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We can't just push reset?

BlahCade Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 30m·analyzed·Jan 12, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Blockade hosts critique virtual pinball cabinet reviews and discuss hardware/software trade-offs.

Summary

Chris Freebus and Jared Morgan discuss 2021 pinball and arcade developments, including reviews of AtGames Legends Pinball and Arcade1Up cabinets, analyzing software quality, haptic feedback mechanisms (solenoids vs. transducers), and playfield restoration options like hardtops. They critique reviewers for lacking technical depth and call for more substantive software comparisons.

Key Claims

  • Farsight has made no significant software improvements to their Pinball Arcade build across 8 years of deployment across multiple cabinet platforms

    high confidence · Chris: 'We've been following it ever since like they started slapping their software in all these cabinets. Eight years, Jared. We've been at this for eight years. Yeah. And you know that nothing has changed in that build that they're slapping on all these cabinets, particularly as it's the Android build.'

  • AtGames Legends Pinball uses transducers (speakers) for haptic feedback rather than true solenoids, producing a wave-based vibration rather than direct impact

    high confidence · Jared: 'they carved out the wood, and that speaker is right up against the plastic underneath your hands... turning the speakers up to 10 and having that all in your face rather than having a nice balanced array of speakers around you delivering subtle differences in vibration and tone.'

  • The claim that solenoids wear out after less than a year of daily play is false; matched solenoids in arcade actuators are designed for repetitive cycling

    high confidence · Jared: 'I'm calling bullcrap on a solenoid wearing out after a year... these things are essentially like solid-state solenoids... They're designed for repetitive use, and they're not designed like a flipper mechanism.'

  • Stern Pinball Arcade's PC interface is significantly worse than its Switch version, but improvements were not ported to PC because they weren't in the original contract

    high confidence · Chris: 'Stern Pinball Arcade on PC—the interface is verging on unusable... When they put it out on the Switch, they made massive improvements... And I was like, "Oh, so we're going to be getting this on PC, aren't we?" No. Nope. And why? Because that wasn't the contract.'

  • Hardtop playfield overlays cost $315-325 versus $800-850 for CPR new playfields, providing similar restoration effect without art touch-up work

    high confidence · Chris: 'these are going to run you, looking at the site right now, $315, $325 for them... versus buying a CPR, a brand new playfield, which is usually going to run you about $800, $850'

Notable Quotes

  • “I think I'd like, you know, I think we're still within that seven-day return policy for 2021. I'd like my money back, please.”

    Chris Freebus @ early in episode — Opening joke about 2021 expectations; sets tone for discussion of delayed pinball releases

  • “We've been following it ever since like they started slapping their software in all these cabinets. Eight years, Jared. We've been at this for eight years. Yeah. And you know that nothing has changed in that build.”

    Chris Freebus @ mid-episode — Key claim about Farsight's lack of improvement over 8 years of cabinet deployment

  • “I'm calling bullcrap on a solenoid wearing out after a year.”

    Jared Morgan @ later in episode — Direct rebuttal of online claim about solenoid lifespan; demonstrates technical expertise

  • “Because that wasn't the contract. That wasn't the contract. It would have cost them extra money to do it.”

    Jared Morgan @ mid-episode — Explanation of software interface disparity between PC and Switch versions; illustrates contract-based development limitations

  • “The hardware seems great... If I had to spend the $600, I'd probably take a risk and actually get the AtGames, because I think they've got the right idea.”

    Chris Freebus @ early-to-mid episode — Positive assessment of AtGames hardware design vs. Farsight software concerns

Entities

Chris FreebuspersonJared MorganpersonFarsight StudioscompanyAtGamescompanyArcade1UpcompanyRetro RalphpersonDoug (CoolToy)personP-DubspersonStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Contract-based software development creates barriers to improvement; Stern Pinball's PC interface improvements from Switch version were not ported because not in original contract

    high · Jared: 'That wasn't the contract. It would have cost them extra money to do it.'

  • ?

    community_signal: No technical comparison content exists between Arcuda version and Android version of Pinball Arcade software; unclear if AtGames uses Arcuda port or separate build

    medium · Chris: 'I really want to see a side-by-side comparison... Is it just a port of the Arcuda software? Is it somehow different?'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: YouTube reviewers of virtual pinball cabinets lack technical depth; many reviewers have never played Pinball Arcade or virtual pinball before, limiting ability to spot software issues

    high · Chris: 'they're doing them in waves... one guy admitted, "I've never played virtual pinball. I only play real pinball"... "Oh god, this review is gonna suck"'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: AtGames Legends Pinball uses transducer speakers pressed directly against thin MDF for haptic feedback, creating wave-based vibration rather than solenoid impact

    high · Jared describes solenoid placement: 'speaker is right up against the plastic underneath your hands... basically turning the speakers up to 10 and having that all in your face'

  • $

    market_signal: Hardtop playfield overlays ($315-325) represent significant cost-saving alternative to full CPR playfield restoration ($800-850) for worn machines

    high · Chris shows hardtop pricing comparison: '$315, $325 for them... versus buying a CPR... which is usually going to run you about $800, $850'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.271

0:00
blockade pinball podcast this is the blockade pinball podcast i'm your host chris freebus aka shut your trap joining me as always halfway across the world jerry morgan good morning afternoon or evening folks i don't know what time it is or what date is you know whatever it's you know the sun is out that's all that matters right it's month fray it's month friday thursday wednesday i don't know right depending on when you're viewing this too it doesn't really matter so it's right it's material one one thing we do know one is 2021 b2 holidays happened and you know they weren't too shabby um and uh c uh as the title of this episode is can we just we we can't just push reset and everything goes back to normal i mean i thought that was the whole point of being in a new year no it we still gotta deal with crap i think i'd like you know i think we're still within that seven day return policy for 2021 i'd like my money back please um i just i just i really what i'm sure jurors hopes are this too um everything that we were promised pinball-wise?
1:22
Hopefully this year happens. Yeah, it's this year now. So this is 2020-B. Right. This is 2020-A. So all the Zen releases that we were going to be promised, yes! And all those pinball cabinets we were promised, yes! This year.
1:41
This one, yeah. All those movies that we were promised, yes! Yes. Life returns to normal. Well, sort of. Ish. Yeah. We can't have everything that we want right off the bat. I will say that I, and I'm late to this,
2:04
because as is with most video games on console, I tend to wait until there's a... Massive DLC download that you can just get on disk? get it on Game of the Year edition. Yes, that's the thing. Or that there's a massive price drop. And so, sure enough, this year, that's why I just played and finished Last of Us Part 2.
Melperson
CPR (Custom Pinball Restoration)company
Arcade1Up Marble Cabinetproduct
Arcade1Up Star Wars Cabinetproduct
Pinball Arcadeproduct
RK1A (Arcade1Up parent company reference)company
  • ?

    product_concern: Farsight has deployed identical Android build across all cabinet platforms for 8 years with no meaningful software improvements, despite multiple deployment opportunities

    high · Chris: 'We've been following it ever since like they started slapping their software in all these cabinets. Eight years, Jared... nothing has changed in that build'

  • ?

    content_signal: Content creators focusing on hardware specs and unboxing rather than detailed software analysis; basic stats available on manufacturer website anyway

    high · Chris: 'why are you saying... "It's a, you know, reading the bullet points: it's a 1080p monitor, it's running at 60 frames per second." Like that's nothing new. They can get that from the website'

  • ?

    technology_signal: False claims circulating about solenoid lifespan in arcade cabinets; one reviewer claimed solenoids die after less than a year of daily use

    high · Jared debunks: 'I'm calling bullcrap on a solenoid wearing out after a year... matched solenoids are designed for repetitive use'

    • 2:27
    And I gotta say, the controversies that people are bringing up with it? Really? There's controversies with the game? Oh, man, there's massive Well, part of the controversies happen to do with, and I will admit, it's brutal. Because I didn't read anything about this prior to. I want to say spoiler free. So I didn't read anything about the game prior to release. So I was coming at it, first time reaction basically. And so it's a continuation of the previous story. And you've got your main character, Ellie. who was the girl, but she's now grown up by, what, five years or so, basically. We like Ellie. We get introduced to this new character, Abby. And it's like, oh, okay, we're going to be dancing between these two characters. And so we start playing as Abby, and Abby's from an outsider group.
    3:27
    And real soon, Abby does some stuff that don't make you like Abby no more. Right, okay. And it was like, okay, So then you start playing the game a lot as Ellie and Ellie's kind of got her, her target set on Abby.
    3:42
    And then the game shifts and has you play as Abby for a really extended period of time. This character that you do not like in the least. And, and I've said this a while ago that my first playthrough of last of us didn't go so well. I had to reframe my, my thinking about how to play it. And I basically, it was because in the time that I tried starting it and the second time I tried playing it, The Walking Dead had come out, and I applied that mentality to my enjoyment of the game, and it improved it massively. I loved the first game. So I've still got that. I'm just playing a alternate universe Walking Dead, basically. Right. And one of the things that The Walking Dead has toyed with but never has really delved into is, like, really delved into, is what if your side isn't right?
    4:37
    What if the other side has an equally valid point of view and you're the enemy, right? And so by force... So if the zombies were actually the good guys and you're the bad guys, essentially. No, no, no. It's if the other human groups that are roaming around that you're fighting amongst.
    4:58
    Oh, yeah. Okay. who says that they're fighting for survival too. And so by making you play as Abby, you... Get a different perspective.
    5:10
    Exactly. You start seeing it from their end and being like, hey, these people did this wrong to us, and that's why we went to them, and they're perceiving that as the first wrong, but no, they already did a wrong to us, and so you start doing that. But the moment that was just really brutal in there was you're playing as Abby and you're beating the ever-living crap out of Ellie.
    5:33
    And the game is making you do this. Oh, jeez. That'd be pretty hard. It's like, is there an option to not throw punches? Please? Because I don't want to be doing this. Can I just accept that I've done the beating and just move past this part? Is that all right? It's like closing your eyes in a horror movie, right? Right. You don't want to see it. So apparently there was a lot of people they were upset about the the that's what the beating well it's not the beating but it's it's that having you play a character that you really despise um for socho an extended period of time but like i said i took it for what it was and in the moment as i'm that character they never have you as that character hunting the other group there's this third group that both sides don't like that you're still hunting those and i'm this person that just whenever i was what i love about the game i love stealth killing i hate jumping into the middle of a fracas i just like picking people off one by one and being the angel of death so you like you like um middle gear solid a lot then i used to i didn't care for this last one that i tried it it went a little too kojima for me.
    6:44
    A little too good to be his other thing, is it? He, um... He's got a style. And he really let that style freak flag fly where it's like, whenever a new character is introduced, all of a sudden there's dramatic music and their name appears like it's G.I. Joe or something, you know? And some wacky name, and you're like, oh my god, really? and then the dialogue starts and when he gets into dialogue, it just goes on and on and on and on. So it's more of a Metal Gear dialogue rather than Metal Gear Solid.
    7:24
    But yes, I will credit Metal Gear as what got me into stealth killing. Yes, absolutely. That's right. I get great enjoyment out of sneaking up and hearing somebody muffle cry and somebody else go, what happened? Where'd they go?
    7:40
    No, the The other controversy wound up being a trans character in the game. And I guess then people were saying if you didn't like the game, you were transphobic. Just because this character apparently took on a whole life of its own. I'm glad I didn't read any of that stuff because it was just like, really folks?
    8:08
    That's just silly. You can dislike a game just because you didn't like the gameplay. Or an element of the game. Right, exactly.
    8:18
    That's the only reason not to like a game, strangely enough. So yeah, that's what I did. You know, played pandemic-style end-of-the-world gaming. During a pandemic. During a pandemic at the end of this year.
    8:36
    But now I'm on happier things. Now I'm back to playing Spider-Man. swinging around the city with ease and abandon that's right, with ease and abandon hey, uh okay, so during this time period suddenly the pinball cabinets started dropping to select people for review purposes in terms of the arcade one-up cabinets Doug, also known as CoolToy he got the marble cabinet uh retro ralph he got the star wars cabinet um both of them did really high quality videos i gotta say i'm kind of impressed um that break down the machines and show the builds and you know all the features and stuff like that yeah um in terms of reviewing though the software there's things that I know that you and I want to know. And nobody's really touching upon that. And it kind of bugs me because I'm like,
    9:42
    the big reason why, and I see this in the comments of all these YouTube videos between those two, is people keep on asking, well, why wouldn't I just hook up a PC? Why wouldn't I just hook up a PC? And I keep on thinking, because there are things that are in this that are not available on the Steam version, are not available on the Switch version, and it's particularly that table view. I really want to see a side-by-side comparison of what that table view looks like and what cabinet view via PC looks like so that we can highlight the differences and maybe spot if there were graphical improvements or not, which we've heard rumor, but we don't know. Yeah.
    10:23
    Then you've got the reviews coming in for AtGames with the Legends pinball. So once again, Doug, he actually paid for his and got it, sent $100 shipping. It was in wave one. $100 shipping, yowch.
    10:39
    I know that Pdubs got one and then there was a couple of fringe, like I was just starting to see videos pop up on YouTube. So I started watching some of those. Just actual customers, essentially, just getting them. Yeah. And doing their own review. Because there's like, they're doing them in waves at the moment. So you're getting like a wave one, wave two. There's some actual customers that got into wave one. So those are probably the reviews that I'm referencing the most with what I'm about to say. So these are not the content creator reviews. These are the individual people reviews.
    11:12
    Yeah, well, because I was watching those. I was waiting for Doug's review to happen. And in the meantime, I started watching these other ones just to see what people were saying. and some of the wild things that i was hearing were just like really and the and the this is what gets me the most it just kind of frustrates me where you can clearly tell this is the first time these people have ever seen essentially pinball arcade being played they've never one guy admitted i've never played virtual pinball i only play real pinball but i like the the idea of this machine okay and i'm just like oh god this review is gonna suck so hardware wise everybody seems to like the hardware and i don't think yeah you wouldn't be surprised by that no it seems perfectly reasonable the hardware seems great yeah like the at games like they've got the right idea there, I think. And I've said that in the past. If I had to spend the $600, I'd probably take a risk and actually get the AtGains, because I think they've got the right idea.
    12:24
    But something that drives me bonkers. Okay, so software-wise. And again, a lot of what drives me bonkers is you start reading the comments and you realize that if the person had done a proper review of the software, these comments wouldn't be existing.
    12:40
    But pointing out, gee, it seems floaty, or why is the ball oblong at various points? To which, again, I really want to see a screenshot of a top-down view of it, because I'm almost positive this is a port of the Arcuda version of the software. And one of the things that was really evident about that was as you went towards the top of the playfield, round objects became oblong or because of the perspective shift and that's just right well what it is and i and i realize this is you know when you come to a traffic stop and the word stop is written on the road it looks fine when you're in your car if you look at that thing from over top it looks funky because it's super long right it's that whole stretched perspective so if the table is lying flat and you're standing here and you're looking at it it's going to look good because the optical illusion works. That's how they've done the art, yeah. Yeah, what do they call it? The parallax view, I think? Yeah, I think so. Something like that. Yeah.
    13:50
    They do it on stadiums all the time, right? You see it on all the grass signage on sports fields. It's the same thing. Yeah, yeah.
    13:59
    So it's one of those things, again, I want to confirm it for myself and know, but also, why is nobody pointing it out while they're playing it? Why is, you know, when you're looking at these things, why aren't you saying you know and just to be like it's a you know reading the bullet points of it's a 1080p monitor it's running at 60 frames per second this is genius it's like well that's just read boxes right like that's nothing new like no one really cares about reading stats from a box like they can get that from the website right they want to know how is the software and the thing is that from people who have never literally never played Pinball OK! before, they'll be getting the shiny factor, right? Right. Well, I was thinking about it, and I was like, it'd be almost like, well, yeah, I really like watching movies at home. Yeah, it's great. Oh, you're going to go send me to a movie? Oh, and it's going to be in 3D?
    14:57
    Wow! And then you watch this 3D movie, and you're watching, and I'm just going to go way old school here to one that's noticeably, everybody knew was bad. You're watching Clash of the Titans and thinking, wow, 3D's amazing! having never seen Avatar. Yeah, exactly. You know, not knowing all the things that you should be looking at that are like, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, and that's wrong. Yeah. And it just comes down to familiarity. Unfortunately, you and I have a lot of familiarity with FastFight products. Yeah, yeah. And we know, well, I could pretty confidently say this, we know everything about that software. And what to look for. It's not a small boast. We really do. so like we we've been following it ever since like they started slapping their software in all these cabinets eight years jared we've been at this for eight years yeah and you know that nothing has changed in that build that they're slapping on all these cabinets particularly as it's the android build um well then you start hearing people and and this is what i want to kind of point out it's helpful to identify issues with the software so that you can demand better and ask that these things get corrected because if all you're doing is heaping praise on it then there's no reason why it's ever going to get adjusted so i see a lot of again a lot of the comments is is like oh well you know yeah the back glass the score is really teeny tiny because Because you're showing, and we pointed this out when we were first looking at the image of the 15.5 monitor, with you've got the entire back glass and then the score, and if you know Gottlieb Premier Tables, even in person, that score display was teeny tiny. Now shrink it down even more, it's going to be microscopic. Practically eligible. Yeah, and are there ways of blowing up the image and doing all that? yeah that's up to you but it would be much better if arcuda went to farsight and said hey make this a quick hit button so that it automatically pops this way in case somebody wants it not that they have to pause the game go into the settings reframe the sizing you know i've got a number of buttons on the front of that cabinet they could probably in-game repurpose one to actually like control the dmd display right right that would be a good quality of life improvement for the software. But we're talking about Farsight here, who just doesn't seem to care about that. Well, Farsight's a contract player. They were contracted for the software. They deliver the software. They deliver it. The software went live. The software has been shipped. There's going to be basic support for making sure the software doesn't crash. But if you want improvements, guess what? New contract. You've got to pay that. Or you've got to pay more. Right. This is essentially the ship build that you agreed upon in the contract or more likely this is the shift build that you were told you were getting in the contract and i would just point out stern pinball arcade as a classic example stern pinball arcade on pc the interface is verging on unusable it's terrible it is absolutely just probably the worst and this is this is and dog shit's a polite way of putting it chris Well, we're a polite show.
    18:18
    Yeah, it is the worst software interface I've ever used in a PC game. It is that bad. Now, conversely, when they put it out on the Switch, they made massive improvements that made the interface really, really better. Good. In so many ways. and I was like, oh, so we're going to be getting this on PC, aren't we?
    18:48
    No. Nope. And why? Because that wasn't the contract. That wasn't the contract. It would have cost them extra money to do it. And, yeah, geez. So the other thing that was popping up with these reviews, and, again, I'll send you over to Retro Ralph's direction. He did a whole breakdown on the difference between solenoids and transducers. which are essentially speakers, right? Yeah. And the best way that I can almost equate it to after talking to him via messaging and stuff. So in my cabinet here, I have Xbox 360 Rumble Motors.
    19:35
    Yep. Now, although they're not speakers, they still work in waves, right? Just like a speaker would. Yes. You can feel the rumble, and you can feel the vibration, but it's not a hit like a solenoid does. No, it's a build-up, build-down wave. So you've got this sweeping pattern, right? Yeah. Right. And I've got to believe, so when people are asking, what's the difference between a solenoid and a transducer, I've got to believe that's the difference of the sensation. It's not that the rumble doesn't work with the Ad Games cabinet, that it can't work, and that it's going to feel false. No, it might feel perfectly fine. What's interesting, when you look at the underside, I think Doug is the one that showed the underside, they carved out the wood, and that speaker is right up against the plastic underneath your hands.
    20:27
    Oh. I mean... Right where that game's handle is with the control panel. Yeah, they pretty much, it looks like, are putting that speaker through as thin of a material as possible to be vibrating on your hand to get that sensation. So you're basically having all the, it's basically like essentially turning the speakers up to 10 and having that all in your face rather than having a nice balanced array of speakers around you delivering subtle differences in vibration and tone. Well, and the reason why I think they did it is because again, it's a rumble in there going through three quarter inch MDF wood. It's hard to feel that.
    21:08
    Yes, it doesn't. You could probably do it if you put big stonking speakers in there, but we're talking about bill of materials. I actually asked Ralph if he thought of a way that I could put, because he wound up doing an entire episode, and it was putting this subwoofer-like one in there, into the arcade one-up cab,
    21:29
    which he said it basically got obnoxiously loud. But that it worked really well for him. And I was like, I wonder if it would do good to put something like that in here. Unfortunately, everything is controller-based. It's not audio-based. Yeah. But I'm like, that'd be kind of cool to be able to... You basically need to connect it up to your card, your computer, your sound card, your computer, and run the sound through there with a pass-through headphone adapter or something. So you're actually... You could do it, but it'd be a bit of a trip. It'd be more wires to connect. more wires no you've already got enough barriers to wanting to plug that thing in and play pinball on anyhow so you know yeah and then and then one of the one of these also mentioned this is the biggest bunch of bs i believe that solenoids would wear out after in less than a year if you were doing daily play what so let me get this straight so somebody said out there that solenoids are going to die after a year based on what evidence um based off of apparent life cycles of solenoids based off of a sheet of paper that gave stats i think so when we're looking at solenoids that are not flipper mechanisms um in arcade machines think of the solenoids that you use in the namco point bank guns right now those things if you ever have one of those guns apart which i have um they are a very different solenoid to what you get in a pinball machine they they're basically all hold winding um they are very large for what they do um and the mechanism in them is such that they don't have the problem with um the the backstop in the coil the backstop and the the plunger end on a coil is the thing that will make a solenoid fail and seize up because of the burring of the end of the rod this thing's basically a slide through rod with the stop at the end of the solenoid so very again if you haven't looked inside the pinball machine you won't know what i'm talking about but it looks very much like a matched solenoid that just pops up drops down has no bottom to it or has a soft bottom with like a rubber ring at the bottom so as far as things that will actually wear out on this the only thing that's going to wear out is maybe the rubber bit at the end where it goes back to rest. Like these solo noises that are to fire and fire and fire and not die. Because these are, again, Ralph showed it. It's a little box. He popped open the cover. Oh, yeah. And, you know, it is firing and it is hitting a stop at the end. Yeah. You know, that's what's making the thwack. you know it's not a giant coil or anything it's obviously some other mechanism it needs to be big no right so what you're talking about so my assumption is correct in that it's not like a regular flipper coil with a backstop it's like a it's like a traveling pin basically with a spring load on it i should see if i can look it up and and find it find it for you i mean this is this is generally how that type of solenoid works Like the ones that are designed to actuate something, they have a backstop on them because they need a backstop. The backstop is the stop or the rest position for the coil. So for those ones that need to stop at a particular point and then travel to a particular point, that's why you have backstops on them, like flippers and things like diverter ramps and stuff like that with a definite sort of engaged and disengaged position. but things like feedback solenoids like this match solenoids are the same um they don't need that they just need to activate make a whack noise or like hit a thing and then drop you'll find the same mechanism or this isn't technically true but um because pop bumpers do technically have a stop point in them in the bracket but um they work in a similar way but um they're i guess pop bumper solenoids and mechanisms are a little bit like a flipper because they have a definite stop point otherwise the ring would just continue through the play field and you'd get some problems so yeah match solenoids and stuff like that they um they don't need a stop point and that's the point that wears out or makes the the actual flipper rod wear out so i'm calling bullcrap on a solenoid wearing out after a year um frankly i'm getting it up right here let's see oh here we go here's a good i'm going to share my screen here with you and uh you'll be able to take a look ah ralph yes we're using your video sorry um there it is so the solenoid is there at the bottom that is in the arcade one-up cab and you can see the little bracket that it hits up against to give you a thwack yes and you'll see that at the end there is basically no stop on it it's just a um a coil with a little split ring on it that retains a spring in place and the essentially the backstop is at the front rather than the back the backstop is that bracket that you see hitting um up against the the front of the coil so there's not going to be any problems with that particular actuator burring up inside the um the coil body which is that rectangular metal body there um so So I don't see why that wouldn't last for longer than a year. And what we do know is even if the person claiming that this is a fact is right and this lasts for less than a year, Mel has already confirmed that it's very easy to get in there and switch things out. Could you switch back to that picture again? Of course, I closed it. Okay. I was a little over-eager. So there'll be a way that those things are connected inside the cabinet, and you can guarantee it's just going to be a plug, like a Molex plug or something similar. So if it dies, unplug it, screw another one in, you've got another allegedly year of enjoyment out of the solenoid. Even still, I can't believe that it would only last a year. I mean, if that was the case, you wouldn't be finding 30, 35-year-old pinball machines with original solenoids still functioning. No. Well, you wouldn't. Because, well, the thing is that those machines, you know, the solenoids in them, you need to maintain them, obviously, as we all know with pinball. So, you know, they do have disposable parts in them. They are the coil end brackets and the rods and sleeves. They're really the things you need to replace at all times with pinball machines. But these solid state, these are essentially like solid state solenoids. Yeah. In fact, they're designed for repetitive use, and they're not designed like a flipper mechanism, which is it's designed to wear because of the way it's designed. I used design way too much then.
    28:54
    But looking at that picture that you showed, these things are essentially like a dedicated, purpose-built solenoid actuator. They're not actually a solenoid, traditional solenoid. They're actually an actuator. So they're built in a different way. They function in a different way to a regular solenoid. So they're designed to be used over and over again and cycle over and over again. And if you have a look at the size, the reason why I was going to say you have a look at the size of those solenoids, if RK1A announce at CES that they're going to be doing more gun shooting games, which you could probably expect they will because they seem to be really popular, you can expect to see that package, that solenoid package inside a point blank gun. or that package inside a time crisis gun. Right. Because that's what they're going to be using to give that tack, tack, tack feedback. You won't see the slide mechanism like you see on the Namco guns because they're really expensive. But you will feel that tack, tack, tack feedback inside the gun. And that solenoid is going to be what's delivering that. But it's going to be redesigned. It won't be in a big box. It will be just in the actual slide of the gun because it's small enough to be inside the slide of the gun. So that's my call there. That's what they're going to be using inside their light guns in future. So my call to...
    30:14
    Well, basically to the two reviewers that I know that are your bigger name, P-dubs, Doug at CoolToy, do me a favor, please. Please focus on the software for a moment. Do some comparing between that software that is in your AtGames cab and the software that is available through Pinball Arcade. Because I'm not going to have an AtGames cab. it but it's just not gonna it's not in my budget at all um so but i really want to know i want to i want a review that's purely about the software and the differences and why it would make more sense or why you would want to have that in at games how is an improvement over just staying the standard android yeah um especially since i mean because i can put pinball arcade into cabinet mode or not cabinet mode but into vertical screen mode it's not the arcuda mode which some people were able to buy the or and have bought the arcuda software and are playing that in cabinet mode so that's why i want to know is it just a port of the arcuda software is it somehow different the only way to know that is by comparing screenshots so the only way you're going to find out whether it's a port of the acuda cabinets to have someone who actually knows what the CUDA build looks like, play it. Because, you know, otherwise, they're not going to be knowing what they're looking for. You got a point there, too. All right, let's move on.
    31:41
    Something else that I... Look, I spent a lot of time watching YouTube over the holiday. And I kind of stumbled across something that I went, ooh, wait a second. And I think I'd known about it in the back of my head, but I'd never actually watched it in practice and being done. And that is these things called hardtops for actual pinball machines.
    32:09
    Oh, yeah. You know about the hardtops. I do. So for those that don't know about hardtops, a hardtop is basically a 1 32nd of 7 inch piece of plastic that has all the art printed on it from your particular cabinet. And it's got an adhesive on the back, and you stick that thing down on top of your playfield and have a perfectly glass smooth surface, perfect cabinet art.
    32:42
    The adhesive is not going to be moving around on your, you know, at all and give you lots of life to this. And it is costing... It's basically like doing a full playfield restoration, but without having to do the art touch-up. Exactly, without having to do the art touch-ups. And for a fraction of the price of buying a CPR, a brand new playfield, which is usually going to run you about $800, $850, these are going to run you, looking at the site right now, $315, $325 for them.
    33:16
    So, of course, I went to their website and decided to look up the two tables that I have. And I've never shown this on the podcast,
    33:25
    but I've got my firepower. Right? Yeah. And I have the play field right here, folks. Yeah. So I'm going to show you a little bit of what I'm dealing with in a second. Let's flip this over to Jared so that we can do a more surprise reveal.
    33:46
    For those who know Firepower, it's got a very busy planet in the middle of it. And, well, it's sort of, yeah, it's a bit of a dog to try and repair. It's so detailed in the middle there. Just a little bit, so let me get my microphone up here,
    34:08
    because I've got to be able to stand and do this. All right, here we go. You ready? Yeah. There's firepower.
    34:16
    Yeah. As is usual. Oh, man. I've got the wires coming in. As is usual, the middle of the play field gets rather hammered. Hammered. And that is not the easiest paint job in the world to try and replace. And if you'll notice, my upper area is really hammered. Oh, it's hammered. Part of that is my doing because I needed to smooth out the inserts and repaint the red lasers.
    34:46
    Yeah. if we keep on going down. Now, you'll notice I have nice bright white because I have done painting on this. Yes, that's the first thing I do when I get a play field. I did all of that white around the pop bumpers. I redid all the lettering in a nice bright white.
    35:03
    Yeah, that looks really good. So I've done quite a bit of work on it, but it's these black areas with the wood showing that is an absolute mess. Oh, God, you should see my Force 2 play field. chris like i've had to do some touch up on that for the because it was down to bare wood in a fair few places and uh i can't color match and i i i got something that was as close as possible to the blue that i thought it was and i'm really quite right by what you know what i'm going with it and so this is a new blue it's on the playfield so i've done a lot of a lot of work on it but i've also gotten to the point where i'm just like okay do i just put on the final coat of clear because I've cleared it, sanded, cleared, and then done the painting, and then cleared that, and then I put on water slide decals.
    35:55
    They didn't go down all that great. There was a little bit of bubbling. I don't think the clear was going to make them nice and clear. So now I'm contemplating peeling all those and hand lettering all the inserts. Not easy. I'm looking at particularly that font, which is like a digital number font. It is a digital number font.
    36:18
    I'm confident in my abilities to be able to do that if I can use a paint pen. To which if anybody out there has done paint pens, let me know what you used.
    36:32
    Yeah. Because I've heard some people using acrylic. I've heard some people using oil-based, and I don't know which. It depends on what your top coat is going to be. So what are you using on your top coat? It's going to be two-part auto-clear.
    36:47
    Okay, then you don't use acrylic. You use enamel paints. You don't mix oil with water because it doesn't mix. So, yeah, you're going to get crazing, bubbling, and all sorts of bad stuff happening if you do. Right. So you stick with the one. I don't want any of that. So this is, once again, I got to the stalling point. You know what the biggest stall is? Is I don't want to have to, I don't want to put the wiring harness back on. oh yeah yeah that's beyond belief that it just sits there i've got it on a piece of cardboard all you know like how they told you to just slide off put it over to the side it's quote unquote easy you know easy to do yeah and and i watch these repair videos of what people do and and i just go yeah it's easy to do if you've been doing this a while and you can identify parts just like that whereas me i'm going to be like what is that particularly as you haven't done it For like two years. Longer. Yeah. You know, I'm even having that trouble with the Force 2 that I've got. I haven't, like, depopulated the top of the playfield so I can actually do the art touch-ups on it and, you know, eventually run my Super Cheap Auto color spec over the top of my Isoscienate free stuff.
    38:01
    But, like, it's been a while, and it's been over a year since I depopulated the playfield, So I'm going to be piecing this thing back just based on the size of the wire forms and stuff like that when I get back and do it. I did take pictures, but they're a year ago. I'm going to have to go all the way back in my photo album for a year ago and try and find them. And I didn't baggy things the way that you're supposed to baggy them. And, you know, the hard way. There's a lot of headache that's going to come with that. But here's the thing. I feel like with my painting that I'm close.
    38:41
    It looks pretty good. Like, it's what I call player condition at the moment. Right. And if I did get enamel paints and did a job on it, obviously it's not going to look perfect.
    38:57
    And, you know... But it's going to look better than bare wood, let's be serious. Right, right. It's going to have some color on them. Yeah. But then, like I said, I started watching these Hardtop videos. So,
    39:08
    here's the Hardtop website. And look at that. They have Firepower. And look at how vibrant all of those colors are looking. It's just like, it looks so different to yours because it doesn't have all the fade on it. Right, it doesn't have the yellowing.
    39:29
    It's the true colors. That black, you know, is nice and black. it is gloss shiny so shiny yeah so shiny and the what people have been saying is that it's um they've never the thing has never played that way when you know when they're done the ball is almost too slick and too too fast on it but on a table like firepower that's kind of the whole point um yeah it's it's not bad to have it like that because well the flippers and everything on that table they're not strong i've played one in real life and even with brand new flippers and assemblies and everything yeah having a hard time getting out the top like it's not easy so the advantage is i don't have any ramps on this because apparently if you have ramps you got to account for that 30 seconds of an inch height difference and it throws off all the geometry of everything you have to do micro adjustments on everything too like even on Scoops? Yeah, because even on scoops where it's shooting out, you think about the clearance tolerances. If it's just that much smaller, the ball might start hooking as it's coming up. Again, I don't have any of that on firepower, so it's not an issue for me. So that would be easy.
    40:43
    Here's where it gets scary. In order for you to get the best surface possible... You've got to shave off all that paint, Chris. Oh, you shave it down to the wood. You make that thing as smooth as possible with an orbital sander so that every single insert is exactly the same level. It's the entire thing. You're starting with bare wood. Yeah, it's basically a white wood. You've got yourself a white wood, so you either do it or you do it, basically. Which is why I'm like, oh, my God.
    41:14
    Do I go that route or do I just try and finish this? And I'm almost thinking of just finishing this up and being good with this one being what it is. Because I don't necessarily know that this is a table that I will keep.
    41:36
    Well, look, I'd put it this way. For the long run. If you were not going to keep the table, I would do it on this one. If I were not going to keep the table. yes if you are not going to keep the table yeah but i don't want to invest the money in something that i'm just going to ditch what you've got to sell for a lot more if you do like if it's got a really good play field on it and i mean you're doing all the work on the mechanicals and everything like that you sell it first timer yeah well you know it will it flip yes yeah the play field look brand new that's gonna add in this market that we're in at my well i'm speaking from australia's perspective it's ridiculous the price they're asking for pinball at the moment um but you know you you probably need to like like with anything look at your cost of restoring which you know you don't want to look at because it's it's it's horrible to think of how much it would cost to actually restore more but like on the raw parts alone like how far are you in what would adding this to the build cost and what would the final price you could command be? Because everyone knows that Firepower has junk playfields if they're not restored because of the problem with the center planet. So if you can offer one that's basically completely factory fresh brand new playfield, you're going to have a good time. Because something else I have to factor in, I don't have the right soundboard. I have to buy a whole new soundboard if I want to have the... Because I don't have speech on mine. All I've got is the the sounds um oh right right oh because you don't have the talk and talk right because somebody had put the wrong you know had swapped out and replaced it um you know the back glass is pretty good but it's not pristine so that's why i'm that's what i'm saying is if i'm gonna if you put down this beautiful beautiful play field play field and everything else on it is still just standard like my plastics are a mess um i would need to buy all new cpr plastics see what i'm saying okay well putting it that way yeah don't invest the money but you've got another table in the wings there don't you chris i do and so my other table and gee look what they have it also i have an eight ball look and the problem with my eight ball deluxe is all down here. All my cue balls have massive, well, I shouldn't say massive, but a lot of cracking in it. Oh, right. They've got a lot of... They feel smooth, but obviously the dirt has gotten into that, and so it's a mess down there, and there's no way I would bother repainting that.
    44:15
    It's too hard to color match as well. Yeah, the rest of the play field that I have is pretty decent. My plastics are pretty good on this, especially since this is the table that my friend uh laser cut me new clear plastics that all go along this edge here and all go along this edge so my plastics are actually quite good okay so this is the one you do it on this is the one that i'm thinking that i would yeah do it on if i were going to do it but again it comes back to do i have the guts to depopulate the playfield and sand it i know for a fact that I've seen Ed at the pinball shack here in Brisbane do it, and he's had a lot of success with the hard tops. Like he said lining them up isn as hard as you think because they give you very good instructions to actually do it So providing you done the work and you really given that play field a good level sanding um it going to be fine to do it but you've really got to put that work in like you've got to put the work into the play field and really really get in there with a orbital sander or like a mouth sander i just know before i can even think about it i gotta i actually have to finish firepower yeah do that first get a sleeping um but you know but i'm curious if anybody if any of you out there have dealt with uh painting on playfields uh again if you know of a particular brand of ink pen or paint pen um that has the colors of fiber i mean basically i'm only looking for it's they're probably married colors it's i'm the purple green blue and yellow and a good black um that i'm gonna be dealing with you know if it's something that you're able to buy off of amazon or if i just go over to michael's and you know buy from there i'm just curious to know what people actually use because i've seen some videos where guys are doing exactly that with paint pens but they blast so fast through what they're using that i can't identify it yeah yeah yeah i always have a problem with that too here because usually the brands that they use over in america we can't get here so we're flying blind as far as what we can actually get over here from a paint pen perspective i've got some paint pens here as well just just black white um and that's it um i have some i actually have sharpies i have used sharpies on um some of the gottlieb lenses like playfield lenses to re-put on the scores i'm gonna have to do that on um force 2 because i've had to pop out some of the lenses on Force 2 because they were just so bad. See, I heard that if you put clear coat over the top of Sharpie, it just goes... I did it on... I did it using the clear coat solution from Super Cheap over here. It didn't do that at all. So it was actually all right. Okay. And I will say that with the... So after, like with doing the hard top, after they sand the entire play field, you've got to spray clear on that and then you've got to polish up all your inserts and get them actually you probably polish them up first and then put the clear I imagine but you do put a coat of clear down and then you put the hard top on top of that I imagine there's two methods of putting hard top down you can float it or you can just go hardcore and just put it down um but yeah putting the clear over the top would allow you to float it but like i was noticing the guys that were doing they were just using rattle can clear so well yeah it wasn't doing the whole steal the play field basically it just needs to have a gloss surface so the adhesive can stick to it really well exactly exactly yeah so i was like okay good so i wouldn't have to deal with the two-part auto spray which is that's right a pain in the butt yeah exactly yeah so all right i actually watched the video on on the subject of restoration really quickly i watched the there's this really, really top quality restorer here in Australia who does it. And he used to go by the name of Savage Restorations. He's recently changed his name to his actual name. And he went through the process of what he does to actually clear and restore a play field. So I won't go into the literally 15 steps or more he does when he's doing a restoration, but he's essentially putting down like six layers of clear. If he's doing like a playfield that's completely stripped back, he will put about four layers of clear down just to seal the wear wood on the playfield.
    49:03
    So it will soak into any of the plank lines that are in the playfield. Then he'll sand that down to like beautiful, like you know using a thousand grit yeah get it really nice and flat and then he will put on six coats of automotive clear and with five minute intervals between each coat okay then he will let that cure then he will do any art touch up then he will put another six coats of clear down on top of this thing and let that cure and then he will do the polishing and everything like that so he's laying down 12 layers approximately of clear on these playfields and if you've ever seen the end quality of where he posted to facebook these playfields are glass they are incredible they're gonna have a depth to them oh they just look beautiful they look way better than the originals like he is an absolute artisan when it comes to playfield restoration and i go okay so if you're using 12 coats of clear essentially on your play fields i am really skimping on the amount of clear i'm putting down the play field so i'm going to try it this time with force 2 when i'm at the point where i'm going to clear it yeah i'm going to do i'm going to go through probably about three rattle cans of color spec to do it um but i'm going to do what he does i'm going to put six coats down five minute intervals between each one and i'm going to see what this thing looks like compared to Star Race, which looked pretty good at the end of it. I will say the one thing that one of the guys pointed out, and he said he learned the hard way after clearing it, he had to strip the entire play field again and start from scratch. Because what happened was he had a large insert with a decal on it, and he laid the clear coat down heavy, and that wound up pulling, you know, the surface tension pulled and totally distorted the lens and the decal. Oh, it did it. Or not, it wasn't the decal. No, it was just the lens. Anyway, it pulled, and so it looked like it had cracks in it, even though it didn't. And so what he had to do, what he discovered was you just put a really light flash coat clear down, let that cure,
    51:19
    and then you put your regular coats down because now it has, it's the same surface that it's pulling on. It's that whole surface clear. Rather than having clear with wood, plastic, wood, plastic, it now is universally a base layer of clear, and so everything can shrink and pull at the same level. That's a good tip. So do maybe two coats of clear, and then just leave it. It's literally a dusting. It's just a quick... Just enough so that it's dusted on there. let that sit for a day and cure and then go in and do your every five minute and build it up kind of stuff good tip alright who knew that we were going to talk real pinball we don't talk real pinball here do we Jared? sometimes we do it's pinball so we're going to talk about it it's fun let's dip into the other subject that is the annual tradition here or my annual tradition Jared just gets to listen that we teased last time. That is, yeah, every year I make a list of all the movies that I watched throughout the entire year. And the list is only of things that are brand new to me, first time watching in that given year. So it might be a slightly older movie, but if it's the first time I've seen it, then it goes on to the list. And so this year, Jared, I actually watched 86 movies.
    52:47
    86? in a pandemic 2020 lockdown period. That's pretty impressive. Of which only one did I see in the movie theater, which is sad.
    52:58
    And you may think, oh, yeah, well, I saw a movie in the theater, you know, back when... No, I saw it in November.
    53:06
    Right. Because I really wanted to see Tenet in the theater, so I saw Tenet in the theater. That was one you needed to see in the cinema, for sure. So, and of that list, 16 of these movies were specifically made for Netflix.
    53:24
    Right. I watched eight documentaries. I don't watch documentaries. So, yeah, it was a different year for viewing. Yeah. So I always make my best list, and it's not in any particular order, typically. And I have a good list and a worse list and a disappointing list. There's all sorts of lists that I break this down by. But I do got to say, of my best list, usually at least three or four are movies that I will add to my collection of movies via physical copy. This year? Okay.
    54:00
    None. And it really bums me out. It's like all the movies I was most looking forward to got pushed.
    54:08
    So we just need that 2020 B that we're talking about early in the show. That's what I'm saying, right? so I'll just rattle these off real quick I don't know how many of these you've actually seen Jared but on my best list I have Yesterday which was that Beatles Groundhog Day basically where the guy wakes up or he doesn't wake up but everybody's forgotten who the Beatles are except for him oh yeah I remember that was it good?
    54:34
    it's a very satisfying it's not Groundhog Day it's not time travel but it kind of touches upon some of those things and it uh i don't know i'd imagine it's like i'm just getting my notebook out so i can make some uh some little notes about what i should be adding to my um watch queue so yesterday it's almost like when i was watching it's like it's like you go back in time and then you know everything and you know that basically you are the you're doing what the uh the group that you idolize do and you're writing all their songs and that's what i'm saying it's not time travel, but it is if you went back in time with all the knowledge that you know today and gave everybody that knowledge 50 years earlier. Yeah, essentially like, let's give everyone the iPhone 30 years in the past. Yeah, when everybody else is rocking their Nokia 9600s. Yeah, you've got your touchscreen phone. Alright, so these are basically listed in the order that I saw them. Let's put it to you that way, not what's best. Ford versus Ferrari, which is uh if you're at all into racing or car culture it's pretty dang good um and then there is a jojo rabbit which is one of those where it's amazing when you can make hitler and world war ii funny without being sympathetic like without saying oh and it's all okay no it's still pointed and it's still pointed and aimed squarely at what was wrong with the situation but it's also very absurdist humor um okay right cool i've got this uh documentary called the painter and the thief which is crazy in that it's this gal has her the epitome of her life's work on display in a gallery of paintings and the you know what She considers her masterpiece her best work sitting in the window, and it gets stolen. Oh, no. And it is caught on camera, and they're actually able to find who stole it.
    56:50
    And she could care less about prosecuting the guy. She just wants her painting back. But he was so high that he barely remembers that he even did the crime, let alone where he stashed it. and if he stashed it or if it had gotten sold. And while you would normally think that the person would be like, well, he gets what he deserves, get out of my life, she actually invites him into her life and says, here's how you owe me. You're going to be my subject for painting now.
    57:23
    Oh. And he winds up almost becoming a muse to her. She winds up painting him, and he starts rehabilitating, and it just gives you all sorts of feels.
    57:35
    It's like one of those where you go, oh my God, there is good in humanity. There's one, this one was, my wife really liked it and I thought it was really quite good too. It's called Enola Holmes.
    57:49
    Enola Holmes. Enola. So it's Sherlock Holmes' little sister. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. That's pretty dang good.
    58:00
    There's Hamilton. I don't do Broadway musicals. I don't do musicals. Nothing but music. Damn good. All right. Hamilton on the list.
    58:14
    There's Beastie Boys story. Oh, yeah. Beastie Boys story is the two surviving members of the Beastie Boys up on stage, basically doing a this is our life. starting from square one of when the beasties formed going all the way to present day basically and it's not a powerpoint presentation but it's kind of like a ted talk um oh yeah imagery going on up above and stuff like that and gives you just an absolutely fascinating insight to their whole creative process and what was going on during any given album and you know what was going on their lives and were they aware of the controversies they were creating and were they buying into it or were they you know self-aware and going hee hee and letting it happen i mean it's quite quite good on that end um plus it's good you need to be a fan you reckon of the bc boys get value out of it i don't think you need to be a fan per se i think you'll become a fan afterwards um because you'll realize the variety of styles that were in their music um yeah i mean if you only know them from you know their license to ill album then you'll you'd be quite surprised at where they finish up basically oh cool so that was as a minor aside to that if you like to see how creative processes with musicians um happen you should definitely tune into song exploder on netflix i just saw the one with uh nine inch nails of course yeah so that's been a podcast i've been listening to for, geez, I think it's about three years now, longer probably. And it is such a good podcast. And the fact that Harish Kesheway got the ability to turn this into a Netflix film is something that almost makes me want to go and get a Netflix subscription so I can watch it because he is very good at getting information out of artists about how they create processes. And it's fascinating to hear. Yeah. and then the uh the last one that made my list and i was quite surprised that this made my list because i thought it was going to be just stupid dumb movie called crawl crawl crawl is basically about uh it takes place in florida a hurricane is happening girl go a daughter goes to check up on her dad at his house because he's one of these people that was like i'll ride out the storm and she's like, you may not know this one. And gets into the house, can't find him, winds up finding him downstairs in the crawl space underneath the house, trapped by an alligator.
    60:52
    Trapped by an alligator? Yes. Okay. There's a big beastly alligator that washed into there. And as the hurricane progresses, flooding starts happening and the underside of the house starts filling up. and as it fills up, that gives the alligators more ability to maneuver and go around. So it's a little bit like that terrible shark boy movie where the shark circles around the island. What was it called? I think you know the one I'm talking about, right? Where there was a swimmer, she went out to... Oh, the surfer. Yes, I know which one. I love that movie. Yeah, it's really suspenseful. Where she's floating on a whale and then once you have to swim over to a buoy and live on the beach for a little while. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the end of that movie is implausible, but the rest of the movie is fine. But satisfying all the same. Satisfying all the same, yeah. It was good, yeah. I can't remember what the heck that one was. That one was... The Shallows? The Shallows, that's right, yes. Yeah.
    62:01
    And I think that was... Was that Blake Lively? I think it was. Could be. That's the girl. So it's similar in that vein in that you're stuck, you're trapped, and you've got nature. I thought it was going to be ridiculously stupid, and instead it was ridiculously tense.
    62:18
    Oh, that's good. It's done really well. It's obviously a low-budget movie, but they hid the budget. They didn't overextend. They didn't do dodgy CG.
    62:30
    It's just particle filmmaking at its best, basically. and then I was shocked to find out that the whole thing was filmed up in Canada, nowhere near water on a set, who would have thought so those are the best ones you're probably wondering where the heck is Tenet and why didn't it make your best list yeah, Tenet wound up making my good list look, it has really awesome action sequences there's no doubt about that and it's really good filmmaking but the truth of the matter is I watched it a second time here at home with subtitles on hoping to clarify things and truth be told they just don't do a good job of explaining what it is you're actually watching. With subtitles on?
    63:23
    Yeah, I put the English subtitles on because the movie has terrible sound design. There's a lot of talking you know, like we're Yeah, that's true. There's a lot of muffled, and not only that, they use... My subwoofer was getting a massive workout. The low-end frequency that is constantly pumping drowns out a lot of the voice. Ah, that was a problem, right. Yeah. So they've sort of done the sound design a little bit wonky in it. Yes. And Nolan has said, you're just kind of supposed to feel... You're supposed to feel the movie and understand it that way. and I do, while the action sequences are playing, I do kind of get it, but I also want it to be like Inception where afterwards I can really have deep discussions about what the heck is going on because I understood how the process worked. And here, the process is just labyrinthian.
    64:19
    This is one that I also went deliberately to see in the cinema. And knowing, I didn't go in looking at any spoilers or trying to understand the movie before I went in cold. And I enjoyed it at face value.
    64:38
    I do have the opportunity to watch it again, but I don't know if I will. Yeah. Because I think the end,
    64:48
    like the way that they describe the events in the big scene at the end, I kind of, essentially it kind of explains all the bits in the beginning for you. Anyhow, it doesn't leave you guessing a lot there's not a lot to really try and guess about which was different to Inception because Inception really felt like you had to piece it together yourself and that's why they had flowcharts about how the three layers work so you can understand it this didn't really feel like you had to understand anything at the end of the movie what I want to understand is how does it actually work oh so how does right the whole right and the how it works is never explained well um inception did a really good job of explaining the how it works yeah it's such as all about chemical like brain and chemical right control but this is different this is very much science fiction yeah um so anyway whereas yeah tenant made the good list uh other movies that made the good list i'll just rattle through these real quick uh doctor sleep which is a sequel to uh the shining Parasite which was last year's best picture I think it was more hype than deserving 1917 which was that basically single take World War movie which although I appreciated the technical aspect of it after a while I was like just put a cut in please well it was suspending my disbelief of really all this is that close to each other I don't think so then there was uh knives out which is you know if you're into that agatha christie kind of uh thing pretty dang good um invisible man there was the first movie of the pandemic that i watched and again another movie where they did what they could with the best use of the budget that they had okay and it wouldn't have gotten better with a bigger budget so okay that's right yeah they the right amount of money. Exactly. The Old Guard, that was a Netflix movie with Charlize Theron. Trial of the Chicago 7. If you're into dialogue that's witty and snappy and you like Aaron Sorkin, there you go because he directed it. Okay. There's a documentary called Boys State which is, would be completely uninteresting to you, Jared. It's all, I actually attended it as a kid. It's basically high school juniors get sent to state capitals in each of the 50 states and play government for a week. Yeah, I've seen that on Apple TV+. It's a TV Plus subscription. Yes, that's what I saw it on, and it gave me PTSD.
    67:37
    And then this falls into the similar category of Crawl where it knows exactly what it is which is a cheeseball B movie but does it really well it's called Unhinged it's with Russell Crowe it's basically a really bad what happens when road rage goes bad yeah I saw that actually but the thing that I liked about it was something would happen and I'd start yelling at the screen going well if you would just do this and i'll be damned if the character didn't just do that i went oh okay thank you and then and then things still went wrong and i went okay but you know what at least you weren't an idiot you tried you know you gave it a go yeah i saw that movie floated around and i thought yeah that almost looks like something you get your popcorn out for and have a bit of It's totally popcorn. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
    68:30
    And then, trying to see real quick here. I'm going to ignore the disappointing, and I'm going to go straight to, I don't know, do we need to talk about the worst?
    68:44
    Let's not talk about the worst. Let's go to my, I know, we're going to go to my special awards. Yeah, I love these. Because I always do the special awards. All right. Yeah, I love them. So here's the special awards. and these don't change. These are the same special words every year. It's just what movie fits into there. So, movie I knew would suck, but I watched anyways. Gemini Man and The Dark Tower.
    69:06
    All right. Gemini Man being that Will Smith movie and The Dark Tower being the Stephen King adaption that they did not adapt well at all.
    69:17
    Avoid, in other words. Yes, avoid. Movie I thought would suck but didn't. Well, Crawl. I already talked about that. And then I just watched The New Mutants, which is that X-Men adjacent movie. It felt more like a TV pilot because it's, again, a very small scale, small budget. But it worked for what it was. Okay.
    69:38
    Let's see. Movie I regret paying for. Well, the only movie I paid for this year was Tenet, so it wins by default. So you really didn't like it enough? No, it's just the only one that I paid for, so it wins by default. Oh, really? Okay. Oh, Joker. That's a tough one to have to put in. Cause I don't, well, yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, um, and then let's see what else we got here. We have, ah, yes. The curse you shaky cam award because there's nothing so much as like watching a movie that is just doing this the entire time during action sequences and, and cutting every three seconds. And well, it's not surprising. Yeah.
    70:20
    And it's not surprising that a, uh, A Michael Bay movie won this. It's Six Underground, which is just a load of crap.
    70:27
    Right. There's the Maybe I Just Don't Get It Award, and that would be going to Mank, which is the movie about Mankiewicz, who wrote the screenplay for Citizen Kane.
    70:42
    And unless you're a Citizen Kane junkie, a lot of this is just going to go right over your head, and they don't do a good job of explaining all of it. They just assume you know all of it. It's not a bad movie. I mean, I found it watchable, but it's also just like, is this going to be over anytime soon?
    71:02
    Like, is watching the watch... Are we done? Yes. Movie I'm glad I turned off less than 30 minutes into. Critter's Attack. I didn't last 10 minutes. It looked like a student production.
    71:16
    Do you remember the movie? Do you remember the movie Critters? Probably not. Vaguely. It was out around the same time as Gremlins. Yes. And it was these little tiny fur balls that were nasty and they came from outer space. Yeah, well, they made a direct-to-video movie just this last year called Critters Attack. And I swear, student productions have more polish and quality to them. They went to a college campus and there wasn't a single extra walking around.
    71:45
    Oh, what? That's what I'm saying. There was no money on this one. Right. Movie I wished I turned off but didn't.
    71:54
    The Hustle. The Hustle is Rebel Wilson and Anne Hathaway, and it's a remake of Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. I love Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Unfortunately, they didn't change nearly anything, and I'm sorry, but Anne Hathaway is not Michael Caine.
    72:16
    Yeah. She doesn't come off as smirmy. You need... It just didn't play. Well, that was a depressing award. That goes to Uncut Gems. That's the Adam Sandler movie.
    72:32
    Okay. He plays a jeweler who has a massive gambling habit and is basically paying for one gambling debt while pulling out a loan for another gambling. So while it was depressing, was it good? It was good. It was just a bummer of an ending. Oh, okay.
    72:54
    Let's see. The You're Not a Franchiser Yet Award. Because there's nothing like watching a movie that then it ends and you go, really? So what was I watching? The prologue?
    73:06
    Right. You don't have a sequel guaranteed, so stop it. This goes to a Chinese movie called Double World. Okay. that has all sorts of dubious effects and grand production value and apparently it went it was a victim of the pandemic and netflix scooped it up right so it was about to die but netflix said now we'll take it yeah they're doing that don't they like they do rescue a lot of films like uh the old series that you know commercial networks won't pick up and yet they do amazingly well on Netflix. Yeah. Like the one with the chest. So this was a movie that was literally just apart from the fact that if you were a female character, yeah, you're dead.
    73:54
    Right, okay. They were merciless on that. But just as it would seem like it was getting to go, it ended. And I was like, well, you didn't even end. You just like, the next portion should be happening and you just said, yeah, we're going to stop the movie here. You went, nah. Yeah. Next time. And then the other movie that is the old guard from Netflix because by the end of it, it tells a complete story, but again, you realize at the end of it, we just saw the prologue. The real meat is what follows. Right. And they set up the villain for the next one and I was like, as it was being set up, I went, oh, you're not going to pay this off at all. I know you're stringing this one along for the next one. Yeah, that kind of bummed me. Got to get those people in for the next subscription round. Yeah.
    74:47
    This is a fun one. The I Don't Even Remember You Award. Because inevitably when I see all these movies and I look at the list, there's a couple of titles that I'll be like, What's that?
    75:00
    I got to go to Google and figure out what that is. Right. So sure enough, that happened with three movies this year. One of them was called The Laundromat, which i barely remember but like uh uh oh god what's her name she's like america's uh the the best actress that we have um street barrel street it's a steven sonnenberg movie me i just i don't remember i'm i couldn't tell you what it's about even after looking it up recently that's all right okay that's pretty bad yeah um another movie called in the shadow of the moon which was mildly fantasy had some time travel elements in it and i kind of vaguely remember a scene or two from it but yeah i had to look it up and go yeah i really don't remember you either and then there was a french film called lost bullet that was an action movie and had driving in it and that's about all i can tell you cool so uh and then we have and then we have the uh this one was not as all that exciting as it was in years past but the yes this is the first time i've gotten around to seeing an award in other words the movie's been out for a long time and I only just now saw it. The first one is called Limitless, which is a Rand Reynolds movie where he gets Ben Kingsley's mind placed inside of him so that Ben Kingsley can continue living.
    76:49
    But then he starts remembering his past. Ah, right. I don't know. But he also has, like, powers of some sort. I don't know. It's kind of... It was interesting. Not a bad watch. The thing that shocked me, though, was there's this film maker who just goes by one name. His name is Tarsam,
    77:08
    who does incredible visual films. He did The Cell, and he did The Immortals, and what else did he do? He's done some really trippy visual-looking films, and they're always fascinating to watch. And I get to the end of the movie, and his name popped up as the director, and I went, what?
    77:31
    So the best I can figure was he was in director, jail and they went okay so you have to do a movie for us direct to jail and just show us that you can actually make a regular movie and this was his regular movie and then the uh the other one that i saw was uh jodorowsky's dune which is a documentary about uh this director from the 60s named Jodorowsky, who was off his rocker nuts, and wanted to adapt Dune, having never read the book.
    78:10
    Okay. Which is a good place to start. I would have thought that probably, when you think you're doing a movie, you probably start with reading a book or some prior art with the movie. You know, you would think.
    78:23
    I think somebody gave him the abridged quick rundown of it, and he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I want that.
    78:29
    But he's one of these guys who is, he's an artist and wants to give an experience and who cares if it completely bastardizes what the material is coming from so long as you have an experience that makes you feel and affected you in some way. So on that respect, I'm happy that he didn't make the movie. interestingly enough though virtually the entire team he assembled went on to go work on alien okay that's uh interesting yes so other than him your script your your screenwriter your production designer your effects designer your Giger himself they were all on this movie they all went and then worked on Aliens apparently he also assembled this absolutely ginormous book because he storyboarded, painted, art directed every single scene ahead of time and then took this hard bound book to Hollywood to sell the movie.
    79:52
    Okay. Here's the thing. I think it scared a lot of the studios because they went, ooh, that's going to cost a pretty penny. Yeah, wow. All these sets you want me to make? Far out. Jeez. Right. Here's the other thing.
    80:04
    So many of the things that are in that book found their way into other movies. Really? For instance, his opening shot started at the far end of the cosmos and in a single take flew in, flew in, flew in, scope, scope, scope, scope, until eventually landing on Dune in a close-up of I don't know who.
    80:28
    The movie Contact did the exact shot in reverse. Right. Like the exact shot. Like storyboard exact. Yes. Because apparently, although I think they said that there were three copies of this book made, only one or two of them are known to exist still and they think that one of those books made the rounds because that's not the only bit from it there apparently are all sorts of bits from it that have found themselves their way into all sorts of science fiction movies is there like a is there like a website on there that documents all the scenes from this book no i don't think anybody has actually done because that would be a really interesting website yeah i think don't you think yeah so anyway i've i've got some a very thin list of movies that i have watched this year and it's pretty much in the last quarter of 2020 because i just said you know what i'm catching up on all the pop culture i missed in the last 10 years so some of that is even further than 10 years ago and i know that um you were shocked and appalled to hear that this year is the first year that i watched alien and aliens just terrible just terrible i know terrible but did you then go and play the the aliens in you know zen's aliens and go oh yeah yeah i totally get it now um and see this is the thing that i've been doing this year I've been using video games and pinball as an excuse to watch a thing, watch a franchise, so I can understand it better. I did it with Rick and Morty. I watched all the Rick and Morty episodes up to whatever it is, season four, so I could understand the pinball machine better. And that was well worth it because it's full of tropes from the show, and you need to really understand the show to get the value out of it. It's very funny when you do. and I think that was the main one that I decided to do and once I started doing that I thought you know what it would be really it would make sense that I go and watch these other ones as well just because and yeah I totally agree that watching Aliens definitely worthwhile if you enjoy if you haven't like me watched it like I don't know how and you want to get some more value out of the pinball machine and like this I now see the sound design, the actual way they've made that pinball machine is just so accurate to the movie. It is astounding.
    83:09
    I now know why it is your number one pick for tables in the genre. It is just perfectly executed from a pinball machine perspective.
    83:20
    I also watched Covenant as well and did that. On your recommendation, I haven't done Alien 3 and I don't think I will.
    83:32
    I think I've already watched Prometheus, which is sort of like the other side of Covenant, really, isn't it? So I think I've already seen that. I might watch it again just to refresh my memory. So I think I've got all the aliens covered now. But what I've been doing is I've got access to a friend's Plex server and I've been going through all the sci-fi. And I went and watched this movie called Battle Royale, which is a Japanese movie. Are you familiar with it? Yeah, it's essentially The Hunger Games. Yeah. It's pretty much what it is, but it's way more gruesome. Yes.
    84:11
    It's very odd, and I'm glad I watched it so I could see the genesis of what Hunger Games is, essentially. Yeah. But it was a weird movie because it was Japanese, and they're always a little bit oddball. They're a little oddball.
    84:25
    So, yeah. I watched the remake of what is the name of it you probably know it's an anime movie and it's the one where they have the big city in the sky and they have the robot in the end scene where they climb up the big tethered rope that holds the city in place and the big ring comes down and shreds the robot oh that's Battle Angel Leader I watched the remake of that loved it thought it was really good wait what do you mean a remake? the movie version of it that's not a remake of anything Alita as far as I know Alita was never an anime it was a manga a book but it's never been a movie to the best of my knowledge I saw the anime when I was younger it exists I remember that scene with the big the animated version of that thing sliding down the thing and that robot getting shredded like it's a thing definitely a remake so that was great I think they did it much better the remake felt really good to me and I think they did a great job on it so yeah that was great what else did I see that was good obviously all the Rick and Morty very glad I watched that it was awesome and I'm slowly working my way through you know I had to buy some stuff on Amazon and I hadn't taken advantage of a Prime subscription so I joined up for the 30 days just to do it and I've been going through their prime video and I'm almost tempted to go and watch the only series of AMH American Horror Story because I haven't seen that either so I don't know I know that's something that's close to you Chris I might have worked on a season or two it's only showing season one at the moment but I'm sure once I do season one, it'll show you the other seasons. So I'm thinking of it. Truthfully, the, the first season is good. Third season is good. Everything else after that.
    86:35
    And to me, the, the returns get after I learned by being there, learned how the show was made. Um, my enjoyment of it fell off a cliff because I realized that they're making it up as they go. Oh, right. okay and that's why suddenly plot lines are just dropped and interesting villains are just dropped because they didn't have faith in it and they decided to move on to something else so okay interesting but as a complete story the first season's good and the third season is good so they are they do it a little bit like stranger things in that they they sort of have a whole story per season and they follow it through the end that's good well that's i like that oh that's The other thing, Stranger Things, I watched this year as well for the first time ever.
    87:26
    Incredible. Yeah, loved it. Again, for the pinball, so I could understand it. Yeah, so it's been an interesting year watching. I've actually been able to sort of participate this year a bit more in the movies of the year than I normally had in the past. So it's been good. I will continue to do so.
    87:46
    Fantastic. Well, gang, we've... Wow, that was an extra long episode. We've got to slice that one up, Chris. Yep, I'm going to have to be slicing and dicing here.
    87:56
    But we've got interesting things in the works, folks. Interesting. We might be doing, real soon, something that some of you have been begging us to do for a long time. Yeah. Years.
    88:13
    We might actually have an entire episode dedicated to, drumroll, VR. yeah so yeah it's it's i think it's gonna be a thing it's gonna be a thing in 2020 is 2021 it's gonna be the year of the vr it's gonna be a thing and it's probably going to be a thing much sooner than you think it's going to be a thing for us to do yes yeah so that is what you can you can definitely look forward to that uh beyond that hey the year is wide open we're We're not sure what it's, obviously, what to expect, what it's bringing. But we've got our eyes wide open. We're ears to the ground listening. We've been probing, trying to find out information that you all would want to know. So it's just a matter of time. CES is happening this week virtually. I know that Arcade 1UP has some stuff that they're going to be announcing. We'll see if any of it involves Pitbull. highly unlikely other than wild rumor being that we might see the uh universal uh studios cab announced announced that would be nice that would be nice um would be even nicer as an aliens cab you know what if the universal studios one does well and like it's plastered with jurassic park stuff, then maybe that would open the doors up for aliens. Who knows? Yeah. One can hope.
    89:45
    That's right. So, anyway, that's the, you know, wish we could promise and tell you things that we're going to be doing for the new year, but, hey, we don't know. But, we'll be back. We'll be talking.
    89:59
    And as usual, we'll include Jared's favorite stuff. Stuff and things. Till next time, folks. Bye. Bye-bye.