The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. Pinball is the game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for The Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. When I wake up in the morning, love you. opens up with the Bill Withers. Do you know anything about Bill Withers there? Where's Bill? I don't know, but where's Bill is a common question that a lot of people have been asking lately. But Bill Withers, musician, artist, correct? One of the greatest singer-songwriters of all time passed away this last week. The guy was so full of soul and talent that I had to showcase some of the music of the wonderful genius that was Bill Withers, as well as, You know, Ken, some of his music and listeners, you know this as well, some of his music really sings true, pun intended, for the times that we're facing right now, the difficulties, the coming together. He's saying, lean on me. I mean, what perfect statement right now for this country and this world to stick together and lean on one another, just not, you know, personal boundaries aside. Lean from six feet away, please. That's exactly right. We opened it up, the show, with Little Lovely Day, because at the end of all of this, it will be a lovely day. Nice. Mm-hmm. And his music and his renditions sing true to what's been going on in our personal pinball lives so much so. Wait a minute. Just a minute, Ken. Okay. I'm reading Fresh News. Oh, holy shit. Okay. All right. Ken, can I run with the late-breaking story here? Yeah, from the bottom of the pile, it sounded like. Absolutely. Late breaking news bulletin here at the Pinball Show. Ladies and gentlemen, listeners and fans of the Pinball Show, the Pinball Network special when lit pinball podcasting, flipping out pinball streaming channel, you name it, we have a huge announcement. And by we, I mean Ken Cromwell. So, Ken, fill these individuals in on a huge change, both positive and negative for me, but a huge change that's going to be going on here at the pinball store. I was not aware this was the direction you were taking. I was actually kind of curious what the news was. I knew you didn't want to really hype this up, but you know me, hype man. No, no. So something exciting has happened for me personally, and we kind of discussed that. I'd like to share this with everybody, if you don't mind. And today will be my last podcast on the Pinball Network for the Pinball Show. And Monday, which is, depending on when you listen to this show, could be the same day that I'll be doing our – I'll be co-hosting the last Flip N Out Pinball stream for myself personally. I'll be stepping away from both of those media outlets. Why? Why are you doing this to me? It's because something outstanding happened to me, and I couldn't be more excited. I am transitioning out of what I have been doing, and I have signed an offer letter to become the communication specialist for Jersey Jack Pinball. So I couldn't be more excited. It was something that's been weeks in the works, and there's a lot of great people that helped along the way. But I couldn't be more honored and more excited to get into something that I'm so passionate about, about, meaning pinball in the industry, and to kind of be rooted down on a team that I have really grown to appreciate over the past couple of years. You love everyone over there. I know that. I really, really do. I mean, I've got a lot of friends at a lot of different of the pinball companies and manufacturers. The Jersey Jack pinball team has always been a team that I've thought completely highly of. So for me to kind of be a part of that team is a big honor. Especially with the move. They're moving to Chicago, so it makes so much sense for you now. Yes, yes. And that was kind of the thing. Like, I always thought it would be nice to work for a Jersey Jack pinball. I mean, with them being in New Jersey, it doesn't make any sense for me to do that because I'm in, you know, St. Charles, Illinois. But now with the manufacturing side coming over, I had reached out to Eric Minier and Jack Guarnieri. And I said, you know, when you guys are coming to Elk Grove Village, you're in my backyard. If you think that I would be a good fit on a team and there's going to be jobs that might be created during this move, I would appreciate it if I could have a conversation with somebody. And that kind of steamrolled into, you know, sitting down and having an outstanding dinner with Leonard and Brett Abbas and Albert Valera as well as Eric Meunier. And we talked for a couple hours about the direction of the company and how I might, you know, fit in on a team. And that went well, and I got a chance to sit down later on a second kind of follow-up, and that was with Marcy Jerkowitz and Tara Schweed. And that went really, really well. And then just the other day, there was an offer letter. So I graciously accepted. I'm ridiculously excited. I mean, I think that's played a role here. So, yeah, no, it's really, really exciting. I start Monday, April 13th, and I'll be working remotely to start. But this is a full-time gig. I'm switching my career starting April 13th. Now, remotely, because we are still sheltering in place under the state of Illinois, which makes sense. But I'm eager to get started. I'm excited. I understand there's a great responsibility here. And I wanted to thank everybody that has had an opportunity to take part in the pinball content that I've been able to play a role in over the last couple years. And without me having this outlet and without getting the feedback and really getting to know the community on a more personal level, I don't know that any of this is possible. And, Zach, I want to thank you so much. Collectively, we've had a lot of fun times creating pinball content. Absolutely. And the friendship that we have is something that I appreciate so very much. And, you know, in the beginning, I never really envisioned how deep our friendship would blossom, so to speak, but I'm so appreciative of that. I think my one regret is that when arguably we're at the base of this hill with creating pinball content And I have to kind of step away. And that part is difficult. That being said, it's the right move. And I couldn't be more happy. If I couldn't do what I'm doing now with you, this is exactly what I would like to be doing. So for that, I'm grateful in all aspects. So thank you very much. Thank you, TPN. Thank you, listeners, supporters, friends along the way. I'm not going anywhere as far as I'll be around. I'm accessible, and I hope to be able to create additional pinball content for Jersey Jack Pinball, so that will come in time. In the meantime, man, I'm just going to kind of get myself rooted into that team, and I'm glad that we were able to address this at the beginning of the episode. There's a lot of huge stories going on globally, right? So I understand the importance of that. I would just like to share something that I'm excited about and what I think is a feel-good story, a feel-good story, at least for myself. So I'm happy to share good news with everybody, And that's what I am doing today. So I think every listener at home knows that follows the program of my fondness towards you, my pride that I have in being your friend. I want to dedicate this episode to you. So you guys will hear you guys will hear about my love and appreciation for. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's not necessary. I know you don't like that. That's why I want to do it even more. Five minutes in episode eight to discuss that, man. It doesn't have to be all about this. As excited as I am to talk about it. Like, I know. Totally not necessary. I know. Yeah, I know. Let's just say that. I know. Okay. Thank you. So we'll talk about that some more. But Jersey Jack Pinball, that's an A-plus hire there. I was. You know, there are people that are in their cars right now or listening at home that are hoping that this is the shortest episode of the Pinball Show. No. And you know what? Even selfishly, like between you and I, man, we are so passionate about this industry that Something like this, this is the big leagues. This is what you've not necessarily been working for, but this is what you've aspired to become, part of a team that's making a huge difference in the industry that you love. And who better than a company that, Tim, you and I both know the exciting stuff that is about to occur in the next year, five years for Jersey Jack Pinball. So it's so smart of them to do this. I cannot credit them enough for this decision. and with you buddy you're going to kill it you continue to kill every single thing you do I've told you once before and I'll tell you again it's hard to keep up with my idiocracy and my tenacity but you do it you've been able to do it the whole time we're cut from the same cloth in that aspect for sure yeah and look so we can't podcast we're still best buddies and now we're going to be able to work within the industry together So that's a cool new chapter of our friendship that I'm really looking forward to. So, yeah, this is phenomenal. It's bittersweet, of course, because you and I, we had a big idea for this, and it has come to fruition. It's going to keep growing in honor of you as well. But as the great Bill Withers once said, Ain't no sunshine when he's gone. He's saying that. Oh, yeah. Only darkness every episode. And you know sunshine, winter is gone. And this podcast just ain't no show. Anytime he goes to JJP. My own little tribute, man. That was outstanding. Thanks, bud. I appreciate it. Holy cow. Gotta love Bill Withers. Rest in peace. Yeah, yeah. That was good, man. I appreciate it. I have not been serenaded by anybody on the podcast before. So, you know, in short, what does that mean for the Pinball Network? It means that we have been privileged enough to experience some leadership in Ken Cromwell, and with his departure, it's not going to change anything. We have a couple of adjustments we are making. The pinball show will still continue to be weekly. The midweek show will still continue to be utilized as needed whenever news pops up or special topics like Dennis Creasel and David Dennis' talk on COVID-19. Excellent, excellent listen if you haven't listened to that. A lot of information there, yeah. So good. So I have coerced Mr. Creasy Fosheesy. I've coerced him to join weekly with me on the pinball show. Yeah. Hold on. Oh, yep. Ladies and gentlemen, this just in, Dennis Creasel has accepted a full-time position at Pinball Network as the weekly co-host of the Pinball Show with Zach Menne. Don't scare me. This hand primal steps aside. There you go, man. Well, that's kind of cool because now this is like you guys have that dynamic, and the people love it, man. Yeah, we'll continue to make you proud. Now, also, when it comes to we're amping up our streaming efforts, all of our TPN streaming affiliates, we're focusing on that, so you'll see some changes there, as well as some additional faces. being added to that in the YouTube sector. But George from Don't Panic Flip, we have asked him, and he graciously accepted more of a lead position on coordinating and organizing streaming efforts from the Pinball Network. So you'll see and hear a lot from George at Don't Panic Flip. That's an excellent choice. He's great. George will spearhead that, no problem. He's been a wealth of knowledge and a lot of help technically. Yeah, he's a good guy on top of it. That's important. You want to be with good people. Nicely done there. I love how humble you are. You just can't. You hate it. You hate the limelight. Let's take the limelight off you. Let's take the spotlight off you. And let's kick it over to our correspondents for the additional news of the week. It's time for TPN Industry News. Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to wreak havoc on the pinball scene as well as life in general, things are understandably quiet on the Jersey Jack front. It would appear that the announcement of the new release has been delayed and will be delayed until potentially October. So that leaves a long time for us to wait for news from Jersey Jack on their next title. The Twippy Awards were announced this past Saturday and Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory won several major awards including Best Theme, Best Animations and Display, and Best Light Show. Despite the current move to Chicago, Jersey Jack says that they have Willy Wonka's in stock and available. It would appear that they built up a supply of machines before they stopped the line in anticipation of the move. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. Gomez Dishes, Stern declares a showdown. More code updates and goodbye to one of our own. Hey everyone, Craig here again, the pinball show's Stern News Correspondent. Well, now that the full reality of the coronavirus lockdown is sinking in, leaving pinball manufacturers, operators, and new-in-box buyers literally pulling their hair out as they watch the 2020 season evaporate quicker than canned sanitizer and toilet paper at Walmart, Stern's own George Gomez, pinball executive, designer, and renaissance man extraordinaire, gave pinheads everywhere a glimmer of hope to the future of pinball at Stern. Yes, courtesy of Bob Johnson's 80s arcade podcast, Zach Menny's Homie Gomi proclaimed, this coming year I'm going to put the games online. That is the project I'm most excited about is the connectivity project. That is what I'm focused on every day now. And during this time of shutdowns and closures, Stern is introducing a new online voting game called the Stern Showdown. This epic-termic pits 32 of the best Stern pinball machines ever against each other to find out which is the best Stern machine of all time. Starting on Tuesday, April the 7th, vote in a new battle poll on Stern's Facebook and Twitter pages. New battles will launch every 48 hours until there's one machine left standing. And the Stern coders continue to pump out new code this week for none other than Iron Man V1.85 for both the Vault and Original Edition models, and for Stranger Things, code V.87. This dynamic code update amplifies story modes and incorporates new custom speech and call-outs for actor David Harbour, better known as Police Chief Jim Hopper. But beyond all that news, we have some happy and sad news this week at the Pinball Show for our esteemed colleague and one of our founding fathers, Ken Cromwell. Ken, you did it, man! Way to go! I know this is a big dream of yours to be working in the industry and to actually being paid for what you do in the industry. We're all so proud of you and happy for you. Jesus, I sound like your dad right now. Well, anyway, you're obviously irreplaceable, and you're also responsible for assembling this ragtag Greekos Rebels and Correspondence here at the Pinball Show and before that at Special and Lit. You truly helped set the bar for pinball podcasting and streaming with your class and professionalism and with all the charity work you did last year within the hobby. Jesus, you're like the wizard mode in Willy Wonka. Many will try, but so few will make it. But if I had to look into my pinball crystal ball, I don't think this is the last time we're going to either see or hear old Ken Cromwell on the airwaves. And when that day comes, it will be a welcome and happy day indeed. But we shall wait and see. Good luck, buddy. We're going to miss the hell out of you. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side. Welcome to this week's Spooky Haggis Industry Talk with Dr John. Not much to report from Spooky with Wisconsin being in lockdown so no parts going in or out. So we'll all patiently wait until our Rick and Mortys recommence the build. Damien from Haggis recently released a new YouTube clip showing the three variations of playfield that are available. That being the traditional wood, the hybrid acrylic in on scratch surface and the hybrid acrylic with clear coat. If you prefer the feel of clear coat, as Zach does in his own mind, it is available for a $500 Australian upgrade, which is only about $6 US, I think, at the moment. So it's not too bad a deal. Anyway, that's all that's happening. Damien's going to release another update soon with more show special pricing for these variations. Hope to catch you again next week. With some more news, see you then. All right, always good hearing from the correspondents. And as we get deeper and deeper into the news, we can flash back. But I wanted to jump on this story kind of out of the gates, and that is Gamma Goat on Twitch, who we know as Ian Herro. Did I just say goat? There it is. Gamma Goat. So he gets his Multimorphic heist kit And he jumps on board and he starts streaming Now we've seen more and more Video or streaming of this game I've got Correspondents coming in In my personal emails and messenger asking To actually discuss more and more about the game Getting our thoughts about it To get a chance to see any additional coverage Since the initial reveal stream That Nicholas Baldridge had done Yeah I watched a little bit of this Mr. Goat's stream there. Ian's stream over there. He did a phenomenal job. He had a nice setup too. This was shown in a better light, if you will, regarding some camera angles and explanation of rules, explanation of code and modes. I gotta tell ya, his stream kind of won me over a little bit. It really, really does look like a blast of a game. And my takeaway from his stream, which is phenomenal for the product and the representation, is that crane is pretty f***ing cool. Yeah, I think an initial impression when you look at the crane, you're like, okay, so it's kind of like a crane 2.0. It's a little bit more advanced than what we're used to seeing a crane doing in a game. But yeah, the crane is on steroids. It's a pretty impressive mech. I know that Jerry, right, you know, Jerry was saying that this might be the most incredible mech that's ever graced itself within a pinball machine. And I'm sure there's, you know, that's open to interpretation and argument there, but it's absolutely impressive, and it seems to be very well implemented within the theme and for the gameplay code, rule set, etc. Yeah, it was a monster, too. I thought it was just going to be a regular crane action, but this thing, somebody wrote on Pinside, I believe, that the crane almost has a personality in the game itself, and damn if they weren't right. I thought it was Hokyu in this head that I was like, oh, give me a freaking brain. No, they're right. This thing, like, it darts out and it shoots out and it's implemented into modes so i'm going to uh not i'm not eating a full crow maybe just a little uh claw but it looks pretty fun looks pretty fun now if i'm being transparent the theme alone still you know i don't know if it's going to pull me in like i would love but some of the modes man they were different stuff it was for an original theme i think that this is one of the more appealing original themes that I've seen released in my recent memory just because... I can agree with that. I mean, anybody can get behind a good Heist story, and again, the character presentation, it looks fun, it looks appealing, the artwork draws you in, it's the city under glass, it's the whole package, whereas you may not recognize, you may not call to the attention of that being an original theme in a negative way. I mean, this could be something that maybe takes people by surprise as something that's more of a successful original theme. Now, platform itself limits its exposure for people to kind of jump on it initially, but I do see this, at least in my opinion, as potentially being the best there is to offer right now for P3. Yeah, I mean, I think you're on point there. It's hard to argue otherwise just by seeing what we have seen thus far. If I'm balancing it, I'm still, you know, we've got artwork, we've got the animation. I don't know these listeners deserve for me to be honest and I still don't know if the animation is where Multimorphics needs to focus on that sounds crazy you got a big old screen as your play field I just think there could be so much more done with static art rather on that LCD screen that would lend itself better than trying to animate a storyline to put on that play field You're never going to catch up to what we're accustomed to. You're always going to be dated, and it doesn't matter how well the animators are. When you're creating your own story and you're trying to put it into one single game, it's going to be hard to create a human-based Sonic or Mario or Ninja Turtle. Creating a brand like that is going to be damn near impossible. I would rather, and I've said this before, I don't know if it was in this medium, but give me a playfield, Jerry, that is static artwork that sits by itself and looks phenomenal. I want a Zombie Yeti-esque artwork package. Make it look like a playfield. Put inserts on that screen. But the difference is... And again, for those that might not be up to speed, on the P3 Multimorphic, the playfield is not made out of your typical plywood clear coat. It's an actual LCD screen that enables the developer to have animated backgrounds versus a static play field. Very good. Thank you. Yeah, and there's ball tracking within it. So if a ball is on the play field, there's sensors that know it's there. So you can have like smoke. I do like that little vapor trail behind it. I think it's a very cool touch. On the heist, you've got dollars that are floating and going towards the drain. If you roll over a dollar, you collect it and can use it. It's smart. It's smart technology. so with that prefaced if it was just that let's use Deadpool as an example right okay let's say you know everybody listener can you guys know what the Deadpool playfield looks like it's exquisite beautiful let's lay that on an LCD screen it's static the whole time but during certain moments things happen and they interact with that seemingly static playfield such as maybe you get a jackpot shot and Deadpool winks at you or maybe during certain modes, it looks as if the insert on a wood playfield lifts up and something crawls out underneath to go swiping for your ball. Maybe when you're in the T-Rex mode, the T-Rex comes to life. He stays in his spot on that playfield, but he comes to life. Like a pinball FX type of thing. Absolutely. I think it was Taz, our correspondent, said it very nicely. He said, man, just think of what Jerry at Multimorphic could have done if he partnered up with Zinn. Okay. creating these virtual tables that everybody does love, but on a medium that is still physical pinball. And I thought, it was like a light bulb for me. I thought, wow, that would be phenomenal. But I want to see more of that. That, I think, is what could bridge potentially the gap of that classic diehard pinball player wanting beautiful art and physicality of pinball and not throwing them into the deep of full-blown animation. Because, like I said before, it's going to be hard to catch up. It's an interesting take. I mean, the nice thing with this design is the play field never has to be final. They can always make changes. Whether or not they go in for a complete overhaul on what looks more like a static play field with additional animations, at this point, I don't really know. But, I mean, I'm sure the feedback would be taken into consideration maybe for the next title. I do think that Heist has enough interest generated for them to continue to make another game. That's just where I'm looking from the outside. I mean, I'm interested in it. I think it looks cool. I always thought the most amount of time that I had on a P3 game was Lexi Lightspeed, and I had fun playing Lexi Lightspeed. That's a great game. Yeah, I mean, I make sure to get on Heist. And the only reason I'm like that, the only reason I'm offering this instead of just saying, yeah, I like it or I don't like it, is because I do see and feel the potential that Jerry has with Multimorphic. And I think this is a big step forward, and I think it can continue to be exponential steps if we do something new and fresh with future games. So that's the only reason I'm speaking out the way that I am, because I'm pretty passionate about the system, because it is an engineering marvel in pinball. I've said it, and I'll continue to tout that. But I'm looking forward to playing Heist. I'm looking forward to playing it, too. You know how excited Jerry is about it. And he wants to keep pushing the envelope. He wants to show people what P3 can do. And, again, this is the next step in the process, and I think it looks great. Talk about what a manufacturer can do. Did you see what a streaming channel in pinball can do? Did you see this last week? Deadflip? Yeah. Okay. So, no, I didn't see the Deadflip streams, but I've seen what he's doing, or at least I've seen screen caps and whatnot, where it's essentially four streams combined that he's hosting, right? And then they're all able to play a game at their own location and kind of compete, battle a four-player in real time with virtually no delay or zero delay. Absolutely. And what he did this last week with Iron Maiden is he got 20 people, 20, on one screen around the world to all simultaneously play one another and battle one another during certain objectives on Stern Pinball's Iron Maiden. And it was kind of hard to watch and to follow. Is that Zoom? Do you know what he's using for interface? No, I don't know what he was using. But he was touting it as being no delay. and the reception has been killer on it. People have really enjoyed it. He was being the commentator. Jack Danger from Deadflip was the commentator during it all and kind of directing it. It came across really well. People are loving it. I thought it was a damn feat to get 20 people all at one time. That sounds crazy. See, for me, I'm more impressed with the ability to utilize the technology to do that versus me kind of seeing 20 people playing head-to-head. Like competitive pinball for me, like I don't want to really – I don't pay as much attention to watching it when I'm watching streaming because I do kind of like having like the one-on-one approach with, you know, whoever's hosting. Of course. But if you're like heavy into competitive pinball, I don't know that it gets any better where you can see 20 people going live head-to-head. But, again, from a technical standpoint, I know that Jack aspires to, you know, be a leader in that aspect of streaming along with other things. It's an unbelievable feat. So I will go back and I will check that out because I just thought that they were doing like four player head-to-heads. I didn't know that there were 20 people. And you know how it is to just get a single stream up and running for the most part. Once you iron out the bugs, you're kind of on autopilot, but there's always a variable that gets introduced at some point that catches you off guard. And you have to be able to make changes on the fly to make the stream continue as seamlessly as possible. to take 20 feeds and try to make sense of that, that's impressive. So congratulations. That's pretty awesome. Yeah, and I think next week he's going to do a Deadpool International. So for people around the world that want to battle it out on Deadpool, what better time than during all of our shelters in place than to tune into some streaming. You know what? Streaming has been kind of trending up right now on pinball. A lot of people have come to the forefront streaming a lot of pinball machines. Shout out to the Pinball Mafia, who was streaming, I think, during that Iron Maiden battle. So they are a TVN affiliate. Oh, a little TVN representative. Nice. And George has been George from Don Panic Flip he been kind of doing this type of thing for a little bit now He always on the forefront of interaction commands and chat with what going on in his room He's going to continue to be a force to be reckoned with, and I can't wait to see what he provides and brings to TPN. And other exciting news, Zach, we've got new code being released. Oh, I like new code. An excellent opportunity for lead programmers and their teams to kind of address code issues further along code, even revisit old code. No joke. And re-release. So what you got for code updates this week? We've got an Iron Man. Now, you guys heard it. Iron Man. Iron Man. Not Maiden. Nope. Iron Man. Iron Man with the release by Stern Pinball of the Vault, the re-release of the Vault, the re-release of the Vault. It's like a Vault squared. They came out with 1.85 code for Iron Man, and one of the biggest features is a new skill shot rule. Thankfully, a new skill shot rule. a lot of competitive players and a lot of just players in general, always called for a new skill shot rule. Are you a skill shot guy, Zach? I do like the skill shot. Are you always going for skill shots? Doesn't a skill shot have to be lucrative for you to waste the time, or is it just fun for you to try to hit the skill shot? I think it's just kind of fun, especially if it's difficult. Now, what I hate, I think the most piss-poor skill shot is the one that you just plunge to the top lanes and you can control it. With the buttons, yeah. That's the saddest thing. Like, I hate that. I would like to see more people. Well, Ghostbusters is tough in that way, right? Because you're pre-selecting your lane. See, I like that. And then you're plunging. There's risk versus reward. And I also, there's something about just gripping it and rip it. Like, holding that left flipper, plunging it, and a controlled gate lets you go all the way around. And on the fly, just, bam, try to break something in your machine. I love that super skill shot kind of thing. And now that's what Iron Man has. By activating and holding the left flipper button, you can plunge the ball to the top lanes. The left orbit up post will remain down, and the normal skill shot will be disabled. How about it? It's intense. Yeah, I like it. I like it, too. They've got some cleanups, some tweaks, some cleanups, some balancing, and people are saying it was a really nice, welcomed code update. Maybe we'll get a Twippy category for best skill shot next year. That wouldn't be horrible. Wouldn't be horrible. They did add some speech, too, within this. They've got some cool stuff. They've got some cool stuff. Are you an Iron Man guy? I know, from what I understand, I've got a little time on Iron Man. It's a good tournament game, I guess, because it's quick ball times. There aren't any scoring exploits. Are you a fan of the game personally? Hmm. I mean, let's say if you have a collection of 20, does Iron Man make its way in the rotation at any time, or is it just not something that calls to you necessarily? It's one of those things like a Tarantino film. A lot of Tarantino films, I respect and I appreciate them, but I don't like them personally. It's not my type of game. It's my type of game for a week that I own it. You do like brutal games. I do. You like hard games. I do. So the first week I own it, there's nothing like it because I'm really trying to attack that do-or-die multiball and trying to get to what is virtually impossible. But it runs its course for me a little bit. That's fair. I like something that has depth that is also a bastard of a game that's just so mean. So I need a little balance. Like if you give me too long of ball times anymore, I'm starting to kind of turn away from those too. It doesn't matter how much depth they have. So that's why I like something like A Stranger Things. Because say what you will, it has depth and it is a mean son of a bitch at times. It is so mean. The best games I've ever had on Stranger Things were games where I approached them thinking, all right, I got about four minutes, and I'll put a game on there. And then I end up starting to blow the machine up, and I start leveraging myself with high-risk shots in the hopes that I'll drain it, and somehow it pays off. I'm now in the game of my life. Right, exactly, man. It's like I'm in the game. This happens so many times on so many games where I'm just trying to panic flip and just get out of dodge. I end up, man, I think I overthink pinball sometimes for myself, but it's always so interesting. and I'm like, hey, the pizza man's going to be here in about seven minutes. I'll get a game of Beatles in. And then all of a sudden I'm at like eight, nine, ten million points on Beatles and I'm like, pizza man's got to wait. He's going to have to wait. You're like, just put the pizza on the front porch. I'll PayPal you. Well, now that's not so far-fetched to ask for, I suppose. Hey, that's no joke. Speaking of Stranger Things, they had a code update, .87. This thing isn't even in the 90s yet, and this is a big code update. It goes up .01, and we see a lot of updates to Stranger Things by Stern Pinball. They added a ton of speech, a ton of call-outs from Hopper. Yeah. Hopper call-outs. It's really, really good. They also fixed a lot of logic to the game, a lot of thinking issues they fixed. In your opinion, would you consider this a fairly robust update for Stranger Things? I mean, this isn't just addressing some small technical issues. Yeah, I'd say this is a moderate update. So, and if you think about it, if you look at the way in which the code number has progressed, it does show you that that code number isn't necessarily representative of the amount of completion being done or about to be done on a game. Absolutely. So we're getting a lot of visual stuff that is changing on this, a lot of cleaning up of video stuff. Because you have to remember, listener, on Stranger Things, especially the Premium LE, they're dealing with two different displays here. Right. Not only are pictures and videos presented on the main LCD screen up top in the head, but also on the playing field as well, that projection mapping screen. So a lot of stuff there. This game keeps getting better and better. It's kind of like Elvira, man. Elvira is just screaming right now. Elvira took a little bit of time to kind of ferment. Oh, yeah. That's what I meant. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's another fun game. It keeps getting better, and the smile on my face just remains there. The last thing I was going to bring up, stern-related, is they had a little sneak peekage. A little beep-boop. Oh, that's right. That's right. And right up your alley, because it's in a category in which you are very fond of and that you've pioneered, and that is the topper category. Toppers! Topper talk. How do you top toppers? Can you? No, you'd have to get something to go above the topper. Oh, my God. Yeah. You'd have to project onto the ceiling above the topper. Oh, careful now. That crummy. I know. It's getting you excited. What did you see for topper, Sneak Peek? Now, there was a post, I believe it was on Facebook, then followed up with a forum discussion on it. But an individual went to the factory, took a picture with Playbetter Steve Ritchie and Tim, I'm now a coder, Sexton. Yep. Took a picture by the Black Knight, but to the left of it in the Stern Arcade, Jurassic Park Pro with a topper on it. Topper. Yeah, so what did you think of the topper? And this is the thing, right? So we are just kind of coming. We're still riding the high of the Black Knight Sword of Rage. I mean, let's face it. It's incredible. We're still waiting for him to ship. Okay, so there you go, too. You see the Jurassic Park topper, and it looks nice. It looks like it's multi-layered. But from what I can tell, it does look like a static topper. I'm assuming there's some type of interaction with lighting. But I thought it looked like a nice topper. I mean, it's a nice decorative piece that could go on top of your backbox. It's hard to tell just from a static faraway picture as to if we'll get any interaction. I think just based on the layout and what Stern has done before, we get very much similar to like a Deadpool or a Beatles, even maybe an Iron Maiden. I really like the Beatles topper, though. I mean, that's a static topper, but it's awesome. I mean, it's a great topper. But it is, yeah. It gives you information. The light shows interact with the gameplay. And I think, does Deadpool have a moving piece? Sometimes they have, like, a little bitty motor feature that moves, like, on the box. Yeah, I think Deadpool had, like, the thumbs up or the thumbs down, depending on if you matched during match at the end of the game. I think that's how I remember it. You know, arguably, some of your better toppers are static toppers. And when you look solely at Stern, I mean, look at the Walking Dead topper, that aquarium topper. I think it's such a cool-looking topper. It's one of the greatest. Yeah, yeah. So this one falls into the mid-range for me, my reaction, because Stern has not really made an ugly topper, in my opinion. They're all at least visually appealing, and they look better on there than not on there. Then you go all the way up that spectrum to a Black Knight sort of rage where the damn thing is talking. to you. This falls kind of in between. I'll have to see it in person and what the light show does and if there is any moving mechanics in there. But from far away, yep, fits the part. Gotta have it. They're not phoning it in on these toppers. And I think now they're kind of appreciating that there is a greater appreciation for toppers. I wonder how that happened recently, Zach. I mean, toppers are in. And these toppers that are no longer being manufactured and have gone out of manufacturing especially like these Stern toppers, are going for a lot of money. And I don't know if you want to discuss it. I know just recently you had a Ghostbusters topper that sold for a lot of money. And it's just amazing to me. So we sold a Ghostbusters topper. It was pre-owned. It wasn't even new in the box. We had a pretty penny for it. I had about four people in line willing to pay for it if it fell through. And then I was reached out by an individual that said that he was willing to pay $1,200 for said topper. Ken, a used topper. For the Ghostbusters? $1,200 plus shipping. Wow. I mean, arguably, you can get a decent-shaped, early, solid-state Stern pinball machine for the same price as the Ghostbusters topper. Absolutely. Give me the topper all day. It's amazing. I'm going to start ordering toppers in triplicate and just keep a couple in box, right? Like, I'll just hoard up toppers. That'll be my thing. The problem is, like, you know how I feel about toppers. Good idea, actually. I like toppers. I know, right? It's like, but, I mean, are they producing enough? Like, even for now, Black Knight Sword of Rage is still waiting for a lot of those toppers to ship. So, I wonder if they cap the number out or if they just make them on demand or how that works. I have no idea. You know, I don't know, but as a dealer, they do cut the runs sometimes. They'll say, look, there's 15 left and we're not building any more for the foreseeable future. And then they do some that are limited, like your Star Wars topper, that only have a certain amount. Then they will rerun sometimes. Word is that the Beatles topper is going to get a small little bitty run here within the next couple months. So if they are into it, maybe they come back. They can vault a topper if they want to, right? Topper vaults. Yeah, and I don't know if that is included in the licensing fee or how that works. I have no clue. All I just know is I want them. Ghostbusters topper. Yeah, I mean, it's not like a one-to-one replica of the Ecto-1. And I don't think there's any Ghostbusters, anything on there, really. I mean, if you looked at it without knowing what it was. Oh, it's symbolic, Cromwell. Don't you shit on the Ecto-1. No, no, no. What I'm saying is that would allow them maybe some creative license or liberties to be able to produce the topper without having to run it through a licensing renewal. You know what I mean? Because it's obscure enough to where it's not immediately identifiable by somebody that wouldn't know otherwise. My dream is one day I wake up and Stern gets a hold of me and says, Hey, as our dealer, we just want to give you a heads up. We're going to be re-releasing Ghostbusters with the same lovely art package. We're going to fix the flipper gap. We get it. And then we're going to do a run of toppers again. And I'll be like, hallelujah. A little LCD in the backbox. That'd be crazy vault. It would be the vault of all vaults if you could do that. Oh, vault. So, yeah, toppers are – and I'm going to give you guys a little tip on toppers because I am the topper extraordinaire. I would say if you are wanting to get your hands on toppers that are not rare now but could be hard to get in the future, Game of Thrones topper. Oh, the dragon. Yeah. Just wait. That one's going to be really hard to find in the future, I bet. I would also throw this out there. If somebody has a stern topper that they were not able to put on top of their machine, maybe because of ceiling limitations or just lack of interest of doing so, and you're looking to get rid of that topper, you could probably contact Zach at FlippinOutPinball.com because he will be interested in surplus of stead toppers. I have bought a game before just because of the topper. Just because of the game with the topper. I was like, eh, the topper's hard to get. I think I'm going to buy the whole damn thing. Yeah, and you're like, hey, if I piece that out, like, It kind of recoups a little bit of the cost. It's business. Yeah, I can see that. It's business. And if we're going to keep plugging, I'll plug that I do have right now, ladies and gentlemen, Deadpool toppers in stock. Just saying. Buy, buy, buy! Oh, you know what? Really, really, can I say this really quick? Yeah. A correction last week. Ryan C. reached out to me last week. I said that one of the best interviews Head to Head Pinball had ever done was with Tim Crisco. Crisco? Yeah. Crisco. I was wrong. It was actually Chris Granner. and I just, in the moment, I got confused. The Chris Granner interview is the one you want to listen to as we're talking about pinball media. Go to HeadHeadPinball. Because if you're looking for the Tim Crisco interview, you're not going to find it because it never happened. I don't know. Maybe Buffalo Pinball. I think Buffalo Pinball might have interviewed him. I made a mistake. In any event, I wanted to correct it. Nice correction. Say that honestly. Thank God I'm getting out of the media side of things. I'm losing my mind. Humiliation and everything. You're good. You're good. All right. As we keep going with the pinball news, we've got a lot of things that are up and down but most importantly what we should be doing right now is see what's trending up Zach and what do we got for that come on come all come to send off a farewell to Ken Cromwell as we open up this week's segment of the pinball show pinball market trend woohoo into the stratosphere we go And trending up this week is also a little game that just topped the Pinside Top 100 list. That's a game by co-worker to Ken Cromwell, Eric Meunier, and his creation of Pirates of the Caribbean by Jersey Jack Pinball. Up, up, up she goes. Where she stops? Well, she's going to stop at number one for now, because Pirates of the Caribbean, the collector's edition, just received a rating atop the Pinside 100 list of 9.661. beat that medieval madness at 8.906. That's quite a lofty space in between there. It's a huge jump. Yeah, I don't know that I've ever seen a game that has hit pin side. It could be wrong. At number one at anything close to 9.5 or 9.6. It's pretty big. With the times that we're facing right now, and we're seeing some of the secondary markets wax and wane a little bit, we're all waiting for the bubble to pop. A little pop. Not too bad, right? I used to be able to make a drop. I did too. Oh, that was a good one. It's hard because they're inconsistent. It's so satisfying when you get that good one. Yeah, you've got like a deeper drop, and I've got like a more shallow, pale drop going on there. Well, you know what they say. The deeper the drop. The stagger, the nuts. No. Yeah, I don't even know what the hell. That doesn't make sense at all. At all. Right. Even though it's pinball marketing. Yeah, I'm high and tight there based on my high pitch. The prices really haven't dropped, per se, too much on the Pirates of the Caribbean by Jersey Jack pinball. Still, everybody's trying to get their hands on it. Many people still claim it to be the greatest pinball machine created of all times. Woo. Eh. But it's still trending up in my books. Also training up this week. Oh. Sit back and be quiet, Ken, because training up this week is Tim Cromwell. That's right. I've never trained it up on anything, man. You are training up. You are training up. What's training up? This individual is training up because, number one, he is now a certified pinball ambassador. You heard it here. Marked by the pinball network itself. Tim Cromwell, here on out, referred to as Pinball Ambassador. So you're now a pinball ambassador. Congratulations. Tim Cromwell helped raise over $50,000 to children's charity and Project Pinball. And this event also kind of gave us a sneak peek in a rare public showing and discussion of intercompany creators. You don't get to see that too often of individuals from Stern having discussions live on air between individuals at JJP or old Bally Williams designers or coders. Look, it was awesome. Ken Cromwell also conducted panel interviews with Special Win Lit Pinball Podcast, who was nominated as a top three Twippy contender for best favorite podcast of 2019. Oh, bro, you're making me blush here. I mean, yeah. Making me blush. And these conductive panel interviews are now archive time capsules for everyone to enjoy for years to come. Ken Cromwell also helped create a different type of pinball streaming channel and environment that has quickly become recognized as a standard of excellence in pinball broadcasting. I'm going to say that. He also coordinated to meet with the media events at Chicago Expo. Expo. He did that just from his own good will, wanting to interact between the public sector and the media so everybody can meet that. He's always standing up for what is right. You get emotional here. Even when it is tough to do so, I commend you for that, Ken Cromwell. And also, Ken Cromwell, last thing, is trending up because he showed the pinball industry that pinball media can be successful while still exhibiting honesty, pride and trust training up can crumble and never forgotten thank you man that's very very nice of you to say all those things I know you hate that I'm sorry I'm not accepting an award here you're accepting my award damn it very truthfully it's all community camaraderie that makes all that successful and you brought it all together and I appreciate your attention to some of those things That's very nice of you. Thank you, Zach. Got to go out with a bang, man. Got to go out with a bang. Ooh, unfortunately, going out with a bang as well. Trending down this week is... Sorry, I don't know why there's a fart after all that nice stuff. But that's what this show is. Trending down this week is pinball media in general. Oh, look. Such times that we are facing hindered media content in general, as well as just podcasts in general, But, damn it, we live in pinball. We love pinball. And not as much content to go around right now to share. That's why you've got to always rely on who you are and the entertainment that you bring. In addition, it's also turning down because we're losing Ken Cromwell. So turning down this week is just pinball media in general. And I will say right now I'm relying, I'm hoping. We started with five founders of the pinball network, and damn it, we're down to me and my little cowboy, Crystal. Some would say that fate is playing out there, Zach. I think it was all about you and Dennis at the top of the hill, as pinball warlords as Ryan C. would say. Sounds like I'm getting a memo. Dennis Quist! And I haven't forgot about you, Crystal. No, I haven't forgot about you. You know, in the wonderfully soulful words of Bill Withers, Lean on me when you're not strong. When I'll be your friend. Please don't let God help you carry your own. For it won't be long till I'm lonely. I need somebody to lean on. You know what's going to be nice? Is that now I will be able to go back to kind of how it was when I used to listen to your other podcast. And I can just kind of listen to you and Dennis and a Pinball Cop podcast again. I miss being able to do that without kind of being on the inside of the podcast. Does that make sense? Yeah. So in that aspect, man, I am looking forward to hearing you guys again. It's going to be fun. Man, I'm not sure. How it all started, man. It doesn't call home to love when you need a co-host. We all need somebody to lean on. Creasel's probably not up to it, but damn it, we'll go down with the fights. I disagree. It's going to be fun. It's what the people expect. It's what they want, and there it is. It's what we enjoy. Okay, let's end this little segment by giving you guys this week's Pinball Show Presents Pinball Market Trends Deal of the Week. Bye, bye, bye. You're getting a little forceful there. Kind of hurt my larynx on that one. Don't get a podcasting injury. That would be bad if you had like an injured vocal cord or something. Yeah, business is already going down everywhere else. This is my last fight. Oh, wait a minute. I don't make any money off of this. Well, that's right. I feel like I'm hitting puberty or draining down this week. Right. It's lotion, Mom, and that's soft. It's not. Speaking of teenagers, this is a little side content here. But I did something either admirable or dickish this last week, listener. And, Ken, you tell me which one it is, this or that. Dickish. It's dickish. I can already tell. I can already tell. Look, my son is 14. You know this. You have a 14-year-old son, right, Chromie? Yeah. They can be trying, to say the least. To say the least. So now he's got his schedule, his sleep schedule, all mixed up where he's staying up all throughout the night playing his Fortnite or playing his Overwatch or whatever the hell he's doing up there. I don't want to know. But he's slacking. He's not being around the family as much. So to impart some wisdom, I forced him to do a writing assignment, an essay or dissertation, if you will, on a movie review. Now, is that dickish or admirable? He's mad. He's angry. Yeah, it's probably dickish. The guy's on spring break. He's doing his own thing to cope with what's happening. How long is spring break going to last? Hey, it's spring break right now. I mean, isn't it? I think it is. and he's doing what he can to kind of get by, and you're forcing movie reviews. Now, what was the movie that you asked him to review? Okay. Because if it was something like – This is where I'm going to make you feel bad. Okay. Oh, no. I watched this film the other night, haven't seen it in a long time, cried throughout, gritted my teeth throughout, smiled, laughed. Skinamax? Every – well, Skinamax. He watched enough of that, probably. No, it was Men of Honor. Okay. Men of Honor. I wanted him. There's some poignancy in that film. Not the greatest reviewed film, but one of my favorites because there's so much you can take away from that film. Triumph, adversity, race, war, conflict, being a man, growing up, loss, trauma. What was your endgame with this, though? Why ask him to review that movie? Are you just trying to let him put things in perspective and find a hidden part of himself that he didn't know existed and then be able to capitalize on you opening up his eyes where he becomes triumphant and leaves the house outside of a global pandemic? Like, what was going on here? Damn it, you're in my mind. Yeah, I feel like kids nowadays, they are brought up on so much cynicism, and they think that cynicism equals entertainment and success, that I want to just kind of nip that, nip it as much as I can. And so I just thought it would be a good exercise for him to watch this film and answer a series of, I don't know, 16 essay questions as to, you know, what he could gain from experiencing something like this. Did he do it? Did he watch the movie? As we speak, he's up there right now. He was throwing stuff angry. He's a stupid man. He's up there right now like pouring out some wild turkey. He's like, poor kid. You want me to love you more? I hate you more, Dad. Oh, no. No. I don't know. I'd be curious to see what he comes up with and if he actually, I assume he's going to do the report. I don't know if there's a deadline, but if it's by next week, I'd like to hear his takeaway. Basically, you know, if he wants to continue with the privilege that he has been granted as my son and having all the resources he wants, living in America, living as a white male, he's got everything that he would ever want. He is not. The only thing that's been hard on him in his whole life is stubbing his f***ing toe. So I want him to learn about privilege. I just think it'll be good for him. And we'll have a discussion. Yeah, okay. I don't know why it took this turn, but, you know, whatever. Pinball market trends. Hey, does it really make a difference? A real admirable dad. It's this side banter that I personally don't mind in a pinball podcast. Let's learn not more about my public life, but a little pinball market trends deal of the week here. right out of Ministrida. Ministrida? Minnesota? Ministrida. Ministrida, Minnesota. What's Ministrida? I don't even know what that means. It's a Ministrida. It's got a lot of carbs. It's a city. It's a city right outside of Minneapolis, Minnesota. It depends on the name of Vitty. How much was that? About three Vitty. He's got a Willy Wonka and a Chocolate Factory Collector's Edition. You know how beautiful this pinball machine is, listener. Oh, Ken, do you not drool when you look at this collector's edition of Willy Wonka? It's the best-looking edition, in my opinion. Damn. For sure. Oh, objectively, one of the most beautiful pinball machines ever made. This is number 50. Nice even number there. Number 50, like new condition. He purchased it at the end of December 2019. No play field issues. He's even got the Penn Stadium old Mac Janos Kiss on there. A little mod couple 3D Wonka factory. It's only got 154 plays. Price, new, $12,500 plus shipping. But the deal of the week, he's got this thing at $11,000. Buy, buy, buy! Wow. So I bet if you told him $10,500 cash, he would take it. He's also up for local pickup, or he's willing to blanket wrap it for shipment. He's also looking for some trades. I just think this is a general good old deal of the week. and our other ooh another deal of the week here is by oh Z-Many from Flip N Out Pinball and it's a little Vienna how about that uh let's see a uh U-Stern Stranger Things Pro okay what's so special ooh UV Kid already installed $1,100 UV Kid nice ooh low plays wow save save save and bye bye bye bye bye bye absolutely sorry for your ears there Kenny and our last deal of the week is ooh a Batman 66 LE they don't come up very often, but this one's in Alpharetta, Georgia by J.W. Ney. And you can purchase this one. This is the lowest one I've seen in quite some time. It's the number 113. Limited edition. Batman 66. Home use only by Sharon Pinball. $8,800. Buy, buy, buy! Yeah, that's fair. These things typically sell for about $10,000. $8,800. Just think about the topper, people. That topper. You can't buy it. That topper is gorgeous. So the LE came with the topper? I thought only the Super LE came with the topper. Nope, the LE and the Super LE both came with that topper. Didn't realize that. $8,800, he did say it's firm. Rub me wrong there, J. Dubnay. Offer him 85 cash, he'll take it. Yeah, whenever I see firm, like it's, I understand you don't want to get lowballed, but when you say firm, it almost makes some people want to see how firm you are. You know what happens when something's firm? It softens up a little bit Sure If it 8 firm and I say all right how about 8 I mean if you that firm that on an purchase would skew you the opposite direction That's pretty firm. I don't know. Bill Webb would be like, it's integrity, you son of a bitch. That's true, though. That's true. And that's... If I say firm, I mean firm. Right, right. But I mean, firm is always like, eh. All the webs have principle. Buy, buy, buy! Right. I would always just kind of say, like, I feel that I've priced this extremely fair. And then that's kind of it. It's my way of saying firm. And that was Pinball Market Tricks. That was very somber on the way out. Yeah. When I was first starting the segment on this week in pinball, it started out very much non-used car salesman, like a new car salesman. Hey, it is what it is. Here's the warranty. Okay, I'll go talk to the manager. But, yeah, so I'm going to end it on that. But it's not going away, Disgraceful. Here to stay. deals to be had all over the place you know what i'm noticing is like right now one of the things i'm missing most in my life just to kind of pass time sports baseball for me i'm such a huge mlb baseball yeah i know you like that baseball yeah 162 games i'm a big cubs fan i know at any time i mean within reason on every single day there's a game that i can catch somewhere in the major leagues and it's it's not there anymore and it kills me and for a lot of people the most exciting time of the year is like March Madness and your tournament brackets. What we've seen recently now in a creative approach to kind of simulate a sports tournament bracket was something that Stern Pinball has shared with everybody. Do you want to get into that a little bit? Stern Pinball announced, first they teased it, and then the next day they came out with it. But I think it is a great marketing move, and it's a lot of fun. There was a bracket of Stern Pinball machines to figure out which one the greatest is of all times. And fans of Stern Pinball and pinball in general can submit their brackets to Stern Pinball. And I think there's prizes and stuff that are going to be given away and revealed. So it's a lot of fun. So I figured what better than to see what Chromie's picks are and my picks are and what we are going to call the pinball shows. Stern Showdown! So I don't mind doing this. I'll be honest. I'm not a fan of this type of thing. I know you hate it. That's why I wanted to do it. What a way for me to go out is to do a segment that usually deserves the hell out of me. And that is because this is what I always think. Do you know it? I mean, go on. Who cares what I think is the, but for the sake of conversation and for the sake of legitimately not much going on, I guess it makes sense to do it. But the only thing that I would ask is how many games are on? How many are in this tournament bracket? We'll get through it. Stop. Stop worrying about it. Can we just get through it? You ready to jump in? I don't want to spend 15, 20 minutes on this. No, we're going to spend an hour and a half. It'll be fine. All right. First bracket set up. The matchup is Lord of the Rings or Mustang. Kim? Lord of the Rings. Boom. I'm going Lord of the Rings as well. Guardians of the Galaxy or Batman 66? Oh, I don't have much time on Guardians of the Galaxy. and I have a little bit more time on Batman 66. I would say if I had to have one in my house, it would be Batman 66. Ooh, he's going Batman 66, ladies and gentlemen. I'm going to go for the underdog in Guardians there. I enjoy it more. Guardians, okay. Yeah, shout out to Borky. Game of Thrones or KISS? I am a Game of Thrones pro fan, not premium, and KISS is a miss for me on theme, although I think it's a great shooter and the codes come along, but I'm going to have to go Gott. Oh, he's getting Gott on that one. I'm getting not. Give me Borgi's Key. Ooh, look at this. I enjoy more. It's an upset pick there in the mid-bracket. Also, we have Family Guy or The Walking Dead. Now, I will say Family Guy is a crap pin, but The Walking Dead, it was really unfair, I think, of Stern, of the Stern League here to put Lord of the Rings and Walking Dead in the same bracket. Not very cool, bros. It's tough. Hey, it's how it plays out, though. You know, sometimes. So you're going Walking Dead there, right? I'm going Walking Dead for sure. And I'm sure you are. Right. Yeah, put it at a number two seed. I don't appreciate that, Stern. Back up to the number one seed in the East Division, Jurassic Park or World Wrestling Entertainment, WWE? After absolutely no consideration on this, it's Jurassic Park. X-Men or Elvira House of Horrors? E-Ho. Okay, E-Ho for me, too. Iron Man or Stranger Things? Stranger Things. Now, I'm completely biased on Stranger Things because of the theme, but I legitimately would prefer to play Stranger Things than Iron Man, and that's not saying that Iron Man's not a good shooter, a good player. No, these are our preferences. Yeah, sure. And objectively, Stranger Things is actually a better game. Oh, Ripley's Believe It or Not, I can believe it, or Metallica. I'm going to go Ripley's Believe It or Not. Ripley's. I can't believe it. With the upset over Metallica. What about you? I'm going to go Metallica on that one. It's tried and true. It was like my weird eight seed that came out of nowhere that just took down a juggernaut with Ripley's Believe It or Not. Yeah. F***ing Wichita State. Every year. Yeah, right, exactly. ACDC or Transformers? I'm sorry, what was that? ACDC or Transformers? Absolutely ACDC for me. I'll go ACDC because of the music. I will go ACDC because of the music, and I love the artwork, man, on ACDC. When I say artwork, I mean the Lucy cat. I like that edition. Yeah, I might actually prefer shooting Transformers a little more. I don't know. Well, you are recently coming off of a Transformers 2 where you're like, no, this game has more than meets the eye, I think is what we said last time. Oh, wow. Okay. God, I'm going to miss you. The Beatles or Star Trek. This is really tough. It's a tough eight and nines deed here. That's like which uncle do you prefer almost, where it's not as close to your heart. Shout out to Zach Sharp on this one. Yeah. The Beatles and Star Trek. They're so fun in their own right. But I'm thinking to myself, if I could only own one and I could never own the other, I would go Beatles. Wow. Wow. Is that crazy or is that crazy? Upset and double shocked that I'll go Beatles as well. Really? Hey, there we go. See, now, and who would have thought when that game came out that we'd be discussing it taking down a Star Trek. Arguably one of the greatest Thern pinball machines of all time and the greatest repeatable shot in pinball. Yes. Wow. Wow. This next one, next one's a little Spider-Man or the Munsters? I'm going to go. Oh, geez. I'm going to go Munsters. Whoa. I'm going to go Munsters over Spider-Man. That's an upset. It is an upset on that. Now, some of you are going to say, well, you said Munsters because you're friends with Dwight Sullivan. Yeah, that's what a lot of them said. I heard them. Maybe that played into it. I'll tell you what, Spider-Man doesn't call me in. Artwork and music and animations and stuff, I'm going to go Munsters. I'm going to go with the more modern-day pinball machine on that one. What about you? Boy, I don't want either one of them. I'm not the fondest of either one of them. Monsters checks every box except for one. Spider-Man doesn't check as many boxes. It's such a good shooter on Monsters, though. Mm-hmm. Having said that, give me Spider-Man. Really? I mean, that's fair. It's fair enough. Would you go Spider-Man or Spider-Man Vault? Oh, God. The call-outs in the vault are pretty atrocious, but the artwork on the original doesn't hold a flame to the comic. I'll take the comic just because it's pretty, and I'm not going to play that game either way. Yep. On to the next one. We got the Simpsons Pinball Party or Pirates of the Caribbean. You're going to think I'm weird here, and I'm going to pick Simpsons Pinball Party over Pirates of the Caribbean. Why is that weird? Because I am not as heavy into Simpsons Pinball Party as most other people, and I'm missing something. And it seems like that game is everything that pinball is supposed to be. But I think because I was more of a South Park fan than I ever was a Simpsons fan, that the theme itself was lost on me, and that's the power of a theme. Because if I think that if that was South Park themed, that might have been one of the most unbelievable games that I probably ever played. So just kind of strange that way. So you're going Pirates there? No, no, no. I'm going to go Simpsons. I'm going to go with Team. We just argued the point of why. DPSS. Okay. Well, no, because I'm taking it because it's a heavy favorite, but it's not a heavy favorite for me personally in pinball grand scheme of things. So you might see TPSS, the pinball Simpsons, or pinball, Simpsons Pinball Party, T-S-P-P, not survive the next round. Talk about spitting in your mic. Man, see, I'm getting rusty. Either one of those is going to get knocked off. I don't think Simpsons Pinball Party deserves the number two seed spot here. But, you know, whatever, Sharp, I'll let you have that one. I'm going to go, it doesn't matter, for Ted here, let's just go Simpsons. Okay. On to the South Division, we've got, ooh, a number one seeded Deadpool. Interesting they chose that. They're over Walking Dead and the Two Sheets, whatever. Deadpool or Avengers? Oh, absolutely Deadpool. Deadpool with me as well, but you've got to have the premium LE. Tron or Black Knight Sword of Rage? Are you ready for it? Are you ready for it? Black Knight Sword of Rage. Whoa. I never was able to get into Tron. I don't know why. I never, I would, if someone said, you can have a Tron right now, and I'm not talking about value if you wanted to flip or resell or any of that, but you had to play a Tron for the next 12 months solely or a Black Knight Sword of Rage. Believe it, man, I would go with Black Knight Sword of Rage. Pro, premium, LE, which one are you going with? I would go Black Knight Sword of Rage premium. Or premium LE, same thing. Okay. You know, some people aren't a big fan of that upper play field, But, I mean, that upper plate field is serviceable for me. And, you know, I also want to say that as we're going through these picks, these are just my personal picks, not as somebody that's this single expert reviewer on what I would suggest to every single other person. This is my personal preference. So as trivial as it may be, you cannot argue with somebody's personal opinion, and that's where I'm stating my claim here. I would fill this sheet out differently if I was doing objectivity. But I'm going to say you were smoking crack on that last one. I'm going strong. Yeah, try it. Okay, okay. Fair enough. Up on the next one, one of my favorites, Ghostbusters, or one of my favorites, Star Wars. Now, Zach Sharp, you dick. Ghostbusters or Star Wars? Those are two single-handedly, two of my favorite top five sterns of all time, and he's going to put them together. We're going to call this an 8-9 seed. Jeez. They're both Dwight Sullivan code games, too. Between the two, though, I would go Ghostbusters. This one, I'm going to spare anyone from having me to think about, so I'm not going to think about it because I'd be here all day. They're both my children. Give me Ghostbusters. Yep, me too. Pro. And I really do like Star Wars. Yeah, I'm a premium on Ghostbusters. All right, last one, Aerosmith or Iron Maiden? I would go Iron Maiden, and it's because of the ingenuity of that playfield design. which is a little bit different than what I'm kind of typically used to with like a John Borg type of a design. What about you? Yeah, it's music pins matched up against one another. One has the better music. One has the better game. I'm going Iron Maiden. Wow, okay. There we go. Back up to the top of our brackets. Ken, are you going Lord of the Rings or Batman 66? Lord of the Rings. Now, for me, it's on that same bracket. It's Lord of the Rings or Guardians of the Galaxy. I'm going Lord of the Rings. Okay. So we drop down. We now have the decision for you, Ken. Game of Thrones or The Walking Dead? I am going to go The Walking Dead over Game of Thrones. Okay. And for me, the decision is Kiss or The Walking Dead. I'm going to go The Walking Dead. Dropping down to the West Bracket, we're going to go, for you, the choice is Jurassic Park or Elvira House of Whores. And it's the same decision I have to make. Man, and it's a hard decision because trending for me lately has been Elvira's House of Horrors, and it's been because it's been removed from my ability to play. I've been craving it more. That's tough. It's very, very tough. People should know that that's a tough one. It's a tough one, and I feel like regardless of what I pick here, there's a strong argument that could be made that I'm making the wrong pick. and it's hard too because Jurassic Park code wise is so much more evolved than Elvira is so I would say as is I would have to go Jurassic Park over Eho right now and I feel almost like it's hard to say wasn't it it really really is and I'm really curious to see because I know how passionate you are with at least one of these games I'm not going to say which one I think you would pick Listeners, this weekend I did just pick up a Jurassic Park LE, just saying. Mm-hmm. That's right. But which one am I playing now? Which one do I prefer today? If you're asking me to fill out this bracket today. No, no, no. Which one are you, as is, which one of these games, if it was the only machine that you could have in your house for the next year? Oh, Ken. And that's how you have to look at it for me. I mean. It's tough for me because I just got the Jurassic Park in. I've been playing a lot of Elvira. There's got to be consequence to your decision. Okay, here's the last question, then I'll pick. Okay. Is it code as is, or likely where code will go? Nope. It's right now as the game stands. Like, you will not get a code update on either of these pins. It's right now. So a 1.0 code versus a .9-something code. Mm-hmm. And that's what weighed heavily into my decision. I feel more pulled in with Elvira. Give me Elvira. Yeah, fair enough, too. Where Elvira calls to me more. Games that are kind of difficult, they have a depth of code, and they pull me in for some reason. For some reason, Elvira pulls me in, even though Jurassic Park is the damn nicest theme out there. I don't know why. Today I'm picking Elvira. Again, it was play field, and it was the amount of shots on Jurassic Park, a little added level of complexity of those shots on Jurassic Park, the unique modes and different ways in which you can start games on Jurassic Park. I think both games are great for me, but again, as is right now, if I had to pick one, it would be Jurassic Park. I think that was the most difficult decision for me so far. Let's end it here, Zach. Let's call it a day. Your next pick has to be between Stranger Things and Ripley's Believe It or Not. Stranger Things. Oh, he didn't believe it. He's going Stranger Things. For me, the decision is now Stranger Things or Metallica. People are going to throw tomatoes Yeah they will They're going to throw tomatoes I know what you got Show me what you got I've enjoyed Stranger Things more today than I have of any time I've ever played or owned Metallica Give me Stranger Things for the upset Awesome Back to the top of our East Bracket Can you have to decide ACDC or Beatles? The same thing I have to decide ACDC or Beatles The two music pins, going at it. Yep. Great pins. Richie and going. But I am going Beatles on this. Holy moly. Because the replayability for me on both of these pins, like, I could see me, and I've had both of these pins, like, going back to Beatles time and time again. Beatles into the Elite Eight for both of us. Put me down for Beatles as well. Good. I like that. Beatles got hot right in the tournament time. Yep. I get lost in the code of ACDC and Beatles. That code is perfection with the level system and that ripping. Now, when that game had come out, people would have thought it would have ended up in the NIT tournament and not the NCAA tournament. And now here it is advancing on in the NCAA of Sternenbaum. Absolutely. We're going to shift our attention down. Can I tell you something really quick? I'm actually having more fun with this segment than I originally had anticipated doing it. Thank God. So thanks, man. See, you just try things. You don't just judge something. Without playing it, I'm enjoying this game as I get more time on it, Zach. I still don't like Brussels sprouts. Ken, your next decision on the Stern Showdown Bracket 2020 is Munsters Pinball or the Simpsons Pinball Party? I would go Simpsons Pinball Party over Munsters. Okay. How about you, Liam? My decision is between Spider-Man or the Simpsons Pinball Party. I'm picking Dahl all day long. Yep. No surprises there. Continuing in the North Division, our decision. Are yours is Deadpool or Black Knight Sword of Rage? Hmm. I'm going to go Deadpool. Although, again, I thoroughly enjoy it. And I don't feel bad making these picks. You know why I don't feel bad picking these games over other games? Because Stern is asking us to do this. So, you know what? I'm going Black Knight Sword of Rage is leaving the tournament right now. I figured this was the last time I was going to be able to get you to talk about Sturm. It probably is. Assuming I'm not fired by Christmas, I should not be discussing pinball manufacturers as publicly as I might be used to. We've always been fair on our takes, so that's okay. God, I want a Jersey Jack pinball t-shirt that says, Fired by Christmas, Ken Cromwell. That's right. Well, trending up next week. I need to decide between Deadpool and Tron. This is not an easy decision. Really? Deadpool or Tron. See, now, you started off not riding the Deadpool train, but the game grew on you over time. And I think you had more of an appreciation. Was it like the second time you kind of got in on a Deadpool, or was it just after the code? You know what changed that game was when Tanyo Klyce allowed stacking of the modes. For me, that changed how that whole game played. But I was enjoying it prior to that also. For me, it was when we took in a premium on trade and just seeing the different mechanics that were used. I was separated by the code for probably over half a year or so. I picked up new code and new mechanical features that I think play so well into the premium LE version. That's why I fell in love with Deadpool again. Now, I do love Tron. Tron's simplicity and beauty maybe puts it over the top here for me. Oh, Tron or Deadpool. It's a buzzer beater right here. The clock's ticking down. You're right outside three-point range. You're trailing by two. God, give me Tron. Oh, my gosh. You've got to be kidding me. Tron advanced. Wow. That was tough. I'm very shocked. So right now, you would rather play Tron as is for the next year instead of playing Deadpool Premium as is for the next year. You'd rather have Tron. I just want to make sure that we're on the same page on the consequences. I mean, there's no horrible consequences here. You're playing one of two great games. And I'm not trying to sell you either way. I think so. You think Deadpool might be a little deeper than Tron, though? A lot deeper than Tron. And it looks better. Yeah, I said it. The artwork on Tron is just, it doesn't make up for those Ellie Lightcycle wraparound ramp things. The artwork on Tron is better than the artwork on Deadpool? No, I'm saying Deadpool is more beautiful even with those. There's nothing like ripping the disco loop spinner. Oh, damn it, Tim. And have it feed to the flipper and just get that going sequentially. And then one of my favorite multiballs in all of pinball is mech suit multiball. I just love it, man. And I love hearing Jerry Thompson's voice throughout that game. I'm still chasing the final wizard mode on Tron. The Zen shot, or I think it's the Zen shot, or the gym shot is just spectacular. I love the EL wire ramps, the fluorescence you can put in those. Yeah, I'm going to go Tron, but that might have been a mistake. No, no, there's no mistakes here, man. Yeah, there is. All right. Our next decision is one of the same. It is Ghostbusters or Iron Maiden. So for me personally, I'm going to probably surprise people, but I'm going to go Ghostbusters here. Yes, it's true. This man has no dick. I'm going Ghostbusters as well. Are you really? So you know what's funny is sometimes I think we probably get, we are questioned on our true feelings on some of these games. But here we are, a lot of what we're picking is similar. and a lot of the controversial picks, we're both on the same page. No wonder we get along. Yeah, see? Yeah, I like it. You've got to cue the You've Got a Friend in Me music here. You've got a friend in me. You've got a friend in me. Randy Newman. With the gold and the bread in your mouth. That's such an odd. You've got a friend in me. You've got a friend in me. Yes, but I like it. You can remember what your old pal said, because you've got a friend of me. Let's see what gets to the final four in here, the Stern Showdown. Man, I love it. The decision that we both have to make is one that will shape history from here on out. It is what I have said in the past as number 1A and 1B of Stern's greatest pinball machines ever made. I said that publicly, and then all these cool games came out. But it is this. Lord of the Rings, designed by George Gomez. Yes. Keith P. Johnson on code. Yes. Or do we go The Walking Dead, arguably Lime and Sheet's masterpiece code, and John Borg's most beautiful, wonderful, fun, brutal layout. Yes. Lord of the Rings or The Walking Dead. This is one when I'm filling out the NCAA bracket, and I skip it until the end. Yeah, and it's hard because you can see either of these advancing, and it's really who's going to show up to play on that day. It's going to be close. I almost want to let you take lead here. Okay. I know what my pick is. That's fair. And I'm not going to be influenced by what you're going to pick, but since I kind of let in leading up to the final four, I think we'll transition here for a little bit. And then for maybe like the final, we'll both say our winner at the same time. Okay. I like it. I like it. Sounds good. Okay. For me, my thought processes on this is which one do I enjoy more? Which one do I want to see in my game collection? If it's a single pin, which one do I play all year long? I don't like the looks of any and would love to see both redone with a better art package. Fair enough. I would love to see Lord of the Rings get the beauty of an LCD screen and those film clips like The Hobbit did with Jersey Jack Pinball more than anything. Right. I think some of the moments in Lord of the Rings, you can't pass them up. Layout-wise, The Walking Dead is a brutal monster. Lord of the Rings is a long ball-time player. Uh-huh. For me, theme, Lord of the Rings is going to have the edge because it's just, it's never forgettable. The Walking Dead is now cruising down the hill. So does theme really ring a bell on The Walking Dead in years to come as much as it does Lord of the Rings? What are you, fools? Yes. Theme's already played a vital role in a decision I made prior, so I can understand the importance of theme. This is two of the greatest codes that Stern has ever produced. This is Battle of the Coders right here. No offense to Borg or Gomi, but damn it, Ken, This is Keith P. Johnson's masterpiece and Lyman's masterpiece up against one another. This is ridiculous. Give me Coral, The Walking Dead. Give me The Walking Dead. The code is just so addictive. So addictive. How do you, I mean, does it feel good to get that off your chest, or do you feel uneasy about the decision? I feel like I just cheated on my wife. It does not feel good at all. Oh, man. And the thing with getting the Valinor and Lord of the Rings, it's like one of those things that nobody gets to Valinor, right, on Lord of the Rings. It's like that elusive, deep, deep, deep code. I'm going opposite. I'm going Lord of the Rings on this. I can't argue. And for me, I think theme has heavily influenced me because where Walking Dead is great, Lord of the Rings is just iconic. And I agree with a lot of what you said in the comparison. So there's no loser here. I kind of cheated there because coming off my bench was Cleveland. So I had a little help. And I could arguably say that I had pin sound that I just recently installed in Lord of the Rings that brings this game to super life. You had Wooly on your bench there, didn't you? Yes, I did. How funny is that? Like weighing in our decisions for Stern's best game are two aftermarket mods in the Cleveland sound ROM and then the pin sound wooly mix. I mean, that is hilarious. I like it, though. Progressing into the final four is Walking Dead for myself and Lord of the Rings for Ken Cromwell. So we're split there. Let's see who else will find their way into the prestigious final four of the Stern Showdown. We're going to go. The decision you have to make, Cromwell, is Jurassic Park, designed by Keith Elwin, Jerry Thompson on sound. Oh, baby. Yes. Are you going to go Stranger Things, your, you've publicly said it, your dream theme? That's your decision. My decision has to be between Elvira House of Horrors with the upset over Jurassic Park, Elvira or Stranger Things. Man, so you've got Elvira or Stranger Things. I've got Jurassic Park versus Stranger Things. Yeah, objectively, Elvira House of Horrors is a better game. Objectively. but we're not talking about objectivity here i'm not filling out my spreadsheet based on facts right i'm filling out my bracket based on me heart and me heart says stranger things is the one that single-handedly you have played the most of since it came into your basement you son of a bitch you better go with what your heart tells you in stranger things wow so stranger thing Vinyl 4. Advances over Elvira's House of Horrors. That's a tough decision to make. It is. I think I might have even asked you that exact question maybe last week or the week prior. Stranger Things or Elvira's House of Horrors right now. I like where Elvira's Code is going. Look for Stranger Things is trending for you amongst all of Stern's best titles of all time. Yeah, and Ken, you know I'm going to get some shit for it. I'm going to get some shit for that pick because people are going to say, You guys, your sheer shill, your inventory. Ken Cromwell, you know how honest, everybody knows how honest you are. Tell them, I stand behind that pen, don't I? Yes, and I will say this. My reputation, for whatever it is, if I thought for certain or even was curious that he might be Win Schilling, I would have just as much fun poking at him about it as everybody else likes to do. I promise you this. I have conversations with this guy off of the mics exponentially more than we do when we're on here and never once have we had a private conversation in regards to opinions of a pinball machine that he hadn't exactly expressed in the way that he had done privately on the podcast I love that game I know for a fact how heavily in the stranger things that you are and look you gotta tweak it, I'm here to tell you you're probably gonna have to tweak your game hell I'm still tweaking mine, I get it But it's that good. It's just that good to me. Yep, yep. I enjoy Stranger Things a lot, too, and theme is huge for me on Stranger Things. I've got to bring this up against Jurassic Park. Ooh. I questioned. Titans when it comes to theme. Titans. Back in the day, back in the old days of the Special Inlet Pinball Podcast, I remember having this conversation with Bill Webb and I said Is Jurassic Park the greatest stern pinball machine of all time And we really went back and forth on it and there was no definitive answer where I think Jurassic Park may be the best Stern pinball machine of all time. Maybe. Stranger Things is such a fun shooter. It's a Brian Eddy game. Oh, no, Ken. It's my dream theme. Oh, no. The audio package as is, I think, is outstanding, and the code is still advancing as we are under .90. So for this round, I am going to have to go with Jurassic Park. I got to go Jurassic Park right now. Okay. And I tip my hat to both of these teams that are involved in these games. I would not be disappointed to have either one of these games in my collection for the next year. But right now, as is, code is the decider for me. And with Jurassic Park being advanced, and I don't have to say this every time I pick Jurassic Park, it's Jurassic Park for me right now. And it's a hard decision because I'd be sad to not play Stranger Things. In my game room, I have three Sternellis all pretty in a row beside each other, and they're Jurassic Park, Elvira, and Stranger Things. Yeah, that's a great collection, man. Great collection. Onward to the East Division semifinals, which one advances to the Final Four? Or both of our decisions will have to be between Beatles or Simpsons Pinball Party. Well, now, see, now, a lot of people would look at this and be like, why is this? Why is there even any thought behind this? Some people said, why is Beatles even in this bracket? Exactly, right? Like, this is the Cinderella story. And the one thing I realized about a Cinderella story is that a Cinderella story does not always have, like, a fairy tale ending. It just doesn't, right? It's a Cinderella story. It's going to hurt in the hole. Does Beatles continue to knock off teens, or do they come up against a Duke University or Kansas at this point, and do they bow out and say that it was a good run, guys? Let's come back and get them next year. Valparaiso, baby. Valparaiso. Here's what I think. I think that you have the Simpsons pinball party, which is one of the deepest rule sets ever seen in a Stern pinball machine. Yes. However, it's a bit dated now. Simpsons, the theme is not as prevalent. And if we're talking shooters, I know which one I'd rather shoot when I'm talking flow, when I'm talking smoothness. And for me, Beatles pinball is the greatest stern pinball machine ever made to play with others. Give me Beatles in the final four. Yep. And I'm going to agree with you 100%. I'm going to take what some would perceive as the upset. I would take Beatles. Again, this is just our personal opinions. Yeah. And to me, it's not an upset, Ken. No, it's not. This isn't something that I had to think hard about when I saw it come up in the bracket. I already knew that I was going to take Beatles. My biggest concern on picking Beatles was not that I couldn't play the Simpsons pinball party, but it was the potential public outlash that I will receive for picking Beatles over the Simpsons pinball party. But I stand by the decision that Dark Horse continues to roll on, and I love it. We didn't put these brackets together. We're just answering the questions. You know what? You could take chalk all day. It is what it is, and maybe that's what makes it fun. I'm really thinking it from fun factor. It is fun. Okay, last Final Four spot. We've got one spot left in our Final Four. For me, it's the decision between Tron or Ghostbusters. for you it's the decision between Deadpool and Ghostbusters one that I know you will not take lightly two of your favorite sterns ever made yep absolutely for me this is no question hell it's not even close it's Ghostbusters okay so Ghostbusters over Tron yes not no hesitation Ghostbusters yeah that makes sense and uh only if it's a pro Ghostbusters pro over Tron now so When I think of this, and I'm not going to deep dive this decision because it is what it is, both pins are real special for me, and especially Ghostbusters was, I think, the first Stern pinball machine that, well, it was my first pin box. It was your first new one, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and it was a premium, and it was, like, the first time where I was just like, man, this is pretty crazy. But all that being said, I'm going to go Deadpool. Wow. Because it is that fun to me. If somebody said you could have Deadpool or Ghostbusters right now, I would take the Deadpool. And that's just... That says a lot. You know what I think it is? That says a lot. The Deadpool shots are more satisfying for me than some of the Ghostbusters shots. I can definitely see that. But the audio packages on both are killer. But I really feel like it's just a fun party pin when I'm playing Deadpool. So, yeah. Let's look at, as we're entering in, Zach and Cromwell's Stern Showdown 2020. Let's take a closer look in the final four for Ken Cromwell. Let's see how these final fours match up, because I'm curious to see if we have the same. Yeah, interestingly enough, of the two entrants, only one pin has been decided by both. Up in the east round, it's the Beatles. Both are agreeable that the Beatles belongs in the top four. However, all three other categories are different. Ken is going Lord of the Rings. Zach's going The Walking Dead. Ken's going Jurassic Park. Zach is going Stranger Things. Wow. Ken is going Deadpool. Zach is going Ghostbusters. Wow, interesting. Mm-hmm. So combined, our top, what is that, seven pins of Stern all time, and not in any particular order, Beatles, Lord of the Rings, Walking Dead, Jurassic Park, Stranger Things, Deadpool, and Ghostbusters. Yep. So that would be like a seven-pin collection of freaking all-time. Put it in the bank. Yep. Absolutely. Yep. Whew. Now, you know what? I might be in agreement with you that those seven pins between us, I think, might be the seven best pins the Sterns made. I think we did a good job. I think we did, too. And I think some people will question Stranger Things busting in a top seven because, again, it's still early. And the jury's still out on that game for some people. Yep. But I think, rightfully so, for me, from a fun factor, it deserves a top ten spot. So, no, I like it. I'm happy with this. Let's see which ones are going to go to the final countdown. Ken, I'm going to let you answer. To enter into the championship game, Lord of the Rings or Jurassic Park? That is a tough decision. I was just going to say, this is right now the toughest decision for me to make since we've been kind of going through the tournament brackets. Both games, we discussed why we like both on several different occasions. I'm not going to rehash that. If I could keep one of those games right now. One's a lot prettier. I know. One's got an LCD screen. It's modern greatness versus, like, heart of pinball greatness. Yeah. The classic versus the new king. I am. This is f***ed, man. Yeah, Lord of the Rings or Jurassic Park. After, and for those that are listening to this. It's been the deliberation. Right, exactly. It's been shortened for the sake of everybody's sanity because I really had to think long and hard about this. And really, it was like the Ben Franklin close for me. It was a list of pros versus a list of cons and see which weighed out the other, you know, one way or the other. and I think that I really have to go on this one. Oh, no. I don't even know which one you're going here. I'm going to go Lord of the Rings on this. Oh, my gosh. What did I do? What did I just do? What did I do? Lord of the Rings. And I am such a big fan of modern-day pinball, what's happening with all these pinball companies. Lord of the Rings is one of those games from that DMD era, and because we're talking Skern, that super long ball time. It's got more moments. It does, and that's what it comes down for me is in-ball moments. When I'm playing Jurassic Park, as fun as it is, and as flowy as it can be with the occasional stop and go, and there are moments in there. There are not some of the more impressionable moments that recapture the theme. like Lord of the Rings does versus what Jurassic Park was able to do theme-wise under their licensing restrictions. You know what I realized? Three of your final four, Ken Cromwell, were all designed by George Gomez. And this is something that I'm realizing now also, because when I think in my head of who my favorite designers are, I don't know that George Gomez immediately jumps out in the forefront for me as being like my favorite designer of all time. It's a scotch. It's amazing. You grow to appreciate it more than anything you've ever drank. But on first sip, you think, eh. There he is. There's always something different and quirky about a Gomez design that at first glance you're not particularly sold on, but it grows on you and it works for me. If we're looking at my final four, sorry to go back here. My final four all showcase four different designers and four different coders. Wow. Yeah, a little variety. So you're a little bit more pinball diverse than I am. I've got some hidden bias. All four of mine are different artists, too. I have none of the same team. Interesting. Interesting. So he's going Lord of the Rings. So, yeah, I'm going Lord of the Rings. Over Jurassic Park. 2003 called. They want their pinball machine back in. Yeah, no kidding, right? Here we go, 15, 20 years later. Okay. I've got to make a decision which one makes it to the finals. The Walking Dead or Stranger Things. I wonder how I put Stranger Things in the top four. All right. Let's see here. You got some pressure on you to lean one way in this, and I'm really curious to see. It's just interesting. I've owned The Walking Dead, all models, multiple times. It's one of your favorite pins ever. One of my favorite pins ever. Stranger Things is still here, though. whereas The Walking Dead's not. Now, collectively, I've owned The Walking Dead pinball machine in general for more days than I've owned Stranger Things. One code is complete. It's a masterpiece. Give me The Walking Dead. Wow. So Walking Dead advances over Stranger Things. Love you, Borgie. Yeah, that makes sense, man. I'm proud of you that you thought that through. Yeah, man. Love you, Lyman. Nicely done. Okay Just fix that skill shot Lyman Fix the skill shot And the Woodberry It's not very fun On to the next death match Both of us chose the Beatles But it goes up against two different opponents For you it goes up against Deadpool For me Ghostbusters So what say you Ken Cromwell Beatles or Deadpool In this instance I'm going to go with Deadpool over Beatles Deadpool I just think it offers me a little more variety It's a different kind of fun factor At that point where Beatles is Outstanding and totally underrated Deadpool for me That's your favorite modern Stern pinball machine And when I say modern I'm talking post DMD Alright so you've got Two of George Gomez games Going up against one another I've got the choice between Beatles And Ghostbusters to go into the finals. Man, if I'm playing with friends, I'm playing Beatles. Good point. Both of them look better than 90% of other pinball machines. The artwork by Franchi and the artwork by Zombie Yeti. Zombie Yeti, his premier art package for Stern. Mm-hmm. Yeah, give me Ghostbusters. I think it's a better game. Wow. I love Ghostbusters. I really do. Man, it's so nostalgic. That theme, isn't that a top three theme for everybody? I think it is. Yeah, theme-wise, it hits on every level for me, Ghostbusters. Now, riddle me this before we go into our final matchup. Which one is a more beloved theme, Ghostbusters or Harry Potter? Oh, you know what? I would say probably Harry Potter is more popularly or universally accepted now. For pinball buyers? Yeah, good point. That's true. That's true. That's true. Ghostbusters is, but you know what? I do know that as parents, you know, kids got into Harry Potter, kids' parents got into Harry Potter, and you're just kind of associated with that. So that'd be an excellent poll. I mean, for those that are, say, 35 to 35 and up, right? Like, is Ghostbusters that dream theme, or is it Harry Potter? It would be interesting, listener, to take the Stern Showdown bracket and answer it based on different categories, such as just theme alone. Which one wins the best theme? Because I think the final might be Jurassic Park versus Ghostbusters, and that's tough. Which one's for animations, for sound, for code, for layout? Have fun with this. That's why Stern did it. It sounds like you've got like five or six weeks of episode content. Yeah. So have fun, Dennis. Dennis really loves this stuff. I know. Dennis is like, oh, my gosh. He hates it. All right. We come to our finals of the Stern Showdown 2020. And Ken Cromwell and myself, we have different opponents. All right, King Cromwell, your choice has to be made. What is the greatest turn of all time? Is it Deadpool or Lord of the Rings? I have to choose between Ghostbusters or The Walking Dead. I can pick first. I like this final, actually. These are four great games. Absolutely. All right, when I'm making my decision between Ghostbusters and The Walking Dead, which one do I like to look at? Ghostbusters. Which one do I like to shoot more? The Walking Dead. Which one's code pulls me in more? It's a tie, kind of. I love the moments in Ghostbusters. Loop and Supers for the win there, Sully. Loop and Supers is one of the best modes of all time, especially when it got tweaked so that you didn't run into a multiball. Yep. But which one's going to take home the bacon? Here's where it comes down to for me. This one's tough because Ghostbusters screams theme. It screams moments. It screams artwork. Sound audio is incredible in Ghostbusters. Yeah, sound audio is incredible. So it screams those elements. For The Walking Dead, it screams code. It screams theme. And I'm going to say layout. I really like what Borg did with that layout. Just think of the arena shot. Very, very satisfying as well as through the pops, that shot. Ooh, the repeatable ramp shot. That barn shot that everybody loves in the left orbit. But it lacks in artwork. And I don't like pins in my collection that give me that feeling. Right. But it's a better game than Ghostbusters. By far. I'm just groaning. For me, the Stern Showdown winner in 2020 is The Walking Dead. Wow. That was very well thought out, very nicely articulated. You kind of laid it down for everybody to see your full transparency in all these different categories, everything that had entered your head to make this decision. So why don't I own it? I don't own it. But you've owned it plenty of times. Yeah, I've owned it plenty. This is what I realized. Same with Ghostbusters. Yeah, just because you move a game along, it's not because you don't love it. Yep. But sometimes you've got to send it away and let it get out in the world, and it comes back and you appreciate it down the road. Sounds like a metaphor for friendship and podcast co-hosts. Well, I may be back soon, don't you think? Let's see how that goes. Fired by Christmas. Fired by Christmas. All right, Tim Cromwell, The Lord of the Rings or Deadpool? Okay, so for me, it's like the... Man. Mine were both DMDs. That's weird. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that I have an LCD pin. I love LCD pins. artwork obviously is going to go to Deadpool fun factor of the shots would both be in Gomez designs I think that they're both fairly even there's some clunkiness in Deadpool that I'm not a fan of but it's acceptable for me well there's clunkiness in Lord of the Rings and I was going to say there's clunkiness in Lord of the Rings but they both have near perfect shots as well yeah that clunkiness has become more of like character for me than anything else the Legolas shot on Lord of the Rings is one of my favorite ramps have ever, ever, ever. Yep. The ring shot? Oh, baby. Got the Catan shot. Deadpool, the Dazzler shot, Catan shot when it's dialed in. Perfect. Yep. That Snicknit. Oh, the Snicknit. Multiplier, whatever it is. Yep, yep, yep. So there's a lot going on. All that being said is I think that, I think Lord of the Rings is where I'm going to head on this over Deadpool. And I'm surprised that Lord of the Rings, when we kind of go through this whole tournament, is the one that it comes down to. Because if you would have asked me, and I think this is the biggest variable right now. I wouldn't have guessed that for you. No, if you would have asked me six months ago, I would have been like, Lord of the Rings, eh, it's all right. But because it's here right now and I've been able to put more time on it. And appreciate it. Appreciate it more. And for me, it's like something that is in your collection and it's recent and fresh. It has a tendency to leave like a more lasting impression, or at least from a short-term standpoint. So I don't have any problems saying Lord of the Rings. It surprises me that it's Lord of the Rings, but it's absolutely deserving. I think a lot of these top games that we have really, truly cannot be appreciated until extended play. I mean, Ghostbusters being one of them. Deadpool being one. Beatles. Beatles. You cannot appreciate that. Lord of the Rings. Can't really appreciate until you destroy the ring, get it at home, or play the heck out of it. Stranger Things. It's not. Don't just plunge that ball and think, why is the ball in the air? No. It's the appreciation after you really handle that game. I would encourage everybody to obviously get on as many of these games as you can. If at all possible, don't make a decision one way or another on a game after a handful of plays. But I would also say this, and I think we've spoken about this off the air, so to speak. Don't allow yourself to be pressured to not like something or to like something because you want to follow what you think is a popular trend. Perfection, yes. Get out there. Get your own experience on these games. Formulate your own opinion. Extended experience. Don't do it because you think it impresses somebody else or because you think that you're going to be out of a club of people that have like-minded thinking. Think for yourself. It's pinball. Have fun. It's not life and death decisions. Do it for yourself before you do it for anybody else. Ken, you've had a little extended experience with me, haven't you? I don't know what that means, Zach, but I'll take your word. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, Zach, all great things must come to an end, and so shall Episode 8 of the Pinball Show, only, only on the Pinball Network. If you want to reach out to the show, you can contact the show at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. We do have a Facebook page set up, and that is The Pinball Network. You can also find us on the web at thepinballnetwork.net. And, Zach, where can they reach out to you to find you personally? Because we've got a lot of things coming up. Now, you've had a lot of correspondence lately with some exciting things and additions for TPN. I have. I was going to ask people where they could find you. You know what? You won't be able to find me at The Pinball Network, but I'm still there on Facebook, and I should have a new email address here shortly. If you guys want to reach out to, if you guys want to get something to Cromwell, just still send it to the Gmail, the pinballnetwork at gmail.com. You can reach him. We'll forward it his way. He can't get away from me that easy. I hope that you'll have me back to check in from now, every now and then. Believe me, I've already started thinking of ideas. Okay, awesome. Also check out the last Ken Cromwell Lead hosted Flip N Out Pinball Streaming Network On Monday Night Pinball Tonight, tonight, tonight Ken probably won't even be playing a game She's going to be doing a little Q&A Come into chat, bid him farewell Call in, say hello And kind of send me An email as to what you guys would like to see With that Flip N Out Pinball Network Hopefully I can get streaming up and running. Maybe BD and Bill do some streaming for us. That would be fun. Maybe we can coerce Cromwell to come back in with BD every once in a while to show off a beautiful JJP machine. Who knows? Sounds fun. Sounds fun. You can also catch me straight out of the middle of Pinball's show. Email us at sbtinpinball at gmail.com. It's a YouTube video series, all things pinball. I recently uploaded some mods and installs of mods. Those are a lot of fun. And Chuck Wirt is doing, everybody knows Chuck Wirt as the Game of Thrones expert. Now, he's diving back into the newest code that we've seen a couple months ago, and he's doing so on a premium LE. So he's got like a saga there with like hours upon hours of tutorials for that deep, deep game. Check that out. And I've been getting some great feedback from listeners of the podcast, viewers of the show, watchers of the stream, pointed towards Flip N Out Pinball when they're ready for brand new pinball machines, and they've left very happy customers and sometimes friends. So if you're looking for a brand new or gently pre-owned pinball machine, call or message me now, Zach, at Flip N Out Pinball, 812-457-9711, or email me at Zach, Z-A-C-H, at Flipp, the letter N, outpinball.com. Special shout out to Dave Smith. Dave Smith was a viewer of ours at the Flip N Out Pinball Streaming Network. And he won a prize. He was in Canada. I shipped it up to him. Generally, if it's out of the borders of the United States, we ask for some help with shipment. But didn't think twice. Nicole and I sent it out there. And he was so appreciative of that that he made a donation to Project Pinball in Nicole and I's name. Oh, that's very nice. In times like these, that really warmed Nicole and I's hearts. So, Dave, stellar, stellar, man. Thank you so much for doing that. You didn't have to do that, but you did, and it helps out children and their families. And our names, though, it doesn't get better than that, does it, Ken? Strong community effort, man. We've got a very tight-knit family and the Flip N Out Pinball streaming network over there. So it doesn't surprise me one bit, but nicely done. Again, bittersweet not being able to continue doing what we've been doing, creating content in this capacity on the Pinball Network and in other places. But I appreciate the opportunities that have presented themselves. I appreciate being able to work with you, not only here on the Pinball Show, on the Pinball Network, but for flipping out streaming. And I wanted to say thank you both to yourself and Nicole, especially on the streaming side of things. Thanks, Dennis Creasel, for being part of the network, a big part of the network. I regretfully am not going to be able to have those tri-coasting shows that I've been looking forward to every other week at least. So thank you guys. Most importantly, you know, the community, again, thanks for the support. Along the years, and I'm not going anywhere. I'm still going to be around just in a different capacity. So if there's anything that I can ever help you out with, if you just want to talk some pinball, go ahead and reach out to me because I'm always happy to do that. But, Zach, thank you so very much, man. This was a fun final episode. I couldn't have asked for a better kind of sending out, so to speak. So thank you, buddy. I agree. I loved having you every second. Selfishly, I still get to talk to you all the time. The listeners don't get to hear from you as much, but you'll still be around. I'll be around for sure. Dr. Phil, how are you, buddy? How are you? You son of a bitch, you're going to say all your farewells, all your goodbyes. You're not going to say goodbye to me? I had forgotten I was saving the best for last, Dr. Phil. I appreciate all your support, especially over the last couple years. Jersey Jack pinball. Really? That's right. Did you just fall off a turnip truck? What's wrong with you, kid? Come on, Dr. Phil. You've got to see the big picture here. What's the big picture? I see a big pinball machine. It's in my game room. It's called the Hobbit. You ever heard of that? Wide body. Yep. Absolutely. I just wanted to say, best of luck to you. You're not going to need it. And the last thing is, screw you, Tim Cromwell. There it is. We ended. How it started. What kind of bullshit is this? With Dr. Phil. Thank you, Dr. Phil, for joining the program. Oh, man. Dr. Phil, ladies and gentlemen, before we leave, Dennis Creasel, it's you, it's I, mano y mano, It's it. We're the last survivors on the island. And to you I say... Then I look at you And the world's alright with me Just won't look at you And I know it's gonna be... That's it, guys. Go get them for Zach Many. I'm Ken Cromwell. Joe Loveday, Joe Loveday, Joe Loveday My Laura And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. Sincerely, so long, everybody. And cut. Cut. That was good. It's a wrap. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You didn't. Hello. Hello. Hello. Yeah. You didn't say pinball market trends. You didn't. You didn't intro it. Oh, thank you. Thank you. See, I'm off today. You're off today. I'm sorry. When I was in high school, because I wanted to get into sports broadcasting, that was my whole thing, and I remember my algebra teacher, at one point I was struggling on something, and he calls on me in class, and I didn't know the answer, so I just started trying to wing it verbally because he was asking how I was going through trying to find the solution to the problem. And I just kind of stopped. And he's like, why aren't you getting this? And I'm like, you know what? I don't know. I guess I just didn't put forth the effort. He's like, you need to know this. If you're going to grow up and get in the world, you're going to know how to do this. And I said, well, that's not necessarily true. And he's like, why? What do you want to do when you grow up? I said, well, I want to be a sports broadcaster. A sports broadcaster? Just going to grow up and spit in a microphone? And I was like, no. And now here I am 44 years later doing two-ball podcasts. I don't know what the hell is going on with algebra. It's like, hey, what happened with algebra? I mean, I know algebra now, but it's like I couldn't go back and dissect those problems after being, you know, a little rusty. But that's right, Mr. Algebra Math Teacher in high school. Eat shit, Mr. Murphy. I grew up to be a pinball podcaster. That's right. All right with me. I took one look at you. And I know it's all a bit. I love you. Thank you.