It's time for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teels. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. All your subscriptions, past episodes, and more. We're also on Twitter and Instagram, at pinballprofile. You can join our Facebook group and email us, pinballprofile at gmail.com. A pleasure to be talking to this man once again. It's been a while since I've seen him because we haven't been able to do tournaments, but he's been a little active lately, and you can certainly see him on YouTube under Marv Loco. It's Travis Murray from Oklahoma. How are you, buddy? Jeff, I'm doing fantastic. And let me say, I always thought you had pre-recorded that intro, but he's doing it live, ladies and gentlemen. That is amazing. Bill O'Reilly taught me best. We'll do it live! It's good to talk to you because not too many people I know are state champions, not just once, but twice. And for multiple states, you are the state champion in Oklahoma and also Oklahoma. That is correct, yeah. And I have to thank Josh Sharpe for that because apparently we have a 51st state that I was not aware of until I won that event. So I'm very proud of that. It's my most proudest trophy I have, for sure. So if you watch Marv Loco on YouTube and you should be checking out his pinball podcast, which I gotta talk to you about. Why are you calling it a podcast? Is that really a podcast when you're videoing it? Hey, it works for Joe Rogan, right? I guess, I guess. Was he always videoing it though or is that since he's been on Spotify? No, he's always videoed it. All right there, Joe Rogan. The point is, if you look on your Marv Loco on the top left screen, you can see the OKALHOMA state champion. So that's a title you'll be defending forever. To be fair, they did send a plaque with the correct spelling. I just I love that trophy too much, though. I think the story behind it is pretty funny because it's something we all realized it early on that it was misspelled from the very get go. And then I just decided I was not going to lose that tournament no matter what. Well, you've done well in these tournaments, in the state champs. In fact, you're the two-time defending champ. And I don't know what the action is like in Oklahoma. I don't know. I know there's certainly Cactus Jacks and all that kind of excitement there. So there's got to be a good wealth of pinball players there. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people up and coming still. And it's one of those things that a lot of us are still very regional to where we'll play in Kansas, Oklahoma, of course. And a lot of times we'll go down to Texas. So TPF, the whole community goes down there. But of course, before 2020 hit, there was a lot more people that were starting to travel a little bit more. I was one of the first ones to really get outside the region and travel to different places like Florida and California, for instance. And there was actually a lot more people that were going to start doing that. And hopefully once the tournaments come back, they will for sure. I did see you at Freeplay Florida. In fact, you were there with your wife and family too. And you play six at Freeplay Florida. And then, of course, I think I also saw you at Houston's incredible Space City Open. Yeah, we were down there. And that was actually right when we decided that we were going to drive across the country from Houston to Florida with my entire family. So that was a trip in itself. And I don't know, that was a little crazy to do that. But at the same time, I guess it's memories, of course. You know, I'm pulling my hair out in the middle of doing it. But afterwards, I definitely appreciate the time with four screaming kids and my wife right there telling me I'm going the wrong direction. Four young kids, I might add, too. So that's some real juggling, I have to admit. It is a little bit. But, you know, being a dad, it's one of the greatest things on earth. I wouldn't trade anything for it. That brings me up to a point. I saw your most recent podcast at the time of this recording. And you and I have something similar. And it was nice and very touching to hear you talk about your late father who passed away 10 years ago, just as mine did, too. So it was a nice little tribute that you gave there. And what I liked about it was how you really related it to this pinball hobby and what it's given back to you. Here you are providing a service and doing the Marv Loco series and the pinball podcast and really being a good ambassador, certainly for your state, and just really a wealth of information. But you get stuff back in return that I'm sure you weren't even planning on. But because of this community, you know, you get those accolades. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the big reasons why I started doing this is just because I love the hobby so much that I really wanted to meet people. And that's my primary motivation for doing the YouTube channel, for doing the podcast is to meet different people and to also learn. Because, you know, I realize that there's so much that has to do with pinball that I don't know about. You know, I might have opinions and some of them might be right and a lot of them will be wrong. But I enjoy learning. I enjoy getting to know new people. and even getting to talk to people that I've known for a few years now. I mean, there's just some awesome people in this hobby. And like you mentioned, Jeff, at the same time, I'm able to basically take things in which, you know, of course, nobody wants to lose a parent. It's a terrible thing to have happen. But also at the other end of that spectrum is just the ability to do something that you thoroughly enjoy. And now it's something that I'm able to share with my children as well as they're starting to get into pinball more and more. And it's just for me, it's just it's a blessing. It really is. Do your kids watch the videos of you talking? Hey, there's dad. Or do they not care at this point? You know, it's funny because I've had some of my pinball friends stay over here if they're coming through town, like Luke Nahorniak, for instance, who's the Minnesota state champion. I'm sure you've met him before. Lots of times. Yeah. Yeah. And it's hilarious because my youngest son, Carter, who's 10 years old, he took a liking to Luke and we just played in the Penskins just recently. So we're over on Tom's channel in Fox Cities. and my kids were more excited to see Luke on the stream than they were me. I mean, it's just they love seeing different people and meeting different people. And a lot of that is because a lot of people in pinball are just great people overall. And I can't say enough good things about everybody that I've met before. See, that's what I'm doing wrong. I'm doing a podcast. It's audio only. Although I do it because of this mug. But, you know, I'm not a handsome fellow like yourself. Although I do have a lot more facial hair. All right, I will say that. You know what? I've worked on my beard. I've had over a year now to work on it, and it's just not working. I just turned 37, and damn it, it's still facial hair won't come in. Maybe if I hit 40. I don't know. I don't know what the secret is. I really don't. What is the legal age in Oklahoma for puberty? It's got to be 38, somewhere around there. So any day now. You know, whatever it is, I haven't hit it yet. I mean, I guess the good thing is when I go to restaurants, I still get carded. So, I mean, I'm happy about that. Sure. Right. I mean, the best that I ever had it was we were at a restaurant. I went out to eat with my wife and I got carded and she didn't. And so I got to hold that over her for so long. And she's six months younger than me. And she hated me for like six months straight when I just brought that up every time. But I won't say that to her anymore, though. Love you, sweetie. Monica's all right in everybody's book. So, yeah, you'd be good to that woman. Now, she is a big fan of yours, though, Jeff. Now, why is that? So you and Keith Elwin are actually her two favorite pinball players. Because of our skills, I assume. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Why is that? That's flattering and I'm shocked, but why? Well, a big reason is because whenever we're in the car, I'll play podcasts on and I play yours a lot. And of course, she hears the voice. She recognizes the voice. And then getting to meet you in person at Freeplay Florida, I mean, you were just nice as can be. And just in a day and age in which a lot of people are fairly judgmental of different people, and we all have our big differences, you approached them with just such humility. I mean, she couldn't say enough nice things about you, and you instantly became one of her favorite people in pinball when she had the chance to meet you down there. I am flattered, and I'm not fishing for this. This is the first I'm hearing of this, so that's very nice. I do remember seeing Monica there at Freeplay Florida, and that's why I said about the bunch of kids, because I was grabbing a bite to eat and there was Monica, I think, sitting at the table beside me and juggling children at the time, I believe, really was, you know, we were all trying to eat. She's bouncing different kids off different knees and stuff and trying to feed them. Mother of the year right there. Yeah, she's outstanding. I couldn't ask for a better wife or a better mother. I mean, we've got, you know, four-year-old twins that are about to be five and then two boys that are 10, 11 years old. So it's just, I mean, I couldn't ask for a better partner in life. And plus, I mean, she lets me play pinball too. And she's even into pinball. She has her own pinball machine. She loves to play as well. So, I mean, it's I'm very blessed for sure. What pinball machine does Monica love? So I discovered this very early on because I think this might have been our second or third machine we had overall. And I surprised her with a Pirates of the Caribbean from Stern. And this was a long time ago for our anniversary. And it's funny, I actually had a chance to get one. I think it was in Louisiana or Alabama. And I was prepared to drive about 14 hours just overnight, go grab it and surprise her. And the deal fell through. And I didn't quite know what I was going to do because I had my heart set on this and I didn't have any other gifts or anything prepared. So I ended up legitimately going to a meanies gallery. I think it's called just a local dealer that, of course, I paid way too much for this route at pirate. So I think it was like $6,000 at the time. I mean, way too much. But it turned out to be the best purchase I've ever made pinball-wise because she's done everything to it. She's worked on it. And she's just – I mean, it's fun watching her do what she does with the pinball machines. And it's fun to share that hobby with my wife. I mean, it is a whole lot of fun. You have a big collection. I've seen it. And I remember when I was about to get my second game. And I thought, okay, my wife is okay with one game, but how will Anne feel about two and then eventually several? But the second one's the hardest one. So I thought, okay, she loves, loves the Rolling Stones. And I knew they had a Rolling Stones pinball machine. So I thought, if I get that, maybe that'll open the crack, so to speak. So I said to her, I said, honey, they've got a Rolling Stones pinball machine. What do you think? And she says, is it a good game? Thank God she asked me that. I said, well, there's ACDC. It's a lot better. We'll just get that one then. Dodged a bullet. Massive bullet right there. So anyway, it's funny. My wife's favorite pinball machine that I own is, believe it or not, Joker Poker, the Solid State. Loves the bells, loves the look of it, and just it's interesting. The older game, she much prefers the classics. The other one's too fast, too furious. It's funny you mention that because as time has gone on, my wife has really taken to the EMs. I mean, our EM collection has just grown and grown and grown, and she's gotten to where she actually enjoys redoing the cabinet and kind of using it for a miniature restoration. We have a big Indian that's actually downstairs that she's worked on a lot, and I think she's about to start working on a Spanish eyes here pretty soon It a definite hobby for her but that the way to do it is once you get the wives hooked then you good to go You know I mean if anybody out there is listening if you wondering how to get more pinball machines, I'm telling you an excellent strategy. Ask your wife what she's into and surprise her with a pinball machine. Because you know what, Jeff? They can't act like that. They don't like your gift. They may not like it, but you might get lucky and they might get hooked. And that's what I definitely got lucky on for sure. Spanish Eyes, that is a great game. Every time I think of that game, I think of what Holly Koskinen did at the Whipped Tournament at Pinberg a few years ago. Yeah, it's like a clinic. The best Spanish Eyes game I've ever seen played. So that is a fun game for sure. I even remember watching somebody, they had the ball trapped underneath one of the flippers, and somehow they were able to save the ball, if I remember right. If I'm thinking of the exact same tournament. This is back in 2019, I think? Yes. Yeah, that was amazing gameplay by them. And Holly, I've had the chance to meet her out in Denver, and she's awesome. She's a really nice person. Absolutely. No question about it. So shout out to Columbus, Ohio. You made a little bit of a trip recently. You talked about it. You went up to Wisconsin. You went to District 82, which you talk about a fantastic facility. I'm in awe every time I see what Eric Thorne's done up there, and, of course, Tom Graff and his streaming from there. That tournament was quite something to see. It was a skins tournament. It was a match play, a target match play. Tell us about what happened there at District 82. Yeah, I mean, I've been able to get up there a couple of times, you know, during the whole COVID outbreak and all that. But it's an outstanding place. I mean, it's one of those places, if you haven't been there before, you have to put it on your pinball bucket list. I was just the first time I ever went in there. I even told my wife and I told Eric, as soon as I met him, I was like, I have to take a step back and just take this all in. I mean, it was just the atmosphere is just perfect. It's just it's hard to put it into words that it's just something that you have to experience for yourself. I mean, they have playfields everywhere up on the wall. They have trans lights that are all lit up all along the wall, over 100 games going. And the craziest part about it, Jeff, is it's basically 50 percent classics. Another 50 percent is moderns. But the classics play exactly the way you think that they should play. And they play excellent. like I'm just floored when I go there and I hope the people of Wisconsin that go to District 82 realize how lucky they are because my god Eric is doing great up there and just that whole community too the people they're so incredibly welcoming there and very nice people and it's just it's one of my favorite places to go to they looked competition ready I was watching some of them and different modes that I saw on games that I was familiar with I'm like I haven't seen that mode before, but it was like maybe a harder level. Like I was watching Lethal Weapon 3, and when I played that game, that's the first game I ever owned. All I would do, I didn't even care about multiball. You're going to get it on ball three anyway. All I would do, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, but not in that order. You could go three, you could go one, you could go two, and then just get the set and then move on to the next one. That was the goal for me in Lethal Weapon 3, but watching it at District 82, you can't quite do that. You had to hit it in order. You had to hit one, then two, then three, and then start over again. So it made it a little more difficult. Yeah. And that's one of the coolest things about District 82 is every single pin in there is tournament ready. So anytime, even when the general public comes in, and that's why the community up there is so lucky to be able to play all those games, is the fact that they are tournament ready and they all play great. And the great thing about it too, is Eric is very receptive to hearing comments after the tournament. So he'll ask us, you know, how do you think this game played or what do you think I could do a little bit different to make it play a little bit more difficult? You know, and so things like that, I truly believe that that place will be the premier place to go to in the coming future. And I would not be shocked at all if there was a Nationals and a Penmasters held there at the very least a Stern Pro Circuit tournament. Oh, that's a good point, too, because where are they going to go? I mean, Papa sold off all their Stern games, or many of the games anyway. I know a lot of them did remain in Pittsburgh, but that's where they got their games from before. So I don't know if they're going to go to the Stern Pinball Alley and play them there. Although I guess the new Pro Circuit is all modern games anyway, which I get it from a marketing standpoint. Can't say I'm a huge fan of it. I am a fan of the dollars that go into it. That's pretty exciting. But that's what I loved about Pinberg. That's what I love about this District 82. That's what I love about the World Championship. You have to be skilled at all different types of pinball, whether it's modern games, whether it's classics or some solid states somewhere in between, some late 80s, early 90s games. You have to be skilled at everything. Definitely. And that's what's amazing about up there is the fact that a lot of their tournaments, when I've been up there, you've played a modern one round and then the next round you play classics. So you always have to be on your toes. You always have to be making adjustments. And as a result, there's a lot of excellent players up that way. I mean, there are great players from top to bottom that I would fully expect that if they did travel, they would be able to compete with some of the best players in the country. The IFPA currently not open for business as far as endorsing tournaments for whopper points and rankings and all those kind of good things, but still tournaments are happening and a lot of cash tournaments are prizing and things like that, which certainly would help local pinball and arcades. And we certainly want to see those do well. But I would imagine maybe late summer, we see the IFPA opening up. We're still not quite at the numbers the last time I talked to Josh. And that takes into account all the different states that are voting on whether they're comfortable and ready to open, all the provinces, all the different countries. So that number is still at 40%. We've still got a ways to go. But hopefully, fingers crossed, there are some hot spots around the world, Canada even being one of them. But hopefully the pandemic is winding down a little bit as vaccines roll out. Yeah, that's what I'm hoping on. And I think the main thing is, because I know obviously I've talked to a lot of different people about tournaments and I want them to come back. I wish IFBA would be able to turn everything on. But at the same time, I want everybody to stay as safe as possible. And I think it's important to be empathetic to just different regions that may not necessarily be ready to go, but at the same time, respect the regions that want to play in the tournaments as long as that they're doing it, you know, in a safe way. And that's one of the best things I can say about District 82 is that, you know, you're required to wear masks, you know, the distance the best that you can. And, you know, but it's just hopefully this gets behind us in due time and we can get back to some sense of normalcy. Because the thing I miss the most, Jeff, is just the people. I miss seeing the people in person. I mean, it's one thing to talk like we are over Skype or over text message. It's a whole other thing to be able just to sit down and have a beer face to face. And that's what I miss the most. And so and admire the facial hair. I get it. I get it. Absolutely. Yeah, I can't wait. I'm going to start right now. I'm going to go no shave for the rest of the year and we'll see where we're at. we'll figure it out. My bet is Carter will have a beard before you. What'd you say? He's 11. I mean, well, he's 10. My 11 year old. Let me tell you about that, Jeff. And I'll tell you a secret that hopefully nobody, nobody will hear. No one's listening. Except for the thousands of people that will hear this. No, no, no. This is, this is a podcast. Your videos get viewed. This, no one's listening. Maybe your family. That's it. My 11 year old was bragging to me the other day that he has more facial hair than I do. Cause he discovered he had a little mustache. I'm like, seriously, dude, I'm like, I'm about to send you outside. I can't even with you right now. Oh, it grows faster in sunlight. So maybe you don't want to send him outside. Just pointing that out. Oh, that's so funny. But your videos are certainly something that have become part of people's regular routines. It's neat to see when a new game comes out or your kind of critiques, recent ones. You played Led Zeppelin, Ellie. You played Guns N' Roses, Ellie. And you had some interesting comparisons. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things that, you know, with Guns N' Roses, I kind of have like a love-hate relationship with it because I own a Guns N' Roses. And I was talking to somebody about this the other day, and I don't know if I've quite said this before on a podcast or on any of my videos or anything. But it's like I like the design by Eric, and I like the code by Kiefer, or I like when he's coding. It just feels like something for me is just disconnected when it's together. and I can't quite put my finger on it. I don't know if it's just the amount of multiball. I really don't know what it is. And I could, obviously, I'm in the minority. I don't want to take anything away from it. I mean, I get the emails all the time if I say something negative about Guns N' Roses. I mean, the fact is, there's no denying. It's definitely an awesome looking pen and it's affecting the industry in a positive way because there's a lot of people that bought their Guns N' Roses and they thoroughly enjoy it. But even with Led Zeppelin, my first instinct when I saw it is obviously I felt the way a lot of people felt that it looked bare. But once I got it and once I started playing it and once I started understanding the code more and I started finding where the shots were, I found myself. I played that more than any game in my in my home arcade. I mean, I just I could not put it down. And just hearing the music and just blowing the shots, it was just something I really enjoyed. And it kind of brought me back to the way like a solid state would play to where I can go from zero to 100 very quickly, especially if you wax down that play field and you're going. And I didn't really get that same feeling from Guns N' Roses where it felt like it was more of a slower build up. And then, of course, once you got into the music and the song, it got fun from there, you know, with everything blaring. But then at the same time, it was like having to deal with all those multiballs at the same time. That kind of was a drag a little bit. But it's it's just one of those weird things. I find myself, if I'm in single ball and the music is blaring on Guns N' Roses, my fun factor goes way, way up. And so that's what I'm trying to figure out, that balance. I don't know. Have you had a chance to play the Guns N' Roses before? I've played the pro and I've enjoyed it incredibly every time I've played it. The one thing I regret is that I haven't been able to watch it being played other than on streams. So there is kind of that loss factor, especially when multiballs are happening. and you mentioned that on your Marv Loco series, you kind of almost have to drain to figure out what's going on. And if you watch Carl's stream on IE Pinball, you'll certainly see it in depth and he explains it. And that helps me. But listen, I'm going to get it the more times I play it, but I kind of want to figure it out on my own if I can. And I'm having difficulty with that. I'm still having incredible loads of fun. But you were talking about the multiballs and it got me thinking. There are a lot of games that have multiballs, obviously. Some games have a lot more multiballs. Think of Indiana Jones, and when that arc opens up. Think of Apollo 13. And now even Heist has 15 multiballs. Well, to me, personally, there has to be a number where it's just too many balls. And I think those three examples are too many balls. I don't know what the sweet spot is, if it's three, if it's six. But I'll give you an example. On my Guardians you go into Cherry Bomb multiball which is very very important You got 60 seconds of ball save and you got targets to hit I purposely let several balls drain because there are too many balls in the way So six is too many for me. What do you think? No, absolutely. I fully agree on that. And I mean, you know, a lot of that, Jeff, could be just our mindset is that of a tournament player, that we know what shots that we want to hit. And usually we can hit those shots if we just have a couple of balls on a flipper. Whereas when it's just so chaotic going around, it's just it goes against all of our instincts that we built up in trying to stay under control and trying to hit a certain shot. But, you know, I feel like Guns N' Roses is probably Andre Massingoff's dream. I really do. I feel like that's probably like him and Andy Rosa. I can almost guarantee they probably love that pin to death. But it just I don't know. I told somebody the other day it almost feels like a Michael Bay movie to where it's awesome. the first chance you get it. It's pretty good the second time you do it. But then once you get to the third, fourth and fifth viewing, it's kind of like, OK, I need a break for a little while and then I can come back to it. So Guns and Roses is just one of those games for me personally that I feel like if I play it once a week, I thoroughly enjoy it. Like I'll have fun. It's worth my time to play it. But if I try to play every single day, I might tire out from it. You know, but the best thing that I can say about it that I'm happy with Guns N' Roses is the fact that my kids enjoy playing it. And it's got them involved in pinball. I mean, my son Carter, he just has a big old smile on his face every time he plays it. So it will have a place in our game room for a long time to come for that very reason. I mean, my family loves the game. You must have family settings on. All the songs aren't available in your household. So I accidentally... Uh-oh. I'm father of the year, and I accidentally left it on adult setting and subwoofers turned on and I'm downstairs. And all of a sudden I just hear like that. You guys effing rock just blaring through my house. And I'm like, what was that? I go up there and my poor son's just looking at it and looking back at me. He's like, I didn't mean to do it. I'm like, I know, I know it's your knucklehead dad that forgot to reset it on family settings. That's so funny. We were had Charlie Emery on our final round podcast that I do with Martin Robbins. And he was talking about getting licenses and getting things approved by now Warner Brothers, formerly Adult Swim, for Rick and Morty. And of course, there's a lot of different language on Rick and Morty, but you can set it to family mode as you would. And Warner Brothers doesn't quite understand that. Wait a minute. There's different settings and you can turn that off. So they're actually more concerned about things that were actually on their program that they didn't think would be good out in public or in the home setting. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, that's kind of odd because it's kind of like, I don't know, when I look at Rick and Morty, I would think you need it set the way Rick and Morty talk, you know, because that's like the whole entire thing. It just, that is interesting. In your Led Zeppelin and Guns N' Roses LE comparison, you and I both noticed the same thing. The upper right flipper shot to the ramp and Habitrail. One of the hardest shots in pinball. Yeah, it's insane. I feel like I'm a fairly accurate player when I want to be, but with that, it's by far the most difficult shot I've ever encountered on any pinball machine. But it's fun when you hit it, but at the same time, I've tried to find different ways to make it easier because I know how important that shot can be overall to the game. It adds five seconds to your multiplier once you activate Icarus too, And, of course, there are other shots that it's important for. And the code is, to me, the best thing about that game. You're right. The first look at it, the layout, okay, we've seen a lot of this before. There's a lot of similarities to other games, especially by Steve Ritchie. But the code is great. And the multipliers with the new code, wow. I mean, there's some big payoffs there. Oh, it's hilarious. Yeah, yeah. Does it nerf everything else in the game, though? or because it's such a short window of that, whether it's like Matthew Richardson did, 750 times play field multiplier. What they are doing is insane. I know him and Carlos, they're both trying to be the first person to get to 1,000. And it looks like it's a lot of fun. I mean, just today, literally today, Jeff, I decided I was going to try to do the same thing. So I played four games on Led Zeppelin. I didn't even break 10 million on any of the games. I was just like, what is going on? I put up a Monster 3.2x multiplier, though, so I was pretty proud of that. But yeah, it's just the rule set on it is outstanding. I really do enjoy the fact that you can get into a song and those shots are going to move no matter what you do. And I really do enjoy that because it feels like you can make progression. But at the same time, even if you're missing shots, you'll still get to a different part of the song. The shots will still move and you don't feel like you're ever stuck. And I think that's really what I enjoy about it. There's never that one shot where I'm like, OK, I got to hit this. I got to hit this. I got to hit this. Even if I start bricking one particular shot like that left eject, I can just turn around and just decide to, you know, to combo shots and then build up that multiplier just like you were talking about. So there's a lot of different options on there. And I think if people are looking at possibly playing the pen in the future, you know, you haven't got a chance to yet, really, whenever you do get a chance, look at the code, decide from there whether you like it or not, just because those songs, I mean, the songs are great. And when they're blaring and when the different shots are clearly visible to see, that's what's really rewarding. And that's kind of to me is where my comparison with Guns N' Roses comes from, because if I'm playing Guns N' Roses, yes, the light show is spectacular. Yes, it is great. But there's more times than not that I'm having to look at the screen to figure out where my next shot is while there's just total chaos going around. Where with Led Zeppelin, it's just such a better organic flow to where I know where this next shot's going to be. Then I know I'm going to flow it to this shot, and then I know I'm going to rip this spinner. I mean, I can't say enough. Tim Sexton and Raymond Davidson, they've done an excellent job with that code. Speaking of code, we're about to see new code on an old game. Haggis Pinball is now doing their classic series, and they're beginning by remaking Fathom. But not just the Fathom as you know it, but also a 2.0 code, complete with modes, multi-balls, wizard modes, ball save. I know you're excited about it. I'm excited about it, too. What's the feedback you've been hearing? You know, a lot of people are, especially locally, a lot of people are interested in it, interested to see what it's going to be. And, you know, it's funny, too. There's so many new people in the pinball hobby just this past year that the only thing that they are really familiar with is the modern game. So seeing something like this, that is definitely obviously a callback to a game that was made 40 years ago. And it's brought up to just being modernized, whether it's I mean, just the look of it, Jeff. Obviously, you saw I mean, that machine pops. It's a beautiful machine. And the idea of taking something that's just that classic layout and adding a new code to it to be able to play a different version of it nearly. I mean, that really excites me because I feel like that's something in pinball that I've been wishing would happen for so long to where maybe some of these machines don't necessarily need a super deep code. Maybe what they need is two or three different, basically different codes with them that turn the game completely upside down and make your whole gameplay completely different to where you're not stuck just doing the same thing over and over again. And that's what I'm really excited about Fathom. I know we were talking about it just earlier tonight, the fact that if we're playing Fathom, all we're really trying to do is just rip Spinner the entire time. and the fact that they are putting out a machine with that 2.0 code and it gives you something completely different to do with wizard modes, with modes. To me, that's exciting. As a pinball fan, that is very exciting, and I'm so happy for Haggis and for Marty down there being able to do something like that. I think that's excellent and that's great for the pinball industry. I think it's great. I've heard some people talk about the price, and I said, well, you know what? I think a year or two from now you're going to be looking going, that price was set just right. And if you buy that game and you decide to sell it, you're not losing a cent, like you can say about most new games, right? So the price is what it is. And I was talking with a friend online today, and, geez, that seems like a lot of money. And I'm like, really? People spent $500 on a Stern book. People spent $1,000 on toppers. You're getting a game with basically two games in it because of the Mermaid Edition. I think it's good value and a layout we already know we love. So there's no surprises. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, what I would say to people that are really worried about the price is that if you want to get an original fathom, it's still going to be forty five hundred, maybe even fifty five hundred dollars. I've seen some of them go for that price. Now, how much is it going to cost you just in sweat equity, not only, you know, hitting your wallet, but just in sweat equity to get that pen to play and to look like this pen that Haggis is putting out? because one of the things Haggis has is that play field, the dimple-free play field. And the pictures I've seen look excellent. And from people that have seen it in person, they all just rave about it. So there's certain aspects of that pen in general that I think is well worth the money. And if you love Fathom, I don't see how you couldn't get it. I mean, to me, it's great value. If you love the game, why not do something like that? I mean, oh, Jeff, we live in a world right now where people are paying out 30,000 plus dollars for a Pirates from Jersey Jack. You know, so. Yeah. So to me, it's like, you know, it's just the fun factor in it. You know, play, play the games you love to play. Enjoy the hobby you want, the way you want to enjoy it. Again, whether you're buying a top or whether you're buying the Haggis beam, whether buying a new in box machine, the value is what you deem it worth. Right. The market has dictated the price. It's not inflated by any of these companies or any of these products. The demand is there. And by limiting the supply, that also makes that price a lot more attractive, too. Absolutely. They have, to my knowledge, they have a pretty good following down there in Australia. And when you start dipping into games that are classics that every single veteran pinball player can really identify with, and it's the type of game that looks good to even new pinball players. I mean, it gets your attention when you see it. And when you read about the things that they've added on to it, to me, it just becomes a no brainer. I know for sure if I didn have to deal with the shipping which I not even sure what it would be for the classic edition but if it is here in the States I would have a very hard time not getting one of those I really would An up version that we have support for To me I very excited to see not just Fathom but the other games that they might have coming out potentially in the future I was at the Haggis factory and that playfield you were talking about, I took a hammer and I smashed the hell out of it and nothing could be done to it. And then I shot the game with that playfield in it and it felt fine. Every pinball machine is going to feel different. A Jersey Jack is going to feel different than a Spooky, than a Stern, than an old Gottlieb, than a Data East. It's just the way it is. It still felt like pinball. It's still flippers. The play field was absolutely fine. So I know Dr. John Koss, and I don't think I'm speaking out of turn because he's probably said it publicly, he received the first Celts game and unboxed it and showed it on his Emily and Dr. John Twitch channel. And he told me personally, he said, it's one of the finest builds of a pinball machine he has seen anywhere. And that's something that's been a topic lately for a lot of machines, the build quality. I know you and I have talked privately about concerns we've had about not just one, but a few companies and some of the more recent titles that have come out and the quality of the games. Is there a legitimate concern there? Because we're seeing it on Pinside, we're hearing it on channels like Marv Local and Kerry Hardy and others. What do you think's going on there? To me, it's one of those things that obviously pinball has grown and there's tons of machines that are going out And you have the human element of people working on the pins. But at the same time, I've absolutely I've had issues with several machines. And it's funny because when you are spending that much money, your expectations are that you just want the machine to work. You know, and so even with Ninja Turtles, like I'll freely admit, if anybody's watched my videos, you've probably seen behind me that I had a Turtles LE. And then one day it was gone. And one of the big reasons that diverter, I just could not trust it anymore. It failed on me so many times that I no longer could justify having a pinball machine in my room that cost that much money in which I was scared to play it. Now, conversely, the Pro, it's on location just 15 minutes down the road, and that bad boy is a workhorse. I mean, it is work. There hasn't been any issues with it at all. And that's kind of one of the things I've discovered. All my Stern Pros I have, they definitely work great. But when it comes to premiums and LEs, there always is something a little bit wrong that I might have to fix. And some of them are bigger than others, but it's not just Stern. I had the same thing happen with Hot Wheels in which I think it was a node board I had some issues with, but the American pinball people got right on it and they were excellent to deal with. And even the same thing with my Guns N' Roses right now, I'm having some issues with that as well when it comes to the scoop and the clear coat on it. And then also my disc is starting to just kind of break apart. And, you know, I don't know why that is. I'm not quite sure why pinball in general hasn't figured out how to just get that one pin that just has zero issues with it whatsoever, because this isn't just one company. You know, I've seen them all have all issues. I mean, we're talking, you know, Spooky, the Rick and Morty I've seen, you know, on location. It's had some issues and I don't know what it could be, Jeff. I part of me just wants to chalk it up. It's just the human element of things. And then the other part of me just wonders is if they're just trying to get these games out so fast that sometimes mistakes are just made. And then other times it's just acts of God. Like if I have a wire form that just randomly breaks because there's just too much force on it, you know, I don't. Whose fault is that really? You know what I mean? It's just sometimes pinball is just so physical. Those things are going to happen. And, you know, I kind of expect it nowadays. But at the same time, when it does happen, it's it's not a good feeling. When you buy a new in-box game, is the box going to your house or are you opening it at the distributors? You know, that's a tough one. I've gotten boxes, obviously, from Zach. I've driven up to Indiana to go get them, and I never have unboxed it right then and there. And that's kind of interesting you point it out because I know that there is some of my friends that have done that before. And, you know, to be fair, I've never had a game in which I've gotten new in-box that was just a complete lemon. So even with my Guns N' Roses having the scoop issue, it still played. Now, well, I say that the lights weren't coming on, and I was getting so frustrated that finally I just hit the side of the cabinet like the Fonz, and it did magically come on. I still have no clue how that happened. But, you know, overall, I don't know. That might be the right thing to do. But I've been very fortunate in games that have been shipped to my house or games I've picked up at the local dock in which there hasn't been any damage to the boxes. Now, I'll have to knock on wood. I've said that now. And probably the next one I get will undoubtedly have issues. But, yeah, I've I've seen some horror stories, though, from people that have received a new in box pen. And even when the machine looks like it's OK, the box looks OK. All of a sudden they open it up and there's something in there that's not OK. whether it's a bent lock bar or whether one of the legs is just broken off. I mean, I even knew somebody in which the trough was legitimately missing out of the pinball machine, which that was the damnedest thing to see. I'm fine with games not coming perfect or there are flaws here and there, or like you say, things, acts of God may break. Because if the service is there to help you with your purchase and give you that customer confidence you should have for spending that kind of money on a pinball machine, I'm fine with that. You know, if you look after the customer, that's okay. The game had an error? Okay, we'll write that one off, but let's get that error fixed. So that's why I asked about opening it at the distributors, because I would imagine, based on the volume of concerns I've heard over the last year, and maybe it's just the pandemic, who knows, the pinball companies are going to start to question the customer, and it's more expensive for them to fix a game after the fact than get it right the first time. So are they going to want you to open it at the distributor? Are you as the customer going to want to just make sure the distributor sees what you see before you take it home? Because who knows? The distributor or the pinball company can say, well, that happened in transit or that happened after the fact. How do we know? You almost need a third party there, in the case of the distributor, the middle person, to verify the machine you're getting. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I don't doubt that there are bad actors out there in which they might have did something to their pinball machine that they shouldn't have done. And then they claim, well, this is, you know, broke when I got it. But, you know, the one good thing that I can say about all these companies, and I'm speaking about Spooky, American Pinball, Jersey Jack and Stern. When you do have an issue and you get with them, they will typically get back to you as soon as they possibly can. Obviously, it's probably a little bit more difficult for Stern just seeing the volume that they do. And I imagine Jersey Jack is kind of the same way right now. But all those companies, they're usually pretty good about getting back to you and working with you. And that's why I would tell anybody that's listening to this, if you're thinking about getting a new pinball machine, definitely make sure that your distributor has you taken care of. I mean, those are questions that you'll want to ask before even ordering, you know, what's your support that you will give me before? And that's the one great thing that I can say about my distributor with Zach Mini is he anytime I have an issue and I've had, you know, several, obviously, with Ninja Turtles and Avengers of the Wire Form Breaking and all that. I've let him know and he's gotten on it immediately. And that helps so much when you do have a distributor in your corner going to bat for you and going to these companies. I mean, it really does pay dividends when you have something like that. So I would tell anybody that's looking at getting a new inbox, like make sure you have all that in order because it is a little nerve wrecking. It really is. When you put that much money on the line and you receive it, you want it to work. And obviously these companies, they want it to work too. None of us should get it twisted. These companies do not want to sell you lemons. They do not want to sell you something in here that you're having issues. I mean, that's devastating for them because that's just more money that they have to spend to fix it. So I think we all have the same goal in mind that we just want pinball machines that work. So I think that's the important thing to keep in mind when you do receive a pinball machine that might have an issue with it. Although I will say there are are still some major issues out there that do get frustrating. Travis, it's always good to talk to you, and hopefully soon we'll see each other once again. You know, there are a lot of people that do their opinion pieces, whether it be on YouTube or on Twitch or they do podcasts. Those people are a dime a dozen. But you, you, sir, are a pinball unicorn. We talked about your two-time state champion in the two different states, one that I didn't even know exists. But also, I think you are the only person in the world I know who spent time at Joe Exotic's Tiger Farm. Oh, gosh. Yeah, yeah. And somebody needs to jump on that license, Tiger King pinball license. They're making a movie. Are they really? They're going to be making, oh, yeah, they're making a movie. They've already been casting it. Oh, don't tell me. Who's starring as Joe Exotic? I think he's a theater actor. I'm not familiar with his work, but yeah, it should be good. That's hilarious. Well, I can't wait to watch that. I'll be there opening night. Oh, of course you will. And I mean, they should consult you, too. I don't remember that. I don't remember the gift shop being like that. I remember him selling this and that. And there was kind of the smell of old pizzas and old meats. Oh, gosh. And I've known people that ate that pizza, too. Oh, they saw the Netflix show. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, there was legitimately there was a bunch of us in Oklahoma that have ate that pizza before. And we were not aware of that. Luckily, I wasn't one of them. I knew better. I know that when I go to a tiger safari in Oklahoma, you do not eat the food that is there. I know that. I've learned that living here all my life. You didn't try their grab bag surprise meal? No, I can't say that I did. I can't say that I did. I will say he's probably the most eccentric person I've ever seen, though. It was quite spectacular seeing somebody like that. We need a Tiger King in pinball. I don't mean just the pinball game. We need a personality like that. There's got to be one out there. Yeah, I imagine there's got to be somebody. I don't know. Maybe that's something we need to lean into, Jeff. Next tournament we go to. I can be Joe Exotic, and you'll have to be what's-her-name. Carol Baskin. Yeah, can you pull that off? I got the face layer. I'm Joe Exotic. Nice try. I even have a tiger suit. Okay, yeah, you're right. All right, buddy. Good to talk to you, and stay safe, and hope to see you soon. Definitely. I appreciate it, Jeff. Thank you so much. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com, all your subscriptions, past episodes, and more. Check us out on Facebook. We're also on Twitter and Instagram, at pinballprofile. Email us pinballprofile at gmail.com. I'm Jeff Teoles.