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F*@kit Friday! Jurassic Park Pinball and Practical Effects in Movies!

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Mar 13, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Jurassic Park pinball art critique and debate on location vs. home game design philosophy.

Summary

Poor Man's Pinball hosts Drew and Scott Ian discuss Jurassic Park pinball with guest Pete Quint, criticizing the game's art direction while praising Keith Elwin's mechanical design. The conversation pivots to broader themes about game code design for location vs. home play, the importance of practical effects in movies, and dream pinball themes.

Key Claims

  • Jurassic Park pinball's art package resembles 1980s coloring books and doesn't match the movies

    high confidence · Scott Ian: 'It looks like the coloring books I used to have as a kid when I was in the 80s.'

  • The Premium Edition of Jurassic Park with the Raptor in the kitchen is the only cabinet version that properly captures a moment from the films

    high confidence · Greg Bone reference: 'Out of all the cabinet styles, the Pro Edition, Premium Edition, and James Cameron's Avatar (Limited Edition), they only managed to capture one moment in all the movies on one side. That's the Premium Edition.'

  • Manufacturers should offer simplified code for location play and complex code for home Premium/LE editions via menu settings

    medium confidence · Pete Quint proposes: 'have two different sets of code...on-location code should be stripped down...whereas a home game should have a little bit more of a deeper rule set.'

  • Pirates of the Caribbean is overly complex because it tries to integrate eight movies into one game

    high confidence · Drew: 'the reason why that game is so complex is because they have like eight movies in one game. That part is terrible.'

  • Practical effects in classic films are superior to CGI because CGI breaks suspension of disbelief

    medium confidence · Pete: 'CGI kills me every time because it's a suspension of disbelief...This is some computer animated thing. It doesn't look real.'

  • Jeremy Packer is the artist behind Jurassic Park's artwork, and his real name is Jonathan (something)

    medium confidence · Scott Ian clarifies: 'His real name is Jonathan something, but he goes by Jeremy Packer as his artist name.'

  • Street Fighter 2 arcade was designed to make players lose after the third or fourth match to steal quarters

    high confidence · Drew: 'you put in your quarter, you beat the first two guys relatively easily, and then the difficulty gets ramped up so high that you lose.'

  • Pete Quint would buy a Spooky Pinball Godzilla if made, and would find room in his budget and house for it

Notable Quotes

  • “The Jurassic Park game, the game itself, like everything Keith Elwin has designed, is a beautiful thing. It's a great shooting game...but I hate the direction they took it, number one. It doesn't relate to any Jurassic Park movie I know.”

    Scott Ian @ ~2:00-3:00 — Core thesis of the episode: praising game mechanics but criticizing thematic/artistic direction

  • “You put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig...That's a sexy pig. That's a pig you'd like to take home and buy for $9,000.”

    Drew and others @ ~18:00 — Commentary on Star Wars pinball's art update improving visual appeal despite unchanged gameplay

  • “If you make it cool, people will buy it...Get a good theme and make it cool. People are going to buy your game.”

    Pete Quint @ ~35:00 — Distilled design philosophy for successful pinball machines

  • “I want to see carpets crawling across the floor. I want to see a dog with a sweater on, and you call it a shrew.”

    Pete Quint @ ~42:00 — Passionate advocacy for practical effects and practical creativity in film

  • “An American Werewolf in London...has some of the greatest practical effects of all time. That transformation is probably one of my favorites.”

    Pete Quint @ ~50:00 — Specific example of beloved practical effect work from classic cinema

Entities

Keith ElwinpersonJeremy PackerpersonScott IanpersonPete QuintpersonDrewpersonGreg BonepersonJurassic Parkgame

Signals

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Extended discussion on whether manufacturers should design differently for location vs. home play, with consensus that simplified location code and complex home code (via settings) should coexist

    high · Pete and Drew debate location vs. Premium Edition design; conclude manufacturers could use menu settings to offer both simplified and complex rule sets

  • ?

    product_concern: Jurassic Park pinball's artwork criticized as not matching film aesthetic and resembling 1980s coloring book style; Premium Edition Raptor cabinet noted as only version capturing a film moment accurately

    high · Scott Ian: 'It looks like the coloring books I used to have as a kid when I was in the 80s.' Greg Bone quote re: Premium Edition being the only proper moment capture

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Jurassic Park noted as complex on location with multiple modes and objectives; comparison drawn to Pirates of the Caribbean's complexity resulting from eight-movie integration

    medium · Pete: 'Jurassic Park...there's a lot to do and it is a little complicated.' Drew on Pirates: 'they have like eight movies in one game'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Discussion of location play needing immediate payoff and replayability (single-dollar engagement) vs. home Premium play needing deep rule complexity; consensus on tournament vs. casual difficulty settings

    high · Pete: location player 'want[s] that to be interesting enough to walk up to...put a dollar in.' Premium at home should have 'complicated game where I need to get good at it'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Star Wars pinball sentiment improved by art/comic edition update despite unchanged underlying gameplay, demonstrating visual presentation impact on perceived value

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.145

0:00
Because it's Friday, you ain't got no job, and you ain't got shit to do. You're just in time for the after party that is Fuck It Friday, starring Drew and Ian.
0:18
You know, guys are crying over here. It's 11 o'clock, Drew, and we're doing Fuck It Friday. and Pete's still with us. We're recording live Monday night. Welcome, everybody, to Fuck It Friday. The gloves are off. Oh, I love it. Okay, Fuck It Friday. Welcome, everyone. Here we are. I gotta get a beer. Fuck off. Wait, what? Just go ahead. Yeah. Get a beer. We're fine. Yeah.
0:50
We've done this before, Pete. We are diving right in, if you can't tell, to this week's episode of Fuck It Friday. That was our buddy Pete Quint, who is joining us for a special episode of Fuck It Friday, because fuck it, it's Friday. This one will not be shared with all of the places I'm sharing our previous episodes. Yes, if you listened to our episode on Wednesday, we were talking about his awesome charity, and we kept the cussing to almost zero and a minimum. There might be a lot of editing, but there shouldn't be anything. Orbital Albert would be proud. Good old Orby We love Orby But here we are, Fuck It Friday And Pete had the great idea Of we're going to Just start off about The merits of Jurassic Park The pinball And why Ian likes the game But doesn't like the art again Wait, Ian likes the game But doesn't like the movie Ian's right here, Ian, tell us I don't understand Here's the thing with Jurassic Park. I don't understand either, Pete. Me and you are on the same page here. The Jurassic Park game. This is going to be called Fuck It, Ian. The Jurassic Park game, the game itself, like everything Keith Elwin has designed, is a beautiful thing. It's a great shooting game. That's true. I actually love the T-Rex mech. I love the Raptor Pit. I love everything about that game. I hate the direction they took it, number one. it doesn't relate to any jurassic park movie i know it's like it's their own thing the first i don't like that it does okay i don't think it does though no loosely loosely and i use pinball machine it's already loosely it's a fucking pinball machine we're not sitting there watching a movie it's a pinball machine and it's already going to be even if it did follow the movie it would still be extremely loose so it'd be as loose as never mind i'm not going there my That's what I'm saying. That's what the first movie is. The dinosaurs and Nedry, right? Yeah. So Nedry's in there, and there are moments in the game where it's like, where's Nedry? What did Nedry do? And it's that John Hammond sound-alike. Right. So it's not John Hammond. Because John Hammond isn't alive anymore. Correct. Well, that's not even the thing. They wouldn't have paid for him anyways. No, they wouldn't have. They have Nedry. Because it's Stern. They don't. Correct. They have Nedry's voice, and it is loosely based on the first one. There's a couple of modes in there where you have to turn off the circuit breakers. So, right? Right. Just like they did in the first movie. But hear me out, Ian. No, I'm not doing anything. He's looking at me with that. I'm listening. You look like my wife with more facial hair and less boobs. Before or after? So, both. I don't even know what that means. So, anyways. the look of disappointment yes yes pete pete you we're gonna have to exchange numbers you and i are gonna have to talk more off the air i love you man i i i i am in love with pete now this is awesome you guys so where was i going with this nobody knows nobody knows oh you're just talking about wherever you want to yeah talking about the modes and how it was based off of jericho park so So these two guys, Delt31, everyone knows Delt on Pinside. Yeah. Him and these two other guys, I think, there's three or four of them, they're working on custom call-out packages for the game where they're grabbing actual audio from the first movie. Where are they going to put it? They're inserting it in appropriate parts. What would be an appropriate part? Because like I said, it kind of loosely follows the original movie. So if we get some audio from the actual actors. I don't remember any guided missiles in the original movie. What are you talking about? It's the smartest missile of all time. It's called the smart missile. What do you want? I don't remember Samuel L. Jackson going, we've got to blow up that smart missile. Nobody says that.

high confidence · Pete: 'My dream theme, genuinely, this isn't even fucking, is Spooky Pinball Godzilla...I will buy it. I will find room in my house.'

Pirates of the Caribbean
game
Star Warsgame
Ghostbustersgame
Spooky Pinballcompany
Stern Pinballcompany
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
American Pinballcompany
Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factorygame
Godzillagame
An American Werewolf in Londonproduct
The Thingproduct
Street Fighter 2product

medium · Drew: lipstick on pig metaphor; new art makes same game look 'really good' and like 'a sexy pig you'd like to take home and buy for $9,000'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Implicit criticism of American Pinball's theme selection strategy; suggestion that good themes are foundational to game success

    low · Pete addresses American Pinball directly: 'Get a good theme and make it cool. People are going to buy your game.'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Speculation about Harry Potter pinball from Jersey Jack Pinball and need to learn from Pirates of the Caribbean's complexity; concern about impossibility of satisfying all fans

    medium · Drew: 'I would hate to be the guy that releases Harry Potter and the pinball machine...There's no way they're going to be able to make a game that's going to impress or love.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Pete expresses dream theme for Spooky Pinball Godzilla, claiming wife is on board; prefers classic man-in-suit Godzilla aesthetic over modern iterations

    medium · Pete: 'My dream theme, genuinely...is Spooky Pinball Godzilla...I will buy it. I will find room in my house...My wife is on board.'

  • ?

    personality_signal: Pete Quint characterized as passionate about practical effects, B-movies, and classic film; strong opinions about design authenticity and user experience

    high · Extended passionate discussion of practical effects preference; detailed engagement in design philosophy debate

    • 4:52
    Ian's ruining my hopes and dreams as always. I just don't understand where they would even put it in. I don't know. I haven't heard it yet. I've heard some stuff, and it sounds – Tell me where Dr. Alan Grant says, ball saved or something. Oh, really? He's not going to say that. Really? I'm just saying we're talking call outs. Where are they going to insert things? they're gonna they're gonna use hey you ever see a deep fake video yeah i've seen it okay why can't they do that that's not an audio they can do both they fake the audio it's just quit quit ruining he just shot down my dreams i'm just saying i think you're really really looking forward to something that probably isn't gonna be as good as you think it will be no i i'm not because i like a couple things here and there maybe yeah that's what i'm saying uh i'm good with All right, well, you know what? All right. Another thing I don't like about it is it's the entire art package, the whole direction they went with that. It looks like the coloring books I used to have as a kid when I was in the 80s. Oh, that's harsh. It does. Johnny Crap did a lot better than that. No, no, no, no, no. Why are you crapping on Crap? I'm not saying. Who did the artwork, by the way? Johnny Crap. This is the guy's name. Pete, don't laugh. This is really his name. No, no, no. His name is not Johnny Crap. No, no, Pete. No, that is his artist name. His real name is something else. I'm not kidding. You can look him up. His real name is Jonathan something, but he goes by Johnny Crap. Yes, Johnny Crap is his name. We're not crapping you. I'm just saying the artwork doesn't match anything in the movies or anything. It fails miserably for me. I do agree. The Playfield art is beautiful. Don't get me wrong. It's a good-looking Playfield. I think Greg Bone said this, and I'm going to say it again. Out of all the cabinet styles, the pro, premium, and LE, they only managed to capture one moment in all the movies on one side. That's the premium. And the premium with the Raptor in the kitchen. You know what? Hang on. You're going to hate this. How is that even fucking possible? That's the side against the wall in my house. Yeah. How is that possible? Of course it is. No, you're right. It is the best. You're right. That should have been the backlash. No, I totally agree. So everyone can see that. So they can refer to that. Is somebody listening? Can someone make that into a Translite? Translites are cheap. They can make those. There's just so many misses on that art package. No, I agree. Like I said, the art. Ian and I have talked about this, that the original Data East cabinet, it was just black with the logo. It's very cool, right? It's iconic? It's iconic, yes. It's Jurassic Park.
    7:27
    Okay. No, I love the logo. That was all we were going with, Pete. No, that's it. No, no, that's a full thought, Pete. Pete, you're new here.
    7:40
    On the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, that's a full thought. We go, hey, I got an idea. What? That was awesome. Okay, cool. I'm four years in, so I think I'm in the right mindset here.
    7:56
    How many beers are you in? He's at four. Go ahead, guys. You know what? That was a restart. That's a restart We didn't lose anything We just weren't recording whatever you and Drew were talking about That's so sad Were we supposed to? We're fine I just said hold on pause Alright nevermind Go back to you guys Whatever you guys were talking about I heard zombie yeti You guys talking zombie yeti? Yeah well what games did he do? He did Iron Maiden He did Dreadpool He did Ghostbusters Ghostbusters, that was the other one, yes. Oh, Ghostbusters Ambition. Yes. Oh, man, if that art package could have equaled the way that game played, it would have been the greatest game of all time. It's up there. It's better. It's kind of sketchy. I want a Ghostbusters, though. Do you? Yes, I want a pro.
    8:51
    Huh. Why? Even with that gap. You like that big gap, huh? No, I always like the big gap. Have you been listening? 20 years the end so Drew has an enormous penis that needs a big gap no Drew just likes a big gap you're half there you're half right Pete you're half right with a cell almost there Pete Zach many are you listening a hot dog down a hallway versus you're right right there Drew just needs that I don't know what it is I just like the gap. What can I say?
    9:33
    No, I get the center post mind. So the Ghostbusters, you're into? Yeah. You're also into a Star Wars, right? Well, we were just talking about that, and it's like I've gone back and forth with that one. Yeah. The theme is so great, but the integration is not. Right. It's boring. That game is boring. It's hard. It's tough. Not tough game, hard game. It's not tough. No, I mean it's tough to like, I mean. The problem with Star Wars is I don't know what I'm doing, but I know if I pick Princess Leia, I'm going to have a good score. And that's sad. You know what I'm saying? Whatever it is that Princess Leia gives you in the pinball point world, I like it. But that's it. That's all I know about Star Wars. Although, Pete, did you see the comic edition?
    10:20
    I have not seen the art yet. That looks really good. It fills it out. No. Pete, it's weird. It looks like it's loaded. And you're like, oh my god, they added shit. And you're like, what did they add? Well, they changed the art. And that was it. But it's the same shots. It is. It's the same fucking game, Pete. It's the exact same game. It's the same fucking game. It's the same game. That art makes it look really good. You could put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig. No, that's a sexy pig.
    10:49
    That's a pig you'd like to take home and buy for $9,000. You know what, though? Here's the thing. I mean, you know, we're talking about Taxi, right? Taxis, let's be honest, if you strip away everything on Taxi, it's like one of the – it's a playing game, right? No, it's not. It's got the crossover ramps. It's cool. No, no, no. I dig it. I like Taxi a lot. No, there's more – Are you shitting on my Taxi? No. You're shitting on our Taxi. I'm just kind of comparing it to Star Wars and saying that – There's more on a Taxi than there is Star Wars. No, no, no, no. No, when you see Star Wars, you're expecting something spectacular. You're expecting something magical. That's the point I'm making. With Taxi, it was an old game, and it's amazing because of what it is, because of the cause, because of the cool shit that's going on in there.
    11:40
    With Star Wars, I wanted – You expect more out of Star Wars. I wanted 20th Century Fox. I wanted John Williams. You get John Williams. yes just like Jurassic Park I get John Williams but you get something more like Pirates of the Caribbean where you have 20 people to choose from and you don know what the fuck is going on and I agree with that because that kind of been one of the big knocks And I ask people and they like oh I love the multipliers And I'm like, do you know how they work? And they're like, no. Fuck the multipliers. No one gives a – okay, okay, gang. I got a question. Here's the question. You dig? I dig. Digging. You dig.
    12:22
    Digging. So how should manufacturers be designing their machines? Should they be designing their machines for on-location play or the home buyer? Yes. The answer is yes. And could they make the pro level for location and the premium for home? Is there enough of a code thing going on there? Yes, they could. The short answer is yes, they could. Why the heck aren't you doing it? because Pirates of the Caribbean on location, which is a rarity, and I'm lucky in Columbus I've got at least one in town. The answer is really simple because they're selling a shit ton of all of them. Let them finish. I'd like to hear what Pete has to say. Well, I've already lost my train of thought. Pirates. Pirates of the Caribbean. I think there's a – when you hit the premium level, right, you get the pro level, and I totally get the pro level. That's it. That is a turn and burn. You put that thing out on location and you let people bang on it. But you want something on location to be interesting enough to walk up to and go, I'm going to put a dollar in this damn machine and I'm going to play it for a minute maybe. And if I get enough satisfaction out of that minute, I'm going to put another dollar in that machine. and that's the replayability on location now going to the premium level at home you're darn right as i have it on free play i want that to be a very complicated game where i need to get good at it to enjoy the end game of the machine which location you're not you very rarely will ever get to except the super crazy tournament players who might the bone karens the whatever whatever's the other guys the keith owens that guy too yeah he's pretty good i hear he does he does okay from what i hear he's all right i've heard it's okay I – of enjoyment to an average player, but it's going to be easy to understand.
    15:33
    Here's a premium that's $8,500. That's going to give a lot of enjoyment to a home player because it's got a lot of new rule sets. And then you get the premium that's just lipstick on a pig. you've got the laser edge bullshit and the different art bullshit and the you know the access panel where you take your dick in and just hump the machine well I have that in every one of my machines by the way the access panel come over to your house no you don't want that Pete it smells like jizz and drew i'll say drew but yes wait wait jizz and drew or drew's jizz both yeah yeah those are two separate they're not mutually exclusive one one one is for the home use mark on location uh to your answer and and i think maybe drew might be thinking the same thing i am I don't see why all three levels of the machine can't have both, saying obviously the on-location code should be stripped down a little bit to give you some sort of satisfaction in one play, whereas a home game should have a little bit more of a deeper rule set. I don't see why if they're making that deep game, they can't just add – they can't water it down for on-location and then just have it as a setting. On-location don't care. Well, right, but it should be a setting, right? It should be a setting. You go right into the menu and you go on location setting and make it just like. All right, Pete. So I'll get real with you. Anyone that's ever owned an actual arcade game in your home, you brought an arcade game in. And I'm not talking about Joust or some of the older Williams games. I'm talking about something from like the 90s. anything after like insert quarter to continue you will know that after that first quarter that game will cheat like a motherfucker to make sure you lose after a certain amount of time those games are designed street fighter games yes street fighter black black black tiger is one of my favorite games oh i love black tiger yeah i know yeah oh my god i love that game but like even like the x-men or teenage men and turtles they all get the quarter side yeah they're designed to destroy you. Street Fighter 2 is a great example, though, where you put in your quarter, you beat the first two guys relatively easily, and then the difficulty gets ramped up so high that you lose at the third match, fourth match. You're done. There's no way you're getting through all of it unless you're putting more quarters in. So, you know, that's designed to steal your money. You can do that. Oh, golly, yeah. You can do that in the setting in a pinball machine. you can make it difficult yeah and i think to your point yeah so you're saying have like two sets of code basically i'm saying you're gonna have the one big code you're gonna have the code yeah but then you're gonna have a watered down version for your and maybe a little bit more difficult for your on location play yeah that's something not as complex though yeah well that makes sense maybe maybe something easier on location how's that sounds and something that gets you to a multi-ball quicker yeah that's it that's easy yes and getting more multi-ball no i agree and and and a setting that allows a place to if you're going to have tournaments right and wonka is a good example of that oh you know i hate i hate to say kaneda's right but you know like i yeah i've gotten two golden tickets i'm pretty good i've played that game a lot you know getting golden tickets in that game is tough if you're on location it should be at least a little easier because you know you want to experience yeah yeah is hard as getting reactors in tna uh is you're saying is it harder i'm asking i don't know uh i know reactors are really hard to get they they are i've got i've gotten a reactor three or four on tna but why tna is so difficult is because of the simplicity well no and exactly so good and see yeah that's that's different because the code like the rules are easy you understand it you know what you're doing you know how you get the the point i'm making yeah with with like wonka it's like i love that game it's a great game it's a great home game but playing on location it is a bit frustrating because it's it's complicated yeah jurassic park is actually the same way jurassic park there you know there's a lot to do and it is a little complicated so that that's my my take on it i want to see yeah so to your point pete i want to see a different code for like you said here's the pro here's an operator yeah you push a button this code says hey collect dinosaurs or whatever that's easy you know shoot the shots collect as many dinosaurs as You can get a free game. Gotcha. Right? Yeah. You can totally draw new players in by making them simpler. And when you have a tournament, you just crank that bitch up. Yeah, you can make it as hard as you want. Two, ten notches. And I think we're going to see more of that. I think it's starting to come. I hope so. You know, they have the co-op modes and they have different things for the home. We're going to start seeing more. Who knows these rumors of a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? There's some stuff coming up. I don't know, but you're right. And like Star Wars, yeah, it's complicated. Star Wars should just be, if you're on location, okay, fight your way to Darth Vader, right? Yes, yes, exactly. Go through these scenes. Destroy the Death Star. Yeah, go to Darth Vader and then go to the Death Star. Correct. All you're doing is going to get Darth Vader. And if you're playing Pirates of the Caribbean, you get to choose one character. You're Jack Sparrow. Bingo. And even if you don't have the voice actor. You know, that brings up a good, that's another topic of discussion, Drew. See, look at you, man. It's just this fucking Friday just writes itself because.
    22:10
    Because we're drunk. Yes, because with Pete, don't give away my secrets. But no, seriously, though, with Pirates of the Caribbean, And the reason why that game is so complex is because they have like eight movies in one game. That part is terrible. I like the game, but that part is terrible. You didn't need to integrate all those movies. No, you didn't. You just need to integrate the spirit of the films. And that's my point, Pete, because people want Harry Potter. And I think about it. I'm like, there's no way they're going to be able to make a game that's going to impress or love. You cannot follow the movies on Harry Potter. It's never going to be what everyone wants it to be. No. I would hate to be the guy that releases Harry Potter and the pinball machine. Embrace the spirit of the story versus follow the film. Oh, you mean like Jurassic Park?
    23:13
    I like it. I like Jurassic Park. What story? embrace it a little better yeah what story has smart missiles what are you talking about I know you are you're laughing over there but no like with you know Pirates of the Caribbean and Willy Wonka no Pirates of the Caribbean and Harry Potter those are very similar titles in a way where there's lots of movies there's a big story you got a lot of characters you can fuck it up just as easily so whoever does this Harry Potter has to learn from yeah and you know Jersey Jack's they're trying because the thing about all the characters they want deep rule sets for the people who have it in their home and stuff But to our point here tonight have two different sets Yeah and it real easy It like you have all these people coding anyways It's a few more lines of code. Here's the easy code. Here's the hard code. Go nuts. Have the settings. That's all. If you do Harry Potter, you need to do just Harry Potter on location. your pro version needs to be Harry Potter walking through the castle and completing a mission or what the fuck ever I never watched Harry Potter at home you can expand it to all those sons of bitches that are in that game or in those films the Hermione Grangers the Ron Weasleys the what the fuckle puffle fucks fucko puffs yeah it's been a while since i watched those movies i've never seen them that's that's as close as i can get to the other houses so it would be brilliant as a home owner to know that you can go through all four of the ravenclaw huffle fucks uh but does you saying like you select the house Gryffindor, Slytherin and Liquor Slynd so kind of like Game of Thrones where you select a house that way I think Game of Thrones but does any of this matter I don't know I'm done I'm done, I love it we're almost done too Pete but if the stuff under glass the world under glass isn't great, then it doesn't matter, right? Hey, you know, here's how you do a pinball machine.
    26:00
    If you make it cool, people will buy it. George Gomez, are you listening? Right, right. We got your silver bullet right here. If you make magic under the glass, people are going to buy it. Okay, George Gomez, hang on. And if you get assets, people are going to buy it. Oh, wait, wait, wait. And if you get a good theme, people are going to buy it. American Pinball, are you listening? George Gomez. I just saw it. I got it. Yeah. George Gomez, I got it. You ready? You just ended all the podcasts. I did. You ended them all. We wouldn't have anything to talk about. Get a good theme and make it cool. People are going to buy your game.
    26:42
    Brought to you by Pete Quint. Yes. I want 2% royalties on that, please. You dig? So, Pete, do you have a dream theme by chance? my dream theme genuinely this isn't even fucking is spooky pinball Godzilla seriously so spooky pinball makes Godzilla okay oh that's right you said you're like Ian though you're into those B movies I don't want American pinball Godzilla there's a second Godzilla for you cause Dutch pinball don't do nothing no how nowhere anyway I don't think we're ever We're going to see another Dutch pinball game. Godzilla, and I will buy it. I will find room in my house. I will find room in my budget, and I will buy it. Have you told the wife this?
    27:30
    My wife is on board. I have told her this. Oh, okay. So, Pete, do you like Man in Suit Godzilla, or would you like something more updated? Man in Suit. It's got to be, right? I love Man in Suit. I'm a big Godzilla fan. I think that's the problem with a lot of people because everybody is expecting some new Godzilla iteration in pinball. But the charm is in the man in suit. You got to have man in suit. The new movies don't suck, but the charm, to use your words, is man in suit. Man in suit. You got to have man in suit. Just like if they did a King Kong. I don't want the new King Kong. I want the old King Kong. I want the stock motion. The latest King Kong was pretty bitchin'. That was a good movie.
    28:17
    And I don't think... It's so much cheaper to do CG, which is a shame. But it's so... You can do so much more with CG.
    28:30
    This is another podcast. Hey, welcome to our world. Computer graphics. I am 100% in practical effects. Bring it. I want to see carpets crawling across the floor. I want to see a dog with a sweater on, and you call it a shrew. I want to see a guy who can't see out of the neck of the eye holes running into buildings that he shouldn't be around. Oh, got it. What was with the dog and the sweater? uh there's a movie called uh attack of the killer shrews with uh i don't remember his name but he played roscoe picol train in the duke's hazard okay yeah i can't remember yeah so he was in this movie called the attack of the killer shrews and they had dogs with like carpet sweaters on and they they glued fangs to their lips that's awesome and it was wow what they did these animals yeah i think i think all all of our listeners had stopped listening like 20 minutes ago yeah no no no we're only 29 minutes into this so i would agree with you though pete i'm a big time old school film guy and i uh cgi kills me every time because it's It's a suspension of disbelief. All of a sudden, your brain is like, I'm not fooled. This is some computer animated thing. It doesn't look real. It never looked real. So you'd rather have the... I'd rather have what they did with Star Wars, the original trilogy, versus what they did in the prequel. But would you rather have the fishing line and the... Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yes. I want to say... The AT-ATs look better than anything in the prequel. Yeah, those are pretty good. How did you do this? What's that? That's the question I want to ask when I watch a movie. How do you do that? And something cool happens. I want to – how did you do that? That is true because if you – well, Star Wars. Because of its computer graphics. You're like, oh, it's computer graphics. Whatever. You can do whatever the flying fuck you want to. It's true. So go eat a bag of dicks. I don't care. It's just computer bullshit. Yeah. It's computer dicks. Physically. If you can do it with panel wire and slide a hand or whatever.
    31:03
    I'll take it one step further, Pete. If you can, like say it's a horror movie, if you can genuinely scare me with very little effects, that's even better. Like the original Nosferatu. Oh, my God. Not a ton. We're just talking makeup and some lighting and camera angles, and therefore it's frightening. What is the best practical special effect you've ever seen? Practical special effect? The best one?
    31:33
    Ooh, Pete's getting... He just shit himself. Pete, you're up first, Pete. What's your best practical special effect?
    31:42
    Oh, Lord. Yeah. Ian, grab a good one. It's hard to say. The AT-ATs were pretty good. I'll give you a couple. Like the best man in suit I've ever seen.
    31:57
    Was Drew in a suit? Best man in suit. Like dude in a suit. It's a toss-up between the Predator and Alien. Okay. Yeah, have you ever seen those old school pictures of that skinny black guy? Yeah. He's like 70 tall. Yeah, he's tall and skinny. And just like creeps all get out. Well, come on. Anthony Daniels, the fact that he could even fit in that suit was pretty amazing. Right, right. You can see how skinny he is, but go ahead.
    32:24
    And then you've got things like John Carpenter's The Thing. Yeah, The Thing was something I was going to think. Awesome, practical effects. All that was puppetry and things bubbling and all sorts of gross things happening. Have you seen Mr. Rogers' puppetry?
    32:48
    Puppetry? No. He missed it. Don't worry, Pete. He's trying to talk about Mr. Rogers' puppetry. It's not the same as what you're talking about. Don't fuck with Mr. Rogers. I'm not. I'm not at all. Mr. Rogers is a saint. Yeah, he is. I would, to go back to this, I don't want to go to another Mr. Rogers. Let's not talk about Mr. Rogers' puppetry here on this podcast, please. but yeah i was i was gonna say um i lost my train of thought fuck you true he said the thing no the thing is amazing absolutely oh uh american werewolf in london oh when he transforms into a werewolf i'd say it's probably single-handedly my favorite uh special effect that is uh practical totally practical how they did it he turned into a werewolf do we know how he did it lots of different people lots of different gizmos and and yeah just kind of like stop motion no it was like literally animatronics like taped to a guy with prosthetics and makeup and
    33:57
    ears and yeah things yeah just oozing and pulsating which one is this american werewolf in london in london not in paris that's that's the that's the newer one yeah it's not as good The London one was the The Paris one was from like the 90s or something right Yeah it was This one was late 80s But this was Yeah this was the It has some of the greatest practical effects Of all time I 100% agree Yeah I'd say that transformation is probably one of my favorites But the thing is I think the thing is technically better though I think the thing is just disgusting You know what I'm saying It's grosser Yeah, but I feel like, yeah, you can slap a bunch of shit together, and you're like, yeah, this is disgusting. But, you know, with the werewolf one, though, it was literally somebody having to transform a person into a wolf, which is pretty crazy. So they're both impressive, both impressive. I had cracked and broke into a foot. It was so good. I know. And jaws, human jaws would just pop and fizzle and expand into a wolf schnoz. It was awesome. Oh, my goodness. No, that's probably the best one. But, yeah, there's a lot out there, though. They're just absolutely amazing. A lot of talent. When you watch it, you're like, how the fuck did they do it? Just to your point, how the fuck did they do it, and why can't I do anything that cool? That's my favorite thing. It's like, how did you do that? What did you do? And that's all before Jurassic Park in 1990, what was that? Two. 92. But those are some of the best special effects. 92, they had a good mix, though. They did have some animatronics there. That shit still holds up. That CG still holds up today. And they used animatronics, which was amazing. I'm watching the transformation right now. First of all, he takes off his clothes. He's naked. Yeah. This is getting weird. That's pretty sexy. I'm watching porn as we're doing this. Just your kind of porn. It's all right. It's not porn. You're not screwing.
    36:04
    It's just ding dong. I watched this video. We were talking about Jurassic Park and they showed the difference between Steven Spielberg and then the newer stuff and why the original jurassic park looks so much better from a cinematic standpoint and what did they say well he filmed it in a different ratio which isn't like the current ratio so that was thing one so it's a it doesn't have the black bars it's it's taller yeah so they were able to do more like ground shots up okay so the the people were on below the lower third line if you will so it looked more dynamic more large like when they did the brachiosaurus yeah first saw it and then they showed like one of the newer jurassic parks where it was squattier so the people were further you know forward in the scene and they were like taller basically okay so it didn't look as i still say the dinosaurs themselves don't look as good. Well, whatever the case, but I'm just saying if you just looked at the way they filmed it and stuff, that was pretty interesting.
    37:14
    I'm watching this transformation. It's pretty wild. It's amazing. And that Brachiosaurus scene in Jurassic Park still brings tears to my eyes. It's so good.
    37:29
    No, it is. No, Jurassic Park is an iconic movie and it looks great and you look at some other movies in that era that try to attempt cgi it's not even close i've tried to watch just for shits and giggles because my wife my wife my daughter and i love watching toy story 4 together and i thought i'd throw toy story 1 in there just to see it's it's it's laughable no isn't it funny i did that too because toy Story 1 was made like almost 30 years ago. Woody looks fine, though. Funny enough, Woody's the only character that looks okay in that whole thing. Everyone else is like, we got $100,000 to make Woody, and everybody else is just do what you can in five minutes. Go. No, it's true. But CGI is a crutch, I think, for a lot of movies, and that's the problem. Absolutely. what happens is what happens is you know you have a budget and you want to tell these big stories and depending on your budget we'll see we'll see how good that actually looks like if you ever seen anything like uh you know what i'm thinking like low budget but still needs cgi i'm thinking like starship troopers 2 where they i don't know if you guys have seen it but it's like it's kind of release target troopers too well you know what you go from like a huge budget movie with a lot of cgi that still i think relatively holds up pretty well still but then you watch the sequel it's like a bunch of guys in a bunker and they can't leave the bunker because there's a sandstorm and there's bugs out there but the reason why they did that is they couldn't afford to to make a lot of good looking bugs so it was basically them in a bunker and every time they went into the sandstorm they would die because quote unquote the bugs would kill them but when they did show bugs they looked terrible you know what i'm saying versus starship troopers one when they had a budget that's my point it's it's all about the budget and then they had to use cgi as a crutch they could they could have came up with a better plot that maybe didn't have to involve them as much well it It sort of reminds me of that Simpsons episode when they're talking to George Lucas after Star Wars. And he goes, but we've perfected digital eyelash rendering.
    39:57
    No, because they were talking to him because Lisa was like, because they watched that movie. And there was the AT-AT that was in Congress. And this AT-AT walker was sitting down in Congress, put on glasses, and was reading something. And then that was the whole movie. Yeah, that's it. and then you know she they go to george lucas and they complain and he goes well yeah but we've we've done so good with eyelash rendering and he was serious and and you know it's it's funny but it's kind of like that's what's happened like you said kind of your point about toy story the toy the original toy story movie was so good the story was good right and then it's like now yeah they perfected a lot of these techniques and they look great now but are the stories as good just like Star Wars out of the stories. I think the stories are that good. Toy Story is a bad example because those stories are all great.
    40:51
    That's going to be around for a long time. No, and it's done well. That last one was really good. Did you see Forky? Yeah.
    41:02
    Forky's great. It's great. My point is that storytelling is what it is. Right. If you go all the way back to it. If you have a good story, that's number one but if you're going to tell a story that's a big story and you don't have a very big budget you have to be very creative and back in the day they had to rely on teams of guys to make that story how do we do this on a budget they're going to figure it out how do we take a garbage can and that's where ingenuity comes in that's where the charm of the movies come in that's where you get guy in a Godzilla suit smashing a bunch of cardboard buildings. You know what I'm saying? That's where you get the garbage can droid in Star Wars A New Hope. That's where you get a lot of these leftover costumes in the cantina scene that were actually used for other... They were used for other movies. There was this guy who did those molds and stuff. Those masks. Those were stuff he had hanging in his bedroom when he was a kid. He brought them to the set. He's like, this is all I got. Use them as aliens. That's why one looked like the devil. One looked like a werewolf.
    42:21
    That's all it is. It's using those kind of things and that engineering. But now, my point is, nowadays, it's like you can tell a story, but they don't have to do any of that. They can just be lazy and do poor CGI. Yeah, because nowadays, they have the budget. in China to do a bunch of bullshit shit that is going to look like crap in five years. It doesn't matter if the story is good.
    42:50
    There's plenty of shit movies out there. Have you seen Omega Man with Charleston Heston? Sure. You know where I'm going with this? Versus Will Smith's I Am Legend?
    43:03
    It's the same movie. It's based on the same source. Oh yeah and Last Man on Earth With Vincent Price is also the same movie Yeah yeah yeah So you got all three movies But all three I think are radically different They are You didn't like I Am Legend?
    43:23
    I Am Legend With Will Smith With like apocalyptic vampires Or something Yeah and his dog got affected And Vincent Price's Last Man on Earth Was zombies And I'm Charlton Heston I haven't seen Omega Man Charlton Heston's Omega Man is the one where they were like Cult people They were like people of the night And they wore hoods and they were against all technology Right So what he had to do was Charlton Heston had to like He had his like He had that sweet ass car or whatever But he would like I remember him Like booby trapping his house to like have those bright lights Boobies? What? booby trap booby trap booby yeah focus beat but no you would put those bright lights sorry bright lights on because they were like vampire ish you know they hated the light they also hated technology so they're like fucking trying to destroy uh his house with like catapults and stuff which is i don't know why but to be far more scarier than like some cgi creatures that live in like a tunnel underground i don't know i i'm not i don't have a lot of cg scares i don't get scared a lot of cg movies i don't either because because i'm like it's a ghost whatever doesn't look like creepy and fun but i'm not scared so i think uh the last one that scared me was wreck if you've seen wreck it was a spanish film um it made a oh rec uh yeah i've i've seen it i've seen that yeah that was that was good yeah it was it was that one that one actually that was like a that was like a handy cam right where they were like didn't it look like it was like someone was recording it had it had that shaky cam thing First person, documentary sort of thing to it, Blair Witchy sort of thing. Yeah, that was popular. I thought it was well done. That was the last one that really, like, frightened me.
    45:40
    But outside of a number of Japanese and especially Korean horror movies, yeah, I don't know. I don't like... I'm the old guy here. Hey. Hey, guys. I don't like anything new and fleshy. So, screw all this CG shit. You know, some of them weren't... I'm trying to think of... There's that director that does pretty decent stuff. I mean, a lot of it's jump scares, but he did... I want to say it was demonic. And then he did... oh he did the nun he did all those like you know what i'm saying those that that series of movies with um oh shit i should probably fucking imbd this one but i'm pretty sure there is there he does he does cgi all right i mean it's a lot of jumps it's it's a lot of um
    46:42
    kind of bullshit scares to be honest but it scared the shit out of me i'll be i was the first one to be like dude this is crazy see demonic oh i don't think it's this one fuck me i don't know anyway there's a few movies out there that were newer i don't edit this there's a few movies out there there's a few movies out there that were yeah definitely uh let's call it let's wrap this up before we get too far down the rabbit hole i can't remember that when i tell you guys that I'm going to not remember.
    47:15
    What's that? That's what I'm saying. He doesn't remember. We're calling it. Well, Pete, thank you. Please call it. Mercy! Yes. It's done. We're done. Usually Ian's calling it on me because I'm off drifting about something. It's the first time I get to be like, no, we got to call this. You guys are way off. None of this is making any sense anymore. Let's all go on Wikipedia and look up 10 things we've never looked up before. Ready, go. I've watched all these fucking movies.
    47:44
    God, I can picture that guy's fucking face. Oh, whatever. While you guys are doing that, I watched the trailer for Omega Man. I want to see that. It looks pretty cool.
    47:55
    Charlton Heston? Dude, it's really cool. You watched the whole trailer? Well, no, no. I just kind of flipped through it. Dude, Omega Man's pretty fucking sweet. I've got to buy you a bunch of movies. Yeah, you keep saying that. I know. I have to do it. I'll watch some. All right. We've got to go. All right. Love you guys. Pete, thanks again. for being a great guest today. Let's do this again. Let's shut that down. Thank you very much, everybody. Enjoy. Peace out.