Oh, that's so funny. But your videos are certainly something that have become part of people's regular routines. It's neat to see when a new game comes out or your kind of critiques, recent ones. You played Led Zeppelin, Ellie. You played Guns N' Roses, Ellie. And you had some interesting comparisons. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things that, you know, with Guns N' Roses, I kind of have like a love-hate relationship with it because I own a Guns N' Roses. And I was talking to somebody about this the other day, and I don't know if I've quite said this before on a podcast or on any of my videos or anything. But it's like I like the design by Eric, and I like the code by Kiefer, or I like when he's coding. It just feels like something for me is just disconnected when it's together. and I can't quite put my finger on it. I don't know if it's just the amount of multiball. I really don't know what it is. And I could, obviously, I'm in the minority. I don't want to take anything away from it. I mean, I get the emails all the time if I say something negative about Guns N' Roses. I mean, the fact is, there's no denying. It's definitely an awesome looking pen and it's affecting the industry in a positive way because there's a lot of people that bought their Guns N' Roses and they thoroughly enjoy it. But even with Led Zeppelin, my first instinct when I saw it is obviously I felt the way a lot of people felt that it looked bare. But once I got it and once I started playing it and once I started understanding the code more and I started finding where the shots were, I found myself. I played that more than any game in my in my home arcade. I mean, I just I could not put it down. And just hearing the music and just blowing the shots, it was just something I really enjoyed. And it kind of brought me back to the way like a solid state would play to where I can go from zero to 100 very quickly, especially if you wax down that play field and you're going. And I didn't really get that same feeling from Guns N' Roses where it felt like it was more of a slower build up. And then, of course, once you got into the music and the song, it got fun from there, you know, with everything blaring. But then at the same time, it was like having to deal with all those multiballs at the same time. That kind of was a drag a little bit. But it's it's just one of those weird things. I find myself, if I'm in single ball and the music is blaring on Guns N' Roses, my fun factor goes way, way up. And so that's what I'm trying to figure out, that balance. I don't know. Have you had a chance to play the Guns N' Roses before? I've played the pro and I've enjoyed it incredibly every time I've played it. The one thing I regret is that I haven't been able to watch it being played other than on streams. So there is kind of that loss factor, especially when multiballs are happening. and you mentioned that on your Marv Loco series, you kind of almost have to drain to figure out what's going on. And if you watch Carl's stream on IE Pinball, you'll certainly see it in depth and he explains it. And that helps me. But listen, I'm going to get it the more times I play it, but I kind of want to figure it out on my own if I can. And I'm having difficulty with that. I'm still having incredible loads of fun. But you were talking about the multiballs and it got me thinking. There are a lot of games that have multiballs, obviously. Some games have a lot more multiballs. Think of Indiana Jones, and when that arc opens up. Think of Apollo 13. And now even Heist has 15 multiballs. Well, to me, personally, there has to be a number where it's just too many balls. And I think those three examples are too many balls. I don't know what the sweet spot is, if it's three, if it's six. But I'll give you an example. On my Guardians you go into Cherry Bomb multiball which is very very important You got 60 seconds of ball save and you got targets to hit I purposely let several balls drain because there are too many balls in the way So six is too many for me. What do you think? No, absolutely. I fully agree on that. And I mean, you know, a lot of that, Jeff, could be just our mindset is that of a tournament player, that we know what shots that we want to hit. And usually we can hit those shots if we just have a couple of balls on a flipper. Whereas when it's just so chaotic going around, it's just it goes against all of our instincts that we built up in trying to stay under control and trying to hit a certain shot. But, you know, I feel like Guns N' Roses is probably Andre Massingoff's dream. I really do. I feel like that's probably like him and Andy Rosa. I can almost guarantee they probably love that pin to death. But it just I don't know. I told somebody the other day it almost feels like a Michael Bay movie to where it's awesome. the first chance you get it. It's pretty good the second time you do it. But then once you get to the third, fourth and fifth viewing, it's kind of like, OK, I need a break for a little while and then I can come back to it. So Guns and Roses is just one of those games for me personally that I feel like if I play it once a week, I thoroughly enjoy it. Like I'll have fun. It's worth my time to play it. But if I try to play every single day, I might tire out from it. You know, but the best thing that I can say about it that I'm happy with Guns N' Roses is the fact that my kids enjoy playing it. And it's got them involved in pinball. I mean, my son Carter, he just has a big old smile on his face every time he plays it. So it will have a place in our game room for a long time to come for that very reason. I mean, my family loves the game. You must have family settings on. All the songs aren't available in your household. So I accidentally... Uh-oh. I'm father of the year, and I accidentally left it on adult setting and subwoofers turned on and I'm downstairs. And all of a sudden I just hear like that. You guys effing rock just blaring through my house. And I'm like, what was that? I go up there and my poor son's just looking at it and looking back at me. He's like, I didn't mean to do it. I'm like, I know, I know it's your knucklehead dad that forgot to reset it on family settings. That's so funny. We were had Charlie Emery on our final round podcast that I do with Martin Robbins. And he was talking about getting licenses and getting things approved by now Warner Brothers, formerly Adult Swim, for Rick and Morty. And of course, there's a lot of different language on Rick and Morty, but you can set it to family mode as you would. And Warner Brothers doesn't quite understand that. Wait a minute. There's different settings and you can turn that off. So they're actually more concerned about things that were actually on their program that they didn't think would be good out in public or in the home setting. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, that's kind of odd because it's kind of like, I don't know, when I look at Rick and Morty, I would think you need it set the way Rick and Morty talk, you know, because that's like the whole entire thing. It just, that is interesting. In your Led Zeppelin and Guns N' Roses LE comparison, you and I both noticed the same thing. The upper right flipper shot to the ramp and Habitrail. One of the hardest shots in pinball. Yeah, it's insane. I feel like I'm a fairly accurate player when I want to be, but with that, it's by far the most difficult shot I've ever encountered on any pinball machine. But it's fun when you hit it, but at the same time, I've tried to find different ways to make it easier because I know how important that shot can be overall to the game. It adds five seconds to your multiplier once you activate Icarus too, And, of course, there are other shots that it's important for. And the code is, to me, the best thing about that game. You're right. The first look at it, the layout, okay, we've seen a lot of this before. There's a lot of similarities to other games, especially by Steve Ritchie. But the code is great. And the multipliers with the new code, wow. I mean, there's some big payoffs there. Oh, it's hilarious. Yeah, yeah. Does it nerf everything else in the game, though? or because it's such a short window of that, whether it's like Matthew Richardson did, 750 times play field multiplier. What they are doing is insane. I know him and Carlos, they're both trying to be the first person to get to 1,000. And it looks like it's a lot of fun. I mean, just today, literally today, Jeff, I decided I was going to try to do the same thing. So I played four games on Led Zeppelin. I didn't even break 10 million on any of the games. I was just like, what is going on? I put up a Monster 3.2x multiplier, though, so I was pretty proud of that. But yeah, it's just the rule set on it is outstanding. I really do enjoy the fact that you can get into a song and those shots are going to move no matter what you do. And I really do enjoy that because it feels like you can make progression. But at the same time, even if you're missing shots, you'll still get to a different part of the song. The shots will still move and you don't feel like you're ever stuck. And I think that's really what I enjoy about it. There's never that one shot where I'm like, OK, I got to hit this. Even if I start bricking one particular shot like that left eject, I can just turn around and just decide to, you know, to combo shots and then build up that multiplier just like you were talking about. So there's a lot of different options on there. And I think if people are looking at possibly playing the pen in the future, you know, you haven't got a chance to yet, really, whenever you do get a chance, look at the code, decide from there whether you like it or not, just because those songs, I mean, the songs are great. And when they're blaring and when the different shots are clearly visible to see, that's what's really rewarding. And that's kind of to me is where my comparison with Guns N' Roses comes from, because if I'm playing Guns N' Roses, yes, the light show is spectacular. Yes, it is great. But there's more times than not that I'm having to look at the screen to figure out where my next shot is while there's just total chaos going around. Where with Led Zeppelin, it's just such a better organic flow to where I know where this next shot's going to be. Then I know I'm going to flow it to this shot, and then I know I'm going to rip this spinner. I mean, I can't say enough. Tim Sexton and Raymond Davidson, they've done an excellent job with that code. Speaking of code, we're about to see new code on an old game. Haggis Pinball is now doing their classic series, and they're beginning by remaking Fathom. But not just the Fathom as you know it, but also a 2.0 code, complete with modes, multi-balls, wizard modes, ball save. I know you're excited about it. I'm excited about it, too. What's the feedback you've been hearing? You know, a lot of people are, especially locally, a lot of people are interested in it, interested to see what it's going to be. And, you know, it's funny, too. There's so many new people in the pinball hobby just this past year that the only thing that they are really familiar with is the modern game. So seeing something like this, that is definitely obviously a callback to a game that was made 40 years ago. And it's brought up to just being modernized, whether it's I mean, just the look of it, Jeff. Obviously, you saw I mean, that machine pops. It's a beautiful machine. And the idea of taking something that's just that classic layout and adding a new code to it to be able to play a different version of it nearly. I mean, that really excites me because I feel like that's something in pinball that I've been wishing would happen for so long to where maybe some of these machines don't necessarily need a super deep code. Maybe what they need is two or three different, basically different codes with them that turn the game completely upside down and make your whole gameplay completely different to where you're not stuck just doing the same thing over and over again. And that's what I'm really excited about Fathom. I know we were talking about it just earlier tonight, the fact that if we're playing Fathom, all we're really trying to do is just rip Spinner the entire time. and the fact that they are putting out a machine with that 2.0 code and it gives you something completely different to do with wizard modes, with modes. To me, that's exciting. As a pinball fan, that is very exciting, and I'm so happy for Haggis and for Marty down there being able to do something like that. I think that's excellent and that's great for the pinball industry. I think it's great. I've heard some people talk about the price, and I said, well, you know what? I think a year or two from now you're going to be looking going, that price was set just right. And if you buy that game and you decide to sell it, you're not losing a cent, like you can say about most new games, right? So the price is what it is. And I was talking with a friend online today, and, geez, that seems like a lot of money. And I'm like, really? People spent $500 on a Stern book. People spent $1,000 on toppers. You're getting a game with basically two games in it because of the Mermaid Edition. I think it's good value and a layout we already know we love. So there's no surprises. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, what I would say to people that are really worried about the price is that if you want to get an original fathom, it's still going to be forty five hundred, maybe even fifty five hundred dollars. I've seen some of them go for that price. Now, how much is it going to cost you just in sweat equity, not only, you know, hitting your wallet, but just in sweat equity to get that pen to play and to look like this pen that Haggis is putting out? because one of the things Haggis has is that play field, the dimple-free play field. And the pictures I've seen look excellent. And from people that have seen it in person, they all just rave about it. So there's certain aspects of that pen in general that I think is well worth the money. And if you love Fathom, I don't see how you couldn't get it. I mean, to me, it's great value. If you love the game, why not do something like that? I mean, oh, Jeff, we live in a world right now where people are paying out 30,000 plus dollars for a Pirates from Jersey Jack. You know, so. Yeah. So to me, it's like, you know, it's just the fun factor in it. You know, play, play the games you love to play. Enjoy the hobby you want, the way you want to enjoy it. Again, whether you're buying a top or whether you're buying the Haggis beam, whether buying a new in box machine, the value is what you deem it worth. Right. The market has dictated the price. It's not inflated by any of these companies or any of these products. The demand is there. And by limiting the supply, that also makes that price a lot more attractive, too. Absolutely. They have, to my knowledge, they have a pretty good following down there in Australia. And when you start dipping into games that are classics that every single veteran pinball player can really identify with, and it's the type of game that looks good to even new pinball players. I mean, it gets your attention when you see it. And when you read about the things that they've added on to it, to me, it just becomes a no brainer. I know for sure if I didn have to deal with the shipping which I not even sure what it would be for the classic edition but if it is here in the States I would have a very hard time not getting one of those I really would An up version that we have support for To me I very excited to see not just Fathom but the other games that they might have coming out potentially in the future I was at the Haggis factory and that playfield you were talking about, I took a hammer and I smashed the hell out of it and nothing could be done to it. And then I shot the game with that playfield in it and it felt fine. Every pinball machine is going to feel different. A Jersey Jack is going to feel different than a Spooky, than a Stern, than an old Gottlieb, than a Data East. It's just the way it is. It still felt like pinball. It's still flippers. The play field was absolutely fine. So I know Dr. John Koss, and I don't think I'm speaking out of turn because he's probably said it publicly, he received the first Celts game and unboxed it and showed it on his Emily and Dr. John Twitch channel. And he told me personally, he said, it's one of the finest builds of a pinball machine he has seen anywhere. And that's something that's been a topic lately for a lot of machines, the build quality. I know you and I have talked privately about concerns we've had about not just one, but a few companies and some of the more recent titles that have come out and the quality of the games. Is there a legitimate concern there? Because we're seeing it on Pinside, we're hearing it on channels like Marv Local and Kerry Hardy and others. What do you think's going on there? To me, it's one of those things that obviously pinball has grown and there's tons of machines that are going out And you have the human element of people working on the pins. But at the same time, I've absolutely I've had issues with several machines. And it's funny because when you are spending that much money, your expectations are that you just want the machine to work. You know, and so even with Ninja Turtles, like I'll freely admit, if anybody's watched my videos, you've probably seen behind me that I had a Turtles LE. And then one day it was gone. And one of the big reasons that diverter, I just could not trust it anymore. It failed on me so many times that I no longer could justify having a pinball machine in my room that cost that much money in which I was scared to play it. Now, conversely, the Pro, it's on location just 15 minutes down the road, and that bad boy is a workhorse. I mean, it is work. There hasn't been any issues with it at all. And that's kind of one of the things I've discovered. All my Stern Pros I have, they definitely work great. But when it comes to premiums and LEs, there always is something a little bit wrong that I might have to fix. And some of them are bigger than others, but it's not just Stern. I had the same thing happen with Hot Wheels in which I think it was a node board I had some issues with, but the American pinball people got right on it and they were excellent to deal with. And even the same thing with my Guns N' Roses right now, I'm having some issues with that as well when it comes to the scoop and the clear coat on it. And then also my disc is starting to just kind of break apart. And, you know, I don't know why that is. I'm not quite sure why pinball in general hasn't figured out how to just get that one pin that just has zero issues with it whatsoever, because this isn't just one company. You know, I've seen them all have all issues. I mean, we're talking, you know, Spooky, the Rick and Morty I've seen, you know, on location. It's had some issues and I don't know what it could be, Jeff. I part of me just wants to chalk it up. It's just the human element of things. And then the other part of me just wonders is if they're just trying to get these games out so fast that sometimes mistakes are just made. And then other times it's just acts of God. Like if I have a wire form that just randomly breaks because there's just too much force on it, you know, I don't. Whose fault is that really? You know what I mean? It's just sometimes pinball is just so physical. Those things are going to happen. And, you know, I kind of expect it nowadays. But at the same time, when it does happen, it's it's not a good feeling. When you buy a new in-box game, is the box going to your house or are you opening it at the distributors? You know, that's a tough one. I've gotten boxes, obviously, from Zach. I've driven up to Indiana to go get them, and I never have unboxed it right then and there. And that's kind of interesting you point it out because I know that there is some of my friends that have done that before. And, you know, to be fair, I've never had a game in which I've gotten new in-box that was just a complete lemon. So even with my Guns N' Roses having the scoop issue, it still played. Now, well, I say that the lights weren't coming on, and I was getting so frustrated that finally I just hit the side of the cabinet like the Fonz, and it did magically come on. I still have no clue how that happened. But, you know, overall, I don't know. That might be the right thing to do. But I've been very fortunate in games that have been shipped to my house or games I've picked up at the local dock in which there hasn't been any damage to the boxes. Now, I'll have to knock on wood. I've said that now. And probably the next one I get will undoubtedly have issues. But, yeah, I've I've seen some horror stories, though, from people that have received a new in box pen. And even when the machine looks like it's OK, the box looks OK. All of a sudden they open it up and there's something in there that's not OK. whether it's a bent lock bar or whether one of the legs is just broken off. I mean, I even knew somebody in which the trough was legitimately missing out of the pinball machine, which that was the damnedest thing to see. I'm fine with games not coming perfect or there are flaws here and there, or like you say, things, acts of God may break. Because if the service is there to help you with your purchase and give you that customer confidence you should have for spending that kind of money on a pinball machine, I'm fine with that. You know, if you look after the customer, that's okay. The game had an error? Okay, we'll write that one off, but let's get that error fixed. So that's why I asked about opening it at the distributors, because I would imagine, based on the volume of concerns I've heard over the last year, and maybe it's just the pandemic, who knows, the pinball companies are going to start to question the customer, and it's more expensive for them to fix a game after the fact than get it right the first time. So are they going to want you to open it at the distributor? Are you as the customer going to want to just make sure the distributor sees what you see before you take it home? Because who knows? The distributor or the pinball company can say, well, that happened in transit or that happened after the fact. How do we know? You almost need a third party there, in the case of the distributor, the middle person, to verify the machine you're getting. Absolutely. And I don't doubt that there are bad actors out there in which they might have did something to their pinball machine that they shouldn't have done. And then they claim, well, this is, you know, broke when I got it. But, you know, the one good thing that I can say about all these companies, and I'm speaking about Spooky, American Pinball, Jersey Jack and Stern. When you do have an issue and you get with them, they will typically get back to you as soon as they possibly can. Obviously, it's probably a little bit more difficult for Stern just seeing the volume that they do. And I imagine Jersey Jack is kind of the same way right now. But all those companies, they're usually pretty good about getting back to you and working with you. And that's why I would tell anybody that's listening to this, if you're thinking about getting a new pinball machine, definitely make sure that your distributor has you taken care of. I mean, those are questions that you'll want to ask before even ordering, you know, what's your support that you will give me before? And that's the one great thing that I can say about my distributor with Zach Mini is he anytime I have an issue and I've had, you know, several, obviously, with Ninja Turtles and Avengers of the Wire Form Breaking and all that. I've let him know and he's gotten on it immediately. And that helps so much when you do have a distributor in your corner going to bat for you and going to these companies. I mean, it really does pay dividends when you have something like that. So I would tell anybody that's looking at getting a new inbox, like make sure you have all that in order because it is a little nerve wrecking. It really is. When you put that much money on the line and you receive it, you want it to work. And obviously these companies, they want it to work too. None of us should get it twisted. These companies do not want to sell you lemons. They do not want to sell you something in here that you're having issues. I mean, that's devastating for them because that's just more money that they have to spend to fix it. So I think we all have the same goal in mind that we just want pinball machines that work. So I think that's the important thing to keep in mind when you do receive a pinball machine that might have an issue with it. Although I will say there are still some major issues out there that do get frustrating. Travis, it's always good to talk to you, and hopefully soon we'll see each other once again. You know, there are a lot of people that do their opinion pieces, whether it be on YouTube or on Twitch or they do podcasts. Those people are a dime a dozen. But you, you, sir, are a pinball unicorn. We talked about your two-time state champion in the two different states, one that I didn't even know exists. But also, I think you are the only person in the world I know who spent time at Joe Exotic's Tiger Farm. Oh, gosh. Yeah, yeah. And somebody needs to jump on that license, Tiger King pinball license. They're making a movie. Are they really? They're going to be making, oh, yeah, they're making a movie. They've already been casting it. Oh, don't tell me. Who's starring as Joe Exotic? I think he's a theater actor. I'm not familiar with his work, but yeah, it should be good. That's hilarious. Well, I can't wait to watch that. I'll be there opening night. Oh, of course you will. And I mean, they should consult you, too. I don't remember that. I don't remember the gift shop being like that. I remember him selling this and that. And there was kind of the smell of old pizzas and old meats. Oh, gosh. And I've known people that ate that pizza, too. Oh, they saw the Netflix show. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, there was legitimately there was a bunch of us in Oklahoma that have ate that pizza before. And we were not aware of that. Luckily, I wasn't one of them. I knew better. I know that when I go to a tiger safari in Oklahoma, you do not eat the food that is there. I know that. I've learned that living here all my life. You didn't try their grab bag surprise meal? No, I can't say that I did. I can't say that I did. I will say he's probably the most eccentric person I've ever seen, though. It was quite spectacular seeing somebody like that. We need a Tiger King in pinball. I don't mean just the pinball game. We need a personality like that. There's got to be one out there. Yeah, I imagine there's got to be somebody. I don't know. Maybe that's something we need to lean into, Jeff. Next tournament we go to. I can be Joe Exotic, and you'll have to be what's-her-name. Carol Baskin. Yeah, can you pull that off?