All right, guys. Good morning from down under. I am not Chris Gonzo. He's busy getting ready for Pinfest in the UK this week. I have the lovely Jamie Burchil from the JBS show. Jamie, how are you?
I'm good, Enzo. How are you, brother?
I'm good, buddy. I'm good. What's going on? Ah, you know it's uh what 10 10 10 p.m.
I'm coming from the future. You're coming from the past.
Absolutely. You're already on Tuesday.
I'm already I'm already in [ __ ] Tuesday. I hate Tuesdays.
It's uh Yeah. Anyway, I got Diet Coke for those that don't know, right? Jamie, myself, and a few of the other pinball crew are mad Diet Coke fanatics.
Yeah. Um, and I remember when I was watching Jamie like over a year ago and he was drinking Diet Coke and it's become a thing, right? So, everyone that we normally talk to has Diet Coke. So, Diet Coke shits on normal Coke and it shits on Coke Zero. Do you have Coke Zero in the US?
Yeah, the Coke Zero is a backup to me, sir.
Okay.
The caffeine though.
Yeah, Coke Zero has caffeine.
Yeah. So, it's Diet Coke, then uh Coke Zero, then I'll drink a Pepsi Max.
Oh,
which is their like Coke Zero, and then I'll drink a Diet Pepsi. But more than likely after Pepsi Max, I'm drinking water.
Dude, there was a a Facebook I think I sent it to you where some guy goes, "We'll never have World Peace because Pepsi Max or Pepsi and Coke can't be in the same restaurant."
Yeah.
You know,
it can't. It's gross. there. Pepsi's gross.
So, uh, for those that don't know, so Jamie, um, has the JBS show on YouTube. We'll put a link in the description. Like, subscribe, all that stuff. Jamie was over at Wormhole. They did the Twippies last year, which I sponsored through my Australian Pinball Collective, which isn't a thing. There's more to that now in the future. We'll we'll talk on that. Uh, but man, it's been a big ride. Been some interesting [ __ ] on your end happening.
Yeah, you know, the wormhole closing was a bummer, right? It is a bummer. Um,
so is that fully closed?
For the time being, yeah,
for the time being, yeah, I I can disclose why I've never disclosed why
the wormhole closed, but they made it public. It's that, you know, the owners of the wormhole are having a or getting a divorce. And, uh, rather than be stuck in the middle of this, you know, divorce, uh, it just makes sense for me to go and do my own thing.
Yeah. Who gets Jamie?
Yeah. Well, I get Jamie. I just ne, you know, I never wanted to be Jamie from the something.
No,
right. I want to be Jamie at something like Jamie at Eureka Heights. So,
yeah,
that was just
So, sorry. So, you obviously got into pump pinball, we'll touch on that now, because of the wormhole. Is that what
Oh, yeah. I I I got into pinball because of uh one of the wormhole founders
and my buddy John Spates who's now at Eureka Heights.
So John really was the one that pushed me, pushed me, pushed me and uh got me into
it and uh it was awesome and I just got into it about 2018 2019 I started doing a lot of tournaments.
Yep. and got into the tournament scene and then got fully addicted during co fully addicted when the wormhole opened.
Yeah.
I love following your your tournament updates how Jamie did this week.
Oh, you do? Those are on Instagram, Tik Tok, and like YouTube shorts, right?
Yeah.
And I put them on Facebook reels or whatever.
Yeah.
Uh I did one the other day. Can Jamie play pinball? And the answer was no. Just I went no. And it was 8 seconds long. And it was I I got a big chuckle. I It took me like eight takes cuz I was laughing cuz it was just stupid. But
do do you do you remember like the first game you played that you went like pinball's got me hooked now?
Yeah, totally.
Totally. It was World Cup soccer.
Yeah. Okay. Awesome.
So, it was uh I'll tell it very quickly. I went to uh Game Preserve North here in Houston
and I didn't want to play in the tournament.
I just wanted to go and pay my 15 bucks and just watch because I just didn't know if I wanted to be in the scene yet. Right. This is this is
I'll come.
And John Spates paid for me. He paid my 15 bucks, right?
And I was like, I have to play now. And he's like, "Yeah, we're getting you this IFPA number. You're playing." And so I start practicing. I don't know, you know, I don't know any of the rules. I don't know anything. It's 20 beginning 2019. I don't know all these different machines. And World Cup soccer, I was like, "Well, I think I could just hit the goalie. I can do that a thousand times, right?" And then just follow the lights. And that game, all of a sudden, I was like, "Hold on. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I need to hit these ramps." I was watching someone, they're hitting the ramps and they're moving their progress on the game and everybody knows World Cup soccer, right? So, it's like it just was an aha moment for me. And what's funny is I own a World Cup soccer. It's the only machine I own
and a friend of mine, Brandon, shout out to Brandon Martin down in uh Clear Lake, he's housing it for me. And it's it's my still favorite machine cuz I had that aha moment like you're not just scoring goals, dude. You got to move cities.
Yeah.
You got to progress. You got to get to Germany. And uh Yeah, I love that machine. Damn, I love it.
It's funny. I actually multiple people that I speak to about like when did you get into it? Um what was the first game? And a lot of them say World Cup soccer and I think it's because obviously it's a theme that you know maybe out of I know us in the US soccer is not a huge thing but you know the rest of the world it is. and everyone I speak to is like that game is just so approachable by anyone. Doesn't matter how good you are, how new you are. Um, you know, it's it's a game that is really captivating and it has that one more moment. One and it can be your only game in the collection. That's the thing, right? Like
Yeah, it does. I'm sorry. This battery in this camera forget
I saw that the other day. So Jamie does on the JBS show, he does the round table with Retro Ralph and Cal Hernandez, which is hilarious if you haven't watched it. And Jamie's camera failed for the second time.
It is. It's pissing me off, man. It's pissing. It's too nice a camera. You see it's flicking just a little.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But is that a Sony ZV1?
Sony ZV1.
Yeah, that's what I've got. I'm not using it today because it shits me, too.
So, if it goes to crap, we'll just switch it over to the Facebook camera because it's starting to piss me off. But uh you know I started when we first started streaming at the wormhole I didn't know what I was doing Enzo and so it was uh just my technology was so bad
and then I got like really good at it like Carl D'Python Anghelo and Tom and all these guys started helping me
and then I started they
then when I started understanding the technology and really understanding OBS
uh I got flat out addicted to streaming at the wormhole That was one of my addictions.
And And your personality is perfect for it because you've got that uh radio voice and face for TV. So you've got two birds.
You see the [ __ ] camera, dude?
All right, we're going to have to change the camera. Is that okay?
Yeah, switch it. Don't worry about it. I just made it. It's raw. People love raw. So, um, yeah. So, what I was saying is while Jamie does that, so Jamie on JBS shows does interviews with other people. He does his streams uh with his commentating um and the round table which has Retro Ralph and Cal Hernandez. Hilarious banter and they say a lot of [ __ ] that gets them in trouble too but uh
yeah dude we're getting in a little more trouble than I thought. Um, so you know, just my progression, I went from streaming to the podcast and uh I became friends with them about a year ago and I bugged in their ear. I said, cuz our chats are wild, Enzo, our chats are wild and they're funny.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
And I said, "Guys, I'm telling you, this is a podcast. I think it's called the Pinball Roundtable. I've gamed it. I think we have to do this. And Kale was first on board. Like boom. Ralph was it didn't take much Ralph convincing either. All right. It just it didn't take not even a day for them to say yes. And they couldn't have been more generous to me because they had established channels. I'm starting over, you know.
I'm starting over after I left the wormhole. And they could have
I said, I think the three of us are very funny together because we're very different.
Yeah.
All right. Kale doesn't give a [ __ ]
He doesn't
doesn't give a [ __ ]
Okay.
Uh Ralph gives a [ __ ] and I'm somewhere in the middle, right? So, it's like uh that banter is great. Um and we all come from a different, you know, Ralph's the home collector. Big home collector. I go to the arcade and and Kale runs one. So, that's a pretty cool little mix.
Mix,
I think. I don't know. People really liking it, man. It's it's it does three to five times my other podcasts.
Oh, look, that's like anything like we do, you know, certain interviews with certain people don't get anywhere near the views that they do. Like if we were doing George Gomez, for instance, right? Like it's just
Did you get him a good mic? Would you get him a better mic?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I jokingly sent him a message saying, "I'm going to send you a mic and a camera."
What did he say?
Hasn't hasn't read it yet, actually.
Oh, okay. All right. I was really scared about that after I said that. I was like,
well, you know,
because they went on the Loser Kid podcast and Josh and Scott are brilliant. They're such good interviewers, right?
And he sounds like he's in a phone booth and it was like, come on, man.
You know, and what he had to say was so great
that it just took away a little bit from such a great interview. That's all I'm saying. You'd think that they would have, like you said, you guys touched on that, that they would have a dedicated room that anytime any one of your staff is doing an interview, you use that room, right? And that room is like sexy. It's got neons. It's got the cardboard cutout Gary Stern in the background.
Have you been there? Have you been to Stern?
No, I've been invited multiple times.
Listen, Enzo, there is a room there where they h have like a little bar. They hold all their Twippy, all their awards. uh the games and a a table there
with merch all behind them with a perfect backdrop of whatever they want and it's it's it's a makes no sense to me.
Yeah. Well, let's maybe
maybe you've made the catalyst change. Who knows? Let's see. I
I don't know. But uh it would be cool that you know they need to do that and and their social media presence is increasing ever. You can see it from the new CMO and what they're doing and especially with what Jack's gonna be doing. Uh because Jack is the the first, right? He's the first. He's the goat. He's the guy that we all said,
"Okay, I'd like to do this. I don't know if I have his personality. I sure can't play pinball or do things that he can do." Right?
But he gave us the blueprint. I mean, well, who does that,
right? like he goes, "Hey, here's how you stream. Here's all the equipment that you need. Here's how I built my rig." I don't think I mean I know Roger Sharp obviously is the founding father of probably where we are today and everyone gives him a lot of credit but if you really think about I don't think there's anyone else in the industry that has given what Jack Danger has in relation to starting the whole Twitch content uh pinball streaming introducing pinball to a lot of new people
doing it so passionately and so you know eloquently and [ __ ] detailed and everything but then becomes is a designer and designs two three games that have some phenomen paths are going to change the history of the way games are done right like you know so he's had such an impact that some will argue that maybe in 20 years time he's going to be the Roger Sharp of pinball I I don't know like of the modern the modern time that's a big comment
it is but it's not far-fetched right he what what he's done and what he could as as this new role in Stern. I'm excited. I'm buckling up. I can't wait to to see the streams and I hope he gets well after his surgery and his shoulder and uh and comes back,
you know, with Pokemon is what we're hearing, right? I mean, that's what we're going to that's what we're going to get
and you know, it's going to be great.
And that is the biggest license, right? You know who told me that Kale today? I was talking to KL and he goes Pokemon is the biggest license.
It's huge.
It's a huge
and what you can what you can do with a game like that while you know incorporating a new audience uh with Spike 3 and Insider Connect where I can play my Pokemon game with my Pokemon characters against yours at your house, right? And that would be cool, right? Like we can connect the games but we can actually burst each other, right? And you could do that with anyone in the world. I I think that's a move they should do, but is it cost effective? Is there an ROI on that right now? I just don't know. I just don't know.
But you remember, I don't know if you guys like Pokémon Go, the app was huge here in Australia where people
big here, too.
Yeah. Like people were flooding the streets looking for these Pokémon. Imagine if they did that with the game. You need to go find that pinball game,
right? And you play it and you get those Pokemon and you get characters. Like there's so much they could do. Oh, within Insider Connect. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Absolutely. That's a no-brainer. And I think I I really I'd be shocked if they didn't do it, Enzo. Right. I I'd be shocked if they didn't
put the entire power of Insider Connect behind it.
So, I I just think it's a it's the perfect game for it. And it's the perfect game of connecting like people. You know, I'm I'm in the most isolated city in the world, and if I have a Pokemon and you've got one, I'd love to know that I can play you in your home when I'm in my home and we're not wearing pants.
It'd be pretty wicked cool, though. It'd be pretty wicked cool. It' be pretty.
So, so yes, I think it's Jack Danger. And I do think it's being handled to Elwin. Elwin is a huge Nintendo fan. Um, and he I think he would have loved to have done Pokemon as well. So, it'd be the perfect collab to take it on and finish it. Um, so let's see. Let let's see. Um, so obviously the whole Warhamole whole thing we've touched on. You're at Eureka Heights now doing the content and stuff like that. Um, you so had you played pinball when you were younger at all or touched on it.
You know, I played a lot of arcade games.
Yeah.
So I would go to arcades es in Long Island, New York. I we would go to pizza joints and pump quarters in the Galaga. The same story that everybody has, right? But I got introduced to pinball at the Contemporary Hotel in Orlando, Florida. When I moved to Florida when I was like 16 years old, my
uh we didn't know anyone and I just had my younger brother and he was 13 and I could drive cuz I'm 16 now.
So we went to the Contemporary Hotel.
Yeah.
And you can go to the Contemporary, pay five bucks and play Popeye and all these games forever and ever and ever. And that's what we did
like our summer. But I started playing pinball because it's like think of that year. It's like 1988 89 1990
and there's some bangers coming out and I start understanding it a little but I never I if if Popeye was there I was going to Popeye. I don't know why that game just I pumped a [ __ ] ton of quarters in.
I mean it's a game that just looking at it is pretty captivating to be honest. So I can understand why. Um but so all right. So you then time goes past you end up obviously co everyone was in I mean co's what got me back into pinball because we couldn't go I used to go to the local arcade. There's only really one here and I couldn't right. So I used to I was hiring games off a friend of mine who rents them to people, right?
Um and then I was like I need to I need to get one at home because the kids it's getting the kids off the iPad. It's getting them wanting to play. It's helping with their motor skills. It's bringing us together as a family. Blah blah blah. All that stuff, right?
This is what you told everybody.
Yeah. So, like
Yeah. Yeah.
This is your sales pitch to the family.
This is why I'm going to spend all this effing money. This is
well I um there was an episode I done many many years ago when I joined Gonzo's where I explained that I was a vintage toy collector and retro gaming collector and everything lived in tubs for so long at one day I just turned around and was like what am I doing there's so much money sitting in these tubs nobody
like I had vintage Ninja Turtle seal everything was sealed right so
okay
so Ninja Turtles is like past me right because I'm 52 Right. So if you if you said GI Joe, we would have a long conversation.
There was some G.I. Joe toys. There was some uh toys that were like, you know, He-Man and all that type of stuff. I was collecting all that stuff. And it was just that my personalities, I need to be a completionist, which is impossible because some of these toys are worth 10 grand, right?
Um and one day I was just like, I need to get rid of all this stuff because it just nobody's using it. It's dead money. And I can reinvest that money into some pinballs. And that's basically that's what I did, right? And it's the best thing I ever did because along with that, it's brought the family together, which is true, but I've met so many new people. I've made so many friends, and it's one of the best communities I've ever been involved in. Um, the gaming community is great, but it can be
extremely uh toxic, even though so can pinball, but um it was just very different. Like, it's not as not as friendly, not as like
No, it you're right. I I was heavily involved in Call of Duty and uh and playing I played a [ __ ] ton of Gears of War.
Oh, yeah.
I was in a Gears of War clan.
Yep. I love Gears of War.
Oh, I love Gears of War. But it got shotgun oped and yada yada yada, but I was really into that video game and crap with my kids.
Yeah.
And uh it was Tim that said, "Hey, come over to my house and and uh play some pinball." and kind of started me down that crazy road.
Yeah, I'm forever trying to get anyone I meet um I try and wear wear pinball stuff and and just anything that can trigger con like convers I'm like the I'm like the vegan who tries to tell you to not to that you should be a vegan. Um but with pinball
yeah the thing is how do you know someone likes pinball? They open their mouth, right? I mean we don't we don't shut the hell up about it because we're passionate and we love it which is why I love the round table. It's one of my favorite things is it all we really are doing is three buddies sitting together and bullshitting about pinball. And I'll talk pinball with someone all night. And so when I go out to dinner with me, John, Janine, and Christine, if we all go out to dinner,
John and I have to stop talking pinball cuz the girls are going to lose their mind.
Lose that [ __ ] Yeah.
No, they don't lose it. They just we can see them glancing over and we're like, "All right, we got to ease up on the pinball because we love it so much. like we're just so passionate about it. And
I was down the Grand Canyon for 15 days, right? I did a the entire river, the Colorado River.
We couldn't There were three of us that were all in a pinball with my wife Janine. And we like what lasted four days before we started spreading the word of pinball within the 21 guests on this tour. We got two of them. Two people live down by an arcade. We drove all the way down there to meet them there so that they could play in a pinball tournament.
Yeah.
And they had the best time. They loved it.
There you go. So, was it was uh doing those 15 days a little bit like coming off crack when you're like cuz there's no pinball in the Grand Canyon, right? Were you like, "Oh my god, I need pinball."
We did. You know, we were actually pissed because uh Kale and Rachel had a arcade in uh Flagstaff. So, we were like, "Okay, we could drive from here, you know, get our go to the electric bat in Flagstaff, then get to the Grand Canyon, and then on the night we get out, we can go." But when we booked it, but then they sold that location and took all the games out, and we were like, "Oh, that's a bummer."
Yeah. No big deal.
All right. So, I think like, you know, so we gave everyone a little bit of uh I don't want to bore people with like we could talk forever about it, but like so jump on Jamie's channel, go watch the videos.
Yeah.
The the round table's phenomenal, so do that. Um why don't we talk about like where things are at today, right? So, there's been some awesome rumors, titles. Um what's obviously we know World Cup is a game that you love playing. What's a what's a couple games that at the moment are really like captivating you that have been released in the last year or two?
So, I just got to play Harry Potter. Uh, it just came in Heights
and I got to play it. I've put about 10 games on it. Um, I don't know the scoring yet. I'm not there, you know, and this is no criticism of JJP's. It's just a little more complicated. So, I need some more time on this machine. Whereas you could step up uh in the beginning of Kong and you can kind of figure it out, right?
Yeah.
This is a little more complicated. The scoop shot's a pain in the ass. I'm not going to lie to you. Okay.
It's like a double scoop. There's a uh they got like a little Legends of Valhalla thing going on.
Oh, yeah.
Kind of. Um but it's uh it's good. I I I really liked it. The Quidditch is unbelievable
when you get going up there. By the way, it's a [ __ ] ton of points right now. Current code.
It's crazy. And everyone reckons it's one of the most uh captivating upper playfields in pinball.
Oh, no question.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's awesome.
This super little ramp thing. It's Have you played it?
No, we we there's one that's landed in Melbourne, but that's 4,000 km away.
Um, so yeah, we we will be a while before we play it. So,
um I mean I I only just got Evil Dead. That's how behind we are.
Okay. How what do you think of Evil Dead? Because that's the second game I'm playing a [ __ ] ton.
Uh man, Evil Dead. Uh like I am not into the theme. I wasn't into the theme originally. I don't mind horror, but it's not my go-to. Uh I hadn't watched the movie since I was a kid, but it was the FOMO. And also, you know, I'm really friend good friends with Don from Don's Pinball Podcast.
Yeah.
And he kept saying, "Have you bought Evil Dead yet? Have you bought Evil Dead yet?" And he's like, "You're going to miss out. you're going to miss out. And you know, I got to give it to him. He's one that pushed me, but it is probably the most well done theme integration of a game in like, and I've played a lot of pinball. Um, I think the the artwork is some of the best artwork package in the history of pinball. I know that's a big call, but the color scheme, the the what Franchie does is just next level.
It's beautiful.
And I love the game. Oh, the game is just the the modes, the way the modes are, the the insanity mode where everything every mod mech mech in the game is going nuts and you got to shut them down. The the interesting thing about this, and I had this conversation last night, um, and I said this to Kerry Hardy as well, was that as a layout, it is very basic. It is just a fan, like I mean, most games are fan layouts, but there's nothing like there's no intricate ball paths. There's no uh there's nothing innovative about Evil Dead as a layout. In theory, Texas Chainsaw has actually got better ball paths and um some different things that you know we've never we had never seen in pinball, right? But it doesn't matter. Like it literally doesn't matter. Um and it is as a total game. It is captivating and I can see why it's sold out very quickly and I can see why everyone's trying to get one because the pins list of wanted ads for an evil dead just keep growing.
I know I I look I I've been looking um now it has its detractors, you know, it it has some detractors uh at Eureka Heights. Sorry, this is God that we uh No, it's it's one of my hairs because I got this long hair. I I have ADD. I'm sorry. Uh it uh it has its detractors. Okay. There are people that don't love it. There are people that don't know the code and don't understand, you know, maybe some of the paths you want to take on a tournament. Uh and and maybe Evil Dead 2 or or whatever. Um there are some people that maybe spend a little too much time on the boomstick. Uh whereas they should really be focusing on modes and and and such. But uh I I I really I dig it. I play the hell out of it. Again, my only problem with Spooky is Insider Connected. They don't have Insider Connect. They don't have their own thing. They don't have Scorbit. They don't have so
it it it it's when you go to Eureka Heights. I mean, they have 23 machines now. They've grown crazy. and say the internet's down, you're almost like, uh, I don't even know if I want to play because I'm not going to get any achievements.
And so that's the thing when you go and you play an Evil Dead,
you know, but,
uh, Eureka, really quick, I'll give them a shout out.
They're building a spooky row and, uh, let me see if I can get all the machines. So, it's Evil Dead. Uh, Scooby-Doo is right next to it. than the Jetsons.
Nice.
Which is really kind of cool where they didn't make a lot of those. And this is a purple one which is pretty even more rare.
I'd love to get a Jetsons.
Uh it's kind of fun. It's not a good tournament game. It annoys you
because it's the code is really basic. It also sucks to stream to be honest. No offense to Spook,
but uh because you can't they never show the score and so they never show the score on this game. You're trying to stream it and you're like Everyone at home's like, "What the hell the, you know, what did player three have?" And you're like, "No idea. They didn't code that [ __ ] in."
Uh then at TNA, they got a TNA delivered any day now.
Nice.
Uh Halloween and Rick and Morty.
Look, they they do, you know, everyone used to kind of critique their reliability in QC. I haven't had a problem with any of my spookies ever, right? And between me and my friend Shane, we've got, you know, Looney Tunes, um, Rick and Morty, Alice Cooper,
Yeah. like, and they and they've all they're all so unique. They're all different. They're all captivating. Like you they're made by people that love pinball, right? Yeah.
And they care about the themes. They choose themes that they care about and they know that at least a thousand people care about it, right? Um,
no question. Good company. Uh, I I support them and Eureka supports the hell out of them. You know, there are arcades that get beat on more that may have problems, but at Eureka, Taylor Buckley is one of the best operators on the damn planet and he knows how to make those things shine. And uh,
well, Kale Kale was saying on your channel as well that like it hasn't missed a beat for them either.
Yeah, El hasn't missed a beat.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. But we haven't had any problems with all those machines. And you know, Rick and Morty gets a lot of crap, okay? Because people don't like it. But I had Scott Danesi on uh years ago on the Wormhole channel and it's my the RSS feed is still the same. So
yeah,
he uh he tells you how to play it.
You know, he's like you got to get mega seeds, right? because that's vitally important and you got to stay on the right side of the playfield. The left side of the playfield's terrible. You don't want to be over there. It's terrible.
And he's right, you know. And uh I I had this guy Craig Hughes, shout out to Craig. He hated Rick and Morty. He's like, I can't put up more than two, three million in a tournament. And I sat him down, we watched, we played the game together, and he put 21 million up. because it is it's about mega seeds, right? It's a great game. Get those mega seeds, man. Go to different dimensions and go to it's awesome.
It's an awesome game. Yes, it's there's a couple shots that are really, you know, controversial, but at the end of the day, you know, it's it's it's a total package. If you love the theme, Scott Danesi, he just slaps everything he does. Um his music, his uh his layout. Uh
they did rules on that Bowen, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, come on. Bowen knows what he's doing. And uh yeah, definitely great game. Love Rick and Morty.
Yeah. So, I'm really excited to see, you know, the rumor is that they have Beetlejuice next. Um
Yeah.
And they're going to probably do a thousand games this time. Maybe 999 is the rumor. Um
I haven't I haven't heard that. I I did hear Beetlejuice though. And
uh you know, don't do the second Beetlejuice. Don't do Toy Story 4.
No, no, no, no, no. You don't want that crap.
No, that knowing Bug and Luke well enough that they, you know, they wouldn't make any mistakes like that.
Yeah.
Um, but look, I, you know, to be a little bit more family friendly as such, I guess. Yes. Beetlejuice is a bit more family friendly.
Yeah, it's PG-13, right?
Yeah. So,
you got that Deo song. What was that? Deo. That'll be on. Yeah,
that'll be a Deo multiball and
Yeah, for sure. For sure. So,
absolutely.
Oh, and their support. I mean, shout out to Spooky's support. you you email them, they respond, they you can call them, you can FaceTime them, they're so approachable. Um, and you know, and I hope they stay like I want companies to grow and get better, but I just don't want them to grow too much because you kind of lose that essence of like a familyrun business where it's kind of approachable and, you know, they're involved in a lot of conversations online discords and, you know, it's cool that they're so with the community. Um, they put polls up in their Discords about like, would this make a good theme? Do you like modes this way? Like, it's it's really engaging and it's shout out to them because we're going to have Bug on the channel tomorrow hopefully.
Oh, good. Well, Spooky owners are very passionate. You can see it, right? Yeah. You guys are
You drink the Kool-Aid, so that's cool. It's a good Kool-Aid. Tastes good.
Yeah. Yeah. Big spooky shill. Um, have you had much time on June? I have not had much time on Dune. I got to play Dune the the the the second code update.
Yep.
And that's that was a game changer.
You know, it definitely changed, you know, with the call outs and with the other things. It's it's it's a much better game. She's really good.
Uh you I highly recommend it in a darker room.
Yeah.
Okay. Because the light show is pretty awesome and the worm is badass. I I you know, shout out Travis Moseman. He did a great job with it. I I really like the machine.
Yeah, I I love what they did with Labyrinth. Um we had a Labyrinth for a while. Um really well put together. It was just a It was a very hard shooter for
It's a hard game for the kids, right? I I had it here in I had it here in the house as well. I housed it. And
my daughter-in-law had a tough time with Labyrinth. She's like, "When is this one leaving?" And it wasn't it crapped on it. She just like it's just too hard for me because she's she's a brand new player.
Yeah. Yeah. Some of those shots were I mean I'm not a great player, you I'm probably ranked somewhere between 15 and 20,000 in the world, but like I don't really participate in comps either, but it's just that I just want to be able to have fun and uh not feel like I'm just getting angry because there's a few games at the moment we can touch on that uh that are giving me that feeling. And Labyrinth started giving me that feeling because I was like,
I really like the theme, but I just I'm struggling with it. I'm struggling with hitting certain shots and it just wasn't doing it for me. So, I'm glad to hear that June is a is a better shooter.
Yeah. I I I again, I don't think Glabin's a bad shooter. It's just hard. It's just harder, right? You know, those ramps are tight.
Uh and they're vital to do if you're going to get, you know, the OB mode and you're going to get through those modes because you got to get through the modes. So,
uh, but, um, yeah, Dune's definitely an easier shooter, uh, now with the call outs and now with it directing you. They do a good job with that little screen.
Oh, yeah. Even the way it's cinematic, right? Cuz the screen has elements of your mode that then you've got to hit in line with the screen. Like,
this is chopper that goes across. It's wicked cool. So, and I'm so excited to see Jeff on it from Dirty Pinball. Um,
big fan of Jeff. Jeff's great.
Yeah, Dirty Pool. I always say Dirty Pinball, too. Uh, he
Yeah, I like him. He's come on the scene pretty hot and heavy. And good for him. He's He's a nice dude.
Yeah. And he's he does uh for those that don't know, check him out. um he does uh audio mixing and is working on June now to to incorporate better sounds and sound effectses and and all that. So um it'll be interesting to see you know how how he comes along. Um
the I want to hear your take and your experience with Dungeons and Dragons because there's a real divide in the community on Dungeons and Dragons. Right. So, Dungeons and Dragons was created with a theme that they had hoped would bring in a lot of newbies to this hobby, right? Because it's such a big theme for Dungeons and Dragon players, right? The issue is, all right, is that I I love the storytelling element, the character buildup, the trinkets, the shop, the the call outs, the storytelling. Right.
Yeah.
But the layout, it's not fun for me personally. For me, now I'm not the only one that feels this way. Jeff feels the same way.
Jeff feels this way heavily.
Feels this way.
I've argued with Jeff about this. What his point is
the upper, you know, the King Kong biplane shot
that they have basically in Dungeons and Dragons, right? You know, the upper flipper boom shot. You can't get to that unless you can go to gizmo shot. Okay. And eject it out.
Or you can backhand or depending what flipper you on that little inner loop orbit thing.
Yeah.
Next to
which is a hard shot.
It's
it's [ __ ]
it's [ __ ]
It's so when the whole game is based on getting the ball to that upper flipper for me, right? I don't know who's like I get it, but I don't know who kind of went, "Yeah, this is gonna get new people in the hobby." Like,
it's too Yeah, it is. It too hard.
It's way hard.
It might be too hard. Now, I'll I I'll give him props for this. Dragon's wicked cool.
Oh, [ __ ] yeah.
Especially the premium. Those eight balls. It's badass.
Yeah. uh when your Dungeons and Dragons is totally dialed in and the shield comes up and the ball is laying there and if it does hit the right ramp or the left orbit ramp, that's cool,
which is rare because that shield moves when it goes up and down. It constantly shifts. So, it's
shouldn't it's supposed to stay there and
you know, so I've been on locations where that doesn't work.
Yeah. Uh, and it's in it's vital because you could use
I could never get mine to it.
Yeah. See, that's another problem that I'm hearing about it.
Yeah. So, when you
Yeah. When when you're doing your T-chart, right? When you're doing your T- chart
Yeah.
it it the game comes out what, like a B+.
Yeah. Yeah. B.
A solid B. It's, you know, it's a solid B. The code is the code makes it better. The problem also is it is dungeons or dragons. And Jeff is right about that because especially in a tournament when you're [ __ ] around in that dungeon, it's such a waste of time
cuz you're the most you're going to get out of there is 15 million, maybe 20 million.
Yeah.
And you have so many shots you had to hit. You're much better off traveling and going. But that's it's probably one of the most unique pinball experiences in relation to the code and the traveling element and the storytelling and the character development. Much better than like Venom was good. Like yes, you build up your character, but this is next level, right?
It's totally next level.
And I want to enjoy it, but unfortunately I had to move mine on. I
really
I had to move it on. And you know, I get criticized for being a stern shill really badly, right? And I do drink their cordial a little bit, but I I have to say Dungeons and Dragons and I'm going to say something controversial now. King Kong, they they both they both have really kind of frustrated me.
Okay, we can talk about Kong if we put tie a bow on Dungeons and Dragons because I do think the code is really badass. Dungeons and Dragons.
Oh yeah, it is a genius.
Yeah, he really is. He really is. I gota uh Okay, let's go on the Kong now. Um, have you played the new code that just came out?
Yeah, I've got I've got Kong here.
You've got Kong here? Okay.
Yeah, it's in the other room.
So, I've had a lot of time on Kong. That's probably the third I'm playing the most right now. And and Batman 66. I still play the [ __ ] out of Batman6. And um with crossing the chasm and some of the modes need a little work. All right. What what I I still mean is they don't like Crossing the Chasm is a little overpowered than Stegosaurus and some of the other modes,
right? So if you're playing it as a tournament and you f up
crossing the chasm,
you know, save an maybe. I don't know. So you know what, you know what I'm trying to say there? I'm screwing this up.
No, no, no. Like I I totally agree. Sorry, I'm just getting this work thing out of the way because it is uh 12:00 here. Um so one of the things with Kong I'm struggling to connect with it. I think it's the modes a little bit. Um, obviously being an original RP in a sense, it is very similar to the original movie, some of the stories in it and the modes in it, but some of the modes I'm just really struggling with. They all feel very similar. Um, I'm not connecting with the game, but the problem is I'm having, and again, I'm not a great player, so that's on me, sure. But, um, if you can hit those shots, it's butter. Like, it is a flow monster, bro.
It is. It is. You can get Chasm going.
Y
it is such a flow. Now, I'm not a great player either. I'm 3,800th in the world, dude. No good.
Right. But, uh I just love playing and I love the competition. I love the camaraderie. That's why I play.
Yeah.
And you Yeah. Okay. I could see that you you're you're going to put it in the B range. I think you
I think the code is not there yet still.
It's not even just the code though, Jamie. Like for me, the two posts in the middle of the playfield which protect the biplane ramp entry get they get in the way a lot. Right.
Yeah, they do.
That that left out lane is a [ __ ] drain monster. The the um center post a lot of the time doesn't work for me because the ball's just moving too fast. Yeah.
And I'm like,
it's very rare that you're going to get a bounce up center post. Old school. And and honestly, my game was in a carpet room, and I never have a problem on the carpet. I actually moved it to the living room on the tiles, so I could actually The game really needs you to slap it around and nudge it,
which other games do too. Sure. But I really feel that this one really needs it. And when the spider gets the ball and chucks it in your right right out lane, right?
You know, and and I'm just going,
so they got to add a ball save, right? They got to add a little ball save there
off. As soon as it comes off the spider, you need a ball save.
All right. Maybe, maybe not. No, I don't think so. You're not getting
Or maybe just in the right out lane. Just in the right out lane.
I don't know. You're probably not getting that. And
probably not. But the left out lane like is just,
you know, and there's elements and I, you know, again, I don't want to sound like a Debbie Downer, but like when when Elwin went on record and kind of said he didn't really want to make King Kong and George had to like persuade him to, I kind of feel there's elements of that I can feel in the design because there's a few areas that feel a bit bandady to me.
And the left out left out is one of them. Yeah, man. I'll get
I like the left out lane because it's really neat with the river coming through
and blocking the river. It It is cool. So, the left out lane totally makes sense with that
what they're incorporating there. All right. Listen, the greatest thing about pinball is that if you don't like it, you don't have to get it, right? But you have it. I mean, so that's unlucky there. But
I'm struggling. I'm struggling to get I sit between 80 mil and 150 mil all the time.
Okay.
But I have more games I have more games where I get under 50 and I rage quit and leave.
So Jaws is that way to me.
See that's interesting.
Okay. So Jaws, dude, I'm 50 million or 300 million. But is that because Okay, he's a 300 because Yeah, but it but the jaws the ball stays alive a lot longer than in King Kong.
Yeah, there's more playfield.
Yeah, but it just it doesn't drain anywhere near as much, right? So,
yeah, there's more there's less [ __ ] to hit in the middle
the jaws. I feel that if you know the code, you know how to score points, but if you don't, then you're always going to sit under a 100, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because if you know the code, you're not really wasting your time with the first multiball. And
yeah,
you know, you're you're doing
much more what is it thing count? Shark encounters and you're you're really working on your shark encounters and and your mo I just don't know that game as well as I've started to learn Kong, you know. So,
yeah. Look, with Kong, I love the shots you can do, the combos with the left orbit, the biplane ramp, and then, you know, you get your super super secret, super duper skill shot, which if you can nail six of them in a row is great. Um, but there's nothing in between. It's either you have a good game, you have a really [ __ ] game.
So, it doesn't it doesn't uh look at your eye. It doesn't, you know, what am I trying to say? It doesn't, you know, fit your eye. It it it might not be a game that that toot your horn, dude. Forget it.
Yeah, I know. But I'm just so I'm so like devastated because like I'm gonna I'm gonna keep I got guys that keeps telling me like Don texts me randomly and goes, "Play better.
Play better."
All right. Yeah. I mean, there there's some of that, but if if it doesn't suit your eye, right? I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Uh
yeah,
then forget it. Then dump it.
You know what game I couldn't suit? Like again, you know, these games where they don't I I can't play Star Wars.
Yeah.
Can't play it. I think it's a ridiculous game. And you know, I think you're pounding an action button like a lunatic and you got to move all this [ __ ] And I don't know which R2-D2 or Han Solo or Tie Fighter or H. Forget that. And the story is all over the place in Star War and got episode six. Like [ __ ]
why why am I on the Death Star and I haven't even met Princess Leia yet.
I know it's it's bananas, right? So that game but if you someone who knows the code and loves that [ __ ] and loves the flow, they'll they'll fight you talking about it. They're like, I love Star Wars.
Yeah,
but I can't put up 300 million.
No, that's terrible. Yeah. So,
new Star Wars, huh?
New Star Wars. So, for me, this is an awesome Everyone's like, "Oh, is it really going to be four, five, and six again?" And I really hope it is because I feel that they had
they had a they had a game that wasn't meant to be Star Wars. It didn't go their way. They reskinned it as Star Wars. And you can feel that it's been reskinnmed. It's, you know, for a Star Wars fanatic, it's missing toys and mechs. Um, for it's missing the storytelling element. I want to play it like Harry Potter where I visit every film, right? As opposed to visiting characters and then like I'm just appearing in the middle of a [ __ ] Death Star for no reason. Um like I think this is their way Yeah. their way of going, okay, well look, the first time it was good. It still sold well. Star Wars is always going to sell well even if it's [ __ ] But like the new one, if it is similar to John Borg's original Data East Star Wars, which he also designed, right, and he's rumored to be on this one, I'm okay with that. Like, as long as it's just modernized and, you know, there's rumor that it's going to be heavily about Empire Strikes Back, but still have the other films as well. Like, it's probably going to have a massive walker in the back and bit of snow,
a littleat and all that crap,
at whatever the hell they call it.
I don't know. I don't know.
So, yeah. Look, I think they can. I mean, but that's a license that you could just milk it till the cows come home. Like,
it's one of the best license. They they've got massive licenses if they do have Pokemon.
If they do have I mean, they have Star Wars and that they've released four, five, and six. I was kind of hoping that like the Ellie would be black with Darth a lot of Darth Vader. It probably will though because there's that there is rumors of Darth Vader like having a big presence. Um, you know, I think it was one of the reasons why the Empire Strikes Back Pinball we got, you know, in the 80s was so popular because it had that Darth Vader head on it and, you know, it was about the best film [ __ ] ever made really.
Oh yeah.
You know, so
episode five is the best.
Yeah. um you know, an element of me as a as a a 40-year-old man going back to watch episode one, two, three, I appreciate them much more now than when they came out.
They're actually very good. You got to watch them again.
Really?
Oh, you got to watch them again as a as a
You're not going to get me You're not going to get me to like anything Jar Jar Banks. I skip if I go watch episode one,
I'll skip the anything Gungan.
I don't really give a [ __ ] about the Googans. I try to skip anything with the kid pod racing because that's embarrassment. That kid is like the worst actor they could have possibly gotten.
That's fake. Yep.
Right. Like dog [ __ ] acting and then um it's just a And then the the the puppet Yoda in the first one looks like [ __ ] and then uh I don't know, man. Episodes one, two, three, the second and third are very good for you.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the now Darth Maul
pretty badass in episode one.
That whole fight scene is is epic with the John Williams music. Okay, so I typically just skip to that if I just show me that that's the best part of the movie.
Well, look, I mean e either way, John Borg I know John Borg as a designer frustrates people because some of his games are they're either very similar or very hard. Um I loved Rush's layout. I think Rush layout is better than Metallica. I just struggle with the theme. I don't like the B. I didn't even heard of the band until the game come out.
Get out of town.
Never. Now Australia. Rush. Like give me ackadaka and like Kiss. Sure. But I we
there is a lot of people in Australia that never heard of Rush before, right? Um
which I get it.
Rush is harder than King Kong.
No. See, I have a [ __ ] great time on Rush. See, that's why Pinball's the best, Enzo, because that's a ridiculous statement, but that that's why Pinball's the best. You like Rush.
I can't I can't get 15 million on Rush. Okay,
so Rush has that [ __ ] in the middle of the playfield, too, right? But I can just But you just go past it. It doesn't like jank your game and drain your balls, right?
Like sounded terrible, but um like But you know, Borg can be frustrating for some people. I love a lot of his stuff. Like I loved his
Iron Man. It's simple, you know? I love the the Tron. Um the music pins. Yeah, I'm a bit over them, but like Kiss wasn't great for me. I find that really boring. Um no, was it Did he do Kiss?
No idea.
Maybe he didn't. Maybe. No, that was Steve Ritchie, I think. Oh, I'm
Don't get me lying. I I don't have my notes in front of me.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um
I don't know every single designer of every single game. Most people do. A lot of people do. So, I I find their intelligence amazing can, you know, that they can keep all this in their head, but I'm pretty good, but not that great.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Um, it's not even loading now. We We're getting smashed with bad Carl Weathers here. And in Australia, every time it rains, it's got the worst. Like, our internet, people don't know how to drive. Our internet goes [ __ ] crazy. Um, no, it is John Borg. What am I talking about?
All right. Well, good. There you go.
Anyway, so yeah, but like some of his stuff can be frustrating. So, I know some people like, "Oh, really? Um, you know, Steve Ritchie is a great designer and everything, but there's a lot of repetition. Like Elton John is just Star Wars Ellie, Stern Star Wars, and Star Trek NextG. You put them side by side and you look at them and you like overlap them. Like I photoshopped an image just to prove a point to someone cuz he's like Elton John is nothing like Star Trek from Stern. I was like, it is identical. Instead of the piano, you've got the Enterprise, you've got the warp ramp, you've got that on Elton John. like there are so many elements and like and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. But like, you know, he's a he's don't know.
Yeah.
Maybe.
No worries. I like Elton John. It's a fun game. It's a cool shooter,
you know. Uh do I want an Elton John in my house? Probably not. I don't love Elton that much. I mean,
well, there's no doubt. Elton John is a hell of a fun time, especially when off and the music. But if you've got Star Wars and Elton John in your collection, you're probably going to go, "I'm playing the same game is my point,
you know." So, I don't I don't know many people that own both. Let's put it that way. Um, uh, what's your take on all this Predator stuff?
Oh my god, they botched that, huh?
[ __ ] hell. I was involved. So, those that don't know,
and I don't know if I've told you this, so I was involved in the launch of that game. Like I was talking to him months before they were like I was under NDA with some stuff like you know and it was and I reached out to them multiple times saying let's get Gonzo to your factory. Let's do something. Let's record something. Let's get a game to the channel. You know it's a safe channel. Gonzo can be critiqued very, you know, very tastefully and professionally. He's not going to like rage quit on you. um you know he'll tell it how it is and give you feedback and blah blah blah crickets they wanted to do it their way which ended up being botched. I love Daniel from Pinball Brothers but he's not the right person to be doing interviews um because he's just he doesn't mean to be. He's just his personality is real really mellow.
Probably a little monotone.
A little monotone. And that's okay. But like maybe have someone else with you to pick up.
Don't you want a hype man, right? I mean, you kind of want a hype man.
You want a hype man, you know? And they tried it with Chenus, but Changus isn't everyone's cup of tea. I love the boy and he's my boy, but like I know a lot of people
don't struggle with Chenus a little bit because his energy and his voice is too much and blah blah blah.
Yeah. But
I like I like Jenus.
Yeah, Jenus is great. But you know, but at the same time, like, you know, we are now a few months after the release of Predator, and nobody has seen one in the wild. No one has played one. Um,
you know,
that company's in trouble,
man. Especially,
they just released the US thing. Did you see the US non-tariff thing? Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. So, they just shut all the distributors in the US, basically.
Yeah. So, if you're a distributor, how how happy are you when that came out, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
You're like,
"What?
So, I'm supposed to show your game. I'm supposed to buy your game,
take orders for your game, but you're going now direct, and you're beating me on price."
Yeah,
that makes sense.
Yeah. And when you stop production of a game, not even 6 months, that you know, you've got problems. Now, I think the rumor is that there's a licensing expiry on it. I'm like, why would you make a game if you only had six months licency? Um, you know,
I I run a small business and and sometimes I I am baffled by this industry. I'm baffled at some of the decisions that these guys make and and I and I I don't want to be the guy that comes on a podcast and shits on anybody.
That's not who I am. I I'm just not that guy. But
[ __ ] it. Let's do it anyway. But
you can't launch a game without Arnold [ __ ] Schwarzenegger, right? Yeah.
How could you do that? Now you you did it with Highway did it without Ripley and that was a big mistake, right? And then they get Ripley and that's good move, right? But
but you're never going to get Arnold. It's just too expensive.
Okay, then you can't make the game.
Well, I think there's elements that you could use a really good voiceover actor, right? And and use I still believe you could get Arnold footage. I'm not asking you to get Arnold to do call outs and shield game.
Okay, that's what I mean. He's not gonna shill the game. He's not gonna get call outs. He's not sitting down. That's millions of dollars. No chance. Okay, I get
I'm hoping for you to use Chengers to do the call outs.
Well, just get the words right for God's sakes. They get the words right. I mean, my god. But, uh, which I don't really care. I went and rewatched that movie
recently cuz I was like, "All right, this is going to come out. Let me let me watch this movie.
It come.
It is dirty. If you think about it, hold on. Think about this. You're talking about a movie with a very basic script that's set in one area basically, right? And what they did artistically with that film. It's pretty captivating.
All right.
You're glossing over, aren't you? Have you had enough?
I just I had a nap. Have
you had a nap today?
I did. I got one in. Uh, it's fine. It's fine. You know, it sounds okay.
It deserves a
Listen, I like Jesse the Body Ventura more than anybody. I loved The Body, but uh you know, it's just an okay movie. It's not, you know, Commando or there other things. Terminator, the other things that Arnold does, but I mean, if you get the license and you don't have him, but and you can't even show him, you can only show his ankles,
then what are you doing? It doesn't make
it doesn't make any sense. That makes no sense, right? And then when you stream it now, I have history of streaming games uh that are launched. I streamed uh Labyrinth and and the the pressure on you to do this. I streamed the Twippies and we and the internet went down. [ __ ] happens, dude. And so there's a lot of stress when that happens. But you got to have a hype man sitting next to you. You got to explain the game and we got to turn it up so we can hear it
and at least play one round through without us talking.
Yep.
That's vital to be played. And especially when you don't have any to show anyone and you don't have any to get out there for people to play, your first thing out of the gate's got to be money.
Yeah.
Got to be money. You got to be money. Cuz now what they're unfortunately doing is they're just selling they this is the parts that they've got probably, right? Let's
Yep.
And let's just get rid of this and let's move on to the next game.
But how can you do that when Predator Let's say Predator is a dud.
Y
then ABBA was a dud.
Queen
Queen's a dud. Boy, I'm just [ __ ] all over him.
I just don't think I just don't think they can they can
they can last. they can get out of this. I don't think they can get out of this now.
I think the name is unfortunately this hobby is brutal though.
This hobby is tough, man. And if you if you don't put up bangers, if you
you know they'll let you but even, you know, if you look at Spooky's progression,
you know, they weren't putting out ABBA,
you know, they weren't putting out that quality. They were putting up much higher quality than those. So, it's like
if your machine comes out and I had this conversation, this is a good one. You ready for this one?
Hit me.
What's the worst stern pinball machine made in the last six years?
So, in Spike 2.
Yeah. In Spike 2, would you say Led Zeppelin?
I'd say Led Zeppelin.
Okay. Let's say Led Zeppelin for the case, right? Would you rather have a Led Zeppelin or a Predator? Well, it's hard because like I haven't played Predator, right? Like would you I love Alien. I I love Alien. I love how Alien Shoots feels that it's very atmospheric. So, if it's like that
and they can sort this issue with the the footage of Arnold, I don't give a [ __ ] if it's a voice actor. Right. Then I would choose Predator.
Okay.
Right. But
my my argument with the roundt guys has always been if you can't beat Stern's worst machine in the last six years, what are you doing? What are you making machines for?
Pred Predator is technically whirlwind 2.0, right? It's very similar to whirlwind.
It looks similar to whirlwind.
Very similar. It's just a wide body without the spinning discs, but the rest of it is very similar. Now, that to me can be that can be money. That can be money, right? It may play amazing. We may just be [ __ ] on it because unfortunately they've botched it, but it could still play amazing right now. I
I hope they have some at Expo. I'm going to be going to Pinball Expo in Chicago. I hope
and and I'm sure there'll be some there. And I I'll give it a great critique.
But, you know, just critiquing the launch
unfortunately. Yeah, you're right. They they pretty much botched it.
Yeah. Yeah. And then they don't, you know, are they getting back with Chenghus and then he got upset, you know, it's just crazy.
Well, look, if Canada and Changis can get back together, anything's possible. Um,
who knows?
Who knows?
Um, so yeah, look, I don't know. It's Look, we we reached out, multiple people reached out. They just were wanted to do it their way, and it's it's going to hurt them. But, um, moving on. Um,
yeah. Uh, I want to talk about X-Men.
All right.
The new code.
Yeah. I love X-Men, man. My watch is, you can't really see, but my my screen on that is like the little danger zone.
Yeah, I see it.
Right. Like I love X-Men. I think what Jack Danger did with that layout, that ball's doing weird [ __ ] And, you know, did it have some issues? Was it rushed? We know it was rushed. We know it was meant to come out in December. It wasn't. Uh, and Dn D wasn't ready, so they swapped and it got rushed and it had issues and the code was
Is that confirmed? Is that confirmed? I I just nodding away.
George George confirmed that the game he he didn't mention D and D because at the time we didn't know it was D and D.
Okay.
Right. But he had said the game that comes out in December was not ready and we had to push it. You know, my take was well remaster was obviously Metallica remaster was ready. You should have just released that instead and pushed X-Men back a month, right? So, it had its issues and I feel so sorry for Jack and Won because they were heavily smashed and went into hiding for 6 months. And I'm sure that this was probably the coffin the nail that smashed the coffin for Jack in relation to going I'm not built to work in an office and design games. Um, but like it that game is extremely unique. Like the ball paths in it, it's one of the best stern layouts. I don't give a [ __ ] what anyone says. That's my opinion and I'm going to stick to it. But it is super fun. It is tough. It is very tough, but I enjoy playing that more than King Kong.
Wow, that's a take. Uh,
okay. I think if you look at the danger room itself, it's annoying as [ __ ] But someone will tell you what he's doing is he made you he's giving you a chance really look at look at the danger room as an out lane. He went into the out lane.
Risk reward.
Y
and there's a chance you can get it the hell out of there. So,
once I took that
belief, I went, "All right,
okay." Now, the auto plunger was a pain in the ass in the beginning. Uh, it wasn't working. It You got to hold down the left flipper. So, the auto plunge has got to work. Uh, because hitting the left ramp is so important.
Yeah.
You know, and start your mode right off the bat. And And uh I I here's another issue. We'll get real geeky on that game.
From the left flipper, you can't the left orbit ramp to the left of the sentinel head. You can't backhand that.
That's a mistake.
See, um
that's a mistake because the think of the flow of the game if you could if you could do that.
Y
because that shot's vital. Um, now that's a very repeatable shot from the right flipper.
Very y
uh not you cannot hit it from the left flipper. So what they want you to do is then go to the left to the right ramp or the right orbit ramp. Yeah.
To the right of him. But that that those two shots are very hard. You know, you're talking
you can hit him, huh?
Yeah. I mean, I have to admit the game is very temperamental. Every game I've played is very different. It does. It does have a this thing that it really depends on how it's dialed in and how it's set and how it's pitched. Sure. Which does that make it a good game out of the production? Maybe not. But in relation to the layout and if they had more time to tweak it and didn't have these deadlines,
the code's come the code is coming a long long way. Now, when you complete a mode, like I always like this geninosa and uh
you complete the mode, you go into the future, you collect and you come back and real smart, real smart games made huge progress.
Do we have to Why do we have to wait a year? That's a that's just a whole other discussion.
Uh look, I think again it was just because that it needed to be rushed. It wasn't ready. And then what was what did come out really didn't sit with the people and power of the people they wanted changes and we're getting those changes. I do feel for way because you know I had a really good interview with him. He's very passionate. I think he just didn't have the right direction. Um and you know probably the wrong guy to maybe put on that type of game. I I don't know. But you know for someone who's a huge X-Men like I grew up with the comics, the cartoons. It's a I love the theme. Love the theme.
The theme does literally nothing for me. Right. I just like I just love Jack Danger.
Yeah. And Jack Danger is one of the best looking Stern Elles being the purple. The artwork slaps.
Um like it's a game that I think will come good. I think it will come good. It is sad that each game needs to be told in a bit differently. Um but I like that we got something different. I like that we got the three flippers. It wasn't an Italian bottom. There was a danger room. There was, you know, different stuff, homages to different games from the past, you know, and I think it would come good. I'll tell you what isn't fun. Wick isn't fun. Like I I agree with you. I totally agree with you.
Wick though. It is a brutal shooter. You can only You're only hitting three ramps. Those three ramps are hard to hit, especially the middle one. And it is a game that K D'Python Anghelo can blow up because he's just a sniper, right?
Yeah. Because he's top 15 in the world or 25, wherever he is. Okay. Me, you, and my daughter
can't play it.
I I So, yeah, they busted my butt on the round table like when I come to Arizona in a couple of weeks, they're going to teach me wick.
You're going to teach me to hit a a tiny little ramp in the middle. You're going to teach me to save the ball when it comes through the nightclub in the pop bumpers in the middle. I It's a tough game, man. Uh it it's an interesting thing what they tried to do with the contracts and they I think they really helped the along keeping it kind of alive a little longer.
They're doing a few contracts now again. But it's a shooters pin. It's a tournament pin. Like
it's tournament pin.
It's a tournament pin. Like it was never
agree. I just totally agree with you 100%.
Yeah. But again, you know, it's like one of my favorite movie franchises, right? And you can bring a whole new generation of people into pinball because it's one of the best franchises ever made.
Do you think the gun controversy hurt sales on that game?
No.
See, I do.
No,
I can't because
when when they streamed it, we saw there was heaps of guns in it and shooting and like it was just no guns in the artwork. That can't make or break a game.
I don't know. I don't think it made it like broke it or anything. I just think it's very possible that it could have hurt the
I think it's free that that guy
uh and
I think the premium is better. The premium is definitely better than the pro. The having the suitcase open and these sorts of that [ __ ]
you know, is uh I don't know. Yeah, I'm with you. Wick doesn't talk to me. It doesn't uh scratch my itch.
I mean, this is pisses me off. I I'm struggled with D and D. I'm struggling with Kong. I'm struggling with ex with um John Week. So, it's kind of feels like we're [ __ ] on Stern. But the thing is, right,
the thing is you got to understand like when you're trying to grow pinball, you need to create games that people are going to find easy to play. Not I know you're going to piss off tournament people, right? But tournament people who are over 50, no d no disrespect to you, they're not going to grow pinball.
No,
they're not going to grow pinball.
Yeah. I'm trying with a podcast, but uh uh
that's because you you're you're not you're not you know those I'm talking about those guys that are like head down, you know, they're head down into tournament. That's all they do. They don't they don't help other people. They don't they don't teach other people. They're just selfish. They're about themselves. They just want points, right?
Yeah. They just want
Yeah. Those people are not going to grow pinball. I'm sorry.
So Stern's in a conundrum there because this community is so loud, right? They put out Star Wars. it's easy. Uh, and the games last longer than 30 minutes, then the tournament crowd loses their [ __ ] Uh, if it's too hard like Wick, then we, you know, the average player loses their [ __ ] because it's so hard. And so there is a happy medium. Uh, I don't know which game off the top of my head is a happy medium. I think balance.
Maybe like Jaws.
Yep. one balance because you know to to release game after game that are just like you know D and D too hard Kong too hard week too hard like sure people going to go listen to these guys [ __ ] about it but for the average person listen to you [ __ ] about it
yeah but listen like the thing is right okay and I and I get called a Stern shill I still love what Stern does but my 10-year-old right she loves pinball she she won under 13's uh awesome top last Right. She loves pinball. She has not gone back. She played two games of D and D. She played Kong five times, right? And has not gone back to either of those two games.
She refuses to play Ninja Turtles because it's demoralizing because the score is just like a [ __ ] fart, right?
She she she struggles with um those like game those themes that should be bringing kids in, right? Like
it's obviously John Wick's not a 10-year-old Steam, but it's still she'd still play it because, you know, like it it's her dad's playing it, right? And I can't get her to play a two-player game with me because she [ __ ] hates the game.
Get rid of it.
Doesn't bring you joy. Doesn't bring you joy. Get rid of it.
Get it out of there.
Get it out of there.
No, look, man. I get it. It's a it's a h they they got a they got a tough gig making it is not an easy business making pinball machines.
It is a tough damn gig.
I feel for Stern. I I love what they do. I love what George stands for. I love what George does for the hobby.
Um I love the whole team over there, right? But the fact of the matter is is that at one point before you release a game when you're at Design Whitewood, you should get some [ __ ] kids in, some novice players in and go, "How do you guys find this?" And if they're saying this is not fun, right, then it's not fun.
All right, public service announcement, ladies and gentlemen, from personal take on on those.
His take is let's make games easier. Let's let's wait 45 minutes while Jaws is finishing and
he doesn't need to.
But you can make like with the rule adjustments, right? We can make Jaws harder for tournament bait cryb babies, right?
Yeah.
No, you can. And we did it at the wormhole because we, you know, next stop match play such a great little thing when you do play tournaments that it tells you your average time per machine.
So you could just look at three tournaments worth of data and go, "All right, we got to take the rubbers off of these damn things."
But like honestly, like I know a lot of tournament players, right? And a very small percentage of them complain when games are too easy. Like it's not everybody, right? It's not all tournament players. It's just there's a very small percentage that just a really traditional class loud and they want the points and they want it to be challenging. They don't want to be bored. They don't want to be bored, right? But I'm sorry if we made a hobby based around that small percentile of tournament players, the hobby would have gone bust a long time ago. Did you hear Kale's on electric bat uh episode where he was talking about remote control car being a $2 billion business and the pinball business being a hund00 million
business
and that's the hobby we're in, right? We're in a niche of a niche and
and yeah, so we're you know some people are just louder than others. I being one of them being having a microphone on my face. So Stern's in a tough spot, but the new CMO's job and uh Jack Danger's job truly is to grow pinball.
They got to grow pinball because this white hair is not
getting it done. We need the new So if if that's a way and some of those home editions that that they put out are a lot easier. I mean, they figured out a way to put balls in machines that you don't take the glass off and [ __ ] like that. So, they're doing some stuff.
Got to connect and it's got, you know, that's going to those home machines are a great business move in hookline sinkering people into buying a bigger game eventually.
Yeah, it's a it's a gateway drug.
Gateway drug.
Yeah, it's a it's a good gateway drug. I have no problem and any content creator, so-called content creator that shits on that move just doesn't get it. You know, they just don't get what what's what they're trying to do.
Uh, and yeah, you might have to just cycle your collection and put it, you know, a little theater magic in there. Make it make things a little easier for her. But you know, look, every Alice Cooper, the Alice Cooper for Spooky, brutal game, hard to shoot, not fun for my daughter doesn't play it because like she reckons the music is cool and cheeky and like, you know, a bit catchy, but she she can't hit any of the shots.
Evil Dead's easier, but you know, she'll be sleeping with you for a month.
Yeah. She hasn't even she hasn't even gone anywhere near that room. Um, so but do you know what I mean? Like it's like every company has that game. It's not just it's not just Stern, but no,
it's just that
unfortunately when you are the biggest out of that small niche market, you're the biggest manufacturer that is trying to grow pinball, right? You'd think that the responsibility lies a little bit on them to make it easier for
I think you need to give Kong a little more of a chance. Let's put some more games on it. And uh why don't you watch uh Joel's tutorial? Okay. That guy takes the glass off, teaches you how to play these machines and uh
Oh, no. Like I understand to play like the modes and I get like what you do to blow it up and stuff. I'm just The ball just isn't surviving. It's nothing to do with like I just literally it is constantly draining. Constantly I'm constantly draining my balls, Jamie. Constantly draining my balls.
What did Don tell you to do? What did Don tell you to do?
Yeah. Play better.
I mean,
have a co and shut the [ __ ] up. Have a shut up. There might be some of that. I don't know.
But like it's just, you know, anyway, it's just again from my perspective is I'm I'm the average much like just a person that loves pinball. I'm not there to chase points. I'm not there to chase.
Well, obviously we love pinball. It's 11:30 at night and I'm still talking with you and I love it. Okay, dude. It's yeah, pinball is is it it's so fun and we need to do a better job of the the industry itself needs to do a better job of bringing in the the 20 and 30 somethings. But with these licenses coming out,
they might be doing that right with Halo
and uh with CGC and Halo and Pokemon.
Yeah.
Star Wars.
And I think you hit the nail on the head. Jack's the right person for it. And I think that's a very smart business move from Stern because if they weren't going to do it, they were going to lose him because like I said, I don't think Jack was ever built for an office role. Um, he's too bubbly and he's too
I don't know him well enough to make that assumption, right? But I do know uh that it's probably a grind building a pinball machine. It's probably pretty damn hard. It's probably pretty hard.
It's a tough job. I mean, I've spoken to designers and it takes it consumes your life. Um, and when you went from streaming three times a week or however many times he was doing it, engaging with everyone in the world and laughing and having
so good at it. So good at it.
He's so good at it, you know? And and he can definitely just like one wicked thing that he could do is literally just let's just take a pinball machine to a school, right? And let's get a line of kids to play pinball at lunchtime, right? And Jack could travel America with a pinball on the back of his truck taking it to schools. That could be a whole show.
Yeah, that could be a whole show.
It you know the it is a strong possibility of the things that they can do. The the the sky's is the limit. I'd really like to see them
increase their social media presence. They're doing that. I'd love to see them continually increase their insider connect. Maybe Insider Connect gets you uh I'm not saying pay for Insider Connect yet. That's coming one day,
but not today. I I don't see that for the next 10 years. But if they could really grow it and do Insider Connect only content, do their podcast on Insider Connect like they used to do. Uh good stuff. They're doing good stuff.
Give me a home leaderboard. I'm happy to pay 20 bucks a month.
Ah, it's a no-brainer. That's a no-brainer, right?
Yeah. It's like I understand why they probably did it at first to drive people to the arcades because the leader having a leaderboard and a TV screen in arcade is the secret source to driving revenue because people will walk in and they're like all right what game am I going to play first and they look up and they go
no question
they go Jamie's on
no question that that on Bond and Jaime's number one on Bond and my goal tonight is to smash Jamie off that leaderboard right
it happens every day at Eureka Heights it happens at the bat I walked to the bat and I said, "What's up there?" That's attainable,
right? That's attainable.
100%.
Yeah. It's a They've You know, you know who talked about this? Zack uh and Dennis on the Pinball Show made a quick reference about a fiveminute conversation. You guys should check that out about should Insider Connect, should they license that to the spookies of the world?
It's a neat conversation. We don't have to to delve into it, but
I I I think it's a smart move.
It's a brilliant move, right? Wouldn't that be so smart if they
if they were able to do that and then a spooky machine goes up on a stern leaderboard, that's a no-brainer. That's a no-brainer.
I mean, you think about like the fact that they're allowing Jack Danger to stream other companies games on his own channel, right?
That to me is already like, let's all work together, right? Let's let's make Pinball great again. Let's let's grow it together. Let's you know
pin great again. Yeah.
Yeah.
Um so, you know, let's let's get him in front of us like let's get him to visit Spooky and get him talking because that introduces spooky customers to Stern games and Stern customers to spooky. Like everyone benefits from it. Everyone benefits from it. And if Stern just went, "All right, you know what? We're going to have a spooky section on Insider Connect, which is just spooky games, right? And there spooky tallies and spooky leaderboards and it's going to cost Spooky 50 grand to to do that. Why wouldn't they do it?
Oh, they probably would.
Yeah, it's a no-brainer.
It's a no-brainer.
It's a nobrainer. I mean, Jersey Jack are trying to do it themselves. If if Stern turned around and said, "You don't need to. We'll do it for you. You just got to pay us a licensing fee. We'll give you your own your own leaderboard for Jersey Jack games." You're not going to you're never going to see them like mixed. That's fine. I'm okay with that.
Yeah, I'm okay with that, too. But just have your have your pages, have your Stern games, your spooky games, your um what what are they going to be called now? American Pinball uh Orbit Orbit games are going to be called. Um
have you seen Cuphead pictures?
Um no,
I've actually
I don't want to say too much. I don't I don't want to get anyone in trouble.
You're not going to get in trouble.
You've seen them. You've seen them.
There's like everyone's known for a long time that it was Cuphead. We've known
like for it's a [ __ ] theme. I'm not interested in companies.
Well, forget the theme. Did you see the pictures?
Yeah, but it shot well. It looked interesting.
Yeah, it looked neat.
There's a lot of yellow. Um,
it's very yellow.
It's very yellow, but it doesn't matter. Like, it's still it's something different, right? But that's coming from a guy who really likes Galactic Tank Force. So, what do I know? But, um,
I kind of liked Galactic Tank Force, too. I think Tank Source is a hidden gem and it's it's it's not I think it's just misunderstood. The people saw cheesy, they saw quirky, they saw original IP, they saw ice cream and titties and milk and they were like, "No, not for me."
Really? I I think it was the technical problems. I think the
as well as well. Yeah, there was elements of that.
You couldn't play it. We couldn't play a four-player game on it.
Yeah.
Just couldn't do it. And uh it just could not cycle through the balls up top. I put a lot of time on that machine. A lot of time on that machine. And I can tell you it is it once you figure out that code, it's pretty cool. But there's so many mistakes in the code that you start realizing.
Well, there's been a lot there's been a lot of beta codes. I've got the new beta code that came out recently in that. Um like it's it's it's much better. The four player works now. I haven't mine hasn't missed a beat. I really enjoy it, but mine isn't getting smashed. Mine has not getting smashed like it does at Right.
Right.
So, I get it. But there is it's, you know, for Fix to turn around and tell people that there wasn't an issue with that game was very silly because there was. Um, so yeah, sure there was an element of the code and the the the actual mech. they just as an organization made so many bad business moves that they uh because I actually like Valhalla more
and you know Valhalla is a pretty cool game. Houdini
Houdini is fun but it's tough.
Yeah but it's it it's tough that that orbit's tough. I mean the inner orbit where you're
locking balls but the mech on that game you know American pinball just made mistake. I mean who the hell's gonna buy a barbecue game? It's really stupid. And I had Steve Bowen on and I didn't have it. He his opinion is nobody wants unlicensed games. That's what he told me. And I didn't confront him enough on that. I should have said, "Steve,
barbecue, you know what I mean?
You sick these in barbecue joints. Do you ever go to a barbecue joint? Your hands are all [ __ ] up. You can't have play pinball."
Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, it's fair. It's a fair comment. you know that that's what I
think I think original IPs can work. I mean I don't I don't think that they can't but I think you got to be very selective. That's all.
Yeah. You're not I don't want to shoot meat.
I don't want to shoot meat. I like brisket. It's tasty with Texas brisket
but uh you know and then so that just organization made some dumb moves and
uh it it's just unfortunate. It's too bad. I don't want to see anybody go out of business. That's not I'm not content creator goes, "Yeah, we took down American Pinball."
That's not what I want to do. I want him to make
a game great. And and
I've reached out to him. I've reached out to him to Ron and said, "Look, let's have a chat. Let's talk about what's going on. Let's let's put let's try and turn this around because I think there's a lot of misinformation. There's probably a bit of embarrassment on their end." I mean, you know, the rumor was that they didn't renew their their name and Galactic Tank Force IP and everything because all those bills were going to David Fix's personal email and they were being charged on David Fix's personal credit card, right? And he was being reimbursed by the company. Um, and that's why that those lapsed, right? Um,
so what are you doing?
You like what type of business is run? like you know I don't want to [ __ ] on them but at the same time you got to understand you know as a small business owner you make those errors you're broke within
I'm done I can't make those mistakes but
okay so now with the Galact force so if the rumor is true that they can't they're not going to do anything in production of Cuphead unless they sell these machines and then they came out today what was that today I just got
today they said that Cuphead is done Um because the license the people that own Cupet as a license are really pissed off with them. There was a mech in the game that didn't never got that mech right has a copyright on it and they never got approval to use it and now they're obviously trying to take everyone to the cleaners and and they've had to like they reckon the game will never see the light of day. Now, I think
I think that I don't know if you know the story about Deadpool the movie where they weren't going to make the film and then Ryan Reynolds leaked the test footage and then the community basically demanded for the game the movie to be made. Right.
That's how Deadpool
Okay. I I didn't know that. Okay.
So, they the studio said, "No, no, nobody wants it's too violent, too gory. It's too cheesy. You can't break the fourth wall." And Ryan Reynolds says, "I disagree." He then leaked it. He admitted to leaking it years later because he by then he he was obviously so deep that he couldn't sue himself. Um and for me now I think what Cuphead needs is for it to be leaked. The people need to see it. The people then will demand for it.
Whoever has pictures leak it. Just leak on till put it on till forum.
There's a lot of content creators that have got pictures and they're all doing the right thing. Right. But I think it's one of those things that yeah, it's not a theme and a video game that everyone played. It's a particular look. Um, and the reason, one of the reasons why the game was delayed for so long was because the people that owned the rights to Cuphead wanted the game to come out with Code Complete, right?
Okay. They didn't
That's true. That sounds That sounds great. Yeah, I I agree in a way, but like you know, as we know, you need to get games out there to get feedback so you can fix modes and make changes and you know, blah blah blah. So, I can understand the going out having very bare minimum code, but like at point8 or 0.9 like you could release the game like they wanted this to be complete.
Oh, okay. If that's the rumor, if that's the truth, bad timing.
Bad timing. So, but yeah, uh there's elements of obviously the business wasn't run well. stupid decisions were made. Um, there's obviously money issues over there. Um, and yeah,
it's tough business, man.
It's a tough business.
It's a tough gig. It's a tough gig. You don't Galactic Tank Force more than Kong, though, do you?
I do love my Galactic Tank Force more than Kong at at the moment. I do.
I do.
That hurts feelings.
I do. I'm sorry. I mean, Galactic Tank Force is brutal. It's basically It's a very an addictive game. Um, it's no nowhere anywhere near as flowy as Kong. Don't get me wrong, but I can make the shots on Galactic Tank Force all the time.
Right. Well, we just take the glass off and start learning the shots on Kong.
I am. I'm actually going to like just I'm literally going to give it I'm going to take the glass off. I'm going to practice and practice and practice and hope to God. But I shouldn't have to be doing this.
But Galactic Tanks shouldn't even be in the same room as they don't belong in in the same vicinity. This is so
I I think we need to before I forget, you mentioned barbecue barriers. I think we should rethe that into like a Golden Girls pin.
You could you could rethe into ALF and it would sell more.
Yeah, 100%.
You could ream it into anything. Anything. They could have got a license for, you know, anything. You could have made a dedicated Diet Coke pinball machine and it would have
it sells more
100%.
More Diet Coke pinball machines than
Do you remember that video game that was the Pepsi Man?
Yeah.
Yeah. Make a Diet Coke man. Make a Coke man pinball machine. It sell
Bario's barbecue. And no one knows who the heck Bario is. I know who Bario is because I'm in the hobby, right?
Yeah.
But
it's just mistakes. Poor guys. I just hate that people lost their job, right? I don't want people lose their jobs.
No. And it's it's any negative, you know, is not good for the hobby. So, um,
anyway, do we we So, we spoke on Predator, we spoke on June, we spoke on
Yeah, we're hammering it, boy. We're like an hour and a half. Do you really need
this? Too much Jamie. People don't need this much Jamie.
It's fun, man. It's fun. I could listen. Honestly, Jamie, it's a testament to you cuz I could like I see your name pop up on my notifications for new content and it puts a smile on my face and
Oh my god,
it's, you know, you you have a face for TV and a voice for radio. Most most people only have one or the other. So, you're very lucky. But, um, I I love your content. I love what you do with the boys. Um, and you know, you bring a lot of positive energy. Uh, so keep doing what you're doing. So, just to recap quickly, we're at an hour and a half, so we'll probably stop it there. But I introduced Jamie. If you guys don't know Jamie, JBS show, check him out on YouTube and obviously on Spotify and Instagram and all that. Uh, we discussed how difficult D and D is and possibly not fun for me. How difficult I'm finding King Kong and possibly not fun for me, but how good they are as games in general as a total package. Uh, we touched on Evil Dead, we touched on Predator, we touched on everything that's happening at the moment. Uh it's been a hell of a fun and uh yeah any final words?
No, thanks so much. We're going to record another round table in a few like a week.
Yeah,
which is way earlier than we normally would do. But we have some information that we're going to break that I think is going to be pretty cool.
Yeah, it's cool.
Yeah, you guys get forced to start doing content more often. That's the problem that you're going to have cuz people will be demanding it with steaks and pork.
I have a massive imposttor syndrome like a massive imposttor syndrome. Okay. And it's very fun to talk to Kale because he does not have an imposttor syndrome. He has no lacking of confidence. And I think we have a good thing going with the round table. I'm a recruiter so I see talent with those two when I I see it. and I knew my banter with them would be great. So, having the time of my life.
The round table for those that don't know is Retro Ralph. Check out Retro Ralph. Cal I was going to say Jamie Hernandez. Cal Hernandez from Electric Bat or as Don likes to call it, Electric Cat. Um, and obviously he has his awesome um YouTube with his partner who is essentially the the concrete that puts electric back together. Rachel.
Rachel is is
a gem. H. We need more Rachel's in this world and we need him in pinball because
she's brilliant too by the way and just a brilliant artist and a wonderful person and I'm just as excited to go see Rachel in a couple of weeks when I go up to the bats and then to see Kale and Ralph. So,
and we have a mutual friend that I want to give a shout out to, Erica. Erica's Pinball Journey, right? So,
I just did some stuff with Erica. Erica's great and Erica is gonna want to really she really wants to deep dive into doing this content full-time and I hope to God that she can now try and do it. I won't reveal too much but uh she's just lovely. She is uh she you
one of my favorite people on pinball.
Yeah, she's just such an awesome um person and check her out Erica's um uh YouTube channel. It's Erica's pinball um journey. So, check her out and we'll give her a shout out since she's a mutual buddy. And
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right, Jamie. Thank you very much, man. I know it's late for you and it is uh I should get to work. It's 1 p.m.
All right, brother.
You go get to work. I'm going to go to bed.
And you're not going to bed. You're going to stop and watch soccer.
Uh I do watch a lot of soccer. Uh Rangers play tomorrow, so I'll try to watch their their qualifier. Hopefully they lose. I'm a huge Celtic supporter.
Yeah. Yeah.
Celtic coach at the moment.
Uh Brendon Rogers.
Oh, of course. Brendon Rogers.
Yeah. We brought Brendan Rogers back and uh
he replaced um
A Pacal. You're Australian. A who's fantastic. I love An had a couple of troubles over there at Celtic. So,
don't get me talking Celtic. I'll I started on a Celtic podcast. That's how I started.
Yep. Well, that's one of the mutual things that me and Gonzo have in common. Gonzo does YouTube for West Ham United. He does.
Oh, he does.
Yeah, I I'll flick you his channel just for shits and giggles. Have a look. He
I am not an EPL guy. I I'm oddly enough just an SPL. Makes no sense to people. They're like, "You don't even watch the EPL." I'm like, "Not really.
How do you find the American How do you find the American Football League
or something?"
Uh, it's terrible. It's terrible. But you got you got um messy messy.
Yeah, whatever. But you know, only when uh Miami comes into town does anybody give a [ __ ]
That's true. That's true.
Well, there you go.
All right, brother. Thank you, Enzo, so much. You're really you're an absolute gem in this hobby, dude. And uh we got to get you to expo one year and so that we can absolutely hang out, man. That would be so I might get there this year. We'll see. Really? For those people that don't know, I'm sitting on an ass pillow because I've lost about 50 kilos and I've fractured my coxic bone and I can't sit down for long periods of time. So, until this heals, I can't really do 15 hours on a pin on a on a plane.
Yeah.
So, we'll see.
Well, you look freaking great and uh thank you for having me, man. What a pleasure.
Pleasure. Thank you. Thanks, guys. [Music]