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Pinball Innovators & Makers Podcast Ep 5: A Family Affair

The Pinball Network·video·39m 20s·analyzed·Apr 23, 2023
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TL;DR

Family builds Overwatch homebrew pinball leveraging community resources, hand design, and professional artist collaboration.

Summary

Dan Rosenstein hosts the Pinball Innovators & Makers Podcast episode 5, featuring an interview with Mike Mandola and his sons Lucas and Cameron about their family homebrew Overwatch-themed pinball machine project. The family discusses their design process using notebooks and hand-drawn sketches, their use of community resources like Trident Pinball's starter kits and Fast Pinball controllers, and how they balance the build with busy schedules. They've enlisted professional artist Brian Allen for playfield and cabinet art, sourced ramps from Ramp-O-Matic, and are building custom wireforms with help from the pinball community.

Key Claims

  • The Mandola family has owned approximately 30 pinball machines over time

    high confidence · Mike states: 'We've now probably had, I think, a total of 30 machines in and out of the house'

  • Trident Pinball's starter kit saved the family approximately 100 hours of work

    high confidence · Mike: 'he probably saved me like 100 hours. And I hadn't had that kit. We probably never would have started the whole thing'

  • The family uses hand-drawn designs with rulers and paper instead of CAD software like Visual Pinball

    high confidence · Mike: 'We haven't done anything. I know a lot of people use visual pinball. We haven't done that. We've just done it all like by hand using a ruler and colored pencils'

  • Brian Allen, a professional pinball artist, is collaborating on playfield and cabinet art for the Overwatch machine

    high confidence · Mike: 'I follow Brian Allen on Instagram... we had a little negotiation. And and so Brian Allen is going to do the playfield cabinet translate art for us'

  • The family dedicates a couple hours per week to the homebrew project despite busy schedules

    high confidence · Mike: 'as we did a little research, we realized, OK, there's a lot of resources out there. And if we dedicated a little bit of time each week, we probably could pull it off'

Notable Quotes

  • “Started out playing pinball when I was probably 10, 12 years old. I remember playing a lot of Terminator 2. Had about a 30-year hiatus when I didn't even know pinball existed anymore until we rediscovered it at the Pinball Gallery in Pennsylvania a few years ago.”

    Mike Mandola @ ~2:00 — Establishes Mike's journey from childhood player to adult collector and homebrew builder, showing how the family reconnected with pinball and became passionate enough to build their own machine.

  • “he probably saved me like 100 hours. And I hadn't had that kit. We probably never would have started the whole thing, to be honest.”

    Mike Mandola @ ~32:00 — Highlights the critical role of Ernie Silverberg's Trident Pinball starter kits in lowering the barrier to entry for homebrew projects, directly enabling this family's project.

  • “I don't know. He's like, I got to download Overwatch, play some Overwatch. So he's going to start doing that, familiarize himself with the characters.”

    Mike Mandola @ ~48:00 — Shows professional artist Brian Allen's commitment to understanding the theme deeply before creating art, demonstrating the quality and authenticity of collaboration on the project.

  • “We started with a notebook that Cameron had. Yeah. So actually, Cameron pushed this whole thing. Like, we all love pinball. He kept talking about homebrew and I kept saying, no way, that's way too much time.”

    Mike Mandola @ ~26:00 — Demonstrates how Cameron's persistence and interest in homebrew construction inspired the entire family project, overcoming Mike's initial skepticism about feasibility.

  • “if you're going to go to all this trouble, it's got to look good.”

    Mike Mandola @ ~43:00 — Reflects the family's commitment to producing high-quality work despite being first-time homebrew builders, justifying their investment in professional artist collaboration.

Entities

Mike MandolapersonLucas MandolapersonCameron MandolapersonJen MandolapersonDan RosensteinpersonErnie SilverbergpersonAaron DavispersonBrian Allen

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Strong community-first approach from Trident Pinball and Fast Pinball; both companies prioritize helping builders regardless of purchase status; enablement of homebrew through affordable kits and pre-configured systems

    high · Mike: 'the great thing about both of those guys is that they're like the friendliest people on earth. So you ask them for help and they give you whatever help, like regardless of whether you bought something from them or not'

  • ?

    community_signal: Extensive community network supporting homebrew builders; multiple specialized vendors (Ramp-O-Matic, Matt Gaulden, Brian Allen) available and willing to collaborate with first-time builders

    high · Family sourced parts from Ramp-O-Matic, wireforms from Matt Gaulden, art from Brian Allen; all collaborations facilitated through pinball community connections

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Homebrew machines positioned as personal passion projects with LE-quality production values; family competition (death-saving on machines, score chasing) as social bonding mechanism

    medium · Mike mentions loose tilt bobs and death-saving mechanics; family plays competitively; Cameron's 'King of the Monsters' achievement on Godzilla celebrated as family milestone

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Shot design by combination of existing game mechanics (Deadpool drops, Age of Ultron scoop, Stranger Things orbit) blended into cohesive layout; low-expectation approach that exceeded results

    high · Lucas: 'we weren't really we didn't really know if they would work... we had very like low expectations coming in because we just kind of threw it all together from all these different games and it really just ended up working out pretty well'

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.118

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching Pinball Innovators and Makers Podcast. Hi, and welcome to the Pinball Podcast focused on the innovators and makers who are crafting homebrew, custom, and rethemed pinball machines, the technology that makes these personal projects possible, and the companies helping with these journeys. Custom pinballs are a deeply personal and technically challenging undertaking, requiring time, money, knowledge, and most importantly, the desire to make it happen. I'm Dan Rosenstein, your host. Join me, and let's go under the playfield and see what's needed to make a custom pinball possible. Welcome, pinball innovators and makers. We've made it to episode 5, and I'm humbled and honored for all the positive feedback and encouragement that you've given me. Please continue to reach out at northwestpinballdan at gmail.com and let me know what you think. My goal is to publish one episode about every four weeks and keep them under an hour. Due to spring breaks and other scheduling reasons, we've got a special bonus episode five right now. Let's go under the playfield with a family affair. All right. So today on the podcast, I've got Mike and his sons, Cameron and Lucas. Why don't you guys introduce yourselves? Tell us a little bit about yourself and we'll get into the podcast and the interview. All right, I guess I'll start. I'm Mike Mandola. I'm the dad here, I guess. Started out playing pinball when I was probably, I don't know, 10, 12 years old. I remember playing a lot of Terminator 2. Had about a 30-year hiatus when I didn't even know pinball existed anymore until we rediscovered it at the Pinball Gallery in Pennsylvania a few years ago. And since then, got really involved, bought our first couple machines.
1:53
We've now probably had, I think, a total of 30 machines in and out of the house, and it's driving everybody a little nuts, but it's a hobby that we really fell in love with. I'm actually a molecular biologist by training and I do drug development and this is just like our fun side hobby. So why don't we go in age order? I'm Lucas, I'm his oldest son. And yeah, I've been really enjoying pinball ever since he took us to Pinball Arcade. And I was like, what is this? This is not video games. And I've just enjoyed it ever since racking up the GCs.
person
Matt Gauldenperson
Mud Flapsperson
Pinball Innovators & Makers Podcastevent
Trident Pinballcompany
Fast Pinballcompany
Ramp-O-Maticcompany
Overwatch (homebrew machine)game
Mission Pinball Frameworkproduct
Pinball Galleryevent
$

market_signal: Homebrew pinball as family bonding and STEM education opportunity; multi-generational involvement (father, two sons) in design, engineering, and artistic aspects of machine building

high · Entire podcast episode frames project as 'family affair'; each family member contributing different skills (soldering, graphic design, conceptual design); Lucas and Cameron engaged in high school clubs and sports while building

  • $

    market_signal: Growing accessibility of homebrew pinball is enabling non-engineer families to participate; traditional barriers (CAD skills, heavy equipment, coding knowledge) being systematically removed by community vendors

    high · Mike: 'I don't have that kind of skill either... I don't have heavy equipment. I don't know how to do coding... but I did a little research... and there's this guy Mud Flaps making this Friday the 13th kit... he gave me the confidence'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Custom artist collaboration (Brian Allen) elevating homebrew aesthetic quality to near-professional standards; professional-grade wireform fabrication; full LE-level build commitment

    high · Mike: 'if you're going to build one you got to build an LE like it's going to take place of one of your prized possession machines'; Brian Allen doing playfield and cabinet art; Matt Gaulden custom fabricating wireforms

  • ?

    technology_signal: Growing accessibility of homebrew pinball through pre-made kits, open-source frameworks, and modular hardware components; hand-design methodology remains viable alternative to CAD

    high · Family used hand-drawn designs instead of Visual Pinball; Trident provides pre-cut whitewoods; Fast provides pre-configured controllers with Mission Pinball Framework already installed

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Overwatch selected as homebrew theme due to family passion and multi-platform playability (Switch, Xbox); alternative themes debated (Lego Movie, Iron Maiden, Die Hard, Beastie Boys) but not pursued

    high · Cameron: 'it was just a game that all three of us already loved... we can play together'; Mike considered 'Die Hard and the Beastie Boys' for future homebrews

    • 2:26
    we're a little competitive here a little i'm cameron i'm the youngest son um i got into pinball yeah when we went to that arcade he brought us to the pinball arcade and then our first two games were guardians and deadpool and i loved guardians and it's just one of my favorite games and then iron maiden got me into the band and it's just an amazing game so those i've been playing those a lot that that's actually pretty funny um a couple things on that like i didn't like acdc much at all once I started playing the ACDC table. And now like my daughter walks around singing ACDC and she's 11. So I'm like, I can relate to that story. I'm super glad that you said that. So quick question on this, like, you know, the standard views, like, you know, kids don't like pinball, they like video games. Like what is it about pinball that draws you to it? Lucas, Cameron, you can choose who answers that.
    3:17
    Well, I kind of think the difficulty of it is what draws it to me. Just the fact that you can, you know, especially some of these harder games like we recently had Simpsons like you don't ever think you'll be able to beat it and then if someone does it's like this huge accomplishment I remember we had one of our friends over and he got to run to the hills and I made it and it was this huge thing that was Brian's shout out to Brian that run to the hills day that was an epic day and was that the last time he was invited to your house how about you cam uh well yeah i kind of feel like what he said like just the more you play it you just start to play more and then you find a game that you really like and you just play it non-stop and some of some of the wizard modes it's just so satisfying to get king of the monsters on godzilla it's amazing he made it he made it we play with loose tilt bobs and um they're both death saving model so i make sure that we have your your machines behind you're a little bit close to be death saving on so that's very true no you you you death save on other people's machines is what i'm hearing um so so you clearly you got a good good little competitive family going on here it's a good good that it's a family affair um is there is there anybody else in the household that plays as well or is it's it's the three of you um mainly the three of us but mom comes down and plays wonka stranger things those are those are the things that keep us in business she's like as long as they don't leave the house you can keep doing what you're doing but if you ever try to trade or sell one of those then pinball's over for you and then we have we have cousins and uh aunts and uncles that live nearby they love to play and um i've got some really really good local friends brian dan jay adam mark and joe those are like my boys we're texting all the time we're keeping each other updated on the news and kind of speeding each other up on trades and sales and that kind of thing. That's awesome and they have pinball machines as well then? They do, they do yeah. We sometimes trade with each other, we'll do temporary trades, all kinds of fun stuff. That's awesome. It's great to hear that like the kids are getting into the family is all into it like you guys have some clearly fun healthy competition and then you've got you know friends and extended friends all part like the fact that you're building a community is absolutely awesome. One more general question about the pinball. Do you guys play on location in tournaments, or is it really like it's between the number of machines that you guys have and that your friends have, that's enough for everybody, and then the occasional arcade? Well, we haven't played in any tournaments yet. I really want to, but I think we just haven't gotten around to it. And I think our collection is more than fine at the moment, just to play all day.
    5:58
    Look, the fact that you always have at least two other people to compete with is pretty awesome. I would definitely encourage you to go play some tournaments. I was collecting for 12, 13 years before I played my first tournament just a couple months back, and I had a great time. So I came in dead last, but that doesn't matter. All right. So we're here to talk about pinball and more specifically to get under the play field and talk about the custom homebrew that you three are building. It's a pretty awesome story that it's not just the dad, but it's the dad and the sons that are building it together. And I'm super excited about that. Like I've been a huge proponent of STEM education, science, technology, engineering and math. I, you know, I coach robotics here here in Washington. I've been on the board for for robotics as well out here. And so the stuff runs for high school robotics. They're all grades. Do you how did you guys get involved in soldering and 3D printing and and pinball design? Like where did where did it come from from playing to getting onto the play field? Like that's that that's the core of where I want to start. Lucas, why don't we start with you? Well, I kind of think it all just happened. Like we weren't anticipating any of it really, especially like with 3D printing. I almost got it just my own personal use and then was like, wow, you can actually make so many mods like endless possibilities. As far as soldering goes, that was mainly just like with our first couple of machines, the first things break and you're like, oh, crap, what do I do now? And that was like, oh, I got to get a soldering iron now. So you got to watch some YouTube videos. Yeah, really sweaty. Okay, Cameron, how about you? What would you add to that?
    7:33
    Well, yeah, I feel like it was mostly just the games, having other games, and the 3D printer we just got for fun on Christmas. It was just fun to have, just build stuff, and now it's turned into homebrew stuff. So I dogged my dad for a few years before I finally got my first pinball machine. I got an F-14 Tomcat, and my cousin got a Space Station. We got them the same day. Both of those are in my collection now. I've said that on the podcast previously. The reason I'm telling you this is my dad told me, I'm buying you the machine, but if it ever breaks down, then you're paying to have it fixed. And my dad's an engineer. And I was really like looking back on it, it was kind of a weird thing for him to say. Like, I would have thought he would have said, you're grabbing the soldering iron and fixing it. So Mike, I got to applaud you. The fact that like when your machine started to break down, you were like, you two got to fix this. Like we're not paying the tech to come out here is pretty awesome. And so that was the spark right there. You have to fix the machine, you have to keep it going. And you had two people, you had a whole labor force to go do the work. So Cameron, why don't you tell me where the design started to come from? Where did the idea for the... Oh, first of all, what's the theme? Why don't you three say it at the same time? One, two, three. Overwatch. Overwatch, exactly, which goes back to the video game. So we were talking about earlier. And so so back back to the question I was saying so with with Overwatch, where did where did the theme come from? Was it from you? Was it from your brother? Was it from your dad? All three of you? Well, it's like it was just a game that all three of us already loved. And it was just really fun. Because I play on Switch, and they play on Xbox, so we can play together. So we just love to play. We've been playing it for what, like, three or four years now? More than that. Yeah, we've been playing it for so long. We just loved it. It's like one of our favorite video games. So that's awesome. Do either of you have anything to add or that's that's pretty much it? Yeah, well, I remember specifically it was the first game that I got on my Xbox. I remember telling my dad about it. I was like, wow, this is actually pretty funny. He was like, maybe I'll get it to play with you And we just been playing nonstop ever since countless days So there There clearly a family love for Overwatch okay Can each of you go take whatever order you want and just say like what is the if there one thing you have to put your finger on that you love about Overwatch what is it
    9:59
    Um, I think it's the variety of characters, there's different characters for each scenario they all have their own abilities, and just mastering one character takes so long, but it's really rewarding and fun when you get good at the game I think. yeah and i think the depth of each character and their storylines is really cool and and that's also why we thought it would lend itself really well to a pinball machine you know each shot can have a character associated with it something like that you can have perks and all that kind of thing and um and we did debate theme a little bit we had a couple of other ideas like lego movie or like wait i i think i think we have a visitor in the back i think we have a guest appearance right behind you. Oh, there's mom. Is that mom? Does she only go by mom or does she go by? That's Jen. Jen, it's a pleasure to meet you. I'm Dan. Hi. Hey, so now we truly have the whole family affair. So Jen, you're more than welcome to be on this. I want you to hold the three of them honest about what they say. I don't want any incorrect answers. We're talking about where the theme came from um so so so so cameron you you hadn't gone yet um you you were you were talking there were some other themes as well oh well yeah it was like because i love legos too and lego movies like a cool theme but i feel like overwatch really worked just like all the modes you could put in and just how it'd work with a pinball machine so so what were some of the the other themes that you that that you know the family got together had a had a round table and decided these are not the theme but this you know we're going to go with overwatch what was on the cutting room floor uh well there was like a lego or like the lego movie theme just like one of the two and then also i'm obsessed with iron maiden and we had the pinball machine so we were debating if we wanted to do another one but we decided overwatch would work better totally all right yeah i think that was about it in my head i was also had i had like die hard and the beastie boys in my head but i don't think that'll be like when they go to college maybe i'll do that i i I now now I'm going to go, you know, you you've opened the door, so I'm going to walk right through it. Is it all Beastie Boys or you're just going to do Paul or were you just going to do License to Ill? Like were you like how are you going to do it? Probably just License to Ill. I was betting that was going to be the answer. Absolutely the correct answer. As as as inappropriate as it might be, I would love to see girls multivalve. That would be the place to go. All right. So moving along. And so talk to me about the design process that you've chosen. Like, you know, everybody does this different. Some, you know, some start all the way in CAD as Kyle, my first interviewer did. Others go, you know, absolutely head first as others have, as Ernie has. And so tell me, you know, where you guys went and how you started. How did you start the process? Well, we started with a notebook that Cameron had. Yeah. So actually, Cameron pushed this whole thing. Like, we all love pinball. He kept talking about homebrew and I kept saying, no way, that's way too much time. I got a full time job. You guys go to school, you know. But but as we did a little research, we realized, OK, there's a lot of resources out there. And if we dedicated a little bit of time each week, we probably could pull it off. So I said, all right, if you're serious about it, get a notebook and do some sketches. So he started it. And I think it was pretty cool. right you took a few shots well we all collaborated on taking different shots from games that we love and kind of blending them together so i don't know you want to tell them a little bit about some of the shots like starting from the left maybe uh well we needed drops because i love what it's like side drops like on deadpool it has like four drops on each side so we just decided to do three drops like on each side right above the slings so that i felt like we needed and then we have the one of the virtual pinball games on the xbox and there's this age of ultron game and it has the scoop in the middle that's like a curve so i just wanted that i thought it was cool and then yeah the left orbit is what is it from stranger things yeah it goes all the way around to the right ramp we love that shot it's so like buttery smooth it's a great shot yeah and yeah the layout the ramps also kind of are a little bit like stranger things more like attack from Mars kind of, yeah. So you got the Iron Maiden in there, some Jurassic Park, a couple little bits of everything. Sorry, go ahead. No, no, that's awesome. And it's actually really cool that you, you know, you spent the time playing multiple different machines, you know, as part of the process of rotating them in and out, like getting experience and like really sitting down and sketching out. And I've seen pictures of the notebook. It's pretty awesome. And I mean, no offense in how I say this, but it looks like a student or a kid worked through it. And it's awesome how great it looks. It's not some senior thesis in college that was presented. It was like this came straight from somebody's mind and wrote down on paper and then scratched out and another version was made. It really is awesome. And so then you had all these different ideas for, you know, from all these different games. Now, it's not like a Lego set where you just take the pieces and put it together. So how did you work through the designs and the shot, the design of the shots, so all of those different elements could work together? well i think the shots themselves well we weren't really we didn't really know if they would work um and then really just getting it on the whitewood and testing them out and we were like wow these actually work really well we had very like low expectations coming in because we just kind of threw it all together from all these different games and it really just ended up working out pretty well yeah i think one of the big things was we took the notebook and then we went to Staples and we got some of the big white paper. So, and then we cut out a piece that was exactly to scale. We measured using some of our machines, the lower third. So got that out of the way. And then we just started taking measurements from different machines we had. We went online, did some measurements and we just used a ruler and paper, colored pencils. Like we haven't done anything. I know a lot of people use visual pinball. We haven't done that. We've just done it all like by hand using a ruler and, you know, in the old school, I think. And then once we got to the white wood, we started having to tweak and move things a little bit.
    16:25
    Yeah, the one thing we wanted, we wanted like a second orbit into the pops, but there wasn't room. So then we just added like a hole that'll fall into the pops. That's pretty cool. So it goes, it goes up and then down that, that, that's sweet. So you mentioned a ruler. Was a protractor ever pulled out or we didn't go that far. Like we left it. We have a protractor. It's just collecting dust there. So, you know, one of the interesting parts about your journey, in addition to the three of you working together, you know, being a family affair, is that you also have leveraged the work that others have done to help you get bootstrapped. And with that, you've also been progressing very, very quickly. You mentioned a couple hours a week. I want to come back to the time commitment. But talk to me about like where where you got parts, where you got equipment, where, you know, talk to me about that portion of it. Yeah, sure. So, I mean, that was actually one of the reasons why we even started, because initially I kept saying there's no way we don't have time. I don't I don't have that kind of skill either, even though I know how to solder. You know, I don't have heavy equipment. I don't know how to do coding and technology. That sort of stuff is a little bit over my head, but I did a little research and I and I came across Ernie Silverberg and Trident Pinball and his League of Legends homebrew and read up a bit, was in contact with him. And and then I noticed he started making these kind of like homebrew starter kits. And there was a couple of guys that I already knew on Pinside that actually started doing their own homebrews with the kit. So I kind of knew it was legit. And there's this guy Mud Flaps making this Friday the 13th kit, which is awesome. So he and I talk a lot. So he gave me the confidence. I went ahead, pulled the pull, the, you know, made the decision and and bought a starter kit from Ernie. And it's been awesome because he sent us the whitewood, a lot of the starting materials we need, including the fast pinball controller helps already can pre-configured the PC, the mission pinball framework. Like so he probably saved me like 100 hours. And I hadn't had that kit. We probably never would have started the whole thing, to be honest. And the cool thing is like Aaron Davis also with Fast, like who, you know, the fact that that Fast, the Fast controllers are there, the fact that Ernie gets you started. But the great thing about both of those guys is that they're like the friendliest people on earth. So you ask them for help and they give you whatever help, like regardless of whether you bought something from them or not. Obviously, if you buy something, you know, they enjoy that. But like they're they're in this for the community and the fact that, you know, you're you're living and breathing like you were able to leverage those hundred hours of investment that you would have had to do. And who knows, it might have even been more than a hundred because how many mistakes do you have made along the way that that you're building on top of? So that that that's pretty awesome. So you got the you got the the the white wood with the lower third. You got the control system from from from from from fast. You also got a cabinet flat, right? Or you're getting a cabinet flat. Yeah, Ernie's making flat packs that are like to the stern kind of dimensions. And we love all of our machines but we tend to really gravitate towards the stern style and we all discussed that we wanted a stern style So we going to you know through pinball life we been buying all of our parts we going to continue to get them hopefully so that we can kind of make that cabinet painted and get it all set up in a kind of stern fashion And we've got a really cool art update to that that we haven't really told anybody about yet. So, so, so what I saw on Pinside, some mentioned that you have a pinball artist. I don't know if that's what you're teeing up right now. But is this is this related to that? Yeah. So probably the one thing that stressed us out the most was like, how are we going to do the play field art? It just seemed very complicated. Lucas uses Adobe Illustrator. I know Adobe Photoshop, but we're not artists, you know, and we're like, if we're going to go to all this trouble, it's got to look good. Yeah. So I follow Brian Allen on Instagram and I saw that he did a homebrew for Breaking Bad. And so and we had a couple of his translates from Cactus Canyon Attack from Mars. So I reached out to him and I said, hey, would you be interested in collaborating with us on this? And he said, yeah, sure. Here's my prices. And he was really great about it. And we had a little negotiation. And and so Brian Allen is going to do the playfield cabinet translate art for us. So we're super excited. That is, I had no idea. That's absolutely amazing. You know, one of the best pinball artists. Is he going to be doing your plastics as well? I didn't hear you say that. You know, we haven't gotten to that level of detail yet. But so far where we're at is, you know, we've got a Dropbox set up. So he's like, hey, I don't know. He's like, I got to download Overwatch, play some Overwatch. So he's going to start doing that, familiarize himself with the characters. And then we threw some images into different folders for each of the characters. So he can kind of, you know, see like what versions of those characters we like the look of. And, you know, eventually we'll start getting into the details of, you know, having that all laid out. But what we want to do next is we're really close to having the Whitewood, I hope, be final. Lucas is then going to plug it into Adobe Illustrator, which he really is a whiz on after, I guess, technology graphic design class in high school. So he's going to make it to scale Adobe Illustrator file that we'll use both to get the CNC cut of our next whitewood, but also to send to Brian Allen so he's got an idea of the layout. Are you going to have Trident Pinball do the next CNC cut of the playfield, or are you going to be doing that locally? Yeah, I think we're going to do that too. I mean, Ernie's been great, and I figured I'd rather support his business than go find a local woodworker here. It's actually pretty awesome that in addition to the community pieces and how helpful he is, the fact that he's willing to cut you however many whitewoods you want is like...
    22:22
    He went through what, nine whitewoods before he got to... He said that on the podcast a little while ago. So I'm super happy for the artwork. That is absolutely awesome. I cannot wait to see it. So I'll definitely keep following there. You also got some ramps as others have from Ramp-O-Matic. How did you end up using those ramps? Yeah, so we were, you know, we were really debating how and where to get them. And we wanted to do something just unique, you know, so like initially, I was like, oh, why don't we just get some old attack from Mars ramps, but we wanted to do something different. And I read about Ramp-O-Matic. I didn't, I never used them before. And there's just, you know, hundreds of ramps from all these really cool old games. Some of them are colored. So we kind of just sifted through and we were like, okay, we need a left ramp with a half curve. And so we probably bought a couple extra ramps that we didn't wind up using, but that's fine. Yeah. But it was really cool to just be able to kind of customize our game using this variety from Ramp-O-Matic that represents decades of different pinball machines from all these different eras. So that was really cool. Right, right. So I want to talk wire forms for a little bit. Who's been the one bending and figuring out the layout of the wire forms?
    23:38
    So we started, you want to tell them how we started, maybe what we used to start with? Yeah. So, well, we did use the actual like plastic on the ramp that we got from Ramp-O-Matic. And then we knew we wanted wire forms because we all just love the feel of the metal ramps. So we use like foam board. We just use painter's tape and foam board, cut holes, just cut it on sides and then attach those to the ramps for when we just had like on the piece of paper basically. Yep that was pre-white wood and then we've been watching the pinball room YouTube videos where he's building his machine so we downloaded some of his free 3d print files and we ordered some steel rods on Amazon and so that was our next iteration although those fell apart so then I contacted just through pinball makers.com Matt Gaulden who's the the rolling ball sculptures and we shipped him essentially we just did a to scale drawing of the wire forms that we wanted based on the foam work that we did and Matt did an amazing job one weekend fabricating those for us and and they fit great and eventually once it's all finalized we want to have them chrome plated or powder coated and like we're going like the full nine on this is going to be an le
    24:55
    look if you're going to build one you got to build an le like it's i mean it's going to it's going to take place of one of your prized possession machines behind you unless you're going to be building more space for it so you know you might as well get an le or build it
    25:07
    there's always more room there there is more room um eventually you'll run out um Um, so the, the, the big toy in the center, why don't you, uh, uh, either Cameron or Lucas, um, whoever picked that one, why don't you talk about what it is and where, where, where it came from? Oh, so there's this one character in Overwatch, it's D.Va. She has like this huge mech and she's like one of the main characters in the game, like that they showcase the most. So, um, there's Funko Pops that are basically, they have like iterations of everything out of Funko Pops, and then they made like a special giant one for the D.Va mech from Overwatch. So we got that and it's going to go right above the scoop in the game as like the big toy.
    25:55
    That's absolutely awesome. And then I was looking at pictures online and I didn't realize it, but and correct me if I'm wrong on this. Does it look like it actually opens up like there's a little person or little figure inside? Is that true? Yeah, it opens up and then the little pop head goes inside now now is are you going to do something with the fact that there's a mechanism there or like no nothing i'm saying like maybe once we're like finished everything we could add like a little pulley and it would open up a stupid backplot or something we're gonna need to work on that one it's it's it's it's really funny cameron you're you're looking at me um but when you said yes the other two said no so you're gonna clearly have to play some games to figure out whether you're good to go around. I like your idea about the pulley or use a solenoid or something.
    26:44
    I saw it in one of the pictures, and I was like, wow, that would make an actual pretty cool place for the ball to get locked, similar to how it is on Rush. Like put a magnet there.
    26:55
    I mean, you're doing your own design, so you don't need me telling ideas for it. Great idea. So, you know, we're all busy with our lives. It's awesome that you've really stood on the shoulders of giants, the rest of the community. You're clearly giving credit to them, which is awesome. And the fact that you gained the confidence to go down this journey, go onto the play field, actually, you know, go and build your own pinball machine is awesome. The fact that you're doing it as a family is awesome. How do you make the time? Like you had, you know, you said, as long as we do it a couple hours a week, how do you manage busy schedules? like how how are you making it happen well to be honest with you we're kind of just finding the time i think you know we're all very busy sports drama club everything pretty much you know i'm in high school i have a lot of clubs and it's really just at night if i can find a little time with either of them we can go work on something or we really just look at it as what's the next thing we can bang out on this next thing to finish the night you know and then you know trying to find time from there. Yeah and I think on any given day two of us is tired. Yeah. But if one of us had the little energy, like last night Cameron and I who usually have the energy, we were exhausted and Lucas was like let's get that scoop in there, come on guys. So we got the scoop in and then we wound up just doing three or four more things and until we ran out of parts. We actually were only limited by, we ran out of screws so we placed the pinball like order urgent you know priority mail. You think that it's running out of space for the pinball machines? No, it's actually running out of parts to build stuff.
    28:34
    Yeah, we're doing it too quickly. Need more parts. Well, look, that's a great problem to have is what I would say. So, you know, like you've got a good journey ahead of you. And it's awesome. Like you get for every hour you get to spend here, you're spending time with your kids, which is awesome. And it seems like you two enjoy spending time with dad. So that's awesome as well. It's good and good to see such a strong relationship there. And brothers as well. Like, you haven't fought a single time on this call. So that's fair. So what are you the three of you trying to get out of it? Like, what do you see? Like, you've got a journey ahead of you, but what do you see as the end of that journey? What do you want to, you know, at some point in the future, look back and say what? well you know he was actually talking about maybe bringing it to an expo that where I kind of envision the end is having other people play it and give us feedback on it and really enjoy the game I think that the end goal for me So I think you you just said you going to see me at expo Is what I just heard, right? That's right.
    29:40
    Yeah. We'll have to figure out which one, but we're definitely, that's definitely the goal. Oh, Chicago expo. That's that, that's the place to be like, you know, yeah. I'm hoping we can get it, get it done by then. I mean, a version of it. You got until October. What were you going to say? Sorry. Yeah, obviously just impress people. It should be amazing. But I just feel like it'll be cool to learn like a little bit more about like, because obviously we're not like building the coils and stuff, but we're like soldering. And I'm just, we're learning some of the mechanics of it. Like I never knew how a coil works until like a few weeks ago. So we're just learning about that stuff. So it's cool. Look, there's no better way to learn than applied science. Like the fact that you're actually building something, it's great that you're taking away that knowledge. Has working on the machine actually sparked an interest in engineering, technical stuff that you didn't know or did you have it before and it's expanding it? Like you didn't think about this before I said it.
    30:39
    Yeah, well, I think I always kind of took an interest in like seeing how things work. But this has really made me, you know, be like because you're building it from the ground up. You're seeing exactly everything that's going into it, everything that's making it work. And I think it's really interesting just like how much goes into a pinball machine and how, you know, they're mass produced. It's crazy. Absolutely. You can't. Well, I feel like I've always loved building things, but I was never really like that involved in like engineering and like actual technology. So I think it's cool to just learn more about that. So now I guess I could just do more because I've always just loved building stuff randomly. So that. Oh, go, go, go ahead, sorry. Oh, yeah, that's what I was going to say. You had mentioned earlier the Lego movie and and the the Lego theme. So clearly you you know, you you grew up playing playing Legos or building with Legos, I should say, or Lego. So nobody corrects me on that. Did, do you prefer to build the sets as designed or do you prefer just like go into creative mode? Oh, I do both kind of because a lot of the times when I like get a set that's like themed or something, I really like that theme. And usually the set is cool. So I just do both sometimes. Like sometimes I just want to make something that I just thought of and sometimes I just want to build what's already there. So once a year you have a ritual now with your cousin over Christmas. Yeah, yeah, um my cousin she also loves um Lego and they live like really close by like two minutes away So I guess it's a tradition now that like every Christmas break Because she gets back from college for Christmas So we all we just get together and just spend like a few days just building Legos We built this giant thing this year When they like lock themselves in a room and no one's allowed to see it for like three days And then they come with this like planet they created. I mean very creative stuff really cool stuff that's awesome Lucas what about you did you did you build with like it as well or not I did I was always more of a like build it how it's supposed to be built I think I was never more the creative side I was always like I'm spending my money on this cool thing I want to see in my room well tell him what you just built to that's relevant in your room oh yeah yeah I just built my first PC so congratulations thanks I always wanted a computer and we were talking about yeah maybe getting a pre-built but I was like maybe I'll just do this so I spent you know a couple weeks researching bought all the parts and spent a whole day building it and I was actually like super surprised that it booted I was like wow this is a miracle but how did you the cool story is how he got the PC right because he wanted it for a few years and we kept telling him no because Oh, yeah, okay. But he actually got it as part of the pinball machine budget because we needed a PC to do the coding and all that. So I was like, all right, you know what? If we're doing this, we need a PC because we have a Mac, and we need to run some of these programs on a PC. So I said, all right, we're going to roll it into the pinball machine budget. You're going to build yourself a PC, and then you have to do the coding. Always a win-win situation for me. I just heard that a Mac wasn't good enough to do the creative work necessary. The PC was needed. And I also heard that this was an expense for the pinball business. We expensed it.
    34:05
    That is incredible. But there's certain programs that there's no Mac version. Like I think Visual Pinball, there's no Mac version. So I was like, man, we need a PC now. I was like, I've been saying this for years, and now we're building a home group? Now we have time to build a PC?
    34:20
    So I've got a good handle that Dad, Mike, you know, He's got a circle of friends who are all into pinball. What about you, Lucas and Cameron? Have you told your friends that you're building a pinball machine or is it a secret? What do they think of it if you have to? I'm not saying you should keep it a secret. I just don't know what you guys have done. So tell me about your friends. Have they seen the machine? Are you going to do a big reveal? How are you approaching that? Well, our friends know about our current lineup. they don't well at least my friends don't specifically know about the homebrew because i feel like a lot of them aren't into pinball as much or they don't know what it is enough to you know kind of care as much as we do but you know that's definitely something i'll tell them about when we're finished i think it's really cool yeah uh my friends know about the pinball machines too like i have them over a lot but i don't i don't think i told anyone about the homebrew i have two friends that also like love overwatch so i feel like i might have told them but i'm not sure but i'll definitely call them soon and show them so it's not it's not a secret you're not waiting for some big reveal but then also like you're you're you're you're holding it for those that might actually be interested i i can i can appreciate that um i i have a feeling if you showed them the videos and the pictures of what what you folks are doing it would it would absolutely blow their minds. So it's awesome. Listen, that was everything that I wanted to cover. I think we covered a bunch of good stuff. Was there anything I missed that we should have discussed? I don't think so. No, I think we're super excited that you reached out to us. Like anyone who wants to talk pinball, amazing. Anyone who's interested in our project and our family, we're like super amazing. So, you know, really excited for the opportunity. Look, right back at the three of you. I saw it on Discord, actually, where you had posted. And I was like, oh, my God, you've got a dad and his kids or sons who are working on a pinball machine. This is my absolute dream. If my wife is listening to this, Alex, this is what I want to see happen. You know, all jokes aside, she's super supportive. My youngest daughter went to Expo with me last year. She's got the bug. And my oldest one, she at least knows that daddy likes it. But it's super cool to see the three of you working on this. I am super excited to see the machine get done. And although I'm not a big Overwatch player, I'm definitely familiar with the property. You know, it's near and dear on Xbox. And so I just want to say thank you very much for taking the time. Thank you for the awesome engagement. And I can't wait to see the machine come together. Let's get it to Expo. Thanks so much, Danny. Thanks for having us, man. Thank you. We look forward to providing the updates and meeting you soon and listening to the podcast. Thank you. Thanks for all that you do. Thanks. Thanks for joining the podcast. Thanks for listening. and I can't wait to see what you make.
    37:50
    Thank you.