. That's why I'm so mad. There are no rules, brother. You just got to say your prayers, take your vitamins, dude. He was making fun of other companies not releasing stuff or going very slow. Oh, he was making a lot of fun of a lot of companies, yeah. That did not work out well. And you just did the worst blunder of all out of every pinball company. well besides one of the ones that failed taking one's money I know but it's with it's no worse because guess what how is it worse it's not worse I'd rather see something and say maybe I'll buy it I have nothing to buy as a consumer in a consumer market when you're a manufacturer in a consumer market and you put a date down like Xbox or Playstation 5 exactly you put this stuff out to hopefully pre-sell to make, eventually make the money to make the product. I don't have a product to see on the release date that you've made.
    130:02
    But it's not the release date. They push it back. Well, original pushed back their release dates before. No, it isn't. They've made three release dates they've missed now. Yeah, wasn't the original supposed to be? 2019, TPF.
    130:18
    2020, TPF. Now, 92120. Three strikes. You're out. Well, try to wrap this up in maybe a more positive note. I was thinking when I was looking at these games, I was thinking if you were going to design the worst game ever, what components would you use? I mean things like I'm going to take the body of a 6803 and then the black box of a System 3 Gottlieb, because I want one that's taller than normal so I can't fit it anywhere. And specifically, you've got to use the one for, like, Dungeons & Dragons, like, slanted. Yes, slanted, terrible cap. Very good. So we got, okay. With the body width of a Pokerino. Well, no. Well, let's have things that actually existed, though. No, Pokerino, that's the widest game. Yeah, but, okay. That's the widest cap that's ever. No, the Gottlieb did those. Yeah, they did those. I thought it was the Pokerino. No, it was the Circus and Star Race, or the two of the five. Okay, so Circus. With the Circus, with the lockdown bar of a Pocorino. Yes. So you, okay. With a cabinet design of a 6803 Dungeons and Dragons. With the play field of a Close Encounters of the Third Time with a System 1 soundboard. With a Roto Target and a Vary Target System 3 Gottlieb Flippers. Oh, yes. What are the worst drop targets? We're going to make a play field vitric raft so that it peels off over time. Yep. Yes. Yep. And what are the worst drop targets? We will use Ghostbusters, Scolari Brother targets. Scolari targets. All over the play field. Every shot is one of those in front of it. Yep. Yes. Every ramp. So you have to hit that before you make the ramp shot. All the ramps are like the Williams just black, plain black ramps, the crack. Yep. with no flap on them. And you have three levels to choose from when you start your game, level one, level two, or level three. But the most randomized. Motor whatever, what was that name of that game? Motor Dome. The Gottlieb flippers are offset like Totem, but there's two sets like Ruffy. And the Atari score displays in the apron. Yes, like Atari score displays in the apron. With a CRT monitor in the... Oh, God, from Caveman. in the back. From Caveman in the back. And we just used all Atari Macs. We used all our boards at the bottom of the cabinet with no shielding like Atari. And that would be the perfect game. We've just designed... With JJP light boards. With JJP first edition light boards from Wizard of Oz. We've done it. We've created the worst destructive game ever. I like that game. That was fun. I was thinking about that the other day. if you're trying to assemble the worst parts of every game, you know, physical, construction. Oh, and the flipper gap from Ghostbusters. You forgot the Iron Man slingshots. Oh, the weak Iron Man slingshots. God, I hate them.
    133:28
    Oh, and the Gottlieb spinner. Oh, Gottlieb. Yes, yes. We have three of those. We have three of them. We have four spinners. The first game of four spinners and they're all Gottlieb. And they're all Gottlieb plastic spinners.
    133:41
    It's been like one time when you hit the worst game ever. And last but not least, it's lit completely by Pinsteadi.
    133:55
    No, it's lit by two primary colors. And all the flashes are done by, what's his name? Dwight Sullivan. Dwight Sullivan Light Show and the Translight is a photorealistic gotley, like Hollywood Heat. or the insert lights are ghosting from the factory yes and we use the concern clear coat so it craters as much as possible oh what a great game we've made I feel happy yep alright I think we're done too I can't wait till we see a new game so Deep Root keep trying man keep trying I'll be there to show for you if you come up with something So why? Oh, yeah, Bruce will now, too. He doesn't have a bar. We can't wait to see the thing. Bruce can't wait to see the pin bar.
    134:47
    I actually want to see the pin bar, and I want to see this thing tilt like a PB tilter. Yeah. Oh, yeah, we want the new appliance. It's an interactive exhibit. They bring the appliance out, and it's literally a copy of the PB tilter in every way.
    135:00
    Be like, God damn it. Well, thanks, everyone. This has been Episode 151. Three strikes, you're out. Thanks, Zach, for joining us. Don't we say hi, Zach? Zach's here. Catching up. Yes. You're a new leader. Extending my lead. Yes. And it sounds weird saying this, but hi, Steve. I'm a bonus. Hi, Steve. We still love I'm a bonus. I know. We still love it, even though now it's not every day. It's not every day. Oh. I miss that. And everyone out there in podcast land, I'm sick of saying everyone's name. We are Slam Till Podcast, though. I'll remember to actually plug our stuff for once. Thanks, Jeff. Well, first, thank Jeff. Jeff did a great job down there and taking the pictures and everything like that. We cannot have done this episode without Jeff from This Week in Pinball. We cannot do our episodes without stealing stuff from Jeff on the Internet. If you can plug us and write your comments on This Week in Pinball for the podcast database. Yeah, I hear we've rocked there. We're doing well, but we can always use more. We're in the top ten, and we're one of the, you know, so give us a positive feedback. An Apple podcast, give us any kind of feedback. Negative is good. Any kind of, you know, we'll read you on the air if it's negative enough. We love reading those. Yes, we love negativity, but positive is always better because we always like to be negative, so we need some positivity in our lives. To counteract the negative. I get it. Okay. See? Yes, we're on Facebook, Sister for Slamtail Podcast, still streaming regularly on Twitch. and um yes slam oh yeah but the cool thing about slam podcast upper right hand corner all the links to all the shit I just mentioned is there including our email address which is slam podcast at gmail dot com search by going by the search button and type in anything you like to see and just search for Zach and you'll find all the good episodes yep all 16 of them are 15 even so that's good and then uh I get to go play some pinball this weekend what that's right Zach's not but I will Where are you playing pinball? Pocketeer. There's a tournament. In Buffalo? A tournament. Wait a minute, a tournament? Yep, you should come out and do that instead. How are they doing that? Social distancing, man. How many people are they going to have there? They can fit up to 75. What? That doesn't sound like a good idea. It's a great idea. Just wear your mask. Oh, Jesus. You've got to wear your mask. You can clean each machine after you're done. They have all the cleaners there. Oh, yeah, okay. And they have plenty of hand sanitizer. Oh, you're going to need more than hand sanitizer for 70 people. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my God. I don't see 70 people going there. I hope not. I heard a team league night. We had 18. Oh, league? You have leagues? Team league nights. What the hell? And Zach was offered to come out, but he refused. Refused? He would be on the number one team right now. Wait a minute. So he didn't decline. He literally refused. Did you, Zach? I don't know the difference between those two things. Yeah.
    138:00
    Refusing is just saying no. declining is saying, like, a reason why he did not want to go there. I mean, I always put my reasons. You know that one. I know, and that would be a decline then. He respectfully declined or unrespectfully declined. He unrespectfully declined. Unrespectfully to some people, unrespectfully to other people. Yes, there you go. See? And before we go, Bruce tells me we might have some very interesting guests coming up. Yes, we have a couple people. We're going to wait until we actually play a game before we talk to the people about their game. Unlike this episode. I wonder what that could be. Of course, I don't know when I'm going to get to play that game. And we also got to do a cluster. Yeah, you're still at the cluster. You still keep talking about the cluster. I got people asking me when it's going to be. 152. I think it's being down my door, too. Oh, they are? Yeah. That's safe. All right. Thanks, everybody. Until next time, say goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, Andrew Doan. Thank you. Oh my.
    139:32
    Oh my.