Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Episode 8-The EM SCIENTIST- TAN MAN

THE PINBALL RESTORER’S PODCAST·podcast_episode·1h 11m·analyzed·Oct 27, 2021
Buzzsprout-9439484
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

EM expert Tanner discusses restoration philosophy, affordable collecting, and the EM Scorekeeper product.

Summary

Matt Listerud hosts Tanner Petsch ("Tan Man"), a Minnesota-based STEM teacher and EM pinball expert who developed the EM Scorekeeper, a device that preserves high scores on electromechanical machines. The episode focuses on Tanner's journey into EM restoration, his philosophy on machine preservation vs. modification, and the broader community dynamics around pinball collecting and restoration.

Key Claims

  • Tanner developed the EM Scorekeeper product to preserve high scores on electromechanical pinball machines which lose all data when powered off

    high confidence · Matt introduces Tanner's product early in episode; Tanner and Matt discuss EM limitations throughout

  • Tanner is a STEM teacher at elementary school level who brings pinball games into classrooms to teach circuit boards and electronics

    high confidence · Matt describes Tanner as 'STEM teacher' and 'by day...at elementary school'; Tanner confirms teaching work and summer restoration projects

  • EM games are more affordable than solid state games, making them the entry point for budget-conscious collectors

    high confidence · Tanner: 'EM games are the more affordable option. Early solid state is like your next tier.' Both hosts emphasize affordability repeatedly

  • Tanner acquired his first EM (Triple Action) for $350 at an estate sale after negotiating down from $1,300 asking price

    high confidence · Tanner describes estate sale negotiation in detail; same game at another estate sale was asking $1,300

  • Charlie runs Pinball Basement and reverse-engineers circuit boards with licensure from Planetary Pinball, including WPC 89 and 95 Williams boards

    high confidence · Matt provides detailed description of Charlie's company and board work; describes Charlie as local community resource

  • Tanner views himself more as a restorer and preservationist than a player, preferring the restoration cycle over extended gameplay

    high confidence · Tanner: 'I am more of a restorer and preservationist...they're works of art and I think I love just fixing them...I'm a teacher by day and at night I just like until 12 o'clock fix one'

  • Average people are intimidated by broken machines and won't attempt repairs, limiting the pool of potential buyers at estate sales

    high confidence · Tanner: 'the average person will not buy these...most people are horrifically intimidated by having to try and fix one'

Notable Quotes

  • “It's a sanity project. You just get away, have some brewskis and you fix something. It's a problem. You find a problem in a pin, you fix it and bring it back to life. It's one of the coolest feelings in the world.”

    Tanner Petsch @ ~09:30 — Core philosophy on restoration as therapeutic hobby, explains community appeal beyond gameplay

  • “I am more of a restorer and preservationist of these pins. They're works of art and I think I love just fixing them and looking at them just as much as playing them.”

    Tanner Petsch @ ~26:00 — Reveals Tanner's primary motivation—preservation over play, defines his role in community

  • “The internet is the greatest thing when you actually want to learn something. There are a lot of videos when you type in a game, videos come up.”

    Tanner Petsch @ ~35:00 — Emphasizes DIY learning resources as key enabler for amateur restorers

  • “I see rubbers that are dirty and I got to replace the rubbers...it's like elegant simplicity. You can use either one.”

    Tanner Petsch @ ~24:00 — Describes meticulous approach to restoration; invokes Jay Leno concept of 'elegant simplicity'

  • “Half of them were broken when I got them. I had to fix them...Where did you learn that? The internet is the greatest thing when you actually want to learn something.”

    Tanner Petsch @ ~37:00 — Addresses skepticism about self-taught restoration skills; normalizes learning via online resources

  • “You turn it on, GI comes on, that's it. You're like, oh, crap, here we go. Now I have to diagnose everything.”

    Tanner Petsch @ ~30:00 — Describes the diagnostic challenge and thrill of EM restoration; emphasizes the problem-solving appeal

  • “If I go to Tilt's, I'm there to drink some beers and maybe hang out with some friends...I don't know what I'm doing in any of these games. I'm new to solid state.”

    Tanner Petsch @ ~19:00 — Reveals preference for EM simplicity over solid state complexity in public venues; defines use-case differences

Entities

Tanner PetschpersonMatt ListerudpersonCharliepersonTodd TuckeypersonJeff MillerpersonRyan WengerpersonPhilpersonDrewperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Tanner Petsch has developed the EM Scorekeeper, a non-invasive device that preserves high scores on electromechanical pinball machines by mounting in the apron and using flipper buttons.

    high · Matt's opening introduction: 'a friend of mine Tanner has developed a product for electromechanical pinball machines it is called the EM Scorekeeper...it mounts into the apron and it uses the flipper buttons it's very non-invasive'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Tanner Petsch identified as primary EM expert in Minnesota pinball community, combining STEM teaching with active restoration practice and product development.

    high · Matt: 'he's also kind of our local EM expert out of our group of pinball buddies that's here in Minnesota and Tanner is also a restorer'; Tanner's extensive restoration portfolio and teaching integration

  • ?

    content_signal: The Pinball Restorer's Podcast is marathon-dropping 5 episodes before Pinball Expo. Matt mentions interviewing Todd Tuckey for 4.5 hours and has future episodes planned with Phil.

    high · Matt: 'this is one of five episodes I am marathon dropping right before I get to go to Pinball Expo'; 'Phil...he'll be actually on another episode'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Pinball Basement (Charlie) is reverse-engineering circuit boards including classic Bally, Stern, and Atari boards with WPC 89/95 Williams licensure from Planetary Pinball.

    high · Matt: 'He has a licensure from Planetary Pinball. So he is making the 89 and 95 Williams boards. But he is reverse engineering stuff for us...classic Bally, classic Stern. He's going to try to make a few all-in-ones.'

  • $

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.213

0:00
Pinball. Finally cleaning its reputation as an illicit and immoral gambling device. Once believed to be robbing children of their hard earned nickels and dimes, is now enjoying legal status in major cities across the United States. Gone are the days that the former New York Mayor, LaGuardia, would be seen smashing pinball machines with a sledgehammer. The man who argued its legitimacy is none other than Roger Sharp, a young magazine editor hailing from the Midwest. As pinball enjoys its electromechanical freedom, players desperate to have bragging rights have never been able to save a high score. Until now.
0:30
Welcome to the Pinball Restorers Podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Pinball Restorers Podcast. I'm your host, Matt Listerud. Hey, I'm back again. Sorry about the break. Work piled up. I just had no free time. I literally was working 70 hours a week, but I finally wrapped all that up. I'm looking forward to going to Expo. and in fact this is one of five episodes i am marathon dropping right before i get to go to pin expo and if you are in attendance and you see me please come up and say hi i like finding out that people actually listen to this i'm my own worst critic but what is this show about well right now a friend of mine tanner has developed a product for electromechanical pinball machines it is called the em scorekeeper why because electromechanical games have no batteries in them they never did so when you turn the game off and turn it back on the whole thing resets you never get to keep the high score on the game some people take pictures on their phones but we all know those photos get deleted the second that you you know really need to instagram the latest meal you've had so it is still a unique product it mounts into the apron and it uses the flipper buttons it's very non-invasive and i think it's personally cool plus he's also kind of our local em expert out of our group of pinball buddies that's here in minnesota and tanner is also a restorer and his primary form of income is he's a stem teacher he has been bringing games into the classroom for students to see and that is a valuable thing for the hobby if you think about it pinball it blew up yes but these games are in bars they're in barcades i don't see them in enough places where little kids get to actually be mesmerized by back glass artwork and the play of the game and understand what's going on and i feel like him bringing these into a classroom setting get letting students understand that you know when you're learning how to do circuit boards or how things work to actually see a physical game that is awesome i hope he inspires a generation of designers and engineers but without further ado my friend the tan man hey what's up Not much. I just did it this way. It's a lot easier. I'm sorry. My schedule has not been my own. Oh, my God.

Pinside community has issues with troll behavior and excessive criticism of newcomers, despite value for networking and repair forums

high confidence · Matt and Tanner both discuss Pinside community toxicity; Matt mentions '85 people harp on them' and impact on newcomers

Pinball Basement
company
Pinball Expoevent
Tilt'svenue
Corey Massalperson
EM Scorekeeperproduct
Planetary Pinballcompany
The Pinball Restorer's Podcastorganization
Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization
TNT Amusementscompany
Joe's Classic Arcadesvenue/content_creator
Papa Pinballperson
Pinsideplatform

market_signal: EM and early solid state games are increasingly the primary entry point for collectors due to pricing, with newer machines and better condition games rising beyond casual budget.

high · Matt: 'decent quality games...have all kind of been out of our budget now. We're ending up with...EM games are the more affordable option. Early solid state is like your next tier.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinside forums exhibit gatekeeping behavior where newcomers face excessive criticism (described as '85 people harp on them'), discouraging restoration attempts and new players.

    high · Matt: 'what we don't like about Pinside is internet troll behavior...suddenly 85 people harp on them. That's very damaging to somebody who's new'; Tanner concurs with restoration modification concerns

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo is occurring next week with significant industry attendance including Matt Listerud, Todd Tuckey, and Jeff Miller. Multiple podcast coordination planned.

    high · Matt: 'going to Expo...next week'; Todd Tuckey mentioned as returning expo attendee; Jeff Miller intro ad mentions Pinball Expo attendance

  • ?

    operational_signal: Amateur restorers use estate sales as primary acquisition channel for broken machines, negotiate heavily on pricing, and allocate significant time (e.g., Tanner's 8-month Lost World rebuild with 1,000 feet of rewiring).

    high · Tanner describes estate sale hunting strategy, $350 negotiation on $1,300 ask, and detailed Lost World rebuild requiring 8 months and complete rewiring

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Community split between purists (preserve original condition even if damaged) and restorers (overlay, hard top, repainting acceptable). Both camps respect each other but have different values.

    high · Matt and Tanner discuss purists vs. restorers; Tanner stenciling his own Pro Football cabinet; acknowledgment of 'guys who are truest when it comes to playfields...don't want to overlay'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Tanner articulates clear preference for EM simplicity (immediately understandable rules) over solid state complexity, especially in public venues where learning curve is high.

    high · Tanner: 'You can walk up to an EM and know exactly what to do...I don't know what I'm doing in any of these games. I'm new to solid state...it takes a hundred games to really feel like I understand everything'

  • ?

    educational_signal: Tanner brings pinball machines into elementary classroom as STEM education tool for teaching circuit boards, electronics, and engineering principles to students.

    high · Matt: 'he has been bringing games into the classroom for students to see...he's a STEM teacher...him bringing these into a classroom setting letting students understand...circuit boards or how things work'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Tanner identifies as collector-restorer rather than player—prefers the restoration cycle (acquire broken machine, restore, sell, repeat) over extended gameplay. Views machines as 'works of art' to preserve.

    high · Tanner: 'I feel like I'm a restorer and preservationist...by night I just like until 12 o'clock...I'm just down in the basement fixing one...I can't wait to show it off and sell it and get something new'

    • 2:54
    I'm just saying, you've been working some hard hours lately. They just slammed me. I mean, because I'm going to Expo, what is it, next week? And then right after that, I'll be actually back for like three days. Then I'm going hunting for a week.
    3:10
    Yeah. Nice. Wisconsin hunting? No, Minnesota, actually. oh okay nice the rifle rifle opener rifle opener yep um and i don't know i not everybody well i don't want to ever give the impression that i'm like this big hick down here because i'm not um i am an outdoor sports enthusiast i mean i do i own a boat i mean i own a boat i own a camper i I got an ATV and we do this stuff, but yeah, definitely not on the side of NRA craziness in the least.
    3:48
    You know, you know, I got the family that's that has the same things. We actually used to grow bucks and does and stuff and tell them to people. We like do trophy bucks and stuff. Oh, you guys had deer farm. Nice. yeah yeah my parents did i i didn't really partake in it but for my parents they i mean there was a lot of money in it they got out of it in the past couple five years i think but yeah ranchers and uh resorts where they would like people hunt buy these for six to seven thousand eight thousand dollars just for one deer it's crazy well yeah that's because well think about that that's like that's where you get like a 22 pointer. Those are, those are, there's a, some, uh, there's a movie. My best friend, uh, had us watch cause it's about, you know, you bring, you bring the kids at some point. I think it's legend, uh, legend of the fuck hunter or whatever. And it's, uh, there's this line. He goes, yeah, we got to go after that atypical.
    4:47
    And that's all I can think of every time. I just laugh. So, yeah, but anyway, so, well, here's what, here's what I'll do is I'll get, so I added all, all this banter out, you know, like, because sometimes when I do talk to these guys, pardon, is that I end up getting to know more about them first. Like, that interview I did with Todd Tuckie, that did go on for, like, four and a half hours. It's like, holy crap. That's awesome. That's kind of why I listen to your podcast, is I just like to hear everybody shoot the shit about their pinball experience and their stories, and I think that's just entertaining. just to see where people are coming from, what are the first pins, and all that kind of stuff. Well, and that's like the best part is because everybody has a story behind this.
    5:37
    Ryan Wenger, I thought that was, you know, from Comet, I thought that was just shocking. I'm like, wait a second, you started off as a casual operator, and then you bought a business off of Pinside.
    5:51
    And then his wife's all in on it. And I'm like, my wife hates pinball. Yeah, yeah, same. She's like, this is all you talk about. I'm like, the world has gone crazy, dear. If you read the news, everything's depressing. Half of your friends fight each other now. Some people you can't even know anymore. I'll edit this part out because I'm not trying to create divisiveness, you know. But I'm like, you know what? Nobody argues with you about pinball unless you're Canadian.
    6:23
    Right, yeah. Yeah. In fact, I, I, it's, hey guys, it's a sanity project. Oh, absolutely. You just get away, have some brewskis and you fix something. It's a, it's a problem. You find a problem in a pen, you fix it and bring it back to life. It's, it's, it's one of the coolest feelings in the world to be like, I can't believe I fixed this. And I, I don't have a degree in electrical engineering. I don't have like somebody saying you now can restore these professional Like, it's just, holy shit, I figured this out, and I can't believe it. And so you get, like, a high from it.
    7:03
    It's weird to – hard to explain, and it's a great feeling. Well, yeah, and you're right. There's that high to it. I mean, I wasn't into this that long. I've always played pinball, and I do remember when Williams went out of business. Okay, I remember when that happened. early 2000s, I was actually going to coin-off auctions not to get a pinball machine because they were still way too much money, but I was trying to get my hands on a Raiden arcade game because I wanted to finally beat the damn thing.
    7:42
    And I remember going to these coin-off auctions. They were selling these games for like $100. Like, it was just shocking. And that just shows you the collapse of the arcade industry. And that's how consoles killed. They did kill the arcade because when the console got better than the arcade game, they had to reinvent what an arcade is. and I think Eugene Jarvis has done incredible work with Raw Thrills his biggest hit obviously being Big Buck Hunter because I think every bar in the United States has one of those I do like playing it, I would buy one and I don't want to buy the arcade one up one, I want to buy a real one because I want the In Case of Zombies add on and the Duck Dynasty the add-on. Whether you like the show, the game gets ridiculous when you're playing that version. There's that. There were a bunch for sale at the auction today that I went to.
    8:48
    Every time I see one, I'm like, there's so much fun. They're always going to sell. People love that. You go to a bar, there's always a Buckhunter. At least there was back in the day.
    8:59
    Everybody crowds around. It's a great game for sure. Oh, yeah. So you got into – pardon, I'm clearing my throat. I've been – as I said, I've been choking on stone dust for a week. Oh, and there's crap going around too. Yeah. Oh, I got – my kids are giving me stuff. It's all good. Oh, sorry.
    9:18
    So, wait one second. My wife is – thank you. $5. Awesome. My wife just actually just arrived home and just told me she just bought me a bottle of apple pie. Sweet.
    9:32
    $5, baby? Thanks. Yeah, $5 bin. Holy crap. There's a shit ton more there if you want to buy it. I might go back and get another bottle. Drop off a bottle for Drew over at Four Man's Pinball Podcast over at Expo. I don't know his mother's story. Nice. Oh, man, this is a bottle of wine. I do that. I'm leaving this in.
    9:52
    There you go. Oh, I did talk to Drew yesterday, actually. It's weird to get to know more. and this is something I don't, you know, because we've all started to get to know each other. So the back story on how I originally got hold of you. First off, I started doing the podcast. I posted in, you know, we're in Minnesota, the Penn Cities or Twin Cities, you know, Penn Cities page. I remember you had a Gottlieb caveman. And I was broke at the time. I'm like, I can't buy this from you. And I wanted to so bad. That was my re-entry into the pinball. I had some pins maybe 10 years ago when I was in college and I was addicted then. And thankfully I weaned off of that and sold them. And then I got married. I had to pay a bunch of bills. And then finally, that's like now that I have a house and, you know, we're settled down, we've got some kids, we've got some time.
    10:52
    I bought that caveman just saying, I think I just saw it on Facebook and bought it. but I was super intimidated. Like I knew this thing was old. It had not only just a pinball in it but a video game unit which I knew nothing about and I knew there were boards and there's a monitor and like what if the monitor goes out? And I tried looking online like is there replacements for this and I didn't find anything. Later on a couple months ago you had told me that it could be converted to an LCD and I wish I had kept it. Knowing what I know now about like pins and how much help there is out there to restore these, I totally wish I would have kept it. It is so unique, so cool. It was a fun game.
    11:35
    Great soundtrack and the voice, the little caveman, don't eat me. Just so cool, so cool. I'll get one someday, again. Oh, they do pop up. Todd Tucky actually featured that one because it said it was one of the first video integrated.
    11:54
    Yeah. I was like, no, I can't buy it. I remember because I had posted one of my Lost World rebuild, which if anybody's ever seen me online, that was a war of attrition. That game, there was nothing left of it. I should have never restored that thing. And I did. And sadly, it was probably the best learning experience because typically when you restore a game, You don't have to restore everything, like literally everything. I mean, Jeff Miller will take a game down to the screw, but he still has something to work with. I had nothing to work with. The play field was gone. The back glass was gone. The cabinet was rotted out. The wiring was ripped out. There was no boards. There was no transformer. The coin door mechanism was gone. I mean, everything was gone, just broken. And so I went to town on that thing. And, yes, it did take me eight months to do this because of how in-depth I had to go with that, plus 1,000 feet of wire because all the wire was gone. But I remember that you had asked what colors I used for that game, and I didn't know that you had a Lost World, I think, at the time. I think it was either that you had one or you had something similar that you needed the color scheme.
    13:16
    I don't remember. I might have asked, but I didn't have a Lost World. I maybe was thinking about purchasing one. I'm not sure, but I have not had one of those. You are big on the EM games. In fact, I will say that out of probably our group of friends, you're probably the EM expert because Phil is also really good at it too, keep that in mind. He'll be actually on another. I'm actually going to have him on another episode because we're going to talk about the hoarding aspect of this because I don't know if you've been to Phil's place, but he's got an insane collection. I have an insane collection. Charlie has a huge collection. Back to what you were saying. You had a pin that was gutted out. Nothing worked. But it was a budget deal. For me, it sounds like at least that you had a budget, and this was a game that you could maybe afford, and that's kind of what got me into EMs.
    14:17
    It's something I can afford. I love pinball, and I like the simplicity. of it. The complex games of like the solid state, I love them when I can have them in my basement and I can play them and figure them out on my own, one player, just like me by myself. If I'm at like Tilts in Minneapolis and I'm in front of all these shiny, you know, beautiful games, I really, I don't really care to, I'm just hitting buttons at that point. These solid states are great, but I love the simplicity. You can walk up to an EM and know exactly what to do. If I go to TILT, I'm there to drink some beers and maybe hang out with some friends and try to get a score that's decent, try to just keep the ball up. I don't know what I'm doing in any of these games. I'm new to solid state. I had an Adams family 10 years ago. I figured that one out just for playing it for months and months. I had a Super Mario Brothers. I had a high speed 2 I think it's got the engine on it Is that the high speed 2 or high speed 1 I think it's called the getaway The getaway yeah And roller games I had that one back in the day But I liked them when I could sit And figure it out on my own I don't like solid states to be in public Because I feel like it takes a hundred games to really feel like I understand everything. Like I feel like, but, um, in EM, I can walk up to it and know exactly like, oh, I got to hit these targets and hit them down. And then a special lit or, you know, this, if I hit this thing in the back and then the side lanes, I can, I can have the bumper thing between the flippers pop up. Um, I mean, it's just so simple. Uh, so fun. Anybody can do it. I feel like solid States are intimidating for my wife. Like she, tries playing these solid states. I just got a road show, as you know, and Charlie helps me fix the boards. Super good guy. Just love talking with him and learning from him. But God, if I was working... For anybody who doesn't know, that is Charlie is another friend of ours. He's another local guy. He is actually the founder and owner of the company Pinball Basement, which is responsible for reverse engineering and creating new circuit boards. He has a licensure from Planetary Pinball. So he is making the 89 and 95 Williams boards. But he is reverse engineering stuff for us. I mean, he's going to be taking that Atari board I got, that big Atari MPU. He's going to be doing that. He's doing the Classic Valley, Classic Stern. He's going to try to make a few all-in-ones. But, man, the guy is a valuable resource. I kind of feel like we're spoiling him. Oh, for sure. Like, I don't think he realizes. Maybe he does. but I just like the importance of him in this community doing what he's doing. Like people like him and him himself. I don't think he realizes how thankful we all are for, you know, like the work that he does and he's got a gift. Like it's, I just, I just go there and I'm just like, man, I, I, he, he didn't want to charge me like what I thought for repairing these things. I'm like, man, I going to give you more because we got to support people like you and like keep this going because I mean we all community We all here together you know trying to keep this alive and and it doing well like right now But yeah, Charlie's just a super good guy. He fixed the board for me. I put it in and made sure Rocho works, but I still, I've had it for what? Like a month. And I haven't even really played a game on it because I'm, I am meticulously, I'm a cleaner. I got to make sure this thing is like perfect. I, I normally people would just like probably play it. And, but I see rubbers that are dirty and I, I got to replace the rubbers and then I got a cliffy. Cause I see like the I'm not super great at terms with these, but like the, the ball that jumps out of the hole.
    18:33
    I've got a protector. There you go. So the Cliffy Protector for that, I got to install that before I can play. Like, I feel like I'm, I am more of a restorer and preservationist of these pins. I feel like I'm learning about myself. I, they're works of art and I think I love just fixing them and looking at them just as much as playing them. I, I don't know. I, I, I like selling these to make money to keep bill or keep fixing. I keep finding myself so I know it's something I love to do as you know I'm a teacher by day and at elementary school and by night I just like until 12 o'clock at night I'm just down in the basement fixing one and I can't wait to show it off and sell it and get something new and keep fixing like that's just it's such an addicting cycle that I'm in right now so oh yeah trust me and there are a few other guys in our group of friends who have, well, particularly as games have, as hobbies heat up, and a lot of your, you know, decent quality games, like, you know, that aren't destroyed or aren't, I guess, beat up, have all kind of been out of now, out of our budget. We're ending up with, you know, to your point, EM games are the more affordable option. Early solid state is like your next tier. and depending on the condition of the game, yeah, you're not playing that when you get it. We poorly support the following companies. Who's your daddy? Big Daddy Enterprises, your source for pinball electronic repair products featuring boards from Flip, X-Pin, Alltech, and more. Wiring parts, E-Proms, replacement displays, flipper rebuild kits, and more at bigdaddy-enterprises.com.
    20:27
    Are you ever going to move out of the basement? Pinball Basement, your premier electronics replacement specialist. Brand new boards for Bally and Williams featuring WPC 89 and WPC 95 boards. Wide array of new and used parts. Find out more at pinballbasement.com.
    20:45
    Playing with pins and tools. Mad Voodoo Pinball, proudly featuring Pin Caddy, the only pinball designed organizing parts trade. Fits between the rails of any standard machine for playfield repair work. Slides into the lock bar for back box repair work. Includes soldering iron holder and magnetic parts tray inserts. And featuring pin cards. High quality artist designed score cards for a variety of pinball machines. All this and more at MadVoodoo.com Hey all you silver ball addicts. Jeff Miller here, aka Pinball Pimp. I'm looking forward to seeing all you pinheads at this year's Pinball Expo. Be sure to follow my progress as I pimp out games on YouTube and pinballpimp.com. If you're attending the show, stop by and say hello. As always, keep on flipping. Pimp out.
    21:41
    You turn it on, GI comes on, that's it. You're like, oh, crap, here we go. Now I have to diagnose everything.
    21:48
    And you're right. It's that thrill of when it's brought back. because we're fans of the artwork. We're fans of how these back glasses were done, translights, different eras. We like the artists. We like the stories behind the guys who made this, designed it. And it's funny when you talk to the guys who've done this, to them it's just their job. They love it. Don't get me wrong. I mean, to us, we're just like, we would kill to work here. And to them, they're like, I'm an engineer. I just happen to work for a pinball company. but it's, you know, the artwork is half of the draw. The skill, the game's got to be easy enough for the novice to come up and approach it, and the game's got to react. You have to cause a series of events that cause reaction. And the reason that pinball, for me particularly, is addictive, like with games, why I've been just pounding the crap out of my Williams blackout, is you keep racking up a score, yes, but then you try to figure out different ways to get that same score or beat it. You're like, you know what, no, I'm actually going to try to play almost the perfect game and get that five times multiplier, hit every one of those targets, and actually see this thing start to really rack up. And with EMs, you end up with such a, you end up with that satisfactory sound of motors. You get to hear the stepper motors. You get to hear the chime units. and there is an elegant, Jay Leno likes to say elegant simplicity when it comes to classic cars, classic engines, like when he restored actually old steam engines that used to operate equipment. And I've always loved that phrase, simple elegance or elegant simplicity.
    23:41
    You can use either one. I mean, it's either deniable plausibility or plausible deniability. It's the same thing. Right. Absolutely.
    23:51
    But, yeah, so what was the first EM that you got into? Or I guess what is the first game where you're like, this is my thing. This is my thing. What was that game?
    24:03
    Well, I knew that I had to get a deal. I had to get something that was cheap. So I started researching about estate sales. And so I just typed into a website that would give me alerts when there was certain sales. And I'm probably now going to get a bunch of competitors, I mean, that are listening to this and like, oh, now I'm going to search for them too. So now, but it's all good.
    24:28
    Estate sales are great. They're great for finding deals. So I typed in pinball into like an estate sales search. And now I get notified whenever there's the keyword pinball in estate sales. so there was one in Minneapolis and I saw that they had two and I just went and they wanted 1,300 for a triple action and I didn't know anything like uh I I knew I wanted to get one I knew I was going to get one but it's probably broke because I could get it a good deal I was going to learn how to fix it and that was my summer job because I'm the teacher I got the summer off got nothing else to do kids are in daycare um so this is gonna be my project and got the triple action for $350. I just said, hey, I know it's not working. You're asking a lot of money. I don't think you're going to sell it for $1,300 broken. I would give you $350 right now. They called the owner of the estate sale and they said yes. Miraculously, I was thinking, no way. I think there's no way. He wants $1,300. So I got it, and somebody helped me get it up their stairs from a basement that I probably had asbestos all over it. It just reeked of mold, and I was like, what am I getting myself into? I'm probably not going to be able to fix this, but it looked great. The back glass is great. The play field is great, and it looked really fun. It had this unique spinner in the middle of the play field, and it said that you could get an extra ball or add a ball, which I love in solid states when I had like a Mario brothers or something when you knew how to get an extra ball that's a saving grace and I'm like oh this is going to be a great game it's going to keep its value I'm going to love it so I brought it home and there was actually another pin there that was like had like a racetrack in the back glass the way that actually horses would move and it was like not a typical pinball it just looked like you hit the ball towards the back of the play field like the whole thing was open i wish i would have taken that too i probably could have got um that for a really good deal too but um that i believe that game that where you're describing i want to say that's a turf king that's an old game that's a really old game and there was like a metal button on like the the lockdown bar type of thing or like it just had like one button i it was so i thought okay this is nobody's going to want to buy this from me. It's probably pretty boring, but now that I love EMs, I wish I would have grabbed it. It probably never sold. It probably was, I don't know, thrown to somebody for $100 or something because there were a bunch of people there at the estate sale, but nobody gave any attention to these EMs.
    27:16
    I got the triple action. I was just going to say the reason that typically a lot of people won't buy these. and this actually applies to pinball in general and a lot of guys will all cringe when I say this the average person will not buy these and the reason they won't especially if it's not working most people are horrifically intimidated by having to try and fix one of these they don't have a clue where to start but we were willing to try when I talk to guys about getting into this hobby because there are guys who are like, they find out like you got like 15 machines. I'm like, yeah. And they're like, what do you do when they break? I'm like, dude, half of them were broken when I got them. You know, I'm like, I had to fix them. And they're like, where did you learn that? I'm like, the internet is the greatest thing when you actually want to learn something.
    28:16
    And, you know, Joe, there are a lot of videos when you type in a game, videos come up, you know, TNT Amusements features games. they don't always show what they like how to fix stuff Todd does certain tips he does and um but Joe from uh Joe's Classic Arcades he actually you know you see him tear down the entire game um there's uh Papa Pinball he's done that but there are guys that will show you what to do and as much as people hate Pinside there you know there's a lot of us that don't like Pinside not because we have an issue with the website. We think that it's great for networking. We think it's great for the repair forums because guys will literally respond to your question. What we don't like about Pinside is internet troll behavior and that happens when somebody posts something and then suddenly 85 people harp on them.
    29:14
    That's very damaging to somebody who's new to this. It's like, wait a second. And I talked to Corey Massal of Arcade Pickers, and he said that his wife became part of this camper restoration group, and it was the same thing. Like, suddenly, if somebody doesn't like what you're doing, they make it known.
    29:37
    Right. Oh, for sure. And to me, I'm just like, I've seen people mod games, make them look, you know, you can re-theme a game, and there's guys who have their own opinions of that. like you can't do that we know guys who are truest when it comes to play fields they don't want to overlay they don't want to do a hard top an outside edge product because to them it's like well it plays differently so they're going to literally lock in a damaged play field that like all the artwork's gone this isn't about like you know retouching it up or anything or you know repainting it or rescreening it or even restoring it they'll just clear coat a ruined play field And that's what they feel, you know, well, this is then all original. And I'm like, I hear that, you know, and I do respect that. I do have to respect that. I mean, as long as it's enjoyed by the person that owns it and, you know, it looks good to them, like, I'm fine. I mean, what's the worst thing that could happen is they're going to have a hard time selling it. And, yeah, I think as long as it looks good to them, they're enjoying it, it's getting its play, I think that's good. If it were me personally, I think like, you know, it's your pin, you do what you want, but I've, I've learned a lot. And today even I was, um, I got, uh, a pro football EM, a third one and I'm, I'm redoing the, um, actually it was my second one. I picked up a third one today, but I got the cabinet and it was painted red, as you know. And I was like, what the hell, this looks so bad. the whole thing is just red, the back box, the cabinet. And so I'm like, okay, well, this is an opportunity for me to learn. Like I'm going to take all the paint off and I'm going to get a stencil from, um, my, my, uh, brother-in-law that has pro football. That's my first one that I fixed. Um, I'm going to stencil it myself. I'm not, I know I should have probably go the professional route of gooding. Um, uh, what is it? The pinball pimp stencil. So, yeah, I mean, he's got great stuff, but I'm like, I can't spend that right now. Like, I want to see if I can do something that's, you know, decent. And I'm sure people are like screaming at me thinking like you should be doing that and that only. Or, you know, but I, I, I researched, I figured out, you know, how to get the paint removed off, get, you know, so I have the bare wood and how to like spray the paint, the new paint on. and I'm doing my own stencil work with a cheaper, you know, I'm using like a plastic sheet. It's my first go at it. And, I mean, what's the worst that can happen? It's I had a red cabinet that was horrible that, you know, no matter what you do, if you sand it off or use a chemical, the art underneath that red was going to be damaged. So I know it's like there's only so many of these cabinets out there. Me sanding this down and trying to restore it again, the worst that's going to happen is it's not going to look the greatest. If somebody doesn't like it, they could sand it back down and they could try to improve on it. But from everything that I've done so far, I feel like it looks visually great. I showed it to my father-in-law, who's actually going to be buying that one from me. and he thinks it looks better than the factory. And he saw it. I mean, his son is the one that owns the other one. They both want a pro football so they can compete. They live, you know, 45 minutes away, which isn't that bad, but they want to have the same pin so they can compete from their own house. And, you know, the big football fans. But I think it's turning out pretty good, and it's a learning experience for me. It didn't, you know, cost me the expense of Jeff's stencil. I think he said his name was Jeff. and you know it's i mean i'm learning so i think that's the greatest thing you can do is just get more people um into this young people older people just anybody that wants to get in try it um research try it um you know if it doesn't work i mean there's always things that you could probably do to fix it you know there's people out there that can then help you and And, you know, I mean, if we wanted to say only do it the right way, you're not going to get people into this hobby. If you're like, no, this is wrong, you can't do this, you can't try this, people are going to be like, well, then I don't want to be. There's so many people out there telling me that I'm horrible at this. I don't want to be part of this. So, yeah, and you've got to get in and try. Yeah, and you've got to get in and try. And people shouldn't be scared or intimidated, you know, and people do when they hear the numbers on these. um it you know again not every game you're going to get your hands on needs everything done um so that's where you start to bust into thousands of dollars um on average you can get most games you know other than catastrophic board failures um and you know circuit boards are what they are and thankfully there are companies that have made new ones um you know it's not that bad i mean Typically, nine times out of ten, when I find a game and the guy's selling it, he goes, yeah, it hasn't worked in like five years. I just open it up, and thankfully somebody serviced it within the last 20, so the batteries are gone, or at least were moved. But it's usually just a fuse.
    35:16
    I mean, and the funny thing was when I got my Stern Wildfire, and it worked, but the displays didn't work. And I was new to this. I didn even know what the heck to do And I opened it up and I looking at the little rectifier board and i shit you not there was a drill bit in place of one of the fuses in the clips and i like i pretty sure this is what is happening and my dad made a joke he goes my dad made a joke he goes well that was a five amp bit you're you probably were good my father was an industrial engineer so um but he was laughing but and you know people do get intimidated a lot of times it's just fuses a lot of times it's you know with ems and you know this um it's the fact they've sat once they sit the you know the mechanisms they freeze up or there's dust the contacts you know it's been moved around so the contacts don't they'll line up a little bit of corrosion it's like it's amazing what you can literally do just cleaning and working in the working in a restoration industry the first thing that i do is i have to clean you have developed a product for em machines because these did not have a battery in them these didn't when you turn the game off and you turn it back on and the first thing it does is reset everything.
    36:47
    You've never been able to keep a high score. Now, this is what you've done, and I'll let you go ahead and get into that.
    36:55
    Yeah. I mean, one of the biggest things that I think all of us gravitate towards pinball machines is it's a social game, and you want to beat the person next to you and get the highest score.
    37:08
    So the solid states do a great job of that. You can buy a solid state, and it keeps your score. You can put your initials in there.
    37:15
    And it's great. It's bragging rights for your whole family. Or, you know, at the local bar, you can be like, yeah, I got my name on first place or second place or whatever. So EMs, that's the one thing I got. When I got my EM, my triple action, loved it. But I just didn't think it was doing, you know, hitting that little itch or scratching that itch of I couldn't brag unless I had a photo. and I wasn't going to go up to my family and be like, hey, look at my photo of my score. I just felt like it wasn't part of the game. It was almost like disconnected from the game. And so I wanted to make something that was connected inside of the game that I could feel like it's more of a solid state. It actually saved my score for me.
    38:04
    So I made an EM scorekeeper is what I call it. it's basically a microprocessor that is connected to your EM machine's flippers, and you can connect another button up to your coin return button. The home use only EM, a lot of times you can just use that because you're not putting quarters into your machine to play it. You just, that no longer has a function. So you can use the flippers and the coin return button to set your score on a small micro display that's underneath the glass, part of the apron of the pinball machine.
    38:44
    There's two different options. A lot of the EMs are Gottliebs, and there's not like an opening in the apron like they have on Williams EMs. There's a huge opening behind the instruction cards on Williams that allows you to have a bigger display. So that's the first one I made a display for. It was my triple action that got me into making these and making this mod is because there was a huge opening behind the instructions card. I think it was behind the replay card, too. So I got an LCD that would fit perfectly in there and made my own custom, like, sword card that would wrap around it. so while you're playing you can you know look down and see who has first place second place third place with their initials and their scores that automatically sorts them for you and saves them even if you turn your pinball machine off it saves them on like an e-prom memory so you don't have to worry about batteries or anything like that so you turn on your machine you play a game And then after your game is done, you look at your score and you simply just hold down the coin return button for three seconds. And then the screen on your game's apron will say enter your initials. And so you can use the flippers to type in your initials. Mine's always Tan for my first name, Tanner. And then it asks you to type in your score. So you manually type in your score. It doesn't like take it from the game, which I wish it did that. But it feels good because you're using the system's flippers to enter your own score, your high score. It feels genuine. There is an honor system with it. So it's just basically your family that, you know, hopefully they're entering the right scores.
    40:42
    My family is pretty good about that, keeping the scores legitimate. So it's pretty simple. I don't feel like it's too expensive. right now we have them at $79.99 so it's an easy kit you can install in about 10 minutes it's integrated with your flippers and your button to make it all work so it's been a great experience for me to do something that I've wanted to improve my game and my experience with EMs so I am hoping that some other people will enjoy it and some people have been reaching out and purchasing one, which is great, and they've had some great feedback for me.
    41:24
    So it's been a great learning experience taking my STEM background and applying it to a simple need that I've had and making it feel like a new game, feeling like I can save my scores on here.
    41:40
    Well, no, and it's actually cool to – because all of us have had this moment where we've stared at this – once you fix these games, you work on them for a little bit, you have that moment where you're staring at the game and you're like, what can I make for this?
    41:58
    And people have come up, that's where all of your mods come up. And I thought it was cool because yours integrates with the flippers.
    42:08
    And we both have, I don't know if you haven't gone to Phil's house yet, but I've gone to people's homes that have a lot of games and they have post-it notes next to a lot of their games where they're writing in the high scores because there are quite a few people, even with solid states, that will take the batteries out of a functioning Williams, you know, System 11, turn it on, and just, you know, go through the functions, get past the adjustment failure because that means it didn't detect the battery. That doesn't affect the game. It just means there's no battery in it. So they will then just leave those on, and they'll play them all the time because then you don't risk any battery damage. But here's the problem, to your point, that doesn't save the game. So whether you want to put an Envy ROM chip in or not, an EPROM that holds that score on those things, that's great. You have that option. Well, with EMs, none of that existed.
    43:03
    So for people who like competitive play, bragging rights, this is definitely a cool thing to have. and I will be bringing this up at Expo because I'm going to go to the EM section because I'm still wheeling and dealing to get my hands on a Gottlieb Surf Champ, and I may go crazy and get a 4 million BC. I don't know. That thing's a nightmare to work on if anything goes wrong.
    43:34
    But I will be over in that section. And, yeah, I'm not trying to say I'm pitching for everybody. I am going there on behalf of people I've gotten to meet. And so I'll be talking about Charlie's board company there. I'll be talking about BM Scorekeeper, which you've made now direct to the website. And I will be also speaking on behalf of X-Pen, Big Daddy Enterprises, just because not everybody gets a chance to go to these big events. And so I'm excited to go, but I'm also excited to bring the networking that I've had with me. And for my friends, for people who develop something or a small guy trying to just make something cool,
    44:19
    I want that to be represented. So if you end up with a ton of orders next weekend, you know exactly what happened.
    44:27
    Yeah. Oh, it's been cool. There's a guy in Germany that ordered one, and he made a video on YouTube.
    44:37
    He enjoyed it and promoted it, which is great. There's a person in Europe that wanted me to send it to them. Just people all over. That's been super nice about this. Some other podcast people that were like, I just want to support you because we love improving the experience. And so it's been great meeting new people and helping them share something that I wanted just basically for my own pins. It's really, it's so cool to be able to share that with people and hear like, hey, they want it too. So it's been a cool experience just meeting new people and sharing something that I feel like, wow, like this is what I've wanted to do. I've wanted to help the community grow and, and, and, uh, I was able to do this with a small, tiny little invention that, um, you know, improves the experience, which is, which it's just been a lot of fun. So, and, and, and it is, and, um, having, you know, growing up and played, you know, pinball is that didn't have the latest and greatest machines. You know, my parents, you know, the fishing resort story that I've told before.
    45:57
    There are a lot of people that they got into pinball because their uncle had an am or their dad had a garage full of them. And to your point, I love playing those just as much as I like playing like a brand new Halloween from Spooky, which I do love that game. and you know I will laugh again about like talking back to like how you started working on these games when you were talking to us you're like I'm so intimidated by solid states I was so blown away by that because I was like wait a second you deal with EM games you know 2,000 feet of weave wire thousands of you know up to a thousand solder connections you know four or five stepper motors you know 15 relays in the bottom of the game and you know hundreds and hundreds of contacts that have to be cleaned i'm like really you're intimidated by the solid state you know most of those games you just pull a fuse and put it back in the game works yeah i mean it's like you said though it's it's ems it's basically if you're a good cleaner you can get an em working and if you're like you're really good observing like where are these wires connected and make sure that they're not touching something they shouldn't be. And that's basically how I started is just cleaning out the triple action and then making sure nothing was touching things and turn it on and cross my fingers. And it all worked except maybe one little thing that stuck on. And it was because I just, you know, it's because the drop target was, you know, activated when it shouldn't be. And you can tell those things just by it, you know, giving you a ding or the score keeps going up. It's usually something simple that it's right in front of your face of what you're doing wrong. If you're a good cleaner, you can do EMs. It's been a blast. It's something I'm going to keep doing.
    47:55
    Like I told you today, I picked up three from somebody and one from an auction. I picked up four total. It's going to keep me busy for a while, and I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah, and I was laughing. I think you made a comment about something about, you know, my wife's not happy, so, well, we might as well be in the same club. And I do make the jokes about that. You know, my wife, all of our friends, though, she hates pinballs.
    48:27
    You know, I think we went to Tilt once. I think I timed it at exactly 21 minutes I got to go there with her. I'm, you know, GC in Medieval Madness and she's losing more money than a drunk bachelorette party at the casino and she's like, ah, crap but the bigger thing too is, these games take up a lot of space, we do have to thank our wives for tolerating this because well, yeah, I mean, look at my basement look at my garage and the sad part is, there's also the storage unit. And she doesn't always know about, you know, it's one of those things, like, I hope I can just swap games in and out without her really noticing. But yet she notices. If anything's different, she's noticed. So she's not turning a blind eye to it.
    49:23
    She's worried that, you know, one day she's going to start seeing them stacked up in the living room or in the spare bedroom.
    49:32
    Yeah. Oh, man. I told her this morning that I got three pins. I'm going to go pick them up. And I came home with four. And you just kind of do it and ask for forgiveness later. And once she sees, like, hey, I made some money off of this one, and I'm going to keep going and restoring and restoring. And once she sees the money, she's not too upset about it. But it's when I get four at a time and she's like, oh, my God. Like our whole garage now is, is falling apart because we don't have room for this. We got to, yeah. So it's, once she sees the money, it's all good. But, uh, it's definitely getting almost to the insane level where I feel like I'm a little bit of a hoarder. But, oh, I'm definitely not at the level of you guys, but I think I am. I've got the bug. I am, I am infected and it's, it just keeps you on. But it's cool to be a part of it and keep fixing and keeping these things alive. It's why we do it, I guess.
    50:35
    And it is. And it preserves a piece of history. It preserves a piece of art. One of my favorite things to actually see is there's a lengthy video that is the art of pinball. It was on YouTube. It's such piano music. The video is like, I want to say it was like an hour and a half long. It's just different screenshots and different back glasses. the play field all done, and it's set to this really peaceful piano music. I have fallen asleep to this. And my wife has come out in the living room and looked at me like, you are insane.
    51:08
    Oh, man. Yeah. That's like that, you know, big Lebowski moment where you're just listening to the, you know, we'll be listening to the pinball chimes while I was lying on a rug somewhere.
    51:20
    Oh, yeah. I've fallen asleep to this old pinball DVDs. You know, those guys that I... What are their names? I fall asleep to these kind of videos and it shows you that we're crazy. We're out of our minds and it's great to be part of a nerdy club like we have here to kind of share this same level of craziness and nerdiness when we're together. Yeah, and that's a big thing. So a little back story about, again, when we are referring to our group of friends.
    51:57
    It started with me answering some repair questions to a couple of local guys. Suddenly I ended up knowing Steve Slarsky. I got to know a distributor, Glenn Von Malusky. I got to know you because of this. I got to know Phil Frazier because we bought games from the same guy. And then that spun on from there. You got Ryan Tanner from Flippin' and Smashing. It became a friend of ours. Charlie from Pinball Basement was added.
    52:23
    Recent ads were our Max up in St. Cloud. I got him hooked on this. He bought one game, and now he's up to 10.
    52:35
    And he's actually got some decent collection. But then we got to know, like, Steve Anderson, who I do think it's funny that all of us ended up at that dude's house. None of us were there at the same time. But he's now become a friend of ours who literally posted he had like 40 games in his garage for sale.
    52:57
    And, I mean, this guy, you know, he had Centaur 2. He had Silver Ball Mania. He had Gorgar. He had, oh, crap, he had that Prospector, which is a Scassa Sonic game. He had Hot what was it Hot Hand He had Meteor He had a ton of Gottlieb System Ones that I took I took the Valley Playboy And what he was saying is he was so thankful to us coming over because we all started helping him fix some of those so he could get, because we all know he bought those at a little bit of a premium because he cleared out a warehouse out in Maryland. And that's where these all came from. And he was incredibly thankful to us coming over and just helping him get stuff going so that he could at least make some money because he also was a nice guy at Ball. And his dad and his brother are operators. And he was telling me that they've never actually helped him with this. And his dad was like, so wait a second, how are you getting all of these guys to come over and help you with this? And he goes, just being nice. He says it's the community. and that's why I like when people ask questions, and we've all done this, when somebody asks, hey, where can I find this? Does anybody have this?
    54:17
    We've all spent time hunting for stuff. We'll, in the back, you know, card catalog of the brain, we'll remember where we saw it and we'll try to find it again. And that's the big thing, help. It's all about help because if we don't, because there's two ways, there's three ways into the hobby. One is you're just a guy who likes to play pinball, and you're just going to play in a public setting. Guess what? That's the cheapest way to get into the hobby is just enjoying the games and meeting up with people to play in a public setting. The second is you're buying older games and rehabbing them and keeping them. Maybe you sell them, maybe not. But, you know, you get to have your little game room. The third way, and that's the most expensive, is, oh, I just played this Godzilla pin and I want to own it. I'm like, ooh, $10,000. My wife will murder me. In fact, if I come back from Expo with another game, she will kill me.
    55:11
    I'm bringing a game to Expo so that people can play it, and you're entered in to win a brand-new Stern. I have to literally, if that ever happened where I won the brand-new Stern, I have to basically have all but a lawyer and the Constitutionist swear on that I did not buy this. yeah i totally get that well anyways yeah i know that i know that you're busy and as i said the ems are also a huge market um there are companies that do make parts uh big daddy enterprises makes all the relays you can get cams made uh that is pixel arcade he does uh metal plating and plastic casting so if you have a destroyed cam but it's intact like you have all the pieces he can cast you a new one that's a huge thing for anybody who happens to deal with these games when they die and you know what it's just get into it open up the game and yeah the first time I opened up an EM I was like oh no I cannot believe I just did this holy crap and well I had three months at a resort and nothing to do when it rained so I just started Thankfully, all the manuals were in the bottom of the game, so I was actually able to learn how to fix that.
    56:34
    But, you know, as I said, nobody should be intimidated by it. EMs are a great introductory game to the hobby. Yeah, absolutely. I'm actually using it for like a teaching tool at my school. I'm a STEM teacher, so I've got kindergarten through fifth grade students, and we talk about circuits, and we make basic circuits all the time, And that's basically what an EM machine is, like basic circuits. So I have one of the pinball machines I got from Steven I got for a great deal, but it was in very rough shape, just a big, lots of rust, lots of problems with rust. But I cleaned it up, and now the kids are enjoying it and playing it. Whenever we have like a spare seven minutes before, you know, we got to send them back to class, it's a moment for them to actually see what a PMO machine is. None of them have played these machines. Maybe one out of a hundred actually know what they are or have one at home.
    57:33
    Maybe probably even less than that. But they love it. Like it brings a smile to their eye and it's showing them like, hey, this is what you can do with circuits that we're learning about. Like we're making basic circuits with electricity, like light bulbs and batteries. And we're making like constellation circuits. So they're seeing like, hey, this can go above and beyond just simple light bulbs. We can make things happen. Solenoids, fire, and looking inside of these things is just showing them what you can actually do, why we're learning about circuits. And it's a start to just get them feeling like, wow, maybe I want to be an engineer someday. Maybe I want to be an electrical engineer or a programmer, make games like this. And so it's a great entry point for not only just adults, but for kids, too. And I'm excited to modify that. It's a doodlebug. Modify it so they can look inside of the cab, put like a little glass window so they can actually see what's actually like firing and clicking inside of there while somebody else is playing it and have it be like an actual learning experience while they're being kids. I think right now in education, we don't give enough time to students just to play and explore and figure out, like, okay, what's actually happening in this game that we're playing? And so it's exciting to bring the hobby not only just to the people, but to the kids. That really, I mean, it's the generation of kids that are going to take this and keep going with it, hopefully.
    59:06
    Yeah, and that's because we've all had the benefit of we played these when we were young. We got to play these in arcades and public spaces.
    59:13
    The current industry, you know, yes, it's public space pinball. Yeah, in bars, you know, there's no kids in the bar. And they can say, well, they're in the bowling alleys.
    59:26
    And, well, again, that's still kind of a bar-related industry. And so the lack of arcades, I mean, the fact that a Chuck E. Cheese doesn't have pinball machines in it. It's literally nothing but redemption games. I mean, what you're doing will leave an impact, and that's the experience we need that younger generation to have. And to set up a game so you could see everything happen, I saw a transparent EM game that a guy built. He cut, I think, yeah, it was either acrylic or polycarbonate, one of the two, anyways, plexiglass. He made the entire cabinet out of it. and yeah that's what gave me the idea i want that so bad and i've been looking at that i'm like i think it would be cool to do that to a lot of games actually because you could you know laser you know because you can get stuff laser etched um imagine redoing a back glass just as a laser etching and you get to still see everything and so that's what i i've been you can at least still of the artwork and i'm just like no no i i love that i love the fact that you are setting that up and um you know and for future reference if you want a solid state to bring into class i will i will drop off a game i have no issues doing that because um and it could have a before and after of like this is but understanding how things work like basic electric you know basic electricity being able to do circuit board repairs or not, or just it's about the fact that think about what you can do with what you're learning. Everything I've learned to do with pinball, I didn't learn as an adult. I learned how to make circuit boards in ninth grade with technology class. I learned how to use Adobe Photoshop Illustrator for artwork. I learned that in tenth grade with communications technology. I learned how to use a bandsaw, do wood glue, sanding, and metal refinishing in industrial technology in eighth grade. Those skills have stayed with me my whole life. So, yes, no, I definitely, I would wholeheartedly encourage that. And if at any point we are, a couple of us are talking about trying to create our own little expo event here, kind of an invitational for Classic Pinball, where we invite the public to bring games. I am open to having that be in all ages events and I would love for and this is an invitation if anybody wants to contribute help setting something up for STEM classes STEM students to actually see this I would love the first day during the day so it becomes maybe a field trip maybe not depends on whether it would work that students could actually come and see how these are all done and made I think that would be incredibly beneficial to the hobby down the road. And I think it's a better way for the community to grow.
    62:29
    Yeah, absolutely. Every year at our school, we have something like, I think it's, we call it like Cardboard Arcade or Kane's Arcade. Oh, I remember that YouTube video. I remember that. Yeah. Kane was a kid that made cardboard video games or like arcade games out of cardboard in his dad's shop. And so we do that every year is we let the students just use makerspace supplies and make arcade games like crane games or they try to make some sort of Pac-Man type of game or like a, you know, like a skeeball. But this year, I'm really encouraging students to make a pinball game. Like I want them to play the pinball at our school, get to know it. I mean, there's simple machines in the pinball machine that's hitting fifth grade standards, you know, like levers. and we can definitely incorporate pinball into their standards that they're learning on. And so encouraging them to make their own pinball machine and actually using what's called a makey-makey to have, like, actual things happen or ways to gain points with a little microprocessor.
    63:39
    It's basically just like a keyboard. Like when your ball, the metal ball makes a circuit complete, it gives you points on a laptop. So they're going to be programming that in and using just cardboard and aluminum tape to create circuits. And so I'm really excited about this year because, you know, I haven't really enforced like pinball as an option. I don't think kids really knew what pinball is. But now that we have one at our school that, you know, it's been restored and it's playable, I feel like we're going to have a lot more kids that want to have that challenge. And I think they get about two months to build this masterpiece game. Then everybody in the community comes and they play their games for free. It's just a great way to build community and see what they can do with their inventions. But I would definitely be a part of anything that you have going on and love to contribute to any sort of STEM-related stuff for kids to come and do. And I'd be happy to do like a little mini-makerspace type of thing, too. with any events that we have going on.
    64:44
    Yeah, no, by all means. I mean, as I said, it's one thing as the community, we've all helped each other as adults, you know, fix and work on stuff. But you're right. Where's the next generation? Where's the next group of kids that are going to remember playing this? That, no, I full-heartedly, I mean, anything you need to potentially have help promoting that or, you know, Thankfully, I've gotten to know some people within the industry.
    65:14
    We can do some stuff for that. Project Pinball is a nonprofit that has been putting pinball machines in hospitals, a nice charitable organization.
    65:26
    And I think that we could also do something more along the lines of just for general education purposes to the younger generation. We need people to want to do this. We want to inspire something.
    65:45
    You'd be surprised. You've chosen to become an engineer because you played a pinball machine. I would be thrilled with that.
    65:58
    I'm pretty sure that previous game designers and stuff like that would also create the little wistful twinkle in their eyes seeing a group of kids trying to design a game. And, yeah, no, I will definitely put some stuff together and we'll definitely have to contribute to that. But in that, I'm going to have to actually do a little bit of closing. It's been an insane week, but by all means, I will definitely pitch a product at Expo. I'm not a shill, folks. I'm just trying to help people that support our hobby because, guess what, without them, we don't have parts. We don't have a hobby.
    66:41
    It would just be a bunch of rich guys collecting stuff, and you don't need to be rich to be in this.
    66:49
    I appreciate what you do, too, as well, with your podcast. I always like enjoying listening to people's stories and things, so keep it up. You're doing great, and I love listening to your show. show I know and I I've I've been so thankful to anybody you know I I did take a long break there because while we're gotten saying there have been people that have emailed me from Australia saying hey are you gonna make another episode this is great I'm like like I I I don't know I'm my own worst critic they're like oh yeah I was listening to your podcast in the back of my head there's that little voice that goes why you like I think it's amazing keep keep up the great work I will and to you also keep up the great work I'm just trying to have some fun and trying to help people along learn, get help with their games you are responsible for bringing up the next generation I tip my hat off to you, thank you for continuing the hobby on a level that does not get spoken about as much with kids thank you no problem I'm already on the freeway I've burned my ass to work um i will keep in touch i will edit this and i will send the file to you so that it actually sounds cohesive i actually edit myself talking out of this a lot you piece of crap i can't imagine i would probably do the same i appreciate all the work you're doing and all the editing i'm sure i would be spending hours doing it i'm sure you do too so thanks for all you do matt oh no thanks thank you and yes we will keep in touch because we have to i did not know that you were going to do that came i remember when i saw that video and that was outside in front and the guy literally brought it brought it up on his youtube channel and then suddenly there were hundreds of people there to play those games the next day and he was using the calculators to hold the scores underneath all the devices and that he actually had a redemption code i remember all of that in fact i sent it off to my mom and i'm just like hey here's me when i was 10 yeah exactly I remember all that too it's it's the coolest story and and it's like the purest child story that we have all I mean most of us nerdy kids had we all made like little manuals or video game ideas and yeah it's it's amazing it's so cool it's it's cool to see that community came through and helped them and you know yeah and I think and I think that it's your point. I think it's because there's just not enough kids that are just getting out and actually doing something. I mean, my kids are hooked on Overwatch, man. Trust me. And we'll spend hours watching somebody else play it. And then I look back on that. We were all guilty of that, too. Remember, Nintendo games are typically only two players. If there was eight of us in the basement, we all spent hours watching somebody else.
    69:41
    Oh, for sure. But we were hoping to play. I'll let you go. I'll talk to you later. But yeah, we'll get something set up. Get me a link when those dates are.
    69:51
    Send those to me because I will post. I will actually bring that up because I'm doing five episodes for Expo. With the sixth wrap-up, I'm going to include that, and I want to put a video of that out.
    70:06
    A friend of mine, Jake Danzig, runs a lot with the Southwest Arcade Movement. He posts a lot of videos, a lot of reveals. He would definitely be interested in that. So just get the information to me when you can. I know adults are good, but I appreciate it. All right, thanks for your time. One day we used to just carve our score into the side of the machine.
    70:28
    R.A.M., you got any proof? The EM Scorekeeper, your electromechanical pinball solution for saving your high score. Non-invasive add-on that allows you to program your high score via the flipper buttons and probably show on an LCD display. Seats directly into the scorecard slots of the apron. Find out more at TheEMScoreKeeper.com.
    70:55
    This has been a Ruby Butt Production. Ruby, get out of the litter box!