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Episode 17 - Joe Ciaravino discusses Python Anghelo / Shane goes to TPF!

Nudgecast·podcast_episode·1h 32m·analyzed·Apr 2, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Nudgecast 17: TPF coverage highlights Beetlejuice dominance, homebrew growth, and American Pinball transitional strategy.

Summary

Shane and Ian from Nudgecast discuss their Texas Pinball Festival (TPF) experience, covering highlights including Spooky's Beetlejuice (which dominated the show with 17 machines), homebrewing culture, and new releases like Chicago Gaming's Yukon Yeti and Jersey Jack's Winchester. They also discuss American Pinball transitional phase under new ownership and upcoming remakes including Cirqus Voltaire. The episode opens with a nostalgic discussion about music and includes an interview segment about Joe Ciaravino and Python Anghelo pinball history.

Key Claims

  • Spooky's Beetlejuice is a potential top-10 all-time game and Spooky's best release ever

    high confidence · Shane: 'I think I can honestly say that that game could be a top 10 of all time. I think it's like hands down their best game.'

  • Beetlejuice sold out before it was even announced

    high confidence · Ian: 'the game sold out pretty much before it was even announced'

  • Spooky brought 17 Beetlejuice machines to TPF with exceptional reliability (only one hood lifted all weekend)

    high confidence · Ian: 'I think I saw the hood get lifted on one of those 17 games the entire weekend... So they were all super, super reliable'

  • American Pinball is in a transitional phase under new ownership with strategy focused on clearing legacy inventory (Houdini 100th Anniversary edition) and pursuing remakes

    high confidence · Shane: 'I think right now they're going through a transitional phase... what assets do we have?... Can we get rid of 100 games?'

  • Kerry Hardy said 'Spooky's next game is their Godzilla' regarding Beetlejuice's commercial potential

    medium confidence · Ian: 'Remember, Kerry Hardy said this weird, uh, he was like, Spooky's next game is their Godzilla. That's what he said.'

  • Chicago Gaming's Yukon Yeti is a legitimate Whitewater sequel that does justice to the original

    high confidence · Shane: 'it does really do justice to the original Whitewater and in being a sequel'

  • Jersey Jack's Winchester is limited to approximately 500 units

    high confidence · Ian: 'There's only 500 or whatever the number is'

  • American Pinball plans to release a Cirqus Voltaire remake

    high confidence · Ian: 'Cirqus Voltaire was announced as well. That's coming. And the remake of that'

  • Homebrew games at TPF were more numerous than at any prior show, with high-quality examples like Big Trouble in Little China and Monster League Hockey

Notable Quotes

  • “I think I can honestly say that that game could be a top 10 of all time. I think it's like hands down their best game.”

    Shane @ ~23:45 — Strong endorsement of Beetlejuice as a potential classic and Spooky's best output

  • “I saw the hood get lifted on one of those 17 games the entire weekend... So they were all super, super reliable.”

    Ian @ ~24:20 — Speaks to exceptional machine reliability and Spooky's quality control at TPF

  • “It's smart of you, right? To kind of maybe not jump on it. But I think once Spooky kind of... The advantage that Spooky is going to have now is once they start stringing together a couple like now we have Evil Dead into this”

    Shane @ ~28:30 — Recognition of Spooky's emerging winning streak and competitive positioning

  • “What if it was like you got someone with like rock hard abs and it was like, punch, punch him in the stomach. And if they die, you win a Houdini.”

    Ian @ ~50:15 — Dark humor commentary on Houdini's death and American Pinball's marketing approach

  • “I think right now they're going through a transitional phase, like no question, right? And there's a new owner that came in and probably went, okay, like, what are, what assets do we have?”

    Shane @ ~46:30 — Analysis of American Pinball's current business strategy under new ownership

  • “it does really do justice to the original Whitewater and in being a sequel... That's high praise.”

    Shane @ ~35:45 — Strong endorsement of Yukon Yeti as a worthy sequel to a classic game

  • “For me, I want to be able to chain together like three and four shots in a row at least and do that stuff.”

    Shane @ ~42:20 — Articulation of personal gameplay preference preference affecting game design reception

  • “I think that game is underrated... Merlin's Arcade has really strong flippers and that game shoots awesome too.”

Entities

NudgecastorganizationShanepersonIanpersonSpooky PinballcompanyBeetlejuicegameAmerican PinballcompanyTexas Pinball FestivaleventYukon Yetigame

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Beetlejuice generated massive enthusiasm at TPF with sold-out pre-orders despite limited pre-announcement visibility. Spooky's 17-machine presence with zero reliability issues signaled confidence in product quality and market demand.

    high · Ian: 'the game sold out pretty much before it was even announced' and 'I think I saw the hood get lifted on one of those 17 games the entire weekend'

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball under new ownership is pivoting from original-theme games (GTF, Hot Wheels, Legends of Valhalla, Cuphead) toward classic remakes (Houdini 100th Anniversary, Circus Voltaire) to clear legacy inventory and rebuild credibility.

    high · Shane: 'they're in a real weird transitional phase' and 'what can we get rid of right now? We have some Houdini's... They can kind of leave, you know, the legends of Valhalla and GTF and Hot Wheels era... behind them'

  • ?

    community_signal: TPF 2025 featured record homebrew game presence with higher-quality machines and professional-grade design. Community discusses potential for dedicated homebrew festival.

    high · Shane: 'I think more homebrew games I think more than I've ever seen there and that was super cool too' and discussion of Big Trouble in Little China and Monster League Hockey quality

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Evident tension between 'tight shot' design philosophy (Winchester) and 'flow-focused' gameplay preferences. Players disagree on whether difficulty-through-precision or shot-chaining accessibility better serves pinball design.

    high · Shane: 'for me, I want to be able to chain together like three and four shots in a row' vs. endorsement of Winchester's innovative tight shots

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.275

0:00
Need a pinball machine? Another pinball machine? Maybe some fat accessories like a topper or a shooter rod? Yes, you do. Hit up Jeff over at Mad Pinball for the best products and service and use our promo code NudgeCast and get a free exclusive t-shirt when you buy any game. And you also get free shipping on any new in box Stern. So many great games are out right now. Go pick one up. Hit up jeff at madpinball.com and don't forget to tell them we sent you.
0:54
Hey everybody, you're listening to Nudgecast, the official podcast of Nudge Magazine. That intro music you're listening to right now is the song Fill in the Blank by the band Car Seat Headrest, which Shane, you informed me, Shane told of the band Silverstein and the Lead Singer Syndrome Podcast. Hi, I'm here. We've used that song before. I have a huge, I just love that song and it's on the first ever Nudge playlist that we made, which is like back in I think 2020 or 2021. And so I don't know, I've been like kind of, I'm getting back into that zone now that like Nudge 6 is just starting to come out and I'm going to be like sitting here for hours on end like filling it. You know, I'm pulling up some old playlists because I just have been curious about stuff. And it made me a little, yeah, it made me nostalgic. Well, that's the thing, I think, you know, when you get into your prime of your age, I'm saying that because I just turned 45, so I'm in prime age right now. But like, your old favorite songs are still your old favorite songs. You know what I mean? Like, you listen to them over and over again and you love them and like, I'm a musician so I'm surrounded by music all the time, especially a lot of new music. but there's something like there's nothing better than when you just put on that old record that like you listened to when you were a teenager or like in your early 20s that really spoke to you because it still will speak to you in your mid 40s like that is music like that is forever and that's a huge part of music i have a couple of those um like you're making me think about it because i'll actually use them for pinball like if i need to lock in um sometimes there's I'm a fan of the stuff that I used to listen to in my driveway that just like, dude, I must have had the nicest neighbors. I think about that because, um, that, and they weren't like right next to us, but like I would just have my boom boom box outside like, and put a like CD on like repeat for hours and then, and just like play it, like shoot hoops or whatever, but definitely like ill communication by the Beastie Boys was a, was a big one for me. And then kind of funnily, like there's some five iron frenzy, a Christian, a very like Christian Christian, Christian Skaban that I was all about. But like those kind of like I can listen to that now if I'm like in a tournament or something. It's a very like grounding, like emotionally, it's very like grounding for me and it kind of like helps me like I would get in a zone like listening, you know, even back then by myself like getting in a zone. So it can kind of bring me back there. I remember same thing, man, playing basketball with my friends like when I was like, I don't know, 14, 13, 14 and we'd have the boom box outside We just hoped that somebody would bring a new CD, so we didn't listen to Offspring, Rancid, those were two of the ones we had. Smash by Offspring and Out Come the Wolves by Rancid. We just listened to those records over and over and over again. Then one day somebody brought No Effects, it was like, oh, this band's cool. You know, and, and, but it's funny because you would, you would have just the limitations of, you know, of only having physical media. You just listen to the same shit over and over again and it was great and you didn't know any different, you know. You didn't know that in 30 years you were gonna have like everything in your freaking pocket, but hey, you know, that's where we are. The depth of that love was just so deeper than it is now because it was like you would, I would know every note, you know. That just like every like every note of like every instrument you know what i mean like like and it would like make you like it more and like really go down and the albums that you loved that you play like over and over and over again you just like have this crazy sort of i don't know like that it's it's tough now because you're right like i'm like you i'm i'm surrounded by new music all the time and there there are things that will like jump out to me um that rmfc band that we've played before and i i really like they're from australia but like i'll go back to that over and I'm going to go back and forth on this, but for the most part, a lot of those tendencies are left in your youth and left in your teen years. Yeah, 100%, man. Well, that's kind of appropriate, actually, for this week because we're going to be delving into some history talking to Joe Cervino about Python Angelo and his biography. Roman replacing Galil Mathieu on Boatman Video lists your top ten pinball tips for coming out in center 21.

high confidence · Shane: 'I think more homebrew games I think more than I've ever seen there and that was super cool too'

  • Christopher Franchi created the new artwork for American Pinball's Houdini 100th Anniversary edition

    high confidence · Shane: 'They had a couple of them there with the new artwork from Christopher Franchi'

    • Ian @ ~38:45 — Advocacy for overlooked Chicago Gaming title with positive setup remarks

    Jersey Jack Pinball
    company
    Winchestergame
    Christopher Franchiperson
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Big Trouble in Little Chinagame
    Houdinigame
    Cirqus Voltairegame
    Kerry Hardyperson
    Brad Dukeperson
    Monster League Hockeygame
    Godzillagame
    Evil Deadgame
    Fast Pinballcompany
    Friday the 13thgame
    Electric Playgroundcompany

    product_strategy: Beetlejuice's pre-announcement sellout reflects FOMO-driven buying behavior. Shane avoided pre-order without seeing game in person but later expressed regret, indicating secondary market pressure and collector anxiety.

    high · Shane: 'I didn't and then I didn't get one and now I'm like, damn' and Ian's observation of presales before announcement

  • ?

    design_innovation: Spooky continues innovation with features like magnet ball saves, auto-flipper modes, and scoops. Beetlejuice and other Spooky titles feature player-friendly surprises alongside challenging play.

    high · Ian: 'the Deo mode where the flippers like go by themselves... just like little things that they do to their games just put a smile on your face' and magnet save mechanics

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: American Pinball's reputation recovery underway but trust remains low due to GTF/Cuphead failures. New ownership and remake strategy viewed as pragmatic reset rather than confident innovation.

    high · Ian: 'Lucy with the football and I'm Charlie Brown... GTF, failed, failed cup head basically being almost liquidated... I'm very skeptical'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Winchester's tight shot layout and difficult playfield setup creating accessibility barriers at TPF. Some players struggled with control while others thrived, creating divided opinion on design merit.

    high · Ian on Winchester: 'some of the shots are kind of like butthole tight' and 'wire form return... shot that out like willy-nilly like out of control'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Christopher Franchi's artwork for Houdini 100th Anniversary represented effort to elevate legacy game aesthetics. Brad Duke's artwork for Yukon Yeti received mixed reception despite artist's reputable track record.

    high · Shane on Franchi artwork: 'new artwork from Christopher Franchi. Game looks great' and on Yukon Yeti: 'I just think for this, I don't know what I was expecting... that's maybe the only thing'

  • ?

    product_concern: American Pinball's Houdini 100th Anniversary edition showed poor setup at TPF (flat playfield, weak flippers, slow ball speed), undermining new ownership's credibility. Spooky's Beetlejuice showed exceptional reliability.

    high · Ian: 'the game wasn't set up properly. It was set up way too flat... you couldn't even... get up the ramps. The ball was floaty' vs. Spooky's track record

  • $

    market_signal: Beetlejuice scarcity and fast sellout creating strong secondary market demand. Limited production runs (Winchester ~500 units) combined with short delivery windows fueling collector anxiety.

    high · Ian: 'I'm sure if I had been a little more ahead of things, I could have got on a list' and Beetlejuice sold-out-before-announcement pattern

  • ?

    event_signal: TPF 2025 featured long lines for popular machines (Winchester, Big Trouble in Little China) and player engagement challenges. Spooky's 17-machine strategy addressed this by reducing waits.

    high · Ian: 'the lineups were extremely long' for Winchester; 'Big Trouble in Little China... had a massive line the entire show' vs. Spooky's multiple-machine approach effectiveness

    • 5:56
    We've all found our people and we're there and we're excited to find the new play the new games find a couple rare games you know chilling around with TPF they always have a great homebrew section and I think that's one of the huge highlights this year was there was a lot of homebrew games I think more than I've ever seen there and that was super cool too so yeah just a great vibe great show busy is always still some long lines but overall All I mean, yeah, great, great selection of machines and, you know, a couple of new games I hadn't played yet. Maybe we can get into like some of the specifics of the new games, but I did want to hit up the homebrew things that piques interest in me because that was also very true. We talked about that for like Expo. That was like by far their biggest like showing. And I just wonder how far we are away from homebrew, like having their own fest like homebrew fest or something like I think that would be so cool. I don't know if like I would like no Seattle has like one like there there's like one or two things to go up there but they could always use something else and I know Aaron from Fast Pinball is from there so I'm just throwing it out there like I know he is I don't know if he's an empty nester yet but he definitely just lost one kid to like going to college or the military or something so maybe he has some free time and he can do a homebrew fest because I think that would be pretty fun. It would be cool to do that and have like a, okay, this is going to be the flagship homebrew fest. So, you know, everybody brings the games that, that, you know, like the ones that have been working that we've seen for years. Like the one that comes to mind for me is Friday the 13th. That's like one of the best homebrews ever. And it's, it's been kicking ass for a few years now, but you know, maybe it's a great place for all the homebrewers to get together and be like, Hey, here's my game. That's like very much in the project stage. But like, you know, what advice can you give me? Like have, have like sort of a, a I'm a bit of a swap meet there for that stuff. Oh, definitely. And then have another section where the public can come, buy a ticket and check out some of the games. It's a little niche, but hey, yeah. Think about how cool that would be. I think, honestly, from a visitor's perspective, that's actually maybe one of the most relatable and cool things about pinball. You would be like, wow, all these games are one of one, and they're themes that you'll never see anywhere else. That's actually a huge, like that as opposed to like, look at how big this tournament is. Like, that's the one thing I would say is the one thing you really couldn't do that gets a lot of pinballers there is like, I don't think a competitive turn, you might just have to bring in some Sterns for the, for the tournament. Um, and they're in their own little section or something, but because I don't think, I don't think homebrews necessarily might not hold up to, and dude, imagine that'd be so sick actually, like a homebrew tournament. All the rulesets in those games are weird and no one would know them. And also some of them are super exploitable. Or they would just break mid-game. It definitely couldn't be IFPA sanctioned in any way, but it would be pretty funny. It could be cool though if somebody, you know, it was like, okay, all the tournament games, they're not homebrew games, but they're all crazy modded games. Like, you know, like, like things where they shouldn't be and, and like, you know, fucked up classics. So it's like, it's like you might've played this, whatever wedge had before, but you never played it with like, you know, these posts removed and like, actually that pop bumper's not there anymore. Dude, that's a really good call. Or like we have banana flippers on it or something like, uh, it's kind of like, um, like pinball Olympics a little bit mixed into this. Dude, that's a, that's a good, I think we just created, uh, on accident. All of these are the pinball shows that are going to be happening right now. The pinball festival of all time. Totally small and you would have seminars and stuff. I think Aaron would be really good at leading that. All kinds of stuff. People who have worked through that a couple times. Some of the games though, Big Trouble in Little China, that game had a massive line the entire show. The Biggest Homebrew. I know Kaneda's always on about that one. That's like his dream theme. That's a great game too. I've shot that one. Cool. I actually didn't get a chance to play it because the line was too damn long. But also Monsters Inc. was there, Spaceballs was there, the Pokemon Homebrew was there, which was kind of funny. Nice, yeah. Now that, you know, more people were playing the Stern Pokemon, obviously, but I thought that playing the homebrew was kind of funny and I actually really enjoyed the game, so. Oh, it's a great game. And didn't a kid make that game? Like, he's really young, I think. I actually don't know that. I don't, some of the, you know, a lot of times I play these homebrew games and I like, all I want to do is talk to the, you know, the maker, but sometimes they're kind of hiding out, I think. They want to be a fly on the wall, I think, and kind of hear what people are saying about the game, I think, when they're kind of watching in the background. At Expo, they do a good job making them be kind of like front and center with their game. So, but yeah, I'm pretty sure the guy who made that game is like in his mid-twenties, maybe. So I think that's a really impressive game. And yeah, I did get a chance to play Big Trouble in Little China at Expo, and it's a great, I mean, it's like fully professional. It's got art from like multiple pinball artists and stuff. And the other, the other, like it's, it's a homebrew game that's sort of slid into, I think they're going to make this game. It had its own booth and that's Monster League Hockey, which is, you know, the two player head to head game, similar to if you've ever played joust. Um, if you find a working one, that's amazing. Cause there's not very many that I've found that, that work properly. And that was a good time too. You know, um, I really respect the, innovation there and i was just thinking about like sourcing all the parts and stuff for that like you're not just making a play field that's a standard size and like standard glass and all that like all this different stuff they have to do to make that game must there must be a lot going into it but it played it played awesome and it looks awesome too they did use a base game um of some kind i i don't remember what it was but i think that that is actually a reskin a little bit i mean they've done their own thing but um it's not just but i think there's another two-player There's a hundred and thirty five percent Spe caps in this thing. So, if you're looking to sell fish, this is where you are, you got to let this one right Yeah. Brought in a lot of different people. Game looks great and it's got a really cool vibe and like there's a cool story and everything about it looked awesome in person. So yeah, that was exciting to see just some innovation like that. For sure. And we could chat about some of the other new games that were released. It was my first time playing Beetlejuice. Spooky went above and beyond. They had 17 machines, which was great because sometimes there was no line. You could just walk up and play one. Wow, yeah, that's nice. And that was nice. So I played that game more than any other game and I fell in love with it immediately. You liked it, right? Yeah. I think that game is awesome. Some of the really cool innovative things they have that they continue to do, whether it's you miss the skill shot and it goes in the out lane, but then it's good magnet saves the ball. Yeah, yeah. Things like that, or the Deo mode where the flippers like go by themselves. Just like little things that they do to their games just put a smile on your face, like give you those kind of like fun pinball moments. Not to mention it just rips. Like the game is a great shooter. It's fast. It plays fast, which is great. Yeah, yeah. It's fast, it's flowy. There's a lot of different modes. There's a lot of shit to do in the game. The three scoops didn't bother me actually. I kind of like the scoops in the game. So all in and the game looks amazing. And you know what? I think I saw the hood get lifted on one of those 17 games the entire weekend. Oh, that's cool. So they were all super, super reliable. So I think that if I had to pick like a game, you know, the bell of the ball, so to speak, best in show, I would say I'd have to go to Beetlejuice. Hands down. To quote Michael Scott, da bella da ball. Nice. Yeah, I just actually played some Beetlejuice at LIT yesterday. Yeah. So I had a really good time on it. I think, yeah, I weirdly have good games on there because I think actually my, the first game I ever played on there was 683 million, which is still- Yeah, that's crazy. That's still on the board at LIT, although it had been beat. and what got a Billy on it at lit which is crazy yeah that is pretty crazy that but we have like we got some real good players there but yeah I and I even had a couple like two or three hundred million games when I was when I was playing yesterday but I think it's yeah it's really flowy it's fast the artwork obviously is amazing and just really I know I've talked about this before but what always takes me is like how beautiful the lights are I mean the light shows great but also like the light up sign you know and it just It just really integrates theme-wise like really, really well. So yeah, that's cool you got a chance to play it and 17 is crazy. So I forget, do you have one of those on order or no? I don't. I was not able to get one. I mean, you know, the game sold out pretty much before it was even announced. Yeah, for sure. And you know, I'm sure if I had been a little more ahead of things, I could have got on a list or whatever but I feel like it's good to see a game before you put down 5 figures? You know? For sure, yeah. That's, I mean, sorry, you know? But I didn't and then I didn't get one and now I'm like, damn, that's, that like, that game is, like, it's early but I think I can honestly say that that game could be a top 10 of all time. I think it's like hands down their best game. Yeah, it is their best game. Yeah, it really has like, it really has a great feel. I don't think it's crazy to say that. I think that was the one. Remember, Kerry Hardy said this weird, uh, he was like, Spooky's next game is their Godzilla. That's what he said. Yeah. I think he might not be wrong. I think he was kinda right. No, I mean, that's a weird way to say it. And I think I kind of nailed his, uh, his Texas accent there, but, uh, pretty good. It is definitely like their biggest hit. It's not their Godzilla because they didn't, they're not going to make like 20,000 copies of it the way Godzilla is made. So in that way it's not. It is definitely like a huge hit for them. It's awesome and I'm glad it works. It seems like it's overall holding up on location at the few locations that have got it so far. So that's awesome. And that was always the thing with Spooky. I actually don't blame you for not jump... It's smart of you, right? To kind of maybe not jump on it. But I think once Spooky kind of... The advantage that Spooky is going to have now is once they start stringing together a couple like now we have Evil Dead into this, David Van Es, Pinball Machine, Knapp Arcade, Raydaypinball Podcast, Zach Meny, Scott Danesi, David Van Es, Pinball Machine, Knapp Arte, Jeff Teolis, Jeff Teolis, John Popadiuk, Tim Kitzrow, Mirco Playfields. And for those of you who have watched the last two episodes, remember to check out the YouTube channel for all the full content. I'll be back with more of the same stuff. And with that, thanks for watching. And I'll see you guys next time. Bye! from your upper playfield and it's got yeah that that bouncy ramp on the left just like the original whitewater and yeah i waited in line to play this one for quite a while and it was a fun game um didn't blow me away i thought it was a fun shooter i thought the flippers were maybe feeling a little spongy at that point okay that's what i'm worried about because that's a game just getting wrecked yeah true but if it's anything like whitewater you You need the flippers to work. Yes. And I think they probably are because I know Merlin's Arcade has really strong flippers and that game shoots awesome too. I think that game is underrated. But with Yukon Yeti, no, it's fun and the big mech where you shoot the balls and it climbs up the whatever that's called was a really fun moment. And yeah, overall it's campy, it's a lot of fun. It does really do justice to the original Whitewater and in being a sequel. Okay. Wow, that's high praise. Yeah, yeah, it does. I think the things I'm not a fan of is I was not a huge fan of the art, I think. That's maybe all I can say about it is I didn't love the art. I think... You don't have to... That doesn't have to be all you say about it. You can say more. Say more, King. Well, the first two games, I thought that the art style worked. All of these are great games. I'm not sure who does art. They have an in-house guy maybe, but for this game... It's Brad Duke who does it. Brad Duke. Brad Duke's a super nice guy. I've met him before. He does some cool work. He's also worked with Spooky on some stuff. I think he was the guy who did Scooby Doo. I'm pretty sure. Okay. That game looks great. I just think for this, I don't know what I was expecting. I don't know what I wanted, but that's maybe the only thing. I know that this is a game that's going to be a little bit more fun. I think it's going to be a little bit more fun. Walter L DX technicalestial Picasso Windows 7. I posted some pictures of it to the Nudge Instagram stories and I was getting a lot of, uh, it seems like a game built for furries response. And I was like, it's kind of a weird choice when you look what, like even the Yeti topper, you know, and why does, so is the Yeti a guy or a girl? It's a guy, right? I don't know. I think it's a guy. They, them, I don't know. Maybe there are... Oh, dude, good call. Nice. Very, very, very true. And you know what? And maybe this is my gendered take on this whole thing, but the Yeti has like winged eyeliner. Like, you know how like girls in like 2016 were like doing winged eyeliner? It has like... I'm like, am I supposed to want to fuck this Yeti? So... You're attracted to what you're attracted to, Ian. It's fine, man. It did stir something ancient inside me and you know perhaps holy uh definitely sacred but i agree with you it felt like a weird choice for me as well usually like i i dig uh brad duke stuff this one did feel also like yeah just i mean dude just go like if you're listening to this like go google it and like just look at the cab art and i'm just like i don't know guys like maybe we need some different art direction on some of this stuff so it's okay though that's yeah and i agree with that but i i do really like what I really like all their games and I gotta say one more time I think Merlin's Arcade was like a lot of people skipped over that game and I think that game is actually pretty cool. I would love to play that. There actually was one on location for a little bit in Minneapolis. I don't know if it still is but I should figure that out. And Winchester, I gotta mention that too. I had played it before, so I wasn't super stoked to line up, but a lot of people were, let me tell ya. They only had two on the floor the lineups were extremely long When I did line up for it Here the thing when you at a pinball show if you see the guy in front of you wearing gloves get in a different line just get in a different line I don know who he was but he I mean he put up a grand champion score and I waited for like you know he like a 20 minute game on it and then uh then what was the that you can always tell from appearances because then the next guy after him beat his grand champion score Before Oh shit, okay. And broke the game so then I had to, you know, then we had to wait and so, you know, but um, but yeah, and you know, Winchester has this, this like, oh this game is really hard, you know, everyone's talking about this. I think that's true up to a point. I think some of the, some of the shots are kind of like butthole tight, but um, I also think that, you know, once you kind of figure out the way to play the game and, um, and Some of the strategy, I think it can be a bit of a long player actually, and I saw that firsthand. But yeah, I think it's a great game. There's lots to do in that game, lots to explore, some very cool shots, the game looks great, shoots great. Cannot say anything negative about it, except I just wish they brought more than two. But I mean, there's only 500 or whatever the number is. Yeah, you had one 250th of all those games in existence there. That's right. Look at that amazing mental math. Yeah, I mean, I am one of those people who thinks it's a little bit tight. You actually, and maybe I shouldn't even say this because we were just coming off David Van Es on here, which we love. I do like the game a lot. When I sent a picture to you of us playing the Big Lebowski and you're like, I think that game's overrated. I honestly feel like, I think the flow of Winchester is a little overrated. I don't think it's very good. I mean, or at least I can't find the shots. It feels pretty clunky to me and some of the things it was like the wire and this is maybe just like they have to get theirs dialed in a little more but I will say it's really good they have two techs out pretty much at all times um but like the wire form return from the one shot that goes into the upper flipper and it kind of gives you a wire form return like a lot of the times it kind of just like shot that out like willy-nilly like out of control and um that's really frustrating in a game where already you're kind of We have a lot of people that are kind of struggling for control because of how the flippers are set up and also just like very dangerous outlane situation, which they give you the kind of like repeated, you know, outlane return on the left side. But yeah, so for me, that was like a game where I feel like people really been creaming their jeans over it. I like it a lot. I think, you know, all pinball is kind of good pinball to me, but yeah, I as far as like between that Beetlejuice, Pokemon, all that stuff, like I, That's been the hardest one for me for sure. Yeah, and I totally understand that take. But you know, I think like, we need to have different kinds of pinball games. You know, I think the hardest game that I've played recently is Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. That game was absolutely brutal. I mean, I also, it was also set up, I think with no ball save on the version I played on. So that was also part of it. But that game is brutal and has like pretty much no flow, I think. Word. David Van Es, Pinball Machine, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams,
    26:43
    I'm a slow beast for days, you know what I mean? And so that was like, you're right, like maybe there's just something that is like, for me, I want to be able to chain together like three and four shots in a row at least and do that stuff. So yeah. No, no, no, no question. And speaking of tight shots, they did have the Houdini from American Pinball, the 100th anniversary edition. They had a couple of them there with the new artwork from Christopher Franchi. Game looks great. I think American pinball games are pretty solid, and I actually don't mind GTF. But this game, man, it was just such a shame that the game wasn't set up properly. It was set up way too flat. Like, really, really slow to the point where like you couldn't even, like, I don't know, maybe the flippers were dying too. Like you couldn't get up the ramps. The ball was floaty and yeah, like I would have just loved to see that game set up to be able to be ripped. But yeah, I think I walked away after ball two, unfortunately, on the Houdini. No offense. But I did see Nick and the other guys from Electric Playground were there. They've kind of now entered the American pinball zeitgeist. And I expect some big things, I think, from that company. Circus Voltaire was announced as well. That's coming. And the remake of that, which I think pretty much everyone loves that game, especially I don't know if you're a circus, circusy, freaky guy, but uh... I'm not a huge circus Voltaire guy, but I mean, uh, that's cool. I know people that it's their favorite, favorite game. Multiple people that would say it's their, their absolute favorite game. So I think that that's gonna be, I think that's gonna sell real fast, and especially with the price to get an old one. So um, I think it's a good remake, and I, I think American Pinball makes solid games, so... It doesn't feel like a cohesive thing right now to me. Like I'm really interested to see where they kind of go because right now what they're doing is they're like mixing a bunch of different kind of like you got some meat and some veggies and stuff and whatever but it's all just like it's not really I don't know like I think I love the electric playground guys and like I think Nick's a genius. I don't love doing circuit I hear what you're saying like it's some people's favorite game. I'm not really clamoring for it and I think like kind of like We're gonna see. They just like, the guys new to pinball who runs the company, um, hope that they do good stuff. I'm just like, I don't know, dude. Like for me, it's kind of like, like Lucy with the football and I'm Charlie Brown. Like, am I gonna like be like helly? Like go, I don't know, dude, we're going off like GTF, failed, failed cup head basically being almost liquidated. And then like now we're at this point. Like, yeah. And you tell me, right, that the Houdini thing set up whack, and I'm like, yeah, that kind of like tracks with everything I know about them. So I'm just like, I'm very skeptical is where I'm at. I think right now, though, they're going through a transitional phase, like no question, right? And there's a new owner that came in and probably went, okay, like, what are, what assets do we have? Like, do we have a pile of fucking Houdini's around that we need to, like, get rid of? How can we do that? You know, can we get rid of 100 games? Like, maybe that was part of the thinking. You know, I think Circus Voltaire is like a very safe bet to be a remake. I think that if they can get the rights to that, okay, cool. And then, you know, I think that that will hopefully bring them to a new era where they're making new games that are hopefully games people want. And then they can kind of leave, you know, the legends of Valhalla and GTF and Hot Wheels era. All of these are kind of behind them a little bit. And I think that that's what they're ultimately trying to do, but I think right now they're in a real weird transitional phase. That's interesting. I, yeah, you're probably right about that in terms of like they had, they're like, what can we get rid of right now? We have some Houdini's or like that's what we can run right now. And then they got like Franchi, Franchi maybe had some like art that they hadn't used for it or something like that. So that, but that was weird. Even that was weird to me because it was like the hundredth anniversary of his death. I'm like, I mean, I guess that's kind of how you do it, but it feels kind of morbid. I actually, I came up with an idea that I think would have been a better promo.
    31:07
    Maybe they could have moved some units in honor of because, you know, the thing with him, right? That he like got punched in the stomach when he wasn't ready. And that was like how he died. What if it was like you got someone with like rock hard abs and it was like, punch, punch him in the stomach. And if they die, you win a Houdini. I'm just throwing, I don't know, I mean, like everyone would sign consent forms and ideally no one would win a Houdini, right? Win-win, your guy lives and nobody gets a Houdini. Let me tell you one thing though, I think this is important. So American Pinball had a QR code on the Houdini where they were going to give away one of the games, right? For like a raffle. The rules were like it was free to sign up and whatever and then at the end of the show at like 2 p.m. They were going to announce the winner. So
    32:03
    they call a guy's name and They can't find him so they go okay like we you know the rules are you got to be here You got to be here So they waited and they waited and they called his name and his friends were like we're trying to find him So they're like well we got to move on you know, so they yeah, they call another name and this lady won Podcast, Berge Demes kindergarten student, 0 pagar, är arrogant, twinp workflows, vroom. The solution was there is they both take a punch to the stomach and who takes it better? Like they get the game? They should, we should, they should have had a punch off, right? You can laugh. First one down doesn't get the game. Sorry. I'm trying to get ab punching into pinball. I'm trying to shoehorn it in any way. I'm feeling goofy today, guys. Okay. Well, on that note, that's awesome. Did you have anything else from TPF that you wanted to... No, I think, I think I probably missed a couple things, But overall, great show, great people, a lot of fun, just a good vibe there. And Ian, next year, you're coming. I'm coming to Expo and you're coming to TPF. We're going to do it. Ian Smith That sounds good. Yeah, we've covered it before. I mean, Eric covered it, I think in issue three, maybe. But yeah, I would love to come down. People always ask me every year if I'm coming. So yeah, maybe 2027 is the year. Well, that's crazy to think 2027. So yeah. All right. Alright, well, hey guys, stick around. We have Joe Cervino coming up, who is going to give us his breakdown of the issue 6 feature, A Hagiography of Python Angelo.
    34:41
    Our next guest is a writer, photographer, and works in the TV and film industry in Toronto. These days he's a stalwart of the pinball community, both as an active player and as the founder of the Pinball Degenerates, one of the most active and fun pinball communities on social media. This led him to create the Degenis, which is also probably, and I say this as someone who just worked on the Twippies, the best award show in pinball, where he is the sole Judge and jury. He's also the author of the feature in Nudge 6 and an expert on Python Angelo. Please welcome to the show Joe Cervino. Hey, Joe. Yes. Joe, what's up? Hey, everybody. Thanks. Ian, we're outnumbering you. We got two Canadians to one American right now. This is great. This is great for our CanCon rules for any Canadians listening that know what that is. The CRTC would be very happy. That's right. Can we win a Juno for this? Possibly. We're going to go ahead and get started. We're going to get started. We're going to go ahead and get started. Yeah, we're going to get started. I'm just hoping we can get some money, a grant from the Canadian government or something. Hey, you never know, man. They hand that shit out like candy. It's beautiful. Absolutely, yeah. It's a beautiful thing. Also, the best head of hair on this podcast, too, which is always saying something. Wow. I love when someone alpha dogs us with the hair. I know. It's too bad there's not a video. I tie my hair back. I feel like I should be carrying a leather briefcase around or something. People can't see this. But yeah, I know Joe, your hair looks great, man. You got... Joe Kaminkow, It's like superhero hair. I know. It's crazy. Joe Kaminkow, Thanks. I just woke up like this. Wow. Pretty good. Must be nice. Joe, so yeah, the reason you're on, I mean, we like a lot about you. We'll get into who you are in general, but also, you wrote the art... I mean, you wrote basically what became several articles for Nudge because you were sort of I'm kind of obsessed with the person that I also really like in pinball, Python Angelo. Could you just kind of maybe tell people about that project and maybe even who kind of Python is? Sure. You know. Was. Or was. Yeah. So Python was a very larger than life character who unfortunately left us far too soon. I believe he passed away in 2014, almost 12 years ago, actually, in April. Yeah. At the time, he was considered like one of the greatest, I think he still is one of the greatest artists of pinball of all time. And he was just a mad maniac dreamer. He made some enemies for sure, but most people, in retrospect, I think in retrospect, they I realized how much of a genius he was and how passionate, especially how passionate he was about pinball, making it and considering it an art form onto itself from everything, not just the artwork, but the design process, the code, the storytelling, the narrative design, the creation of a world under glass. These are things that Python really fought tooth and nail for. And to give designers, not just the artists, but designers and coders and significant people,
    38:01
    the mechanical engineers even, credit on the games, actual credits like a movie. Because he considered like a pinball machine to be as much of a collaborative art as like filmmaking. And that's something that I gravitate, that's very much something I gravitate towards Python's passion as a filmmaker Or lapsed filmmaker, let's say that.
    38:22
    And someone who really just appreciates a narrative construction and the collaboration of so many different fields and disciplines, not just artistic, but like technical and, you know, design elements that are very mechanical oriented, but all are part of the form and function of what makes a successful game. And, you know, Python was, Python was like, he loved, he had like his favorite themes and stuff that in his life, but he always believed that a great game, no matter what the theme would sell the product, like, the reason, like he had this like thing that he got from his father is like, if you make the best soup in town, people will always buy your soup because it's the best soup. Not because you have a better marketing team or anything. The soup sells itself. So in the same way, he felt that pinball should sell itself, it should be the It's not just the main thing. The reason why you buy it's not because of it's any kind of other tangential thing which helped for sure in marketing but yeah, ultimately, if a game is good, and it will stand the test of time it doesn't doesn't need that. Absolutely. And I think you know, maybe we should talk about some of his games. First, for people that are coming in being like, What? What did this guy actually do? But the one that jumped to mind right away? For me, a game that I own is fish tails, a game that sold really, really well. Yeah, you talk about a theme that is like, you know, it's a fishing game, like it, you Well, come on, I know there were some great fishing video games early in the 90s and stuff like that as well, but this game is awesome because of all the little things in the game that are so much fun. And there's a reason why that game has been such a success and people still love it. And that's just one of his games. I mean, Pinbot was a huge game, like one of the biggest pinball games ever. So, yeah, talk about a few of his other themes too, his book that he did artwork and game design with. Sure, absolutely. I mean, like, again, you said Fishtails, it would be impossible for me to consider any, like, even the small boutique companies out there to even consider just doing a generic fishing game. It's called fishing? Right. Like, that's the concept. It's just fishing. That's it. Like, that's it. Like, saltwater, freshwater, tropical fishing. That's the three different kinds of fishing you get, and that's it. And it's an amazing game, and it's got the humor of the game. I think that really a lot of it comes from a lot of the history of Fishtails officially is that it comes from people who are passionate about fishing. Like Mark Ritchie, the whole idea came from like a fishing trip, you know, and like it came from a real experience. And I think people identified that because people, a lot of people fish and you know, they understand the humor and the concept, you know, the water skiers, video mode is hilarious, you know, it's great. It's the best, best video mode ever. Absolutely, which is kind of a rip off of a game called, I think it's called Beachhead, but whatever, we won't, it's like, it's a great classic arcade game, but they took that and they adapted it in a really funny way with humor, you know, destroying these water skiers and stuff. Python, Python, Python was really good on selling people on it just through his art, like that's a really great point, it's like, it's leaning, the art gives that game its personality, like when you talk about like, if you said generic fishing theme, like it kind of almost Tim Kitzrow, Director of Photography, The You're right, it is that, but when you see it through Python's eyes where it's really, the fish are sort of anthropomorphized, there's a lot of humor and just like, he injected himself into all his games. Let me just run down a bunch and we'll talk more in depth about different ones. Sure. So just to say, Pat McMahon did the main art for Fish Tales, but it was the inspiration This is the story of Python. It was his story that really kind of imbued into that started the ball rolling. That's what I'm talking about. It seems like the thing about Python and like, you know, obviously so much of this happened so long ago, a lot of it has been passed down through stories, right? And, you know, someone's credit on a game, it's like, well, what did they really do? Right? Sure. And I'm sure you, being an expert, Joe, you know all those little stories and you've done the homework. All of these are very interesting games, but it's really interesting to me just that it seemed like Python did so much more than just like, hey, here's an art package. It seemed like, you know, when you talk about high speed, which is another incredible game and a very high selling game, one that he worked with Steve Ritchie on, another, like you said with Mark Ritchie in the fishing story, this is a story about Steve Ritchie getting pulled over by the police. And then for them to just conceptually work these games out, being like, this is what the game's gonna do, this is what the art's gonna do, and tie it all together, it's just so much cooler than when you just hear like, okay, yeah, this is the concept, here's the art, and what IPs we have to deal with. It's just, I love that so much about that era of pinball. Python Angelo was like a spiritual pinball wizard. He was like, he basically, he was what you, I guess, like a project manager, I guess, kind of thing. In a weird, messed up way. Like he was making, he was there to make sure that the vision really got, like a director, you know, which he truly identified with, I think, for a lot of things, like with Steven Spielberg, with George Lucas. Like he totally identified with those creative people who really got the big picture. Now, something like George Lucas, did he design Jabba the Hutt? No. But he looked at like a whole bunch of different designs of Jabba the Hutt and picked that's the one. That is Jabba. That's the one, the idea I had. So in the same way, Python Angelo kind of was like the, had the great vision of the pinball machine. And yes, he did a lot of the art for sure, but he was also responsible for making sure that the project as a whole was cohesive and it told a story and it really And so, you know, it's a great, it's a great show. And it had a great impact for his audience, you know? Which is funny because of the dichotomy of that with his personality and how stressed out he made everyone, you know, with basically everyone that he worked with that sort of was a responsible adult that we have all these stories in the, in the article, right. About, you know, talk about his relationship, like, let's say with Steve Kordak, like, who is Steve Kordak? And kind of, can you describe the relationship that that Python had with him? Yeah. So as far, I mean, again, I never, I never, I never, I never, I never, I never, I never I mean, again, I never met either of them. They passed away before I could meet either Steve Kordak or Python Angelo. But from all accounts, you know, there was a highly antagonistic kind of relationship between Steve Kordak and Python because Steve Kordak was from the old school, literally had designed the orientation of flippers at the bottom. He had just, you know, he had made his bones like 50 years before he had even met like Python Angelo. Isn't that wild to think about? Like that in within these generations, like that person. Right, yeah, sorry, go ahead. And so like, you know, he had gotten his cred and he had like sort of a bit, as much as Steve Kornack was a wonderful person, he had a bit fossilized ideas of what's going to work in pinball and what doesn't work. Because he had been through so many years of seeing what works and what doesn't, right? And that's understandable. But Python was like an insane maverick and he just would not let people tell him no. And it was like, you know, a solid object versus a movable force kind of thing where they both had very, very strong opinions about pinball. And, you know, it was like the old school versus the new school and really coming into conflict. And it was a generational thing for sure. And some of it was kind of personal I think And Python did make his enemies He did make enemies for sure like I said and and some of the most of them I would say in most cases probably it on python for being a little too zealous and starting those antagonisms but he an he an artist I mean that kind of the the the and and and the thing is like I see someone like Steve Kordek as a character in this story and it like they sort of the buttoned up like sort of a 1960s madman kind of guy you know what I mean where it like you you a little more So the more, like, Hey, keep it together, do what you wanna do on your free time, but like, whatever. Right. And Python kind of being like, I live this, I die by this, like, this is a... I put everything of me into this thing, and so it is just that clash of styles. Created, like, awesome games too, like the yin and yang of that, it kind of feels like maybe... Sure. When Python gained enough of his own sort of, like, power within pinball, to kind All of these things are kind of dictate terms like after he left Williams, which we can get into. But seems like some of that might have hampered some of his output because he almost didn't have that strong pushback of someone like Steve Kordak to kind of like do those things. Yeah, you've got thesis and antithesis, right? And you create a thesis, like, you know, like you have a yin and yang, you have like two opposing forces, the very much, you know, this is going to work, this has worked before, we know that this works versus like, let's try something different. Let's break the mold, let's, let's reassemble the pieces and like make something crazy. And, and I think that that's, that really works great in terms of like, you know, forming a really cohesive, you know, final product that is marketable, but also innovative, unique, artistic, I think all parties are happy. When Python kind of went off on his own and went to Capcom, all those restraints, all those people who were the steadier hands, there was no guardrails for Python. I think his radical ideas, while noble, and I think he still, again, he didn't care about making money, really. He just wanted to make great games. And I think, you know, when you talk about art and commerce, they're always going to be intertwined, no matter what art form you're talking about. Photography, film, even, you know, the Renaissance painters, which who Python 100% emulated, Da Vinci, Michelangelo, all Raphael, all the great Renaissance painters. You can see the work and the really kind of fundamentals of anatomy and the design of composition and how people are posed and foreshortening of figures and hands and depth of the human figure and animal especially. You see that 100% from like the Renaissance. And then it's mixed in with this weird surrealistic Salvador Dali, you know, bizarre, you know, fun little, you know, plays on images and forms that Python was always so great at doing in his private life too. Yeah. But part of why he's, I like his art so much too is because it's not always the same. Oh yeah. Like there, you could look at two games and you would never know, you know, that, that, I don't know, just take, really take any two examples. Like, police force is totally different from like, I don't know, taxi or high speed, you know, totally different world, totally different look, approach, even Bugs Bunny's birthday ball like that. Right. He had so much respect for the original, you know, Warner Brothers animation, you know, the Chuck Joneses of the world that he was not going to like reimagine it in a Python way. He was going to try to keep like, they didn't even have to tell him to stay like true to like the character designs. He was just self-disciplined enough to really, really pay as close attention to detail the line weight and just all this other stuff that the characters, to make them look as true to the original cartoon as possible. So he really respected a lot of these kinds of IPs that were, to him, evergreen. Yeah. Well, there's nothing more evergreen than Bugs Bunny. I hope so. I mean, that's, but you know, I guess like, also what's so interesting too about this guy, right, is how all you hear about is these like drug fueled alcohol binging, like bring in cough syrup to lunch at work stories. And really the only reason this guy didn't get shit canned like anyone else would is because this talent was just on another level. And everybody at Williams just was like, we have to put up with this guy. This textコМЕНА schautavett Vocês는데 в описании ! and it was like not only is this guy making incredible art at every step of the way but also he's a visionary of the games and it's like they had no choice but to keep him around. Go ahead Ian. Well he was a rock star coming in. That's I was just going to shit on your whole supposition there because it was like he was from Disney. Just say that. Can you just say that? Can you just start over and just say he was a rock star coming in and I'll cut it in perfect? He was a rock star coming into this hobby. Like he was from Disney and was like, you know what I mean? Like he had that pull. It was someone with pull coming in. So it wasn't just like someone coming in from a rando spot. Like I think he kind of, like he got to dictate a little bit more, I think even right off the bat. Which was cool because he really used that juice, it feels like to me, to advocate for You have to have it. ZACH BENYCHILDS, M.I.C. GENERAL, R.O. K. GENERAL LOWER BASKETBALL AND HIGHLIGHTS Joe, you talked about getting people's names on machines, getting credit for things was very important to him. He was such an... He used his weight not just to get away with shit, but I think to push towards a more artist-friendly or at least artists-having some equity. Even not just artists, but designers and engineers and people like that to get a little bit more об goodies ок 피�ingly의 괜찮은데요. So I don't know who the parents of the children of the writer of Satan depthin' no man can be, but the thing seems to be idee that they give themselves to is so very is true, that in public speaking segreg, although that doesn't necessarily apply to, why children would feel wrong is Unfortunately we're still in�� envisioned also not being allowed to write an audio or show some of our was really considered ist qualify thing in this dig, basically because ofuty. I think it's absurd to say off about it. have to. and we want to have credit in the same way and I 100% Python Angelo advocated for that and and he was he wasn't like a child prodigy like he was a very talented extremely curious extremely disciplined artist like he was very much about learning the fundamentals like again learning from the old masters I was gonna say can we should even just talk about where he's from because we even have skipped over Another infamous country. Where is he from, Joe? Transylvania, Romania. In communist Romania at the time. Very austere, very, very brutal, impoverished life. And yet he just had an incredible imagination to create devices and art. And even he started working very early in a young age in like theater craft, like creating props and costume elements. Like he was world building from a very young age. He just had this incredible passion and desire to create.
    53:39
    He did. And it was funny when passion moved him. It was like sometimes he would return to stuff again and again and again. I actually wondered if you could kind of relate. There's a really funny story about the game Pinbot and how it was... It started in a way that I think maybe no other pinball machine has started. Could you tell kind of the origin story of Pinbot? Yeah. I mean, again, like I said, all of his games had to come from a real place. So in his mind, the real place for him was a poem that he wrote. He really meditated a lot for Pinbot. He meditated about the place of humanity with clearly what at the time even was apparent that like machines and robots because in movies and science fiction these things were obviously becoming very, very popular. I would love to hear Python Angelo's opinion of like AI now and like robotics, what he would think of it now, especially like sex robots and stuff. Yeah, totally. He would love it. Yeah. He would go crazy with the sophistication of sex robots from Japan. But yeah, he would get zero work done. Yeah, but he wrote a poem, like an ode to like humanity's place in the universe and like basically like harnessing the power of the of the stars in order to like fight the dark forces of like mechanization. And like that was like the idea of the concept of pinball. Like it's Really incredible. Like he wrote more even more notoriously the inspiration for Popeye. He wrote like a like a 1820 page like treatment for the origins of a pinball machine. Nobody does that. Nobody asked him to do that. We're figuring out a way to link to so for the article it is this amazing thing and we even had it like in the online edition we had to create like a separate page that you would go to that was basically just the entire breakdown of Popeye because it's it's insane like it's so there's more thought put into that than like probably like the bibles for some TV series that like have gone on for for multiple seasons where you're just like yeah the only thing The only thing I've seen similar to that recently is the Dungeons and Dragons game, where Dwight and... they really thought of an entire backstory with multiple endings. But that's not a common thing. That's a very... that's a really, really specific thing that not a lot of designers do. They just maybe watch a couple of the key, like if it's a TV show, episodes, or listen to the music, if it's a music pin, Adnan Lid преды
    56:58
    In the nitty gritty, he knew how things were built and he knew how to do things properly. And if you couldn't do it right, he would do it himself and like call you out, you know? And say, you're doing a shitty job and I can do it way better. And he did. Like the kids say, you know, he's all about the lore, you know? Absolutely. This was lore building before lore building was a thing. This is franchise building before franchise building was a fucking thing. Well, hey, look at Pinbot again. I mean, there's Pinbot, there's Bride of Pinbot, there's Jackbot, you know, there's all this All of this stuff that he did, and that all stems from his vision, really, right? Yeah, 100%. Which was, pinball's the first pinball game I ever played, so. Awesome. And I don't know that, I don't know that Python definitely wasn't the originator of bringing sex to pinball, but he definitely embraced it. You must say that. I mean, can we talk a little bit about... He was a fucking sex maniac. Let's just put it on the table here. He was an absolute fucking sex maniac, amongst other things. inevitables contains general nachos, The following is a work of fiction. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is coincidental and unintentional.
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    It literally has pop bumper tits that light up, that flash. It doesn't really, at the time, and this is for kids. This is not for creepy middle-aged men to put it in their basements. This was a market at basically a majority, like 90% was for adolescent boys. It's insane. Nate Klinger, Ray Baker, And they're all like so many of them their favorite game is Bride of Pinbot or you know Dolly Parton or you know all these you know other you know at the time could have been were were intended and and received as like you know exploitative misogynistic imagery yeah male gaze yeah for sure male gaze that's filmmaking you know like that like that's been the hundred years of film you know or still continues on uh right and i think um just like any other art form pinball has evolved and and and if anything pinball The pinball reflects the cultural mores, the cultural values, the cultural interests of the time in which it was made. Like back in the 50s and 60s, you know, bowling and card games and things like that were like popular, so that's what pinball reflected, you know? And back in the 80s and 90s, like it was like a lot of sex and you know, there was like a lot of like, you know, very misogynistic exploitative imagery. And he's, again, not to excuse any of it, but he was a product of his time. And we, you know, have moved forward. We've moved past that, I hope, to some degree. I hope not fully past. I mean, the male gaze, surely, but I mean, I like, I kind of like some of it. So, you know, that's just me. And that's what I mean. We're coming out with games that are themed. I'm so happy, you know, with games like Labyrinth, which have a very, very specific female, you know, Jennifer
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    I want to go see the Hitchcock movie or whatever or something else. Right. And so you have to understand that you have to be inclusive in pinball because it's just that's such a huge market. You can't ignore it. And it has so much. If you're going to put a pinball machine in your house, if you don't run it by your partner, you're going to have problems. You know, like you don't have sign off on that at the very least. And you've got other things like Harry Potter, huge amount of female fans for Harry Potter. So that's a no brainer. It's like a win-win for everybody, you know? And even if you don't want to think about it in terms of like, you know, social justice, DIY kind of stuff, even if you're like a hard as like brass tax, money making, capitalistic sense, you just don't want to ignore 50% of your buying market, you know? So we have to move on for these very specific, you know, imagery. Anyhow, we're getting off off the Python stuff. That's my criticism of pinball in general, but... Yeah, that's fair. I will say though, you go from Bride of Pinbot, which is out there and still to this day pretty out there, and then it gets worse. Oh, it gets much worse. It gets crazier. Again, with the guardrails off. 1997's Zingy Bingy on Capcom, which on Pinside is credited as his last game, doesn't actually come out. Joe, can you tell us and the people about the legend of Zingy Bingy and what exactly... Okay, do I have to? Alright. Well, yeah, we got to talk about... So, Zingy Bingy... Pop bumpers. Python... Yeah, I'm talking about breast pop bumpers. They're literally are like actual... I think he got the idea from a beer company that put these like tit mugs... Okay, but what is it, Joe? What is Zingy Bingy? Okay, Zingy Bingy, first of all, again, going back to drinking, Zingy Bingy was Python's like code word for getting totally fucked up, like getting super, super sloshed. Oh, I didn't know that. That was his phrase. Like, let's go get Zingy Bingied. So there was a bar down the street from the Williams place and like, it was called, uh, what was it called? It was called, uh, Porky's? No, it was called, uh, Oinkers. No, it was called Oinkers. It was called Oinkers. I'm thinking of Porky's the movie. Oinkers. And he would come in as, when he was like really pissed off with the company, like, and like they're ripping like stuff out of his game and you're like, fuck it guys, let's go get Zingy Bingied. Let's go to fucking Oinkers, man. And like, let's get Zingy Bingied. And that's what they do. Whether or not they join him, it didn't matter. You just go around and get shit-faced. So that was the phrase, the code word that he used, and I guess that became like the actual name of it. And in Python, to Python, in his Python, world of Pythonia, in his world, he wanted to have an interactive game for couples. It was going to be like an intimate couples game that one side would be the male player and the other side would be the female player. 発 PARATO trabalhos player and they would be represented by this completely nude uh style somewhat stylized versions of adam and eve completely totally and there'd be an apple and a serpent and the ball would represent i guess i i don't know exactly what kind of the act of sex pretty much you know yeah which again uh the the the the correlation between the the playing of pinball and sex Not a new concept. Been around for a very long time. For sure. It is interesting to hear it described as like, basically, it's like a game for Split Flipper in a way. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a Split Flipper game. 100% was designed that way. So we need to, if we ever get a chance, we're going to do a Valentine's Day Split Flipper Zingy Bingy tournament. Oh my god. Think about how awesome that would be. But it is, for anyone wondering, we do have color photos of Zingy Bingy in Nudge Six, so in case you're wondering what that looks like. No description can do it justice. And we must say, like, I mean, yeah, we can describe it a bit, but they are fully nude in there and it integrates pop bumpers basically in the way you think. And also a flipper. In the way that you would think, yes. I think that's an upper playfield flipper for a donger, for sure. Yeah, it's a crazy game. Which supposedly would grow, was supposed to elongate as the game continued on, which is fucking insane. Think about how maybe there would be shots you could only hit when it's at a certain... Right. Extendo flipper. I mean, that game may be ahead of its time, or maybe it's an idea that could be shelved. I don't think you could just have it be like straight hetero normative sex at this point, although maybe it could, who knows? Home brewers out there, give it your best shot. Take notes. Let's see what you got. And there's one prototype of this, right? It exists? It's in Southern California here? I believe there's two. If I'm not mistaken, there might be two. There might be two. I don't know exactly how many. I think they made just two prototypes, but maybe I'm thinking of Pinball Circus. I might be confused. Can I read... Pinball Circus is, I believe, two. There's one here in Vegas, but it's been turned off. But I look at it when it's off sometimes when Ian and I are there getting kicked out of the Pinball Hall of Fame. It was like the last thing I saw. It was a story for another episode, but yes. Yeah, that was the last thing I saw before the light took me. Wait, I wanted to go back to Zingy Bingy for one second because in your research, Joe, you did amazing research. This whole article in general, like hats off to you. It is awesome. It's the best researched thing that we've ever had for sure. But you found out the alternative names that were maybe going to be Zingy Bing because you said Zingy Bing is a code word. Oh yeah, holy shit. They're even worse. There's so much worse. Hold on, hold on. I'll give the people what they want. So here are the alternate names for Zingy Bing that they're going to be. Butt Blaster, Rump Ranger, Come and Go, Sucky Wucky, Balls of Fire, Flipper Fuckball, Licky Dicky, Blow Me, Butt Pirate, Tricky Dicky, and just fuck off. Just fuck off. That was the last one. Yeah, you know, for the kids. For the kids. And some of the modes that were pitched that you found were Double Boner, Super Jackoff, Jagoff, and PMS mode. Oh no. My lord, Python. And like we said, they weren't all... The guardrails were off. Exactly, the guardrails were off, 100%. Holy shit. And so anyway, but yeah. Can you imagine coming from Japan, being the CEO of Capcom, and like cold, walking into the room, I not sure if I the only one who been in the room and being like not only like just like how insane that is to a Western like audience like just to like a completely different culture like especially Japanese culture like an old 60 year old Japanese man walking in the room looking at it not saying a single word shaking his head and walking out and being like what am I what am I doing in this business What am I doing in this business My lord I love Python because he just went for it right There's that great poem by, um, what's his name? Go All the Way by, um, oh shit, can't remember his name. Robert Frost. No, no, it's not Robert Frost. What's his name? The guy who did, um, Barfly. Shel Silverstein? No, also a great poet. Oh, Charles Bukowski? The Bukowski poem, the Bukowski poem, going all, go all the way. And if you're, and he's like, if you're gonna go, you go all the way. Just go. Just, just don't look back, you know? And that's what Python did with every project. He did not give a fuck about critics. He did not care about what the other designers thought about his design. And if anybody was trying to copy him, he'd be like, okay, good luck with that. I'm gonna do it completely differently now because you've stolen my idea. I don't care. Take the idea because it's gonna be shit. So, go for it. Take it. Good luck. Mike Vinicius I guess he is the Bacowski of pinball. I mean, that's pretty on point from all the stories I've heard. Jon Sorrentino It does. Mike Vinicius But, yeah. Jon Sorrentino Oh, go ahead, go ahead. Mike Vinicius I was just saying, like, I, again, I don't identify with every quality of Python Angelo, but I truly admire his, like, unwillingness to self-censor, his unwillingness to hold on to the other people's opinions, to respect and respect others. I mean, he's the best. He's the best. I think he's the best. John Pannin and artist Sofouako
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    System-Mix Publishing Signed Out, Ray Dalio 되� vehicle, I'm sure that rings with you. Joe Kaminkow, Injury Lawyer, Yeah. No, absolutely. I've got so much respect for this guy. And the more that I read about him and the article helped too, Joe. And like you said, Ian, amazing, amazing work in that article. Because a lot of this stuff, you hear bits and pieces. But to actually have that article written so well, thank you for that. Thank you for that. I had to write it. It's been a long, I would say probably, again, I never had a chance to meet Python, which is probably part of why I became so obsessed with learning as much as I could from primary sources. Every time I talk to, I go to Expo, I talk to people who worked with Python or within the circle, I ask them, please, can you just give me one story about Python that you've never told anybody else? Because I just, I feel like I want to get to know this person as much as I can. This was like a mission from God, like how Python would say, you know, the Blues Brothers were on a mission from God. This was like, to quote Philip K. Dick, like an ekegesis of my brain to just get it out. Just the exegesis of my brain to just get it out of my brain so that I have it somewhere else so I don't have to obsess about it as much. And I wanted to get it as right as I possibly could. Again, as someone who never met Python in the first place, I really wanted to make sure that my sources were almost entirely primary sources or directly from himself or people that were within his circle who knew him as much as possible. I didn't want to hear any kind of stories. They're great stories, and there was a bit of conjecture on my part a little bit, but for fun. Of course. You know, I wanted for the facts are the facts and like, you know, I really wanted to be tribute and pay homage and that's why I call it a hajjo, a hajjo, a biog, a hajjo-graphia, a hajjo biography, which means a loving hajjo, hajjo-graphy, I can't even pronounce it now, hajjo-graphy, which means like a loving biography, a biography of passion, a biography of respect, a biography that, you know, it comes from a place of true love. I really hope, my greatest hope with this is that people who did know Python will take a look at it and be like, yeah, you got it right. That's how Python would be proud to be remembered this way, for good or for bad. Again, he was no saint, he was no angel, as we all know. I'll be sure to put a link to the article in the description of the podcast. No, you're going to put a link to Buy Nudge 6. No, we're not taking that article down, friend. You think I'm gonna have that up when I'm selling magazines, you doof? No, of course not. There's gonna be no link, brother. The link is to buy my magazine. Buy, buy, buy. To quote Zach Meny, buy my fucking magazine.
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    No, but truly, Joe, like it comes off that way. It is like, I was telling you, like, this is the most work RECORDSSEARCH Well that wasn't my good work traffic! I had even put in editing wise- RL Chat No no no, it's all good! It wasn't- it's not even content! It was just so much like- someday we are gonna have to do something, we've talked about this before, I think something really that was cool to do would be its own little— booklet or zine or something the directors cut one, cause there's so much even on the cutting room floor uh like stories about this. Some of the trash talk you know that he did, shirtless Next the coworkers are getting so focused on it, when they're calling it a magic line video, And like in that, it's one of the most fun things about Python are the games that almost happened. I wonder like just like one more story for the road. I think this is like, like one of my favorites is so there's a pop star that pretty famously Python did a pitch for it, whether how close it was or not. Could you just kind of talk about about that story a little bit? Yeah, so like in the mid 90s, there was a possibility of a Madonna pinball machine, which again, like, you know, again, like, I think isn't it would have been like an incredible hit. Like Madonna was the top of her game, you know, she was so big at that in that era, too. Absolutely. Like early to mid 90s. Like everything and you know, and even had a resurgence again, in like the early 2000s and everything like she was, she still is, she's still touring, you know, and I think still to this day, Madonna Show your ass. Pinball machine would be incredible. And, you know, like, Python had this pitch that, you know, had all these insane, like, versions, like, different versions, like the Like A Virgin version of Madonna, the Vogue Madonna, and, like, the Sex Book Madonna, of course. Oh, yes. Which, by the way, in the Sex Book, in Madonna's Sex Book, she is masturbating on a pinball machine. I can't remember which one it is. I think it might be a Python game. It might be a Python game, which is, would be amazing. It might be taxi. I'm not sure. Well, we'll do some research on that. Get back to you. We got to do some private research for sure. Not during the work hours, but I'm going to do some research. But yeah, see, like there's some weird connection already between Madonna and pinball. Like pinball is seen, you know, again, like as like a country, a subculture. And I think Madonna would have been an incredible like theme, like to build a world around her. That... and a pinball. And basically he pitched... I mean it wasn't just... he did pitch some concept art and even a concept layout, which we have in there. TOO OF THEM. He pitched two concept layouts. Two different... yes. two different ones, but he also had like... different modes pitched and... some of them are a little bit weird... you're like, again, you're kinda like Python... like Mutant Madonna or something? And so basically, you end that section by, you said, according to James Laughlin, a collector and close friend of Python, Madonna's management outright rejected the proposal and destroyed the original copies of Python's work. Which is, that sucks, you know? I mean, you really, you can't just like mail it back and say no thank you, you have to like fucking burn it, you know? They're like, we, it was such an IP thing that they're like, no, this cannot even exist. This just doesn't get out. No one sees him like this. No one sees him like this. I would have loved to have, if I had any chance to talk to Madonna, I'd love to know if she remembers anything about that, if she was involved whatsoever in like a pinball machine. She probably would have been down for it. Honestly, I think that she would have been into it if it had gotten up to the flagpole to her, but I guess not so much. The layout seems a little bit whack to me for that game, but I do appreciate the art in it for sure. Well, Joe, that was, like I said, you did an awesome job. Thanks. Joe, do you have a favorite Python Angelo game? Either the art or the game? Yeah, Taxi, 100%. Taxi is almost a perfect game. Red Bull, And, You do not want to worry if you lose or lose again. Well, it's Python himself as the model. Originally, it was supposed to be some Iranian character and they're like, don't do that. Please don't put in like Ayatollah Khomeini, especially nowadays. Yeah, topical. Yeah, wow. Holy shit. So, you know, Python, you know, he loved all these evergreen characters like Dracula and Santa Claus and, you know, he put his own pinbot in there and, you know, Gorbachev and Marilyn Monroe, all these kind of very classic figures, iconic figures, right? with the with the with the the ramps the left right ramp that feeds back and forth to the flippers i just love i love chris grant or soundtrack is truly credit about the good i have it as my ringtone as like you know i my my end of work rick ring is like the main theme for taxis so funky It's so great. The call-outs, everything is amazing. And the whole package of everything, when you go through the out lane and you run over a cat, you hear the cat screaming, and there's a flattened cat with a tire track over it, you know, like, it's 100% the overhead Python, you know, omniscient view of the overhead. It's got all these kind of things that... and a great topper, one of the best toppers of all time, the taxi topper. It's fucking awesome. It's got the school bell, it's got the little ringing bell when you get like a special or whatever. It's got so many great mechanical things that are physical and analog, and it's just got a rule set that is just... it's got options. You don't have to like just do one thing a bunch of times. Like there's many different options you can do to get either the regular jackpot or the expressway ramps, you know? Yeah. There's so many great... it's just hard enough, but you have to do the thing, much like a great electromechanical game. You just have to do the thing, and to do the thing is really, really hard because it's a brutal game. Oh yeah. Even if it's a standard kind of like two flipper layout, it's a brutal, brutal game. And I just love it. Everything about it is so insane. It's a completely yellow game, which would be impossible. Like you'd be out of your mind to make a game that's like that yellow in this day and age. Like there's so many things to it that just are of its time, would never be done again, never be attempted, never even a concept of like just a taxi driver. Like that's insane. You know? And I have confirmation, I just looked it up. What is taxi that Madonna is on top of in the sex book? Oh, wow. Good research. I was right. Holy shit. It is taxi. I was able to Google it right now. So there you go. Another point for taxi. There we go. Yeah, there you go. That's another bonus point. Shane, what's your favorite Python game? It's got to be Fishtails. I mean, obviously he didn't do the artwork on it, but it was his concept. I love that game. I also love high speed too. Amazing game. I mean, that's an absolute classic too. I own that game as well. So yeah, those are two of my favorites, but also Pinbot, the first game I ever played, which is a game I don't know if I love as much as I did when I was a kid, but I recognize its greatness. What about you, Ian? I think, this is weird. I like Big Guns. Like Big Guns is a really fun, flowy game. Like I like hitting the ramps. I like that there's the bagatelle thing on the back is fun. And dude, it can't fit in like anybody's house. It's so weird. Nobody's basement, that's for sure. Yeah, it's like way too tall. So I don't know. It's just like a cool game to see out on location. Can you imagine a topper on top of the desk? It's just a bazooka pointing up so it's like 20 feet tall. You can only have it in the middle of a cathedral. McEy and wykor stamped below the star boy as the beginnings of Oops and voy, with the And that was sort of the originator of, of that idea. And I think that one is so, I mean, I love sci-fi, I love that kind of aesthetic. And so it just has like, it's one of those games. I don't even think I saw it as a kid. But I think nowadays it kind of gives me the ideas, like when I was a kid where I'd like look at art and like imagine the thing that was like happening from it, you know? So, um, yeah for me it's probably Big Guns. For some, for some reason I just realized like it really has big guns as art has a real like We're gonna be talking about the DNA with Joust, if you really think about it. It's a mechanized medieval world where these knights are fighting in highly mechanized suits, body suits, power suits or something. It definitely could be in the world of Joust, really, when you think about it. It has the same kind of color scheme of the reds and blues and stuff that Joust had. And it's, I think that's also why it was successful. So visually interesting and weird, but also just like, what's going on here? I want to explore this, you know, and, um, yeah, totally. Yeah. Another Mark Ritchie, you know, a collaboration with Python as well. It feels like it for sure. It kind of feels like it. Did he do, um, like F 14? Did he do F 14? I think that was Steve Ritchie. That was Steve Ritchie. Okay. It kind of, it, it feel, they feel like inverse of each other in a way. Like they're kind of like... They all model them. I think they would say that they have nothing in common in terms of their designs as even though they're brothers. They like... I mean, yeah. I once asked... No, sorry. Anyway, go ahead. No, I was saying, I once asked Steve of like, of like they were doing a panel, like Steve and Mark Ritchie were doing a panel and I asked them like, is there any game that you wished you did your, that your brother did? And both of them were like, nope. And I'm like, okay. Like, all right, cool. Nope. That's like such a Richie answer. I've told you this before. No, no, no. I think my answer, I've told you this before, my ultimate like what I would want to do I think if I did like a big photo spread like interview and a nudge issue would be to get the Ritchie Brothers on a gun range. That's like my ultimate, I think that would be super fun. Or get them to do motocross together or something because they both are big bike guys. They were but I think like probably at this point mobility might be an issue but you know no matter how bad your mobility is in America you can pick up a Glock and oh yeah, oh yeah baby. Oh yeah, baby. God bless America. That's right. Well, with two Canadians on the show. The thing that unites all Americans, firearms. Exactly. Well, you know, those guys are American like me. So anyway. Shane, do you have anything else that you wanted to ask? No, I'm stoked that you're a fellow Torontonian, Joe. Yeah, Scarborough. Yeah, I love it. You've been down to Antisocial, the newer spot down on Bloor? Oh yeah, many times, my buddy. Downtown. 었 significantlyacio m really go to school management history yeah res impact a lot are forced toila go to school since their whole free a knife a lizard you know it there's a but i was with us a spam of course the policeộc American delivery taxespers skies always a little starved for they're greats bosom the calorie F Vaique the word of his a lot of his 열� wide book ran't Grassley earned yes definitely i mean it let especially So, you've been to Cabin Fever? Oh yeah. That's like home base for me as well. That's where we do all of our league nights and all that, all great tournaments. And there's also Maple Pinball in Mississauga. Maple Pinball. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like I always miss out on going to Maple Pinball because they have like a weird like, they have like a league night, right? Yeah, on Friday nights and Saturday. No, it's open to the public but... Only on Friday and Saturday or something, right? Yeah, Friday and Saturday. Well, when I'm back in Toronto, maybe in a couple of weeks for the Junos, I'll hit you up. Oh, nice. Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. Anytime, man. Love it. Thanks, Joe.
    86:42
    So there it is with Joe Cherovino talking all about his, kind of like his pinball idol, I think, Python Angelo. He loves him. He's like a Python Angelo historian. It's pretty cool, you know, that we have like such a, we have a niche of a niche, you know, in our hobby. It was a lot of fun talking to Joe about that. Well, and what's cool is it really shows kind of how big it is too, because Python So, you know, Python was a guy who was, you know, sought after by the general sort of pop art world. And, but we got him, you know, we were lucky enough to get him and he just sort of embodies, like I said, it was a no brainer for us to publish a version of Joe's story because Python is like, that's what we aspire to be, right? David Van Es, Pinball Machine, Knapp Arcade, Rayday Pinball Podcast, Zach Meny, Scott Danesi, Dennis Kriesel, Beetlejuice, David Van Es, Pinball Machine, Ken Kitzrow, Linus K. Sheats Jr., But also, sometimes it was something better than you could ever imagine. So I think Joe did a great job of covering that story. He did. And I'll say this, our reporting on it, which is just Joe's reporting by the way, is already cited on Wikipedia and stuff. So yeah, Joe did an amazing job. Very cool. Yeah, really cool. Yeah, hopefully you guys enjoyed it and also learned some shit about games that you've You've played a million times but you didn't know like all the intricacies and some of the stories and some of the little things that you know when you when you walk up to that taxi or that pin bot or that fishtails you know for the millionth time you you maybe you look at it a little differently after listening to this. Yeah and if you liked what you heard and you want to learn even more I as previously mentioned this is in nudge 6 which you can go find at nudgepinball.com and only now through I of Well of course picked April 20th for a reason, but now through April 20th is the only time when we will sell Nudge LEs, which include a print by Tanner Petsch, which is like his artwork style but based on the Art of Bad Cats by Python. So you get like a screen printed like poster with that. You get a joke book, you get some really cool stickers. But that's only going to be available on NudgePinball.com through 4-20. So we're already like we're already almost through March right now. So that's just basically like three weeks you guys got. So so go pick those up. And if you don't get them, then I never want to hear you complain. So yeah, there you go. And if you want a different kind of le like a pinball machine of some kind, you got to hit up our boy Jeff over at mad pinball or Corbin. They're both there. They're both great. Hit up info at mad pinball.com. Email them. If you want to know what you need, they got them all. They got Pokemon, pros and premiums. They've got Yukon Yetis, you can order if you want one. Oh wow. They carry everything. And they're the best to deal with. They're in the Midwest, so they're pretty central. Get your games a little faster, great service, great people. And tell them we sent you. Get a free T-shirt from us. And get free shipping on any Stern game. There's a lot of good Stern games. So yeah, pick it up info at madpinball.com pin Mad pinball dot com That's our sponsor. That's right. They're the reason we do this. Well, not exactly. They help no fuck that. No offense They help us. I love dude Jeff, you know, I love you, but you're not the reason I fucking do this one bit I do it because I love pinball and I'm a man of the people and I'm sexy as hell There we go. We'll leave it at that Thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you next time. I don't know. We don't have like a cool closing phrase yet. We need to get one. Not yet. Keep on. Well, I mean, I always say no days off. That's our, you know, that's the nudge way. I like that. Yeah. Let's just do that. Yeah. All right, everybody. Yeah. We'll, we won't edit any of this ending. I'm just going to say, and remember. I love it. And remember guys, no days off. Maybe I could have said that cooler. And remember guys, like I said it kinda like low voice, like maybe I was like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And remember guys, there's no days off. See that's kinda cheesy. And remember, no days off. Oh you've got the movie trailer voice, yep. Oh yeah, I can do that. Thanks guys, we'll see you next time.
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